Guest guest Posted September 19, 2005 Report Share Posted September 19, 2005 Om Gurave Namah Dear Partha, > For me Moolaktrikona is a place, where the planet > does his duty. He > is duty bound there. Ketu's dharma is moksha, > Jupiter's dharma is > protection and blessings, Mother's dharma is feeding > etc. In short, Moolatrikona is the planet's karma bhoomi. In Gunatraya Vibhaga yoga, Sri Krishna, describes rajo gunis as " karmasangena dehinaam " . Can you ask for a better endorsement for rajo guna of moolatrikona? Regards, Lakshmi > > best wishes > partha > > > > sohamsa , lakshmi ramesh > <b_lakshmi_ramesh> wrote: > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > Namaste Sourav ji & the list, > > > > You have thrown up a very interesting thought and > I > > also eagerly waited for the explanation from the > > gurus. Since it did not come (Guruji must be very > > busy), I thought I'll try my hand. Hopefully, > this > > mail will elicit his response, because no Guru can > > bear to see his / her student getting all the > wrong > > ideas!! :--)) > > > > In the following few lines, I will try to put > forward > > my interpretation of Moolatrikona. This > explanation > > could be fraught with many errors, so I request > the > > learned members to correct me. > > > > In my Mumbai conference paper, I likened the > sattwik > > state of a planet to its exaltation and tamasic > state > > to debilitation. Extending this logic, > Moolatrikona / > > own house would then correspond to rajasic state. > > > > It is known that the creation began when the > Nirguna > > Parabrahma desired to proliferate / multiply > > Himself…so the first guna that manifested is > rajas, > > hence Brahma is also stated to be rajasik. > > Astrologically too, if we look at the planets > closest > > to Sun (representative of both SELF and self), > they > > are mercury and Venus, both related to rajasa guna > and > > to desire. > > > > Out of this rajasa sprung sattwa and tamas. It is > the > > interaction of panchabhutas with these trigunas, > which > > is responsible for the creation. In this regard, I > > refer to my earlier post about the three nakshatra > > mandalas (Airavata, Jaaradgava and Vaiswanara) > too. > > > > Pictorially, it would look like this… > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Because Rajasa guna is the root of all trigunas, > > tripuras…infact all that is " tri " in this > universe, it > > is called moola trikona. > > I am sure some learned member will help with > marana > > karaka sthana explanation, before I come out with > my > > edition!! > > > > I look forward to your corrections. > > > > Regards, > > Lakshmi > > > > P.S: I am attaching this file too, in case the > wobbly > > picture painstakingly drawn by me doesn't get > pasted > > in the message. > > > > || Hare Rama Krishna || > > > > Dear Jyotisa-mandali, > > > > Pranam/Namaskar. I am > trying to > > re-learn my > > basics and I am not understanding some of the > > terminology well. > > > > What is the real meaning of " moolatrikona " > > (moola=root/prime and > > trikona=trines)? > > > > Also what is the definition of Maranakarakasthana. > I > > see that for a > > planet (like Sa, Mo, Ve, Ra) its debilitation > house in > > the natural > > zodiac is the maranakarakasthana. For example, Mo > is > > debilitated in > > the 8th sign of Scorpio and hence 8H in a chart > its > > Mo's > > maranakarakasthana. But this rule doesn't apply > for > > Su, Ju and Ma. I > > am not able to figure out why. > > > > I would appreciate if you can help me. > > > > Best Regards, > > > > Sourav > > > > > > > > > > Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2005 Report Share Posted September 19, 2005 || Hare Rama Krishna || Dear Lakshmi-ji, Namaskar. Additionally, I was never taught that there are 'moolatrikona' nakshatras. The whole sign is 'moolatrikona'. But in case of exaltation and debilitation, exact degrees are given. why ? Best regards, Sourav ================================================================= sohamsa , lakshmi ramesh <b_lakshmi_ramesh> wrote: > Om gurave Namah > > Dear Sourav, > > The phrase " root-trine " can pertain to the tri-gunas > themselves, because there is no other classification > more basic than that! And, of the three, rajo guna is > the real root.. > > It's just a coincidence that Vaiswanara nakshatra > mandala (rajo guna)starts with Moola nakshatra! Moola > nakshatra is the moolatrikona of Jupiter, who > represents Akasa tattwa..the first element to > manifest. > > I'll send the doc file to your personal mail address. > > Regards, > Lakshmi > > --- Sourav Chowdhury <souravc108> wrote: > > > || Hare Rama Krishna || > > > > Dear Partha-ji and Lakshmi-ji, > > Namaskar. I am looking > > for a more > > etymological and fundamental definition of > > Moolatrikona. The Moola > > and trikona - two words are perhaps pointing towards > > something which > > I am not quite able to lay my finger on. > > > > Lakshmi-ji, your hint on relating the moolatrikona > > with rajaguna is > > interesting. (Kindly send me the picture by e-mail > > to > > souravc108 as I am unable to see it). > > However, I would > > like to know more. > > > > Thank you for helping me to understand these > > concepts. > > > > Best regards, > > > > Sourav > > > ================================================================== > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa , " V.Partha sarathy " > > <partvinu@g...> > > wrote: > > > Dear Lakshmi Garu > > > > > > I am not going to debate about gunas(What does it > > mean anyway?) > > > > > > For me Moolaktrikona is a place, where the planet > > does his duty. > > He > > > is duty bound there. Ketu's dharma is moksha, > > Jupiter's dharma is > > > protection and blessings, Mother's dharma is > > feeding etc. > > > > > > best wishes > > > partha > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa , lakshmi ramesh > > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh> wrote: > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > Namaste Sourav ji & the list, > > > > > > > > You have thrown up a very interesting thought > > and I > > > > also eagerly waited for the explanation from the > > > > gurus. Since it did not come (Guruji must be > > very > > > > busy), I thought I'll try my hand. Hopefully, > > this > > > > mail will elicit his response, because no Guru > > can > > > > bear to see his / her student getting all the > > wrong > > > > ideas!! :--)) > > > > > > > > In the following few lines, I will try to put > > forward > > > > my interpretation of Moolatrikona. This > > explanation > > > > could be fraught with many errors, so I request > > the > > > > learned members to correct me. > > > > > > > > In my Mumbai conference paper, I likened the > > sattwik > > > > state of a planet to its exaltation and tamasic > > state > > > > to debilitation. Extending this logic, > > Moolatrikona / > > > > own house would then correspond to rajasic > > state. > > > > > > > > It is known that the creation began when the > > Nirguna > > > > Parabrahma desired to proliferate / multiply > > > > Himself…so the first guna that manifested is > > rajas, > > > > hence Brahma is also stated to be rajasik. > > > > Astrologically too, if we look at the planets > > closest > > > > to Sun (representative of both SELF and self), > > they > > > > are mercury and Venus, both related to rajasa > > guna and > > > > to desire. > > > > > > > > Out of this rajasa sprung sattwa and tamas. It > > is the > > > > interaction of panchabhutas with these trigunas, > > which > > > > is responsible for the creation. In this regard, > > I > > > > refer to my earlier post about the three > > nakshatra > > > > mandalas (Airavata, Jaaradgava and Vaiswanara) > > too. > > > > > > > > Pictorially, it would look like this… > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Because Rajasa guna is the root of all trigunas, > > > > tripuras…infact all that is " tri " in this > > universe, it > > > > is called moola trikona. > > > > I am sure some learned member will help with > > marana > > > > karaka sthana explanation, before I come out > > with my > > > > edition!! > > > > > > > > I look forward to your corrections. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > P.S: I am attaching this file too, in case the > > wobbly > > > > picture painstakingly drawn by me doesn't get > > pasted > > > > in the message. > > > > > > > > || Hare Rama Krishna || > > > > > > > > Dear Jyotisa-mandali, > > > > > > > > Pranam/Namaskar. I am > > trying to > > > > re-learn my > > > > basics and I am not understanding some of the > > > > terminology well. > > > > > > > > What is the real meaning of " moolatrikona " > > > > (moola=root/prime and > > > > trikona=trines)? > > > > > > > > Also what is the definition of > > Maranakarakasthana. I > > > > see that for a > > > > planet (like Sa, Mo, Ve, Ra) its debilitation > > house in > > > > the natural > > > > zodiac is the maranakarakasthana. For example, > > Mo is > > > > debilitated in > > > > the 8th sign of Scorpio and hence 8H in a chart > > its > > > > Mo's > > > > maranakarakasthana. But this rule doesn't apply > > for > > > > Su, Ju and Ma. I > > > > am not able to figure out why. > > > > > > > > I would appreciate if you can help me. > > > > > > > > Best Regards, > > > > > > > > Sourav > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2005 Report Share Posted September 19, 2005 Om Gurave Namah Namaste Sourav, The whole sign is definitely not moola trikona! The first 10 degrees of Dhanus are the moolatrikona of Jupiter and the rest is own house!Similarly with other planets. All this is in BPHS chapter on planetary characters and description. Regards, Lakshmi --- Sourav Chowdhury <souravc108 wrote: > || Hare Rama Krishna || > > Dear Lakshmi-ji, > Namaskar. Additionally, I was never > taught that > there are 'moolatrikona' nakshatras. The whole sign > is 'moolatrikona'. But in case of exaltation and > debilitation, exact > degrees are given. why ? > > Best regards, > > Sourav > ================================================================= > > > sohamsa , lakshmi ramesh > <b_lakshmi_ramesh> wrote: > > Om gurave Namah > > > > Dear Sourav, > > > > The phrase " root-trine " can pertain to the > tri-gunas > > themselves, because there is no other > classification > > more basic than that! And, of the three, rajo guna > is > > the real root.. > > > > It's just a coincidence that Vaiswanara nakshatra > > mandala (rajo guna)starts with Moola nakshatra! > Moola > > nakshatra is the moolatrikona of Jupiter, who > > represents Akasa tattwa..the first element to > > manifest. > > > > I'll send the doc file to your personal mail > address. > > > > Regards, > > Lakshmi > > > > --- Sourav Chowdhury <souravc108> wrote: > > > > > || Hare Rama Krishna || > > > > > > Dear Partha-ji and Lakshmi-ji, > > > Namaskar. I am > looking > > > for a more > > > etymological and fundamental definition of > > > Moolatrikona. The Moola > > > and trikona - two words are perhaps pointing > towards > > > something which > > > I am not quite able to lay my finger on. > > > > > > Lakshmi-ji, your hint on relating the > moolatrikona > > > with rajaguna is > > > interesting. (Kindly send me the picture by > e-mail > > > to > > > souravc108 as I am unable to see it). > > > However, I would > > > like to know more. > > > > > > Thank you for helping me to understand these > > > concepts. > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > Sourav > > > > > > ================================================================== > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa , " V.Partha > sarathy " > > > <partvinu@g...> > > > wrote: > > > > Dear Lakshmi Garu > > > > > > > > I am not going to debate about gunas(What does > it > > > mean anyway?) > > > > > > > > For me Moolaktrikona is a place, where the > planet > > > does his duty. > > > He > > > > is duty bound there. Ketu's dharma is moksha, > > > Jupiter's dharma is > > > > protection and blessings, Mother's dharma is > > > feeding etc. > > > > > > > > best wishes > > > > partha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa , lakshmi ramesh > > > > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh> wrote: > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Sourav ji & the list, > > > > > > > > > > You have thrown up a very interesting > thought > > > and I > > > > > also eagerly waited for the explanation from > the > > > > > gurus. Since it did not come (Guruji must be > > > very > > > > > busy), I thought I'll try my hand. > Hopefully, > > > this > > > > > mail will elicit his response, because no > Guru > > > can > > > > > bear to see his / her student getting all > the > > > wrong > > > > > ideas!! :--)) > > > > > > > > > > In the following few lines, I will try to > put > > > forward > > > > > my interpretation of Moolatrikona. This > > > explanation > > > > > could be fraught with many errors, so I > request > > > the > > > > > learned members to correct me. > > > > > > > > > > In my Mumbai conference paper, I likened the > > > sattwik > > > > > state of a planet to its exaltation and > tamasic > > > state > > > > > to debilitation. Extending this logic, > > > Moolatrikona / > > > > > own house would then correspond to rajasic > > > state. > > > > > > > > > > It is known that the creation began when the > > > Nirguna > > > > > Parabrahma desired to proliferate / multiply > > > > > > Himself…so the first guna that manifested is > > > rajas, > > > > > hence Brahma is also stated to be rajasik. > > > > > Astrologically too, if we look at the > planets > > > closest > > > > > to Sun (representative of both SELF and > self), > > > they > > > > > are mercury and Venus, both related to > rajasa > > > guna and > > > > > to desire. > > > > > > > > > > Out of this rajasa sprung sattwa and tamas. > It > > > is the > > > > > interaction of panchabhutas with these > trigunas, > > > which > > > > > is responsible for the creation. In this > regard, > > > I > > > > > refer to my earlier post about the three > > > nakshatra > > > > > mandalas (Airavata, Jaaradgava and > Vaiswanara) > > > too. > > > > > > > > > > Pictorially, it would look like this… > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Because Rajasa guna is the root of all > trigunas, > > > > > tripuras…infact all that is " tri " in this > > > universe, it > > > > > is called moola trikona. > > > > > I am sure some learned member will help with > > > marana > > > > > karaka sthana explanation, before I come out > === message truncated === Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2005 Report Share Posted September 19, 2005 Om Gurave Namah Namaste Sourav, Ever heard of Sri Chakra? Ever heard of the trikona and the Bindu? ever heard of Vaagbhava koota, Kaamaraja koota and shakti koota? If you do, then you'd realize what i've been saying is central to creation and to jyotish. regards, Lakshmi --- Sourav Chowdhury <souravc108 wrote: > || Hare Rama Krishna || > > Dear Lakshmi-ji, > Namaskar. I understand you are > doggedly trying to > relate " trikona " to " triguna " but, to me, that is > not the case. > Despite that, your idea is quite interesting. > > Best regards, > > Sourav > =================================================================== > > sohamsa , lakshmi ramesh > <b_lakshmi_ramesh> wrote: > > Om gurave Namah > > > > Dear Sourav, > > > > The phrase " root-trine " can pertain to the > tri-gunas > > themselves, because there is no other > classification > > more basic than that! And, of the three, rajo guna > is > > the real root.. > > > > It's just a coincidence that Vaiswanara nakshatra > > mandala (rajo guna)starts with Moola nakshatra! > Moola > > nakshatra is the moolatrikona of Jupiter, who > > represents Akasa tattwa..the first element to > > manifest. > > > > I'll send the doc file to your personal mail > address. > > > > Regards, > > Lakshmi > > > > --- Sourav Chowdhury <souravc108> wrote: > > > > > || Hare Rama Krishna || > > > > > > Dear Partha-ji and Lakshmi-ji, > > > Namaskar. I am > looking > > > for a more > > > etymological and fundamental definition of > > > Moolatrikona. The Moola > > > and trikona - two words are perhaps pointing > towards > > > something which > > > I am not quite able to lay my finger on. > > > > > > Lakshmi-ji, your hint on relating the > moolatrikona > > > with rajaguna is > > > interesting. (Kindly send me the picture by > e-mail > > > to > > > souravc108 as I am unable to see it). > > > However, I would > > > like to know more. > > > > > > Thank you for helping me to understand these > > > concepts. > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > Sourav > > > > > > ================================================================== > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa , " V.Partha > sarathy " > > > <partvinu@g...> > > > wrote: > > > > Dear Lakshmi Garu > > > > > > > > I am not going to debate about gunas(What does > it > > > mean anyway?) > > > > > > > > For me Moolaktrikona is a place, where the > planet > > > does his duty. > > > He > > > > is duty bound there. Ketu's dharma is moksha, > > > Jupiter's dharma is > > > > protection and blessings, Mother's dharma is > > > feeding etc. > > > > > > > > best wishes > > > > partha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa , lakshmi ramesh > > > > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh> wrote: > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Sourav ji & the list, > > > > > > > > > > You have thrown up a very interesting > thought > > > and I > > > > > also eagerly waited for the explanation from > the > > > > > gurus. Since it did not come (Guruji must be > > > very > > > > > busy), I thought I'll try my hand. > Hopefully, > > > this > > > > > mail will elicit his response, because no > Guru > > > can > > > > > bear to see his / her student getting all > the > > > wrong > > > > > ideas!! :--)) > > > > > > > > > > In the following few lines, I will try to > put > > > forward > > > > > my interpretation of Moolatrikona. This > > > explanation > > > > > could be fraught with many errors, so I > request > > > the > > > > > learned members to correct me. > > > > > > > > > > In my Mumbai conference paper, I likened the > > > sattwik > > > > > state of a planet to its exaltation and > tamasic > > > state > > > > > to debilitation. Extending this logic, > > > Moolatrikona / > > > > > own house would then correspond to rajasic > > > state. > > > > > > > > > > It is known that the creation began when the > > > Nirguna > > > > > Parabrahma desired to proliferate / multiply > > > > > > Himself…so the first guna that manifested is > > > rajas, > > > > > hence Brahma is also stated to be rajasik. > > > > > Astrologically too, if we look at the > planets > > > closest > > > > > to Sun (representative of both SELF and > self), > > > they > > > > > are mercury and Venus, both related to > rajasa > > > guna and > > > > > to desire. > > > > > > > > > > Out of this rajasa sprung sattwa and tamas. > It > > > is the > > > > > interaction of panchabhutas with these > trigunas, > > > which > > > > > is responsible for the creation. In this > regard, > > > I > > > > > refer to my earlier post about the three > > > nakshatra > > > > > mandalas (Airavata, Jaaradgava and > Vaiswanara) > > > too. > > > > > > > > > > Pictorially, it would look like this… > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Because Rajasa guna is the root of all > trigunas, > > > > > tripuras…infact all that is " tri " in this > > > universe, it > > > > > is called moola trikona. > > > > > I am sure some learned member will help with > > > marana > > > > > karaka sthana explanation, before I come out > > > with my > > > > > edition!! > === message truncated === Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2005 Report Share Posted September 19, 2005 || Om Gurave Namah || Namaste Lakshmi, Partha and All other Jyotishas, Yes, The words used by Maharishi's are to be analysed well to understand better, Here are few of my thoughts on this. Trikona (Trines ) are primarily from Sun (Kona(angular)-Arka(luminator)). Hence, Sun is the impeller for all actions. It's primarily the giver of 3 colours, 3 Gunas and 3 impeltions. As Sun as Narayana's energy is maximum in trines, Lakshmi his spouce is always found there and hence called Laxmi staana (stations), Conversely, Moon as mother redistributes energy in by quadrant actions hence Vishnu staanas are quadrants. Trines thus, creates 3 Shakti, namely, gyaana shakti (knowledge energy) iccha shakti (Desire energy) kriya shakti (action energy) And moola in Moolatrikona means, prime, root or source. Is where the prime energy of the planets is focused for creation. >I am sure some learned member will help with marana >karaka sthana explanation, before I come out with my >edition!! My thoughts on this, Clues is given by statements from Venkentasha Sharma (Sarvartha chinatamani), Tells that planets in Debilitation, Combust and Marana staana act similar. The clue is that they all act similar to reductions in Sun's energy, Hence focus should be more on Shakti on giving energy. Sun is the supplier of Energy and Moon the re-distributor, who gives the energy based on 4 needs , Chatur artha ( 4 purpose). Whole financial dealings are based on this. Kritthika Nakshatra is exaltation of Moon where moon is very happy is lots of energy. Hence moon the re-distributor is " Demand " and Sun is the Supply. Primarily Sun's decrease in supply is the main concern for all humans hence creates the financial market to redistribute the resources. Sun's debilitation is thus the trigger in reduction is supply. And Amavasya is end is beginning of redistribution of Energy. Hence, When Sun in debility in Libra and Moon is starting it's journey to exaltation Krittika and Full moon is start of Finance chart, Kartika Sukla Pratipada Chart. Thus one can understand Sun and Moon. Warm Regards Sanjay P Hare Rama Krishna On 9/19/05, lakshmi ramesh <b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: Om gurave NamahDear Sourav,The phrase " root-trine " can pertain to the tri-gunasthemselves, because there is no other classificationmore basic than that! And, of the three, rajo guna is the real root..It's just a coincidence that Vaiswanara nakshatramandala (rajo guna)starts with Moola nakshatra! Moolanakshatra is the moolatrikona of Jupiter, whorepresents Akasa tattwa..the first element to manifest.I'll send the doc file to your personal mail address.Regards,Lakshmi--- Sourav Chowdhury <souravc108 wrote:> || Hare Rama Krishna || >> Dear Partha-ji and Lakshmi-ji,> Namaskar. I am looking> for a more> etymological and fundamental definition of> Moolatrikona. The Moola> and trikona - two words are perhaps pointing towards> something which> I am not quite able to lay my finger on. >> Lakshmi-ji, your hint on relating the moolatrikona> with rajaguna is> interesting. (Kindly send me the picture by e-mail> to> souravc108 as I am unable to see it).