Guest guest Posted December 20, 2009 Report Share Posted December 20, 2009 Vinay ji, I told that you made a good effort but missed to hit the bulls eye, In Vedic Astrologyandhealing group before everybody, before weather department or any celebrity of contemporary jyotish, in very clear terms in jun 2009, it was predicted that in year 2009, India w'd have delayed but good rains, Let me predict that in 2010 also India w'd have less rains then required , however, it w'd be slightly better then 2009's scary condition, I w'd refine study in feb 2010, before that I m occupied in other projects. A reply is sent to you in personal mail id, as I feel, group is not a right place for useful discussions. Thanks, Utkal Panigrahi. ________________________________ VJha <vinayjhaa16 Sat, December 19, 2009 7:19:09 PM Re: Vedic Astrology  Utkal Ji, If you refer to my paper <http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ NASA%27s_ Report%3B_ %26_my_Paper_ ac\ cepted_by_CAOS% 2C_IISc> 'A New Approach to Rain Forecasting <http://weatherindia .wetpaint. com/page/ A+New+approach+ to+Rain+Forecast in\ g> ' , then you are correct. This paper was accepted by CAOS, Indian Institute of Science and was addressed to weather scientists. Hence, there was no question of mentionimng astrology in this paper. But if you are referring to This Page <http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ Annual+Rains> which I had mentioned in previous post, which seems more likely, then I must assert that you entertain entirely different notions of astrology. All 40 charts have been analysed strictly according to traditional rules of jyotisha, esp according to BPHS. Yet you say " Your's study about rains in india are missing the actual astrological cause, far away from truth " . If traditional method of chart analysis is beyond the scope of astrology, then I must assume you practise some non-Indian variety of astrology which has no use of accepted methods of vedic Jyotisha. But this is not the case, because you also charge of untruth ( " far away from truth " ). I have provided links for original rainfall data and if my method is biological or chemical instead of astrological, then you should provide some astrological explanation for the official rainfall data. I know you cannot, which is clear from your third statement : " Problem with such post-event analysis is, one can successfully insist on his findings whether applicable or not " Post-event analysis by me can be brushed aside as my manipulation of data or method, as you say, while pre-event predictions by me which have been tested by Climate branch of NASA headquarters in USA and IMD in India (cf. http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint.. com/page/ NASA%27s_ Report%3B_ %26_my_Paper_ acc\ epted_by_CAOS% 2C_IISc) are proofs of the veracity of my method. If you compel NASA to agree even to waste its precious time on your rain forecasts, then I will resign from Jyotisha. Sir, I know the cause of your anguish. I used JHORA for Drik-pakshiya charts. You might have imagined that I wanted to disprove JHORA. But I explicitly mentioned that I used JHORA for the following reason : " JHora software can be used for Drig-pakshiya computations (ie, based on physical astronomy). JHora uses astronomical database supplied by Swiss Ephemeris, the latter being based on NASA's JPL datasets, which are most reliable data of modern physical astronomy. A simplified software of Swiss Ephemeris can be freely downloaded by anyone, which shows half a minute errors. Hence JHora is reliable as far as physical planetary positions are concerned. " Hence, I was not biased. It is you who is biased. You portray me as an untrue non-astrologer ( " missing the actual astrological cause, far away from truth " ). Ask Jagannath Puri's Govardhana Math which is publishing panchanga prepared by me. Instead of finding any specific fault in any specific chart analysis by me, you are throwing me and my works entirely at one go, levelling uncivil charges, without even trying to provide any evidence of my faults. Hence, your charges are merely libel and not review of my work. You forget there are strich Cyber Laws for preventing libel in internet fora, and every person can be easily traced. But I will noty waste my time on such endeavours. What you consider to be " astrological cause " can be anybody's guess, but I am sure your astrology is certainly not based on what all Vedic Asgtrologers are practising. there are many astrologers who differ from me on mathematical groulds, but you are the first person who have charged my analysis of " missing the actual astrological cause, far away from truth " !! I know many persons are distorting Vedic Astrology and some of their disciples are so ill-educated by these self proclaimed gurus that they regard traditional methods as non-0astrological. As you have not clarified your asterological moorings, I do not know which school you belong to. I hope you will try to avoid insulting remarks and try to confine your comments to actual criticism of chart analysis by me or by others. If I am false, you must provide proofs, otherwise any vague charge is mere abuse. -VJ ============ ==== ==== , " utkal.panigrahi " <utkal.panigrahi@ ...