Beyond Jnana and Bhakti

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GuruRatings , ecirada <ecirada wrote:

>

> On 2/18/2010 11:53 AM, Melody wrote:

> >

> >>> I would use the word Love to represent

> >>> Bhakti.

> >>>

> >>>

> >> A bhakta worships, no matter the terminology used.

> >>

> >

> >

> > No matter the path, every seeker worships

> > initially.

> >

> That type of seeker rarely is successful.

> Some seekers ponder / sort out / verify

> and live up to the results of that.

> > Try to destroy the altar of a meditator,

> > or her prayer beads,

> >

> > or urinate on the favored sacred text of a jnana,

> >

> > and you'll see plenty evidence of their " worship " ,

> >

> > no matter how dedicated initially.

> >

> >

> > I remember well, years ago, the outrage and

> > even hatred exressed to Sandeep when he would

> > act 'irreverantly' in lists of various

> > " traditionalist " practitioners.

> >

> > It wasn't pretty.

> >

> No worship without attachment. As attachments are

> supposed to be dissolved in the course of events, why

> replace existing ones with an even stronger type?

> >

> >

> >>> And Love can be everybit the means

> >>> of dissolving the sense of " I " as

> >>> Dedication can be.

> >>>

> >>>

> >> It didn't work out quite well for Ramakrishna despite

> >> the efforts. It only works when realizing, nothing can

> >> satisfy forever. This of course is painful too but those

> >> able to bear it might discover something else.

> >>

> >

> > I don't know the story of Ramakrishna.

> >

> > I do know the story of Rumi, however,

> >

> > and had he not come to that very realization during his

> > brokenheartedness over Sham's disappearance, we would

> > likely never had heard any of his beautiful poetry.

> >

> Sadhana proper is to realize the transient nature

> of all appearances and to live up to that. Without it,

> there wouldn't be works like the Kathopanishad.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >> Quite a few times I made the distinction between

> >> suspension and dissolution. After suspension, the

> >> sense of " I " pops up again and again. Those with

> >> a practice of dedication hardly notice because

> >> the fruits of action are renounced (instead of being

> >> offered to the subject of worship).

> >>

> >

> > It can be said that with the practitioners of

> > dedication [as you describe them] the

> > renouncing of fruits of action are initially a form

> > of worship in itself!

> >

> Renouncing the fruits of action becomes a habit,

> easy because not clinging to the results of action

> makes a lot of sense.

> > It's not all that different from being devoted

> > to a guru, or devoted to a sacred text.

> >

> > Not in the beginning.

> >

> > There's a process of idealization and attraction

> > which draws a practioner - of any path -

> >

> > and which arises out of a univeral sense of " if only...... " .

> >

> > What else would cause someone to renounce all

> > earthly pleasures and conveniences?

> >

> > Melody

> >

> Pleasure and pain are 2 sides of the same coin, one can't be

> without the other. Both are transient but only when loved ones

> suddenly disappear / die, some start to ponder over the issue,

> searching if there could be an alternative.

>

> Jan

 

Namaste All,

 

I would regard myself as more or less intellectually realised....but that

doesn't mean much...just means I don't have to read anymore..However one thing

which I have come back to because of this intellectual realisation is that a

Mukta Guru in body is absolutely necessary.....except if you are Ramana

Maharshi....One cannot cross the river without diksha and saktipat which can

only be given by a Mukta all else is just marking time..........The physical

guru doesn't have to be present.....he/she can be at a distance as they are the

inner guru too...In fact there is only the inner guru the mukta guru is an

outward manifestation of the same.........This is another reason why so few are

realised....there are only a handful of muktas on the planet............Tony