> However, I would> like to know more.>> Thank you for helping me to understand these> concepts.>> Best regards,>> Sourav> ==================================================================>>>>> sohamsa , " V.Partha sarathy " > < partvinu@g...>> wrote:> > Dear Lakshmi Garu> >> > I am not going to debate about gunas(What does it> mean anyway?)> >> > For me Moolaktrikona is a place, where the planet > does his duty.> He> > is duty bound there. Ketu's dharma is moksha,> Jupiter's dharma is> > protection and blessings, Mother's dharma is> feeding etc.> >> > best wishes > > partha> >> >> >> > sohamsa , lakshmi ramesh> > <b_lakshmi_ramesh> wrote:> > > Om Gurave Namah > > >> > > Namaste Sourav ji & the list,> > >> > > You have thrown up a very interesting thought> and I> > > also eagerly waited for the explanation from the > > > gurus. Since it did not come (Guruji must be> very> > > busy), I thought I'll try my hand. Hopefully,> this> > > mail will elicit his response, because no Guru > can> > > bear to see his / her student getting all the> wrong> > > ideas!! :--))> > >> > > In the following few lines, I will try to put> forward> > > my interpretation of Moolatrikona. This > explanation> > > could be fraught with many errors, so I request> the> > > learned members to correct me.> > >> > > In my Mumbai conference paper, I likened the > sattwik> > > state of a planet to its exaltation and tamasic> state> > > to debilitation. Extending this logic,> Moolatrikona /> > > own house would then correspond to rajasic > state.> > >> > > It is known that the creation began when the> Nirguna> > > Parabrahma desired to proliferate / multiply> > > Himself…so the first guna that manifested is > rajas,> > > hence Brahma is also stated to be rajasik.> > > Astrologically too, if we look at the planets> closest> > > to Sun (representative of both SELF and self), > they> > > are mercury and Venus, both related to rajasa> guna and> > > to desire.> > >> > > Out of this rajasa sprung sattwa and tamas. It> is the > > > interaction of panchabhutas with these trigunas,> which> > > is responsible for the creation. In this regard,> I> > > refer to my earlier post about the three > nakshatra> > > mandalas (Airavata, Jaaradgava and Vaiswanara)> too.> > >> > > Pictorially, it would look like this…> > >> > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > Because Rajasa guna is the root of all trigunas,> > > tripuras…infact all that is " tri " in this > universe, it> > > is called moola trikona.> > > I am sure some learned member will help with> marana> > > karaka sthana explanation, before I come out> with my > > > edition!!> > >> > > I look forward to your corrections.> > >> > > Regards,> > > Lakshmi> > >> > > P.S: I am attaching this file too, in case the > wobbly> > > picture painstakingly drawn by me doesn't get> pasted> > > in the message.> > >> > > || Hare Rama Krishna ||> > >> > > Dear Jyotisa-mandali, > > >> > > Pranam/Namaskar. I am> trying to> > > re-learn my> > > basics and I am not understanding some of the> > > terminology well.> > >> > > What is the real meaning of " moolatrikona " > > > (moola=root/prime and> > > trikona=trines)?> > >> > > Also what is the definition of> Maranakarakasthana. I> > > see that for a> > > planet (like Sa, Mo, Ve, Ra) its debilitation > house in> > > the natural> > > zodiac is the maranakarakasthana. For example,> Mo is> > > debilitated in> > > the 8th sign of Scorpio and hence 8H in a chart > its> > > Mo's> > > maranakarakasthana. But this rule doesn't apply> for> > > Su, Ju and Ma. I> > > am not able to figure out why.> > >> > > I would appreciate if you can help me. > > >> > > Best Regards,> > >> > > Sourav> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 > > > >>>Do You ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2005 Report Share Posted September 19, 2005 || Hare Rama Krishna || Dear Lakshmi-ji, Namaskar. Thank you for showing your erudition. However, I am trying to learn something fundamental about moolatrikona instead of trying to make arguments of what is central to jyotisha and creation. We all have to learn, and imbibe, throughout our lives what is fundamental to creation. SanjayP-ji's e-mail was more enlightening. Now I have more knowledge on what trines are. Best regards, Sourav ==================================================================== sohamsa , lakshmi ramesh <b_lakshmi_ramesh> wrote: > Om Gurave Namah > > Namaste Sourav, > > Ever heard of Sri Chakra? Ever heard of the trikona > and the Bindu? ever heard of Vaagbhava koota, > Kaamaraja koota and shakti koota? If you do, then > you'd realize what i've been saying is central to > creation and to jyotish. > > regards, > Lakshmi > > > > --- Sourav Chowdhury <souravc108> wrote: > > > || Hare Rama Krishna || > > > > Dear Lakshmi-ji, > > Namaskar. I understand you are > > doggedly trying to > > relate " trikona " to " triguna " but, to me, that is > > not the case. > > Despite that, your idea is quite interesting. > > > > Best regards, > > > > Sourav > > > =================================================================== > > > > sohamsa , lakshmi ramesh > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh> wrote: > > > Om gurave Namah > > > > > > Dear Sourav, > > > > > > The phrase " root-trine " can pertain to the > > tri-gunas > > > themselves, because there is no other > > classification > > > more basic than that! And, of the three, rajo guna > > is > > > the real root.. > > > > > > It's just a coincidence that Vaiswanara nakshatra > > > mandala (rajo guna)starts with Moola nakshatra! > > Moola > > > nakshatra is the moolatrikona of Jupiter, who > > > represents Akasa tattwa..the first element to > > > manifest. > > > > > > I'll send the doc file to your personal mail > > address. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > --- Sourav Chowdhury <souravc108> wrote: > > > > > > > || Hare Rama Krishna || > > > > > > > > Dear Partha-ji and Lakshmi-ji, > > > > Namaskar. I am > > looking > > > > for a more > > > > etymological and fundamental definition of > > > > Moolatrikona. The Moola > > > > and trikona - two words are perhaps pointing > > towards > > > > something which > > > > I am not quite able to lay my finger on. > > > > > > > > Lakshmi-ji, your hint on relating the > > moolatrikona > > > > with rajaguna is > > > > interesting. (Kindly send me the picture by > > e-mail > > > > to > > > > souravc108 as I am unable to see it). > > > > However, I would > > > > like to know more. > > > > > > > > Thank you for helping me to understand these > > > > concepts. > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > Sourav > > > > > > > > > > ================================================================== > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa , " V.Partha > > sarathy " > > > > <partvinu@g...> > > > > wrote: > > > > > Dear Lakshmi Garu > > > > > > > > > > I am not going to debate about gunas(What does > > it > > > > mean anyway?) > > > > > > > > > > For me Moolaktrikona is a place, where the > > planet > > > > does his duty. > > > > He > > > > > is duty bound there. Ketu's dharma is moksha, > > > > Jupiter's dharma is > > > > > protection and blessings, Mother's dharma is > > > > feeding etc. > > > > > > > > > > best wishes > > > > > partha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa , lakshmi ramesh > > > > > > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh> wrote: > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Sourav ji & the list, > > > > > > > > > > > > You have thrown up a very interesting > > thought > > > > and I > > > > > > also eagerly waited for the explanation from > > the > > > > > > gurus. Since it did not come (Guruji must be > > > > very > > > > > > busy), I thought I'll try my hand. > > Hopefully, > > > > this > > > > > > mail will elicit his response, because no > > Guru > > > > can > > > > > > bear to see his / her student getting all > > the > > > > wrong > > > > > > ideas!! :--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > In the following few lines, I will try to > > put > > > > forward > > > > > > my interpretation of Moolatrikona. This > > > > explanation > > > > > > could be fraught with many errors, so I > > request > > > > the > > > > > > learned members to correct me. > > > > > > > > > > > > In my Mumbai conference paper, I likened the > > > > sattwik > > > > > > state of a planet to its exaltation and > > tamasic > > > > state > > > > > > to debilitation. Extending this logic, > > > > Moolatrikona / > > > > > > own house would then correspond to rajasic > > > > state. > > > > > > > > > > > > It is known that the creation began when the > > > > Nirguna > > > > > > Parabrahma desired to proliferate / multiply > > > > > > > > Himself…so the first guna that manifested is > > > > rajas, > > > > > > hence Brahma is also stated to be rajasik. > > > > > > Astrologically too, if we look at the > > planets > > > > closest > > > > > > to Sun (representative of both SELF and > > self), > > > > they > > > > > > are mercury and Venus, both related to > > rajasa > > > > guna and > > > > > > to desire. > > > > > > > > > > > > Out of this rajasa sprung sattwa and tamas. > > It > > > > is the > > > > > > interaction of panchabhutas with these > > trigunas, > > > > which > > > > > > is responsible for the creation. In this > > regard, > > > > I > > > > > > refer to my earlier post about the three > > > > nakshatra > > > > > > mandalas (Airavata, Jaaradgava and > > Vaiswanara) > > > > too. > > > > > > > > > > > > Pictorially, it would look like this… > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Because Rajasa guna is the root of all > > trigunas, > > > > > > tripuras…infact all that is " tri " in this > > > > universe, it > > > > > > is called moola trikona. > > > > > > I am sure some learned member will help with > > > > marana > > > > > > karaka sthana explanation, before I come out > > > > with my > > > > > > edition!! > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2005 Report Share Posted September 19, 2005 Om Gurave Namah Namaste Sourav, Of course, Sanjay P.'s one of my favourite writers on the list.I prefer to think of him as Prabhakara, even though that happens to be his father's name! His mails are always very enlightening, surprisingly humble, gentle, open minded and balanced. We need to learn quite a few things from him. Regards, Lakshmi P.S: I do have a fair idea why deep exaltation / debilitation are points while moola trikona is not. But since my erudition is already acknowledged (thank you!) I see little point in expending my energies further:--)) --- Sourav Chowdhury <souravc108 wrote: > || Hare Rama Krishna || > > Dear Lakshmi-ji, > Namaskar. Thank you for showing > your erudition. > However, I am trying to learn something fundamental > about > moolatrikona instead of trying to make arguments of > what is central > to jyotisha and creation. We all have to learn, and > imbibe, > throughout our lives what is fundamental to > creation. > > SanjayP-ji's e-mail was more enlightening. Now I > have more knowledge > on what trines are. > > Best regards, > > Sourav > ==================================================================== > > > > > sohamsa , lakshmi ramesh > <b_lakshmi_ramesh> wrote: > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > Namaste Sourav, > > > > Ever heard of Sri Chakra? Ever heard of the > trikona > > and the Bindu? ever heard of Vaagbhava koota, > > Kaamaraja koota and shakti koota? If you do, then > > you'd realize what i've been saying is central to > > creation and to jyotish. > > > > regards, > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > --- Sourav Chowdhury <souravc108> wrote: > > > > > || Hare Rama Krishna || > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi-ji, > > > Namaskar. I understand you are > > > doggedly trying to > > > relate " trikona " to " triguna " but, to me, that > is > > > not the case. > > > Despite that, your idea is quite interesting. > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > Sourav > > > > > > =================================================================== > > > > > > sohamsa , lakshmi ramesh > > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh> wrote: > > > > Om gurave Namah > > > > > > > > Dear Sourav, > > > > > > > > The phrase " root-trine " can pertain to the > > > tri-gunas > > > > themselves, because there is no other > > > classification > > > > more basic than that! And, of the three, rajo > guna > > > is > > > > the real root.. > > > > > > > > It's just a coincidence that Vaiswanara > nakshatra > > > > mandala (rajo guna)starts with Moola > nakshatra! > > > Moola > > > > nakshatra is the moolatrikona of Jupiter, who > > > > represents Akasa tattwa..the first element to > > > > manifest. > > > > > > > > I'll send the doc file to your personal mail > > > address. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > --- Sourav Chowdhury <souravc108> wrote: > > > > > > > > > || Hare Rama Krishna || > > > > > > > > > > Dear Partha-ji and Lakshmi-ji, > > > > > Namaskar. I am > > > looking > > > > > for a more > > > > > etymological and fundamental definition of > > > > > Moolatrikona. The Moola > > > > > and trikona - two words are perhaps pointing > > > towards > > > > > something which > > > > > I am not quite able to lay my finger on. > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi-ji, your hint on relating the > > > moolatrikona > > > > > with rajaguna is > > > > > interesting. (Kindly send me the picture by > > > e-mail > > > > > to > > > > > souravc108 as I am unable to see it). > > > > > However, I would > > > > > like to know more. > > > > > > > > > > Thank you for helping me to understand these > > > > > concepts. > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > > > Sourav > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ================================================================== > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa , " V.Partha > > > sarathy " > > > > > <partvinu@g...> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi Garu > > > > > > > > > > > > I am not going to debate about gunas(What > does > > > it > > > > > mean anyway?) > > > > > > > > > > > > For me Moolaktrikona is a place, where the > > > planet > > > > > does his duty. > > > > > He > > > > > > is duty bound there. Ketu's dharma is > moksha, > > > > > Jupiter's dharma is > > > > > > protection and blessings, Mother's dharma > is > > > > > feeding etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > best wishes > > > > > > partha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa , lakshmi > ramesh > > > > > > > > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh> wrote: > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Sourav ji & the list, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You have thrown up a very interesting > > > thought > > > > > and I > > > > > > > also eagerly waited for the explanation > from > > > the > > > > > > > gurus. Since it did not come (Guruji > must be > > > > > very > > > > > > > busy), I thought I'll try my hand. > > > Hopefully, > > > > > this > > > > > > > mail will elicit his response, because > no > > > Guru > > > > > can > > > > > > > bear to see his / her student getting > all > > > the > > > > > wrong > > > > > > > ideas!! :--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the following few lines, I will try > to > > > put > > > > > forward > > > > > > > my interpretation of Moolatrikona. This > > > > > explanation > > > > > > > could be fraught with many errors, so I > > > request > > > > > the > > > > > > > learned members to correct me. > > > > > > > > === message truncated === Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2005 Report Share Posted September 19, 2005 || Hare Rama Krishna || Dear Lakshmi-ji, Namaskar. Sohamsa is a place for discussion and learning. A student has the right to accept/reject about any notion or idea put forward. What you have said in relation to triguna and trikona was interesting to me, but I don't accept it as the whole basis of why Maharshi Parasara coined this term moolatrikona. A simple piece of knowledge does not need complicated and far- reaching ideas in its support and must be explainable with simple and direct terms. Your understandings and convictions are different than mine. They cannot be equated but sometimes they do intersect; on this particular case they didn't. Thank you for sharing your little energy. Best regards, Sourav ==================================================================== > > P.S: I do have a fair idea why deep exaltation / > debilitation are points while moola trikona is not. > But since my erudition is already acknowledged (thank > you!) I see little point in expending my energies > further:--)) > > > > > > --- Sourav Chowdhury <souravc108> wrote: > > > || Hare Rama Krishna || > > > > Dear Lakshmi-ji, > > Namaskar. Thank you for showing > > your erudition. > > However, I am trying to learn something fundamental > > about > > moolatrikona instead of trying to make arguments of > > what is central > > to jyotisha and creation. We all have to learn, and > > imbibe, > > throughout our lives what is fundamental to > > creation. > > > > SanjayP-ji's e-mail was more enlightening. Now I > > have more knowledge > > on what trines are. > > > > Best regards, > > > > Sourav > > > ==================================================================== > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa , lakshmi ramesh > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh> wrote: > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > Namaste Sourav, > > > > > > Ever heard of Sri Chakra? Ever heard of the > > trikona > > > and the Bindu? ever heard of Vaagbhava koota, > > > Kaamaraja koota and shakti koota? If you do, then > > > you'd realize what i've been saying is central to > > > creation and to jyotish. > > > > > > regards, > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Sourav Chowdhury <souravc108> wrote: > > > > > > > || Hare Rama Krishna || > > > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi-ji, > > > > Namaskar. I understand you are > > > > doggedly trying to > > > > relate " trikona " to " triguna " but, to me, that > > is > > > > not the case. > > > > Despite that, your idea is quite interesting. > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > Sourav > > > > > > > > > > =================================================================== > > > > > > > > sohamsa , lakshmi ramesh > > > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh> wrote: > > > > > Om gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sourav, > > > > > > > > > > The phrase " root-trine " can pertain to the > > > > tri-gunas > > > > > themselves, because there is no other > > > > classification > > > > > more basic than that! And, of the three, rajo > > guna > > > > is > > > > > the real root.. > > > > > > > > > > It's just a coincidence that Vaiswanara > > nakshatra > > > > > mandala (rajo guna)starts with Moola > > nakshatra! > > > > Moola > > > > > nakshatra is the moolatrikona of Jupiter, who > > > > > represents Akasa tattwa..the first element to > > > > > manifest. > > > > > > > > > > I'll send the doc file to your personal mail > > > > address. > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > --- Sourav Chowdhury <souravc108> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > || Hare Rama Krishna || > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Partha-ji and Lakshmi-ji, > > > > > > Namaskar. I am > > > > looking > > > > > > for a more > > > > > > etymological and fundamental definition of > > > > > > Moolatrikona. The Moola > > > > > > and trikona - two words are perhaps pointing > > > > towards > > > > > > something which > > > > > > I am not quite able to lay my finger on. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi-ji, your hint on relating the > > > > moolatrikona > > > > > > with rajaguna is > > > > > > interesting. (Kindly send me the picture by > > > > e-mail > > > > > > to > > > > > > souravc108 as I am unable to see it). > > > > > > However, I would > > > > > > like to know more. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you for helping me to understand these > > > > > > concepts. > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > Sourav > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ================================================================== > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa , " V.Partha > > > > sarathy " > > > > > > <partvinu@g...> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi Garu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am not going to debate about gunas(What > > does > > > > it > > > > > > mean anyway?) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For me Moolaktrikona is a place, where the > > > > planet > > > > > > does his duty. > > > > > > He > > > > > > > is duty bound there. Ketu's dharma is > > moksha, > > > > > > Jupiter's dharma is > > > > > > > protection and blessings, Mother's dharma > > is > > > > > > feeding etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > best wishes > > > > > > > partha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa , lakshmi > > ramesh > > > > > > > > > > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh> wrote: > > > > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Sourav ji & the list, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You have thrown up a very interesting > > > > thought > > > > > > and I > > > > > > > > also eagerly waited for the explanation > > from > > > > the > > > > > > > > gurus. Since it did not come (Guruji > > must be > > > > > > very > > > > > > > > busy), I thought I'll try my hand. > > > > Hopefully, > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > mail will elicit his response, because > > no > > > > Guru > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > bear to see his / her student getting > > all > > > > the > > > > > > wrong > > > > > > > > ideas!! :--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the following few lines, I will try > > to > > > > put > > > > > > forward > > > > > > > > my interpretation of Moolatrikona. This > > > > > > explanation > > > > > > > > could be fraught with many errors, so I > > > > request > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > learned members to correct me. > > > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2005 Report Share Posted September 19, 2005 Om Gurave Namah Namaste Sanjay Prabhakara, Thanks for the lovely post. I hardly know anything about Karthika shukla pratipada chart. Thanks for giving the philosophy behind the concept. Can this be used for predicting the current trends in the stock market? Had this year's chart indicated the present boom in the Indian stock market? For drawing this chart, should one take the longitude/latitude of Mumbai / Delhi / or my place of residence? Can this chart be used for individuals too? Which dasa system goes with this chart? Phew...that's a lot of questions and I eagerly await your answers. Thanks in anticipation, Regards, Lakshmi > My thoughts on this, > > Clues is given by statements from Venkentasha Sharma > (Sarvartha > chinatamani), Tells that planets in Debilitation, > Combust and Marana staana > act similar. The clue is that they all act similar > to reductions in Sun's > energy, Hence focus should be more on Shakti on > giving energy. > > Sun is the supplier of Energy and Moon the > re-distributor, who gives the > energy based on 4 needs , Chatur artha ( 4 purpose). > > Whole financial dealings are based on this. > Kritthika Nakshatra is > exaltation of Moon where moon is very happy is lots > of energy. Hence moon > the re-distributor is " Demand " and Sun is the > Supply. Primarily Sun's > decrease in supply is the main concern for all > humans hence creates the > financial market to redistribute the resources. > Sun's debilitation is thus the trigger in reduction > is supply. And Amavasya > is end is beginning of redistribution of Energy. > > Hence, When Sun in debility in Libra and Moon is > starting it's journey to > exaltation Krittika and Full moon is start of > Finance chart, Kartika Sukla > Pratipada Chart. > > Thus one can understand Sun and Moon. > > Warm Regards > Sanjay P > > Hare Rama Krishna On 9/19/05, lakshmi ramesh > <b_lakshmi_ramesh wrote: > > > > Om gurave Namah > > > > Dear Sourav, > > > > The phrase " root-trine " can pertain to the > tri-gunas > > themselves, because there is no other > classification > > more basic than that! And, of the three, rajo guna > is > > the real root.. > > > > It's just a coincidence that Vaiswanara nakshatra > > mandala (rajo guna)starts with Moola nakshatra! > Moola > > nakshatra is the moolatrikona of Jupiter, who > > represents Akasa tattwa..the first element to > > manifest. > > > > I'll send the doc file to your personal mail > address. > > > > Regards, > > Lakshmi > > > > --- Sourav Chowdhury <souravc108 wrote: > > > > > || Hare Rama Krishna || > > > > > > Dear Partha-ji and Lakshmi-ji, > > > Namaskar. I am looking > > > for a more > > > etymological and fundamental definition of > > > Moolatrikona. The Moola > > > and trikona - two words are perhaps pointing > towards > > > something which > > > I am not quite able to lay my finger on. > > > > > > Lakshmi-ji, your hint on relating the > moolatrikona > > > with rajaguna is > > > interesting. (Kindly send me the picture by > e-mail > > > to > > > souravc108 as I am unable to see it). > > > However, I would > > > like to know more. > > > > > > Thank you for helping me to understand these > > > concepts. > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > Sourav > > > > > > ================================================================== > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa , " V.Partha > sarathy " > > > <partvinu@g...> > > > wrote: > > > > Dear Lakshmi Garu > > > > > > > > I am not going to debate about gunas(What does > it > > > mean anyway?) > > > > > > > > For me Moolaktrikona is a place, where the > planet > > > does his duty. > > > He > > > > is duty bound there. Ketu's dharma is moksha, > > > Jupiter's dharma is > > > > protection and blessings, Mother's dharma is > > > feeding etc. > > > > > > > > best wishes > > > > partha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa , lakshmi ramesh > > > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh> wrote: > > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Sourav ji & the list, > > > > > > > > > > You have thrown up a very interesting > thought > > > and I > > > > > also eagerly waited for the explanation from > the > > > > > gurus. Since it did not come (Guruji must be > > > very > > > > > busy), I thought I'll try my hand. > Hopefully, > > > this > > > > > mail will elicit his response, because no > Guru > > > can > > > > > bear to see his / her student getting all > the > > > wrong > > > > > ideas!! :--)) > > > > > > > > > > In the following few lines, I will try to > put > > > forward > > > > > my interpretation of Moolatrikona. This > > > explanation > > > > > could be fraught with many errors, so I > request > === message truncated === Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2005 Report Share Posted September 19, 2005 Om Gurave Namah Namaste Sourav ji, I perfectly agree with your views and pray that you do finally get the answers that you so avidly seek. Please do remember to share your learning with us. And honestly, I always thought that the concept of tri gunas is really really basic! Well, one always lives and learns:--)) Regards, Lakshmi --- Sourav Chowdhury <souravc108 wrote: > || Hare Rama Krishna || > > Dear Lakshmi-ji, > Namaskar. Sohamsa is a place for > discussion and > learning. A student has the right to accept/reject > about any notion > or idea put forward. What you have said in relation > to triguna and > trikona was interesting to me, but I don't accept it > as the whole > basis of why Maharshi Parasara coined this term > moolatrikona. > > A simple piece of knowledge does not need > complicated and far- > reaching ideas in its support and must be > explainable with simple > and direct terms. > > Your understandings and convictions are different > than mine. They > cannot be equated but sometimes they do intersect; > on this > particular case they didn't. > > Thank you for sharing your little energy. > > Best regards, > > Sourav > ==================================================================== > > > > > P.S: I do have a fair idea why deep exaltation / > > debilitation are points while moola trikona is > not. > > But since my erudition is already acknowledged > (thank > > you!) I see little point in expending my energies > > further:--)) > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Sourav Chowdhury <souravc108> wrote: > > > > > || Hare Rama Krishna || > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi-ji, > > > Namaskar. Thank you for > showing > > > your erudition. > > > However, I am trying to learn something > fundamental > > > about > > > moolatrikona instead of trying to make arguments > of > > > what is central > > > to jyotisha and creation. We all have to learn, > and > > > imbibe, > > > throughout our lives what is fundamental to > > > creation. > > > > > > SanjayP-ji's e-mail was more enlightening. Now I > > > have more knowledge > > > on what trines are. > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > Sourav > > > > > > ==================================================================== > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa , lakshmi ramesh > > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh> wrote: > > > > Om Gurave Namah > > > > > > > > Namaste Sourav, > > > > > > > > Ever heard of Sri Chakra? Ever heard of the > > > trikona > > > > and the Bindu? ever heard of Vaagbhava koota, > > > > Kaamaraja koota and shakti koota? If you do, > then > > > > you'd realize what i've been saying is central > to > > > > creation and to jyotish. > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Sourav Chowdhury <souravc108> wrote: > > > > > > > > > || Hare Rama Krishna || > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lakshmi-ji, > > > > > Namaskar. I understand you > are > > > > > doggedly trying to > > > > > relate " trikona " to " triguna " but, to me, > that > > > is > > > > > not the case. > > > > > Despite that, your idea is quite > interesting. > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > > > Sourav > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > =================================================================== > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa , lakshmi > ramesh > > > > > <b_lakshmi_ramesh> wrote: > > > > > > Om gurave Namah > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sourav, > > > > > > > > > > > > The phrase " root-trine " can pertain to the > > > > > tri-gunas > > > > > > themselves, because there is no other > > > > > classification > > > > > > more basic than that! And, of the three, > rajo > > > guna > > > > > is > > > > > > the real root.. > > > > > > > > > > > > It's just a coincidence that Vaiswanara > > > nakshatra > > > > > > mandala (rajo guna)starts with Moola > > > nakshatra! > > > > > Moola > > > > > > nakshatra is the moolatrikona of Jupiter, > who > > > > > > represents Akasa tattwa..the first element > to > > > > > > manifest. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'll send the doc file to your personal > mail > > > > > address. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Sourav Chowdhury <souravc108> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > || Hare Rama Krishna || > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Partha-ji and Lakshmi-ji, > > > > > > > Namaskar. > I am > > > > > looking > > > > > > > for a more > > > > > > > etymological and fundamental definition > of > > > > > > > Moolatrikona. The Moola > > > > > > > and trikona - two words are perhaps > pointing > > > > > towards > > > > > > > something which > > > > > > > I am not quite able to lay my finger on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lakshmi-ji, your hint on relating the > > > > > moolatrikona > > > > > > > with rajaguna is > > > > > > > interesting. (Kindly send me the picture > by > > > > > e-mail > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > souravc108 as I am unable to see > it). > > > > > > > However, I would > > > > > > > like to know more. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you for helping me to understand > these > > > > > > > concepts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sourav > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 2005 Report Share Posted September 20, 2005 Om Hrim Gam Hrim Mahaganapataye Namah Svaha, Dear Sourav, The word Mool, means " root " , Tri KOna should be " THird Kona " or 9th house ( Pardon if my sanskrit is not good enough)or if we undestand it differently it could be the root of all kona houses. Kona houses, particularly 9th house indicates Dharma, or duty. I wouldnot agree (sorry Laksmiji) that these houses indicate Rajas Guna, which can be true only in case of Arudas, whereas I would relate it to Satva Guna/ but, let's leave this matter aside for a moment. The root of kona houses would indicate the root of Dharma, so any planet in its house would perform its dharmic duty. That is the rason why Navamsa is based on Trikona,(9th house primarily), where navamsa calculations clearly rely on trikona (varghotama amsas are 1st 5th 9th for movable, fixed and dual signs). Navamsa is further known as dharma amsa. Thus, planet in multrikona will always perform their dharma, or what we simply say duty. Hope this helps Zoran Monday, September 19, 2005, 3:33:22 PM, you wrote: > || Hare Rama Krishna || > Dear Partha-ji and Lakshmi-ji, > Namaskar. I am looking for a more > etymological and fundamental definition of Moolatrikona. The Moola > and trikona - two words are perhaps pointing towards something which > I am not quite able to lay my finger on. > Lakshmi-ji, your hint on relating the moolatrikona with rajaguna is > interesting. (Kindly send me the picture by e-mail to > souravc108 as I am unable to see it). However, I would > like to know more. > Thank you for helping me to understand these concepts. > Best regards, > Sourav > ================================================================== > sohamsa , " V.Partha sarathy " <partvinu@g...> > wrote: >> Dear Lakshmi Garu >> >> I am not going to debate about gunas(What does it mean anyway?) >> >> For me Moolaktrikona is a place, where the planet does his duty. > He >> is duty bound there. Ketu's dharma is moksha, Jupiter's dharma is >> protection and blessings, Mother's dharma is feeding etc. >> >> best wishes >> partha >> >> >> >> sohamsa , lakshmi ramesh >> <b_lakshmi_ramesh> wrote: >> > Om Gurave Namah >> > >> > Namaste Sourav ji & the list, >> > >> > You have thrown up a very interesting thought and I >> > also eagerly waited for the explanation from the >> > gurus. Since it did not come (Guruji must be very >> > busy), I thought I'll try my hand. Hopefully, this >> > mail will elicit his response, because no Guru can >> > bear to see his / her student getting all the wrong >> > ideas!! :--)) >> > >> > In the following few lines, I will try to put forward >> > my interpretation of Moolatrikona. This explanation >> > could be fraught with many errors, so I request the >> > learned members to correct me. >> > >> > In my Mumbai conference paper, I likened the sattwik >> > state of a planet to its exaltation and tamasic state >> > to debilitation. Extending this logic, Moolatrikona / >> > own house would then correspond to rajasic state. >> > >> > It is known that the creation began when the Nirguna >> > Parabrahma desired to proliferate / multiply >> > Himself…so the first guna that manifested is rajas, >> > hence Brahma is also stated to be rajasik. >> > Astrologically too, if we look at the planets closest >> > to Sun (representative of both SELF and self), they >> > are mercury and Venus, both related to rajasa guna and >> > to desire. >> > >> > Out of this rajasa sprung sattwa and tamas. It is the >> > interaction of panchabhutas with these trigunas, which >> > is responsible for the creation. In this regard, I >> > refer to my earlier post about the three nakshatra >> > mandalas (Airavata, Jaaradgava and Vaiswanara) too. >> > >> > Pictorially, it would look like this… >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Because Rajasa guna is the root of all trigunas, >> > tripuras…infact all that is " tri " in this universe, it >> > is called moola trikona. >> > I am sure some learned member will help with marana >> > karaka sthana explanation, before I come out with my >> > edition!! >> > >> > I look forward to your corrections. >> > >> > Regards, >> > Lakshmi >> > >> > P.S: I am attaching this file too, in case the wobbly >> > picture painstakingly drawn by me doesn't get pasted >> > in the message. >> > >> > || Hare Rama Krishna || >> > >> > Dear Jyotisa-mandali, >> > >> > Pranam/Namaskar. I am trying to >> > re-learn my >> > basics and I am not understanding some of the >> > terminology well. >> > >> > What is the real meaning of " moolatrikona " >> > (moola=root/prime and >> > trikona=trines)? >> > >> > Also what is the definition of Maranakarakasthana. I >> > see that for a >> > planet (like Sa, Mo, Ve, Ra) its debilitation house in >> > the natural >> > zodiac is the maranakarakasthana. For example, Mo is >> > debilitated in >> > the 8th sign of Scorpio and hence 8H in a chart its >> > Mo's >> > maranakarakasthana. But this rule doesn't apply for >> > Su, Ju and Ma. I >> > am not able to figure out why. >> > >> > I would appreciate if you can help me. >> > >> > Best Regards, >> > >> > Sourav >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 >> > > *tat savitur varenyam* > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 2005 Report Share Posted September 20, 2005 || Hare Rama Krishna || Dear Zoran-ji, Namaskar. Thank you for your e-mail. I think this strengthened my understanding. Pranam and regards, Sourav ================================================================= sohamsa , Zoran Radosavljevic <ahimsa@N...> wrote: > Om Hrim Gam Hrim Mahaganapataye Namah Svaha, > Dear Sourav, > The word Mool, means " root " , Tri KOna should be " THird Kona " or 9th > house ( Pardon if my sanskrit is not good enough)or if we undestand it > differently it could be the root of all kona houses. Kona houses, > particularly 9th house indicates Dharma, or duty. I wouldnot agree > (sorry Laksmiji) that these houses indicate Rajas Guna, which can be > true only in case of Arudas, whereas I would relate it to Satva Guna/ > but, let's leave this matter aside for a moment. The root of kona > houses would indicate the root of Dharma, so any planet in its house > would perform its dharmic duty. That is the rason why Navamsa is based > on Trikona,(9th house primarily), where navamsa calculations clearly > rely on trikona (varghotama amsas are 1st 5th 9th for movable, fixed > and dual signs). Navamsa is further known as dharma amsa. Thus, planet > in multrikona will always perform their dharma, or what we simply say > duty. Hope this helps > Zoran > > Monday, September 19, 2005, 3:33:22 PM, you wrote: > > > || Hare Rama Krishna || > > > Dear Partha-ji and Lakshmi-ji, > > Namaskar. I am looking for a more > > etymological and fundamental definition of Moolatrikona. The Moola > > and trikona - two words are perhaps pointing towards something which > > I am not quite able to lay my finger on. > > > Lakshmi-ji, your hint on relating the moolatrikona with rajaguna is > > interesting. (Kindly send me the picture by e-mail to > > souravc108 as I am unable to see it). However, I would > > like to know more. > > > Thank you for helping me to understand these concepts. > > > Best regards, > > > Sourav > > ================================================================== > > > > > > sohamsa , " V.Partha sarathy " <partvinu@g...