Lal Kitab : The Red Book of Astrology - 3

[Guest guest]

Dear Mishra ji,

 

Just placing a few facts into perspective:

 

[ 1 ] Marking the Lagna as # 1 is to denote the house or

the 'bhava'. Lal Kitab is a system which is based on 'bhava'

or 'house' called 'khanaa' rather than rasi.

 

[ 2 ] In the Janma kundali cast with time,date and place of birth the

planets obey the universally accepted norms like the Rahu and ketu

will be 7 houses apart or the Sun, mercury and venus will be in close

proximity. It is only in the Varsh Phal kundali that Rahu and Ketu

might be close to each other but never in the same house.

Kundali drawn through the signs on the palm might have the planets

not following the accepted norms. But then it is palmistry and not

astrology as we know it.

 

[ 3 ] Lal Kitab uses the Vinshottari dasha, although it has its own

dasha form of 35 years like the traditional Yogini dasha.

 

[ 4 ] The method to cast a horoscope of twins etc has not been

described in the Lal Kitab. Yes the book says that the child born

first will be considered as younger.

 

I am quoting below a small note [ not written by me] on the myths and

the reality of Lal Kitab which might be of interest to you.

 

sincerely,

 

RP Singh

 

 

Myths and the reality of the Lal Kitab

 

 

At the outset I must make it very clear that I am neither

enamored by the book nor wish to belittle it. My interest

in astrology is entirely academic and my approach

therefore very objective and detached .

 

Question 1. What is the basis of this scripture ?

 

There are quite a few astrology paddhatis prevalent in India today,

be it KP , System's Approach , Krushna's ashtakvarg etc. they are all

either elaborations or modifications upon the traditionally accepted

Vedic astrology. Across all these paddhatis the basic parameters are

the same . They differ either in approach or emphasis , the aim being

the same in all cases.

Lal Kitab also draws its basics from the Vedic astrology , but it

differs in approach or what the book calls " grammer " ; and the

emphasis is not so much on predicting the future as on

solving the problem of today , hence the importance of Upaya.

Therefore Lal Kitab is seldom used for long term predictions

although it could well be. The very first page of the book states

the two purposes the Lal Kitab is meant for : (a ) to help remove

the blockage in the flow of fortune's water and ( b ) to help erect

an obstacle in the path of adversity thus saving the native from

misery .

 

Therefore I believe that the Lal Kitab is as much a part

of tradition as any other paddhati .

 

Q.2 When and where it came into existance ?

 

There are FIVE separate publications with varying length :

1939 ed of 383 pages, 1940ed of 284 pages;1941ed of 428 pages,

1942ed of 384 pages and finally the1952ed of 1173 pages.

 

Surprisingly the name of the author has not been mentioned

in any of these editions , instead they carry the name of the

publisher , shri Girdhari Lal Sharma and his photograph.

If it were an original work by any author, he definitely

would have got his name on it.

 

There are so many myths and legends about this book that it

is really very difficult to sieve out the facts. These myths seem

to have been woven around the book to make it look divine or some

thing ‘out of this world’. Let me take them up one by one.

 

{ a }….that the book was written by Pt. Roop Chand Joshi.

Some people , specially from Punjab ( probably for parochial

reasons),

believe that the Lal Kitab was written , as an original work,

by Pt. Roop Chand Joshi and he did not put his name as an

author because he was in Government service under the British.

I do not understand why Joshi ji could not have put his name as an

author.

The British might have been against writing seditious material but

not a

book on astrology . Even if that being true he could have used his

name in the 1952 edition , there were no British then nor he was in

service

any longer. Pt. Roop Chand Joshi was a very honest and a saintly

person,

he couldn’t have claimed something that was never his.

 

{ b } ... that the book was revealed in a dream .

Never heard of dreams in installments and that too spreading

over a period of twelve years. Because that is what alone

could justify five publications spread over a period of 12 or 13

years.

Not many takers for this fiction.

 

{ c }... that the book was received as an ilham , kind of through

a revelation, thus adding mystical sanctity to the book. If that were

true the Lal Kitab would be the second book in human history to be

revealed to the mankind , the first being the Quran. This was an

effort to make it appear as sacrosanct so that there

could be no criticism or scientific evaluation of the book.

This belief has done more harm than good to the book.

Well no body with a scientific frame of mind is going to

believe that story either.

 

{ d } ... that this book was written by Arun the charioteer of Sun

god. Later Ravan took it away to Lanka and from there it

reached the middle east. It traveled back to India. This was an

effort to get the book into the Samhita ranks , like other

astrological samhitas in the name of rishis ,while at the same

time trying to justify the use of urdu and persian words.

Not many people believe that either.

 

 

The fact is very simple : this is a book of astrology and that

it was first published in 1939 by shri Girdhari Lal Sharma

All subsequent publications are elaborations / explanations

of the original. Every thing else about the book is irrelevant.

All these books are available with some individuals or in the

libraries.

 

 

Summarizing, all these stories about the book have been woven

around by Lal Kitab semi-literates to hide their incompetence and

instill in the minds of their clients an awe and reverence for the

book.

Reverence or faith in any system is built on its efficiency rather

than

through such non-scientific humbug of trying to make the book appear

as divine. Therefore I believe that this book is a documentation of

the

then prevalent thoughts and beliefs in the Northern Hills of India.

 

 

Q.3 Which Vedic parampara it comes from ?

 

Of course from the same parampara { tradition } as Sanket nidhi ,

Jatak

Parijat ,Sarvarth Chintamani etc. You have to bear in mind that

this book is a result of collective wisdom of a society which

had lived in isolation of the northern hills for centuries . This

tradition is still in use all the way from Kashmir to the

Garhwal hills of Uttaranchal. In the Punjab it came to be known

as Lal kitab , because of its first documentation appeared in the

red binding,

As the societies living in isolation grow their own idiom ,

culture and points of references , similarly this tradition of

astrology had also developed its own idiom and 'grammar'.

But the difference of idiom or the grammar does not make

it come from any other parampara { tradition } . You know the growth

of Indo-European languages.

 

Q 4 . What are the advantages of the Lal Kitab system ?

 

This is the only system of astrology which provides ‘samadhan’ in the

form of easy to do simple remedies. These remedies have been found

to be quite effective. In the vedic system the remedies invariably

are

jaap,daan havan, elaborate poojas etc, where as the remedies of the

Lal Kitab are based on the folk remedies. These folk remedies are

based on the collective folk wisdom going back to centuries.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

, " litsol " <mishra.lalit

wrote:

>

>

> (Note : I m not author of the article, I only collected and

collated)

>

> Please note that the intention is to only highlight the differences

> between Lal Kitab method and the classical Indian astrology. This

is not

> at all meant to be a criticism of any school of astrology.

>

> Pandit Roop Chand Joshi had the highest respect and regard for the

sages

> and the scholars, current and of the years past, who founded this

> knowledge for the good of everyone. Lal Kitab is an extension of the

> existing Indian astrological system.

>

> 1. Ascendant or Lagna (the first house in a horoscope) is always

> considered to be having Aries sign in it. A traditional Indian

> horoscope is converted to the Lal Kitab system by changing the Lagna

> sign to Aries and the sign of the second house to Taurus and so on.

The

> planets that are in these houses are not changed, only the Rashis

> (signs) are changed. This removes the need for having to consider

the

> " Lord of the first " (Lagnesh) or Dhanesh, Shashtesh etc. Each

> house in a horoscope has been assigned a fixed lordship of a Rashi,

> which is Aries for the first house, Taurus for the second house and

so

> on.

>

> 2. Rahu and Ketu, (the lunar nodes) which are always seven houses

(180

> degrees) apart from each other in the traditional Indian astrology,

do

> not have to be bound by this condition. Especially, while making an

> annual progressed horoscope using Lal Kitab's Varshphal table, these

> two may or may not be seven houses apart. These two can even occupy

> adjoining houses. Rahu and Ketu can even be together, when a

horoscope

> is made based on one's palm or the house that one lives in (Makaan

> Kundli.)

>

> 3. In the traditional Indian astrology, Sun, Mercury and Venus are

> always positioned close by. Lal Kitab removes this condition also.

These

> planets can be spread all over the horoscope, distant from each

other,

> just as in the case of Rahu and Ketu.

>

> 4. Multiple planets that are together in the birth chart in a

particular

> house, remain grouped together for the rest of one's life. While

> preparing the annual horoscope, these planets move together as a

group.

> For example, if one has Jupiter, Sun and Saturn together in the

first

> house in the birth chart, these planets will move together to the

fourth

> house in one's 25th year of life (See the Varshphal table in the Lal

> Kitab for details.)

