Ayanamsha Can't be Removed fron Vedic Astrology! 23/5

May 23, 2009

Vinay ji

i have said manytimes and this is from experience in this good group none of us

have the material like the ones u 1st got entangled into so be assured u can't

get it even if u ask for such treatment and as they r not active here u r on

safer grounds

also remember a few things

when such learned and scientificilly qualified and with a traditional knowledge

base to back him Sri Vattem Krishna jis has the best of both worlds and in a

desirable mix too

u must notget carried away by sanskrit universities as they r far few in no

the INDIAN PUBLIC MUST BE TAUGHT ITS IMPORTANCE THE BEST WAY IS ENROLL MORE

FOREIGN STUDENTS, THEY LEARN AND GO ABROAD AND RE-EXPORT IT OR PATENT SOMETHING

OUR SECULAR GOVT WILL ACCEPT IT

PATENTS ON HALDI, NEEM, BASMATI, are a case in point

all future forfecasts that u PRESENT HERE CAN HELP us understand u better than

some past ones even if it is a time consuming one say Monsoon forecasts of this

yr can be seen straight away max by Oct u will get our

feedback/appreciation/critism whatever

BY proven one is what has been so far used in Mundame astrology we can think of

4 big names Late B V RAMAN ji, LACHANDAS [bABAJI] K N RAO ji, Gayithri devi

vasudev BV RAMANS DAUGHTER HAS EQUALLED OR EVEN BETTER THAN HER FATHER INSEVERAL

FORECASTS WHICH need time and a team to do better.

if these could predict consistantly with their apporach it is a PROVEN one and

if what u are bringing back to us [as u say was lost/forgotten etc] this also

has to be tested by forecasts by its readers, students and then only we can see

experts in it

remember also none of us have access to the chowkamba BPHS wich is needed apart

from ur s/w to see with ur approach.

u will be amazed to read the forecasts raman ji and others have made

K N RAO ji had tabulated some of them in a book let which were made min 2-3 yrs

in advance

be it political, world affairs, weather, health WARS etc...

there is one forecast KN RAO ji had quoted of a cattle disease out break inUP

yrs before and did happen the combinations r given for it in the book

similalry in Oct 87 raman ji had predicted in March 88 Bangladesh will have

floods, cyclones, floods, cyclones, floods did happen that too non monsoon time.

he had also said inthat time Yan saang suuchi will win th eelection and militry

rule will be there and she will be in jail

KN RAO ji i will leave it to Sri krishnaji to quote

Babaji had predicted the Tiamen squire uprising and the crushing it by force and

several other such incidents. gives successful forecasts in next month issue of

the events and the original forecast also along side

gayathri devi had precited rajivs's assination a surprise new PM YRS BEFORE AND

EVEN 2 MONTHS BEFORE in a public gather attended by cong leaders

SHE HAD PREDICTED VAJPAYES fall due to JJ and relected as PM later

JJ will win and be unseated and re-instated 6 months later she had predicted

both John kary and Bush Jr will win and Bush will be president how many can do

this-can there be 2 winners?

these r tested principles unless we find something as convincing and BETTER it

is not easy for anyone to try

remember ppl will try as they have tied KP, SYSTEMS APPROACH, SJC principles etc

so it is not new ppl will accept

change is always a tough call and time consuming ppl wanting change have to more

patient

remember v r giving u the time, space, opportunity and shorter the shelf life of

expectation the better for u, til then this can be a tricky issue that what we

accept, belive and what u accept and belive will be at odds but we r not

discarding or not open to see ur views must be clear by the time u have spent

here

so try this SW and NE monsoon forecasts for major cities

look at Bhopal and MP today

s news says people r willing to sell blood for water 3 ppl died due to clashes

or collecting leaking water so a forecast will help

dont doubt us we r as much eager to know

but till then we will use what we r used to use.

Best wishes

Prashant

________________________________

vinayjhaa16 <vinayjhaa16

Saturday, May 23, 2009 5:52:41 PM

Re: Ayanamsha Can't be Removed fron Vedic Astrology! 21/5

Dear Friends,

Since Shri Vattem Krishnan Ji has assured that he is for ideological

discussion and testing and not for personal remarks ( " some difference in

opinion is permeated. Of course never intend for person oriented

approach " ), I hope he and others here will show this open minded and

tolerant attitude in judging my replies, which should not be taken

personally. My intention is not to offend anyone, esp Vattem Krishnan

Ji, but some points need clarification.

Following remarks of Vattem Krishnan Ji shows that he views a particular

approach as the only proven and accepted approach, which is actually far

from the actual situation in India esp outside the world of computers :

<<<<

" Till now we are convinced about the role of physical movements of

Astral bodies and significance of Ayanamsa.. "

" So total denial from accepted norms and being adopted /followed leads

to a very piquant situation questioning the credibility of jyotish

itself. Till other approaches reach to the level of acceptance, falls

short of scientific parameter. Any further emphasis and condemning the

extant practices certainly gives an impression of lack of vision/short

sightedness. "

" The intention is not to disturb in the present juncture till he/himself

is convinced that his approach/theory is total and takes care all

aspects of Astrology. "

" That way we are all neutral "

>>>>

How many Sanskrit universities and panchangas accept this

" neutral...physical ...scientific. ..accepted norms " which Vattem

Krishnan Ji is presenting as the universally accepted norms in Vedic

Astrology ? All editions of Hrikesha Panchanga (~700,000 copies) from

Varanasi reach more homes than the combined number of computerized

astrologers in India. And Hrikesha Panchanga is not the only Panchanga

which uses " short sighted...non- physical. ..unscientific. ..unaccepted

norms " .

Suryasiddhanta and its commentaries or related texts constitute about

80% - 100 % of Ganitacharya syllabus in all those universities which are

ettitled to offer Jyotishaachaarya degrees as per UGC norms. Modrern

physical astronomy is not even a part of Jyotisha syllabus.

The problem is that these traditional pandits are not proficient in

using computers and internet. There absence from internet gives Vattem

Krishnan Ji a wrong feeling that traditional view put forth by me is

against the norms. It is the internet version of Vedic Astrology which

is against the academic norms. I did not want to use such harsh terms,

but Vattem Krishnan Ji wants dictatorial censorship on my approach ( " not

to disturb in the present juncture till he/himself is convinced that his

approach/theory is total and takes care all aspects of Astrology " ).

What does he mean by " approach/theory is total and takes care all

aspects of Astrology " ? Is his own approach " total and takes care all

aspects of Astrology " ? Is he God, to expect omniscience from me ?

Another sign of his refusal to test or discuss ideas to which he is not

accustomed is his view : " Till other approaches reach to the level of

acceptance, falls short of scientific parameter. Any further emphasis

and condemning the extant practices certainly gives an impression of

lack of vision/short sightedness. " As he wants no emphasis on any

" unacceptable " approach, this " unacceptable " approach will never become

" acceptable " due to refusal to discuss and test. The approach based on

physical astronomy became popular among computer users just because

Sanskrit professors did not know programming and all programmers were

science graduates. To test all approaches impartially is being dubbed as

short-sightedness by Vattem Krishnan Ji and to stick to a particular

approach is neutrality !! He says : " we are all neutral " , excluding me

like a pariah and this exclusion of a different approach is a sign of

neutrality and far-sightedness ! This socalled scientific approach

became popular among computer users just because its software came first

in market and traditional approach was late in being computerized, which

does not mean the alternative approach has no takers : much more

horoscopes are still being made from a single Hrikesha panchanga than

from all softwares of Vedic Astrology combined, and this " scientific "

approach is out of prescribed syllabi too.

