Tks Rohini Ji...ts Plz Mr.JhaTks- Suresh/Vinay Ji?Kundalee

May 3, 2009

Arjun Ji,

I have neither any interest nor any time for raising useless issues. There are

some persons who have no interest in testing my software (I am not pointing at

Krishnan ji) but are very keen on discussing everything with me under the Sun

excepting astrology, which sometimes leads to useless controversies. I am sure

you also have no interest in verifying my " hoax claims " about weather

forecasting. I did not use any uncivil word against Krishnan ji, but the manner

you are holding me guilty for my crime of complaining against being called a

fraud speaks of your partiality. I am not a professional astrologer and I do not

care for votes. But if you have any respect for truth, ask Krishnan ji to test

my " hoax " claims. I did not use any bad word for him.

with best wishes and blessings,

-Vinau Jha

================== ========

________________________________

panditarjun2004 <panditarjun2004

Sunday, May 3, 2009 6:15:44 PM

Tks Rohini Ji...ts Plz Mr.JhaTks- Suresh/Vinay Ji?Re: Kundalee

dear vinayji

kindly do not get personal and take names. vattem krishnanji is a highly learnt

professor with rich experience from various premium government academic

institutes across india including IIT, Delhi. he also learnt astrology from

ICAS and hold two degrees there. criticsing him only makes you less

understanding of a person.

you may kindly remember that when adi sankara visited the holy town kasi and was

in debate with mandan mishra, queries after queries were asked and sankara

replied. to the queries of the wife of mishra, having no answers, sankara

learnt them in a hard tantrik way and then answered those too to her

satisfaction.

please note that when we present something to a forum or a group, onus would be

on us to substantiate and corroborate. if i were you, i would have been more

happier because people are asking queries about what i researched with lot of

time and energy spent and would not tire in answering till the querent is

answered satisfactorily.

this is the spirit we display and expect from others especially researches like

you.

with best wishes and blessings

pandit arjun

www.rudraksharemedy .com

, Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ ...> wrote:

>

> To All :

>

> I had no interest in making any claim at all about weather forecasting.

Rohiniranjan ji said he has seen no proof of Jyotisha being a super science. In

reply, I said I cannot prove it on internet, if he can allow even half an hour

face to face talk, I can show proofs. In return, I have started receiving same

kinds of epithets from Mr Vattem Krishna which I used to receive from some

members of AIA : krishnan ji says my statements as " hoax calls " , " tall claims " ,

etc etc. Mr Krishnan Ji makes his " hats off to the seers who with their wits

have studied nature and defined solar system " , and the topmost seers have

verified my hoax claims to be good and scientific : Click_Here and ClickHere .

Mr Krishnan Ji is making these wild allegations upon me on behalf of the

" fraternity of Astrologers " which has perhaps nominated him to call me a fraud,

but the recognized astrological community of India thinks otherwise : ClickHere

for decision of a recognized

> university after a high court decision to judge my " hoax claims " , and

ClickHere for the list of institutions which do not regard my claims as hoax.

Internet is free for all, and I have even received obscene abuses from " reputed "

astrologers. They have no interest in examining my claims which they declared to

be hoax without testing. But there are heads of departments of Jyotisha in

recognized Sanskrit university who are using my software to make " hoax " weather

forecasts : Click_Here Mr Krishnan if you can spare some of your PRECIOUS time

on reviewing the method which you so sportively spend on abusing me. I do not

believe he will be able to recall from which ancient text this method was

deduced, which he labels as hoax. But predictions made from this method have

been verified by Climate branch of NASA headquarters, among other institutions.

" Hats off to the seers " of physical science, and " heads down of those sages and

their followers like me " who

> wrote foolish treatises or worked upon them!

>

> -VJ

> ============ ==== ============

>

> ____________ _________ _________ __

> vattem krishnan <bursar_99@. ..>

>

> Sunday, May 3, 2009 8:32:48 AM

> Re: Tks Rohini Ji...ts Plz Mr.JhaTks- Suresh/Vinay Ji?Re:

Kundalee

>

> Dear Friends,

> Study of Atmospheric Sciences is always a matter of contoroversy whether as a

part of science,Engineering and Technology or as an Art.

> we have modelling systems with +_ 5% variations.These forecasts that come of

conrolled environments of laboratories often seem to fail for one or other

reason.Today the most debated issue is ozone depletion and green house effect.

