The Veda, India, and the Sacred Map Symbol -

[Guest guest]

Dr. Anand M. Sharan ji,

Namaskar!

I have been very late in replying your post of May 28. In any case, better

late than never.

You have said

< The Chaitra month of Govt of India will not drift towards the summer

because it is now tied to the Xtian ( Gregorian ) calendar. The

artificial Aries ( Mesha ) starts after the equinox. This is about

the first point ( dealing with the Calendar ). Thus we are also calling

artificial Mesha and starting our Hindu Calendar.>

 

I was also under a similar impression that our calendar has been fixed once

for all with the seasons by the GOI. Actually, the Rashtriya Panchanga (RP)

is playing a cruel joke with unsuspecting Hindus on the whole because:

1. As per the Vedas and the Vedanga Jyotisha etc. etc. --- or even as per

the Vishnu Purana etc.---March 21 should be actually the start of the month

of Vaishkha since that is the day of Vernal Equinox! It means that the real

Vedic Chaitra starts these days also around February 21 every year whereas

the GOI is saying that it starts from March 21!

 

2 If you peruse the Rashtriya Panchanga for any year, you will find the

following words for March 21 " Vedic month Madhava (Mesha) -- second month

of Vasanta Ritu " . Madhava is actually another name of Vaishakha and though

there are no Rashis in the Vedas, Mesha also is an equivalent of

Vaishakha/Meshadi! Same is the case with every other month! As such, the RP

is contradicting itself at every step.

 

2. Thus it is just an artificial Chaitra that has been tied to March 21

since the Solar Chaitra, as per the same RP, starts around March 13 every

year! That is the period when Lahiri Solar Chaitra also starts! As such,

we have three solar Chaitras as per the same RP with two Chaitras starting

prior to the artificial Chaitra of March 21. All the religious activities,

whether the fairs and fasts and festivals or Muhurtas etc. are decided not

as per even the artificial i.e. March 21 Chaitra either but as per the

Lahiri Chaitra! For instance, Kharmas, supposed to be month of Chaitra,

which is prohibited for solemnizing marriages etc., does not range from

March 21 to April 20 but from March 14 to April 14, when actually it should

range from February 21 to March 21 --- i.e. during the solar transit of the

so called Vedic Mina Rashi as per the same RP.

 

At the rate of one day every seventy-two years, in about five centuries from

today, Lahiri Chaitra and the artificial Chaitra will coincide on March 21

and after that Lahiri Chaitra will go on advancing further by one day every

seventy two years. Thus a time will come when Lahiri Chaitra will coincide

with artificial Ashada i.e. Summer Solstice! In the meantime, Rashtriya

Panchanga will continue to " fix " the artificial Chaitra with March 21. Thus

at that point of time there will be three Chaitras---one on March 21 another

on around June 17 and then another one around June 21. Kharmas will then

range from June 21 to July 21! Chaitri Navratras, also known as Vasanti

Navratras, will then start only after the Summer Solstice!

 

We must keep in mind that the real Vedic Chaitra will continue to start from

February 21 then also and that will be the first month of Vasanta Ritu and

the month of Vedic Madhu as per the same Rashtriya Panchanga! That should

also be actually the Kharmas prohibited for marriages etc.

 

Similar will be the fate of all the other months! E.g. RP Vaiishkha will

continue to start on April 20 whereas we will be asked to celebrate

Meshadi/Vaishakhi on July 21 then, though in the meantime, real Vedic

Vaishakha (Madhava) will continue to remain from March 21 to April 21. That

will also be the second month of Vasanta Riotu!

 

Rashtriya Panchanga have made actually a double whammy -- (i) they are

giving wrong names to Vedic months (ii) they are making us celebrate all our

festivals and muhurtas etc. etc. as per Lahiri months and calendar and in

the meantime, (iii) trying to say that they have fixed a so called Chaitra

permanently to March 21 and so on. In other words, they are really

committing the entire Hindu society to adharma deliberately since it is

impossible that an organization like India Meteorological Deptt or

Positional Astronomy Centre do not realize as to what cruel jokes they are

playing with the entire Hindu community as " Calendar makers to the nation " .

 

RP is doing all this because of the pressure of " Vedic Jyotishis " --

especially Lahiriwalas, who are dead against any reforms in the calendar for

reasons not difficult to discern!

 

I do not think we as intelligent Hindus should take all such insults to our

intelligence and common sense, besides our dharmashastras, by the RP lying

down!

With regards,

A K Kaul

 

hinducivilization , " amsharanx "

<amsharanx@> wrote:

 

hinducivilization , " jyotirved " <jyotirved@>

wrote:

>

>

> Dr. Anand M. Sharan ji,

> Namaskar!

> < I do not believe he realized that the present Hindu Months

> are seasonal - for example Chaitra Month will always be warm. This

> is because it is now linked to the Xtian Calendar which is season

> based.>

>

> Solar (Lahiri) Chaitra month starts these days around March 14

every

year.

