Guest guest Posted July 13, 2009 Report Share Posted July 13, 2009 Grace is all there is What better Business do we have Than to Align with IT His GRACE is ever present. It is a constant. It is our ability to draw from that inexhaustible source that is unfortunately a variable ! love ramesh --- On Mon, 7/13/09, born010405 <born010405 wrote: born010405 <born010405 Grace Date: Monday, July 13, 2009, 4:17 PM Dear all,in His teachings is clear to understandthat without His Grace it's imposiblefor the sadhaka to undertake any efforttowards the Self.Can one say that lack of Grace is the inability to endure painand consequently fail in his intend?Yours in Bhagavan,S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2009 Report Share Posted July 13, 2009 Dear Sandosham, An inability to endure severe pain is an affair of the body and is not connected to Grace at all in my opinion. Graceis an aid from the Self sent to guide and assist you on the Path to Self Realisation by leading you in the sadhana you adopt and are comfortable with .. Pain is itensified by resisting any pain which comes. Try welcoming the pain and see how much you can bear as an experiment. This widens your pain threshold. There is nothing wrong in taking medication either. That is physical pain. However ,the psychological pain which comes from one's inadequacy in the quest is Grace ,because it strengthens your resolve to make further effort. Hope this is helpful, others may write All warm regards, Alan--- On Mon, 13/7/09, born010405 <born010405 wrote: born010405 <born010405 Grace Date: Monday, 13 July, 2009, 11:47 AM Dear all,in His teachings is clear to understandthat without His Grace it's imposiblefor the sadhaka to undertake any efforttowards the Self.Can one say that lack of Grace is the inability to endure painand consequently fail in his intend?Yours in Bhagavan,S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2009 Report Share Posted July 13, 2009 Dear Ramesh wonderful how you formulate in short that what IS please continue..... a n d put it in practice moment to moment thats what i try to do.... in Sri Ramana Maharshi michael - ramesh chivukula Monday, July 13, 2009 12:55 PM Re: Grace Grace is all there is What better Business do we have Than to Align with IT His GRACE is ever present. It is a constant. It is our ability to draw from that inexhaustible source that is unfortunately a variable ! love ramesh --- On Mon, 7/13/09, born010405 <born010405 (AT) (DOT) de> wrote: born010405 <born010405 (AT) (DOT) de> Grace Date: Monday, July 13, 2009, 4:17 PM Dear all,in His teachings is clear to understandthat without His Grace it's imposiblefor the sadhaka to undertake any efforttowards the Self.Can one say that lack of Grace is the inability to endure painand consequently fail in his intend?Yours in Bhagavan,S Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.12/2234 - Release 07/12/09 17:56:00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2009 Report Share Posted July 13, 2009 Dear Michael .. Thank you ..sometimes I do feel that what i write childish and puerile ..But what comes , comes right ? That is how it is ..Am glad to be your companion in the twilight of our present lives , but ofourse we must be soulmates of many lifetimes. I do not consciuosly put into practise ..I just let these "feel good vibrations " sink in and allow whatever happens to happen .and to be forgotten the next moment ..No carry forward , no going back , no undo .There is only thin cord connecting my "Self " with my "actions " . That is how I feel ..would like to have reactions from others ... only love ramesh --- On Mon, 7/13/09, Michael Bindel <michael.bindel wrote: Michael Bindel <michael.bindelRe: Grace Date: Monday, July 13, 2009, 8:38 PM Dear Ramesh wonderful how you formulate in short that what IS please continue.... . a n d put it in practice moment to moment thats what i try to do.... in Sri Ramana Maharshi michael - ramesh chivukula Monday, July 13, 2009 12:55 PM Re: Grace Grace is all there is What better Business do we have Than to Align with IT His GRACE is ever present. It is a constant. It is our ability to draw from that inexhaustible source that is unfortunately a variable ! love ramesh --- On Mon, 7/13/09, born010405 <born010405 (AT) (DOT) de> wrote: born010405 <born010405 (AT) (DOT) de> GraceMonday, July 13, 2009, 4:17 PM Dear all,in His teachings is clear to understandthat without His Grace it's imposiblefor the sadhaka to undertake any efforttowards the Self.Can one say that lack of Grace is the inability to endure painand consequently fail in his intend?Yours in Bhagavan,S Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.12/2234 - Release 07/12/09 17:56:00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2009 Report Share Posted July 13, 2009 feel very similar... what comes comes... often it has much use for the reader in ways that can never or never need validation... it's part of staying in honest investigation... , ramesh chivukula <ramesh_chiv wrote: > > Dear Michael .. > > Thank you ..sometimes I do feel that what i write childish and puerile ..But what comes , comes right ? That is how it is ..Am glad to be your companion in the twilight of our present lives , but ofourse we must be soulmates of many lifetimes. > > I do not consciuosly put into practise ..I just let these " feel good vibrations " sink in and allow whatever happens to happen .and to be forgotten the next moment ..No carry forward , no going back , no undo .There is only thin cord connecting my " Self " with my " actions " . That is how I feel ...would like to have reactions from others ... > > only love > > ramesh > > > --- On Mon, 7/13/09, Michael Bindel <michael.bindel wrote: > > > Michael Bindel <michael.bindel > Re: Grace > > Monday, July 13, 2009, 8:38 PM > > > Dear Ramesh > > wonderful how you formulate in short that what IS > > please continue.... . > > > a n d > > put it in practice moment to moment > > thats what i try to do.... > > > in Sri Ramana Maharshi > > michael > > > > - > ramesh chivukula > > Monday, July 13, 2009 12:55 PM > Re: Grace > > Grace is all there is > What better > Business do we have > Than to Align with IT > > His GRACE is ever present. It is a constant. It is our ability to draw from that inexhaustible source that is unfortunately a variable ! > > love > > ramesh > > > > --- On Mon, 7/13/09, born010405 <born010405 (AT) (DOT) de> wrote: > > > born010405 <born010405 (AT) (DOT) de> > Grace > > Monday, July 13, 2009, 4:17 PM > > > > > Dear all, > > in His teachings is clear to understand > that without His Grace it's imposible > for the sadhaka to undertake any effort > towards the Self. > > Can one say that lack of Grace is > the inability to endure pain > and consequently fail in his intend? > > Yours in Bhagavan, > > S > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.12/2234 - Release 07/12/09 17:56:00 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2009 Report Share Posted July 13, 2009 possibly lack of Grace could be just rising interest in relative experiences and interaction creating a sense of separation from the ever present Grace... when there is no desire or interst for anything but to be at home in the heart above and beyond all else... Grace is fully active in recognition... practicing investigation with a link to the result seems to be led by and lead to Grace thank you for sharing , ramesh chivukula <ramesh_chiv wrote: > > Grace is all there is > What better > Business do we have > Than to Align with IT > > His GRACE is ever present. It is a constant. It is our ability to draw from that inexhaustible source that is unfortunately a variable ! > > love > > ramesh > > > > --- On Mon, 7/13/09, born010405 <born010405 wrote: > > > born010405 <born010405 > Grace > > Monday, July 13, 2009, 4:17 PM > > Dear all, > > in His teachings is clear to understand > that without His Grace it's imposible > for the sadhaka to undertake any effort > towards the Self. > > Can one say that lack of Grace is > the inability to endure pain > and consequently fail in his intend? > > Yours in Bhagavan, > > S > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2009 Report Share Posted July 13, 2009 , > - > ramesh chivukula > Grace is all there is > > What better > > Business do we have > > Than to Align with IT > > His GRACE is ever present. It is a constant. It is our ability to draw from that inexhaustible source that is unfortunately a variable ! > > love > > ramesh You seem to be saying there is the duality of Him and us. And we separate creatures need to strategize to catch hold of His " variable " force of Grace to align with It. Jesus compared grace to the Sun, which shines on both the good and bad. Or to rain which rains on good and bad alike. Another way of looking at this: There is only one. Everything is That. " Everything that is is Consciousness " , says the Yoga Vasistha. Nothing needs doing. In fact, nothing ever happens. Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2009 Report Share Posted July 13, 2009 , " rafaelstoneman " <rafaelstoneman wrote: > > feel very similar... what comes comes... often it has much use for the reader in ways that can never or never need validation... it's part of staying in honest investigation... > hahahaha my friends, the poets.... the poet is like a flute shaping the breath into a melody true poet's life is shaped into a breath of the divine. . . hollow from self touched by intuition life breath becomes a tune in the symphony of being * * * * * * * * * ps: when you read/hear a poem and it touches your heart it is because you yourself are the endless poem of life @}->,->'-- yosy > , ramesh chivukula <ramesh_chiv@> wrote: > > > > Dear Michael .. > > > > Thank you ..sometimes I do feel that what i write childish and puerile ..But what comes , comes right ? That is how it is ..Am glad to be your companion in the twilight of our present lives , but ofourse we must be soulmates of many lifetimes. > > > > I do not consciuosly put into practise ..I just let these " feel good vibrations " sink in and allow whatever happens to happen .and to be forgotten the next moment ..No carry forward , no going back , no undo .There is only thin cord connecting my " Self " with my " actions " . That is how I feel ...would like to have reactions from others ... > > > > only love > > > > ramesh > > <courtesy snip> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 Dear Richard ... I for one have to content with the feeling of duality until the oneness becomes complete and permanent. All love ramesh --- On Tue, 7/14/09, Richard <richarkar wrote: Richard <richarkar Re: Grace Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 1:01 AM , > - > ramesh chivukula > Grace is all there is > > What better > > Business do we have > > Than to Align with IT> > His GRACE is ever present. It is a constant. It is our ability to draw from that inexhaustible source that is unfortunately a variable !> > love> > rameshYou seem to be saying there is the duality of Him and us. And we separate creatures need to strategize to catch hold of His "variable" force of Grace to align with It.Jesus compared grace to the Sun, which shines on both the good and bad. Or to rain which rains on good and bad alike.Another way of looking at this: There is only one. Everything is That. "Everything that is is Consciousness" , says the Yoga Vasistha. Nothing needs doing. In fact, nothing ever happens.Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 Yosy always touches my heart ! love ramesh --- On Tue, 7/14/09, yosyx <yosyflug wrote: yosyx <yosyflugRe: Grace Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 4:18 AM , "rafaelstoneman" <rafaelstoneman@ ...> wrote:>> feel very similar... what comes comes... often it has much use for the reader in ways that can never or never need validation.. . it's part of staying in honest investigation. ..>hahahaha my friends, the poets....the poet islike a fluteshaping the breathinto a melodytrue poet's lifeis shapedinto a breathof the divine. . .hollow from selftouched by intuitionlife breath becomes a tunein the symphony of being* * * * * * * * * ps: when you read/hear a poemand it touches your heartit is becauseyou yourselfare the endlesspoemof life @}->,->'--yosy> , ramesh chivukula <ramesh_chiv@ > wrote:> >> > Dear Michael ..> > > > Thank you ..sometimes I do feel that what i write childish and puerile ..But what comes , comes right ? That is how it is ..Am glad to be your companion in the twilight of our present lives , but ofourse we must be soulmates of many lifetimes.> > > > I do not consciuosly put into practise ..I just let these "feel good vibrations " sink in and allow whatever happens to happen .and to be forgotten the next moment ..No carry forward , no going back , no undo .There is only thin cord connecting my "Self " with my "actions " . That is how I feel ..would like to have reactions from others ....> > > > only love> > > > ramesh> > <courtesy snip> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2009 Report Share Posted July 14, 2009 , ramesh chivukula <ramesh_chiv wrote: > > Dear Richard ... > > I for one have to content with the feeling of duality until the oneness becomes complete and permanent. > > All love > > ramesh > Love to you too Ramesh. Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2009 Report Share Posted July 15, 2009 , Alan Jacobs <alanadamsjacobs wrote: > > Dear Sandosham, > > An inability to endure severe pain is an affair of the body and is not connected to Grace at all in my opinion. Graceis an aid from the Self sent to guide and assist you on the Path to Self Realisation by leading you in the sadhana you adopt and are comfortable with > .. Pain is itensified by resisting any pain which comes. Try welcoming the pain and see how much you can bear as an experiment. This widens your pain threshold. There is nothing wrong in taking medication either. That is physical pain. However ,the psychological pain which comes from one's inadequacy in the quest is Grace ,because it strengthens your resolve to make further effort. > > Hope this is helpful, others may write > > All warm regards, > > Alan > > --- On Mon, 13/7/09, born010405 <born010405 wrote: > > > born010405 <born010405 > Grace > > Monday, 13 July, 2009, 11:47 AM > > Dear all, > > in His teachings is clear to understand > that without His Grace it's imposible > for the sadhaka to undertake any effort > towards the Self. > > Can one say that lack of Grace is > the inability to endure pain > and consequently fail in his intend? > > Yours in Bhagavan, > > S > Namaste dear Alan, what i was refering to, was the psycological pain one resists as a result of the lack of Grace. So the question is,can one say that it's lack of Grace to constantly resist paine? Warmest regards, Sandosham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2009 Report Share Posted July 15, 2009 > So the question is,can one say that it's > lack of Grace to constantly resist paine? Resisting pain is in many ways " natural " . It is " natural " because it is our conditioning since childhood. To be comfortable is the priority over bearing pain. Developing anxiety toward pain then becomes a habit. It is not lack of Grace that resists pain. One might say Grace is always there, however, if much blocks perception of it, then there is a " wall " between it and the self in pain. But to not resist pain might mean that one has to face utter aloneness, and aloneness is not confortable. So, in those times when there is strength to not resist pain, and aloneness is frightening, there is the support, even theoretical knowledge if one wishes to see it that way, of Grace, His eyes, surrender. In accepting that Grace and then being alone with that Grace, takes one over teh hurdle of being alone to being one with. But one might look around and say everything is fragmented, there is no one-ness, in fact there is constant squabbling and manyness. Then is required Grace again to see that behind the manyness fragmentedness of the outside is oneness. Why is it that the manyness fragmentedness is so " attacking " , so powerful? Perhaps because it reflects that same fragmentedness within - caused by all the habitual life one has led. It is easiest for me to realise that Grace is always there, and pain is a choice and most times a very difficult choice. Thanks Vrunda , " born010405 " <born010405 wrote: > > > > > An inability to endure severe pain is an affair of the body and is not connected to Grace at all in my opinion. Graceis an aid from the Self sent to guide and assist you on the Path to Self Realisation by leading you in the sadhana you adopt and are comfortable with > > .. Pain is itensified by resisting any pain which comes. Try welcoming the pain and see how much you can bear as an experiment. This widens your pain threshold. There is nothing wrong in taking medication either. That is physical pain. However ,the psychological pain which comes from one's inadequacy in the quest is Grace ,because it strengthens your resolve to make further effort. > > > > Hope this is helpful, others may write > > > > All warm regards, > > > > Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2009 Report Share Posted July 15, 2009 ---- Original message ---- >Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 16:55:16 -0000 > " PV " <yvpy >Subject: Re: Grace >To: > > > So the question is,can one say that it's > > lack of Grace to constantly resist paine? > > Resisting pain is in many ways " natural " . It is > " natural " because it is our conditioning since > childhood. To be comfortable is the priority over > bearing pain. Developing anxiety toward pain then > becomes a habit. It is not lack of Grace that > resists pain. One might say Grace is always there, > however, if much blocks perception of it, then there > is a " wall " between it and the self in pain. > > But to not resist pain might mean that one has to > face utter aloneness, and aloneness is not > confortable. So, in those times when there is > strength to not resist pain, and aloneness is > frightening, there is the support, even theoretical > knowledge if one wishes to see it that way, of > Grace, His eyes, surrender. In accepting that Grace > and then being alone with that Grace, takes one over > teh hurdle of being alone to being one with. But one > might look around and say everything is fragmented, > there is no one-ness, in fact there is constant > squabbling and manyness. Then is required Grace > again to see that behind the manyness fragmentedness > of the outside is