Ayanamsha , Vedic Astrology! 23/5 & Liars

[Guest guest]

Namasthe,

 

I have been trying to distance myself from these fracases as much as possible.

It is not uncommon that some heat is generated during a hot discussion. However,

being well-educated persons and intelligent than most common people, we have a

responsibility for being civil particularly in a public forum. Unfortunately,

even private mails are even made a matter of discussion that every one shall

agree, is not appropriate. Further, it is also not very good to jump into

conclusions at what others have expressed and try to assert oneself. Some

persons will be good at expressing themselves than others and yet some will be

good at English than others. What is most important is the intention and essence

of what is said. This forum is intended to help others in resolving their

problems (that is what I think it is) and not to create a state of confusion and

distraught. Any common persons who wants to seek help and guidance here, will be

thinking " if these are people are fighting with each other and are confused, how

can they guide me?, is astrology so good to be depended upon? " . Is this the

impression we want to project?.

 

As far as choice of " Ayanamsa " and Suryasidhanta is concerned let me try to

clarify certain points. From time of Vedas, Astrology has never been an

independent branch of study. It was part and parcel of study of Vedas, Smrithis,

Upanishads etc. This means the knowledge of planets / astrology was backed by

the knowledge of Vedas. It was only a small part of the wholesome knowledge. But

since the last 1000 years or so, Astrology was delineated as an independent

branch and separated from the rest of the traditional knowledge. Though it

gained much popularity, much of the true knowledge was lost or ignored in due

course of time. In recent times due to economic upsurge, many books also began

to appear on astrology, which any one can buy and learn. One can imagine the

confusions it has created even by the posts on this very forum.

 

Since Sri Vinay Jha has become the focal point in these discussions, I cannot

but express his name though reluctantly. As far as I understand about his

presentation of Suryasidhanta, there is nothing wrong in it and he is not

entirely wrong in saying that physical astronomy is different from the planets

as deities. Perhaps the problem is the way he express it and passionately too.

Too passionate to the liking of others. We shall understand this better if we

remember the controversy of actual moment of Sun rise. Some acharyas claim that

Sun rise is when the " Bimba " is just above the horizon, some claim it when the

half of soorya bimba is visible and some claim it is when the poorna bimba is

seen above the horizon. Similar controversy exists about the lagna also. Some

people say the time of birth is when the head is seen out side, yet some others

say it is when the cries out and some others claim it is when the whole body

comes out (prishtodaya?). So also the position of other planets will also have

similar difference of opinion.

 

Similarly, as Shri Rohini ji has pointed out every mass has a ring of energy

around it, which we have learned in school doing experiment with magnets and

iron powder. This can be called aura or chaya etc. this means the planets like

any mass of body do have an aura of energy ring outside its physical form. This

is not a new finding. Physical astronomy as Shri Vinay Ji calls it relies on the

position of the physical mass of the body (planet), while considering the area

of magnetic force of influence is also not wrong as we are try to equate the

physical existence and its influence. The lagna chart or rasi chakra as we call

it is sthira chakra, the orientation of planets as we see it from earth. In

reality, the alignment of planets are a little different in outer space. All

these various methods of computations and ayanamsa are an effort to synchronize

the sthira chakra with the alignment of planets in the outer space. Within a

small percentage of difference depending on the size of planets vs its distance

from earth and sun, no one can claim absolute accuracy over the other. Since we

are talking about the orbit of magnetic spectrum which by itself is very

difficult to compute, their influence over effects is also equally difficult to

fathom. The technical term used by astronomers whether modern or traditional

such as geocentric, heliocentric or merucentric all refer to the alignment of

the sthira with the real positions of planets in the outer space which is also

termed chara chakra. As the centers shift from one school of thought to another,

the interpretations may also need to be changed. This can be seen the difference

in various systems like the common (varaha/parasara/jaimini) Vs kp system Vs

Tajik system. The surya chara that defines the day/month.year is also a matter

of controversy due to the actual date In the preset calendar terms of 365.25….

days and 360days (360 spokes of chakra).

 

Pure astronomers may explain the above in a different and more complex language.

 

Our ancient sages have held that we, our surrounding etc are only a smaller

replica of the whole universe or what we call as milky way. This complicates the

matter further. Darshanopanishad provides us an insight on this view.

 

" pi~Ngalaayaa iDaayaaM tu vaayoH saMkramaNaM tu yat

taduttaraayaNaM proktaM mune vedaantavedibhiH "

 

Uttarayana Sankramana occures due to the prana sanchara from Pingala nadi to Eda

Nadi.

 

iDayaaH pi~NgalaayaaM tu praaNasaMkramaNaM mune

dakshiNaayanamityuktaM pi~NgaLaayaamiti shruti

 

Dakshinayana Sankramana occures due the prana sancharana from Eda Nadi to the

Pingala Nadi.

 

iDaapi~NgaLayoH saMdhiM yadaa praaNaH samaagataH

amaavaasyaa tadaa proktaa dehe dehabhritaaM vara

 

Amavaya occures during the union of prana sanchara in Eda Nadi and the Pingala

Nadi

 

muulaadhaaraM yadaa praaNaH praviShTaH paNDitottama

tadaadyaM viShuvaM proktaM taapasaistaapasottama

praaNasaMGYo munishreShTa muurdhaanaM praavishadyadaa

tadantyaM viShuvaM proktaM taapasaistattvachintakaiH

 

Vishu is the point when the prana situates in the Mooladhara and Moordhani

 

niH shvaasocChvaasanaM sarva maasaanaaM saMkramo bhavet

Months occures due to the breathing- inhaling & exhaling process.

 

iDayaa kUNDaliisthaanaM yadaa praaNaH samagataH

somagrahaNamityuktaM tada tatvavidaaM vara

 

Chandra grihana occures when prana in the Eda Nadi reaches the Kundali Sthana.

 

yadaa pi~NgaLayaa praaNaH kuNdaLiisthaanamaagataH

tad tad bhavet suuryagrahaNaM munipu~Ngava..

 

Surya Grihana occcures when the Prana in the pingala nadi reaches the kundali

sthana.

 

From the above one can imagine the depth of this science. What all has to

remember is as soon as we assign a number to a planet like longitudes, it ceases

to be mystic in nature. Hence, there is absolutely no point is saying that one

method is human and the other is divine. It just becomes a way of expression and

the learned members need not be agitated over the use of such expressions.

 

Till a few years back traditional astrologers were dead against computer

generated horoscopes, but has started to accept them. I was playing with

computers when most of the members probably barely knew about its existence

during the early dos3.1 era I created an astrology software with almost 2.5 lack

line of code in c language in early 90's. I have now created much advanced

software with many features suitable for researching and still adding them.

While I am thankful to Shri Vinay ji for providing a software on suryasidhanta,

I sincerely hope that he abstain from jumping into arguments for every posts

even if it doesn't relate to him or for that matter any one. It would be better

if Shri Vinay Ji ignore the musings between Sri VR.Krishna & Shri Rohini Ranjan.

They are old buddies. Truthfully, some times I fail to understand them. But,

Krishna Ji's predictions are at times very accurate with the use " physical

astronomy " like every one else and that is what counts as far as a common person

is concerned. Rohini Ji has a more practical approach to life with his radical

thinking. And Shri Prashant Kumar also is well experienced in astrology.

 

I have been doing research on these subjects now for around 30 years and have

never ceased to be surprised at the amount of information that is still lying

buried in our scriptures. Today I was casually reading Maha Narayanopashid and

came across a verse used in " Mrithika Pooja " , though as a Brahmin, we have used

it several times, I was amused when its real meaning dawned on me.

 

" ashvakraante rathakraante viShNukraante vasundharaa

shirasaa dhaarayiShyaami rakshasva maaM pade pade.. "

 

The learned members can possibly understand its significance and I leave it to

the others to put up some effort.

 

This science is not going to end up with Surya Sindhanta or its efficacy nor

with Shri Vinay Ji or Hari or Sunil or whatever name. Most of the seniors on

this forum are around 50 (I am actually slightly elder than Shri Prashant Kumar)

and with whatever life is left let us try to gain more knowledge and share it to

help others. frankly speaking I dont care as to when this world is going to end

or whether it crosses the 6777whatever population. what I care is about this

life, how we live it and help others to find a little relief in their suffering.

If we consider the word " akalpayath " , all this is going to be repeated in the

next kalpa or yuga, but can't we make this space a more peaceful and useful

one?, rest assured we may meet again.

