Fwd: Fwd: Fw: History of Varga Charts !!!

[Guest guest]

---------- Forwarded message ----------

Agastya Rishi <agastya.rishi

Sun, 18 Oct 2009 15:13:58 +0530

Re: Fwd: Fw: Re: History of Varga Charts !!!

 

 

My comments follow:

 

On 10/14/09, Krishen <jyotirved wrote:

>

> Indian_Astrology_Group_Daily_Digest , AKKaul@@

> wrote:

>

>

> Shri Prashant Pandey ji,

>

> Jai Shri Ram!

>

> <It was really impossible to break the ice without showing the real

> proof(though those are against Hindu astrology but facts are facts),

> that Divisional charts are stand alone creativities and as much older as

> Rashi charts.>

>

>

> Regarding varga charts, we find their definition first of all in

> Sphujidwaja's yavanajatakam. Pl. see chapter 1, shlokas 30 to 58 at

 

This is wrong. Parasara Rsi defined them well before that. Yavana

Jatakam is from 2-3rd century AD.

 

 

 

>

> http://www.astrojyoti.com/yavanajatakamainpage.htm

> <http://www.astrojyoti.com/yavanajatakamainpage.htm>

>

> Thus It is not only planetary astronomy in the form of Surya Sidhanta by

> Maya the mlechha, the first so called indigenous astronomical work to

> calculate planets vis-a-vis Mesha etc. rashis, that was imported from

> the Greeks, but even phalita jyotisha!

>

> This is evident from the following lines on top of the " Yavana Jataka "

> by Yavanacharya, in the the above website, and I quote, " Page 1

 

 

 

 

> Sage Yavana, who belonged to the Alexander period, wrote Yavana Jataka.

 

Wrong, he is from 500 years later, you have not done your homework properly.

 

 

> He was an astrologer in the Greek court in India. Because of this he was

> called Yavanacharya or Greek Guru, and hence a lot of western

> astrologers claim that Indians learned astrology from the Greeks!!

 

Again wrong. All Greeks were Yavanas but not all Yavanas were Greeks.

You are not even repeating Western scholars properly because even they

say Yavana Jataka is from 2-3rd century AD, NOT 4th century BC.

 

> There

> are a few areas where his interpretations of results are different.

> Because of this it is an important classic. The teachings of

> Yavanacharya were recorded by a king called Sphujidhwaja " .

 

You have not read it correctly. This Yavanacarya was not a Greek, he

was a Yavana. For example in Yavanajaka it is mentioned how the old

Yavanas defined Vargotamma, when rasi and navamsa are same it is

vargotamma. Well my dear friend the Greeks did not use NAVAMASA, even

Pingree agrees to this. So these Yavanas were not Greeks.

 

>

> Interestingly, the above site has not been hosted by some " David

> Pingree " but by

>

> Pandit S.P.Tata

> H-5/3, 3rd Floor

> Malviya Nagar

> New Delhi - 110017.

>

> It is a moot point as to how Yavanacharya was an astrologer of the time

> of Alexander and simultaneously " pontificated " in a Greek court in

> India then!

 

Greeks didn’t have astrology at that time. Get your history right, it

was not introduced to Greek till 280 BC by Berrossus, more than 50

years after the death of Alexander.

 

Basically you do not know what you are talking about so stop talking.

 

 

 

>We must bear in mind that there were no Mesha etc. rashis

> in Inida prior to the Surya Sidhanta in India, and that work is of a

> later era i.e. around first century BCE/AD, whereas Alexander was

> actually from Macedonia (Balkan Penninusual), who conquered Greek states

> and then invaded India in around 326 BCE!

>

> If you go through this Yavanajataka, chapter 2 and other chapters, a

> bit carefully and then compare the contents with that of Brihat Jatakam

> by the greatest charlatan of the last two millenia, you will not see

> much difference, especially in the description of Hora, Dreshkana etc.

>

> If you can get hold of the original Yavana Jtakam in Sanskrit (Vol I and

> Vol -II), edited by David Pingree and published by Harvard University

> Press in 1970, you will see it for yourself that the names and

> definitions of the Rashis in that work in Greek are more or less the

> same in Brihat Jatakam by Varahamihira, and Varahamihira was around

> fifth century AD, a " successor " to Yavanacharya!

