Who is really Vedic! (or Vedic Calenderian!!)

[Guest guest]

Dear Lori Tompkins ji and Kaul ji,

Please leave the Hindu Calender group conflicts there itself.

==>

> existence of Makar Sankranti in the Vedas or Upanishads or

> Brahmanas etc.

<==

I too would like to have such a reference it at all such a thing is

mentioned there. As of my limited knowledge, I think (based on

evidence) that even though both Sayana and Nirayana zodiacs were

known to Vedic sages - there does not exist any such reference to

Makar Sankranti' in Vedic literature. But there is every possibility

that a better learned may prove me wrong.

==>

> Please do let me know the Vedic mantras which refer to Mesha,

> Vrisha etc. rashis --- whether sayana or nirayana is immaterial for

> the time being since we can thrash that out only after they have

> been " pinpointed " ---since maybe I have missed those " Vedic "

> Rashis....

<==

As far as my feeble knowledge goes, it is in Yanjchavalkya smriti

that we find the first reference of Signs. But I repeat, how can the

available set of bits and pieces of Vedas (Vedic literature)

available can become a proper place to search - astrological

knowledge? Vedas are thought to be prayers and praise of the divine -

right?

 

* But if the fight is fundamentally against the " movement for

restoration " effort - i stand back, that is not my domain. Vedas or

No vedas I have no probs - because i know that as long as

consciousness exists vedas would be there inside; as long as the

enlightened beings are possible the true knowledge can not be lost.

As far as the peripheral info such as Calendars etc are concerned -

You are all more bothered. The knowledge whether it be Vedic or

Non-vedic; whether it be ancient or modern - I have no quarrels.

 

* But I have one fundamental doubt – One set of people trying to

revise (restore?) Vedic knowledge (Arya Samaj) and other set of

people is in a " movement " to restore Vedas (by mixing even western

ideas!) – but since the common thread of " restoration " is there why

the quarrel? [Here I am not pointing to Kaul ji or Lori Tompkins ji]

I wonder how many such fights and efforts the long history of Vedas

must have witnessed! Still they are there, a cumbersome set of

slokas – some decipherable and some not – many whole generations

trying to save it – using various kinds of memorization techniques –

but still making others wonder – why and how these are more valid

than Geetha, Dharmapada, Bible or the teachings of other enlightened

ones. I think if those texts (?) survived to be in existence up to

now (it is amazing!) they will for many more generations to come –

and many feeble minds like us may either fight or try decorating

flowers on them for long. But still I think it is immaterial –

true knowledge does not need these supports, or the attacks

irrelevant, and so I hope with all these differences we can be

friends.

Love,

Sreenadh

 

, " Avtar Krishen Kaul "

<jyotirved wrote:

>

> Shri Lori Tompkinsji,

> Namaksar!

> You left HinduCalendar forum on your own! There had been a lively

> disucssion with Sushri Patriziaji after that also. And she also

> quit that forum without being able to prove the existence of

> her " world famous " Makar Sankranti in the Vedas or Upanishadas or

> Brahmanas etc.

>

> That thread was pursued by Shri Wilkinson on some other forums

> espeically waves-Vedic, after having left HinduCalnedar forum.

> I have forwrded some of those mails to this forum and would request

> you to go through them.

>

> Please do let me know the Vedic mantras which refer to Mesha,

Vrisha

> etc. rashis --- whether sayana or nirayana is immaterial for the

> time being since we can thrash that out only after they have

> been " pinpointed " ---since maybe I have missed those " Vedic " Rashis

> but you and other members of the " Movement " have come across them!

> Dhanyavad.

> AKK

>

> , " Lori Tompkins "

> <lotus@> wrote:

> >

> > I have not had adequate time to get familiar with this group,

> which I

> > was just invited into last week. It will take me some time to

> > understand what the gist of the group is, what the goals are and

> such.

> >

> > ... I've participated in Avtar Krishen Kaul's Hindu

Calendar

> > forum (which I dropped out of), as well as the 'Movement for

> > Restoration of Vedic Wisdom' forum convened by Patrizia

> > Norelli-Bachelet(which I'm still in).

> >

> > So I came in just in time to see Avtar Krishen Kaul's files

> recently

> > downloaded to this group.

> >

> > The Rashi5 file opens to the title, 'The hoax called Vedic

> Rashichakra

> > and Vedic astrology!' (another of the downloaded

> files 'Patriziaji' is

> > some exchange between Krishen Kaul and Patrizia Norelli-Bachelet.

