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Dear Shri Srivastav Ji and members,

Sutra is always a short statement that signifies many principles involved and

canbe open to test and application.

It is modern day's Statement of Purpose carrying research content.Yogas on other

hand are arising out of planets mutuality as well as other incidenal issues for

yogas to be effective in reality and is subject to native's own pursuits.It is

certainly not the application as theory exists for planetary combination.

The least of course is not the stage when yogas present in a chart can really

express and give results to the native.The astrologers need all acumen in

prediction when yogas are present in a chart to raise hopes of native to present

the future as rosy.we also be cautious to think of conditional yogas and their

capabilities to give result as per classicals.

Suresh Ji is also right in questioning who has tested how many yogas work

 

well or not. No one will be able to answer this question with assurance.//

we have very classical examples of eminent people who despite yogas could not

have benifits yielding to them.In some cases yogas have given effect but by that

time the prime life has already been passed.

we have the example lare shri krishna kant who despite his illustrous conduct

could not fulfil his ambition .also HIS PREMATURE DEATH at a crucila stage of

life.Also the case of late shri Pramod Mahajan etc.

 

//I agree with Rohiniranjan Ji's guess that many yogas do not work

properly

 

(either due to faults in Ganita or due to faults in manuscripts)// .

In the context of results as projected and as perceived by the native there

might be huge disparity in the yogas endorsing results to native.

Ultimately if yogas r indicative for success in life,it is certain that no

success will be in reach with out struggle and ambition to attain name and fame.

In some cases of hard work and attainment of success it is difficult to say that

yogas have not given results.other wise the native what ever he has achieved

would not have but for feeble expression of yogas.

About internet and sharing of knowledge by scholars,it is certainly a great

positive effort indicating their willingness to provide guidance to resolve

sevral complex issues.It is for the users/members to take positive spirit and

willingness to learn from the valuable efforts being made selflessly by these

scholars.

 

Vattem Krishnan Cyber Jyotish Services(For all counseling

services)Dr.B.V.Raman " Fools Obey Planets While  Wisemen Can Control

Them " Planets are neutral Controllers of Mans Karma 

 

--- On Sat, 4/3/10, R C Srivastava <swami.rcs wrote:

 

R C Srivastava <swami.rcs

Sutra literature & sanskrit

 

Saturday, April 3, 2010, 10:59 PM

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

OM Guruve Namah

 

 

 

//If we replace Adarsh with Darsh, the sutras become senseless. Then, first

 

sutra would refer to one topic and next sutra to another, which is ruled out

 

by the syntax. Such problems can be solved by consulting Sanskrit scholars,

 

not by deriding them. It is foolish to waste one's time in shaastraarthas

 

over internet which has no regulating authority. Why these people do not

 

visit Sanskrit universities and take the opinions of various scholars??

 

Internet is not a reliable source of authentic academic opinion.//

 

 

 

The above quote from one of the mails on list speaks volumes in it. Please

 

look at tone and meaning.

 

 

 

To understand the context new students need awareness of a few

 

fundamentals, before we carry forward meaningful discussion.

 

 

 

Introduction:

 

 

 

After crystilasition of knowledge preceding Upanishadic period it took

 

centuries to develop philosophic thought .Then arose to systematization of

 

each school of thought. Jyotish was not different. From 18 Rsi great volume

 

of knowledge arose and here also Sutra Literature were created.

 

 

 

So Systematic treatises were written in short aphorism called Sutras,

 

meaning clues, and were

 

 

 

Intended to memory aids to long discussion on any topic which the student

 

has learned with his guru. The main thought used to be highly condensed and

 

much was taken for granted.

 

 

 

See

 

 

 

ALpa]rmsiNdGx sarviÖñtaemuom

 

 

 

AStaeÉmnvx c suÇ! suÇivdae ivÊ>

 

 

 

alpäkñaramasandigdha säravadviçvatomukhama

 

 

 

astobhamanavadha ca sutr sutravido viduù

 

 

 

( Note there is slight mistake in reproduction of sloka for technical error

 

Please read it duly corrected)

 

 

 

People learned in Sutra literature , say, that a Sutra should be oncise and

 

UNAMBIGUOUS, give the essenceof the arguments on the topic but at the same

 

time deal with all aspect of the question , be free from repetetion and

 

faultless.

 

 

 

However the definition is too strict and desire for brevity was carried to

 

such heights that in practice that most part of sutra literatre is now

 

unintelligible.

 

 

 

Jaimini does not appears to be founder of any system, and evidently it is

 

possible that

 

 

 

System of knowledge may embrace more than one system propunded by rsis among

 

18 whose works are no more avaiable.

 

 

 

Because of larger interests in sutra literary writings evolved in form of

 

Vakyas, Vrittis. Karika and Bhashyas, Each of them giving more and more

 

elaborate then previous type of writing.

 

 

 

I will quote just one Sutra and move ahead.

 

 

 

Sutra 1.1.35 states

 

 

 

haerady> isÃa>

 

 

 

horädayaù siddhäù

 

 

 

ShB.S.Rao has translated it From General literature Of astrology learn all

 

The details about HORA Drekkana Saptamsa, Navamsa Etc.

 

 

 

Now Neelkanth has` also taken from AADI to mean as above.

