Guest guest Posted December 19, 2009 Report Share Posted December 19, 2009 Vattem Krishnan Ji, (1) Evolutionism is a popular 'hypothesis' of modern era and NOT an established fact. Never any missing link has been found which could prove the origin of any specie from changes in any previous specie. (2) Even if some hypoyhesis such as Evolutionism proves to be a real theory, it does not become " SAT " . Human concepts are not SAT, being human beings are themselkves not SAT. SAT is what has a permanent SATTAA, I am repeating it, and I hope you will not ignore this original definition of SAT. I have no right to redefine Sanskrit terms according to my whims and fancies. Anything which is not everlasting is not SAT. Hence, only Atman is SAT. Vedic Jyotisha must not go counter to Vedic philosophy. For a Vedic definition of SAT, please read the last verse of White Yajurveda (Hiranyamayena Paatrena Satyasya... : see the file 'Yajna' in files section uploaded few months ago by me in this group). SAT cannot be properly translated into English. English-medium educated persons, who are deficient in Sanskrit, sometimes define Sanskrit terms according to nearest English counterparts of those terms and do not guess that such attempts result in quite different meanings, more often than not. SAT cannot be apprehended by means of debate. Its only path is practical application of proper philosophy. From the viewpoint of SAT, there are four types of persons : (a) those who acquired Saatvika nature during past life and are fit for Samaadhi merely by means of upadesha by a real Guru. Vyaasa Ji calls them Uttam Yogi (cf. Vyaasa Bhaashya of Yoga-darshana). (b) those who are not so pious and must undergo Kriyaa-yoga for becoming fit for Samaadhi, they are madhyama-yogis (tapasvis). © those who are allured towards Yoga due to various Vibhootis (magical accomplishments). Such persons want to remain on this bank of Vaitarani and long for benefits of that side as well : they commit sins and go to temples & c too. Desire to remain on both sides of Vaitarani is a sign of Vi-kshipta (insane) - the term used for such persons by Vyaasa Ji. (d) those who are perfectly atheists and believe this sensory world to be ultimate reality (SAT). Vyaasa Ji calls them kshipta ( " thrown away " from SAT or GOD). (e) those who care neither for SAT nor for ASAT or MAAYAA. Thay are Moodha (fools) according to Vyaasa Ji. Rgveda clearly says SAT is GOD (ekam sat vipra bahudha vadanti). SAT is not a fact of sensory world. SAT is transcendental. Direct perception of SAT is possible only by means of sixth sense, which modern man has lost during its so-called evolution. Even the supporters of evolutionism do not mean it is a linear process. According to evolutionism, each specie evolve out of some missing link of previous specie and is SUPERIOR from the former in its capacity of adaptation to Nature, but each new specie gradually fails to survive and becomes extinct because Nature is not changeless. But decadent species do not know they are destined to die out. Human specie is also not eternal. The natural habitats which gave rise to our specie have degraded a lot, esp during the industrial era. If human life succeeds in surviving in such artificial Natural circumstances, it will be possible only by means of only a new specie able to adapt itself to new conditions. Human values are not SAT merely because they are human. SAT is eternal by dint of its very grammatical definition. Heritage is NOT retention. The starting mantra of sandhyaa-vandana (RV,X-191) is " rtam cha satyam cha tapaso abhikaayate " (= RT and SAT come out of Tapa, ie, if tapa is performed, RT and SAT will appear, otherwise they remain hidden which is mentioned in the last verse of White Yajurveda I cited above; SAT is indestructible but it is hidden unless we make ourselves fit for apprehending it). I must repeat that misuse of language disables us from understanding the ancients. The ancients did NOT speak of fire as fire : they called it Agni which was deduced from a root which had no connection with any physical attribute of fire : the etymological meaning of Agni is " One Who can move tortuously/secretly (to all worlds, and is therefore capable of providing havis to all Devas). The moment we translate Agni as mere physical fire, we kill SAT (SAT is never killed, we shut our own eyes to it). Sir, I admire your scientific spirit, your humanism and liberalism. But all these superb concepts are transient, and any individual or specie will ultimately be lost into oblivion with all its humanism or anti-humanism, and only that portion will remain which is SAT. SAT is that portion of the Jeeva which