Guest guest Posted November 22, 2009 Report Share Posted November 22, 2009 Strong upswing continues at BSE on Nov 23, but relative downswing in steel sector. -VJ ==================== ==== , " VJha " <vinayjhaa16 wrote: > > To All, > > I had predicted : <<<Very strong Bull at BSE on Nov 20.>>> > > Actual figure is : +236.2 points or +1.407% on Nov 20. > > Earlier, I had specified my scaling as follows : <<<0.92%, which is > termed " significant " in my scaling. Changes of ~2% to ~3% may be termed > " tremendous up/down swing " , while smaller changes are termed in milder > terms.>>> > > Thus, 1.4% may be termed as " very strong " , ie less than " tremendous " and > more than " significant " . > > Earlier, I paid scanty attention to D9 and D2 because my stock > forecasting software was incomplete. But after the inclusion of these > divisionals, my predictions have improved in accuracy. > > Practical testing is the criterion of truth in astrology, which some > persons try to drown under non-astrological jargon. In an astrological > forum, there is no need to show one's proficiency in economics or > business management or other subjects : members ought to concentrate on > pure astrology here. But Rohiniranjan Ji was right in suggesting that > internet is not meant for anything serious. > > -VJ > ====================== ==== > ==================== ==== > , Vattem Krishnan bursar_99@ > wrote: > > > > Dear Sirs, > > The bulls run also is a sentiment and the correction in market > trends.Financial markets are still not responsive along with > manufacturing sectors.over all it is time for offloading some of the old > stock. > > > > > > Vattem Krishnan > > Cyber Jyotish Services > > (For all counseling services) > > Â > > > > --- On Thu, 11/19/09, VJha vinayjhaa16@ wrote: > > > > > > VJha vinayjhaa16@ > > StockForecast for Nov 20 > > > > Thursday, November 19, 2009, 9:56 AM > > > > > > Â > > > > > > > > Very strong Bull at BSE on Nov 20. > > > > -VJ > > ============ ======== == > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 Dear Vinay Ji, Compliments for your prediction but part of seems to be offtrack like e.g. Tata steel was up : I have no checked the entire steel sector so maybe things might be different. As per one of your mails the upswing continues and maybe the sensex surpasses 18000 by 3rd Dec : considering that you had indicated that anuradha is at its best during this period does it signify that there would be a continuos upswing till 3rd Dec on a daily basis ?? Also would appreciate your specific reading about 24th Nov. Regards Sameer ________________________________ VJha <vinayjhaa16 Sun, 22 November, 2009 7:34:40 PM Re: StockForecast for Nov 20 & 23  Strong upswing continues at BSE on Nov 23, but relative downswing in steel sector. -VJ ============ ======== ==== , " VJha " <vinayjhaa16@ ...> wrote: > > To All, > > I had predicted : <<<Very strong Bull at BSE on Nov 20.>>> > > Actual figure is : +236.2 points or +1.407% on Nov 20. > > Earlier, I had specified my scaling as follows : <<<0.92%, which is > termed " significant " in my scaling. Changes of ~2% to ~3% may be termed > " tremendous up/down swing " , while smaller changes are termed in milder > terms.>>> > > Thus, 1.4% may be termed as " very strong " , ie less than " tremendous " and > more than " significant " . > > Earlier, I paid scanty attention to D9 and D2 because my stock > forecasting software was incomplete. But after the inclusion of these > divisionals, my predictions have improved in accuracy. > > Practical testing is the criterion of truth in astrology, which some > persons try to drown under non-astrological jargon. In an astrological > forum, there is no need to show one's proficiency in economics or > business management or other subjects : members ought to concentrate on > pure astrology here. But Rohiniranjan Ji was right in suggesting that > internet is not meant for anything serious. > > -VJ > ============ ========= = ==== > ============ ======== ==== > , Vattem Krishnan bursar_99@ > wrote: > > > > Dear Sirs, > > The bulls run also is a sentiment and the correction in market > trends.Financial markets are still not responsive along with > manufacturing sectors.over all it is time for offloading some of the old > stock. > > > > > > Vattem Krishnan > > Cyber Jyotish Services > > (For all counseling services) > > Â > > > > --- On Thu, 11/19/09, VJha