Ayanamsha Can't be Removed fron Vedic Astrology! 21/5

May 20, 2009

1Members.

the confusion if Vedas or our ancestors used Ayanamsa etc r not valid

just like did they use Bhava charts [chalit charts]

as each area had the factored aspect of ayanamsa built into it

after we started using astronomicaly verifiable EPHEMERIS -sidereal ones we

had to do the Ayanamsa corrections on it to get the NIRAYANA positions

- depends on which one. one used max but is inbuilt in the system

if we have the traditional pachagas model that used UJJAIN AS CENTER of our

calander, calculations it is east or west of Ujjain that they considered and as

there was no sideral calculations all that was done ios Nirayana only

similarly chalit is nothing but true local rasi chart

say a RASI as such can be same for most of N India or s India or east India

but when we apply IST or any ST the places's Long determines the time diff and

Lagna, sunrise/set times will difer say Mumbai, calcutta have 29 Min diff

between

them but in actual situation the sun rise, sunset is a lot different say by 4.30

5 pm u can see a sunset in calcutta, Mumbai will have its sunset at 7.30 pr 8 pm

so the use of chalit for the local place matters more due to STANDARD TIME

SAME GOES TO aYANAMSA WHICH IS STANDARD SIDERAL POSITIONS. WITHOUT THE

CORRECTION OF THE Equinoxes which move in a apparent backwards motions per yer

and some point ppl agree it is zero diff ayanamsas use diff zero

points/dats.

if we don't use ayanamsas what people claim a sLeo can be a crab in real

time

this statement was also acknowledged by British astronomers few yrs ago

during a eclipse to see the ZODIAC of one behind abovee our head.THAT IS IF

Ayanamsa correction was done will show the right sign above our head which we r

used to in vedic astrology.

BEST WISHES

I use B V Raman's Ayanamsa only so Dasa, Vargas, Dates will differ from non

Raman's. Pl provide important dates in ur life while posting to verify ur birth

data and to help Lagna verification provide a picture in the Pictures folder in

the group either in the Lagna/rasi one or unknown folder. Consultations outside

the group or to my personal ID are chargeable. see Database section in the group

for more.- G B Prashant Kumar Life Member ICAS.

/database?method=reportRows & tbl=6

________________________________

vinayjhaa16 <vinayjhaa16

Wednesday, May 20, 2009 8:34:44 PM

Ayanamsha Can't be Removed fron Vedic Astrology!

To All,

Mr Prashant Pandey, who owns a small group and is close associate of Mr

AK Kaul of Hindu Calendar group, and Mr Hari Malla with some others

have launched a campaign to remove ayanamsha. Mr AK Kaul has almost no

knowledge of astrology. Once, he computed ayanamsha to be at ~47 degrees

and abused all modern astrologers for following a much reduced ayanamsha

od 23-24 degrees, I had to show him the actual formula and practical

method of computation, after which he dropped all correspondence with me

and appointed Mr Prashant Pandey either to " rectify " me or abuse me away

from all forums. Mr Prashant Pandey has now decided to abuse me away ! I

was astonished to read this false from Mr Prashant Pandey in his

previous post in two astrological forums :

<<<<

Ppl can find that in Suryasidhanta Rashi's are tropical though it is

greatest farce in the name of accuracy and ppl can also find that in

Purans, Rashis are tropical and there was no talk of ayanamsha(non-

sense what we see now-a-days like of Fagan, Ramanji, Lahiri, Vamdev etc

etc... has anybody read in any Verse from PURAN that they have said that

they wrote under dot dot dot ayanamsha). ..... Vedic Hindu Calendar has

no place for Ayanamsha atleast. .... i don't follow any zodiac system

(Tropical and Sidereal) for predictions but i use 12 house systems

>>>>

This fellow does not know that Vedic Astrology cannot survive without

ayanamsha. Suryasiddhanta gives clear rules for computing ayanamsha, yet

he is spreading a falsehood that that raashis were tropical. His uncle

Dr Ramchandra Pandey has quoted Puranic verses which prove that the

concept of ayanamsha was present in Puranas :

