How To Test Softwares : Mundane Charts-175

May 17, 2009

Dear Arjun ji

thanks for a practical approach mail in line to what i have been saying so far

and all my appeals to wait till chandra and guru joing instead of chandra+rahu

earlier to be the stage seems vindicated now isnit it so calm approach is there

on it, we could have a acidinc one if it was set to be in open in chandra+rahu

in Makara this step I took from past experiences in forums

when Budha is vakri

chandra with nodes or malefics we see troubled atmosphere so good sharing time

is when chandra is unaflicted so hope members use such times and post info based

messages.

Prashant

________________________________

panditarjun2004 <panditarjun2004

Sunday, May 17, 2009 12:02:48 PM

Re: How To Test Softwares : Mundane Charts

dear friends

since the group moderator prashantji sought opinions and senior members like

RRji have already given their views, i would also kindly request all fraternal

brothers and sisters to give room to fellow brethern and sisters and let them

share what they wish to. every one can agree or disagree in a manner without

using abuses or slangs.

vinayji sharing his knowledge on astrology, astronomy, history or vedic

spirituality has many takers but if his software is not acceptable to some or

someone finds flaws in it, they can simply ignore that such a software exist and

be happy with those softwares which they are comfortable with. on a positive

note, they can suggest how to make it more userfriendly or add value to get more

acceptability. if not, simply ignore all his mails on software and join only on

other threads.

simply put, if one does not like something, just leave it as uninteresting or

unacceptable. thats it. why to enter into debates and prove that one is right

or the other is wrong.

vinayji is also showing his maturity by taking the critical mails in right

spirit and not matching words. in future also, he may continue to treat the

negative critical views only as feedback and nothing personal.

with best wishes and blessings

pandit arjun

www.rudraksharemedy .com

, Prashant Kumar G B <gbp_kumar@. ..>

wrote:

>

> Dear RRji

>

> a good post, I hope all observe this tolerance and mutual respect in public

>

> I HAVE TRIED AT VARIOUS TIMES TO DEFUSE POTENTIAL FLASH POINTS from the time I

took over

>

> say lalit Misra, the sapta rishi time later av pathi ji's case etc

>

> now in Lalit's case or Vinay ji i had privately appealed to Sunik Nair ji

several times

>

> to allow them to work peacefully and public can judge them we must not

arrogate the power of a judge on ourself as the subject is vast, diverse and

spread at diff levels in diff parts of India being a oral tradition of knowledge

sharing has its plus and minus points

>

> NOW IF LALIT IOR VINAY JI according to sunil nair or anyone r fake by theur

work will expose themselves, but if they demosntrate their work they stand

vindicated at least Vinay ji has ben asking for time so have given him time

>

> I also told sunil ji if he feels Vinay ji is not up to his standard or dirt

why dirty ur hands his works alone will show him on which side he will remain on

the knowledge sharing one or oen who runs away fearing or taking any excuse for

running away somewhere he must demonstrate his material convincinlgly

>

> we know traditional wisdom is v rich and we have not scraped even the tip of

it so if he has done it WE MUST 1ST APPRECIATE IT AND ALSO ENCOURAGE, GIVE HIM

TIME TO SHOW HIS WORKS TO US WE CAN'T FORCE HIM TO A TIME FRAME, WHEN HE IS

DOING SO MAY OTHER THINGS

>

> i AM GOING BY WHAT HE HAS SAID AND HAVE NO VESTED INTEREST IN SAYING SO NOR I

AM GIING TO JUDGE SOMEONE FOR THE HECK OF IT, THE MEMBERSHIP here and by and

alrge in forums mustb e patient, tolerant of diverse views, EITHER TEST WHAT

THTYE DOUBT OR IGNORE WHAT THEY FEEL OFFENSIVE, ABUSSIVE, INCONSISTANT.

