Guest guest Posted February 25, 2010 Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 Exactly! Disciplines like astrology are timeless! , " Suresh Babu.A.G " <sureshbabuag wrote: > > > Dear All, > > Don't be fooled into thinking that Parashara was the sole propounder of Astrology & that he has not quoted other rishis or acharyas. Just like any genuine acharyas he has also given the respect where it is due. This in fact is a mark of an acharya, not his weakness. Unlike what is being done today by neo astrologers or book writers who claim or present that what they write as their own theories or findings. > > Look at chapter 8 (vargavivekadhyaaya) of Parashara Hora > > " tatra vridhishcha pushtishcha gargaadeenaam vacho yathaa " > > the usage of the word " garga aadeenaaM " clearly indicate that what has been written in Parashara Hora (supposed to be his work) has already been the opinion of not only maharshi Gargya but there are also others from whom he has based his theory. He did not mention that this is his theory at all. > > This is what others also has done like Acharya Varaha Mihira. > > This is the culture of India to give respect where it is due. Otherwise what is the need of remembering the rishi etc before starting on Mantra japa? > > > > A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy > > > > > ________________________________ > Prashant Kumar G B <gbp_kumar > > Thu, February 25, 2010 5:06:38 PM > Re: Origins of Vedic Astrology! > > > Dear Kakumanu Rao. > > there r many of the rishies in Vedic heritage and is is also common for children to name their children after their parents so have been many of the rishies as well > > now the word Vyasa means a compile > this can be any compiler of any work be it music, art, sculpture, literature, medicine, ... > > when we talk of Veda Vyasa there is one and only one we refer to as Vyasa muni or whatever. > > similarly there r many Jaimini rishies as well and one who compiled the Jaimini Sutras is the disciple, son of Parasara himself. a total off the line succession and follows the opposites of parasara model and both forms r prevailent, except that Jaimini codified the subject so cryptically in a few lines it is paced with a lot though short so not many r competitent in it or have given it a real run as comparatively parasara's school has many later evolutions with various scholars giving their versions of what they got from the main tree and called it in different names. > > Varahmira has also compiled many works and this is more a collection collage as he quite often said Parasra said so, garga said so , Yavanaacharya said so, no where he said it is his views, experiences etc. > > [again their are many Varhamiras but one who compiled Brihat Jataka, Brihat samhita is what we normally are tallking off] > > Best wishes > > - G B Prashant Kumar Life Member ICAS. > http://groups. / group/Jyotish_ Remedies/ database? method=reportRow s & tbl=6 > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > Kakumanu Rao <kumrao100 (AT) (DOT) in> > > Thu, February 25, 2010 4:25:08 PM > Re: Origins of Vedic Astrology! > > hello sirs, We all know that sage Parasara was responsible for giving a new life to the present day astrology,by writing book Hora..The book contains > astrological principles that were followed in some famous ashrams,at that time..I think that sage Parasara did not invent astrology by himself.He collected > all the material and go it written,of course he might have given more importance to some principles,which he believed to be more true.. > Similarly,sage Vyasa codified all the philosophical principles of Upanishads and named it Bhagavadgita. . > Sage Varahamihira principles of astrology are quite different and his book does not take into consideration lordship of planets,as far as i know > Though the book Jaimini sutras is available,very few people are following those principles.Some chapters are not understood properly.due to the > code language used.. > Many of the nadi astrology books written in tamil,appear to be knowing the principles of Parasara..But ,there was no book which codifies > and clarifies Nadi astrology. > I heard that in Kerala,they calculate the longevity of spirits and plants also.The Prasna sastra that is followed in Kerala is unique. > There is a proverb in telugu that dont try to find out the lineage of warriors and yogis.. > The leelas of god are varied and not amenable to any formula.. > The formulas which we know about astrology in the form Vedic astrology,may be minute.There may be some other formulas.It is said > that Mayan civilisation also knows astrology.We dont know their formulas.. > I think we need not worry that out ancient astrology is lost.It will take rebirth again.. > Thanks all astrologers of this forum for giving me your valuable time. > Namaste > K.Umamaheswara rao > retd officer,Andhra pradesh. > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > Vattem Krishnan <bursar_99 > > > Thu, 25 February, 2010 10:53:29 AM > Re: Origins of Vedic Astrology! > > Probably the beginning and end all in understanding the universe.These are essentially visible Panch Bhootas.This certainls takes into account Voids.these voids probably have beginnings for how ,what and why making the oriigins foe a Sastra or a science and even Tarka. > > Vattem Krishnan Cyber Jyotish Services(For all counseling services)Dr. B.V.Raman " Fools Obey Planets While Wisemen Can Control Them " Planets are neutral Controllers of Mans Karma > > --- On Wed, 2/24/10, rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani@ hotmail.com> wrote: > > rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani@ hotmail.com> > Re: Origins of Vedic Astrology! > > Wednesday, February 24, 2010, 11:49 PM > > What comes first, if I may, is the void where the question eventually finds home! > > Like the void where eventually is placed an egg and eventually an outcome: ANSWER! > > VOID creates negative emotions and negative affect and HUNGER! Foraging begins therefrom! > > VOID has been identified as the first cry where some agree, life begins! > > The metaphorical *stork* drops the baby and the 'toddling' begins! All the way up until the grave or crematorium. It is what lies between the beginning (ibtedah) and the end (intehaa) is what the survivors speak of in glory of the recently departed at the memorial! > > THE CONSTANT THAT NEVER CHANGES! > > RR_, > > , PG <darshan261@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > I do not think it is what comes first chicken or the egg. In this instance it is always question . Even if one believes that they might have an answer the curiousity that there may yet be another answer is the constant question. I agree the constant curiosity is the path to progressively greater understanding. > > > Ashok Goswami > > > > > > --- On Wed, 2/24/10, Lilly <tigresslilly2005@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > Lilly <tigresslilly2005@ ...> > > > Re: Origins of Vedic Astrology! > > > > > > Wednesday, February 24, 2010, 10:40 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Â > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > //First -- there was the question!In other faiths they insisted that, " First there was light! " How can there be LIGHT unless first the DARKNESS gets questioned, politely?// > > > > > > > > > > > > That's like asking " which came first- the chicken or the egg? " ! > > > > > > If you believe everything in nature to be cyclical, following some divine order or pattern than the order of question comes to never ending. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lilly > > > > > > > > > > > > , " rohinicrystal " <jyotish_vani@ ....> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If DIVINITY exists then nothing is truly lost and will arrive back in one form or another! :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If DIVINITY DOES NOT EXIST then we face a problem! We human beings would have to figure it out all by ourselves and recreate all that we think is DIVINE! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We better get working in that case!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I suggest we begin with the first chapter in BPHS -- whichever version we have and that we have studied! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ... > > > > > > > Maitraiya Uvaacha...! > > > > > > > ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First -- there was the question! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In other faiths they insisted that, " First there was light! " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How can there be LIGHT unless first the DARKNESS gets questioned, politely? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > By Maitraiya? The quintessential curiosity that was gifted to us and rests often unexplored -- within each of us? In all 'versions' that exist! The CONSTANT = CURIOSITY! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RR_, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " Suresh Babu.A.G " <sureshbabuag@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > //And that is where my fear is and an acute feeling of loss! What if these bodies of knowledge that remain secret die with the only remaining > > > > > > > > owner and its corollary -- written documents that did not or could not > > > > > > > > get published for a variety of reasons and have fallen in the hand of > > > > > > > > later generations who do not know the academic value of these ancient > > > > > > > > writings! God knows how many written accounts on ancient 'leaves' have > > > > > > > > been ill-preserved and possibly eaten up by termites and silverfish and > > > > > > > > other insect! I shudder even at the thought of that...!// > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Very true. I saw a small booklet which stated that there are 21 vyakhanas for the first verse of Varahara Hora as paramparic teachings but are lost over the time due to the above reasons. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > During the early 50's/60's a lot of Manuscripts were taken away by europeans particularly germans & french from several temples in kerala itself. They gave away those without realizing its value. God only knows how many were taken away thus and elsewhere in the world. Today the Sanskrit dictionary both online & printed are by germans - not Indian. That itself is a proof of what we have lost and what we are doing regarding our treasures. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > > > > > > rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani@ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thu, February 25, 2010 3:26:24 AM > > > > > > > > Re: Origins of Vedic Astrology! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar jee, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think it is very well-accepted, as mentioned earlier, that Ancient Indian wisdom, like other ancient wisdom was initially preserved and propagated by the oral tradition. The traces of this tradition probably exist still and not just in Hindu Culture but other religions as well where the emphasis is placed on the memorizing and preservation. And this is not just done as an exercise to improve memory (which is a positive side-benefit) but for preservation of wisdom, literally verbatim. Over time, perhaps memories became lax and things got transferred to writing and then writing got lazier and now we end up with half a dozen versions of a given scriptural text. What has been often lamented upon as the degrading influence of Cull-Yuga. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyone who thinks and feels that what is written and available in 'book-stores' is all there is, even in jyotish, is taking too much for granted. I realize that not ALL claims in the name of parampara or secrets of generations may be truly that but there sure is a lot that lies between the printed word and the memories that still exist but do not speak too much publicly. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And that is where my fear is and an acute feeling of loss! What if these bodies of knowledge that remain secret die with the only remaining owner and its corollary -- written documents that did not or could not get published for a variety of reasons and have fallen in the hand of later generations who do not know the academic value of these ancient writings! God knows how many written accounts on ancient 'leaves' have been ill-preserved and possibly eaten up by termites and silverfish and other insect! I shudder even at the thought of that...! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rohiniranjan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " Chandrashekhar " <sharma.chandrashek har@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lilly, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are right. Legend has it that near end of Treta yuga Goddess Parvati said to Lord Shankara that kaliyuga is approaching and the people then shall have innumerable sufferings, so my Lord give a science that will help lessen their sufferings, and the Lord gave astrology which was then carried by Narada to the Bhuloka. But this relates to the prediction for human lives part only. The science of predicting planetary movements including eclipse and omens and their results on kings and populace existed prior to that. Mention of planetary positions at the time of birth of Lord Rama and Lord Krishna are testimony to that. Kaliyuga is said to have begun when Lord Krishna went to his heavenly abode and that is around 3102 BC so the records certainly predate 2700 years, though they were in form of memorizing the texts and manuscripts came later on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Take care, > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > tigresslilly2005 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wednesday, February 24, 2010 12:26 AM > > > > > > > > > Origins of Vedic Astrology! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Members, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Have you ever wondered why we don't have any written documentation, or even history(with proof/ hard core evidence) that dates back prior to to 2,700 years? What was happening prior to that era? Most ancient scriptures date back only that far back in time..It's strange how those rishi's wrote the classics referring to men of Kaliyuga only.. Almost like they could foresee what was to come in the next yuga. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lilly > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2010 Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 Dear Rohini Ranjan, I agree that the knowledge has been carried by memorizing texts of ancient sciences and I was merely pointing out the fact of when the Hora part got more refined, as indicated by legends. As a matter of fact even today traditional Hindu sciences are preserved more through memorizing them. Mention can be made here of Indian classical music. I am sure every one who has seen a western orchestra have seen the notations in written forms put up on stands in front of each performer. Now picture an Indian classical music concert and you will find that none of the instrumental instruments players have any notation in front of him from which they play. Hundreds of thousands of bandishes and hundreds of rhythms etc are performed, having been memorized. Even in shastras , that which is heard ( and understood) that is " Shruti " gets the highest status amongst knowledge. Even in jyotish I have seen nonagenarian Chandubhai Patel reciting literally thousands of shloka from Chandra Kala Nadi at a seminar in Mumbai when I had the good fortune of meeting him in person. Then there is Ramkripalu maharaj who recites n " number of richas from Vedas and shlokas from other scriptures and mentions the Adhyaaya, Mandala Sukta and the number of the said richas or shlokas with ease and he is in the Eighties. His disciple is a young girl who is equally at ease in doing the same. So the ability of Indian brain to memorize a huge body of knowledge is still available in India. As you rightly pointed out, the only negative is in knowledgeable people being reluctant to share the knowledge received through oral traditions, generally. But then the reason could also be that it is fashionable to belittle the knowledge of oral tradition and only to accept something that is written down. So some of the knowledgeable may think it better not to let on what they know through oral tradition for fear of being ridiculed by people who do not respect the oral tradition. On the other hand the down side is the tendency to pass off things as being part of tradition without any other supporting evidence like other disciples of the same guru vouchsafing the tradition. This is happening with more frequency in ancient Hindu sciences of late. The only thing that gives me solace that the oral tradition will survive all this is what my father used to say, when I was young. He once told me that one who wants to learn any divine science with an intention to help others shall always find the right Guru. He further used to say that one might read lots of books but all that knowledge can never be greater than what one can hear from his Guru's mouth. I think he was trying to tell me the importance of the oral traditions. Even Guru Geeta says " Guru vaktra sthitya vidyaa gurubhaktyaa tu labhyate " , thus confirming the importance granted to the oral tradition in ancient Hindu sciences. After I wrote all this, I have realized that I have become too pedantic and hope you will pardon me for this, but I could not stop myself. Regards, Chandrashekhar. - rohinicrystal Thursday, February 25, 2010 3:26 AM Re: Origins of Vedic Astrology! Chandrashekhar jee, I think it is very well-accepted,as mentioned earlier, that Ancient Indian wisdom, like other ancient wisdom was initially preserved and propagated by the oral tradition. The traces of this tradition probably exist still and not just in Hindu Culture but other religions as well where the emphasis is placed on the memorizing and preservation. And this is not just done as an exercise to improve memory (which is a positive side-benefit) but for preservation of wisdom, literally verbatim. Over time, perhaps memories became lax and things got transferred to writing and then writing got lazier and now we end up with half a dozen versions of a given scriptural text. What has been often lamented upon as the degrading influence of Cull-Yuga. Anyone who thinks and feels that what is written and available in 'book-stores' is all there is, even in jyotish, is taking too much for granted. I realize that not ALL claims in the name of parampara or secrets of generations may be truly that but there sure is a lot that lies between the printed word and the memories that still exist but do not speak too much publicly. And that is where my fear is and an acute feeling of loss! What if these bodies of knowledge that