Reference of Sayana and Nirayana zodiac and predictive astrology in vedas

[Guest guest]

Dear Kaul ji,

Don't worry, I don't say things without supporting evidence. A

pdf document is uploaded in the files section and you can check.

Some of the relevant suktas are quoted in it. As far as the chapter

and verse number is concerned, search it your self.

Love,

Sreenadh

 

, " Avtar Krishen

Kaul " <a_krishen wrote:

>

>

> Shri Sreenadhji,

> Namaskar!

>

> You have said

> <<==

>

> * There are several slokas in the Vedas that point to the fact

that

> both Sayana and Nirayana Zodiac were in use. This leads to the

> conclusion that both Sayana and Nirayana systems are supported by

> Vedas.

> * Fixing of 'Auspicious Muhurtas' gets importance or value, only

> when predictive astrology is accepted.

> * Clear predictive astrology is visible in suktas that predict the

> result for Nakshatras and in suktas such as the one which

says " If

> a child is born in Moola star, he will cause the destruction of

the

> clan " etc.

> * It is clear that sidereal stellar astrology was in use from

the

> mention of " Nakshatras " (fixed stellar divisions; these are

surely

> related to constellations and not areas with moving boundaries

as

> you argue). The word " Nakshatra " is used in Vedas ONLY to mean 27

> or 28 stellar divisions and not " Taras " (stars).

> > ==

>

> Would you kindly give me the exact chapter and verse of the above

> suktas etc.

> Regards,

> AKK

> , " Sreenadh "

> <sreesog@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Kaul ji,

> > Thanks for the following info.

> > ==>

> > > My name is Avtar Krishen Kaul. I am no impostor! My full

> address,

> > > telephone number etc. etc. are available in BVB6 document at

> > > HinduCalendar forum. Koshur6.doc there will throw a flood of

> light

> > > about my " astrological background " and other credentials.

> > <==

> >

> > ==>

> > > I am against any predictive gimmicks if they are supposed to

> have

> > > been " revealed " by our seers as nothing could be futher from

> truth

> > > than such injustice to our Rishis!

> > <==

> > Let us not be so bold in it - if there is enough proof and

> > usefulness let us accept it, if not reject. The history of

> fragmented

> > knowledge about the history of astrology we have today

(especially

> > the one you depend upon) is not enough make the statement that

> they

> > never supported astrology. Let us first understand the

limitation

> of

> > our knowledge - before rejecting the accumulated knowledge of

> > generations (many like us and better).

> >

> > ==>

> > > I have yet to receive any response to the document " Rotary "

> which I

> > > uploaded on this forum!

> > <==

> > It does not need an answer - it is your opinion, to most of

which

> I

> > (or we) don't agree and let it be there for some time. I don't

> have

> > spend a whole lot of time to respond each and every item

mentioned

> > there; but an occasional discussion of some of those points

would

> be

> > ok.

> > (Even the heated discussions shouldn't cause wasting all the

> energy

> > from doing productive work. Discussions are for relaxed and

joyous

> > sharing of knowledge that provides happiness to all parties

> involved -

> > whether the friends involved agree to agree or agree to disagree)

> >

> > ==>

> > > Let me clarify it here that there was a time when I was under

> the

> > > impression that the Vedas talked about and preached a so

called

> > > Sayana predictive system, which was based on so called Sayana

> > > Rashis. However, later on, I woke up to the situation that

> since

> > > there are no Mesha etc. Rashis in the Vedas, it is foolish on

> our

> > > part to call any rashi based predictive system as Vedic,

whether

> it

> > > is sayana or nirayana!

> > <==

> >

> > * There are several slokas in the Vedas that point to the fact

> that

> > both Sayana and Nirayana Zodiac were in use. This leads to the

> > conclusion that both Sayana and Nirayana systems are supported

by

> > Vedas.

> > * Fixing of 'Auspicious Muhurtas' gets importance or value, only

> when

> > predictive astrology is accepted.

> > * Clear predictive astrology is visible in suktas that predict

the

> > result for Nakshatras and in suktas such as the one which

says " If

> a

> > child is born in Moola star, he will cause the destruction of

the

> > clan " etc.

> > * It is clear that sidereal stellar astrology was in use from

the

> > mention of " Nakshatras " (fixed stellar divisions; these are

surely

> > related to constellations and not areas with moving boundaries

as

> you

> > argue). The word " Nakshatra " is used in Vedas ONLY to mean 27 or

> 28

> > stellar divisions and not " Taras " (stars).

> >

> > ==>

> > > Our Rishis used Madhu, Madhava etc. names for solar/lunar

months

> to

> > > decide their muhurtas and festivals etc.

> > > Those names can be said to be in agreement with today's sayana

> > > rashis! But ironically, Rashis can never be sayana since

> rashis

> > > means constellations and no constellation starts with First

> point

> > > of Aries these days!

> > <==

> > The existence and use of solar, lunar or luni-solar months are

> year

> > systems reveals the good knowledge of Vedic people about the

same.

