Tks Rohini Ji...ts Plz Mr.JhaTks- Suresh/Vinay Ji?Kundalee, tsunamis, earthquakes, cataclysmic rains and floods

May 4, 2009

Krishnan Ji and All Others ,

When words like " hoax " are used, issues may get personalized. Kundalee is only

one among dozens of softwares developed by me. Barring a few panchanga making

softwares which are being used by many institutions, all my softeares are

related to weather forecasting. Each year, I send weather forecasts to

scientists. I get invitations from scientific conferences, most of which I avoid

because I do not want to travel long distances. Very few astrologers have

reviewed my weather forecasts and hence do not know my forecasts or the method

behind them. Hence, there was scope of misunderstanding. You are a good

astrologer and it will be easy for you to recognize that if astrological method

is perfect for expalining all available data of 200 years, then this method MUST

be perfect for millions and billikons of years, because astrological method does

not depend on pressure or temperature which cannot be guessed too much in

advance. It is unfortunate that you are

neglecting or misinterpreting my statements. I think you do not want to keep

away from discussing weather forecasting as such, I believe you do not want to

discuss the topic until and I accept you charge that my claim is a hoax claim !!

If I complained that you should not call anything a " hoax " without testing it,

you think I am personalizing the issue !! My forecast was tested at NASA

headquarters ( Click_Here ), but your time is more precious. You are free to not

test my weather software, but you must not advise others to do the same. I

devoted long years to develop weather forecasting softwares which are a great

proof of the accuracy of siddhanta. Why you want to banish this PROOF without

allowing it a fair trial ?? Will such an attitude harm me personally ? No Sir.

Over 230,000 persons were killed by 2004 Tsunami, and a member yesterday asked

me to show some astrological reason behind that mishap. I am posting my analysis

today, which you may

overlook if you have already taken a decision to keep away from my weather

softwares. But there are persons who are interested in tsunamis, earthquakes,

cataclysmic rains and floods (most of my work relate to this lat category). I

will post my reports to them, if you are not interested. Rohini ji's advice was

aimed for preventing any useless personalized controversy, and not for

preventing any genuine astrological discussion. I hope you will change your

decision.

Good Wishes,

-VJ

================ ==============

________________________________

vattem krishnan <bursar_99

Monday, May 4, 2009 6:42:38 AM

Re: Tks Rohini Ji...ts Plz Mr.JhaTks- Suresh/Vinay Ji?Re: Kundalee

Dear Friends,

It is right to concentrate one and only one issue of surya siddhanta and the

development of software kundalee.All other issues of Super Sience and weather

forecast for next hundred years and related issue may suggest level of

confidence held in Astrology.But we need also to know that we are into such a

vast subject hwere ever other moment subjectivity creeps in unfortunately.

when one is deeply involved all other write up and interventions are not only

difficult to understand but gets personalised. Every on of us are eagerly

waiting for the successful nad acceptable version of kundalee software.More

than this,to read any thing in missives is to deviate from the proposed

objectives and goals to reach.It is a good suggestion made by Shri Rohini Ji

vrkrishnan

--- On Sun, 5/3/09, Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan@ hotmail.com> wrote:

Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan@ hotmail.com>

Tks Rohini Ji...ts Plz Mr.JhaTks- Suresh/Vinay Ji?Re: Kundalee

Sunday, May 3, 2009, 12:48 PM

Dear Vinay ji,

Since my name got mentioned a few times in this thread of discussions, let me

put my two cents across. I think 'hoax' is a rather strong over-interpretation

on your part to what in scientific circles (and not exclusively science --

alone!) would be a normal part of examining new information. The discussion has

been meandering and jumping between on the one hand SS-based Kundalee as a

better alternative for the currently used software and on the other hand the

supremacy of weather prediction using SS calculations. Then into this comes this

matter of what is super-science and what is not. Somewhere in that melange is

often voiced the personal feeling of being hurt and if I may use the term, the

feeling of being marginalized as you have expressed from time to time. The

picture gets even more complicated due to technical issues, whether it is the

coding or the user's systems and viruses and file systems and what not. Please

step back from all this and put

yourself in a bystander's shoes. It is not that people have not been coming

forth and sincerely trying your offering and getting frustrated because they are

told that it is their computer or system that is at fault. And then within a few

days you come up with a newer version. This is all very intriguing or at least

confusing. Why the need for so many versions if the program is stable and I am

not talking about all systems but just plain and simple Windows XP, forget about

vista and windows 7 or whatever.

