Here is my proposal...

May 24, 2009

Dear Kumar ji,

Vinay Jha Jee has shared a lot of his personal challenges with us at least in

this forum and his personal sense of having felt mistreated and marginalized and

attacked.

I like him and I have heard the same from some others too who felt attacked by

him.

On Internet, particularly in Jyotish fora, when someone comes along with a

different message, a different approach -- participants awaken! It then lies on

the shoulders of the *messenger* how to manage the message! All deliver, some do

it successfully, others fail. But all such must be given a fair opportunity!

As far as I am concerned, I shall continue to provide Vinay Jee fair but not

unconditional support! If he cannot deliver as he has been promising -- all

these case studies etc, we go back to ORIGINAL PROGRAMMING that we followed.

In the meantime, we shall be kind to him and treat him as any other human being

and a brother. Monks are human beings first!

RR

, Prashant Kumar G B <gbp_kumar

wrote:

>

> Vinay ji

>

> as usual u r getting carried away y a few lines and not seeing the ENTIRE

MESSAGE be it sri kirshna ji or one.,

>

> i have clearly said if we get to see ur method as clearly as we have seen the

ones I quoted it will be good and wer r all waiting for u to complete the case

studies we did not say we don't care what u say did we?

>

> see Gayitri devis predictions at least ty r fresh u can find them also in any

old magazine bazar also recently old

>

> and if u can lay ur hands on older Annual numbers and september special issue

of the Astrological magazine u will know what amount of work they have put

>

> and if u say one ca get 70% accuracy in physical astronomy that is a good

enough statement for astrology itself irrespective of which system u follow isnt

it?

>

> and if u say to get 100% u must use Kundali and Chowkamba BPHS this will also

be a tough thing as quite often it is destiny, karma balace sheet of theperson

tha t determines the how intution guides our KNOWLEDGE BASE

>

> we may get the right answr straight away or after the person has left and not

reachable and some bad times the person may not even come after a appointmet is

given

>

> every aspect has many sides and remember we r all NOT PUSHING ur or abusing u

>

> here seniority is more on the no of yrs u spend i a group not by how well we r

qualified as no one physically meet isnt it

>

> but RRji has been on the internet based astrlogy forums for decades me max

since 92 and forums I entered only indec 05 so ppl in the net or forums may see

me as a 4 yr old inforums not my 32 yrs of work behind me or my 23 yrs with a

guru either.

>

> all of them come in the replies we give and feedback we get here all r almost

at a nuteral platform a socialist one I must say.

>

> and hope u will clarify in VA and here and JG also that u came here and other

forums as well but at least JR has not treated u badly or abused u or pittied

uagainst someone in VA sunil nair is trying to appease u to get back to AIA

saying i was one who made u quarrel with them

>

> if we see even today we r arguing on the contents of our mails we have dealt

it in diploaatic way they have only abused u and everyone who dont fit ther

board. and I have no role in such things how they abuse u but surely did all i

can tosee u r comfortable and peaceful over here.

>

> we r demading a demostratable case study or two we have never questioned u, r

u an astrologer at all, do u know abcd of astrology that they r writing on u ,

me, akk etc

> r u a brahamachari etc they r abusing all sides of u me, AKK.

> INSTEAD OF EVEN ATTEMPTING TO STUDY anything did we not see ur death cases

here.

> and suggested we need a biographicial one why, just to know ur model better.

>

> Best wishes

>

> Prashant

>

> ________________________________

> Vinay Jha <vinayjhaa16

>

> Sunday, May 24, 2009 1:15:01 PM

> Re: Ayanamsha , Vedic Astrology! 23/5 & Liars

>

> Namastay Suresh ji,

>

> RR Ji has cited a passage about me from your beautiful posting, which may have

finer nuances for him. RR Ji is master of language, making multilayered meanings

in a single statements. Hence, I must clarify two points :

>

> <<<< " It would be better if Shri Vinay Ji ignore the musings between Sri

> VR.Krishna & Shri Rohini Ranjan. They are old buddies. Truthfully,

> some times I fail to understand them. But, Krishna Ji's predictions are

> at times very accurate with the use " physical astronomy " >>>>

>

> As I gather from previous posts, VR Krishn Ji is nearly equal to me in age

and Shri Rohini Ranjan Ji is senior by a few years, but it does not mean I

belong to a younger generation having no right to discuss topics which are

supposedly reserved for " old buddies " . I have no desire to join the league of

" senior " members here because joining a forum lately is taken as a token of

junior status. Let me remain a junior. Persons one generation junior to me have

used foul language for me, and persons equal to me are old buddies in my

comparison.