vinayjhaa16@ wrote: > > > > > > VJha vinayjhaa16@ > > StockForecast for Nov 20 > > > > Thursday, November 19, 2009, 9:56 AM > > > > > > Â > > > > > > > > Very strong Bull at BSE on Nov 20. > > > > -VJ > > ============ ======== == > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 No part of my forecast was offtrack : your analysis is based on partial data and wrong interpretation of my language (no offence intended). My words were " ...relative downswing in steel sector " . Mind the word " relative " , which means performance of steel sector will be weaker than that of BSE as a whole. Tata steel showed same performance on 23 as on previous working day (20), but SAIL showed a relative downturn which was worse than the relative downturn of entire BSE with respect to Nov 20. Jindal steel showed a negative performance on 23 Nov. These major companies taken together proved my forecast to be absolutely correct : steel sector showed an upswing in absolute terms, but with respect to entire BSE, steel sector showed a " relative " downswing. Following is the current market capitalization of three biggest steel companies listed at BSE : SAIL :Rs 79035 cr, Jindal Steel :Rs 67258 cr, Tata Steel :Rs 48939 crores. Please do some paperwork to find out the absolute gains of these three companies on 23rd Nov and then compare the relative change in the combined market value of these three steel companies with respect to BSE-30 or BSE-500 : you will find the truth. My stock-forecating software is still not finished, but now it is far more reliable than it was ten days ago, because I included D9 and D2 in my stock software. -VJ ================ === , sameer aggarwal <sam_agg888 wrote: > > Dear Vinay Ji, > Compliments for your prediction but part of seems to be offtrack like e.g. Tata steel was up : I have no checked the entire steel sector so maybe things might be different. As per one of your mails the upswing continues and maybe the sensex surpasses 18000 by 3rd Dec : considering that you had indicated that anuradha is at its best during this period does it signify that there would be a continuos upswing till 3rd Dec on a daily basis ?? Also would appreciate your specific reading about 24th Nov. > Regards > Sameer > > > > > ________________________________ > VJha vinayjhaa16 > > Sun, 22 November, 2009 7:34:40 PM > Re: StockForecast for Nov 20 & 23 > >  > Strong upswing continues at BSE on Nov 23, but relative downswing in > steel sector. > > -VJ > ============ ======== ==== > , " VJha " <vinayjhaa16@ ...> wrote: > > > > To All, > > > > I had predicted : <<<Very strong Bull at BSE on Nov 20.>>> > > > > Actual figure is : +236.2 points or +1.407% on Nov 20. > > > > Earlier, I had specified my scaling as follows : <<<0.92%, which is > > termed " significant " in my scaling. Changes of ~2% to ~3% may be > termed > > " tremendous up/down swing " , while smaller changes are termed in milder > > terms.>>> > > > > Thus, 1.4% may be termed as " very strong " , ie less than " tremendous " > and > > more than " significant " . > > > > Earlier, I paid scanty attention to D9 and D2 because my stock > > forecasting software was incomplete. But after the inclusion of these > > divisionals, my predictions have improved in accuracy. > > > > Practical testing is the criterion of truth in astrology, which some > > persons try to drown under non-astrological jargon. In an > astrological > > forum, there is no need to show one's proficiency in economics or > > business management or other subjects : members ought to concentrate > on > > pure astrology here. But Rohiniranjan Ji was right in suggesting that > > internet is not meant for anything serious. > > > > -VJ > > ============ ========= = ==== > > ============ ======== ==== > > , Vattem Krishnan bursar_99@ > > wrote: > > > > > > Dear Sirs, > > > The bulls run also is a sentiment and the correction in market > > trends.Financial markets are still not responsive along with > > manufacturing sectors.over all it is time for offloading some of the > old > > stock. > > > > > > > > > Vattem Krishnan > > > Cyber Jyotish Services > > > (For all counseling services) > > > Â > > > > > > --- On Thu, 11/19/09, VJha vinayjhaa16@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > VJha vinayjhaa16@ > > > StockForecast for Nov 20 > > > > > > Thursday, November 19, 2009, 9:56 AM > > > > > > > > > Â > > > > > > > > > > > > Very