Guest guest Posted May 2, 2009 Report Share Posted May 2, 2009 Krishnan Dada, The in-famous accord and death-sentence signed against astrology by 186 (or was it 187?) Nobel Laureates that had created such a stir, in Raman Sir's Astrological Magazine and Editorials was essentially entirely missed (too low to be noticed on the radar!) by not only regular scientists but also the 'great unwashed'! Over the decades (GEESH! That makes me feel so OLD!) -- the great unwashed has really grown in their 'becoming informed', perhaps the slope of their learning is steeper than that of scientists or astrologers, if I may say so purely empirically (based on my observations). Hence, both scientists and astrologers must note and take heart! The consumer is a lot savvyier now than in our grandfather's times! The best regulator of a profession, any profession really is the 'informed-consumer base' and not a bunch of " Netaas " or academicians, both of whom have personal agendas and axes to grind! {PRESENT COMPANY EXCEPTED, OF COURSE!!} That is where, for me Internet comes in! The best and worst way of educating the general public! And it improves better and better as I age. The " run " over 'rise' is getting steeper and steeper just as it must! RR , vattem krishnan <bursar_99 wrote: > > Dear Friends, > Study of Atmospheric Sciences is always a matter of contoroversy whether as a part of science,Engineering and Technology or as an Art. > we have modelling systems with +_ 5% variations.These forecasts that come of conrolled environments of laboratories often seem to fail for one or other reason.Today the most debated issue is ozone depletion and green house effect. > we have regard for Astrology and also follow the principle with due faith.hats off to the seers who with their wits have studied nature and defined solar system.we all know panch bhootas are the base for this universe and there is no denial of this fact even from sciences.Astrology derives strength from the palnetary moment.we also feel mystical why often planets expected movement and beahviour often changes that what they r supposed to do in zig-zzg motions.Also velocities yet times do change.All these variations give no doubt clues for forecast of weather basing our thoughts from Astrological principles. > yet we can not forget Astrology as a science of indictaive nature helps common man.The basic dictum however no body else other than Brahma the super creatot of Universe can only say(with some suthority)what shall happen definetely.So it is not proper for us to make claims which are definetely not justified. we may say as a fraternity of Astrologers we are moving forward to predict weather or for that matter any affair with near accuaracy with our indepth study of palnets and their beahviour.But then to say weather forecast or rains happening with certainity can never be told.if we say so then the context of Kaliyuga and then result of our actions in the present that contribute to the future have no meaning at all.we talk of many hazy things but when it comes to our relevance we only withdraw from the sceen. > it is good that some effort has been made to develop software which can be tried and tested but not making tall claims only defeats our purpose and objectivity.let us continue to make our own individual effort to develop the science of prediction but let us not make hoax calls.Fortunately we are now relieved of the controversies of 1970-80 of ceratin scientists who called Astrology in non sensical terms.Thanx to our great father of modern Astrologer who defeneded Jyotish very scrupulously and won accloades to our field of study.Let's not be therfore be catalysts for unwarranted controversies.we like Astrology to advance and ready to make efforts to take it very close to the society in general for it's benifits. > vrkrishnan > > --- On Sat, 5/2/09, panditarjun2004 <panditarjun2004 wrote: > > panditarjun2004 <panditarjun2004 > Tks Rohini Ji...ts Plz Mr.JhaTks- Suresh/Vinay Ji?Re: Kundalee > > Saturday, May 2, 2009, 8:31 PM > > dear vinayji > > from your mails, it seems you created a system or a way to foretell when and where it is going to rain not for today, or tomorrorw or next week or month or year or decade or century but even billions of years well in advance. > > there is an age old adage that says only god knows when it rains or when one dies. indian met department daily forecasting or the cnn weekly weather forecasting all have limited short term predictive capabilities that too only on rains from clouds. many a time we witness heavy hailstorms where stonesized hails suddenly come and spoiling the entire produce of a filed cultivated over a season thereby bringing sudden losses to the farmers. such things were never or remotely predicted even by the met department. could you even predict such sudden loss inflicting hailstorms. > > astrology is not such a great superscience which cannot predict with foolproof consistency from a horoscope, inter alia, on the living or dead status of the native or gender of the native. > > since you developed a system using astrology to predict rains with meticulous accuracy, i do not request any rain prediction for future but could you kindly predict one cyclone or typhoon or hurricane which are surely associated with rains that you could foretell. one such natural calamity prediction in advance would make your rain predictive system more accepted and also helps save human lives, god willing. > > similarly, have you also developed a way to predict a tentative date when the next possible tsunami happens so that we keep track of it whether such prediction works even if it happens in a plus or minus range of say one year, because tsunamis come very very rarely. > > with best wishes and blessings > pandit arjun > www.rudraksharemedy .com > > , " Rohiniranjan " <rohini_ranjan@ ...