is part and parcel of the Divine Spark. Practical knowledge of this transcendental and eternal (Sanaatana) knowledge is Veda, and the Eye which enables us to see the SAT in us and in others is Jyotisha. The rest is Maayaa, however scientific or artistic it may apprear for the time being. It is Jyotisha which gives us tangible proofs of existence of soul and its rebirths, Karma and phala, etc. You already know all these things. -VJ ================== === , Vattem Krishnan <bursar_99 wrote: > > Dear Shri Jha Ji, > 1.You mentioned about evolution concept of Nature that is proved to be a scientific as both elements of quality and quantity are considered as tools/This  concept is ofcourse wisdom and is also sat. > 2..Like wise v have cultural evolution which some times carries of the past that mainly deals with sat.For the present sat is un explored fact and it is convincing w/o need of any explanation. > It is human value that made to think,respect and hold for future is sat.That is what is more qualitative implication than absolute and quantitative aspect.we would hesitate to attempt to verify veracity of sat.it cam b accepted w/o or with logic.For me sat unexplored aspect of Brahma/Gnana aspect. >  // " The Great Age of Sat gave us those things which are of > permanent value to us, even after we die. " Vedic Astrology is a part of > this heritage//. > 2.(i)Heritage is retention and comes out of the mechanism of evolution.Of this the non scientific aspect of evolution is heritage.As human being in any yuga/time frame we find qualitative aspect.The qualitative issues r purely human beings efforts and their ability to fulfil dreams what ever might be. > ii)In the yuga termed as Kali people have preferred to invest energies on aspect different from philosophies and any ancient wisdom.They want the Nature (or Mother Nature as accpeted understood ) as seen and observed to be explored to make findings different from fiath and beliefs.as "  discoveries " .More to find BIg Bang is more scientific than non scientific whether it is cited and respected in Bible or else where v called it Pralaya or end of the Yuga in our understandable wisdom > iii)These yugas as v find have degrees of variations with reference to rulers and ruled .This ofcourse as informed through various scriptures. > That's why our vedic jyotish dealt in a descriptive manner about mundane aspect of jyostih b4 they got into the issues of Man's destiny.Here initially it was phlita as one aspect.But came the intention to also find what is cosmic and how effective it is to make and mar destinies of one all.This involved investigation,understanding and inferences by way emperical and quantitive approaches. > 3.Irrespective of ages it is the wisdom of the Human that was acclaimed for all times.They are the ancients who spoke fire as fire as and water as water.These revealaltions of wisdom is taken as sat that continued to be respected and retained.Every one is very fond of sat.Does not put energy what actaully is sat.So it is faith but not bilnd. > // It is foolish to imagine that the rules of Phalita > Jyotisha were discovered through empirical observation and testing// > IN the process as the times change,geneartions pass on the batons like in a relay race the phalit initially an intelliegent concept now gradually assuming scientific proportions.I am sure that therm phalit as conceived by our wise man has the roots for modern man to explore, blieve and make it scietific aspect. > > > Vattem Krishnan > Cyber Jyotish Services > (For all counseling services) > Dr.B.V.Raman " Fools Obey Planets While  Wisemen Can Control Them " > Planets are neutral Controllers of Mans Karma >  > > --- On Fri, 12/18/09, VJha vinayjhaa16 wrote: > > > VJha vinayjhaa16 > Re: Vedic Astrology.... Yes ! > > Friday, December 18, 2009, 11:58 AM > > >  > > > > Shri Vattem Krishnan Ji, > > <<< It is ofcourse a matter of debate seprately to be dealt about > kaliyuga and then make any judgemenet as you mentioned //large majority > of people in Kaliyuga do > not deserve it// Yet we need to think ourselves whether we are in that > position to make or not? >>> > > Marxism and Darwinism have made Evolutionism so popular that modern man > fails to think that Evolutionism is nothing but a projection of > collective Egotism of modern Age. A well educated modern man cannot > imagine that Satayuga was better than Kaliyuga. It is due to the > educational system. Modern man stresses Intelligence Quotient. Moral > Quotient carries no weight. For such persons, Satayuga cannot be a > higher stage. > > I agree with all other ideas expressed by you, but here I must differ : > my opinion about decadence of