Guest guest Posted March 24, 2010 Report Share Posted March 24, 2010 Dear Tanvir ji, Ethics and approach matter more than monetary considerations. We have many members who have degrees from various registered institutions teaching jyotish. Can any one claim that the exams conducted by these institutions involve no cheating. I would rather ask you to visit their examination centre and see the modus operandi of exams being conducted; better still, get enrolled, sit for exams and have first hand experience. Regards Kulbir Bains. On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 8:19 PM, king_tanvir <lord_rex wrote: > > > Vattem Ji > > I agree to you. Sadly but true that, money is being involved everywhere now > days. Jyotish research needs some serious financial sponsorship so that one > can devote into itself in a full-time professional manner. Scientific > researches in early days were often sponsored by govt., or when the > scientists sold patients etc., I have even read that someone [Watt or > Franklin? Not sure] was almost penniless conducting his researches... he > used to save money hard and then continue research again and eventually stop > later. > > Today scientific researches are backed up by business organizations and > they invest in order to get a lot more return from it when the research is > successful and reaches its goal and the product is launched. > > To take jyotish into that height of prestidge and authenticness the > readings should be charged minimum 250-300 USD so that an astrologer can > devote as good as 6-7 hrs in full time research and can live decently by the > reading fees. > > And no one would, or even SHOULD pay this much for a reading today, because > 'we' dont even know who is a genuine astrologer. For that, certified coarses > should be there like Chartered Accountancy [CA] or Chartered Financial > Professionals [CFA] to ensure that the standard is maintained. Yes there ARE > courses around which are prestigious but with due respect, they just teach > the theory in a bookish way from standard text, even I could be a teacher > that way. But prediction is a lot different as you truly practicing > astrologers can feel. > > By the way I answered Lilly's quiz in JR, may be you missed it. I would > request Lilly to post the answer because I don't think anyone would try it > anymore. > > Regards > Tanvir > > <%40>, > Vattem Krishnan <bursar_99 wrote: > > > > Dear Shri Tanveer ji and others, > > For science to develop there is need to promote research.It is in science > every body evinces interest as it pays back to the effort put in.where as > jyotish,also has potential for research.But that research can not aimed and > promoted through the public forums.It needs serious attentions as pointed > out by Mr Tanveer > > //Science develops because there are continuous researches.// > > 2.As regards quizzes do certainly help in teasing the brains and a > deviation from routine stuff of answering curios landing questions on > employment and having children or no etc > > 3.Even if Astrologers out of their own awreness suggest for remedies for > improvement of the lot,these remedies are never done seriously.It is just > beating bush. > > 4.These forums certainly have been helping the jyotish indirectly in > sharing knowledge and ventilating the idesPossibly these opinions may > stimulare minds for knowing the facts and promote jyotish. > > 5.For serious minds to go into theoritical aspects and delve into > jyotish,there are bodies existing where one has opportunity to invest his > time and promote jyotish research.The research however is not whether saturn > impedes or helps constructively to the growth. > > 6.Jyotish being a wisdom coming out of interaction of planets in the > nature,how planets movements have impact on the life of the humans in > particulars and others in mundane perspectives. > > 6.may be since the topic has come for discusion we can think of laying a > limit on routine readings and come up with specifics.In fact all > seniors,having experience and knowing the subjects can throw light.Recently > an ideas was expressed to study charts of those who have attained > existential heights and brought glory to humanity.Like Martin Luther > King,Guatam Buddha and the likes of Dali lama. > > if some thing universally could be concluded out of their lives,it is > good that we can that x having so and so planets can become a saint and be a > role model for others. > > P.S:The quiz sponsored and replied as per wishes of Lilly has not yet > been finalised.the answers ahve not seen the light if Iam not wrong! > > Even Shri tanveer ji's your reply to quiz must have been made directly to > her. . > > > > Vattem Krishnan Cyber Jyotish Services(For all counseling > services)Dr.B.V.Raman " Fools Obey Planets While  Wisemen Can Control > Them " Planets are neutral Controllers of Mans Karma > > > > --- On Tue, 3/23/10, king_tanvir <lord_rex wrote: > > > > king_tanvir <lord_rex > > I DISAGREE -- Re: NOTE... 9/02 > > <%40> > > Tuesday, March 23, 2010, 2:49 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2010 Report Share Posted March 25, 2010 Dada, Why do you assume as an axiom that Jyotish is a Science! (Your point #2)! Why this infatuation of Jyotishis (full-timers and part-timers) with this WOOLMARK of global acceptance -- seemingly! This gold-medal known as Science? Would the utility of Jyotish have diminished one bit if it were say, an art? Or craft?? Like Ashtamangalaa for instance? Why must we try to fit something that COVERS and CONTAINS the entire human experience as a DESCRIPTOR into the small box known as SCIENCE? RR_, , Vattem Krishnan <bursar_99 wrote: > > Dear Shri Kulbir Ji and members, > 1.Exam system,cheating by Gurus and students and purchase of degrees maladies that can not be blunted are actually different issues. That kind of corruption or cheating(what evr is appropriate) is a different issues which we should leave to the conscious of those who acquired and their later competencies and success in life. > 2.Jyotish like any other science is also potential subject for people interested in taking up research.How far it can be viable.Some reputed universities get funding for research