Guest guest Posted February 8, 2009 Report Share Posted February 8, 2009 Astrology may not be a science -- and I have no quarrels with that concept! But is Dr. Narlikar -- whose scientific findings were refuted eventually or modified at least -- an astrologer? Is he qualified to make that kind of judgment against astrology? I rest my case ;-) Rohiniranjan vedic astrology , " Davendra " <davendrak wrote: > > please look into the article by an eminent scientist. > > > November 4, 2006 > Press Trust Of India > Rourkela, February 09, 2009 > First Published: 12:51 IST(9/2/2009) > Last Updated: 12:54 IST(9/2/2009) > Future lies in hands and not planets: Narlikar > " Our future lies in our hands and not on the position of planets, " > said eminent scientist and internationally acclaimed astro- physicist > Prof J V Narlikar. > He said there was a wrong concept that planets influenced the > future. " The planets are powerless. Stand on your own feet, know your > problem and try to solve it yourself. " > The astronomer pointed out there were even differences among > astrologers with western astrology differing from Indian astrology. > " Astrology is not science, but superstition, he said. > Astrologers knew that people came to them when they faced problems > and kept them hanging so that they made repeated visits. > Narlikar was speaking at a seminar 'Astrology-a pseudo-sience' here > last night organised by the Orissa Rationalists Association. > http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/Print.aspx?Id=eab5b5ad-2c22- > 416f-bf1a-92a56bfd1904 > © Copyright 2007 Hindustan Times > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 8, 2009 Report Share Posted February 8, 2009 ||Jai Ramakrishna|| Dear Friend Davendra, Shri Ramakrishna used to say " Shudhu " Siddhi " " Siddhi " bolley toh nesha hobey na, Siddhi aano, ghoto, khaao...taahole toh nesha hobey (meaning; One doesn't get intoxicated by only uttering " Siddhi " ,or " Bhaang " ; You will only get intoxicated once you prepare & drink it). Similarly, Scientists should first test the whether Astrology is a superstition or pseudo-Science or Combination of Arts(Application of Theories) & Science(theory itself) & then comment on it. Thank you, . http://gauravastro.150m.com vedic astrology , " Rohiniranjan " <jyotish_vani wrote: > > Astrology may not be a science -- and I have no quarrels with that > concept! > > But is Dr. Narlikar -- whose scientific findings were refuted > eventually or modified at least -- an astrologer? Is he qualified to > make that kind of judgment against astrology? > > I rest my case ;-) > > Rohiniranjan > > vedic astrology , " Davendra " <davendrak@> > wrote: > > > > please look into the article by an eminent scientist. > > > > > > November 4, 2006 > > Press Trust Of India > > Rourkela, February 09, 2009 > > First Published: 12:51 IST(9/2/2009) > > Last Updated: 12:54 IST(9/2/2009) > > Future lies in hands and not planets: Narlikar > > " Our future lies in our hands and not on the position of planets, " > > said eminent scientist and internationally acclaimed astro- > physicist > > Prof J V Narlikar. > > He said there was a wrong concept that planets influenced the > > future. " The planets are powerless. Stand on your own feet, know > your > > problem and try to solve it yourself. " > > The astronomer pointed out there were even differences among > > astrologers with western astrology differing from Indian astrology. > > " Astrology is not science, but superstition, he said. > > Astrologers knew that people came to them when they faced problems > > and kept them hanging so that they made repeated visits. > > Narlikar was speaking at a seminar 'Astrology-a pseudo-sience' here > > last night organised by the Orissa Rationalists Association. > > http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/Print.aspx?Id=eab5b5ad-2c22- > > 416f-bf1a-92a56bfd1904 > > © Copyright 2007 Hindustan Times > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 8, 2009 Report Share Posted February 8, 2009 Gauravji: I sure hope and pray that some of the modern teenagers are not reading your message! In these days of instant gratification, even in the field of remedial astrology, there is no need to do any " ghotaa-ghati " for 'ghotonaa' to take place! Amazing ads in astrology magazines and TV of course! I saw an interesting hindi movie the other day called Kismet Konnection or some similar name! Kind of pithy once you bite hard and dig deeply into it! vedic astrology , " " <gaurav.ghosh wrote: > > ||Jai Ramakrishna|| > Dear Friend Davendra, > Shri Ramakrishna used to say " Shudhu " Siddhi " " Siddhi " bolley toh > nesha hobey na, Siddhi aano, ghoto, khaao...taahole toh nesha hobey > (meaning; One doesn't get intoxicated by only uttering " Siddhi " ,or > " Bhaang " ; You will only get intoxicated once you prepare & drink it). > Similarly, Scientists should first test the whether Astrology is a > superstition or pseudo-Science or Combination of Arts(Application of > Theories) & Science(theory itself) & then comment on it. > Thank you, > . > http://gauravastro.150m.com > > > vedic astrology , " Rohiniranjan " > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > Astrology may not be a science -- and I have no quarrels with that > > concept! > > > > But is Dr. Narlikar -- whose scientific findings were refuted > > eventually or modified at least -- an astrologer? Is he qualified to > > make that kind of judgment against astrology? > > > > I rest my case ;-) > > > > Rohiniranjan > > > > vedic astrology , " Davendra " <davendrak@> > > wrote: > > > > > > please look into the article by an eminent scientist. > > > > > > > > > November 4, 2006 > > > Press Trust Of India > > > Rourkela, February 09, 2009 > > > First Published: 12:51 IST(9/2/2009) > > > Last Updated: 12:54 IST(9/2/2009) > > > Future lies in hands and not planets: Narlikar > > > " Our future lies in our hands and not on the position of planets, " > > > said eminent scientist and internationally acclaimed astro- > > physicist > > > Prof J V Narlikar. > > > He said there was a wrong concept that planets influenced the > > > future. " The planets are powerless. Stand on your own feet, know > > your > > > problem and try to solve it yourself. " > > > The astronomer pointed out there were even differences among > > > astrologers with western astrology differing from Indian astrology. > > > " Astrology is not science, but superstition, he said. > > > Astrologers knew that people came to them when they faced problems > > > and kept them hanging so that they made repeated visits. > > > Narlikar was speaking at a seminar 'Astrology-a pseudo-sience' here > > > last night organised by the Orissa Rationalists Association. > > > http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/Print.aspx?Id=eab5b5ad- 2c22- > > > 416f-bf1a-92a56bfd1904 > > > © Copyright 2007 Hindustan Times > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 8, 2009 Report Share Posted February 8, 2009 Dear Devendra and all, It seems that the scientist must have had some unpleasent experience with astrolgers or his 9th house may be having those planets which makes the native see astrology as supertitious. We of course are influnced by the planets in the orbit. Our actions, our tastes, our mind, our relationships, our intelligence and many more are influenced by the planets. If that is not the case then why would there be any kind of disparity between all individuals, why our thoughts are different, why do we think differently & not similarly like all. Astrology is merely not limited to predicting various events in our lives, it is also a guide which shows us how our past, present &  future will look like and how best can we adapt ourselves to those kind of situations, circumstances & events which have influenced us also the events which will be going to influence us in our respective lives. The fact that u have posted this query, I am certain u r not a astrloger.  GOD BLESS YOU WITH WARM REGARDS HARESH(HARRY)NATHANI VEDIC ASTOLOGER VAASTU CONSULTANT CELL +919867214103 (MUMBAI,INDIA) please look into the article by an eminent scientist. November 4, 2006 Press Trust Of India Rourkela, February 09, 2009 First Published: 12:51 IST(9/2/2009) Last Updated: 12:54 IST(9/2/2009) Future lies in hands and not planets: Narlikar " Our future lies in our hands and not on the position of planets, " said eminent scientist and internationally acclaimed astro-physicist Prof J V Narlikar. He said there was a wrong concept that planets influenced the future. " The planets are powerless. Stand on your own feet, know your problem and try to solve it yourself. " The astronomer pointed out there were even differences among astrologers with western astrology differing from Indian astrology. " Astrology is not science, but superstition, he said. Astrologers knew that people came to them when they faced problems and kept them hanging so that they made repeated visits. Narlikar was speaking at a seminar 'Astrology-a pseudo-sience' here last night organised by the Orissa Rationalists Association. http://www.hindusta ntimes.com/ StoryPage/ Print.aspx? Id=eab5b5ad- 2c22- 416f-bf1a-92a56bfd1 904 © Copyright 2007 Hindustan Times ________________________________ Davendra <davendrak vedic astrology Monday, 9 February, 2009 7:24:10 AM [vedic astrology] Astrology/Science?? Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Go to http://messenger./invite/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 8, 2009 Report Share Posted February 8, 2009 Mr. Haresh (Harry) Nathani, Since you addressed your posting to <all> ... I think Dr. Narlikar has had a pretty productive life, scientifically and otherwise so let us not presume that he has anything personal against astrology! Perhaps, unless I am frightfully wrong, he does not even know or care to know about this forum or the two or three other jyotish fora that we all frequent. While your personal passion for astrology as expressed is understood and reciprocated amicably -- there have been jyotishi-astrophyicists like Mr. Jha who have been questioning the MATH and astro-coordinates that the great body of astrologers have been utilizing for decades and perhaps centuries! What is your opinion? Should we listen to what Mr. Vinay Jha has to say or do we dismiss him summarily? The 'YOU' is metaphorical, of course, since I know that 'Harry' does not really control what the Goddess JR Rowlings writes, nor what MOGULS ultimately decide to do with their lives! vedic astrology , " Haresh \(Harry\) Nathani " <haresh1405 wrote: > > Dear Devendra and all, > > It seems that the scientist must have had some unpleasent experience with astrolgers or his 9th house may be having those planets which makes the native see astrology as supertitious. > > We of course are influnced by the planets in the orbit. Our actions, our tastes, our mind, our relationships, our intelligence and many more are influenced by the planets. If that is not the case then why would there be any kind of disparity between all individuals, why our thoughts are different, why do we think differently & not similarly like all. > > Astrology is merely not limited to predicting various events in our lives, it is also a guide which shows us how our past, present &  future will look like and how best can we adapt ourselves to those kind of situations, circumstances & events which have influenced us also the events which will be going to influence us in our respective lives. > > The fact that u have posted this query, I am certain u r not a astrloger. > >  > GOD BLESS YOU > WITH WARM REGARDS > HARESH(HARRY)NATHANI > VEDIC ASTOLOGER > VAASTU CONSULTANT > CELL +919867214103 > (MUMBAI,INDIA) > > > please look into the article by an eminent scientist. > > November 4, 2006 > Press Trust Of India > Rourkela, February 09, 2009 > First Published: 12:51 IST(9/2/2009) > Last Updated: 12:54 IST(9/2/2009) > Future lies in hands and not planets: Narlikar > " Our future lies in our hands and not on the position of planets, " > said eminent scientist and internationally acclaimed astro- physicist > Prof J V Narlikar. > He said there was a wrong concept that planets influenced the > future. " The planets are powerless. Stand on your own feet, know your > problem and try to solve it yourself. " > The astronomer pointed out there were even differences among > astrologers with western astrology differing from Indian astrology. > " Astrology is not science, but superstition, he said. > Astrologers knew that people came to them when they faced problems > and kept them hanging so that they made repeated visits. > Narlikar was speaking at a seminar 'Astrology-a pseudo-sience' here > last night organised by the Orissa Rationalists Association. > http://www.hindusta ntimes.com/ StoryPage/ Print.aspx? Id=eab5b5ad- 2c22- > 416f-bf1a-92a56bfd1 904 > © Copyright 2007 Hindustan Times > > > > ________________________________ > Davendra <davendrak > vedic astrology > Monday, 9 February, 2009 7:24:10 AM > [vedic astrology] Astrology/Science?? > > > > Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Go to http://messenger./invite/ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2009 Report Share Posted February 9, 2009  Dear Mr. RR Ji We should dismiss him summarily. The fact will always remain that Jyotish Shashtra is science & not fiction or art. If Jyotish Shahshtra has got such a huge milage & acceptablity since 3 yugas, it is because it is science. Rishi Parasher took almost seven births in this universe to understand & experience the practical acceptablity of Jyotish Shahshtra, but we are the most unfortunate, some Jyotish authors have not understood the message of Rishi Parasher & speculatively have given their own personal opinions without trying to understand the effect of it on the neophytes.  GOD BLESS YOU WITH WARM REGARDS HARESH(HARRY)NATHANI VEDIC ASTOLOGER VAASTU CONSULTANT CELL +919867214103 (MUMBAI,INDIA) http://groups. / group/Jyotish_ Remedies/ database ________________________________ Rohiniranjan <jyotish_vani vedic astrology Monday, 9 February, 2009 12:23:33 PM [vedic astrology] Re: Astrology/Science?? Mr. Haresh (Harry) Nathani, Since you addressed your posting to <all> ... I think Dr. Narlikar has had a pretty productive life, scientifically and otherwise so let us not presume that he has anything personal against astrology! Perhaps, unless I am frightfully wrong, he does not even know or care to know about this forum or the two or three other jyotish fora that we all frequent. While your personal passion for astrology as expressed is understood and reciprocated amicably -- there have been jyotishi-astrophyic ists like Mr. Jha who have been questioning the MATH and astro-coordinates that the great body of astrologers have been utilizing for decades and perhaps centuries! What is your opinion? Should we listen to what Mr. Vinay Jha has to say or do we dismiss him summarily? The 'YOU' is metaphorical, of course, since I know that 'Harry' does not really control what the Goddess JR Rowlings writes, nor what MOGULS ultimately decide to do with their lives! vedic astrology, " Haresh \(Harry\) Nathani " <haresh1405@ ...> wrote: > > Dear Devendra and all, > > It seems that the scientist must have had some unpleasent experience with astrolgers or his 9th house may be having those planets which makes the native see astrology as supertitious. > > We of course are influnced by the planets in the orbit. Our actions, our tastes, our mind, our relationships, our intelligence and many more are influenced by the planets. If that is not the case then why would there be any kind of disparity between all individuals, why our thoughts are different, why do we think differently & not similarly like all. > > Astrology is merely not limited to predicting various events in our lives, it is also a guide which shows us how our past, present &  future will look like and how best can we adapt ourselves to those kind of situations, circumstances & events which have influenced us also the events which will be going to influence us in our respective lives. > > The fact that u have posted this query, I am certain u r not a astrloger. > >  > GOD BLESS YOU > WITH WARM REGARDS > HARESH(HARRY) NATHANI > VEDIC ASTOLOGER > VAASTU CONSULTANT > CELL +919867214103 > (MUMBAI,INDIA) > > > please look into the article by an eminent scientist. > > November 4, 2006 > Press Trust Of India > Rourkela, February 09, 2009 > First Published: 12:51 IST(9/2/2009) > Last Updated: 12:54 IST(9/2/2009) > Future lies in hands and not planets: Narlikar > " Our future lies in our hands and not on the position of planets, " > said eminent scientist and internationally acclaimed astro- physicist > Prof J V Narlikar. > He said there was a wrong concept that planets influenced the > future. " The planets are powerless. Stand on your own feet, know your > problem and try to solve it yourself. " > The astronomer pointed out there were even differences among > astrologers with western astrology differing from Indian astrology. > " Astrology is not science, but superstition, he said. > Astrologers knew that people came to them when they faced problems > and kept them hanging so that they made repeated visits. > Narlikar was speaking at a seminar 'Astrology-a pseudo-sience' here > last night organised by the Orissa Rationalists Association. > http://www.hindusta ntimes.com/ StoryPage/ Print.aspx? Id=eab5b5ad- 2c22- > 416f-bf1a-92a56bfd1 904 > © Copyright 2007 Hindustan Times > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > Davendra <davendrak@. ..> > vedic astrology > Monday, 9 February, 2009 7:24:10 AM > [vedic astrology] Astrology/Science? ? > > > > Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Go to http://messenger. / invite/ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2009 Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 Please into this article by a known scientist of repute. November 4, 2006 Press Trust Of India Rourkela, February 09, 2009 First Published: 12:51 IST(9/2/2009) Last Updated: 12:54 IST(9/2/2009) Future lies in hands and not planets: Narlikar " Our future lies in our hands and not on the position of planets, " said eminent scientist and internationally acclaimed astro-physicist Prof J V Narlikar. He said there was a wrong concept that planets influenced the future. " The planets are powerless. Stand on your own feet, know your problem and try to solve it yourself. " The astronomer pointed out there were even differences among astrologers with western astrology differing from Indian astrology. " Astrology is not science, but superstition, he said. Astrologers knew that people came to them when they faced problems and kept them hanging so that they made repeated visits. Narlikar was speaking at a seminar 'Astrology-a pseudo-sience' here last night organised by the Orissa Rationalists Association. http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/Print.aspx?Id=eab5b5ad-2c22- 416f-bf1a-92a56bfd1904 © Copyright 2007 Hindustan Times Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2009 Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 Astrology is India's great stellar science. Pls read my articles on www.e.com to understand that it is a science ! With warm regards G Kumar astro scholar & programmer http://www.e.net/ www.stockmarketastrology.com www.e.com Great Ebooks at http://www.e.com/html/Ebooks.htm Submit your blogs, news & sites at http://www.e.info - Haresh (Harry) Nathani vedic astrology Monday, February 09, 2009 1:10 PM Re: [vedic astrology] Re: Astrology/Science?? Dear Mr. RR Ji We should dismiss him summarily. The fact will always remain that Jyotish Shashtra is science & not fiction or art. If Jyotish Shahshtra has got such a huge milage & acceptablity since 3 yugas, it is because it is science. Rishi Parasher took almost seven births in this universe to understand & experience the practical acceptablity of Jyotish Shahshtra, but we are the most unfortunate, some Jyotish authors have not understood the message of Rishi Parasher & speculatively have given their own personal opinions without trying to understand the effect of it on the neophytes. GOD BLESS YOU WITH WARM REGARDS HARESH(HARRY)NATHANI VEDIC ASTOLOGER VAASTU CONSULTANT CELL +919867214103 (MUMBAI,INDIA) http://groups. / group/Jyotish_ Remedies/ database ________________________________ Rohiniranjan <jyotish_vani vedic astrology Monday, 9 February, 2009 12:23:33 PM [vedic astrology] Re: Astrology/Science?? Mr. Haresh (Harry) Nathani, Since you addressed your posting to <all> ... I think Dr. Narlikar has had a pretty productive life, scientifically and otherwise so let us not presume that he has anything personal against astrology! Perhaps, unless I am frightfully wrong, he does not even know or care to know about this forum or the two or three other jyotish fora that we all frequent. While your personal passion for astrology as expressed is understood and reciprocated amicably -- there have been jyotishi-astrophyic ists like Mr. Jha who have been questioning the MATH and astro-coordinates that the great body of astrologers have been utilizing for decades and perhaps centuries! What is your opinion? Should we listen to what Mr. Vinay Jha has to say or do we dismiss him summarily? The 'YOU' is metaphorical, of course, since I know that 'Harry' does not really control what the Goddess JR Rowlings writes, nor what MOGULS ultimately decide to do with their lives! vedic astrology, " Haresh \(Harry\) Nathani " <haresh1405@ ...