Dear Bharat

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Dear Bharat, At the outset , Thanks a lot , for your support and solidarity with me, for the cause of Nirayana Zodiac and to thwart the effort of pedants commited to denigrate it. I take note of your resplendent views on Nirayana Zodiac duly quoting Holy Vedas , for which , Sri Kishen Kaul alias Mohan Jyotishi ,has No answer. It is quite unfortunate, Sri Kaul, a Kashmiri Pandit by birth, in the guise of rational thinking , unwittingly is playing into the hands of detractors of Jyotish. Today , Sreenadh rang up and he broach the entire issue of different Zodiac and his views about it,

with me.. As desired by your good self and Sreenadh , I am back in the list. With Warm Personal Regards, Madhu Nair Bharat Hindu Astrology <hinduastrology wrote: Namaste Sri KaulA discussion takes

place when:1. I am a learner and a student of yours or you are a learner and student of mine2. Both of us are open to learning, exploring.3. If you are a knower of something that I seek or I am a knower of something that you seek and we ask the knower. You and I do not satisfy any of the criteria. You are pre-decided on most things. You have not answered close to 20 queries put up by me OR more than 50 by others. You cannot expect us to answer your misplaced contentions, especially when you have no attitude nor openness for learning. I am not busy for seeking knowledge or for sharing it, but, I would rather not waste time with another useless debate with you. Infact, if you notice, I was not even discussing with you. I was discussing with Sri Madhu and Sri Sreenadh. Thanks and RegardsBharat On 6/16/07, Avtar Krishen Kaul <a_krishen > wrote: Shri Bharat ji,Namaskar!First of all I must congratulate Shri Sreemadhji for keeping the posts on this forum unmoderated! It needs really an open mind to do so!Now coming to your points:I have never asked anyone to agree with me or even disagree with me, for that matter. In a democracy, anybody is at liberty to cherish any system for being fleeced by charlatans or fleecing others! I am no cop, please rest assured! The problem arises only when we say that these gimmicks of predictions are based on the Vedas and have been revealed by Rishis like Prashara and Brighu etc. etc. Naturally, anybody making such claims will have to substantiate them with chapter and verse and not just go on

repeating "Jyotish is Vedic", "Jyotish is based on what Maharshi Prashara has said" and so on and so forth! Kindly go through all the files that I have uploaded on this forum and do give a point by point reply. If you take time out to peruse them patiently (Koshur6), you will see that I was sailing in the same boat as you are sailing today! In other words, I was a more stauch "nirayana astrologer" for quite a few years than nyybody else! Later on, with equal vehemence, I becamse a firm believer in "Sayana Vedic astrology" for several years! Since nobody, including the "Vedic jyotishis" themselves, whether sayana or nirayana, has as yet been able to pinpoint the existence of Mesha, Vrisha etc. astrological rashis, leave alone sayana or nirayana, in any of the Vedas or the Vedanga Jyotisha or the Yajur Jyotisha or even Atharva Jyotisha, obviously, we have been taken for a ride for quite some time by such charlatans

as claim that the Vedas talk of nothing else but predictive gimmicks!It may perhaps be a "revelation" to you that we do not find any mention of the much dreaded Mangal and Shani either in any of the Vedas or any of the Vedic astronomical works! I wonder whether you know that except for Maya the mlechha's Surya Sidhanta, no other sidhanta of even the Panchasidhantika refers to any Rashis or Mangal, Shani etc. planets even by mistake! To crown it all, the Surya Sidhanta of Panchasidhantika is the most inaccurate astronomical work that could have been produced by anybody! Ironically, Varahamihira found that very Surya Sidhanta to be the most accurate - spashta taro savitrah! Varahamhira is supposed to have been the greatest Indian astrologer of all times! Naturally, if someone can make correct predictions from incorrect data, he certainly is a charlatan than anything else! Thus you can say that "Varahamihira was the

greatest charlatan of Indian astrology of all times". There was a genetleman in twentieth century also who could make coorect predictions about "notable horoscopes" with incorrect data. He was also known as the greatest Vedic astrologer of the twentieth century! That much for Indian astrology!Dhanyavad. , "Bharat Hindu Astrology" <hinduastrology wrote:>> Namaste Sri Sreenadh> > Forcing a concept down the throat is not the way of a Scholar. Nor does a> Scholar is one who has such a closed mind, who cannot accept that views> other than his own can exist. There a vast difference between a true scholar> who pursues knowledge knowing that Ignorance is so vast that he better be> humble.>

