Bhagavan the Atiasrami - 2

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Question: To which asrama does Bhagavan belong?

Bhagavan: Atiasrama.

Q: What is it?

B: It is beyond the four commonly known asramas.

Q: Is it sastraic?

B: Yes, it is mentioned in the sastras.

This account in Talks was written down from memory by Munagala Venkataramiah, its compiler. A court stenographer also took down everything that Bhagavan said verbatim and the ashram's lawyer, T. P. Ramachandra Iyer, later made a copy of these answers for the ashram records. This copy, which has been preserved by the President of Sri Ramanasramam, contains many interesting additional remarks that are not to be found in the Talks account.

Bhagavan began his testimony by talking about his early life and how he came to Tiruvannamalai. Since he had already seen Perumal Swami's complaint, Bhagavan knew that the court would want him to state which asrama he belonged to. He therefore began his remarks in the following way:

 

I am of brahmin birth. When I came to this place I was seventeen years old. My upanayana [the brahmin thread ceremony] had taken place even before I came here. When I came to this place I had been living among people who were in the grihastha asrama. Within an hour of coming to this town I threw away my sacred thread and then had my head shaved. I arrived here with approximately three rupees. I threw away that money also.

 

In throwing away his thread he renounced his caste and in shaving his head he indicated that he had embarked on a life of physical renunciation without taking the formal step of adopting sannyasa.

After giving a few more details about his early life, he gave three answers that were partially recorded in the dialogue given above:

 

 

I remain in atiasrama, that is, not attached to anything in life.

 

Atiasrama is in the sastras.

 

I do not know of anyone else who is remaining in this asrama.

These answers were given on 15th November, 1936. A few weeks later, on 5th December, Perumal Swami's lawyer continued his cross-examination. This is the version recorded in Talks:

 

Question: You spoke of atiasrama the other day. Is there authority for it? Is it mentioned anywhere?

Bhagavan: Yes, in the Upanishads, the Suta Samhita [skanda Purana], Bhagavata, Bharata and other works.

Q: Are there any restrictions or disciplines for that state?

B: There are characteristics of it mentioned.

Q: There are Gurus for each asrama. Is there a Guru for atiasrama?

B: Yes.

Q: But you do not admit a Guru.

B: There is a Guru for everyone. I admit a Guru for me also.

Q: Who is your Guru?

B: The Self.

Q: For whom?

B: For myself. The Guru may be internal or external. He may reveal himself internally or externally.

Q: Can the atiasrami own property?

B: There is no restriction for them. They may do what they please. Suka is said to have married and begotten children also.

Q: The atiasrami is like a householder in that case.

B: I have already said that he is above the four recognised asramas.

Q: If they can marry, own property etc., they are only grihasthas.

B: That may be your view.

Q: Can they own property and convey the same to others?

B: They may or may not. It depends on their prarabdha [destiny].

Q: Is there any karma for them?

B: Their conduct is not regulated according to rules or codes.

 

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