Being a labour of love, that Kundalee is obviously for you, I can understand

your feeling hurt or cornered when a question is asked but I am sure even you

realize that not everyone is trying to gang up on you. It is quite possible that

you may take this the wrong way and think that I am being antagonistic towards

you or your software, both of which are simply not true let me assure you Sir.

Without mincing words, there is obviously some interest in your mind to get your

software tested and improved, otherwise why would you remind us all the urgency

and usefulness in testing the software. Perhaps that should be the focus, and I

am not being unctorial -- primarily because I may not be old enough or wise

enough to serve that role!

If we truly want Jyotish to be treated as Science, then like any other

scientist, we should be prepared to demonstrate and demonstrate in large volumes

of evidence and to field questions without getting upset, even when the

questions or statements may be rightly or wrongly seem to be sarcastic or

expressing disbelief. I fully understand that you would find it more efficient

to show the evidence in person and if godwilling I am in the neighbourhood, I

will try to visit you at your convenience obviously, but then perhaps we should

park that discussion (weather prediction and jyotish as a superscience) so that

we all do not keep spinning our wheels without moving even an inch.

You may feel that I am wasting my time in writing these long missives, but

something within tells me that I am not...! It is all 'pensionable' time as far

as the Soul is concerned ;-)

Best wishes and regards, as always

Rohiniranjan

, Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ ...> wrote:

>

> Arjun Ji,

> I have neither any interest nor any time for raising useless issues. There are

some persons who have no interest in testing my software (I am not pointing at

Krishnan ji) but are very keen on discussing everything with me under the Sun

excepting astrology, which sometimes leads to useless controversies. I am sure

you also have no interest in verifying my " hoax claims " about weather

forecasting. I did not use any uncivil word against Krishnan ji, but the manner

you are holding me guilty for my crime of complaining against being called a

fraud speaks of your partiality. I am not a professional astrologer and I do not

care for votes. But if you have any respect for truth, ask Krishnan ji to test

my " hoax " claims. I did not use any bad word for him.

>

> with best wishes and blessings,

> -Vinau Jha

>

> ============ ====== ========

>

> ____________ _________ _________ __

> panditarjun2004 <panditarjun2004@ ...>

>

> Sunday, May 3, 2009 6:15:44 PM

> Tks Rohini Ji...ts Plz Mr.JhaTks- Suresh/Vinay Ji?Re: Kundalee

>

> dear vinayji

>

> kindly do not get personal and take names. vattem krishnanji is a highly

learnt professor with rich experience from various premium government academic

institutes across india including IIT, Delhi. he also learnt astrology from ICAS

and hold two degrees there. criticsing him only makes you less understanding of

a person.

>

> you may kindly remember that when adi sankara visited the holy town kasi and

was in debate with mandan mishra, queries after queries were asked and sankara

replied. to the queries of the wife of mishra, having no answers, sankara learnt

them in a hard tantrik way and then answered those too to her satisfaction.

>

> please note that when we present something to a forum or a group, onus would

be on us to substantiate and corroborate. if i were you, i would have been more

happier because people are asking queries about what i researched with lot of

time and energy spent and would not tire in answering till the querent is

answered satisfactorily.

>

> this is the spirit we display and expect from others especially researches

like you.

>

> with best wishes and blessings

> pandit arjun

> www.rudraksharemedy .com

>

> , Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ ...> wrote:

> >

> > To All :

> >

> > I had no interest in making any claim at all about weather forecasting.

Rohiniranjan ji said he has seen no proof of Jyotisha being a super science. In

reply, I said I cannot prove it on internet, if he can allow even half an hour

face to face talk, I can show proofs. In return, I have started receiving same

kinds of epithets from Mr Vattem Krishna which I used to receive from some

members of AIA : krishnan ji says my statements as " hoax calls " , " tall claims " ,

etc etc. Mr Krishnan Ji makes his " hats off to the seers who with their wits

have studied nature and defined solar system " , and the topmost seers have

verified my hoax claims to be good and scientific : Click_Here and ClickHere .

