Guest guest Posted July 6, 2007 Report Share Posted July 6, 2007 Om Datta GuruDear Robert,Though I had walked off this list long back due to the racist remark but was compelled to write in ur defense as I know u are a genuine seeker of this shastra. This mail is not intended just for u :-I feel we have a different problem its not about whether Outer Planets were written by our sages but do we have the Open Mind to understand jyotish, is it a growing science. Do the planets behave differently in different yugas (clues to this have been given in many old books), so should we alter our thinking.1) We do not have even 1-5 % of the ancient books so debating if outer planets were written in the old books is fruitless especially since there are hundreds of books in libraries and at homes which are yet to be translated. Even the few nadis with me are gathering dust though i have begged Good scholars of sanskrit to translate it and they are unable to do so. Sometimes I feel if Nadi work is meant for everyone e.g Santhanam died all of a sudden when he had almost finished Bhrigu Nadi & who ever has touched Bhrigu Nadi has faced unsurmountable problems. I wish he had brought it out, he had said all works aside and Bhrigu Nadi in one side, thats the worth of it.2) If KNRao challenged the marathi astrologers this must be taken in another context, we must understand Rao Sahebs strength & weakness first (this is not meant to demean him) - one of his own mentor in mundane astrology the Late Hardeo Sharma Trivedi used to use Outer Planets fantastically in his predictions and is till date one of the greatest predictors of mundane astrology.3) Ramans grandfather often said to him forget the shloka business see what works that is True astrology, so running behind shlokas for it is useless. Then even if shlokas are presented whats the use, can anyone today interpret it, I have not found a true knowledgeable guy in sanskrit.4) Current breed of scholars are self appointed scholars who have zero level of scientific mind and do not test any principle. thousands of shlokas do not work what do they have to say to that. So should we discard all the works of the Rishis who wrote it. Rishis do not agree to the effects of even something as a planet in a house, different opinions among rishis5) The Late P.S.Iyer whom Rao Saheb also says was one of the most fantastic astrologer used to predict to the DAY every event, he used to use the Outer Planets.6) 4 hrs from Bombay is a person still alive who was brought up in a tradition where books from Lopi Script were handed down to him, for 25 yrs he was taught astrology and only after that he was asked to see his first chart & practice jyotish (the money he takes is in form of donation, he does not see the amount given & donates it full). I have not met an astrologer like him, of all the astrologers i have met and interacted he is the only guy I know who can UNLOCK a chart. He was introduced to me by an Ex-SJC Mumbai person and I have vowed not to take current breed of astrologers to him, they do not deserve him. I always say if people on the lists from india knew astrology they would not have spare time to write here as flock of people would be outside their house. This man has a daily visitation of 100 people and he drives the rest away. He uses Outer Planets and his parampara is of more than 14 generations, at that time the world did not even know of Outer Planets. I asked him to share the shlokas from his family, he said can u or anyone read them, then do u all have the ability to decode it, whats the use of getting into scholarly mode that 'Only when u see the shloka u would believe, forget shlokas test the technique only then u would learn astrology' - he told me.I have begged him to come out with a book but he refuses, this vidya is only misused by egoists so he does not want a curse of sharing that knowledge to such readers. He is a DashaGranthi Brahmin btw, my efforts still continue in him bringing at least a basic book.7) Our astrology in current form is useless in a deeper sense, we realise that when we read ChandraKala Nadi (Devekerelam) & to a certain extent Bhavartha Ratnakara for e.g8) Narendra Desai the greatest astrologer to walk into america as per most senior astrologers in america had seen the text of Vasistha Nadi wherein Outer Planets was mentioned and we all know how fantastic a predictor he was, ofcourse his breed will never be born again. People on lists will sit here whole life arguing that Outer Planets are not mentioned in classics but no one has the guts to test it on 100 charts with an open mind. Only when we test we realise what we are missing