>

> on our part each member must excercise restraint, self belife in ones

knowledge, ones gurus is important and if it is true to the spirit one need not

get angry or carried away like a fanatic but the respect to our gurus starts

with being humble, and being humane in our approach let ppl who offend us bear

the sin of it

>

> from our side we may be on a good self image, mirror view, may be

occassionally can defend the views we represent not on a personal abusive plane

>

> prashant

____________ _________ _________ __

> Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan@ ...>

>

> Sunday, May 17, 2009 5:05:32 AM

> Re: How To Test Softwares : Mundane Charts

>

> Dear Vinay Ji,

>

> You should not have felt apprehensive at all, Sir! If two educated individuals

on whom people depend for advice, guidance and direction cannot discuss and

interchange their views and thoughts in a level-headed manner without reaching

out for the other person's collar, then how can we feel any pride in the

greatness of the ancient civilization to which we belong, at least from the

point of reference of this birthtime?

>

> Regards,

>

> Rohiniranjan

>

> {{A general request to posters: I think all of us jyotishis should demonstrate

more tolerance and compassion even if we do not care about whether the world is

watching us or not.}}

>

> , Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ ...> wrote:

> >

> > RR Ji,

> >

> > Thanks for your tolerance and openness. I was apprehensive that you may

dislike my reaction. If my reaction was misplaced, I beg an apology.

> >

> > I must correct one misinterpretation. I never sought " any assurances from

readers that I will post examples

> > and case studies etc but would want to make sure first that those will

> > be read by others. " Two persons were desirous of case studies from me, but

were willing or otherwise unable to read 7 case studies which are rotting on my

website for six months, about which I made many references in this forum. If

they are not interested in case studies already posted by me, why do they demand

more ? Is it not a wastage of my time ? If they read my previous case studies, I

will supply more almost instantly. But even if they do not read me, I will post

more case studies, but not instantly and only at my leisure. Why should I demand

a priori assurance from everyone to read my postings ?

> >

> > -VJ

> >

> > ============ === ===

> >

> > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan@ ...>

> >

> > Saturday, May 16, 2009 10:47:34 PM

> > Re: How To Test Softwares : Mundane Charts

> >

> > Dear Vinay Jha Ji,

> >

> > I was not at all suggesting that you stop working on your software or to

bury it as sounded from your response. I was merely commenting on your earlier

posting in which you were seeking assurances from readers that you will post

examples and case studies etc but would want to make sure first that those will

be read by others. Please read my original message and you shall see where your

understanding departed from my expression.

> >

> > But thank you very much for giving us a glimpse into your background and

reasons for being on the path and mission that you are on.

> >

> > I can only speak for myself but I do not like to critique other people's

approaches and techniques etc. There are so many variations that are used in

divinatory crafts like astrology that I am just in awe of the brilliance of all

systems. I realize that many scholars are of the opinion that there can only be

one specific and correct way of applying astrology (ayanamsha etc) and some of

them also maintain that all others are sadly mistaken. My observation is

different and my window of acceptance larger.

> >

> > And no I did not find your tone harsh at all. Candour is a boon, not a bane.

> >

> > RR

> >

> > , Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ ...>

wrote:

> > >

> > > RR Ji,

> > >

> > > I hope you will take my words in a friendly manner, as you have always

done, in spite of apparently harsh tone in some sentences, but this harshness is

superficial, necessitated on account of some principles which you will perhaps

try to understand.

> > >

> > > My departed Guru ji who taught me Jyotisha, besides other valuable things,

was much more learned , wiser and socially/politicall y/economically influential

than me. But he did not use his knowledge and influence to propagate

Suryasiddhanta. He was Convenor of 1942 Quit India Movement Committee in Bihar

and organized the first major rally on Aug 9 in which 7 students were killed, as

a reaction to which a nationwide revolt against British Raj instantly broke out.

Later, he was a Vice Chancellor without taking any salary. Chief minister and

many other state and central cabinet ministers were his disciples. He wrote 60

books, but not a sentence on Jyotisha. He gave his Jyotisha knowledge only to me

(which makes my situation worse, making me lonely), and even his nearest

relatives did not know he had any knowledge of Jyotisha ! I am unfortunate that

I could not learn all that I could learn from him due to his departure. He never

needed computers or

> > > calculators, I saw him making horoscopes without using paper and pen and

any panchanga, doing all the calculations mujabaani !!

> > >

> > > Swami Ramakrishna Paramhamsa did not cross seas, why did Swami Vivekananda

? If my Guru ji did not write on Jyotisha, why should I ? If he did not make any

software, why should I ?

