Guest guest Posted September 19, 2000 Report Share Posted September 19, 2000 Dear Hanna, Sorry for delay in replying--I will be traveling for next two weeks also and wont be able to reply. I am not sure of the classical source (if any) of this rule although I suspect there is one and will see if I can find it. I got it from S.K.Mehta " New Dimensions in Hindu Astrology, " (Sagar 1986, 1992) p. 106 where it says " Suppose if a planet is in its exaltation & is associated with Sat or asp by Sat, then this planet will act as a planet in its fall not only for that house which is occ. by it but even for its own house or houses. Similarly if a planet is in its fall & is assoc with Sat or asp by Sat, then this planet will act as a planet in its exaltation not only for that house, which is occupied by it but even for his own house or houses. " This will be an interesting rule to test by some case studies. Be well, Sat Nam, Sat Siri Kaur 2000 wrote: > Dear Sat Siri, > I came across an article that you had written in Dr Charaks Vedic Astrology > magazine, volume 2 #3 dated May/June 1998, about Bill Clinton. > In that you had written that the aspect of Saturn on a debilitated planet > gives it the strength of an exalted planet. > I wanted to know if this was just in the case of Clintons chart or if this > was a general rule from the texts. > Regards..........Hanna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2000 Report Share Posted September 19, 2000 Hanna, one other interesting point: somewhat related mentioned in the book: " Jup produces bad results for a house if it is occ by Jup in Cap or its trines Tau or Vir. It also loses its male effects. But if the Jup becomes the lord of 5th house (or whatever house is being considered) and has got an exchange with a natural malefic situated in the 5th (or whatever) house it will give rise to NON-LIVING matters of the 5th house i.e. education but not the LIVING matters i.e. children. [in other words it will make the likelihood of having children less but of having good education more]. But if the 5th house is occupied by Jupiter situated in Cap, Tau or Vir and 5th lord has an exchange with Jupiter only, it will become favorable for LIVING things and anti for NON-LIVING things. Otherwise Jup situated in such debilitated signs in 5th without an exchange with 5th lord will be anti for children (LIVING) and favorable for NON-LIVING (education.) " (p. 176 paraphrase) The simple idea is that benefics in a house help the LIVING matters of the house and depress the non-living matters, whereas natural malefics help the non-living and suppress or harm the living. Be well, Sat Nam, Sat Siri Kaur 2000 wrote: > Dear Sat Siri, > thanks for your response.This information is really interesting and I wonder > if it applies to the nodes also? > I am going to try and get this book,as I did not know of this before. > Regards..........Hanna > > Sat Siri Khalsa <satsiri > 2000 <2000; varahamihira (AT) eGroups (DOT) com > <varahamihira (AT) eGroups (DOT) com> > Tuesday, September 19, 2000 11:18 AM > Re: Saturn > > >Dear Hanna, > > Sorry for delay in replying--I will be traveling for next two weeks > also > >and wont be able to reply. > > I am not sure of the classical source (if any) of this rule although > I > >suspect there is one and will see if I can find it. I got it from > S.K.Mehta > > " New Dimensions in Hindu Astrology, " (Sagar 1986, 1992) p. 106 where it > says > > " Suppose if a planet is in its exaltation & is associated with Sat or asp > by > >Sat, then this planet will act as a planet in its fall not only for that > house > >which is occ. by it but even for its own house or houses. Similarly if a > >planet is in its fall & is assoc with Sat or asp by Sat, then this planet > will > >act as a planet in its exaltation not only for that house, which is > occupied by > >it but even for his own house or houses. " > >This will be an interesting rule to test by some case studies. > > > > Be well, > > Sat Nam, > > Sat Siri Kaur > > > >2000 wrote: > > > >> Dear Sat Siri, > >> I came across an article that you had written in Dr Charaks Vedic > Astrology > >> magazine, volume 2 #3 dated May/June 1998, about Bill Clinton. > >> In that you had written that the aspect of Saturn on a debilitated planet > >> gives it the strength of an exalted planet. > >> I wanted to know if this was just in the case of Clintons chart or if > this > >> was a general rule from the texts. > >> Regards..........Hanna > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 2000 Report Share Posted September 20, 2000 Dear Sat Siri Kaur, sounds like there are lots of tid bits in this book.I must get it! Thankyou and have a good trip.Hope to see you in Orlando. Regards........Hanna Sat Siri Khalsa <satsiri varahamihira (AT) eGroups (DOT) com <varahamihira (AT) eGroups (DOT) com> Tuesday, September 19, 2000 4:42 PM [sri Guru] Re: Saturn > >Hanna, > one other interesting point: somewhat related mentioned in the book: > " Jup produces bad results for a house if it is occ by Jup in Cap or its trines >Tau or Vir. It also loses its male effects. But if the Jup becomes the lord of >5th house (or whatever house is being considered) and has got an exchange with a >natural malefic >situated in the 5th (or whatever) house it will give rise to NON-LIVING matters >of the 5th house i.e. education but not the LIVING matters i.e. children. [in >other words it will make the likelihood of having children less but of having >good education more]. But if the 5th house is occupied by Jupiter situated in >Cap, Tau or Vir and 5th lord has an exchange with Jupiter only, it will become >favorable for LIVING things and anti for NON-LIVING things. Otherwise Jup >situated in such debilitated signs in 5th without an exchange with 5th lord will >be anti for children (LIVING) and favorable for NON-LIVING (education.) " (p. >176 paraphrase) The simple idea is that benefics in a house help the LIVING >matters of the house and depress the non-living matters, whereas natural >malefics help the non-living and suppress or harm the living. > >Be well, >Sat Nam, >Sat Siri Kaur > > >2000 wrote: > >> Dear Sat Siri, >> thanks for your response.This information is really interesting and I wonder >> if it applies to the nodes also? >> I am going to try and get this book,as I did not know of this before. >> Regards..........Hanna >> >> Sat Siri Khalsa <satsiri >> 2000 <2000; varahamihira (AT) eGroups (DOT) com >> <varahamihira (AT) eGroups (DOT) com> >> Tuesday, September 19, 2000 11:18 AM >> Re: Saturn >> >> >Dear Hanna, >> > Sorry for delay in replying--I will be traveling for next two weeks >> also >> >and wont be able to reply. >> > I am not sure of the classical source (if any) of this rule although >> I >> >suspect there is one and will see if I can find it. I got it from >> S.K.Mehta >> > " New Dimensions in Hindu Astrology, " (Sagar 1986, 1992) p. 106 where it >> says >> > " Suppose if a planet is in its exaltation & is associated with Sat or asp >> by >> >Sat, then this planet will act as a planet in its fall not only for that >> house >> >which is occ. by it but even for its own house or houses. Similarly if a >> >planet is in its fall & is assoc with Sat or asp by Sat, then this planet >> will >> >act as a planet in its exaltation not only for that house, which is >> occupied by >> >it but even for his own house or houses. " >> >This will be an interesting rule to test by some case studies. >> > >> > Be well, >> > Sat Nam, >> > Sat Siri Kaur >> > >> >2000 wrote: >> > >> >> Dear Sat Siri, >> >> I came across an article that you had written in Dr Charaks Vedic >> Astrology >> >> magazine, volume 2 #3 dated May/June 1998, about Bill Clinton. >> >> In that you had written that the aspect of Saturn on a debilitated planet >> >> gives it the strength of an exalted planet. >> >> I wanted to know if this was just in the case of Clintons chart or if >> this >> >> was a general rule from the texts. >> >> Regards..........Hanna >> > >> > > > >OM TAT SAT >Archive: varahamihira >Info: varahamihira/info.html > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 2000 Report Share Posted September 20, 2000 Jaya Jagannath Dear Sat Siri, I know of a chart with Virgo Lagna and Jupiter in the fifth in debility. With the advent of Jupiter dasa the native became mental and has since remained a patient of schizophrenia. As regards children, he has two very handsome, briliant and very competent sons. This runs contrary to what you state. Thus the beneficence or maleficence of a planet is seen from its placement both from lagna and other bhava, besides a host of other factors. Here there is no exchange with saturn and we cannot say that any yoga has worked. " When Jupiter becomes malefic there shall be a fire hazard... " there was a fire hazard during one of the plays in which he was acting and thereafter he did become mad. With Best Wishes, Sanjay Rath - 2000 <2000 <varahamihira > Wednesday, September 