> wrote: > > Dear Devendra and all, > > It seems that the scientist must have had some unpleasent experience with astrolgers or his 9th house may be having those planets which makes the native see astrology as supertitious. > > We of course are influnced by the planets in the orbit. Our actions, our tastes, our mind, our relationships, our intelligence and many more are influenced by the planets. If that is not the case then why would there be any kind of disparity between all individuals, why our thoughts are different, why do we think differently & not similarly like all. > > Astrology is merely not limited to predicting various events in our lives, it is also a guide which shows us how our past, present &  future will look like and how best can we adapt ourselves to those kind of situations, circumstances & events which have influenced us also the events which will be going to influence us in our respective lives. > > The fact that u have posted this query, I am certain u r not a astrloger. > >  > GOD BLESS YOU > WITH WARM REGARDS > HARESH(HARRY) NATHANI > VEDIC ASTOLOGER > VAASTU CONSULTANT > CELL +919867214103 > (MUMBAI,INDIA) > > > please look into the article by an eminent scientist. > > November 4, 2006 > Press Trust Of India > Rourkela, February 09, 2009 > First Published: 12:51 IST(9/2/2009) > Last Updated: 12:54 IST(9/2/2009) > Future lies in hands and not planets: Narlikar > " Our future lies in our hands and not on the position of planets, " > said eminent scientist and internationally acclaimed astro- physicist > Prof J V Narlikar. > He said there was a wrong concept that planets influenced the > future. " The planets are powerless. Stand on your own feet, know your > problem and try to solve it yourself. " > The astronomer pointed out there were even differences among > astrologers with western astrology differing from Indian astrology. > " Astrology is not science, but superstition, he said. > Astrologers knew that people came to them when they faced problems > and kept them hanging so that they made repeated visits. > Narlikar was speaking at a seminar 'Astrology-a pseudo-sience' here > last night organised by the Orissa Rationalists Association. > http://www.hindusta ntimes.com/ StoryPage/ Print.aspx? Id=eab5b5ad- 2c22- > 416f-bf1a-92a56bfd1 904 > © Copyright 2007 Hindustan Times > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > Davendra <davendrak@. ..> > vedic astrology > Monday, 9 February, 2009 7:24:10 AM > [vedic astrology] Astrology/Science? ? > > > > Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Go to http://messenger. / invite/ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2009 Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 Dear Shri Davendraji, If You can forward this to them - I can challenge any commitee of theirs single handedly to a discussion where in I shall prove them that their views on astrology are wrong, and the culture of India which accepts astrology, is right. But they must be ready to face the punishment which I inflict on them, after I defeat them. I am ready. regards/Bhaskar. , " Davendra " <davendrak wrote: > > Please into this article by a known scientist of repute. > > November 4, 2006 > Press Trust Of India > Rourkela, February 09, 2009 > First Published: 12:51 IST(9/2/2009) > Last Updated: 12:54 IST(9/2/2009) > Future lies in hands and not planets: Narlikar > " Our future lies in our hands and not on the position of planets, " > said eminent scientist and internationally acclaimed astro-physicist > Prof J V Narlikar. > He said there was a wrong concept that planets influenced the > future. " The planets are powerless. Stand on your own feet, know your > problem and try to solve it yourself. " > The astronomer pointed out there were even differences among > astrologers with western astrology differing from Indian astrology. > " Astrology is not science, but superstition, he said. > Astrologers knew that people came to them when they faced problems > and kept them hanging so that they made repeated visits. > Narlikar was speaking at a seminar 'Astrology-a pseudo-sience' here > last night organised by the Orissa Rationalists Association. > http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/Print.aspx?Id=eab5b5ad-2c22- > 416f-bf1a-92a56bfd1904 > © Copyright 2007 Hindustan Times > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2009 Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 Prof Narliker, I am actually saddened more by the state of our so called scientists than the alleged psedoism of astrology and astrologers. I thouhgt scientists verified data before reaching a conclusion. Would first and foremost like u inform me your credentials for passing this statement. Bhaskarji, you dont have to prove anything to these guys. Afterall u fearlessly predict openly on a forum for all to read. I need help. I am at Dubai and not possible completely to find the whereabouts of this Prof. I need these details , I intend to file a defamation case against him. Vats From: bhaskar_jyotishDate: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 05:56:14 +0000 Re: Astrology/Science?? Dear Shri Davendraji,If You can forward this to them -I can challenge any commitee of theirs single handedly to a discussionwhere in I shall prove them that their views on astrology are wrong, andthe culture of India which accepts astrology, is right. But they must beready to face the punishment which I inflict on them, after I defeatthem. I am ready.regards/Bhaskar. , "Davendra" <davendrak wrote:>> Please into this article by a known scientist of repute.>> November 4, 2006> Press Trust Of India> Rourkela, February 09, 2009> First Published: 12:51 IST(9/2/2009)> Last Updated: 12:54 IST(9/2/2009)> Future lies in hands and not planets: Narlikar> "Our future lies in our hands and not on the position of planets,"> said eminent scientist and internationally acclaimed astro-physicist> Prof J V Narlikar.> He said there was a wrong concept that planets influenced the> future. "The planets are powerless. Stand on your own feet, know your> problem and try to solve it yourself."> The astronomer pointed out there were even differences among> astrologers with western astrology differing from Indian astrology.> "Astrology is not science, but superstition, he said.> Astrologers knew that people came to them when they faced problems> and kept them hanging so that they made repeated visits.> Narlikar was speaking at a seminar 'Astrology-a pseudo-sience' here> last night organised by the Orissa Rationalists Association.> http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/Print.aspx?Id=eab5b5ad-2c22-> 416f-bf1a-92a56bfd1904> © Copyright 2007 Hindustan Times> Rediscover the magic of Windows WIN a Windows Vista laptop Windows mobile phone at www.windowsandme.com Try it now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 Dear Pradeep ji, I appreciate your sentiments and concerns. There are many people on the Internet Groups, who are like this professor. Against how many shall we file a defamation suit ? Duality has to exist in Life, and on Earth, hence Believers and Non-Believers have to exist, just like God and Satan. best wishes, Bhaskar. , PRADEEP SAHAI <sahaip wrote: > > > Prof Narliker, > I am actually saddened more by the state of our so called scientists > than the alleged psedoism of astrology and astrologers. > I thouhgt scientists verified data before reaching a conclusion. > Would first and foremost like u inform me your credentials for passing this statement. > > Bhaskarji, you dont have to prove anything to these guys. Afterall u fearlessly predict openly on a forum for all to read. > > I need help. I am at Dubai and not possible completely to find the whereabouts of this Prof. > I need these details , I intend to file a defamation case against him. > Vats > > > > : bhaskar_jyotish: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 05:56:14 +0000 Re: Astrology/Science?? > > > > Dear Shri Davendraji,If You can forward this to them -I can challenge any commitee of theirs single handedly to a discussionwhere in I shall prove them that their views on astrology are wrong, andthe culture of India which accepts astrology, is right. But they must beready to face the punishment which I inflict on them, after I defeatthem. I am ready.regards/Bhaskar. , " Davendra " davendrak@ wrote:>> Please into this article by a known scientist of repute.>> November 4, 2006> Press Trust Of India> Rourkela, February 09, 2009> First Published: 12:51 IST(9/2/2009)> Last Updated: 12:54 IST(9/2/2009)> Future lies in hands and not planets: Narlikar> " Our future lies in our hands and not on the position of planets, " > said eminent scientist and internationally acclaimed astro-physicist> Prof J V Narlikar.> He said there was a wrong concept that planets influenced the> future. " The planets are powerless. Stand on your own feet, know your> problem and try to solve it yourself. " > The astronomer pointed out there were even differences among> astrologers with western astrology differing from Indian astrology.> " Astrology is not science, but superstition, he said.> Astrologers knew that people came to them when they faced problems> and kept them hanging so that they made repeated visits.> Narlikar was speaking at a seminar 'Astrology-a pseudo-sience' here> last night organised by the Orissa Rationalists Association.> http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/Print.aspx?Id=eab5b5ad-2c22-> 416f-bf1a-92a56bfd1904> © Copyright 2007 Hindustan Times> _______________ > Plug in to the MSN Tech channel for a full update on the latest gizmos that made an impact. > http://computing.in.msn.com/ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 Dear Mr. Nathani, While I respect your passionate stand in this matter, by *summarily* dismissing what Narlikar or the previous scientists (Sagan for instance) or the next scientist states about astrology based on their casual brush with a discipline that has kept some fairly cerebral people raptly absorbed for many many years and perhaps lifetimes -- we would be simply falling in the same rank and style as him or other 'rationalists'. I think instead of presenting a slogan (e.g., Astrology is not science and bunk!) with a counter-slogan ( " Astrology is a science and has always been ... " ), both sides would have to forward illustrations and arguments to justify their positions. And that takes a lot of time and dedication so then becomes a personal choice for each proponent and opponent! In that vein, I would applaud the contribution of Seymore and of Eysenck and Nias. I am certain all who believe that astrology is science have read these short offerings even if these may not be directly based in jyotish. RR vedic astrology , " Haresh \(Harry\) Nathani " <haresh1405 wrote: > >  Dear Mr. RR Ji > > We should dismiss him summarily. The fact will always remain that Jyotish Shashtra is science & not fiction or art. If Jyotish Shahshtra has got such a huge milage & acceptablity since 3 yugas, it is because it is science. > > Rishi Parasher took almost seven births in this universe to understand & experience the practical acceptablity of Jyotish Shahshtra, but we are the most unfortunate, some Jyotish authors have not understood the message of Rishi Parasher & speculatively have given their own personal opinions without trying to understand the effect of it on the neophytes. >  > GOD BLESS YOU > WITH WARM REGARDS > HARESH(HARRY)NATHANI > VEDIC ASTOLOGER > VAASTU CONSULTANT > CELL +919867214103 > (MUMBAI,INDIA) > http://groups. / group/Jyotish_ Remedies/ database > > > > > > ________________________________ > Rohiniranjan <jyotish_vani > vedic astrology > Monday, 9 February, 2009 12:23:33 PM > [vedic astrology] Re: Astrology/Science?? > > > Mr. Haresh (Harry) Nathani, > > Since you addressed your posting to <all> ... > > I think Dr. Narlikar has had a pretty productive life, scientifically > and otherwise so let us not presume that he has anything personal > against astrology! > > Perhaps, unless I am frightfully wrong, he does not even know or care > to know about this forum or the two or three other jyotish fora that > we all frequent. > > While your personal passion for astrology as expressed is understood > and reciprocated amicably -- there have been jyotishi-astrophyic ists > like Mr. Jha who have been questioning the MATH and astro- coordinates > that the great body of astrologers have been utilizing for decades > and perhaps centuries! > > What is your opinion? Should we listen to what Mr. Vinay Jha has to > say or do we dismiss him summarily? > > The 'YOU' is metaphorical, of course, since I know that 'Harry' does > not really control what the Goddess JR Rowlings writes, nor what > MOGULS ultimately decide to do with their lives! > > vedic astrology, " Haresh \(Harry\) Nathani " > <haresh1405@ ...> wrote: > > > > Dear Devendra and all, > > > > It seems that the scientist must have had some unpleasent > experience with astrolgers or his 9th house may be having those > planets which makes the native see astrology as supertitious. > > > > We of course are influnced by the planets in the orbit. Our > actions, our tastes, our mind, our relationships, our intelligence > and many more are influenced by the planets. If that is not the case > then why would there be any kind of disparity between all > individuals, why our thoughts are different, why do we think > differently & not similarly like all. > > > > Astrology is merely not limited to predicting various events in our > lives, it is also a guide which shows us how our past, present > &  future will look like and how best can we adapt ourselves to those > kind of situations, circumstances & events which have influenced us > also the events which will be going to influence us in our > respective lives. > > > > The fact that u have posted this query, I am certain u r not a > astrloger. > > > >  > > GOD BLESS YOU > > WITH WARM REGARDS > > HARESH(HARRY) NATHANI > > VEDIC ASTOLOGER > > VAASTU CONSULTANT > > CELL +919867214103 > > (MUMBAI,INDIA) > > > > > > please look into the article by an eminent scientist. > > > > November 4, 2006 > > Press Trust Of India > > Rourkela, February 09, 2009 > > First Published: 12:51 IST(9/2/2009) > > Last Updated: 12:54 IST(9/2/2009) > > Future lies in hands and not planets: Narlikar > > " Our future lies in our hands and not on the position of planets, " > > said eminent scientist and internationally acclaimed astro- > physicist > > Prof J V Narlikar. > > He said there was a wrong concept that planets influenced the > > future. " The planets are powerless. Stand on your own feet, know > your > > problem and try to solve it yourself. " > > The astronomer pointed out there were even differences among > > astrologers with western astrology differing from Indian astrology. > > " Astrology is not science, but superstition, he said. > > Astrologers knew that people came to them when they faced problems > > and kept them hanging so that they made repeated visits. > > Narlikar was speaking at a seminar 'Astrology-a pseudo-sience' here > > last night organised by the Orissa Rationalists Association. > > http://www.hindusta ntimes.com/ StoryPage/ Print.aspx? Id=eab5b5ad- > 2c22- > > 416f-bf1a-92a56bfd1 904 > > © Copyright 2007 Hindustan Times > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > Davendra <davendrak@ ..> > > vedic astrology > > Monday, 9 February, 2009 7:24:10 AM > > [vedic astrology] Astrology/Science? ? > > > > > > > > Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Go to > http://messenger. / invite/ > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 Dear RR Ji In my experience as an astrologer, I also keep doing research on each & every individual who approach me. I try my best to analyse their speech, behaviour  patterns & then see the respective bhavs & the planets which makes the individual behave accordingly. All planets in our charts marks our approach to the world the way we see it. Astrological science does not fails but it is the astrologer who fails in reading & predicting ones horoscope. It is the astrologer who is responsible & to be blamed & not astrology. The placement 0f moon & its strenght in the chart rules our mind. This is where the astrologer normally fails in analysis. Astrologer or any individual with a afflicted moon will always be speculative & will always give a personal opinion rather trying to give a picture on how it should be. But u hv rightly mentioned astrology is a science & will always remain a science.  GOD BLESS YOU WITH WARM REGARDS HARESH(HARRY)NATHANI VEDIC ASTOLOGER VAASTU CONSULTANT CELL +919867214103 (MUMBAI,INDIA)  ________________________________ Rohiniranjan <jyotish_vani vedic astrology Wednesday, 11 February, 2009 7:38:15 AM [vedic astrology] Re: Astrology/Science?? Dear Mr.. Nathani, While I respect your passionate stand in this matter, by *summarily* dismissing what Narlikar or the previous scientists (Sagan for instance) or the next scientist states about astrology based on their casual brush with a discipline that has kept some fairly cerebral people raptly absorbed for many many years and perhaps lifetimes -- we would be simply falling in the same rank and style as him or other 'rationalists' . I think instead of presenting a slogan (e.g., Astrology is not science and bunk!) with a counter-slogan ( " Astrology is a science and has always been ... " ), both sides would have to forward illustrations and arguments to justify their positions. And that takes a lot of time and dedication so then becomes a personal choice for each proponent and opponent! In that vein, I would applaud the contribution of Seymore and of Eysenck and Nias. I am certain all who believe that astrology is science have read these short offerings even if these may not be directly based in jyotish. RR vedic astrology, " Haresh \(Harry\) Nathani " <haresh1405@ ...> wrote: > >  Dear Mr. RR Ji > > We should dismiss him summarily. The fact will always remain that Jyotish Shashtra is science & not fiction or art. If Jyotish Shahshtra has got such a huge milage & acceptablity since 3 yugas, it is because it is science. > > Rishi Parasher took almost seven births in this universe to understand & experience the practical acceptablity of Jyotish Shahshtra, but we are the most unfortunate, some Jyotish authors have not understood the message of Rishi Parasher & speculatively have given their own personal opinions without trying to understand the effect of it on the neophytes. >  > GOD BLESS YOU > WITH WARM REGARDS > HARESH(HARRY) NATHANI > VEDIC ASTOLOGER > VAASTU CONSULTANT > CELL +919867214103 > (MUMBAI,INDIA) > http://groups. / group/Jyotish_ Remedies/ database > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > Rohiniranjan <jyotish_vani@ ...> > vedic astrology > Monday, 9 February, 2009 12:23:33 PM > [vedic astrology] Re: Astrology/Science? ? > > > Mr. Haresh (Harry) Nathani, > > Since you addressed your posting to <all> ... > > I think Dr.. Narlikar has had a pretty productive life, scientifically > and otherwise so let us not presume that he has anything personal > against astrology! > > Perhaps, unless I am frightfully wrong, he does not even know or care > to know about this forum or the two or three other jyotish fora that > we all frequent. > > While your personal passion for astrology as expressed is understood > and reciprocated amicably -- there have been jyotishi-astrophyic ists > like Mr. Jha who have been questioning the MATH and astro- coordinates > that the great body of astrologers have been utilizing for decades > and perhaps centuries! > > What is your opinion? Should we listen to what Mr. Vinay Jha has to > say or do we dismiss him summarily? > > The 'YOU' is metaphorical, of course, since I know that 'Harry' does > not really control what the Goddess JR Rowlings writes, nor what > MOGULS ultimately decide to do with their lives! > > vedic astrology, " Haresh \(Harry\) Nathani " > <haresh1405@ ...> wrote: > > > > Dear Devendra and all, > > > > It seems that the scientist must have had some unpleasent > experience with astrolgers or his 9th house may be having those > planets which makes the native see astrology as supertitious. > > > > We of course are influnced by the planets in the orbit. Our > actions, our tastes, our mind, our relationships, our intelligence > and many more are influenced by the planets. If that is not the case > then why would there be any kind of disparity between all > individuals, why our thoughts are different, why do we think > differently & not similarly like all. > > > > Astrology is merely not limited to predicting various events in our > lives, it is also a guide which shows us how our past, present > &  future will look like and how best can we adapt ourselves to those > kind of situations, circumstances & events which have influenced us > also the events which will be going to influence us in our > respective lives. > > > > The fact that u have posted this query, I am certain u r not a > astrloger. > > > >  > > GOD BLESS YOU > > WITH WARM REGARDS > > HARESH(HARRY) NATHANI > > VEDIC ASTOLOGER > > VAASTU CONSULTANT > > CELL +919867214103 > > (MUMBAI,INDIA) > > > > > > please look into the article by an eminent scientist. > > > > November 4, 2006 > > Press Trust Of India > > Rourkela, February 09, 2009 > > First Published: 12:51 IST(9/2/2009) > > Last Updated: 12:54 IST(9/2/2009) > > Future lies in hands and not planets: Narlikar > > " Our future lies in our hands and not on the position of planets, " > > said eminent scientist and internationally acclaimed astro- > physicist > > Prof J V Narlikar. > > He said there was a wrong concept that planets influenced the > > future. " The planets are powerless. Stand on your own feet, know > your > > problem and try to solve it yourself. " > > The astronomer pointed out there were even differences among > > astrologers with western astrology differing from Indian astrology. > > " Astrology is not science, but superstition, he said. > > Astrologers knew that people came to them when they faced problems > > and kept them hanging so that they made repeated visits. > > Narlikar was speaking at a seminar 'Astrology-a pseudo-sience' here > > last night organised by the Orissa Rationalists Association. > > http://www.hindusta ntimes.com/ StoryPage/ Print.aspx? Id=eab5b5ad- > 2c22- > > 416f-bf1a-92a56bfd1 904 > > © Copyright 2007 Hindustan Times > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > Davendra <davendrak@ ..