and alas we say we hide behind Parasara's back as if we know everything that he said. We cant even interpret his shlokas well. If we read first 2 chapters of BPHS and UNDERSTAND what he is trying to say (which is understandable as it is in clear english) we would know that he is not going to reveal everything that is astrology at all so its useless to hide behind his back. Shri Narendra Desai had a saying 'Do not listen to what people say, this Uranus works and it works too well'.9) People say that the issue is not if outerplanets takes 100 yrs blah blah to move from a sign, what about Jupiter it takes only 1 yr, can we say with all honesty that we understand how Jupiter is going to give results in a chart or say any other planet in jyotish - ofcourse not we do not know Jyotish as to even what Jyotish Is - this is the truth and can be found out when we meet masters who had some knowledge of this science.10) Jyotish is an internal Sadhana which requires Bhakti of the highest order and people who are argumentative, have anger, have jealousy, want to put others down, have ego, have need for fame or getting themselves shown as scholars will never understand it in this or any lifetime. Even Parasara and other sages have mentioned the above criteria, I guess they were not fools. This vidya is of Sanyasi's and not common man, anyone who has travelled in search of true jyotish n met masters will realise this statement as he will often find this answer staring right at his face.I appreciate people like u who have tested the outer planets in over hundred charts, u are far better off than us who only talk talk talk or hide behind shlokas and we cant even test the shlokas that we know on 100 charts. To end this,' We do not understand what the sages have said so getting into arguments or discussions and says Sages said this or that is Absurdity'best wishesSunil JohnMumbaiP.S: To others pls do not waste ur energy in replying to this mail, I do not have the time or inclination to read it. , Robert Koch <rk wrote:>> Namah Shivaya> ~~~~~~~~~~~~> > Dear Mr. Nair,> > Thank you for your post as well, which, although much less cynical > than the responses of Sreenadh-ji, poses some good points. I too > have argued for years since embarking on an ambitious study of > Jyotish in 1984 that Uranus, Neptune and Pluto have no place within > the practice of classical Jyotish. What naksatras do they rule? Who > is their Devata, etc.? But my original stoicism toward these planets > has changed due to undeniable experience of their > affects. Astrologers must bring different approaches to the table as > to the usefulness of these planets in actual astrological practice, > rather than endless parrot-like quoting of shastras in an effort to > dismiss them. There are those whose habit is to disable or ignore > new approaches based on scriptural and classical reference, and then > there are those who seek to find out in practice if they work or not > or are useful. I prefer to take the latter route frankly.> > Let me make my point more clear: I believe in the active and > enthusiastic efforts to try, research, and investigate the various > methods of astrology being put forth. If there is even an inkling of > reference to Vasishta Nadi, or Kapila Nadi as to Uranus, Neptune and > Pluto, or if stalwarts in the field for whom I have great respect (as > an example, Sri Chandulal S. Patel who did extensive research on the > use of outer planets) then I personally will not sit on my hands > until I have seen their effect in at least 100 charts. The fact is, > that if transit Pluto moves over the lagna or Moon of the chart, you > will not be able to deny the life-changing events and affects that > such transits bring forward. This has been my observation testing it > in hundreds of charts in a period of 23 years. There are various > progression methods too practiced by both Nadi astrologers as well as > western astrologers, and these will bring very specific events to our > awareness referencing these outer planets as well.> > However, you are right, if Sri K.N. Rao challenged some Marathi > astrologers to demonstrate their researches on outer planets, then > the latter should have come forward to prove their point.