Please come to real issue(Calendar Reform Committee's - Erroneous approach)

[Guest guest]

Dear Kaul ji,

I can imagine how the things went.

 

The following note attracted my special attention.

==>

> However, after going through the Report of the Calendar Reform

> Committee of Dr. M. N. Saha; and Bharatiya Jyotisha Shastra of S B

> Dikshit and the works of several other Indian scholars, who had no

> axe to grind, I was surprised to find that all of them claimed that

> there were no Rashis in the Vedas, Upanishadas, Brahmans etc. etc.

> but they were just imports from Babylon via Greeks! Instead of

> just taking those statements at their face value, I studied all the

> Vedas and other shastras personally and was surprised to

> find that there were actually no rashis in those shastras!

<==

Dear Kaul ji, please note that there is some body in the same plane

but who took a different rute. Some body who had dedicated almost

half of a dictionary like big book to discuss the " Recommendations

and Observations " of Calendar Reform Committee alone. I am referring

to Chandra Hai and his book 'Hindu Zodiac' in which your efforts are

also amply referenced. I will try to get a copy of the book and

provide it to you. May be at least the observation about 'Surya

Sidhanta' may change.

Please note that the view of the " Calendar Reform Committee " headed

by Saha could have been primarily got corrupted because-

1) He never hand any direct understanding of the theoretical

foundations of the Indian astronomical system or the real purpose of

big numbers such as the Yuga numbers. Even after the recommendations,

he was unaware of the real theoretical foundations of the Indian

system, or how the system evolved in India.

2)Lahari was a member of the " Calendar Reform Committee " and was

already publishing an " Ephemeris " and (there is all the possibility

that) the natural corruption ended up supporting the same for the

whole of India!

3) Note that Saha failed to provide enough or proper supporting

evidence for the use of Chitra as a star at 180 degree of the zodiac,

and also that he himself was aware of this fact.

 

So, before believing on the " findings " of the " Calendar Reform

Committee " headed by Saha, I think a scholarly study (please not

just 'reading') of the of the system, logic and theoretical

foundation used by the ancient astrological texts is a must; Which to

an extend is provided by Chandra Hari's work 'Hindu Zodiac'.

Two of you get irritated and become angry so easly - but I think

that is the common nature of the some peculiar type of geniuses. If

two of you co-operate, or at least study each others works, the

opinions may change. As you may know Chandra Hari is an ONGC Engineer

and not an (professional or even armature) astrologer who depends on

astrology for a living or have any vested interest on the same. His

interest in astronomy/astrology is also purely intellectual. He is

very good in astronomical mathematics and most of his contributions

are in that direction. He has published several other books -

commentaries of Hari Nama Kertana etc - which is not relevant here.

He too with the help of one of my Kerala friend " Srinivasan " who is

well versed in ancient style of astronomical mathematics [even done

instantaneously from memory using shells alone - they don't even need

an ephemeris to calculate the planetary position! All the steps for

calculation as per " Drikganita " style is by heart to them] started

publishing a new Panchaga (Ephemeris) as per True Ayanamsa (based on

Surya sidhanta and proposed by Chandrahari). I should add that the

sale -- similar to almost all of his books :=) --- failed miserably

but still due to dedication to the subject I think he is going to

invest his hard earned salary on such publishing efforts in future as

well. :=)

 

* So being the people in similar boat -- going in different

directions -- even though the aim is the same (i.e. Calendar Reform);

you too may have much to share.

 

* But in all my conversations I will pray both of you to be polite,

but still even though with all my positive spirit I may hope the same

to happen, after seeing the attitudes of both of you, I can only pray

to god! Oh! God! Let them make children and to fight and forget it in

the next moment and then too be good friends. :=)

 

* At the end the point is - the book " Hindu Zodic " discusses the

recommendations as well as the pit falls committed by " Calendar

Reform Committee " headed by Saha and there for could be of interest

to you.

 

Note: By the way, Chandrahari is almost equally psychic like you,

otherwise who will publish an encyclopedia like book to deal with a

singe subject, Hindu Zodiac, pubish it by spending money from own

pocket and try to sell it for Rs.600 per book!! I don't think not

even 25% of that book got sold, or even if it did, he might not have

got even 10% of the money back. :=) Even I was asking for a free

copy, and read it free from taking if from 'Srinivasan', and yet to

buy it. Or possibly never by it since 'Chandra Hari' had already

promised me a free copy. I couldn't grasp almost half of the book,

because I am an still an elementary student on ancient Indian

astronomy. :=) If that is my condition, I wonder what would be the

condition of other common people who are reading that book!

By now fore sure you might have guessed that the money of Chandra

Hari spend of publishing " Hindu Zodiac " is gone(!) even though he may

retort that he don't mind! He is also after Tantra, possibly like you

(I don't know much about your Upasana methods) - and may retort, " It

is for Davi " .

* In the files section of this group inside the folder

named " ChandraHari " you will find a

document " Basics_of_the_Ayanamsa_Dispute.doc " which is nothing but

some of the initial chapters of Hari's book " Hindu Zodiac " . Those

detailed discussion about the recommendations of " Calendar reform

committee " you will find in that document.

* What ever I could make out (with my feeble brain) about the

mathematical conclusions and directions he provide in his book is

present in the article " Hindu Zodiac.pdf " present inside the files

section of the forum inside the " Sreenadh " folder.

Hope this helps.

Love,

Sreenadh

 

, " jyotirved "

<jyotirved wrote:

>

> HinduCalendar

[HinduCalendar ]

> On Behalf Of jyotirved

>

> Shri Darshaney Lokeshji,

>

> Namaskar!

>

> Please go through my posts again. You have given transit timings as

> topocentric for Delhi in your " Tithi Patrak " . Even the examples

you have

> quoted are wrong. You have said

>

> <I have checked some timing as per the Swiss Ephemeris. For example

today

> 11/06/2007 moon transit is correct. 21 June, sun's transit' 05 June

Venus

> transit, 25 June mars transit 19 December Jupiter transit,

>

> However, as per the same Swiss Ephemeris that you are quoting,

Moon at 12

> hrs 32mts 42 secds (UT) for Delhi is Moon 0 ta 44' 53.6350.

Obviously,

> it has already covered about 45 arcminutes in Taurus at 18-12-42

(IST) when

> you say it entered into Taurus! That means it was roughly about two

hours

> back that it had entered Taurus!

>

> Similarly sun for June 21 at 18-7-9 UT is Sun 0 cn 0' 1.7032. It

means it

> is already over by about two arcseconds! (It takes sun about 24

seconds of

> time to cover one arcsecond. Thus it should have been 23hrs 36 mts

IST for

> topocentric ingress for Delhi. Why did you give ingress timings

even in

> seconds? Just to confuse a reader about the accuracy of your

panchanga,

> when you cannot give even the minute of solar ingress correctly?)

>

> Similarly Venus is supposed to have entered Simha at 23-29-11 (IST)

when as

> per the same Swiss Ephemeris it is Venus 29 cn 59 '59.9288

which

> means it is still in Cancer at that point of time!

>

> According to you Mars entered Taurus on June 25 at 3-54-32 IST

which means

> 22-24-32 of June 24, UT. Mars at that point of time was Mars 0 ta

> 1'44.8001. Thus it would have taken it more than about three hours

to enter

> into that sign! And you are supposed to have given even the ingress

second

> correctly!

>

> Similarly, you say Jupiter will enter Makar on December 19 at 1-41-

29 IST

> where Jupiter longitude at that time is Jupiter 29 sa

59'59.9608. In

> other words, it is still in Dhanus at that second of IST/UT

>

> That much for your accuracy!

>

> Your another point is

>

> <. I get you reminded your own and that too very latest

words, " Please

> rest assured that I have full faith in you regarding our calendar

> reform...... " Now, for you I have become a person who does not know

even the

> basics i.e. starting of bright and dark fortnights of a month? You

were not

> like this ever before. Is it forgotten that you have referred the

submitted

> panchang to many other members and uploaded the same to some other

groups

> also? May you be asked, why?>

>

> My dear Shri Lokesh ji, I am sure you know that our association has

been a

> professional one. You also know that I was a staunch believer in

nirayana

> panchangas and nirayana astrology for quite sometime, like you and

everybody

> else. With the passage of time, I came to the conclusion that the

so called

> nirayana Rashischakra - actually nirayana rashichakras galore -

were not at

> all feasible for our calendars. This I clarified through my various

> panchangas right from 1996 onwards till 2001. Even several years

after that,

> I laboured under the delusion that the Vedas were talking of a so

called

> Sayana Rashichakra! You and Shri Mahtolia and many others felt the

same

> thing. All of us had another common purpose also then -- to

propagate the

> " real Vedic Jyotish " since all of us, including myself, were under

the

> confusion that the Vedas are talking of nothing but Sayana Jyotisha

> including Phalita Jyotisha! We joined our hands and heads together

and

> formed an " All India Calendar Reform Committee " at a much later

stage of

> which I was asked to be the President.

>

> However, after going through the Report of the Calendar Reform

Committee of

> Dr. M. N. Saha; and Bharatiya Jyotisha Shastra of S B Dikshit and

the works

> of several other Indian scholars, who had no axe to grind, I was

surprised

> to find that all of them claimed that there were no Rashis in the

Vedas,

> Upanishadas, Brahmans etc. etc. but they were just imports from

Babylon via

> Greeks! Instead of just taking those statements at their face

value, I

> studied all the Vedas and other shastras personally and was

surprised to

> find that there were actually no rashis in those shastras! This I

brought

> to your and Shri Mahtolia's notice during our first meeting at my

house at

> Rohini. I had also made it very clear then that though it was a

> contradiction of my own stand of a few years' back, but I could not

help it

> since I could not go on advocating something for which there were

no proofs.

> At least my conscience would not allow it.

>

> In the meantime, you collected " applications " from about 20 people

who

> wanted to join the Akhil Bharatiya Panchanga Sudhara Samiti. When

I went

> through those " application forms " , I was surprised to see that all

of them

> were actually phalit jyotishis and they were under the impression

that they

> would be able to earn more money by practising sayana phalit

jyotish in the

> name of Vedic jyotish, reforming the calendar being a time pass!

All of

> them seemed to be under the delusion that the Vedas were full of

Sayana

> Rashis and Sayana Phalit jyotish!

>

> I just did not want any such confusions that would defeat the very

purpose

> of the Samiti that instead of reforming the calendar we would just

deform it

> further by trying to link sayana rashis with the Vedic calendar

etc. As

> such, I sent a seven page letter in Hindi to all of them,

explaining to them

> in detail as to how we had been taken for a ride by the Greeks by

spreading

> their tentacles of astrology through Mesha etc. astrological Rashis

in

> India, which was later re-christened as " Vedic jyotish " by overseas

> " Vamadevas " . This letter is in the files section as " PSS.doc " even

today.

>

> You were much against my sending any such letter to anybody since,

as a hind

> sight, I feel that you knew that all those members wanted to

associate with

> the " Samiti " only to hone their astrological skills and increase

their money

> earning power by dint of " sayana Vedic jyotish " ! Not surprisingly,

I did

> not get any response from anybody, including you and Shri Dalip

Langoo or

> Shri Sanjay Kumar Mehta etc. etc. The only response I got was from

Shri

> Mahtolia and he had summed up his stand in the words that I was

acting more

> like Macaulay since I was denying Rashis and phalit jyotish in the

Vedas!

>

> That much for worthy Vic-Presidents and General Secretaries and

Treasurers

> and secretaries of the " Samiti " .

>

> Since nobody responded, it means technically the ABPSS comprised

just a

> President, a Vice-Presidnet, a General Secretary and Secretary,

though

> neither the GS nor the Secretary nor the Treasurer responded to the

letter!

> If the would be members could not muster courage to come clean of

their

> views in their own forums, how do you expect them to be ale to

convince

> others about the aims and goals of the Samiti?

>

> Then there was another bolt from the blue! Even if somehow or the

other, by

> hook or by crook, you just thrust the sayana Rashichakra down the

throat of

> unsuspecting public, you just could not link the real nakshatras

with those

> (Sayana) Rashis at any cost!

>

> I have explained all these points at least a hundred times through

various

> posts and mails on this forum. I had explained the same thing to

you during

> our last meeting at my house in Rohini.

>

> It appears to me you are deliberately evading the issue since it is

> impossible that you have not grasped the hopelessness of your stand

of

> including sayana Rashis and Sayana nakshatras in your panchanga for

muhurta

> and festivals etc. etc. Since you have decided to include sayana

planetary

> longitudes also in your panchanga next year, and since you are

presenting

> yourself as " General Secretary of Panchanga Sudhar Samiti " I just

do not

> want to associate myself in such an adharmic activity in any way

whatsoever.

> This I had explained to you in no uncertain terms before

withdrawing my

> association.

>

> We must not forget that the late N C Lahiri was also the Secretary

of the

> Saha Calendar Reform Committee. As is well known already, instead

of going

> by the real Vedic dictum, he just tried to sway every other member

in the

> favour of a so called Lahiri Rashichakra and he succeeded in it.

In other

> words, he succeeded in sabotaging the real calendar reform and

keeping his

> " Lahiri's Indian Ephemeris " and " Vishudha Sidhanta Panjika " a

perpetual

> breadwinner for himself and his offspring at the cost of Vedic

dharma. It

> appears that you as a general Secretary of a so called " Akhila

Bharatiya

> Panchanga Sudhara Samiti " are working on the same lines -- you are

more

> worried about the sales of your own Tithi Patrak than the actual

reform of

> Hindu calendar and muhurtas.

>

> All the remaining points raised by you are quite irrelevant about

reforming

> the calendar, since like Lahiri and Lahiriwalas, you are yourself

bent on

> " committing the entire Hindu society to adharma " on the shoulders

of " Akhila

> Bharatiya Panchanga Sudhar Samiti " Honestly, I have no good wishes

for you

> or your such a mission. On the other hand I will oppose any such

ahdarmic

> reforms with equal vehemence as I have been doing for Lahiri

Rashichakra and

> Lahiri festivals. And

>

> yatodharmas tato jayah!

>

> Dhnayavd.

>

> Avtar Krishen Kaul

>

>

>

>

>

> _____

>

> HinduCalendar

[HinduCalendar ]

> On Behalf Of darshaney lokesh

> Saturday, June 16, 2007 7:25 AM

> Avtar Krishen Kaul; Hindu Calander

> [HinduCalendar] Mohan Krity Arsh Tithi Patrak : Please

come to real

> issue

>

>

>

> Dear friends.

>

> This is resending of the message already

mailed.

> Please treat

>

> that one as cancelled due to wrong numbering of paras.Thanks.

>

>

> Darshaney Lokesh

>

>

>

> Respected kaul Ji,

>

> Namastey.

>

> Your reference message dt 17 May 07 has given me a sad

picture of

> your acting as an erudite person of the subject. The letter is

neither

> ethically nor purposely right. But before entering into the reply

with due

> respect and my humble submissions I'd like to request you ( as well

as to

> every member of HinduCalendar group) -

>

> 1. Plz. Go through the msg No. 1298 and a reply msg

dt 19 Sep

> 2007 of Er. Vibhu Vishwamitra Rawat.

>

> 2. Plz see msg No. 1315 dt 27/09/2006 wherein you have

> confirmed the recipt of printed panchanga by post. And for your

information

> the patrak was published in the month of April 2007 and if at all

there is

> such serious negligence on your side then you also can well imagine

that how

> much dangerous was it to trust on your president ship.

>

>

>

> 3. Sir, we had submitted the panchanga through internet and

printed copies

> by post to YOU and many of others like Patron, vice president and

> secretaries of the akhil bhartiya panchanga sudhar samiti, who are

equally

> learned of the subject.

>

>

>

> 4. Your congratulation letter, infact misguided us as we presumed

that you

> have thoroughly gone through the Panchanga as the president of the

samiti.

> Naturally you were needed to do so. Moreover when I personally

visited you

> at rohini you told me " Apki bhabhi ji ko to panchanga bahut pasand

aaya

> hai....... "

>

>

>

> 5. The panchanga was submitted to you in the month of September

andnow

> only on account of my mentions in reply to sh Narayan Prasad you

have not

> only resigned from the president ship of the samiti but also

dishonored me

> on the basis of printing mistakes/ deference of a few minutes for

which

> reasons were already explained and on that explanations you had not

reacted

> any way.

>

>

>

> 6. I have checked some timing as per the Swiss Ephemeris. For

example today

> 11/06/2007 moon transit is correct. 21 June, sun's transit' 05 June

Venus

> transit, 25 June mars transit 19 December Jupiter transit, 15

December true

> Rahu transit are correct. For 15 June 2007 the tithi, nakshtra and

yoga

> timings are correct as per even Swiss Ephemeris except in case of

the Oct

> 2007 as this page has been published uncorrected. I have taken a

responsible

> note of these things. A comparison chart is also being produced

hereunder. I

> would request my readers to expect a well progressed, error free

(as to the

> maximum capabilities of my own) and fully acceptable Patra next

year. In

> This Patra of the next year we are prepared to give the timings of

> Kshyatithi, nakshtras, lagnasarni for Delhi, daily planatery

> longitudes/latitudes/speed, ecliptical obliquity and nutation for

each day

> at the time of sunrise. These are the needs of a Patra and not of a

> Jantri.Giving planetary longitudes has an approval of Swami

Brahmanand ji

> Saraswati who is himself a Arya Samaji saint and has no faith in

predictive

> astrology.He says, " Loag to bhagyavadi hain hee aur agar apne

grahspasht

> nahin diye to unki newantam jaruraton ke liye bhi apka patra

bekarka hoga.

> Isliye grahspasht dene men koee burai nahin hai. "

>

>

Comparison Chart

>

>

> Date

>

> As Per Mahesh

>

> As Per Mohan Krity Arsh Tithi Patrak - 2007

>

>

>

>

> Th

>

> Time

>

> Nak

>

> Time

>

> Yoga

>

> Time

>

> Th

>

> Time

>

> Nak

>

> Time

>

> Yoga

>

> Time

>

>

> 1/3/2007

>

> 13

>

> 25:19:56

>

> MA

>

> 18:32:08

>

> DH

>

> 5:40:24

>

> 13

>

> 25:20

>

> MA

>

> 18:34

>

> DH

>

> 5:39

>

>

> 1/4/2007

>

> 14

>

> 20:12:21

>

> HA

>

> 7:44:51

>

> HA

>

> 12:08:05

>

> 14

>

> 20:12

>

> HA

>

> 7:44

>

> HA

>

> 12:07

>

>

> 1/5/2007

>

> 14

>

> 13:18:55

>

> VI

>

> 22:56:10

>

> PA

>

> 21:08:10

>

> 14

>

> 13:17

>

> VI

>

> 22:55

>

> PA

>

> 21:07

>

>

> 1/6/2007

>

> 15

>

> 6:34:34

>

> MU

>

> 12:40:09

>

> SH

>

> 5:52:15

>

> 15

>

> 6:33

>

> MU

>

> 12:37

>

> SH

>

> 5:50

>

>

> 1/7/2007

>

> 16

>

> 19:11:41

>

> SH

>

> 22:48:14

>

> PR

>

> 12:16:47

>

> 16

>

> 19:07

>

> SH

>

> 22:44

>

> PR

>

> 12:13

>

>

> 1/8/2007

>

> 18

>

> 25:07:47

>

> PB

>

> 4:55:16

>

> DH

>

> 12:51:59

>

> 18

>

> 25:05

>

> PB

>

> 27:37

>

> DH

>

> 12:48

>

>

> 1/9/2007

>

> 20

>

> 25:54:17

>

> BH

>

> 5:37:55

>

> HA

>

> 8:24:24

>

> 20

>

> 25:59

>

> BH

>

> 5:36

>

> HA

>

> 8:23

>

>

> 1/11/2007

>

> 22

>

> 14:51:24

>

> SH

>

> 10:19:03

>

> AI

>

> 24:19:07

>

> 22

>

> 15:02

>

> SH

>

> 10:21

>

> AI

>

> 24:21

>

>

> 1/12/2007

>

> 22

>

> 5:47:59

>

> UP

>

> 20:17:39

>

> SA

>

> 28:01:02

>

> 22

>

> 5:47

>

> UP

>

> 20:21

>

> SA

>

> 28:00

>

>

> 1/1/2008

>

> 24

>

> 28:51:25

>

> SW

>

> 10:52:04

>

> SH

>

> 10:35:00

>

> 24

>

> 28:50

>

> SW

>

> 10:52

>

> SH

>

> 10:35

>

>

> 1/2/2008

>

> 25

>

> 28:41:36

>

> MU

>

> 30:26:03

>

> VA

>

> 19:34:32

>

> 25

>

> 28:38

>

> MU

>

> 30:22

>

> VA

>

> 19:31

>

>

> 1/3/2008

>

> 24

>

> 23:05:37

>

> PA

>

> 17:26:56

>

> PA

>

> 27:18:33

>

> 24

>

> 23:03

>

> PA

>

> 17:23

>

> PA

>

> 27:16

>

>

> 1/3/2008

>

> 24

>

> 23:05:37

>

> PA

>

> 17:26:56

>

> PA

>

> 27:18:33

>

> 24

>

> 23:03

>

> PA

>

> 17:23

>

> PA

>

> 27:16

>

>

>

>

>

> 7. Some of the mistakes found in the patrak have been noticed on

account of

> publisher/printing and my own. A correction letter has already been

issued

> on 27th of April 2007. The letter is in Hindi (Krutidev 12 font)

and is

> attached herewith for information in support and covers almost all

the real

> mistakes. Even a second correction letter may be issued later.

>

>

>

> 8. I get you reminded your own and that too very latest

words, " Please

> rest assured that I have full faith in you regarding our calendar

> reform...... " Now, for you I have become a person who does not know

even the

> basics i.e. starting of bright and dark fortnights of a month? You

were not

> like this ever before. Is it forgotten that you have referred the

submitted

> panchang to many other members and uploaded the same to some other

groups

> also? May you be asked, why?

>

>

>

> 9. " Mohan krity Arsh Tithi patrak samvat 2007 " was my first

attempt of

> publishing any book and calculating the panchanga details under the

> guidelines from you and other learned of the samiti. I would like

you to get

> again reminded that in your Panchanga of 2001 you have given 31

days to the

> month of February. In a very important letter to all of the members

of the

> samiti you have mentioned Hemant sampat as a day of equal day and

neight

> duration. I am not intended to make fun of you nor I was ever

before. I know

> that these are just like the slip of pen and have no correlation

with the

> knowledge of you, a person of highly profiled and quoted

credentials.

>

>

>

> 10. Sir, many a times I have advised you for not making fun of

others like

> ALMIGHTY LAHIRI, KALIYUGI VEDIC JYOTISHI, TAPASWANI etc and that too

> repeatedly in a monotonous way because it gives reflection of

ethical dwarf

> ness and to others it becomes a matter of their wider recognition.

You are

> in fact not a sagacious person that's why in a mannered way I had

requested

> you to think twice before you speak and thrice before you write any

thing.

> The Patrak was got published from Dwarka New Delhi. My main problem

remained

> that I could not pay more than two visits from here i.e. Greater

Noida. Most

> of the time I had to explain my things to the publisher only on

phone.

> Earlier the names of the Krishan Pakshas were as per the pattern

adopted by

> you in your panchangas. Later after vast consideration and on the

> suggessions of Mr BD Mahtolia Only Amant./ Shukladi system was

accepted. The

> publisher could not do that amendments properly and thus left a

room for

> almost all the paragraphs of your message I wish if you could have

used your

> common sense and at least contacted me on phone!

>

>

>

> 11. If you could believe me during last four years by about

Rs.93000.00, I

> have expensed from my own for propagating the calendar reform. No

member of

> the samiti has ever contributed even a sum of Rs 100. Not a single

copy of

> the panchanga has been sold so far. Even the distributors at Delhi,

> Moradabad, Meerut, Koatdwar and Dehradun have been supplied free

copies. I

> should thank GOD that I am well prepared for the five years ahead

for

> continuing the publication of " Shri Mohan Krity Arsh Tithi Patra. "

>

>

>

> 12. Accept that of planetary longitudes most of your suggestions

vide msg

> NO. 1298 are being observed. As I have already told you that many

members

> and Swami Brahmananda ji are in favor for daily planetary

longitudes.So for

> the timings of Moon, you know better of the reasons behind the

difference.

> " Seconds " were dropped under your suggestion and we have not

rounded off the

> figures but hide them as such.

>

>

>

>

>

> 13. Sir, regarding Krishnadi or Amant system of naming lunar

months already

> we discussed and finally disagreed. You are in favor of Krishnadi

system for

> north India in fact in astrological areas we are not in favor of

keeping the

> differences like north/south India or Hindi/non Hindi belt etc.