> > > vedic astrology > > Monday, 9 February, 2009 7:24:10 AM > > [vedic astrology] Astrology/Science? ? > > > > > > > > Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Go to > http://messenger. / invite/ > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 The following is an extract from the book " The kabala of Numbers " by SEPHARIAL. Will this be sufficient to call astrology a science " " " ------------------------- WHEN we speak of a chance event, we really express our ignorance. of the law governing the occurrence. We do not seriously assume to mean that Nature has not provided for such event, or that it had no natural causation. We speak of coincidences, as when an astrologer makes a singularly pointed prediction which afterward proves to be in line with the facts. But we must not think that ,in the use of that word we have disposed of the scientific possibility of prediction. We may take comfort in it as did the old lady in the blessed word " Mesopotamia " , but that is all that it can do for us. The use of the expression " coincidence " is a scientific statement of a fact, we assert thereby that the time. and circumstance prescribed in the prophecy coincide with the event in fulfilment-that the prediction;, in short, is true to time and nature of event. But many coincidences make a law. If some appples fell off thc trees into space, some obliquely into our neighbour's garden, and others directly to the earth, the law of gravity would never have been discovered.. Ages ago things were supposed to fall because they were heavier than air, and a good deal of suffering would have been spared the pioneer's of scientific thought had this belief been maintained. The fact, however, that all the apples fell in lines perpendicular to the tangent of the earth's circumference, i.e. in a straight line towards the earth's centre, and. that one of them coincided with the thinking-box of a. scientific man, set the whole world wondering. The attraction of gravitation had been discovered. Modern science has said much which is contrary to the Principia of Newton. Today it has stumbled up against certain phenomena which seem to indicate that, after all, it may not be the attraction of gravitation that does these things. The facts do not answer to the theory of attraction. When it is seen that intermolecular ether is negative to spatial ether it may be found convenient to look at the obverse side of the door, and, instead of reading " pull " , the scientist may find " push " as an answer to his question. In other words, bodies rnay be impelled towards the earth by the " push " of spatial ether, instead of being drawn to the earth by the " pull " of the earth's mass. So much, then, for the argument from coincidence. Suppose that, instead of relegating everything we do not understand to the domain of chance, we endeavour to seek a law which shall not only include the facts but render the prediction of others of a similar nature possible. .1 will hazard a suggestion which may form a working basis for an intelligible theory of prediction. We have already viewed the universe as the personality or embodiment of a Creative Power. We have seen that it is a symbol, and that it answers to a system of physiognomy by which we have learned something concerning the character of the Creator whose forces eusoul it. Let us, then, regard the universe as man. The Rosicrucians so regarded it, and called it Adam Kadmon; Swedenborg called it the Grand Man, the Macroprosopus. The astrologers have for many ages related the encircling zodiac to the zones or divisions of the human body. Aries they found to correspond to the head, Taurus to the neck, Gemini to the arms, and so down to the feet, which correspond to. Pisces. " As above, so below " the great is reflected in the small. The circle of the zodiac has its mundane relations. An empiricism continued through many centuries determined the signs corresponding to various areas of the earth, to territories, kingdoms, cities, and towns. The method employed was that of the scientific experimentalist. Here is a toxine ; let us see what effect it will have when injected. The experiment yields certain results, and research is made for an antidote, something that will n_utralize the action of the poison. Or, a bacteriologist makes a culture of germs and studies their effects upon animalbodies. He also experiments on the culture itself to & scertain what medium favours the development of the germs, and what tends to sterilize the medium and render it fatal to the development of the germs. Then, by empirical means, he has two great facts before him: (a) that certain germ cultures produce certain morbid conditions in animal bodies, and (b) that certain media neutralize the action of these germs. The astrologers followed the same method. They observed the effects following immediately upon the ingress of the various planets into the signs of the zodiac, and what happened during the stay of the planet in each sign. They determined the specific natures of the planets and their modifications by a careful and patient empiricism. Then the deductive method was more extensively employed, and, from like causes, like effects were anticipated. A retrospective calculation gave them the means of ascertaining the past effects of planetary ..positions, while a prospective calculation enabled them to predict what might reasonably be expected from identical causes in the future. When two clouds are electrified, one becomes negative to the other, they rush together, and their impact produces thunder; while the discharge of electricity produces lightning, as if the terminals of a battery were brought together. The lightning flash is only a big spark. Now, the astrologers had already discovered that Mars was a positive planet and a heat producer, while Saturn was a negative planet and a cold producer. They were naturally curious to observe what effects would transpire when these planets were in conjunction, i.e. in the same part of the heavens as seen from the Earth's centre. There were two means open to them, one being to " wait and see " , the other retrospection. By a combination of the known orbital motions of the two bodies, they were able to construct a table of the past conjunctions of these planets through the entire circle of the zodiac. Astronomy, chronology, and history conspired to the result, and the effects of the conjunctions of Mars and Saturn in the successive signs of the zodiac were predicable in a general manner for all time. Needless to say they were of an adverse, and most frequently, of a violent, nature. . There is a conjunction of these planets every alternate year, the conjunction falling in the next sign on each occasion; so that in 265 years it performs nine revolutions, and comes nearly to the same place in the zodiac. If we trace the ,conjunction through recent years, we find a singular uniformity of ill effects attending upon the countries ruled by the sign of conjunction. Sagittarius rules Spain and Italy, the opposition Gemini ruling the United States; Capricorn rules India, Aquarius rules Russia, Pisces rules Portugal, Aries rules England, Taurus rules Ireland, Cancer rules Scotland and Holland, Leo rules France, according to ancient observations. Let us trace some recent events: . 1897. Ndvember, Mars and Saturn conjoined in Sagittarius. Hispano-American War, 1898. 1899. December, conjunction in the same sign. King Humbert. of Italy assassinated_ 1900. 1901. December, conjunctioti in Capricorn. Bande-Mataram Agitation, 1902. 1903. December, conjunction in Aquarius. Russo-Japanese War, 1904. 1905. December, again in Aquarius. Russian Revolt, 1906. " Red Sunday " , 1906. 1907. December, conjunction in Pisces. Assassination of King and Crown Prince of Portugal, 1908,; Followed by Revolution. 1909. December, conjunction in Aries. Death of King Edward VII, 1910. Democratic Ascendancy, 1910. 1911. August, conjunction in Taurus. 1913. August, conjunction in Gemini. What we may expect to follow will best be defined by reference to the past effects of similar positions. The last conjunction in Taurus was 1881. This was the year of the Agrarian outrage in Ireland, and the murder of Burke and Cavendish in Phoenix Park. Using our greater period of 265 years, we find the following parallel: 1644. Saturn and Mars in Aries. +265 Marston Moor. Overthrow of the Royalists, 1644. --------- 1909. Democratic Ascendancy, 1910. Death of King Edward, 1910. 1646. Saturn and Mars in Taurus. +265 The Irish Rebellion, 1646. 1911. The Irish Protest, 1911. 1648. Saturn and Mars in Gemini. +265 London invested by Cromwell, 1648 King Charles. in flight. The House of Lords abolished, 1648 King Charles beheaded, 1649. ----------- 1913. 1650. Saturn and Mars in Cancer. +265 Great Floods in Holland, 1650. Scotland invaded and reduced by Cromwell,1650. --------- 1915. The question now arises, what connection have planetary periods with numerology? In a general sense they tend to establish the physiognomy of Nature as . a scientific study. If the powers that be elect to signal us . by means of celestial phenomena,why not by numerical figures? If by planetary periods we, may trace the periodicity of events, why not by numerical sequences? What we have to remember is that there is no such thing as chance in a universe controlled by law. We have to reduce all our observations to a statement which, if not conformable to any known law, is at least not in conflict with such laws as we know. A law should include all the facts. A theory should be sufficiently elastic to admit new observations. An intelligent theory of the universe leaves room for variety of interpretation.------------- " " N.Balasubramanian, - Rohiniranjan vedic astrology Monday, February 09, 2009 9:48 AM [vedic astrology] Re: Astrology/Science?? Gauravji: I sure hope and pray that some of the modern teenagers are not reading your message! In these days of instant gratification, even in the field of remedial astrology, there is no need to do any " ghotaa-ghati " for 'ghotonaa' to take place! Amazing ads in astrology magazines and TV of course! I saw an interesting hindi movie the other day called Kismet Konnection or some similar name! Kind of pithy once you bite hard and dig deeply into it! vedic astrology , " " <gaurav.ghosh wrote: > > ||Jai Ramakrishna|| > Dear Friend Davendra, > Shri Ramakrishna used to say " Shudhu " Siddhi " " Siddhi " bolley toh > nesha hobey na, Siddhi aano, ghoto, khaao...taahole toh nesha hobey > (meaning; One doesn't get intoxicated by only uttering " Siddhi " ,or > " Bhaang " ; You will only get intoxicated once you prepare & drink it). > Similarly, Scientists should first test the whether Astrology is a > superstition or pseudo-Science or Combination of Arts(Application of > Theories) & Science(theory itself) & then comment on it. > Thank you, > . > http://gauravastro.150m.com > > > vedic astrology , " Rohiniranjan " > <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > Astrology may not be a science -- and I have no quarrels with that > > concept! > > > > But is Dr. Narlikar -- whose scientific findings were refuted > > eventually or modified at least -- an astrologer? Is he qualified to > > make that kind of judgment against astrology? > > > > I rest my case ;-) > > > > Rohiniranjan > > > > vedic astrology , " Davendra " <davendrak@> > > wrote: > > > > > > please look into the article by an eminent scientist. > > > > > > > > > November 4, 2006 > > > Press Trust Of India > > > Rourkela, February 09, 2009 > > > First Published: 12:51 IST(9/2/2009) > > > Last Updated: 12:54 IST(9/2/2009) > > > Future lies in hands and not planets: Narlikar > > > " Our future lies in our hands and not on the position of planets, " > > > said eminent scientist and internationally acclaimed astro- > > physicist > > > Prof J V Narlikar. > > > He said there was a wrong concept that planets influenced the > > > future. " The planets are powerless. Stand on your own feet, know > > your > > > problem and try to solve it yourself. " > > > The astronomer pointed out there were even differences among > > > astrologers with western astrology differing from Indian astrology. > > > " Astrology is not science, but superstition, he said. > > > Astrologers knew that people came to them when they faced problems > > > and kept them hanging so that they made repeated visits. > > > Narlikar was speaking at a seminar 'Astrology-a pseudo-sience' here > > > last night organised by the Orissa Rationalists Association. > > > http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/Print.aspx?Id=eab5b5ad- 2c22- > > > 416f-bf1a-92a56bfd1904 > > > © Copyright 2007 Hindustan Times > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 I totally agree. I believe in " Never blame astrology but the astrologer " . But at the same time, astrology is such an ocean, that too a complex ocean, person who really gets to the depths of it, I wonder, will he/she remain a normal human? I feel after going to that depth, they reform like saints with no attachments to any of the earthly desires. I rarely heard about such people, rather yogis, who are not known to anyone, yet predict stuff to people randomly, with no expectations. As such, in my personal experience, I have had some questions and have been to 3 topnotch astrologers, all of them predicted almost the same, but surprisingly, none of it is happening, rather the total reverse is happening or gonna happen (as per the current trends). Yet I dont blame them or thier calculations, whatever they said might have been true, but I believe there is something fundamentally wrong in the calculations or the system being used somewhere, maybe that's why even some of the world-famous astrologers also fail to predict 100% perfect. --- On Tue, 2/10/09, Haresh (Harry) Nathani <haresh1405 wrote: Haresh (Harry) Nathani <haresh1405 Re: [vedic astrology] Re: Astrology/Science?? vedic astrology Tuesday, February 10, 2009, 9:47 PM Dear RR Ji In my experience as an astrologer, I also keep doing research on each & every individual who approach me. I try my best to analyse their speech, behaviour patterns & then see the respective bhavs & the planets which makes the individual behave accordingly. All planets in our charts marks our approach to the world the way we see it. Astrological science does not fails but it is the astrologer who fails in reading & predicting ones horoscope. It is the astrologer who is responsible & to be blamed & not astrology. The placement 0f moon & its strenght in the chart rules our mind. This is where the astrologer normally fails in analysis. Astrologer or any individual with a afflicted moon will always be speculative & will always give a personal opinion rather trying to give a picture on how it should be. But u hv rightly mentioned astrology is a science & will always remain a science. GOD BLESS YOU WITH WARM REGARDS HARESH(HARRY) NATHANI VEDIC ASTOLOGER VAASTU CONSULTANT CELL +919867214103 (MUMBAI,INDIA) ____________ _________ _________ __ Rohiniranjan <jyotish_vani@ hotmail.com> vedic astrology Wednesday, 11 February, 2009 7:38:15 AM [vedic astrology] Re: Astrology/Science? ? Dear Mr.. Nathani, While I respect your passionate stand in this matter, by *summarily* dismissing what Narlikar or the previous scientists (Sagan for instance) or the next scientist states about astrology based on their casual brush with a discipline that has kept some fairly cerebral people raptly absorbed for many many years and perhaps lifetimes -- we would be simply falling in the same rank and style as him or other 'rationalists' . I think instead of presenting a slogan (e.g., Astrology is not science and bunk!) with a counter-slogan ( " Astrology is a science and has always been ... " ), both sides would have to forward illustrations and arguments to justify their positions. And that takes a lot of time and dedication so then becomes a personal choice for each proponent and opponent! In that vein, I would applaud the contribution of Seymore and of Eysenck and Nias. I am certain all who believe that astrology is science have read these short offerings even if these may not be directly based in jyotish. RR vedic astrology, " Haresh \(Harry\) Nathani " <haresh1405@ ...> wrote: > >  Dear Mr. RR Ji > > We should dismiss him summarily. The fact will always remain that Jyotish Shashtra is science & not fiction or art. If Jyotish Shahshtra has got such a huge milage & acceptablity since 3 yugas, it is because it is science. > > Rishi Parasher took almost seven births in this universe to understand & experience the practical acceptablity of Jyotish Shahshtra, but we are the most unfortunate, some Jyotish authors have not understood the message of Rishi Parasher & speculatively have given their own personal opinions without trying to understand the effect of it on the neophytes. >  > GOD BLESS YOU > WITH WARM REGARDS > HARESH(HARRY) NATHANI > VEDIC ASTOLOGER > VAASTU CONSULTANT > CELL +919867214103 > (MUMBAI,INDIA) > http://groups. / group/Jyotish_ Remedies/ database > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > Rohiniranjan <jyotish_vani@ ...> > vedic astrology > Monday, 9 February, 2009 12:23:33 PM > [vedic astrology] Re: Astrology/Science? ? > > > Mr. Haresh (Harry) Nathani, > > Since you addressed your posting to <all> ... > > I think Dr.. Narlikar has had a pretty productive life, scientifically > and otherwise so let us not presume that he has anything personal > against astrology! > > Perhaps, unless I am frightfully wrong, he does not even know or care > to know about this forum or the two or three other jyotish fora that > we all frequent. > > While your personal passion for astrology as expressed is understood > and reciprocated amicably -- there have been jyotishi-astrophyic ists > like Mr. Jha who have been questioning the MATH and astro- coordinates > that the great body of astrologers have been utilizing for decades > and perhaps centuries! > > What is your opinion? Should we listen to what Mr. Vinay Jha has to > say or do we dismiss him summarily? > > The 'YOU' is metaphorical, of course, since I know that 'Harry' does > not really control what the Goddess JR Rowlings writes, nor what > MOGULS ultimately decide to do with their lives! > > vedic astrology, " Haresh \(Harry\) Nathani " > <haresh1405@ ...> wrote: > > > > Dear Devendra and all, > > > > It seems that the scientist must have had some unpleasent > experience with astrolgers or his 9th house may be having those > planets which makes the native see astrology as supertitious. > > > > We of course are influnced by the planets in the orbit. Our > actions, our tastes, our mind, our relationships, our intelligence > and many more are influenced by the planets. If that is not the case > then why would there be any kind of disparity between all > individuals, why our thoughts are different, why do we think > differently & not similarly like all. > > > > Astrology is merely not limited to predicting various events in our > lives, it is also a guide which shows us how our past, present > &  future will look like and how best can we adapt ourselves to those > kind of situations, circumstances & events which have influenced us > also the events which will be going to influence us in our > respective lives. > > > > The fact that u have posted this query, I am certain u r not a > astrloger. > > > >  > > GOD BLESS YOU > > WITH WARM REGARDS > > HARESH(HARRY) NATHANI > > VEDIC ASTOLOGER > > VAASTU CONSULTANT > > CELL +919867214103 > > (MUMBAI,INDIA) > > > > > > please look into the article by an eminent scientist. > > > > November 4, 2006 > > Press Trust Of India > > Rourkela, February 09, 2009 > > First Published: 12:51 IST(9/2/2009) > > Last Updated: 12:54 IST(9/2/2009) > > Future lies in hands and not planets: Narlikar > > " Our future lies in our hands and not on the position of planets, " > > said eminent scientist and internationally acclaimed astro- > physicist > > Prof J V Narlikar. > > He said there was a wrong concept that planets influenced the > > future. " The planets are powerless. Stand on your own feet, know > your > > problem and try to solve it yourself. " > > The astronomer pointed out there were even differences among > > astrologers with western astrology differing from Indian astrology. > > " Astrology is not science, but superstition, he said. > > Astrologers knew that people came to them when they faced problems > > and kept them hanging so that they made repeated visits. > > Narlikar was speaking at a seminar 'Astrology-a pseudo-sience' here > > last night organised by the Orissa Rationalists Association. > > http://www.hindusta ntimes.com/ StoryPage/ Print.aspx? Id=eab5b5ad- > 2c22- > > 416f-bf1a-92a56bfd1 904 > > © Copyright 2007 Hindustan Times > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > Davendra <davendrak@ ..> > > vedic astrology > > Monday, 9 February, 2009 7:24:10 AM > > [vedic astrology] Astrology/Science? ? > > > > > > > > Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Go to > http://messenger. / invite/ > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 I fail to see how the performance of astrology can be separated from the performance of the astrologer? We are talking about " science and scientific " here but then we say in the same breath people are saying that they have 'faith' in astrology. Based on what evidence? :-) I hope it makes sense...! RR vedic astrology , serenity forever <serenity_forever4 wrote: > > I totally agree. I believe in " Never blame astrology but the astrologer " . But at the same time, astrology is such an ocean, that too a complex ocean, person who really gets to the depths of it, I wonder, will he/she remain a normal human? I feel after going to that depth, they reform like saints with no attachments to any of the earthly desires. I rarely heard about such people, rather yogis, who are not known to anyone, yet predict stuff to people randomly, with no expectations. > > As such, in my personal experience, I have had some questions and have been to 3 topnotch astrologers, all of them predicted almost the same, but surprisingly, none of it is happening, rather the total reverse is happening or gonna happen (as per the current trends). Yet I dont blame them or thier calculations, whatever they said might have been true, but I believe there is something fundamentally wrong in the calculations or the system being used somewhere, maybe that's why even some of the world-famous astrologers also fail to predict 100% perfect. > > > --- On Tue, 2/10/09, Haresh (Harry) Nathani <haresh1405 wrote: > > Haresh (Harry) Nathani <haresh1405 > Re: [vedic astrology] Re: Astrology/Science?? > vedic astrology > Tuesday, February 10, 2009, 9:47 PM Dear RR Ji > > In my experience as an astrologer, I also keep doing research on each & every individual who approach me. I try my best to analyse their speech, behaviour patterns & then see the respective bhavs & the planets which makes the individual behave accordingly. > > All planets in our charts marks our approach to the world the way we see it. Astrological science does not fails but it is the astrologer who fails in reading & predicting ones horoscope. It is the astrologer who is responsible & to be blamed & not astrology. > > The placement 0f moon & its strenght in the chart rules our mind. This is where the astrologer normally fails in analysis. Astrologer or any individual with a afflicted moon will always be speculative & will always give a personal opinion rather trying to give a picture on how it should be. > > But u hv rightly mentioned astrology is a science & will always remain a science. > > GOD BLESS YOU > WITH WARM REGARDS > HARESH(HARRY) NATHANI > VEDIC ASTOLOGER > VAASTU CONSULTANT > CELL +919867214103 > (MUMBAI,INDIA) > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > Rohiniranjan <jyotish_vani@ hotmail.com> > vedic astrology > Wednesday, 11 February, 2009 7:38:15 AM > [vedic astrology] Re: Astrology/Science? ? > > Dear Mr.. Nathani, > > While I respect your passionate stand in this matter, by *summarily* > dismissing what Narlikar or the previous scientists (Sagan for > instance) or the next scientist states about astrology based on their > casual brush with a discipline that has kept some fairly cerebral > people raptly absorbed for many many years and perhaps lifetimes -- > we would be simply falling in the same rank and style as him or > other 'rationalists' . > > I think instead of presenting a slogan (e.g., Astrology is not > science and bunk!) with a counter-slogan ( " Astrology is a science and > has always been ... " ), both sides would have to forward illustrations > and arguments to justify their positions. And that takes a lot of > time and dedication so then becomes a personal choice for each > proponent and opponent! > > In that vein, I would applaud the contribution of Seymore and of > Eysenck and Nias. I am certain all who believe that astrology is > science have read these short offerings even if these may not be > directly based in jyotish. > > RR > > vedic astrology, " Haresh \(Harry\) Nathani " > <haresh1405@ ...