Guest guest Posted May 24, 2009 Report Share Posted May 24, 2009 Dear Vinay Jee, As to your statement, " RR Ji is also under an oath never to dicsuss real astrology with me. " I may have received the papers but I have not placed my signature on those ;-) I hope that does not disturb your slumber! Pray tell: What is this 'real astrology'? And why do you think the " other " one (there has got to be one in this realm of duality, I suppose?) is not! :-) <still smiling as you can see!> RR , Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16 wrote: > > Namastay Suresh ji, > > RR Ji has cited a passage about me from your beautiful posting, which may have finer nuances for him. RR Ji is master of language, making multilayered meanings in a single statements. Hence, I must clarify two points : > > <<<< " It would be better if Shri Vinay Ji ignore the musings between Sri > VR.Krishna & Shri Rohini Ranjan. They are old buddies. Truthfully, > some times I fail to understand them. But, Krishna Ji's predictions are > at times very accurate with the use " physical astronomy " >>>> > > As I gather from previous posts, VR Krishn Ji is nearly equal to me in age and Shri Rohini Ranjan Ji is senior by a few years, but it does not mean I belong to a younger generation having no right to discuss topics which are supposedly reserved for " old buddies " . I have no desire to join the league of " senior " members here because joining a forum lately is taken as a token of junior status. Let me remain a junior. Persons one generation junior to me have used foul language for me, and persons equal to me are old buddies in my comparison. > > GB Prashant Ji said that Raman Ji's and Gayatri ji's predictions were very good, hence the method used by them (physical astronomy) is a proven one. RR Ji is repeating the statement from you which carries same meaning : " Krishna Ji's predictions are > at times very accurate with the use physical astronomy " . > > Mr Arun Bansal of Leo Gold and Future Point carried out a statistical count of good and bad forecasts, and concluded in his editorial that 70% of predictions are good (all made along physical astronomy). I do not contend his figure. What I want to say is that a person with good Jyotishi-yogas in his/her own chart will be on the side of 70% and will almost always make good predictions, and another person using same software but having no good yogas in his/her own chart may fall on the side of remaining 30%. > > Hence, there must be some OBJECTIVE method of deciding the issue. It is wrong to say that so and so persons used physical astronomy and therefore it is the only correct method and other methods must be suppressed. This stans presupposes that all those astrologers of past and present who did not and do not use pgysical astronomy were making false predictions all the time, and everyone in India was a fool to believe in their unscientific method and wrong predictions for thousands of years ! > > Rhetoric will never solve this problem. There are only methods to solve this issue. One method is impartiam comparison of both methods. Another way is to abuse me away as a handful of youngstwers are doing, or to suppress my view without testing as the unreliable views of a newbie as one " old buddy " is trying to do. RR Ji is also under an oath never to dicsuss real astrology with me. > > I know the case studies I am preparing now will be ignored by those persons who have already made up their minds. But it will not stop my work. After posting my case studies, I will wait for some time, and will then leave all those forums where impartial comparison of both methods will be deleiberately neglected. At present, I have some hope that some persons may be interested in impartial reviews. > > -Vinay Jha > > ======================== == > > > ________________________________ > Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan > > Sunday, May 24, 2009 7:36:13 AM > Re: Ayanamsha , Vedic Astrology! 23/5 & Liars > > > > > > Namastay Suresh ji, > > What a beautiful sharing! Thank you very much for taking the time and donating your energy to this issue/matter that keeps coming back like a bumble bee hovering over someone who is trying to paint their side of fence so that it looks pretty {not pretti-er because I do not know how the fence of 'reality' looks from the other side!} :-) > > |||||||||||| ||||||||| ||||||||| || > It would be better if Shri Vinay Ji ignore the musings between Sri VR.Krishna & Shri Rohini Ranjan. They are old buddies. Truthfully, some times I fail to understand them. But, Krishna Ji's predictions are at times very accurate with the use " physical astronomy " " > |||||||||||| ||||||||| ||||||||| || > > Yes Krishnan ji and I go back a while! Although he is a few years younger I call him 'Dada' because of the scenario in which we met in silicon-reality! That aside, I may seem to be a bit callous in my post through not giving the entire nine yards of the 'background' and assuming that the readers already know or will figure out from earlier verbiage. Partly, this is to avoid further lengthening my already long-winded replies. The ability to type fast can sometimes be a burden! Particularly on the readers! Like jyotish, 'typing' came into my life almost serendipitously, as if by destiny and both became very crucial in life, mundane and otherwise. But there I go again ...:-) > > RR > > , " sureshbabuag " <sureshbabuag@ ...> wrote: > > > > Namasthe, > > > > I have been trying to distance myself from these fracases as much as possible. It is not uncommon that some heat is generated during a hot discussion. However, being well-educated persons and intelligent than most common people, we have a responsibility for being civil particularly in a public forum. Unfortunately, even private mails are even made a matter of discussion that every one shall agree, is not appropriate. Further, it is also not very good to jump into conclusions at what others have expressed and try to assert oneself. Some persons will be good at expressing themselves than others and yet some will be good at English than others. What is most important is the intention and essence of what is said. This forum is intended to help others in resolving their problems (that is what I think it is) and not to create a state of confusion and distraught. Any common persons who wants to seek help and guidance here, will be thinking " if these are > people are fighting with each other and are confused, how can they guide me?, is astrology so good to be depended upon? " . Is this the impression we want to project?. > > > > As far as choice of " Ayanamsa " and Suryasidhanta is concerned let me try to clarify certain points. From time of Vedas, Astrology has never been an independent branch of study. It was part and parcel of study of Vedas, Smrithis, Upanishads etc. This means the knowledge of planets / astrology was backed by the knowledge of Vedas. It was only a small part of the wholesome knowledge. But since the last 1000 years or so, Astrology was delineated as an independent branch and separated from the rest of the traditional knowledge. Though it gained much popularity, much of the true knowledge was lost or ignored in due course of time. In recent times due to economic upsurge, many books also began to appear on astrology, which any one can buy and learn. One can imagine the confusions it has created even by the posts on this very forum. > > > > Since Sri Vinay Jha has become the focal point in these discussions, I cannot but express his name though reluctantly. As far as I understand about his presentation of Suryasidhanta, there is nothing wrong in it and he is not entirely wrong in saying that physical astronomy is different from the planets as deities. Perhaps the problem is the way he express it and passionately too. Too passionate to the liking of others. We shall understand this better if we remember the controversy of actual moment of Sun rise. Some acharyas claim that Sun rise is when the " Bimba " is just above the horizon, some claim it when the half of soorya bimba is visible and some claim it is when the poorna bimba is seen above the horizon. Similar controversy exists about the lagna also. Some people say the time of birth is when the head is seen out side, yet some others say it is when the cries out and some others claim it is when the whole body comes out (prishtodaya? ). So > also the position of other planets will also have similar difference of opinion. > > > > Similarly, as Shri Rohini ji has pointed out every mass has a ring of energy around it, which we have learned in school doing experiment with magnets and iron powder. This can be called aura or chaya etc. this means the planets like any mass of body do have an aura of energy ring outside its physical form. This is not a new finding. Physical astronomy as Shri Vinay Ji calls it relies on the position of the physical mass of the body (planet), while considering the area of magnetic force of influence is also not wrong as we are try to equate the physical existence and its influence. The lagna chart or rasi chakra as we call it is sthira chakra, the orientation of planets as we see it from earth. In reality, the alignment of planets are a little different in outer space. All these various methods of computations and ayanamsa are an effort to synchronize the sthira chakra with the alignment of planets in the outer space. Within a small percentage of > difference depending on the size of planets vs its distance from earth and sun, no one can claim absolute accuracy over the other. Since we are talking about the orbit of magnetic spectrum which by itself is very difficult to compute, their influence over effects is also equally difficult to fathom. The technical term used by astronomers whether modern or traditional such as geocentric, heliocentric or merucentric all refer to the alignment of the sthira with the real positions of planets in the outer space which is also termed chara chakra. As the centers shift from one school of thought to another, the interpretations may also need to be changed. This can be seen the difference in various systems like the common (varaha/parasara/ jaimini) Vs kp system Vs Tajik system. The surya chara that defines the day/month.year is also a matter of controversy due to the actual date In the preset calendar terms of 365.25…. days and 360days (360 spokes of chakra). > > > > Pure astronomers may explain the above in a different and more complex language. > > > > Our ancient sages have held that we, our surrounding etc are only a smaller replica of the whole universe or what we call as milky way. This complicates the matter further. Darshanopanishad provides us an insight on this view. > > > > " pi~Ngalaayaa iDaayaaM tu vaayoH saMkramaNaM tu yat > > taduttaraayaNaM proktaM mune vedaantavedibhiH " > > > > Uttarayana Sankramana occures due to the prana sanchara from Pingala nadi to Eda Nadi. > > > > iDayaaH pi~NgalaayaaM tu praaNasaMkramaNaM mune > > dakshiNaayanamityuk taM pi~NgaLaayaamiti shruti > > > > Dakshinayana Sankramana occures due the prana sancharana from Eda Nadi to the Pingala Nadi. > > > > iDaapi~NgaLayoH saMdhiM yadaa praaNaH samaagataH > > amaavaasyaa tadaa proktaa dehe dehabhritaaM vara > > > > Amavaya occures during the union of prana sanchara in Eda Nadi and the Pingala Nadi > > > > muulaadhaaraM yadaa praaNaH praviShTaH paNDitottama > > tadaadyaM viShuvaM proktaM taapasaistaapasotta ma > > praaNasaMGYo munishreShTa muurdhaanaM praavishadyadaa > > tadantyaM viShuvaM proktaM taapasaistattvachin takaiH > > > > Vishu is the point when the prana situates in the Mooladhara and Moordhani > > > > niH shvaasocChvaasanaM sarva maasaanaaM saMkramo bhavet > > Months occures due to the breathing- inhaling & exhaling process. > > > > iDayaa kUNDaliisthaanaM yadaa praaNaH samagataH > > somagrahaNamityukta M tada tatvavidaaM vara > > > > Chandra grihana occures when prana in the Eda Nadi reaches the Kundali Sthana. > > > > yadaa pi~NgaLayaa praaNaH kuNdaLiisthaanamaag ataH > > tad tad bhavet suuryagrahaNaM munipu~Ngava. . > > > > Surya Grihana occcures when the Prana in the pingala nadi reaches the kundali sthana. > > > > From the above one can imagine the depth of this science. What all has to remember is as soon as we assign a number to a planet like longitudes, it ceases to be mystic in nature. Hence, there is absolutely no point is saying that one method is human and the other is divine. It just becomes a way of expression and the learned members need not be agitated over the use of such expressions. > > > > Till a few years back traditional astrologers were dead against computer generated horoscopes, but has started to accept them. I was playing with computers when most of the members probably barely knew about its existence during the early dos3.1 era I created an astrology software with almost 2.5 lack line of code in c language in early 90's. I have now created much advanced software with many features suitable for researching and still adding them. While I am thankful to Shri Vinay ji for providing a software on suryasidhanta, I sincerely hope that he abstain from jumping into arguments for every posts even if it doesn't relate to him or for that matter any one. It would be better if Shri Vinay Ji ignore the musings between Sri VR.Krishna & Shri Rohini Ranjan. They are old buddies. Truthfully, some times I fail to understand them. But, Krishna Ji's predictions are at times very accurate with the use " physical astronomy " like every one else and that is > what counts as far as a common person is concerned. Rohini Ji has a more practical approach to life with his radical thinking. And Shri Prashant Kumar also is well experienced in astrology. > > > > I have been doing research on these subjects now for around 30 years and have never ceased to be surprised at the amount of information that is still lying buried in our scriptures. Today I was casually reading Maha Narayanopashid and came across a verse used in " Mrithika Pooja " , though as a Brahmin, we have used it several times, I was amused when its real meaning dawned on me. > > > > " ashvakraante rathakraante viShNukraante vasundharaa > > shirasaa dhaarayiShyaami rakshasva maaM pade pade.. " > > > > The learned members can possibly understand its significance and I leave it to the others to put up some effort. > > > > This science is not going to end up with Surya Sindhanta or its efficacy nor with Shri Vinay Ji or Hari or Sunil or whatever name. Most of the seniors on this forum are around 50 (I am actually slightly elder than Shri Prashant Kumar) and with whatever life is left let us try to gain more knowledge and share it to help others. frankly speaking I dont care as to when this world is going to end or whether it crosses the 6777whatever population. what I care is about this life, how we live it and help others to find a little relief in their suffering. If we consider the word " akalpayath " , all this is going to be repeated in the next kalpa or yuga, but can't we make this space a more peaceful and useful one?, rest assured we may meet again. > > > > I must thank all the elders including Shri Prasant Kumar as moderator for trying their best to maintain a level of diplomacy. I beg your pardon if I have sounded a little harsh or out of context. I was pained by post of Shri Prashant Kumar about liars (I can imagine the pain he is going through) and to see again a burst of posts that are just repeats of earlier one which doesn't enhance the image of this esteemed forum. > > > > " satyam bhruuyat priyam bhruuyat " > > " na bhruuyat satyaapriyam " > > > > One should tell the truth and one should tell what others like, but never tell the truth in a way that others will dislike. In short, use diplomacy. > > > > A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 24, 2009 Report Share Posted May 24, 2009 RR Ji, <<<< " What is this 'real astrology'? And why do you think the " other " one (there has got to be one in this realm of duality, I suppose?) is not! " >>>> Real astrology is chart analysis and related issues.. The " other " one is every bit of non-astrological musings in astrological forums. I hope I am not offending. -VJ ===================== ===== ________________________________ Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan Sunday, May 24, 2009 1:37:37 PM Let us turn a fresh page Dear Vinay Jee, As to your statement, " RR Ji is also under an oath never to dicsuss real astrology with me. " I may have received the papers but I have not placed my signature on those ;-) I hope that does not disturb your slumber! Pray tell: What is this 'real astrology'? And why do you think the " other " one (there has got to be one in this realm of duality, I suppose?) is not! :-) <still smiling as you can see!> RR , Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ ...> wrote: > > Namastay Suresh ji, > > RR Ji has cited a passage about me from your beautiful posting, which may have finer nuances for him. RR Ji is master of language, making multilayered meanings in a single statements. Hence, I must clarify two points : > > <<<< " It would be better if Shri Vinay Ji ignore the musings between Sri > VR.Krishna & Shri Rohini Ranjan. They are old buddies. Truthfully, > some times I fail to understand them. But, Krishna Ji's predictions are > at times very accurate with the use " physical astronomy " >>>> > > As I gather from previous posts, VR Krishn Ji is nearly equal to me in age and Shri Rohini Ranjan Ji is senior by a few years, but it does not mean I belong to a younger generation having no right to discuss topics which are supposedly reserved for " old buddies " . I have no desire to join the league of " senior " members here because joining a forum lately is taken as a token of junior status. Let me remain a junior. Persons one generation junior to me have used foul language for me, and persons equal to me are old buddies in my comparison. > > GB Prashant Ji said that Raman Ji's and Gayatri ji's predictions were very good, hence the method used by them (physical astronomy) is a proven one. RR Ji is repeating the statement from you which carries same meaning : " Krishna Ji's predictions are > at times very accurate with the use physical astronomy " . > > Mr Arun Bansal of Leo Gold and Future Point carried out a statistical count of good and bad forecasts, and concluded in his editorial that 70% of predictions are good (all made along physical astronomy). I do not contend his figure. What I want to say is that a person with good Jyotishi-yogas in his/her own chart will be on the side of 70% and will almost always make good predictions, and another person using same software but having no good yogas in his/her own chart may fall on the side of remaining 30%. > > Hence, there must be some OBJECTIVE method of deciding the issue. It is wrong to say that so and so persons used physical astronomy and therefore it is the only correct method and other methods must be suppressed. This stans presupposes that all those astrologers of past and present who did not and do not use pgysical astronomy were making false predictions all the time, and everyone in India was a fool to believe in their unscientific method and wrong predictions for thousands of years ! > > Rhetoric will never solve this problem. There are only methods to solve this issue. One method is impartiam comparison of both methods. Another way is to abuse me away as a handful of youngstwers are doing, or to suppress my view without testing as the unreliable views of a newbie as one " old buddy " is trying to do. RR Ji is also under an oath never to dicsuss real astrology with me. > > I know the case studies I am preparing now will be ignored by those persons who have already made up their minds. But it will not stop my work. After posting my case studies, I will wait for some time, and will then leave all those forums where impartial comparison of both methods will be deleiberately neglected. At present, I have some hope that some persons may be interested in impartial reviews. > > -Vinay Jha > > ============ ========= === == > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan@ ...> > > Sunday, May 24, 2009 7:36:13 AM > Re: Ayanamsha , Vedic Astrology! 23/5 & Liars > > > > > > Namastay Suresh ji, > > What a beautiful sharing! Thank you very much for taking the time and donating your energy to this issue/matter that keeps coming back like a bumble bee hovering over someone who is trying to paint their side of fence so that it looks pretty {not pretti-er because I do not know how the fence of 'reality' looks from the other side!} :-) > > |||||||||||| ||||||||| ||||||||| || > It would be better if Shri Vinay Ji ignore the musings between Sri VR.Krishna & Shri Rohini Ranjan. They are old buddies. Truthfully, some times I fail to understand them. But, Krishna Ji's predictions are at times very accurate with the use " physical astronomy " " > |||||||||||| ||||||||| ||||||||| || > > Yes Krishnan ji and I go back a while! Although he is a few years younger I call him 'Dada' because of the scenario in which we met in silicon-reality! That aside, I may seem to be a bit callous in my post through not giving the entire nine yards of the 'background' and assuming that the readers already know or will figure out from earlier verbiage.. Partly, this is to avoid further lengthening my already long-winded replies. The ability to type fast can sometimes be a burden! Particularly on the readers! Like jyotish, 'typing' came into my life almost serendipitously, as if by destiny and both became very crucial in life, mundane and otherwise. But there I go again ...:-) > > RR > > , " sureshbabuag " <sureshbabuag@ ...