remain secret die with the only remaining owner and its corollary -- written documents that did not or could not get published for a variety of reasons and have fallen in the hand of later generations who do not know the academic value of these ancient writings! God knows how many written accounts on ancient 'leaves' have been ill-preserved and possibly eaten up by termites and silverfish and other insect! I shudder even at the thought of that...! Rohiniranjan , " Chandrashekhar " <sharma.chandrashekhar wrote: > > Dear Lilly, > > You are right. Legend has it that near end of Treta yuga Goddess Parvati said to Lord Shankara that kaliyuga is approaching and the people then shall have innumerable sufferings, so my Lord give a science that will help lessen their sufferings, and the Lord gave astrology which was then carried by Narada to the Bhuloka. But this relates to the prediction for human lives part only. The science of predicting planetary movements including eclipse and omens and their results on kings and populace existed prior to that. Mention of planetary positions at the time of birth of Lord Rama and Lord Krishna are testimony to that. Kaliyuga is said to have begun when Lord Krishna went to his heavenly abode and that is around 3102 BC so the records certainly predate 2700 years, though they were in form of memorizing the texts and manuscripts came later on. > > Take care, > Chandrashekhar. > > - > tigresslilly2005 > > Wednesday, February 24, 2010 12:26 AM > Origins of Vedic Astrology! > > > > > Dear Members, > > Have you ever wondered why we don't have any written documentation, or even history(with proof/ hard core evidence) that dates back prior to to 2,700 years? What was happening prior to that era? Most ancient scriptures date back only that far back in time..It's strange how those rishi's wrote the classics referring to men of Kaliyuga only.. Almost like they could foresee what was to come in the next yuga. > > Lilly > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2010 Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 Dear Suresh Babu, Yes, there are said to be eight pravartakas of Jyotish beginning from Brahma and including Narada, Chyavana Marichi and so on. Parashara also states at the end of his BPHS that he is only giving the knowledge that was received from Narada to Garga and from him by Shaunaka. This is the mark of a great rishi. They would never take credit of creating a new system. As you rightly say Varaha Mihira also gives the opinion of Satyacharya and also of others even when it differs from his own. Regards, Chandrashekhar - Suresh Babu.A.G Thursday, February 25, 2010 8:37 PM Re: Origins of Vedic Astrology! Dear All, Don't be fooled into thinking that Parashara was the sole propounder of Astrology & that he has not quoted other rishis or acharyas. Just like any genuine acharyas he has also given the respect where it is due. This in fact is a mark of an acharya, not his weakness. Unlike what is being done today by neo astrologers or book writers who claim or present that what they write as their own theories or findings. Look at chapter 8 (vargavivekadhyaaya) of Parashara Hora " tatra vridhishcha pushtishcha gargaadeenaam vacho yathaa " the usage of the word " garga aadeenaaM " clearly indicate that what has been written in Parashara Hora (supposed to be his work) has already been the opinion of not only maharshi Gargya but there are also others from whom he has based his theory. He did not mention that this is his theory at all. This is what others also has done like Acharya Varaha Mihira. This is the culture of India to give respect where it is due. Otherwise what is the need of remembering the rishi etc before starting on Mantra japa? A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy ________________________________ Prashant Kumar G B <gbp_kumar Thu, February 25, 2010 5:06:38 PM Re: Origins of Vedic Astrology! Dear Kakumanu Rao. there r many of the rishies in Vedic heritage and is is also common for children to name their children after their parents so have been many of the rishies as well now the word Vyasa means a compile this can be any compiler of any work be it music, art, sculpture, literature, medicine, ... when we talk of Veda Vyasa there is one and only one we refer to as Vyasa muni or whatever. similarly there r many Jaimini rishies as well and one who compiled the Jaimini Sutras is the disciple, son of Parasara himself. a total off the line succession and follows the opposites of parasara model and both forms r prevailent, except that Jaimini codified the subject so cryptically in a few lines it is paced with a lot though short so not many r competitent in it or have given it a real run as comparatively parasara's school has many later evolutions with various scholars giving their versions of what they got from the main tree and called it in different names. Varahmira has also compiled many works and this is more a collection collage as he quite often said Parasra said so, garga said so , Yavanaacharya said so, no where he said it is his views, experiences etc. [again their are many Varhamiras but one who compiled Brihat Jataka, Brihat samhita is what we normally are tallking off] Best wishes - G B Prashant Kumar Life Member ICAS. http://groups. / group/Jyotish_ Remedies/ database? method=reportRow s & tbl=6 ____________ _________ _________ __ Kakumanu Rao <kumrao100 (AT) (DOT) in> Thu, February 25, 2010 4:25:08 PM Re: Origins of Vedic Astrology! hello sirs, We all know that sage Parasara was responsible for giving a new life to the present day astrology,by writing book Hora..The book contains astrological principles that were followed in some famous ashrams,at that time..I think that sage Parasara did not invent astrology by himself.He collected all the material and go it written,of course he might have given more importance to some principles,which he believed to be more true.. Similarly,sage Vyasa codified all the philosophical principles of Upanishads and named it Bhagavadgita. . Sage Varahamihira principles of astrology are quite different and his book does not take into consideration lordship of planets,as far as i know Though the book Jaimini sutras is available,very few people are following those principles.Some chapters are not understood properly.due to the code language used.. Many of the nadi astrology books written in tamil,appear to be knowing the principles of Parasara..But ,there was no book which codifies and clarifies Nadi astrology. I heard that in Kerala,they calculate the longevity of spirits and plants also.The Prasna sastra that is followed in Kerala is unique. There is a proverb in telugu that dont try to find out the lineage of warriors and yogis.. The leelas of god are varied and not amenable to any formula.. The formulas which we know about astrology in the form Vedic astrology,may be minute.There may be some other formulas.It is said that Mayan civilisation also knows astrology.We dont know their formulas.. I think we need not worry that out ancient astrology is lost.It will take rebirth again.. Thanks all astrologers of this forum for giving me your valuable time. Namaste K.Umamaheswara rao retd officer,Andhra pradesh. ____________ _________ _________ __ Vattem Krishnan <bursar_99 > Thu, 25 February, 2010 10:53:29 AM Re: Origins of Vedic Astrology! Probably the beginning and end all in understanding the universe.These are essentially visible Panch Bhootas.This certainls takes into account Voids.these voids probably have beginnings for how ,what and why making the oriigins foe a Sastra or a science and even Tarka. Vattem Krishnan Cyber Jyotish Services(For all counseling services)Dr. B.V.Raman " Fools Obey Planets While Wisemen Can Control Them " Planets are neutral Controllers of Mans Karma --- On Wed, 2/24/10, rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani@ hotmail.com> wrote: rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani@ hotmail.com> Re: Origins of Vedic Astrology! Wednesday, February 24, 2010, 11:49 PM What comes first, if I may, is the void where the question eventually finds home! Like the void where eventually is placed an egg and eventually an outcome: ANSWER! VOID creates negative emotions and negative affect and HUNGER! Foraging begins therefrom! VOID has been identified as the first cry where some agree, life begins! The metaphorical *stork* drops the baby and the 'toddling' begins! All the way up until the grave or crematorium. It is what lies between the beginning (ibtedah) and the end (intehaa) is what the survivors speak of in glory of the recently departed at the memorial! THE CONSTANT THAT NEVER CHANGES! RR_, , PG <darshan261@ ...> wrote: > > I do not think it is what comes first chicken or the egg. In this instance it is always question . Even if one believes that they might have an answer the curiousity that there may yet be another answer is the constant question. I agree the constant curiosity is the path to progressively greater understanding. > Ashok Goswami > > --- On Wed, 2/24/10, Lilly <tigresslilly2005@ ...> wrote: > > Lilly <tigresslilly2005@ ...> > Re: Origins of Vedic Astrology! > > Wednesday, February 24, 2010, 10:40 PM > > > > > > > > Â > > > > > > > > > > //First -- there was the question!In other faiths they insisted that, " First there was light! " How can there be LIGHT unless first the DARKNESS gets questioned, politely?