> wrote: > > > >  Dear Mr. RR Ji > > > > We should dismiss him summarily. The fact will always remain that > Jyotish Shashtra is science & not fiction or art. If Jyotish > Shahshtra has got such a huge milage & acceptablity since 3 yugas, it > is because it is science. > > > > Rishi Parasher took almost seven births in this universe > to understand & experience the practical acceptablity of Jyotish > Shahshtra, but we are the most unfortunate, some Jyotish authors have > not understood the message of Rishi Parasher & speculatively have > given their own personal opinions without trying to understand the > effect of it on the neophytes. > >  > > GOD BLESS YOU > > WITH WARM REGARDS > > HARESH(HARRY) NATHANI > > VEDIC ASTOLOGER > > VAASTU CONSULTANT > > CELL +919867214103 > > (MUMBAI,INDIA) > > http://groups. / group/Jyotish_ Remedies/ database > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > Rohiniranjan <jyotish_vani@ ...> > > vedic astrology > > Monday, 9 February, 2009 12:23:33 PM > > [vedic astrology] Re: Astrology/Science? ? > > > > > > Mr. Haresh (Harry) Nathani, > > > > Since you addressed your posting to <all> ... > > > > I think Dr.. Narlikar has had a pretty productive life, > scientifically > > and otherwise so let us not presume that he has anything personal > > against astrology! > > > > Perhaps, unless I am frightfully wrong, he does not even know or > care > > to know about this forum or the two or three other jyotish fora > that > > we all frequent. > > > > While your personal passion for astrology as expressed is > understood > > and reciprocated amicably -- there have been jyotishi-astrophyic > ists > > like Mr. Jha who have been questioning the MATH and astro- > coordinates > > that the great body of astrologers have been utilizing for decades > > and perhaps centuries! > > > > What is your opinion? Should we listen to what Mr. Vinay Jha has to > > say or do we dismiss him summarily? > > > > The 'YOU' is metaphorical, of course, since I know that 'Harry' > does > > not really control what the Goddess JR Rowlings writes, nor what > > MOGULS ultimately decide to do with their lives! > > > > vedic astrology, " Haresh \(Harry\) > Nathani " > > <haresh1405@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Devendra and all, > > > > > > It seems that the scientist must have had some unpleasent > > experience with astrolgers or his 9th house may be having those > > planets which makes the native see astrology as supertitious. > > > > > > We of course are influnced by the planets in the orbit. Our > > actions, our tastes, our mind, our relationships, our intelligence > > and many more are influenced by the planets. If that is not the > case > > then why would there be any kind of disparity between all > > individuals, why our thoughts are different, why do we think > > differently & not similarly like all. > > > > > > Astrology is merely not limited to predicting various events in > our > > lives, it is also a guide which shows us how our past, present > > &  future will look like and how best can we adapt ourselves to > those > > kind of situations, circumstances & events which have influenced us > > also the events which will be going to influence us in our > > respective lives. > > > > > > The fact that u have posted this query, I am certain u r not a > > astrloger. > > > > > >  > > > GOD BLESS YOU > > > WITH WARM REGARDS > > > HARESH(HARRY) NATHANI > > > VEDIC ASTOLOGER > > > VAASTU CONSULTANT > > > CELL +919867214103 > > > (MUMBAI,INDIA) > > > > > > > > > please look into the article by an eminent scientist. > > > > > > November 4, 2006 > > > Press Trust Of India > > > Rourkela, February 09, 2009 > > > First Published: 12:51 IST(9/2/2009) > > > Last Updated: 12:54 IST(9/2/2009) > > > Future lies in hands and not planets: Narlikar > > > " Our future lies in our hands and not on the position of > planets, " > > > said eminent scientist and internationally acclaimed astro- > > physicist > > > Prof J V Narlikar. > > > He said there was a wrong concept that planets influenced the > > > future. " The planets are powerless. Stand on your own feet, know > > your > > > problem and try to solve it yourself. " > > > The astronomer pointed out there were even differences among > > > astrologers with western astrology differing from Indian > astrology. > > > " Astrology is not science, but superstition, he said. > > > Astrologers knew that people came to them when they faced > problems > > > and kept them hanging so that they made repeated visits. > > > Narlikar was speaking at a seminar 'Astrology-a pseudo-sience' > here > > > last night organised by the Orissa Rationalists Association. > > > http://www.hindusta ntimes.com/ StoryPage/ Print.aspx? > Id=eab5b5ad- > > 2c22- > > > 416f-bf1a-92a56bfd1 904 > > > © Copyright 2007 Hindustan Times > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > Davendra <davendrak@ ..> > > > vedic astrology > > > Monday, 9 February, 2009 7:24:10 AM > > > [vedic astrology] Astrology/Science? ? > > > > > > > > > > > > Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Go to > > http://messenger. / invite/ > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 Umm.. lest another *lunar* confusion arises (so soon after lunar eclipse) and a rumour gets started carelessly: I never said what you implied in your last sentence! It was someone else who said that astrology is a science. Not me ;-) RR vedic astrology , " Haresh \(Harry\) Nathani " <haresh1405 wrote: > > Dear RR Ji > > In my experience as an astrologer, I also keep doing research on each & every individual who approach me. I try my best to analyse their speech, behaviour  patterns & then see the respective bhavs & the planets which makes the individual behave accordingly. > > All planets in our charts marks our approach to the world the way we see it. Astrological science does not fails but it is the astrologer who fails in reading & predicting ones horoscope. It is the astrologer who is responsible & to be blamed & not astrology. > > The placement 0f moon & its strenght in the chart rules our mind. This is where the astrologer normally fails in analysis. Astrologer or any individual with a afflicted moon will always be speculative & will always give a personal opinion rather trying to give a picture on how it should be. > > But u hv rightly mentioned astrology is a science & will always remain a science. >  > GOD BLESS YOU > WITH WARM REGARDS > HARESH(HARRY)NATHANI > VEDIC ASTOLOGER > VAASTU CONSULTANT > CELL +919867214103 > (MUMBAI,INDIA) >  > > > > ________________________________ > Rohiniranjan <jyotish_vani > vedic astrology > Wednesday, 11 February, 2009 7:38:15 AM > [vedic astrology] Re: Astrology/Science?? > > > Dear Mr.. Nathani, > > While I respect your passionate stand in this matter, by *summarily* > dismissing what Narlikar or the previous scientists (Sagan for > instance) or the next scientist states about astrology based on their > casual brush with a discipline that has kept some fairly cerebral > people raptly absorbed for many many years and perhaps lifetimes -- > we would be simply falling in the same rank and style as him or > other 'rationalists' . > > I think instead of presenting a slogan (e.g., Astrology is not > science and bunk!) with a counter-slogan ( " Astrology is a science and > has always been ... " ), both sides would have to forward illustrations > and arguments to justify their positions. And that takes a lot of > time and dedication so then becomes a personal choice for each > proponent and opponent! > > In that vein, I would applaud the contribution of Seymore and of > Eysenck and Nias. I am certain all who believe that astrology is > science have read these short offerings even if these may not be > directly based in jyotish. > > RR > > vedic astrology, " Haresh \(Harry\) Nathani " > <haresh1405@ ...> wrote: > > > >  Dear Mr. RR Ji > > > > We should dismiss him summarily. The fact will always remain that > Jyotish Shashtra is science & not fiction or art. If Jyotish > Shahshtra has got such a huge milage & acceptablity since 3 yugas, it > is because it is science. > > > > Rishi Parasher took almost seven births in this universe > to understand & experience the practical acceptablity of Jyotish > Shahshtra, but we are the most unfortunate, some Jyotish authors have > not understood the message of Rishi Parasher & speculatively have > given their own personal opinions without trying to understand the > effect of it on the neophytes. > >  > > GOD BLESS YOU > > WITH WARM REGARDS > > HARESH(HARRY) NATHANI > > VEDIC ASTOLOGER > > VAASTU CONSULTANT > > CELL +919867214103 > > (MUMBAI,INDIA) > > http://groups. / group/Jyotish_ Remedies/ database > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > Rohiniranjan <jyotish_vani@ ...> > > vedic astrology > > Monday, 9 February, 2009 12:23:33 PM > > [vedic astrology] Re: Astrology/Science? ? > > > > > > Mr. Haresh (Harry) Nathani, > > > > Since you addressed your posting to <all> ... > > > > I think Dr.. Narlikar has had a pretty productive life, > scientifically > > and otherwise so let us not presume that he has anything personal > > against astrology! > > > > Perhaps, unless I am frightfully wrong, he does not even know or > care > > to know about this forum or the two or three other jyotish fora > that > > we all frequent. > > > > While your personal passion for astrology as expressed is > understood > > and reciprocated amicably -- there have been jyotishi-astrophyic > ists > > like Mr. Jha who have been questioning the MATH and astro- > coordinates > > that the great body of astrologers have been utilizing for decades > > and perhaps centuries! > > > > What is your opinion? Should we listen to what Mr. Vinay Jha has to > > say or do we dismiss him summarily? > > > > The 'YOU' is metaphorical, of course, since I know that 'Harry' > does > > not really control what the Goddess JR Rowlings writes, nor what > > MOGULS ultimately decide to do with their lives! > > > > vedic astrology, " Haresh \(Harry\) > Nathani " > > <haresh1405@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Devendra and all, > > > > > > It seems that the scientist must have had some unpleasent > > experience with astrolgers or his 9th house may be having those > > planets which makes the native see astrology as supertitious. > > > > > > We of course are influnced by the planets in the orbit. Our > > actions, our tastes, our mind, our relationships, our intelligence > > and many more are influenced by the planets. If that is not the > case > > then why would there be any kind of disparity between all > > individuals, why our thoughts are different, why do we think > > differently & not similarly like all. > > > > > > Astrology is merely not limited to predicting various events in > our > > lives, it is also a guide which shows us how our past, present > > &  future will look like and how best can we adapt ourselves to > those > > kind of situations, circumstances & events which have influenced us > > also the events which will be going to influence us in our > > respective lives. > > > > > > The fact that u have posted this query, I am certain u r not a > > astrloger. > > > > > >  > > > GOD BLESS YOU > > > WITH WARM REGARDS > > > HARESH(HARRY) NATHANI > > > VEDIC ASTOLOGER > > > VAASTU CONSULTANT > > > CELL +919867214103 > > > (MUMBAI,INDIA) > > > > > > > > > please look into the article by an eminent scientist. > > > > > > November 4, 2006 > > > Press Trust Of India > > > Rourkela, February 09, 2009 > > > First Published: 12:51 IST(9/2/2009) > > > Last Updated: 12:54 IST(9/2/2009) > > > Future lies in hands and not planets: Narlikar > > > " Our future lies in our hands and not on the position of > planets, " > > > said eminent scientist and internationally acclaimed astro- > > physicist > > > Prof J V Narlikar. > > > He said there was a wrong concept that planets influenced the > > > future. " The planets are powerless. Stand on your own feet, know > > your > > > problem and try to solve it yourself. " > > > The astronomer pointed out there were even differences among > > > astrologers with western astrology differing from Indian > astrology. > > > " Astrology is not science, but superstition, he said. > > > Astrologers knew that people came to them when they faced > problems > > > and kept them hanging so that they made repeated visits. > > > Narlikar was speaking at a seminar 'Astrology-a pseudo-sience' > here > > > last night organised by the Orissa Rationalists Association. > > > http://www.hindusta ntimes.com/ StoryPage/ Print.aspx? > Id=eab5b5ad- > > 2c22- > > > 416f-bf1a-92a56bfd1 904 > > > © Copyright 2007 Hindustan Times > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > Davendra <davendrak@ ..> > > > vedic astrology > > > Monday, 9 February, 2009 7:24:10 AM > > > [vedic astrology] Astrology/Science? ? > > > > > > > > > > > > Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Go to > > http://messenger. / invite/ > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 As simple as " Computer Science is a Science, but there are students who get an A grade, B grade, C, D or F " . And especially, astrology is such a complicated science, to master it and actually get an A or A+ grade in it, might make that person renounce the physical earthly desires. That's what I have meant below. And when people say, they cant trust the astrologer, it's cuz it's mostly astrologers with B or B+, C or C+ or even D grades. (based on how many of his/her predictions come true - again this is directly proportional to how well he/she have mastered the science and applied it practically). --- On Wed, 2/11/09, Rohiniranjan <jyotish_vani wrote: Rohiniranjan <jyotish_vani [vedic astrology] Re: Astrology/Science?? vedic astrology Wednesday, February 11, 2009, 4:31 PM I fail to see how the performance of astrology can be separated from the performance of the astrologer? We are talking about " science and scientific " here but then we say in the same breath people are saying that they have 'faith' in astrology. Based on what evidence? :-) I hope it makes sense...! RR vedic astrology, serenity forever <serenity_forever4@ ...> wrote: > > I totally agree. I believe in " Never blame astrology but the astrologer " . But at the same time, astrology is such an ocean, that too a complex ocean, person who really gets to the depths of it, I wonder, will he/she remain a normal human? I feel after going to that depth, they reform like saints with no attachments to any of the earthly desires. I rarely heard about such people, rather yogis, who are not known to anyone, yet predict stuff to people randomly, with no expectations. > > As such, in my personal experience, I have had some questions and have been to 3 topnotch astrologers, all of them predicted almost the same, but surprisingly, none of it is happening, rather the total reverse is happening or gonna happen (as per the current trends). Yet I dont blame them or thier calculations, whatever they said might have been true, but I believe there is something fundamentally wrong in the calculations or the system being used somewhere, maybe that's why even some of the world-famous astrologers also fail to predict 100% perfect. > > > --- On Tue, 2/10/09, Haresh (Harry) Nathani <haresh1405@ ...> wrote: > > Haresh (Harry) Nathani <haresh1405@ ...> > Re: [vedic astrology] Re: Astrology/Science? ? > vedic astrology > Tuesday, February 10, 2009, 9:47 PM Dear RR Ji > > In my experience as an astrologer, I also keep doing research on each & every individual who approach me. I try my best to analyse their speech, behaviour patterns & then see the respective bhavs & the planets which makes the individual behave accordingly. > > All planets in our charts marks our approach to the world the way we see it. Astrological science does not fails but it is the astrologer who fails in reading & predicting ones horoscope. It is the astrologer who is responsible & to be blamed & not astrology. > > The placement 0f moon & its strenght in the chart rules our mind. This is where the astrologer normally fails in analysis. Astrologer or any individual with a afflicted moon will always be speculative & will always give a personal opinion rather trying to give a picture on how it should be. > > But u hv rightly mentioned astrology is a science & will always remain a science. > > GOD BLESS YOU > WITH WARM REGARDS > HARESH(HARRY) NATHANI > VEDIC ASTOLOGER > VAASTU CONSULTANT > CELL +919867214103 > (MUMBAI,INDIA) > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > Rohiniranjan <jyotish_vani@ hotmail.com> > vedic astrology > Wednesday, 11 February, 2009 7:38:15 AM > [vedic astrology] Re: Astrology/Science? ? > > Dear Mr.. Nathani, > > While I respect your passionate stand in this matter, by *summarily* > dismissing what Narlikar or the previous scientists (Sagan for > instance) or the next scientist states about astrology based on their > casual brush with a discipline that has kept some fairly cerebral > people raptly absorbed for many many years and perhaps lifetimes -- > we would be simply falling in the same rank and style as him or > other 'rationalists' . > > I think instead of presenting a slogan (e.g., Astrology is not > science and bunk!) with a counter-slogan ( " Astrology is a science and > has always been ... " ), both sides would have to forward illustrations > and arguments to justify their positions. And that takes a lot of > time and dedication so then becomes a personal choice for each > proponent and opponent! > > In that vein, I would applaud the contribution of Seymore and of > Eysenck and Nias. I am certain all who believe that astrology is > science have read these short offerings even if these may not be > directly based in jyotish. > > RR > > vedic astrology, " Haresh \(Harry\) Nathani " > <haresh1405@ ...> wrote: > > > >  Dear Mr. RR Ji > > > > We should dismiss him summarily. The fact will always remain that > Jyotish Shashtra is science & not fiction or art. If Jyotish > Shahshtra has got such a huge milage & acceptablity since 3 yugas, it > is because it is science. > > > > Rishi Parasher took almost seven births in this universe > to understand & experience the practical acceptablity of Jyotish > Shahshtra, but we are the most unfortunate, some Jyotish authors have > not understood the message of Rishi Parasher & speculatively have > given their own personal opinions without trying to understand the > effect of it on the neophytes. > >  > > GOD BLESS YOU > > WITH WARM REGARDS > > HARESH(HARRY) NATHANI > > VEDIC ASTOLOGER > > VAASTU CONSULTANT > > CELL +919867214103 > > (MUMBAI,INDIA) > > http://groups. / group/Jyotish_ Remedies/ database > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > Rohiniranjan <jyotish_vani@ ...