Mr Krishnan Ji is making these wild allegations upon me on behalf of the

" fraternity of Astrologers " which has perhaps nominated him to call me a fraud,

but the recognized astrological community of India thinks otherwise : ClickHere

for decision of a recognized

> > university after a high court decision to judge my " hoax claims " , and

ClickHere for the list of institutions which do not regard my claims as hoax.

Internet is free for all, and I have even received obscene abuses from " reputed "

astrologers. They have no interest in examining my claims which they declared to

be hoax without testing. But there are heads of departments of Jyotisha in

recognized Sanskrit university who are using my software to make " hoax " weather

forecasts : Click_Here Mr Krishnan if you can spare some of your PRECIOUS time

on reviewing the method which you so sportively spend on abusing me. I do not

believe he will be able to recall from which ancient text this method was

deduced, which he labels as hoax. But predictions made from this method have

been verified by Climate branch of NASA headquarters, among other institutions.

" Hats off to the seers " of physical science, and " heads down of those sages and

their followers like me " who

> > wrote foolish treatises or worked upon them!

> >

> > -VJ

> > ============ ==== ============

> >

> > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > vattem krishnan <bursar_99@ ..>

> >

> > Sunday, May 3, 2009 8:32:48 AM

> > Re: Tks Rohini Ji...ts Plz Mr.JhaTks- Suresh/Vinay Ji?Re:

Kundalee

> >

> > Dear Friends,

> > Study of Atmospheric Sciences is always a matter of contoroversy whether as

a part of science,Engineering and Technology or as an Art.

> > we have modelling systems with +_ 5% variations.These forecasts that come of

conrolled environments of laboratories often seem to fail for one or other

reason.Today the most debated issue is ozone depletion and green house effect.

> > we have regard for Astrology and also follow the principle with due

faith.hats off to the seers who with their wits have studied nature and defined

solar system.we all know panch bhootas are the base for this universe and there

is no denial of this fact even from sciences.Astrology derives strength from the

palnetary moment.we also feel mystical why often planets expected movement and

beahviour often changes that what they r supposed to do in zig-zzg motions.Also

velocities yet times do change.All these variations give no doubt clues for

forecast of weather basing our thoughts from Astrological principles.

> > yet we can not forget Astrology as a science of indictaive nature helps

common man.The basic dictum however no body else other than Brahma the super

creatot of Universe can only say(with some suthority)what shall happen

definetely.So it is not proper for us to make claims which are definetely not

justified. we may say as a fraternity of Astrologers we are moving forward to

predict weather or for that matter any affair with near accuaracy with our

indepth study of palnets and their beahviour.But then to say weather forecast or

rains happening with certainity can never be told.if we say so then the context

of Kaliyuga and then result of our actions in the present that contribute to the

future have no meaning at all.we talk of many hazy things but when it comes to

our relevance we only withdraw from the sceen.

> > it is good that some effort has been made to develop software which can be

tried and tested but not making tall claims only defeats our purpose and

objectivity. let us continue to make our own individual effort to develop the

science of prediction but let us not make hoax calls.Fortunately we are now

relieved of the controversies of 1970-80 of ceratin scientists who called

Astrology in non sensical terms.Thanx to our great father of modern Astrologer

who defeneded Jyotish very scrupulously and won accloades to our field of

study.Let's not be therfore be catalysts for unwarranted controversies. we like

Astrology to advance and ready to make efforts to take it very close to the

society in general for it's benifits.

> > vrkrishnan

> >

> > --- On Sat, 5/2/09, panditarjun2004 <panditarjun2004@ > wrote:

> >

> > panditarjun2004 <panditarjun2004@ >

> > Tks Rohini Ji...ts Plz Mr.JhaTks- Suresh/Vinay Ji?Re: Kundalee

> >

> > Saturday, May 2, 2009, 8:31 PM

> >

> > dear vinayji

> >

> > from your mails, it seems you created a system or a way to foretell when and

where it is going to rain not for today, or tomorrorw or next week or month or

year or decade or century but even billions of years well in advance.

> >

> > there is an age old adage that says only god knows when it rains or when one

dies. indian met department daily forecasting or the cnn weekly weather

forecasting all have limited short term predictive capabilities that too only on

rains from clouds. many a time we witness heavy hailstorms where stonesized

hails suddenly come and spoiling the entire produce of a filed cultivated over a

season thereby bringing sudden losses to the farmers. such things were never or

remotely predicted even by the met department. could you even predict such

sudden loss inflicting hailstorms.

