Guest guest Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 Dear Sunil ji, Thanks for the knowledge shared. Love and regards,Sreenadh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 dear sreenadh ji it is ur hard work and effort and persuation which made possible for me to write this kind of article s but still i am worried abt u ."awe and shock " method ( marma technic-attacking nervous system by pointing/pressing a finger on certain points used by kerala martial artists ) u may hav to face frm ur young sweet wife for devoting full time into unromantic astrological writing so all i can advise u is take maximum care rgrds sunil nair , "Sreenadh" <sreesog wrote:>> Dear Sunil ji,> Thanks for the knowledge shared.> Love and regards,> Sreenadh> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 Sear Shri Sunil Nair ji, Ha Ha. Bhai poorane khiladi se poochiye na tajurbe ki baat. Aap log toh abhi jawaan ho, parantu main toh abhi kadam rakha hoon jawaani mein, aur tajurba bahut hai. The more one stays away from his Love, the more he receives Love. Familiarity breeds contempt. So let him be busy, for the moment his Love finds him unbusy, she would make him cosy for fear of making him loose again to astro writing. So the busier one gets the merrier results it yields. Bhai Lage raho. But do not become a saint while deeply doing all this astrology etc. All colours have to be used in Life and all games have to be played and all emotions to be felt. regards, Bhaskar. , " sunil nair " <astro_tellerkerala wrote: > > > > > dear sreenadh ji > > it is ur hard work and effort and persuation which made possible for > me to write this kind of article s > > but still i am worried abt u . " awe and shock " method ( marma > technic-attacking nervous system by pointing/pressing a finger on > certain points used by kerala martial artists ) u may hav to face frm > ur young sweet wife for devoting full time into unromantic astrological > writing > > so all i can advise u is take maximum care [] > > > > rgrds sunil nair > > > , " Sreenadh " > sreesog@ wrote: > > > > Dear Sunil ji, > > Thanks for the knowledge shared. > > Love and regards, > > Sreenadh > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 dear respected bhaskar ji ha ha thanks for ur advice. esp this one All colours have to be used in Life and all games have tobe played and all emotions to be felt. it is hard truth of life too. with regrds and thanks sunil nair , "Bhaskar" <bhaskar_jyotish wrote:>> > Sear Shri Sunil Nair ji,> > Ha Ha.> > Bhai poorane khiladi se poochiye na tajurbe ki baat. Aap log toh abhi> jawaan ho, parantu main toh abhi kadam rakha hoon jawaani mein, aur> tajurba bahut hai.> > The more one stays away from his Love, the more he receives Love.> > Familiarity breeds contempt.> > So let him be busy, for the moment his Love finds him unbusy, she would> make him cosy for fear of making him loose again to astro writing. So> the busier one gets the merrier results it yields.> > Bhai Lage raho. But do not become a saint while deeply doing all this> astrology etc. All colours have to be used in Life and all games have to> be played and all emotions to be felt.> > regards,> > Bhaskar.> > > > > > > > > , "sunil nair"> astro_tellerkerala@ wrote:> >> >> >> >> > dear sreenadh ji> >> > it is ur hard work and effort and persuation which made possible for> > me to write this kind of article s> >> > but still i am worried abt u ."awe and shock " method ( marma> > technic-attacking nervous system by pointing/pressing a finger on> > certain points used by kerala martial artists ) u may hav to face frm> > ur young sweet wife for devoting full time into unromantic> astrological> > writing> >> > so all i can advise u is take maximum care []> >> >> >> > rgrds sunil nair> >> >> > , "Sreenadh"> > sreesog@ wrote:> > >> > > Dear Sunil ji,> > > Thanks for the knowledge shared.> > > Love and regards,> > > Sreenadh> > >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2009 Report Share Posted April 26, 2009 dear shri sunil nair, thanks for an excellent and simple presentation of calendars of ancient india. thanks, regards, k.gopu--- On Sat, 4/25/09, sunil nair <astro_tellerkerala wrote: sunil nair <astro_tellerkerala Various calendars of ancient India Date: Saturday, April 25, 2009, 9:21 PM Various calendars of ancient India Written by Sunil Nair Calendar is a system of organizing days for social, religious, commercial, or administrative purposes. This is done by giving names to periods of time – typically for days, weeks, months, and years. The name given to each day is known as a date. Periods in a calendar (such as years and months) are usually, though not necessarily, is synchronized with the cycles of some astronomical phenomenon, such as the cycle of Sun or Moon. Many civilizations and societies have devised a calendar, usually derived from other calendars on which they model their systems, suited to their particular needs. Cycles can be synchronized with periodic phenomena: Period appearance in the same place in the sky. This is usually referred to by the name – Sidereal. This sidereal re-occurrence could be either in lunar style or in solar style. Sidereal Lunar: A sidereal lunar calendar is synchronized to the motion of the Moon against the stellar background. We may expect unique names for each month in such lunar calendars. But even in India, unique names for Lunar months are not known. Lunar days are known by a special name sequence in India, such as – Nakshatra : Moon's Longitude/27 27 day cycle, since Moon takes 27 and 1/3 days complete a rotation. Asvini, Bharani etc are day names used in this system. Since the reckoning of the movement of Moon is pegged to the fixed stellar background in this case, such lunar calendars is considered as part Sidereal system. Sidereal Solar: A sidereal solar calendar is synchronized to the motion of the Sun against the stellar background. A Sidereal Solar calendar dates, indicate the position of the earth on its revolution around the sun (or equivalently the apparent position of the sun moving on the celestial sphere) – or in other words the position of the Sun in ecliptic. If the position of the earth is reckoned with respect to the fixed stars, then the dates indicate the zodiacal constellation near which the sun can be found. Usually in all such sidereal solar calendars, unique names for each month would be present. The Indian names used for such sidereal months are Mesha, Vrishabha etc. Like the sidereal solar months, sidereal Nakshatra position of Sun is also given importance by ancient civilizations. For example - Njattu vela (Njayar Nila, Sun's position in a Nakshatra): Sun's Longitude/27 A year is composed on 27 Njattu Velas (each Njattu vela corresponding to a Nakshatra and known by the Nakshatra name). One Njattu vela period is usually around 13.52 solar days or better till Sun's position in Nakshatra areas spanning 13 deg. 20 min each. Sidereal calendar is well known and in extensive use in India from Agamic and Vedic past onwards, and is known to have been in use before the period of Hipparchus in ancient Greek as well. Tropical solar calendar: If the position of the earth (or the sun) is reckoned with respect to the equinox, then the dates indicate the season (and so are synchronized to the declination of the sun). Such a calendar is called a tropical solar calendar. That means, a tropical solar calendar is based on perceived seasonal changes synchronized to the apparent motion of the Sun. Usually in all such solar calendars unique names for each month, and day would be present. (Solar months without month names – is usually near to nil). Solar months were named Isha, Urja, Madhu, Madhava, Tapa, Tapasya etc in India. Solar calendars are usually seasonal in nature, and so the year beginnings are clubbed to the equinoxes and solstices. Solar days are known by a special name sequence originated in India, now popular throughout the world such as – Vara : Sunday, Monday, Tuesday etc 7 day cycle, since Earth – represented by Sun moving through ecliptic - takes more than 364 days – actually 365.2425 days – to complete on cycle. Tropical lunar calendar: There is nothing called a tropical lunar calendar, since the seasons are NOT in any way connected to Moon. As every one knows, a lunar calendar is a calendar based on the movement of Moon alone. But when this movement is treated against the fixed sidereal background it is called `Sidereal Lunar calendar' (mentioned above) and not simply lunar calendar. When this movement is treated in connection with the relative position of Sun, (i.e. lunar phases based calendar) then it is no more simply a lunar calendar, but a `Luni-solar calendar' since Sun is also considered. Therefore lunar phases based calendar is discussed under the luni-solar section. A luni-solar calendar is based on a combination of both solar and lunar reckonings. The lunar phases based calendar should be treated as a luni-solar calendar and not as simply lunar alone. A calendar that tries to adjust its luni solar months with pure solar months and year also should be treated as a luni-solar calendar itself. Thus a luni-solar calendar could be of two type – A lunar phases based calendar A calendar that tries to adjust its luni solar months with pure solar months or with solar tropical year. Usually in all such luni-solar calendars unique names for each month would be present. In India the luni-solar months are known by the names such as Chaitra, Vaisakha etc. Luni-solar months may or may not be seasonal in nature. Actually in case of luni-solar months a special effort of `adjusting the year' with solar tropical year, is required to make the luni-solar year seasonal (since by nature luni-solar months are more connected to lunar phases and not with solar seasons). This is how the concept of `Adimasa (extra month) comes into play. In Luni-solar calendars months of moon are fitted in with sidereal or tropical solar year and seasons. And thus the concept of adhi masa (extra month) and khaya masa (deducted month) etc comes into play. These `adjustments' help us to connect lunar months corrected to Sun's movement and seasons. Hence we cannot say no more that `Lunar phases based year is perfectly lunar. Perfect lunar months or year could be seen only in Islam (actually not even in Islam) as they consider only visible phenomena. Luni-solar day reckoning is another unique concept associated with this type of calendars. Luni-solar days are knows by two name sequences in India such as - Tithi : (Moon's longitude – Sun's longitude) / 30 30 day cycle, since the Moon takes 29 and 1/5 days to complete its waxing and waning phases. The 30 days are divided into two phases such as Sukla paksha (waxing phase) and Krishna paksha (waning phase) having 15 days each. Each day is named such as Prathama (1nd), Dwiteeeya (2nd), Triteeya (3rd) etc upto 15th. The 15th day is termed Paurnami (Full Moon) or Amavasi (No Moon or New Moon) as per Indian system. Nityayoga : (Moon's longitude – Sun's longitude) / 27 27 day cycle, since Moon takes 27 and 1/3 days complete a rotation. The 27 days are named Vishkambha etc. There are some other calendars that appear to be synchronized to the motion of Venus, Jupiter, Saturn, some special stars such as Sirius etc. Venus: Synchronization to Venus appears to occur primarily in civilizations near the Equator. As far as I know - It is not used by Indians; but Mayans and Egyptians had Venus based calendar. Jupiter: Indians had a Jupiter based calendar – in which 12 years makes a cycle; but no specific year, month or day naming convention is known to have been in use with this system. Saturn: As far as I know - no Saturn only calendar system was known to have been in use in India. Jupiter-Saturn: A Jupiter-Saturn based year reckoning system in which a 60 year cycle with unique names for each year provides another calendar which was very popular in India. In this system also even though unique names such as Prabhava, Vibhava etc is available for years, no unique name for months, day etc is available. Sirius etc: Such stellar based calendars are known to have been in use by some ancient civilizations such as Egypt. Many scholars tried to associate such phenomenon with Indian calendars and festivals as well. In India, even such calendars are synchronized with the Sidereal stellar (Rasi or Nakshatra) background as in the case of Jupiterian year and calendar. Or in case of Panchavarsheeya yuga system mentioned in Vedanga Jyotisha. Arithmetic and astronomical calendars: Most of the calendars used by ancient civilization needs arithmetic and same time based on astronomical phenomenon with a definite set of rules, this approach gives high degree of perfection. Examples of such calendars would be the long count or short count dates used by Mayans or the Ahargana system (based on Kali era) used by ancient Indians. The advantage of such calendars is the ease of calculating when a particular date occurs. The disadvantage is imperfect accuracy over a long period of time. Furthermore, even if the calendar is very accurate, its accuracy diminishes slowly over time, owing to changes in Earth's rotation. This limits the lifetime of an accurate arithmetic calendar to a few thousand years. After then, the rules would need to be modified from observations made since the invention of the calendar. Actually all this happens as said by great astronomical treatise Surya Sidhanta, which states – "time is limitless and formless and we are trying to limit the time to some form for taking a calculation at a given moment required by us". So whether the approach is scientific, arithmetic, astronomical or seasonal - it is bound to cause errors in long run, if not corrected in due course and then it is festival for those who see fault in everything. The primary practical use of a calendar is to identify days: to be informed about and/or to agree on a future event and to record an event that has happened. Days may be significant for civil, religious or social reasons. For example, a calendar provides a way to determine which days are religious or civil holidays, which days mark the beginning and end of business accounting periods, and which days have legal significance, such as the day taxes are due or a contract expires. Also a calendar may, by identifying a day, provide other useful information about the day such as its season. Calendars are also used to help people manage their personal schedules, time and activities, particularly when individuals have numerous work, school, and family commitments. People frequently use multiple systems, and may keep both a business and family calendar to help prevent them from over committing their time. Calendars are also used as part of a complete timekeeping system: date and time of day together specify a moment in time. Agricultural calendar is developed over 1000s of year observation and experience of farming communities and I would boldly say that agriculture is the mother of all calendars. Njattu vela calendars (still used in state of Kerala) is best example and this author got testimony from many farmers that it works marvelously. Some more info Now I will go through various calendar concepts used by ancients and its uses in day to day life without going much detail about its uses. Saura year, Savana year both are solar based calendars (Or better, Saura year is tropical solar year, and Savana year is Sidereal solar year) Chaandra year and Naaksatra year both are moon based calendars. (Or better, Chandra year is luni-solar calendar and Naakshatra year is sidereal lunar year) Barhaspathya Year: Calendar based on rotation of Jupiter. The planet guru in one sign (Rasi: sidereal 30 degree area) is considered as a year. This is used in religious functions of mass participation or gather of scholars etc [Ancient Kerala festival Maha-Magha or mamangam is an example. This festival later turned into a repeating war between various rulers for supremacy as chakravarhty (king of kings )] It is said that the Aryabhata, a Kerala Jain, presented his system of Parahita Sidhantha in presence of such a crowd of scholars in one such Maha-Makha and got it accepted. The same is true with Parameshwara Acharya who developed Drigganita Sidhanta later. There is reference about Saptarshi calendars in various Puranas and treatises. But scholars are divided over its application. It is used to record major events after happening or recording dynasties and coronation or uprising of new kingdoms. The Saptarshi Calendar is based on movements of stars called Saptarshis (7 sages) or Sapta-Rkshas (7 stars). Those Saptarshi are named: 1. Visvamitra: Dubhe (Dubb, Ak): Bear, Alpha Ursæ Majoris. 2. Jamadagni Merak (Mirak): Loins, Beta Ursæ Majoris. 3. Bharadvaja Phad (Phecda; Phekda; Phegda; Phekha; Phacd): Thigh, Gamma Ursæ Majoris. 4. Gautama Megrez (Kaffa): Insertion-point (of the bear's tail), Delta Ursæ Majoris. 5. Atri Alioth (Aliath): Goat, Epsilon Ursæ Majoris. 6. Vasistha Mizar (Mizat; Mirza): Wrapping (Loincloth), Zeta Ursæ Majoris. 7. Kasyapa Alkaid (Benetnash, Benetnasch, Elkeid): Chief Daughter of the Bier, Eta Ursæ Majoris. Saptarshi- or The Seven Great Sages gets its name in the Indian Mythology after the sages mentioned above. These sages are supposed to be revolving around Dhruva, the Pole Star. This means that Saptarshis are positioned near to the pole star in the North. They move from east to west around pole star in clockwise direction. Sage Vriddha Garga renounced Rishi and astronomer refers to the stay of Sapta Rishis in 67th yr at the time of transition of Dwarapara - Kaliyugas. There are various references about various events in several Sapta Rishi eras. Soura varsha (tropical solar year) = 365.2425 solar days Savana year (Sidereal year) = 360 degree = 365.25 solar days Naakshtra year (Sidereal lunar year) = 324 Nakshtra days (27 x 12 = 324) Chaandra year (luni-solar year) = 354 solar days (29.5 x 12 = 254) = 360 Tithi Briahspathy year (Jupiterian year) = 361 solar days What ever be the year reckoning system we may use - 1/12th of an year is taken as one month and 1/30th is taken as a day. It is clear that - for ascertaining all this knowledge the abstract concept of zodiac and knowledge of degrees and signs are required. Savana Dina is calculated from Sunrise to Sunrise which is approximately 60 ghaties. (24 hours). Saura Masa (solar month) is suns movement in one Sign or Masa (30 degree span in zodiac), i.e. time taken for Sun's entry and exist. Chandra Dina is based on Tithi and month is from one Amavasya to another Amavasya. There was also a system of calculating month from one Paurnami to another Paurnami. Luni -solar calendar is used for all kinds of religious festivals. Vrata (fasting), Seemantham (a special ceremony when a lady is pregnant), pumsavanam (another ceremony when a lady is pregnant. It is said that during this ceremony the use of some special Ayurvedic herbs can even change the sex of foetus especially for getting male kids. Now the technique is lost with time and simple ceremony is conducted). All these festivals are supposed to do following Savana calendar. Choulam (Cutting hair for the first time for the baby), Upanayanam (Initiation) , rajyabhisekham (crowning of king; coronation), marriages, karnadedham, sastra bandhanam (first acceptance of sword from a guru or a king), go-danam (donating cow to others), wearing of new ornaments or dresses etc are mainly based on Solar calendar and Nakshatra calendar. Coming sidereal Nakshatra considerations - For go-danam (donating cow) janma nakshtra is avoided; for first union of couples (if they are taking a muhurta) Janma nakshtra of both is avoided; for marriage, the Nakshatra of bride groom should be avoided and ultimate importance is given to brides star and further considerations; for anna-prasha (first food giving ceremony for the baby) and treating of diseases or giving medicines etc moon is important and its power is also considered along with other factors; for all kind of religious celebrations luni - solar calendar is used as months considered are usually luni-solar [As contributing factors, luni-solar months such as Chaitra, Vaisakha etc or sidereal solar such as Mesha, Vrishabha etc and Nakshtras which themselves are sidereal in nature, Tithi which is luni-solar in nature are all considered] Jupiterian calendars are used for festivals which happen after certain number of years especially which repeats after every 12 yrs (one Vyazhavatta, 1 Jupiterian period). Ancient Kerala festival of scholars known as Maha-magha (Jupiter in Leo in Magha Nakshatra) could be the primary example. Kumbha mela and maha kumbha melas is another example. The Kumbha-mela at the period of Harsha vardhana is recorded by Chinese traveler hu-ang –tsang. In some temples (especially maha kshetras, i.e. big temples) some festivals or some remedial measures such as Deva prasna (temple Prasna) is conducted once in every 12 yrs unless some serious emergency happens. Deva pratishta (Installation of idols of deities) and agrayanam, Upanayanam (initiation) , go-danam (donating cow), kalasam (a special temple tantric act done to increase the power of deity) or rajya bishekham (crowning of king) etc are said to b when sun is in Uttarayana. Except Deva Pratishta (Installation of idols of deities), all the above activities can be usually done only on bright half of moon in case of emergency . All good events including things related to deities (daiva karyas) are done in Uttarayana and Sukla paksha. Things related to forefathers (Pitru karyas) are conducted in Dakhsinayana and Krishna paksha (black half of moon phase). I hope this elaboration will serve as a base to elaborate your understanding about the various calendars in use in ancient India, their purpose, use and importance – both from the time keeper's (Panchangakaras) perspective and also from the astrological perspective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2009 Report Share Posted April 26, 2009 Dear K Gopu, Instead of having many types of calenders which are basically out of alignment with its own principles of seasonal value, it is better to have only a few ones with correct representation of its own basic principles.Do I sound nasty? Excuse me,but sometimes bitter truths have also to be spoken.thank you, sincerely ours, Hari Malla K Gopu <kgopu_24 Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 3:17:32 PMRe: Various calendars of ancient India dear shri sunil nair, thanks for an excellent and simple presentation of calendars of ancient india. thanks, regards, k.gopu--- On Sat, 4/25/09, sunil nair <astro_tellerkerala@ .co. in> wrote: sunil nair <astro_tellerkerala@ .co. in>[ancient_indian_ astrology] Various calendars of ancient Indiaancient_indian_ astrologySaturday, April 25, 2009, 9:21 PM Various calendars