> >

> > I will spare this group more downloads, but for anyone interested

> in

> > Ms. Norelli Bachelet's refutation of 'The hoax called Vedic

> > Rashichakra and Vedic astrology', you may find it and other

> responses

> > to Avtar Krishen Kaul on the MRVW forum. Here are the links to two

> > responses to the Rashi5 document:

> >

> >

>

movementforrestorationofvedicwisdom/mes

> sage/26

> >

> >

>

movementforrestorationofvedicwisdom/mes

> sage/27

> >

> > I will put more energy into understanding the flow of this group

> ASAP,

> > is there any essential post regarding your collective

understanding

> > about the Sayana/Niryana [Tropical/Sidereal] differences and what

> > system is preferable in terms of understanding the Year ... and

> > understanding the Vedic Sacrifice?

> >

> > Lori Tompkins

> > lotus@

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Shri Sreenadh ji,

Namaskar!

Just a small correction!

I am no Aryasamaji! No an inconoclast either! On the other hand, I

believe in Murit-Puja and all the puranas as much as anybody else --

though I know that there have been " adulterations " in quite a few

of them, like the Vishnu Dharmotarapurana, the Narada Purana etc.

etc. However, I do not find any Purana either advising us to

consult our Janma Patrika before embarking on any activity! (Pl see

BVB6 and Rotary documents)

 

If someone wants proofs for the statements which others are making,

it does not mean that he/she is an Aryasamaji! The tragic fact is

that the Hindus on the whole remained ignorant by choice about real

astronomical developments only because we believed the Surya

Sidhanta to be a divine work when it was actually a work by Maya the

mlechha who took us for a ride by proclaiming that he had gained

that (fictitious!) knowledge by " Tapasya (Sic!) " from Surya

Bhagwan. As such, we have to be careful about the statements of

people who claim to have prescience, clairvoyance, tapasya etc.

etc. since these days anybody can claim to be proficient in

any " science " or " art " . For example, a " Vedic astrologer " these

days does not need to know even the names of the Vedas properly!

All he/she needs is to have gone throuhg some books by other " Vedic

astrologers " and passed some examination of " Vedic Astrology " from

some " Council " or " Bhawan " etc. etc.

 

As far as the dicussion about Sushri Patrizia is concerned, that

file you had already uploaded from Hionducalendar forum under the

name " Patriziaji " . Since Shri Tompkins had raised the topic after

having joining this forum, it was but natural for me to ask him to

vindicate his stand as he claimes to be a member of the

particular " Movement " for " restoraation of Vedas " . The million

dollar qeustion is: How many of such " reformers " have gone through

the Vedas? Can they even read a single Vedic mantra properly since

they do not know Sanskrit at all? Or is it that we consider the

Vedas to be so frail and fragile that any Tom, Dick and Harry can

interpet their meanings to us anyway he/she wants to even if he/she

cannot recite the Gayatri mantra properly!

It is no reflection on anybody but a statement of facts!

Regards,

AKK

 

 

, " Sreenadh "

<sreesog wrote:

>

> Dear Lori Tompkins ji and Kaul ji,

> Please leave the Hindu Calender group conflicts there itself.

> ==>

> > existence of Makar Sankranti in the Vedas or Upanishads or

> > Brahmanas etc.

> <==

> I too would like to have such a reference it at all such a thing

is

> mentioned there. As of my limited knowledge, I think (based on

> evidence) that even though both Sayana and Nirayana zodiacs were

> known to Vedic sages - there does not exist any such reference to

> Makar Sankranti' in Vedic literature. But there is every

possibility

> that a better learned may prove me wrong.

> ==>

> > Please do let me know the Vedic mantras which refer to Mesha,

> > Vrisha etc. rashis --- whether sayana or nirayana is immaterial

for

> > the time being since we can thrash that out only after they have

> > been " pinpointed " ---since maybe I have missed those " Vedic "

> > Rashis....

> <==

> As far as my feeble knowledge goes, it is in Yanjchavalkya smriti

> that we find the first reference of Signs. But I repeat, how can

the

> available set of bits and pieces of Vedas (Vedic literature)

> available can become a proper place to search - astrological

> knowledge? Vedas are thought to be prayers and praise of the

divine -

> right?

>

> * But if the fight is fundamentally against the " movement for

> restoration " effort - i stand back, that is not my domain. Vedas

or

> No vedas I have no probs - because i know that as long as

> consciousness exists vedas would be there inside; as long as the

> enlightened beings are possible the true knowledge can not be

lost.