> wrote: > > Sir, > > Your's study about rains in india are missing the actual astrological cause, far away from truth, however effort is good. > > Problem with such post event analysis is, one can successfully insist on his findings whether applicable of not applicable. > > regards, > Utkal > > , " VJha " vinayjhaa16@ wrote: > > > > Respected Rohini Ji, > > > > (1) > > <<<Insisting that there is a 100% perfect system which only rests on > > belief and cannot ever be demonstrated because no Human being can be > > 100% accurate! Is that what they mean when they call something a paradox > > or 'catch-22'?> >> > > > > It does not rest on belief alone. I accepted the invitation of GB > > Prashant Ji and wasted many weeks to prepare dozens of case studies > > <http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ Annual+Rains> ( > > http://jyotirvidya. wetpaint. com/page/ Annual+Rains & c) for comparing the > > ancient method (which some persons wrongly call MY method). You know > > this well. No one came forward to disprove my work. My time was wasted, > > because those who asked me to put forth evidences simply neglected to > > look at them. You are making a wrong statement ( " 100% perfect system .... > > cannot ever be demonstrated " ) : I insisted in AIA on demonstration but > > was answered with abuses. In JR I was civillay asked to demonstrate, and > > when I did so, my work was simply ignored because it made some persons > > uncomfortable, who cannot give up their own 100% perfect system. Should > > I remind you that you have faith in accuracy of your system because all > > erroneous predictions later prove to be correct during post-event > > analyses (it was your statement, and I support it, hence there is no > > need of arguing). But there is a differwence between your " perfect " > > system and mine : you work on a system due to your faith in it and > > refuse to test the alternative because the majority (according to you) > > is on your side. I do not have such a blind faith on any system. I had > > 100% faith in the applicability of physical astronomy for the sake of > > astrology, but unlike you I found that physical astronomy does not > > provide 100% accurate results even in post-event analyses. Then I > > experimented with alternatives. I made softwares along many methods > > available to me. It took me decades to resolve the issue. But if you > > imagine me to be an obscuratist bigot, I cannot and do not want to > > change your opinion. > > > > (2) > > <<< If people in Kaliyuga, mostly sinners by your understanding. ..>>> > > > > I did not write Indian scriptures and ancient texts of Vedic Astrology > > which you use. Most of persons in Kaliyuga are sinners according to > > ancient texts, and you know this very well. I wonder why you are wasting > > your time in twisting arguments for making fool of me. It is only during > > the Modern Age that these sinners have attained sufficient majority and > > boldness to declare ancients as idiots or at least under-developed > > because they preached sanyaasa, daana, indriya-nigraha, brahmacharya, > > etc. > > > > Sage Parashara did not create only Ashtakavarga for Kaliyuga, but all > > his works were for Kaliyuga, because he wrote at the fag end of > > Dvaapar-yuga. Kaliyuga can be saved from perdition only by following > > Sage Parashara (again, it is not my personal opinion alone, cf : Kalau > > Parashara Smrtau). > > > > I know you are a benevolent person basically, but sometimes you become > > harsh unknowingly. Now, I must declare one thing which I had never > > mentioned : I made Kundalee Software in 2005, but deliberately kept it > > away from internet till late 2008. During that interval, I distributed > > it through CDs , mainly in UP, Bihar, Chhattisgarh, etc, avoiding cities > > like Delhi where educated persons could not tolerate the mention of > > Suryasiddhanta due to prolonged propaganda against it. AIA invited me, > > but consistently refused to test my work empirically. Same thing > > happened in JR too, although here I was never abused. GB Prashant Ji > > was very enthusistic initially when he thought demonstration of case > > studies by me will give others a chance to test my work. But members > > here could not find time to review my work which wasted many weeks. > > > > You have earlier charged me of evangelicism. I never wished to convert > > others to my system (in 2005, I wrote in my Hindi book that it is > > impossible to popularize a siddhanta of Satayuga in Kaliyuga). I made a > > software and presented it freely to others. That is all I had to do. It > > is for others to decide which system they like. But some persons started > > a war against me. It is undemocratic and unethical. Moreover, it is > > impossible to choke a voice merely by means of abusing. > > > > (3) > > In previous post, I deliberately avoided to call MY system as perfect > > which gave you so much pain. I simply said a perfect system exists. You > > had also claimed that post-event analyses prove to be correct, which > > shows your full faith in perfection of Jyotisha (but I know you cannot > > prove all post-event analyses to be perfect by your method : I can > > demonstrate it empirically if you have time. I know you are too busy to > > waste your time on such topics). > > > > Now, let us forget these useless topics which you should not have > > raised. You know I am now gradually leaving all internet fora. Instead > > of bickring over perfection of my or your system, can you ponder over > > questions