of ancient India Written by Sunil Nair Calendar is a system of organizing days for social, religious, commercial, or administrative purposes. This is done by giving names to periods of time – typically for days, weeks, months, and years. The name given to each day is known as a date. Periods in a calendar (such as years and months) are usually, though not necessarily, is synchronized with the cycles of some astronomical phenomenon, such as the cycle of Sun or Moon. Many civilizations and societies have devised a calendar, usually derived from other calendars on which they model their systems, suited to their particular needs. Cycles can be synchronized with periodic phenomena: Period appearance in the same place in the sky. This is usually referred to by the name – Sidereal. This sidereal re-occurrence could be either in lunar style or in solar style. Sidereal Lunar: A sidereal lunar calendar is synchronized to the motion of the Moon against the stellar background. We may expect unique names for each month in such lunar calendars. But even in India, unique names for Lunar months are not known. Lunar days are known by a special name sequence in India, such as – Nakshatra : Moon's Longitude/27 27 day cycle, since Moon takes 27 and 1/3 days complete a rotation. Asvini, Bharani etc are day names used in this system. Since the reckoning of the movement of Moon is pegged to the fixed stellar background in this case, such lunar calendars is considered as part Sidereal system. Sidereal Solar: A sidereal solar calendar is synchronized to the motion of the Sun against the stellar background. A Sidereal Solar calendar dates, indicate the position of the earth on its revolution around the sun (or equivalently the apparent position of the sun moving on the celestial sphere) – or in other words the position of the Sun in ecliptic. If the position of the earth is reckoned with respect to the fixed stars, then the dates indicate the zodiacal constellation near which the sun can be found. Usually in all such sidereal solar calendars, unique names for each month would be present. The Indian names used for such sidereal months are Mesha, Vrishabha etc. Like the sidereal solar months, sidereal Nakshatra position of Sun is also given importance by ancient civilizations. For example - Njattu vela (Njayar Nila, Sun's position in a Nakshatra): Sun's Longitude/27 A year is composed on 27 Njattu Velas (each Njattu vela corresponding to a Nakshatra and known by the Nakshatra name). One Njattu vela period is usually around 13.52 solar days or better till Sun's position in Nakshatra areas spanning 13 deg. 20 min each. Sidereal calendar is well known and in extensive use in India from Agamic and Vedic past onwards, and is known to have been in use before the period of Hipparchus in ancient Greek as well. Tropical solar calendar: If the position of the earth (or the sun) is reckoned with respect to the equinox, then the dates indicate the season (and so are synchronized to the declination of the sun). Such a calendar is called a tropical solar calendar. That means, a tropical solar calendar is based on perceived seasonal changes synchronized to the apparent motion of the Sun. Usually in all such solar calendars unique names for each month, and day would be present. (Solar months without month names – is usually near to nil). Solar months were named Isha, Urja, Madhu, Madhava, Tapa, Tapasya etc in India. Solar calendars are usually seasonal in nature, and so the year beginnings are clubbed to the equinoxes and solstices. Solar days are known by a special name sequence originated in India, now popular throughout the world such as – Vara : Sunday, Monday, Tuesday etc 7 day cycle, since Earth – represented by Sun moving through ecliptic - takes more than 364 days – actually 365.2425 days – to complete on cycle. Tropical lunar calendar: There is nothing called a tropical lunar calendar, since the seasons are NOT in any way connected to Moon. As every one knows, a lunar calendar is a calendar based on the movement of Moon alone. But when this movement is treated against the fixed sidereal background it is called `Sidereal Lunar calendar' (mentioned above) and not simply lunar calendar. When this movement is treated in connection with the relative position of Sun, (i.e. lunar phases based calendar) then it is no more simply a lunar calendar, but a `Luni-solar calendar' since Sun is also considered. Therefore lunar phases based calendar is discussed under the luni-solar section. A luni-solar calendar is based on a combination of both solar and lunar reckonings. The lunar phases based calendar should be treated as a luni-solar calendar and not as simply lunar alone. A calendar that tries to adjust its luni solar months with pure solar months and year also should be treated as a luni-solar calendar itself. Thus a luni-solar calendar could be of two type – A lunar phases based calendar A calendar that tries to adjust its luni solar months with pure solar months or with solar tropical year. Usually in all such luni-solar calendars unique names for each month would be present. In India the luni-solar months are known by the names such as Chaitra, Vaisakha etc. Luni-solar months may or may not be seasonal in nature. Actually in case of luni-solar months a special effort of `adjusting the year' with solar tropical year, is required to make the luni-solar year seasonal (since by nature luni-solar months are more connected to lunar phases and not with solar seasons). This is how the concept of `Adimasa (extra month) comes into play. In Luni-solar calendars months of moon are fitted in with sidereal or tropical solar year and seasons. And thus the concept of adhi masa (extra month) and khaya masa (deducted month) etc comes into play. These `adjustments' help us to connect lunar months corrected to Sun's movement and seasons. Hence we cannot say no more that `Lunar phases based year is perfectly lunar. Perfect lunar months or year could be seen only in Islam (actually not even in Islam) as they consider only visible phenomena. Luni-solar day reckoning is another unique concept associated with this type of calendars. Luni-solar days are knows by two name sequences in India such as - Tithi : (Moon's longitude – Sun's longitude) / 30 30 day cycle, since the Moon takes 29 and 1/5 days to complete its waxing and waning phases. The 30 days are divided into two phases such as Sukla paksha (waxing phase) and Krishna paksha (waning phase) having 15 days each. Each day is named such as Prathama (1nd), Dwiteeeya (2nd), Triteeya (3rd) etc upto 15th.. The 15th day is termed Paurnami (Full Moon) or Amavasi (No Moon or New Moon) as per Indian system. Nityayoga : (Moon's longitude – Sun's longitude) / 27 27 day cycle, since Moon takes 27 and 1/3 days complete a rotation. The 27 days are named Vishkambha etc. There are some other calendars that appear to be synchronized to the motion of Venus, Jupiter, Saturn, some special stars such as Sirius etc. Venus: Synchronization to Venus appears to occur primarily in civilizations near the Equator. As far as I know - It is not used by Indians; but Mayans and Egyptians had Venus based calendar. Jupiter: Indians had a Jupiter based calendar – in which 12 years makes a cycle; but no specific year, month or day naming convention is known to have been in use with this system. Saturn: As far as I know - no Saturn only calendar system was known to have been in use in India. Jupiter-Saturn: A Jupiter-Saturn based year reckoning system in which a 60 year cycle with unique names for each year provides another calendar which was very popular in India. In this system also even though unique names such as Prabhava, Vibhava etc is available for years, no unique name for months, day etc is available. Sirius etc: Such stellar based calendars are known to have been in use by some ancient civilizations such as Egypt. Many scholars tried to associate such phenomenon with Indian calendars and festivals as well. In India, even such calendars are synchronized with the Sidereal stellar (Rasi or Nakshatra) background as in the case of Jupiterian year and calendar. Or in case of Panchavarsheeya yuga system mentioned in Vedanga Jyotisha. Arithmetic and astronomical calendars: Most of the calendars used by ancient civilization needs arithmetic and same time based on astronomical phenomenon with a definite set of rules, this approach gives high degree of perfection. Examples of such calendars would be the long count or short count dates used by Mayans or the Ahargana system (based on Kali era) used by ancient Indians. The advantage of such calendars is the ease of calculating when a particular date occurs. The disadvantage is imperfect accuracy over a long period of time. Furthermore, even if the calendar is very accurate, its accuracy diminishes slowly over time, owing to changes in Earth's rotation. This limits the lifetime of an accurate arithmetic calendar to a few thousand years. After then, the rules would need to be modified from observations made since the invention of the calendar. Actually all this happens as said by great astronomical treatise Surya Sidhanta, which states – "time is limitless and formless and we are trying to limit the time to some form for taking a calculation at a given moment required by us". So whether the approach is scientific, arithmetic, astronomical or seasonal - it is bound to cause errors in long run, if not corrected in due course and then it is festival for those who see fault in everything. The primary practical use of a calendar is to identify days: to be informed about and/or to agree on a future event and to record an event that has happened. Days may be significant for civil, religious or social reasons. For example, a calendar provides a way to determine which days are religious or civil holidays, which days mark the beginning and end of business accounting periods, and which days have legal significance, such as the day taxes are due or a contract expires. Also a calendar may, by identifying a day, provide other useful information about the day such as its season. Calendars are also used to help people manage their personal schedules, time and activities, particularly when individuals have numerous work, school, and family commitments. People frequently use multiple systems, and may keep both a business and family calendar to help prevent them from over committing their time. Calendars are also used as part of a complete timekeeping system: date and time of day together specify a moment in time. Agricultural calendar is developed over 1000s of year observation and experience of farming communities and I would boldly say that agriculture is the mother of all calendars. Njattu vela calendars (still used in state of Kerala) is best example and this author got testimony from many farmers that it works marvelously. Some more info Now I will go through various calendar concepts used by ancients and its uses in day to day life without going much detail about its uses. Saura year, Savana year both are solar based calendars (Or better, Saura year is tropical solar year, and Savana year is Sidereal solar year) Chaandra year and Naaksatra year both are moon based calendars. (Or better, Chandra year is luni-solar calendar and Naakshatra year is sidereal lunar year) Barhaspathya Year: Calendar based on rotation of Jupiter. The planet guru in one sign (Rasi: sidereal 30 degree area) is considered as a year. This is used in religious functions of mass participation or gather of scholars etc [Ancient Kerala festival Maha-Magha or mamangam is an example. This festival later turned into a repeating war between various rulers for supremacy as chakravarhty (king of kings )] It is said that the Aryabhata, a Kerala Jain, presented his system of Parahita Sidhantha in presence of such a crowd of scholars in one such Maha-Makha and got it accepted. The same is true with Parameshwara Acharya who developed Drigganita Sidhanta later. There is reference about Saptarshi calendars in various Puranas and treatises. But scholars are divided over its application. It is used to record major events after happening or recording dynasties and coronation or uprising of new kingdoms. The Saptarshi Calendar is based on movements of stars called Saptarshis (7 sages) or Sapta-Rkshas (7 stars). Those Saptarshi are named: 1. Visvamitra: Dubhe (Dubb, Ak): Bear, Alpha Ursæ Majoris. 2. Jamadagni Merak (Mirak): Loins, Beta Ursæ Majoris. 3. Bharadvaja Phad (Phecda; Phekda; Phegda; Phekha; Phacd): Thigh, Gamma Ursæ Majoris. 4. Gautama Megrez (Kaffa): Insertion-point (of the bear's tail), Delta Ursæ Majoris. 5. Atri Alioth (Aliath): Goat, Epsilon Ursæ Majoris. 6. Vasistha Mizar (Mizat; Mirza): Wrapping (Loincloth), Zeta Ursæ Majoris. 7. Kasyapa Alkaid (Benetnash, Benetnasch, Elkeid): Chief Daughter of the Bier, Eta Ursæ Majoris. Saptarshi- or The Seven Great Sages gets its name in the Indian Mythology after the sages mentioned above. These sages are supposed to be revolving around Dhruva, the Pole Star. This means that Saptarshis are positioned near to the pole star in the North. They move from east to west around pole star in clockwise direction. Sage Vriddha Garga renounced Rishi and astronomer refers to the stay of Sapta Rishis in 67th yr at the time of transition of Dwarapara - Kaliyugas. There are various references about various events in several Sapta Rishi eras. Soura varsha (tropical solar year) = 365.2425 solar days Savana year (Sidereal year) = 360 degree = 365.25 solar days Naakshtra year (Sidereal lunar year) = 324 Nakshtra days (27 x 12 = 324) Chaandra year (luni-solar year) = 354 solar days (29.5 x 12 = 254) = 360 Tithi Briahspathy year (Jupiterian year) = 361 solar days What ever be the year reckoning system we may use - 1/12th of an year is taken as one month and 1/30th is taken as a day. It is clear that - for ascertaining all this knowledge the abstract concept of zodiac and knowledge of degrees and signs are required. Savana Dina is calculated from Sunrise to Sunrise which is approximately 60 ghaties. (24 hours). Saura Masa (solar month) is suns movement in one Sign or Masa (30 degree span in zodiac), i.e. time taken for Sun's entry and exist. Chandra Dina is based on Tithi and month is from one Amavasya to another Amavasya. There was also a system of calculating month from one Paurnami to another Paurnami. Luni -solar calendar is used for all kinds of religious festivals. Vrata (fasting), Seemantham (a special ceremony when a lady is pregnant), pumsavanam (another ceremony when a lady is pregnant. It is said that during this ceremony the use of some special Ayurvedic herbs can even change the sex of foetus especially for getting male kids. Now the technique is lost with time and simple ceremony is conducted). All these festivals are supposed to do following Savana calendar. Choulam (Cutting hair for the first time for the baby), Upanayanam (Initiation) , rajyabhisekham (crowning of king; coronation), marriages, karnadedham, sastra bandhanam (first acceptance of sword from a guru or a king), go-danam (donating cow to others), wearing of new ornaments or dresses etc are mainly based on Solar calendar and Nakshatra calendar. Coming sidereal Nakshatra considerations - For go-danam (donating cow) janma nakshtra is avoided; for first union of couples (if they are taking a muhurta) Janma nakshtra of both is avoided; for marriage, the Nakshatra of bride groom should be avoided and ultimate importance is given to brides star and further considerations; for anna-prasha (first food giving ceremony for the baby) and treating of diseases or giving medicines etc moon is important and its power is also considered along with other factors; for all kind of religious celebrations luni - solar calendar is used as months considered are usually luni-solar [As contributing factors, luni-solar months such as Chaitra, Vaisakha etc or sidereal solar such as Mesha, Vrishabha etc and Nakshtras which themselves are sidereal in nature, Tithi which is luni-solar in nature are all considered] Jupiterian calendars are used for festivals which happen after certain number of years especially which repeats after every 12 yrs (one Vyazhavatta, 1 Jupiterian period). Ancient Kerala festival of scholars known as Maha-magha (Jupiter in Leo in Magha Nakshatra) could be the primary example. Kumbha mela and maha kumbha melas is another example. The Kumbha-mela at the period of Harsha vardhana is recorded by Chinese traveler hu-ang –tsang. In some temples (especially maha kshetras, i.e. big temples) some festivals or some remedial measures such as Deva prasna (temple Prasna) is conducted once in every 12 yrs unless some serious emergency happens. Deva pratishta (Installation of idols of deities) and agrayanam, Upanayanam (initiation) , go-danam (donating cow), kalasam (a special temple tantric act done to increase the power of deity) or rajya bishekham (crowning of king) etc are said to b when sun is in Uttarayana. Except Deva Pratishta (Installation of idols of deities), all the above activities can be usually done only on bright half of moon in case of emergency . All good events including things related to deities (daiva karyas) are done in Uttarayana and Sukla paksha. Things related to forefathers (Pitru karyas) are conducted in Dakhsinayana and Krishna paksha (black half of moon phase). I hope this elaboration will serve as a base to elaborate your understanding about the various calendars in use in ancient India, their purpose, use and importance – both from the time keeper's (Panchangakaras) perspective and also from the astrological perspective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2009 Report Share Posted April 26, 2009 Dear Hari Malla ji, Then you will have to provide names for - 1) Years - similar to Prabhavadi or so [Vedic year names]. But those names will not do since those are name assigned to Jupiter-Saturn years. 2) Solar Months - similar to Tapa, Tapasya or Aruna, Arunaja or so [Vedic seasonal month names]; But those names will not do since as per your opinion even the winter season is termed hot season, in that vedic naming! 3) Lunar Months - similar to Chaitra, Vaisakha etc. But you cannot use these names since you don't want to pegg Lunar months with siderial Nakshatras with the names Chitra, Visakha etc. 3) Weeks - If you want you can ignore this, since not many give unique names to weeks. 4) Solar Days - similar to Sunday, Monday etc. But this 7 day cycle will not do, since it is not in tune with 365.2425 days tropical year; so you will have to invent your own day names and cycle. 5) Sidereal Lunar - i.e. Vedic Nakshatra - Like aswati, Bharani etc. But you will have to find your own names since you have to create a system for Tropical Lunar, since you are against any sidereal consideration. 6) Lunar - i.e. Vedic Tithi - But you cannot use the names such as Prathama, Dwiteeya etc since it sound as if of nursory standard counting. Some unique names should be assigned and the total count should be exactly 29.5 instead of the current erronious count of 30 Tithis. (Since the moon takes only 29.5 days and not 30 days) But I wonder after all this whether this new born forsaken system should be termed - Vedic, Lunatic, Kaulish, Nasa-wala, JPL-wala (IPL sounds more familiar) or simply a forsaken cross bread with multiple fathers. So let us start! We are here to support you and help you out - in this Lunatic effort of yours! :=) All the best and proceed! Best wishes to you in your sick track! Certainly I am compationate. Note: Excuse me, but sometimes bitter truths have also to be spoken. Thank you. ;)Love and regards,Sreenadh , Hari Malla <harimalla wrote:>> Dear K Gopu,> Instead of having many types of calenders which are basically out of alignment with its own principles of seasonal value, it is better to have only a few ones with correct representation of its own basic principles.Do I sound nasty? Excuse me,but sometimes bitter truths have also to be spoken.thank you,> sincerely ours,> Hari Malla Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2009 Report Share Posted April 26, 2009 , K Gopu <kgopu_24 wrote: > > dear shri sunil nair, > thanks for an excellent and simple presentation of calendars of > ancient india. >  > thanks, > regards, > k.gopu > > > > --- On Sat, 4/25/09, sunil nair astro_tellerkerala wrote: > > sunil nair astro_tellerkerala > Various calendars of ancient India > > Saturday, April 25, 2009, 9:21 PM > > >  > Various calendars of ancient India >                                                                 Written by Sunil Nair >  > Calendar is a system of organizing days for social, religious, commercial, or administrative purposes. This is done by giving names to periods of time †" typically for days, weeks, months, and years. The name given to each day is known as a date. Periods in a calendar (such as years and months) are usually, though not necessarily, is synchronized with the cycles of some astronomical phenomenon, such as the cycle of Sun or Moon. Many civilizations and societies have devised a calendar, usually derived from other calendars on which they model their systems, suited to their particular needs. >     Cycles can be synchronized with periodic phenomena: > > Period appearance in the same place in the sky. This is usually referred to by the name †" Sidereal. This sidereal re-occurrence could be either in lunar style or in solar style. > > Sidereal Lunar: A sidereal lunar calendar is synchronized to the motion of the Moon against the stellar background. We may expect unique names for each month in such lunar calendars. But even in India, unique names for Lunar months are not known.  Lunar days are known by a special name sequence in India, such as †" > > Nakshatra : Moon's Longitude/27 > 27 day cycle, since Moon takes 27 and 1/3 days complete a rotation. Asvini, Bharani etc are day names used in this system. > Since the reckoning of the movement of Moon is pegged to the fixed stellar background in this case, such lunar calendars is considered as part Sidereal system.  > >  > > Sidereal Solar: A sidereal solar calendar is synchronized to the motion of the Sun against the stellar background. A Sidereal Solar calendar dates, indicate the position of the earth on its revolution around the sun (or equivalently the apparent position of the sun moving on the celestial sphere) †" or in other words the position of the Sun in ecliptic. If the position of the earth is reckoned with respect to the fixed stars, then the dates indicate the zodiacal constellation near which the sun can be found. Usually in all such sidereal solar calendars, unique names for each month would be present. The Indian names used for such sidereal months are Mesha, Vrishabha etc. Like the sidereal solar months, sidereal Nakshatra position of Sun is also given importance by ancient civilizations. For example - > > Njattu vela (Njayar Nila, Sun's position in a Nakshatra): Sun's Longitude/27 > A year is composed on 27 Njattu Velas (each Njattu vela corresponding to a Nakshatra and known by the Nakshatra name). One Njattu vela period is usually around 13.52 solar days or better till Sun's position in Nakshatra areas spanning 13 deg. 20 min each. > Sidereal calendar is well known and in extensive use in India from Agamic and Vedic past onwards, and is known to have been in use before the period of Hipparchus in ancient Greek as well. > > Tropical solar calendar: If the position of the earth (or the sun) is reckoned with respect to the equinox, then the dates indicate the season (and so are synchronized to the declination of the sun). Such a calendar is called a tropical solar calendar. That means, a tropical solar calendar is based on perceived seasonal changes synchronized to the apparent motion of the Sun. Usually in all such solar calendars unique names for each month, and day would be present. (Solar months without month names †" is usually near to nil). Solar months were named Isha, Urja, Madhu, Madhava, Tapa, Tapasya etc in India. Solar calendars are usually seasonal in nature, and so the year beginnings are clubbed to the equinoxes and solstices. Solar days are known by a special name sequence originated in India, now popular throughout the world such as †" > > Vara : Sunday, Monday, Tuesday etc > 7 day cycle, since Earth †" represented by Sun moving through ecliptic - takes more than 364 days †" actually 365.2425 days †" to complete on cycle. > > Tropical lunar calendar: There is nothing called a tropical lunar calendar, since the seasons are NOT in any way connected to Moon. As every one knows, a lunar calendar is a calendar based on the movement of Moon alone. But when this movement is treated against the fixed sidereal background it is called `Sidereal Lunar calendar' (mentioned above) and not simply lunar calendar. When this movement is treated in connection with the relative position of Sun, (i.e. lunar phases based calendar) then it is no more simply a lunar calendar, but a `Luni-solar calendar' since Sun is also considered. Therefore lunar phases based calendar is discussed under the luni-solar section.    > A luni-solar calendar is based on a combination of both solar and lunar reckonings. The lunar phases based calendar should be treated as a luni-solar calendar and not as simply lunar alone. A calendar that tries to adjust its luni solar months with pure solar months and year also should be treated as a luni-solar calendar itself. Thus a luni-solar calendar could be of two type †" > > A lunar phases based calendar > A calendar that tries to adjust its luni solar months with pure solar months or with solar tropical year. > Usually in all such luni-solar calendars unique names for each month would be present. In India the luni-solar months are known by the names such as Chaitra, Vaisakha etc. Luni-solar months may or may not be seasonal in nature. Actually in case of luni-solar months a special effort of `adjusting the year' with solar tropical year, is required to make the luni-solar year seasonal (since by nature luni-solar months are more connected to lunar phases and not with solar seasons). This is how the concept of `Adimasa (extra month) comes into play. In Luni-solar calendars months of moon are fitted in with sidereal or tropical solar year and seasons. And thus the concept of adhi masa (extra month) and khaya masa (deducted month) etc comes into play. These `adjustments' help us to connect lunar months corrected to Sun's movement and seasons. Hence we cannot say no more that `Lunar phases based year is perfectly lunar. Perfect lunar months or year could be seen > only in Islam (actually not even in Islam) as they consider only visible phenomena. > Luni-solar day reckoning is another unique concept associated with this type of calendars. Luni-solar days are knows by two name sequences in India such as - > >  > > Tithi : (Moon's longitude †" Sun's longitude) / 30 > 30 day cycle, since the Moon takes 29 and 1/5 days to complete its waxing and waning phases. The 30 days are divided into two phases such as Sukla paksha (waxing phase) and Krishna paksha (waning phase) having 15 days each. Each day is named such as Prathama (1nd), Dwiteeeya (2nd), Triteeya (3rd) etc upto 15th. The 15th day is termed Paurnami (Full Moon) or Amavasi (No Moon or New Moon) as per Indian system. > >  > > Nityayoga : (Moon's longitude †" Sun's longitude) / 27 > 27 day cycle, since Moon takes 27 and 1/3 days complete a rotation. The 27 days are named Vishkambha etc. > > There are some other calendars that appear to be synchronized to the motion of Venus, Jupiter, Saturn, some special stars such as Sirius etc. > > Venus: Synchronization to Venus appears to occur primarily in civilizations near the Equator. As far as I know - It is not used by Indians; but Mayans and Egyptians had Venus based calendar. > Jupiter: Indians had a Jupiter based calendar †" in which 12 years makes a cycle; but no specific year, month or day naming convention is known to have been in use with this system. > Saturn: As far as I know - no Saturn only calendar system was known to have been in use in India. > Jupiter-Saturn: A Jupiter-Saturn based year reckoning system in which a 60 year cycle with unique names for each year provides another calendar which was very popular in India. In this system also even though unique names such as Prabhava, Vibhava etc is available for years, no unique name for months, day etc is available. > Sirius etc: Such stellar based calendars are known to have been in use by some ancient civilizations such as Egypt. Many scholars tried to associate such phenomenon with Indian calendars and festivals as well.  > In India, even such calendars are synchronized with the Sidereal stellar (Rasi or Nakshatra) background as in the case of Jupiterian year and calendar. Or in case of Panchavarsheeya yuga system mentioned in Vedanga Jyotisha. > > Arithmetic and astronomical calendars: Most of the calendars used by ancient civilization needs arithmetic and same time based on astronomical phenomenon with a definite set of rules, this approach gives high degree of perfection. Examples of such calendars would be the long count or short count dates used by Mayans or the Ahargana system (based on Kali era) used by ancient Indians. >  > The advantage of such calendars is the ease of calculating when a particular date occurs. The disadvantage is imperfect accuracy over a long period of time.   Furthermore, even if the calendar is very accurate, its accuracy diminishes slowly over time, owing to changes in Earth's rotation. This limits the lifetime of an accurate arithmetic calendar to a few thousand years. After then, the rules would need to be modified from observations made since the invention of the calendar. Actually all this happens as said by great astronomical treatise Surya Sidhanta, which states †" " time is limitless and formless and we are trying to limit the time to some form for taking a calculation at a given moment required by us " . So whether the approach is scientific, arithmetic, astronomical or seasonal - it is bound to cause errors in long run, if not corrected in due course and then it is festival for those who see fault in everything. >     > The primary practical use of a calendar is to identify days: to be informed about and/or to agree on a future event and to record an event that has happened. Days may be significant for civil, religious or social reasons. For example, a calendar provides a way to determine which days are religious or civil holidays, which days mark the beginning and end of business accounting periods, and which days have legal significance, such as the day taxes are due or a contract expires. Also a calendar may, by identifying a day, provide other useful information about the day such as its season. >  > Calendars are also used to help people manage their personal schedules, time and activities, particularly when individuals have numerous work, school, and family commitments. People frequently use multiple systems, and may keep both a business and family calendar to help prevent them from over committing their time. >  > Calendars are also used as part of a complete timekeeping system: date and time of day together specify a moment in time. Agricultural calendar is developed over 1000s of year observation and experience of farming communities and I would boldly say that agriculture is the mother of all calendars. Njattu vela calendars (still used in state of Kerala) is best example and this author got testimony from many farmers that it works marvelously. >  > Some more info > Now I will go through various calendar concepts used by ancients and its uses in day to day life without going much detail about its uses. > > Saura year, Savana year both are solar based calendars (Or better, Saura year is tropical solar year, and Savana year is Sidereal solar year) > Chaandra year and Naaksatra year both are moon based calendars. (Or better, Chandra year is luni-solar calendar and Naakshatra year is sidereal lunar year) > Barhaspathya Year: Calendar based on rotation of Jupiter. The planet guru in one sign (Rasi: sidereal 30 degree area) is considered as a year. This is used in religious functions of mass participation or gather of scholars etc [Ancient Kerala festival Maha-Magha or mamangam is an example. This festival later turned into a repeating war between various rulers for supremacy as chakravarhty (king of kings )] >     > It is said that the Aryabhata, a Kerala Jain, presented his system of Parahita Sidhantha in presence of such a crowd of scholars in one such Maha-Makha and got it accepted. The same is true with Parameshwara Acharya who developed Drigganita Sidhanta later. >     > There is reference about Saptarshi calendars in various Puranas and treatises. But scholars are divided over its application. It is used to record major events after happening or recording dynasties and coronation or uprising of new kingdoms. The Saptarshi Calendar is based on movements of stars called Saptarshis (7 sages) or Sapta-Rkshas (7 stars). Those Saptarshi are named: > 1.     Visvamitra: >      Dubhe (Dubb, Ak): Bear, Alpha Ursæ Majoris. > 2.     Jamadagni > Merak (Mirak): Loins, Beta Ursæ Majoris. > 3.     Bharadvaja > Phad (Phecda; Phekda; Phegda; Phekha; Phacd): Thigh, Gamma Ursæ Majoris. > 4.     Gautama > Megrez (Kaffa): Insertion-point (of the bear's tail), Delta Ursæ Majoris. > 5.     Atri > Alioth (Aliath): Goat, Epsilon Ursæ Majoris. > 6.     Vasistha > Mizar (Mizat; Mirza): Wrapping (Loincloth), Zeta Ursæ Majoris. > 7.     Kasyapa > Alkaid (Benetnash, Benetnasch, Elkeid): Chief Daughter of the Bier, Eta Ursæ Majoris. >  > Saptarshi- or The Seven Great Sages gets its name in the Indian Mythology after the sages mentioned above. These sages are supposed to be revolving around Dhruva, the Pole Star. This means that Saptarshis are positioned near to the pole star in the North. They move from east to west around pole star in clockwise direction. Sage Vriddha Garga renounced Rishi and astronomer refers to the stay of Sapta Rishis in 67th yr at the time of transition of Dwarapara - Kaliyugas. There are various references about various events in several Sapta Rishi eras. >  > Soura varsha (tropical solar year) = 365.2425 solar days > Savana year (Sidereal year) = 360 degree = 365.25 solar days > Naakshtra year (Sidereal lunar year) = 324 Nakshtra days (27 x 12 = 324) > Chaandra year (luni-solar year) = 354 solar days (29.5 x 12 = 254) = 360 Tithi > Briahspathy year (Jupiterian year) = 361 solar days >  > What ever be the year reckoning system we may use - 1/12th of an year is taken as one month and 1/30th is taken as a day. It is clear that - for ascertaining all this knowledge the abstract concept of zodiac and knowledge of degrees and signs are required. >  > > Savana Dina is calculated from Sunrise to Sunrise which is approximately 60 ghaties. (24 hours). > Saura Masa (solar month) is suns movement in one Sign or Masa (30 degree span in zodiac), i.e. time taken for Sun's entry and exist. > Chandra Dina is based on Tithi and month is from one Amavasya to another Amavasya. There was also a system of calculating month from one Paurnami to another Paurnami. > Luni -solar calendar is used for all kinds of religious festivals. > Vrata (fasting), Seemantham (a special ceremony when a lady is pregnant), pumsavanam (another ceremony when a lady is pregnant. It is said that during this ceremony the use of some special Ayurvedic herbs can even change the sex of foetus especially for getting male kids. Now the technique is lost with time and simple ceremony is conducted). All these festivals are supposed to do following Savana calendar. > Choulam (Cutting hair for the first time for the baby), Upanayanam (Initiation) , rajyabhisekham (crowning of king; coronation), marriages, karnadedham, sastra bandhanam (first acceptance of sword from a guru or a king), go-danam (donating cow to others), wearing of new ornaments or dresses etc are mainly based on Solar calendar and Nakshatra calendar. > Coming sidereal Nakshatra considerations - For go-danam (donating cow) janma nakshtra is avoided; for first union of couples (if they are taking a muhurta) Janma nakshtra of both is avoided; for marriage, the Nakshatra of bride groom should be avoided and ultimate importance is given to brides star and further considerations; for anna-prasha (first food giving ceremony for the baby) and treating of diseases or giving medicines etc moon is important and its power is also considered along with other factors; for all kind of religious celebrations luni - solar calendar is used as months considered are usually luni-solar [As contributing factors, luni-solar months such as Chaitra, Vaisakha etc or sidereal solar such as Mesha, Vrishabha etc and Nakshtras which themselves are sidereal in nature, Tithi which is luni-solar in nature are all considered] > Jupiterian calendars are used for festivals which happen after certain number of years especially which repeats after every 12 yrs (one Vyazhavatta, 1 Jupiterian period). Ancient Kerala festival of scholars known as Maha-magha (Jupiter in Leo in Magha Nakshatra) could be the primary example. Kumbha mela and maha kumbha melas is another example. The Kumbha-mela at the period of Harsha vardhana is recorded by Chinese traveler hu-ang †" tsang. In some temples (especially maha kshetras, i.e. big temples) some festivals or some remedial measures such as Deva prasna (temple Prasna) is conducted once in every 12 yrs unless some serious emergency happens. > Deva pratishta (Installation of idols of deities) and agrayanam, Upanayanam (initiation) , go-danam (donating cow),  kalasam (a special temple tantric act done to increase the power of deity) or rajya bishekham (crowning of king) etc are said to b when sun is in Uttarayana. Except Deva Pratishta (Installation of idols of deities), all the above activities can be usually done only on bright half of moon in case of emergency . > All good events including things related to deities (daiva karyas) are done in Uttarayana and Sukla paksha. Things related to forefathers (Pitru karyas) are conducted in Dakhsinayana and Krishna paksha (black half of moon phase). >  > I hope this elaboration will serve as a base to elaborate your understanding about the various calendars in use in ancient India, their purpose, use and importance †" both from the time keeper's (Panchangakaras) perspective and also from the astrological perspective. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2009 Report Share Posted April 26, 2009 Dear Nairji, My main objection is for the tropical solar months as madhu madhav or tapa tapasya.These are not true.The proof is in vedanga jyotish. If you read vedanga jyotish,the 6th sloka says when the moon and the sun rise together in dhanistha,at that time the five year yuga,month of maagha,tapa sukla pakshya and uttrayan start together. My claim is that the months are not solar but soli-lunar.here if you study the quote, month of maagha means when the lunar month with the fullmoon is on maghaa nakshyatra and tapa sukla pakshya means the tropical soli-lunar month's bright half.There is no room for a solar month here. Even you had quoted in your previous article that in the vedas 'the months come from the moon'.Then where is the scope of madhu madhav or tapa tapasya etc to be tropical solar. If you can find specific quotes that they are solar please give.Otherwise please accept that they are soli-lunar seasonal months without hesitation, as the proof is clear in vedanga jyotish.Those days, the year was solar or soli-lunar but month was not solar.the seasons were soli-lunar.The ayans were also in lunar dates,-like maagha sukla pratipada representing uttaryan.This festival was known as magha snana.We celebrate maagha snana now a days on poush purnima, since it was shifted to it after the sidhanta period.Thank you. Sincerely yours, Hari Malla Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 27, 2009 Report Share Posted April 27, 2009 Dear Harimallaji, I am sorry to have to say that knowingly or unknowingly you too want to dislodge the Hindu Calendar like AKK has been trying to since long. The only difference is that you now want to combine the lunar months with the Tropical months. The Hindu calendar is basically a Luni-Solar Sidereal Solar calendar and it is a combination of the sidereal Solar calendar and the sidereal Luaar calendar. If you have noticed, the Equinoxes and the Solstices are reported in the Vedic literature in terms of the Nakshatras, in which they occurred in those times. That is how we can find out the date of the Vedic literatures from these data. From the Mahabharata time onward the Rashis came into use and that was around 3100 BCE. In Bhagavata purana (which was narrated to Parikshita, the grandson of Arjuna, about a century after the Mahabharata war) we find mention of the Rashis. Thus the Equinoxes and solstices have been linked to the Nakshatras in the pre-Mahabharata days and later on to the Rashis. The date of Mayasura's Suryasiddhanta is also around that time and it was immediately after the composition os the Bhagavata purana. Vedanga Jyotisha, though composed by the disciple of Lagadhacharya in 2400 BCE (Colebrooke however says it to be in 1400 BCE as he believed that the Aryans came to India only in the 1500 BCE and hence it could not have been earlier than 1400 BCE) followed the earlier Vedic tradition of mentioning Nakshatras and talked about the Uttarayana in terms of Nakshatra and said that it occurred in Dhanistha. Lagadhacharya has been mentioned in the third person. On the other hand the Suryasiddhanta said that when the Sun was in the Makar Rashi there was Uttarayana. Therefore it is only proper that we should mention the Rashi in which the Uttarayana occurs. These days the Uttarayana does not occur in the Makar Rashi any more and hence it is only proper that we don't observe the Makara Sankranti on the Uttarayana day. If however anybody wants to observe the Uttarayana as the Dhanu Sankranti, then nobody should raise any objection to that. Vedanga Jyotisha talks about two types of months such as Tapa and Magha.The former is a month of the Seasonal or Ritu-based year or Tropical year and the later is a month of the Nakshatriya year or Sidereal year. In a sidereal year the sun passes through a Nakshatra only once in a Solar year and the Moon passes through a Nakshatra thirteen times duringn the Solar year. It is for this reason the Lunar sidereal month has to be related to the Solar sidereal month. Though the month Magha etc. mentioned in the Mahabharata are Lunar months one must accommodate Solar Magha etc. in the Calendar for the reason given in this paragraph as well as for the reason mentioned in the earlier (ie.first) paragraph. As regards the week days etc. there is no problem in any calendar system. For the purpose of indicating the seasonal months only the Equinoxes and the Solstices may be mentioned in the Luni-Solar calendar. AKK wants to make the Hindu calendar a copy of the Gregorian calendar. The Romans followed a Tropical calendar and the day, following the Winter solstice day, was observed as the birthday of the Sun. In the 4th century BCE when the Winter Solstice fell on the 24th December then the next day ie. 25th December was to be the observed as the birthday of the Sun but King Constantine decrred that day to be observed as the birthday od Jesus Christ. Later on Pope Gregory did correct the Julian calendar but by that time the 25th December became synonymous with Christmas probably wants us to do what Pope Gregory failed to do ie to observe the day after the Winter Solstice day. Sincerely Sunil K. Bhattacharjya --- On Sun, 4/26/09, Hari Malla <harimalla wrote: Hari Malla <harimallaRe: Re: Various calendars of ancient India Date: Sunday, April 26, 2009, 10:30 AM Dear Nairji, My main objection is for the tropical solar months as madhu madhav or tapa tapasya.These are not true.The proof is in vedanga jyotish. If you read vedanga jyotish,the 6th sloka says when the moon and the sun rise together in dhanistha,at that time the five year yuga,month of maagha,tapa sukla pakshya and uttrayan start together. My claim is that the months are not solar but soli-lunar.here if you study the quote, month of maagha means when the lunar month with the fullmoon is on maghaa nakshyatra and tapa sukla pakshya means the tropical soli-lunar month's bright half.There is no room for a solar month here. Even you had quoted in your previous article that in the vedas 'the months come from the moon'.Then where is the scope of madhu madhav or tapa tapasya etc to be tropical solar. If you can find specific quotes that they are solar please give.Otherwise please accept that they are soli-lunar seasonal months without hesitation, as the proof is clear in vedanga jyotish.Those days, the year was solar or soli-lunar but month was not solar.the seasons were soli-lunar.The ayans were also in lunar dates,-like maagha sukla pratipada representing uttaryan.This festival was known as magha snana.We celebrate maagha snana now a days on poush purnima, since it was shifted to it after the sidhanta period.Thank you. Sincerely yours, Hari Malla Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 27, 2009 Report Share Posted April 27, 2009 Various calendars of ancient India Written by Sunil Nair Calendar is a system of organizing days for social, religious, commercial, or administrative purposes. This is done by giving names to periods of time – typically for days, weeks, months, and years. The name given to each day is known as a date. Periods in a calendar (such as years and months) are usually, though