Already we

> are too much divided and now what is needed is to get ourselves

united. I'd

> like you to get reminded that once in a discussion you told

me " Darshaney ji

> dono hi sidhant vedic hain aur kam se kam itni baat abhi rehne dete

hain

> anyatha ye loag kahenge ki ye to hamari zad he katne per tule

hain. " I

> requested you in reply " Jab hum reformation laa hee rahen hain to

ise kiston

> main na laker poori baat ko ek hee bar utha dena kaee accha hai. "

Logically

> I am strict on counting of Poornimant/Shukladi system because

Shrishtiyadi

> is itself shukladi and for that I'll be requesting every Hindu to

be logical

> and Vedic and hence correct.Not for my personal sake but for the

sake of the

> project, principles and ultimately for the calendar reform which

the Hindus

> need today, my request to you is to please continue co-operation.

Off

> course, this is my last request as this reminds me " Payah paAnam

> bhujangaAnam..... . "

>

>

>

> 14. The bone of contention has become the astrology i.e

predictive mode

> of astronomy. I want to make it clear that we understand the sense

of your

> sermons against it. I have myself raised a doubt on the function of

> astrology as you may see my letter, years before, addressed to shri

US Arya

> of Dehradun. Even yet at this immature stage of today I am against

stopping

> developments, experiences and researches in this field.

Possibilities of the

> development should be kept always open. Question does not arise of

it's

> being vedic or non vedic. Therefore, till we all reach to the

acceptable

> conclusion we should keep aside the predictive astronomy. Had this

not been

> the issue then certainly sciences like homeopathy, acupressure and

reki etc

> would have never come in the recognition. Obviously, present

astrology is

> not a science for its acceptance of so many unscientific bases. You

can

> bring out all such bases instead of discarding astrology itself.

>

>

>

> 15. For me 'Sayana' is not the zero ayanamsha but sayana is the

master

> factor for allocation of earth's situation with relation to the

sun. So, any

> astro calculation for earth based purpose should necessarily be

sayana and

> not non-sayana. Sayan Mesh sankranti i.e. zero degree of the zodiac

is an

> event which can be measured and visualized even at the moment of its

> happening and hence it is more acceptable. Since Uttarayan is a

declination

> based conditional phenomena therefore, 270 degrees there from, it

is makar

> sankranti i.e. the start of Uttarayana. As given in our reference

Patrak ,

> Mesh sankranti occurred on 21/03/07 at 05/35/18 Hrs IST and Makar

Sankranti

> will be occurring at 11/37/06 Hrs IST of 22/12/07. These are

topocentric

> ingresses timings for Deli Lats/Longs and are also confirmed from

Swiss

> Ephemeris.

>

>

>

> 16. Sir, acceptance of Rashis is a truth for calculation purposes

even if

> these being imaginary like Longitudes which have no mark anywhere.

After all

> we are identifying certain place in sky or say ZODIAC with the help

of these

> rashis. These are measured from zero point of zodiac and there is

no harm in

> accepting zero degree aries as zero degree ashwini because

imaginary signs

> must have their imaginary nakshtras. Days (Sunday,maonday.....),

Rashis and

> such nakshtras of astrological zodiac all are quite framed and

accepted at

> different stages of kaAlkram (samey chakra). These are not vedic but

> definitely traced or fixed or adopted by vedic persons and use of

these

> things have benefited the mankind which is the sole purpose of any

> knowledge. Anyhow let's be guided by our own age and experiences.

So keep

> predictive astrology forgotten and do keep continue for calendar

reform if

> at all you really desire so.

>

>

>

> 17. Sir, calling the Akhil Bhartiya Panchanga Sudhar Samiti a

DEFUNCT is

> really laughable. It was functional because you were president and

now it is

> defunct because you are not at that! Is it so? Better we free

ourselves from

> such proud and come out to stand on realities.

>

>

>

> 18. And at last - if I Informed the members that samvat 2065

starts from

> Saturday 08th March 2008, in which sense it was unpleasant to you.

Is it

> wrong?

>

>

>

> Aum Sham.

>

> With regards

>

>

>

> Darshaney Lokesh

>

> Genl.Secretary

>

> A.B.Panchanga Sudhar samiti

>

> Greater Noida(UP) -201308

>

>

>

>

>

> .

>

>

> <http://geo./serv?

s=97359714/grpId=13815029/grpspId=1705075991/msgI

> d=2067/stime=1181958957/nc1=3848544/nc2=4507179/nc3=3848568>

>

[Guest guest]

Shri Sreenadhji,

Namaskar!

 

<I am referring to Chandra Hai and his book 'Hindu Zodiac' in which

your efforts are also amply referenced.>

 

I know Shri Chandra Hari peronally. He was kind enough to come to

my house at Rohini and give me a copy of his Hindu Zodiac with his

compliments. I have gone through that book and noted his comments

about my stand regarding zero ayanamsha etc!

 

You must have noted through my various posts that I keep on exposing

my own erlier half-baked theories with later discoveries! The

imputs for all those changes are from different quarters. Since as

on date, I find that there are no Mesha etc. Rashis in the Vedas or

Brahamanas or Upanashidas or the Vedangas, it is futile to quibble

as to which ayanamsha, including zero ayanamsha, is correct and why

as far as Vedic astrology goes!

 

Your next point is:

< Please note that the view of the " Calendar Reform Committee "

headed

> by Saha could have been primarily got corrupted because-

> 1) He never hand any direct understanding of the theoretical

> foundations of the Indian astronomical system or the real purpose

of

> big numbers such as the Yuga numbers. Even after the

recommendations,

> he was unaware of the real theoretical foundations of the Indian

> system, or how the system evolved in India.>

 

I have made it very clear in my mails that I did not take the

statements of Dr. Saha or S. B. Dikshit or any other scholar, for

that matter, at the face value but delved deeper and deeper into the

Vedas and other shastras myself, if only to prove all those scholars

wrong! Similarly, I have gone through all the prominent sidhantas

viz. the Panchasidhantika, the Surya Sidhanta, the 'Aryabhati, the

vateshwara Sidhanta, the Lall Tantra etc. etc. besides the last

Indian sidhanta viz. Sidhanta Shiromani of Bhaskaracharya. I have

even studied the Grahalaghava! However, I was caught on the wrong

foot and to my dismay found that there were really no Rashis in any

of the Vedas or the Vedangas or even the indigenous sidhantas like

Pitamaha Sidhanta etc. As such, unless I am able to vindicate my

stand to the contrary i.e. unless I am able to prove that there are

Mesha etc. Rashis in the Vedas or the Upanishadas or the Vedanga

Jyotisha etc. etc. I cannot fault such scholars like S B Dikshit or

Dr. Gorakh Prasad etc. etc. or even Prof. Daftary, for that matter!

There are quite a few Sanskrit scholars from south India also who

are of the same view i.e. there are no rashis in the Vedas and

astrology is a bane for India that came from outside!

 

The term " Vedic astrology " was coined by a videshi Vamadeva and it

was lapped by Indian jyotishis so that they could market their

phalit jyotisha in overseas countires as anything in the name of

Vedic has a better chance of selling there than just " Hindu " . As

such, Hindu astrology was re-christened as Vedic astrology in the

seventies of the last century. Even the " greatest Vedic astrologer "

of the last century has not been able to quote even a single Vedic

mantra that could enumerate Mesha etc. Rashis,or Mangal, Shani etc.

planets in the Vedas, though he went or " parroting " the word " Vedic

astrology " , " Vedic astrology " . Naturally, if someone claims to be

an authority on a subject and then fails to quote even a single

pramana for the same, his credentials do become suspect!

 

As far as I am concerned, it is immaterial as to whether it is known

as Vedic astrology or Pauranic astrology or astrology by

charlatans -- the problem arises that I get into a headlong

conflict with all the jyotishis -- whether sayana or nirayana --

when it comes to streamlining the Hindu calendar! The ironical part

is that we do not need any Mesha etc. Rashis -- whether sayana or

nirayana -- for our real Vedic calendars -- as is evident from the

Vedanga Jyotisha, the Yajur Jyotisha, the Atharva Jyotisha and the

Pitamaha Sidhanta etc. etc. But since the business of calendar

making has been monoplozied by " Vedic jyotishis " and " Vedic

panchanga-makers " we as Hindus are left high and dry and made to

celebrate all our festivals on wrong days and marriages during the

actual shradhapaksha and shradhapaksha during a period that may

actually be auspicious for marriages! In fact, we are forced to

celebrate Pitramavasya on the day of actual Dipavali, thanks to

these " Vedic Jyotishis " . I cannot let such a situation continue,

even if I have to wage a " thosand year war " for the same and that

also sinngle handed!

Regards,

AKK

PS I am posting a separate letter as to why we do not need any Mesha

etc. Rashis for steamlining our calendars.

AKK

 

 

, " Sreenadh "

<sreesog wrote:

>

> Dear Kaul ji,

> I can imagine how the things went.

>

> The following note attracted my special attention.

> ==>

> > However, after going through the Report of the Calendar Reform

> > Committee of Dr. M. N. Saha; and Bharatiya Jyotisha Shastra of S

B

> > Dikshit and the works of several other Indian scholars, who had

no

> > axe to grind, I was surprised to find that all of them claimed

that

> > there were no Rashis in the Vedas, Upanishadas, Brahmans etc.

etc.

> > but they were just imports from Babylon via Greeks! Instead of

> > just taking those statements at their face value, I studied all

the

> > Vedas and other shastras personally and was surprised to

> > find that there were actually no rashis in those shastras!

> <==

> Dear Kaul ji, please note that there is some body in the same

plane

> but who took a different rute. Some body who had dedicated almost

> half of a dictionary like big book to discuss the " Recommendations

> and Observations " of Calendar Reform Committee alone. I am

referring

> to Chandra Hai and his book 'Hindu Zodiac' in which your efforts

are

> also amply referenced. I will try to get a copy of the book and

> provide it to you. May be at least the observation about 'Surya

> Sidhanta' may change.

> Please note that the view of the " Calendar Reform Committee "

headed

> by Saha could have been primarily got corrupted because-

> 1) He never hand any direct understanding of the theoretical

> foundations of the Indian astronomical system or the real purpose

of

> big numbers such as the Yuga numbers. Even after the

recommendations,

> he was unaware of the real theoretical foundations of the Indian

> system, or how the system evolved in India.

> 2)Lahari was a member of the " Calendar Reform Committee " and was

> already publishing an " Ephemeris " and (there is all the

possibility

> that) the natural corruption ended up supporting the same for the

> whole of India!

> 3) Note that Saha failed to provide enough or proper supporting

> evidence for the use of Chitra as a star at 180 degree of the

zodiac,

> and also that he himself was aware of this fact.

>

> So, before believing on the " findings " of the " Calendar Reform

> Committee " headed by Saha, I think a scholarly study (please not

> just 'reading') of the of the system, logic and theoretical

> foundation used by the ancient astrological texts is a must; Which

to

> an extend is provided by Chandra Hari's work 'Hindu Zodiac'.

> Two of you get irritated and become angry so easly - but I think

> that is the common nature of the some peculiar type of geniuses.

If

> two of you co-operate, or at least study each others works, the

> opinions may change. As you may know Chandra Hari is an ONGC

Engineer

> and not an (professional or even armature) astrologer who depends

on

> astrology for a living or have any vested interest on the same.

His

> interest in astronomy/astrology is also purely intellectual. He is

> very good in astronomical mathematics and most of his

contributions

> are in that direction. He has published several other books -

> commentaries of Hari Nama Kertana etc - which is not relevant

here.

> He too with the help of one of my Kerala friend " Srinivasan " who

is

> well versed in ancient style of astronomical mathematics [even

done

> instantaneously from memory using shells alone - they don't even

need

> an ephemeris to calculate the planetary position! All the steps

for

> calculation as per " Drikganita " style is by heart to them] started

> publishing a new Panchaga (Ephemeris) as per True Ayanamsa (based

on

> Surya sidhanta and proposed by Chandrahari). I should add that the

> sale -- similar to almost all of his books :=) --- failed

miserably

> but still due to dedication to the subject I think he is going to

> invest his hard earned salary on such publishing efforts in future

as

> well. :=)

>

> * So being the people in similar boat -- going in different

> directions -- even though the aim is the same (i.e. Calendar

Reform);

> you too may have much to share.

>

> * But in all my conversations I will pray both of you to be

polite,

> but still even though with all my positive spirit I may hope the

same

> to happen, after seeing the attitudes of both of you, I can only

pray

> to god! Oh! God! Let them make children and to fight and forget it

in

> the next moment and then too be good friends. :=)

>

> * At the end the point is - the book " Hindu Zodic " discusses the

> recommendations as well as the pit falls committed by " Calendar

> Reform Committee " headed by Saha and there for could be of

interest

> to you.

>

> Note: By the way, Chandrahari is almost equally psychic like you,

> otherwise who will publish an encyclopedia like book to deal with

a

> singe subject, Hindu Zodiac, pubish it by spending money from own

> pocket and try to sell it for Rs.600 per book!! I don't think not

> even 25% of that book got sold, or even if it did, he might not

have

> got even 10% of the money back. :=) Even I was asking for a free

> copy, and read it free from taking if from 'Srinivasan', and yet

to

> buy it. Or possibly never by it since 'Chandra Hari' had already

> promised me a free copy. I couldn't grasp almost half of the

book,

> because I am an still an elementary student on ancient Indian

> astronomy. :=) If that is my condition, I wonder what would be the

> condition of other common people who are reading that book!

> By now fore sure you might have guessed that the money of

Chandra

> Hari spend of publishing " Hindu Zodiac " is gone(!) even though he

may

> retort that he don't mind! He is also after Tantra, possibly like

you

> (I don't know much about your Upasana methods) - and may

retort, " It

> is for Davi " .

> * In the files section of this group inside the folder

> named " ChandraHari " you will find a

> document " Basics_of_the_Ayanamsa_Dispute.doc " which is nothing but

> some of the initial chapters of Hari's book " Hindu Zodiac " . Those

> detailed discussion about the recommendations of " Calendar reform

> committee " you will find in that document.

> * What ever I could make out (with my feeble brain) about the

> mathematical conclusions and directions he provide in his book is

> present in the article " Hindu Zodiac.pdf " present inside the files

> section of the forum inside the " Sreenadh " folder.

> Hope this helps.

> Love,

> Sreenadh

>

> , " jyotirved "

> <jyotirved@> wrote:

> >

> > HinduCalendar

> [HinduCalendar ]

> > On Behalf Of jyotirved

> >

> > Shri Darshaney Lokeshji,

> >

> > Namaskar!

> >

> > Please go through my posts again. You have given transit

timings as

> > topocentric for Delhi in your " Tithi Patrak " . Even the examples

> you have

> > quoted are wrong. You have said

> >

> > <I have checked some timing as per the Swiss Ephemeris. For

example

> today

> > 11/06/2007 moon transit is correct. 21 June, sun's transit' 05

June

> Venus

> > transit, 25 June mars transit 19 December Jupiter transit,

> >

> > However, as per the same Swiss Ephemeris that you are quoting,

> Moon at 12

> > hrs 32mts 42 secds (UT) for Delhi is Moon 0 ta 44' 53.6350.

> Obviously,

> > it has already covered about 45 arcminutes in Taurus at 18-12-42

> (IST) when

> > you say it entered into Taurus! That means it was roughly about

two

> hours

> > back that it had entered Taurus!

> >

> > Similarly sun for June 21 at 18-7-9 UT is Sun 0 cn 0' 1.7032.

It

> means it

> > is already over by about two arcseconds! (It takes sun about 24

> seconds of

> > time to cover one arcsecond. Thus it should have been 23hrs 36

mts

> IST for

> > topocentric ingress for Delhi. Why did you give ingress timings

> even in

> > seconds? Just to confuse a reader about the accuracy of your

> panchanga,

> > when you cannot give even the minute of solar ingress correctly?)

> >

> > Similarly Venus is supposed to have entered Simha at 23-29-11

(IST)

> when as

> > per the same Swiss Ephemeris it is Venus 29 cn

59 '59.9288

> which

> > means it is still in Cancer at that point of time!

> >

> > According to you Mars entered Taurus on June 25 at 3-54-32 IST

> which means

> > 22-24-32 of June 24, UT. Mars at that point of time was Mars 0 ta

> > 1'44.8001. Thus it would have taken it more than about three

hours

> to enter

> > into that sign! And you are supposed to have given even the

ingress

> second

> > correctly!

> >

> > Similarly, you say Jupiter will enter Makar on December 19 at 1-

41-

> 29 IST

> > where Jupiter longitude at that time is Jupiter 29 sa

> 59'59.9608. In

> > other words, it is still in Dhanus at that second of IST/UT

> >

> > That much for your accuracy!

> >

> > Your another point is

> >

> > <. I get you reminded your own and that too very latest

> words, " Please

> > rest assured that I have full faith in you regarding our calendar

> > reform...... " Now, for you I have become a person who does not

know

> even the

> > basics i.e. starting of bright and dark fortnights of a month?

You

> were not

> > like this ever before. Is it forgotten that you have referred

the

> submitted

> > panchang to many other members and uploaded the same to some

other

> groups

> > also? May you be asked, why?>

> >

> > My dear Shri Lokesh ji, I am sure you know that our association

has

> been a

> > professional one. You also know that I was a staunch believer

in

> nirayana

> > panchangas and nirayana astrology for quite sometime, like you

and

> everybody

> > else. With the passage of time, I came to the conclusion that

the

> so called

> > nirayana Rashischakra - actually nirayana rashichakras galore -

> were not at

> > all feasible for our calendars. This I clarified through my

various

> > panchangas right from 1996 onwards till 2001. Even several years

> after that,

> > I laboured under the delusion that the Vedas were talking of a

so

> called

> > Sayana Rashichakra! You and Shri Mahtolia and many others felt

the

> same

> > thing. All of us had another common purpose also then -- to

> propagate the

> > " real Vedic Jyotish " since all of us, including myself, were

under

> the

> > confusion that the Vedas are talking of nothing but Sayana

Jyotisha

> > including Phalita Jyotisha! We joined our hands and heads

together

> and

> > formed an " All India Calendar Reform Committee " at a much later

> stage of

> > which I was asked to be the President.

> >

> > However, after going through the Report of the Calendar Reform

> Committee of

> > Dr. M. N. Saha; and Bharatiya Jyotisha Shastra of S B Dikshit

and

> the works

> > of several other Indian scholars, who had no axe to grind, I was

> surprised

> > to find that all of them claimed that there were no Rashis in

the

> Vedas,

> > Upanishadas, Brahmans etc. etc. but they were just imports from

> Babylon via

> > Greeks! Instead of just taking those statements at their face

> value, I

> > studied all the Vedas and other shastras personally and was

> surprised to

> > find that there were actually no rashis in those shastras! This

I

> brought

> > to your and Shri Mahtolia's notice during our first meeting at

my

> house at

> > Rohini. I had also made it very clear then that though it was a

> > contradiction of my own stand of a few years' back, but I could

not

> help it

> > since I could not go on advocating something for which there

were

> no proofs.

> > At least my conscience would not allow it.

> >

> > In the meantime, you collected " applications " from about 20

people

> who

> > wanted to join the Akhil Bharatiya Panchanga Sudhara Samiti.

When

> I went

> > through those " application forms " , I was surprised to see that

all

> of them

> > were actually phalit jyotishis and they were under the

impression

> that they

> > would be able to earn more money by practising sayana phalit

> jyotish in the

> > name of Vedic jyotish, reforming the calendar being a time

pass!

> All of

> > them seemed to be under the delusion that the Vedas were full of

> Sayana

> > Rashis and Sayana Phalit jyotish!

> >

> > I just did not want any such confusions that would defeat the

very

> purpose

> > of the Samiti that instead of reforming the calendar we would

just

> deform it

> > further by trying to link sayana rashis with the Vedic calendar

> etc. As

> > such, I sent a seven page letter in Hindi to all of them,

> explaining to them

> > in detail as to how we had been taken for a ride by the Greeks

by

> spreading

> > their tentacles of astrology through Mesha etc. astrological

Rashis

> in

> > India, which was later re-christened as " Vedic jyotish " by

overseas

> > " Vamadevas " . This letter is in the files section as " PSS.doc "

even

> today.

> >

> > You were much against my sending any such letter to anybody

since,

> as a hind

> > sight, I feel that you knew that all those members wanted to

> associate with

> > the " Samiti " only to hone their astrological skills and increase

> their money

> > earning power by dint of " sayana Vedic jyotish " ! Not

surprisingly,

> I did

> > not get any response from anybody, including you and Shri Dalip

> Langoo or

> > Shri Sanjay Kumar Mehta etc. etc. The only response I got was

from

> Shri

> > Mahtolia and he had summed up his stand in the words that I was

> acting more

> > like Macaulay since I was denying Rashis and phalit jyotish in

the

> Vedas!

> >

> > That much for worthy Vic-Presidents and General Secretaries and

> Treasurers

> > and secretaries of the " Samiti " .

> >

> > Since nobody responded, it means technically the ABPSS comprised

> just a

> > President, a Vice-Presidnet, a General Secretary and Secretary,

> though

> > neither the GS nor the Secretary nor the Treasurer responded to

the

> letter!

> > If the would be members could not muster courage to come clean

of

> their

> > views in their own forums, how do you expect them to be ale to

> convince

> > others about the aims and goals of the Samiti?

> >

> > Then there was another bolt from the blue! Even if somehow or

the

> other, by

> > hook or by crook, you just thrust the sayana Rashichakra down

the

> throat of

> > unsuspecting public, you just could not link the real nakshatras

> with those

> > (Sayana) Rashis at any cost!

> >

> > I have explained all these points at least a hundred times

through

> various

> > posts and mails on this forum. I had explained the same thing

to

> you during

> > our last meeting at my house in Rohini.

> >

> > It appears to me you are deliberately evading the issue since it

is

> > impossible that you have not grasped the hopelessness of your

stand

> of

> > including sayana Rashis and Sayana nakshatras in your panchanga

for

> muhurta

> > and festivals etc. etc. Since you have decided to include sayana

> planetary

> > longitudes also in your panchanga next year, and since you are

> presenting

> > yourself as " General Secretary of Panchanga Sudhar Samiti " I

just

> do not

> > want to associate myself in such an adharmic activity in any way

> whatsoever.

> > This I had explained to you in no uncertain terms before

> withdrawing my

> > association.

> >

> > We must not forget that the late N C Lahiri was also the

Secretary

> of the

> > Saha Calendar Reform Committee. As is well known already,

instead

> of going

> > by the real Vedic dictum, he just tried to sway every other

member

> in the

> > favour of a so called Lahiri Rashichakra and he succeeded in

it.

> In other

> > words, he succeeded in sabotaging the real calendar reform and

> keeping his

> > " Lahiri's Indian Ephemeris " and " Vishudha Sidhanta Panjika " a

> perpetual

> > breadwinner for himself and his offspring at the cost of Vedic

> dharma. It

> > appears that you as a general Secretary of a so called " Akhila

> Bharatiya

> > Panchanga Sudhara Samiti " are working on the same lines -- you

are

> more

> > worried about the sales of your own Tithi Patrak than the actual

> reform of

> > Hindu calendar and muhurtas.

> >

> > All the remaining points raised by you are quite irrelevant

about

> reforming

> > the calendar, since like Lahiri and Lahiriwalas, you are

yourself

> bent on

> > " committing the entire Hindu society to adharma " on the

shoulders

> of " Akhila

> > Bharatiya Panchanga Sudhar Samiti " Honestly, I have no good

wishes

> for you

> > or your such a mission. On the other hand I will oppose any such

> ahdarmic

> > reforms with equal vehemence as I have been doing for Lahiri

> Rashichakra and

> > Lahiri festivals. And

> >

> > yatodharmas tato jayah!

> >

> > Dhnayavd.

> >

> > Avtar Krishen Kaul

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > _____

> >

> > HinduCalendar

> [HinduCalendar ]

> > On Behalf Of darshaney lokesh

> > Saturday, June 16, 2007 7:25 AM

> > Avtar Krishen Kaul; Hindu Calander

> > [HinduCalendar] Mohan Krity Arsh Tithi Patrak : Please

> come to real

> > issue

> >

> >

> >

> > Dear friends.

> >

> > This is resending of the message already

> mailed.

> > Please treat

> >

> > that one as cancelled due to wrong numbering of paras.Thanks.

> >

> >

> > Darshaney Lokesh

> >

> >

> >

> > Respected kaul Ji,

> >

> > Namastey.

> >

> > Your reference message dt 17 May 07 has given me a sad

> picture of

> > your acting as an erudite person of the subject. The letter is

> neither

> > ethically nor purposely right. But before entering into the

reply

> with due

> > respect and my humble submissions I'd like to request you ( as

well

> as to

> > every member of HinduCalendar group) -

> >

> > 1. Plz. Go through the msg No. 1298 and a reply

msg

> dt 19 Sep

> > 2007 of Er. Vibhu Vishwamitra Rawat.