> wrote: > > > > Namasthe, > > > > I have been trying to distance myself from these fracases as much as possible. It is not uncommon that some heat is generated during a hot discussion. However, being well-educated persons and intelligent than most common people, we have a responsibility for being civil particularly in a public forum. Unfortunately, even private mails are even made a matter of discussion that every one shall agree, is not appropriate. Further, it is also not very good to jump into conclusions at what others have expressed and try to assert oneself. Some persons will be good at expressing themselves than others and yet some will be good at English than others. What is most important is the intention and essence of what is said. This forum is intended to help others in resolving their problems (that is what I think it is) and not to create a state of confusion and distraught. Any common persons who wants to seek help and guidance here, will be thinking " if these are > people are fighting with each other and are confused, how can they guide me?, is astrology so good to be depended upon? " . Is this the impression we want to project?. > > > > As far as choice of " Ayanamsa " and Suryasidhanta is concerned let me try to clarify certain points. From time of Vedas, Astrology has never been an independent branch of study. It was part and parcel of study of Vedas, Smrithis, Upanishads etc. This means the knowledge of planets / astrology was backed by the knowledge of Vedas.. It was only a small part of the wholesome knowledge. But since the last 1000 years or so, Astrology was delineated as an independent branch and separated from the rest of the traditional knowledge. Though it gained much popularity, much of the true knowledge was lost or ignored in due course of time. In recent times due to economic upsurge, many books also began to appear on astrology, which any one can buy and learn. One can imagine the confusions it has created even by the posts on this very forum. > > > > Since Sri Vinay Jha has become the focal point in these discussions, I cannot but express his name though reluctantly. As far as I understand about his presentation of Suryasidhanta, there is nothing wrong in it and he is not entirely wrong in saying that physical astronomy is different from the planets as deities. Perhaps the problem is the way he express it and passionately too. Too passionate to the liking of others. We shall understand this better if we remember the controversy of actual moment of Sun rise. Some acharyas claim that Sun rise is when the " Bimba " is just above the horizon, some claim it when the half of soorya bimba is visible and some claim it is when the poorna bimba is seen above the horizon. Similar controversy exists about the lagna also. Some people say the time of birth is when the head is seen out side, yet some others say it is when the cries out and some others claim it is when the whole body comes out (prishtodaya? ). So > also the position of other planets will also have similar difference of opinion. > > > > Similarly, as Shri Rohini ji has pointed out every mass has a ring of energy around it, which we have learned in school doing experiment with magnets and iron powder. This can be called aura or chaya etc. this means the planets like any mass of body do have an aura of energy ring outside its physical form. This is not a new finding. Physical astronomy as Shri Vinay Ji calls it relies on the position of the physical mass of the body (planet), while considering the area of magnetic force of influence is also not wrong as we are try to equate the physical existence and its influence. The lagna chart or rasi chakra as we call it is sthira chakra, the orientation of planets as we see it from earth. In reality, the alignment of planets are a little different in outer space. All these various methods of computations and ayanamsa are an effort to synchronize the sthira chakra with the alignment of planets in the outer space. Within a small percentage of > difference depending on the size of planets vs its distance from earth and sun, no one can claim absolute accuracy over the other. Since we are talking about the orbit of magnetic spectrum which by itself is very difficult to compute, their influence over effects is also equally difficult to fathom. The technical term used by astronomers whether modern or traditional such as geocentric, heliocentric or merucentric all refer to the alignment of the sthira with the real positions of planets in the outer space which is also termed chara chakra. As the centers shift from one school of thought to another, the interpretations may also need to be changed. This can be seen the difference in various systems like the common (varaha/parasara/ jaimini) Vs kp system Vs Tajik system. The surya chara that defines the day/month.year is also a matter of controversy due to the actual date In the preset calendar terms of 365.25…. days and 360days (360 spokes of chakra). > > > > Pure astronomers may explain the above in a different and more complex language. > > > > Our ancient sages have held that we, our surrounding etc are only a smaller replica of the whole universe or what we call as milky way. This complicates the matter further. Darshanopanishad provides us an insight on this view. > > > > " pi~Ngalaayaa iDaayaaM tu vaayoH saMkramaNaM tu yat > > taduttaraayaNaM proktaM mune vedaantavedibhiH " > > > > Uttarayana Sankramana occures due to the prana sanchara from Pingala nadi to Eda Nadi. > > > > iDayaaH pi~NgalaayaaM tu praaNasaMkramaNaM mune > > dakshiNaayanamityuk taM pi~NgaLaayaamiti shruti > > > > Dakshinayana Sankramana occures due the prana sancharana from Eda Nadi to the Pingala Nadi. > > > > iDaapi~NgaLayoH saMdhiM yadaa praaNaH samaagataH > > amaavaasyaa tadaa proktaa dehe dehabhritaaM vara > > > > Amavaya occures during the union of prana sanchara in Eda Nadi and the Pingala Nadi > > > > muulaadhaaraM yadaa praaNaH praviShTaH paNDitottama > > tadaadyaM viShuvaM proktaM taapasaistaapasotta ma > > praaNasaMGYo munishreShTa muurdhaanaM praavishadyadaa > > tadantyaM viShuvaM proktaM taapasaistattvachin takaiH > > > > Vishu is the point when the prana situates in the Mooladhara and Moordhani > > > > niH shvaasocChvaasanaM sarva maasaanaaM saMkramo bhavet > > Months occures due to the breathing- inhaling & exhaling process. > > > > iDayaa kUNDaliisthaanaM yadaa praaNaH samagataH > > somagrahaNamityukta M tada tatvavidaaM vara > > > > Chandra grihana occures when prana in the Eda Nadi reaches the Kundali Sthana. > > > > yadaa pi~NgaLayaa praaNaH kuNdaLiisthaanamaag ataH > > tad tad bhavet suuryagrahaNaM munipu~Ngava. . > > > > Surya Grihana occcures when the Prana in the pingala nadi reaches the kundali sthana. > > > > From the above one can imagine the depth of this science. What all has to remember is as soon as we assign a number to a planet like longitudes, it ceases to be mystic in nature. Hence, there is absolutely no point is saying that one method is human and the other is divine. It just becomes a way of expression and the learned members need not be agitated over the use of such expressions. > > > > Till a few years back traditional astrologers were dead against computer generated horoscopes, but has started to accept them. I was playing with computers when most of the members probably barely knew about its existence during the early dos3.1 era I created an astrology software with almost 2.5 lack line of code in c language in early 90's. I have now created much advanced software with many features suitable for researching and still adding them. While I am thankful to Shri Vinay ji for providing a software on suryasidhanta, I sincerely hope that he abstain from jumping into arguments for every posts even if it doesn't relate to him or for that matter any one. It would be better if Shri Vinay Ji ignore the musings between Sri VR.Krishna & Shri Rohini Ranjan. They are old buddies. Truthfully, some times I fail to understand them. But, Krishna Ji's predictions are at times very accurate with the use " physical astronomy " like every one else and that is > what counts as far as a common person is concerned. Rohini Ji has a more practical approach to life with his radical thinking. And Shri Prashant Kumar also is well experienced in astrology. > > > > I have been doing research on these subjects now for around 30 years and have never ceased to be surprised at the amount of information that is still lying buried in our scriptures. Today I was casually reading Maha Narayanopashid and came across a verse used in " Mrithika Pooja " , though as a Brahmin, we have used it several times, I was amused when its real meaning dawned on me. > > > > " ashvakraante rathakraante viShNukraante vasundharaa > > shirasaa dhaarayiShyaami rakshasva maaM pade pade.. " > > > > The learned members can possibly understand its significance and I leave it to the others to put up some effort. > > > > This science is not going to end up with Surya Sindhanta or its efficacy nor with Shri Vinay Ji or Hari or Sunil or whatever name. Most of the seniors on this forum are around 50 (I am actually slightly elder than Shri Prashant Kumar) and with whatever life is left let us try to gain more knowledge and share it to help others. frankly speaking I dont care as to when this world is going to end or whether it crosses the 6777whatever population. what I care is about this life, how we live it and help others to find a little relief in their suffering. If we consider the word " akalpayath " , all this is going to be repeated in the next kalpa or yuga, but can't we make this space a more peaceful and useful one?, rest assured we may meet again. > > > > I must thank all the elders including Shri Prasant Kumar as moderator for trying their best to maintain a level of diplomacy. I beg your pardon if I have sounded a little harsh or out of context. I was pained by post of Shri Prashant Kumar about liars (I can imagine the pain he is going through) and to see again a burst of posts that are just repeats of earlier one which doesn't enhance the image of this esteemed forum. > > > > " satyam bhruuyat priyam bhruuyat " > > " na bhruuyat satyaapriyam " > > > > One should tell the truth and one should tell what others like, but never tell the truth in a way that others will dislike. In short, use diplomacy. > > > > A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 24, 2009 Report Share Posted May 24, 2009 Dear Vinay Jee, NO! Quite the contrary, actually!! Please initiate the discussion...! :-) RR , Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16 wrote: > > RR Ji, > > <<<< " What is this 'real astrology'? And why do you think the > " other " one (there has got to be one in this realm of duality, I > suppose?) is not! " >>>> > > Real astrology is chart analysis and related issues.. The " other " one is every bit of non-astrological musings in astrological forums. > > I hope I am not offending. > > -VJ > > ===================== ===== > > > ________________________________ > Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan > > Sunday, May 24, 2009 1:37:37 PM > Let us turn a fresh page > > > > > > Dear Vinay Jee, > > As to your statement, " RR Ji is also under an oath never to dicsuss real astrology with me. " > > I may have received the papers but I have not placed my signature on those ;-) > > I hope that does not disturb your slumber! > > Pray tell: What is this 'real astrology'? And why do you think the " other " one (there has got to be one in this realm of duality, I suppose?) is not! > > :-) <still smiling as you can see!> > > RR > > , Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ ...> wrote: > > > > Namastay Suresh ji, > > > > RR Ji has cited a passage about me from your beautiful posting, which may have finer nuances for him. RR Ji is master of language, making multilayered meanings in a single statements. Hence, I must clarify two points : > > > > <<<< " It would be better if Shri Vinay Ji ignore the musings between Sri > > VR.Krishna & Shri Rohini Ranjan. They are old buddies. Truthfully, > > some times I fail to understand them. But, Krishna Ji's predictions are > > at times very accurate with the use " physical astronomy " >>>> > > > > As I gather from previous posts, VR Krishn Ji is nearly equal to me in age and Shri Rohini Ranjan Ji is senior by a few years, but it does not mean I belong to a younger generation having no right to discuss topics which are supposedly reserved for " old buddies " . I have no desire to join the league of " senior " members here because joining a forum lately is taken as a token of junior status. Let me remain a junior. Persons one generation junior to me have used foul language for me, and persons equal to me are old buddies in my comparison. > > > > GB Prashant Ji said that Raman Ji's and Gayatri ji's predictions were very good, hence the method used by them (physical astronomy) is a proven one. RR Ji is repeating the statement from you which carries same meaning : " Krishna Ji's predictions are > > at times very accurate with the use physical astronomy " . > > > > Mr Arun Bansal of Leo Gold and Future Point carried out a statistical count of good and bad forecasts, and concluded in his editorial that 70% of predictions are good (all made along physical astronomy). I do not contend his figure. What I want to say is that a person with good Jyotishi-yogas in his/her own chart will be on the side of 70% and will almost always make good predictions, and another person using same software but having no good yogas in his/her own chart may fall on the side of remaining 30%. > > > > Hence, there must be some OBJECTIVE method of deciding the issue. It is wrong to say that so and so persons used physical astronomy and therefore it is the only correct method and other methods must be suppressed. This stans presupposes that all those astrologers of past and present who did not and do not use pgysical astronomy were making false predictions all the time, and everyone in India was a fool to believe in their unscientific method and wrong predictions for thousands of years ! > > > > Rhetoric will never solve this problem. There are only methods to solve this issue. One method is impartiam comparison of both methods. Another way is to abuse me away as a handful of youngstwers are doing, or to suppress my view without testing as the unreliable views of a newbie as one " old buddy " is trying to do. RR Ji is also under an oath never to dicsuss real astrology with me. > > > > I know the case studies I am preparing now will be ignored by those persons who have already made up their minds. But it will not stop my work. After posting my case studies, I will wait for some time, and will then leave all those forums where impartial comparison of both methods will be deleiberately neglected. At present, I have some hope that some persons may be interested in impartial reviews. > > > > -Vinay Jha > > > > ============ ========= === == > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan@ ...> > > > > Sunday, May 24, 2009 7:36:13 AM > > Re: Ayanamsha , Vedic Astrology! 23/5 & Liars > > > > > > > > > > > > Namastay Suresh ji, > > > > What a beautiful sharing! Thank you very much for taking the time and donating your energy to this issue/matter that keeps coming back like a bumble bee hovering over someone who is trying to paint their side of fence so that it looks pretty {not pretti-er because I do not know how the fence of 'reality' looks from the other side!} :-) > > > > |||||||||||| ||||||||| ||||||||| || > > It would be better if Shri Vinay Ji ignore the musings between Sri VR.Krishna & Shri Rohini Ranjan. They are old buddies. Truthfully, some times I fail to understand them. But, Krishna Ji's predictions are at times very accurate with the use " physical astronomy " " > > |||||||||||| ||||||||| ||||||||| || > > > > Yes Krishnan ji and I go back a while! Although he is a few years younger I call him 'Dada' because of the scenario in which we met in silicon-reality! That aside, I may seem to be a bit callous in my post through not giving the entire nine yards of the 'background' and assuming that the readers already know or will figure out from earlier verbiage.. Partly, this is to avoid further lengthening my already long-winded replies. The ability to type fast can sometimes be a burden! Particularly on the readers! Like jyotish, 'typing' came into my life almost serendipitously, as if by destiny and both became very crucial in life, mundane and otherwise. But there I go again ...:-) > > > > RR > > > > , " sureshbabuag " <sureshbabuag@ ....> wrote: > > > > > > Namasthe, > > > > > > I have been trying to distance myself from these fracases as much as possible. It is not uncommon that some heat is generated during a hot discussion. However, being well-educated persons and intelligent than most common people, we have a responsibility for being civil particularly in a public forum. Unfortunately, even private mails are even made a matter of discussion that every one shall agree, is not appropriate. Further, it is also not very good to jump into conclusions at what others have expressed and try to assert oneself. Some persons will be good at expressing themselves than others and yet some will be good at English than others. What is most important is the intention and essence of what is said. This forum is intended to help others in resolving their problems (that is what I think it is) and not to create a state of confusion and distraught. Any common persons who wants to seek help and guidance here, will be thinking " if these are > > people are fighting with each other and are confused, how can they guide me?, is astrology so good to be depended upon? " . Is this the impression we want to project?. > > > > > > As far as choice of " Ayanamsa " and Suryasidhanta is concerned let me try to clarify certain points. From time of Vedas, Astrology has never been an independent branch of study. It was part and parcel of study of Vedas, Smrithis, Upanishads etc. This means the knowledge of planets / astrology was backed by the knowledge of Vedas.. It was only a small part of the wholesome knowledge. But since the last 1000 years or so, Astrology was delineated as an independent branch and separated from the rest of the traditional knowledge. Though it gained much popularity, much of the true knowledge was lost or ignored in due course of time. In recent times due to economic upsurge, many books also began to appear on astrology, which any one can buy and learn. One can imagine the confusions it has created even by the posts on this very forum. > > > > > > Since Sri Vinay Jha has become the focal point in these discussions, I cannot but express his name though reluctantly. As far as I understand about his presentation of Suryasidhanta, there is nothing wrong in it and he is not entirely wrong in saying that physical astronomy is different from the planets as deities. Perhaps the problem is the way he express it and passionately too. Too passionate to the liking of others. We shall understand this better if we remember the controversy of actual moment of Sun rise. Some acharyas claim that Sun rise is when the " Bimba " is just above the horizon, some claim it when the half of soorya bimba is visible and some claim it is when the poorna bimba is seen above the horizon. Similar controversy exists about the lagna also. Some people say the time of birth is when the head is seen out side, yet some others say it is when the cries out and some others claim it is when the whole body comes out (prishtodaya? ). So > > also the position of other planets will also have similar difference of opinion. > > > > > > Similarly, as Shri Rohini ji has pointed out every mass has a ring of energy around it, which we have learned in school doing experiment with magnets and iron powder. This can be called aura or chaya etc. this means the planets like any mass of body do have an aura of energy ring outside its physical form. This is not a new finding. Physical astronomy as Shri Vinay Ji calls it relies on the position of the physical mass of the body (planet), while considering the area of magnetic force of influence is also not wrong as we are try to equate the physical existence and its influence. The lagna chart or rasi chakra as we call it is sthira chakra, the orientation of planets as we see it from earth. In reality, the alignment of planets are a little different in outer space. All these various methods of computations and ayanamsa are an effort to synchronize the sthira chakra with the alignment of planets in the outer space. Within a small percentage of > > difference depending on the size of planets vs its distance from earth and sun, no one can claim absolute accuracy over the other. Since we are talking about the orbit of magnetic spectrum which by itself is very difficult to compute, their influence over effects is also equally difficult to fathom. The technical term used by astronomers whether modern or traditional such as geocentric, heliocentric or merucentric all refer to the alignment of the sthira with the real positions of planets in the outer space which is also termed chara chakra. As the centers shift from one school of thought to another, the interpretations may also need to be changed. This can be seen the difference in various systems like the common (varaha/parasara/ jaimini) Vs kp system Vs Tajik system. The surya chara that defines the day/month.year is also a matter of controversy due to the actual date In the preset calendar terms of 365.25…. days and 360days (360 spokes of > chakra). > > > > > > Pure astronomers may explain the above in a different and more complex language. > > > > > > Our ancient sages have held that we, our surrounding etc are only a smaller replica of the whole universe or what we call as milky way. This complicates the matter further. Darshanopanishad provides us an insight on this view. > > > > > > " pi~Ngalaayaa iDaayaaM tu vaayoH saMkramaNaM tu yat > > > taduttaraayaNaM proktaM mune vedaantavedibhiH " > > > > > > Uttarayana Sankramana occures due to the prana sanchara from Pingala nadi to Eda Nadi. > > > > > > iDayaaH pi~NgalaayaaM tu praaNasaMkramaNaM mune > > > dakshiNaayanamityuk taM pi~NgaLaayaamiti shruti > > > > > > Dakshinayana Sankramana occures due the prana sancharana from Eda Nadi to the Pingala Nadi. > > > > > > iDaapi~NgaLayoH saMdhiM yadaa praaNaH samaagataH > > > amaavaasyaa tadaa proktaa dehe dehabhritaaM vara > > > > > > Amavaya occures