not necessarily, is synchronized with the cycles of some astronomical phenomenon, such as the cycle of Sun or Moon. Many civilizations and societies have devised a calendar, usually derived from other calendars on which they model their systems, suited to their particular needs. Cycles can be synchronized with periodic phenomena: * Period appearance in the same place in the sky. This is usually referred to by the name – Sidereal. This sidereal re-occurrence could be either in lunar style or in solar style. * * Sidereal Lunar: A sidereal lunar calendar is synchronized to the motion of the Moon against the stellar background. We may expect unique names for each month in such lunar calendars. But even in India, unique names for Lunar months are not known. Lunar days are known by a special name sequence in India, such as – * Nakshatra : Moon's Longitude/27 27 day cycle, since Moon takes 27 and 1/3 days complete a rotation. Asvini, Bharani etc are day names used in this system. Since the reckoning of the movement of Moon is pegged to the fixed stellar background in this case, such lunar calendars is considered as part Sidereal system. * * Sidereal Solar: A sidereal solar calendar is synchronized to the motion of the Sun against the stellar background. A Sidereal Solar calendar dates, indicate the position of the earth on its revolution around the sun (or equivalently the apparent position of the sun moving on the celestial sphere) – or in other words the position of the Sun in ecliptic. If the position of the earth is reckoned with respect to the fixed stars, then the dates indicate the zodiacal constellation near which the sun can be found. Usually in all such sidereal solar calendars, unique names for each month would be present. The Indian names used for such sidereal months are Mesha, Vrishabha etc. Like the sidereal solar months, sidereal Nakshatra position of Sun is also given importance by ancient civilizations. For example - * Njattu vela (Njayar Nila, Sun's position in a Nakshatra): Sun's Longitude/27 A year is composed on 27 Njattu Velas (each Njattu vela corresponding to a Nakshatra and known by the Nakshatra name). One Njattu vela period is usually around 13.52 solar days or better till Sun's position in Nakshatra areas spanning 13 deg. 20 min each. Sidereal calendar is well known and in extensive use in India from Agamic and Vedic past onwards, and is known to have been in use before the period of Hipparchus in ancient Greek as well. * Tropical solar calendar: If the position of the earth (or the sun) is reckoned with respect to the equinox, then the dates indicate the season (and so are synchronized to the declination of the sun). Such a calendar is called a tropical solar calendar. That means, a tropical solar calendar is based on perceived seasonal changes synchronized to the apparent motion of the Sun. Usually in all such solar calendars unique names for each month, and day would be present. (Solar months without month names – is usually near to nil). Solar months were named Isha, Urja, Madhu, Madhava, Tapa, Tapasya etc in India. Solar calendars are usually seasonal in nature, and so the year beginnings are clubbed to the equinoxes and solstices. Solar days are known by a special name sequence originated in India, now popular throughout the world such as – * Vara : Sunday, Monday, Tuesday etc * 7 day cycle, since Earth – represented by Sun moving through ecliptic - takes more than 364 days – actually 365.2425 days – to complete on cycle. * Tropical lunar calendar: There is nothing called a tropical lunar calendar, since the seasons are NOT in any way connected to Moon. As every one knows, a lunar calendar is a calendar based on the movement of Moon alone. But when this movement is treated against the fixed sidereal background it is called `Sidereal Lunar calendar' (mentioned above) and not simply lunar calendar. When this movement is treated in connection with the relative position of Sun, (i.e. lunar phases based calendar) then it is no more simply a lunar calendar, but a `Luni-solar calendar' since Sun is also considered. Therefore lunar phases based calendar is discussed under the luni-solar section. * * A luni-solar calendar is based on a combination of both solar and lunar reckonings. The lunar phases based calendar should be treated as a luni-solar calendar and not as simply lunar alone. A calendar that tries to adjust its luni solar months with pure solar months and year also should be treated as a luni-solar calendar itself. Thus a luni-solar calendar could be of two type – * A lunar phases based calendar * A calendar that tries to adjust its luni solar months with pure solar months or with solar tropical year. * Usually in all such luni-solar calendars unique names for each month would be present. In India the luni-solar months are known by the names such as Chaitra, Vaisakha etc. Luni-solar months may or may not be seasonal in nature. Actually in case of luni-solar months a special effort of `adjusting the year' with solar tropical year, is required to make the luni-solar year seasonal (since by nature luni-solar months are more connected to lunar phases and not with solar seasons). This is how the concept of `Adimasa (extra month) comes into play. In Luni-solar calendars months of moon are fitted in with sidereal or tropical solar year and seasons. And thus the concept of adhi masa (extra month) and khaya masa (deducted month) etc comes into play. These `adjustments' help us to connect lunar months corrected to Sun's movement and seasons. Hence we cannot say no more that `Lunar phases based year is perfectly lunar. Perfect lunar months or year could be seen only in Islam (actually not even in Islam) as they consider only visible phenomena. Luni-solar day reckoning is another unique concept associated with this type of calendars. Luni-solar days are knows by two name sequences in India such as - * * Tithi : (Moon's longitude – Sun's longitude) / 30 * 30 day cycle, since the Moon takes 29 and 1/5 days to complete its waxing and waning phases. The 30 days are divided into two phases such as Sukla paksha (waxing phase) and Krishna paksha (waning phase) having 15 days each. Each day is named such as Prathama (1nd), Dwiteeeya (2nd), Triteeya (3rd) etc upto 15th. The 15th day is termed Paurnami (Full Moon) or Amavasi (No Moon or New Moon) as per Indian system. * * Nityayoga : (Moon's longitude – Sun's longitude) / 27 * 27 day cycle, since Moon takes 27 and 1/3 days complete a rotation. The 27 days are named Vishkambha etc. * There are some other calendars that appear to be synchronized to the motion of Venus, Jupiter, Saturn, some special stars such as Sirius etc. * Venus: Synchronization to Venus appears to occur primarily in civilizations near the Equator. As far as I know - It is not used by Indians; but Mayans and Egyptians had Venus based calendar. * * Jupiter: Indians had a Jupiter based calendar – in which 12 years makes a cycle; but no specific year, month or day naming convention is known to have been in use with this system. * Saturn: As far as I know - no Saturn only calendar system was known to have been in use in India. Jupiter-Saturn: A Jupiter-Saturn based year reckoning system in which a 60 year cycle with unique names for each year provides another calendar which was very popular in India. In this system also even though unique names such as Prabhava, Vibhava etc is available for years, no unique name for months, day etc is available. * * Sirius etc: Such stellar based calendars are known to have been in use by some ancient civilizations such as Egypt. Many scholars tried to associate such phenomenon with Indian calendars and festivals as well. * In India, even such calendars are synchronized with the Sidereal stellar (Rasi or Nakshatra) background as in the case of Jupiterian year and calendar. Or in case of Panchavarsheeya yuga system mentioned in Vedanga Jyotisha. * Arithmetic and astronomical calendars: Most of the calendars used by ancient civilization needs arithmetic and same time based on astronomical phenomenon with a definite set of rules, this approach gives high degree of perfection. Examples of such calendars would be the long count or short count dates used by Mayans or the Ahargana system (based on Kali era) used by ancient Indians. The advantage of such calendars is the ease of calculating when a particular date occurs. The disadvantage is imperfect accuracy over a long period of time. Furthermore, even if the calendar is very accurate, its accuracy diminishes slowly over time, owing to changes in Earth's rotation. This limits the lifetime of an accurate arithmetic calendar to a few thousand years. After then, the rules would need to be modified from observations made since the invention of the calendar. Actually all this happens as said by great astronomical treatise Surya Sidhanta, which states – " time is limitless and formless and we are trying to limit the time to some form for taking a calculation at a given moment required by us " . So whether the approach is scientific, arithmetic, astronomical or seasonal - it is bound to cause errors in long run, if not corrected in due course and then it is festival for those who see fault in everything. The primary practical use of a calendar is to identify days: to be informed about and/or to agree on a future event and to record an event that has happened. Days may be significant for civil, religious or social reasons. For example, a calendar provides a way to determine which days are religious or civil holidays, which days mark the beginning and end of business accounting periods, and which days have legal significance, such as the day taxes are due or a contract expires. Also a calendar may, by identifying a day, provide other useful information about the day such as its season. Calendars are also used to help people manage their personal schedules, time and activities, particularly when individuals have numerous work, school, and family commitments. People frequently use multiple systems, and may keep both a business and family calendar to help prevent them from over committing their time. Calendars are also used as part of a complete timekeeping system: date and time of day together specify a moment in time. Agricultural calendar is developed over 1000s of year observation and experience of farming communities and I would boldly say that agriculture is the mother of all calendars. Njattu vela calendars (still used in state of Kerala) is best example and this author got testimony from many farmers that it works marvelously. Some more info Now I will go through various calendar concepts used by ancients and its uses in day to day life without going much detail about its uses. * Saura year, Savana year both are solar based calendars (Or better, Saura year is tropical solar year, and Savana year is Sidereal solar year) * Chaandra year and Naaksatra year both are moon based calendars. (Or better, Chandra year is luni-solar calendar and Naakshatra year is sidereal lunar year) * Barhaspathya Year: Calendar based on rotation of Jupiter. The planet guru in one sign (Rasi: sidereal 30 degree area) is considered as a year. This is used in religious functions of mass participation or gather of scholars etc [Ancient Kerala festival Maha-Magha or mamangam is an example. This festival later turned into a repeating war between various rulers for supremacy as chakravarhty (king of kings )] It is said that the Aryabhata, a Kerala Jain, presented his system of Parahita Sidhantha in presence of such a crowd of scholars in one such Maha-Makha and got it accepted. The same is true with Parameshwara Acharya who developed Drigganita Sidhanta later. There is reference about Saptarshi calendars in various Puranas and treatises. But scholars are divided over its application. It is used to record major events after happening or recording dynasties and coronation or uprising of new kingdoms. The Saptarshi Calendar is based on movements of stars called Saptarshis (7 sages) or Sapta-Rkshas (7 stars). Those Saptarshi are named: 1. Visvamitra: Dubhe (Dubb, Ak): Bear, Alpha Ursæ Majoris. 2. Jamadagni Merak (Mirak): Loins, Beta Ursæ Majoris. 3. Bharadvaja Phad (Phecda; Phekda; Phegda; Phekha; Phacd): Thigh, Gamma Ursæ Majoris. 4. Gautama Megrez (Kaffa): Insertion-point (of the bear's tail), Delta Ursæ Majoris. 5. Atri Alioth (Aliath): Goat, Epsilon Ursæ Majoris. 6. Vasistha Mizar (Mizat; Mirza): Wrapping (Loincloth), Zeta Ursæ Majoris. 7. Kasyapa Alkaid (Benetnash, Benetnasch, Elkeid): Chief Daughter of the Bier, Eta Ursæ Majoris. Saptarshi- or The Seven Great Sages gets its name in the Indian Mythology after the sages mentioned above. These sages are supposed to be revolving around Dhruva, the Pole Star. This means that Saptarshis are positioned near to the pole star in the North. They move from east to west around pole star in clockwise direction. Sage Vriddha Garga renounced Rishi and astronomer refers to the stay of Sapta Rishis in 67th yr at the time of transition of Dwarapara - Kaliyugas. There are various references about various events in several Sapta Rishi eras. Soura varsha (tropical solar year) = 365.2425 solar days Savana year (Sidereal year) = 360 degree = 365.25 solar days Naakshtra year (Sidereal lunar year) = 324 Nakshtra days (27 x 12 = 324) Chaandra year (luni-solar year) = 354 solar days (29.5 x 12 = 254) = 360 Tithi Briahspathy year (Jupiterian year) = 361 solar days What ever be the year reckoning system we may use - 1/12th of an year is taken as one month and 1/30th is taken as a day. It is clear that - for ascertaining all this knowledge the abstract concept of zodiac and knowledge of degrees and signs are required. * Savana Dina is calculated from Sunrise to Sunrise which is approximately 60 ghaties. (24 hours). * * Saura Masa (solar month) is suns movement in one Sign or Masa (30 degree span in zodiac), i.e. time taken for Sun's entry and exist. * * Chandra Dina is based on Tithi and month is from one Amavasya to another Amavasya. There was also a system of calculating month from one Paurnami to another Paurnami. * * Luni -solar calendar is used for all kinds of religious festivals. * * Vrata (fasting), Seemantham (a special ceremony when a lady is pregnant), pumsavanam (another ceremony when a lady is pregnant. It is said that during this ceremony the use of some special Ayurvedic herbs can even change the sex of foetus especially for getting male kids. Now the technique is lost with time and simple ceremony is conducted). All these festivals are supposed to do following Savana calendar. * * Choulam (Cutting hair for the first time for the baby), Upanayanam (Initiation), rajyabhisekham (crowning of king; coronation), marriages, karnadedham, sastra bandhanam (first acceptance of sword from a guru or a king), go-danam (donating cow to others), wearing of new ornaments or dresses etc are mainly based on Solar calendar and Nakshatra calendar. * * Coming sidereal Nakshatra considerations - For go-danam (donating cow) janma nakshtra is avoided; for first union of couples (if they are taking a muhurta) Janma nakshtra of both is avoided; for marriage, the Nakshatra of bride groom should be avoided and ultimate importance is given to brides star and further considerations; for anna-prasha (first food giving ceremony for the baby) and treating of diseases or giving medicines etc moon is important and its power is also considered along with other factors; for all kind of religious celebrations luni - solar calendar is used as months considered are usually luni-solar [As contributing factors, luni-solar months such as Chaitra, Vaisakha etc or sidereal solar such as Mesha, Vrishabha etc and Nakshtras which themselves are sidereal in nature, Tithi which is luni-solar in nature are all considered] * * Jupiterian calendars are used for festivals which happen after certain number of years especially which repeats after every 12 yrs (one Vyazhavatta, 1 Jupiterian period). Ancient Kerala festival of scholars known as Maha-magha (Jupiter in Leo in Magha Nakshatra) could be the primary example. Kumbha mela and maha kumbha melas is another example. The Kumbha-mela at the period of Harsha vardhana is recorded by Chinese traveler hu-ang –tsang. In some temples (especially maha kshetras, i.e. big temples) some festivals or some remedial measures such as Deva prasna (temple Prasna) is conducted once in every 12 yrs unless some serious emergency happens. * * Deva pratishta (Installation of idols of deities) and agrayanam, Upanayanam (initiation), go-danam (donating cow), kalasam (a special temple tantric act done to increase the power of deity) or rajya bishekham (crowning of king) etc are said to b when sun is in Uttarayana. Except Deva Pratishta (Installation of idols of deities), all the above activities can be usually done only on bright half of moon in case of emergency . * * All good events including things related to deities (daiva karyas) are done in Uttarayana and Sukla paksha. Things related to forefathers (Pitru karyas) are conducted in Dakhsinayana and Krishna paksha (black half of moon phase). I hope this elaboration will serve as a base to elaborate your understanding about the various calendars in use in ancient India, their purpose, use and importance – both from the time keeper's (Panchangakaras) perspective and also from the astrological perspective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 27, 2009 Report Share Posted April 27, 2009 Harimallaji, Sorry there was a typographical error. Please read 4th century BCE as 4th century CE. Thanks, Sunil K. Bhattacharjya --- On Sun, 4/26/09, Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya wrote: Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya Re: Re: Various calendars of ancient India Sunday, April 26, 2009, 7:51 PM Dear Harimallaji, I am sorry to have to say that knowingly or unknowingly you too want to dislodge the Hindu Calendar like AKK has been trying to since long. The only difference is that you now want to combine the lunar months with the Tropical months. The Hindu calendar is basically a Luni-Solar Sidereal Solar calendar and it is a combination of the sidereal Solar calendar and the sidereal Luaar calendar. If you have noticed, the Equinoxes and the Solstices are reported in the Vedic literature in terms of the Nakshatras, in which they occurred in those times. That is how we can find out the date of the Vedic literatures from these data. From the Mahabharata time onward the Rashis came into use and that was around 3100 BCE. In Bhagavata purana (which was narrated to Parikshita, the grandson of Arjuna, about a century after the Mahabharata war) we find mention of the Rashis. Thus the Equinoxes and solstices have been linked to the Nakshatras in the pre-Mahabharata days and later on to the Rashis. The date of Mayasura's Suryasiddhanta is also around that time and it was immediately after the composition os the Bhagavata purana. Vedanga Jyotisha, though composed by the disciple of Lagadhacharya in 2400 BCE (Colebrooke however says it to be in 1400 BCE as he believed that the Aryans came to India only in the 1500 BCE and hence it could not have been earlier than 1400 BCE) followed the earlier Vedic tradition of mentioning Nakshatras and talked about the Uttarayana in terms of Nakshatra and said that it occurred in Dhanistha. Lagadhacharya has been mentioned in the third person. On the other hand the Suryasiddhanta said that when the Sun was in the Makar Rashi there was Uttarayana. Therefore it is only proper that we should mention the Rashi in which the Uttarayana occurs. These days the Uttarayana does not occur in the Makar Rashi any more and hence it is only proper that we don't observe the Makara Sankranti on the Uttarayana day. If however anybody wants to observe the Uttarayana as the Dhanu Sankranti, then nobody should raise any objection to that. Vedanga Jyotisha talks about two types of months such as Tapa and Magha.The former is a month of the Seasonal or Ritu-based year or Tropical year and the later is a month of the Nakshatriya year or Sidereal year. In a sidereal year the sun passes through a Nakshatra only once in a Solar year and the Moon passes through a Nakshatra thirteen times duringn the Solar year. It is for this reason the Lunar sidereal month has to be related to the Solar sidereal month. Though the month Magha etc. mentioned in the Mahabharata are Lunar months one must accommodate Solar Magha etc. in the Calendar for the reason given in this paragraph as well as for the reason mentioned in the earlier (ie.first) paragraph. As regards the week days etc. there is no problem in any calendar system. For the purpose of indicating the seasonal months only the Equinoxes and the Solstices may be mentioned in the Luni-Solar calendar. AKK wants to make the Hindu calendar a copy of the Gregorian calendar. The Romans followed a Tropical calendar and the day, following the Winter solstice day, was observed as the birthday of the Sun. In the 4th century BCE when the Winter Solstice fell on the 24th December then the next day ie. 25th December was to be the observed as the birthday of the Sun but King Constantine decrred that day to be observed as the birthday od Jesus Christ. Later on Pope Gregory did correct the Julian calendar but by that time the 25th December became synonymous with Christmas probably wants us to do what Pope Gregory failed to do ie to observe the day after the Winter Solstice day. Sincerely Sunil K. Bhattacharjya --- On Sun, 4/26/09, Hari Malla <harimalla@rocketmai l.com> wrote: Hari Malla <harimalla@rocketmai l.com> Re: [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Various calendars of ancient India ancient_indian_ astrology Sunday, April 26, 2009, 10:30 AM Dear Nairji, My main objection is for the tropical solar months as madhu madhav or tapa tapasya.These are not true.The proof is in vedanga jyotish. If you read vedanga jyotish,the 6th sloka says when the moon and the sun rise together in dhanistha,at that time the five year yuga,month of maagha,tapa sukla pakshya and uttrayan start together. My claim is that the months are not solar but soli-lunar.here if you study the quote, month of maagha means when the lunar month with the fullmoon is on maghaa nakshyatra and tapa sukla pakshya means the tropical soli-lunar month's bright half.There is no room for a solar month here. Even you had quoted in your previous article that in the vedas 'the months come from the moon'.Then where is the scope of madhu madhav or tapa tapasya etc to be tropical solar. If you can find specific quotes that they are solar please give.Otherwise please accept that they are soli-lunar seasonal months without hesitation, as the proof is clear in vedanga jyotish.Those days, the year was solar or soli-lunar but month was not solar.the seasons were soli-lunar.The ayans were also in lunar dates,-like maagha sukla pratipada representing uttaryan.This festival was known as magha snana.We celebrate maagha snana now a days on poush purnima, since it was shifted to it after the sidhanta period.Thank you. Sincerely yours, Hari Malla Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 27, 2009 Report Share Posted April 27, 2009 Dear Bhattacharyaji, Yes sir, this indeed is a very good point you have mentioned. <If however anybody wants to observe the Uttarayana as the Dhanu Sankranti, then nobody should raise any objection to that.