20, 2000 5:36 PM Re: [sri Guru] Re: Saturn > > Dear Sat Siri Kaur, > sounds like there are lots of tid bits in this book.I must get it! > Thankyou and have a good trip.Hope to see you in Orlando. > Regards........Hanna > > Sat Siri Khalsa <satsiri > varahamihira (AT) eGroups (DOT) com <varahamihira (AT) eGroups (DOT) com> > Tuesday, September 19, 2000 4:42 PM > [sri Guru] Re: Saturn > > > > > >Hanna, > > one other interesting point: somewhat related mentioned in the book: > > " Jup produces bad results for a house if it is occ by Jup in Cap or its > trines > >Tau or Vir. It also loses its male effects. But if the Jup becomes the > lord of > >5th house (or whatever house is being considered) and has got an exchange > with a > >natural malefic > >situated in the 5th (or whatever) house it will give rise to NON-LIVING > matters > >of the 5th house i.e. education but not the LIVING matters i.e. children. > [in > >other words it will make the likelihood of having children less but of > having > >good education more]. But if the 5th house is occupied by Jupiter > situated in > >Cap, Tau or Vir and 5th lord has an exchange with Jupiter only, it will > become > >favorable for LIVING things and anti for NON-LIVING things. Otherwise Jup > >situated in such debilitated signs in 5th without an exchange with 5th lord > will > >be anti for children (LIVING) and favorable for NON-LIVING (education.) " > (p. > >176 paraphrase) The simple idea is that benefics in a house help the > LIVING > >matters of the house and depress the non-living matters, whereas natural > >malefics help the non-living and suppress or harm the living. > > > >Be well, > >Sat Nam, > >Sat Siri Kaur > > > > > >2000 wrote: > > > >> Dear Sat Siri, > >> thanks for your response.This information is really interesting and I > wonder > >> if it applies to the nodes also? > >> I am going to try and get this book,as I did not know of this before. > >> Regards..........Hanna > >> > >> Sat Siri Khalsa <satsiri > >> 2000 <2000; varahamihira (AT) eGroups (DOT) com > >> <varahamihira (AT) eGroups (DOT) com> > >> Tuesday, September 19, 2000 11:18 AM > >> Re: Saturn > >> > >> >Dear Hanna, > >> > Sorry for delay in replying--I will be traveling for next two > weeks > >> also > >> >and wont be able to reply. > >> > I am not sure of the classical source (if any) of this rule > although > >> I > >> >suspect there is one and will see if I can find it. I got it from > >> S.K.Mehta > >> > " New Dimensions in Hindu Astrology, " (Sagar 1986, 1992) p. 106 where it > >> says > >> > " Suppose if a planet is in its exaltation & is associated with Sat or > asp > >> by > >> >Sat, then this planet will act as a planet in its fall not only for that > >> house > >> >which is occ. by it but even for its own house or houses. Similarly if > a > >> >planet is in its fall & is assoc with Sat or asp by Sat, then this > planet > >> will > >> >act as a planet in its exaltation not only for that house, which is > >> occupied by > >> >it but even for his own house or houses. " > >> >This will be an interesting rule to test by some case studies. > >> > > >> > Be well, > >> > Sat Nam, > >> > Sat Siri Kaur > >> > > >> >2000 wrote: > >> > > >> >> Dear Sat Siri, > >> >> I came across an article that you had written in Dr Charaks Vedic > >> Astrology > >> >> magazine, volume 2 #3 dated May/June 1998, about Bill Clinton. > >> >> In that you had written that the aspect of Saturn on a debilitated > planet > >> >> gives it the strength of an exalted planet. > >> >> I wanted to know if this was just in the case of Clintons chart or if > >> this > >> >> was a general rule from the texts. > >> >> Regards..........Hanna > >> > > >> > > > > > > >OM TAT SAT > >Archive: varahamihira > >Info: varahamihira/info.html > > > > > > > > > > OM TAT SAT > Archive: varahamihira > Info: varahamihira/info.html > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 2000 Report Share Posted September 20, 2000 Dear Sanjay ji, Whenever trying to support or contest a principle working inductively from the details there is always the chance to be blocked from proof positive by the multitude of idiosyncracies in any chart. This is true. The author's other point was that an aspect of Saturn, and he is referring specifically to graha drishti, can make a debilitated planet act like exalted. So in this case because of the excellent sons if there is even a graha drishti of Saturn on this Jupiter in Capricorn it would be an example of that point. The mental problem can be understood perhaps from Jupiter's aspect into another earth sign in lagna and its weakness in the fifth and its earth aspect on the ninth. As the fourth lord debilitated it also weakens the mental functioning and capacity for santokh. As seventh lord debilitated it weakens the other place of satya. It has argala on the fiery fourth and on the seventh and will not let them be in peace. Thank you for your comments!! Sincerely, Sat Nam, Sat Siri Kaur Sanjay Rath wrote: > > Jaya Jagannath > Dear Sat Siri, > I know of a chart with Virgo Lagna and Jupiter in the fifth in debility. > With the advent of Jupiter dasa the native became mental and has since > remained a patient of schizophrenia. As regards children, he has two very > handsome, briliant and very competent sons. This runs contrary to what you > state. Thus the beneficence or maleficence of a planet is seen from its > placement both from lagna and other bhava, besides a host of other factors. > Here there is no exchange with saturn and we cannot say that any yoga has > worked. > " When Jupiter becomes malefic there shall be a fire hazard... " there was > a fire hazard during one of the plays in which he was acting and thereafter > he did become mad. > With Best Wishes, > Sanjay Rath > - > 2000 <2000 > <varahamihira > > Wednesday, September 20, 2000 5:36 PM > Re: [sri Guru] Re: Saturn > > > > > Dear Sat Siri Kaur, > > sounds like there are lots of tid bits in this book.I must get it! > > Thankyou and have a good trip.Hope to see you in Orlando. > > Regards........Hanna > > > > Sat Siri Khalsa <satsiri > > varahamihira (AT) eGroups (DOT) com <varahamihira (AT) eGroups (DOT) com> > > Tuesday, September 19, 2000 4:42 PM > > [sri Guru] Re: Saturn > > > > > > > > > >Hanna, > > > one other interesting point: somewhat related mentioned in the > book: > > > " Jup produces bad results for a house if it is occ by Jup in Cap or its > > trines > > >Tau or Vir. It also loses its male effects. But if the Jup becomes the > > lord of > > >5th house (or whatever house is being considered) and has got an exchange > > with a > > >natural malefic > > >situated in the 5th (or whatever) house it will give rise to NON-LIVING > > matters > > >of the 5th house i.e. education but not the LIVING matters i.e. children. > > [in > > >other words it will make the likelihood of having children less but of > > having > > >good education more]. But if the 5th house is occupied by Jupiter > > situated in > > >Cap, Tau or Vir and 5th lord has an exchange with Jupiter only, it will > > become > > >favorable for LIVING things and anti for NON-LIVING things. Otherwise > Jup > > >situated in such debilitated signs in 5th without an exchange with 5th > lord > > will > > >be anti for children (LIVING) and favorable for NON-LIVING (education.) " > > (p. > > >176 paraphrase) The simple idea is that benefics in a house help the > > LIVING > > >matters of the house and depress the non-living matters, whereas natural > > >malefics help the non-living and suppress or harm the living. > > > > > >Be well, > > >Sat Nam, > > >Sat Siri Kaur > > > > > > > > >2000 wrote: > > > > > >> Dear Sat Siri, > > >> thanks for your response.This information is really interesting and I > > wonder > > >> if it applies to the nodes also? > > >> I am going to try and get this book,as I did not know of this before. > > >> Regards..........Hanna > > >> > > >> Sat Siri Khalsa <satsiri > > >> 2000 <2000; varahamihira (AT) eGroups (DOT) com > > >> <varahamihira (AT) eGroups (DOT) com> > > >> Tuesday, September 19, 2000 11:18 AM > > >> Re: Saturn > > >> > > >> >Dear Hanna, > > >> > Sorry for delay in replying--I will be traveling for next two > > weeks > > >> also > > >> >and wont be able to reply. > > >> > I am not sure of the classical source (if any) of this rule > > although > > >> I > > >> >suspect there is one and will see if I can find it. I got it from > > >> S.K.Mehta > > >> > " New Dimensions in Hindu Astrology, " (Sagar 1986, 1992) p. 106 where > it > > >> says > > >> > " Suppose if a planet is in its exaltation & is associated with Sat or > > asp > > >> by > > >> >Sat, then this planet will act as a planet in its fall not only for > that > > >> house > > >> >which is occ. by it but even for its own house or houses. Similarly > if > > a > > >> >planet is in its fall & is assoc with Sat or asp by Sat, then this > > planet > > >> will > > >> >act as a planet in its exaltation not only for that house, which is > > >> occupied by > > >> >it but even for his own house or houses. " > > >> >This will be an interesting rule to test by some case studies. > > >> > > > >> > Be well, > > >> > Sat Nam, > > >> > Sat Siri Kaur > > >> > > > >> >2000 wrote: > > >> > > > >> >> Dear Sat Siri, > > >> >> I came across an article that you had written in Dr Charaks Vedic > > >> Astrology > > >> >> magazine, volume 2 #3 dated May/June 1998, about Bill Clinton. > > >> >> In that you had written that the aspect of Saturn on a debilitated > > planet > > >> >> gives it the strength of an exalted planet. > > >> >> I wanted to know if this was just in the case of Clintons chart or > if > > >> this > > >> >> was a general rule from the texts. > > >> >> Regards..........Hanna > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >OM TAT SAT > > >Archive: varahamihira > > >Info: varahamihira/info.