during the union of prana sanchara in Eda Nadi and the Pingala Nadi > > > > > > muulaadhaaraM yadaa praaNaH praviShTaH paNDitottama > > > tadaadyaM viShuvaM proktaM taapasaistaapasotta ma > > > praaNasaMGYo munishreShTa muurdhaanaM praavishadyadaa > > > tadantyaM viShuvaM proktaM taapasaistattvachin takaiH > > > > > > Vishu is the point when the prana situates in the Mooladhara and Moordhani > > > > > > niH shvaasocChvaasanaM sarva maasaanaaM saMkramo bhavet > > > Months occures due to the breathing- inhaling & exhaling process. > > > > > > iDayaa kUNDaliisthaanaM yadaa praaNaH samagataH > > > somagrahaNamityukta M tada tatvavidaaM vara > > > > > > Chandra grihana occures when prana in the Eda Nadi reaches the Kundali Sthana. > > > > > > yadaa pi~NgaLayaa praaNaH kuNdaLiisthaanamaag ataH > > > tad tad bhavet suuryagrahaNaM munipu~Ngava. . > > > > > > Surya Grihana occcures when the Prana in the pingala nadi reaches the kundali sthana. > > > > > > From the above one can imagine the depth of this science. What all has to remember is as soon as we assign a number to a planet like longitudes, it ceases to be mystic in nature. Hence, there is absolutely no point is saying that one method is human and the other is divine. It just becomes a way of expression and the learned members need not be agitated over the use of such expressions. > > > > > > Till a few years back traditional astrologers were dead against computer generated horoscopes, but has started to accept them. I was playing with computers when most of the members probably barely knew about its existence during the early dos3.1 era I created an astrology software with almost 2.5 lack line of code in c language in early 90's. I have now created much advanced software with many features suitable for researching and still adding them. While I am thankful to Shri Vinay ji for providing a software on suryasidhanta, I sincerely hope that he abstain from jumping into arguments for every posts even if it doesn't relate to him or for that matter any one. It would be better if Shri Vinay Ji ignore the musings between Sri VR.Krishna & Shri Rohini Ranjan. They are old buddies. Truthfully, some times I fail to understand them. But, Krishna Ji's predictions are at times very accurate with the use " physical astronomy " like every one else and that > is > > what counts as far as a common person is concerned. Rohini Ji has a more practical approach to life with his radical thinking. And Shri Prashant Kumar also is well experienced in astrology. > > > > > > I have been doing research on these subjects now for around 30 years and have never ceased to be surprised at the amount of information that is still lying buried in our scriptures. Today I was casually reading Maha Narayanopashid and came across a verse used in " Mrithika Pooja " , though as a Brahmin, we have used it several times, I was amused when its real meaning dawned on me. > > > > > > " ashvakraante rathakraante viShNukraante vasundharaa > > > shirasaa dhaarayiShyaami rakshasva maaM pade pade.. " > > > > > > The learned members can possibly understand its significance and I leave it to the others to put up some effort. > > > > > > This science is not going to end up with Surya Sindhanta or its efficacy nor with Shri Vinay Ji or Hari or Sunil or whatever name. Most of the seniors on this forum are around 50 (I am actually slightly elder than Shri Prashant Kumar) and with whatever life is left let us try to gain more knowledge and share it to help others. frankly speaking I dont care as to when this world is going to end or whether it crosses the 6777whatever population. what I care is about this life, how we live it and help others to find a little relief in their suffering. If we consider the word " akalpayath " , all this is going to be repeated in the next kalpa or yuga, but can't we make this space a more peaceful and useful one?, rest assured we may meet again. > > > > > > I must thank all the elders including Shri Prasant Kumar as moderator for trying their best to maintain a level of diplomacy. I beg your pardon if I have sounded a little harsh or out of context. I was pained by post of Shri Prashant Kumar about liars (I can imagine the pain he is going through) and to see again a burst of posts that are just repeats of earlier one which doesn't enhance the image of this esteemed forum. > > > > > > " satyam bhruuyat priyam bhruuyat " > > > " na bhruuyat satyaapriyam " > > > > > > One should tell the truth and one should tell what others like, but never tell the truth in a way that others will dislike. In short, use diplomacy. > > > > > > A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 24, 2009 Report Share Posted May 24, 2009 In fact Vinay jee, please allow me to open up and reiterate again -- an opportunity for you to 'demonstrate' if that is where you are going: http://members.ozemail.com.au/~dymock/index.html Please <click> and the rest would follow RR , Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16 wrote: > > RR Ji, > > <<<< " What is this 'real astrology'? And why do you think the > " other " one (there has got to be one in this realm of duality, I > suppose?) is not! " >>>> > > Real astrology is chart analysis and related issues.. The " other " one is every bit of non-astrological musings in astrological forums. > > I hope I am not offending. > > -VJ > > ===================== ===== > > > ________________________________ > Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan > > Sunday, May 24, 2009 1:37:37 PM > Let us turn a fresh page > > > > > > Dear Vinay Jee, > > As to your statement, " RR Ji is also under an oath never to dicsuss real astrology with me. " > > I may have received the papers but I have not placed my signature on those ;-) > > I hope that does not disturb your slumber! > > Pray tell: What is this 'real astrology'? And why do you think the " other " one (there has got to be one in this realm of duality, I suppose?) is not! > > :-) <still smiling as you can see!> > > RR > > , Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ ...> wrote: > > > > Namastay Suresh ji, > > > > RR Ji has cited a passage about me from your beautiful posting, which may have finer nuances for him. RR Ji is master of language, making multilayered meanings in a single statements. Hence, I must clarify two points : > > > > <<<< " It would be better if Shri Vinay Ji ignore the musings between Sri > > VR.Krishna & Shri Rohini Ranjan. They are old buddies. Truthfully, > > some times I fail to understand them. But, Krishna Ji's predictions are > > at times very accurate with the use " physical astronomy " >>>> > > > > As I gather from previous posts, VR Krishn Ji is nearly equal to me in age and Shri Rohini Ranjan Ji is senior by a few years, but it does not mean I belong to a younger generation having no right to discuss topics which are supposedly reserved for " old buddies " . I have no desire to join the league of " senior " members here because joining a forum lately is taken as a token of junior status. Let me remain a junior. Persons one generation junior to me have used foul language for me, and persons equal to me are old buddies in my comparison. > > > > GB Prashant Ji said that Raman Ji's and Gayatri ji's predictions were very good, hence the method used by them (physical astronomy) is a proven one. RR Ji is repeating the statement from you which carries same meaning : " Krishna Ji's predictions are > > at times very accurate with the use physical astronomy " . > > > > Mr Arun Bansal of Leo Gold and Future Point carried out a statistical count of good and bad forecasts, and concluded in his editorial that 70% of predictions are good (all made along physical astronomy). I do not contend his figure. What I want to say is that a person with good Jyotishi-yogas in his/her own chart will be on the side of 70% and will almost always make good predictions, and another person using same software but having no good yogas in his/her own chart may fall on the side of remaining 30%. > > > > Hence, there must be some OBJECTIVE method of deciding the issue. It is wrong to say that so and so persons used physical astronomy and therefore it is the only correct method and other methods must be suppressed. This stans presupposes that all those astrologers of past and present who did not and do not use pgysical astronomy were making false predictions all the time, and everyone in India was a fool to believe in their unscientific method and wrong predictions for thousands of years ! > > > > Rhetoric will never solve this problem. There are only methods to solve this issue. One method is impartiam comparison of both methods. Another way is to abuse me away as a handful of youngstwers are doing, or to suppress my view without testing as the unreliable views of a newbie as one " old buddy " is trying to do. RR Ji is also under an oath never to dicsuss real astrology with me. > > > > I know the case studies I am preparing now will be ignored by those persons who have already made up their minds. But it will not stop my work. After posting my case studies, I will wait for some time, and will then leave all those forums where impartial comparison of both methods will be deleiberately neglected. At present, I have some hope that some persons may be interested in impartial reviews. > > > > -Vinay Jha > > > > ============ ========= === == > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan@ ...> > > > > Sunday, May 24, 2009 7:36:13 AM > > Re: Ayanamsha , Vedic Astrology! 23/5 & Liars > > > > > > > > > > > > Namastay Suresh ji, > > > > What a beautiful sharing! Thank you very much for taking the time and donating your energy to this issue/matter that keeps coming back like a bumble bee hovering over someone who is trying to paint their side of fence so that it looks pretty {not pretti-er because I do not know how the fence of 'reality' looks from the other side!} :-) > > > > |||||||||||| ||||||||| ||||||||| || > > It would be better if Shri Vinay Ji ignore the musings between Sri VR.Krishna & Shri Rohini Ranjan. They are old buddies. Truthfully, some times I fail to understand them. But, Krishna Ji's predictions are at times very accurate with the use " physical astronomy " " > > |||||||||||| ||||||||| ||||||||| || > > > > Yes Krishnan ji and I go back a while! Although he is a few years younger I call him 'Dada' because of the scenario in which we met in silicon-reality! That aside, I may seem to be a bit callous in my post through not giving the entire nine yards of the 'background' and assuming that the readers already know or will figure out from earlier verbiage.. Partly, this is to avoid further lengthening my already long-winded replies. The ability to type fast can sometimes be a burden! Particularly on the readers! Like jyotish, 'typing' came into my life almost serendipitously, as if by destiny and both became very crucial in life, mundane and otherwise. But there I go again ...:-) > > > > RR > > > > , " sureshbabuag " <sureshbabuag@ ....> wrote: > > > > > > Namasthe, > > > > > > I have been trying to distance myself from these fracases as much as possible. It is not uncommon that some heat is generated during a hot discussion. However, being well-educated persons and intelligent than most common people, we have a responsibility for being civil particularly in a public forum. Unfortunately, even private mails are even made a matter of discussion that every one shall agree, is not appropriate. Further, it is also not very good to jump into conclusions at what others have expressed and try to assert oneself. Some persons will be good at expressing themselves than others and yet some will be good at English than others. What is most important is the intention and essence of what is said. This forum is intended to help others in resolving their problems (that is what I think it is) and not to create a state of confusion and distraught. Any common persons who wants to seek help and guidance here, will be thinking " if these are > > people are fighting with each other and are confused, how can they guide me?, is astrology so good to be depended upon? " . Is this the impression we want to project?. > > > > > > As far as choice of " Ayanamsa " and Suryasidhanta is concerned let me try to clarify certain points. From time of Vedas, Astrology has never been an independent branch of study. It was part and parcel of study of Vedas, Smrithis, Upanishads etc. This means the knowledge of planets / astrology was backed by the knowledge of Vedas.. It was only a small part of the wholesome knowledge. But since the last 1000 years or so, Astrology was delineated as an independent branch and separated from the rest of the traditional knowledge. Though it gained much popularity, much of the true knowledge was lost or ignored in due course of time. In recent times due to economic upsurge, many books also began to appear on astrology, which any one can buy and learn. One can imagine the confusions it has created even by the posts on this very forum. > > > > > > Since Sri Vinay Jha has become the focal point in these discussions, I cannot but express his name though reluctantly. As far as I understand about his presentation of Suryasidhanta, there is nothing wrong in it and he is not entirely wrong in saying that physical astronomy is different from the planets as deities. Perhaps the problem is the way he express it and passionately too. Too passionate to the liking of others. We shall understand this better if we remember the controversy of actual moment of Sun rise. Some acharyas claim that Sun rise is when the " Bimba " is just above the horizon, some claim it when the half of soorya bimba is visible and some claim it is when the poorna bimba is seen above the horizon. Similar controversy exists about the lagna also. Some people say the time of birth is when the head is seen out side, yet some others say it is when the cries out and some others claim it is when the whole body comes out (prishtodaya? ). So > > also the position of other planets will also have similar difference of opinion. > > > > > > Similarly, as Shri Rohini ji has pointed out every mass has a ring of energy around it, which we have learned in school doing experiment with magnets and iron powder. This can be called aura or chaya etc. this means the planets like any mass of body do have an aura of energy ring outside its physical form. This is not a new finding. Physical astronomy as Shri Vinay Ji calls it relies on the position of the physical mass of the body (planet), while considering the area of magnetic force of influence is also not wrong as we are try to equate the physical existence and its influence. The lagna chart or rasi chakra as we call it is sthira chakra, the orientation of planets as we see it from earth. In reality, the alignment of planets are a little different in outer space. All these various methods of computations and ayanamsa are an effort to synchronize the sthira chakra with the alignment of planets in the outer space. Within a small percentage of > > difference depending on the size of planets vs its distance from earth and sun, no one can claim absolute accuracy over the other. Since we are talking about the orbit of magnetic spectrum which by itself is very difficult to compute, their influence over effects is also equally difficult to fathom. The technical term used by astronomers whether modern or traditional such as geocentric, heliocentric or merucentric all refer to the alignment of the sthira with the real positions of planets in the outer space which is also termed chara chakra. As the centers shift from one school of thought to another, the interpretations may also need to be changed. This can be seen the difference in various systems like the common (varaha/parasara/ jaimini) Vs kp system Vs Tajik system. The surya chara that defines the day/month.year is also a matter of controversy due to the actual date In the preset calendar terms of 365.25…. days and 360days (360 spokes of > chakra). > > > > > > Pure astronomers may explain the above in a different and more complex language. > > > > > > Our ancient sages have held that we, our surrounding etc are only a smaller replica of the whole universe or what we call as milky way. This complicates the matter further. Darshanopanishad provides us an insight on this view. > > > > > > " pi~Ngalaayaa iDaayaaM tu vaayoH saMkramaNaM tu yat > > > taduttaraayaNaM proktaM mune vedaantavedibhiH " > > > > > > Uttarayana Sankramana occures due to the prana sanchara from Pingala nadi to Eda Nadi. > > > > > > iDayaaH pi~NgalaayaaM tu praaNasaMkramaNaM mune > > > dakshiNaayanamityuk taM pi~NgaLaayaamiti shruti > > > > > > Dakshinayana Sankramana occures due the prana sancharana from Eda Nadi to the Pingala Nadi. > > > > > > iDaapi~NgaLayoH saMdhiM yadaa praaNaH samaagataH > > > amaavaasyaa tadaa proktaa dehe dehabhritaaM vara > > > > > > Amavaya occures during the union of prana sanchara in Eda Nadi and the Pingala Nadi > > > > > > muulaadhaaraM yadaa praaNaH praviShTaH paNDitottama > > > tadaadyaM viShuvaM proktaM taapasaistaapasotta ma > > > praaNasaMGYo munishreShTa muurdhaanaM praavishadyadaa > > > tadantyaM viShuvaM proktaM taapasaistattvachin takaiH > > > > > > Vishu is the point when the prana situates in the Mooladhara and Moordhani > > > > > > niH shvaasocChvaasanaM sarva maasaanaaM saMkramo bhavet > > > Months occures due to the breathing- inhaling & exhaling process. > > > > > > iDayaa kUNDaliisthaanaM yadaa praaNaH samagataH > > > somagrahaNamityukta M tada tatvavidaaM vara > > > > > > Chandra grihana occures when prana in the Eda Nadi reaches the Kundali Sthana. > > > > > > yadaa pi~NgaLayaa praaNaH kuNdaLiisthaanamaag ataH > > > tad tad bhavet suuryagrahaNaM munipu~Ngava. . > > > > > > Surya Grihana occcures when the Prana in the pingala nadi reaches the kundali sthana. > > > > > > From the above one can imagine the depth of this science. What all has to remember is as soon as we assign a number to a planet like longitudes, it ceases to be mystic in nature. Hence, there is absolutely no point is saying that one method is human and the other is divine. It just becomes a way of expression and the learned members need not be agitated over the use of such expressions. > > > > > > Till a few years back traditional astrologers were dead against computer generated horoscopes, but has started to accept them. I was playing with computers when most of the members probably barely knew about its existence during the early dos3.1 era I created an astrology software with almost 2.5 lack line of code in c language in early 90's. I have now created much advanced software with many features suitable for researching and still adding them. While I am thankful to Shri Vinay ji for providing a software on suryasidhanta, I sincerely hope that he abstain from jumping into arguments for every posts even if it doesn't relate to him or for that matter any one. It would be better if Shri Vinay Ji ignore the musings between Sri VR.Krishna & Shri Rohini Ranjan. They are old buddies. Truthfully, some times I fail to understand them. But, Krishna Ji's predictions are at times very accurate with the use " physical astronomy " like every one else and that > is > > what counts as far as a common person is concerned. Rohini Ji has a more practical approach to life with his radical thinking. And Shri Prashant Kumar also is well experienced in astrology. > > > > > > I have been doing research on these subjects now for around 30 years and have never ceased to be surprised at the amount of information that is still lying buried in our scriptures. Today I was casually reading Maha Narayanopashid and came across a verse used in " Mrithika Pooja " , though as a Brahmin, we have used it several times, I was amused when its real meaning dawned on me. > > > > > > " ashvakraante rathakraante viShNukraante vasundharaa > > > shirasaa dhaarayiShyaami rakshasva maaM pade pade.. " > > > > > > The learned members can possibly understand its significance and I leave it to the others to put up some effort. > > > > > > This science is not going to end up with Surya Sindhanta or its efficacy nor with Shri Vinay Ji or Hari or Sunil or whatever name. Most of the seniors on this forum are around 50 (I am actually slightly elder than Shri Prashant Kumar) and with whatever life is left let us try to gain more knowledge and share it to help others. frankly speaking I dont care as to when this world is going to end or whether it crosses the 6777whatever population. what I care is about this life, how we live it and help others to find a little relief in their suffering. If we consider the word " akalpayath " , all this is going to be repeated in the next kalpa or yuga, but can't we make this space a more peaceful and useful one?, rest assured we may meet again. > > > > > > I must thank all the elders including Shri Prasant Kumar as moderator for trying their best to maintain a level of diplomacy. I beg your pardon if I have sounded a little harsh or out of context. I was pained by post of Shri Prashant Kumar about liars (I can imagine the pain he is going through) and to see again a burst of posts that are just repeats of earlier one which doesn't enhance the image of this esteemed forum. > > > > > > " satyam bhruuyat priyam bhruuyat " > > > " na bhruuyat satyaapriyam " > > > > > > One should tell the truth and one should tell what others like, but never tell the truth in a way that others will dislike. In short, use diplomacy. > > > > > > A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 24, 2009 Report Share Posted May 24, 2009 RR Ji, It is second time you gave me this link. You do not know that Suryasiddhanta will receive 100 times more abuses on a foreign astrological site than on Indian one. Testing needs impartiality. If you have no time to discuss charts with me, why do you prompt me to go to others, who are not better than you ? The world is too big, and I am in no need to go at every door to convince everyone about Suryasiddhanta. It is just the opposite. Suryasiddhantais given to those who perform tapasyaa and reform themselves. I broke this rule just because I wanted to see how much abuses I get. But even after tolerating so much abuses, I am unable to convince persons like you that I am fully convinced of my righteousness and that is why I am tolerating so much humiliation. 