Guest guest Posted January 15, 2010 Report Share Posted January 15, 2010 Okay, let us talk about astrology for a change, dear *Astrologers*! With newer and newer information coming in and some rather elegant articles shared freely and widely by P.V.R. Narasimha Rao (Wonderful Gentleman!) and others we now have the following considerations: Whole rashi does not work well, so some have gone to using Chalit but maintained the rising degree as the reference mid-point of a house. Narasimha, if I understood correctly, recently advocated placing the degree at the beginning (cusp) of a house, just as KP does and Western Astrologers have unwaveringly followed! Also Narasimha has introduced the concept of using degrees in finer vargas in a proportionate manner to the Kshetra/Rashi varga. And why not? KP, after all has used the same 'analogy' in a sense! And even before KP, isn't that 'proportionation' the very basis for calculating bhuktis from dashas, antharas from bhuktis? And his very recently revealed Jagannath ayanamsha which is based on his observations and he has written about it with lots of examples. He has brilliantly introduced many similar changes in the framework of jyotish (including new and way finer vargas than earlier available -- and has always graciously provided the TOOL for free to enable those who wish, to adopt his methodologies and test those etc. Of course, adopting to his recommendations would mean a HUGE SEA-CHANGE in the modern practice of JYOTISH! Many astrologers are still using comparatively rather crude methodology such as whole sign as house, ayanamshas which he calls are " arbitrary " or 'empirical' (based on observation and personal experiences and experimentation etc). Comments, personal experiences and experimentations, dear friends? And please relax, most of us are mature enough to not tread on the frail, fragile, SHY, introverts amongst us. I promise to be very gentle, as long as you are serious and sincere in your sharing!! ;-) Rohiniranjan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2010 Report Share Posted January 15, 2010 Dear Rohini ji, Just to put record straight, It is not a new theory nor it is P.V.R.Narashimha Rao's It is good old classical reference. When we use " Udaya " for the Lagna - That one rise, the same is extended to the next bhava as well and the next etc. It is an implied phenomena. Classicals has made several references to " bhavodaya " - meaning the rising of Bhava just like lagna. In kerala we have been using these for timming of events during Ashtamangala prashna etc. A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy ________________________________ rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani Fri, January 15, 2010 8:24:47 AM YOU WANT ASTROLOGY, EH...?  Okay, let us talk about astrology for a change, dear *Astrologers* ! With newer and newer information coming in and some rather elegant articles shared freely and widely by P.V.R. Narasimha Rao (Wonderful Gentleman!) and others we now have the following considerations: Whole rashi does not work well, so some have gone to using Chalit but maintained the rising degree as the reference mid-point of a house. Narasimha, if I understood correctly, recently advocated placing the degree at the beginning (cusp) of a house, just as KP does and Western Astrologers have unwaveringly followed! Also Narasimha has introduced the concept of using degrees in finer vargas in a proportionate manner to the Kshetra/Rashi varga. And why not? KP, after all has used the same 'analogy' in a sense! And even before KP, isn't that 'proportionation' the very basis for calculating bhuktis from dashas, antharas from bhuktis? And his very recently revealed Jagannath ayanamsha which is based on his observations and he has written about it with lots of examples. He has brilliantly introduced many similar changes in the framework of jyotish (including new and way finer vargas than earlier available -- and has always graciously provided the TOOL for free to enable those who wish, to adopt his methodologies and test those etc. Of course, adopting to his recommendations would mean a HUGE SEA-CHANGE in the modern practice of JYOTISH! Many astrologers are still using comparatively rather crude methodology such as whole sign as house, ayanamshas which he calls are " arbitrary " or 'empirical' (based on observation and personal experiences and experimentation etc). Comments, personal experiences and experimentations, dear friends? And please relax, most of us are mature enough to not tread on the frail, fragile, SHY, introverts amongst us. I promise to be very gentle, as long as you are serious and sincere in your sharing!! ;-) Rohiniranjan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2010 Report Share Posted January 15, 2010 Thanks! So, if I am understanding correctly, if