>

> GB Prashant Ji said that Raman Ji's and Gayatri ji's predictions were very

good, hence the method used by them (physical astronomy) is a proven one. RR Ji

is repeating the statement from you which carries same meaning : " Krishna Ji's

predictions are

> at times very accurate with the use physical astronomy " .

>

> Mr Arun Bansal of Leo Gold and Future Point carried out a statistical count of

good and bad forecasts, and concluded in his editorial that 70% of predictions

are good (all made along physical astronomy). I do not contend his figure. What

I want to say is that a person with good Jyotishi-yogas in his/her own chart

will be on the side of 70% and will almost always make good predictions, and

another person using same software but having no good yogas in his/her own chart

may fall on the side of remaining 30%.

>

> Hence, there must be some OBJECTIVE method of deciding the issue. It is

wrong to say that so and so persons used physical astronomy and therefore it is

the only correct method and other methods must be suppressed. This stans

presupposes that all those astrologers of past and present who did not and do

not use pgysical astronomy were making false predictions all the time, and

everyone in India was a fool to believe in their unscientific method and wrong

predictions for thousands of years !

>

> Rhetoric will never solve this problem. There are only methods to solve this

issue. One method is impartiam comparison of both methods. Another way is to

abuse me away as a handful of youngstwers are doing, or to suppress my view

without testing as the unreliable views of a newbie as one " old buddy " is trying

to do. RR Ji is also under an oath never to dicsuss real astrology with me.

>

> I know the case studies I am preparing now will be ignored by those persons

who have already made up their minds. But it will not stop my work. After

posting my case studies, I will wait for some time, and will then leave all

those forums where impartial comparison of both methods will be deleiberately

neglected. At present, I have some hope that some persons may be interested in

impartial reviews.

>

> -Vinay Jha

>

> ============ ========= === ==

>

> ____________ _________ _________ __

> Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan@ hotmail.com>

>

> Sunday, May 24, 2009 7:36:13 AM

> Re: Ayanamsha , Vedic Astrology! 23/5 & Liars

>

> Namastay Suresh ji,

>

> What a beautiful sharing! Thank you very much for taking the time and donating

your energy to this issue/matter that keeps coming back like a bumble bee

hovering over someone who is trying to paint their side of fence so that it

looks pretty {not pretti-er because I do not know how the fence of 'reality'

looks from the other side!} :-)

>

> |||||||||||| ||||||||| ||||||||| ||

> It would be better if Shri Vinay Ji ignore the musings between Sri VR.Krishna

& Shri Rohini Ranjan. They are old buddies. Truthfully, some times I fail to

understand them. But, Krishna Ji's predictions are at times very accurate with

the use " physical astronomy " "

> |||||||||||| ||||||||| ||||||||| ||

>

> Yes Krishnan ji and I go back a while! Although he is a few years younger I

call him 'Dada' because of the scenario in which we met in silicon-reality! That

aside, I may seem to be a bit callous in my post through not giving the entire

nine yards of the 'background' and assuming that the readers already know or

will figure out from earlier verbiage. Partly, this is to avoid further

lengthening my already long-winded replies. The ability to type fast can

sometimes be a burden! Particularly on the readers! Like jyotish, 'typing' came

into my life almost serendipitously, as if by destiny and both became very

crucial in life, mundane and otherwise. But there I go again ...:-)

>

> RR

>

> , " sureshbabuag " <sureshbabuag@ ...>

wrote:

> >

> > Namasthe,

> >

> > I have been trying to distance myself from these fracases as much as

possible. It is not uncommon that some heat is generated during a hot

discussion. However, being well-educated persons and intelligent than most

common people, we have a responsibility for being civil particularly in a public

forum. Unfortunately, even private mails are even made a matter of discussion

that every one shall agree, is not appropriate. Further, it is also not very

good to jump into conclusions at what others have expressed and try to assert

oneself. Some persons will be good at expressing themselves than others and yet

some will be good at English than others. What is most important is the

intention and essence of what is said. This forum is intended to help others in

resolving their problems (that is what I think it is) and not to create a state

of confusion and distraught. Any common persons who wants to seek help and

guidance here, will be thinking " if these are

> people are fighting with each other and are confused, how can they guide me?,

is astrology so good to be depended upon? " . Is this the impression we want to

project?.