> >

> > 2. Plz see msg No. 1315 dt 27/09/2006 wherein you

have

> > confirmed the recipt of printed panchanga by post. And for your

> information

> > the patrak was published in the month of April 2007 and if at

all

> there is

> > such serious negligence on your side then you also can well

imagine

> that how

> > much dangerous was it to trust on your president ship.

> >

> >

> >

> > 3. Sir, we had submitted the panchanga through internet and

> printed copies

> > by post to YOU and many of others like Patron, vice president and

> > secretaries of the akhil bhartiya panchanga sudhar samiti, who

are

> equally

> > learned of the subject.

> >

> >

> >

> > 4. Your congratulation letter, infact misguided us as we

presumed

> that you

> > have thoroughly gone through the Panchanga as the president of

the

> samiti.

> > Naturally you were needed to do so. Moreover when I personally

> visited you

> > at rohini you told me " Apki bhabhi ji ko to panchanga bahut

pasand

> aaya

> > hai....... "

> >

> >

> >

> > 5. The panchanga was submitted to you in the month of

September

> andnow

> > only on account of my mentions in reply to sh Narayan Prasad you

> have not

> > only resigned from the president ship of the samiti but also

> dishonored me

> > on the basis of printing mistakes/ deference of a few minutes

for

> which

> > reasons were already explained and on that explanations you had

not

> reacted

> > any way.

> >

> >

> >

> > 6. I have checked some timing as per the Swiss Ephemeris. For

> example today

> > 11/06/2007 moon transit is correct. 21 June, sun's transit' 05

June

> Venus

> > transit, 25 June mars transit 19 December Jupiter transit, 15

> December true

> > Rahu transit are correct. For 15 June 2007 the tithi, nakshtra

and

> yoga

> > timings are correct as per even Swiss Ephemeris except in case

of

> the Oct

> > 2007 as this page has been published uncorrected. I have taken a

> responsible

> > note of these things. A comparison chart is also being produced

> hereunder. I

> > would request my readers to expect a well progressed, error free

> (as to the

> > maximum capabilities of my own) and fully acceptable Patra next

> year. In

> > This Patra of the next year we are prepared to give the timings

of

> > Kshyatithi, nakshtras, lagnasarni for Delhi, daily planatery

> > longitudes/latitudes/speed, ecliptical obliquity and nutation

for

> each day

> > at the time of sunrise. These are the needs of a Patra and not

of a

> > Jantri.Giving planetary longitudes has an approval of Swami

> Brahmanand ji

> > Saraswati who is himself a Arya Samaji saint and has no faith in

> predictive

> > astrology.He says, " Loag to bhagyavadi hain hee aur agar apne

> grahspasht

> > nahin diye to unki newantam jaruraton ke liye bhi apka patra

> bekarka hoga.

> > Isliye grahspasht dene men koee burai nahin hai. "

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Comparison Chart

> >

> >

> > Date

> >

> > As Per Mahesh

> >

> > As Per Mohan Krity Arsh Tithi Patrak - 2007

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Th

> >

> > Time

> >

> > Nak

> >

> > Time

> >

> > Yoga

> >

> > Time

> >

> > Th

> >

> > Time

> >

> > Nak

> >

> > Time

> >

> > Yoga

> >

> > Time

> >

> >

> > 1/3/2007

> >

> > 13

> >

> > 25:19:56

> >

> > MA

> >

> > 18:32:08

> >

> > DH

> >

> > 5:40:24

> >

> > 13

> >

> > 25:20

> >

> > MA

> >

> > 18:34

> >

> > DH

> >

> > 5:39

> >

> >

> > 1/4/2007

> >

> > 14

> >

> > 20:12:21

> >

> > HA

> >

> > 7:44:51

> >

> > HA

> >

> > 12:08:05

> >

> > 14

> >

> > 20:12

> >

> > HA

> >

> > 7:44

> >

> > HA

> >

> > 12:07

> >

> >

> > 1/5/2007

> >

> > 14

> >

> > 13:18:55

> >

> > VI

> >

> > 22:56:10

> >

> > PA

> >

> > 21:08:10

> >

> > 14

> >

> > 13:17

> >

> > VI

> >

> > 22:55

> >

> > PA

> >

> > 21:07

> >

> >

> > 1/6/2007

> >

> > 15

> >

> > 6:34:34

> >

> > MU

> >

> > 12:40:09

> >

> > SH

> >

> > 5:52:15

> >

> > 15

> >

> > 6:33

> >

> > MU

> >

> > 12:37

> >

> > SH

> >

> > 5:50

> >

> >

> > 1/7/2007

> >

> > 16

> >

> > 19:11:41

> >

> > SH

> >

> > 22:48:14

> >

> > PR

> >

> > 12:16:47

> >

> > 16

> >

> > 19:07

> >

> > SH

> >

> > 22:44

> >

> > PR

> >

> > 12:13

> >

> >

> > 1/8/2007

> >

> > 18

> >

> > 25:07:47

> >

> > PB

> >

> > 4:55:16

> >

> > DH

> >

> > 12:51:59

> >

> > 18

> >

> > 25:05

> >

> > PB

> >

> > 27:37

> >

> > DH

> >

> > 12:48

> >

> >

> > 1/9/2007

> >

> > 20

> >

> > 25:54:17

> >

> > BH

> >

> > 5:37:55

> >

> > HA

> >

> > 8:24:24

> >

> > 20

> >

> > 25:59

> >

> > BH

> >

> > 5:36

> >

> > HA

> >

> > 8:23

> >

> >

> > 1/11/2007

> >

> > 22

> >

> > 14:51:24

> >

> > SH

> >

> > 10:19:03

> >

> > AI

> >

> > 24:19:07

> >

> > 22

> >

> > 15:02

> >

> > SH

> >

> > 10:21

> >

> > AI

> >

> > 24:21

> >

> >

> > 1/12/2007

> >

> > 22

> >

> > 5:47:59

> >

> > UP

> >

> > 20:17:39

> >

> > SA

> >

> > 28:01:02

> >

> > 22

> >

> > 5:47

> >

> > UP

> >

> > 20:21

> >

> > SA

> >

> > 28:00

> >

> >

> > 1/1/2008

> >

> > 24

> >

> > 28:51:25

> >

> > SW

> >

> > 10:52:04

> >

> > SH

> >

> > 10:35:00

> >

> > 24

> >

> > 28:50

> >

> > SW

> >

> > 10:52

> >

> > SH

> >

> > 10:35

> >

> >

> > 1/2/2008

> >

> > 25

> >

> > 28:41:36

> >

> > MU

> >

> > 30:26:03

> >

> > VA

> >

> > 19:34:32

> >

> > 25

> >

> > 28:38

> >

> > MU

> >

> > 30:22

> >

> > VA

> >

> > 19:31

> >

> >

> > 1/3/2008

> >

> > 24

> >

> > 23:05:37

> >

> > PA

> >

> > 17:26:56

> >

> > PA

> >

> > 27:18:33

> >

> > 24

> >

> > 23:03

> >

> > PA

> >

> > 17:23

> >

> > PA

> >

> > 27:16

> >

> >

> > 1/3/2008

> >

> > 24

> >

> > 23:05:37

> >

> > PA

> >

> > 17:26:56

> >

> > PA

> >

> > 27:18:33

> >

> > 24

> >

> > 23:03

> >

> > PA

> >

> > 17:23

> >

> > PA

> >

> > 27:16

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > 7. Some of the mistakes found in the patrak have been noticed

on

> account of

> > publisher/printing and my own. A correction letter has already

been

> issued

> > on 27th of April 2007. The letter is in Hindi (Krutidev 12 font)

> and is

> > attached herewith for information in support and covers almost

all

> the real

> > mistakes. Even a second correction letter may be issued later.

> >

> >

> >

> > 8. I get you reminded your own and that too very latest

> words, " Please

> > rest assured that I have full faith in you regarding our calendar

> > reform...... " Now, for you I have become a person who does not

know

> even the

> > basics i.e. starting of bright and dark fortnights of a month?

You

> were not

> > like this ever before. Is it forgotten that you have referred

the

> submitted

> > panchang to many other members and uploaded the same to some

other

> groups

> > also? May you be asked, why?

> >

> >

> >

> > 9. " Mohan krity Arsh Tithi patrak samvat 2007 " was my first

> attempt of

> > publishing any book and calculating the panchanga details under

the

> > guidelines from you and other learned of the samiti. I would

like

> you to get

> > again reminded that in your Panchanga of 2001 you have given 31

> days to the

> > month of February. In a very important letter to all of the

members

> of the

> > samiti you have mentioned Hemant sampat as a day of equal day

and

> neight

> > duration. I am not intended to make fun of you nor I was ever

> before. I know

> > that these are just like the slip of pen and have no correlation

> with the

> > knowledge of you, a person of highly profiled and quoted

> credentials.

> >

> >

> >

> > 10. Sir, many a times I have advised you for not making fun of

> others like

> > ALMIGHTY LAHIRI, KALIYUGI VEDIC JYOTISHI, TAPASWANI etc and that

too

> > repeatedly in a monotonous way because it gives reflection of

> ethical dwarf

> > ness and to others it becomes a matter of their wider

recognition.

> You are

> > in fact not a sagacious person that's why in a mannered way I

had

> requested

> > you to think twice before you speak and thrice before you write

any

> thing.

> > The Patrak was got published from Dwarka New Delhi. My main

problem

> remained

> > that I could not pay more than two visits from here i.e. Greater

> Noida. Most

> > of the time I had to explain my things to the publisher only on

> phone.

> > Earlier the names of the Krishan Pakshas were as per the pattern

> adopted by

> > you in your panchangas. Later after vast consideration and on the

> > suggessions of Mr BD Mahtolia Only Amant./ Shukladi system was

> accepted. The

> > publisher could not do that amendments properly and thus left a

> room for

> > almost all the paragraphs of your message I wish if you could

have

> used your

> > common sense and at least contacted me on phone!

> >

> >

> >

> > 11. If you could believe me during last four years by about

> Rs.93000.00, I

> > have expensed from my own for propagating the calendar reform.

No

> member of

> > the samiti has ever contributed even a sum of Rs 100. Not a

single

> copy of

> > the panchanga has been sold so far. Even the distributors at

Delhi,

> > Moradabad, Meerut, Koatdwar and Dehradun have been supplied free

> copies. I

> > should thank GOD that I am well prepared for the five years

ahead

> for

> > continuing the publication of " Shri Mohan Krity Arsh Tithi

Patra. "

> >

> >

> >

> > 12. Accept that of planetary longitudes most of your suggestions

> vide msg

> > NO. 1298 are being observed. As I have already told you that

many

> members

> > and Swami Brahmananda ji are in favor for daily planetary

> longitudes.So for

> > the timings of Moon, you know better of the reasons behind the

> difference.

> > " Seconds " were dropped under your suggestion and we have not

> rounded off the

> > figures but hide them as such.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > 13. Sir, regarding Krishnadi or Amant system of naming lunar

> months already

> > we discussed and finally disagreed. You are in favor of

Krishnadi

> system for

> > north India in fact in astrological areas we are not in favor of

> keeping the

> > differences like north/south India or Hindi/non Hindi belt etc.

> Already we

> > are too much divided and now what is needed is to get ourselves

> united. I'd

> > like you to get reminded that once in a discussion you told

> me " Darshaney ji

> > dono hi sidhant vedic hain aur kam se kam itni baat abhi rehne

dete

> hain

> > anyatha ye loag kahenge ki ye to hamari zad he katne per tule

> hain. " I

> > requested you in reply " Jab hum reformation laa hee rahen hain

to

> ise kiston

> > main na laker poori baat ko ek hee bar utha dena kaee accha

hai. "

> Logically

> > I am strict on counting of Poornimant/Shukladi system because

> Shrishtiyadi

> > is itself shukladi and for that I'll be requesting every Hindu

to

> be logical

> > and Vedic and hence correct.Not for my personal sake but for the

> sake of the

> > project, principles and ultimately for the calendar reform which

> the Hindus

> > need today, my request to you is to please continue co-

operation.

> Off

> > course, this is my last request as this reminds me " Payah paAnam

> > bhujangaAnam..... . "

> >

> >

> >

> > 14. The bone of contention has become the astrology i.e

> predictive mode

> > of astronomy. I want to make it clear that we understand the

sense

> of your

> > sermons against it. I have myself raised a doubt on the function

of

> > astrology as you may see my letter, years before, addressed to

shri

> US Arya

> > of Dehradun. Even yet at this immature stage of today I am

against

> stopping

> > developments, experiences and researches in this field.

> Possibilities of the

> > development should be kept always open. Question does not arise

of

> it's

> > being vedic or non vedic. Therefore, till we all reach to the

> acceptable

> > conclusion we should keep aside the predictive astronomy. Had

this

> not been

> > the issue then certainly sciences like homeopathy, acupressure

and

> reki etc

> > would have never come in the recognition. Obviously, present

> astrology is

> > not a science for its acceptance of so many unscientific bases.

You

> can

> > bring out all such bases instead of discarding astrology itself.

> >

> >

> >

> > 15. For me 'Sayana' is not the zero ayanamsha but sayana is the

> master

> > factor for allocation of earth's situation with relation to the

> sun. So, any

> > astro calculation for earth based purpose should necessarily be

> sayana and

> > not non-sayana. Sayan Mesh sankranti i.e. zero degree of the

zodiac

> is an

> > event which can be measured and visualized even at the moment of

its

> > happening and hence it is more acceptable. Since Uttarayan is a

> declination

> > based conditional phenomena therefore, 270 degrees there from,

it

> is makar

> > sankranti i.e. the start of Uttarayana. As given in our

reference

> Patrak ,

> > Mesh sankranti occurred on 21/03/07 at 05/35/18 Hrs IST and

Makar

> Sankranti

> > will be occurring at 11/37/06 Hrs IST of 22/12/07. These are

> topocentric

> > ingresses timings for Deli Lats/Longs and are also confirmed

from

> Swiss

> > Ephemeris.

> >

> >

> >

> > 16. Sir, acceptance of Rashis is a truth for calculation

purposes

> even if

> > these being imaginary like Longitudes which have no mark

anywhere.

> After all

> > we are identifying certain place in sky or say ZODIAC with the

help

> of these

> > rashis. These are measured from zero point of zodiac and there

is

> no harm in

> > accepting zero degree aries as zero degree ashwini because

> imaginary signs

> > must have their imaginary nakshtras. Days (Sunday,maonday.....),

> Rashis and

> > such nakshtras of astrological zodiac all are quite framed and

> accepted at

> > different stages of kaAlkram (samey chakra). These are not vedic

but

> > definitely traced or fixed or adopted by vedic persons and use

of

> these

> > things have benefited the mankind which is the sole purpose of

any

> > knowledge. Anyhow let's be guided by our own age and

experiences.

> So keep

> > predictive astrology forgotten and do keep continue for calendar

> reform if

> > at all you really desire so.

> >

> >

> >

> > 17. Sir, calling the Akhil Bhartiya Panchanga Sudhar Samiti a

> DEFUNCT is

> > really laughable. It was functional because you were president

and

> now it is

> > defunct because you are not at that! Is it so? Better we free

> ourselves from

> > such proud and come out to stand on realities.

> >

> >

> >

> > 18. And at last - if I Informed the members that samvat 2065

> starts from

> > Saturday 08th March 2008, in which sense it was unpleasant to

you.

> Is it

> > wrong?

> >

> >

> >

> > Aum Sham.

> >

> > With regards

> >

> >

> >

> > Darshaney Lokesh

> >

> > Genl.Secretary

> >

> > A.B.Panchanga Sudhar samiti

> >

> > Greater Noida(UP) -201308

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > .

> >

> >

> > <http://geo./serv?

> s=97359714/grpId=13815029/grpspId=1705075991/msgI

> > d=2067/stime=1181958957/nc1=3848544/nc2=4507179/nc3=3848568>

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Koul ji,

==>

> Even the " greatest Vedic astrologer "

> of the last century has not been able to quote even a single Vedic

> mantra that could enumerate Mesha etc. Rashis,or Mangal, Shani etc.

> planets in the Vedas...

<==

The attribute 'greatest Vedic astrologer' to anybody is irrelevant.

But for sure the Mars and Saturn are mentioned by Vedaic literature

(refer the pdf I supplied) and Signs such as Aries in Yanjacha Valkya

Smriti. Further as told earlier, Vedas are wrong place to look for

such info.

Love,

Sreenadh

 

, " Avtar Krishen Kaul "

<jyotirved wrote:

>

> Shri Sreenadhji,

> Namaskar!

>

> <I am referring to Chandra Hai and his book 'Hindu Zodiac' in which

> your efforts are also amply referenced.>

>

> I know Shri Chandra Hari peronally. He was kind enough to come to

> my house at Rohini and give me a copy of his Hindu Zodiac with his

> compliments. I have gone through that book and noted his comments

> about my stand regarding zero ayanamsha etc!

>

> You must have noted through my various posts that I keep on

exposing

> my own erlier half-baked theories with later discoveries! The

> imputs for all those changes are from different quarters. Since as

> on date, I find that there are no Mesha etc. Rashis in the Vedas or

> Brahamanas or Upanashidas or the Vedangas, it is futile to quibble

> as to which ayanamsha, including zero ayanamsha, is correct and why

> as far as Vedic astrology goes!

>

> Your next point is:

> < Please note that the view of the " Calendar Reform Committee "

> headed

> > by Saha could have been primarily got corrupted because-

> > 1) He never hand any direct understanding of the theoretical

> > foundations of the Indian astronomical system or the real purpose

> of

> > big numbers such as the Yuga numbers. Even after the

> recommendations,

> > he was unaware of the real theoretical foundations of the Indian

> > system, or how the system evolved in India.>

>

> I have made it very clear in my mails that I did not take the

> statements of Dr. Saha or S. B. Dikshit or any other scholar, for

> that matter, at the face value but delved deeper and deeper into

the

> Vedas and other shastras myself, if only to prove all those

scholars

> wrong! Similarly, I have gone through all the prominent sidhantas

> viz. the Panchasidhantika, the Surya Sidhanta, the 'Aryabhati, the

> vateshwara Sidhanta, the Lall Tantra etc. etc. besides the last

> Indian sidhanta viz. Sidhanta Shiromani of Bhaskaracharya. I have

> even studied the Grahalaghava! However, I was caught on the wrong

> foot and to my dismay found that there were really no Rashis in any

> of the Vedas or the Vedangas or even the indigenous sidhantas like

> Pitamaha Sidhanta etc. As such, unless I am able to vindicate my

> stand to the contrary i.e. unless I am able to prove that there

are

> Mesha etc. Rashis in the Vedas or the Upanishadas or the Vedanga

> Jyotisha etc. etc. I cannot fault such scholars like S B Dikshit

or

> Dr. Gorakh Prasad etc. etc. or even Prof. Daftary, for that matter!

> There are quite a few Sanskrit scholars from south India also who

> are of the same view i.e. there are no rashis in the Vedas and

> astrology is a bane for India that came from outside!

>

> The term " Vedic astrology " was coined by a videshi Vamadeva and it

> was lapped by Indian jyotishis so that they could market their

> phalit jyotisha in overseas countires as anything in the name of

> Vedic has a better chance of selling there than just " Hindu " . As

> such, Hindu astrology was re-christened as Vedic astrology in the

> seventies of the last century. Even the " greatest Vedic

astrologer "

> of the last century has not been able to quote even a single Vedic

> mantra that could enumerate Mesha etc. Rashis,or Mangal, Shani etc.

> planets in the Vedas, though he went or " parroting " the word " Vedic

> astrology " , " Vedic astrology " . Naturally, if someone claims to be

> an authority on a subject and then fails to quote even a single

> pramana for the same, his credentials do become suspect!

>

> As far as I am concerned, it is immaterial as to whether it is

known

> as Vedic astrology or Pauranic astrology or astrology by

> charlatans -- the problem arises that I get into a headlong

> conflict with all the jyotishis -- whether sayana or nirayana --

> when it comes to streamlining the Hindu calendar! The ironical

part

> is that we do not need any Mesha etc. Rashis -- whether sayana or

> nirayana -- for our real Vedic calendars -- as is evident from

the

> Vedanga Jyotisha, the Yajur Jyotisha, the Atharva Jyotisha and the

> Pitamaha Sidhanta etc. etc. But since the business of calendar

> making has been monoplozied by " Vedic jyotishis " and " Vedic

> panchanga-makers " we as Hindus are left high and dry and made to

> celebrate all our festivals on wrong days and marriages during the

> actual shradhapaksha and shradhapaksha during a period that may

> actually be auspicious for marriages! In fact, we are forced to

> celebrate Pitramavasya on the day of actual Dipavali, thanks to

> these " Vedic Jyotishis " . I cannot let such a situation continue,

> even if I have to wage a " thosand year war " for the same and that

> also sinngle handed!

> Regards,

> AKK

> PS I am posting a separate letter as to why we do not need any

Mesha

> etc. Rashis for steamlining our calendars.

> AKK

>

>

> , " Sreenadh "

> <sreesog@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Kaul ji,

> > I can imagine how the things went.

> >

> > The following note attracted my special attention.

> > ==>

> > > However, after going through the Report of the Calendar Reform

> > > Committee of Dr. M. N. Saha; and Bharatiya Jyotisha Shastra of

S

> B

> > > Dikshit and the works of several other Indian scholars, who had

> no

> > > axe to grind, I was surprised to find that all of them claimed

> that

> > > there were no Rashis in the Vedas, Upanishadas, Brahmans etc.

> etc.

> > > but they were just imports from Babylon via Greeks! Instead of

> > > just taking those statements at their face value, I studied all

> the

> > > Vedas and other shastras personally and was surprised to

> > > find that there were actually no rashis in those shastras!

> > <==

> > Dear Kaul ji, please note that there is some body in the same

> plane

> > but who took a different rute. Some body who had dedicated almost

> > half of a dictionary like big book to discuss

the " Recommendations

> > and Observations " of Calendar Reform Committee alone. I am

> referring

> > to Chandra Hai and his book 'Hindu Zodiac' in which your efforts

> are

> > also amply referenced. I will try to get a copy of the book and

> > provide it to you. May be at least the observation about 'Surya

> > Sidhanta' may change.

> > Please note that the view of the " Calendar Reform Committee "

> headed

> > by Saha could have been primarily got corrupted because-

> > 1) He never hand any direct understanding of the theoretical

> > foundations of the Indian astronomical system or the real purpose

> of

> > big numbers such as the Yuga numbers. Even after the

> recommendations,

> > he was unaware of the real theoretical foundations of the Indian

> > system, or how the system evolved in India.

> > 2)Lahari was a member of the " Calendar Reform Committee " and was

> > already publishing an " Ephemeris " and (there is all the

> possibility

> > that) the natural corruption ended up supporting the same for the

> > whole of India!

> > 3) Note that Saha failed to provide enough or proper supporting

> > evidence for the use of Chitra as a star at 180 degree of the

> zodiac,

> > and also that he himself was aware of this fact.

> >

> > So, before believing on the " findings " of the " Calendar Reform

> > Committee " headed by Saha, I think a scholarly study (please not

> > just 'reading') of the of the system, logic and theoretical

> > foundation used by the ancient astrological texts is a must;

Which

> to

> > an extend is provided by Chandra Hari's work 'Hindu Zodiac'.

> > Two of you get irritated and become angry so easly - but I think

> > that is the common nature of the some peculiar type of geniuses.

> If

> > two of you co-operate, or at least study each others works, the

> > opinions may change. As you may know Chandra Hari is an ONGC

> Engineer

> > and not an (professional or even armature) astrologer who depends

> on

> > astrology for a living or have any vested interest on the same.

> His

> > interest in astronomy/astrology is also purely intellectual. He

is

> > very good in astronomical mathematics and most of his

> contributions

> > are in that direction. He has published several other books -

> > commentaries of Hari Nama Kertana etc - which is not relevant

> here.

> > He too with the help of one of my Kerala friend " Srinivasan " who

> is

> > well versed in ancient style of astronomical mathematics [even

> done

> > instantaneously from memory using shells alone - they don't even

> need

> > an ephemeris to calculate the planetary position! All the steps

> for

> > calculation as per " Drikganita " style is by heart to them]

started

> > publishing a new Panchaga (Ephemeris) as per True Ayanamsa (based

> on

> > Surya sidhanta and proposed by Chandrahari). I should add that

the

> > sale -- similar to almost all of his books :=) --- failed

> miserably

> > but still due to dedication to the subject I think he is going to

> > invest his hard earned salary on such publishing efforts in

future

> as

> > well. :=)

> >

> > * So being the people in similar boat -- going in different

> > directions -- even though the aim is the same (i.e. Calendar

> Reform);

> > you too may have much to share.