> wrote: > > > > Dear Jha Saheb, > > > > To the best of my knowledge accurate weather patterns and rain data have been kept track of for maybe a lot less than 200 years. How would one verify beyond that period to establish that expected/claimed was concordant with the observed? > > > > RR > > > > , Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ > wrote: > > > > > > foolproof rain forecasting billion of years in advance, which weathermen cannot do even two weeeks in advance ? > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan@ > > > > > > > Saturday, May 2, 2009 11:56:44 PM > > > Tks Rohini Ji...ts Plz Mr.JhaTks- Suresh/Vinay Ji?Re: Kundalee > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No Vinay Jha Ji, > > > > > > I did read that and my question still remains unanswered! If it does not quack, does not waddle and does not have webbed feet, then it cannot be a duck! ;-) > > > > > > RR > > > > > > , Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > > > RR ji, > > > > You read my message in a hurry. I said " But I am not talking of this type of (magical) superscience. I talk of Jyotisha(as generally known) being a superscience (which cannot be discussed on internet because it will take half an hour to show you the proofs on a computer screen, but months for presenting them on the internet). " > > > > > > > > -vj > > > > > > > > ============ == ============ == > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > > Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan@ ...> > > > > > > > > Saturday, May 2, 2009 2:30:29 AM > > > > Tks Rohini Ji...ts Plz Mr.JhaTks- Suresh/Vinay Ji?Re: Kundalee > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Greetings Vinay Jha ji! > > > > > > > > Sorry for the delay in responding -- I only noticed this missive, just now. > > > > > > > > I agree with the 'super nonsense' -- over the years particularly on Internet I have seen a few of those and of course out there in the " real world " Nonsense is the King (or perhaps the Queen?)! > > > > > > > > What you describe, feats such as telling someone bhagya without horoscope, generating birthdata without being told (Yogi Karve and his children are said to be doing that consistently and not just occasionally as you experienced personally) are not unknown and though intriguing, I would not lump them with astrology. Psychic prowess and yogic siddhis have been claimed to be used by several astrologers and more power to them but that is not astrology. > > > > > > > > We should be able to hold them in separate bins and not make a khichdi of it. > > > > > > > > And while magical, uncanny these should not be called super or any science, until such time when their basis and workings are understood. That said, there seems to be a tendency in modern people to consider 'science' as the woolmark of purity. Astrology does not need such crutches that themselves are still evolving. I mean science, of course! > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > , Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Special yogas make super science as well as super nonsense. The super-science portion of Jyotisha cannot be acquired by means of bookish knowledge, which does not mean Guru is not needed. In spiritual matters, a guru shows the way and removes initial obstacles, but does not teach bookish knowledge. > > > > > > > > > > I can show show you concrete evidence of astrology being a super science. But it is not possible on internet. the last verse of Suryasiddhanta is : it is " rahasyam brahma sammitam " . I am not omniscient. There are many facets of astrology in which you must have more knowledge than me, but I also possess something, and that something will invite more abusive attacks if I display them to the undeserving lot. > > > > > > > > > > I can show you proofs of superscience, but I have no such special yoga in my own horoscope (although there are occasions when God uses me as a medium, when I tell exact birthdate of a person without looking at the horoscope, but I cannot do it always, nor do I know how it is done. Perhaps the person in distress deserved such help and God wanted to help). I know persons who have such yogas, they never touched any book of astrology as far as I know, but computed my age just by seeing my face, and the result was exactly same as computed on the basis of Parashara and Jaimini. But I am not talking of this type of superscience. I talk of Jyotisha being a superscience. For it, I need a face to face talk, with my laptop there. If you come to India in future, may I try to show you such evidence ? For instance, foolproof rain forecasting billion of years in advance, which weathermen cannot do even two weeeks in advance ? > > > > > > > > > > -VJ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > > > Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan@ ...> > > > > > > > > > > Thursday, April 30, 2009 5:42:32 AM > > > > > Tks Rohini Ji...ts Plz Mr.JhaTks- Suresh/Vinay Ji?Re: Kundalee > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ ....> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Jyotisha is indeed a super science and special yogas make some persons better jyotishis. But these things cannot be taught. Hence it is advisable for us all to adopt a scientific approach as as far as possible. > > > > > > -vj > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > |||||||||||| ||||||||| ||||||||| ||||||||| ||||||||| > > > > > > > > > > Dear Vinay Jha Ji, > > > > > > > > > > I am sorry but I do not see the connection between: > > > > > <Jyotish ... is a super science...