> In 285 AD, it started with the month of Madhu i.e. around February

19 of the

> then non-existent Gregorian calendar! Thus approximately every

seventy-two

> years Lahiri Chaitra will go on separating by one day further. It

means in

> about 720 years from today, it will start on March 24 and then in

about

> another 720 years it will start on April 4. That way a time may

come when

> Lahiri Chaitra will fall on June 21 -- the Summer Solstice Day!

>

> A lunar month cannot start earlier than the solar month of a

similar

name.

> Obviously, lunar Chaitra will start only after solar Chaitra!

>

What you are talking about Lahiri / Shakuntala Devi ZERO Aynamsha

Year

drift towards the Summer ( June etc ) is nothing new. This was the

reason for the Gregorian Calendar.

 

The Chaitra month of Govt of India will not drift towards the summer

because it is now tied to the Xtian ( Gregorian ) calendar. The

artificial Aries ( Mesha ) starts after the equinox. This is about

the

first point ( dealing with the Calendar ). Thus we are also calling

artificial Mesha and starting our Hindu Calendar.

 

I think Lahiri was aiming for 325 AD ( Julian Calendar date ) and

ended up with 285 AD. I do not see why he would choose 285 AD when

there was nothing special in the sky.

 

After reading Shakuntala Devi's book on Astrology, she applies the

Aynamsha correction to the Rashi cusps as well as to the planetary

positions. It looks to me is that she is trying to define zero

position of Aries. But, according to the Roman - Greek observation of

zodiac sign, the transition of the equinox from Aries to Pisces took

place in 57 BC. This was the reason of introduction of Vikram Samvat

which , even being Jyotshis - they did not recognize this fact.

 

In Delhi or Jaipur in Jantar Mantar - Maharaja Sawai Jai Singh has

Rashi measuring Yantras for horoscopes -( 6 + 6 ) Rashis. Being in

Delhi, perhaps you can have a look at them. He was a man who went for

precision. I would imagine that his concepts were more accurate than

these Jyotshis who are using 285 AD as a reference point in time.

 

In summary - the present day used Chaitra Month WILL NOT DRIFT due to

our linking with Xtian Calendar which is Equinox based - which is

your

concept of starting a new year - whether it is equinox or Winter

solstice - it does not matter. The main thing is the drifting of

months.

 

 

Thanks.

 

Anand M. Sharan

 

--- End forwarded message ---

 

--- End forwarded message ---

[Guest guest]

Dr.  Anand M. Sharanji,

Namaskar!

Please bear with me for a few minutes if you find

the answer to your mail a bit long!  The confusion regarding precession

vis-à-vis Hindu calendar has to be clarified once for all!

 

The real Vedic calendar is season based.  That

should also be the actual Hindu calendar.  Seasons have nothing to do with

precession and precession has nothing to do with seasons!  For example, the

shortest day of the year will always, whether in 10000 BC or 10000 AD, be

called Winter Solstice or Uttarayana.  The longest day always---whether in

10000 BC or 10000 AD----- as Summer Solstice or Dakshinayana.  Similarly, the

two Sampat i.e. Vasant Sampat and Hemant Sampat will also always fall on the

day when day and night are equal i.e. the two equinoctial days.  The start of

Uttarayana was known as Tapas month, Dakshinayana as Nabhas month, Vasant

Sampat as Madhav and Hemant Sampat as Urja as per the Vedas and the Vedanga

Jyotisha and even most of the Puranas like Vishnu Purana etc.  In between, there

were other eight months also known by their Vedic names.  These very solar

months were also known as the lunar months of either those very or different names

after the first New Moon of that month.  For example, the Vedanga Jyotisha says

that the month of Tapas and Magha start simultaneously with the first New Moon

on or after Uttarayana. Here Tapas can be said to be the solar month and Magha

the lunar month, but in several other cases, we find Madhu being the name for

solar as well lunar months and so on. These Madhu, Madhav etc. months, whether

solar or lunar, have thus absolutely nothing to do with precession.  As an

example, even at the cost of repetition, whether it was 10000 BCE or whether it

will be 10000 AD, the shortest day of the year will always be known as

Uttarayana (Winter Solstice) and the start of Tapah and Magha month as per the

Vedas and the Vedanga Jyotisha etc.

Later Puranas also follow the same trend.

 

Mercifully, Rashtriya Panchanga also gives the same

nomenclature, though partially, for these phenomena even today i.e. Winter

Solstice as Utarayana and Tapas etc.  TBut it is violating its own principles

in case of these very Vedic months i.e. if it says that the Vedic month of

Madhav starts with the Vernal Equinox, it has absolutely no right to say that

it is also the start of solar Chaitra when it is actually the start of solar

Vaishakha, the second month of Vasanta Ritu.!

 

This confusion arose only when Uttarayana started

being known as Makar Sankranti, Dakshinayana as Karka Sankranti and so on. 

This very confusion was created by the Surya Sidhanta. Though when the SS says,

“banor Makar Sankranteh shan masa Uttarayanam, karkyadestathaiv syat

hanmasa dakshinayanam”,  meaning that Uttarayana starts always with the

ingress of the sun into Makara and Dakshinayana with the ingress of the sun into

Karkata, it is clear that it wants to follow a seasonal i.e. tropical year since

Makar Sankranti and Uttarayana can be clubbed together only when a tropical

year is followed and the Rashi names used accordingly.