 

I must thank all the elders including Shri Prasant Kumar as moderator for trying

their best to maintain a level of diplomacy. I beg your pardon if I have sounded

a little harsh or out of context. I was pained by post of Shri Prashant Kumar

about liars (I can imagine the pain he is going through) and to see again a

burst of posts that are just repeats of earlier one which doesn't enhance the

image of this esteemed forum.

 

" satyam bhruuyat priyam bhruuyat "

" na bhruuyat satyaapriyam "

 

One should tell the truth and one should tell what others like, but never tell

the truth in a way that others will dislike. In short, use diplomacy.

 

A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy.

[Guest guest]

Namaste,

 

A very good post by Shri A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy Ji. I will remember his

advice. I hope Prashant Ji will also act diplomatically. People should not feel

astrologers are quarreling among themselves. Even heated discussions should be

carried on without personal remarks.

 

-VJ

 

======================= ==

 

 

________________________________

sureshbabuag <sureshbabuag

 

Saturday, May 23, 2009 9:36:42 PM

Re: Ayanamsha , Vedic Astrology! 23/5 & Liars

 

 

 

 

 

Namasthe,

 

I have been trying to distance myself from these fracases as much as possible.

It is not uncommon that some heat is generated during a hot discussion. However,

being well-educated persons and intelligent than most common people, we have a

responsibility for being civil particularly in a public forum. Unfortunately,

even private mails are even made a matter of discussion that every one shall

agree, is not appropriate. Further, it is also not very good to jump into

conclusions at what others have expressed and try to assert oneself. Some

persons will be good at expressing themselves than others and yet some will be

good at English than others. What is most important is the intention and essence

of what is said. This forum is intended to help others in resolving their

problems (that is what I think it is) and not to create a state of confusion and

distraught. Any common persons who wants to seek help and guidance here, will be

thinking " if these are people

are fighting with each other and are confused, how can they guide me?, is

astrology so good to be depended upon? " . Is this the impression we want to

project?.

 

As far as choice of " Ayanamsa " and Suryasidhanta is concerned let me try to

clarify certain points. From time of Vedas, Astrology has never been an

independent branch of study. It was part and parcel of study of Vedas, Smrithis,

Upanishads etc. This means the knowledge of planets / astrology was backed by

the knowledge of Vedas. It was only a small part of the wholesome knowledge. But

since the last 1000 years or so, Astrology was delineated as an independent

branch and separated from the rest of the traditional knowledge. Though it

gained much popularity, much of the true knowledge was lost or ignored in due

course of time. In recent times due to economic upsurge, many books also began

to appear on astrology, which any one can buy and learn. One can imagine the

confusions it has created even by the posts on this very forum.

 

Since Sri Vinay Jha has become the focal point in these discussions, I cannot

but express his name though reluctantly. As far as I understand about his

presentation of Suryasidhanta, there is nothing wrong in it and he is not

entirely wrong in saying that physical astronomy is different from the planets

as deities. Perhaps the problem is the way he express it and passionately too.

Too passionate to the liking of others. We shall understand this better if we

remember the controversy of actual moment of Sun rise. Some acharyas claim that

Sun rise is when the " Bimba " is just above the horizon, some claim it when the

half of soorya bimba is visible and some claim it is when the poorna bimba is

seen above the horizon. Similar controversy exists about the lagna also. Some

people say the time of birth is when the head is seen out side, yet some others

say it is when the cries out and some others claim it is when the whole body

comes out (prishtodaya? ). So also

the position of other planets will also have similar difference of opinion..

 

Similarly, as Shri Rohini ji has pointed out every mass has a ring of energy

around it, which we have learned in school doing experiment with magnets and

iron powder. This can be called aura or chaya etc. this means the planets like

any mass of body do have an aura of energy ring outside its physical form. This

is not a new finding. Physical astronomy as Shri Vinay Ji calls it relies on the

position of the physical mass of the body (planet), while considering the area

of magnetic force of influence is also not wrong as we are try to equate the

physical existence and its influence. The lagna chart or rasi chakra as we call

it is sthira chakra, the orientation of planets as we see it from earth. In

reality, the alignment of planets are a little different in outer space. All

these various methods of computations and ayanamsa are an effort to synchronize

the sthira chakra with the alignment of planets in the outer space. Within a

small percentage of

difference depending on the size of planets vs its distance from earth and sun,

no one can claim absolute accuracy over the other. Since we are talking about

the orbit of magnetic spectrum which by itself is very difficult to compute,

their influence over effects is also equally difficult to fathom.. The technical

term used by astronomers whether modern or traditional such as geocentric,

heliocentric or merucentric all refer to the alignment of the sthira with the

real positions of planets in the outer space which is also termed chara chakra.

As the centers shift from one school of thought to another, the interpretations

may also need to be changed. This can be seen the difference in various systems

like the common (varaha/parasara/ jaimini) Vs kp system Vs Tajik system. The

surya chara that defines the day/month.year is also a matter of controversy due

to the actual date In the preset calendar terms of 365.25…. days and 360days

(360 spokes of chakra).

 

Pure astronomers may explain the above in a different and more complex language.

 

Our ancient sages have held that we, our surrounding etc are only a smaller

replica of the whole universe or what we call as milky way. This complicates the

matter further. Darshanopanishad provides us an insight on this view.

 

" pi~Ngalaayaa iDaayaaM tu vaayoH saMkramaNaM tu yat

taduttaraayaNaM proktaM mune vedaantavedibhiH "

 

Uttarayana Sankramana occures due to the prana sanchara from Pingala nadi to Eda

Nadi.

 

iDayaaH pi~NgalaayaaM tu praaNasaMkramaNaM mune

dakshiNaayanamityuk taM pi~NgaLaayaamiti shruti

 

Dakshinayana Sankramana occures due the prana sancharana from Eda Nadi to the

Pingala Nadi.

 

iDaapi~NgaLayoH saMdhiM yadaa praaNaH samaagataH

amaavaasyaa tadaa proktaa dehe dehabhritaaM vara

 

Amavaya occures during the union of prana sanchara in Eda Nadi and the Pingala

Nadi

 

muulaadhaaraM yadaa praaNaH praviShTaH paNDitottama

tadaadyaM viShuvaM proktaM taapasaistaapasotta ma

praaNasaMGYo munishreShTa muurdhaanaM praavishadyadaa

tadantyaM viShuvaM proktaM taapasaistattvachin takaiH

 

Vishu is the point when the prana situates in the Mooladhara and Moordhani

 

niH shvaasocChvaasanaM sarva maasaanaaM saMkramo bhavet

Months occures due to the breathing- inhaling & exhaling process.

 

iDayaa kUNDaliisthaanaM yadaa praaNaH samagataH

somagrahaNamityukta M tada tatvavidaaM vara

 

Chandra grihana occures when prana in the Eda Nadi reaches the Kundali Sthana.

 

yadaa pi~NgaLayaa praaNaH kuNdaLiisthaanamaag ataH

tad tad bhavet suuryagrahaNaM munipu~Ngava. .

 

Surya Grihana occcures when the Prana in the pingala nadi reaches the kundali

sthana.

 

From the above one can imagine the depth of this science. What all has to

remember is as soon as we assign a number to a planet like longitudes, it ceases

to be mystic in nature. Hence, there is absolutely no point is saying that one

method is human and the other is divine. It just becomes a way of expression and

the learned members need not be agitated over the use of such expressions.

 

Till a few years back traditional astrologers were dead against computer

generated horoscopes, but has started to accept them. I was playing with

computers when most of the members probably barely knew about its existence

during the early dos3.1 era I created an astrology software with almost 2.5 lack

line of code in c language in early 90's. I have now created much advanced

software with many features suitable for researching and still adding them.

While I am thankful to Shri Vinay ji for providing a software on suryasidhanta,

I sincerely hope that he abstain from jumping into arguments for every posts

even if it doesn't relate to him or for that matter any one. It would be better

if Shri Vinay Ji ignore the musings between Sri VR.Krishna & Shri Rohini Ranjan.

They are old buddies.. Truthfully, some times I fail to understand them. But,

Krishna Ji's predictions are at times very accurate with the use " physical

astronomy " like every one else and that is

what counts as far as a common person is concerned. Rohini Ji has a more

practical approach to life with his radical thinking. And Shri Prashant Kumar

also is well experienced in astrology.

 

I have been doing research on these subjects now for around 30 years and have

never ceased to be surprised at the amount of information that is still lying

buried in our scriptures. Today I was casually reading Maha Narayanopashid and

came across a verse used in " Mrithika Pooja " , though as a Brahmin, we have used

it several times, I was amused when its real meaning dawned on me.