in a chart Leo 19 deg is rising, Shenoy ji would use Leo 19 to Virgo 19 as the first house (or the Porphyrii-Sripati approximation? And if Venus in that chart is in 13 degree Virgo, Shenoy ji would consider that chart as one where debilitated venus is rising (obviously with no standard factors cancelling the debility?). Am I understanding your position, correctly? :-) I had been talking to AMMA too much this evening, so just giving a shake to my head to shake off the cob-webs and making sure that I understand you accurately! :-) RR , " Suresh Babu.A.G " <sureshbabuag wrote: > > Dear Rohini ji, > > Just to put record straight, It is not a new theory nor it is P.V.R.Narashimha Rao's > > It is good old classical reference. > > When we use " Udaya " for the Lagna - That one rise, the same is extended to the next bhava as well and the next etc. > > It is an implied phenomena. Classicals has made several references to " bhavodaya " - meaning the rising of Bhava just like lagna. > > In kerala we have been using these for timming of events during Ashtamangala prashna etc. > A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy > > > > > ________________________________ > rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani > > Fri, January 15, 2010 8:24:47 AM > YOU WANT ASTROLOGY, EH...? > >  > Okay, let us talk about astrology for a change, dear *Astrologers* ! > > With newer and newer information coming in and some rather elegant articles shared freely and widely by P.V.R. Narasimha Rao (Wonderful Gentleman!) and others we now have the following considerations: > > Whole rashi does not work well, so some have gone to using Chalit but maintained the rising degree as the reference mid-point of a house. Narasimha, if I understood correctly, recently advocated placing the degree at the beginning (cusp) of a house, just as KP does and Western Astrologers have unwaveringly followed! > > Also Narasimha has introduced the concept of using degrees in finer vargas in a proportionate manner to the Kshetra/Rashi varga. And why not? KP, after all has used the same 'analogy' in a sense! And even before KP, isn't that 'proportionation' the very basis for calculating bhuktis from dashas, antharas from bhuktis? > > And his very recently revealed Jagannath ayanamsha which is based on his observations and he has written about it with lots of examples. > > He has brilliantly introduced many similar changes in the framework of jyotish (including new and way finer vargas than earlier available -- and has always graciously provided the TOOL for free to enable those who wish, to adopt his methodologies and test those etc. > > Of course, adopting to his recommendations would mean a HUGE SEA-CHANGE in the modern practice of JYOTISH! Many astrologers are still using comparatively rather crude methodology such as whole sign as house, ayanamshas which he calls are " arbitrary " or 'empirical' (based on observation and personal experiences and experimentation etc). > > Comments, personal experiences and experimentations, dear friends? And please relax, most of us are mature enough to not tread on the frail, fragile, SHY, introverts amongst us. I promise to be very gentle, as long as you are serious and sincere in your sharing!! ;-) > > Rohiniranjan > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2010 Report Share Posted January 15, 2010 //if in a chart Leo 19 deg is rising, Shenoy ji would use Leo 19 to Virgo 19 as the first house (or the Porphyrii-Sripati approximation? // True //And if Venus in that chart is in 13 degree Virgo, Shenoy ji would consider that chart as one where debilitated venus is rising (obviously with no standard factors cancelling the debility?). // At this point, It requires carefull handling. Technicaly, 13 deg virgo lies within the 1st bhava. Deep debilation of venus occurs at 27 deg Virgo which, is in 2nd bhava. Care should be taken when mixing the bhava position & rasi. No doubt you know it very well, But have seen many others mixing both unconditionly. Now you have another set of division of bhava A) rasi based B) common bhava chalit based on equal division taking Udaya as center point C) Udaya as starting point The usage of the third (this discussion) is mostly in areas where we want to find the date / timming of events pertaining to each bhava. Consider the Star in which bhava rises. This star & its lord is important and may have a role in the factors that decide the time of the event. For ex: one marriage could be on a day on which the star of the 7th house rises or the day's kalahora lord is the lord of that star. This assumes greater weighteage if that lord is also a deciding factor in the scheme of marriage. After all this what makes astrology a complex subject.    