Kaliyuga is not my personal opinion, it is > the opinion of that Stage in human history which created Vedic Astrology > and all related disciplines. Human evolution can be measured by means of > advances in materialistic (positivistic) sciences and material progress > on the one hand, and by means of adherence to Truth / Sat on the other. > Sat is not fact. What is fact today will vanish tomorrow. But Sat can > never be destroyed. Sat is that thing which has permanent Sattaa, beyond > Time and Space, beyond Creatioln and Pralaya. Sat is Pure Consciousness > or Brahman.c. All > ancient evidences suggest that these rules Jyotisha did not evolve > gradually out of empirical observation and logical analyses. These rules > came out of the blue at once. For instance, the 'subject' of Saptam > Bhaava was well defined from earliest time, and did not evolve through > hit and trial. Kaliyuga only created confusion in Vedic sciences. It is > not my dogmatic stance. I was a student of physical science and came to > such conclusions about ancient wisdom through a long journey of self > discovery. Vedic Jyotisha is indeed the eye of Veda, as it gave me eyes > to see my real self, the real Sat in me which resides in all other > beings too. Vedic Jyotisha saved me from ignorance and perdition. It > saved me from Kali. > > -VJ > ============ ==== === > , Vattem Krishnan bursar_99@ ...> > wrote: > > > > Dear Shri Jha Ji, > > In case th thread is meant to obtain a opinion poll,our assertions/ > views become out of place in that context.In any case it is not as it is > an directed to believers and non believers to know some thing more about > vedic astrology > > In the context of getting involved in the JR and else where we > venture 2 deal with the intention to be as honest and as sincere as > human being can. > > It is ofcourse a matter of debate seprately to be dealt about kaliyuga > and then make any judgemenet as you mentioned //largemajority of > people in Kaliyuga do not deserve it// > > Yet we need to think ourselves whether we are in that position to make > or not? > > 2.It is heartening to hear about the capbilities of this great > reverred science in this modern age where people are more for materail > approaches have also ways to believe firmly that there are ways and > means one can attempt to make:.  //100% correct method is > already present in Jyotisha// and understand first.That way nothing is > is impossible if only we strive to know and work in the direction. > > My only reservation is about " also " added in your conviction// Gita also > extols the virtues of Tapa........ ...... This is real Middle Path. > > There is always a middle path that gives time and space to analyses > and assess strength of weakness of any thing. > > Lord Buddha considered as avatar and professing about 'middle patha " is > no different than already cited in the Gita,the sacred book for one and > all. > > Finally the concern about the present understanding in the " college > drop outs " and others who are not willing to take responsibility for > their body and mind,the computer has become easy to shoot any thing to > the Internet media and also question their veracity after receiving the > suggestions and advices. > > I am really worried and would not also like to be considered that > these opinions/advices culled out from Vedic Jyotish considered as > " spam " . > > Your message therefore encourages those who are interested to learn > vedic jyotish and work sincerely to guide men and matters to the extent > possible. > > > > > >  > > Vattem Krishnan > > Cyber Jyotish Services > > (For all counseling services) > > Dr.B.V.Raman " Fools Obey Planets While  Wisemen Can Control > Them " > > Planets are neutral Controllers of Mans Karma > >  > > > > --- On Thu, 12/17/09, VJha vinayjhaa16@ ... wrote: > > > > > > VJha vinayjhaa16@ ... > > Re: Vedic Astrology... .Yes or No > > > > Thursday, December 17, 2009, 6:36 AM > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > The Middle Path of Buddha is misinterpreted by those who hate the > Vedic > > path consisting of Tapasya, Brahmacharya, Indriyanigraha, etc, which > > was followed by The Buddha himself. The Buddha was himself a great > > Tapasvi. But The Buddha had said that his true preaching will be lost > > after five centuries. During post Christian centries, most of the > > Bhikshus in caves built with royal money entertained themselves with > > paintings and sculptures of semi-naked women. This was not the > original > > Middle Path. > > > > Gita also extols the virtues of Tapa but forbids undue mortification > of > > body. This is real Middle Path. Middle path is not half sin and