> > >

> > > 'He' helped me directly in making my first astrological software

(Suryasiddhantic) . 'He' said I am free to write a book on Suryasiddhanta and

even helped me at portions where I faced difficulty. Is it not permission ? Both

parts of my work ,software and book, are being carried on WITH permission by

That very agency Which gave me this thing.

> > >

> > > The work on book is progressing. But it is not a matter of writing a

single book. It is a matter of discussing all major misinterpretations on

ancient astrology and much more. The work may go into many books and will take

years and even decades. Does it mean I should leave software ? Why ? I know you

lost much time in unstalling Kundalee and resolved not to waste your time again.

Your advice about forgetting Kundalee is not a new advice. If you think this

software should be forgotten, who prevents you from doing so? In future, I will

never ask you to install it. I am not saying so in anguish. Actually, it is

prohibited in Suryasiddhanta to ask uninterested persons to even read it or use

it in any way. I sent you case studies, and you did not respond. Had the

astrological results from Kundalee appeared wrong to you, you might have

discussed your differences with me. But you chose to neglect it, and rather ask

me to bury a software which took best

> > decades

> > > of my life. Book is secondary to me. I am not really interested in it.

Some friends are passionate about a detailed version of the book which was

published in 2005. That is why I agreed to bring out the book. As for your

concern for abusive behaviour of some persons, I do not care for abuses (or

praises), because I am not a businessman. Should I carry out a psychoanalytical

analysis of your comments in the manner of Derrida? Read your sentences yourself

:

> > >

> > > <<< " a detached, dispassionate individual like you is so passionate about

this software and method etc and cannot walk away from it all? >>>

> > >

> > > A science teacher once told me that Adi Shankara warred with all and

sundry and could not learn some detachment ! Working for a noble cause is a sign

that the person is not detached ! As per this view, even Lord Krishna was not

detached because he was partial towards Pandavas, unlike Balarama who was

detached from both factions of Right and Wrong, Dharma and Adharma. Balarama

walked away from the greatest event in Indian history to visit teerthas, while

Lord Krishna created a new teertha at Kurukshetra through his really detached

actions and preachings. Detachment is a proper mental state of performing

karmas. Running away from duties in not detachment.

> > >

> > > <<< " Why would one so knowledgeable and dedicated to higher causes as your

postings indicate that you are " >>>

> > >

> > > The deconstruction (cf. Derrida) of this sentences is : making a software

based on the supposed 'higher cause' is a lower cause, which suggests even these

'higher causes' are not really higher, otherwise a good theory (proposed book)

shoold accompany practice (software). I have stressed innumerable times that the

only proof of validity of Suryasiddhanta is its astrological test, and not any

historical or astronomical or dharmashaastriya discussion, and asking for

burying the Suryasiddhantic software is asking for burying of Suryasiddhangta

and its proposed book as well. A book will need a software to test the

assertions.

> > >

> > > <<< " Which writer or researcher in ANY faculty, science or non-science

first polls the future readers and gets their assurance before he starts doing

or writing down the research etc? " >>>

> > >

> > > This sentence is based on a fallacious assumption that the book was never

published. I told that Hindi version was published in 2005 and is out of print.

I distributed it through websites and emails for many years, but stopped doing

so when I started working on enlarged new version (in Hindi ; I am not

interested in english version of the main work, although I will try to bring out

a separate english book).

> > >

> > > <<< " The true pleasure and sense of accomplishment should arise from

simply writing what one believes in and must not be based on 'others' or how

they perceive your work or worth! " >>>

> > >

> > > I do not agree. This " true " pleasure is maayaa and an obstacle to moksha.

The bulk of my research works have been published in others' names, who needed

name and fame. I did not allow any publisher of my panchangas to put my name

among editors. The astrological research journal now in press carries many

articles written by me but bearing other names. How did you guess that my " true "

pleasure is based on how others perceive my work or worth ? You are mixing the

cause for which I work with personal things which are immaterial to me. Some

persons think I have some mania for Suryasiddhanta. I have told them that I made

astrological software according to physical astronomy, but left it when I found

it unsatisfactory and found a better astrologically sound alternative. Some even

think me to be an anachronistic pandit, not knowing my past. Why these

discussions are personalized is not surprising : some persons do not knoe

anything about ancient siddhantas,

> and

> > > want to bury the issue by diversions to personalized remarks/attacks (I

am not referring to you).