> > > wrote: > >> Dear Lakshmi Garu > >> > >> I am not going to debate about gunas(What does it mean anyway?) > >> > >> For me Moolaktrikona is a place, where the planet does his duty. > > He > >> is duty bound there. Ketu's dharma is moksha, Jupiter's dharma is > >> protection and blessings, Mother's dharma is feeding etc. > >> > >> best wishes > >> partha > >> > >> > >> > >> sohamsa , lakshmi ramesh > >> <b_lakshmi_ramesh> wrote: > >> > Om Gurave Namah > >> > > >> > Namaste Sourav ji & the list, > >> > > >> > You have thrown up a very interesting thought and I > >> > also eagerly waited for the explanation from the > >> > gurus. Since it did not come (Guruji must be very > >> > busy), I thought I'll try my hand. Hopefully, this > >> > mail will elicit his response, because no Guru can > >> > bear to see his / her student getting all the wrong > >> > ideas!! :--)) > >> > > >> > In the following few lines, I will try to put forward > >> > my interpretation of Moolatrikona. This explanation > >> > could be fraught with many errors, so I request the > >> > learned members to correct me. > >> > > >> > In my Mumbai conference paper, I likened the sattwik > >> > state of a planet to its exaltation and tamasic state > >> > to debilitation. Extending this logic, Moolatrikona / > >> > own house would then correspond to rajasic state. > >> > > >> > It is known that the creation began when the Nirguna > >> > Parabrahma desired to proliferate / multiply > >> > Himself…so the first guna that manifested is rajas, > >> > hence Brahma is also stated to be rajasik. > >> > Astrologically too, if we look at the planets closest > >> > to Sun (representative of both SELF and self), they > >> > are mercury and Venus, both related to rajasa guna and > >> > to desire. > >> > > >> > Out of this rajasa sprung sattwa and tamas. It is the > >> > interaction of panchabhutas with these trigunas, which > >> > is responsible for the creation. In this regard, I > >> > refer to my earlier post about the three nakshatra > >> > mandalas (Airavata, Jaaradgava and Vaiswanara) too. > >> > > >> > Pictorially, it would look like this… > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Because Rajasa guna is the root of all trigunas, > >> > tripuras…infact all that is " tri " in this universe, it > >> > is called moola trikona. > >> > I am sure some learned member will help with marana > >> > karaka sthana explanation, before I come out with my > >> > edition!! > >> > > >> > I look forward to your corrections. > >> > > >> > Regards, > >> > Lakshmi > >> > > >> > P.S: I am attaching this file too, in case the wobbly > >> > picture painstakingly drawn by me doesn't get pasted > >> > in the message. > >> > > >> > || Hare Rama Krishna || > >> > > >> > Dear Jyotisa-mandali, > >> > > >> > Pranam/Namaskar. I am trying to > >> > re-learn my > >> > basics and I am not understanding some of the > >> > terminology well. > >> > > >> > What is the real meaning of " moolatrikona " > >> > (moola=root/prime and > >> > trikona=trines)? > >> > > >> > Also what is the definition of Maranakarakasthana. I > >> > see that for a > >> > planet (like Sa, Mo, Ve, Ra) its debilitation house in > >> > the natural > >> > zodiac is the maranakarakasthana. For example, Mo is > >> > debilitated in > >> > the 8th sign of Scorpio and hence 8H in a chart its > >> > Mo's > >> > maranakarakasthana. But this rule doesn't apply for > >> > Su, Ju and Ma. I > >> > am not able to figure out why. > >> > > >> > I would appreciate if you can help me. > >> > > >> > Best Regards, > >> > > >> > Sourav > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 > >> > > > > > > > > *tat savitur varenyam* > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 2005 Report Share Posted September 20, 2005 Om Gurave Namah Namaste Zoran, Please don't " ji " me, because I have learnt from you and am your sishya in astro-knowledge and experience. I am very glad that you have responded to this thread, because your interaction is definitely going to enrich our understanding. Infact, as I have stated in my first mail itself on the thread, its very purpose was to kindle interesting interactions. Now, coming to the topic on hand, I agree with you that Dhanus is a saattwik sign, (i better agree, seeing that its our common ascendant:--))) but still it is a fire sign and fire is rajo guni. Dhanus represents battle grounds, military camps etc and that's hardly saattwik, isn't it? Infact this description makes Dhanus sound more like a house of Mars, the war lord, than that of jupiter! Dhanus is a sign where jupiter is in " avarohana " , i.e., heading towards debility, while mars is in " aarohana " , heading towards exaltation. Dhanus is not a pure sattwik / passive sign like pisces, it is a kshatriya / martian sign..Parasara says so. Dhanus is a sign of attachment to " action " based on one's " dharma " . And, all action / attachment to action is rajasik in nature, according to Sri Krishna.I know that you will not think that I am showing off when I quote from scriptures...you know the scriptures and me too well to think that! The term " Vaiswanara " refers to the cosmic fire as also the digestive fire. The manipura chakra lording digestive fire is ruled by Mars. It can also be recalled that the creation of Brahma started from this point...hence this is the begining of creation. Infact, the first veedhi of Vaiswanara nakshatra mandala is called " aja " meaning " unborn " as well as " goat " (mesha?). All this is taken from Vishnupurana and I will give the link below, so if you have missed it earlier, you can go through it now. I would appreciate your comments on it very much. sohamsa/message/28 And, Lord krishna says that Aham vaiswanarobhutwa praninam dehamasritah| That's the first devolvement of God into creation. and, i hope you are able to see the diagram drawn by me, because Sourav ji had some difficulty there. Infact, what you see there is an approximation of " yoni " ...the seat of creation. Regards, Lakshmi --- Zoran Radosavljevic <ahimsa wrote: > Om Hrim Gam Hrim Mahaganapataye Namah Svaha, > Dear Sourav, > The word Mool, means " root " , Tri KOna should be " > THird Kona " or 9th > house ( Pardon if my sanskrit is not good enough)or > if we undestand it > differently it could be the root of all kona houses. > Kona houses, > particularly 9th house indicates Dharma, or duty. I > wouldnot agree > (sorry Laksmiji) that these houses indicate Rajas > Guna, which can be > true only in case of Arudas, whereas I would relate > it to Satva Guna/ > but, let's leave this matter aside for a moment. The > root of kona > houses would indicate the root of Dharma, so any > planet in its house > would perform its dharmic duty. That is the rason > why Navamsa is based > on Trikona,(9th house primarily), where navamsa > calculations clearly > rely on trikona (varghotama amsas are 1st 5th 9th > for movable, fixed > and dual signs). Navamsa is further known as dharma > amsa. Thus, planet > in multrikona will always perform their dharma, or > what we simply say > duty. Hope this helps > Zoran > > Monday, September 19, 2005, 3:33:22 PM, you wrote: > > > || Hare Rama Krishna || > > > Dear Partha-ji and Lakshmi-ji, > > Namaskar. I am > looking for a more > > etymological and fundamental definition of > Moolatrikona. The Moola > > and trikona - two words are perhaps pointing > towards something which > > I am not quite able to lay my finger on. > > > Lakshmi-ji, your hint on relating the moolatrikona > with rajaguna is > > interesting. (Kindly send me the picture by e-mail > to > > souravc108 as I am unable to see it). > However, I would > > like to know more. > > > Thank you for helping me to understand these > concepts. > > > Best regards, > > > Sourav > > > ================================================================== > > > > > > sohamsa , " V.Partha sarathy " > <partvinu@g...> > > wrote: > >> Dear Lakshmi Garu > >> > >> I am not going to debate about gunas(What does it > mean anyway?) > >> > >> For me Moolaktrikona is a place, where the planet > does his duty. > > He > >> is duty bound there. Ketu's dharma is moksha, > Jupiter's dharma is > >> protection and blessings, Mother's dharma is > feeding etc. > >> > >> best wishes > >> partha > >> > >> > >> > >> sohamsa , lakshmi ramesh > >> <b_lakshmi_ramesh> wrote: > >> > Om Gurave Namah > >> > > >> > Namaste Sourav ji & the list, > >> > > >> > You have thrown up a very interesting thought > and I > >> > also eagerly waited for the explanation from > the > >> > gurus. Since it did not come (Guruji must be > very > >> > busy), I thought I'll try my hand. Hopefully, > this > >> > mail will elicit his response, because no Guru > can > >> > bear to see his / her student getting all the > wrong > >> > ideas!! :--)) > >> > > >> > In the following few lines, I will try to put > forward > >> > my interpretation of Moolatrikona. This > explanation > >> > could be fraught with many errors, so I request > the > >> > learned members to correct me. > >> > > >> > In my Mumbai conference paper, I likened the > sattwik > >> > state of a planet to its exaltation and tamasic > state > >> > to debilitation. Extending this logic, > Moolatrikona / > >> > own house would then correspond to rajasic > state. > >> > > >> > It is known that the creation began when the > Nirguna > >> > Parabrahma desired to proliferate / multiply > >> > Himself…so the first guna that manifested is > rajas, > >> > hence Brahma is also stated to be rajasik. > >> > Astrologically too, if we look at the planets > closest > >> > to Sun (representative of both SELF and self), > they > >> > are mercury and Venus, both related to rajasa > guna and > >> > to desire. > >> > > >> > Out of this rajasa sprung sattwa and tamas. It > is the > >> > interaction of panchabhutas with these > trigunas, which > >> > is responsible for the creation. In this > regard, I > >> > refer to my earlier post about the three > nakshatra > >> > mandalas (Airavata, Jaaradgava and Vaiswanara) > too. > >> > > >> > Pictorially, it would look like this… > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Because Rajasa guna is the root of all > trigunas, > >> > tripuras…infact all that is " tri " in this > universe, it > >> > is called moola trikona. > >> > I am sure some learned member will help with > marana > >> > karaka sthana explanation, before I come out > with my > >> > edition!! > >> > > >> > I look forward to your corrections. > >> > > >> > Regards, > >> > Lakshmi > >> > > >> > P.S: I am attaching this file too, in case the > wobbly > >> > picture painstakingly drawn by me doesn't get > pasted > >> > in the message. > >> > > >> > || Hare Rama Krishna || > >> > > >> > Dear Jyotisa-mandali, > >> > > >> > Pranam/Namaskar. I am > trying to > >> > re-learn my > >> > basics and I am not understanding some of the > >> > terminology well. > >> > > >> > What is the real meaning of " moolatrikona " > >> > (moola=root/prime and > >> > trikona=trines)? > >> > > >> > Also what is the definition of > Maranakarakasthana. I > >> > see that for a > >> > planet (like Sa, Mo, Ve, Ra) its debilitation > house in > >> > the natural > >> > zodiac is the maranakarakasthana. For example, > Mo is > === message truncated === Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 2005 Report Share Posted September 20, 2005 || Om Gurave Namah || Namaste Lakshmi and other learned members, I liked Jyotisha Zoran's description of Mooltrikona as Prime-Duty location of the planet. Even, Guru Pt. SanjayRath also describes it in a similar way, Exaltation as though in Picnic (Very Happy) Moolatrikona as though in Office and Own house as though their home. Ex, Jupiter's home is Pisces, Office is Saggittirius, Cancer as " Picnic spot " . Now, coming to the topic on hand, I agree with youthat Dhanus is a saattwik sign, (i better agree, seeing that its our common ascendant:--))) but stillit is a fire sign and fire is rajo guni. Dhanusrepresents battle grounds, military camps etc andthat's hardly saattwik, isn't it? Infact thisdescription makes Dhanus sound more like a house of My points, The 5 Tatwas (Elements) are different from 3 Guna(Rajas Tamas & Satwa). The three Guna's mix in different proportions to form the 5 elements. And 5 Elements in turn mix in proportions to form 3 Doshas, (Vaata , Pitta and Kapha). A Fiery element can be Saatvic, Like Sun is Saatvic yet Fiery in nature, It can also be tamasic like Mars. The term " Vaiswanara " refers to the cosmic fire asalso the digestive fire. My addition The Veethi(Paths) are based on group Nakshatra's. The texts are alluding to something which I have not yet given enough thought about. VEETHI/PATH Ashwini, Bharani, Krittika form Naagveethi. (Naaga (Cobra's) Path) Rohini, Mrigshira and Ardra form Gajveethi. Elephants Path Punarvasu, Pushya, and Ashlesha form Airavat Veethi, Indra's Elephant (has many(7?) tusks and trunks) Path Poorvabhadrapad, Uttabhadrapad and Revati form Goveethi. Cow's Path Hasta, Vishakha and Chitra form Ajveethi. Ram's (Mountain Goat/Aries ruler) path. Jyestha, Mula and Anuradha form Mrigveethi. Deer (similar class of forest animals) Path. Poorvashadha, Uttarasha, Swati and Abhijit form Vaishwanaraveethi. Fire (Or Sun ) Path ([REF]:The Above is taken from Sri KN Rao site http://www.journalofastrology.com The same is also given in Br. Sm Varahamihira and other texts) So I think when u look at the whole class of 6 Veethi's the association the answer could be different. The symbology of the names given has to be handled after proper analysis is my current Views. These paths are very important for Mundane Transits. Hopefully Guruji will drop a clue on these Veethi (Path) Warm Regards Sanjay P Hare Rama Krishna The manipura chakra lordingdigestive fire is ruled by Mars. It can also be recalled that the creation of Brahma started from thispoint...hence this is the begining of creation.Infact, the first veedhi of Vaiswanara nakshatramandala is called " aja " meaning " unborn " as well as " goat " (mesha?). All this is taken from Vishnupuranaand I will give the link below, so if you have missedit earlier, you can go through it now. I wouldappreciate your comments on it very much. sohamsa/message/28And, Lord krishna says thatAham vaiswanarobhutwa praninam dehamasritah|That's the first devolvement of God into creation. and, i hope you are able to see the diagram drawn byme, because Sourav ji had some difficulty there.Infact, what you see there is an approximation of " yoni " ...the seat of creation.Regards, Lakshmi--- Zoran Radosavljevic <ahimsa wrote:> Om Hrim Gam Hrim Mahaganapataye Namah Svaha,> Dear Sourav,> The word Mool, means " root " , Tri KOna should be " > THird Kona " or 9th> house ( Pardon if my sanskrit is not good enough)or> if we undestand it> differently it could be the root of all kona houses.> Kona houses,> particularly 9th house indicates Dharma, or duty. I > wouldnot agree> (sorry Laksmiji) that these houses indicate Rajas> Guna, which can be> true only in case of Arudas, whereas I would relate> it to Satva Guna/> but, let's leave this matter aside for a moment. The > root of kona> houses would indicate the root of Dharma, so any> planet in its house> would perform its dharmic duty. That is the rason> why Navamsa is based> on Trikona,(9th house primarily), where navamsa > calculations clearly> rely on trikona (varghotama amsas are 1st 5th 9th> for movable, fixed> and dual signs). Navamsa is further known as dharma> amsa. Thus, planet> in multrikona will always perform their dharma, or > what we simply say> duty. Hope this helps> Zoran>> Monday, September 19, 2005, 3:33:22 PM, you wrote:>> > || Hare Rama Krishna ||>> > Dear Partha-ji and Lakshmi-ji, > > Namaskar. I am> looking for a more> > etymological and fundamental definition of> Moolatrikona. The Moola> > and trikona - two words are perhaps pointing> towards something which > > I am not quite able to lay my finger on.>> > Lakshmi-ji, your hint on relating the moolatrikona> with rajaguna is> > interesting. (Kindly send me the picture by e-mail> to > > souravc108 as I am unable to see it).> However, I would> > like to know more.>> > Thank you for helping me to understand these > concepts.>> > Best regards,>> > Sourav> >>==================================================================>>>>> > sohamsa , " V.Partha sarathy " > <partvinu@g...>> > wrote:> >> Dear Lakshmi Garu> >>> >> I am not going to debate about gunas(What does it > mean anyway?)> >>> >> For me Moolaktrikona is a place, where the planet> does his duty.> > He> >> is duty bound there. Ketu's dharma is moksha,> Jupiter's dharma is > >> protection and blessings, Mother's dharma is> feeding etc.> >>> >> best wishes> >> partha> >>> >>> >>> >> sohamsa , lakshmi ramesh> >> <b_lakshmi_ramesh> wrote:> >> > Om Gurave Namah> >> >> >> > Namaste Sourav ji & the list, > >> >> >> > You have thrown up a very interesting thought> and I> >> > also eagerly waited for the explanation from> the> >> > gurus. Since it did not come (Guruji must be > very> >> > busy), I thought I'll try my hand. Hopefully,> this> >> > mail will elicit his response, because no Guru> can> >> > bear to see his / her student getting all the > wrong> >> > ideas!! :--))> >> >> >> > In the following few lines, I will try to put> forward> >> > my interpretation of Moolatrikona. This > explanation> >> > could be fraught with many errors, so I request> the> >> > learned members to correct me.> >> >> >> > In my Mumbai conference paper, I likened the > sattwik> >> > state of a planet to its exaltation and tamasic> state> >> > to debilitation. Extending this logic,> Moolatrikona /> >> > own house would then correspond to rajasic > state.> >> >> >> > It is known that the creation began when the> Nirguna> >> > Parabrahma desired to proliferate / multiply> >> > Himself…so the first guna that manifested is > rajas,> >> > hence Brahma is also stated to be rajasik.> >> > Astrologically too, if we look at the planets> closest> >> > to Sun (representative of both SELF and self), > they> >> > are mercury and Venus, both related to rajasa> guna and> >> > to desire.> >> >> >> > Out of this rajasa sprung sattwa and tamas. It > is the> >> > interaction of panchabhutas with these> trigunas, which> >> > is responsible for the creation. In this> regard, I> >> > refer to my earlier post about the three > nakshatra> >> > mandalas (Airavata, Jaaradgava and Vaiswanara)> too.> >> >> >> > Pictorially, it would look like this…> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > Because Rajasa guna is the root of all> trigunas, > >> > tripuras…infact all that is " tri " in this> universe, it> >> > is called moola trikona.> >> > I am sure some learned member will help with> marana > >> > karaka sthana explanation, before I come out> with my> >> > edition!!> >> >> >> > I look forward to your corrections.> >> > > >> > Regards,> >> > Lakshmi> >> >> >> > P.S: I am attaching this file too, in case the> wobbly> >> > picture painstakingly drawn by me doesn't get > pasted> >> > in the message.> >> >> >> > || Hare Rama Krishna ||> >> >> >> > Dear Jyotisa-mandali,> >> >> >> > Pranam/Namaskar. I am> trying to> >> > re-learn my> >> > basics and I am not understanding some of the> >> > terminology well.> >> >> >> > What is the real meaning of " moolatrikona " > >> > (moola=root/prime and> >> > trikona=trines)?> >> >> >> > Also what is the definition of> Maranakarakasthana. I> >> > see that for a > >> > planet (like Sa, Mo, Ve, Ra) its debilitation> house in> >> > the natural> >> > zodiac is the maranakarakasthana. For example,> Mo is>=== message truncated === Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 Dear Gurus I had orginally posed the question about the moolatrikona degree moon in the 8th house in vrishaba (in MKS). I read all your explanations and let me thank you all for your clarifications and discussion. However I am still wondering what about the MKS ? I understand that moon in moolatrikona degree in vrishaba will do his dharma but I sense that somehow the significations may be affected. I am saying this because the native who has this chart has a troubled relationship with his mother (separation). For more information the native was born on 23rd October 1975 at 7.05 am in Bangalore (Latitude: 12° 58'12 " N Longitude: 77°34'48 " E ). Could you please provide some advice ? Thanks again sohamsa , Sanjay Prabhakaran <sanjaychettiar@g...