>

> 5. In order to judge a horoscope, one need not consider the

Nakshtra

> (constellation) or Rashi. Also Lal Kitab does not consider the

effect

> of transition of planets (gochar) thus eliminating the need for an

> almanac. The only time one needs an almanac is, when one is

preparing

> the natal birth chart. After that, an almanac is not needed at all,

> ever.

>

> " Rashi chhor nakshatra bhoola, naa hee koi

> panchaang liya,

> Mekh raashi khud lagna ko gin kar, barah pakke

ghar

> maan gayaa "

>

> Roughly translated:

>

> " He " disregarded the constellations and the birth sign and got

> rid of the almanac (where one considers current planetary

transitions)

> " He " fixed Aries as the sign in the first house and similarly

> the twelve signs in the twelve houses of the horoscope.

>

> 6. All the things around us have been fixed as representatives of,

or

> belonging to, the nine planets. Relatives, professions, things

placed

> in a dwelling including cattle, pets, trees, plants etc. establish

good

> or evil effect of a planet.

>

> 7. Need for Navaansh and other charts, such as Saptaansh etc. has

been

> completely eliminated from Lal Kitab consideration. Only the basic

natal

> chart is required. Lal Kitab has its own way of making the Chandra

> Kundli, which is looked at in special circumstances.

>

> 8. Lal Kitab neither has Vinshottari Maha dashaa, nor the Sade Sati

> consideration of Saturn. It does, however, have its own planetary

cycle

> of thirty-five years.

>

> 9. Mangaleek dosh has been eliminated from consideration. However,

since

> Mars has been assigned two mounts on the hand (Upper and Lower

mounts)

> Lal Kitab considers Mars as giving dual effect � good and evil.

>

> 10. A method for casting horoscopes of twins, triplets, etc. has

been

> described in the Lal Kitab. This method provides distinct horoscope

for

> each child. The later born of the twins is considered older.

>

> 11. For timing of events, Lal Kitab provides a methodology that goes

> into as much detail as hours, minutes and seconds. Again, this

facility

> neither requires complex calculations, nor the use of an almanac.

>

> 12. Malefic effect of planets can be of two types: Graha Phal and

Rashi

> Phal. An Upaya can be utilized to guard against the Rashi Phal

effect.

> Graha Phal can not be altered by ordinary mortal beings. It is the

> Rashi Phal effect that can be modified using the upayas.

>

> 13. Lal Kitab system neither prescribes nor prohibits fasts.

>

> 14. Lal Kitab is neither a Tantrik book nor does it have anything

to do

> with witchcraft. The whole idea behind the upayas is to take

advantage

> of the " doubtful " position of certain planets and minimize their

> evil effects. Ordinary mortal beings cannot completely eliminate the

> evil effect of a planet; however the evil effect can, generally, be

> reduced. The Lal Kitab system does not claim to be " God's

> promise "

> " Duniyaavi hisaab kitabb hai, koi daawaa-e-khudaai nahin "

>

> 15. Lal Kitab system can not be used to harm others; there is no

> provision in it to do that. This system attempts to defend one

against

> evil planetary effects.

>

> 16. Lal Kitab system is secular in nature. In order to perform an

upaya,

> one can go to one's religious place of choice, which could be a

> temple, a gurudwara or, a mosque or church. If one feels that one

cannot

> perform an upaya in one of these religious places, or in case one

is an

> atheist, the upayas can be performed at an intersection where two

roads

> intersect at a right angle.

>

> 17. All the upayas are to be performed between dawn and dusk. There

are

> only two or three exceptions and those are explicitly mentioned in

the

> Lal Kitab. There is absolutely no requirement to perform particular

> upayas on particular days (unless specifically mentioned.) These

upayas

> can be performed by one's blood relatives or spouse (male or

> female.) Any variation of this rule would be a figment of one's

> imagination and against the principles of this system.

>

> 18. As stated before, this system does not consider itself superior

to

> other prevalent systems of astrology.

>

> 19. The Lal Kitab should be utilized to help others:

>

> Kar Bhalaa hoga bhalaa, Jab tak naa ho, bhalay ka buraa

>

> 20. And finally, Pandit Roop Chand Ji blessed all the readers and

> practitioners of the Lal Kitab system:

>

> Khush Raho Aabaad Duniya, Maal-o-zar Badhtey raho,

> Madad Maalik apni dega, Neki khud kartey chalo

>

> May you all be happy and prosperous. Possess material

goods; God

> will help you if you will help others (through the knowledge

contained

> in these books.)

>

> *** *****

> AN INTERVIEW WITH PT. ROOP CHAND JOSHI � December 1982.

>

> I had the distinct privilege of meeting Pt. Roop Chand Joshi , many

> times. I live in the United States and although Panditji never

cared to

> know my name, yet he was always very kind to me. When I met him

for the

> last time on November 14, 1982, he looked frail and yet he had

> brightness in his eyes, and a very energetic and charismatic look.

After

> he read a couple of horoscopes for me (I was the last one that

morning;

> Pt. Som Dutt had already shut the entrance door to indicate that

> Panditji was not available for the day.) I was taking leave of him,

I

> wished him well and told him that we'd be meeting again in another

> year or so. That is when he declared that it was our last meeting.

> " I am not going to be around for the next meeting. It is time for me

> to depart. Do you wish to ask me anything? " I asked Panditji these

> questions and took very rough notes:

>

> 1. How did this knowledge come to you? People have all sorts of

stories

> about it?

> As a youngster, I had intuition and was able to read palms and

faces.

> Lots of times, for no rhyme or reason, I would say something and it

> would come out to be true. Yet, I was not serious about it. I was

more

> concerned about my work ands my studies. It was that fateful night;

I

> had come to Pharwala on my first annual leave for two months. The

very

> first night, this " taaqat " (Power) appeared to me in my dream

> and told me that I was to be taught this " ilm " (knowledge) The

> next morning, something made me pick up a pencil and a notebook and

my

> fingers started writing what was discussed the night before. I

tried to

> resist it, but it was of no avail. All during my leave, everyday

this

> " exercise " continued. I would be almost in a semi-conscious

> state. It was scary. And, I could not take my attention off this. I

> knew that I had been had (hearty laugh). And was I ever? Till this

day,

> I am 84 years old now, this ilm has been haunting me if you want to

call

> it that way. I can't go anywhere, people recognize me and ask me to

> read their horoscope. In a way, I feel this has been a big

> " zahmat " (nastiness) in my life but on the other hand, I am glad

> that He chose me to help the fellow beings. Going back to the

topic. I

> was instructed to read and re-read the material and start

practicing it

> as soon as possible. Once I mastered the basics, my intuition would

> automatically open newer avenues. I marvel at all this. Although, I

> toiled like a slave all my life, had next to nothing by way of

family

> life, yet I am glad that I was able to bring forth this knowledge.

It

> is so fascinating; I marvel at it.

>

> 2. Why did you not give your name as the author of the books?

>

> What difference does it make to have Pt. Roop Chand's name on these

> books? Without my name being used on the book, I am quite well

known.

> Can you imagine how it would multiply the lines outside my house if

> people knew who the author is? Many people in my village (Farwala)

have

> started practicing Lal Kitab astrology because many outsiders do not

> know who the author is. It has been so difficult for my family with

a

> big " hujoom " (crowd) always outside my house. My family never

> enjoyed any privacy ever. To salvage whatever little I can, I shun

> publicity; of course, I cannot shut my doors. Also, since I was in

> Defence organization working for the British India government, it

would

> have been hard to get permission to publish anything. My officers,

both

> British as well as Indians knew what I was doing � in fact, they

all

> used to consult me, yet I decided not to ask for permission to

publish

> under my name. For the 1952 edition, I could have given my name as

the

> author because I took early retirement and was under no governmental

> obligation. To stay anonymous was a decision I had made early in

life

> and I stuck with it all my life. Those who know me, know who I am.

Those

> who don't know me, should be least of my concern.

>

> 3. Why were these books written in Urdu?

>

> In the late 30s, Urdu was the common man's language. I wrote with

> " Aam Public " in mind. Our traditional astrological books are in

> Sanskrit or Sankritised Hindi. I did not want this ilm to become a

> property of the select few � Lal Kitab's purpose is to make

> astrology easy and accessible to general populace and what better

way

> than to write in a language that everyone understood (at that

time.) I

> even used prevalent Punjabi phrases wherever relevant. Here and

there, I

> used Farsi or Arabic words for emphasizing a point just as English

> authors use French or Latin words and phrases. Also, I used Farsi

for

> things, which may not sound decent in our conversational language.

For

> example, to describe certain body parts or diseases, I used Farsi or

> Arabic words.

>

> 4. How come you never charge for your services?