> > > vedic astrology > > Monday, 9 February, 2009 12:23:33 PM > > [vedic astrology] Re: Astrology/Science? ? > > > > > > Mr. Haresh (Harry) Nathani, > > > > Since you addressed your posting to <all> ... > > > > I think Dr.. Narlikar has had a pretty productive life, > scientifically > > and otherwise so let us not presume that he has anything personal > > against astrology! > > > > Perhaps, unless I am frightfully wrong, he does not even know or > care > > to know about this forum or the two or three other jyotish fora > that > > we all frequent. > > > > While your personal passion for astrology as expressed is > understood > > and reciprocated amicably -- there have been jyotishi-astrophyic > ists > > like Mr. Jha who have been questioning the MATH and astro- > coordinates > > that the great body of astrologers have been utilizing for decades > > and perhaps centuries! > > > > What is your opinion? Should we listen to what Mr. Vinay Jha has to > > say or do we dismiss him summarily? > > > > The 'YOU' is metaphorical, of course, since I know that 'Harry' > does > > not really control what the Goddess JR Rowlings writes, nor what > > MOGULS ultimately decide to do with their lives! > > > > vedic astrology, " Haresh \(Harry\) > Nathani " > > <haresh1405@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Devendra and all, > > > > > > It seems that the scientist must have had some unpleasent > > experience with astrolgers or his 9th house may be having those > > planets which makes the native see astrology as supertitious. > > > > > > We of course are influnced by the planets in the orbit. Our > > actions, our tastes, our mind, our relationships, our intelligence > > and many more are influenced by the planets. If that is not the > case > > then why would there be any kind of disparity between all > > individuals, why our thoughts are different, why do we think > > differently & not similarly like all. > > > > > > Astrology is merely not limited to predicting various events in > our > > lives, it is also a guide which shows us how our past, present > > &  future will look like and how best can we adapt ourselves to > those > > kind of situations, circumstances & events which have influenced us > > also the events which will be going to influence us in our > > respective lives. > > > > > > The fact that u have posted this query, I am certain u r not a > > astrloger. > > > > > >  > > > GOD BLESS YOU > > > WITH WARM REGARDS > > > HARESH(HARRY) NATHANI > > > VEDIC ASTOLOGER > > > VAASTU CONSULTANT > > > CELL +919867214103 > > > (MUMBAI,INDIA) > > > > > > > > > please look into the article by an eminent scientist. > > > > > > November 4, 2006 > > > Press Trust Of India > > > Rourkela, February 09, 2009 > > > First Published: 12:51 IST(9/2/2009) > > > Last Updated: 12:54 IST(9/2/2009) > > > Future lies in hands and not planets: Narlikar > > > " Our future lies in our hands and not on the position of > planets, " > > > said eminent scientist and internationally acclaimed astro- > > physicist > > > Prof J V Narlikar. > > > He said there was a wrong concept that planets influenced the > > > future. " The planets are powerless. Stand on your own feet, know > > your > > > problem and try to solve it yourself. " > > > The astronomer pointed out there were even differences among > > > astrologers with western astrology differing from Indian > astrology. > > > " Astrology is not science, but superstition, he said. > > > Astrologers knew that people came to them when they faced > problems > > > and kept them hanging so that they made repeated visits. > > > Narlikar was speaking at a seminar 'Astrology-a pseudo-sience' > here > > > last night organised by the Orissa Rationalists Association. > > > http://www.hindusta ntimes.com/ StoryPage/ Print.aspx? > Id=eab5b5ad- > > 2c22- > > > 416f-bf1a-92a56bfd1 904 > > > © Copyright 2007 Hindustan Times > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > Davendra <davendrak@ ..> > > > vedic astrology > > > Monday, 9 February, 2009 7:24:10 AM > > > [vedic astrology] Astrology/Science? ? > > > > > > > > > > > > Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Go to > > http://messenger. / invite/ > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 The 'model' that you are using would make sense to most who live in the worldly realm of computer science, medical science, engineering science and business science or even political science, but astrology is different: There is no regulatory body (though many claim to be!) that standardizes what an astrologer must know or how they must be certified! Heck there is not even a standard school or board like physicians or engineers have or even electricians and other technicians for that matter. There is no way of examining, questioning as to how much of the uncanny predictions arise from a strict use and following of technical astrology and how much of it involves other less scientific but effective psychic processes and yogic sadhanas! One of the generally regarded as successful (not 100% mind you...!) astrologer in a message and sharing on an earlier jyotish list shared that he took a chart to bed and did japams as he considered the chart visually and in his head and ultimately the answer popped. Even if it were then definable and describable by astrological rules, it was not a logical or astrological deduction but just a post-hoc confirmation that astrological rules work retrospectively. But when an astrologer is faced with multiple possibilities, often what gets tuned-into and picked on is para-astrological. To my way of observing, DiVINATION is perfect and completely fool proof, but it is way beyond just astrology or other technical approaches adopted. Astrology is great and most appealing to the rational thought but let us not lose its link with divination which is what the nativity wants to receive. That may be the reason why astrologer, even famous ones fail and are not 100% correct as no astrologer ever claims or has demonstrated to my recollection over the last several years that I have been following astrology from different distances and perspectives and hopefully will continue to... A wise friend, as I have written earlier on the web and elsewhere stated very succinctly and down to earth: Divination is a bird which has two wings: Technique and intuition. Take away one of the wings and the bird will just flop haplessly around and around but never get off the *ground*. vedic astrology , serenity forever <serenity_forever4 wrote: > > As simple as " Computer Science is a Science, but there are students who get an A grade, B grade, C, D or F " . > > And especially, astrology is such a complicated science, to master it and actually get an A or A+ grade in it, might make that person renounce the physical earthly desires. That's what I have meant below. > > And when people say, they cant trust the astrologer, it's cuz it's mostly astrologers with B or B+, C or C+ or even D grades. (based on how many of his/her predictions come true - again this is directly proportional to how well he/she have mastered the science and applied it practically). > > --- On Wed, 2/11/09, Rohiniranjan <jyotish_vani wrote: > > Rohiniranjan <jyotish_vani > [vedic astrology] Re: Astrology/Science?? > vedic astrology > Wednesday, February 11, 2009, 4:31 PM I fail to see how the performance of astrology can be separated from > the performance of the astrologer? > > We are talking about " science and scientific " here but then we say in > the same breath people are saying that they have 'faith' in > astrology. Based on what evidence? :-) > > I hope it makes sense...! > > RR > > vedic astrology, serenity forever > <serenity_forever4@ ...> wrote: > > > > I totally agree. I believe in " Never blame astrology but the > astrologer " . But at the same time, astrology is such an ocean, that > too a complex ocean, person who really gets to the depths of it, I > wonder, will he/she remain a normal human? I feel after going to that > depth, they reform like saints with no attachments to any of the > earthly desires. I rarely heard about such people, rather yogis, who > are not known to anyone, yet predict stuff to people randomly, with > no expectations. > > > > As such, in my personal experience, I have had some questions and > have been to 3 topnotch astrologers, all of them predicted almost the > same, but surprisingly, none of it is happening, rather the total > reverse is happening or gonna happen (as per the current trends). Yet > I dont blame them or thier calculations, whatever they said might > have been true, but I believe there is something fundamentally wrong > in the calculations or the system being used somewhere, maybe that's > why even some of the world-famous astrologers also fail to predict > 100% perfect. > > > > > > --- On Tue, 2/10/09, Haresh (Harry) Nathani <haresh1405@ ...> wrote: > > > > Haresh (Harry) Nathani <haresh1405@ ...> > > Re: [vedic astrology] Re: Astrology/Science? ? > > vedic astrology > > Tuesday, February 10, 2009, 9:47 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear RR Ji > > > > In my experience as an astrologer, I also keep doing research on > each & every individual who approach me. I try my best to analyse > their speech, behaviour patterns & then see the respective bhavs & > the planets which makes the individual behave accordingly. > > > > All planets in our charts marks our approach to the world the way > we see it. Astrological science does not fails but it is the > astrologer who fails in reading & predicting ones horoscope. It is > the astrologer who is responsible & to be blamed & not astrology. > > > > The placement 0f moon & its strenght in the chart rules our mind. > This is where the astrologer normally fails in analysis. Astrologer > or any individual with a afflicted moon will always be speculative & > will always give a personal opinion rather trying to give a picture > on how it should be. > > > > But u hv rightly mentioned astrology is a science & will always > remain a science. > > > > GOD BLESS YOU > > WITH WARM REGARDS > > HARESH(HARRY) NATHANI > > VEDIC ASTOLOGER > > VAASTU CONSULTANT > > CELL +919867214103 > > (MUMBAI,INDIA) > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > Rohiniranjan <jyotish_vani@ hotmail.com> > > vedic astrology > > Wednesday, 11 February, 2009 7:38:15 AM > > [vedic astrology] Re: Astrology/Science? ? > > > > Dear Mr.. Nathani, > > > > While I respect your passionate stand in this matter, by > *summarily* > > dismissing what Narlikar or the previous scientists (Sagan for > > instance) or the next scientist states about astrology based on > their > > casual brush with a discipline that has kept some fairly cerebral > > people raptly absorbed for many many years and perhaps lifetimes - - > > we would be simply falling in the same rank and style as him or > > other 'rationalists' . > > > > I think instead of presenting a slogan (e.g., Astrology is not > > science and bunk!) with a counter-slogan ( " Astrology is a science > and > > has always been ... " ), both sides would have to forward > illustrations > > and arguments to justify their positions. And that takes a lot of > > time and dedication so then becomes a personal choice for each > > proponent and opponent! > > > > In that vein, I would applaud the contribution of Seymore and of > > Eysenck and Nias. I am certain all who believe that astrology is > > science have read these short offerings even if these may not be > > directly based in jyotish. > > > > RR > > > > vedic astrology, " Haresh \(Harry\) > Nathani " > > <haresh1405@ ...> wrote: > > > > > >  Dear Mr. RR Ji > > > > > > We should dismiss him summarily. The fact will always remain that > > Jyotish Shashtra is science & not fiction or art. If Jyotish > > Shahshtra has got such a huge milage & acceptablity since 3 yugas, > it > > is because it is science. > > > > > > Rishi Parasher took almost seven births in this universe > > to understand & experience the practical acceptablity of Jyotish > > Shahshtra, but we are the most unfortunate, some Jyotish authors > have > > not understood the message of Rishi Parasher & speculatively have > > given their own personal opinions without trying to understand the > > effect of it on the neophytes. > > >  > > > GOD BLESS YOU > > > WITH WARM REGARDS > > > HARESH(HARRY) NATHANI > > > VEDIC ASTOLOGER > > > VAASTU CONSULTANT > > > CELL +919867214103 > > > (MUMBAI,INDIA) > > > http://groups. / group/Jyotish_ Remedies/ database > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > Rohiniranjan <jyotish_vani@ ...> > > > vedic astrology > > > Monday, 9 February, 2009 12:23:33 PM > > > [vedic astrology] Re: Astrology/Science? ? > > > > > > > > > Mr. Haresh (Harry) Nathani, > > > > > > Since you addressed your posting to <all> ... > > > > > > I think Dr.. Narlikar has had a pretty productive life, > > scientifically > > > and otherwise so let us not presume that he has anything personal > > > against astrology! > > > > > > Perhaps, unless I am frightfully wrong, he does not even know or > > care > > > to know about this forum or the two or three other jyotish fora > > that > > > we all frequent. > > > > > > While your personal passion for astrology as expressed is > > understood > > > and reciprocated amicably -- there have been jyotishi- astrophyic > > ists > > > like Mr. Jha who have been questioning the MATH and astro- > > coordinates > > > that the great body of astrologers have been utilizing for > decades > > > and perhaps centuries! > > > > > > What is your opinion? Should we listen to what Mr. Vinay Jha has > to > > > say or do we dismiss him summarily? > > > > > > The 'YOU' is metaphorical, of course, since I know that 'Harry' > > does > > > not really control what the Goddess JR Rowlings writes, nor what > > > MOGULS ultimately decide to do with their lives! > > > > > > vedic astrology, " Haresh \(Harry\) > > Nathani " > > > <haresh1405@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Devendra and all, > > > > > > > > It seems that the scientist must have had some unpleasent > > > experience with astrolgers or his 9th house may be having those > > > planets which makes the native see astrology as supertitious. > > > > > > > > We of course are influnced by the planets in the orbit. Our > > > actions, our tastes, our mind, our relationships, our > intelligence > > > and many more are influenced by the planets. If that is not the > > case > > > then why would there be any kind of disparity between all > > > individuals, why our thoughts are different, why do we think > > > differently & not similarly like all. > > > > > > > > Astrology is merely not limited to predicting various events in > > our > > > lives, it is also a guide which shows us how our past, present > > > &  future will look like and how best can we adapt ourselves to > > those > > > kind of situations, circumstances & events which have influenced > us > > > also the events which will be going to influence us in our > > > respective lives. > > > > > > > > The fact that u have posted this query, I am certain u r not > a > > > astrloger. > > > > > > > >  > > > > GOD BLESS YOU > > > > WITH WARM REGARDS > > > > HARESH(HARRY) NATHANI > > > > VEDIC ASTOLOGER > > > > VAASTU CONSULTANT > > > > CELL +919867214103 > > > > (MUMBAI,INDIA) > > > > > > > > > > > > please look into the article by an eminent scientist. > > > > > > > > November 4, 2006 > > > > Press Trust Of India > > > > Rourkela, February 09, 2009 > > > > First Published: 12:51 IST(9/2/2009) > > > > Last Updated: 12:54 IST(9/2/2009) > > > > Future lies in hands and not planets: Narlikar > > > > " Our future lies in our hands and not on the position of > > planets, " > > > > said eminent scientist and internationally acclaimed astro- > > > physicist > > > > Prof J V Narlikar. > > > > He said there was a wrong concept that planets influenced the > > > > future. " The planets are powerless. Stand on your own feet, > know > > > your > > > > problem and try to solve it yourself. " > > > > The astronomer pointed out there were even differences among > > > > astrologers with western astrology differing from Indian > > astrology. > > > > " Astrology is not science, but superstition, he said. > > > > Astrologers knew that people came to them when they faced > > problems > > > > and kept them hanging so that they made repeated visits. > > > > Narlikar was speaking at a seminar 'Astrology-a pseudo- sience' > > here > > > > last night organised by the Orissa Rationalists Association. > > > > http://www.hindusta ntimes.com/ StoryPage/ Print.aspx? > > Id=eab5b5ad- > > > 2c22- > > > > 416f-bf1a-92a56bfd1 904 > > > > © Copyright 2007 Hindustan Times > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > > Davendra <davendrak@ ..> > > > > vedic astrology > > > > Monday, 9 February, 2009 7:24:10 AM > > > > [vedic astrology] Astrology/Science? ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Go to > > > http://messenger. / invite/ > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 12, 2009 Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 I believe there is a standard for astrology (it's called Vedanga, so it should be taught the same way as vedas - that's the pre-req, not that many follow that way). And regarding the school, I believe there is a BVB in Delhi which has astrology school (headed by Shri.K.N.Rao). There are only various methods developed during the last several years, but still there is only standard since our civilization started. Whether we decide to practice that standard or research other ways is what we choose. But there are standards, principles, rules, regulations, exceptions, loopholes in every science. Sometimes self-taught subjects can seem like they have no head or tail. Applies to astrology also. --- On Wed, 2/11/09, Rohiniranjan <jyotish_vani wrote: Rohiniranjan <jyotish_vani [vedic astrology] Re: Astrology/Science?? vedic astrology Wednesday, February 11, 2009, 6:07 PM The 'model' that you are using would make sense to most who live in the worldly realm of computer science, medical science, engineering science and business science or even political science, but astrology is different: There is no regulatory body (though many claim to be!) that standardizes what an astrologer must know or how they must be certified! Heck there is not even a standard school or board like physicians or engineers have or even electricians and other technicians for that matter. There is no way of examining, questioning as to how much of the uncanny predictions arise from a strict use and following of technical astrology and how much of it involves other less scientific but effective psychic processes and yogic sadhanas! One of the generally regarded as successful (not 100% mind you...!) astrologer in a message and sharing on an earlier jyotish list shared that he took a chart to bed and did japams as he considered the chart visually and in his head and ultimately the answer popped. Even if it were then definable and describable by astrological rules, it was not a logical or astrological deduction but just a post-hoc confirmation that astrological rules work retrospectively. But when an astrologer is faced with multiple possibilities, often what gets tuned-into and picked on is para-astrological. To my way of observing, DiVINATION is perfect and completely fool proof, but it is way beyond just astrology or other technical approaches adopted. Astrology is great and most appealing to the rational thought but let us not lose its link with divination which is what the nativity wants to receive. That may be the reason why astrologer, even famous ones fail and are not 100% correct as no astrologer ever claims or has demonstrated to my recollection over the last several years that I have been following astrology from different distances and perspectives and hopefully will continue to... A wise friend, as I have written earlier on the web and elsewhere stated very succinctly and down to earth: Divination is a bird which has two wings: Technique and intuition. Take away one of the wings and the bird will just flop haplessly around and around but never get off the *ground*. vedic astrology, serenity forever <serenity_forever4@ ...> wrote: > > As simple as " Computer Science is a Science, but there are students who get an A grade, B grade, C, D or F " . > > And especially, astrology is such a complicated science, to master it and actually get an A or A+ grade in it, might make that person renounce the physical earthly desires. That's what I have meant below. > > And when people say, they cant trust the astrologer, it's cuz it's mostly astrologers with B or B+, C or C+ or even D grades. (based on how many of his/her predictions come true - again this is directly proportional to how well he/she have mastered the science and applied it practically) . > > --- On Wed, 2/11/09, Rohiniranjan <jyotish_vani@ ...> wrote: > > Rohiniranjan <jyotish_vani@ ...> > [vedic astrology] Re: Astrology/Science? ? > vedic astrology > Wednesday, February 11, 2009, 4:31 PM > > > > > > > I fail to see how the performance of astrology can be separated from > the performance of the astrologer? > > We are talking about " science and scientific " here but then we say in > the same breath people are saying that they have 'faith' in > astrology. Based on what evidence? :-) > > I hope it makes sense...! > > RR > > vedic astrology, serenity forever > <serenity_forever4@ ...> wrote: > > > > I totally agree. I believe in " Never blame astrology but the > astrologer " . But at the same time, astrology is such an ocean, that > too a complex ocean, person who really gets to the depths of it, I > wonder, will he/she remain a normal human? I feel after going to that > depth, they reform like saints with no attachments to any of the > earthly desires. I rarely heard about such people, rather yogis, who > are not known to anyone, yet predict stuff to people randomly, with > no expectations. > > > > As such, in my personal experience, I have had some questions and > have been to 3 topnotch astrologers, all of them predicted almost the > same, but surprisingly, none of it is happening, rather the total > reverse is happening or gonna happen (as per the current trends). Yet > I dont blame them or thier calculations, whatever they said might > have been true, but I believe there is something fundamentally wrong > in the calculations or the system being used somewhere, maybe that's > why even some of the world-famous astrologers also fail to predict > 100% perfect. > > > > > > --- On Tue, 2/10/09, Haresh (Harry) Nathani <haresh1405@ ...> wrote: > > > > Haresh (Harry) Nathani <haresh1405@ ...