> As far as the peripheral info such as Calendars etc are concerned -

 

> You are all more bothered. The knowledge whether it be Vedic or

> Non-vedic; whether it be ancient or modern - I have no quarrels.

>

> * But I have one fundamental doubt ? One set of people trying to

> revise (restore?) Vedic knowledge (Arya Samaj) and other set of

> people is in a " movement " to restore Vedas (by mixing even western

> ideas!) ? but since the common thread of " restoration " is there

why

> the quarrel? [Here I am not pointing to Kaul ji or Lori Tompkins

ji]

> I wonder how many such fights and efforts the long history of

Vedas

> must have witnessed! Still they are there, a cumbersome set of

> slokas ? some decipherable and some not ? many whole generations

> trying to save it ? using various kinds of memorization

techniques ?

> but still making others wonder ? why and how these are more valid

> than Geetha, Dharmapada, Bible or the teachings of other

enlightened

> ones. I think if those texts (?) survived to be in existence up

to

> now (it is amazing!) they will for many more generations to come ?

> and many feeble minds like us may either fight or try decorating

> flowers on them for long. But still I think it is immaterial ?

> true knowledge does not need these supports, or the attacks

> irrelevant, and so I hope with all these differences we can be

> friends.

> Love,

> Sreenadh

>

> , " Avtar Krishen

Kaul "

> <jyotirved@> wrote:

> >

> > Shri Lori Tompkinsji,

> > Namaksar!

> > You left HinduCalendar forum on your own! There had been a

lively

> > disucssion with Sushri Patriziaji after that also. And she

also

> > quit that forum without being able to prove the existence of

> > her " world famous " Makar Sankranti in the Vedas or Upanishadas

or

> > Brahmanas etc.

> >

> > That thread was pursued by Shri Wilkinson on some other forums

> > espeically waves-Vedic, after having left HinduCalnedar forum.

> > I have forwrded some of those mails to this forum and would

request

> > you to go through them.

> >

> > Please do let me know the Vedic mantras which refer to Mesha,

> Vrisha

> > etc. rashis --- whether sayana or nirayana is immaterial for the

> > time being since we can thrash that out only after they have

> > been " pinpointed " ---since maybe I have missed those " Vedic "

Rashis

> > but you and other members of the " Movement " have come across

them!

> > Dhanyavad.

> > AKK

> >

> > , " Lori Tompkins "

> > <lotus@> wrote:

> > >

> > > I have not had adequate time to get familiar with this group,

> > which I

> > > was just invited into last week. It will take me some time to

> > > understand what the gist of the group is, what the goals are

and

> > such.

> > >

> > > ... I've participated in Avtar Krishen Kaul's Hindu

> Calendar

> > > forum (which I dropped out of), as well as the 'Movement for

> > > Restoration of Vedic Wisdom' forum convened by Patrizia

> > > Norelli-Bachelet(which I'm still in).

> > >

> > > So I came in just in time to see Avtar Krishen Kaul's files

> > recently

> > > downloaded to this group.

> > >

> > > The Rashi5 file opens to the title, 'The hoax called Vedic

> > Rashichakra

> > > and Vedic astrology!' (another of the downloaded

> > files 'Patriziaji' is

> > > some exchange between Krishen Kaul and Patrizia Norelli-

Bachelet.

> > >

> > > I will spare this group more downloads, but for anyone

interested

> > in

> > > Ms. Norelli Bachelet's refutation of 'The hoax called Vedic

> > > Rashichakra and Vedic astrology', you may find it and other

> > responses

> > > to Avtar Krishen Kaul on the MRVW forum. Here are the links to

two

> > > responses to the Rashi5 document:

> > >

> > >

> >

>

movementforrestorationofvedicwisdom/mes

> > sage/26

> > >

> > >

> >

>

movementforrestorationofvedicwisdom/mes

> > sage/27

> > >

> > > I will put more energy into understanding the flow of this

group

> > ASAP,

> > > is there any essential post regarding your collective

> understanding

> > > about the Sayana/Niryana [Tropical/Sidereal] differences and

what

> > > system is preferable in terms of understanding the Year ... and

> > > understanding the Vedic Sacrifice?

> > >

> > > Lori Tompkins

> > > lotus@

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Kaul ji,

Sorry for mis-interpretting) that you were associated with Arya

samaj in the past - may be I was wrong.

==>

Or is it that we consider the

> Vedas to be so frail and fragile that any Tom, Dick and Harry can

> interpet their meanings to us anyway he/she wants to even if he/she

> cannot recite the Gayatri mantra properly!