// > > > > That's like asking " which came first- the chicken or the egg? " ! > > If you believe everything in nature to be cyclical, following some divine order or pattern than the order of question comes to never ending. > > > > Lilly > > > > , " rohinicrystal " <jyotish_vani@ ....> wrote: > > > > > > If DIVINITY exists then nothing is truly lost and will arrive back in one form or another! :-) > > > > > > If DIVINITY DOES NOT EXIST then we face a problem! We human beings would have to figure it out all by ourselves and recreate all that we think is DIVINE! > > > > > > We better get working in that case!! > > > > > > I suggest we begin with the first chapter in BPHS -- whichever version we have and that we have studied! > > > > > > ... > > > Maitraiya Uvaacha...! > > > ... > > > > > > First -- there was the question! > > > > > > In other faiths they insisted that, " First there was light! " > > > > > > How can there be LIGHT unless first the DARKNESS gets questioned, politely? > > > > > > By Maitraiya? The quintessential curiosity that was gifted to us and rests often unexplored -- within each of us? In all 'versions' that exist! The CONSTANT = CURIOSITY! > > > > > > RR_, > > > > > > > > > , " Suresh Babu.A.G " <sureshbabuag@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > //And that is where my fear is and an acute feeling of loss! What if these bodies of knowledge that remain secret die with the only remaining > > > > owner and its corollary -- written documents that did not or could not > > > > get published for a variety of reasons and have fallen in the hand of > > > > later generations who do not know the academic value of these ancient > > > > writings! God knows how many written accounts on ancient 'leaves' have > > > > been ill-preserved and possibly eaten up by termites and silverfish and > > > > other insect! I shudder even at the thought of that...!// > > > > > > > > > > > > Very true. I saw a small booklet which stated that there are 21 vyakhanas for the first verse of Varahara Hora as paramparic teachings but are lost over the time due to the above reasons. > > > > > > > > During the early 50's/60's a lot of Manuscripts were taken away by europeans particularly germans & french from several temples in kerala itself. They gave away those without realizing its value. God only knows how many were taken away thus and elsewhere in the world. Today the Sanskrit dictionary both online & printed are by germans - not Indian. That itself is a proof of what we have lost and what we are doing regarding our treasures. > > > > > > > > A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > > rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani@ > > > > > > > > > Thu, February 25, 2010 3:26:24 AM > > > > Re: Origins of Vedic Astrology! > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar jee, > > > > > > > > I think it is very well-accepted, as mentioned earlier, that Ancient Indian wisdom, like other ancient wisdom was initially preserved and propagated by the oral tradition. The traces of this tradition probably exist still and not just in Hindu Culture but other religions as well where the emphasis is placed on the memorizing and preservation. And this is not just done as an exercise to improve memory (which is a positive side-benefit) but for preservation of wisdom, literally verbatim. Over time, perhaps memories became lax and things got transferred to writing and then writing got lazier and now we end up with half a dozen versions of a given scriptural text. What has been often lamented upon as the degrading influence of Cull-Yuga. > > > > > > > > Anyone who thinks and feels that what is written and available in 'book-stores' is all there is, even in jyotish, is taking too much for granted. I realize that not ALL claims in the name of parampara or secrets of generations may be truly that but there sure is a lot that lies between the printed word and the memories that still exist but do not speak too much publicly. > > > > > > > > And that is where my fear is and an acute feeling of loss! What if these bodies of knowledge that remain secret die with the only remaining owner and its corollary -- written documents that did not or could not get published for a variety of reasons and have fallen in the hand of later generations who do not know the academic value of these ancient writings! God knows how many written accounts on ancient 'leaves' have been ill-preserved and possibly eaten up by termites and silverfish and other insect! I shudder even at the thought of that...! > > > > > > > > Rohiniranjan > > > > > > > > , " Chandrashekhar " <sharma.chandrashek har@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lilly, > > > > > > > > > > You are right. Legend has it that near end of Treta yuga Goddess Parvati said to Lord Shankara that kaliyuga is approaching and the people then shall have innumerable sufferings, so my Lord give a science that will help lessen their sufferings, and the Lord gave astrology which was then carried by Narada to the Bhuloka. But this relates to the prediction for human lives part only. The science of predicting planetary movements including eclipse and omens and their results on kings and populace existed prior to that. Mention of planetary positions at the time of birth of Lord Rama and Lord Krishna are testimony to that. Kaliyuga is said to have begun when Lord Krishna went to his heavenly abode and that is around 3102 BC so the records certainly predate 2700 years, though they were in form of memorizing the texts and manuscripts came later on. > > > > > > > > > > Take care, > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > tigresslilly2005 > > > > > > > > > > Wednesday, February 24, 2010 12:26 AM > > > > > Origins of Vedic Astrology! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Members, > > > > > > > > > > Have you ever wondered why we don't have any written documentation, or even history(with proof/ hard core evidence) that dates back prior to to 2,700 years? What was happening prior to that era? Most ancient scriptures date back only that far back in time..It's strange how those rishi's wrote the classics referring to men of Kaliyuga only.. Almost like they could foresee what was to come in the next yuga. > > > > > > > > > > Lilly > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2010 Report Share Posted February 26, 2010 Sir, Parshuram ji was present both at Ramayana and Mahabharata. Was he the same person or someone representing a school , a parampara?. Regards Kulbir Bains ________________________________ Suresh Babu.A.G <sureshbabuag Thu, 25 February, 2010 8:37:07 PM Re: Origins of Vedic Astrology! Dear All, Don't be fooled into thinking that Parashara was the sole propounder of Astrology & that he has not quoted other rishis or acharyas. Just like any genuine acharyas he has also given the respect where it is due. This in fact is a mark of an acharya, not his weakness. Unlike what is being done today by neo astrologers or book writers who claim or present that what they write as their own theories or findings. Look at chapter 8 (vargavivekadhyaaya ) of Parashara Hora " tatra vridhishcha pushtishcha gargaadeenaam vacho yathaa " the usage of the word " garga aadeenaaM " clearly indicate that what has been written in Parashara Hora (supposed to be his work) has already been the opinion of not only maharshi Gargya but there are also others from whom he has based his theory. He did not mention that this is his theory at all. This is what others also has done like Acharya Varaha Mihira. This is the culture of India to give respect where it is due. Otherwise what is the need of remembering the rishi etc before starting on Mantra japa? A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy ____________ _________ _________ __ Prashant Kumar G B <gbp_kumar > Thu, February 25, 2010 5:06:38 PM Re: Origins of Vedic Astrology! Dear Kakumanu Rao. there r many of the rishies in Vedic heritage and is is also common for children to name their children after their parents so have been many of the rishies as well now the word Vyasa means a compile this can be any compiler of any work be it music, art, sculpture, literature, medicine, ... when we talk of Veda Vyasa there is one and only one we refer to as Vyasa muni or whatever. similarly there r many Jaimini rishies as well and one who compiled the Jaimini Sutras is the disciple, son of Parasara himself. a total off the line succession and follows the opposites of parasara model and both forms r prevailent, except that Jaimini codified the subject so cryptically in a few lines it is paced with a lot though short so not many r competitent in it or have given it a real run as comparatively parasara's school has many later evolutions with various scholars giving their versions of what they got from the main tree and called it in different names. Varahmira has also compiled many works and this is more a collection collage as he quite often said Parasra said so, garga said so , Yavanaacharya said so, no where he said it is his views, experiences etc. [again their are many Varhamiras but one who compiled Brihat Jataka, Brihat samhita is what we normally are tallking off] Best wishes - G B Prashant Kumar Life Member ICAS. http://groups. / group/Jyotish_ Remedies/ database? method=reportRow s & tbl=6 ____________ _________ _________ __ Kakumanu Rao <kumrao100 (AT) (DOT) in> Thu, February 25, 2010 4:25:08 PM Re: Origins of Vedic Astrology! hello sirs, We all know that sage Parasara was responsible for giving a new life to the present day astrology,by writing book Hora..The book contains astrological principles that were followed