half > > virtue, or half glass of wine in half glass of milk, or making > paintings > > of women half naked and half clad. > > > > No mortal can consistently make 100% correct predictions, even if all > > mathematical tables and charts are correctl;y drawn either manually or > > by means of computer. It is because of the amount and complexity of > > secondary data. But 100% correct method is already present in > Jyotisha. > > This method, however, cannot become universally popular because a > large > > majority of people in Kaliyuga do not deserve it. My personal > experience > > is that I fail to make correct predictions for those who are great > > sinners, God helps me in making good predictions only when the Jaataka > > is pious enough. > > > > -VJ > > ============ ===== ==== > > , Vattem Krishnan bursar_99@ > ...> > > wrote: > > > > > > Dear Friend, > > > SUch message are not very uncommon as mentioned by Shri Sursh > > Ji.What however is to cite at the end of the message of > Lord > >  Buddhaa's preaching and it's relevance. > > > Even If I concur with whole or part of your endeavour how in the > topic > > you thought fit to suggest: "  As Lord Buddha had always advised a > > person must take the middle path. " > > > There are many seers and sages b4 and after Buddha suggested to > avoid > > extreemities( too much faith and no faith,reliable, not relaible etc) > > > Many would like to say YES for vedic astrology in what ever it can > > help and guide for many reasons. > > > peopl say no dut to misguidance and ignorance. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Vattem Krishnan > > > Cyber Jyotish Services > > > (For all counseling services) > > > Dr.B.V.Raman " Fools Obey Planets While  Wisemen Can > Control > > Them " > > > Planets are neutral Controllers of Mans Karma > > >  > > > > > > --- On Thu, 12/17/09, Suresh Babu.A.G sureshbabuag@ ... wrote: > > > > > > > > > Suresh Babu.A.G sureshbabuag@ ... > > > Re: Vedic Astrology... .Yes or No > > > > > > Thursday, December 17, 2009, 2:17 AM > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear xtecc1109, > > > > > > A very good article and repeated several times over, and sounding > like > > the predictions of weather departments - may or may not rain - so you > > may carry an umbrella or not choose to, it is upto you. > > > > > > Such messages are a common " thing " on the internet and do not > require > > much intelligence to copy & paste and may be prune a little. We also > do > > find a lot of people around us who hold such views. > > > > > > It is perhaps the english usage of the word " Astrology " that > > confuses you. If you understand the real essence of the original term > > " jyotisha " which is " Jyoti " + " ksha " meaning - a light for the eyes to > > see in the dark, a small beckon, that will help you in times of > > darkness,  it will not be that confusing. However, to > understand > > the implication of the what essence means, one may have to go through > > such dark times once or twice in their life time, to know how > dreadfull > > it is. It is only a starved person can tell what hunger > is. But > > a person with a little knowledge of any language can write large > > scripts, without touching base, pushing others far deeper into > > comfusions. > > > > > > Before commenting to the above, sit back and think deeper, how > far > > it is going to help others who are groping in the darkness and > > perplexed without knowing what to do.     > > > > > > Thank you for such En lightning message  > > > Perhaps you can stop the confusion by throwing some of that light on > > your real name and what you are - to be honest > > > A.G.Suresh Babu Shenoy > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > xtec1109 xtec1109 > > > > > > > Thu, December 17, 2009 12:00:25 PM > > > Vedic Astrology... .Yes or No > > > > > >  > > > > > > This article doesn't meant to hurt anybody here.Just hope everbody > > will get clearer picture about astrology.Many view astrology > negatively. > > > > > > If you ask me whether there is an effect from that red colour light > on > > a person's life my answer is both " yes " and " no " . No, because it is > just > > a light. Yes, because it indicates a bad period to cross. But if you > > attribute a godly character to the traffic light pole and starts > > worshipping it or think that there is a mystery in it. Then it is the > > lack of true knowledge and understanding. That is why, about 2500 > years > > ago Lord Buddha said " Kim Karrisatthi Taraka ? " What stars can do ? It > > is not stars doing any thing to you. It is your own actions and the > > reactions of past actions (Karmas) are shaping your destiny. Your true > > savior is none but yourself as it is your duty to steer your life on > the > > correct path. > > > > > > Possible or impossible ?