A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy ________________________________ rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani Fri, January 15, 2010 9:17:13 AM Re: YOU WANT ASTROLOGY, EH...?  Thanks! So, if I am understanding correctly, if in a chart Leo 19 deg is rising, Shenoy ji would use Leo 19 to Virgo 19 as the first house (or the Porphyrii-Sripati approximation? And if Venus in that chart is in 13 degree Virgo, Shenoy ji would consider that chart as one where debilitated venus is rising (obviously with no standard factors cancelling the debility?). Am I understanding your position, correctly? :-) I had been talking to AMMA too much this evening, so just giving a shake to my head to shake off the cob-webs and making sure that I understand you accurately! :-) RR , " Suresh Babu.A.G " <sureshbabuag@ ...> wrote: > > Dear Rohini ji, > > Just to put record straight, It is not a new theory nor it is P.V.R.Narashimha Rao's > > It is good old classical reference. > > When we use " Udaya " for the Lagna - That one rise, the same is extended to the next bhava as well and the next etc. > > It is an implied phenomena. Classicals has made several references to " bhavodaya " - meaning the rising of Bhava just like lagna. > > In kerala we have been using these for timming of events during Ashtamangala prashna etc. > A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani@ ...> > > Fri, January 15, 2010 8:24:47 AM > YOU WANT ASTROLOGY, EH...? > >  > Okay, let us talk about astrology for a change, dear *Astrologers* ! > > With newer and newer information coming in and some rather elegant articles shared freely and widely by P.V.R. Narasimha Rao (Wonderful Gentleman!) and others we now have the following considerations: > > Whole rashi does not work well, so some have gone to using Chalit but maintained the rising degree as the reference mid-point of a house. Narasimha, if I understood correctly, recently advocated placing the degree at the beginning (cusp) of a house, just as KP does and Western Astrologers have unwaveringly followed! > > Also Narasimha has introduced the concept of using degrees in finer vargas in a proportionate manner to the Kshetra/Rashi varga. And why not? KP, after all has used the same 'analogy' in a sense! And even before KP, isn't that 'proportionation' the very basis for calculating bhuktis from dashas, antharas from bhuktis? > > And his very recently revealed Jagannath ayanamsha which is based on his observations and he has written about it with lots of examples. > > He has brilliantly introduced many similar changes in the framework of jyotish (including new and way finer vargas than earlier available -- and has always graciously provided the TOOL for free to enable those who wish, to adopt his methodologies and test those etc. > > Of course, adopting to his recommendations would mean a HUGE SEA-CHANGE in the modern practice of JYOTISH! Many astrologers are still using comparatively rather crude methodology such as whole sign as house, ayanamshas which he calls are " arbitrary " or 'empirical' (based on observation and personal experiences and experimentation etc). > > Comments, personal experiences and experimentations, dear friends? And please relax, most of us are mature enough to not tread on the frail, fragile, SHY, introverts amongst us. I promise to be very gentle, as long as you are serious and sincere in your sharing!! ;-) > > Rohiniranjan > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2010 Report Share Posted January 15, 2010 // It is good old classical reference.// i read this and on being told by shri Suresh ji.Like this lot many for us to know.Thanx to Shri Suresh Ji.A befitting reference and good insight. > Vattem Krishnan Cyber Jyotish Services (For all counseling services) Dr.B.V.Raman " Fools Obey Planets While  Wisemen Can Control Them " Planets are neutral Controllers of Mans Karma  --- On Thu, 1/14/10, rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani wrote: rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani Re: YOU WANT ASTROLOGY, EH...? Thursday, January 14, 2010, 10:47 PM  Thanks! So, if I am understanding correctly, if in a chart Leo 19 deg is rising, Shenoy ji would use Leo 19 to Virgo 19 as the first house (or the Porphyrii-Sripati approximation? And if Venus in that chart is in 13 degree Virgo, Shenoy ji would consider that chart as one where debilitated venus is rising (obviously with no standard factors cancelling the debility?). Am I understanding your position, correctly? :-) I had been talking to AMMA too much this evening, so just giving a shake to my head to shake off the cob-webs and making sure that I understand you accurately! :-) RR , " Suresh Babu.A.G " <sureshbabuag@ ...