> This is the summary of calender reform.This dhanu sankranti for uttaryan and mangsir purnima for magh snana is the best proposal for calaender reform.Thank you for this acceptance. Because S.B. Dixit thinks it would be impossible to adopt new names for festivals and in suspport of him, I have supported to change the name of dhanu sankkranti into makar sanakranti and mangsir punrima as poush purnima so that our cultural names remain as such..Now my final question is as follows: 1.Do you think there is any difficulty in changing the names like this and keep record so that we can do our date keeping of history by nirayan method as before? This way we need not change the wordings in our dharma shaastras where uttarayan is mentioned as makar sankranti. 2.For those who want to do prediction by the nirayan method as before, what if we accept the rashis with the new names for those who want to do so and also let the old rahsi continue for those who want to continue with the old rashis? This freedom given to the phalilt jyotishis should in my view solve the probelm of canlendar reform. Thanking you ,I remain, sincerey yours, Hari Malla Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 8:36:26 AMRe: Re: Various calendars of ancient India Dear Harimallaji, I am sorry to have to say that knowingly or unknowingly you too want to dislodge the Hindu Calendar like AKK has been trying to since long. The only difference is that you now want to combine the lunar months with the Tropical months. The Hindu calendar is basically a Luni-Solar Sidereal Solar calendar and it is a combination of the sidereal Solar calendar and the sidereal Luaar calendar. If you have noticed, the Equinoxes and the Solstices are reported in the Vedic literature in terms of the Nakshatras, in which they occurred in those times. That is how we can find out the date of the Vedic literatures from these data. From the Mahabharata time onward the Rashis came into use and that was around 3100 BCE. In Bhagavata purana (which was narrated to Parikshita, the grandson of Arjuna, about a century after the Mahabharata war) we find mention of the Rashis. Thus the Equinoxes and solstices have been linked to the Nakshatras in the pre-Mahabharata days and later on to the Rashis. The date of Mayasura's Suryasiddhanta is also around that time and it was immediately after the composition os the Bhagavata purana. Vedanga Jyotisha, though composed by the disciple of Lagadhacharya in 2400 BCE (Colebrooke however says it to be in 1400 BCE as he believed that the Aryans came to India only in the 1500 BCE and hence it could not have been earlier than 1400 BCE) followed the earlier Vedic tradition of mentioning Nakshatras and talked about the Uttarayana in terms of Nakshatra and said that it occurred in Dhanistha. Lagadhacharya has been mentioned in the third person. On the other hand the Suryasiddhanta said that when the Sun was in the Makar Rashi there was Uttarayana. Therefore it is only proper that we should mention the Rashi in which the Uttarayana occurs. These days the Uttarayana does not occur in the Makar Rashi any more and hence it is only proper that we don't observe the Makara Sankranti on the Uttarayana day. If however anybody wants to observe the Uttarayana as the Dhanu Sankranti, then nobody should raise any objection to that. Vedanga Jyotisha talks about two types of months such as Tapa and Magha.The former is a month of the Seasonal or Ritu-based year or Tropical year and the later is a month of the Nakshatriya year or Sidereal year. In a sidereal year the sun passes through a Nakshatra only once in a Solar year and the Moon passes through a Nakshatra thirteen times duringn the Solar year. It is for this reason the Lunar sidereal month has to be related to the Solar sidereal month. Though the month Magha etc. mentioned in the Mahabharata are Lunar months one must accommodate Solar Magha etc. in the Calendar for the reason given in this paragraph as well as for the reason mentioned in the earlier (ie.first) paragraph. As regards the week days etc. there is no problem in any calendar system. For the purpose of indicating the seasonal months only the Equinoxes and the Solstices may be mentioned in the Luni-Solar calendar. AKK wants to make the Hindu calendar a copy of the Gregorian calendar. The Romans followed a Tropical calendar and the day, following the Winter solstice day, was observed as the birthday of the Sun.. In the 4th century BCE when the Winter Solstice fell on the 24th December then the next day ie. 25th December was to be the observed as the birthday of the Sun but King Constantine decrred that day to be observed as the birthday od Jesus Christ. Later on Pope Gregory did correct the Julian calendar but by that time the 25th December became synonymous with Christmas probably wants us to do what Pope Gregory failed to do ie to observe the day after the Winter Solstice day. Sincerely Sunil K. Bhattacharjya --- On Sun, 4/26/09, Hari Malla <harimalla@rocketmai l.com> wrote: Hari Malla <harimalla@rocketmai l.com>Re: [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Various calendars of ancient Indiaancient_indian_ astrologySunday, April 26, 2009, 10:30 AM Dear Nairji, My main objection is for the tropical solar months as madhu madhav or tapa tapasya.These are not true.The proof is in vedanga jyotish. If you read vedanga jyotish,the 6th sloka says when the moon and the sun rise together in dhanistha,at that time the five year yuga,month of maagha,tapa sukla pakshya and uttrayan start together. My claim is that the months are not solar but soli-lunar.here if you study the quote, month of maagha means when the lunar month with the fullmoon is on maghaa nakshyatra and tapa sukla pakshya means the tropical soli-lunar month's bright half.There is no room for a solar month here. Even you had quoted in your previous article that in the vedas 'the months come from the moon'.Then where is the scope of madhu madhav or tapa tapasya etc to be tropical solar. If you can find specific quotes that they are solar please give.Otherwise please accept that they are soli-lunar seasonal months without hesitation, as the proof is clear in vedanga jyotish.Those days, the year was solar or soli-lunar but month was not solar.the seasons were soli-lunar.The ayans were also in lunar dates,-like maagha sukla pratipada representing uttaryan.This festival was known as magha snana.We celebrate maagha snana now a days on poush purnima, since it was shifted to it after the sidhanta period.Thank you. Sincerely yours, Hari Malla Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 27, 2009 Report Share Posted April 27, 2009 Dear Harimallaji, It is nonsense and rather criminal to think of changing the names of the real things and give some fictitious names to them. That will amount to cheating. The future generations would not excuse the perpetrators of such crimes. I did not give the advice that you change the name of the present day Uttarayana to Dhanu Sankranti. If at all it is considered to be a life and death question by any persdn then that person can celebrate the Uttarayana day in the Dhanu Rashi but he can under no circumstances give a false name to it . Makar Sankranti cannot be observed in the Dhanu Rashi. So my advice will be to leave the Sankranti business alone. Dixit probably had enough of common sense to leave the issue at that. In the Vedic times the Sankranti was not observed. It became only a Lokachara to observe the Makar sankranti when the Winter Solstice occurred in the Makar Rashi and thereafter. One must have common sense and leave the celebration of the Uttarayana day alone as there is no mentuion of it in the Vedic literature. Heaven will not fall if you do not observe the Uttarayana day. If one is very keen on observing the Uttarayana day then he can join the Christmas parties. Thanks Sunil K. Bhattacharjya --- On Sun, 4/26/09, Hari Malla <harimalla wrote: Hari Malla <harimalla Re:Various calendars of ancient India Cc: "AKKaul Kaul" <HinduCalendar >Sunday, April 26, 2009, 9:51 PM Dear Bhattacharyaji, Yes sir, this indeed is a very good point you have mentioned. <If however anybody wants to observe the Uttarayana as the Dhanu Sankranti, then nobody should raise any objection to that.> This is the summary of calender reform.This dhanu sankranti for uttaryan and mangsir purnima for magh snana is the best proposal for calaender reform.Thank you for this acceptance. Because S.B. Dixit thinks it would be impossible to adopt new names for festivals and in suspport of him, I have supported to change the name of dhanu sankkranti into makar sanakranti and mangsir punrima as poush purnima so that our cultural names remain as such..Now my final question is as follows: 1.Do you think there is any difficulty in changing the names like this and keep record so that we can do our date keeping of history by nirayan method as before? This way we need not change the wordings in our dharma shaastras where uttarayan is mentioned as makar sankranti. 2.For those who want to do prediction by the nirayan method as before, what if we accept the rashis with the new names for those who want to do so and also let the old rahsi continue for those who want to continue with the old rashis? This freedom given to the phalilt jyotishis should in my view solve the probelm of canlendar reform. Thanking you ,I remain, sincerey yours, Hari Malla Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya @>ancient_indian_ astrologyMonday, April 27, 2009 8:36:26 AMRe: [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Various calendars of ancient India Dear Harimallaji, I am sorry to have to say that knowingly or unknowingly you too want to dislodge the Hindu Calendar like AKK has been trying to since long. The only difference is that you now want to combine the lunar months with the Tropical months. The Hindu calendar is basically a Luni-Solar Sidereal Solar calendar and it is a combination of the sidereal Solar calendar and the sidereal Luaar calendar. If you have noticed, the Equinoxes and the Solstices are reported in the Vedic literature in terms of the Nakshatras, in which they occurred in those times. That is how we can find out the date of the Vedic literatures from these data. From the Mahabharata time onward the Rashis came into use and that was around 3100 BCE. In Bhagavata purana (which was narrated to Parikshita, the grandson of Arjuna, about a century after the Mahabharata war) we find mention of the Rashis. Thus the Equinoxes and solstices have been linked to the Nakshatras in the pre-Mahabharata days and later on to the Rashis. The date of Mayasura's Suryasiddhanta is also around that time and it was immediately after the composition os the Bhagavata purana. Vedanga Jyotisha, though composed by the disciple of Lagadhacharya in 2400 BCE (Colebrooke however says it to be in 1400 BCE as he believed that the Aryans came to India only in the 1500 BCE and hence it could not have been earlier than 1400 BCE) followed the earlier Vedic tradition of mentioning Nakshatras and talked about the Uttarayana in terms of Nakshatra and said that it occurred in Dhanistha. Lagadhacharya has been mentioned in the third person. On the other hand the Suryasiddhanta said that when the Sun was in the Makar Rashi there was Uttarayana. Therefore it is only proper that we should mention the Rashi in which the Uttarayana occurs. These days the Uttarayana does not occur in the Makar Rashi any more and hence it is only proper that we don't observe the Makara Sankranti on the Uttarayana day. If however anybody wants to observe the Uttarayana as the Dhanu Sankranti, then nobody should raise any objection to that. Vedanga Jyotisha talks about two types of months such as Tapa and Magha.The former is a month of the Seasonal or Ritu-based year or Tropical year and the later is a month of the Nakshatriya year or Sidereal year. In a sidereal year the sun passes through a Nakshatra only once in a Solar year and the Moon passes through a Nakshatra thirteen times duringn the Solar year. It is for this reason the Lunar sidereal month has to be related to the Solar sidereal month. Though the month Magha etc. mentioned in the Mahabharata are Lunar months one must accommodate Solar Magha etc. in the Calendar for the reason given in this paragraph as well as for the reason mentioned in the earlier (ie.first) paragraph. As regards the week days etc. there is no problem in any calendar system. For the purpose of indicating the seasonal months only the Equinoxes and the Solstices may be mentioned in the Luni-Solar calendar. AKK wants to make the Hindu calendar a copy of the Gregorian calendar. The Romans followed a Tropical calendar and the day, following the Winter solstice day, was observed as the birthday of the Sun.. In the 4th century CE when the Winter Solstice fell on the 24th December then the next day ie. 25th December was to be the observed as the birthday of the Sun but King Constantine decrred that day to be observed as the birthday od Jesus Christ. Later on Pope Gregory did correct the Julian calendar but by that time the 25th December became synonymous with Christmas probably wants us to do what Pope Gregory failed to do ie to observe the day after the Winter Solstice day. Sincerely Sunil K. Bhattacharjya --- On Sun, 4/26/09, Hari Malla <harimalla@rocketmai l.com> wrote: Hari Malla <harimalla@rocketmai l.com>Re: [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Various calendars of ancient Indiaancient_indian_ astrologySunday, April 26, 2009, 10:30 AM Dear Nairji, My main objection is for the tropical solar months as madhu madhav or tapa tapasya.These are not true.The proof is in vedanga jyotish. If you read vedanga jyotish,the 6th sloka says when the moon and the sun rise together in dhanistha,at that time the five year yuga,month of maagha,tapa sukla pakshya and uttrayan start together. My claim is that the months are not solar but soli-lunar.here if you study the quote, month of maagha means when the lunar month with the fullmoon is on maghaa nakshyatra and tapa sukla pakshya means the tropical soli-lunar month's bright half.There is no room for a solar month here. Even you had quoted in your previous article that in the vedas 'the months come from the moon'.Then where is the scope of madhu madhav or tapa tapasya etc to be tropical solar. If you can find specific quotes that they are solar please give.Otherwise please accept that they are soli-lunar seasonal months without hesitation, as the proof is clear in vedanga jyotish.Those days, the year was solar or soli-lunar but month was not solar.the seasons were soli-lunar.The ayans were also in lunar dates,-like maagha sukla pratipada representing uttaryan.This festival was known as magha snana.We celebrate maagha snana now a days on poush purnima, since it was shifted to it after the sidhanta period.Thank you. Sincerely yours, Hari Malla Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 27, 2009 Report Share Posted April 27, 2009 Dear Sunil Bhattacharjya ji, //Vedanga Jyotisha talks about two types of months such as Tapa and Magha.// Vedic literature speaks about 5 types of named Months and three types of unnamed months and not just two. Tapa, Magha, Mesha, [guess what the other two are out of the above 5 mentioned]. The whole confusion about these month stuff and what they mean seems to have originated from a single simple Taitireeya Brahmnama quote. I will try to provide a detailed write-up on various types of Months used by Vedic literature in detail - to complement the basic understanding imparted by the beautiful post on various ancient indian calendars by Sunil Nair ji.Love and regards,Sreenadh , Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya wrote:>> Dear Harimallaji,> > I am sorry to have to say that knowingly or unknowingly you too want to dislodge the Hindu Calendar like AKK has been trying to since long. The only difference is that you now want to combine the lunar months with the Tropical months. The Hindu calendar is basically a Luni-Solar Sidereal Solar calendar and it is a combination of the sidereal Solar calendar and the sidereal Luaar calendar. > > If you have noticed, the Equinoxes and the Solstices are reported in the Vedic literature in terms of the Nakshatras, in which they occurred in those times. That is how we can find out the date of the Vedic literatures from these data. From the Mahabharata time onward the Rashis came into use and that was around 3100 BCE. In Bhagavata purana (which was narrated to Parikshita, the grandson of Arjuna, about a century after the Mahabharata war) we find mention of the Rashis. Thus the Equinoxes and solstices have been linked to the Nakshatras in the pre-Mahabharata days and later on to the Rashis. The date of Mayasura's Suryasiddhanta is also around that time and it was immediately after the composition os the Bhagavata purana. Vedanga Jyotisha, though composed by the disciple of Lagadhacharya in 2400 BCE (Colebrooke however says it to be in 1400 BCE as he believed that the Aryans came to India only in the 1500 BCE and hence it could not have> been earlier than 1400 BCE) followed the earlier Vedic tradition of mentioning Nakshatras and talked about the Uttarayana in terms of Nakshatra and said that it occurred in Dhanistha. Lagadhacharya has been mentioned in the third person. On the other hand the Suryasiddhanta said that when the Sun was in the Makar Rashi there was Uttarayana. Therefore it is only proper that we should mention the Rashi in which the Uttarayana occurs. These days the Uttarayana does not occur in the Makar Rashi any more and hence it is only proper that we don't observe the Makara Sankranti on the Uttarayana day. If however anybody wants to observe the Uttarayana as the Dhanu Sankranti, then nobody should raise any objection to that.> > Vedanga Jyotisha talks about two types of months such as Tapa and Magha.The former is a month of the Seasonal or Ritu-based year or Tropical year and the later is a month of the Nakshatriya year or Sidereal year. In a sidereal year the sun passes through a Nakshatra only once in a Solar year and the Moon passes through a Nakshatra thirteen times duringn the Solar year. It is for this reason the Lunar sidereal month has to be related to the Solar sidereal month. Though the month Magha etc. mentioned in the Mahabharata are Lunar months one must accommodate Solar Magha etc. in the Calendar for the reason given in this paragraph as well as for the reason mentioned in the earlier (ie.first) paragraph. As regards the week days etc. there is no problem in any calendar system. For the purpose of indicating the seasonal months only the Equinoxes and the Solstices may be mentioned in the Luni-Solar calendar. > > AKK wants to make the Hindu calendar a copy of the Gregorian calendar. The Romans followed a Tropical calendar and the day, following the Winter solstice day, was observed as the birthday of the Sun. In the 4th century BCE when the Winter Solstice fell on the 24th December then the next day ie. 25th December was to be the observed as the birthday of the Sun but King Constantine decrred that day to be observed as the birthday od Jesus Christ. Later on Pope Gregory did correct the Julian calendar but by that time the 25th December became synonymous with Christmas probably wants us to do what Pope Gregory failed to do ie to observe the day after the Winter Solstice day.> > Sincerely> > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 27, 2009 Report Share Posted April 27, 2009 Dear Sreenadhji, This is not where you do guesswork! By putting Mesh in your list of months of Vedanga jyotish, you are making really wild guess work.Sorry this is not literature either,You must be more serious in what you say. It is not as easy as to joke with others.thanking you i remain, sincerely yours, Hari Malla Sreenadh <sreesog Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 5:57:36 PM Re: Various calendars of ancient India Dear Sunil Bhattacharjya ji, //Vedanga Jyotisha talks about two types of months such as Tapa and Magha.// Vedic literature speaks about 5 types of named Months and three types of unnamed months and not just two. Tapa, Magha, Mesha, [guess what the other two are out of the above 5 mentioned]. The whole confusion about these month stuff and what they mean seems to have originated from a single simple Taitireeya Brahmnama quote. I will try to provide a detailed write-up on various types of Months used by Vedic literature in detail - to complement the basic understanding imparted by the beautiful post on various ancient indian calendars by Sunil Nair ji.Love and regards,Sreenadhancient_indian_ astrology, Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya wrote:>> Dear Harimallaji,> > I am sorry to have to say that knowingly or unknowingly you too want to dislodge the Hindu Calendar like AKK has been trying to since long. The only difference is that you now want to combine the lunar months with the Tropical months. The Hindu calendar is basically a Luni-Solar Sidereal Solar calendar and it is a combination of the sidereal Solar calendar and the sidereal Luaar calendar. > > If you have noticed, the Equinoxes and the Solstices are reported in the Vedic literature in terms of the Nakshatras, in which they occurred in those times. That is how we can find out the date of the Vedic literatures from these data. From the Mahabharata time onward the Rashis came into use and that was around 3100 BCE. In Bhagavata purana (which was narrated to Parikshita, the grandson of Arjuna, about a century after the Mahabharata war) we find mention of the Rashis. Thus the Equinoxes and solstices have been linked to the Nakshatras in the pre-Mahabharata days and later on to the Rashis. The date of Mayasura's Suryasiddhanta is also around that time and it was immediately after the composition os the Bhagavata purana. Vedanga Jyotisha, though composed by the disciple of Lagadhacharya in 2400 BCE (Colebrooke however says it to be in 1400 BCE as he believed that the Aryans came to India only in the 1500 BCE and hence it could not have> been earlier than 1400 BCE) followed the earlier Vedic tradition of mentioning Nakshatras and talked about the Uttarayana in terms of Nakshatra and said that it occurred in Dhanistha. Lagadhacharya has been mentioned in the third person. On the other hand the Suryasiddhanta said that when the Sun was in the Makar Rashi there was Uttarayana. Therefore it is only proper that we should mention the Rashi in which the Uttarayana occurs. These days the Uttarayana does not occur in the Makar Rashi any more and hence it is only proper that we don't observe the Makara Sankranti on the Uttarayana day. If however anybody wants to observe the Uttarayana as the Dhanu Sankranti, then nobody should raise any objection to that.