Guest guest Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 Dear Members, Have you ever wondered why we don't have any written documentation, or even history(with proof/ hard core evidence) that dates back prior to to 2,700 years? What was happening prior to that era? Most ancient scriptures date back only that far back in time..It's strange how those rishi's wrote the classics referring to men of Kaliyuga only.. Almost like they could foresee what was to come in the next yuga. Lilly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 It was called " oral-tradition! " , " tigresslilly2005 " <tigresslilly2005 wrote: > > > Dear Members, > > Have you ever wondered why we don't have any written documentation, or even history(with proof/ hard core evidence) that dates back prior to to 2,700 years? What was happening prior to that era? Most ancient scriptures date back only that far back in time..It's strange how those rishi's wrote the classics referring to men of Kaliyuga only.. Almost like they could foresee what was to come in the next yuga. > > Lilly > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 So when and how did we loose this tradition? Lilly , " rohinicrystal " <jyotish_vani wrote: > > It was called " oral-tradition! " > > , " tigresslilly2005 " <tigresslilly2005@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Members, > > > > Have you ever wondered why we don't have any written documentation, or even history(with proof/ hard core evidence) that dates back prior to to 2,700 years? What was happening prior to that era? Most ancient scriptures date back only that far back in time..It's strange how those rishi's wrote the classics referring to men of Kaliyuga only.. Almost like they could foresee what was to come in the next yuga. > > > > Lilly > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 Dear Lilly, Some of us did, others did not! Those who stopped 'listening' did, while those others that kept their ears to the ground as the North American Indian insists we do (Tiger Lilly, by the way was an autochtone as I am sure you know, having assumed her name!)! Since you are in North America here is a request. Please try to attend a few Native American rituals and dances in a very OPEN frame of mind. You may end up 'hearing' something of relevance and personal interest! Best regards, Rohiniranjan , " Lilly " <tigresslilly2005 wrote: > > > So when and how did we loose this tradition? > > > Lilly > , " rohinicrystal " <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > It was called " oral-tradition! " > > > > , " tigresslilly2005 " <tigresslilly2005@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Dear Members, > > > > > > Have you ever wondered why we don't have any written documentation, or even history(with proof/ hard core evidence) that dates back prior to to 2,700 years? What was happening prior to that era? Most ancient scriptures date back only that far back in time..It's strange how those rishi's wrote the classics referring to men of Kaliyuga only.. Almost like they could foresee what was to come in the next yuga. > > > > > > Lilly > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 Dear RR Ji, The native American Indians that I know are actually not full blooded, but mixed with other 'races' or groups of people as we speak! But, I have seen their rituals and dances on T.V..The ones I know have been so diluted that they don't even resemble the natives, unless you look at them close up..I remember when I was in college I had a friend who was of both native American Indian and half Scottish descent, but did not resemble much of either of her parents, and just looked like someone exotic from some island. I really think that these Native Americans must have originally came from the Indian sub-continent at some point.. I can see a lot of similarities between these groups of people with the people of India. Lilly , " rohinicrystal " <jyotish_vani wrote: > > Dear Lilly, > > Some of us did, others did not! > > Those who stopped 'listening' did, while those others that kept their ears to the ground as the North American Indian insists we do (Tiger Lilly, by the way was an autochtone as I am sure you know, having assumed her name!)! > > Since you are in North America here is a request. Please try to attend a few Native American rituals and dances in a very OPEN frame of mind. You may end up 'hearing' something of relevance and personal interest! > > Best regards, > > Rohiniranjan > > > > , " Lilly " <tigresslilly2005@> wrote: > > > > > > So when and how did we loose this tradition? > > > > > > Lilly > > , " rohinicrystal " <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > It was called " oral-tradition! " > > > > > > , " tigresslilly2005 " <tigresslilly2005@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Members, > > > > > > > > Have you ever wondered why we don't have any written documentation, or even history(with proof/ hard core evidence) that dates back prior to to 2,700 years? What was happening prior to that era? Most ancient scriptures date back only that far back in time..It's strange how those rishi's wrote the classics referring to men of Kaliyuga only.. Almost like they could foresee what was to come in the next yuga. > > > > > > > > Lilly > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 Racial purity is an overrated concept and if one digs deeper, purity comes into question for other so called races as well. In fact there is a belief that we all came from Africa (Mitochondrial evidence, if I recall). There are all kinds of mixtures in India also. It is true that the dances etc performed by native americans have been modified somewhat to provide an entertainment angle, just as chinese or indian food served in north american restaurants which is really not what people eat in China or India, but you might have to explore in Central and South America to arrive at the rituals that are closer to the original native americans :-) RR_, , " Lilly " <tigresslilly2005 wrote: > > > > Dear RR Ji, > > The native American Indians that I know are actually not full blooded, but mixed with other 'races' or groups of people as we speak! But, I have seen their rituals and dances on T.V..The ones I know have been so diluted that they don't even resemble the natives, unless you look at them close up..I remember when I was in college I had a friend who was of both native American Indian and half Scottish descent, but did not resemble much of either of her parents, and just looked like someone exotic from some island. > > I really think that these Native Americans must have originally came from the Indian sub-continent at some point.. I can see a lot of similarities between these groups of people with the people of India. > > Lilly > > , " rohinicrystal " <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > Dear Lilly, > > > > Some of us did, others did not! > > > > Those who stopped 'listening' did, while those others that kept their ears to the ground as the North American Indian insists we do (Tiger Lilly, by the way was an autochtone as I am sure you know, having assumed her name!)! > > > > Since you are in North America here is a request. Please try to attend a few Native American rituals and dances in a very OPEN frame of mind. You may end up 'hearing' something of relevance and personal interest! > > > > Best regards, > > > > Rohiniranjan > > > > > > > > , " Lilly " <tigresslilly2005@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > So when and how did we loose this tradition? > > > > > > > > > Lilly > > > , " rohinicrystal " <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > > > It was called " oral-tradition! " > > > > > > > > , " tigresslilly2005 " <tigresslilly2005@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Members, > > > > > > > > > > Have you ever wondered why we don't have any written documentation, or even history(with proof/ hard core evidence) that dates back prior to to 2,700 years? What was happening prior to that era? Most ancient scriptures date back only that far back in time..It's strange how those rishi's wrote the classics referring to men of Kaliyuga only.. Almost like they could foresee what was to come in the next yuga. > > > > > > > > > > Lilly > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 I agree with Rohniranjan Ji ( as I understand ). I thought that in his message he is asking us to be open up our minds and try to reduce presuppositions and hear the subtle ways humans have communicated. Written language is just one way and it has it's own limitations. It is said by many that in verbal communication also there is lot of communication through jesters and other non verbal means. Ancient dances are a way of communicating subtle ideas. Mixing of races does affect written ,verbal and art ( dances) communication. I think information becomes knowledge thorough analysis and contemplation. --- On Wed, 2/24/10, rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani wrote: rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani Re: Origins of Vedic Astrology! Wednesday, February 24, 2010, 8:01 AM Â Racial purity is an overrated concept and if one digs deeper, purity comes into question for other so called races as well. In fact there is a belief that we all came from Africa (Mitochondrial evidence, if I recall). There are all kinds of mixtures in India also. It is true that the dances etc performed by native americans have been modified somewhat to provide an entertainment angle, just as chinese or indian food served in north american restaurants which is really not what people eat in China or India, but you might have to explore in Central and South America to arrive at the rituals that are closer to the original native americans :-) RR_, , " Lilly " <tigresslilly2005@ ...> wrote: > > > > Dear RR Ji, > > The native American Indians that I know are actually not full blooded, but mixed with other 'races' or groups of people as we speak! But, I have seen their rituals and dances on T.V..The ones I know have been so diluted that they don't even resemble the natives, unless you look at them close up..I remember when I was in college I had a friend who was of both native American Indian and half Scottish descent, but did not resemble much of either of her parents, and just looked like someone exotic from some island. > > I really think that these Native Americans must have originally came from the Indian sub-continent at some point.. I can see a lot of similarities between these groups of people with the people of India. > > Lilly > > , " rohinicrystal " <jyotish_vani@ > wrote: > > > > Dear Lilly, > > > > Some of us did, others did not! > > > > Those who stopped 'listening' did, while those others that kept their ears to the ground as the North American Indian insists we do (Tiger Lilly, by the way was an autochtone as I am sure you know, having assumed her name!)! > > > > Since you are in North America here is a request. Please try to attend a few Native American rituals and dances in a very OPEN frame of mind. You may end up 'hearing' something of relevance and personal interest! > > > > Best regards, > > > > Rohiniranjan > > > > > > > > , " Lilly " <tigresslilly2005@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > So when and how did we loose this tradition? > > > > > > > > > Lilly > > > , " rohinicrystal " <jyotish_vani@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > It was called " oral-tradition! " > > > > > > > > , " tigresslilly2005 " <tigresslilly2005@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Members, > > > > > > > > > > Have you ever wondered why we don't have any written documentation, or even history(with proof/ hard core evidence) that dates back prior to to 2,700 years? What was happening prior to that era? Most ancient scriptures date back only that far back in time..It's strange how those rishi's wrote the classics referring to men of Kaliyuga only.. Almost like they could foresee what was to come in the next yuga. > > > > > > > > > > Lilly > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 I also agree with both RR-Ji and PG darshan Ji.. Reading something from a book gets colored and diluted with the 'authors' biases and he may actually twist and turn the message completely in subtle ways, from what it was originally intended to be! It also lack the subtle vibration which you would normally get only if sitting and listening in front of Guru ji.. Lilly , PG <darshan261 wrote: > > I agree with Rohniranjan Ji ( as I understand ). I thought that in his message he is asking us to be open up our minds and try to reduce presuppositions and hear the subtle ways humans have communicated. Written language is just one way and it has it's own limitations. It is said by many that in verbal communication also there is lot of communication through jesters and other non verbal means. Ancient dances are a way of communicating subtle ideas. Mixing of races does affect written ,verbal and art ( dances) communication. I think information becomes knowledge thorough analysis and contemplation. > > --- On Wed, 2/24/10, rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani wrote: > > > rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani > Re: Origins of Vedic Astrology! > > Wednesday, February 24, 2010, 8:01 AM > > > Â > > > > Racial purity is an overrated concept and if one digs deeper, purity comes into question for other so called races as well. In fact there is a belief that we all came from Africa (Mitochondrial evidence, if I recall). There are all kinds of mixtures in India also. > > It is true that the dances etc performed by native americans have been modified somewhat to provide an entertainment angle, just as chinese or indian food served in north american restaurants which is really not what people eat in China or India, but you might have to explore in Central and South America to arrive at the rituals that are closer to the original native americans :-) > > RR_, > > , " Lilly " <tigresslilly2005@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear RR Ji, > > > > The native American Indians that I know are actually not full blooded, but mixed with other 'races' or groups of people as we speak! But, I have seen their rituals and dances on T.V..The ones I know have been so diluted that they don't even resemble the natives, unless you look at them close up..I remember when I was in college I had a friend who was of both native American Indian and half Scottish descent, but did not resemble much of either of her parents, and just looked like someone exotic from some island. > > > > I really think that these Native Americans must have originally came from the Indian sub-continent at some point.. I can see a lot of similarities between these groups of people with the people of India. > > > > Lilly > > > > , " rohinicrystal " <jyotish_vani@ > wrote: > > > > > > Dear Lilly, > > > > > > Some of us did, others did not! > > > > > > Those who stopped 'listening' did, while those others that kept their ears to the ground as the North American Indian insists we do (Tiger Lilly, by the way was an autochtone as I am sure you know, having assumed her name!)! > > > > > > Since you are in North America here is a request. Please try to attend a few Native American rituals and dances in a very OPEN frame of mind. You may end up 'hearing' something of relevance and personal interest! > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > Rohiniranjan > > > > > > > > > > > > , " Lilly " <tigresslilly2005@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > So when and how did we loose this tradition? > > > > > > > > > > > > Lilly > > > > , " rohinicrystal " <jyotish_vani@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > It was called " oral-tradition! " > > > > > > > > > > , " tigresslilly2005 " <tigresslilly2005@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Members, > > > > > > > > > > > > Have you ever wondered why we don't have any written documentation, or even history(with proof/ hard core evidence) that dates back prior to to 2,700 years? What was happening prior to that era? Most ancient scriptures date back only that far back in time..It's strange how those rishi's wrote the classics referring to men of Kaliyuga only.. Almost like they could foresee what was to come in the next yuga. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lilly > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 Dear Lilly, You are right. Legend has it that near end of Treta yuga Goddess Parvati said to Lord Shankara that kaliyuga is approaching and the people then shall have innumerable sufferings, so my Lord give a science that will help lessen their sufferings, and the Lord gave astrology which was then carried by Narada to the Bhuloka. But this relates to the prediction for human lives part only. The science of predicting planetary movements including eclipse and omens and their results on kings and populace existed prior to that. Mention of planetary positions at the time of birth of Lord Rama and Lord Krishna are testimony to that. Kaliyuga is said to have begun when Lord Krishna went to his heavenly abode and that is around 3102 BC so the records certainly predate 2700 years, though they were in form of memorizing the texts and manuscripts came later on. Take care, Chandrashekhar. - tigresslilly2005 Wednesday, February 24, 2010 12:26 AM Origins of Vedic Astrology! Dear Members, Have you ever wondered why we don't have any written documentation, or even history(with proof/ hard core evidence) that dates back prior to to 2,700 years? What was happening prior to that era? Most ancient scriptures date back only that far back in time..It's strange how those rishi's wrote the classics referring to men of Kaliyuga only.. Almost like they could foresee what was to come in the next yuga. Lilly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 Chandrashekhar jee, I think it is very well-accepted,as mentioned earlier, that Ancient Indian wisdom, like other ancient wisdom was initially preserved and propagated by the oral tradition. The traces of this tradition probably exist still and not just in Hindu Culture but other religions as well where the emphasis is placed on the memorizing and preservation. And this is not just done as an exercise to improve memory (which is a positive side-benefit) but for preservation of wisdom, literally verbatim. Over time, perhaps memories became lax and things got transferred to writing and then writing got lazier and now we end up with half a dozen versions of a given scriptural text. What has been often lamented upon as the degrading influence of Cull-Yuga. Anyone who thinks and feels that what is written and available in 'book-stores' is all there is, even in jyotish, is taking too much for granted. I realize that not ALL claims in the name of parampara or secrets of generations may be truly that but there sure is a lot that lies between the printed word and the memories that still exist but do not speak too much publicly. And that is where my fear is and an acute feeling of loss! What if these bodies of knowledge that remain secret die with the only remaining owner and its corollary -- written documents that did not or could not get published for a variety of reasons and have fallen in the hand of later generations who do not know the academic value of these ancient writings! God knows how many written accounts on ancient 'leaves' have been ill-preserved and possibly eaten up by termites and silverfish and other insect! I shudder even at the thought of that...! Rohiniranjan , " Chandrashekhar " <sharma.chandrashekhar wrote: > > Dear Lilly, > > You are right. Legend has it that near end of Treta yuga Goddess Parvati said to Lord Shankara that kaliyuga is approaching and the people then shall have innumerable sufferings, so my Lord give a science that will help lessen their sufferings, and the Lord gave astrology which was then carried by Narada to the Bhuloka. But this relates to the prediction for human lives part only. The science of predicting planetary movements including eclipse and omens and their results on kings and populace existed prior to that. Mention of planetary positions at the time of birth of Lord Rama and Lord Krishna are testimony to that. Kaliyuga is said to have begun when Lord Krishna went to his heavenly abode and that is around 3102 BC so the records certainly predate 2700 years, though they were in form of memorizing the texts and manuscripts came later on. > > Take care, > Chandrashekhar. > > - > tigresslilly2005 > > Wednesday, February 24, 2010 12:26 AM > Origins of Vedic Astrology! > > > > > Dear Members, > > Have you ever wondered why we don't have any written documentation, or even history(with proof/ hard core evidence) that dates back prior to to 2,700 years? What was happening prior to that era? Most ancient scriptures date back only that far back in time..It's strange how those rishi's wrote the classics referring to men of Kaliyuga only.. Almost like they could foresee what was to come in the next yuga. > > Lilly > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 Such biases would not be automatically eliminated even while receiving these subtle vibrations (??) from a Guru's presence :-) In fact it becomes more difficult to oppose the 'guru' than to question a written book. Whether learning from a book or a Teacher, my recommendation is to keep an open mind, but not so open that one's brain falls out ;-) Rohiniranjan , " Lilly " <tigresslilly2005 wrote: > > > I also agree with both RR-Ji and PG darshan Ji.. > Reading something from a book gets colored and diluted with the 'authors' biases and he may actually twist and turn the message completely in subtle ways, from what it was originally intended to be! > > It also lack the subtle vibration which you would normally get only if sitting and listening in front of Guru ji.. > > Lilly > > , PG <darshan261@> wrote: > > > > I agree with Rohniranjan Ji ( as I understand ). I thought that in his message he is asking us to be open up our minds and try to reduce presuppositions and hear the subtle ways humans have communicated. Written language is just one way and it has it's own limitations. It is said by many that in verbal communication also there is lot of communication through jesters and other non verbal means. Ancient dances are a way of communicating subtle ideas. Mixing of races does affect written ,verbal and art ( dances) communication. I think information becomes knowledge thorough analysis and contemplation. > > > > --- On Wed, 2/24/10, rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani@> > > Re: Origins of Vedic Astrology! > > > > Wednesday, February 24, 2010, 8:01 AM > > > > > > Â > > > > > > > > Racial purity is an overrated concept and if one digs deeper, purity comes into question for other so called races as well. In fact there is a belief that we all came from Africa (Mitochondrial evidence, if I recall). There are all kinds of mixtures in India also. > > > > It is true that the dances etc performed by native americans have been modified somewhat to provide an entertainment angle, just as chinese or indian food served in north american restaurants which is really not what people eat in China or India, but you might have to explore in Central and South America to arrive at the rituals that are closer to the original native americans :-) > > > > RR_, > > > > , " Lilly " <tigresslilly2005@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear RR Ji, > > > > > > The native American Indians that I know are actually not full blooded, but mixed with other 'races' or groups of people as we speak! But, I have seen their rituals and dances on T.V..The ones I know have been so diluted that they don't even resemble the natives, unless you look at them close up..I remember when I was in college I had a friend who was of both native American Indian and half Scottish descent, but did not resemble much of either of her parents, and just looked like someone exotic from some island. > > > > > > I really think that these Native Americans must have originally came from the Indian sub-continent at some point.. I can see a lot of similarities between these groups of people with the people of India. > > > > > > Lilly > > > > > > , " rohinicrystal " <jyotish_vani@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Lilly, > > > > > > > > Some of us did, others did not! > > > > > > > > Those who stopped 'listening' did, while those others that kept their ears to the ground as the North American Indian insists we do (Tiger Lilly, by the way was an autochtone as I am sure you know, having assumed her name!)! > > > > > > > > Since you are in North America here is a request. Please try to attend a few Native American rituals and dances in a very OPEN frame of mind. You may end up 'hearing' something of relevance and personal interest! > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > Rohiniranjan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " Lilly " <tigresslilly2005@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So when and how did we loose this tradition? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lilly > > > > > , " rohinicrystal " <jyotish_vani@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > It was called " oral-tradition! " > > > > > > > > > > > > , " tigresslilly2005 " <tigresslilly2005@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Members, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Have you ever wondered why we don't have any written documentation, or even history(with proof/ hard core evidence) that dates back prior to to 2,700 years? What was happening prior to that era? Most ancient scriptures date back only that far back in time..It's strange how those rishi's wrote the classics referring to men of Kaliyuga only.. Almost like they could foresee what was to come in the next yuga. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lilly > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2010 Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 Why must we oppose the 'guru'? Obviously, the 'guru' got this title with much wisdom and years of experince! We only make a 'guru' of someone we think is divine/ superior to us in knowledge and wisdom! Lilly , " rohinicrystal " <jyotish_vani wrote: > > Such biases would not be automatically eliminated even while receiving these subtle vibrations (??) from a Guru's presence :-) In fact it becomes more difficult to oppose the 'guru' than to question a written book. > > Whether learning from a book or a Teacher, my recommendation is to keep an open mind, but not so open that one's brain falls out ;-) > > Rohiniranjan > > , " Lilly " <tigresslilly2005@> wrote: > > > > > > I also agree with both RR-Ji and PG darshan Ji.. > > Reading something from a book gets colored and diluted with the 'authors' biases and he may actually twist and turn the message completely in subtle ways, from what it was originally intended to be! > > > > It also lack the subtle vibration which you would normally get only if sitting and listening in front of Guru ji.. > > > > Lilly > > > > , PG <darshan261@> wrote: > > > > > > I agree with Rohniranjan Ji ( as I understand ). I thought that in his message he is asking us to be open up our minds and try to reduce presuppositions and hear the subtle ways humans have communicated. Written language is just one way and it has it's own limitations. It is said by many that in verbal communication also there is lot of communication through jesters and other non verbal means. Ancient dances are a way of communicating subtle ideas. Mixing of races does affect written ,verbal and art ( dances) communication. I think information becomes knowledge thorough analysis and contemplation. > > > > > > --- On Wed, 2/24/10, rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani@> > > > Re: Origins of Vedic Astrology! > > > > > > Wednesday, February 24, 2010, 8:01 AM > > > > > > > > > Â > > > > > > > > > > > > Racial purity is an overrated concept and if one digs deeper, purity comes into question for other so called races as well. In fact there is a belief that we all came from Africa (Mitochondrial evidence, if I recall). There are all kinds of mixtures in India also. > > > > > > It is true that the dances etc performed by native americans have been modified somewhat to provide an entertainment angle, just as chinese or indian food served in north american restaurants which is really not what people eat in China or India, but you might have to explore in Central and South America to arrive at the rituals that are closer to the original native americans :-) > > > > > > RR_, > > > > > > , " Lilly " <tigresslilly2005@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear RR Ji, > > > > > > > > The native American Indians that I know are actually not full blooded, but mixed with other 'races' or groups of people as we speak! But, I have seen their rituals and dances on T.V..The ones I know have been so diluted that they don't even resemble the natives, unless you look at them close up..I remember when I was in college I had a friend who was of both native American Indian and half Scottish descent, but did not resemble much of either of her parents, and just looked like someone exotic from some island. > > > > > > > > I really think that these Native Americans must have originally came from the Indian sub-continent at some point.. I can see a lot of similarities between these groups of people with the people of India. > > > > > > > > Lilly > > > > > > > > , " rohinicrystal " <jyotish_vani@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lilly, > > > > > > > > > > Some of us did, others did not! > > > > > > > > > > Those who stopped 'listening' did, while those others that kept their ears to the ground as the North American Indian insists we do (Tiger Lilly, by the way was an autochtone as I am sure you know, having assumed her name!)! > > > > > > > > > > Since you are in North America here is a request. Please try to attend a few Native American rituals and dances in a very OPEN frame of mind. You may end up 'hearing' something of relevance and personal interest! > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > > > Rohiniranjan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " Lilly " <tigresslilly2005@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So when and how did we loose this tradition? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lilly > > > > > > , " rohinicrystal " <jyotish_vani@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It was called " oral-tradition! " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " tigresslilly2005 " <tigresslilly2005@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Members, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Have you ever wondered why we don't have any written documentation, or even history(with proof/ hard core evidence) that dates back prior to to 2,700 years? What was happening prior to that era? Most ancient scriptures date back only that far back in time..It's strange how those rishi's wrote the classics referring to men of Kaliyuga only.. Almost like they could foresee what was to come in the next yuga. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lilly > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2010 Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 Obviously you have not been paying attention to the reading requests on Jyotish fora, including this one :-) Anyway -- enjoy your sojourn and exploration! RR_, , " Lilly " <tigresslilly2005 wrote: > > > Why must we oppose the 'guru'? Obviously, the 'guru' got this title with much wisdom and years of experince! We only make a 'guru' of someone we think is divine/ superior to us in knowledge and wisdom! > > > Lilly > > > , " rohinicrystal " <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > Such biases would not be automatically eliminated even while receiving these subtle vibrations (??) from a Guru's presence :-) In fact it becomes more difficult to oppose the 'guru' than to question a written book. > > > > Whether learning from a book or a Teacher, my recommendation is to keep an open mind, but not so open that one's brain falls out ;-) > > > > Rohiniranjan > > > > , " Lilly " <tigresslilly2005@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > I also agree with both RR-Ji and PG darshan Ji.. > > > Reading something from a book gets colored and diluted with the 'authors' biases and he may actually twist and turn the message completely in subtle ways, from what it was originally intended to be! > > > > > > It also lack the subtle vibration which you would normally get only if sitting and listening in front of Guru ji.. > > > > > > Lilly > > > > > > , PG <darshan261@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I agree with Rohniranjan Ji ( as I understand ). I thought that in his message he is asking us to be open up our minds and try to reduce presuppositions and hear the subtle ways humans have communicated. Written language is just one way and it has it's own limitations. It is said by many that in verbal communication also there is lot of communication through jesters and other non verbal means. Ancient dances are a way of communicating subtle ideas. Mixing of races does affect written ,verbal and art ( dances) communication. I think information becomes knowledge thorough analysis and contemplation. > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 2/24/10, rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani@> > > > > Re: Origins of Vedic Astrology! > > > > > > > > Wednesday, February 24, 2010, 8:01 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > Â > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Racial purity is an overrated concept and if one digs deeper, purity comes into question for other so called races as well. In fact there is a belief that we all came from Africa (Mitochondrial evidence, if I recall). There are all kinds of mixtures in India also. > > > > > > > > It is true that the dances etc performed by native americans have been modified somewhat to provide an entertainment angle, just as chinese or indian food served in north american restaurants which is really not what people eat in China or India, but you might have to explore in Central and South America to arrive at the rituals that are closer to the original native americans :-) > > > > > > > > RR_, > > > > > > > > , " Lilly " <tigresslilly2005@ ....> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear RR Ji, > > > > > > > > > > The native American Indians that I know are actually not full blooded, but mixed with other 'races' or groups of people as we speak! But, I have seen their rituals and dances on T.V..The ones I know have been so diluted that they don't even resemble the natives, unless you look at them close up..I remember when I was in college I had a friend who was of both native American Indian and half Scottish descent, but did not resemble much of either of her parents, and just looked like someone exotic from some island. > > > > > > > > > > I really think that these Native Americans must have originally came from the Indian sub-continent at some point.. I can see a lot of similarities between these groups of people with the people of India. > > > > > > > > > > Lilly > > > > > > > > > > , " rohinicrystal " <jyotish_vani@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lilly, > > > > > > > > > > > > Some of us did, others did not! > > > > > > > > > > > > Those who stopped 'listening' did, while those others that kept their ears to the ground as the North American Indian insists we do (Tiger Lilly, by the way was an autochtone as I am sure you know, having assumed her name!)! > > > > > > > > > > > > Since you are in North America here is a request. Please try to attend a few Native American rituals and dances in a very OPEN frame of mind. You may end up 'hearing' something of relevance and personal interest! > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > Rohiniranjan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " Lilly " <tigresslilly2005@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So when and how did we loose this tradition? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lilly > > > > > > > , " rohinicrystal " <jyotish_vani@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It was called " oral-tradition! " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " tigresslilly2005 " <tigresslilly2005@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Members, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Have you ever wondered why we don't have any written documentation, or even history(with proof/ hard core evidence) that dates back prior to to 2,700 years? What was happening prior to that era? Most ancient scriptures date back only that far back in time..It's strange how those rishi's wrote the classics referring to men of Kaliyuga only.. Almost like they could foresee what was to come in the next yuga. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lilly > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2010 Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 //And that is where my fear is and an acute feeling of loss! What if these bodies of knowledge that remain secret die with the only remaining owner and its corollary -- written documents that did not or could not get published for a variety of reasons and have fallen in the hand of later generations who do not know the academic value of these ancient writings! God knows how many written accounts on ancient 'leaves' have been ill-preserved and possibly eaten up by termites and silverfish and other insect! I shudder even at the thought of that...!// Very true. I saw a small booklet which stated that there are 21 vyakhanas for the first verse of Varahara Hora as paramparic teachings but are lost over the time due to the above reasons. During the early 50's/60's a lot of Manuscripts were taken away by europeans particularly germans & french from several temples in kerala itself. They gave away those without realizing its value. God only knows how many were taken away thus and elsewhere in the world. Today the Sanskrit dictionary both online & printed are by germans - not Indian. That itself is a proof of what we have lost and what we are doing regarding our treasures. A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy ________________________________ rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani Thu, February 25, 2010 3:26:24 AM Re: Origins of Vedic Astrology! Chandrashekhar jee, I think it is very well-accepted, as mentioned earlier, that Ancient Indian wisdom, like other ancient wisdom was initially preserved and propagated by the oral tradition. The traces of this tradition probably exist still and not just in Hindu Culture but other religions as well where the emphasis is placed on the memorizing and preservation. And this is not just done as an exercise to improve memory (which is a positive side-benefit) but for preservation of wisdom, literally verbatim. Over time, perhaps memories became lax and things got transferred to writing and then writing got lazier and now we end up with half a dozen versions of a given scriptural text. What has been often lamented upon as the degrading influence of Cull-Yuga. Anyone who thinks and feels that what is written and available in 'book-stores' is all there is, even in jyotish, is taking too much for granted. I realize that not ALL claims in the name of parampara or secrets of generations may be truly that but there sure is a lot that lies between the printed word and the memories that still exist but do not speak too much publicly. And that is where my fear is and an acute feeling of loss! What if these bodies of knowledge that remain secret die with the only remaining owner and its corollary -- written documents that did not or could not get published for a variety of reasons and have fallen in the hand of later generations who do not know the academic value of these ancient writings! God knows how many written accounts on ancient 'leaves' have been ill-preserved and possibly eaten up by termites and silverfish and other insect! I shudder even at the thought of that...! Rohiniranjan , " Chandrashekhar " <sharma.chandrashek har wrote: > > Dear Lilly, > > You are right. Legend has it that near end of Treta yuga Goddess Parvati said to Lord Shankara that kaliyuga is approaching and the people then shall have innumerable sufferings, so my Lord give a science that will help lessen their sufferings, and the Lord gave astrology which was then carried by Narada to the Bhuloka. But this relates to the prediction for human lives part only. The science of predicting planetary movements including eclipse and omens and their results on kings and populace existed prior to that. Mention of planetary positions at the time of birth of Lord Rama and Lord Krishna are testimony to that. Kaliyuga is said to have begun when Lord Krishna went to his heavenly abode and that is around 3102 BC so the records certainly predate 2700 years, though they were in form of memorizing the texts and manuscripts came later on. > > Take care, > Chandrashekhar. > > - > tigresslilly2005 > > Wednesday, February 24, 2010 12:26 AM > Origins of Vedic Astrology! > > > > > Dear Members, > > Have you ever wondered why we don't have any written documentation, or even history(with proof/ hard core evidence) that dates back prior to to 2,700 years? What was happening prior to that era? Most ancient scriptures date back only that far back in time..It's strange how those rishi's wrote the classics referring to men of Kaliyuga only.. Almost like they could foresee what was to come in the next yuga. > > Lilly > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2010 Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 If DIVINITY exists then nothing is truly lost and will arrive back in one form or another! :-) If DIVINITY DOES NOT EXIST then we face a problem! We human beings would have to figure it out all by ourselves and recreate all that we think is DIVINE! We better get working in that case!! I suggest we begin with the first chapter in BPHS -- whichever version we have and that we have studied! .... Maitraiya Uvaacha...! .... First -- there was the question! In other faiths they insisted that, " First there was light! " How can there be LIGHT unless first the DARKNESS gets questioned, politely? By Maitraiya? The quintessential curiosity that was gifted to us and rests often unexplored -- within each of us? In all 'versions' that exist! The CONSTANT = CURIOSITY! RR_, , " Suresh Babu.A.G " <sureshbabuag wrote: > > //And that is where my fear is and an acute feeling of loss! What if these bodies of knowledge that remain secret die with the only remaining > owner and its corollary -- written documents that did not or could not > get published for a variety of reasons and have fallen in the hand of > later generations who do not know the academic value of these ancient > writings! God knows how many written accounts on ancient 'leaves' have > been ill-preserved and possibly eaten up by termites and silverfish and > other insect! I shudder even at the thought of that...!// > > > Very true. I saw a small booklet which stated that there are 21 vyakhanas for the first verse of Varahara Hora as paramparic teachings but are lost over the time due to the above reasons. > > During the early 50's/60's a lot of Manuscripts were taken away by europeans particularly germans & french from several temples in kerala itself. They gave away those without realizing its value. God only knows how many were taken away thus and elsewhere in the world. Today the Sanskrit dictionary both online & printed are by germans - not Indian. That itself is a proof of what we have lost and what we are doing regarding our treasures. > > A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy > > > > > ________________________________ > rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani > > Thu, February 25, 2010 3:26:24 AM > Re: Origins of Vedic Astrology! > > > Chandrashekhar jee, > > I think it is very well-accepted, as mentioned earlier, that Ancient Indian wisdom, like other ancient wisdom was initially preserved and propagated by the oral tradition. The traces of this tradition probably exist still and not just in Hindu Culture but other religions as well where the emphasis is placed on the memorizing and preservation. And this is not just done as an exercise to improve memory (which is a positive side-benefit) but for preservation of wisdom, literally verbatim. Over time, perhaps memories became lax and things got transferred to writing and then writing got lazier and now we end up with half a dozen versions of a given scriptural text. What has been often lamented upon as the degrading influence of Cull-Yuga. > > Anyone who thinks and feels that what is written and available in 'book-stores' is all there is, even in jyotish, is taking too much for granted. I realize that not ALL claims in the name of parampara or secrets of generations may be truly that but there sure is a lot that lies between the printed word and the memories that still exist but do not speak too much publicly. > > And that is where my fear is and an acute feeling of loss! What if these bodies of knowledge that remain secret die with the only remaining owner and its corollary -- written documents that did not or could not get published for a variety of reasons and have fallen in the hand of later generations who do not know the academic value of these ancient writings! God knows how many written accounts on ancient 'leaves' have been ill-preserved and possibly eaten up by termites and silverfish and other insect! I shudder even at the thought of that...! > > Rohiniranjan > > , " Chandrashekhar " <sharma.chandrashek har@> wrote: > > > > Dear Lilly, > > > > You are right. Legend has it that near end of Treta yuga Goddess Parvati said to Lord Shankara that kaliyuga is approaching and the people then shall have innumerable sufferings, so my Lord give a science that will help lessen their sufferings, and the Lord gave astrology which was then carried by Narada to the Bhuloka. But this relates to the prediction for human lives part only. The science of predicting planetary movements including eclipse and omens and their results on kings and populace existed prior to that. Mention of planetary positions at the time of birth of Lord Rama and Lord Krishna are testimony to that. Kaliyuga is said to have begun when Lord Krishna went to his heavenly abode and that is around 3102 BC so the records certainly predate 2700 years, though they were in form of memorizing the texts and manuscripts came later on. > > > > Take care, > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > - > > tigresslilly2005 > > > > Wednesday, February 24, 2010 12:26 AM > > Origins of Vedic Astrology! > > > > > > > > > > Dear Members, > > > > Have you ever wondered why we don't have any written documentation, or even history(with proof/ hard core evidence) that dates back prior to to 2,700 years? What was happening prior to that era? Most ancient scriptures date back only that far back in time..It's strange how those rishi's wrote the classics referring to men of Kaliyuga only.. Almost like they could foresee what was to come in the next yuga. > > > > Lilly > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2010 Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 //First -- there was the question!In other faiths they insisted that, " First there was light! " How can there be LIGHT unless first the DARKNESS gets questioned, politely?// That's like asking " which came first- the chicken or the egg? " ! If you believe everything in nature to be cyclical, following some divine order or pattern than the order of question comes to never ending. Lilly , " rohinicrystal " <jyotish_vani wrote: > > If DIVINITY exists then nothing is truly lost and will arrive back in one form or another! :-) > > If DIVINITY DOES NOT EXIST then we face a problem! We human beings would have to figure it out all by ourselves and recreate all that we think is DIVINE! > > We better get working in that case!! > > I suggest we begin with the first chapter in BPHS -- whichever version we have and that we have studied! > > ... > Maitraiya Uvaacha...! > ... > > First -- there was the question! > > In other faiths they insisted that, " First there was light! " > > How can there be LIGHT unless first the DARKNESS gets questioned, politely? > > By Maitraiya? The quintessential curiosity that was gifted to us and rests often unexplored -- within each of us? In all 'versions' that exist! The CONSTANT = CURIOSITY! > > RR_, > > > , " Suresh Babu.A.G " <sureshbabuag@> wrote: > > > > //And that is where my fear is and an acute feeling of loss! What if these bodies of knowledge that remain secret die with the only remaining > > owner and its corollary -- written documents that did not or could not > > get published for a variety of reasons and have fallen in the hand of > > later generations who do not know the academic value of these ancient > > writings! God knows how many written accounts on ancient 'leaves' have > > been ill-preserved and possibly eaten up by termites and silverfish and > > other insect! I shudder even at the thought of that...!