>

> My purpose is to help the " aam duniyaavi saathi " (my fellow

> human beings.) He has been kind to me in that He provided me with

enough

> means to raise my family reasonably comfortably. I am financially

not a

> rich person but I have enough to get by. My purpose has been to help

> people to the best of my ability. By not charging, I retain my

> independence. If I don't want to see someone's horoscope, I am

> at liberty to do so. I do not go to people's house to read their

> horoscopes, regardless of how powerful or rich they may be. Rajas

and

> Generals have come into my Baithak as have the Chief Ministers and

other

> high placed officials. I have never asked anyone for a favour, One

of

> the ministers got our village connected to the main road so that

people

> can get here without much difficulty. (The road led right to

> Panditji's house in Farwala.) The rest of the village has benefited

> as a result. Last year, I went for a checkup at All India Institute

of

> Medical Sciences in Delhi. Some of its senior doctors have come to

me in

> the past. You should have seen how they were all surrounding me.

People

> were trying to figure out as to who this V.I.P. is. I told my son

(Pt.

> Som Dutt) " You always ask me what have I earned in my life? Can you

> count the number of Doctors trying to look after me? " They were all

> too eager to help me. At times, I go to the nearby town of Phillaur

> (where Punjab Police training academy is located.) All the Police

higher

> ups get out of their cars and with folded hands, show me their

respect.

> Why do they do so?

>

> regards,

> Lalit Mishra,

> www.Vedicastrologyandhealing

> <http://www.Vedicastrologyandhealing>

>

 

[Guest guest]

, " rpsingh2710 "

<rpsingh2710 wrote:

>...

> Myths and the reality of the Lal Kitab

>

>

> At the outset I must make it very clear that I am neither

> enamored by the book nor wish to belittle it. My interest

> in astrology is entirely academic and my approach

> therefore very objective and detached .

>

> Q 4 . What are the advantages of the Lal Kitab system ?

>

> This is the only system of astrology which provides ‘samadhan’

in the

> form of easy to do simple remedies. These remedies have been found

> to be quite effective. In the vedic system the remedies invariably

> are

> jaap,daan havan, elaborate poojas etc, where as the remedies of the

> Lal Kitab are based on the folk remedies. These folk remedies are

> based on the collective folk wisdom going back to centuries.

> ...

 

 

Dear Posters,

 

While my 2 cents may not make any sense to you or even be worthy of

your attention, perhaps the best way to serve lal kitaab or remedial

jyotish and its relevance and validity etc should begin with some

organized documentation of the success stories!

 

Mind you, once in a while it has been done on internet but very few

of these accounts have been met with or characterized by scrutiny and

often turn out to be sermons to the converted!

 

People in a large scale sense are logical. It may take generations or

lot of effort but the destiny of Human Experience is to see patterns

in Chaos! To see God in Maya!!

 

Astrology and remedial astrology is a beautiful venue to test that

concept.

 

But someone devoted and really passionate would have to put the time

and organize available facts, and do so critically and perhaps a

group effort would be better because it will bring together people of

different background, education and capabilities and the product will

be more satisfying. As opposed to helter-skelter which never

addresses chaos very effectively. Like the Caterpillar in Alice in

Wonderland said: My dear, begin at the beginning and work your way to

the end! "

 

Alice in Wonderland is not a silly story or a fairy tale! Nor is

Jyotish or in broader sense Astrology!

 

Rohiniranjan

[Guest guest]

Dear Mr. Singh,

 

I have read this information in the lal kitaab group, thanx for

addressing to me, I m posting one interesting remedy for sun placed

in 6'th house, it's by priya -

 

Sun in the 6th house upaya : its logic

 

One of the upaya suggested is to keep a `paisa' offered by some one

else at a religious place. Up to our school days `Paisa' was a copper

coin of the smallest denomination.

 

The 6th house is considered as the `Paatal ka ghar' { house

representing paatal}. `Paatal' is the under-world ; like the heaven

is up above the sky similarly the paatal is a world of dark forces

and is considered deep down the earth. In that deep down world the

Sun loses its luster; and all the qualities the Sun stands for, get

hidden or over-shadowed in that darkness. In the 6th house the Sun no

longer remains the King, it becomes a subordinate or a servant { 6th

house represents subordinates / servants }

 

Therefore the Sun has to be brought out into the light so that it

acquires its lost luster and regain all the qualities it stands for.

In other words the Sun has to be retrieved.

 

The Sun is copper color, round and represents the stately power. A

coin represents the Sun, because it is of copper, it is round and has

the seal of the state marked on it.

 

Keeping a coin, irrespective of the fact whether it has been offered

at a temple or not, would have retrieved the Sun from the deep down

world of `paatal'.

 

But the upaya suggested is to keep a coin {preferably of copper }

which had been offered by some one else at a religious place.

 

In order to reveal the qualities of the Sun the help of Jupiter is

solicited. Jupiter is not only a friend of the Sun, but a planet

which represents divine goodness too. Jupiter is the karak of dharma-

sthan – a religious place {2nd house} . Therefore it is believed that

a thing offered at a temple is blessed by Jupiter and sanctified by

the presiding deity of that temple. In this way the Sun { a copper

coin offered } will get strengthened and sanctified.

 

Therefore keeping it on the person means that the blessed Sun is not

only retrieved it is also established [ sthaapit ] in the 1st house

which will help the Sun to reveal its qualities . The Sun in the 1st

house is considered as exalted.

 

Thus the Sun strengthened by Jupiter and blessed by the God will

regain its lost glory which it might have lost by being in the dark

world of `paatal'.

 

But why a coin offered by some one else and not your own coin which

could be offered at a temple and later taken back and kept. The

reason is that any thing you offer at a temple, only a part of it can

be taken back by you as prasaad. You can not take back the whole of

what you have offered.

 

Bhooshan Priya

 

 

, " rpsingh2710 "

<rpsingh2710 wrote:

>

> Dear Mishra ji,

>

> Just placing a few facts into perspective:

>

> [ 1 ] Marking the Lagna as # 1 is to denote the house or

> the 'bhava'. Lal Kitab is a system which is based on 'bhava'

> or 'house' called 'khanaa' rather than rasi.

>

> [ 2 ] In the Janma kundali cast with time,date and place of birth

the

> planets obey the universally accepted norms like the Rahu and ketu

> will be 7 houses apart or the Sun, mercury and venus will be in

close

> proximity. It is only in the Varsh Phal kundali that Rahu and Ketu

> might be close to each other but never in the same house.

> Kundali drawn through the signs on the palm might have the planets

> not following the accepted norms. But then it is palmistry and not

> astrology as we know it.

>

> [ 3 ] Lal Kitab uses the Vinshottari dasha, although it has its own

> dasha form of 35 years like the traditional Yogini dasha.

>

> [ 4 ] The method to cast a horoscope of twins etc has not been

> described in the Lal Kitab. Yes the book says that the child born

> first will be considered as younger.

>

> I am quoting below a small note [ not written by me] on the myths

and

> the reality of Lal Kitab which might be of interest to you.

>

> sincerely,

>

> RP Singh

>

>

> Myths and the reality of the Lal Kitab

>

>

> At the outset I must make it very clear that I am neither

> enamored by the book nor wish to belittle it. My interest

> in astrology is entirely academic and my approach

> therefore very objective and detached .

>

> Question 1. What is the basis of this scripture ?

>

> There are quite a few astrology paddhatis prevalent in India

today,

> be it KP , System's Approach , Krushna's ashtakvarg etc. they are

all

> either elaborations or modifications upon the traditionally accepted

> Vedic astrology. Across all these paddhatis the basic parameters are

> the same . They differ either in approach or emphasis , the aim

being

> the same in all cases.

> Lal Kitab also draws its basics from the Vedic astrology , but it

> differs in approach or what the book calls " grammer " ; and the

> emphasis is not so much on predicting the future as on

> solving the problem of today , hence the importance of Upaya.

> Therefore Lal Kitab is seldom used for long term predictions

> although it could well be. The very first page of the book states

> the two purposes the Lal Kitab is meant for : (a ) to help remove

> the blockage in the flow of fortune's water and ( b ) to help erect

> an obstacle in the path of adversity thus saving the native from

> misery .

>

> Therefore I believe that the Lal Kitab is as much a part

> of tradition as any other paddhati .

>

> Q.2 When and where it came into existance ?

>

> There are FIVE separate publications with varying length :

> 1939 ed of 383 pages, 1940ed of 284 pages;1941ed of 428 pages,

> 1942ed of 384 pages and finally the1952ed of 1173 pages.

>

> Surprisingly the name of the author has not been mentioned

> in any of these editions , instead they carry the name of the

> publisher , shri Girdhari Lal Sharma and his photograph.

> If it were an original work by any author, he definitely

> would have got his name on it.

>

> There are so many myths and legends about this book that it

> is really very difficult to sieve out the facts. These myths seem

> to have been woven around the book to make it look divine or some

> thing ‘out of this world’. Let me take them up one by one.