(limits of human understanding ) > > > > > > Please note that, though the debate on the existence of all powerful > > almighty one creator being as such is out of the context of this > subject > > of discussion, I do not exclude the possibility of that there could be > > (Now we call them as ET's and those days Deities or Angels) highly > > evolved powerful entities (and also some lowly evolved but powerful > > entities ) in other dimensions or worlds. A true scientist will never > > ridicule any possibility. However it may look impossible. Remember, > that > > a few decades back prominent scientists of the time said, it is > > impossible for an aero plane to take off the ground as it is heavier > > than the air. Compared with the vastness and the complexity of the > > universe, what we have discovered and rationally understood is similar > > to a grain of sand. If you find something mysterious or something > which > > is hard to explain, that does not mean it is not happening or it is > > impossible to happen. But that means our current understanding, > > > senses, knowledge and the instruments are not yet developed enough > to > > detect, measure and understand the phenomenon. > > > > > > As same as in Meteorology, in Astrology also, there is no definite > > saying. Because many things can not be told hundred present > accurately. > > As I said in the previous example, even when the green light is > shining > > you can not give a hundred present guarantee of safe passage as > > accidents may occur due to various other reasons. Life is a very > complex > > thing many influencing factors are taking part during the course of a > > persons life It is dynamic, constantly changing just like clouds and > > weather patterns. > > > > > > Only a divine entity or God can predict for 100% accuracy about the > > course of a life of a person. No being born as a human (except a > Buddha > > - The meaning of word Buddha itself is the highest of higher human > > intellect) can predict with 100% surety about course of a life of a > > person. > > > > > > Because a persons life is governed by Karma and so complex the > karmas > > are it is difficult to fully comprehend by a person with ordinary > > intellect. > > > > > > With respect, I must mention that, even Maha Irshies were not able > to > > do it fully. That is why the ancient texts written by different > Irshies, > > though not always but sometimes suggest different methods or > > interpretations in regard to the same thing. For an example in regard > to > > Planetary periods or Dashas, there are a number of methods suggested, > > Ashthoothari, Vimshotharri, Yogini etc.. > > > > > > Thanks to the works of Irshis and Sages and all the other scholars > of > > the of the past, about 75 - 80 % degree of accuracy of predictions can > > be achieved by a good astrologer at present, if more than that, the > rest > > is pure chance. (If anybody says he can do better than that and can > > always give 100% correct predictions, then he is not an astrologer but > a > > new Buddha. Apart from the Gauthama the Buddha for this " Kalpha " or > the > > epoch, an another additional Buddha had seems to be some how appeared > on > > earth). > > > > > > No good astrologer who is honest and who knows the subject of > > astrology well and has a reputation to protect will never mislead > people > > who do not know astrology and dare to say that he or she can give > > perfect 100% accurate predictions. > > > > > > It is as same as that, even for a vehicle which is just out of the > > production line, a good master engineer will never give a 100% > > guarantee, say to cross a desert alone and without taking any spare > > parts. Because he knows very well what many things can go wrong and > how > > many brand new vehicles had been recalled due to various defects. But > at > > the same time a foolish driver who may even do not know how to change > a > > plug, due to his foolishness may take the risk of crossing the desert > or > > even declare the exact time he will arrive at the destination. > > > > > > Since the Astrology is the only tool an ordinary human being has, to > > interpret the Quality and the quantity of Karmas an individual posses, > > Astrology should be treated with respect. Even though it's accuracy is > > not always 100%. But nobody should center his life on Astrology alone. > > Nor reject astrology totally. As Lord Buddha had always advised a > person > > must take the middle path. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.