Guest guest Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 Dear Sreenadh , When I wrote a reply to Kishen Kaul,I meant No offence to him. I just suggested to verify the meaning of " Parashara " with a learned Sanskrit scholar, since I understand that one meaning attributed to " Parashara' is " The Liberated one " , that means , Parashara can never be a single person & BPHS may be a contribution of several realised souls . Unfortunately , he was finding fault with my English. I could clearly make out his sarcastic note of my English. I was under the presumption that the list was meant for learning Jyotish. Now I realise it is for learning flowery English Language. I know Kishen Kaul and his known hostility to Nirayana Zodiac .If I recollect correctly, VSK reviewed his ephemeris, years back . Anyway, I am sure , as Mohan or in some other alias he will return to vent his spite. I don't have the Time to fight neither I wish to be the target of someone in nomdeplume . Once I left your list but returned ,as desired by you, Kumar and some other members who are my friends. I don't want to be a disruptive influence in your list . I am sure the list will progress to new horizon ,under your able guidance All the Best Signing off Madhu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 Namaste Sri MadhuI have had discussions with Sri Kaul and his belief system. I did not agree to it and still call Vedic Astrology as Vedic only. He uses sarcasm and calls names to those who does not agree to his thinking. He is trying to force his way around in proving all others are wrong. He has done so in various lists. In fact, Sri Windhall wrote an excellent reply to his contentions, to which he did not reply. Another such a character is Mohan Jyotishi. There is no point discussing things with them. They are no one to determine whether Astrology is Vedic or not. I am born to the culture and shall call it Vedic, including astrology. You need not leave group and help serve their purpose. Rather stay and enjoy their mostly baseless contentions. Thanks and RegardsBharatOn 6/15/07, Balagurusurya <balagurusurya wrote: Dear Sreenadh , When I wrote a reply to Kishen Kaul,I meant No offence to him. I just suggested to verify the meaning of " Parashara " with a learned Sanskrit scholar, since I understand that one meaning attributed to " Parashara' is " The Liberated one " , that means , Parashara can never be a single person & BPHS may be a contribution of several realised souls . Unfortunately , he was finding fault with my English. I could clearly make out his sarcastic note of my English. I was under the presumption that the list was meant for learning Jyotish. Now I realise it is for learning flowery English Language. I know Kishen Kaul and his known hostility to Nirayana Zodiac .If I recollect correctly, VSK reviewed his ephemeris, years back . Anyway, I am sure , as Mohan or in some other alias he will return to vent his spite. I don't have the Time to fight neither I wish to be the target of someone in nomdeplume . Once I left your list but returned ,as desired by you, Kumar and some other members who are my friends. I don't want to be a disruptive influence in your list . I am sure the list will progress to new horizon ,under your able guidance All the Best Signing off Madhu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 Dear Madhu ji, Please don't leave the group. ==> > I just suggested to verify the meaning of " Parashara " with a > learned Sanskrit scholar, since I understand that one meaning > attributed to " Parashara' is " The Liberated one " , that means , > Parashara can never be a single person & BPHS may be a contribution > of several realised souls . <== That meaning and point in the message was not even clear to me! Thanks for the info. ==> > I was under the presumption that the list was meant for learning > Jyotish. <== It is so and will be - please don't feel otherwise. ==> > I don't have the Time to fight neither I wish to > be the target of someone in nomdeplume . > Once I left your list but returned ,as desired by you, Kumar and > some other members who are my friends. > I don't want to be a disruptive influence in your list . > I am sure the list will progress to new horizon ,under your able > guidance <== Dear Madhu ji, this is not acceptable!! Please comeback and be proud contributor. Please don't make me blush. Love, Sreenadh , " Balagurusurya " <balagurusurya wrote: > > Dear Sreenadh , > When I wrote a reply to Kishen Kaul,I meant No offence to him. > I just suggested to verify the meaning of " Parashara " with a > learned Sanskrit scholar, since I understand that one meaning > attributed to " Parashara' is " The Liberated one " , that means , > Parashara can never be a single person & BPHS may be a contribution > of several realised souls . > Unfortunately , he was finding fault with my English. I could > clearly make out his sarcastic note of my English. > I was under the presumption that the list was meant for learning > Jyotish. Now I realise it is for learning flowery English Language. I > know Kishen Kaul and his known hostility to Nirayana Zodiac .If I > recollect correctly, VSK reviewed his ephemeris, years back . > > Anyway, I am sure , as Mohan or in some other alias he will return to > vent his spite. I don't have the Time to fight neither I wish to > be the target of someone in nomdeplume . > > Once I left your list but returned ,as desired by you, Kumar and > some other members who are my friends. > > I don't want to be a disruptive influence in your list . > I am sure the list will progress to new horizon ,under your able > guidance > All the Best > Signing off > > Madhu > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 Dear Bharat ji, " Sri Kaul and his belief system " => That is cute terminology. ==> > He uses sarcasm and calls names to those who does not agree to his > thinking. <== That is not good - if he does so. ==> > He is trying to force his way around in proving all > others are wrong. <== That is quite natural for a scholar - and he is I assure. ==> > Another such a character is Mohan Jyotishi. <== Are they two different characters; or just another id of Kaul itself? ==> > You need not leave group and help serve their purpose. Rather stay > and enjoy their mostly baseless contentions. <== I agree to the first statement and stand by the same. But would disagree to the second, since Kaul's arguments also has some supportive evidence, like a person seeing a 2 colored kite from only one side. The truth is both Sayana and Nirayana system existed in Vedic period, and also that Nirayana system of astrology is more of Tantric origin than of Vedic. But let us not fight over terminology but rather search the fruits of it, so that it would be of some use to us. Love, Sreenadh , " Bharat Hindu Astrology " <hinduastrology wrote: > > Namaste Sri Madhu > > I have had discussions with Sri Kaul and his belief system. I did not agree > to it and still call Vedic Astrology as Vedic only. He uses sarcasm and > calls names to those who does not agree to his thinking. He is trying to > force his way around in proving all others are wrong. He has done so in > various lists. In fact, Sri Windhall wrote an excellent reply to his > contentions, to which he did not reply. > > Another such a character is Mohan Jyotishi. There is no point discussing > things with them. They are no one to determine whether Astrology is Vedic or > not. I am born to the culture and shall call it Vedic, including astrology. > > You need not leave group and help serve their purpose. Rather stay and enjoy > their mostly baseless contentions. > > Thanks and Regards > Bharat > > On 6/15/07, Balagurusurya <balagurusurya wrote: > > > > Dear Sreenadh , > > When I wrote a reply to Kishen Kaul,I meant No offence to him. > > I just suggested to verify the meaning of " Parashara " with a > > learned Sanskrit scholar, since I understand that one meaning > > attributed to " Parashara' is " The Liberated one " , that means , > > Parashara can never be a single person & BPHS may be a contribution > > of several realised souls . > > Unfortunately , he was finding fault with my English. I could > > clearly make out his sarcastic note of my English. > > I was under the presumption that the list was meant for learning > > Jyotish. Now I realise it is for learning flowery English Language. I > > know Kishen Kaul and his known hostility to Nirayana Zodiac .If I > > recollect correctly, VSK reviewed his ephemeris, years back . > > > > Anyway, I am sure , as Mohan or in some other alias he will return to > > vent his spite. I don't have the Time to fight neither I wish to > > be the target of someone in nomdeplume . > > > > Once I left your list but returned ,as desired by you, Kumar and > > some other members who are my friends. > > > > I don't want to be a disruptive influence in your list . > > I am sure the list will progress to new horizon ,under your able > > guidance > > All the Best > > Signing off > > > > Madhu > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 Hi Madhu ji, Namaskar! There is a shloka in the Gita that reads " Bhayad ranad uparatam mansyante tvam maharathah, yesham cha tvam bahumato bhootva yasyasi laghavam " To the best of my " poor Sanskrit knowledge " it should mean: " O Arjuna, if you leave the battle field (even out of pity on your antagonists) it will be presumed that you have done so out of fear! Those who hold you in high esteem will also look down upon you " . As such, let us continue to have a debate -- why leave in a huff! Dhanyavad AKK , " Balagurusurya " <balagurusurya wrote: > > Dear Sreenadh , > When I wrote a reply to Kishen Kaul,I meant No offence to him. > I just suggested to verify the meaning of " Parashara " with a > learned Sanskrit scholar, since I