> we have regard for Astrology and also follow the principle with due faith.hats

off to the seers who with their wits have studied nature and defined solar

system.we all know panch bhootas are the base for this universe and there is no

denial of this fact even from sciences.Astrology derives strength from the

palnetary moment.we also feel mystical why often planets expected movement and

beahviour often changes that what they r supposed to do in zig-zzg motions.Also

velocities yet times do change.All these variations give no doubt clues for

forecast of weather basing our thoughts from Astrological principles.

> yet we can not forget Astrology as a science of indictaive nature helps common

man.The basic dictum however no body else other than Brahma the super creatot of

Universe can only say(with some suthority)what shall happen definetely.So it is

not proper for us to make claims which are definetely not justified. we may say

as a fraternity of Astrologers we are moving forward to predict weather or for

that matter any affair with near accuaracy with our indepth study of palnets and

their beahviour.But then to say weather forecast or rains happening with

certainity can never be told.if we say so then the context of Kaliyuga and then

result of our actions in the present that contribute to the future have no

meaning at all.we talk of many hazy things but when it comes to our relevance we

only withdraw from the sceen.

> it is good that some effort has been made to develop software which can be

tried and tested but not making tall claims only defeats our purpose and

objectivity. let us continue to make our own individual effort to develop the

science of prediction but let us not make hoax calls.Fortunately we are now

relieved of the controversies of 1970-80 of ceratin scientists who called

Astrology in non sensical terms.Thanx to our great father of modern Astrologer

who defeneded Jyotish very scrupulously and won accloades to our field of

study.Let's not be therfore be catalysts for unwarranted controversies. we like

Astrology to advance and ready to make efforts to take it very close to the

society in general for it's benifits.

> vrkrishnan

>

> --- On Sat, 5/2/09, panditarjun2004 <panditarjun2004@ > wrote:

>

> panditarjun2004 <panditarjun2004@ >

> Tks Rohini Ji...ts Plz Mr.JhaTks- Suresh/Vinay Ji?Re: Kundalee

>

> Saturday, May 2, 2009, 8:31 PM

>

> dear vinayji

>

> from your mails, it seems you created a system or a way to foretell when and

where it is going to rain not for today, or tomorrorw or next week or month or

year or decade or century but even billions of years well in advance.

>

> there is an age old adage that says only god knows when it rains or when one

dies. indian met department daily forecasting or the cnn weekly weather

forecasting all have limited short term predictive capabilities that too only on

rains from clouds. many a time we witness heavy hailstorms where stonesized

hails suddenly come and spoiling the entire produce of a filed cultivated over a

season thereby bringing sudden losses to the farmers. such things were never or

remotely predicted even by the met department. could you even predict such

sudden loss inflicting hailstorms.

>

> astrology is not such a great superscience which cannot predict with foolproof

consistency from a horoscope, inter alia, on the living or dead status of the

native or gender of the native.

>

> since you developed a system using astrology to predict rains with meticulous

accuracy, i do not request any rain prediction for future but could you kindly

predict one cyclone or typhoon or hurricane which are surely associated with

rains that you could foretell. one such natural calamity prediction in advance

would make your rain predictive system more accepted and also helps save human

lives, god willing.

>

> similarly, have you also developed a way to predict a tentative date when the

next possible tsunami happens so that we keep track of it whether such

prediction works even if it happens in a plus or minus range of say one year,

because tsunamis come very very rarely.

>

> with best wishes and blessings

> pandit arjun

> www.rudraksharemedy .com

>

> , " Rohiniranjan " <rohini_ranjan@ ...>

wrote:

> >

> > Dear Jha Saheb,

> >

> > To the best of my knowledge accurate weather patterns and rain data have

been kept track of for maybe a lot less than 200 years. How would one verify

beyond that period to establish that expected/claimed was concordant with the

observed?

> >

> > RR

> >

> > , Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ > wrote:

> > >

> > > foolproof rain forecasting billion of years in advance, which weathermen

cannot do even two weeeks in advance ?

> > >

> > > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > > Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan@ >

> > >

> > > Saturday, May 2, 2009 11:56:44 PM

> > > Tks Rohini Ji...ts Plz Mr.JhaTks- Suresh/Vinay Ji?Re:

Kundalee

> > >

> > > No Vinay Jha Ji,

> > >

> > > I did read that and my question still remains unanswered! If it does not

quack, does not waddle and does not have webbed feet, then it cannot be a duck!

