Letters from Sri Ramanasramam - 137

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Letters from Sri Ramanasramam

6th September, 1947

 

(137) BEYOND THE THREE STATES

 

Last month, during my sister-in-law’s stay here, the proofs

of the Telugu version of the ‘Vichara Mani Mala’ (Self-enquiry)

were received. In the afternoon Bhagavan corrected them

and passed them on to me.

 

On reading them, my sister-in law asked me the meaning of swapnatyanta nivritti.

I tried to explain, but as I was not sure myself, I could not satisfy her

fully. On noticing this, Bhagavan asked, “What is the matter?

Is there a mistake?”

I replied, “No. She is asking the meaning of swapnatyanta nivritti.”

Bhagavan said kindly, “It means absolute, dreamless sleep.”

I asked, “Would it be true to say that a Jnani has no dreams?”

Bhagavan: “He has no dream-state.”

 

My sister-in-law was still not satisfied, but as people

began to talk about other things, we had to leave the matter

there. Only at night she said, “In the Vasishtam1 it is stated

that a Realized Soul appears to perform actions, but they do

not affect him at all. We ought to have asked Bhagavan the

real meaning of this.”

 

On going to the Ashram next morning, it so happened

that Bhagavan was just then explaining the very point to

Sundaresa Iyer. Eagerly availing herself of the opportunity,

my sister-in-law again asked, “Bhagavan has stated that

Swapnatyanta nivritti means absolute, dreamless sleep. Does

it mean that a Jnani does not have dreams at all?”

Bhagavan: “It is not only the dream-state, but all three

states are unreal to the Jnani. The real state of the Jnani is

where none of these three states exists.”

I asked, “Is not the waking state also equivalent to a

dream?”

Bhagavan: “Yes, whereas a dream lasts for a short time,

the waking state lasts longer. That is the only difference.”

I: “Then deep sleep is also a dream?”

Bhagavan: “No, deep sleep is an actuality. How can it

be a dream when there is no mental activity? However, since

it is a state of mental vacuity, it is nescience (avidya) and must

therefore be rejected.”

I persisted, “But is not deep sleep also said to be a

dream state?”

 

Bhagavan: “Some may have said so for the sake of

terminology, but really there is nothing separate. Short or

long duration applies only to the dream and waking states.

Someone may say: ‘we have lived so long and these houses

and belongings are so clearly evident to us that it surely can’t

be all a dream’. But we have to remember that even dreams

seem long while they last. It is only when you wake up that

you realize that they only lasted a short time. In the same

way, when one attains Realization (jnana), this life is seen to

be momentary. Dreamless sleep means nescience; therefore

it is to be rejected in favour of the state of pure Awareness.”

 

My sister-in-law then interposed, “It is said that the

bliss that occurs in deep sleep is experienced in the state of

samadhi2 as well, but how is that to be reconciled with the

statement that deep sleep is a state of nescience?”

 

Bhagavan: “That is why deep sleep has also to be

rejected. It is true that there is bliss in deep sleep, but one is

not aware of it. One only knows about it afterwards when

one wakes up and says that one has slept well. Samadhi means

experiencing this bliss while remaining awake.”

I: “So it means waking, or conscious sleep?”

 

Bhagavan: “Yes, that’s it.”

 

My sister-in-law then brought up the other cognate

question that had worried her: “It is said by Vasishta that a

Realized Soul seems to others to be engaged in various

activities, but he is not affected by them at all. Is it because of

their different outlook that it seems so to others, or is he

really unaffected?”

 

Bhagavan: “He is really unaffected.”

My sister-in-law: “People speak of favourable visions,

both in dream and while awake; what are they”?

Bhagavan: “To a Realized Soul they all seem the same.”

However she persisted, “It is stated in Bhagavan’s

biography that Ganapati Muni had a vision of Bhagavan

when he was at Tiruvottiyur and Bhagavan was at

Tiruvannamalai, and that, at the very same time, Bhagavan

had a feeling of accepting homage. How can such things be

explained?”

 

Bhagavan answered cryptically, “I have already stated

that such things are what are known as divine visions.” He

was then silent, indicating that he was not willing to continue

the talk any further.