Vattem Krishnan Ji is creating a doubt in the mind of others that I am

not convinced of my own approach. : " not to disturb in the present

juncture till he/himself is convinced that his approach/theory is total

and takes care all aspects of Astrology " . How much and what types of

proofs he needs ? Here are some, which he must have seen before :

(1) My rain forecasts were verified by Climate branch of NASA's

headquarters (Goddard Space Flight Centre). They will not verify or even

touch forecasts of an unknown person, esp an astrologer. I had to get

recognized as a scientist.

(2) Chief Executive of Britains' Royal Meteorological Society found my

rain forecasts to be interesting and asked me send my paper in their

journal. They do not ask unless they find some worth.

(3) I wrote a paper for Britains' Royal Meteorological Society, but

later sent it to Indian Institute of Science, Bangalore, which accepted

it after examination by referees and then I was invited at their

international conference on Monsoons to present my approach.

(4)All Sanskrit universities and many panchanga makers of six Hindi

speaking states of India unanimously decide, after a day long

discussion, that all panchangas should be made on the basis of

Suryasiddhanta. Heated discussions took place from morning to night,

since two of the Sanskit universities particopating in that conference

publish panchanga from data taken from Positional Astronomy Centre of

Calcutta but are teaching Suryasiddhanta instead of modern astronomy.

Scanned copies of all these four major proofs can be seen at Click_Here

<http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ NASA%27s_ Report%3B_ %26_my_Paper_ ac\

cepted_by_CAOS% 2C_IISc>

(http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ NASA%27s_ Report%3B_ %26_my_Paper_ ac\

cepted_by_CAOS% 2C_IISc) , under following headings :

1).Verification of Vinay Jha's Rain Forecast by NASA

2).Call by Royal Met. Society for Paper

3).Acceptance of Vinay Jha's Paper by CAOS, IISc, Bangalore

4).Consensus about Suryasiddhanta to be the Basis for National

Panchangas

Further proofs can be seen by Clicking_Here

<http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ Credentials>

(http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ Credentials) , where a scanned

copy of an order by the Vice Chancellor of a recognized Sanskrit

university is placed. I had lodged a case in Patna High Court that this

university is not teaching its own syllabus properly, as a result of

which its own panchanga was being made along faulty lines. After a court

order of probe, three pandit sabhas were organized, in which respondents

were dead against me because I had charged them of incompetence. But I

won the case due to presence of scholars of all types, including even

outside that state, who supported my stand.

All these institutions can be directly contacted to verify whether I am

lying or not, these institutions are not my pocket fora as AIA is where

all my credentials were pooh-poohed as lies!! They do not want proofs.

And some persons who abused me also tried to sell my software,

unsuccessfully, through download.com at the same time.

There are many other government and private institutions which are

publishing panchangas from my free softwares ( Click_Here

<http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ Vinay_Jha> ;

http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ Vinay_Jha), including Govardhana

Peeth of Puri's Shri Shankaraachaarya Ji and Bihar Rajya Sanskrit

Academy. Many Sanskrit Academies and universities has invited to deliver

lectures on Jyotisha, but in internet fora most of my time is wasted in

useless controversies raised over my credibility.

Shri Vattem Krishnan Ji has taken care not to use foul words, but he is

certainly not taking me as a serious person ( " till he/himself is

convinced that his approach/theory is total " ).

Kundalee software is being distributed since 2005, and I joined fora

only recently after which most of my time is being wasted over useless

controversies.

I request Shri Vattem Krishnan Ji to forget Kundalee if he thinks it is

made by a " myopic " person interested in raising " hoax claims " who is

" not convinced of his own approach " . Such " neutral " words convinces me

that he will either never touch Kundalee, and even if does so he will be

guided by his peculiar " neutrality " .

If Shri Vattem Krishnan Ji is so sure of his own approoach, why he is

apprehensive that a myopic person, who is doubtful of his own approach

and who has no team of his own, can disturb the status quo in internet

fora ?? Has Krishnan Ji no faith in the dictum : Truth shall prevail.

Let those persons test Kundalee who want to test it. And let those keep

away from from it who have decided it is not worth testing. We live in a

democratic society. Why a call for censorship ( " not to disturb in the

present juncture till he/himself is convinced " ) ? Are all those

institutions and scholars " myopic " who verified my " hoax " approach after

testing ?

Shri Vattem Krishnan Ji should not take my remarks as personal offence

(I have no bad feeling for his remarks, even for some of his words which

seem to be offensive if viewed from a personalized angle, because I

understand his misgivings are genuine, but based on a refusal to test).

The time I wasted over writing this reply could have been devoted to

adding more case studies, which I am now doing, which may be reviewed

by those who want to test my ancient but not out-of-date approach.

Sincerely,

-Vinay Jha

============ ====== ===

, vattem krishnan <bursar_99@. ..>

wrote:

>

> Dear Friends,

> healthy Group will be constructives and improves the Group's

image.Even few exception that creep in can be taken.i agree as jyotish

belongs to intellectuals some difference in opinion is

permeated.Ofcourse never intend for person oriented approach.

> The efforts being made by Shri Prashant ji are laudable and JR being

in a public domain ,some times we may come across very few havingâ”¬

motives for accusation. while every one wish for freedom in

communication, we need to however remember that in public domain there

are certainly limitations. These limitations are meant for maintaining

harmony, peace and encourage sincere people to take up issues that needs

further researchâ”¬

> The group enjoys the benefit of having learned people and who are also

prolific writers and willing to sparetime â”¬ to educate all/some of us

that helps in a long way.

> I am confident in such an â”¬ environment no room for insinuations

and personal attacks. when views/ideas are expressed, it is felt that

healthy group discussions are ideal ways to understand the view. it is

quite possible that these views are expressed with out any fear and

favour and certainly not directed for indictment.

> Siddhnatic approaches to explore jyotish have always their own role

and significance in the Developmental Astrology. That is how this great

subject has evolved fromâ”¬ sruti to e media. In the process concepts

not originally brought out in classics may get evolved needing proper

understanding/ clarifications. These clarifications find support for

people to adopt and own them. others may not and may have their own

views..So total denial from accepted norms and being adopted /followed

leads to a very piquant situation questioning the credibility of jyotish

itself. Till other approaches reach to the level of acceptance, falls

short of scientific parameter. Any further emphasis and condemning the

extant practices certainly gives an impression of lack of vision/short

sightedness. The attempted approaches/views are just the preferences of

the persons involved in development of theories. we along with JR â”¬

have been always happy with such views and have no

> hesitation for making trials with out raising any objections. I am

hopeful that entire group stands with their trials and tribulations.

There is no room at all for any other interpretation and bringing

personalities in to the fore. Authors of ideas/convictions are well

respected and they should not have any doubt in this regard.