> wrote: > || Om Gurave Namah || > > Namaste Lakshmi and other learned members, > > I liked Jyotisha Zoran's description of Mooltrikona as Prime-Duty location > of the planet. Even, Guru Pt. SanjayRath also describes it in a similar way, > > Exaltation as though in Picnic (Very Happy) > Moolatrikona as though in Office and > Own house as though their home. > > Ex, Jupiter's home is Pisces, Office is Saggittirius, Cancer as " Picnic > spot " . > > Now, coming to the topic on hand, I agree with you > > that Dhanus is a saattwik sign, (i better agree, > > seeing that its our common ascendant:--))) but still > > it is a fire sign and fire is rajo guni. Dhanus > > represents battle grounds, military camps etc and > > that's hardly saattwik, isn't it? Infact this > > description makes Dhanus sound more like a house of > > > > My points, The 5 Tatwas (Elements) are different from 3 Guna(Rajas Tamas & > Satwa). The three Guna's mix in different proportions to form the 5 > elements. And 5 Elements in turn mix in proportions to form 3 Doshas, (Vaata > , Pitta and Kapha). > > A Fiery element can be Saatvic, Like Sun is Saatvic yet Fiery in nature, It > can also be tamasic like Mars. > > > The term " Vaiswanara " refers to the cosmic fire as > > also the digestive fire. > > > > My addition The Veethi(Paths) are based on group Nakshatra's. The texts are > alluding to something which I have not yet given enough thought about. > > * > VEETHI/PATH* > > Ashwini, Bharani, Krittika form *Naagveethi*. (Naaga (Cobra's) Path) > > Rohini, Mrigshira and Ardra form *Gajveethi*. Elephants Path > > Punarvasu, Pushya, and Ashlesha form *Airavat Veethi, *Indra's Elephant (has > many(7?) tusks and trunks) Path* > * > > Poorvabhadrapad, Uttabhadrapad and Revati form *Goveethi*. Cow's Path > > Hasta, Vishakha and Chitra form *Ajveethi. *Ram's (Mountain Goat/Aries > ruler) path.* > * > > Jyestha, Mula and Anuradha form *Mrigveethi*. Deer (similar class of forest > animals) Path. > > Poorvashadha, Uttarasha, Swati and Abhijit form *Vaishwanaraveethi*. Fire > (Or Sun ) Path > > ([REF]:The Above is taken from Sri KN Rao site > http://www.journalofastrology.com > The same is also given in Br. Sm Varahamihira and other texts) > > So I think when u look at the whole class of 6 Veethi's the association the > answer could be different. The symbology of the names given has to be > handled after proper analysis is my current Views. > > These paths are very important for Mundane Transits. > > > Hopefully Guruji will drop a clue on these Veethi (Path) > > Warm Regards > Sanjay P > > Hare Rama Krishna > > > The manipura chakra lording > > digestive fire is ruled by Mars. It can also be > > recalled that the creation of Brahma started from this > > point...hence this is the begining of creation. > > Infact, the first veedhi of Vaiswanara nakshatra > > mandala is called " aja " meaning " unborn " as well as > > " goat " (mesha?). All this is taken from Vishnupurana > > and I will give the link below, so if you have missed > > it earlier, you can go through it now. I would > > appreciate your comments on it very much. > > > > sohamsa/message/28 > > > > And, Lord krishna says that > > > > Aham vaiswanarobhutwa praninam dehamasritah| > > > > That's the first devolvement of God into creation. > > and, i hope you are able to see the diagram drawn by > > me, because Sourav ji had some difficulty there. > > Infact, what you see there is an approximation of > > " yoni " ...the seat of creation. > > > > Regards, > > Lakshmi > > > > > > --- Zoran Radosavljevic <ahimsa@N...> wrote: > > > > > Om Hrim Gam Hrim Mahaganapataye Namah Svaha, > > > Dear Sourav, > > > The word Mool, means " root " , Tri KOna should be " > > > THird Kona " or 9th > > > house ( Pardon if my sanskrit is not good enough)or > > > if we undestand it > > > differently it could be the root of all kona houses. > > > Kona houses, > > > particularly 9th house indicates Dharma, or duty. I > > > wouldnot agree > > > (sorry Laksmiji) that these houses indicate Rajas > > > Guna, which can be > > > true only in case of Arudas, whereas I would relate > > > it to Satva Guna/ > > > but, let's leave this matter aside for a moment. The > > > root of kona > > > houses would indicate the root of Dharma, so any > > > planet in its house > > > would perform its dharmic duty. That is the rason > > > why Navamsa is based > > > on Trikona,(9th house primarily), where navamsa > > > calculations clearly > > > rely on trikona (varghotama amsas are 1st 5th 9th > > > for movable, fixed > > > and dual signs). Navamsa is further known as dharma > > > amsa. Thus, planet > > > in multrikona will always perform their dharma, or > > > what we simply say > > > duty. Hope this helps > > > Zoran > > > > > > Monday, September 19, 2005, 3:33:22 PM, you wrote: > > > > > > > || Hare Rama Krishna || > > > > > > > Dear Partha-ji and Lakshmi-ji, > > > > Namaskar. I am > > > looking for a more > > > > etymological and fundamental definition of > > > Moolatrikona. The Moola > > > > and trikona - two words are perhaps pointing > > > towards something which > > > > I am not quite able to lay my finger on. > > > > > > > Lakshmi-ji, your hint on relating the moolatrikona > > > with rajaguna is > > > > interesting. (Kindly send me the picture by e-mail > > > to > > > > souravc108 as I am unable to see it). > > > However, I would > > > > like to know more. > > > > > > > Thank you for helping me to understand these > > > concepts. > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > Sourav > > > > > > > > > ================================================================== > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sohamsa , " V.Partha sarathy " > > > <partvinu@g...> > > > > wrote: > > > >> Dear Lakshmi Garu > > > >> > > > >> I am not going to debate about gunas(What does it > > > mean anyway?) > > > >> > > > >> For me Moolaktrikona is a place, where the planet > > > does his duty. > > > > He > > > >> is duty bound there. Ketu's dharma is moksha, > > > Jupiter's dharma is > > > >> protection and blessings, Mother's dharma is > > > feeding etc. > > > >> > > > >> best wishes > > > >> partha > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> sohamsa , lakshmi ramesh > > > >> <b_lakshmi_ramesh> wrote: > > > >> > Om Gurave Namah > > > >> > > > > >> > Namaste Sourav ji & the list, > > > >> > > > > >> > You have thrown up a very interesting thought > > > and I > > > >> > also eagerly waited for the explanation from > > > the > > > >> > gurus. Since it did not come (Guruji must be > > > very > > > >> > busy), I thought I'll try my hand. Hopefully, > > > this > > > >> > mail will elicit his response, because no Guru > > > can > > > >> > bear to see his / her student getting all the > > > wrong > > > >> > ideas!! :--)) > > > >> > > > > >> > In the following few lines, I will try to put > > > forward > > > >> > my interpretation of Moolatrikona. This > > > explanation > > > >> > could be fraught with many errors, so I request > > > the > > > >> > learned members to correct me. > > > >> > > > > >> > In my Mumbai conference paper, I likened the > > > sattwik > > > >> > state of a planet to its exaltation and tamasic > > > state > > > >> > to debilitation. Extending this logic, > > > Moolatrikona / > > > >> > own house would then correspond to rajasic > > > state. > > > >> > > > > >> > It is known that the creation began when the > > > Nirguna > > > >> > Parabrahma desired to proliferate / multiply > > > >> > Himself…so the first guna that manifested is > > > rajas, > > > >> > hence Brahma is also stated to be rajasik. > > > >> > Astrologically too, if we look at the planets > > > closest > > > >> > to Sun (representative of both SELF and self), > > > they > > > >> > are mercury and Venus, both related to rajasa > > > guna and > > > >> > to desire. > > > >> > > > > >> > Out of this rajasa sprung sattwa and tamas. It > > > is the > > > >> > interaction of panchabhutas with these > > > trigunas, which > > > >> > is responsible for the creation. In this > > > regard, I > > > >> > refer to my earlier post about the three > > > nakshatra > > > >> > mandalas (Airavata, Jaaradgava and Vaiswanara) > > > too. > > > >> > > > > >> > Pictorially, it would look like this… > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > Because Rajasa guna is the root of all > > > trigunas, > > > >> > tripuras…infact all that is " tri " in this > > > universe, it > > > >> > is called moola trikona. > > > >> > I am sure some learned member will help with > > > marana > > > >> > karaka sthana explanation, before I come out > > > with my > > > >> > edition!! > > > >> > > > > >> > I look forward to your corrections. > > > >> > > > > >> > Regards, > > > >> > Lakshmi > > > >> > > > > >> > P.S: I am attaching this file too, in case the > > > wobbly > > > >> > picture painstakingly drawn by me doesn't get > > > pasted > > > >> > in the message. > > > >> > > > > >> > || Hare Rama Krishna || > > > >> > > > > >> > Dear Jyotisa-mandali, > > > >> > > > > >> > Pranam/Namaskar. I am > > > trying to > > > >> > re-learn my > > > >> > basics and I am not understanding some of the > > > >> > terminology well. > > > >> > > > > >> > What is the real meaning of " moolatrikona " > > > >> > (moola=root/prime and > > > >> > trikona=trines)? > > > >> > > > > >> > Also what is the definition of > > > Maranakarakasthana. I > > > >> > see that for a > > > >> > planet (like Sa, Mo, Ve, Ra) its debilitation > > > house in > > > >> > the natural > > > >> > zodiac is the maranakarakasthana. For example, > > > Mo is > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 > > > > > > > > > > *tat savitur varenyam* > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 Om Hrim Gam Hrim MahaGanapataye Namah Svaha, Dear Svayambu, Marana Karaka sthana will have a negative impact on his professional life firts. Moon in multrikona has to provide a good care and sustenance, comforts etc. Since moon is in 12 from Arudha Lagna, mother will always expect a special care, and whatever the native chooses, will not make mother happy. So a loss of relationship one way or another is bound to happen. Being in multrikona, moon will always want to perform its dharma, so will keep the situation beyond the complete loss, will alwyas try to improve the situation.Hope this helps, Zoran > Dear Gurus > I had orginally posed the question about the moolatrikona degree moon > in the 8th house in vrishaba (in MKS). > I read all your explanations and let me thank you all for your > clarifications and discussion. > However I am still wondering what about the MKS ? > I understand that moon in moolatrikona degree in vrishaba will do his > dharma but I sense that somehow the significations may be affected. > I am saying this because the native who has this chart has a troubled > relationship with his mother (separation). For more information the > native was born on 23rd October 1975 at 7.05 am in Bangalore > (Latitude: 12° 58'12 " N Longitude: 77°34'48 " E ). > Could you please provide some advice ? > Thanks again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 Om Gurave Namah Namaste Prabhakara:-)) It is interesting to see that KN Rao's site gives a different set of names. I have taken mine from the editions of Vishnu Purana tranlated by Sri Kalluri Venkata Subrahmanya Deekshitulu ( Kanchi mutt)and Yelchuri Muralidhara Rao (Ramakrishna Mutt). Has Sri Rao's site given any source for their version, because i would like to refer to them too. But i find a discontinuity / jump in that version, and the entire section from Makha to Poorvaphalguni is missing.Thanks for the link to his site and let me refer to it. I am sure we are all going to benefit because of that. Prabhakara, The gunas and tattwas are different, but it is their various interactions which produce so much variety in the creation, isn't it? And, if the trikona symbolises the trigunas, the central Bindu represents omkara (shiva)and contains the seed of pancha bhutas within it. Finally, what is dharma? The root here is " dhri " which means " manner of being " or one's inherent, innate nature. And, being dharmic means being true to oneself. And, this creation is meant to be rajo guni, because it is rooted to earth, bound by the birth cycle...but not without choices. One can become evolve towards satwa or can devolve towards tamas. It's a case of using one's free will. The karma bhava being the 2nd from dharma is meant to sustain it and as Zoran rightly said Dhanus represents action based on dharma. Infact, I said 3 years ago itself that the 10th house is a continuation of the 9th house, especially the the 2nd part of sagittarius and the first part of capricorn are one continuum. If you go through the description of the signs, you can observe this. 9th house is also said to be the Vishnu Sthana and the Lord Himself became tamoguni, rajo guni and sattwa guni based on the need. His avataras prove it. The fact that a rakshasa like Narakaasura was born to the Lord is attributed to the fact that that when the conception took place, the Lord was tamoguni, as the Varaha avatara. In fact, it is only when He is sleeping (Chaturmasya), the tamo- and rajo- gunas get merged into sattwa...and that's His true state. This is stated in Bhagavatham. Dhanus is saattwik because it is lorded by a saattwik planet, is rajo guni because it is action oriented, and tamoguni because because it is active during the night. I could be wrong in my interpretations, but i keep wondering why sage Parasara had used so many parameters to describe all the zodiacal signs, unless it is to bring out these fine differences/nuances? Thanks for a very thought provoking discussion. Regards, Lakshmi --- Sanjay Prabhakaran <sanjaychettiar wrote: > || Om Gurave Namah || > > Namaste Lakshmi and other learned members, > > I liked Jyotisha Zoran's description of Mooltrikona > as Prime-Duty location > of the planet. Even, Guru Pt. SanjayRath also > describes it in a similar way, > > Exaltation as though in Picnic (Very Happy) > Moolatrikona as though in Office and > Own house as though their home. > > Ex, Jupiter's home is Pisces, Office is > Saggittirius, Cancer as " Picnic > spot " . > > Now, coming to the topic on hand, I agree with you > > that Dhanus is a saattwik sign, (i better agree, > > seeing that its our common ascendant:--))) but > still > > it is a fire sign and fire is rajo guni. Dhanus > > represents battle grounds, military camps etc and > > that's hardly saattwik, isn't it? Infact this > > description makes Dhanus sound more like a house > of > > > > My points, The 5 Tatwas (Elements) are different > from 3 Guna(Rajas Tamas & > Satwa). The three Guna's mix in different > proportions to form the 5 > elements. And 5 Elements in turn mix in proportions > to form 3 Doshas, (Vaata > , Pitta and Kapha). > > A Fiery element can be Saatvic, Like Sun is Saatvic > yet Fiery in nature, It > can also be tamasic like Mars. > > > The term " Vaiswanara " refers to the cosmic fire as > > also the digestive fire. > > > > My addition The Veethi(Paths) are based on group > Nakshatra's. The texts are > alluding to something which I have not yet given > enough thought about. > > * > VEETHI/PATH* > > Ashwini, Bharani, Krittika form *Naagveethi*. (Naaga > (Cobra's) Path) > > Rohini, Mrigshira and Ardra form *Gajveethi*. > Elephants Path > > Punarvasu, Pushya, and Ashlesha form *Airavat > Veethi, *Indra's Elephant (has > many(7?) tusks and trunks) Path* > * > > Poorvabhadrapad, Uttabhadrapad and Revati form > *Goveethi*. Cow's Path > > Hasta, Vishakha and Chitra form *Ajveethi. *Ram's > (Mountain Goat/Aries > ruler) path.* > * > > Jyestha, Mula and Anuradha form *Mrigveethi*. Deer > (similar class of forest > animals) Path. > > Poorvashadha, Uttarasha, Swati and Abhijit form > *Vaishwanaraveethi*. Fire > (Or Sun ) Path > > ([REF]:The Above is taken from Sri KN Rao site > http://www.journalofastrology.com > The same is also given in Br. Sm Varahamihira and > other texts) > > So I think when u look at the whole class of 6 > Veethi's the association the > answer could be different. The symbology of the > names given has to be > handled after proper analysis is my current Views. > > These paths are very important for Mundane Transits. > > > Hopefully Guruji will drop a clue on these Veethi > (Path) > > Warm Regards > Sanjay P > > Hare Rama Krishna > > > The manipura chakra lording > > digestive fire is ruled by Mars. It can also be > > recalled that the creation of Brahma started from > this > > point...hence this is the begining of creation. > > Infact, the first veedhi of Vaiswanara nakshatra > > mandala is called " aja " meaning " unborn " as well > as > > " goat " (mesha?). All this is taken from > Vishnupurana > > and I will give the link below, so if you have > missed > > it earlier, you can go through it now. I would > > appreciate your comments on it very much. > > > > sohamsa/message/28 > > > > And, Lord krishna says that > > > > Aham vaiswanarobhutwa praninam dehamasritah| > > > > That's the first devolvement of God into creation. > > and, i hope you are able to see the diagram drawn > by > > me, because Sourav ji had some difficulty there. > > Infact, what you see there is an approximation of > > " yoni " ...the seat of creation. > > > > Regards, > > Lakshmi > > > > > > --- Zoran Radosavljevic <ahimsa > wrote: > > > > > Om Hrim Gam Hrim Mahaganapataye Namah Svaha, > > > Dear Sourav, > > > The word Mool, means " root " , Tri KOna should be > " > > > THird Kona " or 9th > > > house ( Pardon if my sanskrit is not good > enough)or > > > if we undestand it > > > differently it could be the root of all kona > houses. > > > Kona houses, > > > particularly 9th house indicates Dharma, or > duty. I > > > wouldnot agree > > > (sorry Laksmiji) that these houses indicate > Rajas > > > Guna, which can be > > > true only in case of Arudas, whereas I would > relate > > > it to Satva Guna/ > > > but, let's leave this matter aside for a moment. > The > > > root of kona > > > houses would indicate the root of Dharma, so any > > > planet in its house > > > would perform its dharmic duty. That is the > rason > > > why Navamsa is based > > > on Trikona,(9th house primarily), where navamsa > > > calculations clearly > > > rely on trikona (varghotama amsas are 1st 5th > 9th > > > for movable, fixed > > > and dual signs). Navamsa is further known as > dharma > > > amsa. Thus, planet > > > in multrikona will always perform their dharma, > or > > > what we simply say > > > duty. Hope this helps > > > Zoran > > > > > > Monday, September 19, 2005, 3:33:22 PM, you > wrote: > > > > > > > || Hare Rama Krishna || > > > > > > > Dear Partha-ji and Lakshmi-ji, > > > > Namaskar. I am > > > looking for a more > > > > etymological and fundamental definition of > > > Moolatrikona. The Moola > > > > and trikona - two words are perhaps pointing > > > towards something which > > > > I am not quite able to lay my finger on. > > > > > > > Lakshmi-ji, your hint on relating the > moolatrikona > > > with rajaguna is > > > > interesting. (Kindly send me the picture by > e-mail > === message truncated === Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 || Hare Rama Krishna || Dear Lakshmi-ji, Namaskar. Why thank me, I am just nimitta. Please thank Mother for whatever knowledge you receive as all is coming from her. May She bless you and grant you supreme knowledge. We all wish you the best. Best regards, Sourav =================================================================== sohamsa , lakshmi ramesh <b_lakshmi_ramesh> wrote: > Om Gurave Namah > > Dear Zoran, > > Namaste and thank you for your lovely lovely mail. I > know that you'd consider whatever i have put forth > with an open mind. > > Lastly, I want to add one last line...the most > essential & highest form of Mother, as Jagadyoni, > Jagan maata is expressed thus... > > yonimudraa, trikhandesi, trigunaamba, trikonagaa... > > The Lalitha Sahasranaamam almost ends on a cescendo > here, and what follows are only a few lines... the > praise of Mother. Thanks to Sourav and all of you, I > have seen it yesterday. I have tried to show it to all > of you too, but because of my own inadequacies, > perhaps, I have failed to do so. > > Thank you very much. > > Regards, > Lakshmi > --- Zoran Radosavljevic <ahimsa@N...