> > > Re: [vedic astrology] Re: Astrology/Science? ? > > vedic astrology > > Tuesday, February 10, 2009, 9:47 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear RR Ji > > > > In my experience as an astrologer, I also keep doing research on > each & every individual who approach me. I try my best to analyse > their speech, behaviour patterns & then see the respective bhavs & > the planets which makes the individual behave accordingly. > > > > All planets in our charts marks our approach to the world the way > we see it. Astrological science does not fails but it is the > astrologer who fails in reading & predicting ones horoscope. It is > the astrologer who is responsible & to be blamed & not astrology. > > > > The placement 0f moon & its strenght in the chart rules our mind. > This is where the astrologer normally fails in analysis. Astrologer > or any individual with a afflicted moon will always be speculative & > will always give a personal opinion rather trying to give a picture > on how it should be. > > > > But u hv rightly mentioned astrology is a science & will always > remain a science. > > > > GOD BLESS YOU > > WITH WARM REGARDS > > HARESH(HARRY) NATHANI > > VEDIC ASTOLOGER > > VAASTU CONSULTANT > > CELL +919867214103 > > (MUMBAI,INDIA) > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > Rohiniranjan <jyotish_vani@ hotmail.com> > > vedic astrology > > Wednesday, 11 February, 2009 7:38:15 AM > > [vedic astrology] Re: Astrology/Science? ? > > > > Dear Mr.. Nathani, > > > > While I respect your passionate stand in this matter, by > *summarily* > > dismissing what Narlikar or the previous scientists (Sagan for > > instance) or the next scientist states about astrology based on > their > > casual brush with a discipline that has kept some fairly cerebral > > people raptly absorbed for many many years and perhaps lifetimes - - > > we would be simply falling in the same rank and style as him or > > other 'rationalists' . > > > > I think instead of presenting a slogan (e.g., Astrology is not > > science and bunk!) with a counter-slogan ( " Astrology is a science > and > > has always been ... " ), both sides would have to forward > illustrations > > and arguments to justify their positions. And that takes a lot of > > time and dedication so then becomes a personal choice for each > > proponent and opponent! > > > > In that vein, I would applaud the contribution of Seymore and of > > Eysenck and Nias. I am certain all who believe that astrology is > > science have read these short offerings even if these may not be > > directly based in jyotish. > > > > RR > > > > vedic astrology, " Haresh \(Harry\) > Nathani " > > <haresh1405@ ...> wrote: > > > > > >  Dear Mr. RR Ji > > > > > > We should dismiss him summarily. The fact will always remain that > > Jyotish Shashtra is science & not fiction or art. If Jyotish > > Shahshtra has got such a huge milage & acceptablity since 3 yugas, > it > > is because it is science. > > > > > > Rishi Parasher took almost seven births in this universe > > to understand & experience the practical acceptablity of Jyotish > > Shahshtra, but we are the most unfortunate, some Jyotish authors > have > > not understood the message of Rishi Parasher & speculatively have > > given their own personal opinions without trying to understand the > > effect of it on the neophytes. > > >  > > > GOD BLESS YOU > > > WITH WARM REGARDS > > > HARESH(HARRY) NATHANI > > > VEDIC ASTOLOGER > > > VAASTU CONSULTANT > > > CELL +919867214103 > > > (MUMBAI,INDIA) > > > http://groups. / group/Jyotish_ Remedies/ database > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > Rohiniranjan <jyotish_vani@ ...> > > > vedic astrology > > > Monday, 9 February, 2009 12:23:33 PM > > > [vedic astrology] Re: Astrology/Science? ? > > > > > > > > > Mr. Haresh (Harry) Nathani, > > > > > > Since you addressed your posting to <all> ... > > > > > > I think Dr.. Narlikar has had a pretty productive life, > > scientifically > > > and otherwise so let us not presume that he has anything personal > > > against astrology! > > > > > > Perhaps, unless I am frightfully wrong, he does not even know or > > care > > > to know about this forum or the two or three other jyotish fora > > that > > > we all frequent. > > > > > > While your personal passion for astrology as expressed is > > understood > > > and reciprocated amicably -- there have been jyotishi- astrophyic > > ists > > > like Mr. Jha who have been questioning the MATH and astro- > > coordinates > > > that the great body of astrologers have been utilizing for > decades > > > and perhaps centuries! > > > > > > What is your opinion? Should we listen to what Mr. Vinay Jha has > to > > > say or do we dismiss him summarily? > > > > > > The 'YOU' is metaphorical, of course, since I know that 'Harry' > > does > > > not really control what the Goddess JR Rowlings writes, nor what > > > MOGULS ultimately decide to do with their lives! > > > > > > vedic astrology, " Haresh \(Harry\) > > Nathani " > > > <haresh1405@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Devendra and all, > > > > > > > > It seems that the scientist must have had some unpleasent > > > experience with astrolgers or his 9th house may be having those > > > planets which makes the native see astrology as supertitious. > > > > > > > > We of course are influnced by the planets in the orbit. Our > > > actions, our tastes, our mind, our relationships, our > intelligence > > > and many more are influenced by the planets. If that is not the > > case > > > then why would there be any kind of disparity between all > > > individuals, why our thoughts are different, why do we think > > > differently & not similarly like all. > > > > > > > > Astrology is merely not limited to predicting various events in > > our > > > lives, it is also a guide which shows us how our past, present > > > &  future will look like and how best can we adapt ourselves to > > those > > > kind of situations, circumstances & events which have influenced > us > > > also the events which will be going to influence us in our > > > respective lives. > > > > > > > > The fact that u have posted this query, I am certain u r not > a > > > astrloger. > > > > > > > >  > > > > GOD BLESS YOU > > > > WITH WARM REGARDS > > > > HARESH(HARRY) NATHANI > > > > VEDIC ASTOLOGER > > > > VAASTU CONSULTANT > > > > CELL +919867214103 > > > > (MUMBAI,INDIA) > > > > > > > > > > > > please look into the article by an eminent scientist. > > > > > > > > November 4, 2006 > > > > Press Trust Of India > > > > Rourkela, February 09, 2009 > > > > First Published: 12:51 IST(9/2/2009) > > > > Last Updated: 12:54 IST(9/2/2009) > > > > Future lies in hands and not planets: Narlikar > > > > " Our future lies in our hands and not on the position of > > planets, " > > > > said eminent scientist and internationally acclaimed astro- > > > physicist > > > > Prof J V Narlikar. > > > > He said there was a wrong concept that planets influenced the > > > > future. " The planets are powerless. Stand on your own feet, > know > > > your > > > > problem and try to solve it yourself. " > > > > The astronomer pointed out there were even differences among > > > > astrologers with western astrology differing from Indian > > astrology. > > > > " Astrology is not science, but superstition, he said. > > > > Astrologers knew that people came to them when they faced > > problems > > > > and kept them hanging so that they made repeated visits. > > > > Narlikar was speaking at a seminar 'Astrology-a pseudo- sience' > > here > > > > last night organised by the Orissa Rationalists Association. > > > > http://www.hindusta ntimes.com/ StoryPage/ Print.aspx? > > Id=eab5b5ad- > > > 2c22- > > > > 416f-bf1a-92a56bfd1 904 > > > > © Copyright 2007 Hindustan Times > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > > Davendra <davendrak@ ..> > > > > vedic astrology > > > > Monday, 9 February, 2009 7:24:10 AM > > > > [vedic astrology] Astrology/Science? ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Go to > > > http://messenger. / invite/ > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 12, 2009 Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 Since my earlier response to your message was intercepted or gobbled up by :-) perhaps this one will too but I must press on! I have never really heard of a self-taught practicing scientist! I have known many many self-taught practicing jyotishis! Who are doing fine :-) Perhaps another reason to question the notion of Astrology being a Science? RR vedic astrology , serenity forever <serenity_forever4 wrote: > > I believe there is a standard for astrology (it's called Vedanga, so it should be taught the same way as vedas - that's the pre-req, not that many follow that way). And regarding the school, I believe there is a BVB in Delhi which has astrology school (headed by Shri.K.N.Rao). There are only various methods developed during the last several years, but still there is only standard since our civilization started. Whether we decide to practice that standard or research other ways is what we choose. But there are standards, principles, rules, regulations, exceptions, loopholes in every science. > > Sometimes self-taught subjects can seem like they have no head or tail. Applies to astrology also. > > --- On Wed, 2/11/09, Rohiniranjan <jyotish_vani wrote: > Rohiniranjan <jyotish_vani > [vedic astrology] Re: Astrology/Science?? > vedic astrology > Wednesday, February 11, 2009, 6:07 PM > > > > > > The 'model' that you are using would make sense to most who live in > > the worldly realm of computer science, medical science, engineering > > science and business science or even political science, but astrology > > is different: > > > > There is no regulatory body (though many claim to be!) that > > standardizes what an astrologer must know or how they must be > > certified! Heck there is not even a standard school or board like > > physicians or engineers have or even electricians and other > > technicians for that matter. > > > > There is no way of examining, questioning as to how much of the > > uncanny predictions arise from a strict use and following of > > technical astrology and how much of it involves other less scientific > > but effective psychic processes and yogic sadhanas! One of the > > generally regarded as successful (not 100% mind you...!) astrologer > > in a message and sharing on an earlier jyotish list shared that he > > took a chart to bed and did japams as he considered the chart > > visually and in his head and ultimately the answer popped. Even if it > > were then definable and describable by astrological rules, it was not > > a logical or astrological deduction but just a post-hoc confirmation > > that astrological rules work retrospectively. But when an astrologer > > is faced with multiple possibilities, often what gets tuned-into and > > picked on is para-astrological. > > > > To my way of observing, DiVINATION is perfect and completely fool > > proof, but it is way beyond just astrology or other technical > > approaches adopted. > > > > Astrology is great and most appealing to the rational thought but let > > us not lose its link with divination which is what the nativity wants > > to receive. > > > > That may be the reason why astrologer, even famous ones fail and are > > not 100% correct as no astrologer ever claims or has demonstrated to > > my recollection over the last several years that I have been > > following astrology from different distances and perspectives and > > hopefully will continue to... > > > > A wise friend, as I have written earlier on the web and elsewhere > > stated very succinctly and down to earth: Divination is a bird which > > has two wings: Technique and intuition. Take away one of the wings > > and the bird will just flop haplessly around and around but never get > > off the *ground*. > > > > vedic astrology, serenity forever > > <serenity_forever4@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > As simple as " Computer Science is a Science, but there are students > > who get an A grade, B grade, C, D or F " . > > > > > > And especially, astrology is such a complicated science, to master > > it and actually get an A or A+ grade in it, might make that person > > renounce the physical earthly desires. That's what I have meant below. > > > > > > And when people say, they cant trust the astrologer, it's cuz it's > > mostly astrologers with B or B+, C or C+ or even D grades. (based on > > how many of his/her predictions come true - again this is directly > > proportional to how well he/she have mastered the science and applied > > it practically) . > > > > > > --- On Wed, 2/11/09, Rohiniranjan <jyotish_vani@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > Rohiniranjan <jyotish_vani@ ...> > > > [vedic astrology] Re: Astrology/Science? ? > > > vedic astrology > > > Wednesday, February 11, 2009, 4:31 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I fail to see how the performance of astrology can be separated > > from > > > the performance of the astrologer? > > > > > > We are talking about " science and scientific " here but then we say > > in > > > the same breath people are saying that they have 'faith' in > > > astrology. Based on what evidence? :-) > > > > > > I hope it makes sense...! > > > > > > RR > > > > > > vedic astrology, serenity forever > > > <serenity_forever4@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > > > I totally agree. I believe in " Never blame astrology but the > > > astrologer " . But at the same time, astrology is such an ocean, that > > > too a complex ocean, person who really gets to the depths of it, I > > > wonder, will he/she remain a normal human? I feel after going to > > that > > > depth, they reform like saints with no attachments to any of the > > > earthly desires. I rarely heard about such people, rather yogis, > > who > > > are not known to anyone, yet predict stuff to people randomly, with > > > no expectations. > > > > > > > > As such, in my personal experience, I have had some questions and > > > have been to 3 topnotch astrologers, all of them predicted almost > > the > > > same, but surprisingly, none of it is happening, rather the total > > > reverse is happening or gonna happen (as per the current trends). > > Yet > > > I dont blame them or thier calculations, whatever they said might > > > have been true, but I believe there is something fundamentally > > wrong > > > in the calculations or the system being used somewhere, maybe > > that's > > > why even some of the world-famous astrologers also fail to predict > > > 100% perfect. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 2/10/09, Haresh (Harry) Nathani <haresh1405@ ...> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Haresh (Harry) Nathani <haresh1405@ ...> > > > > Re: [vedic astrology] Re: Astrology/Science? ? > > > > vedic astrology > > > > Tuesday, February 10, 2009, 9:47 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear RR Ji > > > > > > > > In my experience as an astrologer, I also keep doing research on > > > each & every individual who approach me. I try my best to analyse > > > their speech, behaviour patterns & then see the respective bhavs & > > > the planets which makes the individual behave accordingly. > > > > > > > > All planets in our charts marks our approach to the world the way > > > we see it. Astrological science does not fails but it is the > > > astrologer who fails in reading & predicting ones horoscope. It is > > > the astrologer who is responsible & to be blamed & not astrology. > > > > > > > > The placement 0f moon & its strenght in the chart rules our mind. > > > This is where the astrologer normally fails in analysis. Astrologer > > > or any individual with a afflicted moon will always be speculative > > & > > > will always give a personal opinion rather trying to give a picture > > > on how it should be. > > > > > > > > But u hv rightly mentioned astrology is a science & will always > > > remain a science. > > > > > > > > GOD BLESS YOU > > > > WITH WARM REGARDS > > > > HARESH(HARRY) NATHANI > > > > VEDIC ASTOLOGER > > > > VAASTU CONSULTANT > > > > CELL +919867214103 > > > > (MUMBAI,INDIA) > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > > Rohiniranjan <jyotish_vani@ hotmail.com> > > > > vedic astrology > > > > Wednesday, 11 February, 2009 7:38:15 AM > > > > [vedic astrology] Re: Astrology/Science? ? > > > > > > > > Dear Mr.. Nathani, > > > > > > > > While I respect your passionate stand in this matter, by > > > *summarily* > > > > dismissing what Narlikar or the previous scientists (Sagan for > > > > instance) or the next scientist states about astrology based on > > > their > > > > casual brush with a discipline that has kept some fairly cerebral > > > > people raptly absorbed for many many years and perhaps lifetimes - > > - > > > > we would be simply falling in the same rank and style as him or > > > > other 'rationalists' . > > > > > > > > I think instead of presenting a slogan (e.g., Astrology is not > > > > science and bunk!) with a counter-slogan ( " Astrology is a science > > > and > > > > has always been ... " ), both sides would have to forward > > > illustrations > > > > and arguments to justify their positions. And that takes a lot of > > > > time and dedication so then becomes a personal choice for each > > > > proponent and opponent! > > > > > > > > In that vein, I would applaud the contribution of Seymore and of > > > > Eysenck and Nias. I am certain all who believe that astrology is > > > > science have read these short offerings even if these may not be > > > > directly based in jyotish. > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, " Haresh \(Harry\) > > > Nathani " > > > > <haresh1405@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > >  Dear Mr. RR Ji > > > > > > > > > > We should dismiss him summarily. The fact will always remain > > that > > > > Jyotish Shashtra is science & not fiction or art. If Jyotish > > > > Shahshtra has got such a huge milage & acceptablity since 3 > > yugas, > > > it > > > > is because it is science. > > > > > > > > > > Rishi Parasher took almost seven births in this universe > > > > to understand & experience the practical acceptablity > > of Jyotish > > > > Shahshtra, but we are the most unfortunate, some Jyotish authors > > > have > > > > not understood the message of Rishi Parasher & speculatively have > > > > given their own personal opinions without trying to understand > > the > > > > effect of it on the neophytes. > > > > >  > > > > > GOD BLESS YOU > > > > > WITH WARM REGARDS > > > > > HARESH(HARRY) NATHANI > > > > > VEDIC ASTOLOGER > > > > > VAASTU CONSULTANT > > > > > CELL +919867214103 > > > > > (MUMBAI,INDIA) > > > > > http://groups. / group/Jyotish_ Remedies/ database > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > > > Rohiniranjan <jyotish_vani@ ...> > > > > > vedic astrology > > > > > Monday, 9 February, 2009 12:23:33 PM > > > > > [vedic astrology] Re: Astrology/Science? ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mr. Haresh (Harry) Nathani, > > > > > > > > > > Since you addressed your posting to <all> ... > > > > > > > > > > I think Dr.. Narlikar has had a pretty productive life, > > > > scientifically > > > > > and otherwise so let us not presume that he has anything > > personal > > > > > against astrology! > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps, unless I am frightfully wrong, he does not even know > > or > > > > care > > > > > to know about this forum or the two or three other jyotish fora > > > > that > > > > > we all frequent. > > > > > > > > > > While your personal passion for astrology as expressed is > > > > understood > > > > > and reciprocated amicably -- there have been jyotishi- > > astrophyic > > > > ists > > > > > like Mr. Jha who have been questioning the MATH and astro- > > > > coordinates > > > > > that the great body of astrologers have been utilizing for > > > decades > > > > > and perhaps centuries! > > > > > > > > > > What is your opinion? Should we listen to what Mr. Vinay Jha > > has > > > to > > > > > say or do we dismiss him summarily? > > > > > > > > > > The 'YOU' is metaphorical, of course, since I know that 'Harry' > > > > does > > > > > not really control what the Goddess JR Rowlings writes, nor > > what > > > > > MOGULS ultimately decide to do with their lives! > > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, " Haresh \(Harry\) > > > > Nathani " > > > > > <haresh1405@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Devendra and all, > > > > > > > > > > > > It seems that the scientist must have had some unpleasent > > > > > experience with astrolgers or his 9th house may be having those > > > > > planets which makes the native see astrology as supertitious. > > > > > > > > > > > > We of course are influnced by the planets in the orbit. Our > > > > > actions, our tastes, our mind, our relationships, our > > > intelligence > > > > > and many more are influenced by the planets. If that is not the > > > > case > > > > > then why would there be any kind of disparity between all > > > > > individuals, why our thoughts are different, why do we think > > > > > differently & not similarly like all. > > > > > > > > > > > > Astrology is merely not limited to predicting various events > > in > > > > our > > > > > lives, it is also a guide which shows us how our past, > > present > > > > > &  future will look like and how best can we adapt ourselves > > to > > > > those > > > > > kind of situations, circumstances & events which have > > influenced > > > us > > > > > also the events which will be going to influence us in our > > > > > respective lives. > > > > > > > > > > > > The fact that u have posted this query, I am certain u r > > not > > > a > > > > > astrloger. > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > GOD BLESS YOU > > > > > > WITH WARM REGARDS > > > > > > HARESH(HARRY) NATHANI > > > > > > VEDIC ASTOLOGER > > > > > > VAASTU CONSULTANT > > > > > > CELL +919867214103 > > > > > > (MUMBAI,INDIA) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > please look into the article by an eminent scientist. > > > > > > > > > > > > November 4, 2006 > > > > > > Press Trust Of India > > > > > > Rourkela, February 09, 2009 > > > > > > First Published: 12:51 IST(9/2/2009) > > > > > > Last Updated: 12:54 IST(9/2/2009) > > > > > > Future lies in hands and not planets: Narlikar > > > > > > " Our future lies in our hands and not on the position of > > > > planets, " > > > > > > said eminent scientist and internationally acclaimed astro- > > > > > physicist > > > > > > Prof J V Narlikar. > > > > > > He said there was a wrong concept that planets influenced the > > > > > > future. " The planets are powerless. Stand on your own feet, > > > know > > > > > your > > > > > > problem and try to solve it yourself. " > > > > > > The astronomer pointed out there were even differences among > > > > > > astrologers with western astrology differing from Indian > > > > astrology. > > > > > > " Astrology is not science, but superstition, he said. > > > > > > Astrologers knew that people came to them when they faced > > > > problems > > > > > > and kept them hanging so that they made repeated visits. > > > > > > Narlikar was speaking at a seminar 'Astrology-a pseudo- > > sience' > > > > here > > > > > > last night organised by the Orissa Rationalists Association. > > > > > > http://www.hindusta ntimes.com/ StoryPage/ Print.aspx? > > > > Id=eab5b5ad- > > > > > 2c22- > > > > > > 416f-bf1a-92a56bfd1 904 > > > > > > © Copyright 2007 Hindustan Times > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > > > > Davendra <davendrak@ ..