> wrote: > > Dear Rohini ji, > > Just to put record straight, It is not a new theory nor it is P.V.R.Narashimha Rao's > > It is good old classical reference. > > When we use " Udaya " for the Lagna - That one rise, the same is extended to the next bhava as well and the next etc. > > It is an implied phenomena. Classicals has made several references to " bhavodaya " - meaning the rising of Bhava just like lagna. > > In kerala we have been using these for timming of events during Ashtamangala prashna etc. > A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani@ ...> > > Fri, January 15, 2010 8:24:47 AM > YOU WANT ASTROLOGY, EH...? > >  > Okay, let us talk about astrology for a change, dear *Astrologers* ! > > With newer and newer information coming in and some rather elegant articles shared freely and widely by P.V.R. Narasimha Rao (Wonderful Gentleman!) and others we now have the following considerations: > > Whole rashi does not work well, so some have gone to using Chalit but maintained the rising degree as the reference mid-point of a house. Narasimha, if I understood correctly, recently advocated placing the degree at the beginning (cusp) of a house, just as KP does and Western Astrologers have unwaveringly followed! > > Also Narasimha has introduced the concept of using degrees in finer vargas in a proportionate manner to the Kshetra/Rashi varga. And why not? KP, after all has used the same 'analogy' in a sense! And even before KP, isn't that 'proportionation' the very basis for calculating bhuktis from dashas, antharas from bhuktis? > > And his very recently revealed Jagannath ayanamsha which is based on his observations and he has written about it with lots of examples. > > He has brilliantly introduced many similar changes in the framework of jyotish (including new and way finer vargas than earlier available -- and has always graciously provided the TOOL for free to enable those who wish, to adopt his methodologies and test those etc. > > Of course, adopting to his recommendations would mean a HUGE SEA-CHANGE in the modern practice of JYOTISH! Many astrologers are still using comparatively rather crude methodology such as whole sign as house, ayanamshas which he calls are " arbitrary " or 'empirical' (based on observation and personal experiences and experimentation etc). > > Comments, personal experiences and experimentations, dear friends? And please relax, most of us are mature enough to not tread on the frail, fragile, SHY, introverts amongst us. I promise to be very gentle, as long as you are serious and sincere in your sharing!! ;-) > > Rohiniranjan > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2010 Report Share Posted January 15, 2010 Dear Krishna Ji, In fact you must be thanking Rohini Ji to have brought up this subject. regardsA.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy ________________________________ Vattem Krishnan <bursar_99 Fri, January 15, 2010 10:46:33 AM Re: YOU WANT ASTROLOGY, EH...?  // It is good old classical reference.// i read this and on being told by shri Suresh ji.Like this lot many for us to know.Thanx to Shri Suresh Ji.A befitting reference and good insight. > Vattem Krishnan Cyber Jyotish Services (For all counseling services) Dr.B.V.Raman " Fools Obey Planets While  Wisemen Can Control Them " Planets are neutral Controllers of Mans Karma  --- On Thu, 1/14/10, rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani@ hotmail.com> wrote: rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani@ hotmail.com> Re: YOU WANT ASTROLOGY, EH...? Thursday, January 14, 2010, 10:47 PM  Thanks! So, if I am understanding correctly, if in a chart Leo 19 deg is rising, Shenoy ji would use Leo 19 to Virgo 19 as the first house (or the Porphyrii-Sripati approximation? And if Venus in that chart is in 13 degree Virgo, Shenoy ji would consider that chart as one where debilitated venus is rising (obviously with no standard factors cancelling the debility?). Am I understanding your position, correctly? :-) I had been talking to AMMA too much this evening, so just giving a shake to my head to shake off the cob-webs and making sure that I understand you accurately! :-) RR , " Suresh Babu.A.G " <sureshbabuag@ ...> wrote: > > Dear Rohini ji, > > Just to put record straight, It is not a new theory nor it is P.V.R.Narashimha Rao's > > It is good old classical reference. > > When we use " Udaya " for the Lagna - That one rise, the same is extended to the next bhava as well and the next etc. > > It is an implied phenomena. Classicals has made several references to " bhavodaya " - meaning the rising of Bhava just like lagna. > > In kerala we have been using these for timming of events during Ashtamangala prashna etc. > A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani@ ...