>

> { a }….that the book was written by Pt. Roop Chand Joshi.

> Some people , specially from Punjab ( probably for parochial

> reasons),

> believe that the Lal Kitab was written , as an original work,

> by Pt. Roop Chand Joshi and he did not put his name as an

> author because he was in Government service under the British.

> I do not understand why Joshi ji could not have put his name as an

> author.

> The British might have been against writing seditious material but

> not a

> book on astrology . Even if that being true he could have used his

> name in the 1952 edition , there were no British then nor he was in

> service

> any longer. Pt. Roop Chand Joshi was a very honest and a saintly

> person,

> he couldn’t have claimed something that was never his.

>

> { b } ... that the book was revealed in a dream .

> Never heard of dreams in installments and that too spreading

> over a period of twelve years. Because that is what alone

> could justify five publications spread over a period of 12 or 13

> years.

> Not many takers for this fiction.

>

> { c }... that the book was received as an ilham , kind of through

> a revelation, thus adding mystical sanctity to the book. If that

were

> true the Lal Kitab would be the second book in human history to be

> revealed to the mankind , the first being the Quran. This was an

> effort to make it appear as sacrosanct so that there

> could be no criticism or scientific evaluation of the book.

> This belief has done more harm than good to the book.

> Well no body with a scientific frame of mind is going to

> believe that story either.

>

> { d } ... that this book was written by Arun the charioteer of Sun

> god. Later Ravan took it away to Lanka and from there it

> reached the middle east. It traveled back to India. This was an

> effort to get the book into the Samhita ranks , like other

> astrological samhitas in the name of rishis ,while at the same

> time trying to justify the use of urdu and persian words.

> Not many people believe that either.

>

>

> The fact is very simple : this is a book of astrology and that

> it was first published in 1939 by shri Girdhari Lal Sharma

> All subsequent publications are elaborations / explanations

> of the original. Every thing else about the book is irrelevant.

> All these books are available with some individuals or in the

> libraries.

>

>

> Summarizing, all these stories about the book have been woven

> around by Lal Kitab semi-literates to hide their incompetence and

> instill in the minds of their clients an awe and reverence for the

> book.

> Reverence or faith in any system is built on its efficiency rather

> than

> through such non-scientific humbug of trying to make the book

appear

> as divine. Therefore I believe that this book is a documentation of

> the

> then prevalent thoughts and beliefs in the Northern Hills of India.

>

>

> Q.3 Which Vedic parampara it comes from ?

>

> Of course from the same parampara { tradition } as Sanket

nidhi ,

> Jatak

> Parijat ,Sarvarth Chintamani etc. You have to bear in mind that

> this book is a result of collective wisdom of a society which

> had lived in isolation of the northern hills for centuries . This

> tradition is still in use all the way from Kashmir to the

> Garhwal hills of Uttaranchal. In the Punjab it came to be known

> as Lal kitab , because of its first documentation appeared in the

> red binding,

> As the societies living in isolation grow their own idiom ,

> culture and points of references , similarly this tradition of

> astrology had also developed its own idiom and 'grammar'.

> But the difference of idiom or the grammar does not make

> it come from any other parampara { tradition } . You know the growth

> of Indo-European languages.

>

> Q 4 . What are the advantages of the Lal Kitab system ?

>

> This is the only system of astrology which provides ‘samadhan’

in the

> form of easy to do simple remedies. These remedies have been found

> to be quite effective. In the vedic system the remedies invariably

> are

> jaap,daan havan, elaborate poojas etc, where as the remedies of the

> Lal Kitab are based on the folk remedies. These folk remedies are

> based on the collective folk wisdom going back to centuries.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

, " litsol " <mishra.lalit@>

> wrote:

> >

> >

> > (Note : I m not author of the article, I only collected and

> collated)

> >

> > Please note that the intention is to only highlight the

differences

> > between Lal Kitab method and the classical Indian astrology. This

> is not

> > at all meant to be a criticism of any school of astrology.

> >

> > Pandit Roop Chand Joshi had the highest respect and regard for

the

> sages

> > and the scholars, current and of the years past, who founded this

> > knowledge for the good of everyone. Lal Kitab is an extension of

the

> > existing Indian astrological system.

> >

> > 1. Ascendant or Lagna (the first house in a horoscope) is always

> > considered to be having Aries sign in it. A traditional Indian

> > horoscope is converted to the Lal Kitab system by changing the

Lagna

> > sign to Aries and the sign of the second house to Taurus and so

on.

> The

> > planets that are in these houses are not changed, only the Rashis

> > (signs) are changed. This removes the need for having to

consider

> the

> > " Lord of the first " (Lagnesh) or Dhanesh, Shashtesh etc. Each

> > house in a horoscope has been assigned a fixed lordship of a

Rashi,

> > which is Aries for the first house, Taurus for the second house

and

> so

> > on.

> >

> > 2. Rahu and Ketu, (the lunar nodes) which are always seven houses

> (180

> > degrees) apart from each other in the traditional Indian

astrology,

> do

> > not have to be bound by this condition. Especially, while making

an

> > annual progressed horoscope using Lal Kitab's Varshphal table,

these

> > two may or may not be seven houses apart. These two can even

occupy

> > adjoining houses. Rahu and Ketu can even be together, when a

> horoscope

> > is made based on one's palm or the house that one lives in (Makaan

> > Kundli.)

> >

> > 3. In the traditional Indian astrology, Sun, Mercury and Venus are

> > always positioned close by. Lal Kitab removes this condition

also.

> These

> > planets can be spread all over the horoscope, distant from each

> other,

> > just as in the case of Rahu and Ketu.

> >

> > 4. Multiple planets that are together in the birth chart in a

> particular

> > house, remain grouped together for the rest of one's life. While

> > preparing the annual horoscope, these planets move together as a

> group.

> > For example, if one has Jupiter, Sun and Saturn together in the

> first

> > house in the birth chart, these planets will move together to the

> fourth

> > house in one's 25th year of life (See the Varshphal table in the

Lal

> > Kitab for details.)

> >

> > 5. In order to judge a horoscope, one need not consider the

> Nakshtra

> > (constellation) or Rashi. Also Lal Kitab does not consider the

> effect

> > of transition of planets (gochar) thus eliminating the need for an

> > almanac. The only time one needs an almanac is, when one is

> preparing

> > the natal birth chart. After that, an almanac is not needed at

all,

> > ever.

> >

> > " Rashi chhor nakshatra bhoola, naa hee koi

> > panchaang liya,

> > Mekh raashi khud lagna ko gin kar, barah

pakke

> ghar

> > maan gayaa "

> >

> > Roughly translated:

> >

> > " He " disregarded the constellations and the birth sign and got

> > rid of the almanac (where one considers current planetary

> transitions)

> > " He " fixed Aries as the sign in the first house and similarly

> > the twelve signs in the twelve houses of the horoscope.

> >

> > 6. All the things around us have been fixed as representatives

of,

> or

> > belonging to, the nine planets. Relatives, professions, things

> placed

> > in a dwelling including cattle, pets, trees, plants etc.

establish

> good

> > or evil effect of a planet.

> >

> > 7. Need for Navaansh and other charts, such as Saptaansh etc. has

> been

> > completely eliminated from Lal Kitab consideration. Only the

basic

> natal

> > chart is required. Lal Kitab has its own way of making the Chandra

> > Kundli, which is looked at in special circumstances.

> >

> > 8. Lal Kitab neither has Vinshottari Maha dashaa, nor the Sade

Sati

> > consideration of Saturn. It does, however, have its own planetary

> cycle

> > of thirty-five years.

> >

> > 9. Mangaleek dosh has been eliminated from consideration.

However,

> since

> > Mars has been assigned two mounts on the hand (Upper and Lower

> mounts)

> > Lal Kitab considers Mars as giving dual effect � good and evil.

> >

> > 10. A method for casting horoscopes of twins, triplets, etc. has

> been

> > described in the Lal Kitab. This method provides distinct

horoscope

> for

> > each child. The later born of the twins is considered older.

> >

> > 11. For timing of events, Lal Kitab provides a methodology that

goes

> > into as much detail as hours, minutes and seconds. Again, this

> facility

> > neither requires complex calculations, nor the use of an almanac.

> >

> > 12. Malefic effect of planets can be of two types: Graha Phal

and

> Rashi

> > Phal. An Upaya can be utilized to guard against the Rashi Phal

> effect.

> > Graha Phal can not be altered by ordinary mortal beings. It is

the

> > Rashi Phal effect that can be modified using the upayas.

> >

> > 13. Lal Kitab system neither prescribes nor prohibits fasts.