> > > > > > > vedic astrology > > > > > > Monday, 9 February, 2009 7:24:10 AM > > > > > > [vedic astrology] Astrology/Science? ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Go to > > > > > http://messenger. / invite/ > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 12, 2009 Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 || Om Gurave Namah || Dear Jyotishas, The disbelief in astrology is natural to many. Even during my early days I used to disbelieve Jyotish. But I definitely felt that I cannot give a firm opinion until I have tried my hands on it. JV Narlikar is also well read person but unfortunately he is not following the basic premise of science to experiment before drawing conclusion. What kind of " Rationlist " society will agree to such a view? Jyotish is soul based study, Jyoti means " light " and " Isha " means means divine or knowledge. As practitioners of Jyotisha know that Soul's view clouded sometimes for us to see it clearly. Each may have different obstructions to their view depending on their karmic point of view. Let me justify my view with some Jyotish parameters, We take the Sun and Atmakaaraka to represent soul and prime light in the chart. Let me take JV Narlikar's chart, Unfortunately I got only the date of birth and not the time of birth. But this is enough to know the atmakaaraka and Sun position, May be Ganesha wants me understand only the soul level for this person. From Surya lagna in Cancer we see that Surya is 12th from Leo, in Marana kaaraka staana. Hence see that mantra (Leo being natural 5th) will come difficult to him. Normally the person should commence his mantra with Gayatri Mantra this would ensure a strong sun. This sun is in cancer in Navamsa also, hence this is natural in his Dharmic self. We see that Sun is conjoined debilitated Mars, eventhough the Mars is friend of Sun we see that all Agni tatva signifying " Jyoti " is very weak in Water sign. This is a clear affliction to " Agni " tatva in the individual. The aspect of Rahu from another water sign shows some type of curse from Agni Tattva. The dispositor of Sun is moon with Saturn in another Jala sign with Saturn and aspected by Rahu. Here we see that completed Jala trines being dominated. Hence no Fire for Jyotish. Now, Rahu is also the Atmakaaraka, This normally gives a skeptic, A skeptic things everybody is out to cheat him. And Rahu Atmaakaaraka shows he would be cheated. This Rahu gave him great research ability and Mathematical skills. Rahu is lord of Maya or fiction, for spiritual growth this is excellent to understand that everything is just maya. But Rahu is not in friendly situation from Natural atmakaaraka, Sun. It in fact eclipses Sun in Navamsa. His Dasa is as follows, AK Kendradi Graha Dasa (experiences of the soul): Maha Dasas: Jup: 1938-07-19 - 1949-07-18 Rah: 1949-07-18 - 1952-07-18 Ven: 1952-07-18 - 1962-07-19 Merc: 1962-07-19 - 1972-07-18 Sun: 1972-07-18 - 1983-07-19 Mars: 1983-07-19 - 1990-07-19 Sat: 1990-07-19 - 1992-07-18 Moon: 1992-07-18 - 2000-07-18 Second Cycle. Maha Dasas: Jup: 2000-07-18 (21:46:35) - 2011-07-19 (17:21:39) Rah: 2011-07-19 (17:21:39) - 2014-07-19 (11:52:10) Ven: 2014-07-19 (11:52:10) - 2024-07-19 (1:18:41) Merc: 2024-07-19 (1:18:41) - 2034-07-19 (14:44:36) Sun: 2034-07-19 (14:44:36) - 2045-07-19 (10:30:35) Mars: 2045-07-19 (10:30:35) - 2052-07-19 (5:37:20) Sat: 2052-07-19 (5:37:20) - 2054-07-19 (17:44:23) Moon: 2054-07-19 (17:44:23) - 2062-07-19 (18:59:10) Currently he is running very nice Jupiter Dasha. Which is retrograde, The lessons will be sweet to soul if the soul does not learn well, The next dasa is of Rahu, Rahu as Ak will make lessons tough, as it's a malefic. It's strongly recommended to him that he starts worship of Lord Vishnu regularly, 12th from Ak, Removes (12th) all the negative of Atmakaaraka, As mercury is the lord of 12th from Ak in D9. Since Rahu is afflicting Sun, the natural atmakaaraka, He should worship Kaala Agni or an Agni form most suitable to Rahu. Warm Regards Sanjay P Om Tat Sat. References: http://meghnad.iucaa.ernet.in/~jvn/jvn-bio.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jayant_Narlikar D:\Temp\jh\data\Jayant Vishnu Narlikar Natal Chart July 19, 1938 Time: 0:30:00 Time Zone: 5:30:00 (East of GMT) Place: 74 E 13' 00 " , 16 N 42' 00 " Kolhapur, India Altitude: 0.00 meters Lunar Yr-Mo: Bahu-dhanya - Ashadha Tithi: Krishna Shashthi (Ve) (23.00% left) Vedic Weekday: Monday (Mo) Nakshatra: Uttarabhadra (Sa) (37.15% left) Yoga: Atiganda (Mo) (43.59% left) Karana: Vanija (Ve) (46.00% left) Hora Lord: Sun (5 min sign: Sc) Mahakala Hora: Mars (5 min sign: Pi) Kaala Lord: Moon (Mahakala: Moon) Sunrise: 6:08:44 (July 18) Sunset: 19:09:24 (July 18) Janma Ghatis: 45.8860 Ayanamsa: 22-59-52.82 Sidereal Time: 19:40:34 Body Longitude Nakshatra Pada Rasi Navamsa Lagna 7 Ar 51' 28.09 " Aswi 3 Ar Ge Sun - DK 2 Cn 28' 25.12 " Puna 4 Cn Cn Moon - PiK 11 Pi 42' 50.15 " UBha 3 Pi Li Mars - GK 4 Cn 21' 46.80 " Push 1 Cn Le Mercury - AmK 26 Cn 17' 36.73 " Asre 3 Cn Aq Jupiter ® - PK 8 Aq 06' 25.08 " Sata 1 Aq Sg Venus - MK 12 Le 16' 46.88 " Magh 4 Le Cn Saturn - BK 24 Pi 55' 28.10 " Reva 3 Pi Aq Rahu - AK 0 Sc 42' 06.06 " Visa 4 Sc Cn Ketu 0 Ta 42' 06.06 " Krit 2 Ta Cp Maandi 7 Aq 14' 04.92 " Sata 1 Aq Sg Gulika 25 Cp 16' 57.37 " Dhan 1 Cp Le Bhava Lagna 7 Ar 03' 38.14 " Aswi 3 Ar Ge Hora Lagna 12 Cp 22' 36.80 " Srav 1 Cp Ar Ghati Lagna 28 Ar 19' 32.79 " Krit 1 Ar Sg Vighati Lagna 18 Li 04' 12.74 " Swat 4 Li Pi Varnada Lagna 7 Ta 51' 28.09 " Krit 4 Ta Cn Sree Lagna 24 Sc 08' 02.25 " Jye 3 Sc Aq Pranapada Lagna 18 Li 47' 58.39 " Swat 4 Li Pi Indu Lagna 11 Ge 42' 50.15 " Ardr 2 Ge Cp Bhrigu Bindu 6 Cp 12' 28.11 " USha 3 Cp Aq Dhooma 15 Sc 48' 25.12 " Anu 4 Sc Sc Vyatipata 14 Le 11' 34.88 " PPha 1 Le Le Parivesha 14 Aq 11' 34.88 " Sata 3 Aq Aq Indra Chapa 15 Ta 48' 25.12 " Rohi 2 Ta Ta Upaketu 2 Ge 28' 25.12 " Mrig 3 Ge Li Kaala 28 Pi 14' 29.40 " Reva 4 Pi Pi Mrityu 14 Ta 04' 28.23 " Rohi 2 Ta Ta Artha Prahara 3 Ge 52' 42.08 " Mrig 4 Ge Sc Yama Ghantaka 22 Ge 37' 36.69 " Puna 1 Ge Ar Prana Sphuta 4 Pi 34' 17.84 " UBha 1 Pi Le Deha Sphuta 28 Le 59' 38.60 " UPha 1 Le Sg Mrityu Sphuta 29 Pi 27' 06.72 " Reva 4 Pi Pi Sookshma TriSphuta 3 Le 01' 03.16 " Magh 1 Le Ar TriSphuta 14 Cp 51' 15.62 " Srav 2 Cp Ta ChatusSphuta 17 Ar 19' 40.74 " Bhar 2 Ar Vi PanchaSphuta 18 Sc 01' 46.80 " Jye 1 Sc Sg Kunda 6 Cp 28' 55.52 " USha 3 Cp Aq +--------------+ |Mo Sa |As GL |Ke | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |-----------+-----------------------+-----------| |JuR Md | |Su Ma | | | |Me AL | | | | | | | | | | | | | |-----------| Rasi |-----------| |HL Gk | |Ve | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |-----------+-----------------------+-----------| | |Ra | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | +--------------+ Vimsottari Dasa (): Sat Sat 1926-08-09 Merc 1929-08-12 Ket 1932-04-18 Ven 1933-05-29 Sun 1936-07-30 Moon 1937-07-12 Mars 1939-02-09 Rah 1940-03-19 Jup 1943-01-25 Merc Merc 1945-08-09 Ket 1948-01-05 Ven 1949-01-01 Sun 1951-11-03 Moon 1952-09-09 Mars 1954-02-06 Rah 1955-02-03 Jup 1957-08-25 Sat 1959-11-30 Ket Ket 1962-08-09 Ven 1963-01-04 Sun 1964-03-04 Moon 1964-07-12 Mars 1965-02-08 Rah 1965-07-09 Jup 1966-07-28 Sat 1967-07-03 Merc 1968-08-12 Ven Ven 1969-08-09 Sun 1972-12-08 Moon 1973-12-09 Mars 1975-08-10 Rah 1976-10-10 Jup 1979-10-10 Sat 1982-06-08 Merc 1985-08-09 Ket 1988-06-07 Sun Sun 1989-08-09 Moon 1989-11-27 Mars 1990-05-26 Rah 1990-10-04 Jup 1991-08-29 Sat 1992-06-13 Merc 1993-05-26 Ket 1994-04-01 Ven 1994-08-10 Moon Moon 1995-08-10 Mars 1996-06-07 Rah 1997-01-07 Jup 1998-07-09 Sat 1999-11-10 Merc 2001-06-08 Ket 2002-11-09 Ven 2003-06-08 Sun 2005-02-06 Mars Mars 2005-08-09 Rah 2006-01-04 Jup 2007-01-22 Sat 2007-12-30 Merc 2009-02-06 Ket 2010-02-03 Ven 2010-07-03 Sun 2011-09-04 Moon 2012-01-08 Rah Rah 2012-08-09 Jup 2015-04-19 Sat 2017-09-16 Merc 2020-07-21 Ket 2023-02-06 Ven 2024-02-24 Sun 2027-02-24 Moon 2028-01-20 Mars 2029-07-22 Jup Jup 2030-08-10 Sat 2032-09-28 Merc 2035-04-07 Ket 2037-07-15 Ven 2038-06-21 Sun 2041-02-18 Moon 2041-12-09 Mars 2043-04-07 Rah 2044-03-13 2009/2/9 Davendra <davendrak > please look into the article by an eminent scientist. > > November 4, 2006 > Press Trust Of India > Rourkela, February 09, 2009 > First Published: 12:51 IST(9/2/2009) > Last Updated: 12:54 IST(9/2/2009) > Future lies in hands and not planets: Narlikar > " Our future lies in our hands and not on the position of planets, " > said eminent scientist and internationally acclaimed astro-physicist > Prof J V Narlikar. > He said there was a wrong concept that planets influenced the > future. " The planets are powerless. Stand on your own feet, know your > problem and try to solve it yourself. " > The astronomer pointed out there were even differences among > astrologers with western astrology differing from Indian astrology. > " Astrology is not science, but superstition, he said. > Astrologers knew that people came to them when they faced problems > and kept them hanging so that they made repeated visits. > Narlikar was speaking at a seminar 'Astrology-a pseudo-sience' here > last night organised by the Orissa Rationalists Association. > http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/Print.aspx?Id=eab5b5ad-2c22- > 416f-bf1a-92a56bfd1904 > © Copyright 2007 Hindustan Times > > > Messages in this topic > <vedic astrology/message/110073;_ylc=X3oDMTM4b2JwM\ mdqBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEyMjkwNDQEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyNjg2BG1zZ0lkAzExMDA3M\ wRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawN2dHBjBHN0aW1lAzEyMzQxNDQ0NTYEdHBjSWQDMTEwMDcz>( > 1) Reply (via web post) > <vedic astrology/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJyM200NWs4BF9TAzk\ 3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEyMjkwNDQEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyNjg2BG1zZ0lkAzExMDA3MwRzZWMDZnR\ yBHNsawNycGx5BHN0aW1lAzEyMzQxNDQ0NTY-?act=reply & messageNum=110073>| Start > a new topic > <vedic astrology/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJlbGRpMnZqBF9TAzk\ 3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEyMjkwNDQEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyNjg2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3R\ pbWUDMTIzNDE0NDQ1Ng--> > Messages<vedic astrology/messages;_ylc=X3oDMTJlbHV\ xY2xyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEyMjkwNDQEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyNjg2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2x\ rA21zZ3MEc3RpbWUDMTIzNDE0NDQ1Ng-->| > Files<vedic astrology/files;_ylc=X3oDMTJmNzd1YXNhB\ F9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEyMjkwNDQEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyNjg2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2Zpb\ GVzBHN0aW1lAzEyMzQxNDQ0NTY->| > Photos<vedic astrology/photos;_ylc=X3oDMTJlMzNxMjZ\ rBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEyMjkwNDQEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyNjg2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3B\ ob3QEc3RpbWUDMTIzNDE0NDQ1Ng-->| > Links<vedic astrology/links;_ylc=X3oDMTJmbDVzbXE2B\ F9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEyMjkwNDQEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyNjg2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2xpb\ mtzBHN0aW1lAzEyMzQxNDQ0NTY->| > Database<vedic astrology/database;_ylc=X3oDMTJjZGk\ 3ZWhrBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEyMjkwNDQEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyNjg2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2x\ rA2RiBHN0aW1lAzEyMzQxNDQ0NTY->| > Calendar<vedic astrology/calendar;_ylc=X3oDMTJkZjM\ ybzV0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEyMjkwNDQEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyNjg2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2x\ rA2NhbARzdGltZQMxMjM0MTQ0NDU2> > > > > > > > ....... 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Guest guest Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 || Om Gurave Namah ||Dear Jyotishas, The disbelief in astrology is natural to many. Even during my early days I used to disbelieve Jyotish. But I definitely felt that I cannot give a firm opinion until I have tried my hands on it. JV Narlikar is also well read person but unfortunately he is not following the basic premise of science to experiment before drawing conclusion. What kind of " Rationlist " society will agree to such a view? Jyotish is soul based study, Jyoti means " light " and " Isha " means means divine or knowledge. As practitioners of Jyotisha know that Soul's view clouded sometimes for us to see it clearly. Each may have different obstructions to their view depending on their karmic point of view. Let me justify my view with some Jyotish parameters, We take the Sun and Atmakaaraka to represent soul and prime light in the chart. Let me take JV Narlikar's chart, Unfortunately I got only the date of birth and not the time of birth. But this is enough to know the atmakaaraka and Sun position, May be Ganesha wants me understand only the soul level for this person. From Surya lagna in Cancer we see that Surya is 12th from Leo, in Marana kaaraka staana. Hence see that mantra (Leo being natural 5th) will come difficult to him. Normally the person should commence his mantra with Gayatri Mantra this would ensure a strong sun. This sun is in cancer in Navamsa also, hence this is natural in his Dharmic self. We see that Sun is conjoined debilitated Mars, eventhough the Mars is friend of Sun we see that all Agni tatva signifying " Jyoti " is very weak in Water sign. This is a clear affliction to " Agni " tatva in the individual. The aspect of Rahu from another water sign shows some type of curse from Agni Tattva. The dispositor of Sun is moon with Saturn in another Jala sign with Saturn and aspected by Rahu. Here we see that completed Jala trines being dominated. Hence no Fire for Jyotish. Now, Rahu is also the Atmakaaraka, This normally gives a skeptic, A skeptic things everybody is out to cheat him. And Rahu Atmaakaaraka shows he would be cheated. This Rahu gave him great research ability and Mathematical skills. Rahu is lord of Maya or fiction, for spiritual growth this is excellent to understand that everything is just maya. But Rahu is not in friendly situation from Natural atmakaaraka, Sun. It in fact eclipses Sun in Navamsa. His Dasa is as follows,AK Kendradi Graha Dasa (experiences of the soul): Maha Dasas: Jup: 1938-07-19 - 1949-07-18 Rah: 1949-07-18 - 1952-07-18 Ven: 1952-07-18 - 1962-07-19 Merc: 1962-07-19 - 1972-07-18 Sun: 1972-07-18 - 1983-07-19 Mars: 1983-07-19 - 1990-07-19 Sat: 1990-07-19 - 1992-07-18 Moon: 1992-07-18 - 2000-07-18Second Cycle. Maha Dasas: Jup: 2000-07-18 (21:46:35) - 2011-07-19 (17:21:39) Rah: 2011-07-19 (17:21:39) - 2014-07-19 (11:52:10) Ven: 2014-07-19 (11:52:10) - 2024-07-19 (1:18:41) Merc: 2024-07-19 (1:18:41) - 2034-07-19 (14:44:36) Sun: 2034-07-19 (14:44:36) - 2045-07-19 (10:30:35) Mars: 2045-07-19 (10:30:35) - 2052-07-19 (5:37:20) Sat: 2052-07-19 (5:37:20) - 2054-07-19 (17:44:23) Moon: 2054-07-19 (17:44:23) - 2062-07-19 (18:59:10) Currently he is running very nice Jupiter Dasha. Which is retrograde, The lessons will be sweet to soul if the soul does not learn well, The next dasa is of Rahu, Rahu as Ak will make lessons tough, as it's a malefic. It's strongly recommended to him that he starts worship of Lord Vishnu regularly, 12th from Ak, Removes (12th) all the negative of Atmakaaraka, As mercury is the lord of 12th from Ak in D9. Since Rahu is afflicting Sun, the natural atmakaaraka, He should worship Kaala Agni or an Agni form most suitable to Rahu.Warm RegardsSanjay POm Tat Sat.References: http://meghnad.iucaa.ernet.in/~jvn/jvn-bio.htmlhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jayant_Narlikar D:\Temp\jh\data\Jayant Vishnu Narlikar Natal Chart July 19, 1938 Time: 0:30:00 Time Zone: 5:30:00 (East of GMT) Place: 74 E 13' 00 " , 16 N 42' 00 " Kolhapur, India Altitude: 0.00 meters Lunar Yr-Mo: Bahu-dhanya - Ashadha Tithi: Krishna Shashthi (Ve) (23.00% left) Vedic Weekday: Monday (Mo) Nakshatra: Uttarabhadra (Sa) (37.15% left) Yoga: Atiganda (Mo) (43.59% left) Karana: Vanija (Ve) (46.00% left) Hora Lord: Sun (5 min sign: Sc) Mahakala Hora: Mars (5 min sign: Pi) Kaala Lord: Moon (Mahakala: Moon) Sunrise: 6:08:44 (July 18) Sunset: 19:09:24 (July 18) Janma Ghatis: 45.8860 Ayanamsa: 22-59-52.82 Sidereal Time: 19:40:34 Body Longitude Nakshatra Pada Rasi Navamsa Lagna 7 Ar 51' 28.09 " Aswi 3 Ar Ge Sun - DK 2 Cn 28' 25.12 " Puna 4 Cn Cn Moon - PiK 11 Pi 42' 50.15 " UBha 3 Pi Li Mars - GK 4 Cn 21' 46.80 " Push 1 Cn Le Mercury - AmK 26 Cn 17' 36.73 " Asre 3 Cn Aq Jupiter ® - PK 8 Aq 06' 25.08 " Sata 1 Aq Sg Venus - MK 12 Le 16' 46.88 " Magh 4 Le Cn Saturn - BK 24 Pi 55' 28.10 " Reva 3 Pi Aq Rahu - AK 0 Sc 42' 06.06 " Visa 4 Sc Cn Ketu 0 Ta 42' 06.06 " Krit 2 Ta Cp Maandi 7 Aq 14' 04.92 " Sata 1 Aq Sg Gulika 25 Cp 16' 57.37 " Dhan 1 Cp Le Bhava Lagna 7 Ar 03' 38.14 " Aswi 3 Ar Ge Hora Lagna 12 Cp 22' 36.80 " Srav 1 Cp Ar Ghati Lagna 28 Ar 19' 32.79 " Krit 1 Ar Sg Vighati Lagna 18 Li 04' 12.74 " Swat 4 Li Pi Varnada Lagna 7 Ta 51' 28.09 " Krit 4 Ta Cn Sree Lagna 24 Sc 08' 02.25 " Jye 3 Sc Aq Pranapada Lagna 18 Li 47' 58.39 " Swat 4 Li Pi Indu Lagna 11 Ge 42' 50.15 " Ardr 2 Ge Cp Bhrigu Bindu 6 Cp 12' 28.11 " USha 3 Cp Aq Dhooma 15 Sc 48' 25.12 " Anu 4 Sc Sc Vyatipata 14 Le 11' 34.88 " PPha 1 Le Le Parivesha 14 Aq 11' 34.88 " Sata 3 Aq Aq Indra Chapa 15 Ta 48' 25.12 " Rohi 2 Ta Ta Upaketu 2 Ge 28' 25.12 " Mrig 3 Ge Li Kaala 28 Pi 14' 29.40 " Reva 4 Pi Pi Mrityu 14 Ta 04' 28.23 " Rohi 2 Ta Ta Artha Prahara 3 Ge 52' 42.08 " Mrig 4 Ge Sc Yama Ghantaka 22 Ge 37' 36.69 " Puna 1 Ge Ar Prana Sphuta 4 Pi 34' 17.84 " UBha 1 Pi Le Deha Sphuta 28 Le 59' 38.60 " UPha 1 Le Sg Mrityu Sphuta 29 Pi 27' 06.72 " Reva 4 Pi Pi Sookshma TriSphuta 3 Le 01' 03.16 " Magh 1 Le Ar TriSphuta 14 Cp 51' 15.62 " Srav 2 Cp Ta ChatusSphuta 17 Ar 19' 40.74 " Bhar 2 Ar Vi PanchaSphuta 18 Sc 01' 46.80 " Jye 1 Sc Sg Kunda 6 Cp 28' 55.52 " USha 3 Cp Aq +--------------+ |Mo Sa |As GL |Ke | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |-----------+-----------------------+-----------| |JuR Md | |Su Ma | | | |Me AL | | | | | | | | | | | | | |-----------| Rasi |-----------| |HL Gk | |Ve | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |-----------+-----------------------+-----------| | |Ra | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | +--------------+ Vimsottari Dasa (): Sat Sat 1926-08-09 Merc 1929-08-12 Ket 1932-04-18 Ven 1933-05-29 Sun 1936-07-30 Moon 1937-07-12 Mars 1939-02-09 Rah 1940-03-19 Jup 1943-01-25 Merc Merc 1945-08-09 Ket 1948-01-05 Ven 1949-01-01 Sun 1951-11-03 Moon 1952-09-09 Mars 1954-02-06 Rah 1955-02-03 Jup 1957-08-25 Sat 1959-11-30 Ket Ket 1962-08-09 Ven 1963-01-04 Sun 1964-03-04 Moon 1964-07-12 Mars 1965-02-08 Rah 1965-07-09 Jup 1966-07-28 Sat 1967-07-03 Merc 1968-08-12 Ven Ven 1969-08-09 Sun 1972-12-08 Moon 1973-12-09 Mars 1975-08-10 Rah 1976-10-10 Jup 1979-10-10 Sat 1982-06-08 Merc 1985-08-09 Ket 1988-06-07 Sun Sun 1989-08-09 Moon 1989-11-27 Mars 1990-05-26 Rah 1990-10-04 Jup 1991-08-29 Sat 1992-06-13 Merc 1993-05-26 Ket 1994-04-01 Ven 1994-08-10 Moon Moon 1995-08-10 Mars 1996-06-07 Rah 1997-01-07 Jup 1998-07-09 Sat 1999-11-10 Merc 2001-06-08 Ket 2002-11-09 Ven 2003-06-08 Sun 2005-02-06 Mars Mars 2005-08-09 Rah 2006-01-04 Jup 2007-01-22 Sat 2007-12-30 Merc 2009-02-06 Ket 2010-02-03 Ven 2010-07-03 Sun 2011-09-04 Moon 2012-01-08 Rah Rah 2012-08-09 Jup 2015-04-19 Sat 2017-09-16 Merc 2020-07-21 Ket 2023-02-06 Ven 2024-02-24 Sun 2027-02-24 Moon 2028-01-20 Mars 2029-07-22 Jup Jup 2030-08-10 Sat 2032-09-28 Merc 2035-04-07 Ket 2037-07-15 Ven 2038-06-21 Sun 2041-02-18 Moon 2041-12-09 Mars 2043-04-07 Rah 2044-03-13 2009/2/9 Davendra <davendrak please look into the article by an eminent scientist. November 4, 2006 Press Trust Of India Rourkela, February 09, 2009 First Published: 12:51 IST(9/2/2009) Last Updated: 12:54 IST(9/2/2009) Future lies in hands and not planets: Narlikar " Our future lies in our hands and not on the position of planets, " said eminent scientist and internationally acclaimed astro-physicist Prof J V Narlikar. He said there was a wrong concept that planets influenced the future. " The planets are powerless. Stand on your own feet, know your problem and try to solve it yourself. " The astronomer pointed out there were even differences among astrologers with western astrology differing from Indian astrology. " Astrology is not science, but superstition, he said. Astrologers knew that people came to them when they faced problems and kept them hanging so that they made repeated visits. Narlikar was speaking at a seminar 'Astrology-a pseudo-sience' here last night organised by the Orissa Rationalists Association. http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/Print.aspx?Id=eab5b5ad-2c22- 416f-bf1a-92a56bfd1904 © Copyright 2007 Hindustan Times Messages in this topic (1) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Database | Calendar ........ May Jupiter's light shine on us ....... MARKETPLACE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 I have seen many self-taught computer scientists, I am one among those. But when I said self-taught sciences, I was implying astrology, since many people learn astrology on their own and since they fail to see the head and tail of it, they question it's standards and fundamentals.  BTW, why we call astrology as a science is cuz it uses the principles of astronomy, which ofcourse every layman also has accept it as a science. And there was not much predictive astrology used like I mentioned during the time of Vedas. Predictive astrology is mostly post-vedic. --- On Thu, 2/12/09, Rohiniranjan <jyotish_vani wrote: Rohiniranjan <jyotish_vani [vedic astrology] Re: Astrology/Science?? vedic astrology Thursday, February 12, 2009, 5:36 PM Since my earlier response to your message was intercepted or gobbled up by :-) perhaps this one will too but I must press on! I have never really heard of a self-taught practicing scientist! I have known many many self-taught practicing jyotishis! Who are doing fine :-) Perhaps another reason to question the notion of Astrology being a Science? RR vedic astrology, serenity forever <serenity_forever4@ ...