whether there are 16 or 60 vargas, which dashaa should be used > > for what purpose, etc. It will better suit your genius. You are a fine > > astrologer : your field is Phalita and I value your contribution to > > Phalita Jyotisha. My main field was Ganita Jyotisha, but I devoted years > > in Phalita researches too. If you concentrate on your work in Phalita it > > will be good for all of us. Ganita Jyotisha cannot and should not be > > discussed on internet. It is an obscure subject ( " rahasyam Brahma > > samjnitam " ). Ganita Jyotisha of Suryasiddhanta cannot be proven by means > > of empirical observation of planets. Its only proof is accuracy of > > Phalita. GB Prashantr Ji did well to ask me to demonstrate. I did so. > > The manner in which you and others ignored to comment on my > > demonstrations did not disencourage me, because I had anticipated such a > > response. But now I am really surprized at your comment that my system > > cannot be demonstrated. I demonstrated it, and can do so again, but I > > know you will ignore it again.. > > > > I had renounced all my paternal property due to my personal ashrama, but > > I had kept a house aquired by my late mother for my sustenance. I am > > selling it now, for buying latest softwares which can allow me to make > > more user friendly programs. At present, I make softwares on Visual > > Basic- 6.0 which is 12 years old and creates problems in installations > > on later operating systems. It is a deliberate fault of Mircosoft that > > its Visual Basic- 6.0 does not work on all operating systems made > > bythge same company. The reaon is selling of newer versions by MS. I can > > not charge any fees for my astrological consultancy or software, hence I > > must sell my house. I do not know how I will sustain myself later, but I > > know I will face no difficulty : my horoscope says so. You may deem me > > to be a fool. > > > > (4) > > <<< from what I have heard from you a very accomplished. ..>>> > > > > I had to 'brag' about by accomplishments AFTER a dedicated team started > > shouting at me in a , refusing to test my method empirically. > > Why you did not enquire from those institutions which tested me before > > recognizing my works, before declaring that I advertize myself as an > > accomplished person ? > > > > You expelled me from your group withou any explicit reason and without > > informng or warning me, although I never argued for or against any > > system in your group and did not raise any serious issue because you > > told me that you did not want to discuss anything serious with me unless > > and until some relatives of Lord Macaulay accept my obscurantist ideas. > > > > If some of my words are harsh, please forgive me. I have no desire to > > convert you. What I really want is that you must test your system more > > thoroughly and give more of you to the public at large. > > > > I did not want to raise any debate on any particular system because I > > found memebers are not interested in reviewing case studies from me. I > > know the reason. Presently, the planets of MD and AD in my chart have > > bitter enmical aspect on 10th house, hence I will not be recognized by > > the majority even if my work is good. Hence, I cannot blame others. > > > > -VJ > > ============ ========= == === > > > > , " rohinicrystal " > > <jyotish_vani@ > wrote: > > > > > > Dear Vinay_jee, > > > > > > You are a very intelligent, well-read and from what I have heard from > > you a very accomplished (intellectually, and spiritually) being, so now > > I am a bit confused or at least taken aback when you now write: > > > > > > " No mortal can consistently make 100% correct predictions, even if all > > mathematical tables and charts are correctl;y drawn either manually or > > by means of computer. It is because of the amount and complexity of > > secondary data. But 100% correct method is already present in Jyotisha. > > > > > > This method, however, cannot become universally popular because a > > large majority of people in Kaliyuga do not deserve it. My personal > > experience is that I fail to make correct predictions for those who are > > great sinners, God helps me in making good predictions only when the > > Jaataka is pious enough. " > > > > > > Then why worry about: > > > > > > 1. Insisting that there is a 100% perfect system which only rests on > > belief and cannot ever be demonstrated because no Human being can be > > 100% accurate! Is that what they mean when they call something a paradox > > or 'catch-22'? > > > > > > AND... > > > > > > 2.. If people in Kaliyuga, mostly sinners by your understanding do not > > DESERVE to have their horoscopes read and deciphered and so on, why did > > Parashara specifically create this elaborate system called Ashtakavarga > > and specifically dedicate it and gift it to Kaliyugis? OR perhaps it was > > an intrusion into the Holy Original Version of BPHS by some > > " Latter-Day- Saint? " , borrowing the term from a religious sect? > > > > > > What am I missing, in the logic that is being discussed here....? > > > > > > Rohiniranjan > > > > > > > > > , " VJha " vinayjhaa16@ wrote: > > > > > > > > The Middle Path of Buddha is misinterpreted by those who hate the > > Vedic > > > > path consisting of Tapasya, Brahmacharya, Indriyanigraha, etc, > > which > > > > was followed by The Buddha himself. The Buddha was himself a great > > > > Tapasvi. But