> >

> > 14. Lal Kitab is neither a Tantrik book nor does it have anything

> to do

> > with witchcraft. The whole idea behind the upayas is to take

> advantage

> > of the " doubtful " position of certain planets and minimize their

> > evil effects. Ordinary mortal beings cannot completely eliminate

the

> > evil effect of a planet; however the evil effect can, generally,

be

> > reduced. The Lal Kitab system does not claim to be " God's

> > promise "

> > " Duniyaavi hisaab kitabb hai, koi daawaa-e-khudaai nahin "

> >

> > 15. Lal Kitab system can not be used to harm others; there is no

> > provision in it to do that. This system attempts to defend one

> against

> > evil planetary effects.

> >

> > 16. Lal Kitab system is secular in nature. In order to perform an

> upaya,

> > one can go to one's religious place of choice, which could be a

> > temple, a gurudwara or, a mosque or church. If one feels that one

> cannot

> > perform an upaya in one of these religious places, or in case one

> is an

> > atheist, the upayas can be performed at an intersection where two

> roads

> > intersect at a right angle.

> >

> > 17. All the upayas are to be performed between dawn and dusk.

There

> are

> > only two or three exceptions and those are explicitly mentioned

in

> the

> > Lal Kitab. There is absolutely no requirement to perform

particular

> > upayas on particular days (unless specifically mentioned.) These

> upayas

> > can be performed by one's blood relatives or spouse (male or

> > female.) Any variation of this rule would be a figment of one's

> > imagination and against the principles of this system.

> >

> > 18. As stated before, this system does not consider itself

superior

> to

> > other prevalent systems of astrology.

> >

> > 19. The Lal Kitab should be utilized to help others:

> >

> > Kar Bhalaa hoga bhalaa, Jab tak naa ho, bhalay ka buraa

> >

> > 20. And finally, Pandit Roop Chand Ji blessed all the readers and

> > practitioners of the Lal Kitab system:

> >

> > Khush Raho Aabaad Duniya, Maal-o-zar Badhtey raho,

> > Madad Maalik apni dega, Neki khud kartey chalo

> >

> > May you all be happy and prosperous. Possess material

> goods; God

> > will help you if you will help others (through the knowledge

> contained

> > in these books.)

> >

> > *** *****

> > AN INTERVIEW WITH PT. ROOP CHAND JOSHI � December 1982.

> >

> > I had the distinct privilege of meeting Pt. Roop Chand Joshi ,

many

> > times. I live in the United States and although Panditji never

> cared to

> > know my name, yet he was always very kind to me. When I met him

> for the

> > last time on November 14, 1982, he looked frail and yet he had

> > brightness in his eyes, and a very energetic and charismatic

look.

> After

> > he read a couple of horoscopes for me (I was the last one that

> morning;

> > Pt. Som Dutt had already shut the entrance door to indicate that

> > Panditji was not available for the day.) I was taking leave of

him,

> I

> > wished him well and told him that we'd be meeting again in another

> > year or so. That is when he declared that it was our last meeting.

> > " I am not going to be around for the next meeting. It is time for

me

> > to depart. Do you wish to ask me anything? " I asked Panditji

these

> > questions and took very rough notes:

> >

> > 1. How did this knowledge come to you? People have all sorts of

> stories

> > about it?

> > As a youngster, I had intuition and was able to read palms and

> faces.

> > Lots of times, for no rhyme or reason, I would say something and

it

> > would come out to be true. Yet, I was not serious about it. I was

> more

> > concerned about my work ands my studies. It was that fateful

night;

> I

> > had come to Pharwala on my first annual leave for two months. The

> very

> > first night, this " taaqat " (Power) appeared to me in my dream

> > and told me that I was to be taught this " ilm " (knowledge) The

> > next morning, something made me pick up a pencil and a notebook

and

> my

> > fingers started writing what was discussed the night before. I

> tried to

> > resist it, but it was of no avail. All during my leave, everyday

> this

> > " exercise " continued. I would be almost in a semi-conscious

> > state. It was scary. And, I could not take my attention off

this. I

> > knew that I had been had (hearty laugh). And was I ever? Till

this

> day,

> > I am 84 years old now, this ilm has been haunting me if you want

to

> call

> > it that way. I can't go anywhere, people recognize me and ask me

to

> > read their horoscope. In a way, I feel this has been a big

> > " zahmat " (nastiness) in my life but on the other hand, I am glad

> > that He chose me to help the fellow beings. Going back to the

> topic. I

> > was instructed to read and re-read the material and start

> practicing it

> > as soon as possible. Once I mastered the basics, my intuition

would

> > automatically open newer avenues. I marvel at all this. Although,

I

> > toiled like a slave all my life, had next to nothing by way of

> family

> > life, yet I am glad that I was able to bring forth this

knowledge.

> It

> > is so fascinating; I marvel at it.

> >

> > 2. Why did you not give your name as the author of the books?

> >

> > What difference does it make to have Pt. Roop Chand's name on

these

> > books? Without my name being used on the book, I am quite well

> known.

> > Can you imagine how it would multiply the lines outside my house

if

> > people knew who the author is? Many people in my village

(Farwala)

> have

> > started practicing Lal Kitab astrology because many outsiders do

not

> > know who the author is. It has been so difficult for my family

with

> a

> > big " hujoom " (crowd) always outside my house. My family never

> > enjoyed any privacy ever. To salvage whatever little I can, I shun

> > publicity; of course, I cannot shut my doors. Also, since I was

in

> > Defence organization working for the British India government, it

> would

> > have been hard to get permission to publish anything. My

officers,

> both

> > British as well as Indians knew what I was doing � in fact,

they

> all

> > used to consult me, yet I decided not to ask for permission to

> publish

> > under my name. For the 1952 edition, I could have given my name

as

> the

> > author because I took early retirement and was under no

governmental

> > obligation. To stay anonymous was a decision I had made early in

> life

> > and I stuck with it all my life. Those who know me, know who I

am.

> Those

> > who don't know me, should be least of my concern.

> >

> > 3. Why were these books written in Urdu?

> >

> > In the late 30s, Urdu was the common man's language. I wrote

with

> > " Aam Public " in mind. Our traditional astrological books are in

> > Sanskrit or Sankritised Hindi. I did not want this ilm to become a

> > property of the select few � Lal Kitab's purpose is to make

> > astrology easy and accessible to general populace and what better

> way

> > than to write in a language that everyone understood (at that

> time.) I

> > even used prevalent Punjabi phrases wherever relevant. Here and

> there, I

> > used Farsi or Arabic words for emphasizing a point just as English

> > authors use French or Latin words and phrases. Also, I used Farsi

> for

> > things, which may not sound decent in our conversational

language.

> For

> > example, to describe certain body parts or diseases, I used Farsi

or

> > Arabic words.

> >

> > 4. How come you never charge for your services?

> >

> > My purpose is to help the " aam duniyaavi saathi " (my fellow

> > human beings.) He has been kind to me in that He provided me with

> enough

> > means to raise my family reasonably comfortably. I am financially

> not a

> > rich person but I have enough to get by. My purpose has been to

help

> > people to the best of my ability. By not charging, I retain my

> > independence. If I don't want to see someone's horoscope, I am

> > at liberty to do so. I do not go to people's house to read their

> > horoscopes, regardless of how powerful or rich they may be. Rajas

> and

> > Generals have come into my Baithak as have the Chief Ministers

and

> other

> > high placed officials. I have never asked anyone for a favour,

One

> of

> > the ministers got our village connected to the main road so that

> people

> > can get here without much difficulty. (The road led right to

> > Panditji's house in Farwala.) The rest of the village has

benefited

> > as a result. Last year, I went for a checkup at All India

Institute

> of

> > Medical Sciences in Delhi. Some of its senior doctors have come

to

> me in

> > the past. You should have seen how they were all surrounding me.

> People

> > were trying to figure out as to who this V.I.P. is. I told my

son

> (Pt.

> > Som Dutt) " You always ask me what have I earned in my life? Can

you

> > count the number of Doctors trying to look after me? " They were

all

> > too eager to help me. At times, I go to the nearby town of

Phillaur

> > (where Punjab Police training academy is located.) All the Police

> higher

> > ups get out of their cars and with folded hands, show me their

> respect.

> > Why do they do so?

> >

> > regards,

> > Lalit Mishra,

> > www.Vedicastrologyandhealing

> > <http://www.Vedicastrologyandhealing>

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Dear Mishra ji,

 

That is how the Lal Kitab remedies are devised. So very logical,

simple and easy to do.

 

You would probably know that Pt. Bhooshan Priya was a professor at

the IIT Delhi before he retired in 2004.