 However, the duration of the year of the SS is

neither tropical nor sidereal, but more than that of a sidereal year by about 8

palas every year.  Varahaamihira made the confusion worst confounded, when, on

the one hand, he advocated that if the calculated Uttarayana etc. did not tally

with the observed positions, calculations should be corrected accordingly  --

i.e Beeja corrections should be made and calculated Makar Sankranti made to

coincide with the observed  Uttarayana---but in the same breath he predicted

dire consequences if the calculated Uttarayana-cum-Makar Sankranti took place

earlier or later than the observed positions!

A myth was thus created that the year length of the

SS was sidereal as against tropical. The amount of difference in time between a

sidereal and a tropical year, when converted into arc-seconds etc., is the rate

of annual precession, which is very roughly about 53 arc-seconds per year these

days. The amount of difference between the calculated longitudes of the SS and

the observed positions i.e. the Sidhantic Vasant Sampat etc. became known as

Ayanamsha! This word came into vogue for the first time around 9th

century in Laghumanasa of Munjala.  He was the only and most scientific

astronomer that India

has produced!  The Winter Solstice etc. were lagging behind by about six/seven

days during his time.  He advised that from Shaka 444 onwards, one arc-minute

per year must be subtracted  -- I repeat, subtracted----- from the calculated

longitudes of the Surya Sidhanta etc. to make them coincide with the observed

positions!  That practice was followed for several centuries, but it fell into disuse

later on with the advent of karna granthas, which followed theSurya Sidhanta

andBrahma Sphuta sidhanta etc. more in letter than I spirit. To the contrary of

what Munjala had advised, another ayanamsha myth was created and interpolations

made in the current Surya Sidhanta, which advocates a trepidation of equinoxes

as against the real unidirectional precession!

Against all the astronomical canons and even against

the adumbrated principles of Laghuamanasa, the cart was put before the horse 

-- Ayanmsha was added to the actual observed positions like Uttarayana or

Vasant Sampat etc. to make them coincide with the  calculated results of the

SS!  Thus instead of the SS Makar Sankranti coinciding with Uttarayana,

Uttarayana was “made” to coincide with SS Makar Sankranti, which

means the real Uttarayana went into oblivion day by day and an artificial Makar

Sankranti gained an undue prominence!  I am sure you known that these days TV

Bulletins announce on January 14/15, “It is Makar Sankranti and

Uttarayana today since the sun turns towards north on this day”.  You can

equally rest assured that when such an imaginary Makar Sankranti will recede to

March Equinox i.e. SpringEqui9nox when the day is equal to night instead of the

day being the shortest, even then the TV Bulletins will say, “Today is

Makar Sankranti and Uttarayana since the sun turns towards north today!”.

 

To add fuel to fire and insult to injury, Surya

Sidhanta fixed once for all an imaginary Mesharamba bindu with the start of

Ashvini nakshatra!  In other words, he “stopped” precession

completely, since the real Vernal Equinox which is known as Mesharamba bindu in

sidhantic astronomy, can never be tied to any nakshatra or to any point for

that matter.  This “eternal tie” of Mesharamba bindu to Ashvini made

the Ayanamsha myth a further necessary evil!

 

Since then, in spite of an all out search for an

exact amount of this mythical ayanamsha, we are as yet no nearer the solution! 

You can rest assured that we will never find any solution either, Shakuntla

Devi’s efforts notwithstanding, even after a thousand years, since it is

just an ignorance of astronomical facts that we are running after ayanamshas

galore!

 

The net result of such an elusive search for

ayanamsha was/is that we got completely de-linked from the seasonal

year-cum-calendar which our ancestors, till the advent of the Surya Sidhanta,

were following!

During the last couple of centuries, efforts were

made by stalwarts like S. B. Dikshit, V. G. Lele etc. to put the derailed

calendar back on the track i.e. to make the SS Makar Sankranti coincide with

real Uttarayana instead of an imaginary Uttarayana coinciding with an imaginary

Makar Sankranti.  They even obtained “aadesh patra” from His

Holiness Jagadguru Shankaracharya of Kamakoti that we should get rid of ayanamsha

myth and follow a seasonal year for our festivals etc.  But all their efforts

were brought to naught by phalit jytoishis who swear by a nirayanaRashichakra 

-- whatever that may mean!

 

During the last century, maximum damage to the

efforts of reforming the calendar were done by N. C. Lahiri, who sabotaged the

recommendations of the Saha Calendar Reform Committee by suggesting a so called

Chitra Ayanamsha, which is actually another name of his own i.e. Lahiri

Ayanamsha.  He advised that ayanamsha to kill two birds with one stone  -- that

was the ayanamsha nearest to Grahalaghava ---the rage of the day---in the early

forties of the previous century and that was the one he was using in his English

Ephemeris and Bangla Panchanga!