on jyotish.Even services of jyotish have been used for training potential people for choosing team for in the last olympics.A very senior person having high reputation in Astrology but belonging to judicial services has studied skills vis-a-vis their fortune to get medals in olympics. > 3.In the forum some memebers find very drab and frustating to take up same topics with different names.Instead they feel quizzing becomes more interesting than day in and day out attend the queries (being made and answered become stereo types) Even we have seen members at the age of 16 yrs too v have been getting worried about future and pose questions out of curiosity. > Also after 4th dat of the birth people ask whether my son has potential to become Astrologer etc/.Evidently there is lot of curiosity is seen and observed in the activities of the forum. > A girl in 20s asks what type of husband I will get AND WILL HAVE happy married life? > 4.All these questions might be sound but b4 commencing the life they want to have the curiosity fulfilled.This is what shri Tanveer ji has been mentioning about. > 5.Research funding is an issue and whther this can be constituted through the introduction of professional approach by fee and invest more time in furthering the jyotish studies. > 6.I agree with you in the perils of getting degrees by way of mass copying etc.The remedy for this lies beyond our scope in the forum as what ever we sum up and conslude here is of no value for the administrators of exam system. > Of course,this has been realised and the root cause of corruption needs to be tackled by changing various things including present politiacal vinatage.Iam sure shri Baba Ramdev Ji has expressed openly to reform society and bring freshness and ideals. > 7.In the forum however collective wisdom can contribute to the growth and development of jyotish and come out with models that can answer successfully possibilities of good monsoon or otherwise and find people to take leadership and identify etc would serve as a better cause than to get involved in routine and curious queries. > 8.we have learned members but getting bogged down with routine issues instead they might look for space to promote and unravel jyotish research > Vattem Krishnan > Cyber Jyotish Services > (For all counseling services) > Dr.B.V.Raman " Fools Obey Planets While Wisemen Can Control Them " > Planets are neutral Controllers of Mans Karma > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2010 Report Share Posted March 25, 2010 Dada, Just for a moment my contention is: Every science is an art also.Also every leaves scope for science. Science as you mentioned might be a " closed " square.Yet it has other side to " imagine " " guess " and " conjure " with out these fine elements part of nature and a human, science would not have had a proper base.what was yesterday is not today in this happening world.To name it innovation might not be correct too.But an endeavour,a logical reasoning and the scientific/closed approach to understand and figure it out better. In fact my contention is not about a vertical divide between " science and art " of Nature Nor am I intend to take memories what Ruskin,a Nobel Lauret has thought of science and art. Jyotish basically a derivative 'every thing in Nature " Be it light,dark or rain or no rain that is basic for all living systems.Study of these aspects, wise people thought in a comprehensive way in Jyotish in a methodical way by way of zodiacs,signs and what not.if some of these form metaphysical issues and possible delineate either as a science or as an art through research,it will develop and to become more intimate to the society. 2.unfortunately the society we are " in is gettng patented.we may not like .But the wool marks have become signs for grades and standards.In fact Knowledge is no doubt seamless.probably it is to make it extended beyond " horizons " I feel human endeavours have no limits to test and get convinced or make sure his belief is not another illusion.In the process probably some times basic concepts might look as if they have gone hay wire. I do not want to make " Knowledge' very rich and has no bounds to box it and term as such.After it is an inquiry of process to learn of " how.what and why " ' From these(three " I " terms) some better could be made out my contention better we think in the direction. Vattem Krishnan Cyber Jyotish Services(For all counseling services)Dr.B.V.Raman " Fools Obey Planets While  Wisemen Can Control Them " Planets are neutral Controllers of Mans Karma --- On Wed, 3/24/10, rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani wrote: rohinicrystal <jyotish_vani I DISAGREE -- Re: NOTE... 9/02 Wednesday, March 24, 2010, 7:02 PM  Dada, Why do you assume as an axiom that Jyotish is a Science! (Your point #2)! Why this infatuation of Jyotishis (full-timers and part-timers) with this WOOLMARK of global acceptance -- seemingly! This gold-medal known as Science? Would the utility of Jyotish have diminished one bit if it were say, an art? Or craft?? Like Ashtamangalaa for instance? Why must we try to fit something that COVERS and CONTAINS the entire human experience as a DESCRIPTOR into the small box known as SCIENCE? RR_, , Vattem Krishnan <bursar_99@. ..> wrote: > > Dear Shri Kulbir Ji and members, > 1.Exam system,cheating by Gurus and students and purchase of degrees maladies that can not be blunted are actually different issues. That kind of corruption or cheating(what evr is appropriate) is a different issues which we should leave to the conscious of those who acquired and their later competencies and success in life. > 2.Jyotish like any other science is also potential subject for people interested in taking up research.How far it can be viable.Some reputed universities get funding for research on jyotish.Even services of jyotish have been used for training potential people for choosing team for in the last olympics.A very senior person having high reputation in Astrology but belonging to judicial services has studied skills vis-a-vis their fortune to get medals in olympics. > 3.In the forum some memebers find very drab and frustating to take up same topics with different names.Instead