Astrology -- Conditions for Predicting Accurately

July 12, 2009

RR Ji and Shenoy Ji,

Most of members here might have read the following (BPHS, ch-28 last two

verse, but ch-27 in internet version) :

<<<

Eligibility of Issue Fruitful Predictions. O Maitreya, the words of one,

who has achieved skill in mathematics, one, who has put in industrious

efforts in the branch of grammar, one, who has knowledge of justice,

one, who is intelligent, one, who has knowledge of geography, space and

time, one, who has conquered his senses, one, who is skilfully logical

(in estimation) and one, who is favourable to Jyotish, will doubtless be

truthful.

>>>

dialectics

Three errors by translator :

(1) Replace the word " justice " with " methods of dialectics as propounded

in Nyaaya Philosophy " .

(2) Replace " senses " with " indriyas " ; senses are only five but indriyas

are ten, and include phallus (that is why Jitendriya (Samyat-indriya in

the otiginal) is generally used as synonymous to Brahmacharya.

(3) " favourable to Jyotish " should be replaced with " deft in hearing and

contemplating Horaashaastra " (mark that " reading " is absent ; brahmins

did not read or write except when a work needed to be preserved, and all

education was oral.

Carelessness of translators often changes the original meanings.

We can classify the conditions laid down by Sage Parashara for true

phalaadesh under two categories :

(A)

(1) skill in mathematics,

(2) grammar,

(3) dialectics of Nyaaya,

(4) knowledge of geography, space and time,

(5) skilfully logical (in estimation)

(B)

(1) jitendriya (like a yogi, including brahmacharya, needed even for

grihasthas),

(2) in-telligent (not extelligent as most of us are now) or Buddhimaana

(in original) : Buddhi was distinguished from cleverness of dhoorta :

Vyaasabhaashya of Patanjali's Yogasutra defines Buddhi as the faculty

which enables one to follow the rules of Shaastras.

The first category of conditions can be acquired through study and

training, but the second category needs self-purification through

tapasyaa, without which inner purity (or innocence as RR Ji puts it)

cannot be attained. Even scoundrels imagine themselves to be innocent.

And scoundrels generally find faults with really innocent persons.

Hence, who is really innocent cannot be decided either on one's own or

on the basis of votes from others. When real innocence is attained, God

starts teaching by means of inner tuition or intuition, which is the

foundation of intelligence, because without intuiton intelligence is

nothing but Machiavellian contrivances of the mind which lead to logical

conclusions and not to Truth.

-VJ

======================== ===

, " Rohiniranjan "

<rohini_ranjan wrote:

>

> For what it is worth, Aaadarneeya Shenoy-jee when I wrote that, it was

a very hot day here and I was not even wearing a shirt! So, no sleeves

jee!!

>

> Being environmentally conscious here, some of us do not use

air-conditioning particularly when we are at home! I hope I am not being

too graphic and direct on this forum?

>

> RR

>

> , " sureshbabuag " sureshbabuag@

wrote:

> >

> > Dear Rohiniji,

> >

> > Funny, You mention it (innocence), I continued writing on the need

to go back to the roots at that point and ...... but suddenly realised

that you have something up your sleeve AND it better you reveal it

yourself.

> >

> > A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy

> >

> > , " Rohiniranjan "

<rohini_ranjan@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Aadarneeya Shenoy ji,

> > >

> > > I held back the third pod of the tripod (The two feet already

described being: Curiosity and Motivation) which is neither success nor

treasure.

> > >

> > > It is " innocence " ! :-)

> > >

> > > I recommend that third foot that stabilizes perception and

understanding to all Jyotishis and Jyotishi-wannabees!

> > >

> > > If H1 is curiosity (the infant arriving in this reality at birth

epoch), never alone but paired by the house opposite for whatever it

brindicates, H9 is motivation because that is what bhagyaa is supposed

to be to set us up and its complement = third house of intelligent and

meaningful EFFORT!