To outweigh the opinion of the members of the

Committee, he asked them to invite suggestions from all the jyotishis (sic!) as

to what type of a calendar they would like! No wonder, an overwhelming majority

of the phalit jyotishis, for whom Vedanga Jyiotisha was a book of making

predictions from Magnal, Shani etc. planets and Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis,

instead of calculating just mean tithi, nakshatra and the advent of Uttarayana

etc., voted for Lahiri Ayanamsha!  It is that very Ayanamsha the RP is using. 

Thus our calendar is getting more and more skewed every day and  with the

result that  a time will come when we will celebrate vasanti navratras in

Varsha Ritu, Sharadaiya navratras in Shishira Ritu and so on.  Naturally,

Dipavali will be celebrated somewhere in February then  i.e. the month of

Madhu, first month of Vasanta season and so on.  No wonder all our muhurtas

also have got topsy-turvy, thanks to Ayanamsha myth created by phalit jyotishis!

 

In fact, the precession was used, whether knowingly

or unknowingly, by our Vedic Rishis to mark the position of Vernal

Equinox/Winter Solstice etc. against different nakshatras. For example, in

about 1400 BCE, the Vernal Equinox was in the nakshatra of krittika with the

result that Uttarayana New Moon fell in the middle of Ashlesha and the

Dakshinayana New Moon at the beginning of Ardra.  (Please see star tables in

the files section) Thus we have been able to mark important astronomical

developments of the past several millennia in the Rigveda and all the other Vedas

etc.

 

Nowadays, our panchanga-makers, including the

Rashtriya Panchanga, are using precession –read Ayanamsha--- for deciding

our fasts and festivals much against the principles of any dharmashastra or

even any astronomy, whether sidhantic or modern, as explained above

 

Thus your view

< If the above is correct then, RP takes into

account the precession of

the earth's axis - just that its months are shifted

by so many weeks.,,

 if RP does not take into  account the earth's

precession then, it also can not be followed.>

is a contrary to the actual position, since

precession has nothing to do with seasons and all our festivals are season

based!  So are the calendars of farmers etc.

 

 

It is up to people like you and me as to how to deal

with such a situation, i.e. how to get rid of the ayanamsha curse.

With regards,

A K Kaul

 

  hinducivilization ,

" amsharanx " <amsharanx wrote:

>

>

> Shree Kauljee:

>

>                 To clear the confusion, let me write

what I

> understand. I have gone through what you have written.

>

> 1. Lahiri System does not account for precession. So,

it can not be

> used for determining the festivals , Kharmas etc which

are based on

> crop harvesting times - which has to be based on

precession of the

> earth's axis.

>

> Lahiri's System is thus ruled out.

>

> 2. The Rashtriya Panchanga - if it calls March 21 as

the begining of

> Chaitra whether now or 10, 000 years later on - there

is no harm in

> calling that as Chaitra unless you want to call it in

February year

> after year which may be even 10, 000 years after. You

seem to

> associate Chaitra with Vasant Ritu which - in India - would

be in

> February. Only in Europe,

Spring comes on March 21.

>

> If the above is correct then, RP takes into account the

precession of

> the earth's axis - just that its months are shifted by

so many weeks.

>

> Regarding Kharmas( Harvesting time ) , if RP does not

take into

> account the earth's precession then, it also can not be

followed.

>

> Do I understand these correctly ?

>

> Things are quite simple and straight forward. It is

very difficult

> for me to grasp the introduction of complexity.

>

> Thanks.

>

> Anand M. Sharan 

>

>

> hinducivilization , " Avtar

Krishen Kaul "

> <jyotirved@> wrote:

> >

> > Dr. Anand M. Sharanji,

> > Namaskar!

> > I am surprised at your rsponse <I would say

that we should

> > celebrate  festivals according to RP,if the

festivals or Kharmas -

> > are weather dependentthe  >

> > Will you plese go through my mail again and then

let me know as to

> > how RP Kharmas is related to seasons?  Why do you

overlook that the

> > RP Kharmas and Lahiri Kharmas are one and the same

thing?  The real

> > Vedic i.e. seasonal Kharmas will always be from

February 21 to

> > ZMarch 21 whereas RP Kharmas  i.e. Lahiri Kharmas

is these days

> from

> > March 14 to April 14 and in about a thousand years

it will be from

> > June 21 to July 21.

> > Do you still want to cling to the same

Lahri-cum-RP kharmas and

> > festivals etc.?

> > Regards,

> > AKK

> > >.

> > >

> >

> > hinducivilization ,

" amsharanx "

> > <amsharanx@> wrote:

> > >

> > >  Kauljee,

> > > Namskar. We, in Bihar,

follow Vikram Calendar with slight

> > deviation

> > > since we go by Purnamsi whereas in Ujjain's Vikram Calendar

( I

> > > believe ) starts after the Amavasya. So, you

can imagine the

> > > confusion even there - even with the Samvat

by the same name. It

> > is

> > > like the Hindu Dharma which has integrated

people of all beliefs

> > > rather than Xtian or Islamic systems which

have more or less

> > > standardized their religions with Jesus as

the Number 1 or Md.