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OM TAT SAT > > Archive: varahamihira > > Info: varahamihira/info.html > > > > > > > > OM TAT SAT > Archive: varahamihira > Info: varahamihira/info.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2000 Report Share Posted September 21, 2000 Jaya Jagannath Dear Sat Siri, The point I am trying to make is that it is very difficult to generalise in this regard. The aspect or Saturn on Jupiter in the fifth house will imply the following (A) " Saturn as the fifth Lord aspects the fifth house thereby strengthening the Bhava or house " and (B) " the aspect or association of the lord any bhava with the karaka of the same bhava is a very powerful yoga for fruits and benevolence from that bhava " Thus, this will apply to all Bhava's. We had recently discussed the effects of the placement of Jupiter in Capricorn and Yasomatinandana Prabhu was quite surprised at the excellent results given in Jataka Parijatha for this. Excellent results have also been given for the placement of Jupiter in Taurus and Libra whereas they are not so good in the signs of Mercury. My Learning & Teaching is based on a host of books of the tradition and " DEVA GURU is the greatest benefic, even if in Capricorn in debility. None can equal the great benefactor in Daya (Mercy), Dana (Giving) and Satya (Truth). He alone is the real representative of God in the chart " Guru is always the greatest and best and keep this teaching above all others. Jupiter can be malefic in a dasa and could represent the curse of a teacher as in the chart of sri Rama, but then there is a greater purpose. That is why Bhagavan Sri Rama was very dutiful towards His teacher & Guru's. His is the real life example of Guru Bhakti. Again I always endeavor to try to enunciate a principle. Here we are trying to find out the reasons for the results the author attributes to the placement of Jupiter in earthy signs. Mercury rules Prithvi Tatwa and Guru in the signs of Mercury does not give good results, but its own signs are fortified. Have you seen the page http://www.sjvc.net/Jyotish_Class/jyotishg.htm ? With Best Wishes, Sanjay Rath - Sat Siri Khalsa <satsiri <varahamihira > Wednesday, September 20, 2000 11:58 PM Re: [sri Guru] Re: Saturn > > Dear Sanjay ji, > Whenever trying to support or contest a principle working inductively > from the details there > is always the chance to be blocked from proof positive by the multitude of > idiosyncracies in any chart. This is true. > The author's other point was that an aspect of Saturn, and he is referring > specifically to graha drishti, > can make a debilitated planet act like exalted. So in this case because of the > excellent sons if > there is even a graha drishti of Saturn on this Jupiter in Capricorn it would be > an example of that point. > The mental problem can be understood perhaps from Jupiter's aspect into another > earth sign in lagna > and its weakness in the fifth and its earth aspect on the ninth. As the fourth > lord debilitated it also > weakens the mental functioning and capacity for santokh. As seventh lord > debilitated it weakens the other place > of satya. It has argala on the fiery fourth and on the seventh and will not let > them be in peace. > Thank you for your comments!! > Sincerely, > Sat Nam, > Sat Siri Kaur > Sanjay Rath wrote: > > > > > Jaya Jagannath > > Dear Sat Siri, > > I know of a chart with Virgo Lagna and Jupiter in the fifth in debility. > > With the advent of Jupiter dasa the native became mental and has since > > remained a patient of schizophrenia. As regards children, he has two very > > handsome, briliant and very competent sons. This runs contrary to what you > > state. Thus the beneficence or maleficence of a planet is seen from its > > placement both from lagna and other bhava, besides a host of other factors. > > Here there is no exchange with saturn and we cannot say that any yoga has > > worked. > > " When Jupiter becomes malefic there shall be a fire hazard... " there was > > a fire hazard during one of the plays in which he was acting and thereafter > > he did become mad. > > With Best Wishes, > > Sanjay Rath > > - > > 2000 <2000 > > <varahamihira > > > Wednesday, September 20, 2000 5:36 PM > > Re: [sri Guru] Re: Saturn > > > > > > > > Dear Sat Siri Kaur, > > > sounds like there are lots of tid bits in this book.I must get it! > > > Thankyou and have a good trip.Hope to see you in Orlando. > > > Regards........Hanna > > > > > > Sat Siri Khalsa <satsiri > > > varahamihira (AT) eGroups (DOT) com <varahamihira (AT) eGroups (DOT) com> > > > Tuesday, September 19, 2000 4:42 PM > > > [sri Guru] Re: Saturn > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Hanna, > > > > one other interesting point: somewhat related mentioned in the > > book: > > > > " Jup produces bad results for a house if it is occ by Jup in Cap or its > > > trines > > > >Tau or Vir. It also loses its male effects. But if the Jup becomes the > > > lord of > > > >5th house (or whatever house is being considered) and has got an exchange > > > with a > > > >natural malefic > > > >situated in the 5th (or whatever) house it will give rise to NON-LIVING > > > matters > > > >of the 5th house i.e. education but not the LIVING matters i.e. children. > > > [in > > > >other words it will make the likelihood of having children less but of > > > having > > > >good education more]. But if the 5th house is occupied by Jupiter > > > situated in > > > >Cap, Tau or Vir and 5th lord has an exchange with Jupiter only, it will > > > become > > > >favorable for LIVING things and anti for NON-LIVING things. Otherwise > > Jup > > > >situated in such debilitated signs in 5th without an exchange with 5th > > lord > > > will > > > >be anti for children (LIVING) and favorable for NON-LIVING (education.) " > > > (p. > > > >176 paraphrase) The simple idea is that benefics in a house help the > > > LIVING > > > >matters of the house and depress the non-living matters, whereas natural > > > >malefics help the non-living and suppress or harm the living. > > > > > > > >Be well, > > > >Sat Nam, > > > >Sat Siri Kaur > > > > > > > > > > > >2000 wrote: > > > > > > > >> Dear Sat Siri, > > > >> thanks for your response.This information is really interesting and I > > > wonder > > > >> if it applies to the nodes also? > > > >> I am going to try and get this book,as I did not know of this before. > > > >> Regards..........Hanna > > > >> > > > >> Sat Siri Khalsa <satsiri > > > >> 2000 <2000; varahamihira (AT) eGroups (DOT) com > > > >> <varahamihira (AT) eGroups (DOT) com> > > > >> Tuesday, September 19, 2000 11:18 AM > > > >> Re: Saturn > > > >> > > > >> >Dear Hanna, > > > >> > Sorry for delay in replying--I will be traveling for next two > > > weeks > > > >> also > > > >> >and wont be able to reply. > > > >> > I am not sure of the classical source (if any) of this rule > > > although > > > >> I > > > >> >suspect there is one and will see if I can find it. I got it from > > > >> S.K.Mehta > > > >> > " New Dimensions in Hindu Astrology, " (Sagar 1986, 1992) p. 106 where > > it > > > >> says > > > >> > " Suppose if a planet is in its exaltation & is associated with Sat or > > > asp > > > >> by > > > >> >Sat, then this planet will act as a planet in its fall not only for > > that > > > >> house > > > >> >which is occ. by it but even for its own house or houses. Similarly > > if > > > a > > > >> >planet is in its fall & is assoc with Sat or asp by Sat, then this > > > planet > > > >> will > > > >> >act as a planet in its exaltation not only for that house, which is > > > >> occupied by > > > >> >it but even for his own house or houses. " > > > >> >This will be an interesting rule to test by some case studies. > > > >> > > > > >> > Be well, > > > >> > Sat Nam, > > > >> > Sat Siri Kaur > > > >> > > > > >> >2000 wrote: > > > >> > > > > >> >> Dear Sat Siri, > > > >> >> I came across an article that you had written in Dr Charaks Vedic > > > >> Astrology > > > >> >> magazine, volume 2 #3 dated May/June 1998, about Bill Clinton. > > > >> >> In that you had written that the aspect of Saturn on a debilitated > > > planet > > > >> >> gives it the strength of an exalted planet. > > > >> >> I wanted to know if this was just in the case of Clintons chart or > > if > > > >> this > > > >> >> was a general rule from the texts. > > > >> >> Regards..........Hanna > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >OM TAT SAT > > > >Archive: varahamihira > > > >Info: varahamihira/info.