understand that one meaning > attributed to " Parashara' is " The Liberated one " , that means , > Parashara can never be a single person & BPHS may be a contribution > of several realised souls . > Unfortunately , he was finding fault with my English. I could > clearly make out his sarcastic note of my English. > I was under the presumption that the list was meant for learning > Jyotish. Now I realise it is for learning flowery English Language. I > know Kishen Kaul and his known hostility to Nirayana Zodiac .If I > recollect correctly, VSK reviewed his ephemeris, years back . > > Anyway, I am sure , as Mohan or in some other alias he will return to > vent his spite. I don't have the Time to fight neither I wish to > be the target of someone in nomdeplume . > > Once I left your list but returned ,as desired by you, Kumar and > some other members who are my friends. > > I don't want to be a disruptive influence in your list . > I am sure the list will progress to new horizon ,under your able > guidance > All the Best > Signing off > > Madhu > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 Namaste Sri SreenadhForcing a concept down the throat is not the way of a Scholar. Nor does a Scholar is one who has such a closed mind, who cannot accept that views other than his own can exist. There a vast difference between a true scholar who pursues knowledge knowing that Ignorance is so vast that he better be humble. By giving useless logic and wrong translations and without answering any queries, one does not become a Scholar.I reserve my judgment about this person and his " lookalikes " :)Thanks and Regards BharatOn 6/15/07, Sreenadh <sreesog wrote: Dear Bharat ji, " Sri Kaul and his belief system " => That is cute terminology. ==> > He uses sarcasm and calls names to those who does not agree to his > thinking. <== That is not good - if he does so. ==> > He is trying to force his way around in proving all > others are wrong. <== That is quite natural for a scholar - and he is I assure. ==> > Another such a character is Mohan Jyotishi. <== Are they two different characters; or just another id of Kaul itself? ==> > You need not leave group and help serve their purpose. Rather stay > and enjoy their mostly baseless contentions. <== I agree to the first statement and stand by the same. But would disagree to the second, since Kaul's arguments also has some supportive evidence, like a person seeing a 2 colored kite from only one side. The truth is both Sayana and Nirayana system existed in Vedic period, and also that Nirayana system of astrology is more of Tantric origin than of Vedic. But let us not fight over terminology but rather search the fruits of it, so that it would be of some use to us. Love, Sreenadh , " Bharat Hindu Astrology " <hinduastrology wrote: > > Namaste Sri Madhu > > I have had discussions with Sri Kaul and his belief system. I did not agree > to it and still call Vedic Astrology as Vedic only. He uses sarcasm and > calls names to those who does not agree to his thinking. He is trying to > force his way around in proving all others are wrong. He has done so in > various lists. In fact, Sri Windhall wrote an excellent reply to his > contentions, to which he did not reply. > > Another such a character is Mohan Jyotishi. There is no point discussing > things with them. They are no one to determine whether Astrology is Vedic or > not. I am born to the culture and shall call it Vedic, including astrology. > > You need not leave group and help serve their purpose. Rather stay and enjoy > their mostly baseless contentions. > > Thanks and Regards > Bharat > > On 6/15/07, Balagurusurya <balagurusurya wrote: > > > > Dear Sreenadh , > > When I wrote a reply to Kishen Kaul,I meant No offence to him. > > I just suggested to verify the meaning of " Parashara " with a > > learned Sanskrit scholar, since I understand that one meaning > > attributed to " Parashara' is " The Liberated one " , that means , > > Parashara can never be a single person & BPHS may be a contribution > > of several realised souls . > > Unfortunately , he was finding fault with my English. I could > > clearly make out his sarcastic note of my English. > > I was under the presumption that the list was meant for learning > > Jyotish. Now I realise it is for learning flowery English Language. I > > know Kishen Kaul and his known hostility to Nirayana Zodiac .If I > > recollect correctly, VSK reviewed his ephemeris, years back . > > > > Anyway, I am sure , as Mohan or in some other alias he will return to > > vent his spite. I don't have the Time to fight neither I wish to > > be the target of someone in nomdeplume . > > > > Once I left your list but returned ,as desired by you, Kumar and > > some other members who are my friends. > > > > I don't want to be a disruptive influence in your list . > > I am sure the list will progress to new horizon ,under your able > > guidance > > All the Best > > Signing off > > > > Madhu > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 16, 2007 Report Share Posted June 16, 2007 Shri Bharat ji, Namaskar! First of all I must congratulate Shri Sreemadhji for keeping the posts on this forum unmoderated! It needs really an open mind to do so! Now coming to your points: I have never asked anyone to agree with me or even disagree with me, for that matter. In a democracy, anybody is at liberty to cherish any system for being fleeced by charlatans or fleecing others! I am no cop, please rest assured! The problem arises only when we say that these gimmicks of predictions are based on the Vedas and have been revealed by Rishis like Prashara and Brighu etc. etc. Naturally, anybody making such claims will have to substantiate them with chapter and verse and not just go on repeating " Jyotish is Vedic " , " Jyotish is based on what Maharshi Prashara has said " and so on and so forth! Kindly go through all the files that I have uploaded on this forum and do give a point by point reply. If you take time out to peruse them patiently (Koshur6), you will see that I was sailing in the same boat as you are sailing today! In other words, I was a more stauch " nirayana astrologer " for quite a few years than nyybody else! Later on, with equal vehemence, I becamse a firm believer in " Sayana Vedic astrology " for several years! Since nobody, including the " Vedic jyotishis " themselves, whether sayana or nirayana, has as yet been able to pinpoint the existence of Mesha, Vrisha etc. astrological rashis, leave alone sayana or nirayana, in any of the Vedas or the Vedanga Jyotisha or the Yajur Jyotisha or even Atharva Jyotisha, obviously, we have been taken for a ride for quite some time by such charlatans as claim that the Vedas talk of nothing else but predictive gimmicks! It may perhaps be a " revelation " to you that we do not find any mention of the much dreaded Mangal and Shani either in any of the Vedas or any of the Vedic astronomical works! I wonder whether you know that except for Maya the mlechha's Surya Sidhanta, no other sidhanta of even the Panchasidhantika refers to any Rashis or Mangal, Shani etc. planets even by mistake! To crown it all, the Surya Sidhanta of Panchasidhantika is the most inaccurate astronomical work that could have been produced by anybody! Ironically, Varahamihira found that very Surya Sidhanta to be the most accurate - spashta taro savitrah! Varahamhira is supposed to have been the greatest Indian astrologer of all times! Naturally, if someone can make correct predictions from incorrect data, he certainly is a charlatan than anything else! Thus you can say that " Varahamihira was the greatest charlatan of Indian astrology of all times " . There was a genetleman in twentieth century also who could make coorect predictions about " notable horoscopes " with incorrect data. He was also known as the greatest Vedic astrologer of the twentieth century! That much for Indian astrology! Dhanyavad. , " Bharat Hindu Astrology " <hinduastrology wrote: > > Namaste Sri Sreenadh > > Forcing a concept down the throat is not the way of a Scholar. Nor does a > Scholar is one who has such a closed mind, who cannot accept that views > other than his own can exist. There a vast difference between a true scholar > who pursues knowledge knowing that Ignorance is so vast that he better be > humble. > > By giving useless logic and wrong translations and without answering any > queries, one does not become a Scholar. > > I reserve my judgment about this person and his " lookalikes " > > Thanks and Regards > Bharat > > On 6/15/07, Sreenadh <sreesog wrote: > > > > Dear Bharat ji, > > " Sri Kaul and his belief system " => That is cute terminology. > > ==> > > > He uses sarcasm and calls names to those who does not agree to his > > > thinking. > > <== > > That is not good - if he does so. > > ==> > > > He is trying to force his way around in proving all > > > others are wrong. > > <== > > That is quite natural for a scholar - and he is I assure. > > > > ==> > > > Another such a character is Mohan Jyotishi. > > <== > > Are they two different characters; or just another id of Kaul itself? > > > > ==> > > > You need not leave group and help serve their purpose. Rather stay > > > and enjoy their mostly baseless contentions. > > <== > > > > I agree to the first statement and stand by the same. But would > > disagree to the second, since Kaul's arguments also has some > > supportive evidence, like a person seeing a 2 colored kite from only > > one side. The truth is both Sayana and Nirayana system existed in > > Vedic period, and also that Nirayana system of astrology is more of > > Tantric origin than of Vedic. But let us not fight over terminology > > but rather search the fruits of it, so that it would be of some use > > to us. > > Love, > > Sreenadh > > > > --- In <% 40>, > > " Bharat Hindu > > Astrology " <hinduastrology@> wrote: > > > > > > Namaste Sri Madhu > > > > > > I have had discussions with Sri Kaul and his belief system. I did > > not agree > > > to it and still call Vedic Astrology as Vedic only. He uses sarcasm > > and > > > calls names to those who does not agree to his thinking. He is > > trying to > > > force his way around in proving all others are wrong. He has done > > so in > > > various lists. In fact, Sri Windhall wrote an excellent reply to his > > > contentions, to which he did not reply. > > > > > > Another such a character is Mohan Jyotishi. There is no point > > discussing > > > things with them. They are no one to determine whether Astrology is > > Vedic or > > > not. I am born to the culture and shall call it Vedic, including > > astrology. > > > > > > You need not leave group and help serve their purpose. Rather stay > > and enjoy > > > their mostly baseless contentions. > > > > > > Thanks and Regards > > > Bharat > > > > > > On 6/15/07, Balagurusurya <balagurusurya@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Sreenadh , > > > > When I wrote a reply to Kishen Kaul,I meant No offence to him. > > > > I just suggested to verify the meaning of " Parashara " with a > > > > learned Sanskrit scholar, since I understand that one meaning > > > > attributed to " Parashara' is " The Liberated one " , that means , > > > > Parashara can never be a single person & BPHS may be a > > contribution > > > > of several realised souls . > > > > Unfortunately , he was finding fault with my English. I could > > > > clearly make out his sarcastic note of my English. > > > > I was under the presumption that the list was meant for learning > > > > Jyotish. Now I realise it is for learning flowery English > > Language. I > > > > know Kishen Kaul and his known hostility to Nirayana Zodiac .If I > > > > recollect correctly, VSK reviewed his ephemeris, years back . > > > > > > > > Anyway, I am sure , as Mohan or in some other alias he will > > return to > > > > vent his spite. I don't have the Time to fight neither I wish to > > > > be the target of someone in nomdeplume . > > > > > > > > Once I left your list but returned ,as desired by you, Kumar and > > > > some other members who are my friends. > > > > > > > > I don't want to be a disruptive influence in your list . > > > > I am sure the list will progress to new horizon ,under your able > > > > guidance > > > > All the Best > > > > Signing off > > > > > > > > Madhu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 16, 2007 Report Share Posted June 16, 2007 Dear Bharat ji, ==> There a vast difference between a true scholar who pursues knowledge knowing that Ignorance is so vast that he better be humble. <== I agree. ==> Forcing a concept down the throat is not the way of a Scholar. Nor does a Scholar is one who has such a closed mind, who cannot accept that views other than his own can exist. <== hmmm... I don't think that Kaul ji is so. Let us wait and see. Regards, Sreenadh , " Bharat Hindu Astrology " <hinduastrology wrote: > > Namaste Sri Sreenadh > > Forcing a concept down the throat is not the way of a Scholar. Nor does a > Scholar is one who has such a closed mind, who cannot accept that views > other than his own can exist. There a vast difference between a true scholar > who pursues knowledge knowing that Ignorance is so vast that he better be > humble. > > By giving useless logic and wrong translations and without answering any > queries, one does not become a Scholar. > > I reserve my judgment about this person and his " lookalikes " > > Thanks and Regards > Bharat > > On 6/15/07, Sreenadh <sreesog wrote: > > > > Dear Bharat ji, > > " Sri Kaul and his belief system " => That is cute terminology. > > ==> > > > He uses sarcasm and calls names to those who does not agree to his > > > thinking. > > <== > > That is not good - if he does so. > > ==> > > > He is trying to force his way around in proving all > > > others are wrong. > > <== > > That is quite natural for a scholar - and he is I assure. > > > > ==> > > > Another such a character is Mohan Jyotishi. > > <== > > Are they two different characters; or just another id of Kaul itself? > > > > ==> > > > You need not leave group and help serve their purpose. Rather stay > > > and enjoy their mostly baseless contentions. > > <== > > > > I agree to the first statement and stand by the same. But would > > disagree to the second, since Kaul's arguments also has some > > supportive evidence, like a person seeing a 2 colored kite from only > > one side. The truth is both Sayana and Nirayana system existed in > > Vedic period, and also that Nirayana system of astrology is more of > > Tantric origin than of Vedic. But let us not fight over terminology > > but rather search the fruits of it, so that it would be of some use > > to us. > > Love, > > Sreenadh > > > > --- In <% 40>, > > " Bharat Hindu > > Astrology " <hinduastrology@> wrote: > > > > > > Namaste Sri Madhu > > > > > > I have had discussions with Sri Kaul and his belief system. I did > > not agree > > > to it and still call Vedic Astrology as Vedic only. He uses sarcasm > > and > > > calls names to those who does not agree to his thinking. He is > > trying to > > > force his way around in proving all others are wrong. He has done > > so in > > > various lists. In fact, Sri Windhall wrote an excellent reply to his > > > contentions, to which he did not reply. > > > > > > Another such a character is Mohan Jyotishi. There is no point > > discussing > > > things with them. They are no one to determine whether Astrology is > > Vedic or > > > not. I am born to the culture and shall call it Vedic, including > > astrology. > > > > > > You need not leave group and help serve their purpose. Rather stay > > and enjoy > > > their mostly baseless contentions. > > > > > > Thanks and Regards > > > Bharat > > > > > > On 6/15/07, Balagurusurya <balagurusurya@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Sreenadh , > > > > When I wrote a reply to Kishen Kaul,I meant No offence to him. > > > > I just suggested to verify the meaning of " Parashara " with a > > > > learned Sanskrit scholar, since I understand that one meaning > > > > attributed to " Parashara' is " The Liberated one " , that means , > > > > Parashara can never be a single person & BPHS may be a > > contribution > > > > of several realised souls . > > > > Unfortunately , he was finding fault with my English. I could > > > > clearly make out his sarcastic note of my English. > > > > I was under the presumption that the list was meant for learning > > > > Jyotish. Now I realise it is for learning flowery English > > Language. I > > > > know Kishen Kaul and his known hostility to Nirayana Zodiac .If I > > > > recollect correctly, VSK reviewed his ephemeris, years back . > > > > > > > > Anyway, I am sure , as Mohan or in some other alias he will > > return to > > > > vent his spite. I don't have the Time to fight neither I wish to > > > > be the target of someone in nomdeplume . > > > > > > > > Once I left your list but returned ,as desired by you, Kumar and > > > > some other members who are my friends. > > > > > > > > I don't want to be a disruptive influence in your list . > > > > I am sure the list will progress to new horizon ,under your able > > > > guidance > > > > All the Best > > > > Signing off > > > > > > > > Madhu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 16, 2007 Report Share Posted June 16, 2007 Dear Kaul ji, ==> Kindly go through all the files that I have uploaded on this forum and do give a point by point reply. <== No body has that much free time in this busy era. Bharat is a business man and me an IT professional - there is much work to do. So please don't insist, or force others to do work just to reply " ALL " your queries. Of course in relaxed mood everything gets discussed bit by bit - that is ok. As much you are convinced about the path you took, others would be as convinced about their path as well. Proofs, Arguments - everybody have it; even though others will accept it or not is another question. So let us be open and accept the views of others - and let people be valued for what they are - and their uniqueness. Discussions are good because they cause new knowledge to pour in. So please be polite, slow. Even with mild and humble language we can expose the absurdities and support the truth - right? Note: This goes for all. Please avoid personal criticisms, whether it is about living individuals or those in heaven or hell (if they exist): Especially if possibly gone there in recent past. Let us not start a new argument on the same. We have our lives to live, and what we do with that is more important. Love, Sreenadh , " Avtar Krishen Kaul " <a_krishen wrote: > > Shri Bharat ji, > Namaskar! > > First of all I must congratulate Shri Sreemadhji for keeping the > posts on this forum unmoderated! It needs really an open mind to do > so! > Now coming to your points: > I have never asked anyone to agree with me or even disagree with me, > for that matter. In a democracy, anybody is at liberty to cherish > any system for being fleeced by charlatans or fleecing others! I am > no cop, please rest assured! The problem arises only when we say > that these gimmicks of predictions are based on the Vedas and have > been revealed by Rishis like Prashara and Brighu etc. etc. > Naturally, anybody making such claims will have to substantiate them > with chapter and verse and not just go on repeating " Jyotish is > Vedic " , " Jyotish is based on what Maharshi Prashara has said " and so > on and so forth! > Kindly go through all the files that I have uploaded on this forum > and do give a point by point reply. If you take time out to peruse > them patiently (Koshur6), you will see that I was sailing in the > same boat as