> wrote: > > > Om Hrim Gam Hrim MahaGanapataye Namah Svaha, > > Dear Laksmi > > > Please don't " ji " me, because I have learnt from > > you > > > and am your sishya in astro-knowledge and > > experience. > > Oh, its a sign of respect, not only for your > > knowledge, but I do > > personally like you very much. > > > > > Now, coming to the topic on hand, I agree with you > > > that Dhanus is a saattwik sign, (i better agree, > > > seeing that its our common ascendant:--))) but > > still > > > it is a fire sign and fire is rajo guni. Dhanus > > > represents battle grounds, military camps etc and > > > that's hardly saattwik, isn't it? Infact this > > > description makes Dhanus sound more like a house > > of > > > Mars, the war lord, than that of jupiter! > > I agree with the fact that Dhanush is a fiery sign, > > but it is the > > highest form of Agni tatva. There are two aspects of > > Agni tatva, one > > is fire and another is light. It has not to do with > > the war in real > > sense, but it is the war for dharma, as beautifully > > explained in > > Bhagavad Gita, where Kurukshetra is the field > > -Kshetra of Karma-Kuru. > > Thus, dhanu indicates the moral fight for dharma, > > where the main > > massage tells us that we cannot stay away from this > > karma, but perform > > the right activities. And what is the right > > activity? That is why > > Arjuna is confused. However, Shri Krishna tells him: > > " Nistrai Guna > > bhava Arjuna " - Be without the three gunas, transcend > > this field of > > karma- Be your SELF- ATMAN, that is the true > > message. So I would not > > assign sign dhanu with war in this low sense. > > > > > > > Dhanus is a sign where jupiter is in " avarohana " , > > > i.e., heading towards debility, while mars is in > > > " aarohana " , heading towards exaltation. > > Very Good point indeed. Mars in exaltation is > > MahaPurusha, however In > > dhanu, Mars is just to enter exaltation > > Uchchbhilashi,indicating that > > his attitude is calm, before the battle, a true > > warriour has to be > > perfectly calm and composed, like a steel, not a raw > > iron. For that > > reason Mars rules Sama Veda, where Sama indicates > > balance, composed. > > After performing his dharma, a Guru becomes weak, a > > new cycle is > > beginning, that is why fiery signs indicate Sat > > Yuga. > > > > > > > Dhanus is not > > > a pure sattwik / passive sign like pisces, it is a > > > kshatriya / martian sign..Parasara says so. Dhanus > > is > > > a sign of attachment to " action " based on one's > > > " dharma " . And, all action / attachment to action > > is > > > rajasik in nature, according to Sri Krishna.I know > > > that you will not think that I am showing off when > > I > > > quote from scriptures...you know the scriptures > > and me > > > too well to think that! > > No, On the contrary, I appriciate that, I know you > > well, to think that > > you are showing off. No please, go on. I personally > > beleive that that > > dhanu does not show attachment to action and that > > Shri Krishna does > > not advise that. He advises: " Nistrai Guna Bhava > > ARjuna " be without > > tri gunas. I personally beleiva that the more we > > concur rajas, the > > more satva will come. Dhanu is natural 9th house of > > the Kaal Purush, > > and is the place of Isha -God, It is the guiding > > principle of our > > birth. I cannot assign rajas guna to it. Actually, > > Chara signs are > > rajas, stira signs are tamas, and dvishabhava sign > > (dhanu is here) are > > Satva as far as creation is concerned. > > > > > > > > > The term " Vaiswanara " refers to the cosmic fire as > > > also the digestive fire. The manipura chakra > > lording > > > digestive fire is ruled by Mars. It can also be > > > recalled that the creation of Brahma started from > > this > > > point...hence this is the begining of creation. > > > Infact, the first veedhi of Vaiswanara nakshatra > > > mandala is called " aja " meaning " unborn " as well > > as > > > " goat " (mesha?). All this is taken from > > Vishnupurana > > > and I will give the link below, so if you have > > missed > > > it earlier, you can go through it now. I would > > > appreciate your comments on it very much. > > > > > sohamsa/message/28 > > > > I hate myself for not knowing Hindi, othervise I > > would take a leave > > from here and lock myself into one of yours huge > > libraries and will > > not leave it for months... I will have to go through > > it, so we can > > discuss it. > > > > > And, Lord krishna says that > > > > > Aham vaiswanarobhutwa praninam dehamasritah| > > > > > That's the first devolvement of God into creation. > > > and, i hope you are able to see the diagram drawn > > by > > > me, because Sourav ji had some difficulty there. > > > Infact, what you see there is an approximation of > > > " yoni " ...the seat of creation. > > I will be back after I take more insight into your > > paperwork from > > Mumbai. You did a great job I remember. So far, I > > think that you are > > right in seing the Agni in Dhanu. But I beleive that > > Agni you see > > refers to light not to fire itself. > > Lot of regards and thanks for this nice thread, > > Zoran > > > > > > > Regards, > > > Lakshmi > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2005 Report Share Posted September 24, 2005 Om Hrim Gam Hrim MahaGanapataye Namah Svaha, Dear Tijana, > Om Gurave Namah > Dear Zoranji, > I have a few implications from verses of Bhagavad Gita in mind > related to Dharma and fighting for it. > " Lord Krishna blew Panchajanya... " ,(the conch made from the bone of > the demon Panchajana) creating a powerful demoniac force against the > devilish Kauravas and giving rise to negative forces in Pandavas. > The force of rightiousness cannot destroy, pure satva cannot fight, > that's why rajas is needed. Excellent, indeed. However, for destruction, I would always abide to Tamas and Neela Shakti, since Bhoo Shakti with Rajas is responsible for creation. > Lord Krishna said that He will be on one side, though not fighting, > and His army will be on the other. Duryodhana preferred to take the > army. So Arjuna had Lord Krishna on his side, and after he surrender > to Him and receieved a Divine Knowledge become one with Him- > " Yogastah Kuru Karmani " . " Arjuna's banner bore the image of Hanuman " - > Arjuna is like Hanuman, a perfect God's servant. Only in the Union > with the God Dharma is acchieved and gunas are being transcended.I > don't think that the Union is ninth bhava, but the 12th. Yes, that is correct. The transcendence of Guna is seen in 12th house.However, the fight for dharma is 9th house. Both these houses belong to graha Guru (dhanu and meen) in natural zodiac. The battle is tough and the path is very difficult. One has to cross Makara sign (the Kali Yuga)and sigh Kumbha (the seat of Rahu-Badhaka)from dhanu to meen. That is why God-Isha (9th house) is very happy-sukha (4th house) counted from 9th, when we reach moksha (12th house). > It is not very clear to me why does the Guru becomes weak at the end > of a yuga cycle. This is the turn from Dhanu (multrikon) of Guru (satva yuga signs) are fiery signs, to makara (neecha sign)-kali yuga signs are earthy signs. This is inevitable fate of knowledge which has to crush upon the rocks of ignorance-the lapse of time... See the introduction to the commentary of Bhagavad Gita by Shri Maharshi Mahesh Yogi. Best wishes Zoran > sohamsa , Zoran Radosavljevic <ahimsa@N...> > wrote: >> Om Hrim Gam Hrim MahaGanapataye Namah Svaha, >> Dear Laksmi >> > Please don't " ji " me, because I have learnt from you >> > and am your sishya in astro-knowledge and experience. >> Oh, its a sign of respect, not only for your knowledge, but I do >> personally like you very much. >> >> > Now, coming to the topic on hand, I agree with you >> > that Dhanus is a saattwik sign, (i better agree, >> > seeing that its our common ascendant:--))) but still >> > it is a fire sign and fire is rajo guni. Dhanus >> > represents battle grounds, military camps etc and >> > that's hardly saattwik, isn't it? Infact this >> > description makes Dhanus sound more like a house of >> > Mars, the war lord, than that of jupiter! >> I agree with the fact that Dhanush is a fiery sign, but it is the >> highest form of Agni tatva. There are two aspects of Agni tatva, > one >> is fire and another is light. It has not to do with the war in real >> sense, but it is the war for dharma, as beautifully explained in >> Bhagavad Gita, where Kurukshetra is the field -Kshetra of Karma- > Kuru. >> Thus, dhanu indicates the moral fight for dharma, where the main >> massage tells us that we cannot stay away from this karma, but > perform >> the right activities. And what is the right activity? That is why >> Arjuna is confused. However, Shri Krishna tells him: " Nistrai Guna >> bhava Arjuna " - Be without the three gunas, transcend this field of >> karma- Be your SELF- ATMAN, that is the true message. So I would > not >> assign sign dhanu with war in this low sense. >> >> >> > Dhanus is a sign where jupiter is in " avarohana " , >> > i.e., heading towards debility, while mars is in >> > " aarohana " , heading towards exaltation. >> Very Good point indeed. Mars in exaltation is MahaPurusha, however > In >> dhanu, Mars is just to enter exaltation Uchchbhilashi,indicating > that >> his attitude is calm, before the battle, a true warriour has to be >> perfectly calm and composed, like a steel, not a raw iron. For that >> reason Mars rules Sama Veda, where Sama indicates balance, > composed. >> After performing his dharma, a Guru becomes weak, a new cycle is >> beginning, that is why fiery signs indicate Sat Yuga. >> >> >> > Dhanus is not >> > a pure sattwik / passive sign like pisces, it is a >> > kshatriya / martian sign..Parasara says so. Dhanus is >> > a sign of attachment to " action " based on one's >> > " dharma " . And, all action / attachment to action is >> > rajasik in nature, according to Sri Krishna.I know >> > that you will not think that I am showing off when I >> > quote from scriptures...you know the scriptures and me >> > too well to think that! >> No, On the contrary, I appriciate that, I know you well, to think > that >> you are showing off. No please, go on. I personally beleive that > that >> dhanu does not show attachment to action and that Shri Krishna does >> not advise that. He advises: " Nistrai Guna Bhava ARjuna " be > without >> tri gunas. I personally beleiva that the more we concur rajas, the >> more satva will come. Dhanu is natural 9th house of the Kaal > Purush, >> and is the place of Isha -God, It is the guiding principle of our >> birth. I cannot assign rajas guna to it. Actually, Chara signs are >> rajas, stira signs are tamas, and dvishabhava sign (dhanu is here) > are >> Satva as far as creation is concerned. >> >> >> >> > The term " Vaiswanara " refers to the cosmic fire as >> > also the digestive fire. The manipura chakra lording >> > digestive fire is ruled by Mars. It can also be >> > recalled that the creation of Brahma started from this >> > point...hence this is the begining of creation. >> > Infact, the first veedhi of Vaiswanara nakshatra >> > mandala is called " aja " meaning " unborn " as well as >> > " goat " (mesha?). All this is taken from Vishnupurana >> > and I will give the link below, so if you have missed >> > it earlier, you can go through it now. I would >> > appreciate your comments on it very much. >> >> > sohamsa/message/28 >> >> I hate myself for not knowing Hindi, othervise I would take a leave >> from here and lock myself into one of yours huge libraries and will >> not leave it for months... I will have to go through it, so we can >> discuss it. >> >> > And, Lord krishna says that >> >> > Aham vaiswanarobhutwa praninam dehamasritah| >> >> > That's the first devolvement of God into creation. >> > and, i hope you are able to see the diagram drawn by >> > me, because Sourav ji had some difficulty there. >> > Infact, what you see there is an approximation of >> > " yoni " ...the seat of creation. >> I will be back after I take more insight into your paperwork from >> Mumbai. You did a great job I remember. So far, I think that you > are >> right in seing the Agni in Dhanu. But I beleive that Agni you see >> refers to light not to fire itself. >> Lot of regards and thanks for this nice thread, >> Zoran >> >> >> > Regards, >> > Lakshmi > *tat savitur varenyam* > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 3, 2006 Report Share Posted June 3, 2006 Dear All, Some place names like Prag Jyotisha, Kamakhya etc (places with historical importance) which Chandrahari ji had mentioned was there in my mind. So I just searched for the place name starting with “Prag” in Jhora place search and got the place name "Pragpura". Pragpura = Ancient city. Yap, it sounds good. I don't know where this place is, just having fun. Then I just re-casted the horoscope taking 6.00 am as birth time; just for fun; and got the following result - Moolatrikona - Chart (BC 3663) - Skanda June 29, -3662 Time: 6:00:00 am Time Zone: 5:30:00 (East of GMT) Place: 76 E 06' 00", 27 N 37' 00" Pragpura, India Altitude: 0.00 meters Lunar Yr-Mo: Kaala-yukta - Bhadrapada Tithi: Krishna Shashthi (Ve) (7.84% left) Vedic Weekday: Sunday (Su) Nakshatra: Krittika (Su) (0.81% left) Yoga: Vajra (Mo) (84.56% left) Karana: Vanija (Ve) (15.69% left) Hora Lord: Sun (5 min sign: Aq) Mahakala Hora: Mars (5 min sign: Li) Kaala Lord: Sun (Mahakala: Sun) Sunrise: 5:26:54 am Sunset: 7:17:06 pm Janma Ghatis: 1.3794 Ayanamsa: 54-13-25.80 (Chitrapaksha) Sidereal Time: 23:58:14 Ra Gk +--------------+ Mo |MaR | |Mo |Ke | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |-----------+-----------------------+-----------| Me |SaR | | | As | | | | | | | | | | Rasi - Inside | | | | | | |-----------| Navamsa - Outside |-----------| | Gk | |Su | | | | |MaR | | | | | | | | | | | | |-----------+-----------------------+-----------| |Ju Ra | |Ve |As Me | Sa | | | | | Su | | | | |Ju | | | | | | | | | | +--------------+ Ke Ve I felt as if it is the natal chart of Skanda (Kartikeya), the originator of Kalatantra (Astrology)! Look at that! Nakshatra = Krittika ! Mahakala Hora= Mars (Kumara)! Weekday = Suday (The first day of week as per Indian system, Also indicates Siva)! Hora Lord = Sun (Siva)! Kaala Lord= Sun (Mahakala: Sun) Legna lord (Me=Young Prince, Kumara) and Ma (Kumara) aspecting lagna! 2 planets exalted, 5 planets in Own house, Ve Vargottama! Shall we create a story that - "Skanda, the originator or astrology born in born in the ancient city of Pragpura, in BC 3663 June 29, Early morning 6.00 am. Hee is considered to be an incarnation, and son of God Siva, Krittikas nurtured him in the childhood etc". ) Just having fun. lollllllzzzz.......... P.S. : Even if Moolatrikona graha placement have some importance, this is not that planetary placement. If the ancients got Sa, Ju, Su, Ve, Me, and Mo in the right place; then they could never commit a mistake in mentioning the actual placement of Ma. So it should be another point in time, which caused this Moolatrikona concept. It is also possible that Moolatrikona concept is not at all related to planetary placement at any point of time, but rather a result of theoretical and conceptual considerations. So instead of making new stories, let us continue our study and search. Love, Sreenadh Sreenadh <sreesog wrote: Dear All,==>> Moolatrikona means root triangle. Does they > indicate the placement of planets at some far ancient time?<== Look at this - +--------------+ | | | | | | | | | | | | Ma | Mo | | | | | | | | | | | | |-----------+-----------------------+-----------| |Sa | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |-----------| Moolatrikona |-----------| | | |Su | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |-----------+-----------------------+-----------| |Ju | |Ve | Me | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | +--------------+ This gives the Moolatrikona of all planets. It seems like a possible planetary position! Was there such a planetary position in some ancient past when astrology originated?! It could be! For sure some secret is there behind! Given below is a chart of BC 3663 June 29 Sunday, generated by JHora; Just to indicate that a similar combination is possible. Moolatrikona - Chart (BC 3663) Natal Chart June 29, -3662Time: 7:00:00 amTime Zone: 5:30:00 (East of GMT)Place: 75 E 46' 00", 23 N 11' 00" Kota, IndiaAltitude: 0.00 meters Lunar Yr-Mo: Kaala-yukta - BhadrapadaTithi: Krishna Shashthi (Ve) (3.82% left)Vedic Weekday: Sunday (Su)Nakshatra: Rohini (Mo) (96.88% left)Yoga: Vajra (Mo) (80.32% left)Karana: Vanija (Ve) (7.64% left)Hora Lord: Venus (5 min sign: Aq)Mahakala Hora: Sun (5 min sign: Aq)Kaala Lord: Sun (Mahakala: Sun) Sunrise: 5:38:09 amSunset: 7:08:33 pmJanma Ghatis: 3.4108 Ayanamsa: 54-13-25.80Sidereal Time: 0:57:04 +--------------+ |MaR | |Mo |Ke | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |-----------+-----------------------+-----------| |SaR | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |-----------| Rasi |-----------| |Md Gk | |Su | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |-----------+-----------------------+-----------| |Ju Ra | |Ve |As Me | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | +--------------+ I am now in Kota and I thought about this around 7.00 am, and just because of that taking that time and place. * Except Ma all other planets fullfill the Moolatrikona condition. * Just to make Ve appear in Li, Chitrapaksha Ayanamsa is used. * I don't have any argument that astrology started in this period, or that this year has any special importance. * It is just a cute info came to mind while playing with JHora amd Moolatrikona concept. Love, Sreenadh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 3, 2006 Report Share Posted June 3, 2006 Dear Shreenadh, Once it is said Most Indians are knowledgeable, spiritual and intellectual but when it comes to History, they act most ridiculous and gross. The ancient science of astrology has its origins in times much earlier than what you have indicated. The Origins of astrology have started with the Jyotish, the Vedang. In Vedic times, they were mostly concerned with timing the vedic events such as Rituals and festivals. In the very old days, there were only Brahmins in this society and they were also called Asuras. They were mostly cow rearing people living in both forests and towns. They were mostly helped by Rakshasas, the predecessors of Yavanas. The word Rakshasa means one who protects. Hence, these people are mostly meant for protecting the herds of cows as well as protecting their masters. However, I do not think there was the concept of private property in the strict sense of the word. There were commercial traders called Panis. While these people are heavily into commercial trading, the agriculture was non existent and at most, only done in wilderness and not in a systematic way. Indra, whose travel has been established from Iraq during the time of great deluge, has come to introduce cultivation of rice and ruler ship. The purusha sukta describes the heavy fighting that took place between the Gods (read the people of Indra) and the people who are living in towns. The story of Vrita getting killed in the hands of Indra is one such episode and occupies a prime place in RgVeda, The society has undergone heavy changes, especially with the development of such new concepts as private property and caste system. The same story is retold as the episode of Prayag, wherein the King sacrifices his body to Devas. More over, there are several knowledgeable people who came along with Indra such as Kasyapa and perhaps , Brhspati. Certainly, this kind of people has a hand in giving new direction to the sciences already established in the Land of India. This was a time of consolidation of ancient knowledge, synthesis of social forces and advent of new sciences. It is at this time that the Jyotish was practically used for timing events of mundane affairs, to start with, those connected with agriculture. Slowly, the Jyotish has found its way into the daily lives and people started remembering the stars in which one was born, timing the marriages and important Meta physical events such as Coronations etc. Yet, even during the time of Sri Rama, people more depended upon the Nimitta and sakuna (omens)than on astrology. But by the time of Mahabharat, there were several books were written and the samhitas were innumerable in number and there were many methodologies adopted in predicting and reading charts. It is Sage Parasara who has been gracious enough to compile all the samhitas into one