> > > Fri, January 15, 2010 8:24:47 AM > YOU WANT ASTROLOGY, EH...? > >  > Okay, let us talk about astrology for a change, dear *Astrologers* ! > > With newer and newer information coming in and some rather elegant articles shared freely and widely by P.V.R. Narasimha Rao (Wonderful Gentleman!) and others we now have the following considerations: > > Whole rashi does not work well, so some have gone to using Chalit but maintained the rising degree as the reference mid-point of a house. Narasimha, if I understood correctly, recently advocated placing the degree at the beginning (cusp) of a house, just as KP does and Western Astrologers have unwaveringly followed! > > Also Narasimha has introduced the concept of using degrees in finer vargas in a proportionate manner to the Kshetra/Rashi varga. And why not? KP, after all has used the same 'analogy' in a sense! And even before KP, isn't that 'proportionation' the very basis for calculating bhuktis from dashas, antharas from bhuktis? > > And his very recently revealed Jagannath ayanamsha which is based on his observations and he has written about it with lots of examples. > > He has brilliantly introduced many similar changes in the framework of jyotish (including new and way finer vargas than earlier available -- and has always graciously provided the TOOL for free to enable those who wish, to adopt his methodologies and test those etc. > > Of course, adopting to his recommendations would mean a HUGE SEA-CHANGE in the modern practice of JYOTISH! Many astrologers are still using comparatively rather crude methodology such as whole sign as house, ayanamshas which he calls are " arbitrary " or 'empirical' (based on observation and personal experiences and experimentation etc). > > Comments, personal experiences and experimentations, dear friends? And please relax, most of us are mature enough to not tread on the frail, fragile, SHY, introverts amongst us. I promise to be very gentle, as long as you are serious and sincere in your sharing!! ;-) > > Rohiniranjan > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2010 Report Share Posted January 15, 2010 Right RRji!Good in making Padma vyuha.might have thought me as Abhimanyu. Vattem Krishnan Cyber Jyotish Services (For all counseling services) Dr.B.V.Raman " Fools Obey Planets While  Wisemen Can Control Them " Planets are neutral Controllers of Mans Karma  --- On Fri, 1/15/10, Suresh Babu.A.G <sureshbabuag wrote: Suresh Babu.A.G <sureshbabuag Re: YOU WANT ASTROLOGY, EH...? Friday, January 15, 2010, 12:31 AM  Dear Krishna Ji, In fact you must be thanking Rohini Ji to have brought up this subject. regardsA.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy ____________ _________ _________ __ Vattem Krishnan <bursar_99 > Fri, January 15, 2010 10:46:33 AM Re: YOU WANT ASTROLOGY, EH...?  // It is good old classical reference.// i read this and on being told by shri Suresh ji.Like this lot many for us to know.Thanx to Shri Suresh Ji.A befitting reference and good insight. > Vattem Krishnan Cyber Jyotish Services (For all counseling services) Dr.B.V.Raman " Fools Obey Planets While  Wisemen Can Control Them " Planets are neutral Controllers of Mans Karma  --- On Thu, 1/14/10, rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani@ hotmail.com> wrote: rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani@ hotmail.com> Re: YOU WANT ASTROLOGY, EH...? Thursday, January 14, 2010, 10:47 PM  Thanks! So, if I am understanding correctly, if in a chart Leo 19 deg is rising, Shenoy ji would use Leo 19 to Virgo 19 as the first house (or the Porphyrii-Sripati approximation? And if Venus in that chart is in 13 degree Virgo, Shenoy ji would consider that chart as one where debilitated venus is rising (obviously with no standard factors cancelling the debility?). Am I understanding your position, correctly? :-) I had been talking to AMMA too much this evening, so just giving a shake to my head to shake off the cob-webs and making sure that I understand you accurately! :-) RR , " Suresh Babu.A.G " <sureshbabuag@ ...> wrote: > > Dear Rohini ji, > > Just to put record straight, It is not a new theory nor it is P.V.R.Narashimha Rao's > > It is good old classical reference. > > When we use " Udaya " for the Lagna - That one rise, the same is extended to the next bhava as well and the next etc. > > It is an implied phenomena. Classicals has made several references to " bhavodaya " - meaning the rising of Bhava just like lagna. > > In kerala we have been using these for timming of events during Ashtamangala prashna etc. > A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani@ ...