> > Anyway, so how will we use our classical knowledge then? To dismiss > or negate, or to rejuvenate the energy of discovery by trial and > error, research and investigation? It is all up to the disposition > of the individual astrologer and how he/she sees the learning and > practice of this great science. If I think for a moment that my > technique or knowledge is sufficient, and all the while I have not > practically tested even what I do know on a multiplicity of charts, > then Jyotish becomes a dry, intellectual hobby at best. Then it only > serves to reinforce the ego of the astrologer, rather than becoming a > vehicle to uplift and enlighten others. If, however, the astrologer > continually tries, tests, and researches, then he keeps the science > alive and you may be surprised how many secrets are revealed to a > person with that attitude toward his practice.> > With best regards, and no disrespect intended toward anyone -> > Robert> > At 01:48 AM 7/5/2007, you wrote:> > >Hare rama krishna,> >> >dear robertji,> >> > Thanks for your post.> >> >But as seekers of truth and holders of light called jyothisha > >should we go by some stray references which quoted by some one in > >some group or we shud look for its textual reference.in tamil or > >sanskrit ,as most of naadis in this laungage and quote the page > >--line of concerned books.> >> >my observations.> >> >1)this planets stays more years and transit in ones life is > >negligible as almost 100 or more years it stays in one rasi> >> > 2) There is no graha --khetra allotted to this planets by vedic > > seers,like ucha ,swa or neecha .> >> >3)There is no dasa periods as its important in delination of results.> >> >4) their nature ,karaka and frndly and enmy planets r not identified > >again important in vedic style of delination of results.> >> >And i read --i dont hav text--in varaha hora --varahmihira describes > >--there are 100s crores of planets are there but we take only 7 > >planets and 2 chaya grahs ( its some thing like grhanam shatha kodi > >---- like this --may be sree nath can help me ),as only this planets > >can influence in ecliptical path of earth .> >> >Also one naadi astrology people under the team of sri Taneja of > >delhi uses this planets as i was told he was taught this method by > >one J C LUTRA ,again i dont know whats their sourse,and i could not > >test it as they use differrent ayanamsha and charges 15000/- or some > >for software ,so i leav it> >> >Once in one astro conference held and chaired by BV raman ,sri KN > >rao challenged all marathi astrologers to prove those who uses extra > >sataurnian planets ,all shied away ,most of them were famous astrologers> >> >i heard in mahabharath vedvyas mentiones indra varuna,rudra dring > >the time of war --yes i dont hav that part with me now> >> >But its more mundane as a bloody distructive war.> >> >pls produce textual support.> >> >regrds sunil nair> >> >om shreem mahalaxmai namah.> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > , Robert Koch rk@ wrote:> > >> > > Namaste Prafulla,> > >> > > At 08:56 AM 7/4/2007, you wrote:> > > >Dear Sir> > > >> > > >Harshal, Neptune etc are referred in one of the nadi..I do not> > > >remember..one of the jyotish forum member shared that on another> > > >thread in another forum.> > >> > > Yes, according to my sources also, Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto are> > > taught in Vasishta and Kapila Nadis.> > >> > > Best regards,> > > Robert Koch> > >> > >> > > >regards / Prafulla Gang> > > >http://www.prafulla.net> > > >> > > >"The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to> > > >be taken seriously."> > > >************************************************> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > navagraha@> > > > > ! Wed, 4 Jul 2007 09:02:47 -0400> > > > > > > > > > Re: Re: Importance of Bhava Chart> > > > >> > > > > Namaste Sreenadh,> > > > >> > > > > There are astrologers in Maharashatra that give absolutely brilliant> > > > > predictions. They use Hershel, Neptune etc. Rarely use dashas. I agree> > > > > with> > > > > you that Hershel and neptune have no classical standing.> > > > >> > > > > I personally do not think hershel and neptune don't need to be used to> > > > > give> > > > > predictions. Quest for Pramana in classics is the way to go.> > > > >> > > > > ...> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > On 7/4/07, Sreenadh sreesog@ wrote:> > > > >>> > > > >> Dear Prafulla ji,> > > > >> I don't know. That is not my domai! n as well. I am after ancient> > > > >> Indian astrology - in a continuing search for the originals. That is> > > > >> the only thing I can say.> > > > >> Love,> > > > >> Sreenadh> > > > >>> > > > >> --- In> > > > >>> > > > > > <%40>,> > > > >> Prafulla Gang> > > > >> jyotish@ wrote:> > > > >>>> > > > >>> Dear Sreenadh ji> > > > >>>> > > > >>> I am not familiar with history of jyotish and sanskrit as well. But> > > > >> In my observation - most traditionalist in northern India use bhava> > > > >> chalit chart for quite accurate predictions. If it does not make> > > > >> sense, then how come predictions are so accurate?