 

> > Sahab

> > > as the Number 1. We have several Gods or

Niraakaar God also.

> > >

> > > Consequently, the existence of many calendar

systems. From your

> > > descriptions, RP ( Rashtriya Panchanga )

looks rational because

> it

> > > will keep up with seasons which you have

intended.

> > >

> > > What do the Lahiriwalas get out of all their

confusions - this I

> > do

> > > not know. I do not bother because they just

took an arbitrary

> > > Ayanamsha which does not make any sense to me

- based on what I

> > know -

> > >  of course.

> > >

> > > I would say that we should celebrate the

festivals according to

> > RP,

> > > if the festivals or Kharmas - are weather

dependent.

> > >

> > > Thanks.

> > >

> > > Anand M. Sharan

> > >

> > > hinducivilization ,

" jyotirved "

> <jyotirved@>

> > > wrote:

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Dr. Anand M. Sharan ji,

> > > > Namaskar!

> > > > I have been very late in replying your

post of May 28.  In any

> > > case, better

> > > > late than never.

> > > > You have said

> > > > < The Chaitra month of Govt of India

will not drift towards the

> > > summer

> > > > because it is now tied to the Xtian (

Gregorian ) calendar. The

> > > > artificial Aries ( Mesha ) starts after

the equinox. This is

> > about

> > > > the first point ( dealing with the

Calendar ). Thus we are also

> > > calling

> > > > artificial Mesha and starting our Hindu

Calendar.>

> > > >

> > > > I was also under a similar impression

that our calendar has

> been

> > > fixed once

> > > > for all with the seasons by the GOI. 

Actually, the Rashtriya

> > > Panchanga (RP)

> > > > is playing a cruel joke with

unsuspecting Hindus on the whole

> > > because:

> > > > 1. As per the Vedas and the Vedanga

Jyotisha etc. etc. --- or

> > even

> > > as per

> > > > the Vishnu Purana etc.---March 21 should

be actually the start

> > of

> > > the month

> > > > of Vaishkha since that is the day of

Vernal Equinox! It means

> > that

> > > the real

> > > > Vedic Chaitra starts these days also

around February 21 every

> > year

> > > whereas

> > > > the GOI is saying that it starts from

March 21!

> > > >

> > > > 2 If you peruse the Rashtriya Panchanga

for any year, you will

> > find

> > > the

> > > > following words for March 21 " Vedic

month Madhava (Mesha)  --

> > > second month

> > > > of Vasanta Ritu " .  Madhava is

actually another name of

> Vaishakha

> > > and though

> > > > there are no Rashis in the Vedas, Mesha

also is an equivalent of

> > > > Vaishakha/Meshadi!  Same is the case

with every other month! As

> > > such, the RP

> > > > is contradicting itself at every step.

> > > >

> > > > 2. Thus it is just an artificial Chaitra

that has been tied to

> > > March 21

> > > > since the  Solar Chaitra, as per the

same RP, starts around

> > March

> > > 13 every

> > > > year!  That is the period when Lahiri

Solar Chaitra also

> > starts! 

> > > As such,

> > > > we have three solar Chaitras as per the

same RP with two

> > Chaitras

> > > starting

> > > > prior to the artificial Chaitra of March

21.  All the religious

> > > activities,

> > > > whether the fairs and fasts and

festivals or Muhurtas etc. are

> > > decided not

> > > > as per even the artificial i.e. March 21

Chaitra either but as

> > per

> > > the

> > > > Lahiri Chaitra!  For instance, Kharmas,

supposed to  be month

> of

> > > Chaitra,

> > > > which is prohibited for solemnizing marriages

etc., does not

> > range

> > > from

> > > > March 21 to April 20 but from March 14

to April 14, when

> > actually

> > > it should

> > > > range from February 21 to March 21  ---

i.e. during the solar

> > > transit of the

> > > > so called Vedic Mina Rashi as per the

same RP.

> > > >

> > > > At the rate of one day every seventy-two

years, in about five

> > > centuries from

> > > > today, Lahiri Chaitra and the artificial

Chaitra will coincide 

> > on

> > > March 21

> > > > and after that Lahiri Chaitra will go on

advancing further by

> > one

> > > day every

> > > > seventy two years.  Thus  a time will

come when Lahiri Chaitra

> > will

> > > coincide

> > > > with artificial Ashada  i.e. Summer

Solstice!  In the meantime,

> > > Rashtriya

> > > > Panchanga will continue to

" fix " the artificial Chaitra with

> > March

> > > 21.  Thus

> > > > at that point of time there will be

three Chaitras---one on

> > March

> > > 21 another

> > > > on around June 17 and then another one around

June 21.  Kharmas

> > > will then

> > > > range from June 21 to July 21!  Chaitri

Navratras, also known

> as

> > > Vasanti

> > > > Navratras, will then start only after

the Summer Solstice!

> > > >

> > > > We must keep in mind that the real Vedic

Chaitra will continue

> > to

> > > start from

> > > > February 21 then also and that will be

the first month of

> > Vasanta

> > > Ritu and

> > > > the month of Vedic Madhu as per the same

Rashtriya Panchanga! 