> > > Fri, January 15, 2010 8:24:47 AM > YOU WANT ASTROLOGY, EH...? > >  > Okay, let us talk about astrology for a change, dear *Astrologers* ! > > With newer and newer information coming in and some rather elegant articles shared freely and widely by P.V.R. Narasimha Rao (Wonderful Gentleman!) and others we now have the following considerations: > > Whole rashi does not work well, so some have gone to using Chalit but maintained the rising degree as the reference mid-point of a house. Narasimha, if I understood correctly, recently advocated placing the degree at the beginning (cusp) of a house, just as KP does and Western Astrologers have unwaveringly followed! > > Also Narasimha has introduced the concept of using degrees in finer vargas in a proportionate manner to the Kshetra/Rashi varga. And why not? KP, after all has used the same 'analogy' in a sense! And even before KP, isn't that 'proportionation' the very basis for calculating bhuktis from dashas, antharas from bhuktis? > > And his very recently revealed Jagannath ayanamsha which is based on his observations and he has written about it with lots of examples. > > He has brilliantly introduced many similar changes in the framework of jyotish (including new and way finer vargas than earlier available -- and has always graciously provided the TOOL for free to enable those who wish, to adopt his methodologies and test those etc. > > Of course, adopting to his recommendations would mean a HUGE SEA-CHANGE in the modern practice of JYOTISH! Many astrologers are still using comparatively rather crude methodology such as whole sign as house, ayanamshas which he calls are " arbitrary " or 'empirical' (based on observation and personal experiences and experimentation etc). > > Comments, personal experiences and experimentations, dear friends? And please relax, most of us are mature enough to not tread on the frail, fragile, SHY, introverts amongst us. I promise to be very gentle, as long as you are serious and sincere in your sharing!! ;-) > > Rohiniranjan > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2010 Report Share Posted January 15, 2010 Thanks. Commonly (in Jyotish), the rising degree (and corresponding degrees in subsequent signs for equal sign houses and averged for Sripati type houses...) are taken as the 'mid-point' of a house. Western astrologers use the rising degree as the beginning of the first house (and subsequent corresponding 'points' as remaining cusps). Now, in these South Indian (?) classics (and ashtamangala etc): - Why are so many different types of house conventions used (bhavarambha, bhav-madhya etc)? Any special significances?? - When these different systems are given, why should they not be mixed (as you described in the venus in virgo example). There is another problem with the deep-debility point (I will get back to you later on on that. I got to leave for work now :-)) - In these 'Classics', less well known to many (never heard the concept in Jyotish context before), is the concept of intercepted signs also discussed? I realize that in the South Indian latitudes this would not be an issue but in the Northern latitudes, it is the norm. Thanks for your time and willingness to share, RR_, , " Suresh Babu.A.G " <sureshbabuag wrote: > > //if in a chart Leo 19 deg is rising, Shenoy ji would use Leo 19 to Virgo 19 as the first house (or the Porphyrii-Sripati approximation? // > > True > > //And if Venus in that chart is in 13 degree Virgo, Shenoy ji would consider that chart as one where debilitated venus is rising (obviously with no standard factors cancelling the debility?). // > > At this point, It requires carefull handling. Technicaly, 13 deg virgo lies within the 1st bhava. Deep debilation of venus occurs at 27 deg Virgo which, is in 2nd bhava. Care should be taken when mixing the bhava position & rasi. No doubt you know it very well, But have seen many others mixing both unconditionly. > > Now you have another set of division of bhava > A) rasi based > B) common bhava chalit based on equal division taking Udaya as center point > C) Udaya as starting point > > The usage of the third (this discussion) is mostly in areas where we want to find the date / timming of events pertaining to each bhava. > Consider the Star in which bhava rises. This star & its lord is important and may have a role in the factors that decide the time of the event. For ex: one marriage could be on a day on which the star of the 7th house rises or the day's kalahora lord is the lord of that star. This assumes greater weighteage if that lord is also a deciding factor in the scheme of marriage. After all this what makes astrology a complex subject. >   >  A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy > > > > > ________________________________ > rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani > > Fri, January 15, 2010 9:17:13 AM > Re: YOU WANT ASTROLOGY, EH...? > >  > Thanks! > > So, if I am understanding correctly, if in a chart Leo 19 deg is rising, Shenoy ji would use Leo 19 to Virgo 19 as the first house (or the Porphyrii-Sripati approximation? And if Venus in that chart is in 13 degree Virgo, Shenoy ji would consider that chart as one where debilitated venus is rising (obviously with no standard factors cancelling the debility?). Am I understanding your position, correctly? :-) > > I had been talking to AMMA too much this evening, so just giving a shake to my head to shake off the cob-webs and making sure that I understand you accurately! :-) > > RR > > , " Suresh Babu.A.G " <sureshbabuag@ ....