> > Vedanga Jyotisha talks about two types of months such as Tapa and Magha.The former is a month of the Seasonal or Ritu-based year or Tropical year and the later is a month of the Nakshatriya year or Sidereal year. In a sidereal year the sun passes through a Nakshatra only once in a Solar year and the Moon passes through a Nakshatra thirteen times duringn the Solar year. It is for this reason the Lunar sidereal month has to be related to the Solar sidereal month. Though the month Magha etc. mentioned in the Mahabharata are Lunar months one must accommodate Solar Magha etc. in the Calendar for the reason given in this paragraph as well as for the reason mentioned in the earlier (ie.first) paragraph. As regards the week days etc. there is no problem in any calendar system. For the purpose of indicating the seasonal months only the Equinoxes and the Solstices may be mentioned in the Luni-Solar calendar. > > AKK wants to make the Hindu calendar a copy of the Gregorian calendar. The Romans followed a Tropical calendar and the day, following the Winter solstice day, was observed as the birthday of the Sun. In the 4th century BCE when the Winter Solstice fell on the 24th December then the next day ie. 25th December was to be the observed as the birthday of the Sun but King Constantine decrred that day to be observed as the birthday od Jesus Christ. Later on Pope Gregory did correct the Julian calendar but by that time the 25th December became synonymous with Christmas probably wants us to do what Pope Gregory failed to do ie to observe the day after the Winter Solstice day.> > Sincerely> > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 27, 2009 Report Share Posted April 27, 2009 Dear Hari Malla ji, //This is not where you do guesswork! By putting Mesh in your list of months of Vedanga jyotish// Ha..Ha.. I really know what I speak about when it comes to Vedic Sayana astrologia. What is your list of Vedanga Jyotisha composed of? Rk Jyotisha, Yajur Jyotisha and Atharva Jyotisha texts I belive. Let us hope that you have read them at least once. Proof -1 ---------- Now take the Yajur Vedanga Jyotisha text and read the 5th sloka. It reads as follows - Ye brihaspatina bhuktva MEENAN prabbriti rasayaH te hritaH panchabhiryataH yaH seshaH sa parigrihaH (Yajur Vedanga Jyotisha - sloka 5) [Take the sign countof Jupitor counting from Meena Rasi (Pisces Sign), ...................etc] But as one who can read english, I believe you have noticed the words 'Meenan prabhriti RasayaH' [signs counted from Meena Rasi (Pisces Sign)]. Not enough. Don't worry. Read on. Proof -2 --------- Take the Rk Vedanga Jyotisha text next. Flip the pages to reach the 11th sloka. What it says? Sravishtabhyam gunabhyastan prag-viLAGNAN vinirdiset Suryat masan palabhyastan vidyacchandramasanritun (Rk Vedanga Jyotisha - sloka 11) Hope you have noticed the words - "Prag vilangnan" (From the eastern LAGNA; from the eastern RISING SIGN) Ask any one in this group for a defenition of the word "Lagna" - they will tell you, "Raseenam Udayo Lagna" (The SIGN rising in the east is termed LAGNA). Not enough?! Dont' worry take the copy of Boudhayana Sutra- if you have it with you. Proof -3 ---------- It it you will find a quote that reads - "Meena Meshayor Mesha Vrishabhayor VasantaH" [The Vasanta Ritu could be either in Meena-Mesha or in Mesha-Vrishabha (as per the period of time and geographical location)] Still not enouth?! Proof -4 ---------- Then take the Rigveda itself and try to understand the wordings such as - "Dwadasaram nahi tajjaraya" , "Dwadaya pradhayaschakramekam" etc etc. Still not enough?! Then I am truly compationate. Ok - take the next one. Proof - 5 ----------- Take the copy of Maitreya Sutra and in it you will find a quote as follows - Ravina langhito masaschandraH khyato malipluchaH masadwaye yadapyekaRASIM Sankrametadityastatradyo malipluchaH [if two lunar months falls with a single siderial solar month (Rasi; Sign) - i.e. if Sun TRANSITS two lunar months with in Rasis (Sign) - then that month is known with the special name "Maliplucha" (the unclean month)] Proof - 6 ----------- If even this is not enough then kid like stories are better for you. So take the Puranas and you will find numerous references to Signs in all of them. If didn't have that info as well, then ask Sunil Bhattacharjya or so - he may be kind enough to provide you with some Puranic quotes on Signs from Garuda Purana, Agni Purana or numerous other Puranas to you. Hope this helps. PS-1 : Trying to act Kaul don't become a Foul (read Kaul) By the way, I like jokes and would like to have some fun with the people who don't know the logical basics of what they speak about - even when Vedic calendar is not a subject of my interest. :=) PS-2: 'Mallan' means 'Gusti fighter' in malayalam. So hari malla is 'one who wants to fight against hari' Was that name intentional? Love and regards, Sreenadh , Hari Malla <harimalla wrote:>> Dear Sreenadhji,> This is not where you do guesswork! By putting Mesh in your list of months of Vedanga jyotish, you are making really wild guess work.Sorry this is not literature either,You must be more serious in what you say. It is not as easy as to joke with others.thanking you i remain, sincerely yours,> Hari Malla> ________________________________> Sreenadh sreesog > Monday, April 27, 2009 5:57:36 PM> Re: Various calendars of ancient India> > Dear Sunil Bhattacharjya ji,> //Vedanga Jyotisha talks about two types of months such as Tapa and Magha.//> Vedic literature speaks about 5 types of named Months and three types of unnamed months and not just two. Tapa, Magha, Mesha, [guess what the other two are out of the above 5 mentioned]. The whole confusion about these month stuff and what they mean seems to have originated from a single simple Taitireeya Brahmnama quote. I will try to provide a detailed write-up on various types of Months used by Vedic literature in detail - to complement the basic understanding imparted by the beautiful post on various ancient indian calendars by Sunil Nair ji.> Love and regards,> Sreenadh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 27, 2009 Report Share Posted April 27, 2009 dear Malla ji sreenadh ji was talking in the sense of vedic littearature not vedanga jyothisha the way u feels .U think even vedanga jyothisha is one book which u kaulian constantly refers and that is not the case .Its meaning itself is jyothisha as a part of veda ,so all jyothish reference in veda or allied litterature will b part of it any way tru out vedic litterature there is so many references abt various astrological remarks tho it is contextual and not meant to teach astrology as a sastra as veda 's deals with diffrnt aspect of human life .( it is as if u r asking reference of yoga sastra in kama sastra books tho some stray reference is possible ) Even u kaulian s become now Niradhar ( orphans with none to support u ) and even like a malayalam saying become vazhiyadaram ( means now only street is ur assylam )and simply has nuisance value only .just by quoting one sentence frm one article ( even that shows ur ignorence ) which shud b understood with context than just cut and pasting some lines in the name of simply creating nuisance .language is linear and cannot include full thoughts in one sentence and where as ideas can b many dimentional depends on persons knowledge calibre and esp digested knowledge which u persons lacks . kaul says he read every thing .But no real life exprnce or practical exprence he thinks by using Nasa or JPL crutches he got right to attack every one . if u hav some serious approach i am telling kaul with his 1000 births cannot make one calender the way he approaches and attack all rishies and attack others as if they r culprits tho it is a cover ( he is negeting everything and finaly he himslef fall in ditch ) . now i find in some mails as if u r giving some exemption to astrologers -they can use or they r free to use which ever zodiac .This statemnt itself proovs u r not even an astrologer like u claimed b4 ( i am not going in details ) now it is ur turn ,i was telling kaul without going into much details his way of calender is not possible .but his advantage is he can always twist 20th post ( while in prvt mail or in other grps ) as if where i said it .That is the reason i hav to go ( i am realy indebted to him ) for writing articles to refute his claims he dont prooved any thing neither his greek chaldean paksha claims that indians copied them except some euro cnetric views which suits to his hidden agenda nor he cud proov vedic calender is lunatic the way he claims ( which is sply designed to tell in other way around vedic rishies dont know anything and all we got frm outside ) all the best to u rgrds sunil nair , Hari Malla <harimalla wrote:>> Dear Sreenadhji,> This is not where you do guesswork! By putting Mesh in your list of months of Vedanga jyotish, you are making really wild guess work.Sorry this is not literature either,You must be more serious in what you say. It is not as easy as to joke with others.thanking you i remain, sincerely yours,> Hari Malla> > > > > ________________________________> Sreenadh sreesog > Monday, April 27, 2009 5:57:36 PM> Re: Various calendars of ancient India> > > > > > Dear Sunil Bhattacharjya ji,> //Vedanga Jyotisha talks about two types of months such as Tapa and Magha.//> Vedic literature speaks about 5 types of named Months and three types of unnamed months and not just two. Tapa, Magha, Mesha, [guess what the other two are out of the above 5 mentioned]. The whole confusion about these month stuff and what they mean seems to have originated from a single simple Taitireeya Brahmnama quote. I will try to provide a detailed write-up on various types of Months used by Vedic literature in detail - to complement the basic understanding imparted by the beautiful post on various ancient indian calendars by Sunil Nair ji.> Love and regards,> Sreenadh> > ancient_indian_ astrology, Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya wrote:> >> > Dear Harimallaji,> > > > I am sorry to have to say that knowingly or unknowingly you too want to dislodge the Hindu Calendar like AKK has been trying to since long. The only difference is that you now want to combine the lunar months with the Tropical months. The Hindu calendar is basically a Luni-Solar Sidereal Solar calendar and it is a combination of the sidereal Solar calendar and the sidereal Luaar calendar.. > > > > If you have noticed, the Equinoxes and the Solstices are reported in the Vedic literature in terms of the Nakshatras, in which they occurred in those times. That is how we can find out the date of the Vedic literatures from these data. From the Mahabharata time onward the Rashis came into use and that was around 3100 BCE. In Bhagavata purana (which was narrated to Parikshita, the grandson of Arjuna, about a century after the Mahabharata war) we find mention of the Rashis. Thus the Equinoxes and solstices have been linked to the Nakshatras in the pre-Mahabharata days and later on to the Rashis. The date of Mayasura's Suryasiddhanta is also around that time and it was immediately after the composition os the Bhagavata purana. Vedanga Jyotisha, though composed by the disciple of Lagadhacharya in 2400 BCE (Colebrooke however says it to be in 1400 BCE as he believed that the Aryans came to India only in the 1500 BCE and hence it could not have> > been earlier than 1400 BCE) followed the earlier Vedic tradition of mentioning Nakshatras and talked about the Uttarayana in terms of Nakshatra and said that it occurred in Dhanistha. Lagadhacharya has been mentioned in the third person. On the other hand the Suryasiddhanta said that when the Sun was in the Makar Rashi there was Uttarayana. Therefore it is only proper that we should mention the Rashi in which the Uttarayana occurs. These days the Uttarayana does not occur in the Makar Rashi any more and hence it is only proper that we don't observe the Makara Sankranti on the Uttarayana day. If however anybody wants to observe the Uttarayana as the Dhanu Sankranti, then nobody should raise any objection to that.> > > > Vedanga Jyotisha talks about two types of months such as Tapa and Magha.The former is a month of the Seasonal or Ritu-based year or Tropical year and the later is a month of the Nakshatriya year or Sidereal year. In a sidereal year the sun passes through a Nakshatra only once in a Solar year and the Moon passes through a Nakshatra thirteen times duringn the Solar year. It is for this reason the Lunar sidereal month has to be related to the Solar sidereal month. Though the month Magha etc. mentioned in the Mahabharata are Lunar months one must accommodate Solar Magha etc. in the Calendar for the reason given in this paragraph as well as for the reason mentioned in the earlier (ie.first) paragraph. As regards the week days etc. there is no problem in any calendar system. For the purpose of indicating the seasonal months only the Equinoxes and the Solstices may be mentioned in the Luni-Solar calendar. > > > > AKK wants to make the Hindu calendar a copy of the Gregorian calendar. The Romans followed a Tropical calendar and the day, following the Winter solstice day, was observed as the birthday of the Sun. In the 4th century BCE when the Winter Solstice fell on the 24th December then the next day ie. 25th December was to be the observed as the birthday of the Sun but King Constantine decrred that day to be observed as the birthday od Jesus Christ. Later on Pope Gregory did correct the Julian calendar but by that time the 25th December became synonymous with Christmas probably wants us to do what Pope Gregory failed to do ie to observe the day after the Winter Solstice day.> > > > Sincerely> > > > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 27, 2009 Report Share Posted April 27, 2009 ||Jai Ramakrishna|| Dear Sunilji, Ask Kaul & His Kaulians(or Kaul Yogis??) to give proof for whatever they say--its easy to say than to prove!! The Greeks, the romans---almost all believed that Earth is in the middle & planets like Sun, etc rotated around Sun. In fact in the middle ages & during renaissance Copernicus, Galileo when went out to prove that Earth rotates around the Sun, the biblical followers & the orthodox christians tried to kill those discoverers--however, it was new to them--this discovery, but what abt India? It was already a known fact---if the Kaulians dont know, they may refer to Aryabhatta for their reference. Even zero has a value, when most of the forefather's of Kaulian's race could never go beyond 9....!!!! Such is the pity--now this blind follower of Max Mueller, i.e. AK Kaul is talking of telescopic discoveries from Nasa. He should do a better study before coming for a fight!!People like AK Kaul, Romila Thapar etc, will always refute the fact that Aryans were an integral part of India--so is Sidereal Zodiac & Jyotish Shastra. Kaul's Greek Counterparts learnt it from India. Even his Christian counterparts could never think beyond Christ's birth(which itself is doubted!!!)i.e. why they will always decrease a possible past event by 1000 years. Now I can say that Sunil Nair was just born few years before---but wut is the proof??? It is always said " Proof of the pudding is always in the eating!! " So let these Kaulians bring forward his solid proofs before coming in for a fight!!!We are always like high walls of Jagannath Temple in Puri(Jesus is said to have come to Jagannath Temple to get spiritual training!!!) & as high as Himalayas. If AK Kaul & His clan come forward by 10 meters...we will rise beyond 100 meters. Thank you, . , " sunil nair " <astro_tellerkerala wrote: > > > dear Malla ji > > sreenadh ji was talking in the sense of vedic littearature not vedanga > jyothisha the way u feels .U think even vedanga jyothisha is one book > which u kaulian constantly refers and that is not the case .Its meaning > itself is jyothisha as a part of veda ,so all jyothish reference in veda > or allied litterature will b part of it > > any way tru out vedic litterature there is so many references abt > various astrological remarks tho it is contextual and not meant to teach > astrology as a sastra as veda 's deals with diffrnt aspect of human life > .( it is as if u r asking reference of yoga sastra in kama sastra books > tho some stray reference is possible ) > > Even u kaulian s become now Niradhar ( orphans with none to support u > ) and even like a malayalam saying become vazhiyadaram ( means now > only street is ur assylam )and simply has nuisance value only .just by > quoting one sentence frm one article ( even that shows ur ignorence ) > which shud b understood with context than just cut and pasting some > lines in the name of simply creating nuisance .language is linear and > cannot include full thoughts in one sentence and where as ideas can b > many dimentional depends on persons knowledge calibre and esp digested > knowledge which u persons lacks . > > kaul says he read every thing .But no real life exprnce or practical > exprence > > he thinks by using Nasa or JPL crutches he got right to attack every one > . > > if u hav some serious approach i am telling kaul with his 1000 births > cannot make one calender the way he approaches and attack all rishies > and attack others as if they r culprits tho it is a cover ( he is > negeting everything and finaly he himslef fall in ditch ) . > > > > now i find in some mails as if u r giving some exemption to astrologers > -they can use or they r free to use which ever zodiac .This statemnt > itself proovs u r not even an astrologer like u claimed b4 ( i am not > going in details ) > > > > now it is ur turn ,i was telling kaul without going into much details > his way of calender is not possible .but his advantage is he can always > twist 20th post ( while in prvt mail or in other grps ) as if where i > said it .That is the reason i hav to go ( i am realy indebted to him ) > for writing articles to refute his claims > > > > he dont prooved any thing > > neither his greek chaldean paksha claims that indians copied them except > some euro cnetric views which suits to his hidden agenda > > nor he cud proov vedic calender is lunatic the way he claims ( which is > sply designed to tell in other way around vedic rishies dont know > anything and all we got frm outside ) > > > > all the best to u > > > > rgrds sunil nair > > > > , Hari Malla > <harimalla@> wrote: > > > > Dear Sreenadhji, > > This is not where you do guesswork! By putting Mesh in your list of > months of Vedanga jyotish, you are making really wild guess work.Sorry > this is not literature either,You must be more serious in what you say. > It is not as easy as to joke with others.thanking you i remain, > sincerely yours, > > Hari Malla > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > Sreenadh sreesog@ > > > > Monday, April 27, 2009 5:57:36 PM > > Re: Various calendars of ancient > India > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sunil Bhattacharjya ji, > > //Vedanga Jyotisha talks about two types of months such as Tapa and > Magha.