book and have given the most authentic set of rules of astrology for the posterity of mankind. So, at time you are talking of , Lord Krishna was already born and Sage Parasara was older to Sri Krishna by 100 years or so. Hence, you are postponing the beginnings of astrology by several thousands of years. More over, the name of Prgjyotishpur (and the land of Kamrup, for which it was the capital) is connected with more of black magic but not with astrology. In any case, even if we agree on the lining of events as given above, it is virtually impossible to find out when they have taken place. Hence, it is virtually impossible to find out the beginning of astrology in its present form also! Hope you will agree with me Kishore patnaik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 3, 2006 Report Share Posted June 3, 2006 Dear Kishore ji, Read the full message first! I have never argued that astrology originated in that period or that that planetory position was important! I have clearly stated it at the end of the mail ! I was given only to indicate that, planetory position as indicated by Moolatrikona could actually occur. ==> > The ancient science of astrology has its origins in times much > earlier than what you have indicated. <== I know that, agree to it completly. But you should know that JHora full version allows chart calculation only upto BC 5400, and I was looking for a planetory position that fullfills Moolatrikona planetory position at least to an extend, as just part of research. It is not even necessory that such planetory position has any relation with the origin of astrological system. That too I have stated at the end of the mail. But you was impatiant, even to read it till the end. No worries - it is ok. Love, Sreenadh kishore mohan <kishore_future wrote: Dear Shreenadh, Once it is said Most Indians are knowledgeable, spiritual and intellectual but when it comes to History, they act most ridiculous and gross. The ancient science of astrology has its origins in times much earlier than what you have indicated. The Origins of astrology have started with the Jyotish, the Vedang. In Vedic times, they were mostly concerned with timing the vedic events such as Rituals and festivals. In the very old days, there were only Brahmins in this society and they were also called Asuras. They were mostly cow rearing people living in both forests and towns. They were mostly helped by Rakshasas, the predecessors of Yavanas. The word Rakshasa means one who protects. Hence, these people are mostly meant for protecting the herds of cows as well as protecting their masters. However, I do not think there was the concept of private property in the strict sense of the word. There were commercial traders called Panis. While these people are heavily into commercial trading, the agriculture was non existent and at most, only done in wilderness and not in a systematic way. Indra, whose travel has been established from Iraq during the time of great deluge, has come to introduce cultivation of rice and ruler ship. The purusha sukta describes the heavy fighting that took place between the Gods (read the people of Indra) and the people who are living in towns. The story of Vrita getting killed in the hands of Indra is one such episode and occupies a prime place in RgVeda, The society has undergone heavy changes, especially with the development of such new concepts as private property and caste system. The same story is retold as the episode of Prayag, wherein the King sacrifices his body to Devas. More over, there are several knowledgeable people who came along with Indra such as Kasyapa and perhaps , Brhspati. Certainly, this kind of people has a hand in giving new direction to the sciences already established in the Land of India. This was a time of consolidation of ancient knowledge, synthesis of social forces and advent of new sciences. It is at this time that the Jyotish was practically used for timing events of mundane affairs, to start with, those connected with agriculture. Slowly, the Jyotish has found its way into the daily lives and people started remembering the stars in which one was born, timing the marriages and important Meta physical events such as Coronations etc. Yet, even during the time of Sri Rama, people more depended upon the Nimitta and sakuna (omens)than on astrology. But by the time of Mahabharat, there were several books were written and the samhitas were innumerable in number and there were many methodologies adopted in predicting and reading charts. It is Sage Parasara who has been gracious enough to compile all the samhitas into one book and have given the most authentic set of rules of astrology for the posterity of mankind. So, at time you are talking of , Lord Krishna was already born and Sage Parasara was older to Sri Krishna by 100 years or so. Hence, you are postponing the beginnings of astrology by several thousands of years. More over, the name of Prgjyotishpur (and the land of Kamrup, for which it was the capital) is connected with more of black magic but not with astrology. In any case, even if we agree on the lining of events as given above, it is virtually impossible to find out when they have taken place. Hence, it is virtually impossible to find out the beginning of astrology in its present form also!Hope you will agree with meKishore patnaik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 3, 2006 Report Share Posted June 3, 2006 Dear sreenadh bhai, of course, I have read the entire message. What else one can make of the following statement? *This gives the Moolatrikona of all planets. It seems like a possible planetary position! Was there such a planetary position in some ancient past when astrology originated?! It could be! For sure some secret is there behind!* I have also read that you have no arguements to state that this is the planetary position which indicates that this is origination of astrology. Hence, I took it that you have assumed that the planetary position indicates the possible origin of astrology but not arguing over that! I could only understand that you are assuming but not arguing that the planetary position indicates the origination of astrology! So, I have to put in my two pence to show why astrology could not have started at that point of time Of course, no doubt I got impatient because this concerns history and so far as History is concerned, I feel that most educated and sensible people in India also either donot know the correc history or how to appreciate it. Nothing personal in that Anyway, no worries if you agree with me!!! best wishes, Kishore patnaik , sree nadh <sreesog wrote: > > Dear Kishore ji, > Read the full message first! I have never argued that astrology originated in that period or that that planetory position was important! I have clearly stated it at the end of the mail ! > I was given only to indicate that, planetory position as indicated by Moolatrikona could actually occur. > ==> > > The ancient science of astrology has its origins in times much > > earlier than what you have indicated. > <== > I know that, agree to it completly. But you should know that JHora full version allows chart calculation only upto BC 5400, and I was looking for a planetory position that fullfills Moolatrikona planetory position at least to an extend, as just part of research. It is not even necessory that such planetory position has any relation with the origin of astrological system. That too I have stated at the end of the mail. But you was impatiant, even to read it till the end. No worries - it is ok. > Love, > Sreenadh > > kishore mohan <kishore_future wrote: > Dear Shreenadh, > > Once it is said Most Indians are knowledgeable, spiritual and > intellectual but when it comes to History, they act most ridiculous > and gross. > > The ancient science of astrology has its origins in times much > earlier than what you have indicated. > > The Origins of astrology have started with the Jyotish, the Vedang. > In Vedic times, they were mostly concerned with timing the vedic > events such as Rituals and festivals. > > In the very old days, there were only Brahmins in this society and > they were also called Asuras. They were mostly cow rearing people > living in both forests and towns. They were mostly helped by > Rakshasas, the predecessors of Yavanas. > > The word Rakshasa means one who protects. Hence, these people are > mostly meant for protecting the herds of cows as well as protecting > their masters. However, I do not think there was the concept of > private property in the strict sense of the word. > > There were commercial traders called Panis. While these people are > heavily into commercial trading, the agriculture was non existent > and at most, only done in wilderness and not in a systematic way. > > Indra, whose travel has been established from Iraq during the time > of great deluge, has come to introduce cultivation of rice and ruler > ship. The purusha sukta describes the heavy fighting that took place > between the Gods (read the people of Indra) and the people who are > living in towns. The story of Vrita getting killed in the hands of > Indra is one such episode and occupies a prime place in RgVeda, The > society has undergone heavy changes, especially with the development > of such new concepts as private property and caste system. The same > story is retold as the episode of Prayag, wherein the King > sacrifices his body to Devas. > > More over, there are several knowledgeable people who came along > with Indra such as Kasyapa and perhaps , Brhspati. Certainly, this > kind of people has a hand in giving new direction to the sciences > already established in the Land of India. > > This was a time of consolidation of ancient knowledge, synthesis of > social forces and advent of new sciences. It is at this time that > the Jyotish was practically used for timing events of mundane > affairs, to start with, those connected with agriculture. > > Slowly, the Jyotish has found its way into the daily lives and > people started remembering the stars in which one was born, timing > the marriages and important Meta physical events such as Coronations > etc. > > Yet, even during the time of Sri Rama, people more depended upon > the Nimitta and sakuna (omens)than on astrology. > > But by the time of Mahabharat, there were several books were written > and the samhitas were innumerable in number and there were many > methodologies adopted in predicting and reading charts. It is Sage > Parasara who has been gracious enough to compile all the samhitas > into one book and have given the most authentic set of rules of > astrology for the posterity of mankind. > > So, at time you are talking of , Lord Krishna was already born and > Sage Parasara was older to Sri Krishna by 100 years or so. > > Hence, you are postponing the beginnings of astrology by several > thousands of years. More over, the name of Prgjyotishpur (and the > land of Kamrup, for which it was the capital) is connected with more > of black magic but not with astrology. > > In any case, even if we agree on the lining of events as given > above, it is virtually impossible to find out when they have taken > place. Hence, it is virtually impossible to find out the beginning > of astrology in its present form also! > > Hope you will agree with me > > Kishore patnaik > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 4, 2006 Report Share Posted June 4, 2006 Dear Kishore ji, Your message prompted me to have a re-look at the previous message by you. The primary reaction is – * Such stories are not going to help. Due to the following reasons - 1) Astrology does not seems to have originated with Vedas, but much before than that. It was only stellar astrology and Tropical calendar that can find its firm root in Vedic system. The system we follow today has mostly a Tantric basis, may be the ruminants of Sindhu-Saraswathy civilization. The word Kalatantra the concept of Signs co-relating the degree-minute division of zodiac with Prana (breath) are all part of the Tantric system. 2) The Rishi names in Vedas are indicative of the subject dealt with in the sloka and does not indicate persons. It is well accepted concept supported by Dayananta Saraswaty, Arya samajam, and many other scholars. There are ancient Sanskrit quotes that says the same as well. 3) Except the Sayana bhashya (which was a interpretation of Vedas for the purpose of Yagas) we don’t have even a single good translation/interpretation of Vedas, when it is stated in the Vedic literature it self that Adhibhouthika (worldly) –Adhidaivika (divine-assigning imaginary personalities)-Adhyatmika (spiritual) etc concept should be used for interpreting Vedas. We don’t have a single interpretation of Vedas in these lines. There is another statement that the Vedas should be interpreted based on Shadangas - i.e. 6 branches of Vedas such as Astrology, (Jyotisha), Ethics and Laws (Kalpa) , Etymology (Nirukta), Phonetics (Siksha), Grammar (Vyakarana), Peotry (Jhanda). We don’t have a single interpretation of Vedas in these lines as well. We should know the fact the Sayana Bhashaya actually helped in destroying the original meaning of Vedas, than to safe guard it. Only it is Yaska who tried to uphold the truth at least to a certain extend. Just think of the stupid text “Karma vipakam”, an astrological text, by Sayana as well. That orthodox cast Brahmin nearly killed astrology as well! If you don’t have “Karma vipakam” with you, just have a look at Prasnamarga, you will find some slokas from it in that text. 4) How many of us know that “Agnimeele purohitam” (the first sloka of Rigveda) mainly deals with Grammar, and is speaking about the use of vowels? How many of us know that in Rigveda both Sidereal and tropical zodiac is distinguished and described? 5) Don’t think that every knowledge exists in Vedas, they contain just the seeds of most of the Indian knowledge branches. The science, maths and technology had grown far from that by now. 6) There not even a single proof in support of Aryan Invasion Theory, except some misinterpreted Vedic slokas. If people like Chandrahari argue that those descriptions are rather related to celestial phenomenon and calendar controversy between vedic and non-vedic cultures, with supportive proof what would be your answer? 7) Sidhu-Saraswathy civilization had provided large archeological evidences, where is the archeological evidence for a separate “Aryan” culture existed here?! (Or even a separate vedic culture, except the literature, can we show ruined buildings, places where Homas (Fire sacrifice) were conducted or the even the ruins of great palaces of epic kings?) The scenario we see before us is “history accepting stories, with out seeking or depending on Archeological evidences”! What is the evidence provided by the Sidhu-Saraswathy culture says? Was the skeletons were of people of Dravidian origin!! No, it is not! What is story of newly found city under see near Bombay? It existed almost in the same period or prior to Mohanjadara and Harappa! If you argue it is not – then is there any archeological proof that it is related to vedic or epic culture? (Put literary proof aside for some time, the Vedas had already put us into enough confusion with there various misleading interpretations, and not providing much archeological proof!) 8) If we study the literature and (astrology, architecture, religion etc related) knowledgebase of Dravidian people in Sankham period (1st century AD), and compare it with Sidhu-Saraswathy and Vedic literature and knowledgebase, then it is easy to understand that – · Sindhu-Saraswathy Civilization, Vedic civilization (?) and Dravidian Civilization are entirely different – even though much mix-up took place in the later period. · Sindhu-Saraswathy Civilization was most scientifically advanced of the three and of the earliest origin. · Dravidian civilization was the latest of the three, but it was the one later helped in the survival of most of ancient knowledgebase especially in the period of Arabic and English invasions, may be due to geographical and cultural factors. · The names of ancient gods worshiped in nether north or south of India have little in common with the Vedic gods, even though later the local concepts of various gods got merged with some half vedic puranic gods. · The contributions of Jain and Buddha schools of thought that existed almost from Vedic period can not be neglected, and they were almost like a separate culture, similar to Dravidian or Vedic. This makes the differentiation of culture and religion very difficult. These streams should be valued and given due place in the history and knowledgebase we posses, let it be astrology or vastu or any other subject. 9) If the Sidhu-Saraswathy people were this much advanced in architecture (vastu) do you think they were unaware of mathematics, astrology, yoga etc, when there is direct evidence (as told by historians and archeologists) for the continuous continuation of several of that practices (bricks, type of jewelries, pots etc) even today? 10) Why there is not a language link between Sindhu-Saraswathy civilization and Sanskrit? The Sindhu-Saraswathy civilization is supposed to have used a language without swara chinhas (symols indicating vowel sounds). And in the Indian subcontinent now there is almost not even a single language that exist this characteristics including Sanskrit! In my limited knowledge the only such language I know is English, (there could many others as well I am not an expert on such subjects), but I am not fool enough to co-related the language of Sindhu-Saraswathy civilization in any way to English which is one of 5th or 10th century origin (I don’t know, when English originated). Do you have any clue, why the language of Sidhu-Saraswathy civilization lacks Swara chinhas while in Sanskrit it is used in plenty? 11) Why vedic gods got discarded so easily, when the non-vedic gods continued exist (or get mixed with the popular religion), and still the Vedic-literature held its place? What is the knowledge base and power that helped the Tantric system to survive and even merge the vedic stream into it?! As you know all the temples exists today are the products of Tantric system and not part of vedic culture! Vedas are “used by” the Tantrics and the popular majority to safeguard there original beliefs! Even though much mixing took place, the original system survived and the vedic system got merged into it! Take religion, astrology, medicine, or any other subject – it is a fact, we can find! 12) If we don’t know answer to many questions, then it is better to go up to there are say – rest I don’t know, than making stories 13) The last but the most important statement is – It is completely wrong to make stories with conducting an extensive research study on the subject. It is a violation of learning and research principles! Even after study, baseless story making should be avoided. 14) We are astrologers and better talk about the subject we know, rather than start doing story making for history. The historians (they are already hysterical) are doing that for long, and still teaching wrong stories. ) The condition of the study of history is so pathetic in our country that, even a History post graduate (MA) does not know how to read an ancient script, or how to protect a Palmyra leaf, or how to collect archeological evidences, or the worst even the outlines or system used by his own subject! Hurah…! To all…! ) P.S: There could be many more reasons listed, as I am supporter of Asuras (Tantrics) as well. Yap, similar to the fact that I am a supporter of Vedic, Jain, Budha, Dravidian and all other available type of knowledge streams in ancient India. Love, Sreenadhkishore mohan <kishore_future wrote: I wish there is a person who is good enuf in History in the group whocould have commented on my post on para to para basis.K--- In , sree nadhwrote:>> Dear Kishore ji,> Read the full message first! I have never argued that astrologyoriginated in that period or that that planetory position wasimportant! I have clearly stated it at the end of the mail !> I was given only to indicate that, planetory position asindicated by Moolatrikona could actually occur. > ==>> > The ancient science of astrology has its origins in times much> > earlier than what you have indicated.> <==> I know that, agree to it completly. But you should know thatJHora full version allows chart calculation only upto BC 5400, and Iwas looking for a planetory position that fullfills Moolatrikonaplanetory position at least to an extend, as just part of research.It is not even necessory that such planetory position has anyrelation with the origin of astrological system. That too I havestated at the end of the mail. But you was impatiant, even to read ittill the end. No worries - it is ok. > Love,> Sreenadh>> kishore mohan wrote:> Dear Shreenadh,>> Once it is said Most Indians are knowledgeable, spiritual and> intellectual but when it comes to History, they act most ridiculous> and gross.