oneness. Why is it that the > manyness fragmentedness is so " attacking " , so > powerful? Perhaps because it reflects that same > fragmentedness within - caused by all the habitual > life one has led. > > It is easiest for me to realise that Grace is always > there, and pain is a choice and most times a very > difficult choice. > > Thanks > Vrunda actually, pain is inevitable. suffering is a choice... pain and pleasure are strains in the tightly intertwined rope making up this world of opposites, no one without the other. a rope that binds the illusion identity, (whose true nature remains ever free) to the addictive excitement game of loss and gain, attraction, rejection, joy of winning, and pain. in darkness, the light of truth hidden by storm clouds of ignorant fears and desires this rope appears to be a scary snake, frightening to the core the gullible, who identify self with a form and a name. but when understanding dawns illuminating the heart with grace all distinctions and separations cease. the rope of illusion is burnt to ashes. the obvious is always self evident how can the boundless be bound? timeless truth was never lost. so how can it ever be found? respectfully, yosy > > , " born010405 " > <born010405 wrote: > > > > > > > > An inability to endure severe pain is an affair > of the body and is not connected to Grace at all in > my opinion. Graceis an aid from the Self sent to > guide and assist you on the Path to Self Realisation > by leading you in the sadhana you adopt and are > comfortable with > > > .. Pain is itensified by resisting any pain > which comes. Try welcoming the pain and see how much > you can bear as an experiment. This widens your pain > threshold. There is nothing wrong in taking > medication either. That is physical pain. However > ,the psychological pain which comes from one's > inadequacy in the quest is Grace ,because it > strengthens your resolve to make further effort. > > > > > > Hope this is helpful, others may write > > > > > > All warm regards, > > > > > > Alan > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2009 Report Share Posted July 15, 2009 So beautiful Yosy!!! In the game of opposites, the effort to get to the opposite side of pain is sometimes a struggle. I wish sometimes that everyone (me) had the silent lone retreats that Ramana loved. Thanks Vrunda > actually, pain is inevitable. > suffering is a choice... > > > pain and pleasure are strains > in the tightly intertwined rope > making up this world of opposites, > no one without the other. > a rope that binds the illusion identity, > (whose true nature remains ever free) > to the addictive excitement game > of loss and gain, > attraction, rejection, joy of winning, > and pain. > > in darkness, the light of truth hidden > by storm clouds of ignorant fears and desires > this rope appears to be a scary snake, > frightening to the core the gullible, > who identify self with a form and a name. > but when understanding dawns > illuminating the heart with grace > all distinctions and separations cease. > the rope of illusion is burnt to ashes. > the obvious is always self evident > how can the boundless be bound? > timeless truth was never lost. so > how can it ever be found? > > > respectfully, > yosy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 15, 2009 Report Share Posted July 15, 2009 Dear Sandosham, Grace is always there, but we occlude it through our vasanas. This pain which one feels on not experiencing grace, is also grace, because it spurs one to make greater effort in removing the vasanas through the sadhana of Self Enquiry and Surrender. With love, In His Grace, Alan--- On Wed, 15/7/09, born010405 <born010405 wrote: born010405 <born010405 Re: Grace Date: Wednesday, 15 July, 2009, 2:25 PM , Alan Jacobs <alanadamsjacobs@ ...> wrote:>> Dear Sandosham,> > An inability to endure severe pain is an affair of the body and is not connected to Grace at all in my opinion. Graceis an aid from the Self sent to guide and assist you on the Path to Self Realisation by leading you in the sadhana you adopt and are comfortable with> .. Pain is itensified by resisting any pain which comes. Try welcoming the pain and see how much you can bear as an experiment. This widens your pain threshold. There is nothing wrong in taking medication either. That is physical pain. However ,the psychological pain which comes from one's inadequacy in the quest is Grace ,because it strengthens your resolve to make further effort.> > Hope this is helpful, others may write> > All warm regards,> > Alan> > --- On Mon, 13/7/09, born010405 <born010405@ ...> wrote:> > > born010405 <born010405@ ...