> > > > >>>> > > > >>> regards / Prafulla Gang> > > > >>> http://www.prafulla.net> > > > & !> >gt;>>> > > > >>> "The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to> > > > >> be taken seriously."> > > > >>> ************************************************> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> sreesog@> > > > >>>> Tue, 03 Jul 2007 05:59:46 -0000> > > > >>>> To:> > > > >>>>> > > > > > <%40>> > > > >>>> Re: Importance of Bhava Chart> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>> Dear Kannan ji,> > > > >>>> There is "no seperate bhava chart"; the Rasi chart itself is the> > > > >>>> bhava chart. Considering bhava chart as a seperate entity originated> > > ! > >>>> after the period of Sripati of 10th centuary AD. It is misleading> > > > >>>> concept similar to considering Navamsa as a seperate chart not> > > > >>>> supported by ancient sages.> > > > >>>> You can find more info regarding the same from the following file> > > > >>>> present in the file section of the group.> > > > >>>> URL:> > > > >>>> > > Sreenadh/> > > > >>>> Signs and Houses.pdf> > > > >>>> As you could see there is no point in discussing non-existent things> > > > >>>> which are not supported by the sages; as of me I trying to > > understand> > > > >>>> what they taught, as per their own words. [And therefore any> > > > >>>> discussion on Bhava, considering it not the same as sign, is not my> > > > >>>> domain]> > > > >>>>> > > & !> >gt; >>>> ==>> > > > >>>>> For eg. Jupiter an important planet for Scorpio Lagna placed in> > > > >>>>> Makara in Rasi (debilitation) and in Dhanu in Bhava (own sign).> > > > >>>> <==> > > > >>>> As you could see, this is absurd. For Scorpio Lagna, Ju in> > > > >>>> Capricorn (Makara) rasi, is in 3rd house (bhava), and is > > in Capricorn> > > > >>>> sign. (Sign and house being the same). This is the ancient concept;> > > > >>>> and the result derivation would be as per that. > > > > >>>>> > > > >>>> ==>> > > > >>>>> In continuation to our earlier discussions on> > > > >>>>> Retrogression, in this example Jupiter is Retrograde and placed in> > > > >>>>> Meena in Navamsa. How much is the effect of debilitation/own sign> > > ! > >>>>> in this case.> > > > >>>> <==> > > > >>>> That is an entirely different subject (i.e. how to interpret Sign> > > > >>>> and Navamsa results) and would discussed later.> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>> ==>> > > > >>>>> Last but not the least I am eagerly waiting for your next file on> > > > >>>>> birth time rectification.> > > > >>>> <==> > > > >>>> Yes, this is one thing in the urgent task list. I will try to> > > > >>>> complete it by next Saturday or prior to that. > > > > >>>> Love,> > > > >>>> Sreenadh> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>> --- In> > > > >>>>> > > > > > <%40>,> > > > >> "kankan_73"> > > > >>> & g!> >t; <kankan_73@> wrote:> > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>> Dear Sreenadh ji,> > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>> Please tell me something on the importance of Bhava Chart. Do this> > > > >>>>> chart has importance like Navamsa. I have seen mentioning of bhava> > > > >>>>> position (if different from Rasi Chart) while mentioning Planetary> > > > >>>>> results in old Jathakams written by Kerala astrologers. What is> > > > >>>> the> > > > >>>>> result if an important planet is posited in different signs in Rasi> > > > >>>>> and Bhava.> > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>> For eg. Jupiter an important planet for Scorpio Lagna placed in> > > > >>>>> Makara in Rasi (debilitation) and in Dhanu in Bhava (own sign).> > > > >>> & g!> >t; How> > > > >>>>> do we analyze this. In contin uation to our earlier discussions on> > > > >>>>> Retrogression, in this example Jupiter is Retrograde and placed in> > > > >>>>> Meena in Navamsa. How much is the effect of debilitation/own sign> > > > >>>> in> > > > >>>>> this case.> > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>> I request you to give your views on Bhava vs Rasi> > > > >>>>> differences/effects in general and also your view on the above> > > > >>>>> example.> > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>> Last but not the least I am eagerly waiting for your next file on> > > > >>>>> birth time rectification.> > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>> Thanks & regards,> > > > >>>>> Kannan> > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>> & !