 

With regards,

 

RP Singh

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

, " litsol " <mishra.lalit

wrote:

>

> Dear Mr. Singh,

>

> I have read this information in the lal kitaab group, thanx for

> addressing to me, I m posting one interesting remedy for sun placed

> in 6'th house, it's by priya -

>

> Sun in the 6th house upaya : its logic

>

> One of the upaya suggested is to keep a `paisa' offered by some one

> else at a religious place. Up to our school days `Paisa' was a

copper

> coin of the smallest denomination.

>

> The 6th house is considered as the `Paatal ka ghar' { house

> representing paatal}. `Paatal' is the under-world ; like the

heaven

> is up above the sky similarly the paatal is a world of dark forces

> and is considered deep down the earth. In that deep down world the

> Sun loses its luster; and all the qualities the Sun stands for,

get

> hidden or over-shadowed in that darkness. In the 6th house the Sun

no

> longer remains the King, it becomes a subordinate or a servant {

6th

> house represents subordinates / servants }

>

> Therefore the Sun has to be brought out into the light so that it

> acquires its lost luster and regain all the qualities it stands

for.

> In other words the Sun has to be retrieved.

>

> The Sun is copper color, round and represents the stately power. A

> coin represents the Sun, because it is of copper, it is round and

has

> the seal of the state marked on it.

>

> Keeping a coin, irrespective of the fact whether it has been

offered

> at a temple or not, would have retrieved the Sun from the deep down

> world of `paatal'.

>

> But the upaya suggested is to keep a coin {preferably of copper }

> which had been offered by some one else at a religious place.

>

> In order to reveal the qualities of the Sun the help of Jupiter is

> solicited. Jupiter is not only a friend of the Sun, but a planet

> which represents divine goodness too. Jupiter is the karak of

dharma-

> sthan � a religious place {2nd house} . Therefore it is believed

that

> a thing offered at a temple is blessed by Jupiter and sanctified by

> the presiding deity of that temple. In this way the Sun { a copper

> coin offered } will get strengthened and sanctified.

>

> Therefore keeping it on the person means that the blessed Sun is

not

> only retrieved it is also established [ sthaapit ] in the 1st house

> which will help the Sun to reveal its qualities . The Sun in the

1st

> house is considered as exalted.

>

> Thus the Sun strengthened by Jupiter and blessed by the God will

> regain its lost glory which it might have lost by being in the dark

> world of `paatal'.

>

> But why a coin offered by some one else and not your own coin which

> could be offered at a temple and later taken back and kept. The

> reason is that any thing you offer at a temple, only a part of it

can

> be taken back by you as prasaad. You can not take back the whole of

> what you have offered.

>

> Bhooshan Priya

>

>

> , " rpsingh2710 "

> <rpsingh2710@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Mishra ji,

> >

> > Just placing a few facts into perspective:

> >

> > [ 1 ] Marking the Lagna as # 1 is to denote the house or

> > the 'bhava'. Lal Kitab is a system which is based on 'bhava'

> > or 'house' called 'khanaa' rather than rasi.

> >

> > [ 2 ] In the Janma kundali cast with time,date and place of birth

> the

> > planets obey the universally accepted norms like the Rahu and

ketu

> > will be 7 houses apart or the Sun, mercury and venus will be in

> close

> > proximity. It is only in the Varsh Phal kundali that Rahu and

Ketu

> > might be close to each other but never in the same house.

> > Kundali drawn through the signs on the palm might have the

planets

> > not following the accepted norms. But then it is palmistry and

not

> > astrology as we know it.

> >

> > [ 3 ] Lal Kitab uses the Vinshottari dasha, although it has its

own

> > dasha form of 35 years like the traditional Yogini dasha.

> >

> > [ 4 ] The method to cast a horoscope of twins etc has not been

> > described in the Lal Kitab. Yes the book says that the child born

> > first will be considered as younger.

> >

> > I am quoting below a small note [ not written by me] on the myths

> and

> > the reality of Lal Kitab which might be of interest to you.

> >

> > sincerely,

> >

> > RP Singh

> >

> >

> > Myths and the reality of the Lal Kitab

> >

> >

> > At the outset I must make it very clear that I am neither

> > enamored by the book nor wish to belittle it. My interest

> > in astrology is entirely academic and my approach

> > therefore very objective and detached .

> >

> > Question 1. What is the basis of this scripture ?

> >

> > There are quite a few astrology paddhatis prevalent in India

> today,

> > be it KP , System's Approach , Krushna's ashtakvarg etc. they are

> all

> > either elaborations or modifications upon the traditionally

accepted

> > Vedic astrology. Across all these paddhatis the basic parameters

are

> > the same . They differ either in approach or emphasis , the aim

> being

> > the same in all cases.

> > Lal Kitab also draws its basics from the Vedic astrology , but

it

> > differs in approach or what the book calls " grammer " ; and the

> > emphasis is not so much on predicting the future as on

> > solving the problem of today , hence the importance of Upaya.

> > Therefore Lal Kitab is seldom used for long term predictions

> > although it could well be. The very first page of the book states

> > the two purposes the Lal Kitab is meant for : (a ) to help remove

> > the blockage in the flow of fortune's water and ( b ) to help

erect

> > an obstacle in the path of adversity thus saving the native from

> > misery .

> >

> > Therefore I believe that the Lal Kitab is as much a part

> > of tradition as any other paddhati .

> >

> > Q.2 When and where it came into existance ?

> >

> > There are FIVE separate publications with varying length :

> > 1939 ed of 383 pages, 1940ed of 284 pages;1941ed of 428 pages,

> > 1942ed of 384 pages and finally the1952ed of 1173 pages.

> >

> > Surprisingly the name of the author has not been mentioned

> > in any of these editions , instead they carry the name of the

> > publisher , shri Girdhari Lal Sharma and his photograph.

> > If it were an original work by any author, he definitely

> > would have got his name on it.

> >

> > There are so many myths and legends about this book that it

> > is really very difficult to sieve out the facts. These myths seem

> > to have been woven around the book to make it look divine or some

> > thing ‘out of this world’. Let me take them up one by one.

> >

> > { a }….that the book was written by Pt. Roop Chand Joshi.

> > Some people , specially from Punjab ( probably for parochial

> > reasons),

> > believe that the Lal Kitab was written , as an original work,

> > by Pt. Roop Chand Joshi and he did not put his name as an

> > author because he was in Government service under the British.

> > I do not understand why Joshi ji could not have put his name as

an

> > author.

> > The British might have been against writing seditious material

but

> > not a

> > book on astrology . Even if that being true he could have used his

> > name in the 1952 edition , there were no British then nor he was

in

> > service

> > any longer. Pt. Roop Chand Joshi was a very honest and a saintly

> > person,

> > he couldn’t have claimed something that was never his.

> >

> > { b } ... that the book was revealed in a dream .

> > Never heard of dreams in installments and that too spreading

> > over a period of twelve years. Because that is what alone

> > could justify five publications spread over a period of 12 or 13

> > years.

> > Not many takers for this fiction.

> >

> > { c }... that the book was received as an ilham , kind of through

> > a revelation, thus adding mystical sanctity to the book. If that

> were

> > true the Lal Kitab would be the second book in human history to

be

> > revealed to the mankind , the first being the Quran. This was an

> > effort to make it appear as sacrosanct so that there

> > could be no criticism or scientific evaluation of the book.

> > This belief has done more harm than good to the book.

> > Well no body with a scientific frame of mind is going to

> > believe that story either.

> >

> > { d } ... that this book was written by Arun the charioteer of Sun

> > god. Later Ravan took it away to Lanka and from there it

> > reached the middle east. It traveled back to India. This was an

> > effort to get the book into the Samhita ranks , like other

> > astrological samhitas in the name of rishis ,while at the same

> > time trying to justify the use of urdu and persian words.

> > Not many people believe that either.

> >

> >

> > The fact is very simple : this is a book of astrology and that

> > it was first published in 1939 by shri Girdhari Lal Sharma

> > All subsequent publications are elaborations / explanations

> > of the original. Every thing else about the book is irrelevant.

> > All these books are available with some individuals or in the

> > libraries.

> >

> >

> > Summarizing, all these stories about the book have been woven

> > around by Lal Kitab semi-literates to hide their incompetence

and

> > instill in the minds of their clients an awe and reverence for

the

> > book.

> > Reverence or faith in any system is built on its efficiency

rather

> > than

> > through such non-scientific humbug of trying to make the book

> appear

> > as divine. Therefore I believe that this book is a documentation

of

> > the

> > then prevalent thoughts and beliefs in the Northern Hills of

India.

> >

> >

> > Q.3 Which Vedic parampara it comes from ?