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OM TAT SAT > > > Archive: varahamihira > > > Info: varahamihira/info.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > OM TAT SAT > > Archive: varahamihira > > Info: varahamihira/info.html > > > OM TAT SAT > Archive: varahamihira > Info: varahamihira/info.html > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2000 Report Share Posted September 21, 2000 Dear Gurudeva Sanjaya, pranaam and Hare Krishna, You wrote: >My Learning & Teaching is based on a host of books of the tradition and " DEVA GURU is the greatest benefic, even if in Capricorn in debility. None can equal the great benefactor in Daya (Mercy), Dana (Giving) and Satya (Truth). He alone is the real representative of God in the chart " Guru is always the greatest and best and keep this teaching above all others.< Would you be so kind as to say a few words about Jupiter´s effect when he rules malefic houses such as for Capricorn (12 and 3) or Taurus (8 and 11) or Libra (3 and 6)? I vaguely remember reading somewhere that natural benefics ruling bad houses harm in a different manner than natural malefics, in the sense that the harm is subjectively experienced as less painful. Is this correct? For instance, I have a chart of a Capricorn born baby before me who has Lagna Lord Saturn in house five with Jupiter Lord of 12 and 3. From there Jupiter not only aspects Lagna by graha and rashi drishti but also Sun, Mars and Mercury in house 7. Jupiter influences almost every planet in the chart, including Lagna and Lagna Lord. Will Jupiters rulership of house 12 harm the baby´s health and general well being? In the quote above you seem to imply that Jupiter is the greatest benefic under all circumstances. Will Jupiter also have a benefic effect in this chart? If yes, how will it manifest? Regards, Anantarupa Date of Birth: August 11, 2000 Time of Birth: 7:48:00 pm Time Zone of Birth: 2:00 East of GMT Longitude of Birth: 13 E 02 Latitude of Birth: 47 N 48 Planet Position Pada CharaK Ascdt 12 Cp 20 Sravanam 1 - Sun 25 Cn 29 Aasresha 3 AK Moon 17 Sg 27 Poo.Shaa. 2 AmK Mars 13 Cn 02 Pushyami 3 PiK Mercury 14 Cn 37 Pushyami 4 BK Jupiter 13 Ta 42 Rohini 2 MK Venus 12 Le 18 Makha 4 PK Saturn 6 Ta 13 Krittika 3 GK Rahu 29 Ge 21 Punarvasu 3 DK Ketu 29 Sg 21 U.Shaa. 1 - BhavaLg 22 Aq 13 Poo.Bhaa. 1 - HoraLg 19 Vi 29 Hastha 3 - GhatiLg 11 Ge 20 Aardra 2 - + Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2000 Report Share Posted September 21, 2000 Jaya Jagannath Dear Ananatarupa Prabhu, Jupiter is the representative of Bhagavan in the chart and hence its infuence is always beneficial. Let us examine the case under considerstion. The Lagna is Capricorn and Jupiter rules the houses 12 and 3. Both are considered dusthana and the latter is an Upachaya (house of growth). Being the third lord in the fifth with the Lagna lord, it gives dhimantah Yoga and the child is granted intelligence, especially from Brihaspati. It indicates Govt service or working in big businesses or very big institutions. At least one brother or sister of the native will be very capable and will shine in life bringing a lot of glory to the family. These are the blessings of the third lord in the fifth and that too Jupiter. Now come to the 12th house lordship.Here Jupiter rules the expenses and shows expenses in the most deserving causes. As 12th lord conjoins the Lagna lord, the native shall be a spendthrift and shall give away all his money to his Guru and such spiritual and religious deserving people/institutions. This shows a noble soul. Secondly, Jupiter conjoining the Paka lagna gives protection from many evils. Brahma Yoga obtains by the conjunction of Saturn and Jupiter and the native will be very learned in traditional subjects, spirituality and will have a well formed personality with great knowledge. Now, let us come to the Minus points. The AL is in Virgo and UL is in Libra. Thus the native will always stick to his Dharma and will be completely ignored by his/her spouse. This may lead to the break in marriage if Mars is ill placed. In this manner I can go on. With Best Wishes, Sanjay Rath - Arno Holzmann <ArnoHolzmann <varahamihira > Thursday, September 21, 2000 8:15 PM Re: [sri Guru] Re: Saturn > Dear Gurudeva Sanjaya, pranaam and Hare Krishna, > > You wrote: > > >My Learning & Teaching is based on a host of books of the tradition and > " DEVA GURU is the greatest benefic, even if in Capricorn in debility. None > can equal the great benefactor in Daya (Mercy), Dana (Giving) and Satya > (Truth). He alone is the real representative of God in the chart " Guru is > always the greatest and best and keep this teaching above all others.< > > Would you be so kind as to say a few words about Jupiter´s effect when > he rules malefic houses such as for Capricorn (12 and 3) or Taurus (8 and > 11) > or Libra (3 and 6)? I vaguely remember reading somewhere that natural > benefics ruling bad houses harm in a different manner than natural > malefics, in the sense that the harm is subjectively experienced > as less painful. Is this correct? > > For instance, I have a chart of a Capricorn born baby before me > who has Lagna Lord Saturn in house five with Jupiter Lord of 12 and 3. > From there Jupiter not only aspects Lagna by graha and rashi drishti > but also Sun, Mars and Mercury in house 7. Jupiter influences almost > every planet in the chart, including Lagna and Lagna Lord. Will > Jupiters rulership of house 12 harm the baby´s health and general > well being? In the quote above you seem to imply that Jupiter is the > greatest > benefic under all circumstances. Will Jupiter also have a benefic effect > in this chart? If yes, how will it manifest? > > Regards, Anantarupa > > > Date of Birth: August 11, 2000 > Time of Birth: 7:48:00 pm > Time Zone of Birth: 2:00 East of GMT > Longitude of Birth: 13 E 02 > Latitude of Birth: 47 N 48 > > > Planet Position Pada CharaK > > Ascdt 12 Cp 20 Sravanam 1 - > Sun 25 Cn 29 Aasresha 3 AK > Moon 17 Sg 27 Poo.Shaa. 2 AmK > Mars 13 Cn 02 Pushyami 3 PiK > Mercury 14 Cn 37 Pushyami 4 BK > Jupiter 13 Ta 42 Rohini 2 MK > Venus 12 Le 18 Makha 4 PK > Saturn 6 Ta 13 Krittika 3 GK > Rahu 29 Ge 21 Punarvasu 3 DK > Ketu 29 Sg 21 U.Shaa. 1 - > BhavaLg 22 Aq 13 Poo.Bhaa. 1 - > HoraLg 19 Vi 29 Hastha 3 - > GhatiLg 11 Ge 20 Aardra 2 - > > > > + > > OM TAT SAT > Archive: varahamihira > Info: varahamihira/info.html > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2006 Report Share Posted March 15, 2006 That is interesting, because I've recently looked at major transits of Saturn to my Sun, and realized that Saturn is acting a lot like Uranus. Things dissolve and a new order takes over. Change explodes, but there's always a sense of reorder and restructure. Like shaking a snow globe and letting the snow settle again, but in different spots. Hi, to Tosh and Deb. Andi - " therese92003 " <eastwest Tuesday, March 14, 2006 2:05 PM Saturn > Chris and all, > > Think about this for a moment. Uranus and Saturn supposedly co-rule a > sign of the zodiac. Shouldn't they share something in common? Is > Saturn really structured? Saturn rules old age when everything starts > to fall apart. Saturn is said to rule ancient artifacts which are > generally in a decayed condition. > > Saturn is said to rule the working class, who have far less structure > in their lives than professionals who have to tow some kind of party > line. Edgar Cayce said that Saturn brings the desire to constantly > rub put the past and begin anew. What happens during a Saturn > transit? Usually an unexpected and unwelcome *change.