> >

> > As far as choice of " Ayanamsa " and Suryasidhanta is concerned let me try to

clarify certain points. From time of Vedas, Astrology has never been an

independent branch of study. It was part and parcel of study of Vedas, Smrithis,

Upanishads etc. This means the knowledge of planets / astrology was backed by

the knowledge of Vedas. It was only a small part of the wholesome knowledge. But

since the last 1000 years or so, Astrology was delineated as an independent

branch and separated from the rest of the traditional knowledge. Though it

gained much popularity, much of the true knowledge was lost or ignored in due

course of time. In recent times due to economic upsurge, many books also began

to appear on astrology, which any one can buy and learn. One can imagine the

confusions it has created even by the posts on this very forum.

> >

> > Since Sri Vinay Jha has become the focal point in these discussions, I

cannot but express his name though reluctantly. As far as I understand about his

presentation of Suryasidhanta, there is nothing wrong in it and he is not

entirely wrong in saying that physical astronomy is different from the planets

as deities. Perhaps the problem is the way he express it and passionately too.

Too passionate to the liking of others. We shall understand this better if we

remember the controversy of actual moment of Sun rise. Some acharyas claim that

Sun rise is when the " Bimba " is just above the horizon, some claim it when the

half of soorya bimba is visible and some claim it is when the poorna bimba is

seen above the horizon. Similar controversy exists about the lagna also. Some

people say the time of birth is when the head is seen out side, yet some others

say it is when the cries out and some others claim it is when the whole body

comes out (prishtodaya? ). So

> also the position of other planets will also have similar difference of

opinion.

> >

> > Similarly, as Shri Rohini ji has pointed out every mass has a ring of energy

around it, which we have learned in school doing experiment with magnets and

iron powder. This can be called aura or chaya etc. this means the planets like

any mass of body do have an aura of energy ring outside its physical form. This

is not a new finding. Physical astronomy as Shri Vinay Ji calls it relies on the

position of the physical mass of the body (planet), while considering the area

of magnetic force of influence is also not wrong as we are try to equate the

physical existence and its influence. The lagna chart or rasi chakra as we call

it is sthira chakra, the orientation of planets as we see it from earth. In

reality, the alignment of planets are a little different in outer space. All

these various methods of computations and ayanamsa are an effort to synchronize

the sthira chakra with the alignment of planets in the outer space. Within a

small percentage of

> difference depending on the size of planets vs its distance from earth and

sun, no one can claim absolute accuracy over the other. Since we are talking

about the orbit of magnetic spectrum which by itself is very difficult to

compute, their influence over effects is also equally difficult to fathom. The

technical term used by astronomers whether modern or traditional such as

geocentric, heliocentric or merucentric all refer to the alignment of the sthira

with the real positions of planets in the outer space which is also termed chara

chakra. As the centers shift from one school of thought to another, the

interpretations may also need to be changed. This can be seen the difference in

various systems like the common (varaha/parasara/ jaimini) Vs kp system Vs Tajik

system. The surya chara that defines the day/month.year is also a matter of

controversy due to the actual date In the preset calendar terms of 365.25â€¦.

days and 360days (360 spokes of chakra).

> >

> > Pure astronomers may explain the above in a different and more complex

language.

> >

> > Our ancient sages have held that we, our surrounding etc are only a smaller

replica of the whole universe or what we call as milky way. This complicates the

matter further. Darshanopanishad provides us an insight on this view.

> >

> > " pi~Ngalaayaa iDaayaaM tu vaayoH saMkramaNaM tu yat

> > taduttaraayaNaM proktaM mune vedaantavedibhiH "

> >

> > Uttarayana Sankramana occures due to the prana sanchara from Pingala nadi to

Eda Nadi.

> >

> > iDayaaH pi~NgalaayaaM tu praaNasaMkramaNaM mune

> > dakshiNaayanamityuk taM pi~NgaLaayaamiti shruti

> >

> > Dakshinayana Sankramana occures due the prana sancharana from Eda Nadi to

the Pingala Nadi.