à¤®à¥‡à¤¢à¥€à¤à¥‚à¤¤à¥‹ à¤§à¥à¤°à¥à¤µà¥‹

à¤¦à¤¿à¤µà¤¿ à¥¤

à¤¸ à¤¹à¤¿ à¤à¥à¤°à¤®à¤¨à¥ à¤à¥à¤°à¤¾à¤®à¤¯à¤¤à¥‡

à¤—à¥à¤°à¤¹à¥ˆà¤ƒ à¤¸à¤¹ à¥¤à¥¤

(Uttanapaada- putrau-asau medhi-bhooto Dhruvo divi,

sa hi bhraman bhraamayate nityam Chandraadityau grahaih saha.)

" Uttaanapaada' s son Dhruva is fixed like an immovable post in the sky,

(but) Dhruva himself moves, taking alongwith him all planets like Moon

and Sun. "

This motion of Dhruva is a proof of ayanamsha. I have quoted this

Puranic verse from the book of Mr Prashant Pandey's uncle Dr

Ramchandra Pandey (former HOD of BHU). Mr Prashant Pandey should ask his

uncle, who is my friend, for this verse.

Similarly, Suryasiddhanta says

à¤à¤¾à¤¨à¤¾à¤‚ à¤šà¤•à¥à¤°à¥‡ à¤ªà¥à¤°à¤¾à¤•à¥

à¤ªà¤°à¤¿à¤²à¤®à¥à¤¬à¤¤à¥‡ " ( trinshat-krityo yuge bhaanaam

chakre praak parilambate) , which means " the circle of nakshatras

(bhaanam chakra or bhachakra) falls back and forth like pendulum

(pari-lambate) 600 times in a mahaayuga or once in 7200 years) " . The

maximum extent is 27 degrees, and there are four quartets of 1800 years

each. This concept of trepidating ayanamsha was used by all astrologers

of India and West till Renaissance, including Copernicus, after which

orbital precession was superimposed upon trepidating ayanamsha by those

moderners who had no interest in Vedic Astrology. They falsely claimed

that Suryasiddhanta gave a wrong view of orbital precession, although

Bhaskara-ii quoted Suryasiddhanta for deducing an amazingly accurate

value of orbital precession in his Siddhanta Shiromani which had been

translated into English in 1860 but has been consistently either

neglected or misinterpreted. For details, see Click_Here

<http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ Ayanamsha+ vs+Precession>

(http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ Ayanamsha+ vs+Precession).

I have informed many members of this team, like Mr AK Kaul and Mr Hari

Malla, about these proofs. But they have no respect for proofs, which

convinces me they have some agenda. If Mr Prashant Pandey is really

serious, he should ponder some time to understand this message and

follow the link, and should forward this message to Mr AK Kaul who might

have missed previous messages. Mr Hari Malla has read all these, and

reverts to his tape recorded version dogmatically irrespective of facts

and arguments, there is no need to send this message again to a hater of

math and facts.

This team is not going to stop its campaign. If they are not countered,

they will misinform the ignorant public about false interpretations of

Suryasiddhanta, Puranas and Vedas.

No member of this team is an astrologer, excepting Mr Prashant Pandey,

but even Mr Pandey is an " extraordinary " astrologer who claims that he

follows neither tropical nor sidereal system and yet used 12 house

system !!! His lagna and other 11 bhaavas and planets are neither

tropical nor sidereal. Can anyone fathom out the depth of knowledge of

this person ??

-Vinay Jha

============ ======== ============ =

May 21, 2009

The bottom-line is:

From our GEO-oriented vantage point (includes both centric and topical

perspectives) there are two ways of describing the apparent path of sun (created

by the earth making its rounds around the Sun):

Solar orientation which is based on the north-southerly apparent oscillations of

the sun (actually earth again is responsible) that gives us the seasons and the

solstices and equinoxes. The Tropical point of view of the ecliptical motion.