>> Grace> > Monday, 13 July, 2009, 11:47 AM> > > > > > > > > Dear all,> > in His teachings is clear to understand> that without His Grace it's imposible> for the sadhaka to undertake any effort> towards the Self.> > Can one say that lack of Grace is > the inability to endure pain> and consequently fail in his intend?> > Yours in Bhagavan,> > S>Namaste dear Alan,what i was refering to, was the psycologicalpain one resists as a result of the lackof Grace.So the question is,can one say that it'slack of Grace to constantly resist paine?Warmest regards,Sandosham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 Also, when the tough patch is past, one realizes that Grace/God/Him carried one through it. Grace, a shining light, clouded only by shattered mind. Thankyou Sandosham so much for such a beautiful question, and all the beautiful answers of everyone. Isn't it grace? Thanks Vrunda , Yosy Flug <yosyflug wrote: > > Alan Jacobs wrote: > > > > > > Dear Sandosham, > > > > Grace is always there, but we occlude it through our vasanas. This > > pain which one feels on not experiencing grace, is also grace, because > > it spurs one to make greater effort in removing the vasanas through > > the sadhana of Self Enquiry and Surrender. > > > > With love, > > > > In His Grace, > > > > Alan > > > > > > > > > grace and kala bring the union > here > the path of bhakti > and the path of jnana > merge > like jamuna and ganga mai > and sarasvathi > blend > wholly absorbed > in the ocean > of > all sustaining > all pervading > love! > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 Alan Jacobs wrote: > > > Dear Sandosham, > > Grace is always there, but we occlude it through our vasanas. This > pain which one feels on not experiencing grace, is also grace, because > it spurs one to make greater effort in removing the vasanas through > the sadhana of Self Enquiry and Surrender. > > With love, > > In His Grace, > > Alan > grace and kala bring the union here the path of bhakti and the path of jnana merge like jamuna and ganga mai and sarasvathi blend wholly absorbed in the ocean of all sustaining all pervading love! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 GRACE gives us strenght to endure pain and prevent it from causing mental agony.. As Alan once put it very aptly ..With HIS grace ,all suffering becomes benign love ramesh --- On Wed, 7/15/09, PV <yvpy wrote: PV <yvpy Re: Grace Date: Wednesday, July 15, 2009, 10:25 PM > So the question is,can one say that it's> lack of Grace to constantly resist paine?Resisting pain is in many ways "natural". It is "natural" because it is our conditioning since childhood. To be comfortable is the priority over bearing pain. Developing anxiety toward pain then becomes a habit. It is not lack of Grace that resists pain. One might say Grace is always there, however, if much blocks perception of it, then there is a "wall" between it and the self in pain. But to not resist pain might mean that one has to face utter aloneness, and aloneness is not confortable. So, in those times when there is strength to not resist pain, and aloneness is frightening, there is the support, even theoretical knowledge if one wishes to see it that way, of Grace, His eyes, surrender. In accepting that Grace and then being alone with that Grace, takes one over teh hurdle of being alone to being one with. But one might look around and say everything is fragmented, there is no one-ness, in fact there is constant squabbling and manyness. Then is required Grace again to see that behind the manyness fragmentedness of the outside is oneness. Why is it that the manyness fragmentedness is so "attacking", so powerful? Perhaps because it reflects that same fragmentedness within - caused by all the habitual life one has led.It is easiest for me to realise that Grace is always there, and pain is a choice and most times a very difficult choice.ThanksVrunda , "born010405" <born010405@ ...> wrote:>> > > > An inability to endure severe pain is an affair of the body and is not connected to Grace at all in my opinion. Graceis an aid from the Self sent to guide and assist you on the Path to Self Realisation by leading you in the sadhana you adopt and are comfortable with> > .. Pain is itensified by resisting any pain which comes. Try welcoming the pain and see how much you can bear as an experiment. This widens your pain threshold. There is nothing wrong in taking medication either. That is physical pain. However ,the psychological pain which comes from one's inadequacy in the quest is Grace ,because it strengthens your resolve to make further effort.