> > That

> > > should

> > > > also be actually the Kharmas prohibited

for marriages etc.

> > > >

> > > > Similar will be the fate of all the

other months!  E.g. RP

> > > Vaiishkha will

> > > > continue to start on April 20 whereas we

will be asked to

> > celebrate

> > > > Meshadi/Vaishakhi on July 21 then,

though in the  meantime,

> real

> > > Vedic

> > > > Vaishakha (Madhava) will continue to

remain from March 21 to

> > April

> > > 21.  That

> > > > will also be the second month of Vasanta

Riotu!

> > > >

> > > > Rashtriya Panchanga have made actually a

double whammy  -- (i)

> > they

> > > are

> > > > giving wrong names to Vedic months (ii)

they are making us

> > > celebrate all our

> > > > festivals and muhurtas etc. etc. as per

Lahiri months and

> > calendar

> > > and in

> > > > the meantime, (iii) trying to say that

they have fixed a so

> > called

> > > Chaitra

> > > > permanently to March 21 and so on.  In

other words, they are

> > really

> > > > committing the entire Hindu society to

adharma deliberately

> > since

> > > it is

> > > > impossible that an organization like

India Meteorological Deptt

> > or

> > > > Positional Astronomy Centre do not

realize as to what cruel

> > jokes

> > > they are

> > > > playing with the entire Hindu community

as  " Calendar makers to

> > the

> > > nation " .

> > > >

> > > > RP is doing all this because of the

pressure of " Vedic

> > Jyotishis "   -

> > > -

> > > > especially Lahiriwalas, who are dead

against any reforms in the

> > > calendar for

> > > > reasons not difficult to discern!

> > > >

> > > > I do not think we as intelligent Hindus

should take all such

> > > insults to our

> > > > intelligence and common sense, besides

our dharmashastras, by

> > the

> > > RP lying

> > > > down!

> > > > With regards,

> > > > A K Kaul

> > > >

> > > > --- In

hinducivilization , " amsharanx "

> > > > <amsharanx@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > --- In

hinducivilization , " jyotirved "

> > <jyotirved@>

> > > > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Dr. Anand M. Sharan ji,

> > > > > Namaskar!

> > > > > < I do not believe he realized

that the present Hindu Months

> > > > > are seasonal - for example Chaitra

Month will always be warm.

> > > This

> > > > > is  because it is now linked to the

Xtian Calendar which is

> > > season

> > > > > based.>

> > > > >

> > > > > Solar (Lahiri) Chaitra month starts

these days around March

> 14

> > > > every

> > > > year.

> > > > > In 285 AD, it started with the

month of Madhu i.e. around

> > February

> > > > 19 of the

> > > > > then non-existent Gregorian

calendar!  Thus approximately

> every

> > > > seventy-two

> > > > > years Lahiri Chaitra will go on

separating by one day

> > further.  It

> > > > means in

> > > > > about 720 years from today, it will

start on March 24 and

> then

> > in

> > > > about

> > > > > another 720 years it will start on

April 4.  That way a time

> > may

> > > > come when

> > > > > Lahiri Chaitra will fall on June

21  -- the Summer Solstice

> > Day!

> > > > >

> > > > > A lunar month cannot start earlier

than the solar month of a

> > > > similar

> > > > name.

> > > > > Obviously, lunar Chaitra will start

only after solar Chaitra!

> > > > >

> > > > What you are talking about Lahiri / Shakuntala

Devi ZERO

> > Aynamsha

> > > > Year

> > > >  drift towards the Summer ( June etc )

is nothing new. This was

> > the

> > > > reason for the Gregorian Calendar.

> > > >

> > > > The Chaitra month of Govt of India will

not drift towards the

> > summer

> > > > because it is now tied to the Xtian (

Gregorian ) calendar. The

> > > > artificial Aries ( Mesha ) starts after

the equinox. This is

> > about

> > > > the

> > > > first point ( dealing with the Calendar

). Thus we are also

> > calling

> > > > artificial Mesha and starting our Hindu

Calendar.

> > > >

> > > > I think Lahiri was aiming for 325 AD (

Julian Calendar date )

> and

> > > > ended up with 285 AD. I do not see why

he would choose 285 AD

> > when

> > > > there was nothing special in the sky.

> > > >

> > > > After reading Shakuntala Devi's book on

Astrology, she applies

> > the

> > > > Aynamsha correction to the Rashi cusps

as well as to the

> > planetary

> > > > positions. It looks to me is that she is

trying to define zero

> > > > position of Aries. But, according to the

Roman - Greek

> > observation

> > > of

> > > > zodiac sign, the transition of the

equinox from Aries to Pisces

> > took

> > > > place in 57 BC. This was the reason of

introduction of Vikram

> > Samvat

> > > > which , even being Jyotshis - they did

not recognize this fact.

> > > >

> > > > In Delhi

or Jaipur in Jantar Mantar - Maharaja Sawai Jai Singh

> > has

> > > > Rashi measuring Yantras for horoscopes  

-( 6 + 6 ) Rashis.