Stellar orientation which is based on the stars, the WYSIWYG (what you see is

what you get, an old GUI term!) and that then gives the sidereal zodiac.

Both have been effectively utilized, and neither is superior or inferior really.

I have seen experts in either school providing very good and useful information

to their clients etc, and I have seen experts in both schools misleading their

clients and so we are all humans.

It is like reading a mystery novel to use an analogy. One enjoys it only when it

becomes an exploration and one does not enter the book with an answer or the

answer in mind. The entire book, the unfolding, the experience in that case

becomes a waste of time.

If one has already figured our which zodiac is correct and which is not,as if

there is a black and white in this reality -- honestly (!), then they are

wasting their time!

Since (and if?) they already know THE answer and the one and only and ideal,

they are ready to transcend astrology and rise higher and try even higher forms

of Spiritual Illumination!

A certain 'flexibility' is important when learning languages. Several languages

at the same time! Interestingly, when children learn, they can learn many

languages at the same time without getting confused, but when older people try

to do so, they get all tangled up and confused. Here age is not the important

thing, but synaptic plasticity is! Openess and not rigidity. One can move faster

when surrounded by water than when one's feet are surrounded by mud or worse:

concrete!

I wish astrologers (including jyotishis) spent less time in their politics and

petty squabbles and focused more on the short time we all were given in each

lifetime for so many things to be accomplished.

Including the COSMIC SYMBOLIC LANGUAGE known as Astrology!

Apple written in any language still tastes the same as someone wrote recently.

We should stop fighting over whether Apple is the right word or Seb is or pome

or whatever. Shall we focus on the other more important realities and benefits

of the 'apple' instead? Its taste, its vitamins, its energy-giving sugars, its

other health benefits and above all the fact that ONE A DAY KEEPS THE DOCTORS

AWAY!

Surely, you all see the merit in that?

Astrology done daily may not keep all your troubles away but if each of us can

make just one or two person go back to their lives happy, hopeful or at least at

peace and in acceptance of their fate and decree and growingly subservient to

God, would you not like to be the divinator that sees that such happens?

You can write books and indulge in all kinds of shastrarths and other essential

martian akhaadabaji techniques and accomplishments in the internet bazaar with

its chintzy reality, but one will be better remembered by the moon and venus

that we all have but would not offer, and when moon and venus are offered above

all, the wisdom of Jupiter just comes along for Jupiter exalts in moon's sign,

venus exalts in jupiter's sign, moon exalts in the sign of venus ...

, Prashant Kumar G B <gbp_kumar

wrote:

>

> 1Members.

>

> the confusion if Vedas or our ancestors used Ayanamsa etc r not valid

>

> just like did they use Bhava charts [chalit charts]

>

> as each area had the factored aspect of ayanamsa built into it

>

> after we started using astronomicaly verifiable EPHEMERIS -sidereal ones we

> had to do the Ayanamsa corrections on it to get the NIRAYANA positions

> - depends on which one. one used max but is inbuilt in the system

>

> if we have the traditional pachagas model that used UJJAIN AS CENTER of our

> calander, calculations it is east or west of Ujjain that they considered and

as

> there was no sideral calculations all that was done ios Nirayana only

> similarly chalit is nothing but true local rasi chart

>

> say a RASI as such can be same for most of N India or s India or east India

> but when we apply IST or any ST the places's Long determines the time diff and

> Lagna, sunrise/set times will difer say Mumbai, calcutta have 29 Min diff

between

> them but in actual situation the sun rise, sunset is a lot different say by

4.30

> 5 pm u can see a sunset in calcutta, Mumbai will have its sunset at 7.30 pr 8

pm

> so the use of chalit for the local place matters more due to STANDARD TIME

>

> SAME GOES TO aYANAMSA WHICH IS STANDARD SIDERAL POSITIONS. WITHOUT THE

> CORRECTION OF THE Equinoxes which move in a apparent backwards motions per yer

> and some point ppl agree it is zero diff ayanamsas use diff zero

> points/dats.