> > > > Hope this is helpful, others may write> > > > All warm regards,> > > > Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 Dear Yosy,Love and Love alone....Excellently explained in a poetic form. My salutations to you. Pain is also His grace. When we are accepting His pleasures happily, why we hesitate His pain also? We should also be ready to accept His pain in the same mood. That is Yoga or Samatwa, as Lord Krishna said in Srimad Bhagavad Gita ... Samatwam Yoga Uchchate ... Balance is Yoga. Balance of mind is Yoga. Balance in life is Yoga. In His service, both pain and pleasure are one and the same. That is life.Love and Love alone....P. Gopi Krishna:) actually, pain is inevitable. suffering is a choice... pain and pleasure are strains in the tightly intertwined rope making up this world of opposites, no one without the other. a rope that binds the illusion identity, (whose true nature remains ever free) to the addictive excitement game of loss and gain, attraction, rejection, joy of winning, and pain. in darkness, the light of truth hidden by storm clouds of ignorant fears and desires this rope appears to be a scary snake, frightening to the core the gullible, who identify self with a form and a name. but when understanding dawns illuminating the heart with grace all distinctions and separations cease. the rope of illusion is burnt to ashes. the obvious is always self evident how can the boundless be bound? timeless truth was never lost. so how can it ever be found? respectfully, yosy Looking for local information? Find it on Local Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 , ramesh chivukula <ramesh_chiv wrote: > > GRACE gives us strenght to endure pain and prevent it from causing mental agony.. > As Alan once put it very aptly ..With HIS grace ,all suffering becomes benign > > love > > ramesh > > > --- On Wed, 7/15/09, PV <yvpy wrote: > > > PV <yvpy > Re: Grace > > Wednesday, July 15, 2009, 10:25 PM > > > So the question is,can one say that it's > > lack of Grace to constantly resist paine? > > Resisting pain is in many ways " natural " . It is " natural " because it is our conditioning since childhood. To be comfortable is the priority over bearing pain. Developing anxiety toward pain then becomes a habit. It is not lack of Grace that resists pain. One might say Grace is always there, however, if much blocks perception of it, then there is a " wall " between it and the self in pain. > > But to not resist pain might mean that one has to face utter aloneness, and aloneness is not confortable. So, in those times when there is strength to not resist pain, and aloneness is frightening, there is the support, even theoretical knowledge if one wishes to see it that way, of Grace, His eyes, surrender. In accepting that Grace and then being alone with that Grace, takes one over teh hurdle of being alone to being one with. But one might look around and say everything is fragmented, there is no one-ness, in fact there is constant squabbling and manyness. Then is required Grace again to see that behind the manyness fragmentedness of the outside is oneness. Why is it that the manyness fragmentedness is so " attacking " , so powerful? Perhaps because it reflects that same fragmentedness within - caused by all the habitual life one has led. > > It is easiest for me to realise that Grace is always there, and pain is a choice and most times a very difficult choice. > > Thanks > Vrunda > > , " born010405 " <born010405@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > > > An inability to endure severe pain is an affair of the body and is not connected to Grace at all in my opinion. Graceis an aid from the Self sent to guide and assist you on the Path to Self Realisation by leading you in the sadhana you adopt and are comfortable with > > > .. Pain is itensified by resisting any pain which comes. Try welcoming the pain and see how much you can bear as an experiment. This widens your pain threshold. There is nothing wrong in taking medication either. That is physical pain. However ,the psychological pain which comes from one's inadequacy in the quest is Grace ,because it strengthens your resolve to make further effort. > > > > > > Hope this is helpful, others may write > > > > > > All warm regards, > > > > > > Alan Dear Friends in Sangha, my silent Gratitude for your clarifying responds! In His Grace, Sandosham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 , Gopi Krishna <p_gopi_krishna wrote: > > Dear Yosy, > > Love and Love alone.... > > Excellently explained in a poetic form. My salutations to you. Pain is also His grace. When we are accepting His pleasures happily, why we hesitate His pain also? We should