* > > Some Gauquelin keywords for Saturn are: anxious, austere, hesitant, > melancholy, reclusive, reserved... " Not much there about structure. A > few Gauquelin keywords for Jupiter might suggest structure: pompous, > powerful, authoritative, dominating... " > > I believe the supposed connection of Saturn with structure came from > the observed characteristics of tropical Capricorn. Change these > traits to sidereal Sagittarius, and we find Jupiter in residence. > > Yes, I believe we have a major mix-up here. But for an answer we look > to the charts of someone like Billy Graham, and those people who > absolutely hate structure. A wonderful astrological friend of mine > has Saturn on the ascendant in Gemini. Jupiter is in the third house > in Leo, making no major aspects to planets in her chart. I cannot > think of anyone more democratic in her attitude nor anyone less > structured in her daily routine and beliefs. She's a poet and > astrologer. (Moon in Taurus in the 12th trine Sun-Mercury in 4th.) > > Saturn is said to rule science, but what do scientists do? They > constantly explore and experiment and study and test. It's the > politicians (Jupiter) who tend to sit in one place as they expouse > their party's politics. > > Any professional field becomes 'Jupiterian' after awhile as certain > belief systems and standards take over. Then it's time for Saturnian > disintegration, perhaps with a hard Uranian knock. > > Therese > " How can Pluto be in Sagittarius when it's so close to Antares? " ----- > > Post message: > Subscribe: - > Un: - > List owner: -owner > > Shortcut URL to this page: > / > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2006 Report Share Posted March 15, 2006 At 01:31 AM 3/15/06 -0600, Andi wrote: >That is interesting, because I've recently looked at major transits of >Saturn to my Sun, and realized that Saturn is acting a lot like Uranus. >Things dissolve and a new order takes over. Change explodes, but there's >always a sense of reorder and restructure. Like shaking a snow globe and >letting the snow settle again, but in different spots. > >Hi, to Tosh and Deb. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Hi Andi, Thanks for your comment. If the snow settles in comfortable spots, that must mean that you're doing a good job of handling Saturn's transits! That's no doubt how we're supposed to respond to the transits of Saturn, which don't leave any of us alone. Yes, hello to Tosh and Deb. Welcome to the sidereal list! There's a lot of variety here, and to get an eclectic view, review some past posts if you have time. We welcome all questions. Sincerely, Therese Acting list moderator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2006 Report Share Posted March 15, 2006 therese92003 <eastwest wrote: Chris and all, Think about this for a moment. Uranus and Saturn supposedly co-rule a sign of the zodiac. Shouldn't they share something in common? Is Saturn really structured? Saturn rules old age when everything starts to fall apart. Saturn is said to rule ancient artifacts which are generally in a decayed condition. Saturn is said to rule the working class, who have far less structure in their lives than professionals who have to tow some kind of party line. sounds like you haven't worked much. blue collar people have very little say in their workplace and the mind numbing nature of most jobs is enough to make anyone realize that saturn's restrictive symbolism fits the drugery of tedious repetitive work. actually, as more of the labour force becomes subject to control by millionaire bosses, saturn applies to office workers these days as well. Edgar Cayce said that Saturn brings the desire to constantly rub put the past and begin anew. What happens during a Saturn transit? Usually an unexpected and unwelcome *change.* Some Gauquelin keywords for Saturn are: anxious, austere, hesitant, melancholy, reclusive, reserved... " Not much there about structure. A few Gauquelin keywords for Jupiter might suggest structure: pompous, powerful, authoritative, dominating... " i think you're trying to selectively fit gauquelin to your ideas. it's unconvincing to my mind. the saturnian reserve and austerity emerges directly from the need to structure one's life in order to minimize uncertainty and spontaneity. the structure is right there, if your eyes are open enough to see it. I believe the supposed connection of Saturn with structure came from the observed characteristics of tropical Capricorn. Change these traits to sidereal Sagittarius, and we find Jupiter in residence. Yes, I believe we have a major mix-up here. Sorry Therese, but the mix up is yours. Your idea of sign leakage just doesn't make any sense to me. Capricorns are Saturnian. I don't see where the mystery is. Aquarians are a somewhat different case, but that can be accounted for elsewhere. But for an answer we look to the charts of someone like Billy Graham, and those people who absolutely hate structure. A wonderful astrological friend of mine has Saturn on the ascendant in Gemini. Jupiter is in the third house in Leo, making no major aspects to planets in her chart. I cannot think of anyone more democratic in her attitude nor anyone less structured in her daily routine and beliefs. She's a poet and astrologer. (Moon in Taurus in the 12th trine Sun-Mercury in 4th.) Saturn is said to rule science, but what do scientists do? They constantly explore and experiment and study and test. It's the politicians (Jupiter) who tend to sit in one place as they expouse their party's politics. Again, I think you're being selective. Scientists may attempt to prove new ideas but they conduct their work in the most saturnian of ways -- through careful and methodlical analysis of the data. That's Saturn! The aim of Western science is to control nature and the universe. How saturnian is that? in any event, science is not the domain of a single planet, gauquelin notwithstanding. Chris Any professional field becomes 'Jupiterian' after awhile as certain belief systems and standards take over. Then it's time for Saturnian disintegration, perhaps with a hard Uranian knock. Therese " How can Pluto be in Sagittarius when it's so close to Antares? " ----- Post message: Subscribe: - Un: - List owner: -owner Shortcut URL to this page: / Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2006 Report Share Posted March 15, 2006 seems not to be working right, as my posts aren't always showing up. If one of my posts appears twice, I'll delete a copy. At 07:55 AM 3/15/06 -0800, Chris wrote: > >...blue collar people have very little say in their workplace and the mind numbing nature of most jobs is enough to make anyone realize that saturn's restrictive symbolism fits the drugery of tedious repetitive work. Yes, Chris, Saturn is restrictive and boring. No doubt about that. The boredom of these mundane jobs often leads to the search for new (and probably equally boring) jobs. But I was talking about *structure,* which is a different concept. Tall buildings (Jupiter) have structure. Structure is order and discipline. Order and discpline generally lead to 'climbing the professional ladder' in some way. >I think you're trying to selectively fit gauquelin to your ideas. Not exactly...I also refer to Lee Lehman's Rulership book, which lists Saturn keywords from traditional sources. And have I listed any keywords you wouldn't agree with? Mostly I agree with traditional Saturn meanings. What I'm questioning is the concept of structure, meaning solidarity and making something permanent. We can misunderstand each other if we don't define our words. >... the saturnian reserve and austerity emerges directly from the need to structure one's life in order to minimize uncertainty and spontaneity. the structure is right there, if your eyes are open enough to see it. We're dealing with different concepts here. Reserve and austerity may or may not have anything to do with the need to structure one's life. I don't think there's necessarily a relationship betweent the two. I think we're a bit off track here form my central question. You're talking about a possible psychological underpinning, and I'm talking about an observable quality. >Again, I think you're being selective. Scientists may attempt to prove new ideas but they conduct their work in the most saturnian of ways -- through careful and methodlical analysis of the data. That's Saturn! Right, I agree with that. >The aim of Western science is to control nature and the universe. How saturnian is that? I meant the *process* of laboratory work, not the attitude of scientists. I'm trying to separate the process from the psychology of the individual, which is really *individual* to the person. Each scientist has his own mind-set, but he/she still tests and experiments and is looking for something new in the laboratory. The process is Saturnian. I believe our communication problems are due to mixing up psychology and processes. Also I've taken only one Saturnian word that I believe may be misplaced: structure Like Steve, you've injected concepts that were never there in my initial remarks. This is what I'm referring to when I say that astrologers need to be more careful in their thinking. I called this 'logic,' but maybe that's not the best word for what I'm trying to say. Therese Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 Hi All, Read this interesting discussion about Saturn. I read the files in the links section and they seem to invert the tropical take on Sag and Cap and therefore of Jup and Saturn. Just so we are on the same page, I wanted to mention those here and know if everyone else also believes in the same interprets. The sidereal Sag as per the Fagan from Links file,has totally taken the traits of the traditional tropical Cap: wordly ambitious, adhering to the rules of the society, disciplined etc. Sidereal Cap on the other hand is depicted as lack of ambition, the ability to survive on bare