> In this context I had personally conveyed to Mr Vinay Ji and also

clarified issues. The intention is not to disturb in the present

juncture till he/himself is convinced that his approach/theory is total

and takes care all aspects of Astrology.

> Till now we are convinced about the role of physical movements of

Astral bodies and â”¬ significance of Ayanamsa without giving credence

to any body or lahiri/Raman. No hesitation also to deviate further a more

reliable â”¬ way is found out and jyotish stands to gain by that

approach. That way we are all neutral. Most of the Seniors in the

grouplike Shri Suresh Ji,Praveen ji, Prashnat ji,Rohit ji and Arjun Ji

and myself expressed viewsâ”¬ concerning flexibility for

developmentâ”¬ purpose and desired also asâ”¬ such. jyotish concepts

are very broad and have universal application and base.

> with best regards

> vrkrishnan

>

> --- On Sat, 5/23/09, Vinay Jha vinayjhaa16@ ... wrote:

>

> Vinay Jha vinayjhaa16@ ...

> Re: Ayanamsha Can't be Removed fron Vedic Astrology!

21/5

>

> Saturday, May 23, 2009, 4:18 AM

>

To All :

>

> The seasoned astrologer Arjun Ji (panditarjun2004) has rightly

stressed the need to maintain two things : " TALKING TERMS and DICUSSION

MODE " . Mr AK Kaul got irritated because he is not an astrologer and has

no experience of real problems faced by astrologers. Instead, he

believes astrology a fase and anti-Vedic discipline. When I tried to

discuss, he dropped correspondence and his follower Mr Prashant Pandey

started abusing me after some time, who is nephew of my friend and is

one generation junior to me.. I asked Mr Prashant Pandey to request Mr

AK Kaul to answer my queries, but got no answer (Mr AKK repeats the

colonial propaganda of Vedaanga Jyotisha being a work of 1300 BC, I

asked him not to rely on Colebrooke and try to prove it from original

text, which he will never be able to prove).

>

> Irritation is a proof of inability to answer. Arjun Ji perhaps does

not know that I am in discussion mode and talking terms with even those

persons who are abusing me without any provocation. I tolerated abuses

in AIA for two weeks, without ever abusing in return, but when I was

convinced that moderators were hishonest and they even started editing

my messages to invert my meanings, I had to quit that group. i tried my

best to maintain " TALKING TERMS and DICUSSION MODE " with abusers, but

they did not want any discussion, because they had a vested interest :

Mr Chandrahari propounded a new theory (which he has a right to), but

used a deliberate misinterpretation of Suryasiddhanta to get canonical

justification. When Mr Chandrahari knew I made a Suryasiddhantic

software, he started issuing fatwas of espelling and " killing " me,

refusing to discuss anything with me (because he feared exposure of his

wrong ayanamsha theory, although I did not want to attack

> him). This is the root of all problem. Unless you understand a

problem, you cannot cure it. As long as Mr Chandrahari will continue

propounding a false theory of ayanamsha in the name of Suryasiddhanta,

he and his followers will continue to try " killing " me, or at least

abusing me.This ayanamsha of Mr Chandrahari caused disruption of their

relations with followers of Pt Sanjay Rath and PVR. If dozens of correct

or incorrect ayanamshas can be experimented with, there should be no

objection to trying Chandrahari Ayanamsha. But Mr Chandrahari should not

spread lies about Suryasiddhanta, because his ayanamsha is not based

upon Suryasiddhanta and is his own invention. Theoretically, it is

better than Chitaapakshiya Lahiri ayanamsha, because Chitraa was never

starting poing of Indian Zodiac, while Chandrahari Ayanamsha is based on

real starting poing of Indian Zodiac. But the value he gives will make

my software wrong astrologically. Instead of discussing

> this intellectual problem intellectually, Mr Chandrahariand his team

took resort to abusing and other undesirable tactics. Mr AK is similarlr

intolerant, but does not stoop to such standards, although he ignored my

messages when I informed him that his follower was abusing me personally

because I do not accept his anti-astrological and biased views, which

convinced me that even Mr AK Kaul relished abuses hurled at me. Which

type of Dharma these intolerant and abusibe persons want to propagate

can be seen from their personal behaviour.

>

> These persons want to disrupt fair discussions in JR, JG and VA

through real and fake IDs. It is a well concerted manoeuvre which

moderators of these fora must keep a vigil on. Mr GB Prashant is doing

well in warning us of these disruptive designs of a handful of persons.

>

> Astrologers must maintain " TALKING TERMS and DICUSSION MODE " with

other astrologers, in spite of differences, but vigilance against

non-astrologers like AKK & c and pseudo-astrologers like Sunil Nair & c

must not be ignored.. They are not going to be reformed by means of

sermons.

>

> -Vinay Jha

>

> ============ ========= ======== ===

>

> ____________ _________ _________ __

> panditarjun2004 <panditarjun2004@ >

>

> Saturday, May 23, 2009 7:49:00 AM

> Re: Ayanamsha Can't be Removed fron Vedic Astrology!

21/5

>

> dear friends

>

> what RRji has summed up in few mails in an exhaustive manner, besides

the wise observations of krishnanji are conclusive enough to highlight

the need of the hour to mutually coexist peacefully with various

systems, streams and lines of astrology even to gauge the planets.

>

> many are using lahiri and prashantji is using raman for decades but

querents as well as fraternity are coexisting peacefully. rasi dasa and

even other dasas are used by great jyotish masters in other groups with

whom too no one has any problem.

>

> hence i request every one (querents, readers, fraternity all alike) to

accept the fact that there are numerous ways to believe jyotish, see

planets, read charts, calculate things and lastly predict various

things. if systems approach is not accepted here, it is accepted by

hundreds of those who believe in it elsewhere. so are various other ways

of prognostic divination even within the labelled vedic astrology aka

jyotish.

>

> on a positive note, all discussions in this group are healthy so far

and i request prashantji not to quote, cite and refer to what is

happening elsewhere in other groups and focus only on what is happening

here in this group. if he finds positives here, he may praise and give a

pat on the back of those who deserve but please do not criticise others

who are elsewhere and on what they are doing elsewhere. simply put,

positive PR of JR is fine but no negative PR of other groups. this would

make prashantji an even tall person with high maturity and wisdom to

ignore what is happening in other houses and setting the own house in

order and maintaining the same in a best manner which prashantji has

already done and is receiving compliments since an year.

>

> as regards vinayji, almost all members here by now can observe that he

is in TALKING TERMS and is in DICUSSION MODE on each and every thing he

presents which some or many may not accept or not convinced or not

comfortable to change from their previous beliefs.

>

> when AK Kaulji came few years ago and was presenting new theories of

wrong dates, almost all groups were engaged in discussion and he was in

talking terms initially. later on kaulji has become impatient,

intolerant and started imposing and started branding all disbelievers of

him as fools. it is only then that all the groups disengaged with him.

>

> since vinayji is willing to show, present and convince what he is

doing, kindly treat him as a researcher and till now he is displaying

much more wisdom and maturity than kaulji by answering the mails,

clarifying the doubts etc.