13 case studies are lying at my site, and 200 case studies are published in my Hindi book (being enlarged for second edition). Has anyone in these forums ever tried to prove me wrong astrologically ? I receive private messages that software works wonders, but they fear sending such messages in public forums, because they do not want to be abused. -VJ ==================== ==== ________________________________ Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan Sunday, May 24, 2009 3:36:52 PM Re: Let us turn a fresh page In fact Vinay jee, please allow me to open up and reiterate again -- an opportunity for you to 'demonstrate' if that is where you are going: http://members. ozemail.com. au/~dymock/ index.html Please <click> and the rest would follow RR , Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ ...> wrote: > > RR Ji, > > <<<< " What is this 'real astrology'? And why do you think the > " other " one (there has got to be one in this realm of duality, I > suppose?) is not! " >>>> > > Real astrology is chart analysis and related issues.. The " other " one is every bit of non-astrological musings in astrological forums. > > I hope I am not offending. > > -VJ > > ============ ========= ===== > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan@ ...> > > Sunday, May 24, 2009 1:37:37 PM > Let us turn a fresh page > > > > > > Dear Vinay Jee, > > As to your statement, " RR Ji is also under an oath never to dicsuss real astrology with me. " > > I may have received the papers but I have not placed my signature on those ;-) > > I hope that does not disturb your slumber! > > Pray tell: What is this 'real astrology'? And why do you think the " other " one (there has got to be one in this realm of duality, I suppose?) is not! > > :-) <still smiling as you can see!> > > RR > > , Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ ...> wrote: > > > > Namastay Suresh ji, > > > > RR Ji has cited a passage about me from your beautiful posting, which may have finer nuances for him. RR Ji is master of language, making multilayered meanings in a single statements. Hence, I must clarify two points : > > > > <<<< " It would be better if Shri Vinay Ji ignore the musings between Sri > > VR.Krishna & Shri Rohini Ranjan. They are old buddies. Truthfully, > > some times I fail to understand them. But, Krishna Ji's predictions are > > at times very accurate with the use " physical astronomy " >>>> > > > > As I gather from previous posts, VR Krishn Ji is nearly equal to me in age and Shri Rohini Ranjan Ji is senior by a few years, but it does not mean I belong to a younger generation having no right to discuss topics which are supposedly reserved for " old buddies " . I have no desire to join the league of " senior " members here because joining a forum lately is taken as a token of junior status. Let me remain a junior. Persons one generation junior to me have used foul language for me, and persons equal to me are old buddies in my comparison. > > > > GB Prashant Ji said that Raman Ji's and Gayatri ji's predictions were very good, hence the method used by them (physical astronomy) is a proven one. RR Ji is repeating the statement from you which carries same meaning : " Krishna Ji's predictions are > > at times very accurate with the use physical astronomy " . > > > > Mr Arun Bansal of Leo Gold and Future Point carried out a statistical count of good and bad forecasts, and concluded in his editorial that 70% of predictions are good (all made along physical astronomy). I do not contend his figure. What I want to say is that a person with good Jyotishi-yogas in his/her own chart will be on the side of 70% and will almost always make good predictions, and another person using same software but having no good yogas in his/her own chart may fall on the side of remaining 30%. > > > > Hence, there must be some OBJECTIVE method of deciding the issue. It is wrong to say that so and so persons used physical astronomy and therefore it is the only correct method and other methods must be suppressed. This stans presupposes that all those astrologers of past and present who did not and do not use pgysical astronomy were making false predictions all the time, and everyone in India was a fool to believe in their unscientific method and wrong predictions for thousands of years ! > > > > Rhetoric will never solve this problem. There are only methods to solve this issue. One method is impartiam comparison of both methods. Another way is to abuse me away as a handful of youngstwers are doing, or to suppress my view without testing as the unreliable views of a newbie as one " old buddy " is trying to do. RR Ji is also under an oath never to dicsuss real astrology with me. > > > > I know the case studies I am preparing now will be ignored by those persons who have already made up their minds. But it will not stop my work. After posting my case studies, I will wait for some time, and will then leave all those forums where impartial comparison of both methods will be deleiberately neglected. At present, I have some hope that some persons may be interested in impartial reviews. > > > > -Vinay Jha > > > > ============ ========= === == > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan@ ...> > > > > Sunday, May 24, 2009 7:36:13 AM > > Re: Ayanamsha , Vedic Astrology! 23/5 & Liars > > > > > > > > > > > > Namastay Suresh ji, > > > > What a beautiful sharing! Thank you very much for taking the time and donating your energy to this issue/matter that keeps coming back like a bumble bee hovering over someone who is trying to paint their side of fence so that it looks pretty {not pretti-er because I do not know how the fence of 'reality' looks from the other side!} :-) > > > > |||||||||||| ||||||||| ||||||||| || > > It would be better if Shri Vinay Ji ignore the musings between Sri VR.Krishna & Shri Rohini Ranjan. They are old buddies. Truthfully, some times I fail to understand them. But, Krishna Ji's predictions are at times very accurate with the use " physical astronomy " " > > |||||||||||| ||||||||| ||||||||| || > > > > Yes Krishnan ji and I go back a while! Although he is a few years younger I call him 'Dada' because of the scenario in which we met in silicon-reality! That aside, I may seem to be a bit callous in my post through not giving the entire nine yards of the 'background' and assuming that the readers already know or will figure out from earlier verbiage.. Partly, this is to avoid further lengthening my already long-winded replies. The ability to type fast can sometimes be a burden! Particularly on the readers! Like jyotish, 'typing' came into my life almost serendipitously, as if by destiny and both became very crucial in life, mundane and otherwise. But there I go again ...:-) > > > > RR > > > > , " sureshbabuag " <sureshbabuag@ ....> wrote: > > > > > > Namasthe, > > > > > > I have been trying to distance myself from these fracases as much as possible. It is not uncommon that some heat is generated during a hot discussion. However, being well-educated persons and intelligent than most common people, we have a responsibility for being civil particularly in a public forum. Unfortunately, even private mails are even made a matter of discussion that every one shall agree, is not appropriate. Further, it is also not very good to jump into conclusions at what others have expressed and try to assert oneself. Some persons will be good at expressing themselves than others and yet some will be good at English than others. What is most important is the intention and essence of what is said. This forum is intended to help others in resolving their problems (that is what I think it is) and not to create a state of confusion and distraught. Any common persons who wants to seek help and guidance here, will be thinking " if these are > > people are fighting with each other and are confused, how can they guide me?, is astrology so good to be depended upon? " . Is this the impression we want to project?. > > > > > > As far as choice of " Ayanamsa " and Suryasidhanta is concerned let me try to clarify certain points. From time of Vedas, Astrology has never been an independent branch of study. It was part and parcel of study of Vedas, Smrithis, Upanishads etc. This means the knowledge of planets / astrology was backed by the knowledge of Vedas.. It was only a small part of the wholesome knowledge. But since the last 1000 years or so, Astrology was delineated as an independent branch and separated from the rest of the traditional knowledge. Though it gained much popularity, much of the true knowledge was lost or ignored in due course of time. In recent times due to economic upsurge, many books also began to appear on astrology, which any one can buy and learn. One can imagine the confusions it has created even by the posts on this very forum. > > > > > > Since Sri Vinay Jha has become the focal point in these discussions, I cannot but express his name though reluctantly. As far as I understand about his presentation of Suryasidhanta, there is nothing wrong in it and he is not entirely wrong in saying that physical astronomy is different from the planets as deities. Perhaps the problem is the way he express it and passionately too. Too passionate to the liking of others. We shall understand this better if we remember the controversy of actual moment of Sun rise. Some acharyas claim that Sun rise is when the " Bimba " is just above the horizon, some claim it when the half of soorya bimba is visible and some claim it is when the poorna bimba is seen above the horizon. Similar controversy exists about the lagna also. Some people say the time of birth is when the head is seen out side, yet some others say it is when the cries out and some others claim it is when the whole body comes out (prishtodaya? ). So > > also the position of other planets will also have similar difference of opinion. > > > > > > Similarly, as Shri Rohini ji has pointed out every mass has a ring of energy around it, which we have learned in school doing experiment with magnets and iron powder. This can be called aura or chaya etc. this means the planets like any mass of body do have an aura of energy ring outside its physical form. This is not a new finding. Physical astronomy as Shri Vinay Ji calls it relies on the position of the physical mass of the body (planet), while considering the area of magnetic force of influence is also not wrong as we are try to equate the physical existence and its influence. The lagna chart or rasi chakra as we call it is sthira chakra, the orientation of planets as we see it from earth. In reality, the alignment of planets are a little different in outer space. All these various methods of computations and ayanamsa are an effort to synchronize the sthira chakra with the alignment of planets in the outer space. Within a small percentage of > > difference depending on the size of planets vs its distance from earth and sun, no one can claim absolute accuracy over the other. Since we are talking about the orbit of magnetic spectrum which by itself is very difficult to compute, their influence over effects is also equally difficult to fathom. The technical term used by astronomers whether modern or traditional such as geocentric, heliocentric or merucentric all refer to the alignment of the sthira with the real positions of planets in the outer space which is also termed chara chakra. As the centers shift from one school of thought to another, the interpretations may also need to be changed. This can be seen the difference in various systems like the common (varaha/parasara/ jaimini) Vs kp system Vs Tajik system. The surya chara that defines the day/month.year is also a matter of controversy due to the actual date In the preset calendar terms of 365.25…. days and 360days (360 spokes of > chakra). > > > > > > Pure astronomers may explain the above in a different and more complex language. > > > > > > Our ancient sages have held that we, our surrounding etc are only a smaller replica of the whole universe or what we call as milky way. This complicates the matter further. Darshanopanishad provides us an insight on this view. > > > > > > " pi~Ngalaayaa iDaayaaM tu vaayoH saMkramaNaM tu yat > > > taduttaraayaNaM proktaM mune vedaantavedibhiH " > > > > > > Uttarayana Sankramana occures due to the prana sanchara from Pingala nadi to Eda Nadi. > > > > > > iDayaaH pi~NgalaayaaM tu praaNasaMkramaNaM mune > > > dakshiNaayanamityuk taM pi~NgaLaayaamiti shruti > > > > > > Dakshinayana Sankramana occures due the prana sancharana from Eda Nadi to the Pingala Nadi. > > > > > > iDaapi~NgaLayoH saMdhiM yadaa praaNaH samaagataH > > > amaavaasyaa tadaa proktaa dehe dehabhritaaM vara > > > > > > Amavaya occures during the union of prana sanchara in Eda Nadi and the Pingala Nadi > > > > > > muulaadhaaraM yadaa praaNaH praviShTaH paNDitottama > > > tadaadyaM viShuvaM proktaM taapasaistaapasotta ma > > > praaNasaMGYo munishreShTa muurdhaanaM praavishadyadaa > > > tadantyaM viShuvaM proktaM taapasaistattvachin takaiH > > > > > > Vishu is the point when the prana situates in the Mooladhara and Moordhani > > > > > > niH shvaasocChvaasanaM sarva maasaanaaM saMkramo bhavet > > > Months occures due to the breathing- inhaling & exhaling process. > > > > > > iDayaa kUNDaliisthaanaM yadaa praaNaH samagataH > > > somagrahaNamityukta M tada tatvavidaaM vara > > > > > > Chandra grihana occures when prana in the Eda Nadi reaches the Kundali Sthana. > > > > > > yadaa pi~NgaLayaa praaNaH kuNdaLiisthaanamaag ataH > > > tad tad bhavet suuryagrahaNaM munipu~Ngava. . > > > > > > Surya Grihana occcures when the Prana in the pingala nadi reaches the kundali sthana. > > > > > > From the above one can imagine the depth of this science. What all has to remember is as soon as we assign a number to a planet like longitudes, it ceases to be mystic in nature. Hence, there is absolutely no point is saying that one method is human and the other is divine. It just becomes a way of expression and the learned members need not be agitated over the use of such expressions. > > > > > > Till a few years back traditional astrologers were dead against computer generated horoscopes, but has started to accept them. I was playing with computers when most of the members probably barely knew about its existence during the early dos3.1 era I created an astrology software with almost 2.5 lack line of code in c language in early 90's. I have now created much advanced software with many features suitable for researching and still adding them. While I am thankful to Shri Vinay ji for providing a software on suryasidhanta, I sincerely hope that he abstain from jumping into arguments for every posts even if it doesn't relate to him or for that matter any one. It would be better if Shri Vinay Ji ignore the musings between Sri VR.Krishna & Shri Rohini Ranjan. They are old buddies. Truthfully, some times I fail to understand them. But, Krishna Ji's predictions are at times very accurate with the use " physical astronomy " like every one else and that > is > > what counts as far as a common person is concerned. Rohini Ji has a more practical approach to life with his radical thinking. And Shri Prashant Kumar also is well experienced in astrology. > > > > > > I have been doing research on these subjects now for around 30 years and have never ceased to be surprised at the amount of information that is still lying buried in our scriptures. Today I was casually reading Maha Narayanopashid and came across a verse used in " Mrithika Pooja " , though as a Brahmin, we have used it several times, I was amused when its real meaning dawned on me. > > > > > > " ashvakraante rathakraante viShNukraante vasundharaa > > > shirasaa dhaarayiShyaami rakshasva maaM pade pade.. " > > > > > > The learned members can possibly understand its significance and I leave it to the others to put up some effort. > > > > > > This science is not going to end up with Surya Sindhanta or its efficacy nor with Shri Vinay Ji or Hari or Sunil or whatever name. Most of the seniors on this forum are around 50 (I am actually slightly elder than Shri Prashant Kumar) and with whatever life is left let us try to gain more knowledge and share it to help others. frankly speaking I dont care as to when this world is going to end or whether it crosses the 6777whatever population. what I care is about this life, how we live it and help others to find a little relief in their suffering. If we consider the word " akalpayath " , all this is going to be repeated in the next kalpa or yuga, but can't we make this space a more peaceful and useful one?, rest assured we may meet again. > > > > > > I must thank all the elders including Shri Prasant Kumar as moderator for trying their best to maintain a level of diplomacy. I beg your pardon if I have sounded a little harsh or out of context. I was pained by post of Shri Prashant Kumar about liars (I can imagine the pain he is going through) and to see again a burst of posts that are just repeats of earlier one which doesn't enhance the image of this esteemed forum. > > > > > > " satyam bhruuyat priyam bhruuyat " > > > " na bhruuyat satyaapriyam " > > > > > > One should tell the truth and one should tell what others like, but never tell the truth in a way that others will dislike. In short, use diplomacy. > > > > > > A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 24, 2009 Report Share Posted May 24, 2009 Dear Vinay Jha Jee, You ask all of us to test your software first and then decide and many of us did and got nowhere due to the *virus* on our computer or other reasons! Right now as I see it, even if your claimed product is superior, we have not seen any evidence of that. If your software and SS is a better alternative, you should be able to score high on Dymock's site, would that not make sense? Once you have made a few 'hits' there we can discuss charts and real astrology as you call it! Until then I am just observing you with mild curiosity, at best! Sigh!! RR , Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16 wrote: > > RR Ji, > > It is second time you gave me this link. You do not know that Suryasiddhanta will receive 100 times more abuses on a foreign astrological site than on Indian one. Testing needs impartiality. > > If you have no time to discuss charts with me, why do you prompt me to go to others, who are not better than you ? > > > The world is too big, and I am in no need to go at every door to convince everyone about Suryasiddhanta. It is just the opposite. Suryasiddhantais given to those who perform tapasyaa and reform themselves. I broke this rule just because I wanted to see how much abuses I get. But even after tolerating so much abuses, I am unable to convince persons like you that I am fully convinced of my righteousness and that is why I am tolerating so much humiliation. 13 case studies are lying at my site, and 200 case studies are published in my Hindi book (being enlarged for second edition). Has anyone in these forums ever tried to prove me wrong astrologically ? I receive private messages that software works wonders, but they fear sending such messages in public forums, because they do not want to be abused. > > -VJ > ==================== ==== > > > ________________________________ > Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan > > Sunday, May 24, 2009 3:36:52 PM > Re: Let us turn a fresh page > > > > > > In fact Vinay jee, please allow me to open up and reiterate again -- an opportunity for you to 'demonstrate' if that is where you are going: > > http://members. ozemail.com. au/~dymock/ index.html > > Please <click> and the rest would follow > > RR > > , Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ ...> wrote: > > > > RR Ji, > > > > <<<< " What is this 'real astrology'? And why do you think the > > " other " one (there has got to be one in this realm of duality, I > > suppose?) is not! " >>>> > > > > Real astrology is chart analysis and related issues.. The " other " one is every bit of non-astrological musings in astrological forums. > > > > I hope I am not offending. > > > > -VJ > > > > ============ ========= ===== > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan@ ...> > > > > Sunday, May 24, 2009 1:37:37 PM > > Let us turn a fresh page > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Vinay Jee, > > > > As to your statement, " RR Ji is also under an oath never to dicsuss real astrology with me. " > > > > I may have received the papers but I have not placed my signature on those ;-) > > > > I hope that does not disturb your slumber! > > > > Pray tell: What is this 'real astrology'? And why do you think the " other " one (there has got to be one in this realm of duality, I suppose?) is not! > > > > :-) <still smiling as you can see!