strong Bull at BSE on Nov 20. > > > > > > -VJ > > > ============ ======== == > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2009 Report Share Posted November 23, 2009 Dear Vinay Ji, I did mention that maybe I am wrong as I did not study the performance of the entire sector. Also I have appreciated and repeat that your prediction now is definately more close to the practical happenings that it was 2 weeks ago. I did not feel offended ( and hopefully will never do ) as I just put forward what I feel, sometime overlooking some facts, or as you said due to misinterpretation of what is predicted. I once again compliment you for your effort devotion of your valuable time. Best Regards Sameer ________________________________ VJha <vinayjhaa16 Mon, 23 November, 2009 7:39:03 PM Re: StockForecast for Nov 20 & 23  No part of my forecast was offtrack : your analysis is based on partial data and wrong interpretation of my language (no offence intended). My words were " ...relative downswing in steel sector " . Mind the word " relative " , which means performance of steel sector will be weaker than that of BSE as a whole. Tata steel showed same performance on 23 as on previous working day (20), but SAIL showed a relative downturn which was worse than the relative downturn of entire BSE with respect to Nov 20. Jindal steel showed a negative performance on 23 Nov. These major companies taken together proved my forecast to be absolutely correct : steel sector showed an upswing in absolute terms, but with respect to entire BSE, steel sector showed a " relative " downswing. Following is the current market capitalization of three biggest steel companies listed at BSE : SAIL :Rs 79035 cr, Jindal Steel :Rs 67258 cr, Tata Steel :Rs 48939 crores. Please do some paperwork to find out the absolute gains of these three companies on 23rd Nov and then compare the relative change in the combined market value of these three steel companies with respect to BSE-30 or BSE-500 : you will find the truth. My stock-forecating software is still not finished, but now it is far more reliable than it was ten days ago, because I included D9 and D2 in my stock software. -VJ ============ ==== === , sameer aggarwal <sam_agg888@ ...> wrote: > > Dear Vinay Ji, > Compliments for your prediction but part of seems to be offtrack like e.g. Tata steel was up : I have no checked the entire steel sector so maybe things might be different. As per one of your mails the upswing continues and maybe the sensex surpasses 18000 by 3rd Dec : considering that you had indicated that anuradha is at its best during this period does it signify that there would be a continuos upswing till 3rd Dec on a daily basis ?? Also would appreciate your specific reading about 24th Nov. > Regards > Sameer > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > VJha vinayjhaa16@ ... > > Sun, 22 November, 2009 7:34:40 PM > Re: StockForecast for Nov 20 & 23 > >  > Strong upswing continues at BSE on Nov 23, but relative downswing in > steel sector. > > -VJ > ============ ======== ==== > , " VJha " <vinayjhaa16@ ...> wrote: > > > > To All, > > > > I had predicted : <<<Very strong Bull at BSE on Nov 20.>>> > > > > Actual figure is : +236.2 points or +1.407% on Nov 20. > > > > Earlier, I had specified my scaling as follows : <<<0.92%, which is > > termed " significant " in my scaling. Changes of ~2% to ~3% may be > termed > > " tremendous up/down swing " , while smaller changes are termed in milder > > terms.>>> > > > > Thus, 1.4% may be termed as " very strong " , ie less than " tremendous " > and > > more than " significant " . > > > > Earlier, I paid scanty attention to D9 and D2 because my stock > > forecasting software was incomplete. But after the inclusion of these > > divisionals, my predictions have improved in accuracy. > > > > Practical testing is the criterion of truth in astrology, which some > > persons try to drown under non-astrological jargon. In an > astrological > > forum, there is no need to show one's proficiency in economics or > > business management or other subjects : members ought to concentrate > on > > pure astrology here. But Rohiniranjan Ji was right in suggesting that > > internet is not meant for anything serious. > > > > -VJ > > ============ ========= = ==== > > ============ ======== ==== > > , Vattem Krishnan bursar_99@ > > wrote: > > > > > > Dear Sirs, > > > The bulls