you are sailing today! In other words, I was a more > stauch " nirayana astrologer " for quite a few years than nyybody > else! Later on, with equal vehemence, I becamse a firm believer > in " Sayana Vedic astrology " for several years! Since nobody, > including the " Vedic jyotishis " themselves, whether sayana or > nirayana, has as yet been able to pinpoint the existence of Mesha, > Vrisha etc. astrological rashis, leave alone sayana or nirayana, in > any of the Vedas or the Vedanga Jyotisha or the Yajur Jyotisha or > even Atharva Jyotisha, obviously, we have been taken for a ride for > quite some time by such charlatans as claim that the Vedas talk of > nothing else but predictive gimmicks! > It may perhaps be a " revelation " to you that we do not find any > mention of the much dreaded Mangal and Shani either in any of the > Vedas or any of the Vedic astronomical works! I wonder whether you > know that except for Maya the mlechha's Surya Sidhanta, no other > sidhanta of even the Panchasidhantika refers to any Rashis or > Mangal, Shani etc. planets even by mistake! To crown it all, the > Surya Sidhanta of Panchasidhantika is the most inaccurate > astronomical work that could have been produced by anybody! > Ironically, Varahamihira found that very Surya Sidhanta to be the > most accurate - spashta taro savitrah! Varahamhira is supposed to > have been the greatest Indian astrologer of all times! Naturally, > if someone can make correct predictions from incorrect data, he > certainly is a charlatan than anything else! Thus you can say > that " Varahamihira was the greatest charlatan of Indian astrology of > all times " . There was a genetleman in twentieth century also who > could make coorect predictions about " notable horoscopes " with > incorrect data. He was also known as the greatest Vedic astrologer > of the twentieth century! That much for Indian astrology! > Dhanyavad. > , " Bharat Hindu > Astrology " <hinduastrology@> wrote: > > > > Namaste Sri Sreenadh > > > > Forcing a concept down the throat is not the way of a Scholar. Nor > does a > > Scholar is one who has such a closed mind, who cannot accept that > views > > other than his own can exist. There a vast difference between a > true scholar > > who pursues knowledge knowing that Ignorance is so vast that he > better be > > humble. > > > > By giving useless logic and wrong translations and without > answering any > > queries, one does not become a Scholar. > > > > I reserve my judgment about this person and his " lookalikes " > > > > Thanks and Regards > > Bharat > > > > On 6/15/07, Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Bharat ji, > > > " Sri Kaul and his belief system " => That is cute terminology. > > > ==> > > > > He uses sarcasm and calls names to those who does not agree to > his > > > > thinking. > > > <== > > > That is not good - if he does so. > > > ==> > > > > He is trying to force his way around in proving all > > > > others are wrong. > > > <== > > > That is quite natural for a scholar - and he is I assure. > > > > > > ==> > > > > Another such a character is Mohan Jyotishi. > > > <== > > > Are they two different characters; or just another id of Kaul > itself? > > > > > > ==> > > > > You need not leave group and help serve their purpose. Rather > stay > > > > and enjoy their mostly baseless contentions. > > > <== > > > > > > I agree to the first statement and stand by the same. But would > > > disagree to the second, since Kaul's arguments also has some > > > supportive evidence, like a person seeing a 2 colored kite from > only > > > one side. The truth is both Sayana and Nirayana system existed in > > > Vedic period, and also that Nirayana system of astrology is more > of > > > Tantric origin than of Vedic. But let us not fight over > terminology > > > but rather search the fruits of it, so that it would be of some > use > > > to us. > > > Love, > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > --- In > <% > 40>, > > > " Bharat Hindu > > > Astrology " <hinduastrology@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Namaste Sri Madhu > > > > > > > > I have had discussions with Sri Kaul and his belief system. I > did > > > not agree > > > > to it and still call Vedic Astrology as Vedic only. He uses > sarcasm > > > and > > > > calls names to those who does not agree to his thinking. He is > > > trying to > > > > force his way around in proving all others are wrong. He has > done > > > so in > > > > various lists. In fact, Sri Windhall wrote an excellent reply > to his > > > > contentions, to which he did not reply. > > > > > > > > Another such a character is Mohan Jyotishi. There is no point > > > discussing > > > > things with them. They are no one to determine whether > Astrology is > > > Vedic or > > > > not. I am born to the culture and shall call it Vedic, > including > > > astrology. > > > > > > > > You need not leave group and help serve their purpose. Rather > stay > > > and enjoy > > > > their mostly baseless contentions. > > > > > > > > Thanks and Regards > > > > Bharat > > > > > > > > On 6/15/07, Balagurusurya <balagurusurya@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sreenadh , > > > > > When I wrote a reply to Kishen Kaul,I meant No offence to > him. > > > > > I just suggested to verify the meaning of " Parashara " with > a > > > > > learned Sanskrit scholar, since I understand that one meaning > > > > > attributed to " Parashara' is " The Liberated one " , that > means , > > > > > Parashara can never be a single person & BPHS may be a > > > contribution > > > > > of several realised souls . > > > > > Unfortunately , he was finding fault with my English. I could > > > > > clearly make out his sarcastic note of my English. > > > > > I was under the presumption that the list was meant for > learning > > > > > Jyotish. Now I realise it is for learning flowery English > > > Language. I > > > > > know Kishen Kaul and his known hostility to Nirayana > Zodiac .If I > > > > > recollect correctly, VSK reviewed his ephemeris, years back . > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, I am sure , as Mohan or in some other alias he will > > > return to > > > > > vent his spite. I don't have the Time to fight neither I > wish to > > > > > be the target of someone in nomdeplume . > > > > > > > > > > Once I left your list but returned ,as desired by you, Kumar > and > > > > > some other members who are my friends. > > > > > > > > > > I don't want to be a disruptive influence in your list . > > > > > I am sure the list will progress to new horizon ,under your > able > > > > > guidance > > > > > All the Best > > > > > Signing off > > > > > > > > > > Madhu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 16, 2007 Report Share Posted June 16, 2007 Shri Sreenadhji, Namaskar! There is a saying " Even hurry takes time " and " Haste makes waste " . The documents and tables etc. that I have prepared have taken a considerable time. They just actually show my own evolution, which some call " taking a U-turn " since most of the later documents are in contradiction of my own earlier conclusions! Instead of deleting them are hiding them, I just " expose " my own " ignorance " that it is only after going through a metamorphosis that one can arrive at some semblance of truth. However, there is no guarantee either that what I am saying today is the last word! Maybe there will be some feed back from the readers of this forum which may force me to change my views fuerther. In fact, that is what happened about a year back. Till then I was myself linking a so called sayana Rashichakra with a so clled sayana nakshatra chakra! But one gentleman from " IndiaArchaeology " forum pointed out that our Vedic Rishis could never be talking of an imaginary nakshatra chakra but of the real nakshatras which " contained " that particular star of that name! My God! I was stunned to read his views! He had hit the bull's eye and corrected my wrong stand that I had been harbouring for perhaps a decade! Believe me, I consider myself a student even today and will remain so throughout my life! A " jijnyasu " isntead of a teacher! As such, if anybody wants to go through those posts, let him/her take his/her own time and chew and digest that meaterial! Regards, AKK , " Sreenadh " <sreesog wrote: > > Dear Kaul ji, > ==> > Kindly go through all the files that I have uploaded on this forum > and do give a point by point reply. > <== > No body has that much free time in this busy era. Bharat is a > business man and me an IT professional - there is much work to do. > So please don't insist, or force others to do work just to > reply " ALL " your queries. > Of course in relaxed mood everything gets discussed bit by bit - > that is ok. As much you are convinced about the path you took, > others would be as convinced about their path as well. > Proofs, Arguments - everybody have it; even though others will > accept it or not is another question. > So let us be open and accept the views of others - and let people > be valued for what they are - and their uniqueness. > Discussions are good because they cause new knowledge to pour in. > So please be polite, slow. Even with mild and humble language we can > expose the absurdities and support the truth - right? > > Note: This goes for all. Please avoid personal criticisms, whether > it is about living individuals or those in heaven or hell (if they > exist): Especially if possibly gone there in recent past. Let us > not start a new argument on the same. We have our lives to live, and > what we do with that is more important. > Love, > Sreenadh > > , " Avtar Krishen > Kaul " <a_krishen@> wrote: > > > > Shri Bharat ji, > > Namaskar! > > > > First of all I must congratulate Shri Sreemadhji for keeping the > > posts on this forum unmoderated! It needs really an