// > > > > > > Very true. I saw a small booklet which stated that there are 21 vyakhanas for the first verse of Varahara Hora as paramparic teachings but are lost over the time due to the above reasons. > > > > During the early 50's/60's a lot of Manuscripts were taken away by europeans particularly germans & french from several temples in kerala itself. They gave away those without realizing its value. God only knows how many were taken away thus and elsewhere in the world. Today the Sanskrit dictionary both online & printed are by germans - not Indian. That itself is a proof of what we have lost and what we are doing regarding our treasures. > > > > A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani@> > > > > Thu, February 25, 2010 3:26:24 AM > > Re: Origins of Vedic Astrology! > > > > > > Chandrashekhar jee, > > > > I think it is very well-accepted, as mentioned earlier, that Ancient Indian wisdom, like other ancient wisdom was initially preserved and propagated by the oral tradition. The traces of this tradition probably exist still and not just in Hindu Culture but other religions as well where the emphasis is placed on the memorizing and preservation. And this is not just done as an exercise to improve memory (which is a positive side-benefit) but for preservation of wisdom, literally verbatim. Over time, perhaps memories became lax and things got transferred to writing and then writing got lazier and now we end up with half a dozen versions of a given scriptural text. What has been often lamented upon as the degrading influence of Cull-Yuga. > > > > Anyone who thinks and feels that what is written and available in 'book-stores' is all there is, even in jyotish, is taking too much for granted. I realize that not ALL claims in the name of parampara or secrets of generations may be truly that but there sure is a lot that lies between the printed word and the memories that still exist but do not speak too much publicly. > > > > And that is where my fear is and an acute feeling of loss! What if these bodies of knowledge that remain secret die with the only remaining owner and its corollary -- written documents that did not or could not get published for a variety of reasons and have fallen in the hand of later generations who do not know the academic value of these ancient writings! God knows how many written accounts on ancient 'leaves' have been ill-preserved and possibly eaten up by termites and silverfish and other insect! I shudder even at the thought of that...! > > > > Rohiniranjan > > > > , " Chandrashekhar " <sharma.chandrashek har@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Lilly, > > > > > > You are right. Legend has it that near end of Treta yuga Goddess Parvati said to Lord Shankara that kaliyuga is approaching and the people then shall have innumerable sufferings, so my Lord give a science that will help lessen their sufferings, and the Lord gave astrology which was then carried by Narada to the Bhuloka. But this relates to the prediction for human lives part only. The science of predicting planetary movements including eclipse and omens and their results on kings and populace existed prior to that. Mention of planetary positions at the time of birth of Lord Rama and Lord Krishna are testimony to that. Kaliyuga is said to have begun when Lord Krishna went to his heavenly abode and that is around 3102 BC so the records certainly predate 2700 years, though they were in form of memorizing the texts and manuscripts came later on. > > > > > > Take care, > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > - > > > tigresslilly2005 > > > > > > Wednesday, February 24, 2010 12:26 AM > > > Origins of Vedic Astrology! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Members, > > > > > > Have you ever wondered why we don't have any written documentation, or even history(with proof/ hard core evidence) that dates back prior to to 2,700 years? What was happening prior to that era? Most ancient scriptures date back only that far back in time..It's strange how those rishi's wrote the classics referring to men of Kaliyuga only.. Almost like they could foresee what was to come in the next yuga. > > > > > > Lilly > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2010 Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 I do not think it is what comes first chicken or the egg. In this instance it is always question . Even if one believes that they might have an answer the curiousity that there may yet be another answer is the constant question. I agree the constant curiosity is the path to progressively greater understanding. Ashok Goswami --- On Wed, 2/24/10, Lilly <tigresslilly2005 wrote: Lilly <tigresslilly2005 Re: Origins of Vedic Astrology! Wednesday, February 24, 2010, 10:40 PM Â //First -- there was the question!In other faiths they insisted that, " First there was light! " How can there be LIGHT unless first the DARKNESS gets questioned, politely?// That's like asking " which came first- the chicken or the egg? " ! If you believe everything in nature to be cyclical, following some divine order or pattern than the order of question comes to never ending. Lilly , " rohinicrystal " <jyotish_vani@ ...> wrote: > > If DIVINITY exists then nothing is truly lost and will arrive back in one form or another! :-) > > If DIVINITY DOES NOT EXIST then we face a problem! We human beings would have to figure it out all by ourselves and recreate all that we think is DIVINE! > > We better get working in that case!! > > I suggest we begin with the first chapter in BPHS -- whichever version we have and that we have studied! > > ... > Maitraiya Uvaacha...! > ... > > First -- there was the question! > > In other faiths they insisted that, " First there was light! " > > How can there be LIGHT unless first the DARKNESS gets questioned, politely? > > By Maitraiya? The quintessential curiosity that was gifted to us and rests often unexplored -- within each of us? In all 'versions' that exist! The CONSTANT = CURIOSITY! > > RR_, > > > , " Suresh Babu.A.G " <sureshbabuag@ > wrote: > > > > //And that is where my fear is and an acute feeling of loss! What if these bodies of knowledge that remain secret die with the only remaining > > owner and its corollary -- written documents that did not or could not > > get published for a variety of reasons and have fallen in the hand of > > later generations who do not know the academic value of these ancient > > writings! God knows how many written accounts on ancient 'leaves' have > > been ill-preserved and possibly eaten up by termites and silverfish and > > other insect! I shudder even at the thought of that...!// > > > > > > Very true. I saw a small booklet which stated that there are 21 vyakhanas for the first verse of Varahara Hora as paramparic teachings but are lost over the time due to the above reasons. > > > > During the early 50's/60's a lot of Manuscripts were taken away by europeans particularly germans & french from several temples in kerala itself. They gave away those without realizing its value. God only knows how many were taken away thus and elsewhere in the world. Today the Sanskrit dictionary both online & printed are by germans - not Indian. That itself is a proof of what we have lost and what we are doing regarding our treasures. > > > > A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani@ > > > > > Thu, February 25, 2010 3:26:24 AM > > Re: Origins of Vedic Astrology! > > > > > > Chandrashekhar jee, > > > > I think it is very well-accepted, as mentioned earlier, that Ancient Indian wisdom, like other ancient wisdom was initially preserved and propagated by the oral tradition. The traces of this tradition probably exist still and not just in Hindu Culture but other religions as well where the emphasis is placed on the memorizing and preservation. And this is not just done as an exercise to improve memory (which is a positive side-benefit) but for preservation of wisdom, literally verbatim. Over time, perhaps memories became lax and things got transferred to writing and then writing got lazier and now we end up with half a dozen versions of a given scriptural text. What has been often lamented upon as the degrading influence of Cull-Yuga. > > > > Anyone who thinks and feels that what is written and available in 'book-stores' is all there is, even in jyotish, is taking too much for granted. I realize that not ALL claims in the name of parampara or secrets of generations may be truly that but there sure is a lot that lies between the printed word and the memories that still exist but do not speak too much publicly. > > > > And that is where my fear is and an acute feeling of loss! What if these bodies of knowledge that remain secret die with the only remaining owner and its corollary -- written documents that did not or could not get published for a variety of reasons and have fallen in the hand of later generations who do not know the academic value of these ancient writings! God knows how many written accounts on ancient 'leaves' have been ill-preserved and possibly eaten up by termites and silverfish and other insect! I shudder even at the thought of that...! > > > > Rohiniranjan > > > > , " Chandrashekhar " <sharma.chandrashek har@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Lilly, > > > > > > You are right. Legend has it that near end of Treta yuga Goddess Parvati said to Lord Shankara that kaliyuga is approaching and the people then shall have innumerable sufferings, so my Lord give a science that will help lessen their sufferings, and the Lord gave astrology which was then carried by Narada to the Bhuloka. But this relates to the prediction for human lives part only. The science of predicting planetary movements including eclipse and omens and their results on kings and populace existed prior to that. Mention of planetary positions at the time of birth of Lord Rama and Lord Krishna are testimony to that. Kaliyuga is said to have begun when Lord Krishna went to his heavenly abode and that is around 3102 BC so the records certainly predate 2700 years, though they were in form of memorizing the texts and manuscripts came later on. > > > > > > Take care, > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > - > > > tigresslilly2005 > > > > > > Wednesday, February 24, 2010 12:26 AM > > > Origins of Vedic Astrology! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Members, > > > > > > Have you ever wondered why we don't have any written documentation, or even history(with proof/ hard core evidence) that dates back prior to to 2,700 years? What was happening prior to that era? Most ancient scriptures date back only that far back in time..It's strange how those rishi's wrote the classics referring to men of Kaliyuga only.. Almost like they could foresee what was to come in the next yuga. > > > > > > Lilly > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2010 Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 Isn't that why you continue to post questions and shy away from providing answers, Tigress? :-) Or receiving those when provided...? Surya is himself only when at the zenith! The only time when He can be understood and faced directly! All other times, HE is accompanied by his consequence: Shadow! The worst times are when he arises or sets! The Shadow kind of overshadows!! RR_, , " Lilly " <tigresslilly2005 wrote: > > //First -- there was the question!In other faiths they insisted that, " First there was light! " How can there be LIGHT unless first the DARKNESS gets questioned, politely?// > > That's like asking " which came first- the chicken or the egg? " ! > If you believe everything in nature to be cyclical, following some divine order or pattern than the order of question comes to never ending. > > Lilly > > > , " rohinicrystal " <jyotish_vani@> wrote: > > > > If DIVINITY exists then nothing is truly lost and will arrive back in one form or another! :-) > > > > If DIVINITY DOES NOT EXIST then we face a problem! We human beings would have to figure it out all by ourselves and recreate all that we think is DIVINE! > > > > We better get working in that case!! > > > > I suggest we begin with the first chapter in BPHS -- whichever version we have and that we have studied! > > > > ... > > Maitraiya Uvaacha...! > > ... > > > > First -- there was the question! > > > > In other faiths they insisted that, " First there was light! " > > > > How can there be LIGHT unless first the DARKNESS gets questioned, politely? > > > > By Maitraiya? The quintessential curiosity that was gifted to us and rests often unexplored -- within each of us? In all 'versions' that exist! The CONSTANT = CURIOSITY! > > > > RR_, > > > > > > , " Suresh Babu.A.G " <sureshbabuag@> wrote: > > > > > > //And that is where my fear is and an acute feeling of loss! What if these bodies of knowledge that remain secret die with the only remaining > > > owner and its corollary -- written documents that did not or could not > > > get published for a variety of reasons and have fallen in the hand of > > > later generations who do not know the academic value of these ancient > > > writings! God knows how many written accounts on ancient 'leaves' have > > > been ill-preserved and possibly eaten up by termites and silverfish and > > > other insect! I shudder even at the thought of that...!// > > > > > > > > > Very true. I saw a small booklet which stated that there are 21 vyakhanas for the first verse of Varahara Hora as paramparic teachings but are lost over the time due to the above reasons. > > > > > > During the early 50's/60's a lot of Manuscripts were taken away by europeans particularly germans & french from several temples in kerala itself. They gave away those without realizing its value. God only knows how many were taken away thus and elsewhere in the world. Today the Sanskrit dictionary both online & printed are by germans - not Indian. That itself is a proof of what we have lost and what we are doing regarding our treasures. > > > > > > A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani@> > > > > > > Thu, February 25, 2010 3:26:24 AM > > > Re: Origins of Vedic Astrology! > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar jee, > > > > > > I think it is very well-accepted, as mentioned earlier, that Ancient Indian wisdom, like other ancient wisdom was initially preserved and propagated by the oral tradition. The traces of this tradition probably exist still and not just in Hindu Culture but other religions as well where the emphasis is placed on the memorizing and preservation. And this is not just done as an exercise to improve memory (which is a positive side-benefit) but for preservation of wisdom, literally verbatim. Over time, perhaps memories became lax and things got transferred to writing and then writing got lazier and now we end up with half a dozen versions of a given scriptural text. What has been often lamented upon as the degrading influence of Cull-Yuga. > > > > > > Anyone who thinks and feels that what is written and available in 'book-stores' is all there is, even in jyotish, is taking too much for granted. I realize that not ALL claims in the name of parampara or secrets of generations may be truly that but there sure is a lot that lies between the printed word and the memories that still exist but do not speak too much publicly. > > > > > > And that is where my fear is and an acute feeling of loss! What if these bodies of knowledge that remain secret die with the only remaining owner and its corollary -- written documents that did not or could not get published for a variety of reasons and have fallen in the hand of later generations who do not know the academic value of these ancient writings! God knows how many written accounts on ancient 'leaves' have been ill-preserved and possibly eaten up by termites and silverfish and other insect! I shudder even at the thought of that...! > > > > > > Rohiniranjan > > > > > > , " Chandrashekhar " <sharma.chandrashek har@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Lilly, > > > > > > > > You are right. Legend has it that near end of Treta yuga Goddess Parvati said to Lord Shankara that kaliyuga is approaching and the people then shall have innumerable sufferings, so my Lord give a science that will help lessen their sufferings, and the Lord gave astrology which was then carried by Narada to the Bhuloka. But this relates to the prediction for human lives part only. The science of predicting planetary movements including eclipse and omens and their results on kings and populace existed prior to that. Mention of planetary positions at the time of birth of Lord Rama and Lord Krishna are testimony to that. Kaliyuga is said to have begun when Lord Krishna went to his heavenly abode and that is around 3102 BC so the records certainly predate 2700 years, though they were in form of memorizing the texts and manuscripts came later on. > > > > > > > > Take care, > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > - > > > > tigresslilly2005 > > > > > > > > Wednesday, February 24, 2010 12:26 AM > > > > Origins of Vedic Astrology! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Members, > > > > > > > > Have you ever wondered why we don't have any written documentation, or even history(with proof/ hard core evidence) that dates back prior to to 2,700 years? What was happening prior to that era? Most ancient scriptures date back only that far back in time..It's strange how those rishi's wrote the classics referring to men of Kaliyuga only.. Almost like they could foresee what was to come in the next yuga. > > > > > > > > Lilly > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2010 Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 What comes first, if I may, is the void where the question eventually finds home! Like the void where eventually is placed an egg and eventually an outcome: ANSWER! VOID creates negative emotions and negative affect and HUNGER! Foraging begins therefrom! VOID has been identified as the first cry where some agree, life begins! The metaphorical *stork* drops the baby and the 'toddling' begins! All the way up until the grave or crematorium. It is what lies between the beginning (ibtedah) and the end (intehaa) is what the survivors speak of in glory of the recently departed at the memorial! THE CONSTANT THAT NEVER CHANGES! RR_, , PG <darshan261 wrote: > > I do not think it is what comes first chicken or the egg. In this instance it is always question . Even if one believes that they might have an answer the curiousity that there may yet be another answer is the constant question. I agree the constant curiosity is the path to progressively greater understanding. > Ashok Goswami > > --- On Wed, 2/24/10, Lilly <tigresslilly2005 wrote: > > Lilly <tigresslilly2005 > Re: Origins of Vedic Astrology! > > Wednesday, February 24, 2010, 10:40 PM > Â > > > //First -- there was the question!In other faiths they insisted that, " First there was light! " How can there be LIGHT unless first the DARKNESS gets questioned, politely?