> >

> > * But in all my conversations I will pray both of you to be

> polite,

> > but still even though with all my positive spirit I may hope the

> same

> > to happen, after seeing the attitudes of both of you, I can only

> pray

> > to god! Oh! God! Let them make children and to fight and forget

it

> in

> > the next moment and then too be good friends. :=)

> >

> > * At the end the point is - the book " Hindu Zodic " discusses the

> > recommendations as well as the pit falls committed by " Calendar

> > Reform Committee " headed by Saha and there for could be of

> interest

> > to you.

> >

> > Note: By the way, Chandrahari is almost equally psychic like you,

> > otherwise who will publish an encyclopedia like book to deal with

> a

> > singe subject, Hindu Zodiac, pubish it by spending money from own

> > pocket and try to sell it for Rs.600 per book!! I don't think not

> > even 25% of that book got sold, or even if it did, he might not

> have

> > got even 10% of the money back. :=) Even I was asking for a free

> > copy, and read it free from taking if from 'Srinivasan', and yet

> to

> > buy it. Or possibly never by it since 'Chandra Hari' had already

> > promised me a free copy. I couldn't grasp almost half of the

> book,

> > because I am an still an elementary student on ancient Indian

> > astronomy. :=) If that is my condition, I wonder what would be

the

> > condition of other common people who are reading that book!

> > By now fore sure you might have guessed that the money of

> Chandra

> > Hari spend of publishing " Hindu Zodiac " is gone(!) even though he

> may

> > retort that he don't mind! He is also after Tantra, possibly like

> you

> > (I don't know much about your Upasana methods) - and may

> retort, " It

> > is for Davi " .

> > * In the files section of this group inside the folder

> > named " ChandraHari " you will find a

> > document " Basics_of_the_Ayanamsa_Dispute.doc " which is nothing

but

> > some of the initial chapters of Hari's book " Hindu Zodiac " . Those

> > detailed discussion about the recommendations of " Calendar reform

> > committee " you will find in that document.

> > * What ever I could make out (with my feeble brain) about the

> > mathematical conclusions and directions he provide in his book is

> > present in the article " Hindu Zodiac.pdf " present inside the

files

> > section of the forum inside the " Sreenadh " folder.

> > Hope this helps.

> > Love,

> > Sreenadh

> >

> > , " jyotirved "

> > <jyotirved@> wrote:

> > >

> > > HinduCalendar

> > [HinduCalendar ]

> > > On Behalf Of jyotirved

> > >

> > > Shri Darshaney Lokeshji,

> > >

> > > Namaskar!

> > >

> > > Please go through my posts again. You have given transit

> timings as

> > > topocentric for Delhi in your " Tithi Patrak " . Even the

examples

> > you have

> > > quoted are wrong. You have said

> > >

> > > <I have checked some timing as per the Swiss Ephemeris. For

> example

> > today

> > > 11/06/2007 moon transit is correct. 21 June, sun's transit' 05

> June

> > Venus

> > > transit, 25 June mars transit 19 December Jupiter transit,

> > >

> > > However, as per the same Swiss Ephemeris that you are quoting,

> > Moon at 12

> > > hrs 32mts 42 secds (UT) for Delhi is Moon 0 ta 44'

53.6350.

> > Obviously,

> > > it has already covered about 45 arcminutes in Taurus at 18-12-

42

> > (IST) when

> > > you say it entered into Taurus! That means it was roughly about

> two

> > hours

> > > back that it had entered Taurus!

> > >

> > > Similarly sun for June 21 at 18-7-9 UT is Sun 0 cn 0'

1.7032.

> It

> > means it

> > > is already over by about two arcseconds! (It takes sun about

24

> > seconds of

> > > time to cover one arcsecond. Thus it should have been 23hrs 36

> mts

> > IST for

> > > topocentric ingress for Delhi. Why did you give ingress

timings

> > even in

> > > seconds? Just to confuse a reader about the accuracy of your

> > panchanga,

> > > when you cannot give even the minute of solar ingress

correctly?)

> > >

> > > Similarly Venus is supposed to have entered Simha at 23-29-11

> (IST)

> > when as

> > > per the same Swiss Ephemeris it is Venus 29 cn

> 59 '59.9288

> > which

> > > means it is still in Cancer at that point of time!

> > >

> > > According to you Mars entered Taurus on June 25 at 3-54-32 IST

> > which means

> > > 22-24-32 of June 24, UT. Mars at that point of time was Mars 0

ta

> > > 1'44.8001. Thus it would have taken it more than about three

> hours

> > to enter

> > > into that sign! And you are supposed to have given even the

> ingress

> > second

> > > correctly!

> > >

> > > Similarly, you say Jupiter will enter Makar on December 19 at 1-

> 41-

> > 29 IST

> > > where Jupiter longitude at that time is Jupiter 29 sa

> > 59'59.9608. In

> > > other words, it is still in Dhanus at that second of IST/UT

> > >

> > > That much for your accuracy!

> > >

> > > Your another point is

> > >

> > > <. I get you reminded your own and that too very latest

> > words, " Please

> > > rest assured that I have full faith in you regarding our

calendar

> > > reform...... " Now, for you I have become a person who does not

> know

> > even the

> > > basics i.e. starting of bright and dark fortnights of a month?

> You

> > were not

> > > like this ever before. Is it forgotten that you have referred

> the

> > submitted

> > > panchang to many other members and uploaded the same to some

> other

> > groups

> > > also? May you be asked, why?>

> > >

> > > My dear Shri Lokesh ji, I am sure you know that our association

> has

> > been a

> > > professional one. You also know that I was a staunch believer

> in

> > nirayana

> > > panchangas and nirayana astrology for quite sometime, like you

> and

> > everybody

> > > else. With the passage of time, I came to the conclusion that

> the

> > so called

> > > nirayana Rashischakra - actually nirayana rashichakras galore -

> > were not at

> > > all feasible for our calendars. This I clarified through my

> various

> > > panchangas right from 1996 onwards till 2001. Even several

years

> > after that,

> > > I laboured under the delusion that the Vedas were talking of a

> so

> > called

> > > Sayana Rashichakra! You and Shri Mahtolia and many others felt

> the

> > same

> > > thing. All of us had another common purpose also then -- to

> > propagate the

> > > " real Vedic Jyotish " since all of us, including myself, were

> under

> > the

> > > confusion that the Vedas are talking of nothing but Sayana

> Jyotisha

> > > including Phalita Jyotisha! We joined our hands and heads

> together

> > and

> > > formed an " All India Calendar Reform Committee " at a much later

> > stage of

> > > which I was asked to be the President.

> > >

> > > However, after going through the Report of the Calendar Reform

> > Committee of

> > > Dr. M. N. Saha; and Bharatiya Jyotisha Shastra of S B Dikshit

> and

> > the works

> > > of several other Indian scholars, who had no axe to grind, I

was

> > surprised

> > > to find that all of them claimed that there were no Rashis in

> the

> > Vedas,

> > > Upanishadas, Brahmans etc. etc. but they were just imports from

> > Babylon via

> > > Greeks! Instead of just taking those statements at their face

> > value, I

> > > studied all the Vedas and other shastras personally and was

> > surprised to

> > > find that there were actually no rashis in those shastras!

This

> I

> > brought

> > > to your and Shri Mahtolia's notice during our first meeting at

> my

> > house at

> > > Rohini. I had also made it very clear then that though it was a

> > > contradiction of my own stand of a few years' back, but I could

> not

> > help it

> > > since I could not go on advocating something for which there

> were

> > no proofs.

> > > At least my conscience would not allow it.

> > >

> > > In the meantime, you collected " applications " from about 20

> people

> > who

> > > wanted to join the Akhil Bharatiya Panchanga Sudhara Samiti.

> When

> > I went

> > > through those " application forms " , I was surprised to see that

> all

> > of them

> > > were actually phalit jyotishis and they were under the

> impression

> > that they

> > > would be able to earn more money by practising sayana phalit

> > jyotish in the

> > > name of Vedic jyotish, reforming the calendar being a time

> pass!

> > All of

> > > them seemed to be under the delusion that the Vedas were full

of

> > Sayana

> > > Rashis and Sayana Phalit jyotish!

> > >

> > > I just did not want any such confusions that would defeat the

> very

> > purpose

> > > of the Samiti that instead of reforming the calendar we would

> just

> > deform it

> > > further by trying to link sayana rashis with the Vedic calendar

> > etc. As

> > > such, I sent a seven page letter in Hindi to all of them,

> > explaining to them

> > > in detail as to how we had been taken for a ride by the Greeks

> by

> > spreading

> > > their tentacles of astrology through Mesha etc. astrological

> Rashis

> > in

> > > India, which was later re-christened as " Vedic jyotish " by

> overseas

> > > " Vamadevas " . This letter is in the files section as " PSS.doc "

> even

> > today.

> > >

> > > You were much against my sending any such letter to anybody

> since,

> > as a hind

> > > sight, I feel that you knew that all those members wanted to

> > associate with

> > > the " Samiti " only to hone their astrological skills and

increase

> > their money

> > > earning power by dint of " sayana Vedic jyotish " ! Not

> surprisingly,

> > I did

> > > not get any response from anybody, including you and Shri Dalip

> > Langoo or

> > > Shri Sanjay Kumar Mehta etc. etc. The only response I got was

> from

> > Shri

> > > Mahtolia and he had summed up his stand in the words that I was

> > acting more

> > > like Macaulay since I was denying Rashis and phalit jyotish in

> the

> > Vedas!

> > >

> > > That much for worthy Vic-Presidents and General Secretaries and

> > Treasurers

> > > and secretaries of the " Samiti " .

> > >

> > > Since nobody responded, it means technically the ABPSS

comprised

> > just a

> > > President, a Vice-Presidnet, a General Secretary and Secretary,

> > though

> > > neither the GS nor the Secretary nor the Treasurer responded to

> the

> > letter!

> > > If the would be members could not muster courage to come clean

> of

> > their

> > > views in their own forums, how do you expect them to be ale to

> > convince

> > > others about the aims and goals of the Samiti?

> > >

> > > Then there was another bolt from the blue! Even if somehow or

> the

> > other, by

> > > hook or by crook, you just thrust the sayana Rashichakra down

> the

> > throat of

> > > unsuspecting public, you just could not link the real

nakshatras

> > with those

> > > (Sayana) Rashis at any cost!

> > >

> > > I have explained all these points at least a hundred times

> through

> > various

> > > posts and mails on this forum. I had explained the same thing

> to

> > you during

> > > our last meeting at my house in Rohini.

> > >

> > > It appears to me you are deliberately evading the issue since

it

> is

> > > impossible that you have not grasped the hopelessness of your

> stand

> > of

> > > including sayana Rashis and Sayana nakshatras in your panchanga

> for

> > muhurta

> > > and festivals etc. etc. Since you have decided to include

sayana

> > planetary

> > > longitudes also in your panchanga next year, and since you are

> > presenting

> > > yourself as " General Secretary of Panchanga Sudhar Samiti " I

> just

> > do not

> > > want to associate myself in such an adharmic activity in any

way

> > whatsoever.

> > > This I had explained to you in no uncertain terms before

> > withdrawing my

> > > association.

> > >

> > > We must not forget that the late N C Lahiri was also the

> Secretary

> > of the

> > > Saha Calendar Reform Committee. As is well known already,

> instead

> > of going

> > > by the real Vedic dictum, he just tried to sway every other

> member

> > in the

> > > favour of a so called Lahiri Rashichakra and he succeeded in

> it.

> > In other

> > > words, he succeeded in sabotaging the real calendar reform and

> > keeping his

> > > " Lahiri's Indian Ephemeris " and " Vishudha Sidhanta Panjika " a

> > perpetual

> > > breadwinner for himself and his offspring at the cost of Vedic

> > dharma. It

> > > appears that you as a general Secretary of a so called " Akhila

> > Bharatiya

> > > Panchanga Sudhara Samiti " are working on the same lines -- you

> are

> > more

> > > worried about the sales of your own Tithi Patrak than the

actual

> > reform of

> > > Hindu calendar and muhurtas.

> > >

> > > All the remaining points raised by you are quite irrelevant

> about

> > reforming

> > > the calendar, since like Lahiri and Lahiriwalas, you are

> yourself

> > bent on

> > > " committing the entire Hindu society to adharma " on the

> shoulders

> > of " Akhila

> > > Bharatiya Panchanga Sudhar Samiti " Honestly, I have no good

> wishes

> > for you

> > > or your such a mission. On the other hand I will oppose any

such

> > ahdarmic

> > > reforms with equal vehemence as I have been doing for Lahiri

> > Rashichakra and

> > > Lahiri festivals. And

> > >

> > > yatodharmas tato jayah!

> > >

> > > Dhnayavd.

> > >

> > > Avtar Krishen Kaul

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > _____

> > >

> > > HinduCalendar

> > [HinduCalendar ]

> > > On Behalf Of darshaney lokesh

> > > Saturday, June 16, 2007 7:25 AM

> > > Avtar Krishen Kaul; Hindu Calander

> > > [HinduCalendar] Mohan Krity Arsh Tithi Patrak : Please

> > come to real

> > > issue

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Dear friends.

> > >

> > > This is resending of the message already

> > mailed.

> > > Please treat

> > >

> > > that one as cancelled due to wrong numbering of paras.Thanks.

> > >

> > >

> > > Darshaney Lokesh

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Respected kaul Ji,

> > >

> > > Namastey.

> > >

> > > Your reference message dt 17 May 07 has given me a sad

> > picture of

> > > your acting as an erudite person of the subject. The letter is

> > neither

> > > ethically nor purposely right. But before entering into the

> reply

> > with due

> > > respect and my humble submissions I'd like to request you ( as

> well

> > as to

> > > every member of HinduCalendar group) -

> > >

> > > 1. Plz. Go through the msg No. 1298 and a reply

> msg

> > dt 19 Sep

> > > 2007 of Er. Vibhu Vishwamitra Rawat.

> > >

> > > 2. Plz see msg No. 1315 dt 27/09/2006 wherein you

> have

> > > confirmed the recipt of printed panchanga by post. And for your

> > information

> > > the patrak was published in the month of April 2007 and if at

> all

> > there is

> > > such serious negligence on your side then you also can well

> imagine

> > that how

> > > much dangerous was it to trust on your president ship.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > 3. Sir, we had submitted the panchanga through internet and

> > printed copies

> > > by post to YOU and many of others like Patron, vice president

and

> > > secretaries of the akhil bhartiya panchanga sudhar samiti, who

> are

> > equally

> > > learned of the subject.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > 4. Your congratulation letter, infact misguided us as we

> presumed

> > that you

> > > have thoroughly gone through the Panchanga as the president of

> the

> > samiti.

> > > Naturally you were needed to do so. Moreover when I personally

> > visited you

> > > at rohini you told me " Apki bhabhi ji ko to panchanga bahut

> pasand

> > aaya

> > > hai....... "

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > 5. The panchanga was submitted to you in the month of

> September

> > andnow

> > > only on account of my mentions in reply to sh Narayan Prasad

you

> > have not

> > > only resigned from the president ship of the samiti but also

> > dishonored me

> > > on the basis of printing mistakes/ deference of a few minutes

> for

> > which

> > > reasons were already explained and on that explanations you had

> not

> > reacted

> > > any way.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > 6. I have checked some timing as per the Swiss Ephemeris. For

> > example today

> > > 11/06/2007 moon transit is correct. 21 June, sun's transit' 05

> June

> > Venus

> > > transit, 25 June mars transit 19 December Jupiter transit, 15

> > December true

> > > Rahu transit are correct. For 15 June 2007 the tithi, nakshtra

> and

> > yoga

> > > timings are correct as per even Swiss Ephemeris except in case

> of

> > the Oct

> > > 2007 as this page has been published uncorrected. I have taken

a

> > responsible

> > > note of these things. A comparison chart is also being produced

> > hereunder. I

> > > would request my readers to expect a well progressed, error

free

> > (as to the

> > > maximum capabilities of my own) and fully acceptable Patra next

> > year. In

> > > This Patra of the next year we are prepared to give the timings

> of

> > > Kshyatithi, nakshtras, lagnasarni for Delhi, daily planatery

> > > longitudes/latitudes/speed, ecliptical obliquity and nutation

> for

> > each day

> > > at the time of sunrise. These are the needs of a Patra and not

> of a

> > > Jantri.Giving planetary longitudes has an approval of Swami

> > Brahmanand ji

> > > Saraswati who is himself a Arya Samaji saint and has no faith

in

> > predictive

> > > astrology.He says, " Loag to bhagyavadi hain hee aur agar apne

> > grahspasht

> > > nahin diye to unki newantam jaruraton ke liye bhi apka patra

> > bekarka hoga.

> > > Isliye grahspasht dene men koee burai nahin hai. "

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Comparison Chart

> > >

> > >

> > > Date

> > >

> > > As Per Mahesh

> > >

> > > As Per Mohan Krity Arsh Tithi Patrak - 2007

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Th

> > >

> > > Time

> > >

> > > Nak

> > >

> > > Time

> > >

> > > Yoga

> > >

> > > Time

> > >

> > > Th

> > >

> > > Time

> > >

> > > Nak

> > >

> > > Time

> > >

> > > Yoga

> > >

> > > Time

> > >

> > >

> > > 1/3/2007

> > >

> > > 13

> > >

> > > 25:19:56

> > >

> > > MA

> > >

> > > 18:32:08

> > >

> > > DH

> > >

> > > 5:40:24

> > >

> > > 13

> > >

> > > 25:20

> > >

> > > MA

> > >

> > > 18:34

> > >

> > > DH

> > >

> > > 5:39

> > >

> > >

> > > 1/4/2007

> > >

> > > 14

> > >

> > > 20:12:21

> > >

> > > HA

> > >

> > > 7:44:51

> > >

> > > HA

> > >

> > > 12:08:05

> > >

> > > 14

> > >

> > > 20:12

> > >

> > > HA

> > >

> > > 7:44

> > >

> > > HA

> > >

> > > 12:07

> > >

> > >

> > > 1/5/2007

> > >

> > > 14

> > >

> > > 13:18:55

> > >

> > > VI

> > >

> > > 22:56:10

> > >

> > > PA

> > >

> > > 21:08:10

> > >

> > > 14

> > >

> > > 13:17

> > >

> > > VI

> > >

> > > 22:55

> > >

> > > PA

> > >

> > > 21:07

> > >

> > >

> > > 1/6/2007

> > >

> > > 15

> > >

> > > 6:34:34

> > >

> > > MU

> > >

> > > 12:40:09

> > >

> > > SH

> > >

> > > 5:52:15

> > >

> > > 15

> > >

> > > 6:33

> > >

> > > MU

> > >

> > > 12:37

> > >

> > > SH

> > >

> > > 5:50

> > >

> > >

> > > 1/7/2007

> > >

> > > 16

> > >

> > > 19:11:41

> > >

> > > SH

> > >

> > > 22:48:14

> > >

> > > PR

> > >

> > > 12:16:47

> > >

> > > 16

> > >

> > > 19:07

> > >

> > > SH

> > >

> > > 22:44

> > >

> > > PR

> > >

> > > 12:13

> > >

> > >

> > > 1/8/2007

> > >

> > > 18

> > >

> > > 25:07:47

> > >

> > > PB

> > >

> > > 4:55:16

> > >

> > > DH

> > >

> > > 12:51:59

> > >

> > > 18

> > >

> > > 25:05

> > >

> > > PB

> > >

> > > 27:37

> > >

> > > DH

> > >

> > > 12:48

> > >

> > >

> > > 1/9/2007

> > >

> > > 20

> > >

> > > 25:54:17

> > >

> > > BH

> > >

> > > 5:37:55

> > >

> > > HA

> > >

> > > 8:24:24

> > >

> > > 20

> > >

> > > 25:59

> > >

> > > BH

> > >

> > > 5:36

> > >

> > > HA

> > >

> > > 8:23

> > >

> > >

> > > 1/11/2007

> > >

> > > 22

> > >

> > > 14:51:24

> > >

> > > SH

> > >

> > > 10:19:03

> > >

> > > AI

> > >

> > > 24:19:07

> > >

> > > 22

> > >

> > > 15:02

> > >

> > > SH

> > >

> > > 10:21

> > >

> > > AI

> > >

> > > 24:21

> > >

> > >

> > > 1/12/2007

> > >

> > > 22

> > >

> > > 5:47:59

> > >

> > > UP

> > >

> > > 20:17:39

> > >

> > > SA

> > >

> > > 28:01:02

> > >

> > > 22

> > >

> > > 5:47

> > >

> > > UP

> > >

> > > 20:21

> > >

> > > SA

> > >

> > > 28:00

> > >

> > >

> > > 1/1/2008

> > >

> > > 24

> > >

> > > 28:51:25

> > >

> > > SW

> > >

> > > 10:52:04

> > >

> > > SH

> > >

> > > 10:35:00

> > >

> > > 24

> > >

> > > 28:50

> > >

> > > SW

> > >

> > > 10:52

> > >

> > > SH

> > >

> > > 10:35

> > >

> > >

> > > 1/2/2008

> > >

> > > 25

> > >

> > > 28:41:36

> > >

> > > MU

> > >

> > > 30:26:03

> > >

> > > VA

> > >

> > > 19:34:32

> > >

> > > 25

> > >

> > > 28:38

> > >

> > > MU

> > >

> > > 30:22

> > >

> > > VA

> > >

> > > 19:31

> > >

> > >

> > > 1/3/2008

> > >

> > > 24

> > >

> > > 23:05:37

> > >

> > > PA

> > >

> > > 17:26:56

> > >

> > > PA

> > >

> > > 27:18:33

> > >

> > > 24

> > >

> > > 23:03

> > >

> > > PA

> > >

> > > 17:23

> > >

> > > PA

> > >

> > > 27:16

> > >

> > >

> > > 1/3/2008

> > >

> > > 24

> > >

> > > 23:05:37

> > >

> > > PA

> > >

> > > 17:26:56

> > >

> > > PA

> > >

> > > 27:18:33

> > >

> > > 24

> > >

> > > 23:03

> > >

> > > PA

> > >

> > > 17:23

> > >

> > > PA

> > >

> > > 27:16

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > 7. Some of the mistakes found in the patrak have been noticed

> on

> > account of

> > > publisher/printing and my own. A correction letter has already

> been

> > issued

> > > on 27th of April 2007. The letter is in Hindi (Krutidev 12

font)

> > and is

> > > attached herewith for information in support and covers almost

> all

> > the real

> > > mistakes. Even a second correction letter may be issued later.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > 8. I get you reminded your own and that too very latest

> > words, " Please

> > > rest assured that I have full faith in you regarding our

calendar

> > > reform...... " Now, for you I have become a person who does not

> know

> > even the

> > > basics i.e. starting of bright and dark fortnights of a month?

> You

> > were not

> > > like this ever before. Is it forgotten that you have referred

> the

> > submitted

> > > panchang to many other members and uploaded the same to some

> other

> > groups

> > > also? May you be asked, why?

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > 9. " Mohan krity Arsh Tithi patrak samvat 2007 " was my first

> > attempt of

> > > publishing any book and calculating the panchanga details under

> the

> > > guidelines from you and other learned of the samiti. I would

> like

> > you to get

> > > again reminded that in your Panchanga of 2001 you have given 31

> > days to the

> > > month of February. In a very important letter to all of the

> members

> > of the

> > > samiti you have mentioned Hemant sampat as a day of equal day

> and

> > neight

> > > duration. I am not intended to make fun of you nor I was ever

> > before. I know

> > > that these are just like the slip of pen and have no

correlation

> > with the

> > > knowledge of you, a person of highly profiled and quoted

> > credentials.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > 10. Sir, many a times I have advised you for not making fun

of

> > others like

> > > ALMIGHTY LAHIRI, KALIYUGI VEDIC JYOTISHI, TAPASWANI etc and

that

> too

> > > repeatedly in a monotonous way because it gives reflection of

> > ethical dwarf

> > > ness and to others it becomes a matter of their wider

> recognition.

> > You are

> > > in fact not a sagacious person that's why in a mannered way I

> had

> > requested

> > > you to think twice before you speak and thrice before you write

> any

> > thing.

> > > The Patrak was got published from Dwarka New Delhi. My main

> problem

> > remained

> > > that I could not pay more than two visits from here i.e.

Greater

> > Noida. Most

> > > of the time I had to explain my things to the publisher only on

> > phone.

> > > Earlier the names of the Krishan Pakshas were as per the

pattern

> > adopted by

> > > you in your panchangas. Later after vast consideration and on

the

> > > suggessions of Mr BD Mahtolia Only Amant./ Shukladi system was

> > accepted. The

> > > publisher could not do that amendments properly and thus left a

> > room for

> > > almost all the paragraphs of your message I wish if you could

> have

> > used your

> > > common sense and at least contacted me on phone!