<==

Kaul ji!! Please be careful about your language! Mild please! Avoid

Insulting others!

==>

> It is no reflection on anybody but a statement of facts!

<==

It is and seems to! It is not good.

 

==>

> Can they even read a single Vedic mantra properly since

> they do not know Sanskrit at all?

<==

Do you think that to appreciate a good Idea (or many of them)

learning a new langauge is a pre-requisite?! Will to state that to

appreciate bible - learnic Aramic or Latin is a must?!! I don't

appreciate that much fundamentalism!

 

Love,

Sreenadh

 

, " Avtar Krishen Kaul "

<jyotirved wrote:

>

> Shri Sreenadh ji,

> Namaskar!

> Just a small correction!

> I am no Aryasamaji! No an inconoclast either! On the other hand,

I

> believe in Murit-Puja and all the puranas as much as anybody else -

-

> though I know that there have been " adulterations " in quite a few

> of them, like the Vishnu Dharmotarapurana, the Narada Purana etc.

> etc. However, I do not find any Purana either advising us to

> consult our Janma Patrika before embarking on any activity! (Pl see

> BVB6 and Rotary documents)

>

> If someone wants proofs for the statements which others are making,

> it does not mean that he/she is an Aryasamaji! The tragic fact is

> that the Hindus on the whole remained ignorant by choice about real

> astronomical developments only because we believed the Surya

> Sidhanta to be a divine work when it was actually a work by Maya

the

> mlechha who took us for a ride by proclaiming that he had gained

> that (fictitious!) knowledge by " Tapasya (Sic!) " from Surya

> Bhagwan. As such, we have to be careful about the statements of

> people who claim to have prescience, clairvoyance, tapasya etc.

> etc. since these days anybody can claim to be proficient in

> any " science " or " art " . For example, a " Vedic astrologer " these

> days does not need to know even the names of the Vedas properly!

> All he/she needs is to have gone throuhg some books by other " Vedic

> astrologers " and passed some examination of " Vedic Astrology " from

> some " Council " or " Bhawan " etc. etc.

>

> As far as the dicussion about Sushri Patrizia is concerned, that

> file you had already uploaded from Hionducalendar forum under the

> name " Patriziaji " . Since Shri Tompkins had raised the topic after

> having joining this forum, it was but natural for me to ask him to

> vindicate his stand as he claimes to be a member of the

> particular " Movement " for " restoraation of Vedas " . The million

> dollar qeustion is: How many of such " reformers " have gone through

> the Vedas? Can they even read a single Vedic mantra properly since

> they do not know Sanskrit at all? Or is it that we consider the

> Vedas to be so frail and fragile that any Tom, Dick and Harry can

> interpet their meanings to us anyway he/she wants to even if he/she

> cannot recite the Gayatri mantra properly!

> It is no reflection on anybody but a statement of facts!

> Regards,

> AKK

>

>

> , " Sreenadh "

> <sreesog@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Lori Tompkins ji and Kaul ji,

> > Please leave the Hindu Calender group conflicts there itself.

> > ==>

> > > existence of Makar Sankranti in the Vedas or Upanishads or

> > > Brahmanas etc.

> > <==

> > I too would like to have such a reference it at all such a thing

> is

> > mentioned there. As of my limited knowledge, I think (based on

> > evidence) that even though both Sayana and Nirayana zodiacs were

> > known to Vedic sages - there does not exist any such reference to

> > Makar Sankranti' in Vedic literature. But there is every

> possibility

> > that a better learned may prove me wrong.

> > ==>

> > > Please do let me know the Vedic mantras which refer to Mesha,

> > > Vrisha etc. rashis --- whether sayana or nirayana is immaterial

> for

> > > the time being since we can thrash that out only after they

have

> > > been " pinpointed " ---since maybe I have missed those " Vedic "

> > > Rashis....

> > <==

> > As far as my feeble knowledge goes, it is in Yanjchavalkya

smriti

> > that we find the first reference of Signs. But I repeat, how can

> the

> > available set of bits and pieces of Vedas (Vedic literature)

> > available can become a proper place to search - astrological

> > knowledge? Vedas are thought to be prayers and praise of the

> divine -

> > right?

> >

> > * But if the fight is fundamentally against the " movement for

> > restoration " effort - i stand back, that is not my domain. Vedas

> or

> > No vedas I have no probs - because i know that as long as

> > consciousness exists vedas would be there inside; as long as the

> > enlightened beings are possible the true knowledge can not be

> lost.