essentials in terms of materials ( therefore the ability to self-deny, live in poverty etc.) and ideas ( therefore 'brevity-is-the-soul-of-wit' like traits ) are found. I am still in a state of haze trying to sort out, if possible, these many overlapping definitions within sidereal itself and make a transition from how things are interpreted in tropical. In this big melting pot of many theories, there seem to be two ideas about Jup: one being the master of wordly affairs, as seem from their loyalty to traditions ( and this overlaps with the way many define Saturn), the other being: this high spiritual master figure. The high spiritual abilities have been used by some to call it a planet a poverty as I recall at some places. Since the emphasis on wordly affairs and accomplishments is remarkably absent, the Jovian is in search of higher abstract principles that explain this very material life in a way that need not much physical resources to rely on. The Vedic take on Jup seems to be that it sure is a spiritual significator but also ends up causing wordly success and prosperity. Perhaps the theory behind that is if one can understand higher spiritual laws, that doesn't make one wordly unwise, but even better in the material affairs also. Vedic astro as I understand it so far (and I am barely a beginner) doesn't confer the traditional western tropical 'master of wordly affairs' status on Saturn. It is simply a planet of troubles, losses etc. ALthough one might argue that behind that lies the implicit assumption that these troubles will eventually lead to a betterment of at least the spiritual qualities, if not the material. Perhaps that's why the Vedic sade-sati or Saturn return is based on the conjunction of Transit ( T) Saturn and Natal ( N) Moon, rather than the western tropical methond of T Saturn conjuncting N Saturn. Theresa, also have a question about Saturn in Asc in Gem that your friend has. There seem to be two takes on it. One is the 'fear' of learning, problems in early education. Other is the mastery of subjects, logic etc. Maybe the first leads to the second. Some say Saturn in an air sign becomes a 'friend' as it grounds the airheads.( I have this same aspect...so curious .lol.) I know the above is like a bundle of thread with many ends hanging out and has no structure...lol...but any comments/ insights are welcome. Cheers Bliss PS: Hi Tosh, Deb. welcome. This is the truth. Not 'the truth'..lol, but insearchoftruth from Horoscopechat. Cheers to sidereal learning. I am sure we'll have a great time here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 > Hi All, > Read this interesting discussion about Saturn. I read the files in > the links section and they seem to invert the tropical take on Sag > and Cap and therefore of Jup and Saturn. > REPLY: I have also found a confusing or erratic portrayal of sign meanings applied by both Tropical and Sidereal astrologers. It seems to me that when you specifically define what a Sidereal sign " means " that it should coincide to a great degree to what the Tropical sign for that same portion of " space " represents. In other words the two systems, other than for the overlap factor, should be somewhat in sync. They are not. So, I just throw out the general usage of " sign " meanings in my chart work. Since " sign-less " astrology has worked quite well for me I have never taken the time to research and write my own sign meanings for either/both systems. If anyone has been successful in finding or publishing sign meanings that sort all of this out, I would be happy to re-visit this subject. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 20, 2006 Report Share Posted August 20, 2006 , therese hamilton <eastwest wrote: > > At 10:54 AM 8/19/06 +0300, Sari wrote: > >Hi Bettina and others, > > > >...I think there's > >more to Saturn than this usual " planet of seriousness, heavyness and > >dourness " and dull, grey bureocracy etc... > Garth Allen (Don Bradley) did a statistical study of comedians and found Saturn the main significator. I don't have the AA issue but I'd bet there's a copy hidden somewhere in Therese's vault! On reflection, Saturn is a good match for comedians, much of whose material is based on irony. Humour has long been recognized as a way of coping with difficult or unpleasant circumstances. Come on, Therese..., find that thing! Buz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 20, 2006 Report Share Posted August 20, 2006 At 01:58 AM 8/20/06 -0000, Buz wrote: > >Come on, Therese..., find that thing! You can come and look for it if you want to, Buz! My stuff is spread around two rooms, four huge file drawers, various miscellaneous boxes and bookcases too many to count. But I did find your Uranian article because there were so few sidereal magazines that they were all in one place! But you know...I don't really trust Donald Bradley's research. His raw data isn't available, and research back then could be pretty slipshod. I don't have files of the AA magazines. Therese Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 6, 2006 Report Share Posted September 6, 2006 Sari, these photo uploads are so helpful. Could you possibly note in your post the ascendant degrees and degree of the planet the photos are highlighting? That way we can have an exact picture. The ayanamsa doesn't matter as long as you tell us which one it is. We can adjust if we want another ayanamsa. We may be discovering an entirely new view of Saturn and the Moon! This is what research is all about. No one can argue about a person's appearance. Thanks, Therese At 02:57 PM 9/6/06 +0300, Sari wrote: >I uploaded a file about people with Saturn on less than five degrees from >the ascendant, with no other planets. What surprised me, was the kind of > " brown " , soft, friendly look they have. Quite unlike the Saturn I had >expected to see. I have not made any kind of choosing with the pictures, >they're taken randomly from ADB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 6, 2006 Report Share Posted September 6, 2006 Dear Therese, you can find all these people in AstroDatabank 3.0. Ambra Angiolini: Ascendant 13.41 Cancer Saturn 17.58 Cancer Columba Bush: Ascendant 5.37 Libra Saturn 1.08 Libra Carlo Bergonzi: Ascendant 7.55 Libra Saturn 4.26 Libra David Carradine: Ascendant 21.45 Aquarius Saturn 24.35 Aquarius Robert Altman:Ascendant 22.50 Libra Saturn 22.56 Libra Carol Channing: Ascendant 3.54 Virgo Saturn 2.48 Virgo Isa Barzizza: Ascendant 4.18 Sagittarius Saturn 7.42 Sagittarius I'm using Raman ayanamsa. Regards, Sari - " therese hamilton " <eastwest Wednesday, September 06, 2006 6:33 PM Re: Saturn > Sari, these photo uploads are so helpful. Could you possibly note in your > post the ascendant degrees and degree of the planet the photos are > highlighting? That way we can have an exact picture. The ayanamsa doesn't > matter as long as you tell us which one it is. We can adjust if we want > another ayanamsa. > > We may be discovering an entirely new view of Saturn and the Moon! This is > what research is all about. No one can argue about a person's appearance. > > Thanks, > Therese Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 7, 2006 Report Share Posted September 7, 2006 At 07:37 PM 9/6/06 +0300, Sari wrote: >Dear Therese, > >you can find all these people in AstroDatabank 3.0. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Yes, I know, but I'm lazy and have a slow loading computer. I was thinking also of the other forum members who don't have ADB and who would like to know the degrees. Thanks for posting them! This is a fascinating study. Therese > >Ambra Angiolini: Ascendant 13.41 Cancer >Saturn 17.58 Cancer > >Columba Bush: Ascendant 5.37 Libra >Saturn 1.08 Libra > >Carlo Bergonzi: Ascendant 7.55 Libra >Saturn 4.26 Libra > >David Carradine: Ascendant 21.45 Aquarius >Saturn 24.35 Aquarius > >Robert Altman:Ascendant 22.50 Libra >Saturn 22.56 Libra > >Carol Channing: Ascendant 3.54 Virgo >Saturn 2.48 Virgo > >Isa Barzizza: Ascendant 4.18 Sagittarius >Saturn 7.42 Sagittarius > >I'm using Raman ayanamsa. > >Regards, Sari > > > > >- > " therese hamilton " <eastwest > >Wednesday, September 06, 2006 6:33 PM > Re: Saturn > > >> Sari, these photo uploads are so helpful. Could you possibly note in your >> post the ascendant degrees and degree of the planet the photos are >> highlighting? That way we can have an exact picture. The ayanamsa doesn't >> matter as long as you tell us which one it is. We can adjust if we want >> another ayanamsa. >> >> We may be discovering an entirely new view of Saturn and the Moon! This is >> what research is all about. No one can argue about a person's appearance. >> >> Thanks, >> Therese > > > > " How can Pluto be in Sagittarius when it's so close to Antares? " ----- > > Post message: > Subscribe: - > Un: - > List owner: -owner > >Shortcut URL to this page: >/ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2006 Report Share Posted September 8, 2006 I