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > 11. If you could believe me during last four years by about

> > Rs.93000.00, I

> > > have expensed from my own for propagating the calendar reform.

> No

> > member of

> > > the samiti has ever contributed even a sum of Rs 100. Not a

> single

> > copy of

> > > the panchanga has been sold so far. Even the distributors at

> Delhi,

> > > Moradabad, Meerut, Koatdwar and Dehradun have been supplied

free

> > copies. I

> > > should thank GOD that I am well prepared for the five years

> ahead

> > for

> > > continuing the publication of " Shri Mohan Krity Arsh Tithi

> Patra. "

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > 12. Accept that of planetary longitudes most of your

suggestions

> > vide msg

> > > NO. 1298 are being observed. As I have already told you that

> many

> > members

> > > and Swami Brahmananda ji are in favor for daily planetary

> > longitudes.So for

> > > the timings of Moon, you know better of the reasons behind the

> > difference.

> > > " Seconds " were dropped under your suggestion and we have not

> > rounded off the

> > > figures but hide them as such.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > 13. Sir, regarding Krishnadi or Amant system of naming lunar

> > months already

> > > we discussed and finally disagreed. You are in favor of

> Krishnadi

> > system for

> > > north India in fact in astrological areas we are not in favor

of

> > keeping the

> > > differences like north/south India or Hindi/non Hindi belt etc.

> > Already we

> > > are too much divided and now what is needed is to get ourselves

> > united. I'd

> > > like you to get reminded that once in a discussion you told

> > me " Darshaney ji

> > > dono hi sidhant vedic hain aur kam se kam itni baat abhi rehne

> dete

> > hain

> > > anyatha ye loag kahenge ki ye to hamari zad he katne per tule

> > hain. " I

> > > requested you in reply " Jab hum reformation laa hee rahen hain

> to

> > ise kiston

> > > main na laker poori baat ko ek hee bar utha dena kaee accha

> hai. "

> > Logically

> > > I am strict on counting of Poornimant/Shukladi system because

> > Shrishtiyadi

> > > is itself shukladi and for that I'll be requesting every Hindu

> to

> > be logical

> > > and Vedic and hence correct.Not for my personal sake but for

the

> > sake of the

> > > project, principles and ultimately for the calendar reform

which

> > the Hindus

> > > need today, my request to you is to please continue co-

> operation.

> > Off

> > > course, this is my last request as this reminds me " Payah paAnam

> > > bhujangaAnam..... . "

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > 14. The bone of contention has become the astrology i.e

> > predictive mode

> > > of astronomy. I want to make it clear that we understand the

> sense

> > of your

> > > sermons against it. I have myself raised a doubt on the

function

> of

> > > astrology as you may see my letter, years before, addressed to

> shri

> > US Arya

> > > of Dehradun. Even yet at this immature stage of today I am

> against

> > stopping

> > > developments, experiences and researches in this field.

> > Possibilities of the

> > > development should be kept always open. Question does not arise

> of

> > it's

> > > being vedic or non vedic. Therefore, till we all reach to the

> > acceptable

> > > conclusion we should keep aside the predictive astronomy. Had

> this

> > not been

> > > the issue then certainly sciences like homeopathy, acupressure

> and

> > reki etc

> > > would have never come in the recognition. Obviously, present

> > astrology is

> > > not a science for its acceptance of so many unscientific bases.

> You

> > can

> > > bring out all such bases instead of discarding astrology itself.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > 15. For me 'Sayana' is not the zero ayanamsha but sayana is

the

> > master

> > > factor for allocation of earth's situation with relation to the

> > sun. So, any

> > > astro calculation for earth based purpose should necessarily be

> > sayana and

> > > not non-sayana. Sayan Mesh sankranti i.e. zero degree of the

> zodiac

> > is an

> > > event which can be measured and visualized even at the moment

of

> its

> > > happening and hence it is more acceptable. Since Uttarayan is a

> > declination

> > > based conditional phenomena therefore, 270 degrees there from,

> it

> > is makar

> > > sankranti i.e. the start of Uttarayana. As given in our

> reference

> > Patrak ,

> > > Mesh sankranti occurred on 21/03/07 at 05/35/18 Hrs IST and

> Makar

> > Sankranti

> > > will be occurring at 11/37/06 Hrs IST of 22/12/07. These are

> > topocentric

> > > ingresses timings for Deli Lats/Longs and are also confirmed

> from

> > Swiss

> > > Ephemeris.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > 16. Sir, acceptance of Rashis is a truth for calculation

> purposes

> > even if

> > > these being imaginary like Longitudes which have no mark

> anywhere.

> > After all

> > > we are identifying certain place in sky or say ZODIAC with the

> help

> > of these

> > > rashis. These are measured from zero point of zodiac and there

> is

> > no harm in

> > > accepting zero degree aries as zero degree ashwini because

> > imaginary signs

> > > must have their imaginary nakshtras. Days

(Sunday,maonday.....),

> > Rashis and

> > > such nakshtras of astrological zodiac all are quite framed and

> > accepted at

> > > different stages of kaAlkram (samey chakra). These are not

vedic

> but

> > > definitely traced or fixed or adopted by vedic persons and use

> of

> > these

> > > things have benefited the mankind which is the sole purpose of

> any

> > > knowledge. Anyhow let's be guided by our own age and

> experiences.

> > So keep

> > > predictive astrology forgotten and do keep continue for

calendar

> > reform if

> > > at all you really desire so.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > 17. Sir, calling the Akhil Bhartiya Panchanga Sudhar Samiti a

> > DEFUNCT is

> > > really laughable. It was functional because you were president

> and

> > now it is

> > > defunct because you are not at that! Is it so? Better we free

> > ourselves from

> > > such proud and come out to stand on realities.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > 18. And at last - if I Informed the members that samvat 2065

> > starts from

> > > Saturday 08th March 2008, in which sense it was unpleasant to

> you.

> > Is it

> > > wrong?

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Aum Sham.

> > >

> > > With regards

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Darshaney Lokesh

> > >

> > > Genl.Secretary

> > >

> > > A.B.Panchanga Sudhar samiti

> > >

> > > Greater Noida(UP) -201308

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > .

> > >

> > >

> > > <http://geo./serv?

> > s=97359714/grpId=13815029/grpspId=1705075991/msgI

> > > d=2067/stime=1181958957/nc1=3848544/nc2=4507179/nc3=3848568>

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Shri Sreenadhji,

Namaskar!

the " Yajnyavalkya Smriti " is a much later work -- post Greek

invasion, in any case! Mangal and Shani are " available " in the

Atharva Jyotisha also, and that is also supposed to be a work of

about 3rd century BCE but that also doe not contain any Rashis!

 

I have to look for Rashis in the Vedas since I want to make a

calendar on the pattern of the the Vedas/Vedanga Jyotisha. But

since there are no Rashis there either, it means our calendars

should be bereft of Rashis as against today's calendars which talk

of nothing but rashis! I pray to all the jyotishis to leave our

calendars alone as such, since there is an inherent conflict between

phalit-jyotish and calendar reform. The former cannot do without

rashis whereas the latter gets derailed the moment we involve

raswhis - whether sayana or nirayana!

 

Regards,

AKK

, " Sreenadh "

<sreesog wrote:

>

> Dear Koul ji,

> ==>

> > Even the " greatest Vedic astrologer "

> > of the last century has not been able to quote even a single

Vedic

> > mantra that could enumerate Mesha etc. Rashis,or Mangal, Shani

etc.

> > planets in the Vedas...

> <==

> The attribute 'greatest Vedic astrologer' to anybody is

irrelevant.

> But for sure the Mars and Saturn are mentioned by Vedaic

literature

> (refer the pdf I supplied) and Signs such as Aries in Yanjacha

Valkya

> Smriti. Further as told earlier, Vedas are wrong place to look for

> such info.

> Love,

> Sreenadh

>

> , " Avtar Krishen

Kaul "

> <jyotirved@> wrote:

> >

> > Shri Sreenadhji,

> > Namaskar!

> >

> > <I am referring to Chandra Hai and his book 'Hindu Zodiac' in

which

> > your efforts are also amply referenced.>

> >

> > I know Shri Chandra Hari peronally. He was kind enough to come

to

> > my house at Rohini and give me a copy of his Hindu Zodiac with

his

> > compliments. I have gone through that book and noted his

comments

> > about my stand regarding zero ayanamsha etc!

> >

> > You must have noted through my various posts that I keep on

> exposing

> > my own erlier half-baked theories with later discoveries! The

> > imputs for all those changes are from different quarters. Since

as

> > on date, I find that there are no Mesha etc. Rashis in the Vedas

or

> > Brahamanas or Upanashidas or the Vedangas, it is futile to

quibble

> > as to which ayanamsha, including zero ayanamsha, is correct and

why

> > as far as Vedic astrology goes!

> >

> > Your next point is:

> > < Please note that the view of the " Calendar Reform Committee "

> > headed

> > > by Saha could have been primarily got corrupted because-

> > > 1) He never hand any direct understanding of the theoretical

> > > foundations of the Indian astronomical system or the real

purpose

> > of

> > > big numbers such as the Yuga numbers. Even after the

> > recommendations,

> > > he was unaware of the real theoretical foundations of the

Indian

> > > system, or how the system evolved in India.>

> >

> > I have made it very clear in my mails that I did not take the

> > statements of Dr. Saha or S. B. Dikshit or any other scholar,

for

> > that matter, at the face value but delved deeper and deeper into

> the

> > Vedas and other shastras myself, if only to prove all those

> scholars

> > wrong! Similarly, I have gone through all the prominent

sidhantas

> > viz. the Panchasidhantika, the Surya Sidhanta, the 'Aryabhati,

the

> > vateshwara Sidhanta, the Lall Tantra etc. etc. besides the last

> > Indian sidhanta viz. Sidhanta Shiromani of Bhaskaracharya. I

have

> > even studied the Grahalaghava! However, I was caught on the

wrong

> > foot and to my dismay found that there were really no Rashis in

any

> > of the Vedas or the Vedangas or even the indigenous sidhantas

like

> > Pitamaha Sidhanta etc. As such, unless I am able to vindicate my

> > stand to the contrary i.e. unless I am able to prove that there

> are

> > Mesha etc. Rashis in the Vedas or the Upanishadas or the Vedanga

> > Jyotisha etc. etc. I cannot fault such scholars like S B

Dikshit

> or

> > Dr. Gorakh Prasad etc. etc. or even Prof. Daftary, for that

matter!

> > There are quite a few Sanskrit scholars from south India also

who

> > are of the same view i.e. there are no rashis in the Vedas and

> > astrology is a bane for India that came from outside!

> >

> > The term " Vedic astrology " was coined by a videshi Vamadeva and

it

> > was lapped by Indian jyotishis so that they could market their

> > phalit jyotisha in overseas countires as anything in the name of

> > Vedic has a better chance of selling there than just " Hindu " . As

> > such, Hindu astrology was re-christened as Vedic astrology in

the

> > seventies of the last century. Even the " greatest Vedic

> astrologer "

> > of the last century has not been able to quote even a single

Vedic

> > mantra that could enumerate Mesha etc. Rashis,or Mangal, Shani

etc.

> > planets in the Vedas, though he went or " parroting " the

word " Vedic

> > astrology " , " Vedic astrology " . Naturally, if someone claims to

be

> > an authority on a subject and then fails to quote even a single

> > pramana for the same, his credentials do become suspect!

> >

> > As far as I am concerned, it is immaterial as to whether it is

> known

> > as Vedic astrology or Pauranic astrology or astrology by

> > charlatans -- the problem arises that I get into a headlong

> > conflict with all the jyotishis -- whether sayana or nirayana --

 

> > when it comes to streamlining the Hindu calendar! The ironical

> part

> > is that we do not need any Mesha etc. Rashis -- whether sayana

or

> > nirayana -- for our real Vedic calendars -- as is evident from

> the

> > Vedanga Jyotisha, the Yajur Jyotisha, the Atharva Jyotisha and

the

> > Pitamaha Sidhanta etc. etc. But since the business of calendar

> > making has been monoplozied by " Vedic jyotishis " and " Vedic

> > panchanga-makers " we as Hindus are left high and dry and made to

> > celebrate all our festivals on wrong days and marriages during

the

> > actual shradhapaksha and shradhapaksha during a period that may

> > actually be auspicious for marriages! In fact, we are forced to

> > celebrate Pitramavasya on the day of actual Dipavali, thanks to

> > these " Vedic Jyotishis " . I cannot let such a situation

continue,

> > even if I have to wage a " thosand year war " for the same and

that

> > also sinngle handed!

> > Regards,

> > AKK

> > PS I am posting a separate letter as to why we do not need any

> Mesha

> > etc. Rashis for steamlining our calendars.

> > AKK

> >

> >

> > , " Sreenadh "

> > <sreesog@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Kaul ji,

> > > I can imagine how the things went.

> > >

> > > The following note attracted my special attention.

> > > ==>

> > > > However, after going through the Report of the Calendar

Reform

> > > > Committee of Dr. M. N. Saha; and Bharatiya Jyotisha Shastra

of

> S

> > B

> > > > Dikshit and the works of several other Indian scholars, who

had

> > no

> > > > axe to grind, I was surprised to find that all of them

claimed

> > that

> > > > there were no Rashis in the Vedas, Upanishadas, Brahmans

etc.

> > etc.

> > > > but they were just imports from Babylon via Greeks! Instead

of

> > > > just taking those statements at their face value, I studied

all

> > the

> > > > Vedas and other shastras personally and was surprised to

> > > > find that there were actually no rashis in those shastras!

> > > <==

> > > Dear Kaul ji, please note that there is some body in the same

> > plane

> > > but who took a different rute. Some body who had dedicated

almost

> > > half of a dictionary like big book to discuss

> the " Recommendations

> > > and Observations " of Calendar Reform Committee alone. I am

> > referring

> > > to Chandra Hai and his book 'Hindu Zodiac' in which your

efforts

> > are

> > > also amply referenced. I will try to get a copy of the book

and

> > > provide it to you. May be at least the observation

about 'Surya

> > > Sidhanta' may change.

> > > Please note that the view of the " Calendar Reform Committee "

> > headed

> > > by Saha could have been primarily got corrupted because-

> > > 1) He never hand any direct understanding of the theoretical

> > > foundations of the Indian astronomical system or the real

purpose

> > of

> > > big numbers such as the Yuga numbers. Even after the

> > recommendations,

> > > he was unaware of the real theoretical foundations of the

Indian

> > > system, or how the system evolved in India.

> > > 2)Lahari was a member of the " Calendar Reform Committee " and

was

> > > already publishing an " Ephemeris " and (there is all the

> > possibility

> > > that) the natural corruption ended up supporting the same for

the

> > > whole of India!

> > > 3) Note that Saha failed to provide enough or proper

supporting

> > > evidence for the use of Chitra as a star at 180 degree of the

> > zodiac,

> > > and also that he himself was aware of this fact.

> > >

> > > So, before believing on the " findings " of the " Calendar

Reform

> > > Committee " headed by Saha, I think a scholarly study (please

not

> > > just 'reading') of the of the system, logic and theoretical

> > > foundation used by the ancient astrological texts is a must;

> Which

> > to

> > > an extend is provided by Chandra Hari's work 'Hindu Zodiac'.

> > > Two of you get irritated and become angry so easly - but I

think

> > > that is the common nature of the some peculiar type of

geniuses.

> > If

> > > two of you co-operate, or at least study each others works,

the

> > > opinions may change. As you may know Chandra Hari is an ONGC

> > Engineer

> > > and not an (professional or even armature) astrologer who

depends

> > on

> > > astrology for a living or have any vested interest on the

same.

> > His

> > > interest in astronomy/astrology is also purely intellectual.

He

> is

> > > very good in astronomical mathematics and most of his

> > contributions

> > > are in that direction. He has published several other books -

> > > commentaries of Hari Nama Kertana etc - which is not relevant

> > here.

> > > He too with the help of one of my Kerala friend " Srinivasan "

who

> > is

> > > well versed in ancient style of astronomical mathematics [even

> > done

> > > instantaneously from memory using shells alone - they don't

even

> > need

> > > an ephemeris to calculate the planetary position! All the

steps

> > for

> > > calculation as per " Drikganita " style is by heart to them]

> started

> > > publishing a new Panchaga (Ephemeris) as per True Ayanamsa

(based

> > on

> > > Surya sidhanta and proposed by Chandrahari). I should add that

> the

> > > sale -- similar to almost all of his books :=) --- failed

> > miserably

> > > but still due to dedication to the subject I think he is going

to

> > > invest his hard earned salary on such publishing efforts in

> future

> > as

> > > well. :=)

> > >

> > > * So being the people in similar boat -- going in different

> > > directions -- even though the aim is the same (i.e. Calendar

> > Reform);

> > > you too may have much to share.

> > >

> > > * But in all my conversations I will pray both of you to be

> > polite,

> > > but still even though with all my positive spirit I may hope

the

> > same

> > > to happen, after seeing the attitudes of both of you, I can

only

> > pray

> > > to god! Oh! God! Let them make children and to fight and

forget

> it

> > in

> > > the next moment and then too be good friends. :=)

> > >

> > > * At the end the point is - the book " Hindu Zodic " discusses

the

> > > recommendations as well as the pit falls committed

by " Calendar

> > > Reform Committee " headed by Saha and there for could be of

> > interest

> > > to you.

> > >

> > > Note: By the way, Chandrahari is almost equally psychic like

you,

> > > otherwise who will publish an encyclopedia like book to deal

with

> > a

> > > singe subject, Hindu Zodiac, pubish it by spending money from

own

> > > pocket and try to sell it for Rs.600 per book!! I don't think

not

> > > even 25% of that book got sold, or even if it did, he might

not

> > have

> > > got even 10% of the money back. :=) Even I was asking for a

free

> > > copy, and read it free from taking if from 'Srinivasan', and

yet

> > to

> > > buy it. Or possibly never by it since 'Chandra Hari' had

already

> > > promised me a free copy. I couldn't grasp almost half of

the

> > book,

> > > because I am an still an elementary student on ancient Indian

> > > astronomy. :=) If that is my condition, I wonder what would be

> the

> > > condition of other common people who are reading that book!

> > > By now fore sure you might have guessed that the money of

> > Chandra

> > > Hari spend of publishing " Hindu Zodiac " is gone(!) even though

he

> > may

> > > retort that he don't mind! He is also after Tantra, possibly

like

> > you

> > > (I don't know much about your Upasana methods) - and may

> > retort, " It

> > > is for Davi " .

> > > * In the files section of this group inside the folder

> > > named " ChandraHari " you will find a

> > > document " Basics_of_the_Ayanamsa_Dispute.doc " which is nothing

> but

> > > some of the initial chapters of Hari's book " Hindu Zodiac " .

Those

> > > detailed discussion about the recommendations of " Calendar

reform

> > > committee " you will find in that document.

> > > * What ever I could make out (with my feeble brain) about the

> > > mathematical conclusions and directions he provide in his book

is

> > > present in the article " Hindu Zodiac.pdf " present inside the

> files

> > > section of the forum inside the " Sreenadh " folder.

> > > Hope this helps.

> > > Love,

> > > Sreenadh

> > >

> > > , " jyotirved "

> > > <jyotirved@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > HinduCalendar

> > > [HinduCalendar ]

> > > > On Behalf Of jyotirved

> > > >

> > > > Shri Darshaney Lokeshji,

> > > >

> > > > Namaskar!

> > > >

> > > > Please go through my posts again. You have given transit

> > timings as

> > > > topocentric for Delhi in your " Tithi Patrak " . Even the

> examples

> > > you have

> > > > quoted are wrong. You have said

> > > >

> > > > <I have checked some timing as per the Swiss Ephemeris. For

> > example

> > > today

> > > > 11/06/2007 moon transit is correct. 21 June, sun's transit'

05

> > June

> > > Venus

> > > > transit, 25 June mars transit 19 December Jupiter transit,

> > > >

> > > > However, as per the same Swiss Ephemeris that you are

quoting,

> > > Moon at 12

> > > > hrs 32mts 42 secds (UT) for Delhi is Moon 0 ta 44'

> 53.6350.

> > > Obviously,

> > > > it has already covered about 45 arcminutes in Taurus at 18-

12-

> 42

> > > (IST) when

> > > > you say it entered into Taurus! That means it was roughly

about

> > two

> > > hours

> > > > back that it had entered Taurus!

> > > >

> > > > Similarly sun for June 21 at 18-7-9 UT is Sun 0 cn 0'

> 1.7032.

> > It

> > > means it

> > > > is already over by about two arcseconds! (It takes sun

about

> 24

> > > seconds of

> > > > time to cover one arcsecond. Thus it should have been 23hrs

36

> > mts

> > > IST for

> > > > topocentric ingress for Delhi. Why did you give ingress

> timings

> > > even in

> > > > seconds? Just to confuse a reader about the accuracy of

your

> > > panchanga,

> > > > when you cannot give even the minute of solar ingress

> correctly?)

> > > >

> > > > Similarly Venus is supposed to have entered Simha at 23-29-

11

> > (IST)

> > > when as

> > > > per the same Swiss Ephemeris it is Venus 29 cn

> > 59 '59.9288

> > > which

> > > > means it is still in Cancer at that point of time!

> > > >

> > > > According to you Mars entered Taurus on June 25 at 3-54-32

IST

> > > which means

> > > > 22-24-32 of June 24, UT. Mars at that point of time was Mars

0

> ta

> > > > 1'44.8001. Thus it would have taken it more than about

three

> > hours

> > > to enter

> > > > into that sign! And you are supposed to have given even the

> > ingress

> > > second

> > > > correctly!

> > > >

> > > > Similarly, you say Jupiter will enter Makar on December 19

at 1-

> > 41-

> > > 29 IST

> > > > where Jupiter longitude at that time is Jupiter 29 sa

> > > 59'59.9608. In

> > > > other words, it is still in Dhanus at that second of IST/UT

> > > >

> > > > That much for your accuracy!

> > > >

> > > > Your another point is

> > > >

> > > > <. I get you reminded your own and that too very latest

> > > words, " Please

> > > > rest assured that I have full faith in you regarding our

> calendar

> > > > reform...... " Now, for you I have become a person who does

not

> > know

> > > even the

> > > > basics i.e. starting of bright and dark fortnights of a

month?

> > You

> > > were not

> > > > like this ever before. Is it forgotten that you have

referred

> > the

> > > submitted

> > > > panchang to many other members and uploaded the same to some

> > other

> > > groups

> > > > also? May you be asked, why?>

> > > >

> > > > My dear Shri Lokesh ji, I am sure you know that our

association

> > has

> > > been a

> > > > professional one. You also know that I was a staunch

believer

> > in

> > > nirayana

> > > > panchangas and nirayana astrology for quite sometime, like

you

> > and

> > > everybody

> > > > else. With the passage of time, I came to the conclusion

that

> > the

> > > so called

> > > > nirayana Rashischakra - actually nirayana rashichakras

galore -

> > > were not at

> > > > all feasible for our calendars. This I clarified through my

> > various

> > > > panchangas right from 1996 onwards till 2001. Even several

> years

> > > after that,

> > > > I laboured under the delusion that the Vedas were talking of

a

> > so

> > > called

> > > > Sayana Rashichakra! You and Shri Mahtolia and many others

felt

> > the

> > > same

> > > > thing. All of us had another common purpose also then --

to

> > > propagate the

> > > > " real Vedic Jyotish " since all of us, including myself,

were

> > under

> > > the

> > > > confusion that the Vedas are talking of nothing but Sayana

> > Jyotisha

> > > > including Phalita Jyotisha! We joined our hands and heads

> > together

> > > and

> > > > formed an " All India Calendar Reform Committee " at a much

later

> > > stage of

> > > > which I was asked to be the President.

> > > >

> > > > However, after going through the Report of the Calendar

Reform

> > > Committee of

> > > > Dr. M. N. Saha; and Bharatiya Jyotisha Shastra of S B

Dikshit

> > and

> > > the works

> > > > of several other Indian scholars, who had no axe to grind, I

> was

> > > surprised

> > > > to find that all of them claimed that there were no Rashis

in

> > the

> > > Vedas,

> > > > Upanishadas, Brahmans etc. etc. but they were just imports

from

> > > Babylon via

> > > > Greeks! Instead of just taking those statements at their

face

> > > value, I

> > > > studied all the Vedas and other shastras personally and was

> > > surprised to

> > > > find that there were actually no rashis in those shastras!

> This

> > I

> > > brought

> > > > to your and Shri Mahtolia's notice during our first meeting

at

> > my

> > > house at

> > > > Rohini. I had also made it very clear then that though it

was a

> > > > contradiction of my own stand of a few years' back, but I

could

> > not

> > > help it

> > > > since I could not go on advocating something for which there

> > were

> > > no proofs.

> > > > At least my conscience would not allow it.