in some famous ashrams,at that time..I think that sage Parasara did not invent astrology by himself.He collected all the material and go it written,of course he might have given more importance to some principles,which he believed to be more true.. Similarly,sage Vyasa codified all the philosophical principles of Upanishads and named it Bhagavadgita. . Sage Varahamihira principles of astrology are quite different and his book does not take into consideration lordship of planets,as far as i know Though the book Jaimini sutras is available,very few people are following those principles.Some chapters are not understood properly.due to the code language used.. Many of the nadi astrology books written in tamil,appear to be knowing the principles of Parasara..But ,there was no book which codifies and clarifies Nadi astrology. I heard that in Kerala,they calculate the longevity of spirits and plants also.The Prasna sastra that is followed in Kerala is unique. There is a proverb in telugu that dont try to find out the lineage of warriors and yogis.. The leelas of god are varied and not amenable to any formula.. The formulas which we know about astrology in the form Vedic astrology,may be minute.There may be some other formulas.It is said that Mayan civilisation also knows astrology.We dont know their formulas.. I think we need not worry that out ancient astrology is lost.It will take rebirth again.. Thanks all astrologers of this forum for giving me your valuable time. Namaste K.Umamaheswara rao retd officer,Andhra pradesh. ____________ _________ _________ __ Vattem Krishnan <bursar_99 > Thu, 25 February, 2010 10:53:29 AM Re: Origins of Vedic Astrology! Probably the beginning and end all in understanding the universe.These are essentially visible Panch Bhootas.This certainls takes into account Voids.these voids probably have beginnings for how ,what and why making the oriigins foe a Sastra or a science and even Tarka. Vattem Krishnan Cyber Jyotish Services(For all counseling services)Dr. B.V.Raman " Fools Obey Planets While Wisemen Can Control Them " Planets are neutral Controllers of Mans Karma --- On Wed, 2/24/10, rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani@ hotmail.com> wrote: rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani@ hotmail.com> Re: Origins of Vedic Astrology! Wednesday, February 24, 2010, 11:49 PM What comes first, if I may, is the void where the question eventually finds home! Like the void where eventually is placed an egg and eventually an outcome: ANSWER! VOID creates negative emotions and negative affect and HUNGER! Foraging begins therefrom! VOID has been identified as the first cry where some agree, life begins! The metaphorical *stork* drops the baby and the 'toddling' begins! All the way up until the grave or crematorium. It is what lies between the beginning (ibtedah) and the end (intehaa) is what the survivors speak of in glory of the recently departed at the memorial! THE CONSTANT THAT NEVER CHANGES! RR_, , PG <darshan261@ ...> wrote: > > I do not think it is what comes first chicken or the egg. In this instance it is always question . Even if one believes that they might have an answer the curiousity that there may yet be another answer is the constant question. I agree the constant curiosity is the path to progressively greater understanding. > Ashok Goswami > > --- On Wed, 2/24/10, Lilly <tigresslilly2005@ ...> wrote: > > Lilly <tigresslilly2005@ ...> > Re: Origins of Vedic Astrology! > > Wednesday, February 24, 2010, 10:40 PM > > > > > > > > Â > > > > > > > > > > //First -- there was the question!In other faiths they insisted that, " First there was light! " How can there be LIGHT unless first the DARKNESS gets questioned, politely?// > > > > That's like asking " which came first- the chicken or the egg? " ! > > If you believe everything in nature to be cyclical, following some divine order or pattern than the order of question comes to never ending. > > > > Lilly > > > > , " rohinicrystal " <jyotish_vani@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > If DIVINITY exists then nothing is truly lost and will arrive back in one form or another! :-) > > > > > > If DIVINITY DOES NOT EXIST then we face a problem! We human beings would have to figure it out all by ourselves and recreate all that we think is DIVINE! > > > > > > We better get working in that case!! > > > > > > I suggest we begin with the first chapter in BPHS -- whichever version we have and that we have studied! > > > > > > ... > > > Maitraiya Uvaacha...! > > > ... > > > > > > First -- there was the question! > > > > > > In other faiths they insisted that, " First there was light! " > > > > > > How can there be LIGHT unless first the DARKNESS gets questioned, politely? > > > > > > By Maitraiya? The quintessential curiosity that was gifted to us and rests often unexplored -- within each of us? In all 'versions' that exist! The CONSTANT = CURIOSITY! > > > > > > RR_, > > > > > > > > > , " Suresh Babu.A.G " <sureshbabuag@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > //And that is where my fear is and an acute feeling of loss! What if these bodies of knowledge that remain secret die with the only remaining > > > > owner and its corollary -- written documents that did not or could not > > > > get published for a variety of reasons and have fallen in the hand of > > > > later generations who do not know the academic value of these ancient > > > > writings! God knows how many written accounts on ancient 'leaves' have > > > > been ill-preserved and possibly eaten up by termites and silverfish and > > > > other insect! I shudder even at the thought of that...!// > > > > > > > > > > > > Very true. I saw a small booklet which stated that there are 21 vyakhanas for the first verse of Varahara Hora as paramparic teachings but are lost over the time due to the above reasons. > > > > > > > > During the early 50's/60's a lot of Manuscripts were taken away by europeans particularly germans & french from several temples in kerala itself. They gave away those without realizing its value. God only knows how many were taken away thus and elsewhere in the world. Today the Sanskrit dictionary both online & printed are by germans - not Indian. That itself is a proof of what we have lost and what we are doing regarding our treasures. > > > > > > > > A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > > rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani@ > > > > > > > > > Thu, February 25, 2010 3:26:24 AM > > > > Re: Origins of Vedic Astrology! > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar jee, > > > > > > > > I think it is very well-accepted, as mentioned earlier, that Ancient Indian wisdom, like other ancient wisdom was initially preserved and propagated by the oral tradition. The traces of this tradition probably exist still and not just in Hindu Culture but other religions as well where the emphasis is placed on the memorizing and preservation. And this is not just done as an exercise to improve memory (which is a positive side-benefit) but for preservation of wisdom, literally verbatim. Over time, perhaps memories became lax and things got transferred to writing and then writing got lazier and now we end up with half a dozen versions of a given scriptural text. What has been often lamented upon as the degrading influence of Cull-Yuga. > > > > > > > > Anyone who thinks and feels that what is written and available in 'book-stores' is all there is, even in jyotish, is taking too much for granted. I realize that not ALL claims in the name of parampara or secrets of generations may be truly that but there sure is a lot that lies between the printed word and the memories that still exist but do not speak too much publicly. > > > > > > > > And that is where my fear is and an acute feeling of loss! What if these bodies of knowledge that remain secret die with the only remaining owner and its corollary -- written documents that did not or could not get published for a variety of reasons and have fallen in the hand of later generations who do not know the academic value of these ancient writings! God knows how many written accounts on ancient 'leaves' have been ill-preserved and possibly eaten up by termites and silverfish and other insect! I shudder even at the thought of that...! > > > > > > > > Rohiniranjan > > > > > > > > , " Chandrashekhar " <sharma.chandrashek har@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lilly, > > > > > > > > > > You are right. Legend has it that near end of Treta yuga Goddess Parvati said to Lord Shankara that kaliyuga is approaching and the people then shall have innumerable sufferings, so my Lord give a science that will help lessen their sufferings, and the Lord gave astrology which was then carried by Narada to the Bhuloka. But this relates to the prediction for human lives part only. The science of predicting planetary movements including eclipse and omens and their results on kings and populace existed prior to that. Mention of planetary positions at the time of birth of Lord Rama and Lord Krishna are testimony to that. Kaliyuga is said to have begun when Lord Krishna went to his heavenly abode and that is around 3102 BC so the records certainly predate 2700 years, though they were in form of memorizing the texts and manuscripts came later on. > > > > > > > > > > Take care, > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > tigresslilly2005 > > > > > > > > > > Wednesday, February 24, 2010 12:26 AM > > > > > Origins of Vedic Astrology! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Members, > > > > > > > > > > Have you ever wondered why we don't have any written documentation, or even history(with proof/ hard core evidence) that dates back prior to to 2,700 years? What was happening prior to that era? Most ancient scriptures date back only that far back in time..It's strange how those rishi's wrote the classics referring to men of Kaliyuga only.. Almost like they could foresee what was to come in the next yuga. > > > > > > > > > > Lilly > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2010 Report Share Posted February 26, 2010 Dear Chandrashekhar jee, Thank you very much for your very informative post. It is wonderful to hear about and learn from your experiences. Particularly many of the members whose sole contact with the richess of Jyotish and its illuminated cultural landscape is through the internet! Regards, Rohiniranjan , " Chandrashekhar " <sharma.chandrashekhar wrote: > > Dear Rohini Ranjan, > > I agree that the knowledge has been carried by memorizing texts of ancient sciences and I was merely pointing out the fact of when the Hora part got more refined, as indicated by legends. > > As a matter of fact even today traditional Hindu sciences are preserved more through memorizing them. Mention can be made here of Indian classical music. I am sure every one who has seen a western orchestra have seen the notations in written forms put up on stands in front of each performer. Now picture an Indian classical music concert and you will find that none of the instrumental instruments players have any notation in front of him from which they play. Hundreds of thousands of bandishes and hundreds of rhythms etc are performed, having been memorized. Even in shastras , that which is heard ( and understood) that is " Shruti " gets the highest status amongst knowledge. > > Even in jyotish I have seen nonagenarian Chandubhai Patel reciting literally thousands of shloka from Chandra Kala Nadi at a seminar in Mumbai when I had the good fortune of meeting him in person. > > Then there is Ramkripalu maharaj who recites n " number of richas from Vedas and shlokas from other scriptures and mentions the Adhyaaya, Mandala Sukta and the number of the said richas or shlokas with ease and he is in the Eighties. His disciple is a young girl who is equally at ease in doing the same. > > So the ability of Indian brain to memorize a huge body of knowledge is still available in India. As you rightly pointed out, the only negative is in knowledgeable people being reluctant to share the knowledge received through oral traditions, generally. But then the reason could also be that it is fashionable to belittle the knowledge of oral tradition and only to accept something that is written down. So some of the knowledgeable may think it better not to let on what they know through oral tradition for fear of being ridiculed by people who do not respect the oral tradition. > > On the other hand the down side is the tendency to pass off things as being part of tradition without any other supporting evidence like other disciples of the same guru vouchsafing the tradition. This is happening with more frequency in ancient Hindu sciences of late. > > The only thing that gives me solace that the oral tradition will survive all this is what my father used to say, when I was young. He once told me that one who wants to learn any divine science with an intention to help others shall always find the right Guru. He further used to say that one might read lots of books but all that knowledge can never be greater than what one can hear from his Guru's mouth. I think he was trying to tell me the importance of the oral traditions. Even Guru Geeta says " Guru vaktra sthitya vidyaa gurubhaktyaa tu labhyate " , thus confirming the importance granted to the oral tradition in ancient Hindu sciences. > > After I wrote all this, I have realized that I have become too pedantic and hope you will pardon me for this, but I could not stop myself. > > Regards, > Chandrashekhar. > > > - > rohinicrystal > > Thursday, February 25, 2010 3:26 AM > Re: Origins of Vedic Astrology! > > > > Chandrashekhar jee, > > I think it is very well-accepted,as mentioned earlier, that Ancient Indian wisdom, like other ancient wisdom was initially preserved and propagated by the oral tradition. The traces of this tradition probably exist still and not just in Hindu Culture but other religions as well where the emphasis is placed on the memorizing and preservation. And this is not just done as an exercise to improve memory (which is a positive side-benefit) but for preservation of wisdom, literally verbatim. Over time, perhaps memories became lax and things got transferred to writing and then writing got lazier and now we end up with half a dozen versions of a given scriptural text. What has been often lamented upon as the degrading influence of Cull-Yuga. > > Anyone who thinks and feels that what is written and available in 'book-stores' is all there is, even in jyotish, is taking too much for granted. I realize that not ALL claims in the name of parampara or secrets of generations may be truly that but there sure is a lot that lies between the printed word and the memories that still exist but do not speak too much publicly. > > And that is where my fear is and an acute feeling of loss! What if these bodies of knowledge that remain secret die with the only remaining owner and its corollary -- written documents that did not or could not get published for a variety of reasons and have fallen in the hand of later generations who do not know the academic value of these ancient writings! God knows how many written accounts on ancient 'leaves' have been ill-preserved and possibly eaten up by termites and silverfish and other insect! I shudder even at the thought of that...! > > Rohiniranjan > > , " Chandrashekhar " <sharma.chandrashekhar@> wrote: > > > > Dear Lilly, > > > > You are right. Legend has it that near end of Treta yuga Goddess Parvati said to Lord Shankara that kaliyuga is approaching and the people then shall have innumerable sufferings, so my Lord give a science that will help lessen their sufferings, and the Lord gave astrology which was then carried by Narada to the Bhuloka. But this relates to the prediction for human lives part only. The science of predicting planetary movements including eclipse and omens and their results on kings and populace existed prior to that. Mention of planetary positions at the time of birth of Lord Rama and Lord Krishna are testimony to that. Kaliyuga is said to have begun when Lord Krishna went to his heavenly abode and that is around 3102 BC so the records certainly predate 2700 years, though they were in form of memorizing the texts and manuscripts came later on. > > > > Take care, > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > - > > tigresslilly2005 > > > > Wednesday, February 24, 2010 12:26 AM > > Origins of Vedic Astrology! > > > > > > > > > > Dear Members, > > > > Have you ever wondered why we don't have any written documentation, or even history(with proof/ hard core evidence) that dates back prior to to 2,700 years? What was happening prior to that era? Most ancient scriptures date back only that far back in time..It's strange how those rishi's wrote the classics referring to men of Kaliyuga only.. Almost like they could foresee what was to come in the next yuga. > > > > Lilly > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2010 Report Share Posted February 26, 2010 Dear Rohini Ranjan, Thank you for bearing with me. Take care, Chandrashekhar. - rohinicrystal Friday, February 26, 2010 11:06 PM Re: Origins of Vedic Astrology! Dear Chandrashekhar jee, Thank you very much for your very informative post. It is wonderful to hear about and learn from your experiences. Particularly many of the members whose sole contact with the richess of Jyotish and its illuminated cultural landscape is through the internet! Regards, Rohiniranjan , " Chandrashekhar " <sharma.chandrashekhar wrote: > > Dear Rohini Ranjan, > > I agree that the knowledge has been carried by memorizing texts of ancient sciences and I was merely pointing out the fact of when the Hora part got more refined, as indicated by legends. > > As a matter of fact even today traditional Hindu sciences are preserved more through memorizing them. Mention can be made here of Indian classical music. I am sure every one who has seen a western orchestra have seen the notations in written forms put up on stands in front of each performer. Now picture an Indian classical music concert and you will find that none of the instrumental instruments players have any notation in front of him from which they play. Hundreds of thousands of bandishes and hundreds of rhythms etc are performed, having been memorized. Even in shastras , that which is heard ( and understood) that is " Shruti " gets the highest status amongst knowledge. > > Even in jyotish I have seen nonagenarian Chandubhai Patel reciting literally thousands of shloka from Chandra Kala Nadi at a seminar in Mumbai when I had the good fortune of meeting him in person. > > Then there is Ramkripalu maharaj who recites n " number of richas from Vedas and shlokas from other scriptures and mentions the Adhyaaya, Mandala Sukta and the number of the said richas or shlokas with ease and he is in the Eighties. His disciple is a young girl who is equally at ease in doing the same. > > So the ability of Indian brain to memorize a huge body of knowledge is still available