Talk 609 - #1

[Guest guest]

Talk 609.

Lady Bateman and others came to the hall at about 3-30 p.m. In a few

minutes she asked in writing if one is nearer to Pure Consciousness

in deep sleep than in the waking state.

 

M.: The sleep, dream and waking states are mere phenomena

appearing on the Self which is itself stationary and also a state of

simple awareness. Can anyone remain away from the Self at any

moment? This question can arise only if that were possible.

 

D.: Is it not often said that one is nearer Pure Consciousness in deep

slumber than in the waking state?

 

M.: The question may as well be: Am I nearer to myself in my sleep

than in my waking state?

For the Self is Pure Consciousness. No one can ever be away from

the Self. The question is possible only if there is duality. But there

is no duality in the state of Pure Consciousness.

The same person sleeps, dreams and wakes up. The waking state is

considered to be full of beautiful and interesting things. The absence

of such experiences makes one say that the sleep state is dull. Before

we proceed further let us make this point clear. Do you not admit

that you exist in your sleep?

D.: Yes, I do.

M.: You are the same person that is now awake. Is it not so?

D.: Yes.

M.: So there is a continuity in the sleep and the waking states. What

is that continuity? It is only the state of Pure Being.

There is a difference in the two states. What is that difference? The

incidents, namely, the body, the world and the objects appear in

the waking state but they disappear in sleep.

D.: But I am not aware in my sleep.

M.: True, there is no awareness of the body or of the world. But you

must exist in your sleep in order to say now “I was not aware in my

sleep”. Who says so now? It is the wakeful person. The sleeper cannot

say so. That is to say, the individual who is now identifying the Self

with the body says that such awareness did not exist in sleep.

Because you identify yourself with the body, you see the world

around you and say that the waking state is filled with beautiful and

interesting things. The sleep state appears dull because you were

not there as an individual and therefore these things were not. But

what is the fact? There is the continuity of Being in all the three

states, but no continuity of the individual and the objects.

D.: Yes.

M.: That which is continuous is also enduring, i.e. permanent. That

which is discontinuous is transitory.

D.: Yes.

M.: Therefore the state of Being is permanent and the body and the

world are not. They are fleeting phenomena passing on the screen

of Being-Consciousness which is eternal and stationary.

D.: Relatively speaking, is not the sleep state nearer to Pure

Consciousness than the waking state?

M.: Yes, in this sense: When passing from sleep to waking the ‘I’

thought must start; the mind comes into play; thoughts arise;

and then the functions of the body come into operation; all these

together make us say that we are awake. The absence of all this

evolution is the characteristic of sleep and therefore it is nearer to

Pure Consciousness than the waking state.

 

But one should not therefore desire to be always in sleep. In the

first place it is impossible, for it will necessarily alternate with the

other states. Secondly it cannot be the state of bliss in which the

Jnani is, for his state is permanent and not alternating. Moreover,

the sleep state is not recognised to be one of awareness by people,

but the sage is always aware. Thus the sleep state differs from the

state in which the sage is established.

Still more, the sleep state is free from thoughts and their impression

to the individual. It cannot be altered by one’s will because

effort is impossible in that condition. Although nearer to Pure

Consciousness, it is not fit for efforts to realise the Self.

 

The incentive to realise can arise only in the waking state and efforts

can also be made only when one is awake. We learn that the thoughts

in the waking state form the obstacle to gaining the stillness of sleep.

“Be still and know that I AM God”. So stillness is the aim of the seeker.

Even a single effort to still at least a single thought even for a trice goes

a long way to reach the state of quiescence. Effort is required and it

is possible in the waking state only. There is the effort here: there is

awareness also; the thoughts are stilled; so there is the peace of sleep

gained. That is the state of the Jnani. It is neither sleep nor waking

but intermediate between the two. There is the awareness of the

waking state and the stillness of sleep. It is called jagrat-sushupti.

Call it wakeful sleep or sleeping wakefulness or sleepless waking or

wakeless sleep. It is not the same as sleep or waking separately. It is

atijagrat (beyond wakefulness) or atisushupti(beyond sleep). It

is the state of perfect awareness and of perfect stillness combined.

It lies between sleep and waking; it is also the interval between two

successive thoughts. It is the source from which thoughts spring;

we see that when we wake up from sleep. In other words thoughts

have their origin in the stillness of sleep. The thoughts make all the

difference between the stillness of sleep and the turmoil of waking.

Go to the root of the thoughts and you reach the stillness of sleep. But you

reach it in the full vigour of search, that is, with perfect awareness.

That is again jagrat-sushupti spoken of before. It is not dullness; but

it is Bliss. It is not transitory but it is eternal. From that the thoughts

proceed. What are all our experiences but thoughts? Pleasure and

pain are mere thoughts. They are within ourselves. If you are free

from thoughts and yet aware, you are That Perfect Being.

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