> > > >

> > > > In the meantime, you collected " applications " from about 20

> > people

> > > who

> > > > wanted to join the Akhil Bharatiya Panchanga Sudhara

Samiti.

> > When

> > > I went

> > > > through those " application forms " , I was surprised to see

that

> > all

> > > of them

> > > > were actually phalit jyotishis and they were under the

> > impression

> > > that they

> > > > would be able to earn more money by practising sayana phalit

> > > jyotish in the

> > > > name of Vedic jyotish, reforming the calendar being a time

> > pass!

> > > All of

> > > > them seemed to be under the delusion that the Vedas were

full

> of

> > > Sayana

> > > > Rashis and Sayana Phalit jyotish!

> > > >

> > > > I just did not want any such confusions that would defeat

the

> > very

> > > purpose

> > > > of the Samiti that instead of reforming the calendar we

would

> > just

> > > deform it

> > > > further by trying to link sayana rashis with the Vedic

calendar

> > > etc. As

> > > > such, I sent a seven page letter in Hindi to all of them,

> > > explaining to them

> > > > in detail as to how we had been taken for a ride by the

Greeks

> > by

> > > spreading

> > > > their tentacles of astrology through Mesha etc. astrological

> > Rashis

> > > in

> > > > India, which was later re-christened as " Vedic jyotish " by

> > overseas

> > > > " Vamadevas " . This letter is in the files section

as " PSS.doc "

> > even

> > > today.

> > > >

> > > > You were much against my sending any such letter to anybody

> > since,

> > > as a hind

> > > > sight, I feel that you knew that all those members wanted to

> > > associate with

> > > > the " Samiti " only to hone their astrological skills and

> increase

> > > their money

> > > > earning power by dint of " sayana Vedic jyotish " ! Not

> > surprisingly,

> > > I did

> > > > not get any response from anybody, including you and Shri

Dalip

> > > Langoo or

> > > > Shri Sanjay Kumar Mehta etc. etc. The only response I got

was

> > from

> > > Shri

> > > > Mahtolia and he had summed up his stand in the words that I

was

> > > acting more

> > > > like Macaulay since I was denying Rashis and phalit jyotish

in

> > the

> > > Vedas!

> > > >

> > > > That much for worthy Vic-Presidents and General Secretaries

and

> > > Treasurers

> > > > and secretaries of the " Samiti " .

> > > >

> > > > Since nobody responded, it means technically the ABPSS

> comprised

> > > just a

> > > > President, a Vice-Presidnet, a General Secretary and

Secretary,

> > > though

> > > > neither the GS nor the Secretary nor the Treasurer responded

to

> > the

> > > letter!

> > > > If the would be members could not muster courage to come

clean

> > of

> > > their

> > > > views in their own forums, how do you expect them to be ale

to

> > > convince

> > > > others about the aims and goals of the Samiti?

> > > >

> > > > Then there was another bolt from the blue! Even if somehow

or

> > the

> > > other, by

> > > > hook or by crook, you just thrust the sayana Rashichakra

down

> > the

> > > throat of

> > > > unsuspecting public, you just could not link the real

> nakshatras

> > > with those

> > > > (Sayana) Rashis at any cost!

> > > >

> > > > I have explained all these points at least a hundred times

> > through

> > > various

> > > > posts and mails on this forum. I had explained the same

thing

> > to

> > > you during

> > > > our last meeting at my house in Rohini.

> > > >

> > > > It appears to me you are deliberately evading the issue

since

> it

> > is

> > > > impossible that you have not grasped the hopelessness of

your

> > stand

> > > of

> > > > including sayana Rashis and Sayana nakshatras in your

panchanga

> > for

> > > muhurta

> > > > and festivals etc. etc. Since you have decided to include

> sayana

> > > planetary

> > > > longitudes also in your panchanga next year, and since you

are

> > > presenting

> > > > yourself as " General Secretary of Panchanga Sudhar Samiti "

I

> > just

> > > do not

> > > > want to associate myself in such an adharmic activity in any

> way

> > > whatsoever.

> > > > This I had explained to you in no uncertain terms before

> > > withdrawing my

> > > > association.

> > > >

> > > > We must not forget that the late N C Lahiri was also the

> > Secretary

> > > of the

> > > > Saha Calendar Reform Committee. As is well known already,

> > instead

> > > of going

> > > > by the real Vedic dictum, he just tried to sway every other

> > member

> > > in the

> > > > favour of a so called Lahiri Rashichakra and he succeeded in

> > it.

> > > In other

> > > > words, he succeeded in sabotaging the real calendar reform

and

> > > keeping his

> > > > " Lahiri's Indian Ephemeris " and " Vishudha Sidhanta Panjika "

a

> > > perpetual

> > > > breadwinner for himself and his offspring at the cost of

Vedic

> > > dharma. It

> > > > appears that you as a general Secretary of a so

called " Akhila

> > > Bharatiya

> > > > Panchanga Sudhara Samiti " are working on the same lines --

you

> > are

> > > more

> > > > worried about the sales of your own Tithi Patrak than the

> actual

> > > reform of

> > > > Hindu calendar and muhurtas.

> > > >

> > > > All the remaining points raised by you are quite irrelevant

> > about

> > > reforming

> > > > the calendar, since like Lahiri and Lahiriwalas, you are

> > yourself

> > > bent on

> > > > " committing the entire Hindu society to adharma " on the

> > shoulders

> > > of " Akhila

> > > > Bharatiya Panchanga Sudhar Samiti " Honestly, I have no good

> > wishes

> > > for you

> > > > or your such a mission. On the other hand I will oppose any

> such

> > > ahdarmic

> > > > reforms with equal vehemence as I have been doing for Lahiri

> > > Rashichakra and

> > > > Lahiri festivals. And

> > > >

> > > > yatodharmas tato jayah!

> > > >

> > > > Dhnayavd.

> > > >

> > > > Avtar Krishen Kaul

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > _____

> > > >

> > > > HinduCalendar

> > > [HinduCalendar ]

> > > > On Behalf Of darshaney lokesh

> > > > Saturday, June 16, 2007 7:25 AM

> > > > Avtar Krishen Kaul; Hindu Calander

> > > > [HinduCalendar] Mohan Krity Arsh Tithi Patrak :

Please

> > > come to real

> > > > issue

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Dear friends.

> > > >

> > > > This is resending of the message

already

> > > mailed.

> > > > Please treat

> > > >

> > > > that one as cancelled due to wrong numbering of paras.Thanks.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Darshaney Lokesh

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Respected kaul Ji,

> > > >

> > > > Namastey.

> > > >

> > > > Your reference message dt 17 May 07 has given me a

sad

> > > picture of

> > > > your acting as an erudite person of the subject. The letter

is

> > > neither

> > > > ethically nor purposely right. But before entering into the

> > reply

> > > with due

> > > > respect and my humble submissions I'd like to request you (

as

> > well

> > > as to

> > > > every member of HinduCalendar group) -

> > > >

> > > > 1. Plz. Go through the msg No. 1298 and a

reply

> > msg

> > > dt 19 Sep

> > > > 2007 of Er. Vibhu Vishwamitra Rawat.

> > > >

> > > > 2. Plz see msg No. 1315 dt 27/09/2006 wherein

you

> > have

> > > > confirmed the recipt of printed panchanga by post. And for

your

> > > information

> > > > the patrak was published in the month of April 2007 and if

at

> > all

> > > there is

> > > > such serious negligence on your side then you also can well

> > imagine

> > > that how

> > > > much dangerous was it to trust on your president ship.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > 3. Sir, we had submitted the panchanga through internet and

> > > printed copies

> > > > by post to YOU and many of others like Patron, vice

president

> and

> > > > secretaries of the akhil bhartiya panchanga sudhar samiti,

who

> > are

> > > equally

> > > > learned of the subject.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > 4. Your congratulation letter, infact misguided us as we

> > presumed

> > > that you

> > > > have thoroughly gone through the Panchanga as the president

of

> > the

> > > samiti.

> > > > Naturally you were needed to do so. Moreover when I

personally

> > > visited you

> > > > at rohini you told me " Apki bhabhi ji ko to panchanga bahut

> > pasand

> > > aaya

> > > > hai....... "

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > 5. The panchanga was submitted to you in the month of

> > September

> > > andnow

> > > > only on account of my mentions in reply to sh Narayan Prasad

> you

> > > have not

> > > > only resigned from the president ship of the samiti but also

> > > dishonored me

> > > > on the basis of printing mistakes/ deference of a few

minutes

> > for

> > > which

> > > > reasons were already explained and on that explanations you

had

> > not

> > > reacted

> > > > any way.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > 6. I have checked some timing as per the Swiss Ephemeris.

For

> > > example today

> > > > 11/06/2007 moon transit is correct. 21 June, sun's transit'

05

> > June

> > > Venus

> > > > transit, 25 June mars transit 19 December Jupiter transit,

15

> > > December true

> > > > Rahu transit are correct. For 15 June 2007 the tithi,

nakshtra

> > and

> > > yoga

> > > > timings are correct as per even Swiss Ephemeris except in

case

> > of

> > > the Oct

> > > > 2007 as this page has been published uncorrected. I have

taken

> a

> > > responsible

> > > > note of these things. A comparison chart is also being

produced

> > > hereunder. I

> > > > would request my readers to expect a well progressed, error

> free

> > > (as to the

> > > > maximum capabilities of my own) and fully acceptable Patra

next

> > > year. In

> > > > This Patra of the next year we are prepared to give the

timings

> > of

> > > > Kshyatithi, nakshtras, lagnasarni for Delhi, daily planatery

> > > > longitudes/latitudes/speed, ecliptical obliquity and

nutation

> > for

> > > each day

> > > > at the time of sunrise. These are the needs of a Patra and

not

> > of a

> > > > Jantri.Giving planetary longitudes has an approval of Swami

> > > Brahmanand ji

> > > > Saraswati who is himself a Arya Samaji saint and has no

faith

> in

> > > predictive

> > > > astrology.He says, " Loag to bhagyavadi hain hee aur agar

apne

> > > grahspasht

> > > > nahin diye to unki newantam jaruraton ke liye bhi apka patra

> > > bekarka hoga.

> > > > Isliye grahspasht dene men koee burai nahin hai. "

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Comparison Chart

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Date

> > > >

> > > > As Per Mahesh

> > > >

> > > > As Per Mohan Krity Arsh Tithi Patrak - 2007

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Th

> > > >

> > > > Time

> > > >

> > > > Nak

> > > >

> > > > Time

> > > >

> > > > Yoga

> > > >

> > > > Time

> > > >

> > > > Th

> > > >

> > > > Time

> > > >

> > > > Nak

> > > >

> > > > Time

> > > >

> > > > Yoga

> > > >

> > > > Time

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > 1/3/2007

> > > >

> > > > 13

> > > >

> > > > 25:19:56

> > > >

> > > > MA

> > > >

> > > > 18:32:08

> > > >

> > > > DH

> > > >

> > > > 5:40:24

> > > >

> > > > 13

> > > >

> > > > 25:20

> > > >

> > > > MA

> > > >

> > > > 18:34

> > > >

> > > > DH

> > > >

> > > > 5:39

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > 1/4/2007

> > > >

> > > > 14

> > > >

> > > > 20:12:21

> > > >

> > > > HA

> > > >

> > > > 7:44:51

> > > >

> > > > HA

> > > >

> > > > 12:08:05

> > > >

> > > > 14

> > > >

> > > > 20:12

> > > >

> > > > HA

> > > >

> > > > 7:44

> > > >

> > > > HA

> > > >

> > > > 12:07

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > 1/5/2007

> > > >

> > > > 14

> > > >

> > > > 13:18:55

> > > >

> > > > VI

> > > >

> > > > 22:56:10

> > > >

> > > > PA

> > > >

> > > > 21:08:10

> > > >

> > > > 14

> > > >

> > > > 13:17

> > > >

> > > > VI

> > > >

> > > > 22:55

> > > >

> > > > PA

> > > >

> > > > 21:07

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > 1/6/2007

> > > >

> > > > 15

> > > >

> > > > 6:34:34

> > > >

> > > > MU

> > > >

> > > > 12:40:09

> > > >

> > > > SH

> > > >

> > > > 5:52:15

> > > >

> > > > 15

> > > >

> > > > 6:33

> > > >

> > > > MU

> > > >

> > > > 12:37

> > > >

> > > > SH

> > > >

> > > > 5:50

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > 1/7/2007

> > > >

> > > > 16

> > > >

> > > > 19:11:41

> > > >

> > > > SH

> > > >

> > > > 22:48:14

> > > >

> > > > PR

> > > >

> > > > 12:16:47

> > > >

> > > > 16

> > > >

> > > > 19:07

> > > >

> > > > SH

> > > >

> > > > 22:44

> > > >

> > > > PR

> > > >

> > > > 12:13

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > 1/8/2007

> > > >

> > > > 18

> > > >

> > > > 25:07:47

> > > >

> > > > PB

> > > >

> > > > 4:55:16

> > > >

> > > > DH

> > > >

> > > > 12:51:59

> > > >

> > > > 18

> > > >

> > > > 25:05

> > > >

> > > > PB

> > > >

> > > > 27:37

> > > >

> > > > DH

> > > >

> > > > 12:48

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > 1/9/2007

> > > >

> > > > 20

> > > >

> > > > 25:54:17

> > > >

> > > > BH

> > > >

> > > > 5:37:55

> > > >

> > > > HA

> > > >

> > > > 8:24:24

> > > >

> > > > 20

> > > >

> > > > 25:59

> > > >

> > > > BH

> > > >

> > > > 5:36

> > > >

> > > > HA

> > > >

> > > > 8:23

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > 1/11/2007

> > > >

> > > > 22

> > > >

> > > > 14:51:24

> > > >

> > > > SH

> > > >

> > > > 10:19:03

> > > >

> > > > AI

> > > >

> > > > 24:19:07

> > > >

> > > > 22

> > > >

> > > > 15:02

> > > >

> > > > SH

> > > >

> > > > 10:21

> > > >

> > > > AI

> > > >

> > > > 24:21

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > 1/12/2007

> > > >

> > > > 22

> > > >

> > > > 5:47:59

> > > >

> > > > UP

> > > >

> > > > 20:17:39

> > > >

> > > > SA

> > > >

> > > > 28:01:02

> > > >

> > > > 22

> > > >

> > > > 5:47

> > > >

> > > > UP

> > > >

> > > > 20:21

> > > >

> > > > SA

> > > >

> > > > 28:00

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > 1/1/2008

> > > >

> > > > 24

> > > >

> > > > 28:51:25

> > > >

> > > > SW

> > > >

> > > > 10:52:04

> > > >

> > > > SH

> > > >

> > > > 10:35:00

> > > >

> > > > 24

> > > >

> > > > 28:50

> > > >

> > > > SW

> > > >

> > > > 10:52

> > > >

> > > > SH

> > > >

> > > > 10:35

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > 1/2/2008

> > > >

> > > > 25

> > > >

> > > > 28:41:36

> > > >

> > > > MU

> > > >

> > > > 30:26:03

> > > >

> > > > VA

> > > >

> > > > 19:34:32

> > > >

> > > > 25

> > > >

> > > > 28:38

> > > >

> > > > MU

> > > >

> > > > 30:22

> > > >

> > > > VA

> > > >

> > > > 19:31

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > 1/3/2008

> > > >

> > > > 24

> > > >

> > > > 23:05:37

> > > >

> > > > PA

> > > >

> > > > 17:26:56

> > > >

> > > > PA

> > > >

> > > > 27:18:33

> > > >

> > > > 24

> > > >

> > > > 23:03

> > > >

> > > > PA

> > > >

> > > > 17:23

> > > >

> > > > PA

> > > >

> > > > 27:16

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > 1/3/2008

> > > >

> > > > 24

> > > >

> > > > 23:05:37

> > > >

> > > > PA

> > > >

> > > > 17:26:56

> > > >

> > > > PA

> > > >

> > > > 27:18:33

> > > >

> > > > 24

> > > >

> > > > 23:03

> > > >

> > > > PA

> > > >

> > > > 17:23

> > > >

> > > > PA

> > > >

> > > > 27:16

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > 7. Some of the mistakes found in the patrak have been

noticed

> > on

> > > account of

> > > > publisher/printing and my own. A correction letter has

already

> > been

> > > issued

> > > > on 27th of April 2007. The letter is in Hindi (Krutidev 12

> font)

> > > and is

> > > > attached herewith for information in support and covers

almost

> > all

> > > the real

> > > > mistakes. Even a second correction letter may be issued

later.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > 8. I get you reminded your own and that too very latest

> > > words, " Please

> > > > rest assured that I have full faith in you regarding our

> calendar

> > > > reform...... " Now, for you I have become a person who does

not

> > know

> > > even the

> > > > basics i.e. starting of bright and dark fortnights of a

month?

> > You

> > > were not

> > > > like this ever before. Is it forgotten that you have

referred

> > the

> > > submitted

> > > > panchang to many other members and uploaded the same to some

> > other

> > > groups

> > > > also? May you be asked, why?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > 9. " Mohan krity Arsh Tithi patrak samvat 2007 " was my

first

> > > attempt of

> > > > publishing any book and calculating the panchanga details

under

> > the

> > > > guidelines from you and other learned of the samiti. I would

> > like

> > > you to get

> > > > again reminded that in your Panchanga of 2001 you have given

31

> > > days to the

> > > > month of February. In a very important letter to all of the

> > members

> > > of the

> > > > samiti you have mentioned Hemant sampat as a day of equal

day

> > and

> > > neight

> > > > duration. I am not intended to make fun of you nor I was

ever

> > > before. I know

> > > > that these are just like the slip of pen and have no

> correlation

> > > with the

> > > > knowledge of you, a person of highly profiled and quoted

> > > credentials.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > 10. Sir, many a times I have advised you for not making

fun

> of

> > > others like

> > > > ALMIGHTY LAHIRI, KALIYUGI VEDIC JYOTISHI, TAPASWANI etc and

> that

> > too

> > > > repeatedly in a monotonous way because it gives reflection

of

> > > ethical dwarf

> > > > ness and to others it becomes a matter of their wider

> > recognition.

> > > You are

> > > > in fact not a sagacious person that's why in a mannered way

I

> > had

> > > requested

> > > > you to think twice before you speak and thrice before you

write

> > any

> > > thing.

> > > > The Patrak was got published from Dwarka New Delhi. My main

> > problem

> > > remained

> > > > that I could not pay more than two visits from here i.e.

> Greater

> > > Noida. Most

> > > > of the time I had to explain my things to the publisher only

on

> > > phone.

> > > > Earlier the names of the Krishan Pakshas were as per the

> pattern

> > > adopted by

> > > > you in your panchangas. Later after vast consideration and

on

> the

> > > > suggessions of Mr BD Mahtolia Only Amant./ Shukladi system

was

> > > accepted. The

> > > > publisher could not do that amendments properly and thus

left a

> > > room for

> > > > almost all the paragraphs of your message I wish if you

could

> > have

> > > used your

> > > > common sense and at least contacted me on phone!

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > 11. If you could believe me during last four years by about

> > > Rs.93000.00, I

> > > > have expensed from my own for propagating the calendar

reform.

> > No

> > > member of

> > > > the samiti has ever contributed even a sum of Rs 100. Not a

> > single

> > > copy of

> > > > the panchanga has been sold so far. Even the distributors at

> > Delhi,

> > > > Moradabad, Meerut, Koatdwar and Dehradun have been supplied

> free

> > > copies. I

> > > > should thank GOD that I am well prepared for the five years

> > ahead

> > > for

> > > > continuing the publication of " Shri Mohan Krity Arsh Tithi

> > Patra. "

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > 12. Accept that of planetary longitudes most of your

> suggestions

> > > vide msg

> > > > NO. 1298 are being observed. As I have already told you that

> > many

> > > members

> > > > and Swami Brahmananda ji are in favor for daily planetary

> > > longitudes.So for

> > > > the timings of Moon, you know better of the reasons behind

the

> > > difference.

> > > > " Seconds " were dropped under your suggestion and we have not

> > > rounded off the

> > > > figures but hide them as such.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > 13. Sir, regarding Krishnadi or Amant system of naming

lunar

> > > months already

> > > > we discussed and finally disagreed. You are in favor of

> > Krishnadi

> > > system for

> > > > north India in fact in astrological areas we are not in

favor

> of

> > > keeping the

> > > > differences like north/south India or Hindi/non Hindi belt

etc.

> > > Already we

> > > > are too much divided and now what is needed is to get

ourselves

> > > united. I'd

> > > > like you to get reminded that once in a discussion you told

> > > me " Darshaney ji

> > > > dono hi sidhant vedic hain aur kam se kam itni baat abhi

rehne

> > dete

> > > hain

> > > > anyatha ye loag kahenge ki ye to hamari zad he katne per

tule

> > > hain. " I

> > > > requested you in reply " Jab hum reformation laa hee rahen

hain

> > to

> > > ise kiston

> > > > main na laker poori baat ko ek hee bar utha dena kaee accha

> > hai. "

> > > Logically

> > > > I am strict on counting of Poornimant/Shukladi system

because

> > > Shrishtiyadi

> > > > is itself shukladi and for that I'll be requesting every

Hindu

> > to

> > > be logical

> > > > and Vedic and hence correct.Not for my personal sake but for

> the

> > > sake of the

> > > > project, principles and ultimately for the calendar reform

> which

> > > the Hindus

> > > > need today, my request to you is to please continue co-

> > operation.

> > > Off

> > > > course, this is my last request as this reminds me " Payah

paAnam

> > > > bhujangaAnam..... . "

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > 14. The bone of contention has become the astrology i.e

> > > predictive mode

> > > > of astronomy. I want to make it clear that we understand the

> > sense

> > > of your

> > > > sermons against it. I have myself raised a doubt on the

> function

> > of

> > > > astrology as you may see my letter, years before, addressed

to

> > shri

> > > US Arya

> > > > of Dehradun. Even yet at this immature stage of today I am

> > against

> > > stopping

> > > > developments, experiences and researches in this field.

> > > Possibilities of the

> > > > development should be kept always open. Question does not

arise

> > of

> > > it's

> > > > being vedic or non vedic. Therefore, till we all reach to

the

> > > acceptable

> > > > conclusion we should keep aside the predictive astronomy.

Had

> > this

> > > not been

> > > > the issue then certainly sciences like homeopathy,

acupressure

> > and

> > > reki etc

> > > > would have never come in the recognition. Obviously, present

> > > astrology is

> > > > not a science for its acceptance of so many unscientific

bases.

> > You

> > > can

> > > > bring out all such bases instead of discarding astrology

itself.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > 15. For me 'Sayana' is not the zero ayanamsha but sayana is

> the

> > > master

> > > > factor for allocation of earth's situation with relation to

the

> > > sun. So, any

> > > > astro calculation for earth based purpose should necessarily

be

> > > sayana and

> > > > not non-sayana. Sayan Mesh sankranti i.e. zero degree of the

> > zodiac

> > > is an

> > > > event which can be measured and visualized even at the

moment

> of

> > its

> > > > happening and hence it is more acceptable. Since Uttarayan

is a

> > > declination

> > > > based conditional phenomena therefore, 270 degrees there

from,

> > it

> > > is makar

> > > > sankranti i.e. the start of Uttarayana. As given in our

> > reference

> > > Patrak ,

> > > > Mesh sankranti occurred on 21/03/07 at 05/35/18 Hrs IST and

> > Makar

> > > Sankranti

> > > > will be occurring at 11/37/06 Hrs IST of 22/12/07. These are

> > > topocentric

> > > > ingresses timings for Deli Lats/Longs and are also confirmed

> > from

> > > Swiss

> > > > Ephemeris.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > 16. Sir, acceptance of Rashis is a truth for calculation

> > purposes

> > > even if

> > > > these being imaginary like Longitudes which have no mark

> > anywhere.

> > > After all

> > > > we are identifying certain place in sky or say ZODIAC with

the

> > help

> > > of these

> > > > rashis. These are measured from zero point of zodiac and

there

> > is

> > > no harm in

> > > > accepting zero degree aries as zero degree ashwini because

> > > imaginary signs

> > > > must have their imaginary nakshtras. Days

> (Sunday,maonday.....),

> > > Rashis and

> > > > such nakshtras of astrological zodiac all are quite framed

and

> > > accepted at

> > > > different stages of kaAlkram (samey chakra). These are not

> vedic

> > but

> > > > definitely traced or fixed or adopted by vedic persons and

use

> > of

> > > these

> > > > things have benefited the mankind which is the sole purpose

of

> > any

> > > > knowledge. Anyhow let's be guided by our own age and

> > experiences.