> >

> > astrology is not such a great superscience which cannot predict with

foolproof consistency from a horoscope, inter alia, on the living or dead status

of the native or gender of the native.

> >

> > since you developed a system using astrology to predict rains with

meticulous accuracy, i do not request any rain prediction for future but could

you kindly predict one cyclone or typhoon or hurricane which are surely

associated with rains that you could foretell. one such natural calamity

prediction in advance would make your rain predictive system more accepted and

also helps save human lives, god willing.

> >

> > similarly, have you also developed a way to predict a tentative date when

the next possible tsunami happens so that we keep track of it whether such

prediction works even if it happens in a plus or minus range of say one year,

because tsunamis come very very rarely.

> >

> > with best wishes and blessings

> > pandit arjun

> > www.rudraksharemedy .com

> >

> > , " Rohiniranjan " <rohini_ranjan@

....> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Jha Saheb,

> > >

> > > To the best of my knowledge accurate weather patterns and rain data have

been kept track of for maybe a lot less than 200 years. How would one verify

beyond that period to establish that expected/claimed was concordant with the

observed?

> > >

> > > RR

> > >

> > > , Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ >

wrote:

> > > >

> > > > foolproof rain forecasting billion of years in advance, which weathermen

cannot do even two weeeks in advance ?

> > > >

> > > > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > > > Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan@ >

> > > >

> > > > Saturday, May 2, 2009 11:56:44 PM

> > > > Tks Rohini Ji...ts Plz Mr.JhaTks- Suresh/Vinay Ji?Re:

Kundalee

> > > >

> > > > No Vinay Jha Ji,

> > > >

> > > > I did read that and my question still remains unanswered! If it does not

quack, does not waddle and does not have webbed feet, then it cannot be a duck!

;-)

> > > >

> > > > RR

> > > >

> > > > , Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ ...>

wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > RR ji,

> > > > > You read my message in a hurry. I said " But I am not talking of this

type of (magical) superscience. I talk of Jyotisha(as generally known) being a

superscience (which cannot be discussed on internet because it will take half an

hour to show you the proofs on a computer screen, but months for presenting them

on the internet). "

> > > > >

> > > > > -vj

> > > > >

> > > > > ============ == ============ ==

> > > > >

> > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > > > > Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan@ ...>

> > > > >

> > > > > Saturday, May 2, 2009 2:30:29 AM

> > > > > Tks Rohini Ji...ts Plz Mr.JhaTks- Suresh/Vinay Ji?Re:

Kundalee

> > > > >

> > > > > Greetings Vinay Jha ji!

> > > > >

> > > > > Sorry for the delay in responding -- I only noticed this missive, just

now.

> > > > >

> > > > > I agree with the 'super nonsense' -- over the years particularly on

Internet I have seen a few of those and of course out there in the " real world "

Nonsense is the King (or perhaps the Queen?)!

> > > > >

> > > > > What you describe, feats such as telling someone bhagya without

horoscope, generating birthdata without being told (Yogi Karve and his children

are said to be doing that consistently and not just occasionally as you

experienced personally) are not unknown and though intriguing, I would not lump

them with astrology. Psychic prowess and yogic siddhis have been claimed to be

used by several astrologers and more power to them but that is not astrology.

> > > > >

> > > > > We should be able to hold them in separate bins and not make a khichdi

of it.

> > > > >

> > > > > And while magical, uncanny these should not be called super or any

science, until such time when their basis and workings are understood. That

said, there seems to be a tendency in modern people to consider 'science' as the

woolmark of purity. Astrology does not need such crutches that themselves are

still evolving. I mean science, of course!

> > > > >

> > > > > RR

> > > > >

> > > > > , Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@

....> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Special yogas make super science as well as super nonsense. The

super-science portion of Jyotisha cannot be acquired by means of bookish

knowledge, which does not mean Guru is not needed. In spiritual matters, a guru

shows the way and removes initial obstacles, but does not teach bookish

knowledge.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I can show show you concrete evidence of astrology being a super

science. But it is not possible on internet. the last verse of Suryasiddhanta is

: it is " rahasyam brahma sammitam " . I am not omniscient. There are many facets

of astrology in which you must have more knowledge than me, but I also possess

something, and that something will invite more abusive attacks if I display them

to the undeserving lot.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I can show you proofs of superscience, but I have no such special