>

> for those who are aware, i may remember the medieval ways when a

scholar from one state used to get invited by other states where none

follow his systems or beliefs and the scholar feels privileged to go,

tell what all he knew and answer all doubts which last for several days

or months and in many cases he convinces the audience of other states to

adopt his knowledge. same way religious gurus or their shishyas spread

even in the not so medieval history.

>

> a true jnani has the ganges of knowledge within his brain and can

quench the thirst of n number of querents by answering all queries with

equal smile. kaulji is irritant and intolerant to those who ask

questions while vinayji is happy to answer the queries. two phrases are

key for any scholar in such situations TALKING TERMS AND DISCUSSION

MODE. feel the querents and critics as audience and respect them by

answering their queries, clarifying their doubts till the Q & A session is

over. once it is over, in the best case scenario, the presenter will get

a big hand or a standing ovation if the audience is happy.

>

> with best wishes and blessings

> pandit arjun

> www.rudraksharemedy .com

>

> , " Rohiniranjan "

<rohini_ranjan@ ...> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Shri Vinay Ji,

> >

> > I cannot speak for Shri Krishnan ji but although he was too generous

with his praises about the quoted article, he probably was not

necessarily thinking of you specifically when he was referring to the

eye conditions. And I do not think he is the kind of person who

deliberately likes to press other people's " buttons " and he, like me,

does not enjoy confrontations just for the sake of confronting.

> >

> > I am not trying to be diplomatic here or to try and divert all of us

from yet another Mahabharata of Bits and Bytes, but perhaps if all of

you would allow me, a refocusing may be what the doctor ordered for all

of us as the expression goes :-)

> >

> > People tend to get used to a certain framework over years of

familiarity and if things seem to function more or less, would you not

agree? Until someone comes along with a " paradigm shift " to offer. If

things are not working or they are desperate, the paradigm shift is not

only felt inconvenient, it meets with resistance! Part of the resistance

you are facing, allow me to say, is because you are introducing a

paradigm shift. When you say that SS planetary positions are not the

same as the visible planets, it shakes the roots of belief that people

already have. Some get curious, others get mildly amused, still others

get upset and react confrontationally. Compounding the situation what

has been working against you is the problems people are experiencing in

installing and using your software. I do not think there is a conspiracy

or people intentionally ganging up on you and against you. Now you may

have gotten familiar and convinced by the opposite

> thought and my statement may not be coming across convincingly

perhpas.

> >

> > Let us leave that and get to the core of the issue as I see and

sense it. You have made the statement that SS positions are different

from the visible or apparent ones used by the majority for decades if

not longer. Perhaps you should put a bit more focus on the WHY of this

difference. How and Why are the SS-planets different from the physical

planets? The concept is not new to me as I have heard something along

those lines even in my early days when learning jyotish and have seen

panchaangs with such 'variable' differences from ayanamsha-corrected

positions in Raphael and other ephemeris. I personally find the idea

rather intriguing and interesting that the Devas as Planets are called

in our lingo could very well be like the aura that surrounds the

vehicle-human body. We see the body of the planets when we peer through

our telescopes or ephemeris but perhaps like human beings, the planets

which are all intensively personified in our symbology anyway,

> perhaps have similar realities. I have often wondered if the aspects

of planets are not akin to human thoughts? Right now, my body is here

tapping away at the keyboard but my mind is talking to you. This is an

extreme example but do you think something like that explains the

discrepancy between the SS and visible positions of planets? The body of

the planet is easy to see but perhaps it too has a mind and a soul and

the two latter may just be extensions of one entity, if you catch my

drift. Perhaps SS is pointing our attention to that fact? Perhaps just

as our words, our thoughts our minds often influence others more than

our body can, the SS positions become more effective or more relevant in

certain if not all situation and become better prognosticators?

> >

> > Please feel free to point out the error in my thinking. I am

basically speculating and guessing and not speaking from personal

knowledge or experience of SuryaSiddhanta reality.

> >

> > You have done a wonderful job so far when you share without feeling

marginalized or attacked. I hope your Guruji's voice that is part of

your inner voice would agree with me on that point. Again, I am simply

guessing ...

> >

> > Best regards,

> >

> > Rohiniranjan

> >

> > , Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ >

wrote:

> > >

> > > What an " intelligent " and civil medicine by VK for glaucoma/

cataract/ myopia , esp from a " respected " astrologer !!! I see the

point. Thanks for such remarks.

> > >

> > > -VJ

> > >

> > > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > > vattem krishnan <bursar_99@>

> > >

> > > Friday, May 22, 2009 7:23:17 AM

> > > Re: Ayanamsha Can't be Removed fron Vedic Astrology!

21/5

> > >

> > > Dear Dada,

> > > Those two cents are not really for numerical purpose and really

the URL helps to remove/glaucoma/ cataract/ myopia if any is there in

vision and perfectly necessary to supplement.

> > > hats off

> > > vrkrishan

> > >

> > > --- On Thu, 5/21/09, Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan@ hotmail.com>

wrote:

> > >

> > > Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan@ hotmail.com>

> > > Re: Ayanamsha Can't be Removed fron Vedic Astrology!

21/5

> > >

> > > Thursday, May 21, 2009, 9:41 PM

> > >

> > > Sorry, should have included this URL here as well...

> > >

> > > http://boloji. com/astro/ 00337.htm

> > >

> > > , " Rohiniranjan "

<rohini_ranjan@ ...> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Kumar ji,

> > > >

> > > > At a certain core level, humans in general have two abilities: a

love and recognition for TRUTH and an ability to change/grow! Without

these truths we all would be still living in caves, eating raw meat and

clubbing our true or perceived enemies to immediate death, no questions

asked. Of course the last one is an exaggeration perhaps.

> > > >

> > > > But seriously, take for instance Jyotish or astrology in

general. Such MIGHTY forces tried to annihilate its very existence

whether it be ignorant masses, powerful dictators, powerful churches.

Perhaps the light grew feeble at times and observers must have feared

extinction. Now God knows how many years and centuries or millennia

later, it breathes strong, and even grows and multiplies! We now have so

many different kinds of astrology that the growth and numbers scare

some!

> > > >

> > > > What I am trying to say that Vinay Ji as an individual does not

matter (Apologies Vinay Ji, if I am coming across as diminuitive, or

disrespectful) . The point is that Surya siddhanta has remained a

mystery and Vinay Ji is just another matchstick that is trying to light

up the " lamp " , although I must admit, he is matchless (pun intended!). I

am sure there were others and there will be more. If human beings get

impatient and attack or try to annihilate an individual or his or her

words, what is new? The " human culture " has seen all of this many many

times, if Vinay Ji cannot do what is his mission, I am sure there will

be others who will carry the torch and mission.

> > > >

> > > > Isn't that why we still have Jyotish even in our modern

degenerate times and yuga, even after Jyotish is all fractured and

splinted and bandaged, some purists lament but all the same living and

breathing strongly and when its pulse was checked last, SHE was even

helping other patients in the ward live or at least feel less pain!

> > > >

> > > > When any of us get anxious and hopeless that all ancient vidyas

would suddenly vanish and what not, we are really showing our lack of

belief and faith in the SOURCE of all this knowledge!