> > >

> > > The innocence in my simple scheme comes from the fifth house of

course! the natural missing element of the tripod that I have written

about many times and in many a ways! For those who have had the

privilege of being parents, the message would not be lost for the first

time any of us ordinary householders rediscover innocence is at the

moment of birth of our first-born!

> > >

> > > From that innocent and gifted moment begins our journey to build

our future as a soul!

> > >

> > > Interestingly, that moment of realization brings into focus for

MOST if not ALL the other two pods: curiosity and motivation! Only this

time as an observer and dare I say -- a creator?

> > >

> > > Rohini

> > >

> > > , " sureshbabuag "

<sureshbabuag@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Rohini,

> > > >

> > > > You have mentioned two key words " Motivation " directly and

implied another " Curiosity " .

> > > >

> > > > Many persons also start to learn Astrology first out of

Curiosity. Motivation may come later. " Success " also plays its part in

motivating to move forward in search of " treasure " and to fly into

realms of cosmos.

> > > >

> > > > A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

July 12, 2009

Dear Vinay-Jee,

You state:

"

(1) skill in mathematics,

(2) grammar,

(3) dialectics of Nyaaya,

(4) knowledge of geography, space and time,

(5) skilfully logical (in estimation)

"

Where in this scheme that you extracted is the human being expressed? The

ordinary householder for whom alone was Jyotish created? The folks that seek

readings and advice about their problems and so on, as visualized daily on this

forum and many others similar?

Why do they seek out those for guidance, that have none of these five

requirements? Are the accreditating bodies that dictated these requirements

mistaken or the requirements themselves are?

Just a thought -- not even a question!

Rohiniranjan

July 12, 2009

RR Ji,

<<<

Why do they seek out those for guidance, that have none of these five

requirements?

>>>

Those who follow the strictures of shaastras in practical life have to

live alone now-a-days. The last chapter of Shrimad-Bhaagavata says that

an ignorant disciple prefers an ignorant guru (and keeps away from the

real guru). When Grahas are too bad, one finds bad astrologers, who

suggest wrong remedies. After all, fruits of karmas must be borne. Those

who cannot perform corretives due to defects in their own character are

sent by God to bad astrologers. People want to cheat planets by means of

gems or by asking pandits do do japa, instead of improving their future

karmas and ameliorate the past fruits through japa and tapa. I wonder

where gems fit in the theory of karma which is the basis of jyotisha.

-VJ

==================== =

, " Rohiniranjan "

<rohini_ranjan wrote:

>

> Dear Vinay-Jee,

>

> You state:

>

> "

> (1) skill in mathematics,

> (2) grammar,

> (3) dialectics of Nyaaya,

> (4) knowledge of geography, space and time,

> (5) skilfully logical (in estimation)

> "

>

> Where in this scheme that you extracted is the human being expressed?

The ordinary householder for whom alone was Jyotish created? The folks

that seek readings and advice about their problems and so on, as

visualized daily on this forum and many others similar?

>

> Why do they seek out those for guidance, that have none of these five

requirements? Are the accreditating bodies that dictated these

requirements mistaken or the requirements themselves are?

>

> Just a thought -- not even a question!

>

> Rohiniranjan

>

July 12, 2009

Dear Vinay Ji,

Welcome back after a long period. I was wondering if you were on a tour or

something.

A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy

, " vinayjhaa16 " <vinayjhaa16 wrote:

>

> RR Ji and Shenoy Ji,

>

> Most of members here might have read the following (BPHS, ch-28 last two

> verse, but ch-27 in internet version) :

>

> <<<

> Eligibility of Issue Fruitful Predictions. O Maitreya, the words of one,

> who has achieved skill in mathematics, one, who has put in industrious

> efforts in the branch of grammar, one, who has knowledge of justice,

> one, who is intelligent, one, who has knowledge of geography, space and

> time, one, who has conquered his senses, one, who is skilfully logical

> (in estimation) and one, who is favourable to Jyotish, will doubtless be

> truthful.

> >>>

> dialectics

> Three errors by translator :

> (1) Replace the word " justice " with " methods of dialectics as propounded

> in Nyaaya Philosophy " .