they feel quizzing becomes more interesting than day in and day out attend the queries (being made and answered become stereo types) Even we have seen members at the age of 16 yrs too v have been getting worried about future and pose questions out of curiosity. > Also after 4th dat of the birth people ask whether my son has potential to become Astrologer etc/.Evidently there is lot of curiosity is seen and observed in the activities of the forum. > A girl in 20s asks what type of husband I will get AND WILL HAVE happy married life? > 4.All these questions might be sound but b4 commencing the life they want to have the curiosity fulfilled.This is what shri Tanveer ji has been mentioning about. > 5.Research funding is an issue and whther this can be constituted through the introduction of professional approach by fee and invest more time in furthering the jyotish studies. > 6.I agree with you in the perils of getting degrees by way of mass copying etc.The remedy for this lies beyond our scope in the forum as what ever we sum up and conslude here is of no value for the administrators of exam system. > Of course,this has been realised and the root cause of corruption needs to be tackled by changing various things including present politiacal vinatage.Iam sure shri Baba Ramdev Ji has expressed openly to reform society and bring freshness and ideals. > 7.In the forum however collective wisdom can contribute to the growth and development of jyotish and come out with models that can answer successfully possibilities of good monsoon or otherwise and find people to take leadership and identify etc would serve as a better cause than to get involved in routine and curious queries. > 8.we have learned members but getting bogged down with routine issues instead they might look for space to promote and unravel jyotish research > Vattem Krishnan > Cyber Jyotish Services > (For all counseling services) > Dr.B.V.Raman " Fools Obey Planets While  Wisemen Can Control Them " > Planets are neutral Controllers of Mans Karma > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2010 Report Share Posted March 25, 2010 Dear Rohini Ranjan, In a way I agree with you. Jyotish is a shastra which is based on certain philosophy and is therefore more than a science. I still do not understand why shastra is translated as science. We had 36 shastras and 64 kalas and they do not match what is called science or arts/humanities in the western world. An example is Natya shastra is not categorized as science by the west. Chandrashekhar. - rohinicrystal Thursday, March 25, 2010 4:32 AM I DISAGREE -- Re: NOTE... 9/02 Dada, Why do you assume as an axiom that Jyotish is a Science! (Your point #2)! Why this infatuation of Jyotishis (full-timers and part-timers) with this WOOLMARK of global acceptance -- seemingly! This gold-medal known as Science? Would the utility of Jyotish have diminished one bit if it were say, an art? Or craft?? Like Ashtamangalaa for instance? Why must we try to fit something that COVERS and CONTAINS the entire human experience as a DESCRIPTOR into the small box known as SCIENCE? RR_, , Vattem Krishnan <bursar_99 wrote: > > Dear Shri Kulbir Ji and members, > 1.Exam system,cheating by Gurus and students and purchase of degrees maladies that can not be blunted are actually different issues. That kind of corruption or cheating(what evr is appropriate) is a different issues which we should leave to the conscious of those who acquired and their later competencies and success in life. > 2.Jyotish like any other science is also potential subject for people interested in taking up research.How far it can be viable.Some reputed universities get funding for research on jyotish.Even services of jyotish have been used for training potential people for choosing team for in the last olympics.A very senior person having high reputation in Astrology but belonging to judicial services has studied skills vis-a-vis their fortune to get medals in olympics. > 3.In the forum some memebers find very drab and frustating to take up same topics with different names.Instead they feel quizzing becomes more interesting than day in and day out attend the queries (being made and answered become stereo types) Even we have seen members at the age of 16 yrs too v have been getting worried about future and pose questions out of curiosity. > Also after 4th dat of the birth people ask whether my son has potential to become Astrologer etc/.Evidently there is lot of curiosity is seen and observed in the activities of the forum. > A girl in 20s asks what type of husband I will get AND WILL HAVE happy married life? > 4.All these questions might be sound but b4 commencing the life they want to have the curiosity fulfilled.This is what shri Tanveer ji has been mentioning about. > 5.Research funding is an issue and whther this can be constituted through the introduction of professional approach by fee and invest more time in furthering the jyotish studies. > 6.I agree with you in the perils of getting degrees by way of mass copying etc.The remedy for this lies beyond our scope in the forum as what ever we sum up and conslude here is of no value for the administrators of exam system. > Of course,this has been realised and the root cause of corruption needs to be tackled by changing various things including present politiacal vinatage.Iam sure shri Baba Ramdev Ji has expressed openly to reform society and bring freshness and ideals. > 7.In the forum however collective wisdom can contribute to the growth and development of jyotish and come out with models that can answer successfully possibilities of good monsoon or otherwise and find people to take leadership and identify etc would serve as a better cause than to get involved in routine and curious queries. > 8.we have learned members but getting bogged down with routine issues instead they might look for space to promote and unravel jyotish research > Vattem Krishnan > Cyber Jyotish Services > (For all counseling services) > Dr.B.V.Raman " Fools Obey Planets While Wisemen Can Control Them " > Planets are neutral Controllers of Mans Karma > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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