made a same kind of research about Saturn than I made with the Moon. I took people from ASB with Capricorn or Aquarius rising, Saturn in the first whole sign house, no other planets there. Here's what I got: Capricorns: 1. Ralph Bellamy, 17th June 1904 at 10 PM +6.00 Chicago, IL - " American actor on radio and TV with more than 400 stage roles and 100 movies. His career spanned eight decades in all, in which he acted with such ease and regal quality that he could do any role. In 1987, he was given an Honorary Oscar. The son of a Chicago advertising executive, he did not care much for scholastics, but did well in the school drama club. At 15, he had a brief job as an extra on a film and it may well have been then that the acting bug bit him. He was expelled from school in his senior year for smoking under the stage, so he worked as a soda jerk, a store clerk and a fruit packer. He ran away from home at 17 and joined a Shakespearean theatre company where he learned to act during the '20s in stock productions. Working as a stage manager, he made $40 a week. Moving on to New York, he found that the big city was not ready for him and reached a point so low that he was living on peanuts, literally, and once stole a bottle of milk from a doorstep... " 2. Mary Stevenson Cassatt, 22nd May 1844 at 11.55 PM +5.20 Allegany Co, PA - " American artist of the Impressionist school, famous for warm and affectionate mother-and-child studies done in a bright and original manner. A master of the tender touch, her portrayals of gentle kisses are serene and voluptuous.(...) She traveled the French countryside, painting peasants and local people, rejecting the fashionable trends in painting and disregarding the tyranny of the Paris Salon. (...) A wealthy spinster, her life was focused on art. Biographers conclude that the closest she came to a lasting romance was her friendship with Degas, who had an influence on her painting. Nonetheless, she loved children, and often used her brother's children as models... " 3. Jacques Chirac, 29th November 1932 at noon +0.00, Paris, France - " French politician elected President in 1995 and again in 2002. He served as Prime Minister from 1974-76 and from 1986-88 and as Mayor of Paris from 1977-1995. (...) Thin, nervous and fast-talking, his political career was launched in 1962 when he landed a position in the office of Georges Pompidou, then Charles de Gaulle's Prime Minister. (...) As the mayor of Paris, Chirac had overridden a ban on a 1987 Madonna concert after listening to her music. The singer later kissed him on both cheeks and donated the proceeds to AIDS research. In 1995 Chirac made a third attempt to become President, with his most trusted aide, his daughter Claude, stage-managing his campaign. Her hard work and his backing of the Madonna concert helped him capture the support of youthful voters. (...) Chirac enjoyed glamorizing his public persona, and remained close friends with Gregory Peck until the actor's death. Despite his native intelligence, he does not want to be viewed as an intellectual but a man of the people. Known as " le bulldozer " for his fierce determination, Chirac is not known for his diplomatic skills. (...) 4. BF Skinner, 30th March 3.15 AM +5.00 Susquehanna, PA - American psychologist who believed human behavior could be engineered to build a better world, one of the most influential and controversial psychologists of the 20th Century. He was adored as a messiah and abhorred as a menace. (...)Skinner's principle of " operant behavior " holds that even seemingly spontaneous action is a response to rewards and punishment. People do not shape the world, the world shapes them. (...) In 1948 he published his book " Walden Two, " in which he described a tightly controlled utopia in which people were motivated by positive and negative reinforcements - rewards and punishment. It didn't do well, but during the 1960's the book attracted a kind of cult following and hundreds of thousands of copies were sold. Intrigued by Skinner's image of a better world where people don't know the meaning of envy and jealousy; buildings are communally owned and everyone helps out with chores. There is time for reading and painting, song and friendship. The key to this community's success is child rearing. Youngsters are raised together. Discipline is strict, and children are taught to rein in their desires through self-control exercises... " Then Aquarians: 1. David Carradine, 8th December 1936 at noon +8.00 Hollywood, CA - American actor in a theatrical family, the first son of actor John Carradine with the first of his dad's four wives. (...) He was drafted into the Army but was court-martialed out for shoplifting from a base grocery store in 1961. The family career of acting seemed a natural direction for his life. After lean years of studying music and ballet at San Francisco State, his brief Army hitch and working as a fruit picker, David had an acting breakthrough in 1965 as an Inca king in " The Royal Hunt of the Sun " on Broadway.(...) His tempestuous private life included some 500 acid trips, naked neighborhood junkets and a lawsuit for abuse. With a four-year first marriage to Donna Becht behind him, David fell in love with actress Barbara Hershey in 1969. They never married, but had a son in 1972 whom they named " Free, " appropriately for the hippie days of love, peace, dope and flowers. For three decades, he made a valiant attempt to drink all the alcohol in California, consuming up to a quart and a half a day. His life disintegrated into a long career slide marked by a string of video movies and a reputation for a temper that made him poison for casting... " 2. Phil Donahue, 21st December 1935 +5.00 11.25 AM Cleveland, OH - " American TV personality, a major talk-show host and pioneer of audience interaction in a flexible, captivating on-air performance. (...) On 11/6/1967, he entered the local Dayton television market with his program, 'The Phil Donahue Show' with his first guest, atheist Madalyn Murray O'Hair. He worked hard to develop a program that was tackling serious issues for a mostly female audience. (...) He tackled issues such as abortion, nuclear weapons, AIDS, pollution, and consumer protection issues and his viewing audience expanded.(...) He tried to maintain a scope of serious issue-based programming in his show but found that he had to compromise and pander month after month to more sensational material. Heavily criticized by media watchers, Donahue was feeling the heat compromising his own ideas for ratings... " 3. Karl Marx, 5th May 1818 at 2.00 AM -0.27 Trier, Germany - " German-Jewish communist and philosopher who developed the theory of socialism. Along with Engels, he presented both " The Communist Manifesto, " 1847 and " Das Capital, " 1848. (...) Unable to support his family by journalism and improvident by nature, he was reduced to living on an endless series of small loans. He was a prolific writer, but irregular working hours, cheap cigars and the highly seasoned food of which he was fond exacerbated his liver and gallbladder. The strain of poverty was lifted from Marx and his wife, Jenny von Westphalen, in 1870 when his benefactor, Friedrich Engels, retired from manufacturing and supplied them with a regular income... " 4. Maximilian Robespierre, 6th May 1758 at 2.00 -0.11 Arras, France - " French attorney, politician and revolutionary. A fanatical idealist and radical leader of the Jacobins, he was called " the incorruptible. " Robespierre, a patriot with a sense of duty and sacrifice, became the very symbol of the French Revolution. (...) Always careful in his dress and personal grooming and a man of simple manners, he quickly gained attention, but kept his frugal lifestyle. (...) He was a proponent of universal suffrage, was opposed to the royal veto and the abuses of ministerial power and he fought against religious and racial discrimination. Increasingly, he was seen as a dangerous individual, as his passionate fight for liberty gained him more enemies, and during 1791, after a threat upon his life, he went to live with the family of a cabinetmaker.