> > > > > > and > > > > > <special yogas make some better jyotishis> > > > > > > > > > > Special yogas make one a better poet, a better priest, a better teacher, a better writer, a better singer, a better crook or con-man, but neither of these, hopefully, particularly the last pursuits di bit make those super-sciences even though special yogas make one one of those! > > > > > > > > > > You also said that these things [=super-science/ jyotish] cannot be taught! Most individuals who may have intense devotion and dedication for jyotish but were devoid of the ?advantage? of GPS (Guru, Parampara, Shradhdhaa=devotion alone) will sigh a sigh of relief that their life and pursuit was not a waste of a lifetime ;-)). Because if these things cannot be taught then all this NOISE and NAGAADAA Vadan of having a Guru and the rest of the nine yards as many make on the internet is perhaps overrated and overplayed! > > > > > > > > > > Being a cautious and older person, I would avoid making such one size fits all statements, as the hindustani term goes, " ...Gaahay begaahay! " . I realize that Jyotish fora have only a minority that speak and understand Hindi or other northern languages, so I suppose the nearest English phrase for Gaahay Begaahay would be 'Willy-nilly! ' > > > > > > > > > > I had a chance to observe children in day-care settings, so we are talking really young and learning children. Some seemed to come almost hard-wired for a highly sophisticated level of motor control, others were obviously gifted at learning, some were sickly, others could roll in dirt day in and day out and never had a sick day off. > > > > > > > > > > As I moved from observing infants to toddlers to children, to young adults to mature adults to older people and even those at the extremes of their age in hospices and senior care centres, what I learned was that that 'variability' is inherent in the HUMAN cohort (and perhaps others animals too), not only in their physical, motor, locomotor, mental, learning and other capabilities but actually is the very reason which makes them not necessary to be fitted into pigeon holes with prescriptions such as some make. > > > > > > > > > > I have seen absolutely NO EVIDENCE that astrology is a super science! I await evidence -- since we are talking SCIENCE! > > > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 3, 2009 Report Share Posted May 3, 2009 RR ji Once you stop doubting before testing, proofs will start showing themselves one by one. Modern weather forecasting techniques are not tested for more than 30 years of past data, because during every 61 years half of the period is so chaotic that no physical method can do anything and weathermen change professions during such spells. We are now nearing the end of a 30 year predictable half cycle of 61 year cycle. If some method fits with all the existing data of two centiries, and also explains all the known major weather events of past centuries and millenia, like major famines, storms, etc, without a single exception, is it not worth testing ?? But who will test it ?? Officers of IMD approve of my forecasts in private and then ask my theory. Physical scientists demand elucidation of method, which will repel them at the very mention of an outdated Suryasiddhanta. Jyotishis examine my method and express their gladness, and then get busy with their own works. I do not cultivate my lands, and gave it to a Sanskrit college. I have no personal loss or gain from good or bad rains. Hence, it is better to leave Suryasiddhanta with Lord Surya, mortals do not need it. -VJ ============= ============== ________________________________ Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan Sunday, May 3, 2009 1:04:28 AM Tks Rohini Ji...ts Plz Mr.JhaTks- Suresh/Vinay Ji?Re: Kundalee Dear Jha Saheb, To the best of my knowledge accurate weather patterns and rain data have been kept track of for maybe a lot less than 200 years. How would one verify beyond that period to establish that expected/claimed was concordant with the observed? RR , Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ ...> wrote: > > foolproof rain forecasting billion of years in advance, which weathermen cannot do even two weeeks in advance ? > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan@ ...> > > Saturday, May 2, 2009 11:56:44 PM > Tks Rohini Ji...ts Plz Mr.JhaTks- Suresh/Vinay Ji?Re: Kundalee > > > > > > No Vinay Jha Ji, > > I did read that and my question still remains unanswered! If it does not quack, does not waddle and does not have webbed feet, then it cannot be a duck! ;-) > > RR > > , Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ ...> wrote: > > > > RR ji, > > You read my message in a hurry. I said " But I am not talking of this type of (magical) superscience. I talk of Jyotisha(as generally known) being a superscience (which cannot be discussed on internet because it will take half an hour to show you the proofs on a computer screen, but months for presenting them on the internet). " > > > > -vj > > > > ============ == ============ == > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan@ ...> > > > > Saturday, May 2, 2009 2:30:29 AM > > Tks Rohini Ji...ts Plz Mr.JhaTks- Suresh/Vinay Ji?Re: Kundalee > > > > > > > > > > > > Greetings Vinay Jha ji! > > > > Sorry for the delay in responding -- I only noticed this missive, just now. > > > > I agree with the 'super nonsense' -- over the years particularly on Internet I have seen a few of those and of course out there in the " real world " Nonsense is the King (or perhaps the Queen?)