> >

> > Of course from the same parampara { tradition } as Sanket

> nidhi ,

> > Jatak

> > Parijat ,Sarvarth Chintamani etc. You have to bear in mind that

> > this book is a result of collective wisdom of a society which

> > had lived in isolation of the northern hills for centuries . This

> > tradition is still in use all the way from Kashmir to the

> > Garhwal hills of Uttaranchal. In the Punjab it came to be known

> > as Lal kitab , because of its first documentation appeared in the

> > red binding,

> > As the societies living in isolation grow their own idiom ,

> > culture and points of references , similarly this tradition of

> > astrology had also developed its own idiom and 'grammar'.

> > But the difference of idiom or the grammar does not make

> > it come from any other parampara { tradition } . You know the

growth

> > of Indo-European languages.

> >

> > Q 4 . What are the advantages of the Lal Kitab system ?

> >

> > This is the only system of astrology which provides ‘samadhan’

> in the

> > form of easy to do simple remedies. These remedies have been

found

> > to be quite effective. In the vedic system the remedies

invariably

> > are

> > jaap,daan havan, elaborate poojas etc, where as the remedies of

the

> > Lal Kitab are based on the folk remedies. These folk remedies

are

> > based on the collective folk wisdom going back to centuries.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > , " litsol " <mishra.lalit@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > >

> > > (Note : I m not author of the article, I only collected and

> > collated)

> > >

> > > Please note that the intention is to only highlight the

> differences

> > > between Lal Kitab method and the classical Indian astrology.

This

> > is not

> > > at all meant to be a criticism of any school of astrology.

> > >

> > > Pandit Roop Chand Joshi had the highest respect and regard for

> the

> > sages

> > > and the scholars, current and of the years past, who founded

this

> > > knowledge for the good of everyone. Lal Kitab is an extension

of

> the

> > > existing Indian astrological system.

> > >

> > > 1. Ascendant or Lagna (the first house in a horoscope) is always

> > > considered to be having Aries sign in it. A traditional Indian

> > > horoscope is converted to the Lal Kitab system by changing the

> Lagna

> > > sign to Aries and the sign of the second house to Taurus and so

> on.

> > The

> > > planets that are in these houses are not changed, only the

Rashis

> > > (signs) are changed. This removes the need for having to

> consider

> > the

> > > " Lord of the first " (Lagnesh) or Dhanesh, Shashtesh etc. Each

> > > house in a horoscope has been assigned a fixed lordship of a

> Rashi,

> > > which is Aries for the first house, Taurus for the second house

> and

> > so

> > > on.

> > >

> > > 2. Rahu and Ketu, (the lunar nodes) which are always seven

houses

> > (180

> > > degrees) apart from each other in the traditional Indian

> astrology,

> > do

> > > not have to be bound by this condition. Especially, while

making

> an

> > > annual progressed horoscope using Lal Kitab's Varshphal table,

> these

> > > two may or may not be seven houses apart. These two can even

> occupy

> > > adjoining houses. Rahu and Ketu can even be together, when a

> > horoscope

> > > is made based on one's palm or the house that one lives in

(Makaan

> > > Kundli.)

> > >

> > > 3. In the traditional Indian astrology, Sun, Mercury and Venus

are

> > > always positioned close by. Lal Kitab removes this condition

> also.

> > These

> > > planets can be spread all over the horoscope, distant from each

> > other,

> > > just as in the case of Rahu and Ketu.

> > >

> > > 4. Multiple planets that are together in the birth chart in a

> > particular

> > > house, remain grouped together for the rest of one's life. While

> > > preparing the annual horoscope, these planets move together as

a

> > group.

> > > For example, if one has Jupiter, Sun and Saturn together in the

> > first

> > > house in the birth chart, these planets will move together to

the

> > fourth

> > > house in one's 25th year of life (See the Varshphal table in

the

> Lal

> > > Kitab for details.)

> > >

> > > 5. In order to judge a horoscope, one need not consider the

> > Nakshtra

> > > (constellation) or Rashi. Also Lal Kitab does not consider the

> > effect

> > > of transition of planets (gochar) thus eliminating the need for

an

> > > almanac. The only time one needs an almanac is, when one is

> > preparing

> > > the natal birth chart. After that, an almanac is not needed at

> all,

> > > ever.

> > >

> > > " Rashi chhor nakshatra bhoola, naa hee koi

> > > panchaang liya,

> > > Mekh raashi khud lagna ko gin kar, barah

> pakke

> > ghar

> > > maan gayaa "

> > >

> > > Roughly translated:

> > >

> > > " He " disregarded the constellations and the birth sign and got

> > > rid of the almanac (where one considers current planetary

> > transitions)

> > > " He " fixed Aries as the sign in the first house and similarly

> > > the twelve signs in the twelve houses of the horoscope.

> > >

> > > 6. All the things around us have been fixed as representatives

> of,

> > or

> > > belonging to, the nine planets. Relatives, professions, things

> > placed

> > > in a dwelling including cattle, pets, trees, plants etc.

> establish

> > good

> > > or evil effect of a planet.

> > >

> > > 7. Need for Navaansh and other charts, such as Saptaansh etc.

has

> > been

> > > completely eliminated from Lal Kitab consideration. Only the

> basic

> > natal

> > > chart is required. Lal Kitab has its own way of making the

Chandra

> > > Kundli, which is looked at in special circumstances.

> > >

> > > 8. Lal Kitab neither has Vinshottari Maha dashaa, nor the Sade

> Sati

> > > consideration of Saturn. It does, however, have its own

planetary

> > cycle

> > > of thirty-five years.

> > >

> > > 9. Mangaleek dosh has been eliminated from consideration.

> However,

> > since

> > > Mars has been assigned two mounts on the hand (Upper and Lower

> > mounts)

> > > Lal Kitab considers Mars as giving dual effect � good and evil.

> > >

> > > 10. A method for casting horoscopes of twins, triplets, etc.

has

> > been

> > > described in the Lal Kitab. This method provides distinct

> horoscope

> > for

> > > each child. The later born of the twins is considered older.

> > >

> > > 11. For timing of events, Lal Kitab provides a methodology that

> goes

> > > into as much detail as hours, minutes and seconds. Again, this

> > facility

> > > neither requires complex calculations, nor the use of an

almanac.

> > >

> > > 12. Malefic effect of planets can be of two types: Graha Phal

> and

> > Rashi

> > > Phal. An Upaya can be utilized to guard against the Rashi Phal

> > effect.

> > > Graha Phal can not be altered by ordinary mortal beings. It is

> the

> > > Rashi Phal effect that can be modified using the upayas.

> > >

> > > 13. Lal Kitab system neither prescribes nor prohibits fasts.

> > >

> > > 14. Lal Kitab is neither a Tantrik book nor does it have

anything

> > to do

> > > with witchcraft. The whole idea behind the upayas is to take

> > advantage

> > > of the " doubtful " position of certain planets and minimize their

> > > evil effects. Ordinary mortal beings cannot completely

eliminate

> the

> > > evil effect of a planet; however the evil effect can,

generally,

> be

> > > reduced. The Lal Kitab system does not claim to be " God's

> > > promise "

> > > " Duniyaavi hisaab kitabb hai, koi daawaa-e-khudaai nahin "

> > >

> > > 15. Lal Kitab system can not be used to harm others; there is no

> > > provision in it to do that. This system attempts to defend one

> > against

> > > evil planetary effects.

> > >

> > > 16. Lal Kitab system is secular in nature. In order to perform

an

> > upaya,

> > > one can go to one's religious place of choice, which could be a

> > > temple, a gurudwara or, a mosque or church. If one feels that

one

> > cannot

> > > perform an upaya in one of these religious places, or in case

one

> > is an

> > > atheist, the upayas can be performed at an intersection where

two

> > roads

> > > intersect at a right angle.

> > >

> > > 17. All the upayas are to be performed between dawn and dusk.

> There

> > are

> > > only two or three exceptions and those are explicitly mentioned

> in

> > the

> > > Lal Kitab. There is absolutely no requirement to perform

> particular

> > > upayas on particular days (unless specifically mentioned.)

These

> > upayas

> > > can be performed by one's blood relatives or spouse (male or

> > > female.) Any variation of this rule would be a figment of one's

> > > imagination and against the principles of this system.

> > >

> > > 18. As stated before, this system does not consider itself

> superior

> > to

> > > other prevalent systems of astrology.

> > >

> > > 19. The Lal Kitab should be utilized to help others:

> > >

> > > Kar Bhalaa hoga bhalaa, Jab tak naa ho, bhalay ka buraa

> > >

> > > 20. And finally, Pandit Roop Chand Ji blessed all the readers

and

> > > practitioners of the Lal Kitab system:

> > >

> > > Khush Raho Aabaad Duniya, Maal-o-zar Badhtey raho,

> > > Madad Maalik apni dega, Neki khud kartey chalo

> > >

> > > May you all be happy and prosperous. Possess material

> > goods; God

> > > will help you if you will help others (through the knowledge

> > contained

> > > in these books.)