 

" ashvakraante rathakraante viShNukraante vasundharaa

shirasaa dhaarayiShyaami rakshasva maaM pade pade.. "

 

The learned members can possibly understand its significance and I leave it to

the others to put up some effort.

 

This science is not going to end up with Surya Sindhanta or its efficacy nor

with Shri Vinay Ji or Hari or Sunil or whatever name. Most of the seniors on

this forum are around 50 (I am actually slightly elder than Shri Prashant Kumar)

and with whatever life is left let us try to gain more knowledge and share it to

help others. frankly speaking I dont care as to when this world is going to end

or whether it crosses the 6777whatever population. what I care is about this

life, how we live it and help others to find a little relief in their suffering.

If we consider the word " akalpayath " , all this is going to be repeated in the

next kalpa or yuga, but can't we make this space a more peaceful and useful

one?, rest assured we may meet again.

 

I must thank all the elders including Shri Prasant Kumar as moderator for trying

their best to maintain a level of diplomacy. I beg your pardon if I have sounded

a little harsh or out of context. I was pained by post of Shri Prashant Kumar

about liars (I can imagine the pain he is going through) and to see again a

burst of posts that are just repeats of earlier one which doesn't enhance the

image of this esteemed forum.

 

" satyam bhruuyat priyam bhruuyat "

" na bhruuyat satyaapriyam "

 

One should tell the truth and one should tell what others like, but never tell

the truth in a way that others will dislike. In short, use diplomacy.

 

A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Suresh Babu,

 

a good post esp the last line. i have tried v hard to remain awa y from such

nuicance posts but as usual do respond once in a while when it gets too heavy at

times no action /reaction mau feed their ego so high they HAVE BEEN

SYSTEMATICALLY ABUSING ME, VINAY ji, and the OWNER of this group TANVIR ji, just

because they cud not make it to the top here feel I have a vested interest with

the wwner and a both r in some unholy nexus...

 

and if u see jyotish ganga [jealous gutter] AIA, now VA when they have a problem

arguing with Vinay ji why bring me or the owner of JR into it, CAN'T THEY ARGUE

ONLY ON THE TOPIC, it is only a reaction and my job of protecting the good image

of the largest astrological group and I choose the week end when the reaction

will be less but the point is delivered to the offenders.

 

week end most users dom't post as they r using office infrastructure to post

mails, surf and at home enjoy their time.

this was 1st said by ASHUTOSH JI a stricter moderator of JR than me, I felt

giving some leeve way and a mix of diplomacy and tough talk will work

 

Ashutosh ji was v hard, strict from day one may be I may never have tos ee such

times.

 

i will stay away from this for now unless there is too much of -ve flow from

other side

 

Best wishes

 

Prashant

 

 

 

________________________________

sureshbabuag <sureshbabuag

 

Saturday, May 23, 2009 9:36:42 PM

Re: Ayanamsha , Vedic Astrology! 23/5 & Liars

 

 

 

 

 

Namasthe,

 

I have been trying to distance myself from these fracases as much as possible.

It is not uncommon that some heat is generated during a hot discussion. However,

being well-educated persons and intelligent than most common people, we have a

responsibility for being civil particularly in a public forum. Unfortunately,

even private mails are even made a matter of discussion that every one shall

agree, is not appropriate. Further, it is also not very good to jump into

conclusions at what others have expressed and try to assert oneself. Some

persons will be good at expressing themselves than others and yet some will be

good at English than others. What is most important is the intention and essence

of what is said. This forum is intended to help others in resolving their

problems (that is what I think it is) and not to create a state of confusion and

distraught. Any common persons who wants to seek help and guidance here, will be

thinking " if these are people

are fighting with each other and are confused, how can they guide me?, is

astrology so good to be depended upon? " . Is this the impression we want to

project?.

 

As far as choice of " Ayanamsa " and Suryasidhanta is concerned let me try to

clarify certain points. From time of Vedas, Astrology has never been an

independent branch of study. It was part and parcel of study of Vedas, Smrithis,

Upanishads etc. This means the knowledge of planets / astrology was backed by

the knowledge of Vedas. It was only a small part of the wholesome knowledge. But

since the last 1000 years or so, Astrology was delineated as an independent

branch and separated from the rest of the traditional knowledge. Though it

gained much popularity, much of the true knowledge was lost or ignored in due

course of time. In recent times due to economic upsurge, many books also began

to appear on astrology, which any one can buy and learn. One can imagine the

confusions it has created even by the posts on this very forum.

 

Since Sri Vinay Jha has become the focal point in these discussions, I cannot

but express his name though reluctantly. As far as I understand about his

presentation of Suryasidhanta, there is nothing wrong in it and he is not

entirely wrong in saying that physical astronomy is different from the planets

as deities. Perhaps the problem is the way he express it and passionately too.

Too passionate to the liking of others. We shall understand this better if we

remember the controversy of actual moment of Sun rise. Some acharyas claim that

Sun rise is when the " Bimba " is just above the horizon, some claim it when the

half of soorya bimba is visible and some claim it is when the poorna bimba is

seen above the horizon. Similar controversy exists about the lagna also. Some

people say the time of birth is when the head is seen out side, yet some others

say it is when the cries out and some others claim it is when the whole body

comes out (prishtodaya? ). So also

the position of other planets will also have similar difference of opinion.

 

Similarly, as Shri Rohini ji has pointed out every mass has a ring of energy

around it, which we have learned in school doing experiment with magnets and

iron powder. This can be called aura or chaya etc. this means the planets like

any mass of body do have an aura of energy ring outside its physical form. This

is not a new finding. Physical astronomy as Shri Vinay Ji calls it relies on the

position of the physical mass of the body (planet), while considering the area

of magnetic force of influence is also not wrong as we are try to equate the

physical existence and its influence. The lagna chart or rasi chakra as we call

it is sthira chakra, the orientation of planets as we see it from earth. In

reality, the alignment of planets are a little different in outer space. All

these various methods of computations and ayanamsa are an effort to synchronize

the sthira chakra with the alignment of planets in the outer space. Within a

small percentage of

difference depending on the size of planets vs its distance from earth and sun,

no one can claim absolute accuracy over the other. Since we are talking about

the orbit of magnetic spectrum which by itself is very difficult to compute,

their influence over effects is also equally difficult to fathom. The technical

term used by astronomers whether modern or traditional such as geocentric,

heliocentric or merucentric all refer to the alignment of the sthira with the

real positions of planets in the outer space which is also termed chara chakra.

As the centers shift from one school of thought to another, the interpretations

may also need to be changed. This can be seen the difference in various systems

like the common (varaha/parasara/ jaimini) Vs kp system Vs Tajik system. The

surya chara that defines the day/month.year is also a matter of controversy due

to the actual date In the preset calendar terms of 365.25…. days and 360days

(360 spokes of chakra).

 

Pure astronomers may explain the above in a different and more complex language.

 

Our ancient sages have held that we, our surrounding etc are only a smaller

replica of the whole universe or what we call as milky way. This complicates the

matter further. Darshanopanishad provides us an insight on this view.

 

" pi~Ngalaayaa iDaayaaM tu vaayoH saMkramaNaM tu yat

taduttaraayaNaM proktaM mune vedaantavedibhiH "

 

Uttarayana Sankramana occures due to the prana sanchara from Pingala nadi to Eda

Nadi.

 

iDayaaH pi~NgalaayaaM tu praaNasaMkramaNaM mune

dakshiNaayanamityuk taM pi~NgaLaayaamiti shruti

 

Dakshinayana Sankramana occures due the prana sancharana from Eda Nadi to the

Pingala Nadi.

 

iDaapi~NgaLayoH saMdhiM yadaa praaNaH samaagataH

amaavaasyaa tadaa proktaa dehe dehabhritaaM vara

 

Amavaya occures during the union of prana sanchara in Eda Nadi and the Pingala

Nadi

 

muulaadhaaraM yadaa praaNaH praviShTaH paNDitottama

tadaadyaM viShuvaM proktaM taapasaistaapasotta ma

praaNasaMGYo munishreShTa muurdhaanaM praavishadyadaa

tadantyaM viShuvaM proktaM taapasaistattvachin takaiH

 

Vishu is the point when the prana situates in the Mooladhara and Moordhani

 

niH shvaasocChvaasanaM sarva maasaanaaM saMkramo bhavet

Months occures due to the breathing- inhaling & exhaling process.

 

iDayaa kUNDaliisthaanaM yadaa praaNaH samagataH

somagrahaNamityukta M tada tatvavidaaM vara

 

Chandra grihana occures when prana in the Eda Nadi reaches the Kundali Sthana.