// > > > > That's like asking " which came first- the chicken or the egg? " ! > > If you believe everything in nature to be cyclical, following some divine order or pattern than the order of question comes to never ending. > > > > Lilly > > > > , " rohinicrystal " <jyotish_vani@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > If DIVINITY exists then nothing is truly lost and will arrive back in one form or another! :-) > > > > > > If DIVINITY DOES NOT EXIST then we face a problem! We human beings would have to figure it out all by ourselves and recreate all that we think is DIVINE! > > > > > > We better get working in that case!! > > > > > > I suggest we begin with the first chapter in BPHS -- whichever version we have and that we have studied! > > > > > > ... > > > Maitraiya Uvaacha...! > > > ... > > > > > > First -- there was the question! > > > > > > In other faiths they insisted that, " First there was light! " > > > > > > How can there be LIGHT unless first the DARKNESS gets questioned, politely? > > > > > > By Maitraiya? The quintessential curiosity that was gifted to us and rests often unexplored -- within each of us? In all 'versions' that exist! The CONSTANT = CURIOSITY! > > > > > > RR_, > > > > > > > > > , " Suresh Babu.A.G " <sureshbabuag@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > //And that is where my fear is and an acute feeling of loss! What if these bodies of knowledge that remain secret die with the only remaining > > > > owner and its corollary -- written documents that did not or could not > > > > get published for a variety of reasons and have fallen in the hand of > > > > later generations who do not know the academic value of these ancient > > > > writings! God knows how many written accounts on ancient 'leaves' have > > > > been ill-preserved and possibly eaten up by termites and silverfish and > > > > other insect! I shudder even at the thought of that...!// > > > > > > > > > > > > Very true. I saw a small booklet which stated that there are 21 vyakhanas for the first verse of Varahara Hora as paramparic teachings but are lost over the time due to the above reasons. > > > > > > > > During the early 50's/60's a lot of Manuscripts were taken away by europeans particularly germans & french from several temples in kerala itself. They gave away those without realizing its value. God only knows how many were taken away thus and elsewhere in the world. Today the Sanskrit dictionary both online & printed are by germans - not Indian. That itself is a proof of what we have lost and what we are doing regarding our treasures. > > > > > > > > A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > > rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani@ > > > > > > > > > Thu, February 25, 2010 3:26:24 AM > > > > Re: Origins of Vedic Astrology! > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar jee, > > > > > > > > I think it is very well-accepted, as mentioned earlier, that Ancient Indian wisdom, like other ancient wisdom was initially preserved and propagated by the oral tradition. The traces of this tradition probably exist still and not just in Hindu Culture but other religions as well where the emphasis is placed on the memorizing and preservation. And this is not just done as an exercise to improve memory (which is a positive side-benefit) but for preservation of wisdom, literally verbatim. Over time, perhaps memories became lax and things got transferred to writing and then writing got lazier and now we end up with half a dozen versions of a given scriptural text. What has been often lamented upon as the degrading influence of Cull-Yuga. > > > > > > > > Anyone who thinks and feels that what is written and available in 'book-stores' is all there is, even in jyotish, is taking too much for granted. I realize that not ALL claims in the name of parampara or secrets of generations may be truly that but there sure is a lot that lies between the printed word and the memories that still exist but do not speak too much publicly. > > > > > > > > And that is where my fear is and an acute feeling of loss! What if these bodies of knowledge that remain secret die with the only remaining owner and its corollary -- written documents that did not or could not get published for a variety of reasons and have fallen in the hand of later generations who do not know the academic value of these ancient writings! God knows how many written accounts on ancient 'leaves' have been ill-preserved and possibly eaten up by termites and silverfish and other insect! I shudder even at the thought of that...! > > > > > > > > Rohiniranjan > > > > > > > > , " Chandrashekhar " <sharma.chandrashek har@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lilly, > > > > > > > > > > You are right. Legend has it that near end of Treta yuga Goddess Parvati said to Lord Shankara that kaliyuga is approaching and the people then shall have innumerable sufferings, so my Lord give a science that will help lessen their sufferings, and the Lord gave astrology which was then carried by Narada to the Bhuloka. But this relates to the prediction for human lives part only. The science of predicting planetary movements including eclipse and omens and their results on kings and populace existed prior to that. Mention of planetary positions at the time of birth of Lord Rama and Lord Krishna are testimony to that. Kaliyuga is said to have begun when Lord Krishna went to his heavenly abode and that is around 3102 BC so the records certainly predate 2700 years, though they were in form of memorizing the texts and manuscripts came later on. > > > > > > > > > > Take care, > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > tigresslilly2005 > > > > > > > > > > Wednesday, February 24, 2010 12:26 AM > > > > > Origins of Vedic Astrology! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Members, > > > > > > > > > > Have you ever wondered why we don't have any written documentation, or even history(with proof/ hard core evidence) that dates back prior to to 2,700 years? What was happening prior to that era? Most ancient scriptures date back only that far back in time..It's strange how those rishi's wrote the classics referring to men of Kaliyuga only.. Almost like they could foresee what was to come in the next yuga. > > > > > > > > > > Lilly > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2010 Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 Dear Sirs. The best way for clarity is to consider from Parasaras statement itself and we know from this time onwards existence of some form of statement/publications have sprung.whether they were retained /preserved or otherwise. Parsaras words " 'in the preset era Dharma raja of mahabharata it was expected that salivahana will have the same yogas of Dharma Raja.we only have establishes data of sage saunaka,preceptor of Parasara also considered to be reputed author of Rigveda Pratisakhya and other cedic Compositions.Saunaka's Guru was Narada Maha Muni ,son of Brahma Pitamaha.Origin of Jyitisha therefore has roots in the instructions of Pitamaha and this was referred by sage Parasra. PARASARATMAJA(shri veda Vyas) era is considered as AD72 and he seems to be have experience Mahabharata era.The whole thing was Guru Sishya Parmapara,the way of transmission of Knowledge by way of discourse. In this context along with Narada samhita along with Parasara Smriti,Parasara samhita and finally Parasara Hora are some of the publications in some form have been textualised.Their veracity and availability in textual form and as written in textual in palm leaves are beyond us to grope in.. The Fiath has hwoever envisaged Vishnu as the author,has no beginning and administers with quarter of power..That way the Principle evolver is bother perceptible and imperciptable.So the issue skips over " to knowable philosophers " Probably these accounts available give us indication of the universe and it's origin.Finally credit perhaps is given in the words of Parsara as Janradana.An unborn lord? to have incarnated planets. It's authentication or otherwise is left left to the nuances of the members efforts to unearth and date the knowledge and to satiate their penchant. Vattem Krishnan Cyber Jyotish Services(For all counseling services)Dr.B.V.Raman " Fools Obey Planets While  Wisemen Can Control Them " Planets are neutral Controllers of Mans Karma --- On Wed, 2/24/10, Suresh Babu.A.G <sureshbabuag wrote: Suresh Babu.A.G <sureshbabuag Re: Origins of Vedic Astrology! Wednesday, February 24, 2010, 10:06 PM  //And that is where my fear is and an acute feeling of loss! What if these bodies of knowledge that remain secret die with the only remaining owner and its corollary -- written documents that did not or could not get published for a variety of reasons and have fallen in the hand of later generations who do not know the academic value of these ancient writings! God knows how many written accounts on ancient 'leaves' have been ill-preserved and possibly eaten up by termites and silverfish and other insect! I shudder even at the thought of that...!// Very true. I saw a small booklet which stated that there are 21 vyakhanas for the first verse of Varahara Hora as paramparic teachings but are lost over the time due to the above reasons. During the early 50's/60's a lot of Manuscripts were taken away by europeans particularly germans & french from several temples in kerala itself. They gave away those without realizing its value. God only knows how many were taken away thus and elsewhere in the world. Today the Sanskrit dictionary both online & printed are by germans - not Indian. That itself is a proof of what we have lost and what we are doing regarding our treasures. A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy ____________ _________ _________ __ rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani@ hotmail.com> Thu, February 25, 2010 3:26:24 AM Re: Origins of Vedic Astrology! Chandrashekhar jee, I think it is very well-accepted, as mentioned earlier, that Ancient Indian wisdom, like other ancient wisdom was initially preserved and propagated by the oral tradition. The traces of this tradition probably exist still and not just in Hindu Culture but other religions as well where the emphasis is placed on the memorizing and preservation. And this is not just done as an exercise to improve memory (which is a positive side-benefit) but for preservation of wisdom, literally verbatim. Over time, perhaps memories became lax and things got transferred to writing and then writing got lazier and now we end up with half a dozen versions of a given scriptural text. What has been often lamented upon as the degrading influence of Cull-Yuga. Anyone who thinks and feels that what is written and available in 'book-stores' is all there is, even in jyotish, is taking too much for granted. I realize that not ALL claims in the name of parampara or secrets of generations may be truly that but there sure is a lot that lies between the printed word and the memories that still exist but do not speak too much publicly. And that is where my fear is and an acute feeling of loss! What if these bodies of knowledge that remain secret die with the only remaining owner and its corollary -- written documents that did not or could not get published for a variety of reasons and have fallen in the hand of later generations who do not know the academic value of these ancient writings! God knows how many written accounts on ancient 'leaves' have been ill-preserved and possibly eaten up by termites and silverfish and other insect! I shudder even at the thought of that...! Rohiniranjan , " Chandrashekhar " <sharma.chandrashek har wrote: > > Dear Lilly, > > You are right. Legend has it that near end of Treta yuga Goddess Parvati said to Lord Shankara that kaliyuga is approaching and the people then shall have innumerable sufferings, so my Lord give a science that will help lessen their sufferings, and the Lord gave astrology which was then carried by Narada to the Bhuloka. But this relates to the prediction for human lives part only. The science of predicting planetary movements including eclipse and omens and their results on kings and populace existed prior to that. Mention of planetary positions at the time of birth of Lord Rama and Lord Krishna are testimony to that. Kaliyuga is said to have begun when Lord Krishna went to his heavenly abode and that is around 3102 BC so the records certainly predate 2700 years, though they were in form of memorizing the texts and manuscripts came later on. > > Take care, > Chandrashekhar. > > - > tigresslilly2005 > > Wednesday, February 24, 2010 12:26 AM > Origins of Vedic Astrology! > > > > > Dear Members, > > Have you ever wondered why we don't have any written documentation, or even history(with proof/ hard core evidence) that dates back prior to to 2,700 years? What was happening prior to that era? Most ancient scriptures date back only that far back in time..It's strange how those rishi's wrote the classics referring to men of Kaliyuga only.. Almost like they could foresee what was to come in the next yuga. > > Lilly > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2010 Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 Probably the beginning and end all in understanding the universe.These are essentially visible Panch Bhootas.This certainls takes into account Voids.these voids probably have beginnings for how ,what and why making the oriigins foe a Sastra or a science and even Tarka. Vattem Krishnan Cyber Jyotish Services(For all counseling services)Dr.B.V.Raman " Fools Obey Planets While  Wisemen Can Control Them " Planets are neutral Controllers of Mans Karma --- On Wed, 2/24/10, rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani wrote: rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani Re: Origins of Vedic Astrology! Wednesday, February 24, 2010, 11:49 PM  What comes first, if I may, is the void where the question eventually finds home! Like the void where eventually is placed an egg and eventually an outcome: ANSWER! VOID creates negative emotions and negative affect and HUNGER! Foraging begins therefrom! VOID has been identified as the first cry where some agree, life begins! The metaphorical *stork* drops the baby and the 'toddling' begins! All the way up until the grave or crematorium. It is what lies between the beginning (ibtedah) and the end (intehaa) is what the survivors speak of in glory of the recently departed at the memorial! THE CONSTANT THAT NEVER CHANGES! RR_, , PG <darshan261@ ...> wrote: > > I do not think it is what comes first chicken or the egg. In this instance it is always question . Even if one believes that they might have an answer the curiousity that there may yet be another answer is the constant question. I agree the constant curiosity is the path to progressively greater understanding. > Ashok Goswami > > --- On Wed, 2/24/10, Lilly <tigresslilly2005@ ...> wrote: > > Lilly <tigresslilly2005@ ...> > Re: Origins of Vedic Astrology! > > Wednesday, February 24, 2010, 10:40 PM > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > //First -- there was the question!In other faiths they insisted that, " First there was light! " How can there be LIGHT unless first the DARKNESS gets questioned, politely?