open mind to > do > > so! > > Now coming to your points: > > I have never asked anyone to agree with me or even disagree with > me, > > for that matter. In a democracy, anybody is at liberty to cherish > > any system for being fleeced by charlatans or fleecing others! I > am > > no cop, please rest assured! The problem arises only when we say > > that these gimmicks of predictions are based on the Vedas and have > > been revealed by Rishis like Prashara and Brighu etc. etc. > > Naturally, anybody making such claims will have to substantiate > them > > with chapter and verse and not just go on repeating " Jyotish is > > Vedic " , " Jyotish is based on what Maharshi Prashara has said " and > so > > on and so forth! > > Kindly go through all the files that I have uploaded on this forum > > and do give a point by point reply. If you take time out to > peruse > > them patiently (Koshur6), you will see that I was sailing in the > > same boat as you are sailing today! In other words, I was a more > > stauch " nirayana astrologer " for quite a few years than nyybody > > else! Later on, with equal vehemence, I becamse a firm believer > > in " Sayana Vedic astrology " for several years! Since nobody, > > including the " Vedic jyotishis " themselves, whether sayana or > > nirayana, has as yet been able to pinpoint the existence of Mesha, > > Vrisha etc. astrological rashis, leave alone sayana or nirayana, > in > > any of the Vedas or the Vedanga Jyotisha or the Yajur Jyotisha or > > even Atharva Jyotisha, obviously, we have been taken for a ride > for > > quite some time by such charlatans as claim that the Vedas talk of > > nothing else but predictive gimmicks! > > It may perhaps be a " revelation " to you that we do not find any > > mention of the much dreaded Mangal and Shani either in any of the > > Vedas or any of the Vedic astronomical works! I wonder whether > you > > know that except for Maya the mlechha's Surya Sidhanta, no other > > sidhanta of even the Panchasidhantika refers to any Rashis or > > Mangal, Shani etc. planets even by mistake! To crown it all, the > > Surya Sidhanta of Panchasidhantika is the most inaccurate > > astronomical work that could have been produced by anybody! > > Ironically, Varahamihira found that very Surya Sidhanta to be the > > most accurate - spashta taro savitrah! Varahamhira is supposed > to > > have been the greatest Indian astrologer of all times! Naturally, > > if someone can make correct predictions from incorrect data, he > > certainly is a charlatan than anything else! Thus you can say > > that " Varahamihira was the greatest charlatan of Indian astrology > of > > all times " . There was a genetleman in twentieth century also who > > could make coorect predictions about " notable horoscopes " with > > incorrect data. He was also known as the greatest Vedic > astrologer > > of the twentieth century! That much for Indian astrology! > > Dhanyavad. > > , " Bharat Hindu > > Astrology " <hinduastrology@> wrote: > > > > > > Namaste Sri Sreenadh > > > > > > Forcing a concept down the throat is not the way of a Scholar. > Nor > > does a > > > Scholar is one who has such a closed mind, who cannot accept > that > > views > > > other than his own can exist. There a vast difference between a > > true scholar > > > who pursues knowledge knowing that Ignorance is so vast that he > > better be > > > humble. > > > > > > By giving useless logic and wrong translations and without > > answering any > > > queries, one does not become a Scholar. > > > > > > I reserve my judgment about this person and his " lookalikes " > > > > > > Thanks and Regards > > > Bharat > > > > > > On 6/15/07, Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Bharat ji, > > > > " Sri Kaul and his belief system " => That is cute > terminology. > > > > ==> > > > > > He uses sarcasm and calls names to those who does not agree > to > > his > > > > > thinking. > > > > <== > > > > That is not good - if he does so. > > > > ==> > > > > > He is trying to force his way around in proving all > > > > > others are wrong. > > > > <== > > > > That is quite natural for a scholar - and he is I assure. > > > > > > > > ==> > > > > > Another such a character is Mohan Jyotishi. > > > > <== > > > > Are they two different characters; or just another id of Kaul > > itself? > > > > > > > > ==> > > > > > You need not leave group and help serve their purpose. > Rather > > stay > > > > > and enjoy their mostly baseless contentions. > > > > <== > > > > > > > > I agree to the first statement and stand by the same. But would > > > > disagree to the second, since Kaul's arguments also has some > > > > supportive evidence, like a person seeing a 2 colored kite > from > > only > > > > one side. The truth is both Sayana and Nirayana system existed > in > > > > Vedic period, and also that Nirayana system of astrology is > more > > of > > > > Tantric origin than of Vedic. But let us not fight over > > terminology > > > > but rather search the fruits of it, so that it would be of > some > > use > > > > to us. > > > > Love, > > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > > > --- In > > <% > > 40>, > > > > " Bharat Hindu > > > > Astrology " <hinduastrology@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Sri Madhu > > > > > > > > > > I have had discussions with Sri Kaul and his belief system. > I > > did > > > > not agree > > > > > to it and still call Vedic Astrology as Vedic only. He uses > > sarcasm > > > > and > > > > > calls names to those who does not agree to his thinking. He > is > > > > trying to > > > > > force his way around in proving all others are wrong. He has > > done > > > > so in > > > > > various lists. In fact, Sri Windhall wrote an excellent > reply > > to his > > > > > contentions, to which he did not reply. > > > > > > > > > > Another such a character is Mohan Jyotishi. There is no point > > > > discussing > > > > > things with them. They are no one to determine whether > > Astrology is > > > > Vedic or > > > > > not. I am born to the culture and shall call it Vedic, > > including > > > > astrology. > > > > > > > > > > You need not leave group and help serve their purpose. > Rather > > stay > > > > and enjoy > > > > > their mostly baseless contentions. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks and Regards > > > > > Bharat > > > > > > > > > > On 6/15/07, Balagurusurya <balagurusurya@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sreenadh , > > > > > > When I wrote a reply to Kishen Kaul,I meant No offence to > > him. > > > > > > I just suggested to verify the meaning of " Parashara " > with > > a > > > > > > learned Sanskrit scholar, since I understand that one > meaning > > > > > > attributed to " Parashara' is " The Liberated one " , that > > means , > > > > > > Parashara can never be a single person & BPHS may be a > > > > contribution > > > > > > of several realised souls . > > > > > > Unfortunately , he was finding fault with my English. I > could > > > > > > clearly make out his sarcastic note of my English. > > > > > > I was under the presumption that the list was meant for > > learning > > > > > > Jyotish. Now I realise it is for learning flowery English > > > > Language. I > > > > > > know Kishen Kaul and his known hostility to Nirayana > > Zodiac .If I > > > > > > recollect correctly, VSK reviewed his ephemeris, years > back . > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, I am sure , as Mohan or in some other alias he will > > > > return to > > > > > > vent his spite. I don't have the Time to fight neither I > > wish to > > > > > > be the target of someone in nomdeplume . > > > > > > > > > > > > Once I left your list but returned ,as desired by you, > Kumar > > and > > > > > > some other members who are my friends. > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't want to be a disruptive influence in your list . > > > > > > I am sure the list will progress to new horizon ,under > your > > able > > > > > > guidance > > > > > > All the Best > > > > > > Signing off > > > > > > > > > > > > Madhu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2007 Report Share Posted June 17, 2007 Namaste Sri KaulA discussion takes place when:1. I am a learner and a student of yours or you are a learner and student of mine2. Both of us are open to learning, exploring.3. If you are a knower of something that I seek or I am a knower of something that you seek and we ask the knower. You and I do not satisfy any of the criteria. You are pre-decided on most things. You have not answered close to 20 queries put up by me OR more than 50 by others. You cannot expect us to answer your misplaced contentions, especially when you have no attitude nor openness for learning. I am not busy for seeking knowledge or for sharing it, but, I would rather not waste time with another useless debate with you. Infact, if you notice, I was not even discussing with you. I was discussing with Sri Madhu and Sri Sreenadh. Thanks and RegardsBharatOn 6/16/07, Avtar Krishen Kaul <a_krishen wrote: Shri Bharat ji, Namaskar! First of all I must congratulate Shri Sreemadhji for keeping the posts on this forum unmoderated! It needs really an open mind to do so! Now coming to your points: I have never asked anyone to agree with me or even disagree with me, for that matter. In a democracy, anybody is at liberty to cherish any system for being fleeced by charlatans or fleecing others! I am no cop, please rest assured! The problem arises only when we say that these gimmicks of predictions are based on the Vedas and have been revealed by Rishis like Prashara and Brighu etc. etc. Naturally, anybody making such claims will have to substantiate them with chapter and verse and not just go on repeating " Jyotish is Vedic " , " Jyotish is based on what Maharshi Prashara has said " and so on and so