> > > > > RR > > > > , Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > Namastay Suresh ji, > > > > > > RR Ji has cited a passage about me from your beautiful posting, which may have finer nuances for him. RR Ji is master of language, making multilayered meanings in a single statements. Hence, I must clarify two points : > > > > > > <<<< " It would be better if Shri Vinay Ji ignore the musings between Sri > > > VR.Krishna & Shri Rohini Ranjan. They are old buddies. Truthfully, > > > some times I fail to understand them. But, Krishna Ji's predictions are > > > at times very accurate with the use " physical astronomy " >>>> > > > > > > As I gather from previous posts, VR Krishn Ji is nearly equal to me in age and Shri Rohini Ranjan Ji is senior by a few years, but it does not mean I belong to a younger generation having no right to discuss topics which are supposedly reserved for " old buddies " . I have no desire to join the league of " senior " members here because joining a forum lately is taken as a token of junior status. Let me remain a junior. Persons one generation junior to me have used foul language for me, and persons equal to me are old buddies in my comparison. > > > > > > GB Prashant Ji said that Raman Ji's and Gayatri ji's predictions were very good, hence the method used by them (physical astronomy) is a proven one. RR Ji is repeating the statement from you which carries same meaning : " Krishna Ji's predictions are > > > at times very accurate with the use physical astronomy " . > > > > > > Mr Arun Bansal of Leo Gold and Future Point carried out a statistical count of good and bad forecasts, and concluded in his editorial that 70% of predictions are good (all made along physical astronomy). I do not contend his figure. What I want to say is that a person with good Jyotishi-yogas in his/her own chart will be on the side of 70% and will almost always make good predictions, and another person using same software but having no good yogas in his/her own chart may fall on the side of remaining 30%. > > > > > > Hence, there must be some OBJECTIVE method of deciding the issue. It is wrong to say that so and so persons used physical astronomy and therefore it is the only correct method and other methods must be suppressed. This stans presupposes that all those astrologers of past and present who did not and do not use pgysical astronomy were making false predictions all the time, and everyone in India was a fool to believe in their unscientific method and wrong predictions for thousands of years ! > > > > > > Rhetoric will never solve this problem. There are only methods to solve this issue. One method is impartiam comparison of both methods. Another way is to abuse me away as a handful of youngstwers are doing, or to suppress my view without testing as the unreliable views of a newbie as one " old buddy " is trying to do. RR Ji is also under an oath never to dicsuss real astrology with me. > > > > > > I know the case studies I am preparing now will be ignored by those persons who have already made up their minds. But it will not stop my work. After posting my case studies, I will wait for some time, and will then leave all those forums where impartial comparison of both methods will be deleiberately neglected. At present, I have some hope that some persons may be interested in impartial reviews. > > > > > > -Vinay Jha > > > > > > ============ ========= === == > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan@ ...> > > > > > > Sunday, May 24, 2009 7:36:13 AM > > > Re: Ayanamsha , Vedic Astrology! 23/5 & Liars > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namastay Suresh ji, > > > > > > What a beautiful sharing! Thank you very much for taking the time and donating your energy to this issue/matter that keeps coming back like a bumble bee hovering over someone who is trying to paint their side of fence so that it looks pretty {not pretti-er because I do not know how the fence of 'reality' looks from the other side!} :-) > > > > > > |||||||||||| ||||||||| ||||||||| || > > > It would be better if Shri Vinay Ji ignore the musings between Sri VR.Krishna & Shri Rohini Ranjan. They are old buddies. Truthfully, some times I fail to understand them. But, Krishna Ji's predictions are at times very accurate with the use " physical astronomy " " > > > |||||||||||| ||||||||| ||||||||| || > > > > > > Yes Krishnan ji and I go back a while! Although he is a few years younger I call him 'Dada' because of the scenario in which we met in silicon-reality! That aside, I may seem to be a bit callous in my post through not giving the entire nine yards of the 'background' and assuming that the readers already know or will figure out from earlier verbiage.. Partly, this is to avoid further lengthening my already long-winded replies. The ability to type fast can sometimes be a burden! Particularly on the readers! Like jyotish, 'typing' came into my life almost serendipitously, as if by destiny and both became very crucial in life, mundane and otherwise. But there I go again ...:-) > > > > > > RR > > > > > > , " sureshbabuag " <sureshbabuag@ ....> wrote: > > > > > > > > Namasthe, > > > > > > > > I have been trying to distance myself from these fracases as much as possible. It is not uncommon that some heat is generated during a hot discussion. However, being well-educated persons and intelligent than most common people, we have a responsibility for being civil particularly in a public forum. Unfortunately, even private mails are even made a matter of discussion that every one shall agree, is not appropriate. Further, it is also not very good to jump into conclusions at what others have expressed and try to assert oneself. Some persons will be good at expressing themselves than others and yet some will be good at English than others. What is most important is the intention and essence of what is said. This forum is intended to help others in resolving their problems (that is what I think it is) and not to create a state of confusion and distraught. Any common persons who wants to seek help and guidance here, will be thinking " if these are > > > people are fighting with each other and are confused, how can they guide me?, is astrology so good to be depended upon? " . Is this the impression we want to project?. > > > > > > > > As far as choice of " Ayanamsa " and Suryasidhanta is concerned let me try to clarify certain points. From time of Vedas, Astrology has never been an independent branch of study. It was part and parcel of study of Vedas, Smrithis, Upanishads etc. This means the knowledge of planets / astrology was backed by the knowledge of Vedas.. It was only a small part of the wholesome knowledge. But since the last 1000 years or so, Astrology was delineated as an independent branch and separated from the rest of the traditional knowledge. Though it gained much popularity, much of the true knowledge was lost or ignored in due course of time. In recent times due to economic upsurge, many books also began to appear on astrology, which any one can buy and learn. One can imagine the confusions it has created even by the posts on this very forum. > > > > > > > > Since Sri Vinay Jha has become the focal point in these discussions, I cannot but express his name though reluctantly. As far as I understand about his presentation of Suryasidhanta, there is nothing wrong in it and he is not entirely wrong in saying that physical astronomy is different from the planets as deities. Perhaps the problem is the way he express it and passionately too. Too passionate to the liking of others. We shall understand this better if we remember the controversy of actual moment of Sun rise. Some acharyas claim that Sun rise is when the " Bimba " is just above the horizon, some claim it when the half of soorya bimba is visible and some claim it is when the poorna bimba is seen above the horizon. Similar controversy exists about the lagna also. Some people say the time of birth is when the head is seen out side, yet some others say it is when the cries out and some others claim it is when the whole body comes out (prishtodaya? ). So > > > also the position of other planets will also have similar difference of opinion. > > > > > > > > Similarly, as Shri Rohini ji has pointed out every mass has a ring of energy around it, which we have learned in school doing experiment with magnets and iron powder. This can be called aura or chaya etc. this means the planets like any mass of body do have an aura of energy ring outside its physical form. This is not a new finding. Physical astronomy as Shri Vinay Ji calls it relies on the position of the physical mass of the body (planet), while considering the area of magnetic force of influence is also not wrong as we are try to equate the physical existence and its influence. The lagna chart or rasi chakra as we call it is sthira chakra, the orientation of planets as we see it from earth. In reality, the alignment of planets are a little different in outer space. All these various methods of computations and ayanamsa are an effort to synchronize the sthira chakra with the alignment of planets in the outer space. Within a small percentage of > > > difference depending on the size of planets vs its distance from earth and sun, no one can claim absolute accuracy over the other. Since we are talking about the orbit of magnetic spectrum which by itself is very difficult to compute, their influence over effects is also equally difficult to fathom. The technical term used by astronomers whether modern or traditional such as geocentric, heliocentric or merucentric all refer to the alignment of the sthira with the real positions of planets in the outer space which is also termed chara chakra. As the centers shift from one school of thought to another, the interpretations may also need to be changed. This can be seen the difference in various systems like the common (varaha/parasara/ jaimini) Vs kp system Vs Tajik system. The surya chara that defines the day/month.year is also a matter of controversy due to the actual date In the preset calendar terms of 365.25…. days and 360days (360 > spokes of > > chakra). > > > > > > > > Pure astronomers may explain the above in a different and more complex language. > > > > > > > > Our ancient sages have held that we, our surrounding etc are only a smaller replica of the whole universe or what we call as milky way. This complicates the matter further. Darshanopanishad provides us an insight on this view. > > > > > > > > " pi~Ngalaayaa iDaayaaM tu vaayoH saMkramaNaM tu yat > > > > taduttaraayaNaM proktaM mune vedaantavedibhiH " > > > > > > > > Uttarayana Sankramana occures due to the prana sanchara from Pingala nadi to Eda Nadi. > > > > > > > > iDayaaH pi~NgalaayaaM tu praaNasaMkramaNaM mune > > > > dakshiNaayanamityuk taM pi~NgaLaayaamiti shruti > > > > > > > > Dakshinayana Sankramana occures due the prana sancharana from Eda Nadi to the Pingala Nadi. > > > > > > > > iDaapi~NgaLayoH saMdhiM yadaa praaNaH samaagataH > > > > amaavaasyaa tadaa proktaa dehe dehabhritaaM vara > > > > > > > > Amavaya occures during the union of prana sanchara in Eda Nadi and the Pingala Nadi > > > > > > > > muulaadhaaraM yadaa praaNaH praviShTaH paNDitottama > > > > tadaadyaM viShuvaM proktaM taapasaistaapasotta ma > > > > praaNasaMGYo munishreShTa muurdhaanaM praavishadyadaa > > > > tadantyaM viShuvaM proktaM taapasaistattvachin takaiH > > > > > > > > Vishu is the point when the prana situates in the Mooladhara and Moordhani > > > > > > > > niH shvaasocChvaasanaM sarva maasaanaaM saMkramo bhavet > > > > Months occures due to the breathing- inhaling & exhaling process. > > > > > > > > iDayaa kUNDaliisthaanaM yadaa praaNaH samagataH > > > > somagrahaNamityukta M tada tatvavidaaM vara > > > > > > > > Chandra grihana occures when prana in the Eda Nadi reaches the Kundali Sthana. > > > > > > > > yadaa pi~NgaLayaa praaNaH kuNdaLiisthaanamaag ataH > > > > tad tad bhavet suuryagrahaNaM munipu~Ngava. . > > > > > > > > Surya Grihana occcures when the Prana in the pingala nadi reaches the kundali sthana. > > > > > > > > From the above one can imagine the depth of this science. What all has to remember is as soon as we assign a number to a planet like longitudes, it ceases to be mystic in nature. Hence, there is absolutely no point is saying that one method is human and the other is divine. It just becomes a way of expression and the learned members need not be agitated over the use of such expressions. > > > > > > > > Till a few years back traditional astrologers were dead against computer generated horoscopes, but has started to accept them. I was playing with computers when most of the members probably barely knew about its existence during the early dos3.1 era I created an astrology software with almost 2.5 lack line of code in c language in early 90's. I have now created much advanced software with many features suitable for researching and still adding them. While I am thankful to Shri Vinay ji for providing a software on suryasidhanta, I sincerely hope that he abstain from jumping into arguments for every posts even if it doesn't relate to him or for that matter any one. It would be better if Shri Vinay Ji ignore the musings between Sri VR.Krishna & Shri Rohini Ranjan. They are old buddies. Truthfully, some times I fail to understand them. But, Krishna Ji's predictions are at times very accurate with the use " physical astronomy " like every one else and that > > is > > > what counts as far as a common person is concerned. Rohini Ji has a more practical approach to life with his radical thinking. And Shri Prashant Kumar also is well experienced in astrology. > > > > > > > > I have been doing research on these subjects now for around 30 years and have never ceased to be surprised at the amount of information that is still lying buried in our scriptures. Today I was casually reading Maha Narayanopashid and came across a verse used in " Mrithika Pooja " , though as a Brahmin, we have used it several times, I was amused when its real meaning dawned on me. > > > > > > > > " ashvakraante rathakraante viShNukraante vasundharaa > > > > shirasaa dhaarayiShyaami rakshasva maaM pade pade.. " > > > > > > > > The learned members can possibly understand its significance and I leave it to the others to put up some effort. > > > > > > > > This science is not going to end up with Surya Sindhanta or its efficacy nor with Shri Vinay Ji or Hari or Sunil or whatever name. Most of the seniors on this forum are around 50 (I am actually slightly elder than Shri Prashant Kumar) and with whatever life is left let us try to gain more knowledge and share it to help others. frankly speaking I dont care as to when this world is going to end or whether it crosses the 6777whatever population. what I care is about this life, how we live it and help others to find a little relief in their suffering. If we consider the word " akalpayath " , all this is going to be repeated in the next kalpa or yuga, but can't we make this space a more peaceful and useful one?, rest assured we may meet again. > > > > > > > > I must thank all the elders including Shri Prasant Kumar as moderator for trying their best to maintain a level of diplomacy. I beg your pardon if I have sounded a little harsh or out of context. I was pained by post of Shri Prashant Kumar about liars (I can imagine the pain he is going through) and to see again a burst of posts that are just repeats of earlier one which doesn't enhance the image of this esteemed forum. > > > > > > > > " satyam bhruuyat priyam bhruuyat " > > > > " na bhruuyat satyaapriyam " > > > > > > > > One should tell the truth and one should tell what others like, but never tell the truth in a way that others will dislike. In short, use diplomacy. > > > > > > > > A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 24, 2009 Report Share Posted May 24, 2009 , Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16 wrote: <SNIP>... You do not know that Suryasiddhanta will receive 100 times more abuses on a foreign astrological site than on Indian one. Testing needs impartiality... <SNIP> Dear Vinay Jha Jee, have no fear! Dymock does not ask for you astrological reasoning so SS is safe! He just gives the birth data, a certain date when the event took place and a few possibilities one of which you pick based on whatever and any astro-logic. You would not even have to breathe the word SuryaSiddhanta or even JYOTISH! And he publishes the responses of only those who are successful. Please give it a try without fear... RR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 24, 2009 Report Share Posted May 24, 2009 RR Ji, You see only the immediate response of Dymock. If my method is wrong, nothing will happen. But there is another scenario which you do not consider : forgetful of what will happen when my results will prove to be true and attract attention towards my " unscientific " method. Please send a Vetaala of Vikramaaditya or Chiraaga of Alaadina who will work 500 hours a day for me. Why you think I am doing nothing ? Here is a list of my projests : (1) running 7 schools, colleges (all Sanskrit), and managing real fights rather than verval duels moderators are here expected to manage. (2) publishing 7 panchangas (3) contributing 38 pages in astrological magazine (4) managing a close forum, many websites (some closed ones) (5) updating over two dozen softwares (6) answering ALL messages to or about me in half a dozen fora (7) translating hitherto untranslated Jyotisha texts (Bhaskar's Vaasanaabhaashya about Siddhanta Shiromani, Kamlakara Bhatta's Siddhaanta-tattva-viveka) (8) commentary on Suryasiddhanta involving comparative study with all ancient and modern theories of astronomy (9) making and updating softwares about other ancient and modern siddhantas for my comparative study of all ancient and modern theories of astronomy (10) procuring and collating all available manuscripts and published versions of BPHS for bring out a critical edition of the original text (11) collection of astrological references in entire ancient literature of India (esp Vedic-Puranic); the most voluminous of them MBh has already been finished. (12) besides all these " possible " tasks , I have one " impossible " task forced upon me (which I never accepted) : to prove my correctness to those who will not install my software (for whatever fault in my knowledge or character) and never read case studies sent by me. My future credentials will be zero for those who do not value my past credentials. Sincerely, -VJ ============ ========= ________________________________ Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan Sunday, May 24, 2009 4:48:09 PM Re: Let us turn a fresh page , Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ ...> wrote: <SNIP>... You do not know that Suryasiddhanta will receive 100 times more abuses on a foreign astrological site than on Indian one. Testing needs impartiality. ... <SNIP> Dear Vinay Jha Jee, have no fear! Dymock does not ask for you astrological reasoning so SS is safe! He just gives the birth data, a certain date when the event took place and a few possibilities one of which you pick based on whatever and any astro-logic. You would not even have to breathe the word SuryaSiddhanta or even JYOTISH! And he publishes the responses of only those who are successful. Please give it a try without fear... RR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 24, 2009 Report Share Posted May 24, 2009 To All, I am requesting for two days to allow me just four " quiet " days to prepare case studies and forecasts, but RR Ji has decided to ignore my requests. Now, I am forced to make statements which I never wanted to. Here are my replies to his recent mail : ---------------- (1) <<< " You ask all of us to test your software first and then decide and many of us did and got nowhere due to the *virus* on our computer or other reasons! " >>> I have no plan to keep on updating for all versions and all systems in the world for ever, because it is just impossible. 2086 persons downloaded Kundalee since 1-1-2009, and nearly 20 complained of installation problems. Such complaints have decreased after recent update on 6-6-2009. He says " You ask all of us to test your software first and then decide and many of us did and got nowhere " . What about those who installed Kundalee? Some of them are reporting me privately, because they do not want to be abused in fora by discussing Kundalee. ---------------- (2) <<< " Right now as I see it, even if your claimed product is superior, we have not seen any evidence of that. " >>> There are persons who regard following as sufficient evidences : (1) Verification of Vinay Jha's Rain Forecast by NASA ; (2) Call by Royal Met. Society for Paper ; (3) Acceptance of Vinay Jha's Paper by CAOS, IISc, Bangalore ; (4) Consensus about Suryasiddhanta to be the Basis for National Panchangas ; (5) University's Decision following High Court order for probe (6) Various Govt and other institutions publishing panchangas from my software These are not evidences as you see it , because these institutions are outside the " we " you are using for yourself. ---------------- <<< " If your software and SS is a better alternative, you should be able to score high on Dymock's site, would that not make sense? " >>> If institutions having verified my work are nothing for you, may I ask who is this Dymock and what is the authenticity of his data? And how his data will change the world ? I am not a messiah and changing the world is not my mission. I have already sent you the long list of my workload. If I ever get time, I may try to put case studies at Dymock. All my time is being wasted over useless correspondences which will decide nothing. RR Ji had already expressed his wish earlier that I must leave all fora and take care of moksha. -VJ ===================== === ________________________________ Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan Sunday, May 24, 2009 4:10:33 PM Re: Let us turn a fresh page Dear Vinay Jha Jee, You ask all of us to test your software first and then decide and many of us did and got nowhere due to the *virus* on our computer or other reasons! Right now as I see it, even if your claimed product is superior, we have not seen any evidence of that. If your software and SS is a better alternative, you should be able to score high on Dymock's site, would that not make sense? Once you have made a few 'hits' there we can discuss charts and real astrology as you call it! Until then I am just observing you with mild curiosity, at best! Sigh!! RR , Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ ...> wrote: > > RR Ji, > > It is second time you gave me this link. You do not know that Suryasiddhanta will receive 100 times more abuses on a foreign astrological site than on Indian one. Testing needs impartiality. > > If you have no time to discuss charts with me, why do you prompt me to go to others, who are not better than you ? > > > The world is too big, and I am in no need to go at every door to convince everyone about Suryasiddhanta. It is just the opposite. Suryasiddhantais given to those who perform tapasyaa and reform themselves. I broke this rule just because I wanted to see how much abuses I get. But even after tolerating so much abuses, I am unable to convince persons like you that I am fully convinced of my righteousness and that is why I am tolerating so much humiliation. 