> > Being in

> > > > Delhi,

perhaps you can have a look at them. He was a man who

> > went

> > > for

> > > > precision. I would imagine that his

concepts were more accurate

> > than

> > > > these Jyotshis who are using 285 AD as a

reference point in

> time.

> > > >

> > > > In summary - the present day used

Chaitra Month WILL NOT DRIFT

> > due

> > > to

> > > > our linking with Xtian Calendar which is

Equinox based - which

> > is

> > > > your

> > > > concept of starting a new year - whether

it is equinox or Winter

> > > > solstice - it does not matter. The main

thing is the drifting

> of

> > > > months.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Thanks.

> > > >

> > > > Anand M. Sharan

> > > >

> > > > --- End forwarded message ---

> > > >

> > > > --- End forwarded message ---

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

 Dr. Anand M. Sharan ji,

Namaskar!

You have said

< When you say precession has nothing to do with

seasons - how can I

agree with you ? It is the relationship between the cause and effect.

The SHIFT in season is because of the precession. It is this shift -

you are writing long articles about. For some thing to shift, there

has to be some thing stationary.>

 

In this regards, all I can do is to quote from the following website of

NASA the answer to question No. 174.  It is a detailed answer  -- even the

question is detailed!---and since NASA scientists are supposed to be more

knowledgeable about such things, I hope the answer will satisfy you that

Precession of Equinoxes has really nothing whatsoever to do with seasons!

The real Vedic i.e. Hindu calendar being seasonal, obviously,

precession has nothing to do with that calendar. Seasonal calendar is also the

one that our farmers follow or should follow.

 

Since Ayanamsha is somehow or other a misnomer for precession,

obviously it is being dragged into calendar making unnecessarily. By whom and

why, that everybody knows!

With regards,

A K Kaul

 

------                  -------                 --------          -------           -------            ---------

 http://www-istp.gsfc.nasa.gov/stargaze/Sprecess.htm

174. Does Precession of the

Equinoxes shift our Seasons?

A very good old friend of mine a few years ago told me

that the reason our winters are starting to arrive later and later is because

in a few thousand years, the axis of the earth will eventually change and our

winter season will become summer season and vice versa. I'm no longer in touch

with him but I always knew him to be a very knowledgeable person in the fields

of cosmology and meteorology. But I have yet to read anywhere or meet anyone

who could verify his claim. Is there any truth to his claim? I have noticed the

change in the past twenty years so I'd really to get to the bottom of it and

understand why this is happening.

Reply

Your friend had in mind a real phenomenon of nature, but

it actually happens differently, and the results are not the ones your friend

credited to it.

 

The Earth orbits the Sun in a large flat plane, known as the ecliptic. The reasons we have winter,

summer etc., is that the axis around which the Earth turns is not perpendicular

to the ecliptic, but makes an angle of about 23.5 degrees to that

perpendicular.

 

Thus in the summer,

the northern hemisphere is tilted towards the

Sun, the north pole gets 24-hour sunshine and countries north of the

equator also get longer days and more concentrated sunlight. Six months later,

the axis still faces the same way in space, but now the Sun is on the other

side, the north pole is in the shade all the time, the northern hemisphere gets

longer nights and sunlight falls there at a more shallow angle, reducing its

power to heat the land.

 

All this is described in " Seasons of the year " at http://www.phy6.org/stargaze/Sseason.htm

which also shows how seasons south of the equator are in opposite parts of the

year.

 

Now what your friend is aware of is that the direction of the Earth axis changes. It always makes an angle of about 23.5 degrees

with the line perpendicular to the ecliptic plane--but while keeping this

angle, it wanders around a cone,

whose axis is perpendicular to the ecliptic. It takes about 26,000 years to go

completely around that cone. The technical name for this phenomenon is " Precession of the Equinoxes " and it is

described in

 

http://www.phy6.org/Sprecess.htm

 

 

Precession, however, does not make the seasons different from

what they are now. The picture given in " Seasons of the Year, " of the

Earth tilted by 23.5 degrees while orbiting the Sun, still describes the

situation, except that over the

thousands of years, it is slowly rotated in space, relative to the rest of the

universe. (If you made a flat paper model of it and put it on a table top, what

happens is that the model gets slowly rotated on top of the table). The orbital

plane remains the same, only the Earth rotation axis goes around a cone.

 

Since the picture is the same, the seasons are the same. Our

calendars are all adjusted to include this phenomenon, to keep (for instance)

the date of the shortest day of the year around December 21.

 

What does change are the background

stars. Since the pattern rotates relative to them, the seasonal

presentation of the stars slowly rotates, too. Nowadays we see the

constellation Orion in the sky after sunset in winter, and the constellation of

Scorpio in mid summer, with its bright portion of the Milky Way. In 13,000

years, the rotation will make Orion shine in the evening in midsummer, and

Scorpio in mid-winter. The pole star, too, will shift, and the evening

constellations may also shift closer or further from the horizon. (Stars have

motions of their own, too, and in 13,000 years, constellations may somewhat

change.).

