Talk 439.

[Guest guest]

Talk 439.

D.: Rama asks: "Brahman being Pure, how can maya arise from Him

and veil Him also? "Vasishta replies: "In pure mind associated with

strong dispassion this question will not arise." Of course in advaita

(non-dualistic) philosophy there can be no place for jiva, Isvara

and maya. Oneself sinking into the Self, the vasanas (tendencies)

will entirely disappear, leaving no room for such a question.

M.: The answers will be according to the capacity of the seeker. It is

said in the second chapter of Gita that no one is born or dies: but

in the fourth chapter Sri Krishna says that numerous incarnations

of His and of Arjuna had taken place, all known to Him but not to

Arjuna. Which of these statements is true? Both statements are true,

but from different standpoints. Now a question is raised: How can

jiva rise up from the Self? I must answer. Only know Your Real

Being, then you will not raise this question.

Why should a man consider himself separate? How was he before

being born or how will he be after death? Why waste time in such

discussions? What was your form in deep sleep? Why do you

consider yourself as an individual?

D.: My form remains subtle in deep sleep.

M.: As is the effect so is the cause. As is the tree so is its seed. The

whole tree is contained in the seed which later manifests as the

tree. The expanded tree must have a substratum which we call

maya. As a matter of truth there is neither seed nor tree. There is

only Being.

D.: Vasanakshaya (total end of all predispositions) - Mano nasa

(annihilation of mind) - Atma-sakshatkara (Realisation of the

Self). They seem to be interdependent.

426

Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi

M.: The different expressions have only one meaning. They differ

according to the individual's stage of progress. Dispassion,

Realisation, all mean the same thing; also they say `practice and

dispassion'. Why practice? Because the modes of mind once

subside and then rise up; again subside and rise up, and so on.

D.: Beginningless predisposition makes one do wrong. Without

jnana this predisposition cannot vanish. But jnana looks almost

impossible. Expiation alone cannot undo all the karma; for how

much expiation will be needed! Look where we will! Everything

looks difficult, even impossible. Association with the wise seems

to be the only cure of all ills.

M.: What is to be done? Reality is One only. How can It be realised?

Realisation is thus an illusion. Practice seems to be necessary. Who

is to practise? Looking for the doer, the act and the accessories

disappear.

Moreover, if Realisation is not present here and now, how can It,

newly got, be of any use? What is permanent must be eternally

present. Can it be newly got and be permanent also?

Realise what is present here and now. The sages did so before and

still do that only. Hence they say that it looks as if newly got. Once

veiled by ignorance and later revealed, Reality looks as if newly

realised. But it is not new.

D.: Karma, bhakti, yoga and jnana and their subdivisions only confuse

the mind. To follow the elders' words seems to be the only right

thing to do. What should I hold? Please tell me. I cannot sift the

srutis and smritis; they are too vast. So please advise me.

(No answer.)