> > > >

> > > > Already a long post (though not by my usual stamina!), I better

stop!

> > > >

> > > > RR

> > > >

> > > > , Prashant Kumar G B

<gbp_kumar@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear RRji,

> > > > >

> > > > > a good post summed up in the last para

> > > > > //... one will be better remembered by the moon and Venus that

we all have

> > > > > but would not offer, and when moon and Venus are offered above

all, the

> > > > > wisdom of Jupiter just comes along for Jupiter exalts in

moon's sign, Venus exalts in Jupiter's sign, moon exalts in the sign of

Venus ... //

> > > > >

> > > > > it is also refreshing in the time now as the AIA team had a

set agenda in a brief pretension of sharing or friendship in a TROJAN,

to finish Vinai ji a reliable common source said. as they could not

first establish a peaceful atmosphere and then set their agend to

discuss , Even though I had assured him he will not face such a

situation here he was apprehensive defensive and IMPULSIVE LIKE THEM

thankfully seems getting better.

> > > > >

> > > > > [even here i had a tough time bringing Vinay ji to calmer

levels] now expect him to deliver and I know he is working on it.

> > > > >

> > > > > AS WE NEED NOT OVERstate that there is a shelf life or use by

datge for any product as long as it is fresh in public memory it can be

a good situation else will fade away and has to start afresh all over

with newer members genuine or fake old ones....!.

> > > > >

> > > > > Prashant

> > > > >

> > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > > > > Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan@ >

> > > > >

> > > > > Thursday, May 21, 2009 5:52:09 AM

> > > > > Re: Ayanamsha Can't be Removed fron Vedic

Astrology! 21/5

> > > > >

> > > > > The bottom-line is:

> > > > >

> > > > > From our GEO-oriented vantage point (includes both centric and

topical perspectives) there are two ways of describing the apparent path

of sun (created by the earth making its rounds around the Sun):

> > > > >

> > > > > Solar orientation which is based on the north-southerly

apparent oscillations of the sun (actually earth again is responsible)

that gives us the seasons and the solstices and equinoxes. The Tropical

point of view of the ecliptical motion.

> > > > >

> > > > > Stellar orientation which is based on the stars, the WYSIWYG

(what you see is what you get, an old GUI term!) and that then gives the

sidereal zodiac.

> > > > >

> > > > > Both have been effectively utilized, and neither is superior

or inferior really. I have seen experts in either school providing very

good and useful information to their clients etc, and I have seen

experts in both schools misleading their clients and so we are all

humans.

> > > > >

> > > > > It is like reading a mystery novel to use an analogy. One

enjoys it only when it becomes an exploration and one does not enter the

book with an answer or the answer in mind. The entire book, the

unfolding, the experience in that case becomes a waste of time.

> > > > >

> > > > > If one has already figured our which zodiac is correct and

which is not,as if there is a black and white in this reality --

honestly (!), then they are wasting their time!

> > > > >

> > > > > Since (and if?) they already know THE answer and the one and

only and ideal, they are ready to transcend astrology and rise higher

and try even higher forms of Spiritual Illumination!

> > > > >

> > > > > A certain 'flexibility' is important when learning languages.

Several languages at the same time! Interestingly, when children learn,

they can learn many languages at the same time without getting confused,

but when older people try to do so, they get all tangled up and

confused. Here age is not the important thing, but synaptic plasticity

is! Openess and not rigidity. One can move faster when surrounded by

water than when one's feet are surrounded by mud or worse: concrete!

> > > > >

> > > > > I wish astrologers (including jyotishis) spent less time in

their politics and petty squabbles and focused more on the short time we

all were given in each lifetime for so many things to be accomplished.

> > > > >

> > > > > Including the COSMIC SYMBOLIC LANGUAGE known as Astrology!

> > > > >

> > > > > Apple written in any language still tastes the same as someone

wrote recently. We should stop fighting over whether Apple is the right

word or Seb is or pome or whatever. Shall we focus on the other more

important realities and benefits of the 'apple' instead? Its taste, its

vitamins, its energy-giving sugars, its other health benefits and above

all the fact that ONE A DAY KEEPS THE DOCTORS AWAY!

> > > > >

> > > > > Surely, you all see the merit in that?

> > > > >

> > > > > Astrology done daily may not keep all your troubles away but

if each of us can make just one or two person go back to their lives

happy, hopeful or at least at peace and in acceptance of their fate and

decree and growingly subservient to God, would you not like to be the

divinator that sees that such happens?

> > > > >

> > > > > You can write books and indulge in all kinds of shastrarths

and other essential martian akhaadabaji techniques and accomplishments

in the internet bazaar with its chintzy reality, but one will be better

remembered by the moon and venus that we all have but would not offer,

and when moon and venus are offered above all, the wisdom of Jupiter

just comes along for Jupiter exalts in moon's sign, venus exalts in

jupiter's sign, moon exalts in the sign of venus ...

> > > > >

> > > > > , Prashant Kumar G B

<gbp_kumar@ ..> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 1Members.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > the confusion if Vedas or our ancestors used Ayanamsa etc r

not valid

> > > > > >

> > > > > > just like did they use Bhava charts [chalit charts]

> > > > > >

> > > > > > as each area had the factored aspect of ayanamsa built into

it

> > > > > >

> > > > > > after we started using astronomicaly verifiable EPHEMERIS

-sidereal ones we

> > > > > > had to do the Ayanamsa corrections on it to get the NIRAYANA

positions

> > > > > > - depends on which one. one used max but is inbuilt in the

system

> > > > > >

> > > > > > if we have the traditional pachagas model that used UJJAIN

AS CENTER of our

> > > > > > calander, calculations it is east or west of Ujjain that

they considered and as

> > > > > > there was no sideral calculations all that was done ios

Nirayana only

> > > > > > similarly chalit is nothing but true local rasi chart

> > > > > >

> > > > > > say a RASI as such can be same for most of N India or s

India or east India

> > > > > > but when we apply IST or any ST the places's Long determines

the time diff and

> > > > > > Lagna, sunrise/set times will difer say Mumbai, calcutta

have 29 Min diff between

> > > > > > them but in actual situation the sun rise, sunset is a lot

different say by 4.30

> > > > > > 5 pm u can see a sunset in calcutta, Mumbai will have its

sunset at 7.30 pr 8 pm

> > > > > > so the use of chalit for the local place matters more due to

STANDARD TIME

> > > > > >

> > > > > > SAME GOES TO aYANAMSA WHICH IS STANDARD SIDERAL POSITIONS.

WITHOUT THE

> > > > > > CORRECTION OF THE Equinoxes which move in a apparent

backwards motions per yer

> > > > > > and some point ppl agree it is zero diff ayanamsas use diff

zero

> > > > > > points/dats.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > if we don't use ayanamsas what people claim a sLeo can be a

crab in real

> > > > > > time

> > > > > >

> > > > > > this statement was also acknowledged by British astronomers

few yrs ago

> > > > > > during a eclipse to see the ZODIAC of one behind abovee our

head.THAT IS IF

> > > > > > Ayanamsa correction was done will show the right sign above

our head which we r

> > > > > > used to in vedic astrology.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > BEST WISHES

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I use B V Raman's Ayanamsa only so Dasa, Vargas, Dates will

differ from non Raman's. Pl provide important dates in ur life while

posting to verify ur birth data and to help Lagna verification provide a

picture in the Pictures folder in the group either in the Lagna/rasi one

or unknown folder. Consultations outside the group or to my personal ID

are chargeable. see Database section in the group for more.- G B

Prashant Kumar Life Member ICAS.