> > > So keep

> > > > predictive astrology forgotten and do keep continue for

> calendar

> > > reform if

> > > > at all you really desire so.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > 17. Sir, calling the Akhil Bhartiya Panchanga Sudhar Samiti

a

> > > DEFUNCT is

> > > > really laughable. It was functional because you were

president

> > and

> > > now it is

> > > > defunct because you are not at that! Is it so? Better we

free

> > > ourselves from

> > > > such proud and come out to stand on realities.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > 18. And at last - if I Informed the members that samvat

2065

> > > starts from

> > > > Saturday 08th March 2008, in which sense it was unpleasant

to

> > you.

> > > Is it

> > > > wrong?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Aum Sham.

> > > >

> > > > With regards

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Darshaney Lokesh

> > > >

> > > > Genl.Secretary

> > > >

> > > > A.B.Panchanga Sudhar samiti

> > > >

> > > > Greater Noida(UP) -201308

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > .

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > <http://geo./serv?

> > > s=97359714/grpId=13815029/grpspId=1705075991/msgI

> > > > d=2067/stime=1181958957/nc1=3848544/nc2=4507179/nc3=3848568>

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Kaul ji,

==>

1) " Yajnyavalkya Smriti " is a much later work

2) Mangal and Shani are " available " in the Atharva Jyotisha also

<==

 

1) For the first statement provide your proofs.

2) As of the second statement I think you are referring to Atharva

Jyotisha part of Vedanga Jyosha by Lagadha and not to Adharva Veda I

hope. In which case also you should provide your proofs.

Love,

Sreenadh

 

, " Avtar Krishen Kaul "

<jyotirved wrote:

>

> Shri Sreenadhji,

> Namaskar!

> the " Yajnyavalkya Smriti " is a much later work -- post Greek

> invasion, in any case! Mangal and Shani are " available " in the

> Atharva Jyotisha also, and that is also supposed to be a work of

> about 3rd century BCE but that also doe not contain any Rashis!

>

> I have to look for Rashis in the Vedas since I want to make a

> calendar on the pattern of the the Vedas/Vedanga Jyotisha. But

> since there are no Rashis there either, it means our calendars

> should be bereft of Rashis as against today's calendars which talk

> of nothing but rashis! I pray to all the jyotishis to leave our

> calendars alone as such, since there is an inherent conflict

between

> phalit-jyotish and calendar reform. The former cannot do without

> rashis whereas the latter gets derailed the moment we involve

> raswhis - whether sayana or nirayana!

>

> Regards,

> AKK

> , " Sreenadh "

> <sreesog@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Koul ji,

> > ==>

> > > Even the " greatest Vedic astrologer "

> > > of the last century has not been able to quote even a single

> Vedic

> > > mantra that could enumerate Mesha etc. Rashis,or Mangal, Shani

> etc.

> > > planets in the Vedas...

> > <==

> > The attribute 'greatest Vedic astrologer' to anybody is

> irrelevant.

> > But for sure the Mars and Saturn are mentioned by Vedaic

> literature

> > (refer the pdf I supplied) and Signs such as Aries in Yanjacha

> Valkya

> > Smriti. Further as told earlier, Vedas are wrong place to look

for

> > such info.

> > Love,

> > Sreenadh

> >

> > , " Avtar Krishen

> Kaul "

> > <jyotirved@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Shri Sreenadhji,

> > > Namaskar!

> > >

> > > <I am referring to Chandra Hai and his book 'Hindu Zodiac' in

> which

> > > your efforts are also amply referenced.>

> > >

> > > I know Shri Chandra Hari peronally. He was kind enough to come

> to

> > > my house at Rohini and give me a copy of his Hindu Zodiac with

> his

> > > compliments. I have gone through that book and noted his

> comments

> > > about my stand regarding zero ayanamsha etc!

> > >

> > > You must have noted through my various posts that I keep on

> > exposing

> > > my own erlier half-baked theories with later discoveries! The

> > > imputs for all those changes are from different quarters.

Since

> as

> > > on date, I find that there are no Mesha etc. Rashis in the

Vedas

> or

> > > Brahamanas or Upanashidas or the Vedangas, it is futile to

> quibble

> > > as to which ayanamsha, including zero ayanamsha, is correct and

> why

> > > as far as Vedic astrology goes!

> > >

> > > Your next point is:

> > > < Please note that the view of the " Calendar Reform Committee "

> > > headed

> > > > by Saha could have been primarily got corrupted because-

> > > > 1) He never hand any direct understanding of the theoretical

> > > > foundations of the Indian astronomical system or the real

> purpose

> > > of

> > > > big numbers such as the Yuga numbers. Even after the

> > > recommendations,

> > > > he was unaware of the real theoretical foundations of the

> Indian

> > > > system, or how the system evolved in India.>

> > >

> > > I have made it very clear in my mails that I did not take the

> > > statements of Dr. Saha or S. B. Dikshit or any other scholar,

> for

> > > that matter, at the face value but delved deeper and deeper

into

> > the

> > > Vedas and other shastras myself, if only to prove all those

> > scholars

> > > wrong! Similarly, I have gone through all the prominent

> sidhantas

> > > viz. the Panchasidhantika, the Surya Sidhanta, the 'Aryabhati,

> the

> > > vateshwara Sidhanta, the Lall Tantra etc. etc. besides the last

> > > Indian sidhanta viz. Sidhanta Shiromani of Bhaskaracharya. I

> have

> > > even studied the Grahalaghava! However, I was caught on the

> wrong

> > > foot and to my dismay found that there were really no Rashis in

> any

> > > of the Vedas or the Vedangas or even the indigenous sidhantas

> like

> > > Pitamaha Sidhanta etc. As such, unless I am able to vindicate

my

> > > stand to the contrary i.e. unless I am able to prove that

there

> > are

> > > Mesha etc. Rashis in the Vedas or the Upanishadas or the

Vedanga

> > > Jyotisha etc. etc. I cannot fault such scholars like S B

> Dikshit

> > or

> > > Dr. Gorakh Prasad etc. etc. or even Prof. Daftary, for that

> matter!

> > > There are quite a few Sanskrit scholars from south India also

> who

> > > are of the same view i.e. there are no rashis in the Vedas and

> > > astrology is a bane for India that came from outside!

> > >

> > > The term " Vedic astrology " was coined by a videshi Vamadeva and

> it

> > > was lapped by Indian jyotishis so that they could market their

> > > phalit jyotisha in overseas countires as anything in the name

of

> > > Vedic has a better chance of selling there than just " Hindu " .

As

> > > such, Hindu astrology was re-christened as Vedic astrology in

> the

> > > seventies of the last century. Even the " greatest Vedic

> > astrologer "

> > > of the last century has not been able to quote even a single

> Vedic

> > > mantra that could enumerate Mesha etc. Rashis,or Mangal, Shani

> etc.

> > > planets in the Vedas, though he went or " parroting " the

> word " Vedic

> > > astrology " , " Vedic astrology " . Naturally, if someone claims to

> be

> > > an authority on a subject and then fails to quote even a single

> > > pramana for the same, his credentials do become suspect!

> > >

> > > As far as I am concerned, it is immaterial as to whether it is

> > known

> > > as Vedic astrology or Pauranic astrology or astrology by

> > > charlatans -- the problem arises that I get into a headlong

> > > conflict with all the jyotishis -- whether sayana or nirayana -

-

>

> > > when it comes to streamlining the Hindu calendar! The ironical

> > part

> > > is that we do not need any Mesha etc. Rashis -- whether sayana

> or

> > > nirayana -- for our real Vedic calendars -- as is evident

from

> > the

> > > Vedanga Jyotisha, the Yajur Jyotisha, the Atharva Jyotisha and

> the

> > > Pitamaha Sidhanta etc. etc. But since the business of calendar

> > > making has been monoplozied by " Vedic jyotishis " and " Vedic

> > > panchanga-makers " we as Hindus are left high and dry and made

to

> > > celebrate all our festivals on wrong days and marriages during

> the

> > > actual shradhapaksha and shradhapaksha during a period that may

> > > actually be auspicious for marriages! In fact, we are forced

to

> > > celebrate Pitramavasya on the day of actual Dipavali, thanks to

> > > these " Vedic Jyotishis " . I cannot let such a situation

> continue,

> > > even if I have to wage a " thosand year war " for the same and

> that

> > > also sinngle handed!

> > > Regards,

> > > AKK

> > > PS I am posting a separate letter as to why we do not need any

> > Mesha

> > > etc. Rashis for steamlining our calendars.

> > > AKK

> > >

> > >

> > > , " Sreenadh "

> > > <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Kaul ji,

> > > > I can imagine how the things went.

> > > >

> > > > The following note attracted my special attention.

> > > > ==>

> > > > > However, after going through the Report of the Calendar

> Reform

> > > > > Committee of Dr. M. N. Saha; and Bharatiya Jyotisha Shastra

> of

> > S

> > > B

> > > > > Dikshit and the works of several other Indian scholars, who

> had

> > > no

> > > > > axe to grind, I was surprised to find that all of them

> claimed

> > > that

> > > > > there were no Rashis in the Vedas, Upanishadas, Brahmans

> etc.

> > > etc.

> > > > > but they were just imports from Babylon via Greeks!

Instead

> of

> > > > > just taking those statements at their face value, I studied

> all

> > > the

> > > > > Vedas and other shastras personally and was surprised to

> > > > > find that there were actually no rashis in those shastras!

> > > > <==

> > > > Dear Kaul ji, please note that there is some body in the

same

> > > plane

> > > > but who took a different rute. Some body who had dedicated

> almost

> > > > half of a dictionary like big book to discuss

> > the " Recommendations

> > > > and Observations " of Calendar Reform Committee alone. I am

> > > referring

> > > > to Chandra Hai and his book 'Hindu Zodiac' in which your

> efforts

> > > are

> > > > also amply referenced. I will try to get a copy of the book

> and

> > > > provide it to you. May be at least the observation

> about 'Surya

> > > > Sidhanta' may change.

> > > > Please note that the view of the " Calendar Reform

Committee "

> > > headed

> > > > by Saha could have been primarily got corrupted because-

> > > > 1) He never hand any direct understanding of the theoretical

> > > > foundations of the Indian astronomical system or the real

> purpose

> > > of

> > > > big numbers such as the Yuga numbers. Even after the

> > > recommendations,

> > > > he was unaware of the real theoretical foundations of the

> Indian

> > > > system, or how the system evolved in India.

> > > > 2)Lahari was a member of the " Calendar Reform Committee " and

> was

> > > > already publishing an " Ephemeris " and (there is all the

> > > possibility

> > > > that) the natural corruption ended up supporting the same for

> the

> > > > whole of India!

> > > > 3) Note that Saha failed to provide enough or proper

> supporting

> > > > evidence for the use of Chitra as a star at 180 degree of the

> > > zodiac,

> > > > and also that he himself was aware of this fact.

> > > >

> > > > So, before believing on the " findings " of the " Calendar

> Reform

> > > > Committee " headed by Saha, I think a scholarly study (please

> not

> > > > just 'reading') of the of the system, logic and theoretical

> > > > foundation used by the ancient astrological texts is a must;

> > Which

> > > to

> > > > an extend is provided by Chandra Hari's work 'Hindu Zodiac'.

> > > > Two of you get irritated and become angry so easly - but I

> think

> > > > that is the common nature of the some peculiar type of

> geniuses.

> > > If

> > > > two of you co-operate, or at least study each others works,

> the

> > > > opinions may change. As you may know Chandra Hari is an ONGC

> > > Engineer

> > > > and not an (professional or even armature) astrologer who

> depends

> > > on

> > > > astrology for a living or have any vested interest on the

> same.

> > > His

> > > > interest in astronomy/astrology is also purely intellectual.

> He

> > is

> > > > very good in astronomical mathematics and most of his

> > > contributions

> > > > are in that direction. He has published several other books -

> > > > commentaries of Hari Nama Kertana etc - which is not relevant

> > > here.

> > > > He too with the help of one of my Kerala friend " Srinivasan "

> who

> > > is

> > > > well versed in ancient style of astronomical mathematics

[even

> > > done

> > > > instantaneously from memory using shells alone - they don't

> even

> > > need

> > > > an ephemeris to calculate the planetary position! All the

> steps

> > > for

> > > > calculation as per " Drikganita " style is by heart to them]

> > started

> > > > publishing a new Panchaga (Ephemeris) as per True Ayanamsa

> (based

> > > on

> > > > Surya sidhanta and proposed by Chandrahari). I should add

that

> > the

> > > > sale -- similar to almost all of his books :=) --- failed

> > > miserably

> > > > but still due to dedication to the subject I think he is

going

> to

> > > > invest his hard earned salary on such publishing efforts in

> > future

> > > as

> > > > well. :=)

> > > >

> > > > * So being the people in similar boat -- going in different

> > > > directions -- even though the aim is the same (i.e. Calendar

> > > Reform);

> > > > you too may have much to share.

> > > >

> > > > * But in all my conversations I will pray both of you to be

> > > polite,

> > > > but still even though with all my positive spirit I may hope

> the

> > > same

> > > > to happen, after seeing the attitudes of both of you, I can

> only

> > > pray

> > > > to god! Oh! God! Let them make children and to fight and

> forget

> > it

> > > in

> > > > the next moment and then too be good friends. :=)

> > > >

> > > > * At the end the point is - the book " Hindu Zodic " discusses

> the

> > > > recommendations as well as the pit falls committed

> by " Calendar

> > > > Reform Committee " headed by Saha and there for could be of

> > > interest

> > > > to you.

> > > >

> > > > Note: By the way, Chandrahari is almost equally psychic like

> you,

> > > > otherwise who will publish an encyclopedia like book to deal

> with

> > > a

> > > > singe subject, Hindu Zodiac, pubish it by spending money from

> own

> > > > pocket and try to sell it for Rs.600 per book!! I don't think

> not

> > > > even 25% of that book got sold, or even if it did, he might

> not

> > > have

> > > > got even 10% of the money back. :=) Even I was asking for a

> free

> > > > copy, and read it free from taking if from 'Srinivasan', and

> yet

> > > to

> > > > buy it. Or possibly never by it since 'Chandra Hari' had

> already

> > > > promised me a free copy. I couldn't grasp almost half of

> the

> > > book,

> > > > because I am an still an elementary student on ancient Indian

> > > > astronomy. :=) If that is my condition, I wonder what would

be

> > the

> > > > condition of other common people who are reading that

book!

> > > > By now fore sure you might have guessed that the money of

> > > Chandra

> > > > Hari spend of publishing " Hindu Zodiac " is gone(!) even

though

> he

> > > may

> > > > retort that he don't mind! He is also after Tantra, possibly

> like

> > > you

> > > > (I don't know much about your Upasana methods) - and may

> > > retort, " It

> > > > is for Davi " .

> > > > * In the files section of this group inside the folder

> > > > named " ChandraHari " you will find a

> > > > document " Basics_of_the_Ayanamsa_Dispute.doc " which is

nothing

> > but

> > > > some of the initial chapters of Hari's book " Hindu Zodiac " .

> Those

> > > > detailed discussion about the recommendations of " Calendar

> reform

> > > > committee " you will find in that document.

> > > > * What ever I could make out (with my feeble brain) about

the

> > > > mathematical conclusions and directions he provide in his

book

> is

> > > > present in the article " Hindu Zodiac.pdf " present inside the

> > files

> > > > section of the forum inside the " Sreenadh " folder.

> > > > Hope this helps.

> > > > Love,

> > > > Sreenadh

> > > >

> > > > , " jyotirved "

> > > > <jyotirved@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > HinduCalendar

> > > > [HinduCalendar ]

> > > > > On Behalf Of jyotirved

> > > > >

> > > > > Shri Darshaney Lokeshji,

> > > > >

> > > > > Namaskar!

> > > > >

> > > > > Please go through my posts again. You have given transit

> > > timings as

> > > > > topocentric for Delhi in your " Tithi Patrak " . Even the

> > examples

> > > > you have

> > > > > quoted are wrong. You have said

> > > > >

> > > > > <I have checked some timing as per the Swiss Ephemeris. For

> > > example

> > > > today

> > > > > 11/06/2007 moon transit is correct. 21 June, sun's transit'

> 05

> > > June

> > > > Venus

> > > > > transit, 25 June mars transit 19 December Jupiter transit,

> > > > >

> > > > > However, as per the same Swiss Ephemeris that you are

> quoting,

> > > > Moon at 12

> > > > > hrs 32mts 42 secds (UT) for Delhi is Moon 0 ta 44'

> > 53.6350.

> > > > Obviously,

> > > > > it has already covered about 45 arcminutes in Taurus at 18-

> 12-

> > 42

> > > > (IST) when

> > > > > you say it entered into Taurus! That means it was roughly

> about

> > > two

> > > > hours

> > > > > back that it had entered Taurus!

> > > > >

> > > > > Similarly sun for June 21 at 18-7-9 UT is Sun 0 cn 0'

> > 1.7032.

> > > It

> > > > means it

> > > > > is already over by about two arcseconds! (It takes sun

> about

> > 24

> > > > seconds of

> > > > > time to cover one arcsecond. Thus it should have been

23hrs

> 36

> > > mts

> > > > IST for

> > > > > topocentric ingress for Delhi. Why did you give ingress

> > timings

> > > > even in

> > > > > seconds? Just to confuse a reader about the accuracy of

> your

> > > > panchanga,

> > > > > when you cannot give even the minute of solar ingress

> > correctly?)

> > > > >

> > > > > Similarly Venus is supposed to have entered Simha at 23-29-

> 11

> > > (IST)

> > > > when as

> > > > > per the same Swiss Ephemeris it is Venus 29 cn

> > > 59 '59.9288

> > > > which

> > > > > means it is still in Cancer at that point of time!

> > > > >

> > > > > According to you Mars entered Taurus on June 25 at 3-54-32

> IST

> > > > which means

> > > > > 22-24-32 of June 24, UT. Mars at that point of time was

Mars

> 0

> > ta

> > > > > 1'44.8001. Thus it would have taken it more than about

> three

> > > hours

> > > > to enter

> > > > > into that sign! And you are supposed to have given even the

> > > ingress

> > > > second

> > > > > correctly!

> > > > >

> > > > > Similarly, you say Jupiter will enter Makar on December 19

> at 1-

> > > 41-

> > > > 29 IST

> > > > > where Jupiter longitude at that time is Jupiter 29 sa

> > > > 59'59.9608. In

> > > > > other words, it is still in Dhanus at that second of IST/UT

> > > > >

> > > > > That much for your accuracy!

> > > > >

> > > > > Your another point is

> > > > >

> > > > > <. I get you reminded your own and that too very latest

> > > > words, " Please

> > > > > rest assured that I have full faith in you regarding our

> > calendar

> > > > > reform...... " Now, for you I have become a person who does

> not

> > > know

> > > > even the

> > > > > basics i.e. starting of bright and dark fortnights of a

> month?

> > > You

> > > > were not

> > > > > like this ever before. Is it forgotten that you have

> referred

> > > the

> > > > submitted

> > > > > panchang to many other members and uploaded the same to

some

> > > other

> > > > groups

> > > > > also? May you be asked, why?>

> > > > >

> > > > > My dear Shri Lokesh ji, I am sure you know that our

> association

> > > has

> > > > been a

> > > > > professional one. You also know that I was a staunch

> believer

> > > in

> > > > nirayana

> > > > > panchangas and nirayana astrology for quite sometime, like

> you

> > > and

> > > > everybody

> > > > > else. With the passage of time, I came to the conclusion

> that

> > > the

> > > > so called

> > > > > nirayana Rashischakra - actually nirayana rashichakras

> galore -

> > > > were not at

> > > > > all feasible for our calendars. This I clarified through

my

> > > various

> > > > > panchangas right from 1996 onwards till 2001. Even several

> > years

> > > > after that,

> > > > > I laboured under the delusion that the Vedas were talking

of

> a

> > > so

> > > > called

> > > > > Sayana Rashichakra! You and Shri Mahtolia and many others

> felt

> > > the

> > > > same

> > > > > thing. All of us had another common purpose also then --

> to

> > > > propagate the

> > > > > " real Vedic Jyotish " since all of us, including myself,

> were

> > > under

> > > > the

> > > > > confusion that the Vedas are talking of nothing but Sayana

> > > Jyotisha

> > > > > including Phalita Jyotisha! We joined our hands and heads

> > > together

> > > > and

> > > > > formed an " All India Calendar Reform Committee " at a much

> later

> > > > stage of

> > > > > which I was asked to be the President.

> > > > >

> > > > > However, after going through the Report of the Calendar

> Reform

> > > > Committee of

> > > > > Dr. M. N. Saha; and Bharatiya Jyotisha Shastra of S B

> Dikshit

> > > and

> > > > the works

> > > > > of several other Indian scholars, who had no axe to grind,

I

> > was

> > > > surprised

> > > > > to find that all of them claimed that there were no Rashis

> in

> > > the

> > > > Vedas,

> > > > > Upanishadas, Brahmans etc. etc. but they were just imports

> from

> > > > Babylon via

> > > > > Greeks! Instead of just taking those statements at their

> face

> > > > value, I

> > > > > studied all the Vedas and other shastras personally and was

> > > > surprised to

> > > > > find that there were actually no rashis in those shastras!

> > This

> > > I

> > > > brought

> > > > > to your and Shri Mahtolia's notice during our first meeting

> at

> > > my

> > > > house at

> > > > > Rohini. I had also made it very clear then that though it

> was a

> > > > > contradiction of my own stand of a few years' back, but I

> could

> > > not

> > > > help it

> > > > > since I could not go on advocating something for which

there

> > > were

> > > > no proofs.

> > > > > At least my conscience would not allow it.

> > > > >

> > > > > In the meantime, you collected " applications " from about

20

> > > people

> > > > who

> > > > > wanted to join the Akhil Bharatiya Panchanga Sudhara

> Samiti.

> > > When

> > > > I went

> > > > > through those " application forms " , I was surprised to see

> that

> > > all

> > > > of them

> > > > > were actually phalit jyotishis and they were under the

> > > impression

> > > > that they

> > > > > would be able to earn more money by practising sayana

phalit

> > > > jyotish in the

> > > > > name of Vedic jyotish, reforming the calendar being a time

> > > pass!

> > > > All of

> > > > > them seemed to be under the delusion that the Vedas were

> full

> > of

> > > > Sayana

> > > > > Rashis and Sayana Phalit jyotish!

> > > > >

> > > > > I just did not want any such confusions that would defeat

> the

> > > very

> > > > purpose

> > > > > of the Samiti that instead of reforming the calendar we

> would

> > > just

> > > > deform it

> > > > > further by trying to link sayana rashis with the Vedic

> calendar

> > > > etc. As

> > > > > such, I sent a seven page letter in Hindi to all of them,

> > > > explaining to them

> > > > > in detail as to how we had been taken for a ride by the

> Greeks

> > > by

> > > > spreading

> > > > > their tentacles of astrology through Mesha etc.

astrological

> > > Rashis

> > > > in

> > > > > India, which was later re-christened as " Vedic jyotish " by

> > > overseas

> > > > > " Vamadevas " . This letter is in the files section

> as " PSS.doc "

> > > even

> > > > today.

> > > > >

> > > > > You were much against my sending any such letter to anybody

> > > since,

> > > > as a hind

> > > > > sight, I feel that you knew that all those members wanted

to

> > > > associate with

> > > > > the " Samiti " only to hone their astrological skills and

> > increase

> > > > their money

> > > > > earning power by dint of " sayana Vedic jyotish " ! Not

> > > surprisingly,

> > > > I did

> > > > > not get any response from anybody, including you and Shri

> Dalip

> > > > Langoo or

> > > > > Shri Sanjay Kumar Mehta etc. etc. The only response I got

> was

> > > from

> > > > Shri

> > > > > Mahtolia and he had summed up his stand in the words that I

> was

> > > > acting more

> > > > > like Macaulay since I was denying Rashis and phalit jyotish

> in

> > > the

> > > > Vedas!

> > > > >

> > > > > That much for worthy Vic-Presidents and General Secretaries

> and

> > > > Treasurers

> > > > > and secretaries of the " Samiti " .

> > > > >

> > > > > Since nobody responded, it means technically the ABPSS

> > comprised

> > > > just a

> > > > > President, a Vice-Presidnet, a General Secretary and

> Secretary,

> > > > though

> > > > > neither the GS nor the Secretary nor the Treasurer

responded

> to

> > > the

> > > > letter!

> > > > > If the would be members could not muster courage to come

> clean

> > > of

> > > > their

> > > > > views in their own forums, how do you expect them to be ale

> to

> > > > convince

> > > > > others about the aims and goals of the Samiti?

> > > > >

> > > > > Then there was another bolt from the blue! Even if somehow

> or

> > > the

> > > > other, by

> > > > > hook or by crook, you just thrust the sayana Rashichakra

> down

> > > the

> > > > throat of

> > > > > unsuspecting public, you just could not link the real

> > nakshatras

> > > > with those

> > > > > (Sayana) Rashis at any cost!