The Buddha had said that his true preaching will be > > lost > > > > after five centuries. During post Christian centries, most of the > > > > Bhikshus in caves built with royal money entertained themselves with > > > > paintings and sculptures of semi-naked women. This was not the > > original > > > > Middle Path. > > > > > > > > Gita also extols the virtues of Tapa but forbids undue mortification > > of > > > > body. This is real Middle Path. Middle path is not half sin and > > half > > > > virtue, or half glass of wine in half glass of milk, or making > > paintings > > > > of women half naked and half clad. > > > > > > > > No mortal can consistently make 100% correct predictions, even if > > all > > > > mathematical tables and charts are correctl;y drawn either manually > > or > > > > by means of computer. It is because of the amount and complexity of > > > > secondary data. But 100% correct method is already present in > > Jyotisha. > > > > This method, however, cannot become universally popular because a > > large > > > > majority of people in Kaliyuga do not deserve it.. My personal > > experience > > > > is that I fail to make correct predictions for those who are great > > > > sinners, God helps me in making good predictions only when the > > Jaataka > > > > is pious enough. > > > > > > > > -VJ > > > > ============ ===== ==== > > > > , Vattem Krishnan > > <bursar_99@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Friend, > > > > > SUch message are not very uncommon as mentioned by Shri Sursh > > > > Ji.What however is to cite at the end of the message of > > Lord > > > >  Buddhaa's preaching and it's relevance. > > > > > Even If I concur with whole or part of your endeavour how in the > > topic > > > > you thought fit to suggest: "  As Lord Buddha had always advised a > > > > person must take the middle path. " > > > > > There are many seers and sages b4 and after Buddha suggested to > > avoid > > > > extreemities( too much faith and no faith,reliable, not relaible etc) > > > > > Many would like to say YES for vedic astrology in what ever it can > > > > help and guide for many reasons. > > > > > peopl say no dut to misguidance and ignorance. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vattem Krishnan > > > > > Cyber Jyotish Services > > > > > (For all counseling services) > > > > > Dr.B.V.Raman " Fools Obey Planets While  Wisemen Can Control > > > > Them " > > > > > Planets are neutral Controllers of Mans Karma > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 12/17/09, Suresh Babu.A.G sureshbabuag@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Suresh Babu.A.G sureshbabuag@ > > > > > Re: Vedic Astrology... .Yes or No > > > > > > > > > > Thursday, December 17, 2009, 2:17 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear xtecc1109, > > > > > > > > > > A very good article and repeated several times over, and sounding > > like > > > > the predictions of weather departments - may or may not rain - so > > you > > > > may carry an umbrella or not choose to, it is upto you. > > > > > > > > > > Such messages are a common " thing " on the internet and do not > > require > > > > much intelligence to copy & paste and may be prune a little. We also > > do > > > > find a lot of people around us who hold such views. > > > > > > > > > > It is perhaps the english usage of the word " Astrology " that > > > > confuses you. If you understand the real essence of the original > > term > > > > " jyotisha " which is " Jyoti " + " ksha " meaning - a light for the eyes > > to > > > > see in the dark, a small beckon, that will help you in times of > > > > darkness,  it will not be that confusing. However, to > > understand > > > > the implication of the what essence means, one may have to go > > through > > > > such dark times once or twice in their life time, to know how > > dreadfull > > > > it is. It is only a starved person can tell what hunger is. > > But > > > > a person with a little knowledge of any language can write large > > > > scripts, without touching base, pushing others far deeper into > > > > comfusions. > > > > > > > > > > Before commenting to the above, sit back and think deeper, how > > far > > > > it is going to help others who are groping in the darkness and > > > > perplexed without knowing what to do.     > > > > > > > > > > Thank you for such En lightning message  > > > > > Perhaps you can stop the confusion by throwing some of that light > > on > > > > your real name and what you are - to be honest > > > > > A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > > > xtec1109 xtec1109 > > > > > > > > > > > Thu, December 17, 2009 12:00:25 PM > > > > > Vedic Astrology... .Yes or No > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > This article doesn't meant to hurt anybody here.Just hope everbody > > > > will get clearer picture about astrology.Many view astrology > > negatively. > > > > > > > > > > If you ask me whether there is an effect from that red colour > > light on > > > > a person's life my answer is both " yes " and " no " . No, because it is > > just > > > > a light. Yes, because it indicates a bad period to cross. But if you > > > > attribute a godly character to the traffic light pole and starts > > > > worshipping it or think that there is a mystery in it. Then it is > > the > > > > lack of true knowledge and understanding. That is why, about 2500 > > years > > > > ago Lord Buddha said " Kim Karrisatthi Taraka ? " What stars can do ? > > It > > > > is not stars doing any thing to you.. It is your own actions and the > > > > reactions of past actions (Karmas) are shaping your destiny. Your > > true > > > > savior is none but yourself as it is your duty to steer your life on > > the > > > > correct path. > > > > > > > > > > Possible or impossible ?