run also is a sentiment and the correction in market > > trends.Financial markets are still not responsive along with > > manufacturing sectors.over all it is time for offloading some of the > old > > stock. > > > > > > > > > Vattem Krishnan > > > Cyber Jyotish Services > > > (For all counseling services) > > > Â > > > > > > --- On Thu, 11/19/09, VJha vinayjhaa16@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > VJha vinayjhaa16@ > > > StockForecast for Nov 20 > > > > > > Thursday, November 19, 2009, 9:56 AM > > > > > > > > > Â > > > > > > > > > > > > Very strong Bull at BSE on Nov 20. > > > > > > -VJ > > > ============ ======== == > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 Sameer Ji, I did not blame you for anything. I only want a fuller analysis from readers which will work as feedback for improving the software. Even negative feedback is useful as engineers know. At present, my main problem is proper quantification of various astrological combinations. There is no text, ancient or modern, which can help in this field. Hence, I have to work on the basis of intuition which sometimes goes wrong but proves highly correct in over 90% of cases. But even in correct cases, I or no one else cannot predict whether BSE will change by 155 or 156 points. Such accuracy is impossible at present, or perhaps even in future. But I hope to improve in this field gradually. -VJ ===================== == , sameer aggarwal <sam_agg888 wrote: > > Dear Vinay Ji, > I did mention that maybe I am wrong as I did not study the performance of the entire sector. Also I have appreciated and repeat that your prediction now is definately more close to the practical happenings that it was 2 weeks ago. I did not feel offended ( and hopefully will never do ) as I just put forward what I feel, sometime overlooking some facts, or as you said due to misinterpretation of what is predicted. > I once again compliment you for your effort devotion of your valuable time. > Best Regards > Sameer > > > > > ________________________________ > VJha <vinayjhaa16 > > Mon, 23 November, 2009 7:39:03 PM > Re: StockForecast for Nov 20 & 23 > >  > No part of my forecast was offtrack : your analysis is based on partial > data and wrong interpretation of my language (no offence intended). My > words were " ...relative downswing in steel sector " . Mind the word > " relative " , which means performance of steel sector will be weaker than > that of BSE as a whole. Tata steel showed same performance on 23 as on > previous working day (20), but SAIL showed a relative downturn which was > worse than the relative downturn of entire BSE with respect to Nov 20. > Jindal steel showed a negative performance on 23 Nov. These major > companies taken together proved my forecast to be absolutely correct : > steel sector showed an upswing in absolute terms, but with respect to > entire BSE, steel sector showed a " relative " downswing. Following is the > current market capitalization of three biggest steel companies listed at > BSE : > > SAIL :Rs 79035 cr, > Jindal Steel :Rs 67258 cr, > Tata Steel :Rs 48939 crores. > > Please do some paperwork to find out the absolute gains of these three > companies on 23rd Nov and then compare the relative change in the > combined market value of these three steel companies with respect to > BSE-30 or BSE-500 : you will find the truth. > > My stock-forecating software is still not finished, but now it is far > more reliable than it was ten days ago, because I included D9 and D2 in > my stock software. > > -VJ > ============ ==== === > , sameer aggarwal > <sam_agg888@ ...> wrote: > > > > Dear Vinay Ji, > > Compliments for your prediction but part of seems to be offtrack like > e.g. Tata steel was up : I have no checked the entire steel sector so > maybe things might be different. As per one of your mails the upswing > continues and maybe the sensex surpasses 18000 by 3rd Dec : considering > that you had indicated that anuradha is at its best during this period > does it signify that there would be a continuos upswing till 3rd Dec on > a daily basis ?? Also would appreciate your specific reading about 24th > Nov. > > Regards > > Sameer > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > VJha vinayjhaa16@ ... > > > > Sun, 22 November, 2009 7:34:40 PM > > Re: StockForecast for Nov 20 & 23 > > > >  > > Strong upswing continues at BSE on Nov 23, but relative downswing in > > steel sector. > > > > -VJ > > ============ ======== ==== > > , " VJha " <vinayjhaa16@ ...