> > > > >

> > > > > I have explained all these points at least a hundred times

> > > through

> > > > various

> > > > > posts and mails on this forum. I had explained the same

> thing

> > > to

> > > > you during

> > > > > our last meeting at my house in Rohini.

> > > > >

> > > > > It appears to me you are deliberately evading the issue

> since

> > it

> > > is

> > > > > impossible that you have not grasped the hopelessness of

> your

> > > stand

> > > > of

> > > > > including sayana Rashis and Sayana nakshatras in your

> panchanga

> > > for

> > > > muhurta

> > > > > and festivals etc. etc. Since you have decided to include

> > sayana

> > > > planetary

> > > > > longitudes also in your panchanga next year, and since you

> are

> > > > presenting

> > > > > yourself as " General Secretary of Panchanga Sudhar Samiti "

> I

> > > just

> > > > do not

> > > > > want to associate myself in such an adharmic activity in

any

> > way

> > > > whatsoever.

> > > > > This I had explained to you in no uncertain terms before

> > > > withdrawing my

> > > > > association.

> > > > >

> > > > > We must not forget that the late N C Lahiri was also the

> > > Secretary

> > > > of the

> > > > > Saha Calendar Reform Committee. As is well known already,

> > > instead

> > > > of going

> > > > > by the real Vedic dictum, he just tried to sway every other

> > > member

> > > > in the

> > > > > favour of a so called Lahiri Rashichakra and he succeeded

in

> > > it.

> > > > In other

> > > > > words, he succeeded in sabotaging the real calendar reform

> and

> > > > keeping his

> > > > > " Lahiri's Indian Ephemeris " and " Vishudha Sidhanta Panjika "

> a

> > > > perpetual

> > > > > breadwinner for himself and his offspring at the cost of

> Vedic

> > > > dharma. It

> > > > > appears that you as a general Secretary of a so

> called " Akhila

> > > > Bharatiya

> > > > > Panchanga Sudhara Samiti " are working on the same lines --

> you

> > > are

> > > > more

> > > > > worried about the sales of your own Tithi Patrak than the

> > actual

> > > > reform of

> > > > > Hindu calendar and muhurtas.

> > > > >

> > > > > All the remaining points raised by you are quite irrelevant

> > > about

> > > > reforming

> > > > > the calendar, since like Lahiri and Lahiriwalas, you are

> > > yourself

> > > > bent on

> > > > > " committing the entire Hindu society to adharma " on the

> > > shoulders

> > > > of " Akhila

> > > > > Bharatiya Panchanga Sudhar Samiti " Honestly, I have no

good

> > > wishes

> > > > for you

> > > > > or your such a mission. On the other hand I will oppose any

> > such

> > > > ahdarmic

> > > > > reforms with equal vehemence as I have been doing for

Lahiri

> > > > Rashichakra and

> > > > > Lahiri festivals. And

> > > > >

> > > > > yatodharmas tato jayah!

> > > > >

> > > > > Dhnayavd.

> > > > >

> > > > > Avtar Krishen Kaul

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > _____

> > > > >

> > > > > HinduCalendar

> > > > [HinduCalendar ]

> > > > > On Behalf Of darshaney lokesh

> > > > > Saturday, June 16, 2007 7:25 AM

> > > > > Avtar Krishen Kaul; Hindu Calander

> > > > > [HinduCalendar] Mohan Krity Arsh Tithi Patrak :

> Please

> > > > come to real

> > > > > issue

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear friends.

> > > > >

> > > > > This is resending of the message

> already

> > > > mailed.

> > > > > Please treat

> > > > >

> > > > > that one as cancelled due to wrong numbering of

paras.Thanks.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Darshaney Lokesh

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Respected kaul Ji,

> > > > >

> > > > > Namastey.

> > > > >

> > > > > Your reference message dt 17 May 07 has given me a

> sad

> > > > picture of

> > > > > your acting as an erudite person of the subject. The letter

> is

> > > > neither

> > > > > ethically nor purposely right. But before entering into the

> > > reply

> > > > with due

> > > > > respect and my humble submissions I'd like to request you (

> as

> > > well

> > > > as to

> > > > > every member of HinduCalendar group) -

> > > > >

> > > > > 1. Plz. Go through the msg No. 1298 and a

> reply

> > > msg

> > > > dt 19 Sep

> > > > > 2007 of Er. Vibhu Vishwamitra Rawat.

> > > > >

> > > > > 2. Plz see msg No. 1315 dt 27/09/2006 wherein

> you

> > > have

> > > > > confirmed the recipt of printed panchanga by post. And for

> your

> > > > information

> > > > > the patrak was published in the month of April 2007 and if

> at

> > > all

> > > > there is

> > > > > such serious negligence on your side then you also can well

> > > imagine

> > > > that how

> > > > > much dangerous was it to trust on your president ship.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 3. Sir, we had submitted the panchanga through internet

and

> > > > printed copies

> > > > > by post to YOU and many of others like Patron, vice

> president

> > and

> > > > > secretaries of the akhil bhartiya panchanga sudhar samiti,

> who

> > > are

> > > > equally

> > > > > learned of the subject.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 4. Your congratulation letter, infact misguided us as we

> > > presumed

> > > > that you

> > > > > have thoroughly gone through the Panchanga as the president

> of

> > > the

> > > > samiti.

> > > > > Naturally you were needed to do so. Moreover when I

> personally

> > > > visited you

> > > > > at rohini you told me " Apki bhabhi ji ko to panchanga bahut

> > > pasand

> > > > aaya

> > > > > hai....... "

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 5. The panchanga was submitted to you in the month of

> > > September

> > > > andnow

> > > > > only on account of my mentions in reply to sh Narayan

Prasad

> > you

> > > > have not

> > > > > only resigned from the president ship of the samiti but

also

> > > > dishonored me

> > > > > on the basis of printing mistakes/ deference of a few

> minutes

> > > for

> > > > which

> > > > > reasons were already explained and on that explanations you

> had

> > > not

> > > > reacted

> > > > > any way.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 6. I have checked some timing as per the Swiss Ephemeris.

> For

> > > > example today

> > > > > 11/06/2007 moon transit is correct. 21 June, sun's transit'

> 05

> > > June

> > > > Venus

> > > > > transit, 25 June mars transit 19 December Jupiter transit,

> 15

> > > > December true

> > > > > Rahu transit are correct. For 15 June 2007 the tithi,

> nakshtra

> > > and

> > > > yoga

> > > > > timings are correct as per even Swiss Ephemeris except in

> case

> > > of

> > > > the Oct

> > > > > 2007 as this page has been published uncorrected. I have

> taken

> > a

> > > > responsible

> > > > > note of these things. A comparison chart is also being

> produced

> > > > hereunder. I

> > > > > would request my readers to expect a well progressed, error

> > free

> > > > (as to the

> > > > > maximum capabilities of my own) and fully acceptable Patra

> next

> > > > year. In

> > > > > This Patra of the next year we are prepared to give the

> timings

> > > of

> > > > > Kshyatithi, nakshtras, lagnasarni for Delhi, daily planatery

> > > > > longitudes/latitudes/speed, ecliptical obliquity and

> nutation

> > > for

> > > > each day

> > > > > at the time of sunrise. These are the needs of a Patra and

> not

> > > of a

> > > > > Jantri.Giving planetary longitudes has an approval of Swami

> > > > Brahmanand ji

> > > > > Saraswati who is himself a Arya Samaji saint and has no

> faith

> > in

> > > > predictive

> > > > > astrology.He says, " Loag to bhagyavadi hain hee aur agar

> apne

> > > > grahspasht

> > > > > nahin diye to unki newantam jaruraton ke liye bhi apka

patra

> > > > bekarka hoga.

> > > > > Isliye grahspasht dene men koee burai nahin hai. "

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Comparison Chart

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Date

> > > > >

> > > > > As Per Mahesh

> > > > >

> > > > > As Per Mohan Krity Arsh Tithi Patrak - 2007

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Th

> > > > >

> > > > > Time

> > > > >

> > > > > Nak

> > > > >

> > > > > Time

> > > > >

> > > > > Yoga

> > > > >

> > > > > Time

> > > > >

> > > > > Th

> > > > >

> > > > > Time

> > > > >

> > > > > Nak

> > > > >

> > > > > Time

> > > > >

> > > > > Yoga

> > > > >

> > > > > Time

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 1/3/2007

> > > > >

> > > > > 13

> > > > >

> > > > > 25:19:56

> > > > >

> > > > > MA

> > > > >

> > > > > 18:32:08

> > > > >

> > > > > DH

> > > > >

> > > > > 5:40:24

> > > > >

> > > > > 13

> > > > >

> > > > > 25:20

> > > > >

> > > > > MA

> > > > >

> > > > > 18:34

> > > > >

> > > > > DH

> > > > >

> > > > > 5:39

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 1/4/2007

> > > > >

> > > > > 14

> > > > >

> > > > > 20:12:21

> > > > >

> > > > > HA

> > > > >

> > > > > 7:44:51

> > > > >

> > > > > HA

> > > > >

> > > > > 12:08:05

> > > > >

> > > > > 14

> > > > >

> > > > > 20:12

> > > > >

> > > > > HA

> > > > >

> > > > > 7:44

> > > > >

> > > > > HA

> > > > >

> > > > > 12:07

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 1/5/2007

> > > > >

> > > > > 14

> > > > >

> > > > > 13:18:55

> > > > >

> > > > > VI

> > > > >

> > > > > 22:56:10

> > > > >

> > > > > PA

> > > > >

> > > > > 21:08:10

> > > > >

> > > > > 14

> > > > >

> > > > > 13:17

> > > > >

> > > > > VI

> > > > >

> > > > > 22:55

> > > > >

> > > > > PA

> > > > >

> > > > > 21:07

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 1/6/2007

> > > > >

> > > > > 15

> > > > >

> > > > > 6:34:34

> > > > >

> > > > > MU

> > > > >

> > > > > 12:40:09

> > > > >

> > > > > SH

> > > > >

> > > > > 5:52:15

> > > > >

> > > > > 15

> > > > >

> > > > > 6:33

> > > > >

> > > > > MU

> > > > >

> > > > > 12:37

> > > > >

> > > > > SH

> > > > >

> > > > > 5:50

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 1/7/2007

> > > > >

> > > > > 16

> > > > >

> > > > > 19:11:41

> > > > >

> > > > > SH

> > > > >

> > > > > 22:48:14

> > > > >

> > > > > PR

> > > > >

> > > > > 12:16:47

> > > > >

> > > > > 16

> > > > >

> > > > > 19:07

> > > > >

> > > > > SH

> > > > >

> > > > > 22:44

> > > > >

> > > > > PR

> > > > >

> > > > > 12:13

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 1/8/2007

> > > > >

> > > > > 18

> > > > >

> > > > > 25:07:47

> > > > >

> > > > > PB

> > > > >

> > > > > 4:55:16

> > > > >

> > > > > DH

> > > > >

> > > > > 12:51:59

> > > > >

> > > > > 18

> > > > >

> > > > > 25:05

> > > > >

> > > > > PB

> > > > >

> > > > > 27:37

> > > > >

> > > > > DH

> > > > >

> > > > > 12:48

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 1/9/2007

> > > > >

> > > > > 20

> > > > >

> > > > > 25:54:17

> > > > >

> > > > > BH

> > > > >

> > > > > 5:37:55

> > > > >

> > > > > HA

> > > > >

> > > > > 8:24:24

> > > > >

> > > > > 20

> > > > >

> > > > > 25:59

> > > > >

> > > > > BH

> > > > >

> > > > > 5:36

> > > > >

> > > > > HA

> > > > >

> > > > > 8:23

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 1/11/2007

> > > > >

> > > > > 22

> > > > >

> > > > > 14:51:24

> > > > >

> > > > > SH

> > > > >

> > > > > 10:19:03

> > > > >

> > > > > AI

> > > > >

> > > > > 24:19:07

> > > > >

> > > > > 22

> > > > >

> > > > > 15:02

> > > > >

> > > > > SH

> > > > >

> > > > > 10:21

> > > > >

> > > > > AI

> > > > >

> > > > > 24:21

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 1/12/2007

> > > > >

> > > > > 22

> > > > >

> > > > > 5:47:59

> > > > >

> > > > > UP

> > > > >

> > > > > 20:17:39

> > > > >

> > > > > SA

> > > > >

> > > > > 28:01:02

> > > > >

> > > > > 22

> > > > >

> > > > > 5:47

> > > > >

> > > > > UP

> > > > >

> > > > > 20:21

> > > > >

> > > > > SA

> > > > >

> > > > > 28:00

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 1/1/2008

> > > > >

> > > > > 24

> > > > >

> > > > > 28:51:25

> > > > >

> > > > > SW

> > > > >

> > > > > 10:52:04

> > > > >

> > > > > SH

> > > > >

> > > > > 10:35:00

> > > > >

> > > > > 24

> > > > >

> > > > > 28:50

> > > > >

> > > > > SW

> > > > >

> > > > > 10:52

> > > > >

> > > > > SH

> > > > >

> > > > > 10:35

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 1/2/2008

> > > > >

> > > > > 25

> > > > >

> > > > > 28:41:36

> > > > >

> > > > > MU

> > > > >

> > > > > 30:26:03

> > > > >

> > > > > VA

> > > > >

> > > > > 19:34:32

> > > > >

> > > > > 25

> > > > >

> > > > > 28:38

> > > > >

> > > > > MU

> > > > >

> > > > > 30:22

> > > > >

> > > > > VA

> > > > >

> > > > > 19:31

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 1/3/2008

> > > > >

> > > > > 24

> > > > >

> > > > > 23:05:37

> > > > >

> > > > > PA

> > > > >

> > > > > 17:26:56

> > > > >

> > > > > PA

> > > > >

> > > > > 27:18:33

> > > > >

> > > > > 24

> > > > >

> > > > > 23:03

> > > > >

> > > > > PA

> > > > >

> > > > > 17:23

> > > > >

> > > > > PA

> > > > >

> > > > > 27:16

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 1/3/2008

> > > > >

> > > > > 24

> > > > >

> > > > > 23:05:37

> > > > >

> > > > > PA

> > > > >

> > > > > 17:26:56

> > > > >

> > > > > PA

> > > > >

> > > > > 27:18:33

> > > > >

> > > > > 24

> > > > >

> > > > > 23:03

> > > > >

> > > > > PA

> > > > >

> > > > > 17:23

> > > > >

> > > > > PA

> > > > >

> > > > > 27:16

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 7. Some of the mistakes found in the patrak have been

> noticed

> > > on

> > > > account of

> > > > > publisher/printing and my own. A correction letter has

> already

> > > been

> > > > issued

> > > > > on 27th of April 2007. The letter is in Hindi (Krutidev 12

> > font)

> > > > and is

> > > > > attached herewith for information in support and covers

> almost

> > > all

> > > > the real

> > > > > mistakes. Even a second correction letter may be issued

> later.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 8. I get you reminded your own and that too very latest

> > > > words, " Please

> > > > > rest assured that I have full faith in you regarding our

> > calendar

> > > > > reform...... " Now, for you I have become a person who does

> not

> > > know

> > > > even the

> > > > > basics i.e. starting of bright and dark fortnights of a

> month?

> > > You

> > > > were not

> > > > > like this ever before. Is it forgotten that you have

> referred

> > > the

> > > > submitted

> > > > > panchang to many other members and uploaded the same to

some

> > > other

> > > > groups

> > > > > also? May you be asked, why?

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 9. " Mohan krity Arsh Tithi patrak samvat 2007 " was my

> first

> > > > attempt of

> > > > > publishing any book and calculating the panchanga details

> under

> > > the

> > > > > guidelines from you and other learned of the samiti. I

would

> > > like

> > > > you to get

> > > > > again reminded that in your Panchanga of 2001 you have

given

> 31

> > > > days to the

> > > > > month of February. In a very important letter to all of the

> > > members

> > > > of the

> > > > > samiti you have mentioned Hemant sampat as a day of equal

> day

> > > and

> > > > neight

> > > > > duration. I am not intended to make fun of you nor I was

> ever

> > > > before. I know

> > > > > that these are just like the slip of pen and have no

> > correlation

> > > > with the

> > > > > knowledge of you, a person of highly profiled and quoted

> > > > credentials.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 10. Sir, many a times I have advised you for not making

> fun

> > of

> > > > others like

> > > > > ALMIGHTY LAHIRI, KALIYUGI VEDIC JYOTISHI, TAPASWANI etc and

> > that

> > > too

> > > > > repeatedly in a monotonous way because it gives reflection

> of

> > > > ethical dwarf

> > > > > ness and to others it becomes a matter of their wider

> > > recognition.

> > > > You are

> > > > > in fact not a sagacious person that's why in a mannered way

> I

> > > had

> > > > requested

> > > > > you to think twice before you speak and thrice before you

> write

> > > any

> > > > thing.

> > > > > The Patrak was got published from Dwarka New Delhi. My main

> > > problem

> > > > remained

> > > > > that I could not pay more than two visits from here i.e.

> > Greater

> > > > Noida. Most

> > > > > of the time I had to explain my things to the publisher

only

> on

> > > > phone.

> > > > > Earlier the names of the Krishan Pakshas were as per the

> > pattern

> > > > adopted by

> > > > > you in your panchangas. Later after vast consideration and

> on

> > the

> > > > > suggessions of Mr BD Mahtolia Only Amant./ Shukladi system

> was

> > > > accepted. The

> > > > > publisher could not do that amendments properly and thus

> left a

> > > > room for

> > > > > almost all the paragraphs of your message I wish if you

> could

> > > have

> > > > used your

> > > > > common sense and at least contacted me on phone!

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 11. If you could believe me during last four years by about

> > > > Rs.93000.00, I

> > > > > have expensed from my own for propagating the calendar

> reform.

> > > No

> > > > member of

> > > > > the samiti has ever contributed even a sum of Rs 100. Not a

> > > single

> > > > copy of

> > > > > the panchanga has been sold so far. Even the distributors

at

> > > Delhi,

> > > > > Moradabad, Meerut, Koatdwar and Dehradun have been supplied

> > free

> > > > copies. I

> > > > > should thank GOD that I am well prepared for the five years

> > > ahead

> > > > for

> > > > > continuing the publication of " Shri Mohan Krity Arsh Tithi

> > > Patra. "

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 12. Accept that of planetary longitudes most of your

> > suggestions

> > > > vide msg

> > > > > NO. 1298 are being observed. As I have already told you

that

> > > many

> > > > members

> > > > > and Swami Brahmananda ji are in favor for daily planetary

> > > > longitudes.So for

> > > > > the timings of Moon, you know better of the reasons behind

> the

> > > > difference.

> > > > > " Seconds " were dropped under your suggestion and we have

not

> > > > rounded off the

> > > > > figures but hide them as such.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 13. Sir, regarding Krishnadi or Amant system of naming

> lunar

> > > > months already

> > > > > we discussed and finally disagreed. You are in favor of

> > > Krishnadi

> > > > system for

> > > > > north India in fact in astrological areas we are not in

> favor

> > of

> > > > keeping the

> > > > > differences like north/south India or Hindi/non Hindi belt

> etc.

> > > > Already we

> > > > > are too much divided and now what is needed is to get

> ourselves

> > > > united. I'd

> > > > > like you to get reminded that once in a discussion you told

> > > > me " Darshaney ji

> > > > > dono hi sidhant vedic hain aur kam se kam itni baat abhi

> rehne

> > > dete

> > > > hain

> > > > > anyatha ye loag kahenge ki ye to hamari zad he katne per

> tule

> > > > hain. " I

> > > > > requested you in reply " Jab hum reformation laa hee rahen

> hain

> > > to

> > > > ise kiston

> > > > > main na laker poori baat ko ek hee bar utha dena kaee

accha

> > > hai. "

> > > > Logically

> > > > > I am strict on counting of Poornimant/Shukladi system

> because

> > > > Shrishtiyadi

> > > > > is itself shukladi and for that I'll be requesting every

> Hindu

> > > to

> > > > be logical

> > > > > and Vedic and hence correct.Not for my personal sake but

for

> > the

> > > > sake of the

> > > > > project, principles and ultimately for the calendar reform

> > which

> > > > the Hindus

> > > > > need today, my request to you is to please continue co-

> > > operation.

> > > > Off

> > > > > course, this is my last request as this reminds me " Payah

> paAnam

> > > > > bhujangaAnam..... . "

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 14. The bone of contention has become the astrology i.e

> > > > predictive mode

> > > > > of astronomy. I want to make it clear that we understand

the

> > > sense

> > > > of your

> > > > > sermons against it. I have myself raised a doubt on the

> > function

> > > of

> > > > > astrology as you may see my letter, years before, addressed

> to

> > > shri

> > > > US Arya

> > > > > of Dehradun. Even yet at this immature stage of today I am

> > > against

> > > > stopping

> > > > > developments, experiences and researches in this field.

> > > > Possibilities of the

> > > > > development should be kept always open. Question does not

> arise

> > > of

> > > > it's

> > > > > being vedic or non vedic. Therefore, till we all reach to

> the

> > > > acceptable

> > > > > conclusion we should keep aside the predictive astronomy.

> Had

> > > this

> > > > not been

> > > > > the issue then certainly sciences like homeopathy,

> acupressure

> > > and

> > > > reki etc

> > > > > would have never come in the recognition. Obviously,

present

> > > > astrology is

> > > > > not a science for its acceptance of so many unscientific

> bases.

> > > You

> > > > can

> > > > > bring out all such bases instead of discarding astrology

> itself.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 15. For me 'Sayana' is not the zero ayanamsha but sayana

is

> > the

> > > > master

> > > > > factor for allocation of earth's situation with relation to

> the

> > > > sun. So, any

> > > > > astro calculation for earth based purpose should

necessarily

> be

> > > > sayana and

> > > > > not non-sayana. Sayan Mesh sankranti i.e. zero degree of

the

> > > zodiac

> > > > is an

> > > > > event which can be measured and visualized even at the

> moment

> > of

> > > its

> > > > > happening and hence it is more acceptable. Since Uttarayan

> is a

> > > > declination

> > > > > based conditional phenomena therefore, 270 degrees there

> from,

> > > it

> > > > is makar

> > > > > sankranti i.e. the start of Uttarayana. As given in our

> > > reference

> > > > Patrak ,

> > > > > Mesh sankranti occurred on 21/03/07 at 05/35/18 Hrs IST and

> > > Makar

> > > > Sankranti

> > > > > will be occurring at 11/37/06 Hrs IST of 22/12/07. These

are

> > > > topocentric

> > > > > ingresses timings for Deli Lats/Longs and are also

confirmed

> > > from

> > > > Swiss

> > > > > Ephemeris.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 16. Sir, acceptance of Rashis is a truth for calculation

> > > purposes

> > > > even if

> > > > > these being imaginary like Longitudes which have no mark

> > > anywhere.

> > > > After all

> > > > > we are identifying certain place in sky or say ZODIAC with

> the

> > > help

> > > > of these

> > > > > rashis. These are measured from zero point of zodiac and

> there

> > > is

> > > > no harm in

> > > > > accepting zero degree aries as zero degree ashwini because

> > > > imaginary signs

> > > > > must have their imaginary nakshtras. Days

> > (Sunday,maonday.....),

> > > > Rashis and

> > > > > such nakshtras of astrological zodiac all are quite framed

> and

> > > > accepted at

> > > > > different stages of kaAlkram (samey chakra). These are not

> > vedic

> > > but

> > > > > definitely traced or fixed or adopted by vedic persons and

> use

> > > of

> > > > these

> > > > > things have benefited the mankind which is the sole purpose

> of

> > > any

> > > > > knowledge. Anyhow let's be guided by our own age and

> > > experiences.

> > > > So keep

> > > > > predictive astrology forgotten and do keep continue for

> > calendar

> > > > reform if

> > > > > at all you really desire so.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 17. Sir, calling the Akhil Bhartiya Panchanga Sudhar Samiti

> a

> > > > DEFUNCT is

> > > > > really laughable. It was functional because you were

> president

> > > and

> > > > now it is

> > > > > defunct because you are not at that! Is it so? Better we

> free

> > > > ourselves from

> > > > > such proud and come out to stand on realities.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 18. And at last - if I Informed the members that samvat

> 2065

> > > > starts from

> > > > > Saturday 08th March 2008, in which sense it was unpleasant

> to

> > > you.

> > > > Is it

> > > > > wrong?

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Aum Sham.

> > > > >

> > > > > With regards

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Darshaney Lokesh

> > > > >

> > > > > Genl.Secretary

> > > > >

> > > > > A.B.Panchanga Sudhar samiti

> > > > >

> > > > > Greater Noida(UP) -201308

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > .

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > <http://geo./serv?

> > > > s=97359714/grpId=13815029/grpspId=1705075991/msgI

> > > > > d=2067/stime=1181958957/nc1=3848544/nc2=4507179/nc3=3848568>

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>