forth! Kindly go through all the files that I have uploaded on this forum and do give a point by point reply. If you take time out to peruse them patiently (Koshur6), you will see that I was sailing in the same boat as you are sailing today! In other words, I was a more stauch " nirayana astrologer " for quite a few years than nyybody else! Later on, with equal vehemence, I becamse a firm believer in " Sayana Vedic astrology " for several years! Since nobody, including the " Vedic jyotishis " themselves, whether sayana or nirayana, has as yet been able to pinpoint the existence of Mesha, Vrisha etc. astrological rashis, leave alone sayana or nirayana, in any of the Vedas or the Vedanga Jyotisha or the Yajur Jyotisha or even Atharva Jyotisha, obviously, we have been taken for a ride for quite some time by such charlatans as claim that the Vedas talk of nothing else but predictive gimmicks! It may perhaps be a " revelation " to you that we do not find any mention of the much dreaded Mangal and Shani either in any of the Vedas or any of the Vedic astronomical works! I wonder whether you know that except for Maya the mlechha's Surya Sidhanta, no other sidhanta of even the Panchasidhantika refers to any Rashis or Mangal, Shani etc. planets even by mistake! To crown it all, the Surya Sidhanta of Panchasidhantika is the most inaccurate astronomical work that could have been produced by anybody! Ironically, Varahamihira found that very Surya Sidhanta to be the most accurate - spashta taro savitrah! Varahamhira is supposed to have been the greatest Indian astrologer of all times! Naturally, if someone can make correct predictions from incorrect data, he certainly is a charlatan than anything else! Thus you can say that " Varahamihira was the greatest charlatan of Indian astrology of all times " . There was a genetleman in twentieth century also who could make coorect predictions about " notable horoscopes " with incorrect data. He was also known as the greatest Vedic astrologer of the twentieth century! That much for Indian astrology! Dhanyavad. , " Bharat Hindu Astrology " <hinduastrology wrote: > > Namaste Sri Sreenadh > > Forcing a concept down the throat is not the way of a Scholar. Nor does a > Scholar is one who has such a closed mind, who cannot accept that views > other than his own can exist. There a vast difference between a true scholar > who pursues knowledge knowing that Ignorance is so vast that he better be > humble. > > By giving useless logic and wrong translations and without answering any > queries, one does not become a Scholar. > > I reserve my judgment about this person and his " lookalikes " > > Thanks and Regards > Bharat > > On 6/15/07, Sreenadh <sreesog wrote: > > > > Dear Bharat ji, > > " Sri Kaul and his belief system " => That is cute terminology. > > ==> > > > He uses sarcasm and calls names to those who does not agree to his > > > thinking. > > <== > > That is not good - if he does so. > > ==> > > > He is trying to force his way around in proving all > > > others are wrong. > > <== > > That is quite natural for a scholar - and he is I assure. > > > > ==> > > > Another such a character is Mohan Jyotishi. > > <== > > Are they two different characters; or just another id of Kaul itself? > > > > ==> > > > You need not leave group and help serve their purpose. Rather stay > > > and enjoy their mostly baseless contentions. > > <== > > > > I agree to the first statement and stand by the same. But would > > disagree to the second, since Kaul's arguments also has some > > supportive evidence, like a person seeing a 2 colored kite from only > > one side. The truth is both Sayana and Nirayana system existed in > > Vedic period, and also that Nirayana system of astrology is more of > > Tantric origin than of Vedic. But let us not fight over terminology > > but rather search the fruits of it, so that it would be of some use > > to us. > > Love, > > Sreenadh > > > > <% 40>, > > " Bharat Hindu > > Astrology " <hinduastrology@> wrote: > > > > > > Namaste Sri Madhu > > > > > > I have had discussions with Sri Kaul and his belief system. I did > > not agree > > > to it and still call Vedic Astrology as Vedic only. He uses sarcasm > > and > > > calls names to those who does not agree to his thinking. He is > > trying to > > > force his way around in proving all others are wrong. He has done > > so in > > > various lists. In fact, Sri Windhall wrote an excellent reply to his > > > contentions, to which he did not reply. > > > > > > Another such a character is Mohan Jyotishi. There is no point > > discussing > > > things with them. They are no one to determine whether Astrology is > > Vedic or > > > not. I am born to the culture and shall call it Vedic, including > > astrology. > > > > > > You need not leave group and help serve their purpose. Rather stay > > and enjoy > > > their mostly baseless contentions. > > > > > > Thanks and Regards > > > Bharat > > > > > > On 6/15/07, Balagurusurya <balagurusurya@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Sreenadh , > > > > When I wrote a reply to Kishen Kaul,I meant No offence to him. > > > > I just suggested to verify the meaning of " Parashara " with a > > > > learned Sanskrit scholar, since I understand that one meaning > > > > attributed to " Parashara' is " The Liberated one " , that means , > > > > Parashara can never be a single person & BPHS may be a > > contribution > > > > of several realised souls . > > > > Unfortunately , he was finding fault with my English. I could > > > > clearly make out his sarcastic note of my English. > > > > I was under the presumption that the list was meant for learning > > > > Jyotish. Now I realise it is for learning flowery English > > Language. I > > > > know Kishen Kaul and his known hostility to Nirayana Zodiac .If I > > > > recollect correctly, VSK reviewed his ephemeris, years back . > > > > > > > > Anyway, I am sure , as Mohan or in some other alias he will > > return to > > > > vent his spite. I don't have the Time to fight neither I wish to > > > > be the target of someone in nomdeplume . > > > > > > > > Once I left your list but returned ,as desired by you, Kumar and > > > > some other members who are my friends. > > > > > > > > I don't want to be a disruptive influence in your list . > > > > I am sure the list will progress to new horizon ,under your able > > > > guidance > > > > All the Best > > > > Signing off > > > > > > > > Madhu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2007 Report Share Posted June 17, 2007 Shri Bharatji, Namaskar! Perhaps you are referring to the questions that you and others might have posted on " Vedic-astrology " forum. I have made it very clear that I was banned from that forum, and it is just possible that I did not even see those posts. Please post those very questions on this forum again for my perusal, even if you do not want to continue any discussion with me. Dhanyavad AKK , " Bharat Hindu Astrology " <hinduastrology wrote: > > Namaste Sri Kaul > > A discussion takes place when: > > 1. I am a learner and a student of yours or you are a learner and student of > mine > 2. Both of us are open to learning, exploring. > 3. If you are a knower of something that I seek or I am a knower of > something that you seek and we ask the knower. > > You and I do not satisfy any of the criteria. You are pre-decided on most > things. You have not answered close to 20 queries put up by me OR more than > 50 by others. You cannot expect us to answer your misplaced contentions, > especially when you have no attitude nor openness for learning. > > I am not busy for seeking knowledge or for sharing it, but, I would rather > not waste time with another useless debate with you. > > Infact, if you notice, I was not even discussing with you. I was discussing > with Sri Madhu and Sri Sreenadh. > > Thanks and Regards > Bharat > > > > On 6/16/07, Avtar Krishen Kaul <a_krishen wrote: > > > > Shri Bharat ji, > > Namaskar! > > > > First of all I must congratulate Shri Sreemadhji for keeping the > > posts on this forum unmoderated! It needs really an open mind to do > > so! > > Now coming to your points: > > I have never asked anyone to agree with me or even disagree with me, > > for that matter. In a democracy, anybody is at liberty to cherish > > any system for being fleeced by charlatans or fleecing others! I am > > no cop, please rest assured! The problem arises only when we say > > that these gimmicks of predictions are based on the Vedas and have > > been revealed by Rishis like Prashara and Brighu etc. etc. > > Naturally, anybody making such claims will have to substantiate them > > with chapter and verse and not just go on repeating " Jyotish is > > Vedic " , " Jyotish is based on what Maharshi Prashara has said " and so > > on and so forth! > > Kindly go through all the files that I have uploaded on this forum > > and do give a point by point reply. If you take time out to peruse > > them patiently (Koshur6), you will see that I was sailing in the > > same boat as you are sailing today! In other words, I was a more > > stauch " nirayana astrologer " for quite a few years than nyybody > > else! Later on, with equal vehemence, I becamse a firm believer > > in " Sayana Vedic astrology " for several years! Since nobody, > > including the " Vedic jyotishis " themselves, whether sayana or > > nirayana, has as yet been able to pinpoint the existence of Mesha, > > Vrisha etc. astrological rashis, leave alone sayana or nirayana, in > > any of the Vedas or the Vedanga Jyotisha or the Yajur Jyotisha or > > even Atharva Jyotisha, obviously, we have been taken for a ride for > > quite some time by such charlatans as claim that the Vedas talk of > > nothing else but predictive gimmicks! > > It may perhaps be a " revelation " to you that we do not find any > > mention