 

yadaa pi~NgaLayaa praaNaH kuNdaLiisthaanamaag ataH

tad tad bhavet suuryagrahaNaM munipu~Ngava. .

 

Surya Grihana occcures when the Prana in the pingala nadi reaches the kundali

sthana.

 

From the above one can imagine the depth of this science. What all has to

remember is as soon as we assign a number to a planet like longitudes, it ceases

to be mystic in nature. Hence, there is absolutely no point is saying that one

method is human and the other is divine. It just becomes a way of expression and

the learned members need not be agitated over the use of such expressions.

 

Till a few years back traditional astrologers were dead against computer

generated horoscopes, but has started to accept them. I was playing with

computers when most of the members probably barely knew about its existence

during the early dos3.1 era I created an astrology software with almost 2.5 lack

line of code in c language in early 90's. I have now created much advanced

software with many features suitable for researching and still adding them.

While I am thankful to Shri Vinay ji for providing a software on suryasidhanta,

I sincerely hope that he abstain from jumping into arguments for every posts

even if it doesn't relate to him or for that matter any one. It would be better

if Shri Vinay Ji ignore the musings between Sri VR.Krishna & Shri Rohini Ranjan.

They are old buddies. Truthfully, some times I fail to understand them. But,

Krishna Ji's predictions are at times very accurate with the use " physical

astronomy " like every one else and that is

what counts as far as a common person is concerned. Rohini Ji has a more

practical approach to life with his radical thinking. And Shri Prashant Kumar

also is well experienced in astrology.

 

I have been doing research on these subjects now for around 30 years and have

never ceased to be surprised at the amount of information that is still lying

buried in our scriptures. Today I was casually reading Maha Narayanopashid and

came across a verse used in " Mrithika Pooja " , though as a Brahmin, we have used

it several times, I was amused when its real meaning dawned on me.

 

" ashvakraante rathakraante viShNukraante vasundharaa

shirasaa dhaarayiShyaami rakshasva maaM pade pade.. "

 

The learned members can possibly understand its significance and I leave it to

the others to put up some effort.

 

This science is not going to end up with Surya Sindhanta or its efficacy nor

with Shri Vinay Ji or Hari or Sunil or whatever name. Most of the seniors on

this forum are around 50 (I am actually slightly elder than Shri Prashant Kumar)

and with whatever life is left let us try to gain more knowledge and share it to

help others. frankly speaking I dont care as to when this world is going to end

or whether it crosses the 6777whatever population. what I care is about this

life, how we live it and help others to find a little relief in their suffering.

If we consider the word " akalpayath " , all this is going to be repeated in the

next kalpa or yuga, but can't we make this space a more peaceful and useful

one?, rest assured we may meet again.

 

I must thank all the elders including Shri Prasant Kumar as moderator for trying

their best to maintain a level of diplomacy. I beg your pardon if I have sounded

a little harsh or out of context. I was pained by post of Shri Prashant Kumar

about liars (I can imagine the pain he is going through) and to see again a

burst of posts that are just repeats of earlier one which doesn't enhance the

image of this esteemed forum.

 

" satyam bhruuyat priyam bhruuyat "

" na bhruuyat satyaapriyam "

 

One should tell the truth and one should tell what others like, but never tell

the truth in a way that others will dislike. In short, use diplomacy.

 

A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Namastay Suresh ji,

 

What a beautiful sharing! Thank you very much for taking the time and donating

your energy to this issue/matter that keeps coming back like a bumble bee

hovering over someone who is trying to paint their side of fence so that it

looks pretty {not pretti-er because I do not know how the fence of 'reality'

looks from the other side!} :-)

 

||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

It would be better if Shri Vinay Ji ignore the musings between Sri VR.Krishna &

Shri Rohini Ranjan. They are old buddies. Truthfully, some times I fail to

understand them. But, Krishna Ji's predictions are at times very accurate with

the use " physical astronomy " "

||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

 

Yes Krishnan ji and I go back a while! Although he is a few years younger I call

him 'Dada' because of the scenario in which we met in silicon-reality! That

aside, I may seem to be a bit callous in my post through not giving the entire

nine yards of the 'background' and assuming that the readers already know or

will figure out from earlier verbiage. Partly, this is to avoid further

lengthening my already long-winded replies. The ability to type fast can

sometimes be a burden! Particularly on the readers! Like jyotish, 'typing' came

into my life almost serendipitously, as if by destiny and both became very

crucial in life, mundane and otherwise. But there I go again ...:-)

 

RR

 

 

, " sureshbabuag " <sureshbabuag

wrote:

>

> Namasthe,

>

> I have been trying to distance myself from these fracases as much as possible.

It is not uncommon that some heat is generated during a hot discussion. However,

being well-educated persons and intelligent than most common people, we have a

responsibility for being civil particularly in a public forum. Unfortunately,

even private mails are even made a matter of discussion that every one shall

agree, is not appropriate. Further, it is also not very good to jump into

conclusions at what others have expressed and try to assert oneself. Some

persons will be good at expressing themselves than others and yet some will be

good at English than others. What is most important is the intention and essence

of what is said. This forum is intended to help others in resolving their

problems (that is what I think it is) and not to create a state of confusion and

distraught. Any common persons who wants to seek help and guidance here, will be

thinking " if these are people are fighting with each other and are confused, how

can they guide me?, is astrology so good to be depended upon? " . Is this the

impression we want to project?.

>

> As far as choice of " Ayanamsa " and Suryasidhanta is concerned let me try to

clarify certain points. From time of Vedas, Astrology has never been an

independent branch of study. It was part and parcel of study of Vedas, Smrithis,

Upanishads etc. This means the knowledge of planets / astrology was backed by

the knowledge of Vedas. It was only a small part of the wholesome knowledge. But

since the last 1000 years or so, Astrology was delineated as an independent

branch and separated from the rest of the traditional knowledge. Though it

gained much popularity, much of the true knowledge was lost or ignored in due

course of time. In recent times due to economic upsurge, many books also began

to appear on astrology, which any one can buy and learn. One can imagine the

confusions it has created even by the posts on this very forum.

>

> Since Sri Vinay Jha has become the focal point in these discussions, I cannot

but express his name though reluctantly. As far as I understand about his

presentation of Suryasidhanta, there is nothing wrong in it and he is not

entirely wrong in saying that physical astronomy is different from the planets

as deities. Perhaps the problem is the way he express it and passionately too.

Too passionate to the liking of others. We shall understand this better if we

remember the controversy of actual moment of Sun rise. Some acharyas claim that

Sun rise is when the " Bimba " is just above the horizon, some claim it when the

half of soorya bimba is visible and some claim it is when the poorna bimba is

seen above the horizon. Similar controversy exists about the lagna also. Some

people say the time of birth is when the head is seen out side, yet some others

say it is when the cries out and some others claim it is when the whole body

comes out (prishtodaya?). So also the position of other planets will also have

similar difference of opinion.

>

> Similarly, as Shri Rohini ji has pointed out every mass has a ring of energy

around it, which we have learned in school doing experiment with magnets and

iron powder. This can be called aura or chaya etc. this means the planets like

any mass of body do have an aura of energy ring outside its physical form. This

is not a new finding. Physical astronomy as Shri Vinay Ji calls it relies on the

position of the physical mass of the body (planet), while considering the area

of magnetic force of influence is also not wrong as we are try to equate the

physical existence and its influence. The lagna chart or rasi chakra as we call

it is sthira chakra, the orientation of planets as we see it from earth. In

reality, the alignment of planets are a little different in outer space. All

these various methods of computations and ayanamsa are an effort to synchronize

the sthira chakra with the alignment of planets in the outer space. Within a

small percentage of difference depending on the size of planets vs its distance

from earth and sun, no one can claim absolute accuracy over the other. Since we

are talking about the orbit of magnetic spectrum which by itself is very

difficult to compute, their influence over effects is also equally difficult to

fathom. The technical term used by astronomers whether modern or traditional

such as geocentric, heliocentric or merucentric all refer to the alignment of

the sthira with the real positions of planets in the outer space which is also

termed chara chakra. As the centers shift from one school of thought to another,

the interpretations may also need to be changed. This can be seen the difference

in various systems like the common (varaha/parasara/jaimini) Vs kp system Vs

Tajik system. The surya chara that defines the day/month.year is also a matter

of controversy due to the actual date In the preset calendar terms of 365.25….

days and 360days (360 spokes of chakra).

>

> Pure astronomers may explain the above in a different and more complex

language.

>

> Our ancient sages have held that we, our surrounding etc are only a smaller

replica of the whole universe or what we call as milky way. This complicates the

matter further. Darshanopanishad provides us an insight on this view.