;-)

> > >

> > > RR

> > >

> > > , Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ ...>

wrote:

> > > >

> > > > RR ji,

> > > > You read my message in a hurry. I said " But I am not talking of this

type of (magical) superscience. I talk of Jyotisha(as generally known) being a

superscience (which cannot be discussed on internet because it will take half an

hour to show you the proofs on a computer screen, but months for presenting them

on the internet). "

> > > >

> > > > -vj

> > > >

> > > > ============ == ============ ==

> > > >

> > > > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > > > Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan@ ...>

> > > >

> > > > Saturday, May 2, 2009 2:30:29 AM

> > > > Tks Rohini Ji...ts Plz Mr.JhaTks- Suresh/Vinay Ji?Re:

Kundalee

> > > >

> > > > Greetings Vinay Jha ji!

> > > >

> > > > Sorry for the delay in responding -- I only noticed this missive, just

now.

> > > >

> > > > I agree with the 'super nonsense' -- over the years particularly on

Internet I have seen a few of those and of course out there in the " real world "

Nonsense is the King (or perhaps the Queen?)!

> > > >

> > > > What you describe, feats such as telling someone bhagya without

horoscope, generating birthdata without being told (Yogi Karve and his children

are said to be doing that consistently and not just occasionally as you

experienced personally) are not unknown and though intriguing, I would not lump

them with astrology. Psychic prowess and yogic siddhis have been claimed to be

used by several astrologers and more power to them but that is not astrology.

> > > >

> > > > We should be able to hold them in separate bins and not make a khichdi

of it.

> > > >

> > > > And while magical, uncanny these should not be called super or any

science, until such time when their basis and workings are understood. That

said, there seems to be a tendency in modern people to consider 'science' as the

woolmark of purity. Astrology does not need such crutches that themselves are

still evolving. I mean science, of course!

> > > >

> > > > RR

> > > >

> > > > , Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ ...>

wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Special yogas make super science as well as super nonsense. The

super-science portion of Jyotisha cannot be acquired by means of bookish

knowledge, which does not mean Guru is not needed. In spiritual matters, a guru

shows the way and removes initial obstacles, but does not teach bookish

knowledge.

> > > > >

> > > > > I can show show you concrete evidence of astrology being a super

science. But it is not possible on internet. the last verse of Suryasiddhanta is

: it is " rahasyam brahma sammitam " . I am not omniscient. There are many facets

of astrology in which you must have more knowledge than me, but I also possess

something, and that something will invite more abusive attacks if I display them

to the undeserving lot.

> > > > >

> > > > > I can show you proofs of superscience, but I have no such special yoga

in my own horoscope (although there are occasions when God uses me as a medium,

when I tell exact birthdate of a person without looking at the horoscope, but I

cannot do it always, nor do I know how it is done. Perhaps the person in

distress deserved such help and God wanted to help). I know persons who have

such yogas, they never touched any book of astrology as far as I know, but

computed my age just by seeing my face, and the result was exactly same as

computed on the basis of Parashara and Jaimini. But I am not talking of this

type of superscience. I talk of Jyotisha being a superscience. For it, I need a

face to face talk, with my laptop there. If you come to India in future, may I

try to show you such evidence ? For instance, foolproof rain forecasting billion

of years in advance, which weathermen cannot do even two weeeks in advance ?

> > > > >

> > > > > -VJ

> > > > >

> > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > > > > Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan@ ...>

> > > > >

> > > > > Thursday, April 30, 2009 5:42:32 AM

> > > > > Tks Rohini Ji...ts Plz Mr.JhaTks- Suresh/Vinay Ji?Re:

Kundalee

> > > > >

> > > > > , Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@

....> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Jyotisha is indeed a super science and special yogas make some

persons better jyotishis. But these things cannot be taught. Hence it is

advisable for us all to adopt a scientific approach as as far as possible.

> > > > > > -vj

> > > > > >

> > > > > |||||||||||| ||||||||| ||||||||| ||||||||| |||||||||

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Vinay Jha Ji,

> > > > >

> > > > > I am sorry but I do not see the connection between:

> > > > > <Jyotish ... is a super science...>

> > > > > and

> > > > > <special yogas make some better jyotishis>

> > > > >

> > > > > Special yogas make one a better poet, a better priest, a better

teacher, a better writer, a better singer, a better crook or con-man, but

neither of these, hopefully, particularly the last pursuits di bit make those

super-sciences even though special yogas make one one of those!