 

All that, however, deals with the stars at night. Seasons are tied strictly to the relative

positions of Earth and Sun, and that will not change.

 

I have not heard about winters

arriving later, but it may seem that way, because winters are also

getting warmer, part of the " global warming " trend. There is little

doubt that global warming is happening. Some people still wonder whether it is

part of a slow fluctuation which will ultimately reverse itself. More and more

however accept that it is caused by the increase of molecular gases (carbon

dioxide, methane) due to human activities, which makes it harder for the

atmosphere to radiate (shine) its heat back to space.

 

                                    ***                              ****                            ****                ****                ***

 

 

HinduCalendar [HinduCalendar ] On

Behalf Of Avtar Krishen Kaul

Friday, June

22, 2007 2:24 PM

HinduCalendar

[HinduCalendar] Fwd: Re: The Veda, India, and the Sacred Map Symbol -

 

hinducivilization , " amsharanx "

<amsharanx wrote:

 

Dear Kauljee:

              Thanks for the long article which I have read just now.

When you say precession has nothing to do with seasons - how can I

agree with you ? It is the relationship between the cause and effect.

The SHIFT in season is because of the precession. It is this shift -

you are writing long articles about. For some thing to shift, there

has to be some thing stationary.

 

              I know what you are talking about. It is that you do

Not want to look beyond sun, earth and the moon - purely synodic view

of

the universe. Yes, in that case, it is all Equinox, Winter Solstice,

and Summer Solstice. But, the reality is that there are other things

beyond these - like nakshatras ( real ones ). Even with all of

these - including the nakshatras - one can see the variation of the

points of

Winter or Summer Solstices with respect to distant stars etc. I hold

this view but for the festivals - which are Season Dependent - they

should only be based Solar ( Equinoxes, Solstices ).

 

              Regarding the contribution of moon in all of these, it

does define a month of approx 30 days due to its periodicity of 29.6

days. There is nothing special about the sun in 30 days.The period of

the sun is 1 year which is too long to specify any thing.

 

             Therefore, in any calendar - it is the principle which

has to be laid out first and then other details.

 

            If we want to observe festivals at the right season (

Mausam ) then, it is better to forget about the Vedas etc but just

bring forward the essence - which is from the utility point of view -

harvest related calendar.

 

            If you bring Vedas, the Jyotishis will bring in

Varahmihira or many others. Then the issues get confused.

 

           Jyotishism has nothing to do with harvest ( season )

related festivals.

 

           Just lay down the calendar related to seasons.

 

Thanks.

 

Anand M. Sharan

 

 

 

 

 

hinducivilization , " jyotirved "

<jyotirved@>

wrote:

>

> Dr.  Anand M. Sharanji,

>

> Namaskar!

>

> Please bear with me for a few minutes if you find the answer to

your

mail a

> bit long!  The confusion regarding precession vis-à­¶is Hindu

calendar has

> to be clarified once for all!

[Guest guest]

hinducivilization , " amsharanx "

<amsharanx wrote:

 

Dear Kauljee:

 

I just want to add a note regarding what I have

written

below. What is written below is based on the old ( pre 1582 Calendar

Reform by Xtian Church ) calendaryear.

 

Now a days, the year has been shortened to account for

the precession. So, the weather on Dec 21 at Delhi will remain the

same irrespective of number of years.

 

So, your point of starting Spring from February 20 plus

or minus 2 to three days in India is valid. For Europeanss -it can

be

Spring after the Equinox ( March 21 ) but in India - it is too hot

by

that time. We can hardly call it Spring after March 21. You can see

it from leaves shed by trees ( Patjharh or Fall in Western

Countries ) which precedes Spring.

 

Thanks.

 

Anand M. Sharan

 

 

 

hinducivilization , " amsharanx " <amsharanx@>

wrote:

>

> Dear Kauljee:

>

> The NASA article is correct. I had mentioned that

> for some thing to change ( SHIFT ) some other thing has to be

> stationary. The NASA article considers the months to be fixed i.e.

> December, January etc.

>

> For example, the Maximum temperature of Delhi

these

> days on Dec. 21 is say 16 degrees C, and foggy. After 26000/4

years ,

> it will rise on Dec 21 to 32 degrees. After 26000/2 Years, it will

be

> 44 degrees C on the same Dec 21. This is due to precession - i.e.

the

> season at Delhi has shifted from Winter to Summer on Dec 21. The

days

> will also be shorter on Dec 21. On the North Pole, it will be sun

> shine 24 hours of day then. This is because the earth's axis at

the

> pole faces the sun then.

>

> Right now in the Year 2007, it ( the point of intersection of the

> earth's axis to the earth's surface at the North Pole ) is away

from

> the sun. So, it is dark and cold there at the North Pole on Dec 21.

>

> Thanks.

>

> Anand M. Sharan

>

>

>

> hinducivilization , " jyotirved " <jyotirved@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Dr. Anand M. Sharan ji,

> >

> > Namaskar!

> >

> > You have said

> >

> > < When you say precession has nothing to do with seasons - how

can I

> >

> > agree with you ? It is the relationship between the cause and

> effect.

> >

> >