> >gt;> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 6, 2007 Report Share Posted July 6, 2007 hare rama krishna, dear sunil john , u closed the discussion with u will not reply not open the mails --so is it applicable to me also waiting for ur response. and re read my mail regrds sunil nair om shreem mahalxmai namah. , "jjnet2000_in" <jjnet2000_in wrote:>> Om Datta Guru> > Dear Robert,> Though I had walked off this list long back due to the racist remark but> was compelled to write in ur defense as I know u are a genuine seeker of> this shastra. This mail is not intended just for u :-> I feel we have a different problem its not about whether Outer Planets> were written by our sages but do we have the Open Mind to understand> jyotish, is it a growing science. Do the planets behave differently in> different yugas (clues to this have been given in many old books), so> should we alter our thinking.> > 1) We do not have even 1-5 % of the ancient books so debating if outer> planets were written in the old books is fruitless especially since> there are hundreds of books in libraries and at homes which are yet to> be translated. Even the few nadis with me are gathering dust though i> have begged Good scholars of sanskrit to translate it and they are> unable to do so. Sometimes I feel if Nadi work is meant for everyone> e.g Santhanam died all of a sudden when he had almost finished Bhrigu> Nadi & who ever has touched Bhrigu Nadi has faced unsurmountable> problems. I wish he had brought it out, he had said all works aside and> Bhrigu Nadi in one side, thats the worth of it.> > 2) If KNRao challenged the marathi astrologers this must be taken in> another context, we must understand Rao Sahebs strength & weakness first> (this is not meant to demean him) - one of his own mentor in mundane> astrology the Late Hardeo Sharma Trivedi used to use Outer Planets> fantastically in his predictions and is till date one of the greatest> predictors of mundane astrology.> > 3) Ramans grandfather often said to him forget the shloka business see> what works that is True astrology, so running behind shlokas for it is> useless. Then even if shlokas are presented whats the use, can anyone> today interpret it, I have not found a true knowledgeable guy in> sanskrit.> > 4) Current breed of scholars are self appointed scholars who have zero> level of scientific mind and do not test any principle. thousands of> shlokas do not work what do they have to say to that. So should we> discard all the works of the Rishis who wrote it. Rishis do not agree to> the effects of even something as a planet in a house, different opinions> among rishis> > 5) The Late P.S.Iyer whom Rao Saheb also says was one of the most> fantastic astrologer used to predict to the DAY every event, he used to> use the Outer Planets.> > 6) 4 hrs from Bombay is a person still alive who was brought up in a> tradition where books from Lopi Script were handed down to him, for 25> yrs he was taught astrology and only after that he was asked to see his> first chart & practice jyotish (the money he takes is in form of> donation, he does not see the amount given & donates it full). I have> not met an astrologer like him, of all the astrologers i have met and> interacted he is the only guy I know who can UNLOCK a chart. He was> introduced to me by an Ex-SJC Mumbai person and I have vowed not to take> current breed of astrologers to him, they do not deserve him. I always> say if people on the lists from india knew astrology they would not have> spare time to write here as flock of people would be outside their> house. This man has a daily visitation of 100 people and he drives the> rest away. He uses Outer Planets and his parampara is of more than 14> generations, at that time the world did not even know of Outer Planets.> I asked him to share the shlokas from his family, he said can u or> anyone read them, then do u all have the ability to decode it, whats the> use of getting into scholarly mode that 'Only when u see the shloka u> would believe, forget shlokas test the technique only then u would learn> astrology' - he told me.> > I have begged him to come out with a book but he refuses, this vidya is> only misused by egoists so he does not want a curse of sharing that> knowledge to such readers. He is a DashaGranthi Brahmin btw, my efforts> still continue in him bringing at least a basic book.