>

> " pi~Ngalaayaa iDaayaaM tu vaayoH saMkramaNaM tu yat

> taduttaraayaNaM proktaM mune vedaantavedibhiH "

>

> Uttarayana Sankramana occures due to the prana sanchara from Pingala nadi to

Eda Nadi.

>

> iDayaaH pi~NgalaayaaM tu praaNasaMkramaNaM mune

> dakshiNaayanamityuktaM pi~NgaLaayaamiti shruti

>

> Dakshinayana Sankramana occures due the prana sancharana from Eda Nadi to the

Pingala Nadi.

>

> iDaapi~NgaLayoH saMdhiM yadaa praaNaH samaagataH

> amaavaasyaa tadaa proktaa dehe dehabhritaaM vara

>

> Amavaya occures during the union of prana sanchara in Eda Nadi and the

Pingala Nadi

>

> muulaadhaaraM yadaa praaNaH praviShTaH paNDitottama

> tadaadyaM viShuvaM proktaM taapasaistaapasottama

> praaNasaMGYo munishreShTa muurdhaanaM praavishadyadaa

> tadantyaM viShuvaM proktaM taapasaistattvachintakaiH

>

> Vishu is the point when the prana situates in the Mooladhara and Moordhani

>

> niH shvaasocChvaasanaM sarva maasaanaaM saMkramo bhavet

> Months occures due to the breathing- inhaling & exhaling process.

>

> iDayaa kUNDaliisthaanaM yadaa praaNaH samagataH

> somagrahaNamityuktaM tada tatvavidaaM vara

>

> Chandra grihana occures when prana in the Eda Nadi reaches the Kundali Sthana.

>

> yadaa pi~NgaLayaa praaNaH kuNdaLiisthaanamaagataH

> tad tad bhavet suuryagrahaNaM munipu~Ngava..

>

> Surya Grihana occcures when the Prana in the pingala nadi reaches the kundali

sthana.

>

> From the above one can imagine the depth of this science. What all has to

remember is as soon as we assign a number to a planet like longitudes, it ceases

to be mystic in nature. Hence, there is absolutely no point is saying that one

method is human and the other is divine. It just becomes a way of expression and

the learned members need not be agitated over the use of such expressions.

>

> Till a few years back traditional astrologers were dead against computer

generated horoscopes, but has started to accept them. I was playing with

computers when most of the members probably barely knew about its existence

during the early dos3.1 era I created an astrology software with almost 2.5 lack

line of code in c language in early 90's. I have now created much advanced

software with many features suitable for researching and still adding them.

While I am thankful to Shri Vinay ji for providing a software on suryasidhanta,

I sincerely hope that he abstain from jumping into arguments for every posts

even if it doesn't relate to him or for that matter any one. It would be better

if Shri Vinay Ji ignore the musings between Sri VR.Krishna & Shri Rohini Ranjan.

They are old buddies. Truthfully, some times I fail to understand them. But,

Krishna Ji's predictions are at times very accurate with the use " physical

astronomy " like every one else and that is what counts as far as a common person

is concerned. Rohini Ji has a more practical approach to life with his radical

thinking. And Shri Prashant Kumar also is well experienced in astrology.

>

> I have been doing research on these subjects now for around 30 years and have

never ceased to be surprised at the amount of information that is still lying

buried in our scriptures. Today I was casually reading Maha Narayanopashid and

came across a verse used in " Mrithika Pooja " , though as a Brahmin, we have used

it several times, I was amused when its real meaning dawned on me.

>

> " ashvakraante rathakraante viShNukraante vasundharaa

> shirasaa dhaarayiShyaami rakshasva maaM pade pade.. "

>

> The learned members can possibly understand its significance and I leave it to

the others to put up some effort.

>

> This science is not going to end up with Surya Sindhanta or its efficacy nor

with Shri Vinay Ji or Hari or Sunil or whatever name. Most of the seniors on

this forum are around 50 (I am actually slightly elder than Shri Prashant Kumar)

and with whatever life is left let us try to gain more knowledge and share it to

help others. frankly speaking I dont care as to when this world is going to end

or whether it crosses the 6777whatever population. what I care is about this

life, how we live it and help others to find a little relief in their suffering.

If we consider the word " akalpayath " , all this is going to be repeated in the

next kalpa or yuga, but can't we make this space a more peaceful and useful

one?, rest assured we may meet again.

>

> I must thank all the elders including Shri Prasant Kumar as moderator for

trying their best to maintain a level of diplomacy. I beg your pardon if I have

sounded a little harsh or out of context. I was pained by post of Shri Prashant

Kumar about liars (I can imagine the pain he is going through) and to see again

a burst of posts that are just repeats of earlier one which doesn't enhance the

image of this esteemed forum.

>

> " satyam bhruuyat priyam bhruuyat "

> " na bhruuyat satyaapriyam "

>

> One should tell the truth and one should tell what others like, but never tell

the truth in a way that others will dislike. In short, use diplomacy.

>

> A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy.

>

[Guest guest]

Namastay Suresh ji,

 

RR Ji has cited a passage about me from your beautiful posting, which may have

finer nuances for him. RR Ji is master of language, making multilayered meanings

in a single statements. Hence, I must clarify two points :

 

<<<< " It would be better if Shri Vinay Ji ignore the musings between Sri

VR.Krishna & Shri Rohini Ranjan. They are old buddies. Truthfully,

some times I fail to understand them. But, Krishna Ji's predictions are

at times very accurate with the use " physical astronomy " >>>>

 

As I gather from previous posts, VR Krishn Ji is nearly equal to me in age and

Shri Rohini Ranjan Ji is senior by a few years, but it does not mean I belong to

a younger generation having no right to discuss topics which are supposedly

reserved for " old buddies " . I have no desire to join the league of " senior "

members here because joining a forum lately is taken as a token of junior

status. Let me remain a junior. Persons one generation junior to me have used

foul language for me, and persons equal to me are old buddies in my comparison.

 

GB Prashant Ji said that Raman Ji's and Gayatri ji's predictions were very good,

hence the method used by them (physical astronomy) is a proven one. RR Ji is

repeating the statement from you which carries same meaning : " Krishna Ji's

predictions are

at times very accurate with the use physical astronomy " .

 

Mr Arun Bansal of Leo Gold and Future Point carried out a statistical count of

good and bad forecasts, and concluded in his editorial that 70% of predictions

are good (all made along physical astronomy). I do not contend his figure. What

I want to say is that a person with good Jyotishi-yogas in his/her own chart

will be on the side of 70% and will almost always make good predictions, and

another person using same software but having no good yogas in his/her own chart

may fall on the side of remaining 30%.

 

Hence, there must be some OBJECTIVE method of deciding the issue. It is wrong

to say that so and so persons used physical astronomy and therefore it is the

only correct method and other methods must be suppressed. This stans presupposes

that all those astrologers of past and present who did not and do not use

pgysical astronomy were making false predictions all the time, and everyone in

India was a fool to believe in their unscientific method and wrong predictions

for thousands of years !

 

Rhetoric will never solve this problem. There are only methods to solve this

issue. One method is impartiam comparison of both methods. Another way is to

abuse me away as a handful of youngstwers are doing, or to suppress my view

without testing as the unreliable views of a newbie as one " old buddy " is trying

to do. RR Ji is also under an oath never to dicsuss real astrology with me.

 

I know the case studies I am preparing now will be ignored by those persons who

have already made up their minds. But it will not stop my work. After posting my

case studies, I will wait for some time, and will then leave all those forums

where impartial comparison of both methods will be deleiberately neglected. At

present, I have some hope that some persons may be interested in impartial

reviews.

 

-Vinay Jha

 

======================== ==

 

 

________________________________

Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan

 

Sunday, May 24, 2009 7:36:13 AM

Re: Ayanamsha , Vedic Astrology! 23/5 & Liars

 

 

 

 

 

Namastay Suresh ji,

 

What a beautiful sharing! Thank you very much for taking the time and donating

your energy to this issue/matter that keeps coming back like a bumble bee

hovering over someone who is trying to paint their side of fence so that it

looks pretty {not pretti-er because I do not know how the fence of 'reality'

looks from the other side!} :-)

 

|||||||||||| ||||||||| ||||||||| ||

It would be better if Shri Vinay Ji ignore the musings between Sri VR.Krishna &

Shri Rohini Ranjan. They are old buddies. Truthfully, some times I fail to

understand them. But, Krishna Ji's predictions are at times very accurate with

the use " physical astronomy " "

|||||||||||| ||||||||| ||||||||| ||

 

Yes Krishnan ji and I go back a while! Although he is a few years younger I call

him 'Dada' because of the scenario in which we met in silicon-reality! That

aside, I may seem to be a bit callous in my post through not giving the entire

nine yards of the 'background' and assuming that the readers already know or

will figure out from earlier verbiage. Partly, this is to avoid further

lengthening my already long-winded replies. The ability to type fast can

sometimes be a burden! Particularly on the readers! Like jyotish, 'typing' came

into my life almost serendipitously, as if by destiny and both became very

crucial in life, mundane and otherwise. But there I go again ...:-)

 

RR

 

, " sureshbabuag " <sureshbabuag@ ...>

wrote:

>

> Namasthe,

>

> I have been trying to distance myself from these fracases as much as possible.