> wrote: > > > > Dear Rohini ji, > > > > Just to put record straight, It is not a new theory nor it is P.V.R.Narashimha Rao's > > > > It is good old classical reference. > > > > When we use " Udaya " for the Lagna - That one rise, the same is extended to the next bhava as well and the next etc. > > > > It is an implied phenomena. Classicals has made several references to " bhavodaya " - meaning the rising of Bhava just like lagna. > > > > In kerala we have been using these for timming of events during Ashtamangala prashna etc. > > A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani@ ...> > > > > Fri, January 15, 2010 8:24:47 AM > > YOU WANT ASTROLOGY, EH...? > > > >  > > Okay, let us talk about astrology for a change, dear *Astrologers* ! > > > > With newer and newer information coming in and some rather elegant articles shared freely and widely by P.V.R. Narasimha Rao (Wonderful Gentleman!) and others we now have the following considerations: > > > > Whole rashi does not work well, so some have gone to using Chalit but maintained the rising degree as the reference mid-point of a house. Narasimha, if I understood correctly, recently advocated placing the degree at the beginning (cusp) of a house, just as KP does and Western Astrologers have unwaveringly followed! > > > > Also Narasimha has introduced the concept of using degrees in finer vargas in a proportionate manner to the Kshetra/Rashi varga. And why not? KP, after all has used the same 'analogy' in a sense! And even before KP, isn't that 'proportionation' the very basis for calculating bhuktis from dashas, antharas from bhuktis? > > > > And his very recently revealed Jagannath ayanamsha which is based on his observations and he has written about it with lots of examples. > > > > He has brilliantly introduced many similar changes in the framework of jyotish (including new and way finer vargas than earlier available -- and has always graciously provided the TOOL for free to enable those who wish, to adopt his methodologies and test those etc. > > > > Of course, adopting to his recommendations would mean a HUGE SEA-CHANGE in the modern practice of JYOTISH! Many astrologers are still using comparatively rather crude methodology such as whole sign as house, ayanamshas which he calls are " arbitrary " or 'empirical' (based on observation and personal experiences and experimentation etc). > > > > Comments, personal experiences and experimentations, dear friends? And please relax, most of us are mature enough to not tread on the frail, fragile, SHY, introverts amongst us. I promise to be very gentle, as long as you are serious and sincere in your sharing!! ;-) > > > > Rohiniranjan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2010 Report Share Posted January 15, 2010 // Why are so many different types of house conventions used (bhavarambha, bhav-madhya etc)? Any special significances? ?// I don't know, You are the paramacharya. You tell me. //In these 'Classics', less well known to many // " less lugguage more confort " " Ignorance is bliss " have a nice day A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy ________________________________ rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani Fri, January 15, 2010 5:27:24 PM Re: YOU WANT ASTROLOGY, EH...?  Thanks. Commonly (in Jyotish), the rising degree (and corresponding degrees in subsequent signs for equal sign houses and averged for Sripati type houses...) are taken as the 'mid-point' of a house. Western astrologers use the rising degree as the beginning of the first house (and subsequent corresponding 'points' as remaining cusps). Now, in these South Indian (?) classics (and ashtamangala etc): - Why are so many different types of house conventions used (bhavarambha, bhav-madhya etc)? Any special significances? ? - When these different systems are given, why should they not be mixed (as you described in the venus in virgo example). There is another problem with the deep-debility point (I will get back to you later on on that. I got to leave for work now :-)) - In these 'Classics', less well known to many (never heard the concept in Jyotish context before), is the concept of intercepted signs also discussed? I realize that in the South Indian latitudes this would not be an issue but in the Northern latitudes, it is the norm. Thanks for your time and willingness to share, RR_, , " Suresh Babu.A.G " <sureshbabuag@ ...