// > > > > That's like asking " which came first- the chicken or the egg? " ! > > If you believe everything in nature to be cyclical, following some divine order or pattern than the order of question comes to never ending. > > > > Lilly > > > > , " rohinicrystal " <jyotish_vani@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > If DIVINITY exists then nothing is truly lost and will arrive back in one form or another! :-) > > > > > > If DIVINITY DOES NOT EXIST then we face a problem! We human beings would have to figure it out all by ourselves and recreate all that we think is DIVINE! > > > > > > We better get working in that case!! > > > > > > I suggest we begin with the first chapter in BPHS -- whichever version we have and that we have studied! > > > > > > ... > > > Maitraiya Uvaacha...! > > > ... > > > > > > First -- there was the question! > > > > > > In other faiths they insisted that, " First there was light! " > > > > > > How can there be LIGHT unless first the DARKNESS gets questioned, politely? > > > > > > By Maitraiya? The quintessential curiosity that was gifted to us and rests often unexplored -- within each of us? In all 'versions' that exist! The CONSTANT = CURIOSITY! > > > > > > RR_, > > > > > > > > > , " Suresh Babu.A.G " <sureshbabuag@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > //And that is where my fear is and an acute feeling of loss! What if these bodies of knowledge that remain secret die with the only remaining > > > > owner and its corollary -- written documents that did not or could not > > > > get published for a variety of reasons and have fallen in the hand of > > > > later generations who do not know the academic value of these ancient > > > > writings! God knows how many written accounts on ancient 'leaves' have > > > > been ill-preserved and possibly eaten up by termites and silverfish and > > > > other insect! I shudder even at the thought of that...!// > > > > > > > > > > > > Very true. I saw a small booklet which stated that there are 21 vyakhanas for the first verse of Varahara Hora as paramparic teachings but are lost over the time due to the above reasons. > > > > > > > > During the early 50's/60's a lot of Manuscripts were taken away by europeans particularly germans & french from several temples in kerala itself. They gave away those without realizing its value. God only knows how many were taken away thus and elsewhere in the world. Today the Sanskrit dictionary both online & printed are by germans - not Indian. That itself is a proof of what we have lost and what we are doing regarding our treasures. > > > > > > > > A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > > rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani@ > > > > > > > > > Thu, February 25, 2010 3:26:24 AM > > > > Re: Origins of Vedic Astrology! > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar jee, > > > > > > > > I think it is very well-accepted, as mentioned earlier, that Ancient Indian wisdom, like other ancient wisdom was initially preserved and propagated by the oral tradition. The traces of this tradition probably exist still and not just in Hindu Culture but other religions as well where the emphasis is placed on the memorizing and preservation. And this is not just done as an exercise to improve memory (which is a positive side-benefit) but for preservation of wisdom, literally verbatim. Over time, perhaps memories became lax and things got transferred to writing and then writing got lazier and now we end up with half a dozen versions of a given scriptural text. What has been often lamented upon as the degrading influence of Cull-Yuga. > > > > > > > > Anyone who thinks and feels that what is written and available in 'book-stores' is all there is, even in jyotish, is taking too much for granted. I realize that not ALL claims in the name of parampara or secrets of generations may be truly that but there sure is a lot that lies between the printed word and the memories that still exist but do not speak too much publicly. > > > > > > > > And that is where my fear is and an acute feeling of loss! What if these bodies of knowledge that remain secret die with the only remaining owner and its corollary -- written documents that did not or could not get published for a variety of reasons and have fallen in the hand of later generations who do not know the academic value of these ancient writings! God knows how many written accounts on ancient 'leaves' have been ill-preserved and possibly eaten up by termites and silverfish and other insect! I shudder even at the thought of that...! > > > > > > > > Rohiniranjan > > > > > > > > , " Chandrashekhar " <sharma.chandrashek har@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lilly, > > > > > > > > > > You are right. Legend has it that near end of Treta yuga Goddess Parvati said to Lord Shankara that kaliyuga is approaching and the people then shall have innumerable sufferings, so my Lord give a science that will help lessen their sufferings, and the Lord gave astrology which was then carried by Narada to the Bhuloka. But this relates to the prediction for human lives part only. The science of predicting planetary movements including eclipse and omens and their results on kings and populace existed prior to that. Mention of planetary positions at the time of birth of Lord Rama and Lord Krishna are testimony to that. Kaliyuga is said to have begun when Lord Krishna went to his heavenly abode and that is around 3102 BC so the records certainly predate 2700 years, though they were in form of memorizing the texts and manuscripts came later on. > > > > > > > > > > Take care, > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > tigresslilly2005 > > > > > > > > > > Wednesday, February 24, 2010 12:26 AM > > > > > Origins of Vedic Astrology! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Members, > > > > > > > > > > Have you ever wondered why we don't have any written documentation, or even history(with proof/ hard core evidence) that dates back prior to to 2,700 years? What was happening prior to that era? Most ancient scriptures date back only that far back in time..It's strange how those rishi's wrote the classics referring to men of Kaliyuga only.. Almost like they could foresee what was to come in the next yuga. > > > > > > > > > > Lilly > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2010 Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 Dear Krishna ji, RRji, Lilly, well for what we see of Steven Hawkings version of the big bang theory on evolution [he is a atheist as such] the result of the big band in a graphic form is nothing but the AUM or Om the vedic word PRANAVA NADAM or the first sound. ONLY DIFF IS IT HAS A 90 DEG SHIFT in appearance. May be if we see it from the clesstial equator it canappear as we see it from Vedic picture. Most of the Vedic literature is cryptic and as said a few times i multi layeerd and students had started with mastering or memorising the Amara Kosha or a 8 lak word composition and its meanings too were taught but really what they got grew with time, experiences in different walks of life from a student to a pro. and more as they evolved into different levels of beings in their respective sphere and manytimes they had more than one dimension lives, we can''t get confused with the lack of evidence on the curent scales or relics as we have not spent anytime, money or digging our past, and inthe west Crusades destroyed all the past civilasitions, its heritage, literature, art to dust no worthwile relics r left in India the Islamic invaders destroyed a lot of what was there be it Nalanda the 1st great university, taxisila, the temples of Kasi, Mathura, Ayodhya, Taj, in south the Halebidu, Hampi and so on. Best wishes - G B Prashant Kumar Life Member ICAS. /database?method=reportRows & tbl=6 ________________________________ Vattem Krishnan <bursar_99 Thu, February 25, 2010 10:53:29 AM Re: Origins of Vedic Astrology! Probably the beginning and end all in understanding the universe.These are essentially visible Panch Bhootas.This certainls takes into account Voids.these voids probably have beginnings for how ,what and why making the oriigins foe a Sastra or a science and even Tarka. Vattem Krishnan Cyber Jyotish Services(For all counseling services)Dr. B.V.Raman " Fools Obey Planets While Wisemen Can Control Them " Planets are neutral Controllers of Mans Karma --- On Wed, 2/24/10, rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani@ hotmail.com> wrote: rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani@ hotmail.com> Re: Origins of Vedic Astrology! Wednesday, February 24, 2010, 11:49 PM What comes first, if I may, is the void where the question eventually finds home! Like the void where eventually is placed an egg and eventually an outcome: ANSWER! VOID creates negative emotions and negative affect and HUNGER! Foraging begins therefrom! VOID has been identified as the first cry where some agree, life begins! The metaphorical *stork* drops the baby and the 'toddling' begins! All the way up until the grave or crematorium. It is what lies between the beginning (ibtedah) and the end (intehaa) is what the survivors speak of in glory of the recently departed at the memorial! THE CONSTANT THAT NEVER CHANGES! RR_, , PG <darshan261@ ...> wrote: > > I do not think it is what comes first chicken or the egg. In this instance it is always question . Even if one believes that they might have an answer the curiousity that there may yet be another answer is the constant question. I agree the constant curiosity is the path to progressively greater understanding. > Ashok Goswami > > --- On Wed, 2/24/10, Lilly <tigresslilly2005@ ...> wrote: > > Lilly <tigresslilly2005@ ...> > Re: Origins of Vedic Astrology! > > Wednesday, February 24, 2010, 10:40 PM > > > > > > > > Â > > > > > > > > > > //First -- there was the question!In other faiths they insisted that, " First there was light! " How can there be LIGHT unless first the DARKNESS gets questioned, politely?// > > > > That's like asking " which came first- the chicken or the egg? " ! > > If you believe everything in nature to be cyclical, following some divine order or pattern than the order of question comes to never ending. > > > > Lilly > > > > , " rohinicrystal " <jyotish_vani@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > If DIVINITY exists then nothing is truly lost and will arrive back in one form or another! :-) > > > > > > If DIVINITY DOES NOT EXIST then we face a problem! We human beings would have to figure it out all by ourselves and recreate all that we think is DIVINE! > > > > > > We better get working in that case!! > > > > > > I suggest we begin with the first chapter in BPHS -- whichever version we have and that we have studied! > > > > > > ... > > > Maitraiya Uvaacha...! > > > ... > > > > > > First -- there was the question! > > > > > > In other faiths they insisted that, " First there was light! " > > > > > > How can there be LIGHT unless first the DARKNESS gets questioned, politely? > > > > > > By Maitraiya? The quintessential curiosity that was gifted to us and rests often unexplored -- within each of us? In all 'versions' that exist! The CONSTANT = CURIOSITY! > > > > > > RR_, > > > > > > > > > , " Suresh Babu.A.G " <sureshbabuag@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > //And that is where my fear is and an acute feeling of loss! What if these bodies of knowledge that remain secret die with the only remaining > > > > owner and its corollary -- written documents that did not or could not > > > > get published for a variety of reasons and have fallen in the hand of > > > > later generations who do not know the academic value of these ancient > > > > writings! God knows how many written accounts on ancient 'leaves' have > > > > been ill-preserved and possibly eaten up by termites and silverfish and > > > > other insect! I shudder even at the thought of that...!// > > > > > > > > > > > > Very true. I saw a small booklet which stated that there are 21 vyakhanas for the first verse of Varahara Hora as paramparic teachings but are lost over the time due to the above reasons. > > > > > > > > During the early 50's/60's a lot of Manuscripts were taken away by europeans particularly germans & french from several temples in kerala itself. They gave away those without realizing its value. God only knows how many were taken away thus and elsewhere in the world. Today the Sanskrit dictionary both online & printed are by germans - not Indian. That itself is a proof of what we have lost and what we are doing regarding our treasures. > > > > > > > > A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > > rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani@ > > > > > > > > > Thu, February 25, 2010 3:26:24 AM > > > > Re: Origins of Vedic Astrology! > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar jee, > > > > > > > > I think it is very well-accepted, as mentioned earlier, that Ancient Indian wisdom, like other ancient wisdom was initially preserved and propagated by the oral tradition. The traces of this tradition probably exist still and not just in Hindu Culture but other religions as well where the emphasis is placed on the memorizing and preservation. And this is not just done as an exercise to improve memory (which is a positive side-benefit) but for preservation of wisdom, literally verbatim. Over time, perhaps memories became lax and things got transferred to writing and then writing got lazier and now we end up with half a dozen versions of a given scriptural text. What has been often lamented upon as the degrading influence of Cull-Yuga. > > > > > > > > Anyone who thinks and feels that what is written and available in 'book-stores' is all there is, even in jyotish, is taking too much for granted. I realize that not ALL claims in the name of parampara or secrets of generations may be truly that but there sure is a lot that lies between the printed word and the memories that still exist but do not speak too much publicly. > > > > > > > > And that is where my fear is and an acute feeling of loss! What if these bodies of knowledge that remain secret die with the only remaining owner and its corollary -- written documents that did not or could not get published for a variety of reasons and have fallen in the hand of later generations who do not know the academic value of these ancient writings! God knows how many written accounts on ancient 'leaves' have been ill-preserved and possibly eaten up by termites and silverfish and other insect! I shudder even at the thought of that...! > > > > > > > > Rohiniranjan > > > > > > > > , " Chandrashekhar " <sharma.chandrashek har@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lilly, > > > > > > > > > > You are right. Legend has it that near end of Treta yuga Goddess Parvati said to Lord Shankara that kaliyuga is approaching and the people then shall have innumerable sufferings, so my Lord give a science that will help lessen their sufferings, and the Lord gave astrology which was then carried by Narada to the Bhuloka. But this relates to the prediction for human lives part only. The science of predicting planetary movements including eclipse and omens and their results on kings and populace existed prior to that. Mention of planetary positions at the time of birth of Lord Rama and Lord Krishna are testimony to that. Kaliyuga is said to have begun when Lord Krishna went to his heavenly abode and that is around 3102 BC so the records certainly predate 2700 years, though they were in form of memorizing the texts and manuscripts came later on. > > > > > > > > > > Take care, > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > tigresslilly2005 > > > > > > > > > > Wednesday, February 24, 2010 12:26 AM > > > > > Origins of Vedic Astrology! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Members, > > > > > > > > > > Have you ever wondered why we don't have any written documentation, or even history(with proof/ hard core evidence) that dates back prior to to 2,700 years? What was happening prior to that era? Most ancient scriptures date back only that far back in time..It's strange how those rishi's wrote the classics referring to men of Kaliyuga only.. Almost like they could foresee what was to come in the next yuga. > > > > > > > > > > Lilly > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2010 Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 hello sirs, We all know that sage Parasara was responsible for giving a new life to the present day astrology,by writing book Hora..The book contains astrological principles that were followed in some famous ashrams,at that time..I think that sage Parasara did not invent astrology by himself.He collected all the material and go it written,of course he might have given more importance to some principles,which he believed to be more true.. Similarly,sage Vyasa codified all the philosophical principles of Upanishads and named it Bhagavadgita.. Sage Varahamihira principles of astrology are quite different and his book does not take into consideration lordship of planets,as far as i know Though the book Jaimini sutras is available,very few people are following those principles.Some chapters are not understood properly.due to the code language used.. Many of the nadi astrology books written in tamil,appear to be knowing the principles of Parasara..But ,there was no book which codifies and clarifies Nadi astrology. I heard that in Kerala,they calculate the longevity of spirits and plants also.The Prasna sastra that is followed in Kerala is unique. There is a proverb in telugu that dont try to find out the lineage of warriors and yogis.. The leelas of god are varied and not amenable to any formula.. The formulas which we know about astrology in the form Vedic astrology,may be minute.There may be some other formulas.It is said that Mayan civilisation also knows astrology.We dont know their formulas.. I think we need not worry that out ancient astrology is lost.It will take rebirth again.. Thanks all astrologers of this forum for giving me your valuable time. Namaste K.Umamaheswara rao retd officer,Andhra pradesh. ________________________________ Vattem Krishnan <bursar_99 Thu, 25 February, 2010 10:53:29 AM Re: Origins of Vedic Astrology! Probably the beginning and end all in understanding the universe.These are essentially visible Panch Bhootas.This certainls takes into account Voids.these voids probably have beginnings for how ,what and why making the oriigins foe a Sastra or a science and even Tarka. Vattem Krishnan Cyber Jyotish Services(For all counseling services)Dr. B.V.Raman " Fools Obey Planets While Wisemen Can Control Them " Planets are neutral Controllers of Mans Karma --- On Wed, 2/24/10, rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani@ hotmail.com> wrote: rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani@ hotmail.com> Re: Origins of Vedic Astrology! Wednesday, February 24, 2010, 11:49 PM What comes first, if I may, is the void where the question eventually finds home! Like the void where eventually is placed an egg and eventually an outcome: ANSWER! VOID creates negative emotions and negative affect and HUNGER! Foraging begins therefrom! VOID has been identified as the first cry where some agree, life begins! The metaphorical *stork* drops the baby and the 'toddling' begins! All the way up until the grave or crematorium. It is what lies between the beginning (ibtedah) and the end (intehaa) is what the survivors speak of in glory of the recently departed at the memorial! THE CONSTANT THAT NEVER CHANGES! RR_, , PG <darshan261@ ...