> > > > > > http://groups. / group/Jyotish_ Remedies/ database?

method=reportRow s & tbl=6

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > > > > > vinayjhaa16 <vinayjhaa16@ ...>

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Wednesday, May 20, 2009 8:34:44 PM

> > > > > > Ayanamsha Can't be Removed fron Vedic

Astrology!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > To All,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Mr Prashant Pandey, who owns a small group and is close

associate of Mr

> > > > > > AK Kaul of Hindu Calendar group, and Mr Hari Malla with some

others

> > > > > > have launched a campaign to remove ayanamsha. Mr AK Kaul has

almost no

> > > > > > knowledge of astrology. Once, he computed ayanamsha to be at

~47 degrees

> > > > > > and abused all modern astrologers for following a much

reduced ayanamsha

> > > > > > od 23-24 degrees, I had to show him the actual formula and

practical

> > > > > > method of computation, after which he dropped all

correspondence with me

> > > > > > and appointed Mr Prashant Pandey either to " rectify " me or

abuse me away

> > > > > > from all forums. Mr Prashant Pandey has now decided to abuse

me away ! I

> > > > > > was astonished to read this false from Mr Prashant Pandey in

his

> > > > > > previous post in two astrological forums :

> > > > > >

> > > > > > <<<<

> > > > > > Ppl can find that in Suryasidhanta Rashi's are tropical

though it is

> > > > > > greatest farce in the name of accuracy and ppl can also find

that in

> > > > > > Purans, Rashis are tropical and there was no talk of

ayanamsha(non-

> > > > > > sense what we see now-a-days like of Fagan, Ramanji, Lahiri,

Vamdev etc

> > > > > > etc... has anybody read in any Verse from PURAN that they

have said that

> > > > > > they wrote under dot dot dot ayanamsha). ..... Vedic Hindu

Calendar has

> > > > > > no place for Ayanamsha atleast. .... i don't follow any

zodiac system

> > > > > > (Tropical and Sidereal) for predictions but i use 12 house

systems

> > > > > > >>>>

> > > > > >

> > > > > > This fellow does not know that Vedic Astrology cannot

survive without

> > > > > > ayanamsha. Suryasiddhanta gives clear rules for computing

ayanamsha, yet

> > > > > > he is spreading a falsehood that that raashis were tropical.

His uncle

> > > > > > Dr Ramchandra Pandey has quoted Puranic verses which prove

that the

> > > > > > concept of ayanamsha was present in Puranas :

> > > > > >

Ñ€Ð´â–‘Ñ€ÐµÐ›Ñ€Ð´â•œÑ€Ð´â••Ñ€ÐµÐœ

> > > > > > Ñ€Ð´Ð¾Ñ€ÐµÐ—Ñ€Ð´Ð²Ñ€ÐµÐÑ€Ð´Ð½Ñ€ÐµÐ’Ñ€Ð´Ð´Ñ€ÐµÐ›

Ñ€Ð´Ð·Ñ€ÐµÐÑ€Ð´â–‘Ñ€ÐµÐ‘Ñ€Ð´â•¡Ñ€ÐµÐ›

> > > > > > Ñ€Ð´Ð¶Ñ€Ð´â”Ñ€Ð´â•¡Ñ€Ð´â” Ñ€ÐµÐ´

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Ñ€Ð´â•• Ñ€Ð´â•£Ñ€Ð´â” Ñ€Ð´Ð½Ñ€ÐµÐÑ€Ð´â–‘Ñ€Ð´Ð¾Ñ€Ð´Ð¸Ñ€ÐµÐ

Ñ€Ð´Ð½Ñ€ÐµÐÑ€Ð´â–‘Ñ€Ð´â•›Ñ€Ð´Ð¾Ñ€Ð´Ð¿Ñ€Ð´Ð´Ñ€ÐµÐ—

> > > > > > Ñ€Ð´Ð¸Ñ€Ð´â”Ñ€Ð´Ð´Ñ€ÐµÐÑ€Ð´Ð¿Ñ€Ð´Ð’

Ñ€Ð´ÐªÑ€Ð´Ð¸Ñ€ÐµÐÑ€Ð´Ð¶Ñ€ÐµÐÑ€Ð´â–‘Ñ€Ð´â•›Ñ€Ð´Ð¶Ñ€Ð´â”Ñ€Ð´Ð´Ñ€ÐµÐÑ€Ð´Ð¿Ñ€ÐµÐ\

œ

> > > > > > Ñ€Ð´Ð§Ñ€ÐµÐÑ€Ð´â–‘Ñ€Ð´â•£Ñ€ÐµÐ˜Ñ€Ð´Ð“ Ñ€Ð´â••Ñ€Ð´â•£ Ñ€ÐµÐ´Ñ€ÐµÐ´

> > > > > >

> > > > > > (Uttanapaada- putrau-asau medhi-bhooto Dhruvo divi,

> > > > > > sa hi bhraman bhraamayate nityam Chandraadityau grahaih

saha.)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > " Uttaanapaada' s son Dhruva is fixed like an immovable post

in the sky,

> > > > > > (but) Dhruva himself moves, taking alongwith him all planets

like Moon

> > > > > > and Sun. "

> > > > > >

> > > > > > This motion of Dhruva is a proof of ayanamsha. I have quoted

this

> > > > > > Puranic verse from the book of Mr Prashant Pandey's uncle Dr

> > > > > > Ramchandra Pandey (former HOD of BHU). Mr Prashant Pandey

should ask his

> > > > > > uncle, who is my friend, for this verse.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Similarly, Suryasiddhanta says