// > > Vedic literature speaks about 5 types of named Months and three > types of unnamed months and not just two. Tapa, Magha, Mesha, [guess > what the other two are out of the above 5 mentioned]. The whole > confusion about these month stuff and what they mean seems to have > originated from a single simple Taitireeya Brahmnama quote. I will try > to provide a detailed write-up on various types of Months used by Vedic > literature in detail - to complement the basic understanding imparted by > the beautiful post on various ancient indian calendars by Sunil Nair ji. > > Love and regards, > > Sreenadh > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, Sunil > Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya wrote: > > > > > > Dear Harimallaji, > > > > > > I am sorry to have to say that knowingly or unknowingly you too want > to dislodge the Hindu Calendar like AKK has been trying to since long. > The only difference is that you now want to combine the lunar months > with the Tropical months. The Hindu calendar is basically a Luni-Solar > Sidereal Solar calendar and it is a combination of the sidereal Solar > calendar and the sidereal Luaar calendar.. > > > > > > If you have noticed, the Equinoxes and the Solstices are reported in > the Vedic literature in terms of the Nakshatras, in which they occurred > in those times. That is how we can find out the date of the Vedic > literatures from these data. From the Mahabharata time onward the > Rashis came into use and that was around 3100 BCE. In Bhagavata purana > (which was narrated to Parikshita, the grandson of Arjuna, about a > century after the Mahabharata war) we find mention of the Rashis. Thus > the Equinoxes and solstices have been linked to the Nakshatras in the > pre-Mahabharata days and later on to the Rashis. The date of Mayasura's > Suryasiddhanta is also around that time and it was immediately after the > composition os the Bhagavata purana. Vedanga Jyotisha, though composed > by the disciple of Lagadhacharya in 2400 BCE (Colebrooke however says it > to be in 1400 BCE as he believed that the Aryans came to India only in > the 1500 BCE and hence it could not have > > > been earlier than 1400 BCE) followed the earlier Vedic tradition of > mentioning Nakshatras and talked about the Uttarayana in terms of > Nakshatra and said that it occurred in Dhanistha. Lagadhacharya has been > mentioned in the third person. On the other hand the Suryasiddhanta said > that when the Sun was in the Makar Rashi there was Uttarayana. > Therefore it is only proper that we should mention the Rashi in which > the Uttarayana occurs. These days the Uttarayana does not occur in the > Makar Rashi any more and hence it is only proper that we don't observe > the Makara Sankranti on the Uttarayana day. If however anybody wants to > observe the Uttarayana as the Dhanu Sankranti, then nobody should raise > any objection to that. > > > > > > Vedanga Jyotisha talks about two types of months such as Tapa and > Magha.The former is a month of the Seasonal or Ritu-based year or > Tropical year and the later is a month of the Nakshatriya year or > Sidereal year. In a sidereal year the sun passes through a Nakshatra > only once in a Solar year and the Moon passes through a Nakshatra > thirteen times duringn the Solar year. It is for this reason the Lunar > sidereal month has to be related to the Solar sidereal month. Though the > month Magha etc. mentioned in the Mahabharata are Lunar months one must > accommodate Solar Magha etc. in the Calendar for the reason given in > this paragraph as well as for the reason mentioned in the earlier > (ie.first) paragraph. As regards the week days etc. there is no problem > in any calendar system. For the purpose of indicating the seasonal > months only the Equinoxes and the Solstices may be mentioned in the > Luni-Solar calendar. > > > > > > AKK wants to make the Hindu calendar a copy of the Gregorian > calendar. The Romans followed a Tropical calendar and the day, following > the Winter solstice day, was observed as the birthday of the Sun. In > the 4th century BCE when the Winter Solstice fell on the 24th December > then the next day ie. 25th December was to be the observed as the > birthday of the Sun but King Constantine decrred that day to be observed > as the birthday od Jesus Christ. Later on Pope Gregory did correct the > Julian calendar but by that time the 25th December became synonymous > with Christmas probably wants us to do what Pope Gregory failed to do ie > to observe the day after the Winter Solstice day. > > > > > > Sincerely > > > > > > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 27, 2009 Report Share Posted April 27, 2009 Dear Sunil Ji, very exhaustive and etailed wite up that can help in analysing various controverisal things in jyotish apparoach and give a balanced outlook. Regards vrkrishnan --- On Mon, 4/27/09, sunil nair <astro_tellerkerala wrote: sunil nair <astro_tellerkerala Various calendars of ancient India Monday, April 27, 2009, 6:00 AM Various calendars of ancient India Written by Sunil Nair Calendar is a system of organizing days for social, religious, commercial, or administrative purposes. This is done by giving names to periods of time – typically for days, weeks, months, and years. The name given to each day is known as a date. Periods in a calendar (such as years and months) are usually, though not necessarily, is synchronized with the cycles of some astronomical phenomenon, such as the cycle of Sun or Moon. Many civilizations and societies have devised a calendar, usually derived from other calendars on which they model their systems, suited to their particular needs. Cycles can be synchronized with periodic phenomena: * Period appearance in the same place in the sky. This is usually referred to by the name – Sidereal. This sidereal re-occurrence could be either in lunar style or in solar style. * * Sidereal Lunar: A sidereal lunar calendar is synchronized to the motion of the Moon against the stellar background. We may expect unique names for each month in such lunar calendars. But even in India, unique names for Lunar months are not known. Lunar days are known by a special name sequence in India, such as – * Nakshatra : Moon's Longitude/27 27 day cycle, since Moon takes 27 and 1/3 days complete a rotation. Asvini, Bharani etc are day names used in this system. Since the reckoning of the movement of Moon is pegged to the fixed stellar background in this case, such lunar calendars is considered as part Sidereal system. * * Sidereal Solar: A sidereal solar calendar is synchronized to the motion of the Sun against the stellar background. A Sidereal Solar calendar dates, indicate the position of the earth on its revolution around the sun (or equivalently the apparent position of the sun moving on the celestial sphere) – or in other words the position of the Sun in ecliptic. If the position of the earth is reckoned with respect to the fixed stars, then the dates indicate the zodiacal constellation near which the sun can be found. Usually in all such sidereal solar calendars, unique names for each month would be present. The Indian names used for such sidereal months are Mesha, Vrishabha etc. Like the sidereal solar months, sidereal Nakshatra position of Sun is also given importance by ancient civilizations. For example - * Njattu vela (Njayar Nila, Sun's position in a Nakshatra): Sun's Longitude/27 A year is composed on 27 Njattu Velas (each Njattu vela corresponding to a Nakshatra and known by the Nakshatra name). One Njattu vela period is usually around 13.52 solar days or better till Sun's position in Nakshatra areas spanning 13 deg. 20 min each. Sidereal calendar is well known and in extensive use in India from Agamic and Vedic past onwards, and is known to have been in use before the period of Hipparchus in ancient Greek as well. * Tropical solar calendar: If the position of the earth (or the sun) is reckoned with respect to the equinox, then the dates indicate the season (and so are synchronized to the declination of the sun). Such a calendar is called a tropical solar calendar. That means, a tropical solar calendar is based on perceived seasonal changes synchronized to the apparent motion of the Sun. Usually in all such solar calendars unique names for each month, and day would be present. (Solar months without month names – is usually near to nil). Solar months were named Isha, Urja, Madhu, Madhava, Tapa, Tapasya etc in India. Solar calendars are usually seasonal in nature, and so the year beginnings are clubbed to the equinoxes and solstices. Solar days are known by a special name sequence originated in India, now popular throughout the world such as – * Vara : Sunday, Monday, Tuesday etc * 7 day cycle, since Earth – represented by Sun moving through ecliptic - takes more than 364 days – actually 365.2425 days – to complete on cycle. * Tropical lunar calendar: There is nothing called a tropical lunar calendar, since the seasons are NOT in any way connected to Moon. As every one knows, a lunar calendar is a calendar based on the movement of Moon alone. But when this movement is treated against the fixed sidereal background it is called `Sidereal Lunar calendar' (mentioned above) and not simply lunar calendar. When this movement is treated in connection with the relative position of Sun, (i.e. lunar phases based calendar) then it is no more simply a lunar calendar, but a `Luni-solar calendar' since Sun is also considered. Therefore lunar phases based calendar is discussed under the luni-solar section. * * A luni-solar calendar is based on a combination of both solar and lunar reckonings. The lunar phases based calendar should be treated as a luni-solar calendar and not as simply lunar alone. A calendar that tries to adjust its luni solar months with pure solar months and year also should be treated as a luni-solar calendar itself. Thus a luni-solar calendar could be of two type – * A lunar phases based calendar * A calendar that tries to adjust its luni solar months with pure solar months or with solar tropical year. * Usually in all such luni-solar calendars unique names for each month would be present. In India the luni-solar months are known by the names such as Chaitra, Vaisakha etc. Luni-solar months may or may not be seasonal in nature. Actually in case of luni-solar months a special effort of `adjusting the year' with solar tropical year, is required to make the luni-solar year seasonal (since by nature luni-solar months are more connected to lunar phases and not with solar seasons). This is how the concept of `Adimasa (extra month) comes into play. In Luni-solar calendars months of moon are fitted in with sidereal or tropical solar year and seasons. And thus the concept of adhi masa (extra month) and khaya masa (deducted month) etc comes into play. These `adjustments' help us to connect lunar months corrected to Sun's movement and seasons. Hence we cannot say no more that `Lunar phases based year is perfectly lunar. Perfect lunar months or year could be seen only in Islam (actually not even in Islam) as they consider only visible phenomena. Luni-solar day reckoning is another unique concept associated with this type of calendars. Luni-solar days are knows by two name sequences in India such as - * * Tithi : (Moon's longitude – Sun's longitude) / 30 * 30 day cycle, since the Moon takes 29 and 1/5 days to complete its waxing and waning phases. The 30 days are divided into two phases such as Sukla paksha (waxing phase) and Krishna paksha (waning phase) having 15 days each. Each day is named such as Prathama (1nd), Dwiteeeya (2nd), Triteeya (3rd) etc upto 15th. The 15th day is termed Paurnami (Full Moon) or Amavasi (No Moon or New Moon) as per Indian system. * * Nityayoga : (Moon's longitude – Sun's longitude) / 27 * 27 day cycle, since Moon takes 27 and 1/3 days complete a rotation. The 27 days are named Vishkambha etc. * There are some other calendars that appear to be synchronized to the motion of Venus, Jupiter, Saturn, some special stars such as Sirius etc. * Venus: Synchronization to Venus appears to occur primarily in civilizations near the Equator. As far as I know - It is not used by Indians; but Mayans and Egyptians had Venus based calendar. * * Jupiter: Indians had a Jupiter based calendar – in which 12 years makes a cycle; but no specific year, month or day naming convention is known to have been in use with this system. * Saturn: As far as I know - no Saturn only calendar system was known to have been in use in India. Jupiter-Saturn: A Jupiter-Saturn based year reckoning system in which a 60 year cycle with unique names for each year provides another calendar which was very popular in India. In this system also even though unique names such as Prabhava, Vibhava etc is available for years, no unique name for months, day etc is available. * * Sirius etc: Such stellar based calendars are known to have been in use by some ancient civilizations such as Egypt. Many scholars tried to associate such phenomenon with Indian calendars and festivals as well. * In India, even such calendars are synchronized with the Sidereal stellar (Rasi or Nakshatra) background as in the case of Jupiterian year and calendar. Or in case of Panchavarsheeya yuga system mentioned in Vedanga Jyotisha. * Arithmetic and astronomical calendars: Most of the calendars used by ancient civilization needs arithmetic and same time based on astronomical phenomenon with a definite set of rules, this approach gives high degree of perfection. Examples of such calendars would be the long count or short count dates used by Mayans or the Ahargana system (based on Kali era) used by ancient Indians. The advantage of such calendars is the ease of calculating when a particular date occurs. The disadvantage is imperfect accuracy over a long period of time. Furthermore, even if the calendar is very accurate, its accuracy diminishes slowly over time, owing to changes in Earth's rotation. This limits the lifetime of an accurate arithmetic calendar to a few thousand years. After then, the rules would need to be modified from observations made since the invention of the calendar. Actually all this happens as said by great astronomical treatise Surya Sidhanta, which states – " time is limitless and formless and we are trying to limit the time to some form for taking a calculation at a given moment required by us " . So whether the approach is scientific, arithmetic, astronomical or seasonal - it is bound to cause errors in long run, if not corrected in due course and then it is festival for those who see fault in everything. The primary practical use of a calendar is to identify days: to be informed about and/or to agree on a future event and to record an event that has happened. Days may be significant for civil, religious or social reasons. For example, a calendar provides a way to determine which days are religious or civil holidays, which days mark the beginning and end of business accounting periods, and which days have legal significance, such as the day taxes are due or a contract expires. Also a calendar may, by identifying a day, provide other useful information about the day such as its season. Calendars are also used to help people manage their personal schedules, time and activities, particularly when individuals have numerous work, school, and family commitments. People frequently use multiple systems, and may keep both a business and family calendar to help prevent them from over committing their time. Calendars are also used as part of a complete timekeeping system: date and time of day together specify a moment in time. Agricultural calendar is developed over 1000s of year observation and experience of farming communities and I would boldly say that agriculture is the mother of all calendars. Njattu vela calendars (still used in state of Kerala) is best example and this author got testimony from many farmers that it works marvelously. Some more info Now I will go through various calendar concepts used by ancients and its uses in day to day life without going much detail about its uses. * Saura year, Savana year both are solar based calendars (Or better, Saura year is tropical solar year, and Savana year is Sidereal solar year) * Chaandra year and Naaksatra year both are moon based calendars. (Or better, Chandra year is luni-solar calendar and Naakshatra year is sidereal lunar year) * Barhaspathya Year: Calendar based on rotation of Jupiter. The planet guru in one sign (Rasi: sidereal 30 degree area) is considered as a year. This is used in religious functions of mass participation or gather of scholars etc [Ancient Kerala festival Maha-Magha or mamangam is an example. This festival later turned into a repeating war between various rulers for supremacy as chakravarhty (king of kings )] It is said that the Aryabhata, a Kerala Jain, presented his system of Parahita Sidhantha in presence of such a crowd of scholars in one such Maha-Makha and got it accepted. The same is true with Parameshwara Acharya who developed Drigganita Sidhanta later. There is reference about Saptarshi calendars in various Puranas and treatises. But scholars are divided over its application. It is used to record major events after happening or recording dynasties and coronation or uprising of new kingdoms. The Saptarshi Calendar is based on movements of stars called Saptarshis (7 sages) or Sapta-Rkshas (7 stars). Those Saptarshi are named: 1. Visvamitra: Dubhe (Dubb, Ak): Bear, Alpha Ursæ Majoris. 2. Jamadagni Merak (Mirak): Loins, Beta Ursæ Majoris. 3. Bharadvaja Phad (Phecda; Phekda; Phegda; Phekha; Phacd): Thigh, Gamma Ursæ Majoris. 4. Gautama Megrez (Kaffa): Insertion-point (of the bear's tail), Delta Ursæ Majoris. 5. Atri Alioth (Aliath): Goat, Epsilon Ursæ Majoris. 6. Vasistha Mizar (Mizat; Mirza): Wrapping (Loincloth), Zeta Ursæ Majoris. 7. Kasyapa Alkaid (Benetnash, Benetnasch, Elkeid): Chief Daughter of the Bier, Eta Ursæ Majoris. Saptarshi- or The Seven Great Sages gets its name in the Indian Mythology after the sages mentioned above. These sages are supposed to be revolving around Dhruva, the Pole Star. This means that Saptarshis are positioned near to the pole star in the North. They move from east to west around pole star in clockwise direction. Sage Vriddha Garga renounced Rishi and astronomer refers to the stay of Sapta Rishis in 67th yr at the time of transition of Dwarapara - Kaliyugas. There are various references about various events in several Sapta Rishi eras. Soura varsha (tropical solar year) = 365.2425 solar days Savana year (Sidereal year) = 360 degree = 365.25 solar days Naakshtra year (Sidereal lunar year) = 324 Nakshtra days (27 x 12 = 324) Chaandra year (luni-solar year) = 354 solar days (29.5 x 12 = 254) = 360 Tithi Briahspathy year (Jupiterian year) = 361 solar days What ever be the year reckoning system we may use - 1/12th of an year is taken as one month and 1/30th is taken as a day. It is clear that - for ascertaining all this knowledge the abstract concept of zodiac and knowledge of degrees and signs are required. * Savana Dina is calculated from Sunrise to Sunrise which is approximately 60 ghaties. (24 hours). * * Saura Masa (solar month) is suns movement in one Sign or Masa (30 degree span in zodiac), i.e. time taken for Sun's entry and exist. * * Chandra Dina is based on Tithi and month is from one Amavasya to another Amavasya. There was also a system of calculating month from one Paurnami to another Paurnami. * * Luni -solar calendar is used for all kinds of religious festivals. * * Vrata (fasting), Seemantham (a special ceremony when a lady is pregnant), pumsavanam (another ceremony when a lady is pregnant. It is said that during this ceremony the use of some special Ayurvedic herbs can even change the sex of foetus especially for getting male kids. Now the technique is lost with time and simple ceremony is conducted). All these festivals are supposed to do following Savana calendar. * * Choulam (Cutting hair for the first time for the baby), Upanayanam (Initiation) , rajyabhisekham (crowning of king; coronation), marriages, karnadedham, sastra bandhanam (first acceptance of sword from a guru or a king), go-danam (donating cow to others), wearing of new ornaments or dresses etc are mainly based on Solar calendar and Nakshatra calendar. * * Coming sidereal Nakshatra considerations - For go-danam (donating cow) janma nakshtra is avoided; for first union of couples (if they are taking a muhurta) Janma nakshtra of both is avoided; for marriage, the Nakshatra of bride groom should be avoided and ultimate importance is given to brides star and further considerations; for anna-prasha (first food giving ceremony for the baby) and treating of diseases or giving medicines etc moon is important and its power is also considered along with other factors; for all kind of religious celebrations luni - solar calendar is used as months considered are usually luni-solar [As contributing factors, luni-solar months such as Chaitra, Vaisakha etc or sidereal solar such as Mesha, Vrishabha etc and Nakshtras which themselves are sidereal in nature, Tithi which is luni-solar in nature are all considered] * * Jupiterian calendars are used for festivals which happen after certain number of years especially which repeats after every 12 yrs (one Vyazhavatta, 1 Jupiterian period). Ancient Kerala festival of scholars known as Maha-magha (Jupiter in Leo in Magha Nakshatra) could be the primary example. Kumbha mela and maha kumbha melas is another example. The Kumbha-mela at the period of Harsha vardhana is recorded by Chinese traveler hu-ang –tsang. In some temples (especially maha kshetras, i.e. big temples) some festivals or some remedial measures such as Deva prasna (temple Prasna) is conducted once in every 12 yrs unless some serious emergency happens. * * Deva pratishta (Installation of idols of deities) and agrayanam, Upanayanam (initiation) , go-danam (donating cow), kalasam (a special temple tantric act done to increase the power of deity) or rajya bishekham (crowning of king) etc are said to b when sun is in Uttarayana. Except Deva Pratishta (Installation of idols of deities), all the above activities can be usually done only on bright half of moon in case of emergency . * * All good events including things related to deities (daiva karyas) are done in Uttarayana and Sukla paksha. Things related to forefathers (Pitru karyas) are conducted in Dakhsinayana and Krishna paksha (black half of moon phase). I hope this elaboration will serve as a base to elaborate your understanding about the various calendars in use in ancient India, their purpose, use and importance – both from the time keeper's (Panchangakaras) perspective and also from the astrological perspective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 27, 2009 Report Share Posted April 27, 2009 dear sreenadh ji great post ,Why u dont show some mercy to kaul now where he will talk rasies not in vedas ?? now he will ask where is rasies in vishnu sahasra nama what will happen to his earnings ?? now ,what explanation can he giv to his masters whom he is acting like HMV ( his masters voice ) pre recorded cassette thanks for this write up rgrds sunil nair , "Sreenadh" <sreesog wrote:>> > Dear Hari Malla ji,> > > > //This is not where you do guesswork! By putting Mesh in your list of> months of Vedanga jyotish//> > Ha..Ha.. I really know what I speak about when it comes to Vedic> Sayana astrologia. What is your list of Vedanga Jyotisha composed of?> Rk Jyotisha, Yajur Jyotisha and Atharva Jyotisha texts I belive. > Let us hope that you have read them at least once. > Proof -1> ----------> Now take the Yajur Vedanga Jyotisha text and read the 5th sloka. It> reads as follows -> Ye brihaspatina bhuktva MEENAN prabbriti rasayaH> te hritaH panchabhiryataH yaH seshaH sa parigrihaH> (Yajur> Vedanga Jyotisha - sloka 5)> [Take the sign countof Jupitor counting from Meena Rasi (Pisces Sign),> ...................etc]> But as one who can read english, I believe you have noticed the words> 'Meenan prabhriti RasayaH' [signs counted from Meena Rasi (Pisces> Sign)]. Not enough. Don't worry. Read on. > Proof -2> ---------> Take the Rk Vedanga Jyotisha text next. Flip the pages to reach the> 11th sloka. What it says?> Sravishtabhyam gunabhyastan prag-viLAGNAN vinirdiset> Suryat masan palabhyastan vidyacchandramasanritun> (Rk> Vedanga Jyotisha - sloka 11)> Hope you have noticed the words - "Prag vilangnan" (From the eastern> LAGNA; from the eastern RISING SIGN) Ask any one in this group for a> defenition of the word "Lagna" - they will tell you, "Raseenam Udayo> Lagna" (The SIGN rising in the east is termed LAGNA). Not enough?!> Dont' worry take the copy of Boudhayana Sutra- if you have it with you.> > Proof -3> ----------> It it you will find a quote that reads - "Meena Meshayor Mesha> Vrishabhayor VasantaH" [The Vasanta Ritu could be either in Meena-Mesha> or in Mesha-Vrishabha (as per the period of time and geographical> location)] Still not enouth?!> > Proof -4> ----------> Then take the Rigveda itself and try to understand the wordings such as> - "Dwadasaram nahi tajjaraya" , "Dwadaya pradhayaschakramekam" etc etc. > Still not enough?! Then I am truly compationate. Ok - take the next> one. > > Proof - 5> -----------> Take the copy of Maitreya Sutra and in it you will find a quote as> follows -> > Ravina langhito masaschandraH khyato malipluchaH> masadwaye yadapyekaRASIM Sankrametadityastatradyo malipluchaH> [if two lunar months falls with a single siderial solar month (Rasi;> Sign) - i.e. if Sun TRANSITS two lunar months with in Rasis (Sign) -> then that month is known with the special name "Maliplucha" (the unclean> month)]> > Proof - 6> -----------> If even this is not enough then kid like stories are better for you.