>

> if we don't use ayanamsas what people claim a sLeo can be a crab in real

> time

>

> this statement was also acknowledged by British astronomers few yrs ago

> during a eclipse to see the ZODIAC of one behind abovee our head.THAT IS IF

> Ayanamsa correction was done will show the right sign above our head which we

r

> used to in vedic astrology.

>

> BEST WISHES

>

> I use B V Raman's Ayanamsa only so Dasa, Vargas, Dates will differ from non

Raman's. Pl provide important dates in ur life while posting to verify ur birth

data and to help Lagna verification provide a picture in the Pictures folder in

the group either in the Lagna/rasi one or unknown folder. Consultations outside

the group or to my personal ID are chargeable. see Database section in the group

for more.- G B Prashant Kumar Life Member ICAS.

>

/database?method=reportRows & tbl=6

>

> ________________________________

> vinayjhaa16 <vinayjhaa16

>

> Wednesday, May 20, 2009 8:34:44 PM

> Ayanamsha Can't be Removed fron Vedic Astrology!

>

> To All,

>

> Mr Prashant Pandey, who owns a small group and is close associate of Mr

> AK Kaul of Hindu Calendar group, and Mr Hari Malla with some others

> have launched a campaign to remove ayanamsha. Mr AK Kaul has almost no

> knowledge of astrology. Once, he computed ayanamsha to be at ~47 degrees

> and abused all modern astrologers for following a much reduced ayanamsha

> od 23-24 degrees, I had to show him the actual formula and practical

> method of computation, after which he dropped all correspondence with me

> and appointed Mr Prashant Pandey either to " rectify " me or abuse me away

> from all forums. Mr Prashant Pandey has now decided to abuse me away ! I

> was astonished to read this false from Mr Prashant Pandey in his

> previous post in two astrological forums :

>

> <<<<

> Ppl can find that in Suryasidhanta Rashi's are tropical though it is

> greatest farce in the name of accuracy and ppl can also find that in

> Purans, Rashis are tropical and there was no talk of ayanamsha(non-

> sense what we see now-a-days like of Fagan, Ramanji, Lahiri, Vamdev etc

> etc... has anybody read in any Verse from PURAN that they have said that

> they wrote under dot dot dot ayanamsha). ..... Vedic Hindu Calendar has

> no place for Ayanamsha atleast. .... i don't follow any zodiac system

> (Tropical and Sidereal) for predictions but i use 12 house systems

> >>>>

>

> This fellow does not know that Vedic Astrology cannot survive without

> ayanamsha. Suryasiddhanta gives clear rules for computing ayanamsha, yet

> he is spreading a falsehood that that raashis were tropical. His uncle

> Dr Ramchandra Pandey has quoted Puranic verses which prove that the

> concept of ayanamsha was present in Puranas :

>

> à¤®à¥‡à¤¢à¥€à¤à¥‚à¤¤à¥‹ à¤§à¥à¤°à¥à¤µà¥‹

> à¤¦à¤¿à¤µà¤¿ à¥¤

>

> à¤—à¥à¤°à¤¹à¥ˆà¤ƒ à¤¸à¤¹ à¥¤à¥¤

>

> (Uttanapaada- putrau-asau medhi-bhooto Dhruvo divi,

> sa hi bhraman bhraamayate nityam Chandraadityau grahaih saha.)

>

> " Uttaanapaada' s son Dhruva is fixed like an immovable post in the sky,

> (but) Dhruva himself moves, taking alongwith him all planets like Moon

> and Sun. "

>

> This motion of Dhruva is a proof of ayanamsha. I have quoted this

> Puranic verse from the book of Mr Prashant Pandey's uncle Dr

> Ramchandra Pandey (former HOD of BHU). Mr Prashant Pandey should ask his

> uncle, who is my friend, for this verse.