> > >

> > > Instead of seeing any objective discussion on horoscopes made along

physical astronomy versus Suryasiddhanta, why things are being personalized

about me ? One has a right to forget me and my work. One has a right to remember

me and my work. I will forget both of them, because I want moksha. But I am not

passionate about even moksha, leave aside softwares. It is my firm belief that

all noble (and ignoble) works will be washed up by next pralaya in this world,

and only my karmas will accompany me, and I want to do good karmas without

reaping any result. When a weight is used to measure something, that genuineness

of that weight is also automatically measured in such a process. Comments on me

are proofs not of my character but of the commentators. Worldly people

misinterpret my detachment as my passionate involvement

> > > in this false and brutal world in which worldly persons do not really

> > > care for their nears and dears and construe their Moha to be a token of

> > > Prema.

> > >

> > > -Vinay Jha

> > > ============ ======= =====

> > >

> > > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > > Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan@ ...>

> > >

> > > Saturday, May 16, 2009 6:34:39 AM

> > > Re: How To Test Softwares : Mundane Charts

> > >

> > > Dear Vinay Ji,

> > >

> > > You have expressed a lot of doubts and misgivings in your message and

other postings too, earlier.

> > >

> > > Please do not waste your time in reaching out and placing your efforts on

Internet.

> > >

> > > As you have stated earlier, several times in different fora, you have

discovered nothing new, and also that promoting SS or proving its utility is not

your life's mission, which has many higher and different and higher spiritual

goals.

> > >

> > > Then why a detached, dispassionate individual like you is so passionate

about this software and method etc and cannot walk away from it all? All the

abuse and distraction that you get dragged into and all these people that you

say are trying to shut your voice down and so on.

> > >

> > > Why would one so knowledgeable and dedicated to higher causes as your

postings indicate that you are and someone who just 'knows' things at times and

knows how long he is going to live etc -- Why would one continue to return again

and again to the matter of this software and your hard work and valuable use of

your time and not be able to just walk away and focus on this book that you told

us about you were writing?

> > >

> > > Which writer or researcher in ANY faculty, science or non-science first

polls the future readers and gets their assurance before he starts doing or

writing down the research etc?

> > >

> > > The true pleasure and sense of accomplishment should arise from simply

writing what one believes in and must not be based on 'others' or how they

perceive your work or worth!

> > >

> > > Kuch jyaada bol gaya, Sir, to bhool chook leni deni!

> > >

> > > Modern human psyche is basically very paranoid, and full of disbelief

because it has survival value in our daily reality. Come morning most of us must

return to the concrete jungle and the harsh 'dog eat dog' reality and rat race!

If someone suddenly tries to switch the paradigm, they will meet with

resistance!

> > >

> > > So, please do write but only if you can do so with happiness in your heart

and not worrying if someone will read every word you write, no matter how

important and personal to you, or even understand the words or say, " Thank you

Jha Ji for writing " or whatever.

> > >

> > > Please try it, it works ;-)

> > >

> > > RR

> > >

> > > , " vinayjhaa16 " <vinayjhaa16@

....> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > To All :

> > > >

> > > > Some members have demanded case studies. I am ready to present case

> > > > studies on internet provided they are read seriously and my time is not

> > > > wasted. But I need to clarify some points in this regard.

> > > >

> > > > I used to send annual rain forecasts to 615 weather scientists each

> > > > year, but this year I have not been able to do so although mesha

> > > > samkraanti elapsed one month ago. Case studies and biographical analyses

> > > > are secondary in my list of priorities than to a full English version of

> > > > Kundalee software. I made this software in Hindi, and translation into

> > > > Englisg was started recently. So far , only divisionals and varshaphala

> > > > have been translated. What is the use of case studies if the software is

> > > > incomplete in English ? Six months ago, I put 5 individual and some

> > > > mundane case studies in English my website in addition to nearly 70

> > > > mundane case studies in Hindi attached file, but nobody was interested

> > > > in mundane studies and individual case studies were neglected because I

> > > > followed the BPHS + Jaimini rules of death prediction which does not

> > > > work with physical astronomy. Many members want case studies which

> > > > could support their right or wrong belief in physical astronomy. When

> > > > they see Suryasiddhanta is working well with phalita rules of Rishis,

> > > > they either drop discussion or revert to tactics saying BPHS is not the

> > > > only method ! It is not honesty. BPHS is the only complete textbook of

> > > > phalita jyotisha propounded by a Rishi. When I saw some people wanted

> > > > case studies I presented such studies, 7 of them, but then they dropped

> > > > discussion without pointing at my errors or merits. I became convinced

> > > > they were not serious, hence I stopped making more case studies. I left

> > > > contributing to mysticboard, for which these case studies were

> > > > originally prepared and were later put at my website.