 

These volumes are no longer in print last time I checked, I have

copies. Pingree made many blunders. You just accept him because he is

a sahib, and you are a sahib chamcha.

 

 

>

> I think that should put to rest the tug of war whether the divisional

> charts and Mesha etc. rashis emanated from South India or North India!

> They actually emanated from the Greeks!

 

Again you do not know anything. The Greeks only used dodekotemoria,

division by 12, equivalent to dvadasamsa. They didn’t use

shodasavargas as you claim.

 

Have you ever read Vettius Valens, or Firmicus Maternus, or Theodorus

of Sidon? No, these were Hellenistic astrologers and they didn’t have

shodasavargas only rasi chart and dodekotemoria.

 

 

 

>

> And as is is an open secret by now, we are experts in calling evey

> technique in predictive gimmicks of Indian origin, only to make a fool

> of ourselves!

 

Be careful who you are calling a fool.

 

We of course should not blindly follow what is written about jyotish

 

I was forwarded a link to a very interesting article by a leading

scholar in Vedic astrology (Shyamasundara Dasa) regarding the

authenticity of the Brhat Parasara Hora Sastra. It was fascinating

reading and gave a whole new twist to my understanding of Vedic

astrology. For instance it gave sharp observations such as: Jaimini

astrology was not mentioned in any classical text and didn’t appear on

the scene until 16th century, how unequal house systems are recent

innovations and that the method of remedial measure mentioned in Brhat

Parasara Hora Sastra are basically bogus.

 

This article is especially important because so many astrologers put

their blind faith in BPHS without questioning if it is authentic or

not. (Just as some are putting blind faith in David Pingree.) After

reading it I was convinced that the modern BPHS is not authentic and

should be handled with care.

 

However, he showed that the core of Brhat Parasara Hora Sastra, things

like shodasa vargas, shad balas etc, are genuine and very ancient and

actually taught by Parasara Rsi.

 

Anyway if you are interested in a deeper understanding of Vedic

astrology then you may find this article as interesting as I did.

 

It can be found here:

 

http://shyamasundaradasa.com/jyotish/resources/articles/bphs.html

 

With regards

 

Agastya

[Guest guest]

---------- Forwarded message ----------

Agastya Rishi <agastya.rishi

Sun, 18 Oct 2009 15:13:58 +0530

Re: Fwd: Fw: Re: History of Varga Charts !!!

 

 

My comments follow:

 

On 10/14/09, Krishen <jyotirved wrote:

>

> Indian_Astrology_Group_Daily_Digest , AKKaul@@

> wrote:

>

>

> Shri Prashant Pandey ji,

>

> Jai Shri Ram!

>

> <It was really impossible to break the ice without showing the real

> proof(though those are against Hindu astrology but facts are facts),

> that Divisional charts are stand alone creativities and as much older as

> Rashi charts.>

>

>

> Regarding varga charts, we find their definition first of all in

> Sphujidwaja's yavanajatakam. Pl. see chapter 1, shlokas 30 to 58 at

 

This is wrong. Parasara Rsi defined them well before that. Yavana

Jatakam is from 2-3rd century AD.

 

 

 

>

> http://www.astrojyoti.com/yavanajatakamainpage.htm

> <http://www.astrojyoti.com/yavanajatakamainpage.htm>

>

> Thus It is not only planetary astronomy in the form of Surya Sidhanta by

> Maya the mlechha, the first so called indigenous astronomical work to

> calculate planets vis-a-vis Mesha etc. rashis, that was imported from

> the Greeks, but even phalita jyotisha!

>

> This is evident from the following lines on top of the " Yavana Jataka "

> by Yavanacharya, in the the above website, and I quote, " Page 1

 

 

 

 

> Sage Yavana, who belonged to the Alexander period, wrote Yavana Jataka.

 

Wrong, he is from 500 years later, you have not done your homework properly.

 

 

> He was an astrologer in the Greek court in India. Because of this he was

> called Yavanacharya or Greek Guru, and hence a lot of western

> astrologers claim that Indians learned astrology from the Greeks!!

 

Again wrong. All Greeks were Yavanas but not all Yavanas were Greeks.

You are not even repeating Western scholars properly because even they

say Yavana Jataka is from 2-3rd century AD, NOT 4th century BC.