>

> (2) Replace " senses " with " indriyas " ; senses are only five but indriyas

> are ten, and include phallus (that is why Jitendriya (Samyat-indriya in

> the otiginal) is generally used as synonymous to Brahmacharya.

>

> (3) " favourable to Jyotish " should be replaced with " deft in hearing and

> contemplating Horaashaastra " (mark that " reading " is absent ; brahmins

> did not read or write except when a work needed to be preserved, and all

> education was oral.

>

> Carelessness of translators often changes the original meanings.

>

> We can classify the conditions laid down by Sage Parashara for true

> phalaadesh under two categories :

>

> (A)

>

> (1) skill in mathematics,

> (2) grammar,

> (3) dialectics of Nyaaya,

> (4) knowledge of geography, space and time,

> (5) skilfully logical (in estimation)

>

> (B)

>

> (1) jitendriya (like a yogi, including brahmacharya, needed even for

> grihasthas),

>

> (2) in-telligent (not extelligent as most of us are now) or Buddhimaana

> (in original) : Buddhi was distinguished from cleverness of dhoorta :

> Vyaasabhaashya of Patanjali's Yogasutra defines Buddhi as the faculty

> which enables one to follow the rules of Shaastras.

>

> The first category of conditions can be acquired through study and

> training, but the second category needs self-purification through

> tapasyaa, without which inner purity (or innocence as RR Ji puts it)

> cannot be attained. Even scoundrels imagine themselves to be innocent.

> And scoundrels generally find faults with really innocent persons.

> Hence, who is really innocent cannot be decided either on one's own or

> on the basis of votes from others. When real innocence is attained, God

> starts teaching by means of inner tuition or intuition, which is the

> foundation of intelligence, because without intuiton intelligence is

> nothing but Machiavellian contrivances of the mind which lead to logical

> conclusions and not to Truth.

>

> -VJ

> ======================== ===

> , " Rohiniranjan "

> <rohini_ranjan@> wrote:

> >

> > For what it is worth, Aaadarneeya Shenoy-jee when I wrote that, it was

> a very hot day here and I was not even wearing a shirt! So, no sleeves

> jee!!

> >

> > Being environmentally conscious here, some of us do not use

> air-conditioning particularly when we are at home! I hope I am not being

> too graphic and direct on this forum?

> >

> > RR

> >

> > , " sureshbabuag " sureshbabuag@

> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Rohiniji,

> > >

> > > Funny, You mention it (innocence), I continued writing on the need

> to go back to the roots at that point and ...... but suddenly realised

> that you have something up your sleeve AND it better you reveal it

> yourself.

> > >

> > > A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy

> > >

> > > , " Rohiniranjan "

> <rohini_ranjan@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Aadarneeya Shenoy ji,

> > > >

> > > > I held back the third pod of the tripod (The two feet already

> described being: Curiosity and Motivation) which is neither success nor

> treasure.

> > > >

> > > > It is " innocence " ! :-)

> > > >

> > > > I recommend that third foot that stabilizes perception and

> understanding to all Jyotishis and Jyotishi-wannabees!

> > > >

> > > > If H1 is curiosity (the infant arriving in this reality at birth

> epoch), never alone but paired by the house opposite for whatever it

> brindicates, H9 is motivation because that is what bhagyaa is supposed

> to be to set us up and its complement = third house of intelligent and

> meaningful EFFORT!

> > > >

> > > > The innocence in my simple scheme comes from the fifth house of

> course! the natural missing element of the tripod that I have written

> about many times and in many a ways! For those who have had the

> privilege of being parents, the message would not be lost for the first

> time any of us ordinary householders rediscover innocence is at the

> moment of birth of our first-born!

> > > >

> > > > From that innocent and gifted moment begins our journey to build

> our future as a soul!

> > > >

> > > > Interestingly, that moment of realization brings into focus for

> MOST if not ALL the other two pods: curiosity and motivation! Only this

> time as an observer and dare I say -- a creator?