> > wrote: > > > > > > To All, > > > > > > I had predicted : <<<Very strong Bull at BSE on Nov 20.>>> > > > > > > Actual figure is : +236.2 points or +1.407% on Nov 20. > > > > > > Earlier, I had specified my scaling as follows : <<<0.92%, which is > > > termed " significant " in my scaling. Changes of ~2% to ~3% may be > > termed > > > " tremendous up/down swing " , while smaller changes are termed in > milder > > > terms.>>> > > > > > > Thus, 1.4% may be termed as " very strong " , ie less than " tremendous " > > and > > > more than " significant " . > > > > > > Earlier, I paid scanty attention to D9 and D2 because my stock > > > forecasting software was incomplete. But after the inclusion of > these > > > divisionals, my predictions have improved in accuracy. > > > > > > Practical testing is the criterion of truth in astrology, which some > > > persons try to drown under non-astrological jargon. In an > > astrological > > > forum, there is no need to show one's proficiency in economics or > > > business management or other subjects : members ought to concentrate > > on > > > pure astrology here. But Rohiniranjan Ji was right in suggesting > that > > > internet is not meant for anything serious. > > > > > > -VJ > > > ============ ========= = ==== > > > ============ ======== ==== > > > , Vattem Krishnan > bursar_99@ > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Sirs, > > > > The bulls run also is a sentiment and the correction in market > > > trends.Financial markets are still not responsive along with > > > manufacturing sectors.over all it is time for offloading some of the > > old > > > stock. > > > > > > > > > > > > Vattem Krishnan > > > > Cyber Jyotish Services > > > > (For all counseling services) > > > > Â > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 11/19/09, VJha vinayjhaa16@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > VJha vinayjhaa16@ > > > > StockForecast for Nov 20 > > > > > > > > Thursday, November 19, 2009, 9:56 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > Â > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Very strong Bull at BSE on Nov 20. > > > > > > > > -VJ > > > > ============ ======== == > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 Dear Vinay Ji, I did not take it in negative sense at all and infact read all your mails with a very positive attitude. As mentioned by you the bulls remained calm today : what about tomorrow the 25th Nov : would appreciate your opinion. Regards Sameer ________________________________ VJha <vinayjhaa16 Tue, 24 November, 2009 5:53:55 PM Re: StockForecast for Nov 20 & 23  Sameer Ji, I did not blame you for anything. I only want a fuller analysis from readers which will work as feedback for improving the software. Even negative feedback is useful as engineers know. At present, my main problem is proper quantification of various astrological combinations. There is no text, ancient or modern, which can help in this field. Hence, I have to work on the basis of intuition which sometimes goes wrong but proves highly correct in over 90% of cases. But even in correct cases, I or no one else cannot predict whether BSE will change by 155 or 156 points. Such accuracy is impossible at present, or perhaps even in future. But I hope to improve in this field gradually. -VJ ============ ========= == , sameer aggarwal <sam_agg888@ ...> wrote: > > Dear Vinay Ji, > I did mention that maybe I am wrong as I did not study the performance of the entire sector. Also I have appreciated and repeat that your prediction now is definately more close to the practical happenings that it was 2 weeks ago. I did not feel offended ( and hopefully will never do ) as I just put forward what I feel, sometime overlooking some facts, or as you said due to misinterpretation of what is predicted. > I once again compliment you for your effort devotion of your valuable time. > Best Regards > Sameer > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > VJha <vinayjhaa16@ ...