(...) After the fall of the Girondins, the revolution mobilized its resources, and he noted in his diary that what was needed now was " one single will, " a dictatorial power that characterized the revolutionary government. On 7/27/1793, he took his place on the Committee of Public Safety, working to prevent dissent among the revolutionaries. (...) On 6/4/1794, the National Convention elected him their president, but with his health deteriorating, he became distant and irritable; at the same time, he began to lose the support of the people and he soon withdrew from the National Convention. (...) Declared an outlaw by the National Convention, he was executed on 7/28/1794, where he died by guillotine in Paris... " --------------------------- What's common with these eight Saturnian people? - Ralph Bellamy and David Carradine both worked hard and were ready to suffer hardhips to reach their goal to become succesful actors. Carradine led a turbulent private life involving drug and alcohol abuse. - Jacques Chirac has been very determined as a politician and haven't shunned from using populistic or questionable means. - Maximillian Robespierre, BF Skinner and Karl Marx all promoted systems that were aimed at creating an utopian world without discrimination, envy or inequality, but in all these cases the utopian world proved to be possible only with inbearable control, absolutism and restraints. The utopy turned to it's complete opposite. - Phil Donahue was also an idealist and wanted to promote equality and minority rights in his TV shows. - Mary Stevenson Cassatt wanted to paint common people and didn't care about the trends in Paris. First we could think what Saturn is not about? - It would clearly not seem to be about conservatism or willingness to keep things as they are. It's not about resisting changes. It's not about being careful. It's not about dullness or greyness. The picture that emerges is about (in some cases) extreme idealism and determination and about theoretical utopias that don't always work in the real life. There is fanaticism and absolutism. It's also about big ups and downs, going from an extreme to another. It's about equality and democracy, sometimes with a bitter price. Sometimes it's about seeing people and society they are in as a huge machine. It's no wonder that Indians connect atheism and socialism with Saturn. If we think that sidereal Capricorn covers a big part of tropical Aquarius and sidereal Aquarius covers a big part of tropical Pisces, and if we believe that the meanings of planets have altered on the Western tropical astrology to suit better the signs they are supposed to rule, then we could say that Saturn is actually like Uranus and Neptune in Western astrology. And that would seem to be the case indeed. Regards, Sari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2006 Report Share Posted September 8, 2006 A fascinating post, Sari! Thank you!! This is making wonderful use of the AstroDatabank. Therese At 10:30 AM 9/8/06 +0300, Sari wrote: >I made a same kind of research about Saturn than I made with the Moon. I took people from ASB with Capricorn or Aquarius rising, Saturn in the first whole sign house, no other planets there. Here's what I got: > >Capricorns:(...) >Then Aquarians:(...) > >What's common with these eight Saturnian people? > > - Ralph Bellamy and David Carradine both worked hard and were ready to suffer hardhips to reach their goal to become succesful actors. Carradine led a turbulent private life involving drug and alcohol abuse. > > - Jacques Chirac has been very determined as a politician and haven't shunned from using populistic or questionable means. > > - Maximillian Robespierre, BF Skinner and Karl Marx all promoted systems that were aimed at creating an utopian world without discrimination, envy or inequality, but in all these cases the utopian world proved to be possible only with inbearable control, absolutism and restraints. The utopy turned to it's complete opposite. > > - Phil Donahue was also an idealist and wanted to promote equality and minority rights in his TV shows. > > - Mary Stevenson Cassatt wanted to paint common people and didn't care about the trends in Paris. > >First we could think what Saturn is not about? - It would clearly not seem to be about conservatism or willingness to keep things as they are. It's not about resisting changes. It's not about being careful. It's not about dullness or greyness. > >The picture that emerges is about (in some cases) extreme idealism and determination and about theoretical utopias that don't always work in the real life. There is fanaticism and absolutism. It's also about big ups and downs, going from an extreme to another. It's about equality and democracy, sometimes with a bitter price. Sometimes it's about seeing people and society they are in as a huge machine. It's no wonder that Indians connect atheism and socialism with Saturn. > >If we think that sidereal Capricorn covers a big part of tropical Aquarius and sidereal Aquarius covers a big part of tropical Pisces, and if we believe that the meanings of planets have altered on the Western tropical astrology to suit better the signs they are supposed to rule, then we could say that Saturn is actually like Uranus and Neptune in Western astrology. And that would seem to be the case indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 9, 2006 Report Share Posted September 9, 2006 Sari: Thanks for the wonderful post. A simple clarification: I understand these were, first capricorn ascendants and then aquarius ascendants only..or were they cap and aqua ascendants WITH saturn in first house also? Thanks Shiva > At 10:30 AM 9/8/06 +0300, Sari wrote: > >I made a same kind of research about Saturn than I made with the Moon. I > took people from ASB with Capricorn or Aquarius rising, Saturn in the first > whole sign house, no other planets there. Here's what I got: > > > >Capricorns:(...) > >Then Aquarians:(...) > > > >What's common with these eight Saturnian people? > > > > - Ralph Bellamy and David Carradine both worked hard and were ready to > suffer hardhips to reach their goal to become succesful actors. Carradine > led a turbulent private life involving drug and alcohol abuse. > > > > - Jacques Chirac has been very determined as a politician and haven't > shunned from using populistic or questionable means. > > > > - Maximillian Robespierre, BF Skinner and Karl Marx all promoted systems > that were aimed at creating an utopian world without discrimination, envy > or inequality, but in all these cases the utopian world proved to be > possible only with inbearable control, absolutism and restraints. The utopy > turned to it's complete opposite. > > > > - Phil Donahue was also an idealist and wanted to promote equality and > minority rights in his TV shows. > > > > - Mary Stevenson Cassatt wanted to paint common people and didn't care > about the trends in Paris. > > > >First we could think what Saturn is not about? - It would clearly not seem > to be about conservatism or willingness to keep things as they are. It's > not about resisting changes. It's not about being careful. It's not about > dullness or greyness. > > > >The picture that emerges is about (in some cases) extreme idealism and > determination and about theoretical utopias that don't always work in the > real life. There is fanaticism and absolutism. It's also about big ups and > downs, going from an extreme to another. It's about equality and democracy, > sometimes with a bitter price. Sometimes it's about seeing people and > society they are in as a huge machine. It's no wonder that Indians connect > atheism and socialism with Saturn. > > > >If we think that sidereal Capricorn covers a big part of tropical Aquarius > and sidereal Aquarius covers a big part of tropical Pisces, and if we > believe that the meanings of planets have altered on the Western tropical > astrology to suit better the signs they are supposed to rule, then we could > say that Saturn is actually like Uranus and Neptune in Western astrology. > And that would seem to be the case indeed. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 10, 2006 Report Share Posted September 10, 2006 Sari, I know ADB, but what is ASB? Skinner is March _20, 1904. Thanks ________________________________ Sari Metsovuori wrote: > I made a same kind of research about Saturn than I made with the Moon. > I took people from ASB > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 10, 2006 Report Share Posted September 10, 2006 Shiva wrote: > A simple clarification: > I understand these were, first capricorn ascendants and then aquarius > ascendants only..or were they cap and aqua ascendants WITH saturn in > first house also? Sari: Hi Shiva, all these examples were first Capricorn ascendants with Saturn (but no other planets) in Capricorn; and the Aquarius ascendants with Saturn (but no other planets) in Aquarius. Saturn is in the first whole sign house in it's own sign in every example. Regards, Sari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 10, 2006 Report Share Posted September 10, 2006 Hello Dark Star, sorry, typing error. I was talking about ADB of course. According to the database, Skinner was born in March 30, 1904, but you're right, when I checked it out on the internet, everywhere they say that he was born in 20th March. Strange. But he seems to have Saturn alone on the Capricorn ascendant with the 20th March date too. (BTW, look at the Piscean emphasis on his chart!) Regards, Sari - " Dark Star " <pansophia Sunday, September 10, 2006 7:22 AM Re: Re: Saturn > Sari, > > I know ADB, but what is ASB? > Skinner is March _20, 1904. > Thanks > ________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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