 

 

 

Hora and other division should be prepared from other texts.

 

 

 

One who is not initiated can also read between the lines.

 

 

 

Hora is formed by dropping of Aaa in beginning and Tra in end from

 

Ahoraaatra.

 

 

 

In common parlance Hora menas whole Jyotish shastra.

 

 

 

So One an think Sutra says Jaimini sutra are for those who have mastered

 

Hora shastra

 

 

 

So Sutra literature has different Dimension than expertise in grammar rules

 

of Language

 

 

 

se-man-tics (si man'tiks) n. (used with a sing. v.)

 

 

 

1. a. a branch of linguistics dealing with the study

 

of meaning, including the

 

 

 

ways meaning is structured in language and

 

changes in meaning and

 

 

 

form over time.

 

 

 

2. the branch of semiotics or logic dealing with the

 

relationship between signs or

 

 

 

symbols and what they denote.

 

 

 

3. the meaning, or an interpretation of the meaning, of a

 

word, sign, sentence,

 

 

 

etc.: Let's not argue about semantics.

 

 

 

4. GENERAL SEMANTICS.

 

 

 

************ ********* ********* ********* ********* ********* *********

********* *

 

************ ********* ********* ********* *****1. Then, first sutra would refer

 

to one topic and next sutra to another, which is ruled out by the syntax

 

 

 

Context has been Sutra 2.3.1 and 2.3.2.

 

 

 

When The ascendant is an odd sign the Navamsa dasa begins from it.

 

 

 

When Ascendant is an even sign the Navamsa dasa begins from the Adarsa Sign.

 

 

 

Simply stating Adarsa sign is the other sign owned by the lord of ascendant

 

excepting

 

 

 

Lumaniries and Saturn.

 

 

 

Another group of astrologers use principle of Abhimukh, but this does not

 

guarantee

 

 

 

initiation of dasa from Odd sign.

 

 

 

Another set of astrologers interpret adarsa to mean the fourth.

 

 

 

Actual discussion centered about these view points.

 

 

 

Now one can blissfully assume that what grammar says , but these are the

 

views of great Sanskrit scholars whose knowledge of Sanskrit was not

 

supposed to be less.

 

 

 

Prof P.S.Shastri has stated in his notes adarsa literally means a mirror.

 

The mirror image faces the observer directly, and hence it is called

 

abhimukha. Then He Goes on narrating what should be correct meaning.

 

 

 

Therefore Dear Knowledge of Sanskrit Grammar is needed but is not everything

 

,in interpreting Para vidhya, That every scholar knows well.

 

 

 

2.* consulting Sanskrit scholars, not by deriding them

 

 

 

Sanskrit scholars are crown of knowledge But if , Like a Brahmin who learned

 

all the sashtra

 

 

 

And asked boatman to help crossing the river which was in spate. Brahman was

 

intoxicated by knowledge. So he start humiliating boatman by asking

 

question have you read Vyakaran Have you read arthshastra etc Boatman said

 

NO sir

 

 

 

Then as luck would have it, Boat trapped in bhawar.Boatman Asked Brahma

 

Have you learned swimming. Reply was NO.

 

 

 

Boatman saved his life saying , Look you are going to lose life . What’s the

 

use, If you knew swimming Could be You might have saved your life.

 

 

 

So is the case of People who show off their knowledge by shastrath. Times

 

have changed. one should Make correct prediction to help people if

 

possible. There is hardly any need to show knowledge.

 

 

 

3. shaastraarthas over internet which has no regulating authority

 

 

 

We are not living in age of adi sankaracharya. Much water has` flown in

 

Ganges.

 

 

 

We could be flexible.

 

 

 

4. reliable source of authentic academic opinion.

 

 

 

APp dIpae Év>

 

 

 

appa dépo bhavaù

 

 

 

5. My students are teaching Jyotisha in PG departments of recognized

 

Sanskrit universities ; they know only a master of Sanskrit grammar is

 

allowed to give his/her own opinion on grammatical aspects, others can only

 

quote the masters.

 

 

 

Well Does this apply to Vedas , vedanga and Sutra literature. My dear friend

 

just contemplates.

 

 

 

There are six layers of meaning of Vedas and several of vedanga and sutra.

 

Here grammar is helpful but real help is from other sources , That is

 

fundamental to creation .

 

 

 

With best regard.

 

 

 

RC

 

 

 

6. The difference between Adarsh and Darsh is simply due to wrong

 

sandhi-vichchheda by modern commentators. Those who are recognized experts

 

of this field should be consulted. Anything published on paper or on

 

internet is not gold.

 

 

 

Suresh Ji is also right in questioning who has tested how many yogas work

 

well or not. No one will be able to answer this question with assurance. But

 

I agree with Rohiniranjan Ji's guess that many yogas do not work properly

 

(either due to faults in Ganita or due to faults in manuscripts) . The only

 

thing I do not like is the idea of PARKING. If I have no time for

 

researching a particular thing, I will certainly park it off temporarily,

 

but I will never ask others to do the same, because that would lead to

 

permanent parking off of that topic without proper investigation

 

 

 

OM TAT SAT

 

 

 

R. C. SRIVASTAVA

 

 

 

 

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