> > > > > >

" Ñ€Ð´Ð´Ñ€ÐµÐÑ€Ð´â–‘Ñ€Ð´â”Ñ€Ð´Ð’Ñ€Ð´â•¢Ñ€Ð´Ð´Ñ€ÐµÐÑ€Ð´Ð¥Ñ€ÐµÐ“Ñ€Ð´Ð´Ñ€ÐµÐÑ€Ð´\

Ð¿Ñ€ÐµÐ›

Ñ€Ð´Ð¿Ñ€ÐµÐ‘Ñ€Ð´Ð§Ñ€ÐµÐ—

> > > > > > Ñ€Ð´Ð½Ñ€Ð´â•›Ñ€Ð´Ð¸Ñ€Ð´â•›Ñ€Ð´Ð’ Ñ€Ð´ÐªÑ€Ð´Ð¥Ñ€ÐµÐÑ€Ð´â–‘Ñ€ÐµÐ—

Ñ€Ð´ÐºÑ€ÐµÐÑ€Ð´â–‘Ñ€Ð´â•›Ñ€Ð´Ð¥Ñ€ÐµÐ

> > > > > > Ñ€Ð´ÐºÑ€Ð´â–‘Ñ€Ð´â”Ñ€Ð´â–“Ñ€Ð´Ð¾Ñ€ÐµÐÑ€Ð´Ð¼Ñ€Ð´Ð´Ñ€ÐµÐ— " (

trinshat-krityo yuge

bhaanaam

> > > > > > chakre praak parilambate) , which means " the circle of

nakshatras

> > > > > > (bhaanam chakra or bhachakra) falls back and forth like

pendulum

> > > > > > (pari-lambate) 600 times in a mahaayuga or once in 7200

years) " . The

> > > > > > maximum extent is 27 degrees, and there are four quartets of

1800 years

> > > > > > each. This concept of trepidating ayanamsha was used by all

astrologers

> > > > > > of India and West till Renaissance, including Copernicus,

after which

> > > > > > orbital precession was superimposed upon trepidating

ayanamsha by those

> > > > > > moderners who had no interest in Vedic Astrology. They

falsely claimed

> > > > > > that Suryasiddhanta gave a wrong view of orbital precession,

although

> > > > > > Bhaskara-ii quoted Suryasiddhanta for deducing an amazingly

accurate

> > > > > > value of orbital precession in his Siddhanta Shiromani which

had been

> > > > > > translated into English in 1860 but has been consistently

either

> > > > > > neglected or misinterpreted. For details, see Click_Here

> > > > > > <http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ Ayanamsha+

vs+Precession>

> > > > > > (http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ Ayanamsha+

vs+Precession) .

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I have informed many members of this team, like Mr AK Kaul

and Mr Hari

> > > > > > Malla, about these proofs. But they have no respect for

proofs, which

> > > > > > convinces me they have some agenda. If Mr Prashant Pandey is

really

> > > > > > serious, he should ponder some time to understand this

message and

> > > > > > follow the link, and should forward this message to Mr AK

Kaul who might

> > > > > > have missed previous messages. Mr Hari Malla has read all

these, and

> > > > > > reverts to his tape recorded version dogmatically

irrespective of facts

> > > > > > and arguments, there is no need to send this message again

to a hater of

> > > > > > math and facts.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > This team is not going to stop its campaign. If they are not

countered,

> > > > > > they will misinform the ignorant public about false

interpretations of

> > > > > > Suryasiddhanta, Puranas and Vedas.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > No member of this team is an astrologer, excepting Mr

Prashant Pandey,

> > > > > > but even Mr Pandey is an " extraordinary " astrologer who

claims that he

> > > > > > follows neither tropical nor sidereal system and yet used 12

house

> > > > > > system !!! His lagna and other 11 bhaavas and planets are

neither

> > > > > > tropical nor sidereal. Can anyone fathom out the depth of

knowledge of

> > > > > > this person ??

> > > > > >

> > > > > > -Vinay Jha

> > > > > > ============ ======== ============ =

> > > > > >

May 23, 2009

" Maasair-dvaadashbhir-varsham-ahoraatram tu divi / Tribhirvarsha-shataivarsham

shashtyaa chaiva-asuradvishaam " (verse-10, ch-3, amsha-6, Vishnu Purana). Here,

the meanings of terms are :

" Maasair-dvaadashbhir-varsham " = the year of twelve months

" ahoraatram tu divi " = is ahoraatra (day + night) in the Devaloka (divi)

" Tribhirvarsha-shataivarsham shashtya " = 360 years

" asuradvishaam " = devas (who hated asuras)

Hence, it means " the year of twelve months is ahoraatra in the Devaloka ; 360

years is (year) of the Devas.

Vishnu Purana'a first Amsha, chapter-3, verses 19-21 make it even more clear by

saying that " one manvantara has 852000 " divya " years but 306720000

" maanushai-vatsara " . It gives 360 human years in one divine year. This entire

chapter describes the whole span of Brahmaa ji's life beginning from the

smallest measure of time, and this entire description is perfectly in tune with

Suryasiddhantic figures.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

narayan.iyer

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Prashant ji

I am not " carried away by sanskrit universities " , I had to go to court againt

them ! But after court order, both sides had to put forth their evidences and

scholars from many states, from outside universities were also called to decide

the issue. They were not fools. Wrong verdict and corruption is possible in

secret meetings, not in such heated legal matters when both parties are active.

My opponents even tried to raise the issue of prestige of their university,

because I was an outsider. If such verdicts are false, do you think a few

astrogogers in internet are more reliable for the public at large?

If sanskrit universities are unreliable, what about NASA, Royal Society, IISc ?

I do not mean to say that everyone should believe in all words said by me, but I

am not wrong in saying that Sri Vattem Krishna ji should not brush aside my

works as hoaxes by a myopic person. But if he decides I am unreliable, I cannot

change his opinion.

My method of rain forecast is so simple and clear that anyone can use it. Even a

past case study is a proof of method, because Kundalee and other softwares are

already in public domain and anyone can check whether these case studies are

manipulated or not. For instance, if I present a case study of 1960 AD based on

annual horoscope at the time of mesha samkraanti, others can check whether this

chart is true or false. I am preparing a comparative list of case studies,

comparing Kundalee with JHORA (no insult to JHORA intended, I used it because I

found it to be most reliable mathematically as far as physical astronomy is

concerned).

I am preparing forecasts too. Two features in my mundane method will appear

bizarre to those who have either no faith in or have lost contact with ancient

texts, but my method is very very old, and very very accurate. The method is

100% accurate, but I sometimes make mistakes in predictions due to my human

limitations, as you know charts are sometimes very complicated. But the method

is very simple which all of you already use. If all of you pool efforts jointly,

better predictions can be made out of these charts than I can do alone, which

will raise the presige of Jyotisha.

Chowkamba BPHS is available in all major towns of India, and if do not know

Hindi, you can know English. If someone helps in typing entire Chowkamba BPHS

(original Sanskrit verses) in Mangal font on web, I am ready to translate the

Hindi edition of Chowkhamba into English.

But for using Kundalee Chowkamba BPHS is not essential. All of you already use

same PREDICTIVE principles which I use, excepting some minor differences.

If you mean Raman Ji predicted from physical astronomy, hence physical astronomy

is accurate, may I ask why everyone does not succeed like Raman Ji or Gayatri

Devi ? Raman Ji or Gayatri Devi certainly had fine astrologer yogas which we may

lack. But we cannot borrow or lend such yogas. What we need is such transparent

methods which can be easily transmitted.

Mr Arun Bansal of Future Point (Leo Gold) wrote in his editorial that 70% of

predictions come true. Persons like Raman Ji who had good astrological yogas

happened to make predictions about only these 70% cases (which means 100% of

their predictions should be right), and persons with no such yoga could use the

remaining 30% (which means 100% of their predictions should be wrong). Accuracy

of predictions does not depend upon software alone, astrologer also counts. A

good astrologer will make 80% or 90% good predictions even from a 70% accurate

software, and a bad astrologer may make only 50% good predictions even from a

better software. What we need is a thorough comparative and systematic study,

which needs an unbiased mind.