> >

> > iDaapi~NgaLayoH saMdhiM yadaa praaNaH samaagataH

> > amaavaasyaa tadaa proktaa dehe dehabhritaaM vara

> >

> > Amavaya occures during the union of prana sanchara in Eda Nadi and the

Pingala Nadi

> >

> > muulaadhaaraM yadaa praaNaH praviShTaH paNDitottama

> > tadaadyaM viShuvaM proktaM taapasaistaapasotta ma

> > praaNasaMGYo munishreShTa muurdhaanaM praavishadyadaa

> > tadantyaM viShuvaM proktaM taapasaistattvachin takaiH

> >

> > Vishu is the point when the prana situates in the Mooladhara and Moordhani

> >

> > niH shvaasocChvaasanaM sarva maasaanaaM saMkramo bhavet

> > Months occures due to the breathing- inhaling & exhaling process.

> >

> > iDayaa kUNDaliisthaanaM yadaa praaNaH samagataH

> > somagrahaNamityukta M tada tatvavidaaM vara

> >

> > Chandra grihana occures when prana in the Eda Nadi reaches the Kundali

Sthana.

> >

> > yadaa pi~NgaLayaa praaNaH kuNdaLiisthaanamaag ataH

> > tad tad bhavet suuryagrahaNaM munipu~Ngava. .

> >

> > Surya Grihana occcures when the Prana in the pingala nadi reaches the

kundali sthana.

> >

> > From the above one can imagine the depth of this science. What all has to

remember is as soon as we assign a number to a planet like longitudes, it ceases

to be mystic in nature. Hence, there is absolutely no point is saying that one

method is human and the other is divine. It just becomes a way of expression and

the learned members need not be agitated over the use of such expressions.

> >

> > Till a few years back traditional astrologers were dead against computer

generated horoscopes, but has started to accept them. I was playing with

computers when most of the members probably barely knew about its existence

during the early dos3.1 era I created an astrology software with almost 2.5 lack

line of code in c language in early 90's. I have now created much advanced

software with many features suitable for researching and still adding them.

While I am thankful to Shri Vinay ji for providing a software on suryasidhanta,

I sincerely hope that he abstain from jumping into arguments for every posts

even if it doesn't relate to him or for that matter any one. It would be better

if Shri Vinay Ji ignore the musings between Sri VR.Krishna & Shri Rohini Ranjan.

They are old buddies. Truthfully, some times I fail to understand them. But,

Krishna Ji's predictions are at times very accurate with the use " physical

astronomy " like every one else and that is

> what counts as far as a common person is concerned. Rohini Ji has a more

practical approach to life with his radical thinking. And Shri Prashant Kumar

also is well experienced in astrology.

> >

> > I have been doing research on these subjects now for around 30 years and

have never ceased to be surprised at the amount of information that is still

lying buried in our scriptures. Today I was casually reading Maha Narayanopashid

and came across a verse used in " Mrithika Pooja " , though as a Brahmin, we have

used it several times, I was amused when its real meaning dawned on me.

> >

> > " ashvakraante rathakraante viShNukraante vasundharaa

> > shirasaa dhaarayiShyaami rakshasva maaM pade pade.. "

> >

> > The learned members can possibly understand its significance and I leave it

to the others to put up some effort.

> >

> > This science is not going to end up with Surya Sindhanta or its efficacy nor

with Shri Vinay Ji or Hari or Sunil or whatever name. Most of the seniors on

this forum are around 50 (I am actually slightly elder than Shri Prashant Kumar)

and with whatever life is left let us try to gain more knowledge and share it to

help others. frankly speaking I dont care as to when this world is going to end

or whether it crosses the 6777whatever population. what I care is about this

life, how we live it and help others to find a little relief in their suffering.

If we consider the word " akalpayath " , all this is going to be repeated in the

next kalpa or yuga, but can't we make this space a more peaceful and useful

one?, rest assured we may meet again.

> >

> > I must thank all the elders including Shri Prasant Kumar as moderator for

trying their best to maintain a level of diplomacy. I beg your pardon if I have

sounded a little harsh or out of context. I was pained by post of Shri Prashant

Kumar about liars (I can imagine the pain he is going through) and to see again

a burst of posts that are just repeats of earlier one which doesn't enhance the

image of this esteemed forum.