> By giving useless logic and wrong translations and without answering any> queries, one does not become a Scholar.> > I reserve my judgment about this person and his "lookalikes" > > Thanks and Regards> Bharat> > On 6/15/07, Sreenadh <sreesog wrote:> >> > Dear Bharat ji,> > "Sri Kaul and his belief system" => That is cute terminology. > > ==>> > > He uses sarcasm and calls names to those who does not agree to his> > > thinking.> > <==> > That is not good - if he does so.> > ==>> > > He is trying to force his way around in proving all> > > others are wrong.> > <==> > That is quite natural for a scholar - and he is I assure.> >> > ==>> > >

Another such a character is Mohan Jyotishi.> > <==> > Are they two different characters; or just another id of Kaul itself?> >> > ==>> > > You need not leave group and help serve their purpose. Rather stay> > > and enjoy their mostly baseless contentions.> > <==> >> > I agree to the first statement and stand by the same. But would> > disagree to the second, since Kaul's arguments also has some> > supportive evidence, like a person seeing a 2 colored kite from only> > one side. The truth is both Sayana and Nirayana system existed in> > Vedic period, and also that Nirayana system of astrology is more of> > Tantric origin than of Vedic. But let us not fight over terminology> > but rather search the fruits of it, so that it would be of some use> > to us.> > Love,>

> Sreenadh> >> > <%40>, > > "Bharat Hindu> > Astrology" <hinduastrology@> wrote:> > >> > > Namaste Sri Madhu> > >> > > I have had discussions with Sri Kaul and his belief system. I did> > not agree> > > to it and still call Vedic Astrology as Vedic only. He uses sarcasm> > and> > > calls names to those who does not agree to his thinking. He is> > trying to> > > force his way around in proving all others are wrong. He has done> > so in> > > various lists. In fact, Sri Windhall

wrote an excellent reply to his> > > contentions, to which he did not reply.> > >> > > Another such a character is Mohan Jyotishi. There is no point> > discussing> > > things with them. They are no one to determine whether Astrology is> > Vedic or> > > not. I am born to the culture and shall call it Vedic, including> > astrology.> > >> > > You need not leave group and help serve their purpose. Rather stay> > and enjoy> > > their mostly baseless contentions.> > >> > > Thanks and Regards> > > Bharat> > >> > > On 6/15/07, Balagurusurya <balagurusurya@> wrote:> > > >> > > > Dear Sreenadh ,> > > > When I wrote a reply to Kishen Kaul,I meant No offence to him.> > > > I just suggested

to verify the meaning of " Parashara " with a> > > > learned Sanskrit scholar, since I understand that one meaning> > > > attributed to "Parashara' is "The Liberated one" , that means ,> > > > Parashara can never be a single person & BPHS may be a> > contribution> > > > of several realised souls .> > > > Unfortunately , he was finding fault with my English. I could> > > > clearly make out his sarcastic note of my English.> > > > I was under the presumption that the list was meant for learning> > > > Jyotish. Now I realise it is for learning flowery English> > Language. I> > > > know Kishen Kaul and his known hostility to Nirayana Zodiac .If I> > > > recollect correctly, VSK reviewed his ephemeris, years back .> > > >> > > > Anyway, I am sure ,

as Mohan or in some other alias he will> > return to> > > > vent his spite. I don't have the Time to fight neither I wish to> > > > be the target of someone in nomdeplume .> > > >> > > > Once I left your list but returned ,as desired by you, Kumar and> > > > some other members who are my friends.> > > >> > > > I don't want to be a disruptive influence in your list .> > > > I am sure the list will progress to new horizon ,under your able> > > > guidance> > > > All the Best> > > > Signing off> > > >> > > > Madhu> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> >> > > >>

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