of the much dreaded Mangal and Shani either in any of the > > Vedas or any of the Vedic astronomical works! I wonder whether you > > know that except for Maya the mlechha's Surya Sidhanta, no other > > sidhanta of even the Panchasidhantika refers to any Rashis or > > Mangal, Shani etc. planets even by mistake! To crown it all, the > > Surya Sidhanta of Panchasidhantika is the most inaccurate > > astronomical work that could have been produced by anybody! > > Ironically, Varahamihira found that very Surya Sidhanta to be the > > most accurate - spashta taro savitrah! Varahamhira is supposed to > > have been the greatest Indian astrologer of all times! Naturally, > > if someone can make correct predictions from incorrect data, he > > certainly is a charlatan than anything else! Thus you can say > > that " Varahamihira was the greatest charlatan of Indian astrology of > > all times " . There was a genetleman in twentieth century also who > > could make coorect predictions about " notable horoscopes " with > > incorrect data. He was also known as the greatest Vedic astrologer > > of the twentieth century! That much for Indian astrology! > > Dhanyavad. > > --- In <% 40>, > > " Bharat Hindu > > Astrology " <hinduastrology@> wrote: > > > > > > Namaste Sri Sreenadh > > > > > > Forcing a concept down the throat is not the way of a Scholar. Nor > > does a > > > Scholar is one who has such a closed mind, who cannot accept that > > views > > > other than his own can exist. There a vast difference between a > > true scholar > > > who pursues knowledge knowing that Ignorance is so vast that he > > better be > > > humble. > > > > > > By giving useless logic and wrong translations and without > > answering any > > > queries, one does not become a Scholar. > > > > > > I reserve my judgment about this person and his " lookalikes " > > > > > > Thanks and Regards > > > Bharat > > > > > > On 6/15/07, Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Bharat ji, > > > > " Sri Kaul and his belief system " => That is cute terminology. > > > > ==> > > > > > He uses sarcasm and calls names to those who does not agree to > > his > > > > > thinking. > > > > <== > > > > That is not good - if he does so. > > > > ==> > > > > > He is trying to force his way around in proving all > > > > > others are wrong. > > > > <== > > > > That is quite natural for a scholar - and he is I assure. > > > > > > > > ==> > > > > > Another such a character is Mohan Jyotishi. > > > > <== > > > > Are they two different characters; or just another id of Kaul > > itself? > > > > > > > > ==> > > > > > You need not leave group and help serve their purpose. Rather > > stay > > > > > and enjoy their mostly baseless contentions. > > > > <== > > > > > > > > I agree to the first statement and stand by the same. But would > > > > disagree to the second, since Kaul's arguments also has some > > > > supportive evidence, like a person seeing a 2 colored kite from > > only > > > > one side. The truth is both Sayana and Nirayana system existed in > > > > Vedic period, and also that Nirayana system of astrology is more > > of > > > > Tantric origin than of Vedic. But let us not fight over > > terminology > > > > but rather search the fruits of it, so that it would be of some > > use > > > > to us. > > > > Love, > > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > > > --- In > > <% 40> > > <% > > 40>, > > > > " Bharat Hindu > > > > Astrology " <hinduastrology@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Sri Madhu > > > > > > > > > > I have had discussions with Sri Kaul and his belief system. I > > did > > > > not agree > > > > > to it and still call Vedic Astrology as Vedic only. He uses > > sarcasm > > > > and > > > > > calls names to those who does not agree to his thinking. He is > > > > trying to > > > > > force his way around in proving all others are wrong. He has > > done > > > > so in > > > > > various lists. In fact, Sri Windhall wrote an excellent reply > > to his > > > > > contentions, to which he did not reply. > > > > > > > > > > Another such a character is Mohan Jyotishi. There is no point > > > > discussing > > > > > things with them. They are no one to determine whether > > Astrology is > > > > Vedic or > > > > > not. I am born to the culture and shall call it Vedic, > > including > > > > astrology. > > > > > > > > > > You need not leave group and help serve their purpose. Rather > > stay > > > > and enjoy > > > > > their mostly baseless contentions. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks and Regards > > > > > Bharat > > > > > > > > > > On 6/15/07, Balagurusurya <balagurusurya@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sreenadh , > > > > > > When I wrote a reply to Kishen Kaul,I meant No offence to > > him. > > > > > > I just suggested to verify the meaning of " Parashara " with > > a > > > > > > learned Sanskrit scholar, since I understand that one meaning > > > > > > attributed to " Parashara' is " The Liberated one " , that > > means , > > > > > > Parashara can never be a single person & BPHS may be a > > > > contribution > > > > > > of several realised souls . > > > > > > Unfortunately , he was finding fault with my English. I could > > > > > > clearly make out his sarcastic note of my English. > > > > > > I was under the presumption that the list was meant for > > learning > > > > > > Jyotish. Now I realise it is for learning flowery English > > > > Language. I > > > > > > know Kishen Kaul and his known hostility to Nirayana > > Zodiac .If I > > > > > > recollect correctly, VSK reviewed his ephemeris, years back . > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, I am sure , as Mohan or in some other alias he will > > > > return to > > > > > > vent his spite. I don't have the Time to fight neither I > > wish to > > > > > > be the target of someone in nomdeplume . > > > > > > > > > > > > Once I left your list but returned ,as desired by you, Kumar > > and > > > > > > some other members who are my friends. > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't want to be a disruptive influence in your list . > > > > > > I am sure the list will progress to new horizon ,under your > > able > > > > > > guidance > > > > > > All the Best > > > > > > Signing off > > > > > > > > > > > > Madhu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 17, 2007 Report Share Posted June 17, 2007 Dear Kaul ji, ==> > There is a saying " Even hurry takes time " and " Haste makes waste " . > The documents and tables etc. that I have prepared have taken a > considerable time. They just actually show my own evolution, which > some call " taking a U-turn " since most of the later documents are in > contradiction of my own earlier conclusions! .................. > However, there is no guarantee either that what > I am saying today is the last word! .................. > Believe me, I consider myself a student even today and will remain > so throughout my life! A " jijnyasu " isntead of a teacher! <== That is quite natural for a sincere human being - or actually that is what makes a man sincere. Me too consider my self as a student only and NEVER want to be a teacher - knowledge is vast and we are nothing. ==> > But one gentleman from " IndiaArchaeology " forum > pointed out that our Vedic Rishis could never be talking of an > imaginary nakshatra chakra but of the real nakshatras > which " contained " that particular star of that name! <== I don't agree with that - because through out Vedas the word Nakshatra is used to refer to fixed stellar division only - whether it be of lunar path (28) or of ecliptic (27). They were well scientific in using different words to refer to stars and stellar divisions. Love, Sreenadh , " Avtar Krishen Kaul " <jyotirved wrote: > > Shri Sreenadhji, > Namaskar! > There is a saying " Even hurry takes time " and " Haste makes waste " . > The documents and tables etc. that I have prepared have taken a > considerable time. They just actually show my own evolution, which > some call " taking a U-turn " since most of the later documents are in > contradiction of my own earlier conclusions! Instead of deleting > them are hiding them, I just " expose " my own " ignorance " that it is > only after going through a metamorphosis that one can arrive at some > semblance of truth. However, there is no guarantee either that what > I am saying today is the last word! Maybe there will be some feed > back from the readers of this forum which may force me to change my > views fuerther. > In fact, that is what happened about a year back. Till then I was > myself linking a so called sayana Rashichakra with a so clled sayana > nakshatra chakra! But one gentleman from " IndiaArchaeology " forum > pointed out that our Vedic Rishis could never be talking of an > imaginary nakshatra chakra but of the real nakshatras > which " contained " that particular star of that name! My God! I was > stunned to read his views! He had hit the bull's eye and corrected > my wrong stand that I had been harbouring for perhaps a decade! > Believe me, I consider myself a student even today and will remain > so throughout my life! A " jijnyasu " isntead of a teacher! > As such, if anybody wants to go through those posts, let him/her > take his/her own time and chew and digest that meaterial! > Regards, > AKK > , " Sreenadh " > <sreesog@> wrote: > > > > Dear Kaul ji, > > ==> > > Kindly go through all the files that I have uploaded on this forum > > and do give a point by point reply. > > <== > > No body has that much free time in this busy era. Bharat is a > > business man and me an IT professional - there is much work to do. > > So please don't insist, or force others to do work just to > > reply " ALL " your queries. > > Of course in relaxed mood everything gets discussed bit by bit - > > that is ok. As much you