It is not uncommon that some heat is generated during a hot discussion. However,

being well-educated persons and intelligent than most common people, we have a

responsibility for being civil particularly in a public forum. Unfortunately,

even private mails are even made a matter of discussion that every one shall

agree, is not appropriate. Further, it is also not very good to jump into

conclusions at what others have expressed and try to assert oneself. Some

persons will be good at expressing themselves than others and yet some will be

good at English than others. What is most important is the intention and essence

of what is said. This forum is intended to help others in resolving their

problems (that is what I think it is) and not to create a state of confusion and

distraught. Any common persons who wants to seek help and guidance here, will be

thinking " if these are

people are fighting with each other and are confused, how can they guide me?,

is astrology so good to be depended upon? " . Is this the impression we want to

project?.

>

> As far as choice of " Ayanamsa " and Suryasidhanta is concerned let me try to

clarify certain points. From time of Vedas, Astrology has never been an

independent branch of study. It was part and parcel of study of Vedas, Smrithis,

Upanishads etc. This means the knowledge of planets / astrology was backed by

the knowledge of Vedas. It was only a small part of the wholesome knowledge. But

since the last 1000 years or so, Astrology was delineated as an independent

branch and separated from the rest of the traditional knowledge. Though it

gained much popularity, much of the true knowledge was lost or ignored in due

course of time. In recent times due to economic upsurge, many books also began

to appear on astrology, which any one can buy and learn. One can imagine the

confusions it has created even by the posts on this very forum.

>

> Since Sri Vinay Jha has become the focal point in these discussions, I cannot

but express his name though reluctantly. As far as I understand about his

presentation of Suryasidhanta, there is nothing wrong in it and he is not

entirely wrong in saying that physical astronomy is different from the planets

as deities. Perhaps the problem is the way he express it and passionately too.

Too passionate to the liking of others. We shall understand this better if we

remember the controversy of actual moment of Sun rise. Some acharyas claim that

Sun rise is when the " Bimba " is just above the horizon, some claim it when the

half of soorya bimba is visible and some claim it is when the poorna bimba is

seen above the horizon. Similar controversy exists about the lagna also. Some

people say the time of birth is when the head is seen out side, yet some others

say it is when the cries out and some others claim it is when the whole body

comes out (prishtodaya? ). So

also the position of other planets will also have similar difference of

opinion.

>

> Similarly, as Shri Rohini ji has pointed out every mass has a ring of energy

around it, which we have learned in school doing experiment with magnets and

iron powder. This can be called aura or chaya etc. this means the planets like

any mass of body do have an aura of energy ring outside its physical form. This

is not a new finding. Physical astronomy as Shri Vinay Ji calls it relies on the

position of the physical mass of the body (planet), while considering the area

of magnetic force of influence is also not wrong as we are try to equate the

physical existence and its influence. The lagna chart or rasi chakra as we call

it is sthira chakra, the orientation of planets as we see it from earth. In

reality, the alignment of planets are a little different in outer space. All

these various methods of computations and ayanamsa are an effort to synchronize

the sthira chakra with the alignment of planets in the outer space. Within a

small percentage of

difference depending on the size of planets vs its distance from earth and sun,

no one can claim absolute accuracy over the other. Since we are talking about

the orbit of magnetic spectrum which by itself is very difficult to compute,

their influence over effects is also equally difficult to fathom. The technical

term used by astronomers whether modern or traditional such as geocentric,

heliocentric or merucentric all refer to the alignment of the sthira with the

real positions of planets in the outer space which is also termed chara chakra.

As the centers shift from one school of thought to another, the interpretations

may also need to be changed. This can be seen the difference in various systems

like the common (varaha/parasara/ jaimini) Vs kp system Vs Tajik system. The

surya chara that defines the day/month.year is also a matter of controversy due

to the actual date In the preset calendar terms of 365.25…. days and 360days

(360 spokes of chakra).

>

> Pure astronomers may explain the above in a different and more complex

language.

>

> Our ancient sages have held that we, our surrounding etc are only a smaller

replica of the whole universe or what we call as milky way. This complicates the

matter further. Darshanopanishad provides us an insight on this view.

>

> " pi~Ngalaayaa iDaayaaM tu vaayoH saMkramaNaM tu yat

> taduttaraayaNaM proktaM mune vedaantavedibhiH "

>

> Uttarayana Sankramana occures due to the prana sanchara from Pingala nadi to

Eda Nadi.

>

> iDayaaH pi~NgalaayaaM tu praaNasaMkramaNaM mune

> dakshiNaayanamityuk taM pi~NgaLaayaamiti shruti

>

> Dakshinayana Sankramana occures due the prana sancharana from Eda Nadi to the

Pingala Nadi.

>

> iDaapi~NgaLayoH saMdhiM yadaa praaNaH samaagataH

> amaavaasyaa tadaa proktaa dehe dehabhritaaM vara

>

> Amavaya occures during the union of prana sanchara in Eda Nadi and the

Pingala Nadi

>

> muulaadhaaraM yadaa praaNaH praviShTaH paNDitottama

> tadaadyaM viShuvaM proktaM taapasaistaapasotta ma

> praaNasaMGYo munishreShTa muurdhaanaM praavishadyadaa

> tadantyaM viShuvaM proktaM taapasaistattvachin takaiH

>

> Vishu is the point when the prana situates in the Mooladhara and Moordhani

>

> niH shvaasocChvaasanaM sarva maasaanaaM saMkramo bhavet

> Months occures due to the breathing- inhaling & exhaling process.

>

> iDayaa kUNDaliisthaanaM yadaa praaNaH samagataH

> somagrahaNamityukta M tada tatvavidaaM vara

>

> Chandra grihana occures when prana in the Eda Nadi reaches the Kundali Sthana.

>

> yadaa pi~NgaLayaa praaNaH kuNdaLiisthaanamaag ataH

> tad tad bhavet suuryagrahaNaM munipu~Ngava. .

>

> Surya Grihana occcures when the Prana in the pingala nadi reaches the kundali

sthana.

>

> From the above one can imagine the depth of this science. What all has to

remember is as soon as we assign a number to a planet like longitudes, it ceases

to be mystic in nature. Hence, there is absolutely no point is saying that one

method is human and the other is divine. It just becomes a way of expression and

the learned members need not be agitated over the use of such expressions.

>

> Till a few years back traditional astrologers were dead against computer

generated horoscopes, but has started to accept them. I was playing with

computers when most of the members probably barely knew about its existence

during the early dos3.1 era I created an astrology software with almost 2.5 lack

line of code in c language in early 90's. I have now created much advanced

software with many features suitable for researching and still adding them.

While I am thankful to Shri Vinay ji for providing a software on suryasidhanta,

I sincerely hope that he abstain from jumping into arguments for every posts

even if it doesn't relate to him or for that matter any one. It would be better

if Shri Vinay Ji ignore the musings between Sri VR.Krishna & Shri Rohini Ranjan.

They are old buddies. Truthfully, some times I fail to understand them. But,

Krishna Ji's predictions are at times very accurate with the use " physical

astronomy " like every one else and that is

what counts as far as a common person is concerned. Rohini Ji has a more

practical approach to life with his radical thinking. And Shri Prashant Kumar

also is well experienced in astrology.

>

> I have been doing research on these subjects now for around 30 years and have

never ceased to be surprised at the amount of information that is still lying

buried in our scriptures. Today I was casually reading Maha Narayanopashid and

came across a verse used in " Mrithika Pooja " , though as a Brahmin, we have used

it several times, I was amused when its real meaning dawned on me.

>

> " ashvakraante rathakraante viShNukraante vasundharaa

> shirasaa dhaarayiShyaami rakshasva maaM pade pade.. "

>

> The learned members can possibly understand its significance and I leave it to

the others to put up some effort.