> > 7) Our astrology in current form is useless in a deeper sense, we> realise that when we read ChandraKala Nadi (Devekerelam) & to a certain> extent Bhavartha Ratnakara for e.g> > 8) Narendra Desai the greatest astrologer to walk into america as per> most senior astrologers in america had seen the text of Vasistha Nadi> wherein Outer Planets was mentioned and we all know how fantastic a> predictor he was, ofcourse his breed will never be born again. People on> lists will sit here whole life arguing that Outer Planets are not> mentioned in classics but no one has the guts to test it on 100 charts> with an open mind. Only when we test we realise what we are missing and> alas we say we hide behind Parasara's back as if we know everything that> he said. We cant even interpret his shlokas well. If we read first 2> chapters of BPHS and UNDERSTAND what he is trying to say (which is> understandable as it is in clear english) we would know that he is not> going to reveal everything that is astrology at all so its useless to> hide behind his back.> Shri Narendra Desai had a saying 'Do not listen to what people say, this> Uranus works and it works too well'.> > 9) People say that the issue is not if outerplanets takes 100 yrs blah> blah to move from a sign, what about Jupiter it takes only 1 yr, can we> say with all honesty that we understand how Jupiter is going to give> results in a chart or say any other planet in jyotish - ofcourse not we> do not know Jyotish as to even what Jyotish Is - this is the truth and> can be found out when we meet masters who had some knowledge of this> science.> > 10) Jyotish is an internal Sadhana which requires Bhakti of the highest> order and people who are argumentative, have anger, have jealousy, want> to put others down, have ego, have need for fame or getting themselves> shown as scholars will never understand it in this or any lifetime. Even> Parasara and other sages have mentioned the above criteria, I guess they> were not fools. This vidya is of Sanyasi's and not common man, anyone> who has travelled in search of true jyotish n met masters will realise> this statement as he will often find this answer staring right at his> face.> > I appreciate people like u who have tested the outer planets in over> hundred charts, u are far better off than us who only talk talk talk or> hide behind shlokas and we cant even test the shlokas that we know on> 100 charts.> > To end this,' We do not understand what the sages have said so getting> into arguments or discussions and says Sages said this or that is> Absurdity'> > best wishes> Sunil John> Mumbai> P.S: To others pls do not waste ur energy in replying to this mail, I do> not have the time or inclination to read it.> > > > > > > > > , Robert Koch rk@> wrote:> >> > Namah Shivaya> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~> >> > Dear Mr. Nair,> >> > Thank you for your post as well, which, although much less cynical> > than the responses of Sreenadh-ji, poses some good points. I too> > have argued for years since embarking on an ambitious study of> > Jyotish in 1984 that Uranus, Neptune and Pluto have no place within> > the practice of classical Jyotish. What naksatras do they rule? Who> > is their Devata, etc.? But my original stoicism toward these planets> > has changed due to undeniable experience of their> > affects. Astrologers must bring different approaches to the table as> > to the usefulness of these planets in actual astrological practice,> > rather than endless parrot-like quoting of shastras in an effort to> > dismiss them. There are those whose habit is to disable or ignore> > new approaches based on scriptural and classical reference, and then> > there are those who seek to find out in practice if they work or not> > or are useful. I prefer to take the latter route frankly.> >> > Let me make my point more clear: I believe in the active and> > enthusiastic efforts to try, research, and investigate the various> > methods of astrology being put forth. If there is even an inkling of> > reference to Vasishta Nadi, or Kapila Nadi as to Uranus, Neptune and> > Pluto, or if stalwarts in the field for whom I have great respect (as> > an example, Sri Chandulal S. Patel who did extensive research on the> > use of outer planets) then I personally will not sit on my hands> > until I have seen their effect in at least 100 charts. The fact is,> > that if transit Pluto moves over the lagna or Moon of the chart, you> > will not be able to deny the life-changing events and affects that> > such transits bring forward. This has been my observation testing it> > in hundreds of charts in a period of 23 years. There are various> > progression methods too practiced by both Nadi astrologers as well as> > western astrologers, and these will bring very specific events to our> > awareness referencing these outer planets as well.> >> > However, you are right, if Sri K.N. Rao challenged some Marathi> > astrologers to demonstrate their researches on outer planets, then> > the latter should have come forward to prove their point.