> wrote: > > //if in a chart Leo 19 deg is rising, Shenoy ji would use Leo 19 to Virgo 19 as the first house (or the Porphyrii-Sripati approximation? // > > True > > //And if Venus in that chart is in 13 degree Virgo, Shenoy ji would consider that chart as one where debilitated venus is rising (obviously with no standard factors cancelling the debility?). / / > > At this point, It requires carefull handling. Technicaly, 13 deg virgo lies within the 1st bhava. Deep debilation of venus occurs at 27 deg Virgo which, is in 2nd bhava. Care should be taken when mixing the bhava position & rasi. No doubt you know it very well, But have seen many others mixing both unconditionly. > > Now you have another set of division of bhava > A) rasi based > B) common bhava chalit based on equal division taking Udaya as center point > C) Udaya as starting point > > The usage of the third (this discussion) is mostly in areas where we want to find the date / timming of events pertaining to each bhava. > Consider the Star in which bhava rises. This star & its lord is important and may have a role in the factors that decide the time of the event. For ex: one marriage could be on a day on which the star of the 7th house rises or the day's kalahora lord is the lord of that star. This assumes greater weighteage if that lord is also a deciding factor in the scheme of marriage. After all this what makes astrology a complex subject. >   >  A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani@ ...> > > Fri, January 15, 2010 9:17:13 AM > Re: YOU WANT ASTROLOGY, EH...? > >  > Thanks! > > So, if I am understanding correctly, if in a chart Leo 19 deg is rising, Shenoy ji would use Leo 19 to Virgo 19 as the first house (or the Porphyrii-Sripati approximation? And if Venus in that chart is in 13 degree Virgo, Shenoy ji would consider that chart as one where debilitated venus is rising (obviously with no standard factors cancelling the debility?). Am I understanding your position, correctly? :-) > > I had been talking to AMMA too much this evening, so just giving a shake to my head to shake off the cob-webs and making sure that I understand you accurately! :-) > > RR > > , " Suresh Babu.A.G " <sureshbabuag@ ....> wrote: > > > > Dear Rohini ji, > > > > Just to put record straight, It is not a new theory nor it is P.V.R.Narashimha Rao's > > > > It is good old classical reference. > > > > When we use " Udaya " for the Lagna - That one rise, the same is extended to the next bhava as well and the next etc. > > > > It is an implied phenomena. Classicals has made several references to " bhavodaya " - meaning the rising of Bhava just like lagna. > > > > In kerala we have been using these for timming of events during Ashtamangala prashna etc. > > A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani@ ...> > > > > Fri, January 15, 2010 8:24:47 AM > > YOU WANT ASTROLOGY, EH...? > > > >  > > Okay, let us talk about astrology for a change, dear *Astrologers* ! > > > > With newer and newer information coming in and some rather elegant articles shared freely and widely by P.V.R. Narasimha Rao (Wonderful Gentleman!) and others we now have the following considerations: > > > > Whole rashi does not work well, so some have gone to using Chalit but maintained the rising degree as the reference mid-point of a house. Narasimha, if I understood correctly, recently advocated placing the degree at the beginning (cusp) of a house, just as KP does and Western Astrologers have unwaveringly followed! > > > > Also Narasimha has introduced the concept of using degrees in finer vargas in a proportionate manner to the Kshetra/Rashi varga. And why not? KP, after all has used the same 'analogy' in a sense! And even before KP, isn't that 'proportionation' the very basis for calculating bhuktis from dashas, antharas from bhuktis? > > > > And his very recently revealed Jagannath ayanamsha which is based on his observations and he has written about it with lots of examples. > > > > He has brilliantly introduced many similar changes in the framework of jyotish (including new and way finer vargas than earlier available -- and has always graciously provided the TOOL for free to enable those who wish, to adopt his methodologies and test those etc. > > > > Of course, adopting to his recommendations would mean a HUGE SEA-CHANGE in the modern practice of JYOTISH! Many astrologers are still using comparatively rather crude methodology such as whole sign as house, ayanamshas which he calls are " arbitrary " or 'empirical' (based on observation and personal experiences and experimentation etc). > > > > Comments, personal experiences and experimentations, dear friends? And please relax, most of us are mature enough to not tread on the frail, fragile, SHY, introverts amongst us. I promise to be very gentle, as long as you are serious and sincere in your sharing!! ;-) > > > > Rohiniranjan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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