are convinced about the path you took, > > others would be as convinced about their path as well. > > Proofs, Arguments - everybody have it; even though others will > > accept it or not is another question. > > So let us be open and accept the views of others - and let people > > be valued for what they are - and their uniqueness. > > Discussions are good because they cause new knowledge to pour in. > > So please be polite, slow. Even with mild and humble language we > can > > expose the absurdities and support the truth - right? > > > > Note: This goes for all. Please avoid personal criticisms, whether > > it is about living individuals or those in heaven or hell (if they > > exist): Especially if possibly gone there in recent past. Let > us > > not start a new argument on the same. We have our lives to live, > and > > what we do with that is more important. > > Love, > > Sreenadh > > > > , " Avtar Krishen > > Kaul " <a_krishen@> wrote: > > > > > > Shri Bharat ji, > > > Namaskar! > > > > > > First of all I must congratulate Shri Sreemadhji for keeping the > > > posts on this forum unmoderated! It needs really an open mind > to > > do > > > so! > > > Now coming to your points: > > > I have never asked anyone to agree with me or even disagree with > > me, > > > for that matter. In a democracy, anybody is at liberty to > cherish > > > any system for being fleeced by charlatans or fleecing others! > I > > am > > > no cop, please rest assured! The problem arises only when we > say > > > that these gimmicks of predictions are based on the Vedas and > have > > > been revealed by Rishis like Prashara and Brighu etc. etc. > > > Naturally, anybody making such claims will have to substantiate > > them > > > with chapter and verse and not just go on repeating " Jyotish is > > > Vedic " , " Jyotish is based on what Maharshi Prashara has said " > and > > so > > > on and so forth! > > > Kindly go through all the files that I have uploaded on this > forum > > > and do give a point by point reply. If you take time out to > > peruse > > > them patiently (Koshur6), you will see that I was sailing in the > > > same boat as you are sailing today! In other words, I was a > more > > > stauch " nirayana astrologer " for quite a few years than nyybody > > > else! Later on, with equal vehemence, I becamse a firm believer > > > in " Sayana Vedic astrology " for several years! Since nobody, > > > including the " Vedic jyotishis " themselves, whether sayana or > > > nirayana, has as yet been able to pinpoint the existence of > Mesha, > > > Vrisha etc. astrological rashis, leave alone sayana or nirayana, > > in > > > any of the Vedas or the Vedanga Jyotisha or the Yajur Jyotisha > or > > > even Atharva Jyotisha, obviously, we have been taken for a ride > > for > > > quite some time by such charlatans as claim that the Vedas talk > of > > > nothing else but predictive gimmicks! > > > It may perhaps be a " revelation " to you that we do not find any > > > mention of the much dreaded Mangal and Shani either in any of > the > > > Vedas or any of the Vedic astronomical works! I wonder whether > > you > > > know that except for Maya the mlechha's Surya Sidhanta, no other > > > sidhanta of even the Panchasidhantika refers to any Rashis or > > > Mangal, Shani etc. planets even by mistake! To crown it all, > the > > > Surya Sidhanta of Panchasidhantika is the most inaccurate > > > astronomical work that could have been produced by anybody! > > > Ironically, Varahamihira found that very Surya Sidhanta to be > the > > > most accurate - spashta taro savitrah! Varahamhira is supposed > > to > > > have been the greatest Indian astrologer of all times! > Naturally, > > > if someone can make correct predictions from incorrect data, he > > > certainly is a charlatan than anything else! Thus you can say > > > that " Varahamihira was the greatest charlatan of Indian > astrology > > of > > > all times " . There was a genetleman in twentieth century also who > > > could make coorect predictions about " notable horoscopes " with > > > incorrect data. He was also known as the greatest Vedic > > astrologer > > > of the twentieth century! That much for Indian astrology! > > > Dhanyavad. > > > , " Bharat Hindu > > > Astrology " <hinduastrology@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Namaste Sri Sreenadh > > > > > > > > Forcing a concept down the throat is not the way of a Scholar. > > Nor > > > does a > > > > Scholar is one who has such a closed mind, who cannot accept > > that > > > views > > > > other than his own can exist. There a vast difference between > a > > > true scholar > > > > who pursues knowledge knowing that Ignorance is so vast that > he > > > better be > > > > humble. > > > > > > > > By giving useless logic and wrong translations and without > > > answering any > > > > queries, one does not become a Scholar. > > > > > > > > I reserve my judgment about this person and his " lookalikes " > > > > > > > > Thanks and Regards > > > > Bharat > > > > > > > > On 6/15/07, Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Bharat ji, > > > > > " Sri Kaul and his belief system " => That is cute > > terminology. > > > > > ==> > > > > > > He uses sarcasm and calls names to those who does not > agree > > to > > > his > > > > > > thinking. > > > > > <== > > > > > That is not good - if he does so. > > > > > ==> > > > > > > He is trying to force his way around in proving all > > > > > > others are wrong. > > > > > <== > > > > > That is quite natural for a scholar - and he is I assure. > > > > > > > > > > ==> > > > > > > Another such a character is Mohan Jyotishi. > > > > > <== > > > > > Are they two different characters; or just another id of > Kaul > > > itself? > > > > > > > > > > ==> > > > > > > You need not leave group and help serve their purpose. > > Rather > > > stay > > > > > > and enjoy their mostly baseless contentions. > > > > > <== > > > > > > > > > > I agree to the first statement and stand by the same. But > would > > > > > disagree to the second, since Kaul's arguments also has some > > > > > supportive evidence, like a person seeing a 2 colored kite > > from > > > only > > > > > one side. The truth is both Sayana and Nirayana system > existed > > in > > > > > Vedic period, and also that Nirayana system of astrology is > > more > > > of > > > > > Tantric origin than of Vedic. But let us not fight over > > > terminology > > > > > but rather search the fruits of it, so that it would be of > > some > > > use > > > > > to us. > > > > > Love, > > > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > > > <% > > > 40>, > > > > > " Bharat Hindu > > > > > Astrology " <hinduastrology@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Sri Madhu > > > > > > > > > > > > I have had discussions with Sri Kaul and his belief > system. > > I > > > did > > > > > not agree > > > > > > to it and still call Vedic Astrology as Vedic only. He > uses > > > sarcasm > > > > > and > > > > > > calls names to those who does not agree to his thinking. > He > > is > > > > > trying to > > > > > > force his way around in proving all others are wrong. He > has > > > done > > > > > so in > > > > > > various lists. In fact, Sri Windhall wrote an excellent > > reply > > > to his > > > > > > contentions, to which he did not reply. > > > > > > > > > > > > Another such a character is Mohan Jyotishi. There is no > point > > > > > discussing > > > > > > things with them. They are no one to determine whether > > > Astrology is > > > > > Vedic or > > > > > > not. I am born to the culture and shall call it Vedic, > > > including > > > > > astrology. > > > > > > > > > > > > You need not leave group and help serve their purpose. > > Rather > > > stay > > > > > and enjoy > > > > > > their mostly baseless contentions. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks and Regards > > > > > > Bharat > > > > > > > > > > > > On 6/15/07, Balagurusurya <balagurusurya@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sreenadh , > > > > > > > When I wrote a reply to Kishen Kaul,I meant No offence > to > > > him. > > > > > > > I just suggested to verify the meaning of " Parashara " > > with > > > a > > > > > > > learned Sanskrit scholar, since I understand that one > > meaning > > > > > > > attributed to " Parashara' is " The Liberated one " , that > > > means , > > > > > > > Parashara can never be a single person & BPHS may be a > > > > > contribution > > > > > > > of several realised souls . > > > > > > > Unfortunately , he was finding fault with my English. I > > could > > > > > > > clearly make out his sarcastic note of my English. > > > > > > > I was under the presumption that the list was meant for > > > learning > > > > > > > Jyotish. Now I realise it is for learning flowery English > > > > > Language. I > > > > > > > know Kishen Kaul and his known hostility to Nirayana > > > Zodiac .If I > > > > > > > recollect correctly, VSK reviewed his ephemeris, years > > back . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, I am sure , as Mohan or in some other alias he > will > > > > > return to > > > > > > > vent his spite. I don't have the Time to fight neither I > > > wish to > > > > > > > be the target of someone in nomdeplume . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Once I left your list but returned ,as desired by you, > > Kumar > > > and > > > > > > > some other members who are my friends. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't want to be a disruptive influence in your list . > > > > > > > I am sure the list will progress to new horizon ,under > > your > > > able > > > > > > > guidance > > > > > > > All the Best > > > > > > > Signing off > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Madhu > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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