13 case studies are lying at my site, and 200 case studies are published in my Hindi book (being enlarged for second edition). Has anyone in these forums ever tried to prove me wrong astrologically ? I receive private messages that software works wonders, but they fear sending such messages in public forums, because they do not want to be abused. > > -VJ > ============ ======== ==== > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan@ ...> > > Sunday, May 24, 2009 3:36:52 PM > Re: Let us turn a fresh page > > > > > > In fact Vinay jee, please allow me to open up and reiterate again -- an opportunity for you to 'demonstrate' if that is where you are going: > > http://members. ozemail.com. au/~dymock/ index.html > > Please <click> and the rest would follow > > RR > > , Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ ...> wrote: > > > > RR Ji, > > > > <<<< " What is this 'real astrology'? And why do you think the > > " other " one (there has got to be one in this realm of duality, I > > suppose?) is not! " >>>> > > > > Real astrology is chart analysis and related issues.. The " other " one is every bit of non-astrological musings in astrological forums. > > > > I hope I am not offending. > > > > -VJ > > > > ============ ========= ===== > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan@ ...> > > > > Sunday, May 24, 2009 1:37:37 PM > > Let us turn a fresh page > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Vinay Jee, > > > > As to your statement, " RR Ji is also under an oath never to dicsuss real astrology with me. " > > > > I may have received the papers but I have not placed my signature on those ;-) > > > > I hope that does not disturb your slumber! > > > > Pray tell: What is this 'real astrology'? And why do you think the " other " one (there has got to be one in this realm of duality, I suppose?) is not! > > > > :-) <still smiling as you can see!> > > > > RR > > > > , Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > Namastay Suresh ji, > > > > > > RR Ji has cited a passage about me from your beautiful posting, which may have finer nuances for him.. RR Ji is master of language, making multilayered meanings in a single statements. Hence, I must clarify two points : > > > > > > <<<< " It would be better if Shri Vinay Ji ignore the musings between Sri > > > VR.Krishna & Shri Rohini Ranjan. They are old buddies. Truthfully, > > > some times I fail to understand them. But, Krishna Ji's predictions are > > > at times very accurate with the use " physical astronomy " >>>> > > > > > > As I gather from previous posts, VR Krishn Ji is nearly equal to me in age and Shri Rohini Ranjan Ji is senior by a few years, but it does not mean I belong to a younger generation having no right to discuss topics which are supposedly reserved for " old buddies " . I have no desire to join the league of " senior " members here because joining a forum lately is taken as a token of junior status. Let me remain a junior. Persons one generation junior to me have used foul language for me, and persons equal to me are old buddies in my comparison. > > > > > > GB Prashant Ji said that Raman Ji's and Gayatri ji's predictions were very good, hence the method used by them (physical astronomy) is a proven one. RR Ji is repeating the statement from you which carries same meaning : " Krishna Ji's predictions are > > > at times very accurate with the use physical astronomy " . > > > > > > Mr Arun Bansal of Leo Gold and Future Point carried out a statistical count of good and bad forecasts, and concluded in his editorial that 70% of predictions are good (all made along physical astronomy). I do not contend his figure. What I want to say is that a person with good Jyotishi-yogas in his/her own chart will be on the side of 70% and will almost always make good predictions, and another person using same software but having no good yogas in his/her own chart may fall on the side of remaining 30%. > > > > > > Hence, there must be some OBJECTIVE method of deciding the issue. It is wrong to say that so and so persons used physical astronomy and therefore it is the only correct method and other methods must be suppressed. This stans presupposes that all those astrologers of past and present who did not and do not use pgysical astronomy were making false predictions all the time, and everyone in India was a fool to believe in their unscientific method and wrong predictions for thousands of years ! > > > > > > Rhetoric will never solve this problem. There are only methods to solve this issue. One method is impartiam comparison of both methods. Another way is to abuse me away as a handful of youngstwers are doing, or to suppress my view without testing as the unreliable views of a newbie as one " old buddy " is trying to do. RR Ji is also under an oath never to dicsuss real astrology with me. > > > > > > I know the case studies I am preparing now will be ignored by those persons who have already made up their minds. But it will not stop my work. After posting my case studies, I will wait for some time, and will then leave all those forums where impartial comparison of both methods will be deleiberately neglected. At present, I have some hope that some persons may be interested in impartial reviews. > > > > > > -Vinay Jha > > > > > > ============ ========= === == > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan@ ...> > > > > > > Sunday, May 24, 2009 7:36:13 AM > > > Re: Ayanamsha , Vedic Astrology! 23/5 & Liars > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namastay Suresh ji, > > > > > > What a beautiful sharing! Thank you very much for taking the time and donating your energy to this issue/matter that keeps coming back like a bumble bee hovering over someone who is trying to paint their side of fence so that it looks pretty {not pretti-er because I do not know how the fence of 'reality' looks from the other side!} :-) > > > > > > |||||||||||| ||||||||| ||||||||| || > > > It would be better if Shri Vinay Ji ignore the musings between Sri VR.Krishna & Shri Rohini Ranjan. They are old buddies. Truthfully, some times I fail to understand them. But, Krishna Ji's predictions are at times very accurate with the use " physical astronomy " " > > > |||||||||||| ||||||||| ||||||||| || > > > > > > Yes Krishnan ji and I go back a while! Although he is a few years younger I call him 'Dada' because of the scenario in which we met in silicon-reality! That aside, I may seem to be a bit callous in my post through not giving the entire nine yards of the 'background' and assuming that the readers already know or will figure out from earlier verbiage.. Partly, this is to avoid further lengthening my already long-winded replies. The ability to type fast can sometimes be a burden! Particularly on the readers! Like jyotish, 'typing' came into my life almost serendipitously, as if by destiny and both became very crucial in life, mundane and otherwise. But there I go again ...:-) > > > > > > RR > > > > > > , " sureshbabuag " <sureshbabuag@ ....> wrote: > > > > > > > > Namasthe, > > > > > > > > I have been trying to distance myself from these fracases as much as possible. It is not uncommon that some heat is generated during a hot discussion. However, being well-educated persons and intelligent than most common people, we have a responsibility for being civil particularly in a public forum. Unfortunately, even private mails are even made a matter of discussion that every one shall agree, is not appropriate. Further, it is also not very good to jump into conclusions at what others have expressed and try to assert oneself. Some persons will be good at expressing themselves than others and yet some will be good at English than others. What is most important is the intention and essence of what is said. This forum is intended to help others in resolving their problems (that is what I think it is) and not to create a state of confusion and distraught. Any common persons who wants to seek help and guidance here, will be thinking " if these are > > > people are fighting with each other and are confused, how can they guide me?, is astrology so good to be depended upon? " . Is this the impression we want to project?. > > > > > > > > As far as choice of " Ayanamsa " and Suryasidhanta is concerned let me try to clarify certain points. From time of Vedas, Astrology has never been an independent branch of study. It was part and parcel of study of Vedas, Smrithis, Upanishads etc. This means the knowledge of planets / astrology was backed by the knowledge of Vedas.. It was only a small part of the wholesome knowledge. But since the last 1000 years or so, Astrology was delineated as an independent branch and separated from the rest of the traditional knowledge. Though it gained much popularity, much of the true knowledge was lost or ignored in due course of time. In recent times due to economic upsurge, many books also began to appear on astrology, which any one can buy and learn. One can imagine the confusions it has created even by the posts on this very forum. > > > > > > > > Since Sri Vinay Jha has become the focal point in these discussions, I cannot but express his name though reluctantly. As far as I understand about his presentation of Suryasidhanta, there is nothing wrong in it and he is not entirely wrong in saying that physical astronomy is different from the planets as deities. Perhaps the problem is the way he express it and passionately too. Too passionate to the liking of others. We shall understand this better if we remember the controversy of actual moment of Sun rise. Some acharyas claim that Sun rise is when the " Bimba " is just above the horizon, some claim it when the half of soorya bimba is visible and some claim it is when the poorna bimba is seen above the horizon. Similar controversy exists about the lagna also. Some people say the time of birth is when the head is seen out side, yet some others say it is when the cries out and some others claim it is when the whole body comes out (prishtodaya? ). So > > > also the position of other planets will also have similar difference of opinion. > > > > > > > > Similarly, as Shri Rohini ji has pointed out every mass has a ring of energy around it, which we have learned in school doing experiment with magnets and iron powder. This can be called aura or chaya etc. this means the planets like any mass of body do have an aura of energy ring outside its physical form. This is not a new finding. Physical astronomy as Shri Vinay Ji calls it relies on the position of the physical mass of the body (planet), while considering the area of magnetic force of influence is also not wrong as we are try to equate the physical existence and its influence. The lagna chart or rasi chakra as we call it is sthira chakra, the orientation of planets as we see it from earth. In reality, the alignment of planets are a little different in outer space. All these various methods of computations and ayanamsa are an effort to synchronize the sthira chakra with the alignment of planets in the outer space. Within a small percentage of > > > difference depending on the size of planets vs its distance from earth and sun, no one can claim absolute accuracy over the other. Since we are talking about the orbit of magnetic spectrum which by itself is very difficult to compute, their influence over effects is also equally difficult to fathom. The technical term used by astronomers whether modern or traditional such as geocentric, heliocentric or merucentric all refer to the alignment of the sthira with the real positions of planets in the outer space which is also termed chara chakra. As the centers shift from one school of thought to another, the interpretations may also need to be changed. This can be seen the difference in various systems like the common (varaha/parasara/ jaimini) Vs kp system Vs Tajik system. The surya chara that defines the day/month.year is also a matter of controversy due to the actual date In the preset calendar terms of 365.25…. days and 360days (360 > spokes of > > chakra). > > > > > > > > Pure astronomers may explain the above in a different and more complex language.. > > > > > > > > Our ancient sages have held that we, our surrounding etc are only a smaller replica of the whole universe or what we call as milky way. This complicates the matter further. Darshanopanishad provides us an insight on this view. > > > > > > > > " pi~Ngalaayaa iDaayaaM tu vaayoH saMkramaNaM tu yat > > > > taduttaraayaNaM proktaM mune vedaantavedibhiH " > > > > > > > > Uttarayana Sankramana occures due to the prana sanchara from Pingala nadi to Eda Nadi. > > > > > > > > iDayaaH pi~NgalaayaaM tu praaNasaMkramaNaM mune > > > > dakshiNaayanamityuk taM pi~NgaLaayaamiti shruti > > > > > > > > Dakshinayana Sankramana occures due the prana sancharana from Eda Nadi to the Pingala Nadi. > > > > > > > > iDaapi~NgaLayoH saMdhiM yadaa praaNaH samaagataH > > > > amaavaasyaa tadaa proktaa dehe dehabhritaaM vara > > > > > > > > Amavaya occures during the union of prana sanchara in Eda Nadi and the Pingala Nadi > > > > > > > > muulaadhaaraM yadaa praaNaH praviShTaH paNDitottama > > > > tadaadyaM viShuvaM proktaM taapasaistaapasotta ma > > > > praaNasaMGYo munishreShTa muurdhaanaM praavishadyadaa > > > > tadantyaM viShuvaM proktaM taapasaistattvachin takaiH > > > > > > > > Vishu is the point when the prana situates in the Mooladhara and Moordhani > > > > > > > > niH shvaasocChvaasanaM sarva maasaanaaM saMkramo bhavet > > > > Months occures due to the breathing- inhaling & exhaling process. > > > > > > > > iDayaa kUNDaliisthaanaM yadaa praaNaH samagataH > > > > somagrahaNamityukta M tada tatvavidaaM vara > > > > > > > > Chandra grihana occures when prana in the Eda Nadi reaches the Kundali Sthana. > > > > > > > > yadaa pi~NgaLayaa praaNaH kuNdaLiisthaanamaag ataH > > > > tad tad bhavet suuryagrahaNaM munipu~Ngava. . > > > > > > > > Surya Grihana occcures when the Prana in the pingala nadi reaches the kundali sthana. > > > > > > > > From the above one can imagine the depth of this science. What all has to remember is as soon as we assign a number to a planet like longitudes, it ceases to be mystic in nature. Hence, there is absolutely no point is saying that one method is human and the other is divine. It just becomes a way of expression and the learned members need not be agitated over the use of such expressions. > > > > > > > > Till a few years back traditional astrologers were dead against computer generated horoscopes, but has started to accept them. I was playing with computers when most of the members probably barely knew about its existence during the early dos3.1 era I created an astrology software with almost 2.5 lack line of code in c language in early 90's. I have now created much advanced software with many features suitable for researching and still adding them. While I am thankful to Shri Vinay ji for providing a software on suryasidhanta, I sincerely hope that he abstain from jumping into arguments for every posts even if it doesn't relate to him or for that matter any one. It would be better if Shri Vinay Ji ignore the musings between Sri VR.Krishna & Shri Rohini Ranjan. They are old buddies. Truthfully, some times I fail to understand them. But, Krishna Ji's predictions are at times very accurate with the use " physical astronomy " like every one else and that > > is > > > what counts as far as a common person is concerned.. Rohini Ji has a more practical approach to life with his radical thinking.. And Shri Prashant Kumar also is well experienced in astrology. > > > > > > > > I have been doing research on these subjects now for around 30 years and have never ceased to be surprised at the amount of information that is still lying buried in our scriptures. Today I was casually reading Maha Narayanopashid and came across a verse used in " Mrithika Pooja " , though as a Brahmin, we have used it several times, I was amused when its real meaning dawned on me. > > > > > > > > " ashvakraante rathakraante viShNukraante vasundharaa > > > > shirasaa dhaarayiShyaami rakshasva maaM pade pade.. " > > > > > > > > The learned members can possibly understand its significance and I leave it to the others to put up some effort. > > > > > > > > This science is not going to end up with Surya Sindhanta or its efficacy nor with Shri Vinay Ji or Hari or Sunil or whatever name. Most of the seniors on this forum are around 50 (I am actually slightly elder than Shri Prashant Kumar) and with whatever life is left let us try to gain more knowledge and share it to help others. frankly speaking I dont care as to when this world is going to end or whether it crosses the 6777whatever population. what I care is about this life, how we live it and help others to find a little relief in their suffering. If we consider the word " akalpayath " , all this is going to be repeated in the next kalpa or yuga, but can't we make this space a more peaceful and useful one?, rest assured we may meet again. > > > > > > > > I must thank all the elders including Shri Prasant Kumar as moderator for trying their best to maintain a level of diplomacy. I beg your pardon if I have sounded a little harsh or out of context. I was pained by post of Shri Prashant Kumar about liars (I can imagine the pain he is going through) and to see again a burst of posts that are just repeats of earlier one which doesn't enhance the image of this esteemed forum. > > > > > > > > " satyam bhruuyat priyam bhruuyat " > > > > " na bhruuyat satyaapriyam " > > > > > > > > One should tell the truth and one should tell what others like, but never tell the truth in a way that others will dislike. In short, use diplomacy. > > > > > > > > A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 24, 2009 Report Share Posted May 24, 2009 Very impressive indeed ...! , Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16 wrote: > > RR Ji, > > You see only the immediate response of Dymock. If my method is wrong, nothing will happen. But there is another scenario which you do not consider : forgetful of what will happen when my results will prove to be true and attract attention towards my " unscientific " method. > > Please send a Vetaala of Vikramaaditya or Chiraaga of Alaadina who will work 500 hours a day for me. Why you think I am doing nothing ? Here is a list of my projests : > > (1) running 7 schools, colleges (all Sanskrit), and managing real fights rather than verval duels moderators are here expected to manage. > > (2) publishing 7 panchangas > > (3) contributing 38 pages in astrological magazine > > (4) managing a close forum, many websites (some closed ones) > > (5) updating over two dozen softwares > > (6) answering ALL messages to or about me in half a dozen fora > > (7) translating hitherto untranslated Jyotisha texts (Bhaskar's Vaasanaabhaashya about Siddhanta Shiromani, Kamlakara Bhatta's Siddhaanta-tattva-viveka) > > (8) commentary on Suryasiddhanta involving comparative study with all ancient and modern theories of astronomy > > (9) making and updating softwares about other ancient and modern siddhantas for my comparative study of all ancient and modern theories of astronomy > > (10) procuring and collating all available manuscripts and published versions of BPHS for bring out a critical edition of the original text > > (11) collection of astrological references in entire ancient literature of India (esp Vedic-Puranic); the most voluminous of them MBh has already been finished. > > (12) besides all these " possible " tasks , I have one " impossible " task forced upon me (which I never accepted) : to prove my correctness to those who will not install my software (for whatever fault in my knowledge or character) and never read case studies sent by me. My future credentials will be zero for those who do not value my past credentials. > > > Sincerely, > > -VJ > ============ ========= > > > ________________________________ > Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan > > Sunday, May 24, 2009 4:48:09 PM > Re: Let us turn a fresh page > > > > > > , Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ ...> wrote: > <SNIP>... You do not know that Suryasiddhanta will receive 100 times more abuses on a foreign astrological site than on Indian one. Testing needs impartiality. .. > <SNIP> > > Dear Vinay Jha Jee, have no fear! Dymock does not ask for you astrological reasoning so SS is safe! He just gives the birth data, a certain date when the event took place and a few possibilities one of which you pick based on whatever and any astro-logic. > > You would not even have to breathe the word SuryaSiddhanta or even JYOTISH! > > And he publishes the responses of only those who are successful. > > Please give it a try without fear... > > RR > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 24, 2009 Report Share Posted May 24, 2009 How come no one told me ahead of time that this was going to be my week for being Jha ji's target of affectionate attention! RR , Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16 wrote: > > To All, > > I am requesting for two days to allow me just four " quiet " days to prepare case studies and forecasts, but RR Ji has decided to ignore my requests. Now, I am forced to make statements which I never wanted to. Here are my replies to his recent mail : > ---------------- > (1) > <<< " You ask all of us to test your software first and then decide and many > of us did and got nowhere due to the *virus* on our computer or other > reasons! " >>> > > I have no plan to keep on updating for all versions and all systems in the world for ever, because it is just impossible. 