>

> This science is not going to end up with Surya Sindhanta or its efficacy nor

with Shri Vinay Ji or Hari or Sunil or whatever name. Most of the seniors on

this forum are around 50 (I am actually slightly elder than Shri Prashant Kumar)

and with whatever life is left let us try to gain more knowledge and share it to

help others. frankly speaking I dont care as to when this world is going to end

or whether it crosses the 6777whatever population. what I care is about this

life, how we live it and help others to find a little relief in their suffering.

If we consider the word " akalpayath " , all this is going to be repeated in the

next kalpa or yuga, but can't we make this space a more peaceful and useful

one?, rest assured we may meet again.

>

> I must thank all the elders including Shri Prasant Kumar as moderator for

trying their best to maintain a level of diplomacy. I beg your pardon if I have

sounded a little harsh or out of context. I was pained by post of Shri Prashant

Kumar about liars (I can imagine the pain he is going through) and to see again

a burst of posts that are just repeats of earlier one which doesn't enhance the

image of this esteemed forum.

>

> " satyam bhruuyat priyam bhruuyat "

> " na bhruuyat satyaapriyam "

>

> One should tell the truth and one should tell what others like, but never tell

the truth in a way that others will dislike. In short, use diplomacy.

>

> A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy.

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Vinay ji

 

as usual u r getting carried away y a few lines and not seeing the ENTIRE

MESSAGE be it sri kirshna ji or one.,

 

i have clearly said if we get to see ur method as clearly as we have seen the

ones I quoted it will be good and wer r all waiting for u to complete the case

studies we did not say we don't care what u say did we?

 

see Gayitri devis predictions at least ty r fresh u can find them also in any

old magazine bazar also recently old

 

and if u can lay ur hands on older Annual numbers and september special issue of

the Astrological magazine u will know what amount of work they have put

 

and if u say one ca get 70% accuracy in physical astronomy that is a good enough

statement for astrology itself irrespective of which system u follow isnt it?

 

and if u say to get 100% u must use Kundali and Chowkamba BPHS this will also be

a tough thing as quite often it is destiny, karma balace sheet of theperson tha

t determines the how intution guides our KNOWLEDGE BASE

 

we may get the right answr straight away or after the person has left and not

reachable and some bad times the person may not even come after a appointmet is

given

 

every aspect has many sides and remember we r all NOT PUSHING ur or abusing u

 

here seniority is more on the no of yrs u spend i a group not by how well we r

qualified as no one physically meet isnt it

 

but RRji has been on the internet based astrlogy forums for decades me max since

92 and forums I entered only indec 05 so ppl in the net or forums may see me as

a 4 yr old inforums not my 32 yrs of work behind me or my 23 yrs with a guru

either.

 

all of them come in the replies we give and feedback we get here all r almost at

a nuteral platform a socialist one I must say.

 

and hope u will clarify in VA and here and JG also that u came here and other

forums as well but at least JR has not treated u badly or abused u or pittied

uagainst someone in VA sunil nair is trying to appease u to get back to AIA

saying i was one who made u quarrel with them

 

if we see even today we r arguing on the contents of our mails we have dealt it

in diploaatic way they have only abused u and everyone who dont fit ther board.

and I have no role in such things how they abuse u but surely did all i can

tosee u r comfortable and peaceful over here.

 

we r demading a demostratable case study or two we have never questioned u, r u

an astrologer at all, do u know abcd of astrology that they r writing on u , me,

akk etc

r u a brahamachari etc they r abusing all sides of u me, AKK.

INSTEAD OF EVEN ATTEMPTING TO STUDY anything did we not see ur death cases here.

and suggested we need a biographicial one why, just to know ur model better.

 

 

Best wishes

 

Prashant

 

 

________________________________

Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16

 

Sunday, May 24, 2009 1:15:01 PM

Re: Ayanamsha , Vedic Astrology! 23/5 & Liars

 

 

 

 

 

Namastay Suresh ji,

 

RR Ji has cited a passage about me from your beautiful posting, which may have

finer nuances for him. RR Ji is master of language, making multilayered meanings

in a single statements. Hence, I must clarify two points :

 

<<<< " It would be better if Shri Vinay Ji ignore the musings between Sri

VR.Krishna & Shri Rohini Ranjan. They are old buddies. Truthfully,

some times I fail to understand them. But, Krishna Ji's predictions are

at times very accurate with the use " physical astronomy " >>>>

 

As I gather from previous posts, VR Krishn Ji is nearly equal to me in age and

Shri Rohini Ranjan Ji is senior by a few years, but it does not mean I belong to

a younger generation having no right to discuss topics which are supposedly

reserved for " old buddies " . I have no desire to join the league of " senior "

members here because joining a forum lately is taken as a token of junior

status. Let me remain a junior. Persons one generation junior to me have used

foul language for me, and persons equal to me are old buddies in my comparison.

 

GB Prashant Ji said that Raman Ji's and Gayatri ji's predictions were very good,

hence the method used by them (physical astronomy) is a proven one. RR Ji is

repeating the statement from you which carries same meaning : " Krishna Ji's

predictions are

at times very accurate with the use physical astronomy " .

 

Mr Arun Bansal of Leo Gold and Future Point carried out a statistical count of

good and bad forecasts, and concluded in his editorial that 70% of predictions

are good (all made along physical astronomy). I do not contend his figure. What

I want to say is that a person with good Jyotishi-yogas in his/her own chart

will be on the side of 70% and will almost always make good predictions, and

another person using same software but having no good yogas in his/her own chart

may fall on the side of remaining 30%.

 

Hence, there must be some OBJECTIVE method of deciding the issue. It is wrong

to say that so and so persons used physical astronomy and therefore it is the

only correct method and other methods must be suppressed. This stans presupposes

that all those astrologers of past and present who did not and do not use

pgysical astronomy were making false predictions all the time, and everyone in

India was a fool to believe in their unscientific method and wrong predictions

for thousands of years !

 

Rhetoric will never solve this problem. There are only methods to solve this

issue. One method is impartiam comparison of both methods. Another way is to

abuse me away as a handful of youngstwers are doing, or to suppress my view

without testing as the unreliable views of a newbie as one " old buddy " is trying

to do. RR Ji is also under an oath never to dicsuss real astrology with me.

 

I know the case studies I am preparing now will be ignored by those persons who

have already made up their minds. But it will not stop my work. After posting my

case studies, I will wait for some time, and will then leave all those forums

where impartial comparison of both methods will be deleiberately neglected. At

present, I have some hope that some persons may be interested in impartial

reviews.

 

-Vinay Jha

 

============ ========= === ==

 

____________ _________ _________ __

Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan@ hotmail.com>

 

Sunday, May 24, 2009 7:36:13 AM

Re: Ayanamsha , Vedic Astrology! 23/5 & Liars

 

Namastay Suresh ji,

 

What a beautiful sharing! Thank you very much for taking the time and donating

your energy to this issue/matter that keeps coming back like a bumble bee

hovering over someone who is trying to paint their side of fence so that it

looks pretty {not pretti-er because I do not know how the fence of 'reality'

looks from the other side!} :-)

 

|||||||||||| ||||||||| ||||||||| ||

It would be better if Shri Vinay Ji ignore the musings between Sri VR.Krishna &

Shri Rohini Ranjan. They are old buddies. Truthfully, some times I fail to

understand them. But, Krishna Ji's predictions are at times very accurate with

the use " physical astronomy " "

|||||||||||| ||||||||| ||||||||| ||

 

Yes Krishnan ji and I go back a while! Although he is a few years younger I call

him 'Dada' because of the scenario in which we met in silicon-reality! That

aside, I may seem to be a bit callous in my post through not giving the entire

nine yards of the 'background' and assuming that the readers already know or

will figure out from earlier verbiage. Partly, this is to avoid further

lengthening my already long-winded replies. The ability to type fast can

sometimes be a burden! Particularly on the readers! Like jyotish, 'typing' came

into my life almost serendipitously, as if by destiny and both became very

crucial in life, mundane and otherwise. But there I go again ...:-)

 

RR

 

, " sureshbabuag " <sureshbabuag@ ...>

wrote:

>

> Namasthe,

>

> I have been trying to distance myself from these fracases as much as possible.

It is not uncommon that some heat is generated during a hot discussion. However,

being well-educated persons and intelligent than most common people, we have a

responsibility for being civil particularly in a public forum. Unfortunately,

even private mails are even made a matter of discussion that every one shall

agree, is not appropriate. Further, it is also not very good to jump into

conclusions at what others have expressed and try to assert oneself. Some

persons will be good at expressing themselves than others and yet some will be

good at English than others. What is most important is the intention and essence

of what is said. This forum is intended to help others in resolving their

problems (that is what I think it is) and not to create a state of confusion and

distraught. Any common persons who wants to seek help and guidance here, will be

thinking " if these are

people are fighting with each other and are confused, how can they guide me?, is

astrology so good to be depended upon? " . Is this the impression we want to

project?.