(limits of human understanding ) > > > > > > > > > > Please note that, though the debate on the existence of all > > powerful > > > > almighty one creator being as such is out of the context of this > > subject > > > > of discussion, I do not exclude the possibility of that there could > > be > > > > (Now we call them as ET's and those days Deities or Angels) highly > > > > evolved powerful entities (and also some lowly evolved but powerful > > > > entities ) in other dimensions or worlds. A true scientist will > > never > > > > ridicule any possibility. However it may look impossible. Remember, > > that > > > > a few decades back prominent scientists of the time said, it is > > > > impossible for an aero plane to take off the ground as it is heavier > > > > than the air. Compared with the vastness and the complexity of the > > > > universe, what we have discovered and rationally understood is > > similar > > > > to a grain of sand. If you find something mysterious or something > > which > > > > is hard to explain, that does not mean it is not happening or it is > > > > impossible to happen. But that means our current understanding, > > > > > senses, knowledge and the instruments are not yet developed enough > > to > > > > detect, measure and understand the phenomenon. > > > > > > > > > > As same as in Meteorology, in Astrology also, there is no definite > > > > saying. Because many things can not be told hundred present > > accurately. > > > > As I said in the previous example, even when the green light is > > shining > > > > you can not give a hundred present guarantee of safe passage as > > > > accidents may occur due to various other reasons. Life is a very > > complex > > > > thing many influencing factors are taking part during the course of > > a > > > > persons life It is dynamic, constantly changing just like clouds and > > > > weather patterns. > > > > > > > > > > Only a divine entity or God can predict for 100% accuracy about > > the > > > > course of a life of a person. No being born as a human (except a > > Buddha > > > > - The meaning of word Buddha itself is the highest of higher human > > > > intellect) can predict with 100% surety about course of a life of a > > > > person. > > > > > > > > > > Because a persons life is governed by Karma and so complex the > > karmas > > > > are it is difficult to fully comprehend by a person with ordinary > > > > intellect. > > > > > > > > > > With respect, I must mention that, even Maha Irshies were not able > > to > > > > do it fully. That is why the ancient texts written by different > > Irshies, > > > > though not always but sometimes suggest different methods or > > > > interpretations in regard to the same thing. For an example in > > regard to > > > > Planetary periods or Dashas, there are a number of methods > > suggested, > > > > Ashthoothari, Vimshotharri, Yogini etc.. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks to the works of Irshis and Sages and all the other scholars > > of > > > > the of the past, about 75 - 80 % degree of accuracy of predictions > > can > > > > be achieved by a good astrologer at present, if more than that, the > > rest > > > > is pure chance. (If anybody says he can do better than that and can > > > > always give 100% correct predictions, then he is not an astrologer > > but a > > > > new Buddha. Apart from the Gauthama the Buddha for this " Kalpha " or > > the > > > > epoch, an another additional Buddha had seems to be some how > > appeared on > > > > earth). > > > > > > > > > > No good astrologer who is honest and who knows the subject of > > > > astrology well and has a reputation to protect will never mislead > > people > > > > who do not know astrology and dare to say that he or she can give > > > > perfect 100% accurate predictions. > > > > > > > > > > It is as same as that, even for a vehicle which is just out of the > > > > production line, a good master engineer will never give a 100% > > > > guarantee, say to cross a desert alone and without taking any spare > > > > parts. Because he knows very well what many things can go wrong and > > how > > > > many brand new vehicles had been recalled due to various defects. > > But at > > > > the same time a foolish driver who may even do not know how to > > change a > > > > plug, due to his foolishness may take the risk of crossing the > > desert or > > > > even declare the exact time he will arrive at the destination. > > > > > > > > > > Since the Astrology is the only tool an ordinary human being has, > > to > > > > interpret the Quality and the quantity of Karmas an individual > > posses, > > > > Astrology should be treated with respect. Even though it's accuracy > > is > > > > not always 100%. But nobody should center his life on Astrology > > alone. > > > > Nor reject astrology totally. As Lord Buddha had always advised a > > person > > > > must take the middle path. > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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