> >

> > " satyam bhruuyat priyam bhruuyat "

> > " na bhruuyat satyaapriyam "

> >

> > One should tell the truth and one should tell what others like, but never

tell the truth in a way that others will dislike. In short, use diplomacy.

> >

> > A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy.

> >

>

May 24, 2009

To All,

It is good that RR Ji has opened his mind. If RR Ji feels some words from me

are wrong or offensive, I beg apology.

Now , as GB Prashant ji has assured me of an impartial analysis of case studies

sent by me, some persons in other fora have suddenly intensified abusive and

non-abusive campaigns against me, which RR ji knows well (because he has posted

his humourous musings in threads started for the sole purpose of abusing me,

although he regards such abuses not as real mistreatment but my 'personal sense

of having felt mistreated " ,and my non-abusive replies are equated at par with

abusive attacks on me by persons " who felt attacked by " me).

Even today RR Ji was informed that 13 case studies are already lying at my

website (more are being sent), yet he says : " If he cannot deliver as he has

been promising

-- all these case studies etc, we go back to ORIGINAL PROGRAMMING that

we followed. "

When did he use my programme, so that he needs to Go BACK to original

programming ? He never used my programme, he never discussed anything about case

studies either sent to him personally or posted at my website.

Now I want discussion about only mundane case studies, because seeing the

" impartiality " of some astrologers I am convinced that when case studies about

individuals will prove true, birthdata or something else will become doubtful.

One astologer of UP told me that even official data of rainfall are false. There

is no point in discussing anything with such persons. They will accept nothing,

discuss nothing, and will stick to their habits, come what may. I have no

intention to change them.Originally, it was never my intention to popularize

Suryasiddhanta.Suryasiddhanta prohibits its popularization. My sole aim was to

offer Suryasiddhantic alternative to those who want it it. Those who do not want

may forget it. And those who are midway, in doubts, may test it. But there are

some persons who want to suppress it, but this dictatorial wish will fail to

close down all Sanskrit universities and traditional panchangas.

I had told Prashant ji that I plan to prepare at least 20 case studies (in

addition to 6 old case studies at my website for over 6 months). But during past

two days, I have not found any time to add even one case study, because I am

constantly bombarded with abusive mails in VA, useless mails about

Suryasiddhantic mathematics by SKB in JG, and long mails in JR. I have twice

complained in JR that I must be spared some time to present case studies, but it

is not happening.

Shenoy Ji once said that I am under no compulsion to send any case studies, and

those who want to test Kundalee can test it on their own. I know Shenoy Ji is

right. There are persons who will never discuss case studies sent by me, but

will demand for more, so as to raise suspicion among others about my integrity

and reliability, and just at the moment when I agreed to prepare and sent more

case studies, the conducive climate built by GH Prashant Ji came under attack

by skeptics and abusers in more than one fora.

In this respect, I must point out that none of the persons who are

demanding for case studies have installed my software, although two of

them initially attempted. Had they installed it and tested it, they

would not have felt any need to press a software developer to present

case studies.

Whether someone reads case studies or forecasts from me or not, I am going to

upload them at my website, whose address is known to 2085 users who dowloaded

Kundalee since 1-1-2009, besides others who have visited that website.

I respect RR Ji, but he does not know that I have reached the limits : for days

I do not get any time to do any constructive work, all my time is wasted on

replying to doubts, queries , abuses, etc. I need 4 days of break from all fora

for presenting first installment of case studies, but at present rate of my

involvement in fora, I will need more than a month, and in the meantime the

climate will become worse leading to my resignation from all internet fora for

ever.

I request members to spare me some time. Other software developers do not

respond to all messages. I try my best to respond to ALL messages, because

failure to respond will be construed as failure to prove, by those who have

deliberately built an adverse climate against me.

I hope members here will try to read my situation and the workload on me. Any

attempt to drag me in any useless controversies, at least for few days, will

result in my failure to prepare case studies in due time. Those who really want

to see my case studies can find them at my website, although any discussion on

an unfinished project will stall the completion of that project.

I know RR Ji's good intentions, but he does not know that most of my time is

being wasted over useless replies.

-Vinay Jha

================== ====

________________________________

Rohiniranjan <rohini_ranjan

Sunday, May 24, 2009 2:25:57 PM