But like V Krishnan Ji, you say : " these r tested principles unless we find

something as convincing and BETTER it is not easy for anyone to try " . Why

everyone does not succeed like Raman Ji or Gayatri Devi ? If someone has a

better method, you refuse to even try it just because you have some " tested "

method, is there any method to prove that this new method is better ? Testing is

only possible way. But testing with prejudice will not help. Whatever be the

merits of an astrologer, if he/she tests Kundalee with prejudice against, the

result will be cipher, because a prejudiced mind will alwys look for negative

points or will invent them. There are many ways in which one can prove anything

one wants. A lecher once told a monk that the monk was a lecher because his

lagna was Tula ! Only one feature was enough to prove a monk wrong.

Should I mention some of my forecasts ? On Mar 14, 2008, Dainik Bhaaskar

(largest selling Hindi daily in western India) carried a quarter page news on me

in which I predicted that union minister Mr Arjun Singh will lose ministry in

next poll. On 28 Feb, 2009, I predicted at international astrological conference

in Allahabad that Lahore will be blasted this year.. Two major blasts occurred

after that. Mr rain forecasts were verified by even NASA headquarters.

But this time, my election forecast was off the mark : I could not predict so

many seats for Congress, although I knew BJP will not fare well. But I did not

have reliable birthdata of politicians, how could I make reliable forecasts if

accurate birth data is not available ? Most of the celebrities hide their real

data, and case studies of unknown persons will not be valued by others who do

not personally know the native. That is why I think mundane forecasts based on

transit charts are best proofs of accuracy of mathematical model. By transit

chart, I mean Bhaavachalita Chart drawn at the time of solar transit into Mesha

(annual forecast) or into any nakshatra (fortnightly forecasts, till Sun remains

in that nakshatra). All of you know how to interpret a Bhaavachalita chart,

Chowkamba BPHS will not be needed.

You are right in saying " ppl wanting change have to more patient " .

You are again sticking to impossible demands : " so try this SW and NE monsoon

forecasts for major cities "

I have made softwares for predicting world's forecasts with 12 divisions of the

world, and India's forecasts with 12 divisions qaccording to 12 bhaava. I never

tried making for individual towns. I do not know whether such a software is

possible or not. I had told you this before. Secondly, I can make forecasts

according to solar year starting with mesha samkraanti, and according to solar

residence in nakshatras. It is beyond my capacity and desire to make forecasts

according to Christian calendar. You are unwilling to understand that states

like Punjab or Kerala are human creations and ancient Medini Chakras allow

natural or astrological divisions.

And lastly, I must add that due to long messages forced to write today (to

Bhaskar, V. krishnan ji, and to you, I could not add a single case study today.

You ignored my previous message which said " The time I wasted over writing this

reply could have been devoted to adding more case studies, which I am now doing,

which may be reviewed by those who want to test my ancient but not out-of-date

approach. "

It said " The time I wasted... " . I knew my replies are nothing but a wastege of

my time, because past habits cannot be changed by posting messages on internet.

Today I resigned from Hindupedia, because there was not a single astrologer and

everyone was wasting my time by trying to change my views instead of

contributing anything to the article ( Click_Here , even my name has been

removed, although everything on this page was contributed by me, 70% of which

has been removed, because it proved the archaicness and originality of Indian

astrology ; this removed matter may be reused rightly or wrongly).

-Vinay Jha

======================== =====

________________________________

Prashant Kumar G B <gbp_kumar

Saturday, May 23, 2009 7:36:29 PM

Re: Ayanamsha Can't be Removed fron Vedic Astrology! 23/5

Vinay ji

i have said manytimes and this is from experience in this good group none of us

have the material like the ones u 1st got entangled into so be assured u can't

get it even if u ask for such treatment and as they r not active here u r on

safer grounds

also remember a few things

when such learned and scientificilly qualified and with a traditional knowledge

base to back him Sri Vattem Krishna jis has the best of both worlds and in a

desirable mix too

u must notget carried away by sanskrit universities as they r far few in no

the INDIAN PUBLIC MUST BE TAUGHT ITS IMPORTANCE THE BEST WAY IS ENROLL MORE

FOREIGN STUDENTS, THEY LEARN AND GO ABROAD AND RE-EXPORT IT OR PATENT SOMETHING

OUR SECULAR GOVT WILL ACCEPT IT

PATENTS ON HALDI, NEEM, BASMATI, are a case in point

all future forfecasts that u PRESENT HERE CAN HELP us understand u better than

some past ones even if it is a time consuming one say Monsoon forecasts of this

yr can be seen straight away max by Oct u will get our feedback/appreciati

on/critism whatever

BY proven one is what has been so far used in Mundame astrology we can think of

4 big names Late B V RAMAN ji, LACHANDAS [bABAJI] K N RAO ji, Gayithri devi

vasudev BV RAMANS DAUGHTER HAS EQUALLED OR EVEN BETTER THAN HER FATHER INSEVERAL

FORECASTS WHICH need time and a team to do better.

if these could predict consistantly with their apporach it is a PROVEN one and

if what u are bringing back to us [as u say was lost/forgotten etc] this also

has to be tested by forecasts by its readers, students and then only we can see

experts in it

remember also none of us have access to the chowkamba BPHS wich is needed apart

from ur s/w to see with ur approach.

u will be amazed to read the forecasts raman ji and others have made

K N RAO ji had tabulated some of them in a book let which were made min 2-3 yrs

in advance

be it political, world affairs, weather, health WARS etc...

there is one forecast KN RAO ji had quoted of a cattle disease out break inUP

yrs before and did happen the combinations r given for it in the book

similalry in Oct 87 raman ji had predicted in March 88 Bangladesh will have

floods, cyclones, floods, cyclones, floods did happen that too non monsoon time.

he had also said inthat time Yan saang suuchi will win th eelection and militry

rule will be there and she will be in jail

KN RAO ji i will leave it to Sri krishnaji to quote

Babaji had predicted the Tiamen squire uprising and the crushing it by force and

several other such incidents. gives successful forecasts in next month issue of

the events and the original forecast also along side

gayathri devi had precited rajivs's assination a surprise new PM YRS BEFORE AND

EVEN 2 MONTHS BEFORE in a public gather attended by cong leaders

SHE HAD PREDICTED VAJPAYES fall due to JJ and relected as PM later

JJ will win and be unseated and re-instated 6 months later she had predicted

both John kary and Bush Jr will win and Bush will be president how many can do

this-can there be 2 winners?

these r tested principles unless we find something as convincing and BETTER it

is not easy for anyone to try

remember ppl will try as they have tied KP, SYSTEMS APPROACH, SJC principles etc

so it is not new ppl will accept

change is always a tough call and time consuming ppl wanting change have to more

patient

remember v r giving u the time, space, opportunity and shorter the shelf life of

expectation the better for u, til then this can be a tricky issue that what we

accept, belive and what u accept and belive will be at odds but we r not

discarding or not open to see ur views must be clear by the time u have spent

here

so try this SW and NE monsoon forecasts for major cities

look at Bhopal and MP today

s news says people r willing to sell blood for water 3 ppl died due to clashes

or collecting leaking water so a forecast will help

dont doubt us we r as much eager to know

but till then we will use what we r used to use.

Best wishes

Prashant

____________ _________ _________ __

vinayjhaa16 <vinayjhaa16@ >