> wrote: > > I do not think it is what comes first chicken or the egg. In this instance it is always question . Even if one believes that they might have an answer the curiousity that there may yet be another answer is the constant question. I agree the constant curiosity is the path to progressively greater understanding. > Ashok Goswami > > --- On Wed, 2/24/10, Lilly <tigresslilly2005@ ...> wrote: > > Lilly <tigresslilly2005@ ...> > Re: Origins of Vedic Astrology! > > Wednesday, February 24, 2010, 10:40 PM > > > > > > > > Â > > > > > > > > > > //First -- there was the question!In other faiths they insisted that, " First there was light! " How can there be LIGHT unless first the DARKNESS gets questioned, politely?// > > > > That's like asking " which came first- the chicken or the egg? " ! > > If you believe everything in nature to be cyclical, following some divine order or pattern than the order of question comes to never ending. > > > > Lilly > > > > , " rohinicrystal " <jyotish_vani@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > If DIVINITY exists then nothing is truly lost and will arrive back in one form or another! :-) > > > > > > If DIVINITY DOES NOT EXIST then we face a problem! We human beings would have to figure it out all by ourselves and recreate all that we think is DIVINE! > > > > > > We better get working in that case!! > > > > > > I suggest we begin with the first chapter in BPHS -- whichever version we have and that we have studied! > > > > > > ... > > > Maitraiya Uvaacha...! > > > ... > > > > > > First -- there was the question! > > > > > > In other faiths they insisted that, " First there was light! " > > > > > > How can there be LIGHT unless first the DARKNESS gets questioned, politely? > > > > > > By Maitraiya? The quintessential curiosity that was gifted to us and rests often unexplored -- within each of us? In all 'versions' that exist! The CONSTANT = CURIOSITY! > > > > > > RR_, > > > > > > > > > , " Suresh Babu.A.G " <sureshbabuag@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > //And that is where my fear is and an acute feeling of loss! What if these bodies of knowledge that remain secret die with the only remaining > > > > owner and its corollary -- written documents that did not or could not > > > > get published for a variety of reasons and have fallen in the hand of > > > > later generations who do not know the academic value of these ancient > > > > writings! God knows how many written accounts on ancient 'leaves' have > > > > been ill-preserved and possibly eaten up by termites and silverfish and > > > > other insect! I shudder even at the thought of that...!// > > > > > > > > > > > > Very true. I saw a small booklet which stated that there are 21 vyakhanas for the first verse of Varahara Hora as paramparic teachings but are lost over the time due to the above reasons. > > > > > > > > During the early 50's/60's a lot of Manuscripts were taken away by europeans particularly germans & french from several temples in kerala itself. They gave away those without realizing its value. God only knows how many were taken away thus and elsewhere in the world. Today the Sanskrit dictionary both online & printed are by germans - not Indian. That itself is a proof of what we have lost and what we are doing regarding our treasures. > > > > > > > > A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > > rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani@ > > > > > > > > > Thu, February 25, 2010 3:26:24 AM > > > > Re: Origins of Vedic Astrology! > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar jee, > > > > > > > > I think it is very well-accepted, as mentioned earlier, that Ancient Indian wisdom, like other ancient wisdom was initially preserved and propagated by the oral tradition. The traces of this tradition probably exist still and not just in Hindu Culture but other religions as well where the emphasis is placed on the memorizing and preservation. And this is not just done as an exercise to improve memory (which is a positive side-benefit) but for preservation of wisdom, literally verbatim. Over time, perhaps memories became lax and things got transferred to writing and then writing got lazier and now we end up with half a dozen versions of a given scriptural text. What has been often lamented upon as the degrading influence of Cull-Yuga. > > > > > > > > Anyone who thinks and feels that what is written and available in 'book-stores' is all there is, even in jyotish, is taking too much for granted. I realize that not ALL claims in the name of parampara or secrets of generations may be truly that but there sure is a lot that lies between the printed word and the memories that still exist but do not speak too much publicly. > > > > > > > > And that is where my fear is and an acute feeling of loss! What if these bodies of knowledge that remain secret die with the only remaining owner and its corollary -- written documents that did not or could not get published for a variety of reasons and have fallen in the hand of later generations who do not know the academic value of these ancient writings! God knows how many written accounts on ancient 'leaves' have been ill-preserved and possibly eaten up by termites and silverfish and other insect! I shudder even at the thought of that...! > > > > > > > > Rohiniranjan > > > > > > > > , " Chandrashekhar " <sharma.chandrashek har@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lilly, > > > > > > > > > > You are right. Legend has it that near end of Treta yuga Goddess Parvati said to Lord Shankara that kaliyuga is approaching and the people then shall have innumerable sufferings, so my Lord give a science that will help lessen their sufferings, and the Lord gave astrology which was then carried by Narada to the Bhuloka. But this relates to the prediction for human lives part only. The science of predicting planetary movements including eclipse and omens and their results on kings and populace existed prior to that. Mention of planetary positions at the time of birth of Lord Rama and Lord Krishna are testimony to that. Kaliyuga is said to have begun when Lord Krishna went to his heavenly abode and that is around 3102 BC so the records certainly predate 2700 years, though they were in form of memorizing the texts and manuscripts came later on. > > > > > > > > > > Take care, > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > tigresslilly2005 > > > > > > > > > > Wednesday, February 24, 2010 12:26 AM > > > > > Origins of Vedic Astrology! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Members, > > > > > > > > > > Have you ever wondered why we don't have any written documentation, or even history(with proof/ hard core evidence) that dates back prior to to 2,700 years? What was happening prior to that era? Most ancient scriptures date back only that far back in time..It's strange how those rishi's wrote the classics referring to men of Kaliyuga only.. Almost like they could foresee what was to come in the next yuga. > > > > > > > > > > Lilly > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2010 Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 Dear Kakumanu Rao. there r many of the rishies in Vedic heritage and is is also common for children to name their children after their parents so have been many of the rishies as well now the word Vyasa means a compile this can be any compiler of any work be it music, art, sculpture, literature, medicine, ... when we talk of Veda Vyasa there is one and only one we refer to as Vyasa muni or whatever. similarly there r many Jaimini rishies as well and one who compiled the Jaimini Sutras is the disciple, son of Parasara himself. a total off the line succession and follows the opposites of parasara model and both forms r prevailent, except that Jaimini codified the subject so cryptically in a few lines it is paced with a lot though short so not many r competitent in it or have given it a real run as comparatively parasara's school has many later evolutions with various scholars giving their versions of what they got from the main tree and called it in different names. Varahmira has also compiled many works and this is more a collection collage as he quite often said Parasra said so, garga said so , Yavanaacharya said so, no where he said it is his views, experiences etc. [again their are many Varhamiras but one who compiled Brihat Jataka, Brihat samhita is what we normally are tallking off] Best wishes - G B Prashant Kumar Life Member ICAS. /database?method=reportRows & tbl=6 ________________________________ Kakumanu Rao <kumrao100 Thu, February 25, 2010 4:25:08 PM Re: Origins of Vedic Astrology! hello sirs, We all know that sage Parasara was responsible for giving a new life to the present day astrology,by writing book Hora..The book contains astrological principles that were followed in some famous ashrams,at that time..I think that sage Parasara did not invent astrology by himself.He collected all the material and go it written,of course he might have given more importance to some principles,which he believed to be more true.. Similarly,sage Vyasa codified all the philosophical principles of Upanishads and named it Bhagavadgita. . Sage Varahamihira principles of astrology are quite different and his book does not take into consideration lordship of planets,as far as i know Though the book Jaimini sutras is available,very few people are following those principles.Some chapters are not understood properly.due to the code language used.. Many of the nadi astrology books written in tamil,appear to be knowing the principles of Parasara..But ,there was no book which codifies and clarifies Nadi astrology. I heard that in Kerala,they calculate the longevity of spirits and plants also.The Prasna sastra that is followed in Kerala is unique. There is a proverb in telugu that dont try to find out the lineage of warriors and yogis.. The leelas of god are varied and not amenable to any formula.. The formulas which we know about astrology in the form Vedic astrology,may be minute.There may be some other formulas.It is said that Mayan civilisation also knows astrology.We dont know their formulas.. I think we need not worry that out ancient astrology is lost.It will take rebirth again.. Thanks all astrologers of this forum for giving me your valuable time. Namaste K.Umamaheswara rao retd officer,Andhra pradesh. ____________ _________ _________ __ Vattem Krishnan <bursar_99 > Thu, 25 February, 2010 10:53:29 AM Re: Origins of Vedic Astrology! Probably the beginning and end all in understanding the universe.These are essentially visible Panch Bhootas.This certainls takes into account Voids.these voids probably have beginnings for how ,what and why making the oriigins foe a Sastra or a science and even Tarka. Vattem Krishnan Cyber Jyotish Services(For all counseling services)Dr. B.V.Raman " Fools Obey Planets While Wisemen Can Control Them " Planets are neutral Controllers of Mans Karma --- On Wed, 2/24/10, rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani@ hotmail.com> wrote: rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani@ hotmail.com> Re: Origins of Vedic Astrology! Wednesday, February 24, 2010, 11:49 PM What comes first, if I may, is the void where the question eventually finds home! Like the void where eventually is placed an egg and eventually an outcome: ANSWER! VOID creates negative emotions and negative affect and HUNGER! Foraging begins therefrom! VOID has been identified as the first cry where some agree, life begins! The metaphorical *stork* drops the baby and the 'toddling' begins! All the way up until the grave or crematorium. It is what lies between the beginning (ibtedah) and the end (intehaa) is what the survivors speak of in glory of the recently departed at the memorial! THE CONSTANT THAT NEVER CHANGES! RR_, , PG <darshan261@ ...> wrote: > > I do not think it is what comes first chicken or the egg. In this instance it is always question . Even if one believes that they might have an answer the curiousity that there may yet be another answer is the constant question. I agree the constant curiosity is the path to progressively greater understanding. > Ashok Goswami > > --- On Wed, 2/24/10, Lilly <tigresslilly2005@ ...> wrote: > > Lilly <tigresslilly2005@ ...> > Re: Origins of Vedic Astrology! > > Wednesday, February 24, 2010, 10:40 PM > > > > > > > > Â > > > > > > > > > > //First -- there was the question!In other faiths they insisted that, " First there was light! " How can there be LIGHT unless first the DARKNESS gets questioned, politely?// > > > > That's like asking " which came first- the chicken or the egg? " ! > > If you believe everything in nature to be cyclical, following some divine order or pattern than the order of question comes to never ending. > > > > Lilly > > > > , " rohinicrystal " <jyotish_vani@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > If DIVINITY exists then nothing is truly lost and will arrive back in one form or another! :-) > > > > > > If DIVINITY DOES NOT EXIST then we face a problem! We human beings would have to figure it out all by ourselves and recreate all that we think is DIVINE! > > > > > > We better get working in that case!! > > > > > > I suggest we begin with the first chapter in BPHS -- whichever version we have and that we have studied! > > > > > > ... > > > Maitraiya Uvaacha...! > > > ... > > > > > > First -- there was the question! > > > > > > In other faiths they insisted that, " First there was light! " > > > > > > How can there be LIGHT unless first the DARKNESS gets questioned, politely? > > > > > > By Maitraiya? The quintessential curiosity that was gifted to us and rests often unexplored -- within each of us? In all 'versions' that exist! The CONSTANT = CURIOSITY! > > > > > > RR_, > > > > > > > > > , " Suresh Babu.A.G " <sureshbabuag@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > //And that is where my fear is and an acute feeling of loss! What if these bodies of knowledge that remain secret die with the only remaining > > > > owner and its corollary -- written documents that did not or could not > > > > get published for a variety of reasons and have fallen in the hand of > > > > later generations who do not know the academic value of these ancient > > > > writings! God knows how many written accounts on ancient 'leaves' have > > > > been ill-preserved and possibly eaten up by termites and silverfish and > > > > other insect! I shudder even at the thought of that...!