> wrote: > > I believe there is a standard for astrology (it's called Vedanga, so it should be taught the same way as vedas - that's the pre-req, not that many follow that way). And regarding the school, I believe there is a BVB in Delhi which has astrology school (headed by Shri.K.N.Rao) . There are only various methods developed during the last several years, but still there is only standard since our civilization started. Whether we decide to practice that standard or research other ways is what we choose. But there are standards, principles, rules, regulations, exceptions, loopholes in every science. > > Sometimes self-taught subjects can seem like they have no head or tail. Applies to astrology also. > > --- On Wed, 2/11/09, Rohiniranjan <jyotish_vani@ ...> wrote: > Rohiniranjan <jyotish_vani@ ...> > [vedic astrology] Re: Astrology/Science? ? > vedic astrology > Wednesday, February 11, 2009, 6:07 PM > > > > > > The 'model' that you are using would make sense to most who live in > > the worldly realm of computer science, medical science, engineering > > science and business science or even political science, but astrology > > is different: > > > > There is no regulatory body (though many claim to be!) that > > standardizes what an astrologer must know or how they must be > > certified! Heck there is not even a standard school or board like > > physicians or engineers have or even electricians and other > > technicians for that matter. > > > > There is no way of examining, questioning as to how much of the > > uncanny predictions arise from a strict use and following of > > technical astrology and how much of it involves other less scientific > > but effective psychic processes and yogic sadhanas! One of the > > generally regarded as successful (not 100% mind you...!) astrologer > > in a message and sharing on an earlier jyotish list shared that he > > took a chart to bed and did japams as he considered the chart > > visually and in his head and ultimately the answer popped. Even if it > > were then definable and describable by astrological rules, it was not > > a logical or astrological deduction but just a post-hoc confirmation > > that astrological rules work retrospectively. But when an astrologer > > is faced with multiple possibilities, often what gets tuned-into and > > picked on is para-astrological. > > > > To my way of observing, DiVINATION is perfect and completely fool > > proof, but it is way beyond just astrology or other technical > > approaches adopted. > > > > Astrology is great and most appealing to the rational thought but let > > us not lose its link with divination which is what the nativity wants > > to receive. > > > > That may be the reason why astrologer, even famous ones fail and are > > not 100% correct as no astrologer ever claims or has demonstrated to > > my recollection over the last several years that I have been > > following astrology from different distances and perspectives and > > hopefully will continue to... > > > > A wise friend, as I have written earlier on the web and elsewhere > > stated very succinctly and down to earth: Divination is a bird which > > has two wings: Technique and intuition. Take away one of the wings > > and the bird will just flop haplessly around and around but never get > > off the *ground*. > > > > vedic astrology, serenity forever > > <serenity_forever4@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > As simple as " Computer Science is a Science, but there are students > > who get an A grade, B grade, C, D or F " . > > >  > > > And especially, astrology is such a complicated science, to master > > it and actually get an A or A+ grade in it, might make that person > > renounce the physical earthly desires. That's what I have meant below. > > >  > > > And when people say, they cant trust the astrologer, it's cuz it's > > mostly astrologers with B or B+, C or C+ or even D grades. (based on > > how many of his/her predictions come true - again this is directly > > proportional to how well he/she have mastered the science and applied > > it practically) . > > > > > > --- On Wed, 2/11/09, Rohiniranjan <jyotish_vani@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > Rohiniranjan <jyotish_vani@ ...> > > > [vedic astrology] Re: Astrology/Science? ? > > > vedic astrology > > > Wednesday, February 11, 2009, 4:31 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I fail to see how the performance of astrology can be separated > > from > > > the performance of the astrologer? > > > > > > We are talking about " science and scientific " here but then we say > > in > > > the same breath people are saying that they have 'faith' in > > > astrology. Based on what evidence? :-) > > > > > > I hope it makes sense...! > > > > > > RR > > > > > > vedic astrology, serenity forever > > > <serenity_forever4@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > > > I totally agree. I believe in " Never blame astrology but the > > > astrologer " . But at the same time, astrology is such an ocean, that > > > too a complex ocean, person who really gets to the depths of it, I > > > wonder, will he/she remain a normal human? I feel after going to > > that > > > depth, they reform like saints with no attachments to any of the > > > earthly desires. I rarely heard about such people, rather yogis, > > who > > > are not known to anyone, yet predict stuff to people randomly, with > > > no expectations. > > > >  > > > > As such, in my personal experience, I have had some questions and > > > have been to 3 topnotch astrologers, all of them predicted almost > > the > > > same, but surprisingly, none of it is happening, rather the total > > > reverse is happening or gonna happen (as per the current trends). > > Yet > > > I dont blame them or thier calculations, whatever they said might > > > have been true, but I believe there is something fundamentally > > wrong > > > in the calculations or the system being used somewhere, maybe > > that's > > > why even some of the world-famous astrologers also fail to predict > > > 100% perfect. > > > >  > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 2/10/09, Haresh (Harry) Nathani <haresh1405@ ...> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Haresh (Harry) Nathani <haresh1405@ ...> > > > > Re: [vedic astrology] Re: Astrology/Science? ? > > > > vedic astrology > > > > Tuesday, February 10, 2009, 9:47 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear RR Ji > > > > > > > > In my experience as an astrologer, I also keep doing research on > > > each & every individual who approach me. I try my best to analyse > > > their speech, behaviour  patterns & then see the respective bhavs & > > > the planets which makes the individual behave accordingly. > > > > > > > > All planets in our charts marks our approach to the world the way > > > we see it. Astrological science does not fails but it is the > > > astrologer who fails in reading & predicting ones horoscope. It is > > > the astrologer who is responsible & to be blamed & not astrology. > > > > > > > > The placement 0f moon & its strenght in the chart rules our mind. > > > This is where the astrologer normally fails in analysis. Astrologer > > > or any individual with a afflicted moon will always be speculative > > & > > > will always give a personal opinion rather trying to give a picture > > > on how it should be. > > > > > > > > But u hv rightly mentioned astrology is a science & will always > > > remain a science. > > > >  > > > > GOD BLESS YOU > > > > WITH WARM REGARDS > > > > HARESH(HARRY) NATHANI > > > > VEDIC ASTOLOGER > > > > VAASTU CONSULTANT > > > > CELL +919867214103 > > > > (MUMBAI,INDIA) > > > >  > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > > Rohiniranjan <jyotish_vani@ hotmail.com> > > > > vedic astrology > > > > Wednesday, 11 February, 2009 7:38:15 AM > > > > [vedic astrology] Re: Astrology/Science? ? > > > > > > > > Dear Mr.. Nathani, > > > > > > > > While I respect your passionate stand in this matter, by > > > *summarily* > > > > dismissing what Narlikar or the previous scientists (Sagan for > > > > instance) or the next scientist states about astrology based on > > > their > > > > casual brush with a discipline that has kept some fairly cerebral > > > > people raptly absorbed for many many years and perhaps lifetimes - > > - > > > > we would be simply falling in the same rank and style as him or > > > > other 'rationalists' . > > > > > > > > I think instead of presenting a slogan (e.g., Astrology is not > > > > science and bunk!) with a counter-slogan ( " Astrology is a science > > > and > > > > has always been ... " ), both sides would have to forward > > > illustrations > > > > and arguments to justify their positions. And that takes a lot of > > > > time and dedication so then becomes a personal choice for each > > > > proponent and opponent! > > > > > > > > In that vein, I would applaud the contribution of Seymore and of > > > > Eysenck and Nias. I am certain all who believe that astrology is > > > > science have read these short offerings even if these may not be > > > > directly based in jyotish. > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, " Haresh \(Harry\) > > > Nathani " > > > > <haresh1405@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > >  Dear Mr. RR Ji > > > > > > > > > > We should dismiss him summarily. The fact will always remain > > that > > > > Jyotish Shashtra is science & not fiction or art. If Jyotish > > > > Shahshtra has got such a huge milage & acceptablity since 3 > > yugas, > > > it > > > > is because it is science. > > > > > > > > > > Rishi Parasher took almost seven births in this universe > > > > to understand & experience the practical acceptablity > > of Jyotish > > > > Shahshtra, but we are the most unfortunate, some Jyotish authors > > > have > > > > not understood the message of Rishi Parasher & speculatively have > > > > given their own personal opinions without trying to understand > > the > > > > effect of it on the neophytes. > > > > >  > > > > > GOD BLESS YOU > > > > > WITH WARM REGARDS > > > > > HARESH(HARRY) NATHANI > > > > > VEDIC ASTOLOGER > > > > > VAASTU CONSULTANT > > > > > CELL +919867214103 > > > > > (MUMBAI,INDIA) > > > > > http://groups. / group/Jyotish_ Remedies/ database > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > > > Rohiniranjan <jyotish_vani@ ...> > > > > > vedic astrology > > > > > Monday, 9 February, 2009 12:23:33 PM > > > > > [vedic astrology] Re: Astrology/Science? ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mr. Haresh (Harry) Nathani, > > > > > > > > > > Since you addressed your posting to <all> ... > > > > > > > > > > I think Dr.. Narlikar has had a pretty productive life, > > > > scientifically > > > > > and otherwise so let us not presume that he has anything > > personal > > > > > against astrology! > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps, unless I am frightfully wrong, he does not even know > > or > > > > care > > > > > to know about this forum or the two or three other jyotish fora > > > > that > > > > > we all frequent. > > > > > > > > > > While your personal passion for astrology as expressed is > > > > understood > > > > > and reciprocated amicably -- there have been jyotishi- > > astrophyic > > > > ists > > > > > like Mr. Jha who have been questioning the MATH and astro- > > > > coordinates > > > > > that the great body of astrologers have been utilizing for > > > decades > > > > > and perhaps centuries! > > > > > > > > > > What is your opinion? Should we listen to what Mr. Vinay Jha > > has > > > to > > > > > say or do we dismiss him summarily? > > > > > > > > > > The 'YOU' is metaphorical, of course, since I know that 'Harry' > > > > does > > > > > not really control what the Goddess JR Rowlings writes, nor > > what > > > > > MOGULS ultimately decide to do with their lives! > > > > > > > > > > vedic astrology, " Haresh \(Harry\) > > > > Nathani " > > > > > <haresh1405@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Devendra and all, > > > > > > > > > > > > It seems that the scientist must have had some unpleasent > > > > > experience with astrolgers or his 9th house may be having those > > > > > planets which makes the native see astrology as supertitious. > > > > > > > > > > > > We of course are influnced by the planets in the orbit. Our > > > > > actions, our tastes, our mind, our relationships, our > > > intelligence > > > > > and many more are influenced by the planets. If that is not the > > > > case > > > > > then why would there be any kind of disparity between all > > > > > individuals, why our thoughts are different, why do we think > > > > > differently & not similarly like all. > > > > > > > > > > > > Astrology is merely not limited to predicting various events > > in > > > > our > > > > > lives, it is also a guide which shows us how our past, > > present > > > > > &  future will look like and how best can we adapt ourselves > > to > > > > those > > > > > kind of situations, circumstances & events which have > > influenced > > > us > > > > > also the events which will be going to influence us in our > > > > > respective lives. > > > > > > > > > > > > The fact that u have posted this query, I am certain u r > > not > > > a > > > > > astrloger. > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > GOD BLESS YOU > > > > > > WITH WARM REGARDS > > > > > > HARESH(HARRY) NATHANI > > > > > > VEDIC ASTOLOGER > > > > > > VAASTU CONSULTANT > > > > > > CELL +919867214103 > > > > > > (MUMBAI,INDIA) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > please look into the article by an eminent scientist. > > > > > > > > > > > > November 4, 2006 > > > > > > Press Trust Of India > > > > > > Rourkela, February 09, 2009 > > > > > > First Published: 12:51 IST(9/2/2009) > > > > > > Last Updated: 12:54 IST(9/2/2009) > > > > > > Future lies in hands and not planets: Narlikar > > > > > > " Our future lies in our hands and not on the position of > > > > planets, " > > > > > > said eminent scientist and internationally acclaimed astro- > > > > > physicist > > > > > > Prof J V Narlikar. > > > > > > He said there was a wrong concept that planets influenced the > > > > > > future. " The planets are powerless. Stand on your own feet, > > > know > > > > > your > > > > > > problem and try to solve it yourself. " > > > > > > The astronomer pointed out there were even differences among > > > > > > astrologers with western astrology differing from Indian > > > > astrology. > > > > > > " Astrology is not science, but superstition, he said. > > > > > > Astrologers knew that people came to them when they faced > > > > problems > > > > > > and kept them hanging so that they made repeated visits. > > > > > > Narlikar was speaking at a seminar 'Astrology-a pseudo- > > sience' > > > > here > > > > > > last night organised by the Orissa Rationalists Association. > > > > > > http://www.hindusta ntimes.com/ StoryPage/ Print.aspx? > > > > Id=eab5b5ad- > > > > > 2c22- > > > > > > 416f-bf1a-92a56bfd1 904 > > > > > > © Copyright 2007 Hindustan Times > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > > > > Davendra <davendrak@ ..> > > > > > > vedic astrology > > > > > > Monday, 9 February, 2009 7:24:10 AM > > > > > > [vedic astrology] Astrology/Science? ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Go to > > > > > http://messenger. / invite/ > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 When we accept 'Astrology' or 'Jyotish ' as a Science, we must first talk scientifically. Rishi Parashara is said to be or have approx 7 births and we assume that as truth. And we build or try to build facts on that. Even if there was no Rishi Parashara in actuality... the seven births is a philosophical understanding, like all religions are. God and or Remedies is you and/or your strength/belief, which fortifies your mind.. but this is out of context. Sometimes I wonder why we spend much time and energy discussing if it is a science, superstition or not... like we spent much time wondering if Pluto was a planet or not.. byt Pluto existed and still does.. as whatever. You know Pluto is there and will be in the near Future, at least. Similarly..astrology/Jyotish. If Science can be proved wrong, doesnt astrology/Jyotish have the right to be proved wrong? After all, the proving and disproving is/was done by humans. RishiRahul vedic astrology jyotish_vani Wed, 11 Feb 2009 02:08:15 +0000 [vedic astrology] Re: Astrology/Science?? Dear Mr. Nathani, While I respect your passionate stand in this matter, by *summarily* dismissing what Narlikar or the previous scientists (Sagan for instance) or the next scientist states about astrology based on their casual brush with a discipline that has kept some fairly cerebral people raptly absorbed for many many years and perhaps lifetimes -- we would be simply falling in the same rank and style as him or other 'rationalists'. I think instead of presenting a slogan (e.g., Astrology is not science and bunk!) with a counter-slogan ( " Astrology is a science and has always been ... " ), both sides would have to forward illustrations and arguments to justify their positions. And that takes a lot of time and dedication so then becomes a personal choice for each proponent and opponent! In that vein, I would applaud the contribution of Seymore and of Eysenck and Nias. I am certain all who believe that astrology is science have read these short offerings even if these may not be directly based in jyotish. RR vedic astrology , " Haresh \(Harry\) Nathani " <haresh1405 wrote: > >  Dear Mr. RR Ji > > We should dismiss him summarily. The fact will always remain that Jyotish Shashtra is science & not fiction or art. If Jyotish Shahshtra has got such a huge milage & acceptablity since 3 yugas, it is because it is science. > > Rishi Parasher took almost seven births in this universe to understand & experience the practical acceptablity of Jyotish Shahshtra, but we are the most unfortunate, some Jyotish authors have not understood the message of Rishi Parasher & speculatively have given their own personal opinions without trying to understand the effect of it on the neophytes. >  > GOD BLESS YOU > WITH WARM REGARDS > HARESH(HARRY)NATHANI > VEDIC ASTOLOGER > VAASTU CONSULTANT > CELL +919867214103 > (MUMBAI,INDIA) > http://groups. / group/Jyotish_ Remedies/ database > > > > > > ________________________________ > Rohiniranjan <jyotish_vani > vedic astrology > Monday, 9 February, 2009 12:23:33 PM > [vedic astrology] Re: Astrology/Science?? > > > Mr. Haresh (Harry) Nathani, > > Since you addressed your posting to <all> ... > > I think Dr. Narlikar has had a pretty productive life, scientifically > and otherwise so let us not presume that he has anything personal > against astrology! > > Perhaps, unless I am frightfully wrong, he does not even know or care > to know about this forum or the two or three other jyotish fora that > we all frequent. > > While your personal passion for astrology as expressed is understood > and reciprocated amicably -- there have been jyotishi-astrophyic ists > like Mr. Jha who have been questioning the MATH and astro- coordinates > that the great body of astrologers have been utilizing for decades > and perhaps centuries! > > What is your opinion? Should we listen to what Mr. Vinay Jha has to > say or do we dismiss him summarily? > > The 'YOU' is metaphorical, of course, since I know that 'Harry' does > not really control what the Goddess JR Rowlings writes, nor what > MOGULS ultimately decide to do with their lives! > > vedic astrology, " Haresh \(Harry\) Nathani " > <haresh1405@ ...> wrote: > > > > Dear Devendra and all, > > > > It seems that the scientist must have had some unpleasent > experience with astrolgers or his 9th house may be having those > planets which makes the native see astrology as supertitious. > > > > We of course are influnced by the planets in the orbit. Our > actions, our tastes, our mind, our relationships, our intelligence > and many more are influenced by the planets. If that is not the case > then why would there be any kind of disparity between all > individuals, why our thoughts are different, why do we think > differently & not similarly like all. > > > > Astrology is merely not limited to predicting various events in our > lives, it is also a guide which shows us how our past, present > &  future will look like and how best can we adapt ourselves to those > kind of situations, circumstances & events which have influenced us > also the events which will be going to influence us in our > respective lives. > > > > The fact that u have posted this query, I am certain u r not a > astrloger. > > > >  > > GOD BLESS YOU > > WITH WARM REGARDS > > HARESH(HARRY) NATHANI > > VEDIC ASTOLOGER > > VAASTU CONSULTANT > > CELL +919867214103 > > (MUMBAI,INDIA) > > > > > > please look into the article by an eminent scientist. > > > > November 4, 2006 > > Press Trust Of India > > Rourkela, February 09, 2009 > > First Published: 12:51 IST(9/2/2009) > > Last Updated: 12:54 IST(9/2/2009) > > Future lies in hands and not planets: Narlikar > > " Our future lies in our hands and not on the position of planets, " > > said eminent scientist and internationally acclaimed astro- > physicist > > Prof J V Narlikar. > > He said there was a wrong concept that planets influenced the > > future. " The planets are powerless. Stand on your own feet, know > your > > problem and try to solve it yourself. " > > The astronomer pointed out there were even differences among > > astrologers with western astrology differing from Indian astrology. > > " Astrology is not science, but superstition, he said. > > Astrologers knew that people came to them when they faced problems > > and kept them hanging so that they made repeated visits. > > Narlikar was speaking at a seminar 'Astrology-a pseudo-sience' here > > last night organised by the Orissa Rationalists Association. > > http://www.hindusta ntimes.com/ StoryPage/ Print.aspx? Id=eab5b5ad- > 2c22- > > 416f-bf1a-92a56bfd1 904 > > © Copyright 2007 Hindustan Times > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > Davendra <davendrak@ ..> > > vedic astrology > > Monday, 9 February, 2009 7:24:10 AM > > [vedic astrology] Astrology/Science? ? > > > > > > > > Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Go to > http://messenger. / invite/ > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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