> So take the Puranas and you will find numerous references to Signs in> all of them. If didn't have that info as well, then ask Sunil> Bhattacharjya or so - he may be kind enough to provide you with some> Puranic quotes on Signs from Garuda Purana, Agni Purana or numerous> other Puranas to you. > > Hope this helps. > > PS-1 : Trying to act Kaul don't become a Foul (read Kaul) By the> way, I like jokes and would like to have some fun with the people who> don't know the logical basics of what they speak about - even when> Vedic calendar is not a subject of my interest. :=)> PS-2: 'Mallan' means 'Gusti fighter' in malayalam. So hari malla is> 'one who wants to fight against hari' Was that name intentional? > > > > > > Love and regards,> Sreenadh> > > , Hari Malla> harimalla@ wrote:> >> > Dear Sreenadhji,> > This is not where you do guesswork! By putting Mesh in your list of> months of Vedanga jyotish, you are making really wild guess work.Sorry> this is not literature either,You must be more serious in what you say.> It is not as easy as to joke with others.thanking you i remain,> sincerely yours,> > Hari Malla> > ________________________________> > Sreenadh sreesog@> > > > Monday, April 27, 2009 5:57:36 PM> > Re: Various calendars of ancient> India> >> > Dear Sunil Bhattacharjya ji,> > //Vedanga Jyotisha talks about two types of months such as Tapa and> Magha.//> > Vedic literature speaks about 5 types of named Months and three> types of unnamed months and not just two. Tapa, Magha, Mesha, [guess> what the other two are out of the above 5 mentioned]. The whole> confusion about these month stuff and what they mean seems to have> originated from a single simple Taitireeya Brahmnama quote. I will try> to provide a detailed write-up on various types of Months used by Vedic> literature in detail - to complement the basic understanding imparted by> the beautiful post on various ancient indian calendars by Sunil Nair ji.> > Love and regards,> > Sreenadh> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 27, 2009 Report Share Posted April 27, 2009 Dear Sunil Bhattacharjya ji, I am quoting the various Vedic month names series below - 1) Vedic Months – Series One ChaitraVaisakhaJyeshtaAshadhaSravanaBhadrapadaAsvinaKartikaMargaseershaPaushaMaghaPhalguna 2) Vedic Months – Series Two IshaUrjaSahaSahasyaTapaTapsyaMadhuMadhavaSukraSuchiNabhaNabhasya 3) Vedic Months – Series Three MeshaVrihsbhaMithunaKarkitakaSimhaKanyaTulaVrischikaDhanuMakaraKumbhaMeena 4) Vedic Months – Series Four ArunaArunajaPundareekaViswajitAbhijitArdraPinvamanAnnavanRasavanIravanSarvoshadhaSambhara 5) Vedic Months – Series Five BajaPrasavaApijaKratuVasuAharpnatiMugdhahraVainamsinaAtyayanaBhauvanaBhuvanapatiAdhipalaka Apart from the above mentioned months, Sidereal Nakshatra Months and Nityayoga months were in use, even though no special names were ascribed to them.Love and regards,Sreenadh , "Sreenadh" <sreesog wrote:>> Dear Sunil Bhattacharjya ji,> //Vedanga Jyotisha talks about two types of months such as Tapa and> Magha.//> Vedic literature speaks about 5 types of named Months and three types> of unnamed months and not just two. [] Tapa, Magha, Mesha, [guess> what the other two are [] out of the above 5 mentioned]. The whole> confusion about these month stuff and what they mean seems to have> originated from a single simple Taitireeya Brahmnama quote. I will try> to provide a detailed write-up on various types of Months used by Vedic> literature in detail - to complement the basic understanding imparted by> the beautiful post on various ancient indian calendars by Sunil Nair ji.> Love and regards,> Sreenadh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 Dear Sreenadhji, When I talked about the two types of months in Vedanga Jyotisha I was referring to a verse, quoted recently by Kaulji, in the context of Tapa and Magha in an equinox. Yes, we can say that there are five main types of months, though four are only being used. 1) The 12 months of the Sidereal or Nakshatriya Solar year, where the Sun stays in each of the 12 Rashis or the equal divisions of the sidereal ecliptic for one month. The Sidereal ecleptic has the 27 fixed Nakshatras in it. These months should have been ideally called after the Rashis such as Mesha but such a nomenclature is not popular. The use of the term Rashi began to be used in astrology only. 2) The Panchangas or Calendars name each of the Sidereal months after one of the Yogataras belonging to each of these Rashis. Hence the names such as Margashirsha (when related to the Mrigashira Nakshatra in a Rashi) came to be used in Panchangas. 3) The 12 months of the Tropical or Season-based year where the Sun stays in each of the 12 equal divisions of the Zodiacal belt for one month. The Tropical Zodiacal belt do not have fixed star positions in it. So they have no permanent relation with the Nakshatras. Their naming after the rashis is not correct 4) The Sidereal or Nakshatriya Lunar month, which the Moon requires to return to the same position in the same Nakshatra. 12 such Sidereal lumar months make one Sidereal Lunar year. 5) The Synodic Lunar month is the time gap between two lunations ie. between two New-Moons, when the Sun and the Moon meet. (This is also equivalent to the time between two Full-Moons). 12 such Synodic months make one Synodic Lunar year. Each Synodic month is divided into 30 tithis. Thus we have the following two relations: 5 Sidereal Solar years = 62 Lunations or Synodic months. 2700 Sidereal Solar years = 3030 Sideraeal lunar Years. Awaiting your comments and with regards, Sunil K. Bhattacharjya --- On Mon, 4/27/09, Sreenadh <sreesog wrote: Sreenadh <sreesog Re: Various calendars of ancient India Monday, April 27, 2009, 5:12 AM Dear Sunil Bhattacharjya ji, //Vedanga Jyotisha talks about two types of months such as Tapa and Magha.// Vedic literature speaks about 5 types of named Months and three types of unnamed months and not just two. Tapa, Magha, Mesha, [guess what the other two are out of the above 5 mentioned]. The whole confusion about these month stuff and what they mean seems to have originated from a single simple Taitireeya Brahmnama quote. I will try to provide a detailed write-up on various types of Months used by Vedic literature in detail - to complement the basic understanding imparted by the beautiful post on various ancient indian calendars by Sunil Nair ji. Love and regards, Sreenadh ancient_indian_ astrology, Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya wrote: > > Dear Harimallaji, > > I am sorry to have to say that knowingly or unknowingly you too want to dislodge the Hindu Calendar like AKK has been trying to since long. The only difference is that you now want to combine the lunar months with the Tropical months. The Hindu calendar is basically a Luni-Solar Sidereal Solar calendar and it is a combination of the sidereal Solar calendar and the sidereal Luaar calendar. > > If you have noticed, the Equinoxes and the Solstices are reported in the Vedic literature in terms of the Nakshatras, in which they occurred in those times. That is how we can find out the date of the Vedic literatures from these data. From the Mahabharata time onward the Rashis came into use and that was around 3100 BCE. In Bhagavata purana (which was narrated to Parikshita, the grandson of Arjuna, about a century after the Mahabharata war) we find mention of the Rashis. Thus the Equinoxes and solstices have been linked to the Nakshatras in the pre-Mahabharata days and later on to the Rashis. The date of Mayasura's Suryasiddhanta is also around that time and it was immediately after the composition os the Bhagavata purana. Vedanga Jyotisha, though composed by the disciple of Lagadhacharya in 2400 BCE (Colebrooke however says it to be in 1400 BCE as he believed that the Aryans came to India only in the 1500 BCE and hence it could not have > been earlier than 1400 BCE) followed the earlier Vedic tradition of mentioning Nakshatras and talked about the Uttarayana in terms of Nakshatra and said that it occurred in Dhanistha. Lagadhacharya has been mentioned in the third person. On the other hand the Suryasiddhanta said that when the Sun was in the Makar Rashi there was Uttarayana. Therefore it is only proper that we should mention the Rashi in which the Uttarayana occurs. These days the Uttarayana does not occur in the Makar Rashi any more and hence it is only proper that we don't observe the Makara Sankranti on the Uttarayana day. If however anybody wants to observe the Uttarayana as the Dhanu Sankranti, then nobody should raise any objection to that. > > Vedanga Jyotisha talks about two types of months such as Tapa and Magha.The former is a month of the Seasonal or Ritu-based year or Tropical year and the later is a month of the Nakshatriya year or Sidereal year. In a sidereal year the sun passes through a Nakshatra only once in a Solar year and the Moon passes through a Nakshatra thirteen times duringn the Solar year. It is for this reason the Lunar sidereal month has to be related to the Solar sidereal month. Though the month Magha etc. mentioned in the Mahabharata are Lunar months one must accommodate Solar Magha etc. in the Calendar for the reason given in this paragraph as well as for the reason mentioned in the earlier (ie.first) paragraph. As regards the week days etc. there is no problem in any calendar system. For the purpose of indicating the seasonal months only the Equinoxes and the Solstices may be mentioned in the Luni-Solar calendar. > > AKK wants to make the Hindu calendar a copy of the Gregorian calendar. The Romans followed a Tropical calendar and the day, following the Winter solstice day, was observed as the birthday of the Sun. In the 4th century BCE when the Winter Solstice fell on the 24th December then the next day ie. 25th December was to be the observed as the birthday of the Sun but King Constantine decrred that day to be observed as the birthday od Jesus Christ. Later on Pope Gregory did correct the Julian calendar but by that time the 25th December became synonymous with Christmas probably wants us to do what Pope Gregory failed to do ie to observe the day after the Winter Solstice day. > > Sincerely > > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 Dear Sunil Bhattacharjya ji, I have given the list of Vedic months I was mentioning in the following mail: /message/19843Regards,Sreenadh , Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya wrote:>> Dear Sreenadhji,> > When I talked about the two types of months in Vedanga Jyotisha I was referring to a verse, quoted recently by Kaulji, in the context of Tapa and Magha in an equinox. > > Yes, we can say that there are five main types of months, though four are only being used. > > 1)> The 12 months of the Sidereal or Nakshatriya Solar year, where the Sun stays in each of the 12 Rashis or the equal divisions of the sidereal ecliptic for one month. The Sidereal ecleptic has the 27 fixed Nakshatras in it. These months should have been ideally called after the Rashis such as Mesha but such a nomenclature is not popular. The use of the term Rashi began to be used in astrology only.> > 2)> The Panchangas or Calendars name each of the Sidereal months after one of the Yogataras belonging to each of these Rashis. Hence the names such as Margashirsha (when related to the Mrigashira Nakshatra in a Rashi) came to be used in Panchangas.> > 3)> The 12 months of the Tropical or Season-based year where the Sun stays in each of the 12 equal divisions of the Zodiacal belt for one month. The Tropical Zodiacal belt do not have fixed star positions in it. So they have no permanent relation with the Nakshatras. Their naming after the rashis is not correct> > 4)> The Sidereal or Nakshatriya Lunar month, which the Moon requires to return to the same position in the same Nakshatra. 12 such Sidereal lumar months make one Sidereal Lunar year.> > 5)> The Synodic Lunar month is the time gap between two lunations ie. between two New-Moons, when the Sun and the Moon meet. (This is also equivalent to the time between two Full-Moons). 12 such Synodic months make one Synodic Lunar year. Each Synodic month is divided into 30 tithis.> > Thus we have the following two relations:> > 5 Sidereal Solar years = 62 Lunations or Synodic months.> > 2700 Sidereal Solar years = 3030 Sideraeal lunar Years.> > Awaiting your comments and with regards,> > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya> > > > --- On Mon, 4/27/09, Sreenadh sreesog wrote: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 2009 Report Share Posted April 28, 2009 Dear Sunilji,Sreenadhji,Gauravji, If you have any respect for your religion,would you like to celebrate the festivals on wrong dates?Dharma shastra says, uttarayan is to be celebrated on makar sankranti and poush purnima.Due to precession, uttarayan has shifted to mangsir purnima from poush purnima.Would you recommend that the masses go on celebrating poush purnima when the uttrayan has shifted to mangsir purnima, with one full month's difference? Does your conscience allow that? This is the simple question we ask.Please be sincere and reply.Thank you, sincerely yours, Hari Malla ----- Forwarded Message ---- <gaurav.ghosh Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 11:38:26 PM Re: Various calendars of ancient India ||Jai Ramakrishna| |Dear Sunilji,Ask Kaul & His Kaulians(or Kaul Yogis??) to give proof for whatever they say--its easy to say than to prove!!The Greeks, the romans---almost all believed that Earth is in the middle & planets like Sun, etc rotated around Sun. In fact in the middle ages & during renaissance Copernicus, Galileo when went out to prove that Earth rotates around the Sun, the biblical followers & the orthodox christians tried to kill those discoverers- -however, it was new to them--this discovery, but what abt India?It was already a known fact---if the Kaulians dont know, they may refer to Aryabhatta for their reference. Even zero has a value, when most of the forefather's of Kaulian's race could never go beyond 9....!!!!Such is the pity--now this blind follower of Max Mueller, i.e. AK Kaul is talking of telescopic discoveries from Nasa. He should do a better study before coming for a fight!!People like AK Kaul, Romila Thapar etc, will always refute the fact that Aryans were an integral part of India--so is Sidereal Zodiac & Jyotish Shastra.Kaul's Greek Counterparts learnt it from India. Even his Christian counterparts could never think beyond Christ's birth(which itself is doubted!!!)i. e. why they will always decrease a possible past event by 1000 years.Now I can say that Sunil Nair was just born few years before---but wut is the proof???It is always said "Proof of the pudding is always in the eating!!"So let these Kaulians bring forward his solid proofs before coming in for a fight!!!We are always like high walls of Jagannath Temple in Puri(Jesus is said to have come to Jagannath Temple to get spiritual training!!!) & as high as Himalayas.If AK Kaul & His clan come forward by 10 meters...we will rise beyond 100 meters.Thank you,.ancient_indian_ astrology, "sunil nair" <astro_tellerkerala wrote:>> > dear Malla ji> > sreenadh ji was talking in the sense of vedic littearature not vedanga> jyothisha the way u feels .U think even vedanga jyothisha is one book> which u kaulian constantly refers and that is not the case .Its meaning> itself is jyothisha as a part of veda ,so all jyothish reference in veda> or allied litterature will b part of it> > any way tru out vedic litterature there is so many references abt> various astrological remarks tho it is contextual and not meant to teach> astrology as a sastra as veda 's deals with diffrnt aspect of human life> .( it is as if u r asking reference of yoga sastra in kama sastra books> tho some stray reference is possible )> > Even u kaulian s become now Niradhar ( orphans with none to support u > ) and even like a malayalam saying become vazhiyadaram ( means now> only street is ur assylam )and simply has nuisance value only .just by> quoting one sentence frm one article ( even that shows ur ignorence )> which shud b understood with context than just cut and pasting some> lines in the name of simply creating nuisance .language is linear and> cannot include full thoughts in one sentence and where as ideas can b> many dimentional depends on persons knowledge calibre and esp digested> knowledge which u persons lacks .> > kaul says he read every thing .But no real life exprnce or practical> exprence> > he thinks by using Nasa or JPL crutches he got right to attack every one> .> > if u hav some serious approach i am telling kaul with his 1000 births> cannot make one calender the way he approaches and attack all rishies> and attack others as if they r culprits tho it is a cover ( he is> negeting everything and finaly he himslef fall in ditch ) .> > > > now i find in some mails as if u r giving some exemption to astrologers> -they can use or they r free to use which ever zodiac .This statemnt> itself proovs u r not even an astrologer like u claimed b4 ( i am not> going in details )> > > > now it is ur turn ,i was telling kaul without going into much details> his way of calender is not possible .but his advantage is he can always> twist 20th post ( while in prvt mail or in other grps ) as if where i > said it .That is the reason i hav to go ( i am realy indebted to him )> for writing articles to refute his claims> > > > he dont prooved any thing> > neither his greek chaldean paksha claims that indians copied them except> some euro cnetric views which suits to his hidden agenda> > nor he cud proov vedic calender is lunatic the way he claims ( which is> sply designed to tell in other way around vedic rishies dont know> anything and all we got frm outside )> > > > all the best to u> > > > rgrds sunil nair> > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, Hari Malla> <harimalla@> wrote:> >> > Dear Sreenadhji,> > This is not where you do guesswork! By putting Mesh in your list of> months of Vedanga jyotish, you are making really wild guess work.Sorry> this is not literature either,You must be more serious in what you say.> It is not as easy as to joke with others.thanking you i remain,> sincerely yours,> > Hari Malla> >> >> >> >> > ____________ _________ _________ __> > Sreenadh sreesog@> > ancient_indian_ astrology> > Monday, April 27, 2009 5:57:36 PM> > [ancient_indian_ astrology] Re: Various calendars of ancient> India> >> >> >> >> >> > Dear Sunil Bhattacharjya ji,> > //Vedanga Jyotisha talks about two types of months such as Tapa and> Magha.//> > Vedic literature speaks about 5 types of named Months and three> types of unnamed months and not just two. Tapa, Magha, Mesha, [guess> what the other two are out of the above 5 mentioned]. The whole> confusion about these month stuff and what they mean seems to have> originated from a single simple Taitireeya Brahmnama quote. I will try> to provide a detailed write-up on various types of Months used by Vedic> literature in detail - to complement the basic understanding imparted by> the beautiful post on various ancient indian calendars by Sunil Nair ji.> > Love and regards,> > Sreenadh> >> > ancient_indian_ astrology, Sunil> Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjy a wrote:> > >> > > Dear Harimallaji,> > >> > > I am sorry to have to say that knowingly or unknowingly you too want> to dislodge the Hindu Calendar like AKK has been trying to since long.> The only difference is that you now want to combine the lunar months> with the Tropical months. The Hindu calendar is basically a Luni-Solar> Sidereal Solar calendar and it is a combination of the sidereal Solar> calendar and the sidereal Luaar calendar..> > >> > > If you have noticed, the Equinoxes and the Solstices are reported in> the Vedic literature in terms of the Nakshatras, in which they occurred> in those times. That is how we can find out the date of the Vedic> literatures from these data. From the Mahabharata time onward the> Rashis came into use and that was around 3100 BCE. In Bhagavata purana> (which was narrated to Parikshita, the grandson of Arjuna, about a> century after the Mahabharata war) we find mention of the Rashis. Thus> the Equinoxes and solstices have been linked to the Nakshatras in the> pre-Mahabharata days and later on to the Rashis. The date of Mayasura's> Suryasiddhanta is also around that time and it was immediately after the> composition os the Bhagavata purana. Vedanga Jyotisha, though composed> by the disciple of Lagadhacharya in 2400 BCE (Colebrooke however says it> to be in 1400 BCE as he believed that the Aryans came to India only in> the 1500 BCE and hence it could not have> > > been earlier than 1400 BCE) followed the earlier Vedic tradition of> mentioning Nakshatras and talked about the Uttarayana in terms of> Nakshatra and said that it occurred in Dhanistha. Lagadhacharya has been> mentioned in the third person. On the other hand the Suryasiddhanta said> that when the Sun was in the Makar Rashi there was Uttarayana. > Therefore it is only proper that we should mention the Rashi in which> the Uttarayana occurs. These days the Uttarayana does not occur in the> Makar Rashi any more and hence it is only proper that we don't observe> the Makara Sankranti on the Uttarayana day. If however anybody wants to> observe the Uttarayana as the Dhanu Sankranti, then nobody should raise> any objection to that.> > >> > > Vedanga Jyotisha talks about two types of months such as Tapa and> Magha.The former is a month of the Seasonal or Ritu-based year or> Tropical year and the later is a month of the Nakshatriya year or> Sidereal year. In a sidereal year the sun passes through a Nakshatra> only once in a Solar year and the Moon passes through a Nakshatra> thirteen times duringn the Solar year. It is for this reason the Lunar> sidereal month has to be related to the Solar sidereal month. Though the> month Magha etc. mentioned in the Mahabharata are Lunar months one must> accommodate Solar Magha etc. in the Calendar for the reason given in> this paragraph as well as for the reason mentioned in the earlier> (ie.first) paragraph. As regards the week days etc. there is no problem> in any calendar system. For the purpose of indicating the seasonal> months only the Equinoxes and the Solstices may be mentioned in the> Luni-Solar calendar.> > >> > > AKK wants to make the Hindu calendar a copy of the Gregorian> calendar. The Romans followed a Tropical calendar and the day, following> the Winter solstice day, was observed as the birthday of the Sun. In> the 4th century BCE when the Winter Solstice fell on the 24th December> then the next day ie. 25th December was to be the observed as the> birthday of the Sun but King Constantine decrred that day to be observed> as the birthday od Jesus Christ. Later on Pope Gregory did correct the> Julian calendar but by that time the 25th December became synonymous> with Christmas probably wants us to do what Pope Gregory failed to do ie> to observe the day after the Winter Solstice day.> > >> > > Sincerely> > >> > > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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