> > Apart from this the Muhurta, Paksha, Day, Yuga, 5 Year Yuga

system

> > and many time divisions were in use. It is good to have such

good

> > knowledge about even such things - in such an early period.

> > ==>

> > > Then more irnoically, if we talk of sayana rashis, we have to

> > > forget about nakshatras, which have been referred to in the

> Vedas

> > > times without number, since the First Pooint of Aries is these

> days

> > > in exact conjunction with Purva Bhadra nakshata-II. (Please

see

> > > Star tables in HinduCalendar forum!)

> > <==

> > I don't understand this point - why " if we talk of sayana

rashis,

> we

> > have to forget about nakshatras " - the logic is not clear. As of

> the

> > document you mention is concerned, I will refer to it at my

> > convenience later.

> >

> > ==>

> > > That is why I have been crying hoarse -- you have to choose

> either

> > > of the two i.e. predictive astrology or calendar reform!

> > <==

> > Yes, that is your approach - and we appreciate the same. But

for

> us

> > there could be 2 types of calendars -

> > 1) Sayana calendar - which should be mainly used for

agricultural

> > and other purposes, because the seasons depend on the same.

> > 2) Nirayana Calendar - which should be used for the sole

purpose

> of

> > astrology; because it represent the rhythm of the universe (The

> > Nirayana Zodiac is a mathematical modal that depict the rhythm

of

> > movement of the total solar system over a long period). The

origin

> of

> > Nirayana Zodiac finds its origin in Yuga system and

Tantric/Yogic

> > experience of rhythm of breath pattern.

> > But both ways - whether Sayana or Nirayan - predictive system

was

> > and is in use.

> > But yes one thing is right - Predictive system (whether it is

> Sayana

> > or Nirayana; whether it is Rasi or Nakshatra based) needs a

> Calendar;

> > But for a Calendar to exist the existence of a predictive system

> is

> > not necessary.

> >

> > Love,

> > Sreenadh

> >

> > , " Avtar Krishen

> Kaul "

> > <a_krishen@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Shri Sreeenadhji,

> > > Namaskar!

> > > First of all, I must pay a fulsome tribute to your courage for

> > > having invited me to join this " "

forum,

> > > knowng fully well that I am agaisnt any predictive gimmicks

> being

> > > supposed to have been the hallmark of ancient Indian culture!

> > > Now to the brass-takcs!

> > > My name is Avtar Krishen Kaul. I am no impostor! My full

> address,

> > > telephone number etc. etc. are available in BVB6 document at

> > > HinduCalendar forum. Koshur6.doc there will throw a flood of

> light

> > > about my " astrological background " and other credentials.

> > > I was banned by " Vedic-Astrology " forum since they could not

> find

> > > any reply to my queries! However, it is nothing new to me,

> since I

> > > have been banned by quite a few fourms

> > > like " Hinduism_Environment " , " OmNamahShivaya " , " NavyaShastra "

> etc.

> > > etc., to name a few. Some forums I left myself like

> > Aryasamajonline!

> > > It is immaterial to me whether someone calls me Dr. Samuel

> Johnosn

> > > or an Avatar of someone else, since today's " scholars " have

> > a " nice "

> > > habit of hurling personal abuse instead of clarifying a point

> that

> > > an " ignoramus " person like me could not follow! You must have

> > > witenssed such bickerings even at HinduCalendar forum where

> nobody

> > > agrees with anybody else, least of all with me, sicne I am

> against

> > > any predictive gimmicks if they are supposed to have

> > been " revealed "

> > > by our seers as nothing could be futher from truth than such

> > > injustice to our Rishis!

> > > I have yet to receive any response to the document " Rotary "

> which I

> > > uploaded on this forum!

> > >

> > > Let me clarify it here that there was a time when I was under

> the

> > > impression that the Vedas talked about and preached a so

called

> > > Sayana predictive system, which was based on so called Sayana

> > > Rashis. However, later on, I woke up to the situation that

> since

> > > there are no Mesha etc. Rashis in the Vedas, it is foolish on

> our

> > > part to call any rashi based predictive system as Vedic,

whether

> it

> > > is sayana or nirayana! All these points have been clairifed in

> > > several posts at HinduCalendar forum.

> > >

> > > Our Rishis used Madhu, Madhava etc. names for solar/lunar

months

> to

> > > decide their muhurtas and festivals etc. Those names can be

> said

> > to

> > > be in agreement with today's sayana rashis! But ironically,

> Rashis

> > > can never be sayana since rashis means constellations and no

> > > constellation starts with First point of Aries these days!

> > > Then more irnoically, if we talk of sayana rashis, we have to

> > forget

> > > about nakshatras, which have been referred to in the Vedas

times

> > > without number, since the First Pooint of Aries is these days

in

> > > exact conjunction with Purva Bhadra nakshata-II. (Please see

> Star

> > > tables in HinduCalendar forum!)