2086 persons downloaded Kundalee since 1-1-2009, and nearly 20 complained of installation problems. Such complaints have decreased after recent update on 6-6-2009. > > He says " You ask all of us to test your software first and then decide and many > of us did and got nowhere " . What about those who installed Kundalee? Some of them are reporting me privately, because they do not want to be abused in fora by discussing Kundalee. > ---------------- > (2) > <<< " Right now as I see it, even if your claimed product is superior, we have not seen any evidence of that. " >>> > > There are persons who regard following as sufficient evidences : > (1) Verification of Vinay Jha's Rain Forecast by NASA ; (2) Call by Royal Met. Society for Paper ; (3) Acceptance of Vinay Jha's Paper by CAOS, IISc, Bangalore ; (4) Consensus about Suryasiddhanta to be the Basis for National Panchangas ; > (5) University's Decision following High Court order for probe > (6) Various Govt and other institutions publishing panchangas from my software > > These are not evidences as you see it , because these institutions are outside the " we " you are using for yourself. > ---------------- > <<< " If your software and SS is a better alternative, you should be able to score high on Dymock's site, would that not make sense? " >>> > > If institutions having verified my work are nothing for you, may I ask who is this Dymock and what is the authenticity of his data? And how his data will change the world ? I am not a messiah and changing the world is not my mission. I have already sent you the long list of my workload. If I ever get time, I may try to put case studies at Dymock. All my time is being wasted over useless correspondences which will decide nothing. RR Ji had already expressed his wish earlier that I must leave all fora and take care of moksha. > > -VJ > ===================== === > > > ________________________________ > Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan > > Sunday, May 24, 2009 4:10:33 PM > Re: Let us turn a fresh page > > > > > > Dear Vinay Jha Jee, > > You ask all of us to test your software first and then decide and many of us did and got nowhere due to the *virus* on our computer or other reasons! > > Right now as I see it, even if your claimed product is superior, we have not seen any evidence of that. > > If your software and SS is a better alternative, you should be able to score high on Dymock's site, would that not make sense? > > Once you have made a few 'hits' there we can discuss charts and real astrology as you call it! > > Until then I am just observing you with mild curiosity, at best! > > Sigh!! > > RR > > , Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ ...> wrote: > > > > RR Ji, > > > > It is second time you gave me this link. You do not know that Suryasiddhanta will receive 100 times more abuses on a foreign astrological site than on Indian one. Testing needs impartiality. > > > > If you have no time to discuss charts with me, why do you prompt me to go to others, who are not better than you ? > > > > > > The world is too big, and I am in no need to go at every door to convince everyone about Suryasiddhanta. It is just the opposite. Suryasiddhantais given to those who perform tapasyaa and reform themselves. I broke this rule just because I wanted to see how much abuses I get. But even after tolerating so much abuses, I am unable to convince persons like you that I am fully convinced of my righteousness and that is why I am tolerating so much humiliation. 13 case studies are lying at my site, and 200 case studies are published in my Hindi book (being enlarged for second edition). Has anyone in these forums ever tried to prove me wrong astrologically ? I receive private messages that software works wonders, but they fear sending such messages in public forums, because they do not want to be abused. > > > > -VJ > > ============ ======== ==== > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan@ ...> > > > > Sunday, May 24, 2009 3:36:52 PM > > Re: Let us turn a fresh page > > > > > > > > > > > > In fact Vinay jee, please allow me to open up and reiterate again -- an opportunity for you to 'demonstrate' if that is where you are going: > > > > http://members. ozemail.com. au/~dymock/ index.html > > > > Please <click> and the rest would follow > > > > RR > > > > , Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > RR Ji, > > > > > > <<<< " What is this 'real astrology'? And why do you think the > > > " other " one (there has got to be one in this realm of duality, I > > > suppose?) is not! " >>>> > > > > > > Real astrology is chart analysis and related issues.. The " other " one is every bit of non-astrological musings in astrological forums. > > > > > > I hope I am not offending. > > > > > > -VJ > > > > > > ============ ========= ===== > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan@ ...> > > > > > > Sunday, May 24, 2009 1:37:37 PM > > > Let us turn a fresh page > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Vinay Jee, > > > > > > As to your statement, " RR Ji is also under an oath never to dicsuss real astrology with me. " > > > > > > I may have received the papers but I have not placed my signature on those ;-) > > > > > > I hope that does not disturb your slumber! > > > > > > Pray tell: What is this 'real astrology'? And why do you think the " other " one (there has got to be one in this realm of duality, I suppose?) is not! > > > > > > :-) <still smiling as you can see!> > > > > > > RR > > > > > > , Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > > > Namastay Suresh ji, > > > > > > > > RR Ji has cited a passage about me from your beautiful posting, which may have finer nuances for him.. RR Ji is master of language, making multilayered meanings in a single statements. Hence, I must clarify two points : > > > > > > > > <<<< " It would be better if Shri Vinay Ji ignore the musings between Sri > > > > VR.Krishna & Shri Rohini Ranjan. They are old buddies. Truthfully, > > > > some times I fail to understand them. But, Krishna Ji's predictions are > > > > at times very accurate with the use " physical astronomy " >>>> > > > > > > > > As I gather from previous posts, VR Krishn Ji is nearly equal to me in age and Shri Rohini Ranjan Ji is senior by a few years, but it does not mean I belong to a younger generation having no right to discuss topics which are supposedly reserved for " old buddies " . I have no desire to join the league of " senior " members here because joining a forum lately is taken as a token of junior status. Let me remain a junior. Persons one generation junior to me have used foul language for me, and persons equal to me are old buddies in my comparison. > > > > > > > > GB Prashant Ji said that Raman Ji's and Gayatri ji's predictions were very good, hence the method used by them (physical astronomy) is a proven one. RR Ji is repeating the statement from you which carries same meaning : " Krishna Ji's predictions are > > > > at times very accurate with the use physical astronomy " . > > > > > > > > Mr Arun Bansal of Leo Gold and Future Point carried out a statistical count of good and bad forecasts, and concluded in his editorial that 70% of predictions are good (all made along physical astronomy). I do not contend his figure. What I want to say is that a person with good Jyotishi-yogas in his/her own chart will be on the side of 70% and will almost always make good predictions, and another person using same software but having no good yogas in his/her own chart may fall on the side of remaining 30%. > > > > > > > > Hence, there must be some OBJECTIVE method of deciding the issue. It is wrong to say that so and so persons used physical astronomy and therefore it is the only correct method and other methods must be suppressed. This stans presupposes that all those astrologers of past and present who did not and do not use pgysical astronomy were making false predictions all the time, and everyone in India was a fool to believe in their unscientific method and wrong predictions for thousands of years ! > > > > > > > > Rhetoric will never solve this problem. There are only methods to solve this issue. One method is impartiam comparison of both methods. Another way is to abuse me away as a handful of youngstwers are doing, or to suppress my view without testing as the unreliable views of a newbie as one " old buddy " is trying to do. RR Ji is also under an oath never to dicsuss real astrology with me. > > > > > > > > I know the case studies I am preparing now will be ignored by those persons who have already made up their minds. But it will not stop my work. After posting my case studies, I will wait for some time, and will then leave all those forums where impartial comparison of both methods will be deleiberately neglected. At present, I have some hope that some persons may be interested in impartial reviews. > > > > > > > > -Vinay Jha > > > > > > > > ============ ========= === == > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > > Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan@ ...> > > > > > > > > Sunday, May 24, 2009 7:36:13 AM > > > > Re: Ayanamsha , Vedic Astrology! 23/5 & Liars > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namastay Suresh ji, > > > > > > > > What a beautiful sharing! Thank you very much for taking the time and donating your energy to this issue/matter that keeps coming back like a bumble bee hovering over someone who is trying to paint their side of fence so that it looks pretty {not pretti-er because I do not know how the fence of 'reality' looks from the other side!} :-) > > > > > > > > |||||||||||| ||||||||| ||||||||| || > > > > It would be better if Shri Vinay Ji ignore the musings between Sri VR.Krishna & Shri Rohini Ranjan. They are old buddies. Truthfully, some times I fail to understand them. But, Krishna Ji's predictions are at times very accurate with the use " physical astronomy " " > > > > |||||||||||| ||||||||| ||||||||| || > > > > > > > > Yes Krishnan ji and I go back a while! Although he is a few years younger I call him 'Dada' because of the scenario in which we met in silicon-reality! That aside, I may seem to be a bit callous in my post through not giving the entire nine yards of the 'background' and assuming that the readers already know or will figure out from earlier verbiage.. Partly, this is to avoid further lengthening my already long-winded replies. The ability to type fast can sometimes be a burden! Particularly on the readers! Like jyotish, 'typing' came into my life almost serendipitously, as if by destiny and both became very crucial in life, mundane and otherwise. But there I go again ...:-) > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > , " sureshbabuag " <sureshbabuag@ ....> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Namasthe, > > > > > > > > > > I have been trying to distance myself from these fracases as much as possible. It is not uncommon that some heat is generated during a hot discussion. However, being well-educated persons and intelligent than most common people, we have a responsibility for being civil particularly in a public forum. Unfortunately, even private mails are even made a matter of discussion that every one shall agree, is not appropriate. Further, it is also not very good to jump into conclusions at what others have expressed and try to assert oneself. Some persons will be good at expressing themselves than others and yet some will be good at English than others. What is most important is the intention and essence of what is said. This forum is intended to help others in resolving their problems (that is what I think it is) and not to create a state of confusion and distraught. Any common persons who wants to seek help and guidance here, will be thinking " if these are > > > > people are fighting with each other and are confused, how can they guide me?, is astrology so good to be depended upon? " . Is this the impression we want to project?. > > > > > > > > > > As far as choice of " Ayanamsa " and Suryasidhanta is concerned let me try to clarify certain points. From time of Vedas, Astrology has never been an independent branch of study. It was part and parcel of study of Vedas, Smrithis, Upanishads etc. This means the knowledge of planets / astrology was backed by the knowledge of Vedas.. It was only a small part of the wholesome knowledge. But since the last 1000 years or so, Astrology was delineated as an independent branch and separated from the rest of the traditional knowledge. Though it gained much popularity, much of the true knowledge was lost or ignored in due course of time. In recent times due to economic upsurge, many books also began to appear on astrology, which any one can buy and learn. One can imagine the confusions it has created even by the posts on this very forum. > > > > > > > > > > Since Sri Vinay Jha has become the focal point in these discussions, I cannot but express his name though reluctantly. As far as I understand about his presentation of Suryasidhanta, there is nothing wrong in it and he is not entirely wrong in saying that physical astronomy is different from the planets as deities. Perhaps the problem is the way he express it and passionately too. Too passionate to the liking of others. We shall understand this better if we remember the controversy of actual moment of Sun rise. Some acharyas claim that Sun rise is when the " Bimba " is just above the horizon, some claim it when the half of soorya bimba is visible and some claim it is when the poorna bimba is seen above the horizon. Similar controversy exists about the lagna also. Some people say the time of birth is when the head is seen out side, yet some others say it is when the cries out and some others claim it is when the whole body comes out (prishtodaya? ). > So > > > > also the position of other planets will also have similar difference of opinion. > > > > > > > > > > Similarly, as Shri Rohini ji has pointed out every mass has a ring of energy around it, which we have learned in school doing experiment with magnets and iron powder. This can be called aura or chaya etc. this means the planets like any mass of body do have an aura of energy ring outside its physical form. This is not a new finding. Physical astronomy as Shri Vinay Ji calls it relies on the position of the physical mass of the body (planet), while considering the area of magnetic force of influence is also not wrong as we are try to equate the physical existence and its influence. The lagna chart or rasi chakra as we call it is sthira chakra, the orientation of planets as we see it from earth. In reality, the alignment of planets are a little different in outer space. All these various methods of computations and ayanamsa are an effort to synchronize the sthira chakra with the alignment of planets in the outer space. Within a small percentage of > > > > difference depending on the size of planets vs its distance from earth and sun, no one can claim absolute accuracy over the other. Since we are talking about the orbit of magnetic spectrum which by itself is very difficult to compute, their influence over effects is also equally difficult to fathom. The technical term used by astronomers whether modern or traditional such as geocentric, heliocentric or merucentric all refer to the alignment of the sthira with the real positions of planets in the outer space which is also termed chara chakra. As the centers shift from one school of thought to another, the interpretations may also need to be changed. This can be seen the difference in various systems like the common (varaha/parasara/ jaimini) Vs kp system Vs Tajik system. The surya chara that defines the day/month.year is also a matter of controversy due to the actual date In the preset calendar terms of 365.25ÃÆ'¢â‚¬Â¦. days > and 360days (360 > > spokes of > > > chakra). > > > > > > > > > > Pure astronomers may explain the above in a different and more complex language.. > > > > > > > > > > Our ancient sages have held that we, our surrounding etc are only a smaller replica of the whole universe or what we call as milky way. This complicates the matter further. Darshanopanishad provides us an insight on this view. > > > > > > > > > > " pi~Ngalaayaa iDaayaaM tu vaayoH saMkramaNaM tu yat > > > > > taduttaraayaNaM proktaM mune vedaantavedibhiH " > > > > > > > > > > Uttarayana Sankramana occures due to the prana sanchara from Pingala nadi to Eda Nadi. > > > > > > > > > > iDayaaH pi~NgalaayaaM tu praaNasaMkramaNaM mune > > > > > dakshiNaayanamityuk taM pi~NgaLaayaamiti shruti > > > > > > > > > > Dakshinayana Sankramana occures due the prana sancharana from Eda Nadi to the Pingala Nadi. > > > > > > > > > > iDaapi~NgaLayoH saMdhiM yadaa praaNaH samaagataH > > > > > amaavaasyaa tadaa proktaa dehe dehabhritaaM vara > > > > > > > > > > Amavaya occures during the union of prana sanchara in Eda Nadi and the Pingala Nadi > > > > > > > > > > muulaadhaaraM yadaa praaNaH praviShTaH paNDitottama > > > > > tadaadyaM viShuvaM proktaM taapasaistaapasotta ma > > > > > praaNasaMGYo munishreShTa muurdhaanaM praavishadyadaa > > > > > tadantyaM viShuvaM proktaM taapasaistattvachin takaiH > > > > > > > > > > Vishu is the point when the prana situates in the Mooladhara and Moordhani > > > > > > > > > > niH shvaasocChvaasanaM sarva maasaanaaM saMkramo bhavet > > > > > Months occures due to the breathing- inhaling & exhaling process. > > > > > > > > > > iDayaa kUNDaliisthaanaM yadaa praaNaH samagataH > > > > > somagrahaNamityukta M tada tatvavidaaM vara > > > > > > > > > > Chandra grihana occures when prana in the Eda Nadi reaches the Kundali Sthana. > > > > > > > > > > yadaa pi~NgaLayaa praaNaH kuNdaLiisthaanamaag ataH > > > > > tad tad bhavet suuryagrahaNaM munipu~Ngava. . > > > > > > > > > > Surya Grihana occcures when the Prana in the pingala nadi reaches the kundali sthana. > > > > > > > > > > From the above one can imagine the depth of this science. What all has to remember is as soon as we assign a number to a planet like longitudes, it ceases to be mystic in nature. Hence, there is absolutely no point is saying that one method is human and the other is divine. It just becomes a way of expression and the learned members need not be agitated over the use of such expressions. > > > > > > > > > > Till a few years back traditional astrologers were dead against computer generated horoscopes, but has started to accept them. I was playing with computers when most of the members probably barely knew about its existence during the early dos3.1 era I created an astrology software with almost 2.5 lack line of code in c language in early 90's. I have now created much advanced software with many features suitable for researching and still adding them. While I am thankful to Shri Vinay ji for providing a software on suryasidhanta, I sincerely hope that he abstain from jumping into arguments for every posts even if it doesn't relate to him or for that matter any one. It would be better if Shri Vinay Ji ignore the musings between Sri VR.Krishna & Shri Rohini Ranjan. They are old buddies. Truthfully, some times I fail to understand them. But, Krishna Ji's predictions are at times very accurate with the use " physical astronomy " like every one else and > that > > > is > > > > what counts as far as a common person is concerned.. Rohini Ji has a more practical approach to life with his radical thinking.. And Shri Prashant Kumar also is well experienced in astrology. > > > > > > > > > > I have been doing research on these subjects now for around 30 years and have never ceased to be surprised at the amount of information that is still lying buried in our scriptures. Today I was casually reading Maha Narayanopashid and came across a verse used in " Mrithika Pooja " , though as a Brahmin, we have used it several times, I was amused when its real meaning dawned on me. > > > > > > > > > > " ashvakraante rathakraante viShNukraante vasundharaa > > > > > shirasaa dhaarayiShyaami rakshasva maaM pade pade.. " > > > > > > > > > > The learned members can possibly understand its significance and I leave it to the others to put up some effort. > > > > > > > > > > This science is not going to end up with Surya Sindhanta or its efficacy nor with Shri Vinay Ji or Hari or Sunil or whatever name. Most of the seniors on this forum are around 50 (I am actually slightly elder than Shri Prashant Kumar) and with whatever life is left let us try to gain more knowledge and share it to help others. frankly speaking I dont care as to when this world is going to end or whether it crosses the 6777whatever population. what I care is about this life, how we live it and help others to find a little relief in their suffering. If we consider the word " akalpayath " , all this is going to be repeated in the next kalpa or yuga, but can't we make this space a more peaceful and useful one?, rest assured we may meet again. > > > > > > > > > > I must thank all the elders including Shri Prasant Kumar as moderator for trying their best to maintain a level of diplomacy. I beg your pardon if I have sounded a little harsh or out of context. I was pained by post of Shri Prashant Kumar about liars (I can imagine the pain he is going through) and to see again a burst of posts that are just repeats of earlier one which doesn't enhance the image of this esteemed forum. > > > > > > > > > > " satyam bhruuyat priyam bhruuyat " > > > > > " na bhruuyat satyaapriyam " > > > > > > > > > > One should tell the truth and one should tell what others like, but never tell the truth in a way that others will dislike. In short, use diplomacy. > > > > > > > > > > A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 24, 2009 Report Share Posted May 24, 2009 RR Ji, I wrote that abominable message in exasperation, and I apologize for it. Please avoid long discussions with me for a few days. I did not mention all my assignments in short list of my jobs. -VJ ====================== ==== ________________________________ Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan Monday, May 25, 2009 12:35:06 AM Re: Let us turn a fresh page How come no one told me ahead of time that this was going to be my week for being Jha ji's target of affectionate attention! RR , Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ ...> wrote: > > To All, > > I am requesting for two days to allow me just four " quiet " days to prepare case studies and forecasts, but RR Ji has decided to ignore my requests. Now, I am forced to make statements which I never wanted to. Here are my replies to his recent mail : > ------------ ---- > (1) > <<< " You ask all of us to test your software first and then decide and many > of us did and got nowhere due to the *virus* on our computer or other > reasons! " >>> > > I have no plan to keep on updating for all versions and all systems in the world for ever, because it is just impossible. 2086 persons downloaded Kundalee since 1-1-2009, and nearly 20 complained of installation problems. Such complaints have decreased after recent update on 6-6-2009. > > He says " You ask all of us to test your software first and then decide and many > of us did and got nowhere " . What about those who installed Kundalee? Some of them are reporting me privately, because they do not want to be abused in fora by discussing Kundalee. > ------------ ---- > (2) > <<< " Right now as I see it, even if your claimed product is superior, we have not seen any evidence of that. " >>> > > There are persons who regard following as sufficient evidences : > (1) Verification of Vinay Jha's Rain Forecast by NASA ; (2) Call by Royal Met. Society for Paper ; (3) Acceptance of Vinay Jha's Paper by CAOS, IISc, Bangalore ; (4) Consensus about Suryasiddhanta to be the Basis for National Panchangas ; > (5) University's Decision following High Court order for probe > (6) Various Govt and other institutions publishing panchangas from my software > > These are not evidences as you see it , because these institutions are outside the " we " you are using for yourself. > ------------ ---- > <<< " If your software and SS is a better alternative, you should be able to score high on Dymock's site, would that not make sense? " >>> > > If institutions having verified my work are nothing for you, may I ask who is this Dymock and what is the authenticity of his data? And how his data will change the world ? I am not a messiah and changing the world is not my mission. I have already sent you the long list of my workload. If I ever get time, I may try to put case studies at Dymock. All my time is being wasted over useless correspondences which will decide nothing.. RR Ji had already expressed his wish earlier that I must leave all fora and take care of moksha. > > -VJ > ============ ========= === > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan@ ...> > > Sunday, May 24, 2009 4:10:33 PM > Re: Let us turn a fresh page > > > > > > Dear Vinay Jha Jee, > > You ask all of us to test your software first and then decide and many of us did and got nowhere due to the *virus* on our computer or other reasons! > > Right now as I see it, even if your claimed product is superior, we have not seen any evidence of that. > > If your software and SS is a better alternative, you should be able to score high on Dymock's site, would that not make sense? > > Once you have made a few 'hits' there we can discuss charts and real astrology as you call it! > > Until then I am just observing you with mild curiosity, at best! > > Sigh!! > > RR > > , Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ ...> wrote: > > > > RR Ji, > > > > It is second time you gave me this link. You do not know that Suryasiddhanta will receive 100 times more abuses on a foreign astrological site than on Indian one. Testing needs impartiality. > > > > If you have no time to discuss charts with me, why do you prompt me to go to others, who are not better than you ? > > > > > > The world is too big, and I am in no need to go at every door to convince everyone about Suryasiddhanta. It is just the opposite. Suryasiddhantais given to those who perform tapasyaa and reform themselves. I broke this rule just because I wanted to see how much abuses I get. But even after tolerating so much abuses, I am unable to convince persons like you that I am fully convinced of my righteousness and that is why I am tolerating so much humiliation. 13 case studies are lying at my site, and 200 case studies are published in my Hindi book (being enlarged for second edition). Has anyone in these forums ever tried to prove me wrong astrologically ? I receive private messages that software works wonders, but they fear sending such messages in public forums, because they do not want to be abused. > > > > -VJ > > ============ ======== ==== > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan@ ....> > > > > Sunday, May 24, 2009 3:36:52 PM > > Re: Let us turn a fresh page > > > > > > > > > > > > In fact Vinay jee, please allow me to open up and reiterate again -- an opportunity for you to 'demonstrate' if that is where you are going: > > > > http://members. ozemail.com. au/~dymock/ index.html > > > > Please <click> and the rest would follow > > > > RR > > > > , Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > RR Ji, > > > > > > <<<< " What is this 'real astrology'? And why do you think the > > > " other " one (there has got to be one in this realm of duality, I > > > suppose?) is not! " >>>> > > > > > > Real astrology is chart analysis and related issues.. The " other " one is every bit of non-astrological musings in astrological forums. > > > > > > I hope I am not offending. > > > > > > -VJ > > > > > > ============ ========= ===== > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan@ ...> > > > > > > Sunday, May 24, 2009 1:37:37 PM > > > Let us turn a fresh page > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Vinay Jee, > > > > > > As to your statement, " RR Ji is also under an oath never to dicsuss real astrology with me. " > > > > > > I may have received the papers but I have not placed my signature on those ;-) > > > > > > I hope that does not disturb your slumber! > > > > > > Pray tell: What is this 'real astrology'? And why do you think the " other " one (there has got to be one in this realm of duality, I suppose?) is not! > > > > > > :-) <still smiling as you can see!> > > > > > > RR > > > > > > , Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > > > Namastay Suresh ji, > > > > > > > > RR Ji has cited a passage about me from your beautiful posting, which may have finer nuances for him.. RR Ji is master of language, making multilayered meanings in a single statements. Hence, I must clarify two points : > > > > > > > > <<<< " It would be better if Shri Vinay Ji ignore the musings between Sri > > > > VR.Krishna & Shri Rohini Ranjan. They are old buddies. Truthfully, > > > > some times I fail to understand them. But, Krishna Ji's predictions are > > > > at times very accurate with the use " physical astronomy " >>>> > > > > > > > > As I gather from previous posts, VR Krishn Ji is nearly equal to me in age and Shri Rohini Ranjan Ji is senior by a few years, but it does not mean I belong to a younger generation having no right to discuss topics which are supposedly reserved for " old buddies " . I have no desire to join the league of " senior " members here because joining a forum lately is taken as a token of junior status. Let me remain a junior. Persons one generation junior to me have used foul language for me, and persons equal to me are old buddies in my comparison. > > > > > > > > GB Prashant Ji said that Raman Ji's and Gayatri ji's predictions were very good, hence the method used by them (physical astronomy) is a proven one. RR Ji is repeating the statement from you which carries same meaning : " Krishna Ji's predictions are > > > > at times very accurate with the use physical astronomy " . > > > > > > > > Mr Arun Bansal of Leo Gold and Future Point carried out a statistical count of good and bad forecasts, and concluded in his editorial that 70% of predictions are good (all made along physical astronomy). I do not contend his figure. What I want to say is that a person with good Jyotishi-yogas in his/her own chart will be on the side of 70% and will almost always make good predictions, and another person using same software but having no good yogas in his/her own chart may fall on the side of remaining 30%. > > > > > > > > Hence, there must be some OBJECTIVE method of deciding the issue. It is wrong to say that so and so persons used physical astronomy and therefore it is the only correct method and other methods must be suppressed. This stans presupposes that all those astrologers of past and present who did not and do not use pgysical astronomy were making false predictions all the time, and everyone in India was a fool to believe in their unscientific method and wrong predictions for thousands of years ! > > > > > > > > Rhetoric will never solve this problem. There are only methods to solve this issue. One method is impartiam comparison of both methods. Another way is to abuse me away as a handful of youngstwers are doing, or to suppress my view without testing as the unreliable views of a newbie as one " old buddy " is trying to do. RR Ji is also under an oath never to dicsuss real astrology with me. > > > > > > > > I know the case studies I am preparing now will be ignored by those persons who have already made up their minds. But it will not stop my work. After posting my case studies, I will wait for some time, and will then leave all those forums where impartial comparison of both methods will be deleiberately neglected. At present, I have some hope that some persons may be interested in impartial reviews. > > > > > > > > -Vinay Jha > > > > > > > > ============ ========= === == > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > > Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan@ ...> > > > > > > > > Sunday, May 24, 2009 7:36:13 AM > > > > Re: Ayanamsha , Vedic Astrology! 23/5 & Liars > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namastay Suresh ji, > > > > > > > > What a beautiful sharing! Thank you very much for taking the time and donating your energy to this issue/matter that keeps coming back like a bumble bee hovering over someone who is trying to paint their side of fence so that it looks pretty {not pretti-er because I do not know how the fence of 'reality' looks from the other side!} :-) > > > > > > > > |||||||||||| ||||||||| ||||||||| || > > > > It would be better if Shri Vinay Ji ignore the musings between Sri VR.Krishna & Shri Rohini Ranjan. They are old buddies. Truthfully, some times I fail to understand them. But, Krishna Ji's predictions are at times very accurate with the use " physical astronomy " " > > > > |||||||||||| ||||||||| ||||||||| || > > > > > > > > Yes Krishnan ji and I go back a while! Although he is a few years younger I call him 'Dada' because of the scenario in which we met in silicon-reality! That aside, I may seem to be a bit callous in my post through not giving the entire nine yards of the 'background' and assuming that the readers already know or will figure out from earlier verbiage.. Partly, this is to avoid further lengthening my already long-winded replies. The ability to type fast can sometimes be a burden! Particularly on the readers! Like jyotish, 'typing' came into my life almost serendipitously, as if by destiny and both became very crucial in life, mundane and otherwise. But there I go again ...:-) > > > > > > > > RR > > > > > > > > , " sureshbabuag " <sureshbabuag@ ....> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Namasthe, > > > > > > > > > > I have been trying to distance myself from these fracases as much as possible. It is not uncommon that some heat is generated during a hot discussion. However, being well-educated persons and intelligent than most common people, we have a responsibility for being civil particularly in a public forum. Unfortunately, even private mails are even made a matter of discussion that every one shall agree, is not appropriate. Further, it is also not very good to jump into conclusions at what others have expressed and try to assert oneself. Some persons will be good at expressing themselves than others and yet some will be good at English than others. What is most important is the intention and essence of what is said. This forum is intended to help others in resolving their problems (that is what I think it is) and not to create a state of confusion and distraught. Any common persons who wants to seek help and guidance here, will be thinking " if these are > > > > people are fighting with each other and are confused, how can they guide me?, is astrology so good to be depended upon? " . Is this the impression we want to project?. > > > > > > > > > > As far as choice of " Ayanamsa " and Suryasidhanta is concerned let me try to clarify certain points. From time of Vedas, Astrology has never been an independent branch of study. It was part and parcel of study of Vedas, Smrithis, Upanishads etc. This means the knowledge of planets / astrology was backed by the knowledge of Vedas.. It was only a small part of the wholesome knowledge. But since the last 1000 years or so, Astrology was delineated as an independent branch and separated from the rest of the traditional knowledge. Though it gained much popularity, much of the true knowledge was lost or ignored in due course of time. In recent times due to economic upsurge, many books also began to appear on astrology, which any one can buy and learn. One can imagine the confusions it has created even by the posts on this very forum. > > > > > > > > > > Since Sri Vinay Jha has become the focal point in these discussions, I cannot but express his name though reluctantly. As far as I understand about his presentation of Suryasidhanta, there is nothing wrong in it and he is not entirely wrong in saying that physical astronomy is different from the planets as deities. Perhaps the problem is the way he express it and passionately too. Too passionate to the liking of others. We shall understand this better if we remember the controversy of actual moment of Sun rise. Some acharyas claim that Sun rise is when the " Bimba " is just above the horizon, some claim it when the half of soorya bimba is visible and some claim it is when the poorna bimba is seen above the horizon. Similar controversy exists about the lagna also. Some people say the time of birth is when the head is seen out side, yet some others say it is when the cries out and some others claim it is when the whole body comes out (prishtodaya? ). > So > > > > also the position of other planets will also have similar difference of opinion. > > > > > > > > > > Similarly, as Shri Rohini ji has pointed out every mass has a ring of energy around it, which we have learned in school doing experiment with magnets and iron powder. This can be called aura or chaya etc. this means the planets like any mass of body do have an aura of energy ring outside its physical form. This is not a new finding. Physical astronomy as Shri Vinay Ji calls it relies on the position of the physical mass of the body (planet), while considering the area of magnetic force of influence is also not wrong as we are try to equate the physical existence and its influence. The lagna chart or rasi chakra as we call it is sthira chakra, the orientation of planets as we see it from earth. In reality, the alignment of planets are a little different in outer space. All these various methods of computations and ayanamsa are an effort to synchronize the sthira chakra with the alignment of planets in the outer space. Within a small percentage of > > > > difference depending on the size of planets vs its distance from earth and sun, no one can claim absolute accuracy over the other. Since we are talking about the orbit of magnetic spectrum which by itself is very difficult to compute, their influence over effects is also equally difficult to fathom. The technical term used by astronomers whether modern or traditional such as geocentric, heliocentric or merucentric all refer to the alignment of the sthira with the real positions of planets in the outer space which is also termed chara chakra. As the centers shift from one school of thought to another, the interpretations may also need to be changed. This can be seen the difference in various systems like the common (varaha/parasara/ jaimini) Vs kp system Vs Tajik system. The surya chara that defines the day/month.year is also a matter of controversy due to the actual date In the preset calendar terms of 365.25ÃÆ'¢â‚¬Â¦. days > and 360days (360 > > spokes of > > > chakra). > > > > > > > > > > Pure astronomers may explain the above in a different and more complex language.. > > > > > > > > > > Our ancient sages have held that we, our surrounding etc are only a smaller replica of the whole universe or what we call as milky way. This complicates the matter further. Darshanopanishad provides us an insight on this view. > > > > > > > > > > " pi~Ngalaayaa iDaayaaM tu vaayoH saMkramaNaM tu yat > > > > > taduttaraayaNaM proktaM mune vedaantavedibhiH " > > > > > > > > > > Uttarayana Sankramana occures due to the prana sanchara from Pingala nadi to Eda Nadi. > > > > > > > > > > iDayaaH pi~NgalaayaaM tu praaNasaMkramaNaM mune > > > > > dakshiNaayanamityuk taM pi~NgaLaayaamiti shruti > > > > > > > > > > Dakshinayana Sankramana occures due the prana sancharana from Eda Nadi to the Pingala Nadi. > > > > > > > > > > iDaapi~NgaLayoH saMdhiM yadaa praaNaH samaagataH > > > > > amaavaasyaa tadaa proktaa dehe dehabhritaaM vara > > > > > > > > > > Amavaya occures during the union of prana sanchara in Eda Nadi and the Pingala Nadi > > > > > > > > > > muulaadhaaraM yadaa praaNaH praviShTaH paNDitottama > > > > > tadaadyaM viShuvaM proktaM taapasaistaapasotta ma > > > > > praaNasaMGYo munishreShTa muurdhaanaM praavishadyadaa > > > > > tadantyaM viShuvaM proktaM taapasaistattvachin takaiH > > > > > > > > > > Vishu is the point when the prana situates in the Mooladhara and Moordhani > > > > > > > > > > niH shvaasocChvaasanaM sarva maasaanaaM saMkramo bhavet > > > > > Months occures due to the breathing- inhaling & exhaling process. > > > > > > > > > > iDayaa kUNDaliisthaanaM yadaa praaNaH samagataH > > > > > somagrahaNamityukta M tada tatvavidaaM vara > > > > > > > > > > Chandra grihana occures when prana in the Eda Nadi reaches the Kundali Sthana. > > > > > > > > > > yadaa pi~NgaLayaa praaNaH kuNdaLiisthaanamaag ataH > > > > > tad tad bhavet suuryagrahaNaM munipu~Ngava. . > > > > > > > > > > Surya Grihana occcures when the Prana in the pingala nadi reaches the kundali sthana. > > > > > > > > > > From the above one can imagine the depth of this science. What all has to remember is as soon as we assign a number to a planet like longitudes, it ceases to be mystic in nature. Hence, there is absolutely no point is saying that one method is human and the other is divine. It just becomes a way of expression and the learned members need not be agitated over the use of such expressions. > > > > > > > > > > Till a few years back traditional astrologers were dead against computer generated horoscopes, but has started to accept them. I was playing with computers when most of the members probably barely knew about its existence during the early dos3.1 era I created an astrology software with almost 2.5 lack line of code in c language in early 90's. I have now created much advanced software with many features suitable for researching and still adding them. While I am thankful to Shri Vinay ji for providing a software on suryasidhanta, I sincerely hope that he abstain from jumping into arguments for every posts even if it doesn't relate to him or for that matter any one. It would be better if Shri Vinay Ji ignore the musings between Sri VR.Krishna & Shri Rohini Ranjan. They are old buddies. Truthfully, some times I fail to understand them. But, Krishna Ji's predictions are at times very accurate with the use " physical astronomy " like every one else and > that > > > is > > > > what counts as far as a common person is concerned.. Rohini Ji has a more practical approach to life with his radical thinking.. And Shri Prashant Kumar also is well experienced in astrology. > > > > > > > > > > I have been doing research on these subjects now for around 30 years and have never ceased to be surprised at the amount of information that is still lying buried in our scriptures. Today I was casually reading Maha Narayanopashid and came across a verse used in " Mrithika Pooja " , though as a Brahmin, we have used it several times, I was amused when its real meaning dawned on me. > > > > > > > > > > " ashvakraante rathakraante viShNukraante vasundharaa > > > > > shirasaa dhaarayiShyaami rakshasva maaM pade pade.. " > > > > > > > > > > The learned members can possibly understand its significance and I leave it to the others to put up some effort. > > > > > > > > > > This science is not going to end up with Surya Sindhanta or its efficacy nor with Shri Vinay Ji or Hari or Sunil or whatever name. Most of the seniors on this forum are around 50 (I am actually slightly elder than Shri Prashant Kumar) and with whatever life is left let us try to gain more knowledge and share it to help others. frankly speaking I dont care as to when this world is going to end or whether it crosses the 6777whatever population. what I care is about this life, how we live it and help others to find a little relief in their suffering. If we consider the word " akalpayath " , all this is going to be repeated in the next kalpa or yuga, but can't we make this space a more peaceful and useful one?, rest assured we may meet again. > > > > > > > > > > I must thank all the elders including Shri Prasant Kumar as moderator for trying their best to maintain a level of diplomacy. I beg your pardon if I have sounded a little harsh or out of context. I was pained by post of Shri Prashant Kumar about liars (I can imagine the pain he is going through) and to see again a burst of posts that are just repeats of earlier one which doesn't enhance the image of this esteemed forum. > > > > > > > > > > " satyam bhruuyat priyam bhruuyat " > > > > > " na bhruuyat satyaapriyam " > > > > > > > > > > One should tell the truth and one should tell what others like, but never tell the truth in a way that others will dislike. In short, use diplomacy. > > > > > > > > > > A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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