Fwd: Froom Oprah re neo advaitins

[Guest guest]

GuruRatings , " durga " <durgaji108 wrote:

 

 

 

GuruRatings , " Peter " <houzland@> wrote:

>

>

>

> GuruRatings , " Uncle Sophie " <unclesophie@> wrote:

> >

> >

> >

> > GuruRatings , " aoclery " <aoclery@> wrote:

> > >

> > > http://www.oprah.com/community/message/510849

> > >

> >

> > Thanks Tony.

> >

> > That was great.

> >

> > I liked the whole thing esp. these four (I do like lists!!)

> >

> > 1. Discrimination between the real and the unreal.

> > 2. Disinclination to enjoy the fruit's of one's actions.

> > 3. The six virtues of tranquility, self-control, withdrawal, forbearance,

faith, and concentration of the Self.

> > 4. Intense yearning for liberation.

> >

> > And this great quote from Nisargadatta:

> >

> > Nisargadatta: " To go beyond the mind, you must have your mind in

> > perfect order. You cannot leave a mess behind and go beyond. He who

> > seeks Liberation must examine his mind by his own efforts, and once the

> > mind is purified by such introspection Liberation is obtained and

> > appears obvious and natural. "

> >

> > Uncle Sophie

> >

>

> T: Hey Uncle.

> Wow!! I like what you are saying.

>

> However I must confess that when I read that Oprah post I thought:-

>

> Jesus! The person who wrote that has got eyes so focused on the rear vision

mirror (history) that he/she has just run into a whole shit load of sour grapes.

>

> Of course every student of mechanics who uses F=Ma is not Issac Newton,

Lucasian Professor of Mathematics at Cambridge University does that mean she

shouldn't use it, or teach those Laws of Motion that seem to tumble so easily

out of her mouth?

>

> History has moved on since Christ, Gautama, Ramana, Nisargadatta and so forth.

> We now have the Internet! Like it or lump it.

>

> It is folk like that poster who would have folk burnt at the stake if they had

read the Bible in English and not gone to all the trouble of learning it in

Latin.

>

> Okay Okay. We are all equal. Only that poster wants to preserve the notion

that some are far more equal than others. Only those that put their noses to the

grindstone, shoulders to the wheel, sustain years of great hardship, overcome

huge obstacles (and other such Calvinistic nonsenses) are worthy of entering

the Kingdom of Heaven.

>

> Snort!

>

> Ahaa!

> That's better.

>

> L Tboni

 

Hi Tboni,

 

While I agree with you that it seemed to me there

was a certain amount of anger being expressed by

the person who wrote the article, (and which anger

I personally can relate to from my own wanderings

in the neo-advaitic spheres), I also understood

from the article that what the person was trying

to point out, was that 'enlightenment' isn't

quite as easy as the neo-advaitins tell us it is.

 

This message (that it's really easy) derives mostly

from Papaji, IMO. I spent some time with Papaji back

in the early 1990's and that definitely was the message

he was giving out then.

 

Most of us who were there at that time had done lots

and lots of formal practice in various spiritual

traditions (this was before the huge group of

Osho devotees showed up, whose practice might

have been along different lines.)

 

We used to laugh amongst ourselves after satsang

and say, " Yeah right, Papaji says no spiritual practice

is necessary, and yet he himself was an ardent Krishna bhakta,

engaged in hours and hours of devotional practice

for over 40 years prior to his meeting Ramana. "

 

When we pointed out this inconsistency to Papaji,

he would just laugh and say that all of that practice

hadn't been necessary.

 

Well, personally I wonder about that.

 

I think the very positive and helpful point which Papaji made

was that you don't have to do spiritual practice

forever, you shouldn't get 'institutionalized,' and

that there actually is an achievable goal which is possible.

I myself at that point had figured the goal was several hundred lifetimes away

at best.

 

So it was helpful to hear that one can gain freedom

here and now in this very lifetime. OTOH I think

people got a bit unbalanced with that message, and

decided that one never had to do anything ever, and any

practice at all was a complete waste of time.

 

So on the one hand it's good to know that enlightenment

is possible, and that one does not have to be a seeker

forever. And on the other hand it's also good to know

that although there is nothing one can do to be what

one already is, there are things (including spiritual

practice and hearing good teachings) that one can do

to find out who one really is.

 

So, what I got from the article was not something

akin to a Christian right-wing rant, but rather

that the author was trying to point out the problems

inherent in the neo-advaitic approach, and also that practice

is helpful and necessary. Only because of the anger

expressed, the message wasn't quite as clear as it might

have been.

 

This is one thing with an angry messanger, IMO.

The anger can often counteract a useful message.

 

Here's some writing by someone who is not an

angry messanger, and whose message is useful

and balanced, IMO.

 

http://www.nonduality.com/goode5.htm

 

--- End forwarded message ---