>

> Similarly, Suryasiddhanta says

> à¤à¤¾à¤¨à¤¾à¤‚ à¤šà¤•à¥à¤°à¥‡ à¤ªà¥à¤°à¤¾à¤•à¥

> à¤ªà¤°à¤¿à¤²à¤®à¥à¤¬à¤¤à¥‡ " ( trinshat-krityo yuge bhaanaam

> chakre praak parilambate) , which means " the circle of nakshatras

> (bhaanam chakra or bhachakra) falls back and forth like pendulum

> (pari-lambate) 600 times in a mahaayuga or once in 7200 years) " . The

> maximum extent is 27 degrees, and there are four quartets of 1800 years

> each. This concept of trepidating ayanamsha was used by all astrologers

> of India and West till Renaissance, including Copernicus, after which

> orbital precession was superimposed upon trepidating ayanamsha by those

> moderners who had no interest in Vedic Astrology. They falsely claimed

> that Suryasiddhanta gave a wrong view of orbital precession, although

> Bhaskara-ii quoted Suryasiddhanta for deducing an amazingly accurate

> value of orbital precession in his Siddhanta Shiromani which had been

> translated into English in 1860 but has been consistently either

> neglected or misinterpreted. For details, see Click_Here

> <http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ Ayanamsha+ vs+Precession>

> (http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ Ayanamsha+ vs+Precession).

>

> I have informed many members of this team, like Mr AK Kaul and Mr Hari

> Malla, about these proofs. But they have no respect for proofs, which

> convinces me they have some agenda. If Mr Prashant Pandey is really

> serious, he should ponder some time to understand this message and

> follow the link, and should forward this message to Mr AK Kaul who might

> have missed previous messages. Mr Hari Malla has read all these, and

> reverts to his tape recorded version dogmatically irrespective of facts

> and arguments, there is no need to send this message again to a hater of

> math and facts.

>

> This team is not going to stop its campaign. If they are not countered,

> they will misinform the ignorant public about false interpretations of

> Suryasiddhanta, Puranas and Vedas.

>

> No member of this team is an astrologer, excepting Mr Prashant Pandey,

> but even Mr Pandey is an " extraordinary " astrologer who claims that he

> follows neither tropical nor sidereal system and yet used 12 house

> system !!! His lagna and other 11 bhaavas and planets are neither

> tropical nor sidereal. Can anyone fathom out the depth of knowledge of

> this person ??

>

> -Vinay Jha

> ============ ======== ============ =

>

May 21, 2009

Dear RRji,

a good post summed up in the last para

//... one will be better remembered by the moon and Venus that we all have

but would not offer, and when moon and Venus are offered above all, the

wisdom of Jupiter just comes along for Jupiter exalts in moon's sign, Venus

exalts in Jupiter's sign, moon exalts in the sign of Venus ... //

it is also refreshing in the time now as the AIA team had a set agenda in a

brief pretension of sharing or friendship in a TROJAN, to finish Vinai ji a

reliable common source said. as they could not first establish a peaceful

atmosphere and then set their agend to discuss , Even though I had assured him

he will not face such a situation here he was apprehensive defensive and

IMPULSIVE LIKE THEM thankfully seems getting better.

[even here i had a tough time bringing Vinay ji to calmer levels] now expect him

to deliver and I know he is working on it.

AS WE NEED NOT OVERstate that there is a shelf life or use by datge for any

product as long as it is fresh in public memory it can be a good situation else

will fade away and has to start afresh all over with newer members genuine or

fake old ones....!.

Prashant

________________________________

Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan

Thursday, May 21, 2009 5:52:09 AM

Re: Ayanamsha Can't be Removed fron Vedic Astrology! 21/5