>> The ancient science of astrology has its origins in times much> earlier than what you have indicated.>> The Origins of astrology have started with the Jyotish, the Vedang.> In Vedic times, they were mostly concerned with timing the vedic> events such as Rituals and festivals.>> In the very old days, there were only Brahmins in this society and> they were also called Asuras. They were mostly cow rearing people> living in both forests and towns. They were mostly helped by> Rakshasas, the predecessors of Yavanas.>> The word Rakshasa means one who protects. Hence, these people are> mostly meant for protecting the herds of cows as well as protecting> their masters. However, I do not think there was the concept of> private property in the strict sense of the word.>> There were commercial traders called Panis. While these people are> heavily into commercial trading, the agriculture was non existent> and at most, only done in wilderness and not in a systematic way.>> Indra, whose travel has been established from Iraq during the time> of great deluge, has come to introduce cultivation of rice andruler> ship. The purusha sukta describes the heavy fighting that tookplace> between the Gods (read the people of Indra) and the people who are> living in towns. The story of Vrita getting killed in the hands of> Indra is one such episode and occupies a prime place in RgVeda, The> society has undergone heavy changes, especially with thedevelopment> of such new concepts as private property and caste system. The same> story is retold as the episode of Prayag, wherein the King> sacrifices his body to Devas.>> More over, there are several knowledgeable people who came along> with Indra such as Kasyapa and perhaps , Brhspati. Certainly, this> kind of people has a hand in giving new direction to the sciences> already established in the Land of India.>> This was a time of consolidation of ancient knowledge, synthesis of> social forces and advent of new sciences. It is at this time that> the Jyotish was practically used for timing events of mundane> affairs, to start with, those connected with agriculture.>> Slowly, the Jyotish has found its way into the daily lives and> people started remembering the stars in which one was born, timing> the marriages and important Meta physical events such asCoronations> etc.>> Yet, even during the time of Sri Rama, people more depended upon> the Nimitta and sakuna (omens)than on astrology.>> But by the time of Mahabharat, there were several books werewritten> and the samhitas were innumerable in number and there were many> methodologies adopted in predicting and reading charts. It is Sage> Parasara who has been gracious enough to compile all the samhitas> into one book and have given the most authentic set of rules of> astrology for the posterity of mankind.>> So, at time you are talking of , Lord Krishna was already born and> Sage Parasara was older to Sri Krishna by 100 years or so.>> Hence, you are postponing the beginnings of astrology by several> thousands of years. More over, the name of Prgjyotishpur (and the> land of Kamrup, for which it was the capital) is connected withmore> of black magic but not with astrology.>> In any case, even if we agree on the lining of events as given> above, it is virtually impossible to find out when they have taken> place. Hence, it is virtually impossible to find out the beginning> of astrology in its present form also!>> Hope you will agree with me>> Kishore patnaik>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 4, 2006 Report Share Posted June 4, 2006 Dear sreenadh, Frankly speaking, I did not understand much of your mail. I am speaking of something and you seem to be speaking something entirely different. That Indra has come from Iraq during the great deluge is an irrefutable fact. THIS IS NOT ARYAN INVASION! but that Indra has tried to invade puras (hence, called Purandara) or that he has tried to kill successfully a brahmin kid like Vrtra who is also called Asura is also an irrefutable fact. That he has killed sachidevi's father, an Asura king, while Sachi is variously described as a brahmin lady is also given in the puranas. Thus, the later stories always described the people from same families(belonging to these times) either as brahmanic or as Asuric depending whether the story teller liked them or not. Thus, while the father of Vrtra is a brahmin, vrtra is an asura. Sachi is a brahmin, but her father who valiantly fought Indira to stop him from kidnapping her is an asura. So, in the pre caste days, the people who were described as brahmins later belonged to the sect of Asuras. The purusha suktam describes the fighting between devas and the establised society(read the townships or janapadas- purusha means the constiution of pura or the society of the towns) and how this society was made a mincemeat in a long long sacrifice(read war) to create a new society based on the four Varnas. The asuras became brahmins and the fighter followers of Indra turned out to be the ruler class or kstriyas; a conglomeration of panis from the vanquished society and the agriculturists from the society indra came to be called as Vaisyas and the rest of the people who are simply workers came to be called sudras. Now by the time of these changes, there were indeed Vedas and good amount of knowledge but not in the way they existed today. The changes in the society have changed the Vedas also and most of the sciences also have taken new shape. One of them is AStrology. As I have said, during the Vedic times, the astrology has concerned itself only with timing of ritualistic events. After the establishment of four fold society, the agriculture has set in and also, the population has incresed manifold. Thus, the agriculture needed to flourish and Jyotish was one of the tools to see that it flourished. Jyotisha has vividly described what kind of rains to expect(megha garbha sastra) depending upon the moment in which the clouds are " impregnated " . It also has started fixing muhurats for sowing the seeds and harvesting the growth. With the increase in population and number of trades and the flourishment of private property, the jyotish has slowly started telling one's fortunes. But this has taken place prior to the Ramayan times. No matter when Ramayan has taken place, it certainly precedes mahabharat(about 5000 years ago) and all the things I have talked in my earlier mail belonged to these times-pre varna days through mahabharat times. Whereas all the names, events and times (such as sayana, sangam age, indus valley period etc) you have mentioned belonged to much later times to mahabharat. And hence, there is no comparison. HOPE YOU WILL RECOGNISE THE DIFFERENCE IN WHAT I AM TALKING AND WHAT YOU ARE TALKING> Please call me soon after you reply this mail. Kishore patnaik , sree nadh <sreesog wrote: > > Dear Kishore ji, > Your message prompted me to have a re-look at the previous message by you. The primary reaction is – > * Such stories are not going to help. Due to the following reasons - > > 1) Astrology does not seems to have originated with Vedas, but much before than that. It was only stellar astrology and Tropical calendar that can find its firm root in Vedic system. The system we follow today has mostly a Tantric basis, may be the ruminants of Sindhu-Saraswathy civilization. The word Kalatantra the concept of Signs co-relating the degree-minute division of zodiac with Prana (breath) are all part of the Tantric system. > 2) The Rishi names in Vedas are indicative of the subject dealt with in the sloka and does not indicate persons. It is well accepted concept supported by Dayananta Saraswaty, Arya samajam, and many other scholars. There are ancient Sanskrit quotes that says the same as well. > 3) Except the Sayana bhashya (which was a interpretation of Vedas for the purpose of Yagas) we don't have even a single good translation/interpretation of Vedas, when it is stated in the Vedic literature it self that Adhibhouthika (worldly) –Adhidaivika (divine- assigning imaginary personalities)-Adhyatmika (spiritual) etc concept should be used for interpreting Vedas. We don't have a single interpretation of Vedas in these lines. There is another statement that the Vedas should be interpreted based on Shadangas - i.e. 6 branches of Vedas such as Astrology, (Jyotisha), Ethics and Laws (Kalpa) , Etymology (Nirukta), Phonetics (Siksha), Grammar (Vyakarana), Peotry (Jhanda). We don't have a single interpretation of Vedas in these lines as well. We should know the fact the Sayana Bhashaya actually helped in destroying the original meaning of Vedas, than to safe guard it. Only it is Yaska who tried to uphold the truth at least to a certain extend. Just think of the > stupid text " Karma vipakam " , an astrological text, by Sayana as well. That orthodox cast Brahmin nearly killed astrology as well! If you don't have " Karma vipakam " with you, just have a look at Prasnamarga, you will find some slokas from it in that text. > 4) How many of us know that " Agnimeele purohitam " (the first sloka of Rigveda) mainly deals with Grammar, and is speaking about the use of vowels? How many of us know that in Rigveda both Sidereal and tropical zodiac is distinguished and described? > 5) Don't think that every knowledge exists in Vedas, they contain just the seeds of most of the Indian knowledge branches. The science, maths and technology had grown far from that by now. > 6) There not even a single proof in support of Aryan Invasion Theory, except some misinterpreted Vedic slokas. If people like Chandrahari argue that those descriptions are rather related to celestial phenomenon and calendar controversy between vedic and non- vedic cultures, with supportive proof what would be your answer? > 7) Sidhu-Saraswathy civilization had provided large archeological evidences, where is the archeological evidence for a separate " Aryan " culture existed here?! (Or even a separate vedic culture, except the literature, can we show ruined buildings, places where Homas (Fire sacrifice) were conducted or the even the ruins of great palaces of epic kings?) The scenario we see before us is " history accepting stories, with out seeking or depending on Archeological evidences " ! What is the evidence provided by the Sidhu- Saraswathy culture says? Was the skeletons were of people of Dravidian origin!! No, it is not! What is story of newly found city under see near Bombay? It existed almost in the same period or prior to Mohanjadara and Harappa! If you argue it is not – then is there any archeological proof that it is related to vedic or epic culture? (Put literary proof aside for some time, the Vedas had already put us into enough confusion with there various misleading > interpretations, and not providing much archeological proof!) > 8) If we study the literature and (astrology, architecture, religion etc related) knowledgebase of Dravidian people in Sankham period (1st century AD), and compare it with Sidhu-Saraswathy and Vedic literature and knowledgebase, then it is easy to understand that – > · Sindhu-Saraswathy Civilization, Vedic civilization (?) and Dravidian Civilization are entirely different – even though much mix-up took place in the later period. > · Sindhu-Saraswathy Civilization was most scientifically advanced of the three and of the earliest origin. > · Dravidian civilization was the latest of the three, but it was the one later helped in the survival of most of ancient knowledgebase especially in the period of Arabic and English invasions, may be due to geographical and cultural factors. > · The names of ancient gods worshiped in nether north or south of India have little in common with the Vedic gods, even though later the local concepts of various gods got merged with some half vedic puranic gods. > · The contributions of Jain and Buddha schools of thought that existed almost from Vedic period can not be neglected, and they were almost like a separate culture, similar to Dravidian or Vedic. This makes the differentiation of culture and religion very difficult. These streams should be valued and given due place in the history and knowledgebase we posses, let it be astrology or vastu or any other subject. > 9) If the Sidhu-Saraswathy people were this much advanced in architecture (vastu) do you think they were unaware of mathematics, astrology, yoga etc, when there is direct evidence (as told by historians and archeologists) for the continuous continuation of several of that practices (bricks, type of jewelries, pots etc) even today? > 10) Why there is not a language link between Sindhu-Saraswathy civilization and Sanskrit? The Sindhu-Saraswathy civilization is supposed to have used a language without swara chinhas (symols indicating vowel sounds). And in the Indian subcontinent now there is almost not even a single language that exist this characteristics including Sanskrit! In my limited knowledge the only such language I know is English, (there could many others as well I am not an expert on such subjects), but I am not fool enough to co-related the language of Sindhu-Saraswathy civilization in any way to English which is one of 5th or 10th century origin (I don't know, when English originated). Do you have any clue, why the language of Sidhu- Saraswathy civilization lacks Swara chinhas while in Sanskrit it is used in plenty? > 11) Why vedic gods got discarded so easily, when the non-vedic gods continued exist (or get mixed with the popular religion), and still the Vedic-literature held its place? What is the knowledge base and power that helped the Tantric system to survive and even merge the vedic stream into it?! As you know all the temples exists today are the products of Tantric system and not part of vedic culture! Vedas are " used by " the Tantrics and the popular majority to safeguard there original beliefs! Even though much mixing took place, the original system survived and the vedic system got merged into it! Take religion, astrology, medicine, or any other subject – it is a fact, we can find! > 12) If we don't know answer to many questions, then it is better to go up to there are say – rest I don't know, than making stories > 13) The last but the most important statement is – It is completely wrong to make stories with conducting an extensive research study on the subject. It is a violation of learning and research principles! Even after study, baseless story making should be avoided. > 14) We are astrologers and better talk about the subject we know, rather than start doing story making for history. The historians (they are already hysterical) are doing that for long, and still teaching wrong stories. ) The condition of the study of history is so pathetic in our country that, even a History post graduate (MA) does not know how to read an ancient script, or how to protect a Palmyra leaf, or how to collect archeological evidences, or the worst even the outlines or system used by his own subject! Hurah…! To all…! ) > > P.S: There could be many more reasons listed, as I am supporter of Asuras (Tantrics) as well. Yap, similar to the fact that I am a supporter of Vedic, Jain, Budha, Dravidian and all other available type of knowledge streams in ancient India. > Love, > Sreenadh > > > kishore mohan <kishore_future wrote: I wish there is a person who is good enuf in History in the group who > could have commented on my post on para to para basis. > > K > > , sree nadh > wrote: > > > > Dear Kishore ji, > > Read the full message first! I have never argued that astrology > originated in that period or that that planetory position was > important! I have clearly stated it at the end of the mail ! > > I was given only to indicate that, planetory position as > indicated by Moolatrikona could actually occur. > > ==> > > > The ancient science of astrology has its origins in times much > > > earlier than what you have indicated. > > <== > > I know that, agree to it completly. But you should know that > JHora full version allows chart calculation only upto BC 5400, and I > was looking for a planetory position that fullfills Moolatrikona > planetory position at least to an extend, as just part of research. > It is not even necessory that such planetory position has any > relation with the origin of astrological system. That too I have > stated at the end of the mail. But you was impatiant, even to read it > till the end. No worries - it is ok. > > Love, > > Sreenadh > > > > kishore mohan wrote: > > Dear Shreenadh, > > > > Once it is said Most Indians are knowledgeable, spiritual and > > intellectual but when it comes to History, they act most ridiculous > > and gross. > > > > The ancient science of astrology has its origins in times much > > earlier than what you have indicated. > > > > The Origins of astrology have started with the Jyotish, the Vedang. > > In Vedic times, they were mostly concerned with timing the vedic > > events such as Rituals and festivals. > > > > In the very old days, there were only Brahmins in this society and > > they were also called Asuras. They were mostly cow rearing people > > living in both forests and towns. They were mostly helped by > > Rakshasas, the predecessors of Yavanas. > > > > The word Rakshasa means one who protects. Hence, these people are > > mostly meant for protecting the herds of cows as well as protecting > > their masters. However, I do not think there was the concept of > > private property in the strict sense of the word. > > > > There were commercial traders called Panis. While these people are > > heavily into commercial trading, the agriculture was non existent > > and at most, only done in wilderness and not in a systematic way. > > > > Indra, whose travel has been established from Iraq during the time > > of great deluge, has come to introduce cultivation of rice and > ruler > > ship. The purusha sukta describes the heavy fighting that took > place > > between the Gods (read the people of Indra) and the people who are > > living in towns. The story of Vrita getting killed in the hands of > > Indra is one such episode and occupies a prime place in RgVeda, The > > society has undergone heavy changes, especially with the > development > > of such new concepts as private property and caste system. The same > > story is retold as the episode of Prayag, wherein the King > > sacrifices his body to Devas. > > > > More over, there are several knowledgeable people who came along > > with Indra such as Kasyapa and perhaps , Brhspati. Certainly, this > > kind of people has a hand in giving new direction to the sciences > > already established in the Land of India. > > > > This was a time of consolidation of ancient knowledge, synthesis of > > social forces and advent of new sciences. It is at this time that > > the Jyotish was practically used for timing events of mundane > > affairs, to start with, those connected with agriculture. > > > > Slowly, the Jyotish has found its way into the daily lives and > > people started remembering the stars in which one was born, timing > > the marriages and important Meta physical events such as > Coronations > > etc. > > > > Yet, even during the time of Sri Rama, people more depended upon > > the Nimitta and sakuna (omens)than on astrology. > > > > But by the time of Mahabharat, there were several books were > written > > and the samhitas were innumerable in number and there were many > > methodologies adopted in predicting and reading charts. It is Sage > > Parasara who has been gracious enough to compile all the samhitas > > into one book and have given the most authentic set of rules of > > astrology for the posterity of mankind. > > > > So, at time you are talking of , Lord Krishna was already born and > > Sage Parasara was older to Sri Krishna by 100 years or so. > > > > Hence, you are postponing the beginnings of astrology by several > > thousands of years. More over, the name of Prgjyotishpur (and the > > land of Kamrup, for which it was the capital) is connected with > more > > of black magic but not with astrology. > > > > In any case, even if we agree on the lining of events as given > > above, it is virtually impossible to find out when they have taken > > place. Hence, it is virtually impossible to find out the beginning > > of astrology in its present form also! > > > > Hope you will agree with me > > > > Kishore patnaik > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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