> > >

> > > *** *****

> > > AN INTERVIEW WITH PT. ROOP CHAND JOSHI � December 1982.

> > >

> > > I had the distinct privilege of meeting Pt. Roop Chand Joshi ,

> many

> > > times. I live in the United States and although Panditji never

> > cared to

> > > know my name, yet he was always very kind to me. When I met

him

> > for the

> > > last time on November 14, 1982, he looked frail and yet he had

> > > brightness in his eyes, and a very energetic and charismatic

> look.

> > After

> > > he read a couple of horoscopes for me (I was the last one that

> > morning;

> > > Pt. Som Dutt had already shut the entrance door to indicate that

> > > Panditji was not available for the day.) I was taking leave of

> him,

> > I

> > > wished him well and told him that we'd be meeting again in

another

> > > year or so. That is when he declared that it was our last

meeting.

> > > " I am not going to be around for the next meeting. It is time

for

> me

> > > to depart. Do you wish to ask me anything? " I asked Panditji

> these

> > > questions and took very rough notes:

> > >

> > > 1. How did this knowledge come to you? People have all sorts of

> > stories

> > > about it?

> > > As a youngster, I had intuition and was able to read palms and

> > faces.

> > > Lots of times, for no rhyme or reason, I would say something

and

> it

> > > would come out to be true. Yet, I was not serious about it. I

was

> > more

> > > concerned about my work ands my studies. It was that fateful

> night;

> > I

> > > had come to Pharwala on my first annual leave for two months.

The

> > very

> > > first night, this " taaqat " (Power) appeared to me in my dream

> > > and told me that I was to be taught this " ilm " (knowledge) The

> > > next morning, something made me pick up a pencil and a notebook

> and

> > my

> > > fingers started writing what was discussed the night before. I

> > tried to

> > > resist it, but it was of no avail. All during my leave,

everyday

> > this

> > > " exercise " continued. I would be almost in a semi-conscious

> > > state. It was scary. And, I could not take my attention off

> this. I

> > > knew that I had been had (hearty laugh). And was I ever? Till

> this

> > day,

> > > I am 84 years old now, this ilm has been haunting me if you

want

> to

> > call

> > > it that way. I can't go anywhere, people recognize me and ask

me

> to

> > > read their horoscope. In a way, I feel this has been a big

> > > " zahmat " (nastiness) in my life but on the other hand, I am glad

> > > that He chose me to help the fellow beings. Going back to the

> > topic. I

> > > was instructed to read and re-read the material and start

> > practicing it

> > > as soon as possible. Once I mastered the basics, my intuition

> would

> > > automatically open newer avenues. I marvel at all this.

Although,

> I

> > > toiled like a slave all my life, had next to nothing by way of

> > family

> > > life, yet I am glad that I was able to bring forth this

> knowledge.

> > It

> > > is so fascinating; I marvel at it.

> > >

> > > 2. Why did you not give your name as the author of the books?

> > >

> > > What difference does it make to have Pt. Roop Chand's name on

> these

> > > books? Without my name being used on the book, I am quite well

> > known.

> > > Can you imagine how it would multiply the lines outside my

house

> if

> > > people knew who the author is? Many people in my village

> (Farwala)

> > have

> > > started practicing Lal Kitab astrology because many outsiders

do

> not

> > > know who the author is. It has been so difficult for my family

> with

> > a

> > > big " hujoom " (crowd) always outside my house. My family never

> > > enjoyed any privacy ever. To salvage whatever little I can, I

shun

> > > publicity; of course, I cannot shut my doors. Also, since I

was

> in

> > > Defence organization working for the British India government,

it

> > would

> > > have been hard to get permission to publish anything. My

> officers,

> > both

> > > British as well as Indians knew what I was doing � in fact,

> they

> > all

> > > used to consult me, yet I decided not to ask for permission to

> > publish

> > > under my name. For the 1952 edition, I could have given my name

> as

> > the

> > > author because I took early retirement and was under no

> governmental

> > > obligation. To stay anonymous was a decision I had made early

in

> > life

> > > and I stuck with it all my life. Those who know me, know who I

> am.

> > Those

> > > who don't know me, should be least of my concern.

> > >

> > > 3. Why were these books written in Urdu?

> > >

> > > In the late 30s, Urdu was the common man's language. I wrote

> with

> > > " Aam Public " in mind. Our traditional astrological books are in

> > > Sanskrit or Sankritised Hindi. I did not want this ilm to

become a

> > > property of the select few � Lal Kitab's purpose is to make

> > > astrology easy and accessible to general populace and what

better

> > way

> > > than to write in a language that everyone understood (at that

> > time.) I

> > > even used prevalent Punjabi phrases wherever relevant. Here and

> > there, I

> > > used Farsi or Arabic words for emphasizing a point just as

English

> > > authors use French or Latin words and phrases. Also, I used

Farsi

> > for

> > > things, which may not sound decent in our conversational

> language.

> > For

> > > example, to describe certain body parts or diseases, I used

Farsi

> or

> > > Arabic words.

> > >

> > > 4. How come you never charge for your services?

> > >

> > > My purpose is to help the " aam duniyaavi saathi " (my fellow

> > > human beings.) He has been kind to me in that He provided me

with

> > enough

> > > means to raise my family reasonably comfortably. I am

financially

> > not a

> > > rich person but I have enough to get by. My purpose has been to

> help

> > > people to the best of my ability. By not charging, I retain my

> > > independence. If I don't want to see someone's horoscope, I am

> > > at liberty to do so. I do not go to people's house to read their

> > > horoscopes, regardless of how powerful or rich they may be.

Rajas

> > and

> > > Generals have come into my Baithak as have the Chief Ministers

> and

> > other

> > > high placed officials. I have never asked anyone for a favour,

> One

> > of

> > > the ministers got our village connected to the main road so

that

> > people

> > > can get here without much difficulty. (The road led right to

> > > Panditji's house in Farwala.) The rest of the village has

> benefited

> > > as a result. Last year, I went for a checkup at All India

> Institute

> > of

> > > Medical Sciences in Delhi. Some of its senior doctors have come

> to

> > me in

> > > the past. You should have seen how they were all surrounding

me.

> > People

> > > were trying to figure out as to who this V.I.P. is. I told my

> son

> > (Pt.

> > > Som Dutt) " You always ask me what have I earned in my life? Can

> you

> > > count the number of Doctors trying to look after me? " They were

> all

> > > too eager to help me. At times, I go to the nearby town of

> Phillaur

> > > (where Punjab Police training academy is located.) All the

Police

> > higher

> > > ups get out of their cars and with folded hands, show me their

> > respect.

> > > Why do they do so?

> > >

> > > regards,

> > > Lalit Mishra,

> > > www.Vedicastrologyandhealing

> > > <http://www.Vedicastrologyandhealing>

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Remove

 

 

: rohini_ranjan: Tue, 4

Dec 2007 01:01:12 +0000 Re: Lal Kitab : The Red Book of Astrology -

3

 

 

 

 

, " rpsingh2710 " <rpsingh2710

wrote:>...> Myths and the reality of the Lal Kitab> > > At the outset I must

make it very clear that I am neither> enamored by the book nor wish to belittle

it. My interest > in astrology is entirely academic and my approach > therefore

very objective and detached .> > Q 4 . What are the advantages of the Lal Kitab

system ?> > This is the only system of astrology which provides ‘samadhan’

in the> form of easy to do simple remedies. These remedies have been found > to

be quite effective. In the vedic system the remedies invariably > are >

jaap,daan havan, elaborate poojas etc, where as the remedies of the> Lal Kitab

are based on the folk remedies. These folk remedies are > based on the

collective folk wisdom going back to centuries.> ...Dear Posters,While my 2

cents may not make any sense to you or even be worthy of your attention, perhaps

the best way to serve lal kitaab or remedial jyotish and its relevance and

validity etc should begin with some organized documentation of the success

stories!Mind you, once in a while it has been done on internet but very few of

these accounts have been met with or characterized by scrutiny and often turn

out to be sermons to the converted!People in a large scale sense are logical. It

may take generations or lot of effort but the destiny of Human Experience is to

see patterns in Chaos! To see God in Maya!!Astrology and remedial astrology is a

beautiful venue to test that concept.But someone devoted and really passionate

would have to put the time and organize available facts, and do so critically

and perhaps a group effort would be better because it will bring together people

of different background, education and capabilities and the product will be more

satisfying. As opposed to helter-skelter which never addresses chaos very

effectively. Like the Caterpillar in Alice in Wonderland said: My dear, begin at

the beginning and work your way to the end! " Alice in Wonderland is not a silly

story or a fairy tale! Nor is Jyotish or in broader sense Astrology!Rohiniranjan

 

 

 

 

 

 

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