> > > >

> > > > In the meantime, due to a lapse of my technician, some wrong version of

> > > > DLL files were attached to my software which created installion

> > > > problems to nearly 15-20 persons. I had to completely reinstall my

> > > > Windows OS as well as software making platform Visual Studio and had to

> > > > recompile Kundalee afresh. I have rectified these version differences,

> > > > and the current version of Kundalee is fit for all versions of XP and

> > > > Win98.

> > > >

> > > > These problems were augmented by my mundane other problems and

> > > > assignments. I will present case studies when I get leisure, because I

> > > > am sure 7 case studies rotting at my website are not being studied by

> > > > those who want more case studies. The proposal of 10 case studies was

> > > > originally from Mr Pankaj Dhar whose language was a proof of his lack of

> > > > interest in my work : he said it is " my duty " to prove my point and

> > > > therefore I should present 10 case studies comparing results of my

> > > > software with those of other. Why should I try to prove other software

> > > > makers wrong ? Will it not make all of them hostile to me? I said I will

> > > > increase the number of case studies but I will not compare my results

> > > > with those from other softwares : after this Mr pankaj Dhar lost

> > > > interest in my work. At present you are the only person who is demanding

> > > > case studies. Why 7 case studies presently at my website since Dec 2008

> > > > cannot be regarded as " case studies " is not clear to me. I will need

> > > > only one day to add extra 3 case studies to complete 10 case studies

> > > > demanded by two members in JR (none of whom has installed Kundalee). But

> > > > I will never abuse other software makers, and unless I abuse them, my

> > > > case studies will not be read at all !! Why you do not see this point ?

> > > > Some people do not want case studies, they want me to stop my creative

> > > > works and fight with all software makers of the world by proving them

> > > > wrong !

> > > >

> > > > I sent individual case studies to many persons. None of them is ready to

> > > > discuss the good or bad points in my case studies, just because

> > > > planetary positions of Kundalee differ from physical astronomy. They are

> > > > under an oath never to discuss a chart with me ASTROLOGICALLY.

> > > >

> > > > Only real software developers like PVR and Shyam Kansal ji are

> > > > sympathetic and unbiased : they know the shortcomings of modern

> > > > softwares and are doing their best to find ways to remove these

> > > > shortcomings. Shyam Kansal ji is the pioneer in software on

> > > > Ashtakavargas, and when he found the team of Sreenadh falsely charging

> > > > me of making an " uninstallable " software based on an " outdated "

> > > > siddhaanta, he stepped in to report that he faced no difficulty in

> > > > installing Kundalee and found that no other software dealt with

> > > > Ashtakavargas more exhaustively than Kundalee. But such verdicts by a

> > > > pioneer vedic software developer made no impact on AIA managers.

> > > >

> > > > Over half of my time is wasted on useless theoretical discussions or

> > > > diversions. I wanted comparative discussion of charts, but I found no

> > > > one is interested in it. Only I am expected to make case studies and

> > > > comparative studies and only I will read my case studies. Why 7 case

> > > > studies rotting at my website for over 6 months cannot be regarded as

> > > > case studies ? I

> > > >

> > > > I started biographical study of Napoleon, but stopped the work when one

> > > > senior member in JR said that birthtime of celebrities are doubtful.

> > > > Why they want to waste my time with biographical studies when they will

> > > > not read those studies ? I know birthdata of most of Indian celebrities

> > > > are deliberate falsehoods, but same is not the casewith well researched

> > > > foerign celebrities.