> > As far as the peripheral info such as Calendars etc are

concerned -

>

> > You are all more bothered. The knowledge whether it be Vedic

or

> > Non-vedic; whether it be ancient or modern - I have no

quarrels.

> >

> > * But I have one fundamental doubt ? One set of people trying to

> > revise (restore?) Vedic knowledge (Arya Samaj) and other set of

> > people is in a " movement " to restore Vedas (by mixing even

western

> > ideas!) ? but since the common thread of " restoration " is there

> why

> > the quarrel? [Here I am not pointing to Kaul ji or Lori Tompkins

> ji]

> > I wonder how many such fights and efforts the long history of

> Vedas

> > must have witnessed! Still they are there, a cumbersome set of

> > slokas ? some decipherable and some not ? many whole generations

> > trying to save it ? using various kinds of memorization

> techniques ?

> > but still making others wonder ? why and how these are more valid

> > than Geetha, Dharmapada, Bible or the teachings of other

> enlightened

> > ones. I think if those texts (?) survived to be in existence up

> to

> > now (it is amazing!) they will for many more generations to

come ?

> > and many feeble minds like us may either fight or try decorating

> > flowers on them for long. But still I think it is immaterial ?

> > true knowledge does not need these supports, or the attacks

> > irrelevant, and so I hope with all these differences we can be

> > friends.

> > Love,

> > Sreenadh

> >

> > , " Avtar Krishen

> Kaul "

> > <jyotirved@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Shri Lori Tompkinsji,

> > > Namaksar!

> > > You left HinduCalendar forum on your own! There had been a

> lively

> > > disucssion with Sushri Patriziaji after that also. And she

> also

> > > quit that forum without being able to prove the existence of

> > > her " world famous " Makar Sankranti in the Vedas or Upanishadas

> or

> > > Brahmanas etc.

> > >

> > > That thread was pursued by Shri Wilkinson on some other forums

> > > espeically waves-Vedic, after having left HinduCalnedar forum.

> > > I have forwrded some of those mails to this forum and would

> request

> > > you to go through them.

> > >

> > > Please do let me know the Vedic mantras which refer to Mesha,

> > Vrisha

> > > etc. rashis --- whether sayana or nirayana is immaterial for

the

> > > time being since we can thrash that out only after they have

> > > been " pinpointed " ---since maybe I have missed those " Vedic "

> Rashis

> > > but you and other members of the " Movement " have come across

> them!

> > > Dhanyavad.

> > > AKK

> > >

> > > , " Lori

Tompkins "

> > > <lotus@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > I have not had adequate time to get familiar with this group,

> > > which I

> > > > was just invited into last week. It will take me some time to

> > > > understand what the gist of the group is, what the goals are

> and

> > > such.

> > > >

> > > > ... I've participated in Avtar Krishen Kaul's Hindu

> > Calendar

> > > > forum (which I dropped out of), as well as the 'Movement for

> > > > Restoration of Vedic Wisdom' forum convened by Patrizia

> > > > Norelli-Bachelet(which I'm still in).

> > > >

> > > > So I came in just in time to see Avtar Krishen Kaul's files

> > > recently

> > > > downloaded to this group.

> > > >

> > > > The Rashi5 file opens to the title, 'The hoax called Vedic

> > > Rashichakra

> > > > and Vedic astrology!' (another of the downloaded

> > > files 'Patriziaji' is

> > > > some exchange between Krishen Kaul and Patrizia Norelli-

> Bachelet.

> > > >

> > > > I will spare this group more downloads, but for anyone

> interested

> > > in

> > > > Ms. Norelli Bachelet's refutation of 'The hoax called Vedic

> > > > Rashichakra and Vedic astrology', you may find it and other

> > > responses

> > > > to Avtar Krishen Kaul on the MRVW forum. Here are the links

to

> two

> > > > responses to the Rashi5 document:

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

movementforrestorationofvedicwisdom/mes

> > > sage/26

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

movementforrestorationofvedicwisdom/mes

> > > sage/27

> > > >

> > > > I will put more energy into understanding the flow of this

> group

> > > ASAP,

> > > > is there any essential post regarding your collective

> > understanding

> > > > about the Sayana/Niryana [Tropical/Sidereal] differences and

> what

> > > > system is preferable in terms of understanding the Year ...

and

> > > > understanding the Vedic Sacrifice?

> > > >

> > > > Lori Tompkins

> > > > lotus@

> > > >

> > >

> >

>