>

> As far as choice of " Ayanamsa " and Suryasidhanta is concerned let me try to

clarify certain points. From time of Vedas, Astrology has never been an

independent branch of study. It was part and parcel of study of Vedas, Smrithis,

Upanishads etc. This means the knowledge of planets / astrology was backed by

the knowledge of Vedas. It was only a small part of the wholesome knowledge. But

since the last 1000 years or so, Astrology was delineated as an independent

branch and separated from the rest of the traditional knowledge. Though it

gained much popularity, much of the true knowledge was lost or ignored in due

course of time. In recent times due to economic upsurge, many books also began

to appear on astrology, which any one can buy and learn. One can imagine the

confusions it has created even by the posts on this very forum.

>

> Since Sri Vinay Jha has become the focal point in these discussions, I cannot

but express his name though reluctantly. As far as I understand about his

presentation of Suryasidhanta, there is nothing wrong in it and he is not

entirely wrong in saying that physical astronomy is different from the planets

as deities. Perhaps the problem is the way he express it and passionately too.

Too passionate to the liking of others. We shall understand this better if we

remember the controversy of actual moment of Sun rise. Some acharyas claim that

Sun rise is when the " Bimba " is just above the horizon, some claim it when the

half of soorya bimba is visible and some claim it is when the poorna bimba is

seen above the horizon. Similar controversy exists about the lagna also. Some

people say the time of birth is when the head is seen out side, yet some others

say it is when the cries out and some others claim it is when the whole body

comes out (prishtodaya? ). So

also the position of other planets will also have similar difference of opinion.

>

> Similarly, as Shri Rohini ji has pointed out every mass has a ring of energy

around it, which we have learned in school doing experiment with magnets and

iron powder. This can be called aura or chaya etc. this means the planets like

any mass of body do have an aura of energy ring outside its physical form. This

is not a new finding. Physical astronomy as Shri Vinay Ji calls it relies on the

position of the physical mass of the body (planet), while considering the area

of magnetic force of influence is also not wrong as we are try to equate the

physical existence and its influence. The lagna chart or rasi chakra as we call

it is sthira chakra, the orientation of planets as we see it from earth. In

reality, the alignment of planets are a little different in outer space. All

these various methods of computations and ayanamsa are an effort to synchronize

the sthira chakra with the alignment of planets in the outer space. Within a

small percentage of

difference depending on the size of planets vs its distance from earth and sun,

no one can claim absolute accuracy over the other. Since we are talking about

the orbit of magnetic spectrum which by itself is very difficult to compute,

their influence over effects is also equally difficult to fathom. The technical

term used by astronomers whether modern or traditional such as geocentric,

heliocentric or merucentric all refer to the alignment of the sthira with the

real positions of planets in the outer space which is also termed chara chakra.

As the centers shift from one school of thought to another, the interpretations

may also need to be changed. This can be seen the difference in various systems

like the common (varaha/parasara/ jaimini) Vs kp system Vs Tajik system. The

surya chara that defines the day/month.year is also a matter of controversy due

to the actual date In the preset calendar terms of 365.25…. days and 360days

(360 spokes of chakra).

>

> Pure astronomers may explain the above in a different and more complex

language.

>

> Our ancient sages have held that we, our surrounding etc are only a smaller

replica of the whole universe or what we call as milky way. This complicates the

matter further. Darshanopanishad provides us an insight on this view.

>

> " pi~Ngalaayaa iDaayaaM tu vaayoH saMkramaNaM tu yat

> taduttaraayaNaM proktaM mune vedaantavedibhiH "

>

> Uttarayana Sankramana occures due to the prana sanchara from Pingala nadi to

Eda Nadi.

>

> iDayaaH pi~NgalaayaaM tu praaNasaMkramaNaM mune

> dakshiNaayanamityuk taM pi~NgaLaayaamiti shruti

>

> Dakshinayana Sankramana occures due the prana sancharana from Eda Nadi to the

Pingala Nadi.

>

> iDaapi~NgaLayoH saMdhiM yadaa praaNaH samaagataH

> amaavaasyaa tadaa proktaa dehe dehabhritaaM vara

>

> Amavaya occures during the union of prana sanchara in Eda Nadi and the

Pingala Nadi

>

> muulaadhaaraM yadaa praaNaH praviShTaH paNDitottama

> tadaadyaM viShuvaM proktaM taapasaistaapasotta ma

> praaNasaMGYo munishreShTa muurdhaanaM praavishadyadaa

> tadantyaM viShuvaM proktaM taapasaistattvachin takaiH

>

> Vishu is the point when the prana situates in the Mooladhara and Moordhani

>

> niH shvaasocChvaasanaM sarva maasaanaaM saMkramo bhavet

> Months occures due to the breathing- inhaling & exhaling process.

>

> iDayaa kUNDaliisthaanaM yadaa praaNaH samagataH

> somagrahaNamityukta M tada tatvavidaaM vara

>

> Chandra grihana occures when prana in the Eda Nadi reaches the Kundali Sthana.

>

> yadaa pi~NgaLayaa praaNaH kuNdaLiisthaanamaag ataH

> tad tad bhavet suuryagrahaNaM munipu~Ngava. .

>

> Surya Grihana occcures when the Prana in the pingala nadi reaches the kundali

sthana.

>

> From the above one can imagine the depth of this science. What all has to

remember is as soon as we assign a number to a planet like longitudes, it ceases

to be mystic in nature. Hence, there is absolutely no point is saying that one

method is human and the other is divine. It just becomes a way of expression and

the learned members need not be agitated over the use of such expressions.

>

> Till a few years back traditional astrologers were dead against computer

generated horoscopes, but has started to accept them. I was playing with

computers when most of the members probably barely knew about its existence

during the early dos3.1 era I created an astrology software with almost 2.5 lack

line of code in c language in early 90's. I have now created much advanced

software with many features suitable for researching and still adding them.

While I am thankful to Shri Vinay ji for providing a software on suryasidhanta,

I sincerely hope that he abstain from jumping into arguments for every posts

even if it doesn't relate to him or for that matter any one. It would be better

if Shri Vinay Ji ignore the musings between Sri VR.Krishna & Shri Rohini Ranjan.

They are old buddies. Truthfully, some times I fail to understand them. But,

Krishna Ji's predictions are at times very accurate with the use " physical

astronomy " like every one else and that is

what counts as far as a common person is concerned. Rohini Ji has a more

practical approach to life with his radical thinking. And Shri Prashant Kumar

also is well experienced in astrology.

>

> I have been doing research on these subjects now for around 30 years and have

never ceased to be surprised at the amount of information that is still lying

buried in our scriptures. Today I was casually reading Maha Narayanopashid and

came across a verse used in " Mrithika Pooja " , though as a Brahmin, we have used

it several times, I was amused when its real meaning dawned on me.

>

> " ashvakraante rathakraante viShNukraante vasundharaa

> shirasaa dhaarayiShyaami rakshasva maaM pade pade.. "

>

> The learned members can possibly understand its significance and I leave it to

the others to put up some effort.

>

> This science is not going to end up with Surya Sindhanta or its efficacy nor

with Shri Vinay Ji or Hari or Sunil or whatever name. Most of the seniors on

this forum are around 50 (I am actually slightly elder than Shri Prashant Kumar)

and with whatever life is left let us try to gain more knowledge and share it to

help others. frankly speaking I dont care as to when this world is going to end

or whether it crosses the 6777whatever population. what I care is about this

life, how we live it and help others to find a little relief in their suffering.

If we consider the word " akalpayath " , all this is going to be repeated in the

next kalpa or yuga, but can't we make this space a more peaceful and useful

one?, rest assured we may meet again.

>

> I must thank all the elders including Shri Prasant Kumar as moderator for

trying their best to maintain a level of diplomacy. I beg your pardon if I have

sounded a little harsh or out of context. I was pained by post of Shri Prashant

Kumar about liars (I can imagine the pain he is going through) and to see again

a burst of posts that are just repeats of earlier one which doesn't enhance the

image of this esteemed forum.

>

> " satyam bhruuyat priyam bhruuyat "

> " na bhruuyat satyaapriyam "

>

> One should tell the truth and one should tell what others like, but never tell

the truth in a way that others will dislike. In short, use diplomacy.

>

> A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy.

>