in India. As you rightly pointed out, the only negative is in knowledgeable people being reluctant to share the knowledge received through oral traditions, generally. But then the reason could also be that it is fashionable to belittle the knowledge of oral tradition and only to accept something that is written down. So some of the knowledgeable may think it better not to let on what they know through oral tradition for fear of being ridiculed by people who do not respect the oral tradition. > > On the other hand the down side is the tendency to pass off things as being part of tradition without any other supporting evidence like other disciples of the same guru vouchsafing the tradition. This is happening with more frequency in ancient Hindu sciences of late. > > The only thing that gives me solace that the oral tradition will survive all this is what my father used to say, when I was young. He once told me that one who wants to learn any divine science with an intention to help others shall always find the right Guru. He further used to say that one might read lots of books but all that knowledge can never be greater than what one can hear from his Guru's mouth. I think he was trying to tell me the importance of the oral traditions. Even Guru Geeta says " Guru vaktra sthitya vidyaa gurubhaktyaa tu labhyate " , thus confirming the importance granted to the oral tradition in ancient Hindu sciences. > > After I wrote all this, I have realized that I have become too pedantic and hope you will pardon me for this, but I could not stop myself. > > Regards, > Chandrashekhar. > > > - > rohinicrystal > > Thursday, February 25, 2010 3:26 AM > Re: Origins of Vedic Astrology! > > > > Chandrashekhar jee, > > I think it is very well-accepted,as mentioned earlier, that Ancient Indian wisdom, like other ancient wisdom was initially preserved and propagated by the oral tradition. The traces of this tradition probably exist still and not just in Hindu Culture but other religions as well where the emphasis is placed on the memorizing and preservation. And this is not just done as an exercise to improve memory (which is a positive side-benefit) but for preservation of wisdom, literally verbatim. Over time, perhaps memories became lax and things got transferred to writing and then writing got lazier and now we end up with half a dozen versions of a given scriptural text. What has been often lamented upon as the degrading influence of Cull-Yuga. > > Anyone who thinks and feels that what is written and available in 'book-stores' is all there is, even in jyotish, is taking too much for granted. I realize that not ALL claims in the name of parampara or secrets of generations may be truly that but there sure is a lot that lies between the printed word and the memories that still exist but do not speak too much publicly. > > And that is where my fear is and an acute feeling of loss! What if these bodies of knowledge that remain secret die with the only remaining owner and its corollary -- written documents that did not or could not get published for a variety of reasons and have fallen in the hand of later generations who do not know the academic value of these ancient writings! God knows how many written accounts on ancient 'leaves' have been ill-preserved and possibly eaten up by termites and silverfish and other insect! I shudder even at the thought of that...! > > Rohiniranjan > > , " Chandrashekhar " <sharma.chandrashekhar@> wrote: > > > > Dear Lilly, > > > > You are right. Legend has it that near end of Treta yuga Goddess Parvati said to Lord Shankara that kaliyuga is approaching and the people then shall have innumerable sufferings, so my Lord give a science that will help lessen their sufferings, and the Lord gave astrology which was then carried by Narada to the Bhuloka. But this relates to the prediction for human lives part only. The science of predicting planetary movements including eclipse and omens and their results on kings and populace existed prior to that. Mention of planetary positions at the time of birth of Lord Rama and Lord Krishna are testimony to that. Kaliyuga is said to have begun when Lord Krishna went to his heavenly abode and that is around 3102 BC so the records certainly predate 2700 years, though they were in form of memorizing the texts and manuscripts came later on. > > > > Take care, > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > - > > tigresslilly2005 > > > > Wednesday, February 24, 2010 12:26 AM > > Origins of Vedic Astrology! > > > > > > > > > > Dear Members, > > > > Have you ever wondered why we don't have any written documentation, or even history(with proof/ hard core evidence) that dates back prior to to 2,700 years? What was happening prior to that era? Most ancient scriptures date back only that far back in time..It's strange how those rishi's wrote the classics referring to men of Kaliyuga only.. Almost like they could foresee what was to come in the next yuga. > > > > Lilly > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2010 Report Share Posted February 27, 2010 Dear Kulbir Bains Ji,Vedmurti Taponisth Pandit Sri Ram Sharma Acharya Ji has written ''Pragya Puran'' just few years back and it is published during his life time.Please go through this ''Pragya Puran'' and you will get the right answer in this regard as to who is the writer of all the Purans and about all the Rishis.Pragya Puran is available in every Gayatri Shakti Peeth in India and abroad. Regards, Dhirendra Nath Misra  ________________________________ Lalkitab Kb <lalkitabkb Fri, February 26, 2010 7:15:57 PM Re: Origins of Vedic Astrology!  Sir, Parshuram ji was present both at Ramayana and Mahabharata. Was he the same person or someone representing a school , a parampara?. Regards Kulbir Bains ____________ _________ _________ __ Suresh Babu.A.G <sureshbabuag@ > Thu, 25 February, 2010 8:37:07 PM Re: Origins of Vedic Astrology! Dear All, Don't be fooled into thinking that Parashara was the sole propounder of Astrology & that he has not quoted other rishis or acharyas. Just like any genuine acharyas he has also given the respect where it is due. This in fact is a mark of an acharya, not his weakness. Unlike what is being done today by neo astrologers or book writers who claim or present that what they write as their own theories or findings. Look at chapter 8 (vargavivekadhyaaya ) of Parashara Hora " tatra vridhishcha pushtishcha gargaadeenaam vacho yathaa " the usage of the word " garga aadeenaaM " clearly indicate that what has been written in Parashara Hora (supposed to be his work) has already been the opinion of not only maharshi Gargya but there are also others from whom he has based his theory. He did not mention that this is his theory at all. This is what others also has done like Acharya Varaha Mihira. This is the culture of India to give respect where it is due. Otherwise what is the need of remembering the rishi etc before starting on Mantra japa? A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy ____________ _________ _________ __ Prashant Kumar G B <gbp_kumar > Thu, February 25, 2010 5:06:38 PM Re: Origins of Vedic Astrology! Dear Kakumanu Rao. there r many of the rishies in Vedic heritage and is is also common for children to name their children after their parents so have been many of the rishies as well now the word Vyasa means a compile this can be any compiler of any work be it music, art, sculpture, literature, medicine, ... when we talk of Veda Vyasa there is one and only one we refer to as Vyasa muni or whatever. similarly there r many Jaimini rishies as well and one who compiled the Jaimini Sutras is the disciple, son of Parasara himself. a total off the line succession and follows the opposites of parasara model and both forms r prevailent, except that Jaimini codified the subject so cryptically in a few lines it is paced with a lot though short so not many r competitent in it or have given it a real run as comparatively parasara's school has many later evolutions with various scholars giving their versions of what they got from the main tree and called it in different names. Varahmira has also compiled many works and this is more a collection collage as he quite often said Parasra said so, garga said so , Yavanaacharya said so, no where he said it is his views, experiences etc. [again their are many Varhamiras but one who compiled Brihat Jataka, Brihat samhita is what we normally are tallking off] Best wishes - G B Prashant Kumar Life Member ICAS. http://groups. / group/Jyotish_ Remedies/ database? method=reportRow s & tbl=6 ____________ _________ _________ __ Kakumanu Rao <kumrao100 (AT) (DOT) in> Thu, February 25, 2010 4:25:08 PM Re: Origins of Vedic Astrology! hello sirs, We all know that sage Parasara was responsible for giving a new life to the present day astrology,by writing book Hora..The book contains astrological principles that were followed in some famous ashrams,at that time..I think that sage Parasara did not invent astrology by himself.He collected all the material and go it written,of course he might have given more importance to some principles,which he believed to be more true.. Similarly,sage Vyasa codified all the philosophical principles of Upanishads and named it Bhagavadgita. . Sage Varahamihira principles of astrology are quite different and his book does not take into consideration lordship of planets,as far as i know Though the book Jaimini sutras is available,very few people are following those principles.Some chapters are not understood