// > > > > > > > > > > > > Very true. I saw a small booklet which stated that there are 21 vyakhanas for the first verse of Varahara Hora as paramparic teachings but are lost over the time due to the above reasons. > > > > > > > > During the early 50's/60's a lot of Manuscripts were taken away by europeans particularly germans & french from several temples in kerala itself. They gave away those without realizing its value. God only knows how many were taken away thus and elsewhere in the world. Today the Sanskrit dictionary both online & printed are by germans - not Indian. That itself is a proof of what we have lost and what we are doing regarding our treasures. > > > > > > > > A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > > rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani@ > > > > > > > > > Thu, February 25, 2010 3:26:24 AM > > > > Re: Origins of Vedic Astrology! > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar jee, > > > > > > > > I think it is very well-accepted, as mentioned earlier, that Ancient Indian wisdom, like other ancient wisdom was initially preserved and propagated by the oral tradition. The traces of this tradition probably exist still and not just in Hindu Culture but other religions as well where the emphasis is placed on the memorizing and preservation. And this is not just done as an exercise to improve memory (which is a positive side-benefit) but for preservation of wisdom, literally verbatim. Over time, perhaps memories became lax and things got transferred to writing and then writing got lazier and now we end up with half a dozen versions of a given scriptural text. What has been often lamented upon as the degrading influence of Cull-Yuga. > > > > > > > > Anyone who thinks and feels that what is written and available in 'book-stores' is all there is, even in jyotish, is taking too much for granted. I realize that not ALL claims in the name of parampara or secrets of generations may be truly that but there sure is a lot that lies between the printed word and the memories that still exist but do not speak too much publicly. > > > > > > > > And that is where my fear is and an acute feeling of loss! What if these bodies of knowledge that remain secret die with the only remaining owner and its corollary -- written documents that did not or could not get published for a variety of reasons and have fallen in the hand of later generations who do not know the academic value of these ancient writings! God knows how many written accounts on ancient 'leaves' have been ill-preserved and possibly eaten up by termites and silverfish and other insect! I shudder even at the thought of that...! > > > > > > > > Rohiniranjan > > > > > > > > , " Chandrashekhar " <sharma.chandrashek har@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lilly, > > > > > > > > > > You are right. Legend has it that near end of Treta yuga Goddess Parvati said to Lord Shankara that kaliyuga is approaching and the people then shall have innumerable sufferings, so my Lord give a science that will help lessen their sufferings, and the Lord gave astrology which was then carried by Narada to the Bhuloka. But this relates to the prediction for human lives part only. The science of predicting planetary movements including eclipse and omens and their results on kings and populace existed prior to that. Mention of planetary positions at the time of birth of Lord Rama and Lord Krishna are testimony to that. Kaliyuga is said to have begun when Lord Krishna went to his heavenly abode and that is around 3102 BC so the records certainly predate 2700 years, though they were in form of memorizing the texts and manuscripts came later on. > > > > > > > > > > Take care, > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > tigresslilly2005 > > > > > > > > > > Wednesday, February 24, 2010 12:26 AM > > > > > Origins of Vedic Astrology! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Members, > > > > > > > > > > Have you ever wondered why we don't have any written documentation, or even history(with proof/ hard core evidence) that dates back prior to to 2,700 years? What was happening prior to that era? Most ancient scriptures date back only that far back in time..It's strange how those rishi's wrote the classics referring to men of Kaliyuga only.. Almost like they could foresee what was to come in the next yuga. > > > > > > > > > > Lilly > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2010 Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 Dear All, Don't be fooled into thinking that Parashara was the sole propounder of Astrology & that he has not quoted other rishis or acharyas. Just like any genuine acharyas he has also given the respect where it is due. This in fact is a mark of an acharya, not his weakness. Unlike what is being done today by neo astrologers or book writers who claim or present that what they write as their own theories or findings. Look at chapter 8 (vargavivekadhyaaya) of Parashara Hora " tatra vridhishcha pushtishcha gargaadeenaam vacho yathaa " the usage of the word " garga aadeenaaM " clearly indicate that what has been written in Parashara Hora (supposed to be his work) has already been the opinion of not only maharshi Gargya but there are also others from whom he has based his theory. He did not mention that this is his theory at all. This is what others also has done like Acharya Varaha Mihira. This is the culture of India to give respect where it is due. Otherwise what is the need of remembering the rishi etc before starting on Mantra japa? A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy ________________________________ Prashant Kumar G B <gbp_kumar Thu, February 25, 2010 5:06:38 PM Re: Origins of Vedic Astrology! Dear Kakumanu Rao. there r many of the rishies in Vedic heritage and is is also common for children to name their children after their parents so have been many of the rishies as well now the word Vyasa means a compile this can be any compiler of any work be it music, art, sculpture, literature, medicine, ... when we talk of Veda Vyasa there is one and only one we refer to as Vyasa muni or whatever. similarly there r many Jaimini rishies as well and one who compiled the Jaimini Sutras is the disciple, son of Parasara himself. a total off the line succession and follows the opposites of parasara model and both forms r prevailent, except that Jaimini codified the subject so cryptically in a few lines it is paced with a lot though short so not many r competitent in it or have given it a real run as comparatively parasara's school has many later evolutions with various scholars giving their versions of what they got from the main tree and called it in different names. Varahmira has also compiled many works and this is more a collection collage as he quite often said Parasra said so, garga said so , Yavanaacharya said so, no where he said it is his views, experiences etc. [again their are many Varhamiras but one who compiled Brihat Jataka, Brihat samhita is what we normally are tallking off] Best wishes - G B Prashant Kumar Life Member ICAS. http://groups. / group/Jyotish_ Remedies/ database? method=reportRow s & tbl=6 ____________ _________ _________ __ Kakumanu Rao <kumrao100 (AT) (DOT) in> Thu, February 25, 2010 4:25:08 PM Re: Origins of Vedic Astrology! hello sirs, We all know that sage Parasara was responsible for giving a new life to the present day astrology,by writing book Hora..The book contains astrological principles that were followed in some famous ashrams,at that time..I think that sage Parasara did not invent astrology by himself.He collected all the material and go it written,of course he might have given more importance to some principles,which he believed to be more true.. Similarly,sage Vyasa codified all the philosophical principles of Upanishads and named it Bhagavadgita. . Sage Varahamihira principles of astrology are quite different and his book does not take into consideration lordship of planets,as far as i know Though the book Jaimini sutras is available,very few people are following those principles.Some chapters are not understood properly.due to the code language used.. Many of the nadi astrology books written in tamil,appear to be knowing the principles of Parasara..But ,there was no book which codifies and clarifies Nadi astrology. I heard that in Kerala,they calculate the longevity of spirits and plants also.The Prasna sastra that is followed in Kerala is unique. There is a proverb in telugu that dont try to find out the lineage of warriors and yogis.. The leelas of god are varied and not amenable to any formula.. The formulas which we know about astrology in the form Vedic astrology,may be minute.There may be some other formulas.It is said that Mayan civilisation also knows astrology.We dont know their formulas.. I think we need not worry that out ancient astrology is lost.It will take rebirth again.. Thanks all astrologers of this forum for giving me your valuable time. Namaste K.Umamaheswara rao retd officer,Andhra pradesh. ____________ _________ _________ __ Vattem Krishnan <bursar_99 > Thu, 25 February, 2010 10:53:29 AM Re: Origins of Vedic Astrology! Probably the beginning and end all in understanding the universe.These are essentially visible Panch Bhootas.This certainls takes into account Voids.these voids probably have beginnings for how ,what and why making the oriigins foe a Sastra or a science and even Tarka. Vattem Krishnan Cyber Jyotish Services(For all counseling services)Dr. B.V.Raman " Fools Obey Planets While Wisemen Can Control Them " Planets are neutral Controllers of Mans Karma --- On Wed, 2/24/10, rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani@ hotmail.com> wrote: rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani@ hotmail.com> Re: Origins of Vedic Astrology! Wednesday, February 24, 2010, 11:49 PM What comes first, if I may, is the void where the question eventually finds home! Like the void where eventually is placed an egg and eventually an outcome: ANSWER! VOID creates negative emotions and negative affect and HUNGER! Foraging begins therefrom! VOID has been identified as the first cry where some agree, life begins! The metaphorical *stork* drops the baby and the 'toddling' begins! All the way up until the grave or crematorium. It is what lies between the beginning (ibtedah) and the end (intehaa) is what the survivors speak of in glory of the recently departed at the memorial! THE CONSTANT THAT NEVER CHANGES! RR_, , PG <darshan261@ ...> wrote: > > I do not think it is what comes first chicken or the egg. In this instance it is always question . Even if one believes that they might have an answer the curiousity that there may yet be another answer is the constant question. I agree the constant curiosity is the path to progressively greater understanding. > Ashok Goswami > > --- On Wed, 2/24/10, Lilly <tigresslilly2005@ ...> wrote: > > Lilly <tigresslilly2005@ ...> > Re: Origins of Vedic Astrology! > > Wednesday, February 24, 2010, 10:40 PM > > > > > > > > Â > > > > > > > > > > //First -- there was the question!In other faiths they insisted that, " First there was light! " How can there be LIGHT unless first the DARKNESS gets questioned, politely?// > > > > That's like asking " which came first- the chicken or the egg? " ! > > If you believe everything in nature to be cyclical, following some divine order or pattern than the order of question comes to never ending. > > > > Lilly > > > > , " rohinicrystal " <jyotish_vani@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > If DIVINITY exists then nothing is truly lost and will arrive back in one form or another! :-) > > > > > > If DIVINITY DOES NOT EXIST then we face a problem! We human beings would have to figure it out all by ourselves and recreate all that we think is DIVINE! > > > > > > We better get working in that case!! > > > > > > I suggest we begin with the first chapter in BPHS -- whichever version we have and that we have studied! > > > > > > ... > > > Maitraiya Uvaacha...! > > > ... > > > > > > First -- there was the question! > > > > > > In other faiths they insisted that, " First there was light! " > > > > > > How can there be LIGHT unless first the DARKNESS gets questioned, politely? > > > > > > By Maitraiya? The quintessential curiosity that was gifted to us and rests often unexplored -- within each of us? In all 'versions' that exist! The CONSTANT = CURIOSITY! > > > > > > RR_, > > > > > > > > > , " Suresh Babu.A.G " <sureshbabuag@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > //And that is where my fear is and an acute feeling of loss! What if these bodies of knowledge that remain secret die with the only remaining > > > > owner and its corollary -- written documents that did not or could not > > > > get published for a variety of reasons and have fallen in the hand of > > > > later generations who do not know the academic value of these ancient > > > > writings! God knows how many written accounts on ancient 'leaves' have > > > > been ill-preserved and possibly eaten up by termites and silverfish and > > > > other insect! I shudder even at the thought of that...!// > > > > > > > > > > > > Very true. I saw a small booklet which stated that there are 21 vyakhanas for the first verse of Varahara Hora as paramparic teachings but are lost over the time due to the above reasons. > > > > > > > > During the early 50's/60's a lot of Manuscripts were taken away by europeans particularly germans & french from several temples in kerala itself. They gave away those without realizing its value. God only knows how many were taken away thus and elsewhere in the world. Today the Sanskrit dictionary both online & printed are by germans - not Indian. That itself is a proof of what we have lost and what we are doing regarding our treasures. > > > > > > > > A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > > rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani@ > > > > > > > > > Thu, February 25, 2010 3:26:24 AM > > > > Re: Origins of Vedic Astrology! > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar jee, > > > > > > > > I think it is very well-accepted, as mentioned earlier, that Ancient Indian wisdom, like other ancient wisdom was initially preserved and propagated by the oral tradition. The traces of this tradition probably exist still and not just in Hindu Culture but other religions as well where the emphasis is placed on the memorizing and preservation. And this is not just done as an exercise to improve memory (which is a positive side-benefit) but for preservation of wisdom, literally verbatim. Over time, perhaps memories became lax and things got transferred to writing and then writing got lazier and now we end up with half a dozen versions of a given scriptural text. What has been often lamented upon as the degrading influence of Cull-Yuga. > > > > > > > > Anyone who thinks and feels that what is written and available in 'book-stores' is all there is, even in jyotish, is taking too much for granted. I realize that not ALL claims in the name of parampara or secrets of generations may be truly that but there sure is a lot that lies between the printed word and the memories that still exist but do not speak too much publicly. > > > > > > > > And that is where my fear is and an acute feeling of loss! What if these bodies of knowledge that remain secret die with the only remaining owner and its corollary -- written documents that did not or could not get published for a variety of reasons and have fallen in the hand of later generations who do not know the academic value of these ancient writings! God knows how many written accounts on ancient 'leaves' have been ill-preserved and possibly eaten up by termites and silverfish and other insect! I shudder even at the thought of that...! > > > > > > > > Rohiniranjan > > > > > > > > , " Chandrashekhar " <sharma.chandrashek har@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lilly, > > > > > > > > > > You are right. Legend has it that near end of Treta yuga Goddess Parvati said to Lord Shankara that kaliyuga is approaching and the people then shall have innumerable sufferings, so my Lord give a science that will help lessen their sufferings, and the Lord gave astrology which was then carried by Narada to the Bhuloka. But this relates to the prediction for human lives part only. The science of predicting planetary movements including eclipse and omens and their results on kings and populace existed prior to that. Mention of planetary positions at the time of birth of Lord Rama and Lord Krishna are testimony to that. Kaliyuga is said to have begun when Lord Krishna went to his heavenly abode and that is around 3102 BC so the records certainly predate 2700 years, though they were in form of memorizing the texts and manuscripts came later on. > > > > > > > > > > Take care, > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > tigresslilly2005 > > > > > > > > > > Wednesday, February 24, 2010 12:26 AM > > > > > Origins of Vedic Astrology! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Members, > > > > > > > > > > Have you ever wondered why we don't have any written documentation, or even history(with proof/ hard core evidence) that dates back prior to to 2,700 years? What was happening prior to that era? Most ancient scriptures date back only that far back in time..It's strange how those rishi's wrote the classics referring to men of Kaliyuga only.. Almost like they could foresee what was to come in the next yuga. > > > > > > > > > > Lilly > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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