also be ready to accept His pain in the same mood. That is Yoga or Samatwa, as Lord Krishna said in Srimad Bhagavad Gita ... Samatwam Yoga Uchchate ... Balance is Yoga. Balance of mind is Yoga. Balance in life is Yoga. In His service, both pain and pleasure are one and the same. That is life. > > Love and Love alone.... > > P. Gopi Krishna > Dear Gopi, that arrow of yours heated the spot!! Excellently said,thanks. In Bhagavan, Sandosham > actually, pain is inevitable. > > suffering is a choice... > > > > pain and pleasure are strains > > in the tightly intertwined rope > > making up this world of opposites, > > no one without the other. > > a rope that binds the illusion identity, > > (whose true nature remains ever free) > > to the addictive excitement game > > of loss and gain, > > attraction, rejection, joy of winning, > > and pain. > > > > in darkness, the light of truth hidden > > by storm clouds of ignorant fears and desires > > this rope appears to be a scary snake, > > frightening to the core the gullible, > > who identify self with a form and a name. > > but when understanding dawns > > illuminating the heart with grace > > all distinctions and separations cease. > > the rope of illusion is burnt to ashes. > > the obvious is always self evident > > how can the boundless be bound? > > timeless truth was never lost. so > > how can it ever be found? > > > > respectfully, > > yosy > > > > > > recommends that you upgrade to the new and safer Internet Explorer 8. http://downloads./in/internetexplorer/ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2009 Report Share Posted July 18, 2009 Yes , Alan ..we need to reinforce this feeling in us very deeply indeed... love ramesh --- On Sat, 7/18/09, Alan Jacobs <alanadamsjacobs wrote: Alan Jacobs <alanadamsjacobs GRACE Date: Saturday, July 18, 2009, 7:23 PM Grace is in the beginning, middle and end. Grace is the Self. Because of the false identification of the Self with the body the Guru is considered to be with body. But from the Guru’s outlook the Guru is only the Self. The Self is one only. He tells that the Self alone is. Is not then the Self your Guru? Where else will Grace come from? It is from the Self alone. Manifestation of the Self is a manifestation of Grace and vice versa. All these doubts arise because of the wrong outlook and consequent expectation of things externalto oneself. Nothing is external to the Self.From Talks 157 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2009 Report Share Posted July 18, 2009 Dear Friends in Bhagavan, How wonderful to be in your company; inexpressible in words. Welcome to the devotees, those who are new and those who have been here a long time. Thank you. With much gratitude to all of you in the sangha. Yours in Bhagavan Namaste and love to all Lots of love Harsha On Behalf Of Alan Jacobs Saturday, July 18, 2009 9:54 AM GRACE Grace is in the beginning, middle and end. Grace is the Self. Because of the false identification of the Self with the body the Guru is considered to be with body. But from the Guru’s outlook the Guru is only the Self. The Self is one only. He tells that the Self alone is. Is not then the Self your Guru? Where else will Grace come from? It is from the Self alone. Manifestation of the Self is a manifestation of Grace and vice versa. All these doubts arise because of the wrong outlook and consequent expectation of things externalto oneself. Nothing is external to the Self. From Talks 157 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2009 Report Share Posted July 18, 2009 Yes. Thank you. Very True and useful for me in this moment. ramesh chivukula <ramesh_chiv Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2009 7:01:24 AMRe: GRACE Yes , Alan ..we need to reinforce this feeling in us very deeply indeed... love ramesh --- On Sat, 7/18/09, Alan Jacobs <alanadamsjacobs@ .co. uk> wrote: Alan Jacobs <alanadamsjacobs@ .co. uk> GRACESaturday, July 18, 2009, 7:23 PM Grace is in the beginning, middle and end. Grace is the Self. Because of the false identification of the Self with the body the Guru is considered to be with body. But from the Guru’s outlook the Guru is only the Self. The Self is one only. He tells that the Self alone is. Is not then the Self your Guru? Where else will Grace come from? It is from the Self alone. Manifestation of the Self is a manifestation of Grace and vice versa. All these doubts arise because of the wrong outlook and consequent expectation of things externalto oneself. Nothing is external to the Self.From Talks 157 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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