> > > > >

> > > > > You also said that these things [=super-science/ jyotish] cannot be

taught! Most individuals who may have intense devotion and dedication for

jyotish but were devoid of the ?advantage? of GPS (Guru, Parampara,

Shradhdhaa=devotion alone) will sigh a sigh of relief that their life and

pursuit was not a waste of a lifetime ;-)). Because if these things cannot be

taught then all this NOISE and NAGAADAA Vadan of having a Guru and the rest of

the nine yards as many make on the internet is perhaps overrated and overplayed!

> > > > >

> > > > > Being a cautious and older person, I would avoid making such one size

fits all statements, as the hindustani term goes, " ...Gaahay begaahay! " . I

realize that Jyotish fora have only a minority that speak and understand Hindi

or other northern languages, so I suppose the nearest English phrase for Gaahay

Begaahay would be 'Willy-nilly! '

> > > > >

> > > > > I had a chance to observe children in day-care settings, so we are

talking really young and learning children. Some seemed to come almost

hard-wired for a highly sophisticated level of motor control, others were

obviously gifted at learning, some were sickly, others could roll in dirt day in

and day out and never had a sick day off.

> > > > >

> > > > > As I moved from observing infants to toddlers to children, to young

adults to mature adults to older people and even those at the extremes of their

age in hospices and senior care centres, what I learned was that that

'variability' is inherent in the HUMAN cohort (and perhaps others animals too),

not only in their physical, motor, locomotor, mental, learning and other

capabilities but actually is the very reason which makes them not necessary to

be fitted into pigeon holes with prescriptions such as some make.

> > > > >

> > > > > I have seen absolutely NO EVIDENCE that astrology is a super science!

I await evidence -- since we are talking SCIENCE!

> > > > >

> > > > > RR

> > > > >

May 3, 2009

In advance, of course! Before the clock starts ticking on May 15, 2009.

I hope we allowed enough time collectively?

Rohiniranjan

, " Rohiniranjan " <rohini_ranjan

wrote:

>

> Actually -- Krishnan Dada, the easiest path would be through this weather

prediction which is immediate, undeniable and scientists generally like quick

and immediate answers, if possible.

>

> All of these multi-fora debates and attacks and increasing paranoia can be put

to rest very readily.

>

> Pick a city, that is prominent and for which weather data are recorded and

presumably accessible via Internet, let us pick Paris, France, for instance? And

leet us propose a period for this scientific experiment to be performed on this

open forum?

>

> Let us have the raw-data, average rainfall per day in Paris, from May 15 to

June 20, 2009? Posted publicly here on THIS forum.

>

> Let the chips fall where they belong!

>

> Or may PEACE prevail, unconditionally -- there is a lot of serious work to be

done, notwithstanding!

>

> It is very simple and has been simple all along! Sadly there were no *takers*.

We have one, now...!

>

> Rohiniranjan

>

> , vattem krishnan <bursar_99@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Friends,

> > It is right to concentrate one and only one issue of surya siddhanta and the

development of software kundalee.All other issues of Super Sience and weather

forecast for next hundred years and related issue may suggest level of

confidence held in Astrology.But we need also to know that we are into such a

vast subject hwere ever other moment subjectivity creeps in unfortunately.

> > when one is deeply involved all other write up and interventions are not

only difficult to understand but gets personalised.Every on of us are eagerly

waiting for the successful nad acceptable version of kundalee software.More than

this,to read any thing in missives is to deviate from the proposed objectives

and goals to reach.It is a good suggestion made by Shri Rohini Ji

> > vrkrishnan

> >

> > --- On Sun, 5/3/09, Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan@> wrote:

> >

> > Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan@>

> > Tks Rohini Ji...ts Plz Mr.JhaTks- Suresh/Vinay Ji?Re: Kundalee

> >

> > Sunday, May 3, 2009, 12:48 PM

> >

> > Dear Vinay ji,

> >

> > Since my name got mentioned a few times in this thread of discussions, let

me put my two cents across. I think 'hoax' is a rather strong

over-interpretation on your part to what in scientific circles (and not

exclusively science -- alone!) would be a normal part of examining new

information. The discussion has been meandering and jumping between on the one

hand SS-based Kundalee as a better alternative for the currently used software

and on the other hand the supremacy of weather prediction using SS calculations.