> > > >

> > > > Rohini

> > > >

> > > > , " sureshbabuag "

> <sureshbabuag@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Rohini,

> > > > >

> > > > > You have mentioned two key words " Motivation " directly and

> implied another " Curiosity " .

> > > > >

> > > > > Many persons also start to learn Astrology first out of

> Curiosity. Motivation may come later. " Success " also plays its part in

> motivating to move forward in search of " treasure " and to fly into

> realms of cosmos.

> > > > >

> > > > > A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

July 12, 2009

Dear Vinay Ji,

Once I was alone! I experienced that when I was a teenager. The first time when

the family I was raised in had to split. Just because Dada had to finish his

work and thesis and so on. We were travelling by car and towards Gujrat that

summer. I will skip the bad parts experienced and get to the crux! Dwarka --

there was a dak-banglaa we were housed in and there was a natural beach behind

it. No sand back in those days, just boulders and the Sea! And the lighthouse

of-course!

I will spare the details but it is amazing how suddenly TIME escapes as if it

never existed!

It never did! That is why funerals and memorials are important!!

Rohiniranjan

, " vinayjhaa16 " <vinayjhaa16 wrote:

>

> RR Ji,

>

> <<<

> Why do they seek out those for guidance, that have none of these five

> requirements?

> >>>

>

> Those who follow the strictures of shaastras in practical life have to

> live alone now-a-days. The last chapter of Shrimad-Bhaagavata says that

> an ignorant disciple prefers an ignorant guru (and keeps away from the

> real guru). When Grahas are too bad, one finds bad astrologers, who

> suggest wrong remedies. After all, fruits of karmas must be borne. Those

> who cannot perform corretives due to defects in their own character are

> sent by God to bad astrologers. People want to cheat planets by means of

> gems or by asking pandits do do japa, instead of improving their future

> karmas and ameliorate the past fruits through japa and tapa. I wonder

> where gems fit in the theory of karma which is the basis of jyotisha.

>

> -VJ

> ==================== =

> , " Rohiniranjan "

> <rohini_ranjan@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Vinay-Jee,

> >

> > You state:

> >

> > "

> > (1) skill in mathematics,

> > (2) grammar,

> > (3) dialectics of Nyaaya,

> > (4) knowledge of geography, space and time,

> > (5) skilfully logical (in estimation)

> > "

> >

> > Where in this scheme that you extracted is the human being expressed?

> The ordinary householder for whom alone was Jyotish created? The folks

> that seek readings and advice about their problems and so on, as

> visualized daily on this forum and many others similar?

> >

> > Why do they seek out those for guidance, that have none of these five

> requirements? Are the accreditating bodies that dictated these

> requirements mistaken or the requirements themselves are?

> >

> > Just a thought -- not even a question!

> >

> > Rohiniranjan

> >

>

July 13, 2009

Shenoy ji,

Namaste,

My computer remains online most of the time, except when I am out of my town. I

was never away. But I found that members in all fora have no time to carry out

any detailed astrological comparison between horoscopes based on Sursiddhanta

and physical astronomy. Hence, now I try to save time for software development

and other more lasting works.

During this interval, I have managed to start a Vedic Gurukul with 50

brahmachaaris in the beginning, providing all of them free food, lodging and

education in traditional and modern disciplines. Physical infrastructure and

finance is almost ready, now I am searching for qualified teachers and students.

Sanskrit education in Bihar ( & c) is in dilapidated state, due to malpractices in

examination which I am unable to eradicate even in colleges controlled by me due

to apathy of central and state Govts. But I hope to make some amount of change.

I possess databases of 9 million places with information about meridian,

elevation (of every part of globe including seas at every 1' interval) & c, and I

am integrating it in Kundalee software, together with topographical maps of

South Asia. Main work is over, esp about South Asia.

-VJ

======================= ==

________________________________

sureshbabuag <sureshbabuag

Sunday, July 12, 2009 3:29:17 PM

Re: Astrology -- Conditions for Predicting Accurately

Dear Vinay Ji,

Welcome back after a long period. I was wondering if you were on a tour or

something.

A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy

, " vinayjhaa16 " <vinayjhaa16@ ...>