yoga in my own horoscope (although there are occasions when God uses me as a

medium, when I tell exact birthdate of a person without looking at the

horoscope, but I cannot do it always, nor do I know how it is done. Perhaps the

person in distress deserved such help and God wanted to help). I know persons

who have such yogas, they never touched any book of astrology as far as I know,

but computed my age just by seeing my face, and the result was exactly same as

computed on the basis of Parashara and Jaimini. But I am not talking of this

type of superscience. I talk of Jyotisha being a superscience. For it, I need a

face to face talk, with my laptop there. If you come to India in future, may I

try to show you such evidence ? For instance, foolproof rain forecasting billion

of years in advance, which weathermen cannot do even two weeeks in advance ?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > -VJ

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > > > > > Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan@ ...>

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thursday, April 30, 2009 5:42:32 AM

> > > > > > Tks Rohini Ji...ts Plz Mr.JhaTks- Suresh/Vinay Ji?Re:

Kundalee

> > > > > >

> > > > > > , Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@

....> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Jyotisha is indeed a super science and special yogas make some

persons better jyotishis. But these things cannot be taught. Hence it is

advisable for us all to adopt a scientific approach as as far as possible.

> > > > > > > -vj

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > |||||||||||| ||||||||| ||||||||| ||||||||| |||||||||

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Vinay Jha Ji,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I am sorry but I do not see the connection between:

> > > > > > <Jyotish ... is a super science...>

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > <special yogas make some better jyotishis>

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Special yogas make one a better poet, a better priest, a better

teacher, a better writer, a better singer, a better crook or con-man, but

neither of these, hopefully, particularly the last pursuits di bit make those

super-sciences even though special yogas make one one of those!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You also said that these things [=super-science/ jyotish] cannot be

taught! Most individuals who may have intense devotion and dedication for

jyotish but were devoid of the ?advantage? of GPS (Guru, Parampara,

Shradhdhaa=devotion alone) will sigh a sigh of relief that their life and

pursuit was not a waste of a lifetime ;-)). Because if these things cannot be

taught then all this NOISE and NAGAADAA Vadan of having a Guru and the rest of

the nine yards as many make on the internet is perhaps overrated and overplayed!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Being a cautious and older person, I would avoid making such one

size fits all statements, as the hindustani term goes, " ...Gaahay begaahay! " . I

realize that Jyotish fora have only a minority that speak and understand Hindi

or other northern languages, so I suppose the nearest English phrase for Gaahay

Begaahay would be 'Willy-nilly! '

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I had a chance to observe children in day-care settings, so we are

talking really young and learning children. Some seemed to come almost

hard-wired for a highly sophisticated level of motor control, others were

obviously gifted at learning, some were sickly, others could roll in dirt day in

and day out and never had a sick day off.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > As I moved from observing infants to toddlers to children, to young

adults to mature adults to older people and even those at the extremes of their

age in hospices and senior care centres, what I learned was that that

'variability' is inherent in the HUMAN cohort (and perhaps others animals too),

not only in their physical, motor, locomotor, mental, learning and other

capabilities but actually is the very reason which makes them not necessary to

be fitted into pigeon holes with prescriptions such as some make.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I have seen absolutely NO EVIDENCE that astrology is a super

science! I await evidence -- since we are talking SCIENCE!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > RR

> > > > > >

May 5, 2009

Dear Shri Vinya Ji,

You have supplemented great information onyagnas.it is master peiece.we all have

liked it and convey our great appreciation.

About your weather modelling and forecasts,the base you have is really a path

breaking approach.Also the software you are attempting must also fulfil your

ambition as you are working deligently.we do not want to rush through mails and

pass any untowrd comments as we find great committment.Probably,thorough

analysis and it's application that leads to facts need some reaosnable time for

all interested people to get satisfied.

" Rohini ji's advice was aimed for preventing any useless personalized

controversy, and not for preventing any genuine astrological discussion "

we always aim for this as the benifit for such discussions improves image of JR

and allof us

vrkrishnan

--- On Mon, 5/4/09, Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16 wrote:

Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16

Re: Tks Rohini Ji...ts Plz Mr.JhaTks- Suresh/Vinay Ji?Re:

Kundalee, tsunamis, earthquakes, cataclysmic rains and floods

Monday, May 4, 2009, 3:00 AM