> > > Mon, 23 November, 2009 7:39:03 PM > Re: StockForecast for Nov 20 & 23 > >  > No part of my forecast was offtrack : your analysis is based on partial > data and wrong interpretation of my language (no offence intended). My > words were " ...relative downswing in steel sector " . Mind the word > " relative " , which means performance of steel sector will be weaker than > that of BSE as a whole. Tata steel showed same performance on 23 as on > previous working day (20), but SAIL showed a relative downturn which was > worse than the relative downturn of entire BSE with respect to Nov 20. > Jindal steel showed a negative performance on 23 Nov. These major > companies taken together proved my forecast to be absolutely correct : > steel sector showed an upswing in absolute terms, but with respect to > entire BSE, steel sector showed a " relative " downswing. Following is the > current market capitalization of three biggest steel companies listed at > BSE : > > SAIL :Rs 79035 cr, > Jindal Steel :Rs 67258 cr, > Tata Steel :Rs 48939 crores. > > Please do some paperwork to find out the absolute gains of these three > companies on 23rd Nov and then compare the relative change in the > combined market value of these three steel companies with respect to > BSE-30 or BSE-500 : you will find the truth. > > My stock-forecating software is still not finished, but now it is far > more reliable than it was ten days ago, because I included D9 and D2 in > my stock software. > > -VJ > ============ ==== === > , sameer aggarwal > <sam_agg888@ ...> wrote: > > > > Dear Vinay Ji, > > Compliments for your prediction but part of seems to be offtrack like > e.g. Tata steel was up : I have no checked the entire steel sector so > maybe things might be different. As per one of your mails the upswing > continues and maybe the sensex surpasses 18000 by 3rd Dec : considering > that you had indicated that anuradha is at its best during this period > does it signify that there would be a continuos upswing till 3rd Dec on > a daily basis ?? Also would appreciate your specific reading about 24th > Nov. > > Regards > > Sameer > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > VJha vinayjhaa16@ ... > > > > Sun, 22 November, 2009 7:34:40 PM > > Re: StockForecast for Nov 20 & 23 > > > >  > > Strong upswing continues at BSE on Nov 23, but relative downswing in > > steel sector. > > > > -VJ > > ============ ======== ==== > > , " VJha " <vinayjhaa16@ ...> > wrote: > > > > > > To All, > > > > > > I had predicted : <<<Very strong Bull at BSE on Nov 20.>>> > > > > > > Actual figure is : +236.2 points or +1.407% on Nov 20. > > > > > > Earlier, I had specified my scaling as follows : <<<0.92%, which is > > > termed " significant " in my scaling. Changes of ~2% to ~3% may be > > termed > > > " tremendous up/down swing " , while smaller changes are termed in > milder > > > terms.>>> > > > > > > Thus, 1.4% may be termed as " very strong " , ie less than " tremendous " > > and > > > more than " significant " . > > > > > > Earlier, I paid scanty attention to D9 and D2 because my stock > > > forecasting software was incomplete. But after the inclusion of > these > > > divisionals, my predictions have improved in accuracy. > > > > > > Practical testing is the criterion of truth in astrology, which some > > > persons try to drown under non-astrological jargon. In an > > astrological > > > forum, there is no need to show one's proficiency in economics or > > > business management or other subjects : members ought to concentrate > > on > > > pure astrology here. But Rohiniranjan Ji was right in suggesting > that > > > internet is not meant for anything serious. > > > > > > -VJ > > > ============ ========= = ==== > > > ============ ======== ==== > > > , Vattem Krishnan > bursar_99@ > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Sirs, > > > > The bulls run also is a sentiment and the correction in market > > > trends.Financial markets are still not responsive along with > > > manufacturing sectors.over all it is time for offloading some of the > > old > > > stock. > > > > > > > > > > > > Vattem Krishnan > > > > Cyber Jyotish Services > > > > (For all counseling services) > > > >  > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 11/19/09, VJha vinayjhaa16@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > VJha vinayjhaa16@ > > > > StockForecast for Nov 20 > > > > > > > > Thursday, November 19, 2009, 9:56 AM > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Very strong Bull at BSE on Nov 20. > > > > > > > > -VJ > > > > ============ ======== == > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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