! > > > > What you describe, feats such as telling someone bhagya without horoscope, generating birthdata without being told (Yogi Karve and his children are said to be doing that consistently and not just occasionally as you experienced personally) are not unknown and though intriguing, I would not lump them with astrology. Psychic prowess and yogic siddhis have been claimed to be used by several astrologers and more power to them but that is not astrology. > > > > We should be able to hold them in separate bins and not make a khichdi of it. > > > > And while magical, uncanny these should not be called super or any science, until such time when their basis and workings are understood. That said, there seems to be a tendency in modern people to consider 'science' as the woolmark of purity. Astrology does not need such crutches that themselves are still evolving. I mean science, of course! > > > > RR > > > > , Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > Special yogas make super science as well as super nonsense. The super-science portion of Jyotisha cannot be acquired by means of bookish knowledge, which does not mean Guru is not needed. In spiritual matters, a guru shows the way and removes initial obstacles, but does not teach bookish knowledge. > > > > > > I can show show you concrete evidence of astrology being a super science. But it is not possible on internet. the last verse of Suryasiddhanta is : it is " rahasyam brahma sammitam " . I am not omniscient. There are many facets of astrology in which you must have more knowledge than me, but I also possess something, and that something will invite more abusive attacks if I display them to the undeserving lot. > > > > > > I can show you proofs of superscience, but I have no such special yoga in my own horoscope (although there are occasions when God uses me as a medium, when I tell exact birthdate of a person without looking at the horoscope, but I cannot do it always, nor do I know how it is done. Perhaps the person in distress deserved such help and God wanted to help). I know persons who have such yogas, they never touched any book of astrology as far as I know, but computed my age just by seeing my face, and the result was exactly same as computed on the basis of Parashara and Jaimini. But I am not talking of this type of superscience. I talk of Jyotisha being a superscience. For it, I need a face to face talk, with my laptop there. If you come to India in future, may I try to show you such evidence ? For instance, foolproof rain forecasting billion of years in advance, which weathermen cannot do even two weeeks in advance ? > > > > > > -VJ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan@ ...> > > > > > > Thursday, April 30, 2009 5:42:32 AM > > > Tks Rohini Ji...ts Plz Mr.JhaTks- Suresh/Vinay Ji?Re: Kundalee > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > > > Jyotisha is indeed a super science and special yogas make some persons better jyotishis. But these things cannot be taught. Hence it is advisable for us all to adopt a scientific approach as as far as possible. > > > > -vj > > > > > > > > > > > |||||||||||| ||||||||| ||||||||| ||||||||| ||||||||| > > > > > > Dear Vinay Jha Ji, > > > > > > I am sorry but I do not see the connection between: > > > <Jyotish ... is a super science...> > > > and > > > <special yogas make some better jyotishis> > > > > > > Special yogas make one a better poet, a better priest, a better teacher, a better writer, a better singer, a better crook or con-man, but neither of these, hopefully, particularly the last pursuits di bit make those super-sciences even though special yogas make one one of those! > > > > > > You also said that these things [=super-science/ jyotish] cannot be taught! Most individuals who may have intense devotion and dedication for jyotish but were devoid of the ?advantage? of GPS (Guru, Parampara, Shradhdhaa=devotion alone) will sigh a sigh of relief that their life and pursuit was not a waste of a lifetime ;-)). Because if these things cannot be taught then all this NOISE and NAGAADAA Vadan of having a Guru and the rest of the nine yards as many make on the internet is perhaps overrated and overplayed! > > > > > > Being a cautious and older person, I would avoid making such one size fits all statements, as the hindustani term goes, " ...Gaahay begaahay! " . I realize that Jyotish fora have only a minority that speak and understand Hindi or other northern languages, so I suppose the nearest English phrase for Gaahay Begaahay would be 'Willy-nilly! ' > > > > > > I had a chance to observe children in day-care settings, so we are talking really young and learning children. Some seemed to come almost hard-wired for a highly sophisticated level of motor control, others were obviously gifted at learning, some were sickly, others could roll in dirt day in and day out and never had a sick day off. > > > > > > As I moved from observing infants to toddlers to children, to young adults to mature adults to older people and even those at the extremes of their age in hospices and senior care centres, what I learned was that that 'variability' is inherent in the HUMAN cohort (and perhaps others animals too), not only in their physical, motor, locomotor, mental, learning and other capabilities but actually is the very reason which makes them not necessary to be fitted into pigeon holes with prescriptions such as some make. > > > > > > I have seen absolutely NO EVIDENCE that astrology is a super science! I await evidence -- since we are talking SCIENCE! > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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