> > >

> > > That is why I have been crying hoarse -- you have to choose

> either

> > > of the two i.e. predictive astrology or calendar reform!

> > > With regards,

> > > A K Kaul

> > > , " Sreenadh "

> > > <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Madhu ji,

> > > > Dr Samuel Johnson ? I don't know the real name of Krishnan

> > Kaul,

> > > > except that fact that he is the person behind the

> HinduCalender

> > > group.

> > > >

> > > > I request Kaul ji to reveal his identity (if he would like

> to)

> > so

> > > > that the confusions can be avoided. I don't like that

> > > word 'Avatar'

> > > > prefixed to his name - which reflect the ego, but respects

the

> > > > knowledge and will encourage the debates that that provide

> > > knowledge

> > > > input.

> > > >

> > > > Of course, there is enough arguments and info on both sides

> > > > (Nirayana and Sayana) to hold the ground - and both of them

> > > support

> > > > astrology. As everybody know - even the determiniation

> > > of 'Auspecious

> > > > Muhurta' reflect the existence of Predictive astrology - if

> > > > predictive astrology is not present how can a muhurta

> > > > be 'Auspecious'?!

> > > >

> > > > But again, Madhu ji, please avoid personal remarks, because

> > > strong

> > > > mountains with enough strength are not afraid of even strong

> > > > winds. The bouts are enjoyable to warriors with a

fighting

> > > > spirit, especially when truth is there to backup.

> > > > Love,

> > > > Sreenadh

> > > >

> > > > , Madhu Nair

> > > > <balagurusurya@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Hi,

> > > > > I never Knew Dr Samuel Johnson had taken a new Avathar

to

> > > teach

> > > > vocabulary to members of sreenad's list.After utter failure

> of

> > > their

> > > > ephemeris , perhaps the Avathars has now decided to teach

> > > English.

> > > > > Pedants like you are the " REAL LIABILTY " to Vedanga

> Jyotish

> > > > > M

> > > > >

> > > > > Avtar Krishen Kaul <a_krishen@> wrote:

> > > > > Hi, Madhu ji,

> > > > > It appears my English is very " poor " since I cannot

> understand

> > > what

> > > > > you mean by

> > > > > <you should first consult a genuine Sanskrit pundit and

> ensure

> > > > > whether the word Parashara has got " Liberated One " : has

its

> > > > synonymn>

> > > > > Would you kindly be my " English Pandit (or is

it 'Pundit'?) "

> and

> > > > > explain to me the meaning of the above sentence.

> > > > > AKK

> > > > > , Madhu Nair

> > > > > <balagurusurya@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Hi AKK,

> > > > > > Prior to whipping off any meaningless controversy

> pertaining

> > > to

> > > > > the existence of Sage Parashara, you should first consult

a

> > > genuine

> > > > > Sanskrit pundit and ensure whether the word Parashara has

got

> > > > > " Liberated One " : has its synonymn

> > > > > >

> > > > > > M

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Avtar Krishen Kaul <a_krishen@> wrote:

> > > > > > Dear members,

> > > > > > Namaskar!

> > > > > > It has been said

> > > > > > <n the

> > > > > > > > > Vyakhya of Varaha Hora, Bhattolpala says:

> > > > > > > > > Parasara Samhitha kevalamasmabhir drishtam nathu

> > jathakam

> > > > > > > > > Srooyathe skandha treyamithi Parasarasyethi.

> > > > > > > > > (Varaha Hora - Bhattolpala Vyakhya)

> > > > > > > > > Meaning, I have seen only Parasara Samhitha, and

not

> > > > Parasara

> > > > > > > > Hora.

> > > > > > > > > But I have heard that Parasara had written books

for

> > all

> > > > the 3

> > > > > > > > > skandhas (i.e. Sidhantha, Samhitha and Hora).

> > > > > > > > > From all these it is clear that Parasara of

BC.1400

> has

> > > > written 3

> > > > > > > > > books, i.e. Parasara Sidhatha, Parasara Samhitha

and

> > > > Parasara

> > > > > Hora.>

> > > > > >

> > > > > > In other words, even Bhatotpala of 7th century was going

> by a

> > > > hearsay!

> > > > > > Thus it does not at all prove by any stretch of

> imagination

> > > that

> > > > > > there really exited a Parashara Hora at that time or

even

> > > prior to

> > > > > > that era!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The half a dozen BPHS floating in the market available a

> > dozen

> > > a

> > > > dime

> > > > > > are all concoctions in the name of Parashara, where one

> BPHS

> > > does

> > > > not

> > > > > > agree with another!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > For further details, please log on to

> > > > > > HinduCalendar.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Shri Sreenadh is already a member of that group.

> > > > > > Dhanyavad.

> > > > > > AKK

> > > > > > --- In

, " Sreenadh "

> > > > > > <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Did you know? You can CHAT without downloading

messenger.

> > Know

> > > > how!

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>