 

> There

> are a few areas where his interpretations of results are different.

> Because of this it is an important classic. The teachings of

> Yavanacharya were recorded by a king called Sphujidhwaja " .

 

You have not read it correctly. This Yavanacarya was not a Greek, he

was a Yavana. For example in Yavanajaka it is mentioned how the old

Yavanas defined Vargotamma, when rasi and navamsa are same it is

vargotamma. Well my dear friend the Greeks did not use NAVAMASA, even

Pingree agrees to this. So these Yavanas were not Greeks.

 

>

> Interestingly, the above site has not been hosted by some " David

> Pingree " but by

>

> Pandit S.P.Tata

> H-5/3, 3rd Floor

> Malviya Nagar

> New Delhi - 110017.

>

> It is a moot point as to how Yavanacharya was an astrologer of the time

> of Alexander and simultaneously " pontificated " in a Greek court in

> India then!

 

Greeks didn’t have astrology at that time. Get your history right, it

was not introduced to Greek till 280 BC by Berrossus, more than 50

years after the death of Alexander.

 

Basically you do not know what you are talking about so stop talking.

 

 

 

>We must bear in mind that there were no Mesha etc. rashis

> in Inida prior to the Surya Sidhanta in India, and that work is of a

> later era i.e. around first century BCE/AD, whereas Alexander was

> actually from Macedonia (Balkan Penninusual), who conquered Greek states

> and then invaded India in around 326 BCE!

>

> If you go through this Yavanajataka, chapter 2 and other chapters, a

> bit carefully and then compare the contents with that of Brihat Jatakam

> by the greatest charlatan of the last two millenia, you will not see

> much difference, especially in the description of Hora, Dreshkana etc.

>

> If you can get hold of the original Yavana Jtakam in Sanskrit (Vol I and

> Vol -II), edited by David Pingree and published by Harvard University

> Press in 1970, you will see it for yourself that the names and

> definitions of the Rashis in that work in Greek are more or less the

> same in Brihat Jatakam by Varahamihira, and Varahamihira was around

> fifth century AD, a " successor " to Yavanacharya!

 

These volumes are no longer in print last time I checked, I have

copies. Pingree made many blunders. You just accept him because he is

a sahib, and you are a sahib chamcha.

 

 

>

> I think that should put to rest the tug of war whether the divisional

> charts and Mesha etc. rashis emanated from South India or North India!

> They actually emanated from the Greeks!

 

Again you do not know anything. The Greeks only used dodekotemoria,

division by 12, equivalent to dvadasamsa. They didn’t use

shodasavargas as you claim.

 

Have you ever read Vettius Valens, or Firmicus Maternus, or Theodorus

of Sidon? No, these were Hellenistic astrologers and they didn’t have

shodasavargas only rasi chart and dodekotemoria.

 

 

 

>

> And as is is an open secret by now, we are experts in calling evey

> technique in predictive gimmicks of Indian origin, only to make a fool

> of ourselves!

 

Be careful who you are calling a fool.

 

We of course should not blindly follow what is written about jyotish

 

I was forwarded a link to a very interesting article by a leading

scholar in Vedic astrology (Shyamasundara Dasa) regarding the

authenticity of the Brhat Parasara Hora Sastra. It was fascinating

reading and gave a whole new twist to my understanding of Vedic

astrology. For instance it gave sharp observations such as: Jaimini

astrology was not mentioned in any classical text and didn’t appear on

the scene until 16th century, how unequal house systems are recent

innovations and that the method of remedial measure mentioned in Brhat

Parasara Hora Sastra are basically bogus.

 

This article is especially important because so many astrologers put

their blind faith in BPHS without questioning if it is authentic or

not. (Just as some are putting blind faith in David Pingree.) After

reading it I was convinced that the modern BPHS is not authentic and

should be handled with care.

 

However, he showed that the core of Brhat Parasara Hora Sastra, things

like shodasa vargas, shad balas etc, are genuine and very ancient and

actually taught by Parasara Rsi.

 

Anyway if you are interested in a deeper understanding of Vedic

astrology then you may find this article as interesting as I did.

 

It can be found here:

 

http://shyamasundaradasa.com/jyotish/resources/articles/bphs.html

 

With regards

 

Agastya