> > > >

> > > > Hence, the best method for comparing various schools is mundane case

> > > > studies : I have over two hundred case studies in this field, which has

> > > > no uncertainties like birthtime errors, because time of chart is

> > > > determined by solar transits into raashis or nakshatras. Moreover, I can

> > > > present comparative case studies in this field too, because there will

> > > > be no need to compare astrological softwares made by others. 136 years

> > > > of official annual rainfall data is availabe on a monthly basis. Change

> > > > the year beginning with January to year beginning with April, and

> > > > compare annual rainfall data with Mesha Samkraanti charts of India.

> > > > Analysis of only one raashi is enough in this case, becase we need to

> > > > analyse only that raashi in which India falls in the Prithvi Chakra.

> > > >

> > > > Repeat same exercize for 55 years of economic growth data presented in

> > > > Economic Survey of central finance ministers : these data are already

> > > > presented in year beginning from April and can be easily compared with

> > > > Varsha-pravesh charts of India on nirayana mesha Samkraanti. Analysis of

> > > > only 11th house is needed in this case.

> > > >

> > > > Internet astrologers are not interested in mundane astrology, hence I am

> > > > not translating my Hindi case studies into English. But whether internet

> > > > people read my case studies or not, I will certainly put them on my

> > > > websites gradually.

> > > >

> > > > I translated one year's forecasts made by a HOD on world and by me on

> > > > India and put it at following webpage : Click_Here

> > > > <http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ World+Economy+ %3A+Apr+2009-

Mar+201\

> > > > 0> . I will have to translate my whole mundane software into English

> > > > for making English case studies. Before I joined forums, I did not

> > > > know Indian astrologers do not know rudimentary Hindi. If south Indian

> > > > astrologers can recognize Hindi alphabets (no mastery of language is

> > > > needed), I will not need to translate my whole mundane softwares, and

> > > > can present mundane case studies with commentaries in english.

> > > >

> > > > But then someone will come and say Parashari phalit is not universal and

> > > > should not be used ! After all, there must be some consensus on the

> > > > methods of case studies. So far, my experience is that only those people

> > > > want case studies from me who do not want to touch my software for one

> > > > reason or another.

> > > >

> > > > I have devoted my life in making scores of softwares and other research

> > > > projects along modern physical astronomy initially but along

> > > > Suryasiddhanta later when I found modern physical astronomy giving

> > > > unsatisfactory results. Those who have not worked along both lines and

> > > > merely stick to modern physical astronomy have a prejudiced feeling that

> > > > I have some personal agenda of imposing Suryasiddhanta. My background is

> > > > not astrological but scientific, and I became a supporter of

> > > > Suryasiddanta after decades of comparative researches. I have no benefit

> > > > in propagating this method, because I never sold either my softwares not

> > > > took any fees for my astrological services. Yet, some people have

> > > > expressed their unfounded views that I have a future plan to get

> > > > commercial benefits by making " hoax claims " . These same people refuse to

> > > > study 7 case studies at my website and say it is " my " duty to prove my

> > > > point. It is impossible to prove or disprove anything to those who

> > > > refuse to read the proofs.

> > > >

> > > > -VinayJha

> > > > ============ == ====

> > > >

May 17, 2009

It is good to see so many matured members in JR. Now I will be able to send what

Prashant Ji asks for. Testing needs a right climate, and not an attitude of

dogfighters or bullfighters. Who do not like my software should forget me, as

Arjun ji rightly uggested. Why they are attempting the impossible : to

obliterate me or my works in a Hitlerite manner (one " intellectal " had asked

them to kill me) ?

-VJ

============= ===

________________________________

Prashant Kumar G B <gbp_kumar

Sunday, May 17, 2009 12:15:59 PM

Re: Re: How To Test Softwares : Mundane Charts-175

Dear Arjun ji

thanks for a practical approach mail in line to what i have been saying so far

and all my appeals to wait till chandra and guru joing instead of chandra+rahu

earlier to be the stage seems vindicated now isnit it so calm approach is there

on it, we could have a acidinc one if it was set to be in open in chandra+rahu

in Makara this step I took from past experiences in forums

when Budha is vakri

chandra with nodes or malefics we see troubled atmosphere so good sharing time

is when chandra is unaflicted so hope members use such times and post info based

messages.

Prashant

____________ _________ _________ __

panditarjun2004 <panditarjun2004@ >