properly.due to the code language used.. Many of the nadi astrology books written in tamil,appear to be knowing the principles of Parasara..But ,there was no book which codifies and clarifies Nadi astrology. I heard that in Kerala,they calculate the longevity of spirits and plants also.The Prasna sastra that is followed in Kerala is unique. There is a proverb in telugu that dont try to find out the lineage of warriors and yogis.. The leelas of god are varied and not amenable to any formula.. The formulas which we know about astrology in the form Vedic astrology,may be minute.There may be some other formulas.It is said that Mayan civilisation also knows astrology.We dont know their formulas.. I think we need not worry that out ancient astrology is lost.It will take rebirth again.. Thanks all astrologers of this forum for giving me your valuable time. Namaste K.Umamaheswara rao retd officer,Andhra pradesh. ____________ _________ _________ __ Vattem Krishnan <bursar_99 > Thu, 25 February, 2010 10:53:29 AM Re: Origins of Vedic Astrology! Probably the beginning and end all in understanding the universe.These are essentially visible Panch Bhootas.This certainls takes into account Voids.these voids probably have beginnings for how ,what and why making the oriigins foe a Sastra or a science and even Tarka. Vattem Krishnan Cyber Jyotish Services(For all counseling services)Dr. B.V.Raman " Fools Obey Planets While Wisemen Can Control Them " Planets are neutral Controllers of Mans Karma --- On Wed, 2/24/10, rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani@ hotmail.com> wrote: rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani@ hotmail.com> Re: Origins of Vedic Astrology! Wednesday, February 24, 2010, 11:49 PM What comes first, if I may, is the void where the question eventually finds home! Like the void where eventually is placed an egg and eventually an outcome: ANSWER! VOID creates negative emotions and negative affect and HUNGER! Foraging begins therefrom! VOID has been identified as the first cry where some agree, life begins! The metaphorical *stork* drops the baby and the 'toddling' begins! All the way up until the grave or crematorium. It is what lies between the beginning (ibtedah) and the end (intehaa) is what the survivors speak of in glory of the recently departed at the memorial! THE CONSTANT THAT NEVER CHANGES! RR_, , PG <darshan261@ ...> wrote: > > I do not think it is what comes first chicken or the egg. In this instance it is always question . Even if one believes that they might have an answer the curiousity that there may yet be another answer is the constant question. I agree the constant curiosity is the path to progressively greater understanding. > Ashok Goswami > > --- On Wed, 2/24/10, Lilly <tigresslilly2005@ ...> wrote: > > Lilly <tigresslilly2005@ ...> > Re: Origins of Vedic Astrology! > > Wednesday, February 24, 2010, 10:40 PM > > > > > > > > Â > > > > > > > > > > //First -- there was the question!In other faiths they insisted that, " First there was light! " How can there be LIGHT unless first the DARKNESS gets questioned, politely?// > > > > That's like asking " which came first- the chicken or the egg? " ! > > If you believe everything in nature to be cyclical, following some divine order or pattern than the order of question comes to never ending. > > > > Lilly > > > > , " rohinicrystal " <jyotish_vani@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > If DIVINITY exists then nothing is truly lost and will arrive back in one form or another! :-) > > > > > > If DIVINITY DOES NOT EXIST then we face a problem! We human beings would have to figure it out all by ourselves and recreate all that we think is DIVINE! > > > > > > We better get working in that case!! > > > > > > I suggest we begin with the first chapter in BPHS -- whichever version we have and that we have studied! > > > > > > ... > > > Maitraiya Uvaacha...! > > > ... > > > > > > First -- there was the question! > > > > > > In other faiths they insisted that, " First there was light! " > > > > > > How can there be LIGHT unless first the DARKNESS gets questioned, politely? > > > > > > By Maitraiya? The quintessential curiosity that was gifted to us and rests often unexplored -- within each of us? In all 'versions' that exist! The CONSTANT = CURIOSITY! > > > > > > RR_, > > > > > > > > > , " Suresh Babu.A.G " <sureshbabuag@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > //And that is where my fear is and an acute feeling of loss! What if these bodies of knowledge that remain secret die with the only remaining > > > > owner and its corollary -- written documents that did not or could not > > > > get published for a variety of reasons and have fallen in the hand of > > > > later generations who do not know the academic value of these ancient > > > > writings! God knows how many written accounts on ancient 'leaves' have > > > > been ill-preserved and possibly eaten up by termites and silverfish and > > > > other insect! I shudder even at the thought of that...!// > > > > > > > > > > > > Very true. I saw a small booklet which stated that there are 21 vyakhanas for the first verse of Varahara Hora as paramparic teachings but are lost over the time due to the above reasons. > > > > > > > > During the early 50's/60's a lot of Manuscripts were taken away by europeans particularly germans & french from several temples in kerala itself. They gave away those without realizing its value. God only knows how many were taken away thus and elsewhere in the world. Today the Sanskrit dictionary both online & printed are by germans - not Indian. That itself is a proof of what we have lost and what we are doing regarding our treasures. > > > > > > > > A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > > rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani@ > > > > > > > > > Thu, February 25, 2010 3:26:24 AM > > > > Re: Origins of Vedic Astrology! > > > > > > > > > > > > Chandrashekhar jee, > > > > > > > > I think it is very well-accepted, as mentioned earlier, that Ancient Indian wisdom, like other ancient wisdom was initially preserved and propagated by the oral tradition. The traces of this tradition probably exist still and not just in Hindu Culture but other religions as well where the emphasis is placed on the memorizing and preservation. And this is not just done as an exercise to improve memory (which is a positive side-benefit) but for preservation of wisdom, literally verbatim. Over time, perhaps memories became lax and things got transferred to writing and then writing got lazier and now we end up with half a dozen versions of a given scriptural text. What has been often lamented upon as the degrading influence of Cull-Yuga. > > > > > > > > Anyone who thinks and feels that what is written and available in 'book-stores' is all there is, even in jyotish, is taking too much for granted. I realize that not ALL claims in the name of parampara or secrets of generations may be truly that but there sure is a lot that lies between the printed word and the memories that still exist but do not speak too much publicly. > > > > > > > > And that is where my fear is and an acute feeling of loss! What if these bodies of knowledge that remain secret die with the only remaining owner and its corollary -- written documents that did not or could not get published for a variety of reasons and have fallen in the hand of later generations who do not know the academic value of these ancient writings! God knows how many written accounts on ancient 'leaves' have been ill-preserved and possibly eaten up by termites and silverfish and other insect! I shudder even at the thought of that...! > > > > > > > > Rohiniranjan > > > > > > > > , " Chandrashekhar " <sharma.chandrashek har@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lilly, > > > > > > > > > > You are right. Legend has it that near end of Treta yuga Goddess Parvati said to Lord Shankara that kaliyuga is approaching and the people then shall have innumerable sufferings, so my Lord give a science that will help lessen their sufferings, and the Lord gave astrology which was then carried by Narada to the Bhuloka. But this relates to the prediction for human lives part only. The science of predicting planetary movements including eclipse and omens and their results on kings and populace existed prior to that. Mention of planetary positions at the time of birth of Lord Rama and Lord Krishna are testimony to that. Kaliyuga is said to have begun when Lord Krishna went to his heavenly abode and that is around 3102 BC so the records certainly predate 2700 years, though they were in form of memorizing the texts and manuscripts came later on. > > > > > > > > > > Take care, > > > > > Chandrashekhar. > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > tigresslilly2005 > > > > > > > > > > Wednesday, February 24, 2010 12:26 AM > > > > > Origins of Vedic Astrology! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Members, > > > > > > > > > > Have you ever wondered why we don't have any written documentation, or even history(with proof/ hard core evidence) that dates back prior to to 2,700 years? What was happening prior to that era? Most ancient scriptures date back only that far back in time..It's strange how those rishi's wrote the classics referring to men of Kaliyuga only.. Almost like they could foresee what was to come in the next yuga. > > > > > > > > > > Lilly > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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