Then into this comes this matter of what is super-science and what is not.

Somewhere in that melange is often voiced the personal feeling of being hurt and

if I may use the term, the feeling of being marginalized as you have expressed

from time to time. The picture gets even more complicated due to technical

issues, whether it is the coding or the user's systems and viruses and file

systems and what not. Please step back from all this and put

> > yourself in a bystander's shoes. It is not that people have not been coming

forth and sincerely trying your offering and getting frustrated because they are

told that it is their computer or system that is at fault. And then within a few

days you come up with a newer version. This is all very intriguing or at least

confusing. Why the need for so many versions if the program is stable and I am

not talking about all systems but just plain and simple Windows XP, forget about

vista and windows 7 or whatever.

> >

> > Being a labour of love, that Kundalee is obviously for you, I can understand

your feeling hurt or cornered when a question is asked but I am sure even you

realize that not everyone is trying to gang up on you. It is quite possible that

you may take this the wrong way and think that I am being antagonistic towards

you or your software, both of which are simply not true let me assure you Sir.

> >

> > Without mincing words, there is obviously some interest in your mind to get

your software tested and improved, otherwise why would you remind us all the

urgency and usefulness in testing the software. Perhaps that should be the

focus, and I am not being unctorial -- primarily because I may not be old enough

or wise enough to serve that role!

> >

> > If we truly want Jyotish to be treated as Science, then like any other

scientist, we should be prepared to demonstrate and demonstrate in large volumes

of evidence and to field questions without getting upset, even when the

questions or statements may be rightly or wrongly seem to be sarcastic or

expressing disbelief. I fully understand that you would find it more efficient

to show the evidence in person and if godwilling I am in the neighbourhood, I

will try to visit you at your convenience obviously, but then perhaps we should

park that discussion (weather prediction and jyotish as a superscience) so that

we all do not keep spinning our wheels without moving even an inch.

> >

> > You may feel that I am wasting my time in writing these long missives, but

something within tells me that I am not...! It is all 'pensionable' time as far

as the Soul is concerned ;-)

> >

> > Best wishes and regards, as always

> >

> > Rohiniranjan

> >

> > , Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ ...>

wrote:

> > >

> > > Arjun Ji,

> > > I have neither any interest nor any time for raising useless issues. There

are some persons who have no interest in testing my software (I am not pointing

at Krishnan ji) but are very keen on discussing everything with me under the Sun

excepting astrology, which sometimes leads to useless controversies. I am sure

you also have no interest in verifying my " hoax claims " about weather

forecasting. I did not use any uncivil word against Krishnan ji, but the manner

you are holding me guilty for my crime of complaining against being called a

fraud speaks of your partiality. I am not a professional astrologer and I do not

care for votes. But if you have any respect for truth, ask Krishnan ji to test

my " hoax " claims. I did not use any bad word for him.

> > >

> > > with best wishes and blessings,

> > > -Vinau Jha

> > >

> > > ============ ====== ========

> > >

> > > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > > panditarjun2004 <panditarjun2004@ ...>

> > >

> > > Sunday, May 3, 2009 6:15:44 PM

> > > Tks Rohini Ji...ts Plz Mr.JhaTks- Suresh/Vinay Ji?Re:

Kundalee

> > >

> > > dear vinayji

> > >

> > > kindly do not get personal and take names. vattem krishnanji is a highly

learnt professor with rich experience from various premium government academic

institutes across india including IIT, Delhi. he also learnt astrology from ICAS

and hold two degrees there. criticsing him only makes you less understanding of

a person.

> > >

> > > you may kindly remember that when adi sankara visited the holy town kasi

and was in debate with mandan mishra, queries after queries were asked and

sankara replied. to the queries of the wife of mishra, having no answers,

sankara learnt them in a hard tantrik way and then answered those too to her

satisfaction.

> > >

> > > please note that when we present something to a forum or a group, onus

would be on us to substantiate and corroborate. if i were you, i would have been

more happier because people are asking queries about what i researched with lot

of time and energy spent and would not tire in answering till the querent is

answered satisfactorily.

> > >

> > > this is the spirit we display and expect from others especially researches

like you.

> > >

> > > with best wishes and blessings

> > > pandit arjun

> > > www.rudraksharemedy .com

> > >

> > > , Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ ...>

wrote:

> > > >

> > > > To All :

> > > >

> > > > I had no interest in making any claim at all about weather forecasting.