> >> > Anyway, so how will we use our classical knowledge then? To dismiss> > or negate, or to rejuvenate the energy of discovery by trial and> > error, research and investigation? It is all up to the disposition> > of the individual astrologer and how he/she sees the learning and> > practice of this great science. If I think for a moment that my> > technique or knowledge is sufficient, and all the while I have not> > practically tested even what I do know on a multiplicity of charts,> > then Jyotish becomes a dry, intellectual hobby at best. Then it only> > serves to reinforce the ego of the astrologer, rather than becoming a> > vehicle to uplift and enlighten others. If, however, the astrologer> > continually tries, tests, and researches, then he keeps the science> > alive and you may be surprised how many secrets are revealed to a> > person with that attitude toward his practice.> >> > With best regards, and no disrespect intended toward anyone -> >> > Robert> >> > At 01:48 AM 7/5/2007, you wrote:> >> > >Hare rama krishna,> > >> > >dear robertji,> > >> > > Thanks for your post.> > >> > >But as seekers of truth and holders of light called jyothisha> > >should we go by some stray references which quoted by some one in> > >some group or we shud look for its textual reference.in tamil or> > >sanskrit ,as most of naadis in this laungage and quote the page> > >--line of concerned books.> > >> > >my observations.> > >> > >1)this planets stays more years and transit in ones life is> > >negligible as almost 100 or more years it stays in one rasi> > >> > > 2) There is no graha --khetra allotted to this planets by vedic> > > seers,like ucha ,swa or neecha .> > >> > >3)There is no dasa periods as its important in delination of results.> > >> > >4) their nature ,karaka and frndly and enmy planets r not identified> > >again important in vedic style of delination of results.> > >> > >And i read --i dont hav text--in varaha hora --varahmihira describes> > >--there are 100s crores of planets are there but we take only 7> > >planets and 2 chaya grahs ( its some thing like grhanam shatha kodi> > >---- like this --may be sree nath can help me ),as only this planets> > >can influence in ecliptical path of earth .> > >> > >Also one naadi astrology people under the team of sri Taneja of> > >delhi uses this planets as i was told he was taught this method by> > >one J C LUTRA ,again i dont know whats their sourse,and i could not> > >test it as they use differrent ayanamsha and charges 15000/- or some> > >for software ,so i leav it> > >> > >Once in one astro conference held and chaired by BV raman ,sri KN> > >rao challenged all marathi astrologers to prove those who uses extra> > >sataurnian planets ,all shied away ,most of them were famous> astrologers> > >> > >i heard in mahabharath vedvyas mentiones indra varuna,rudra dring> > >the time of war --yes i dont hav that part with me now> > >> > >But its more mundane as a bloody distructive war.> > >> > >pls produce textual support.> > >> > >regrds sunil nair> > >> > >om shreem mahalaxmai namah.> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > , Robert Koch rk@> wrote:> > > >> > > > Namaste Prafulla,> > > >> > > > At 08:56 AM 7/4/2007, you wrote:> > > > >Dear Sir> > > > >> > > > >Harshal, Neptune etc are referred in one of the nadi..I do not> > > > >remember..one of the jyotish forum member shared that on another> > > > >thread in another forum.> > > >> > > > Yes, according to my sources also, Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto are> > > > taught in Vasishta and Kapila Nadis.> > > >> > > > Best regards,> > > > Robert Koch> > > >> > > >> > > > >regards / Prafulla Gang> > > > >http://www.prafulla.net> > > > >> > > > >"The right to be heard does not automatically include the right> to> > > > >be taken seriously."> > > > >************************************************> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > navagraha@> > > > > > ! Wed, 4 Jul 2007 09:02:47 -0400> > > > > > > > > > > > Re: Re: Importance of> Bhava Chart> > > > > >> > > > > > Namaste Sreenadh,> > > > > >> > > > > > There are astrologers in Maharashatra that give absolutely> brilliant> > > > > > predictions. They use Hershel, Neptune etc. Rarely use dashas.> I agree> > > > > > with> > > > > > you that Hershel and neptune have no classical standing.> > > > > >> > > > > > I personally do not think hershel and neptune don't need to be> used to> > > > > > give> > > > > > predictions. Quest for Pramana in classics is the way to go.> > > > > >> > > > > > ...> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > On 7/4/07, Sreenadh sreesog@ wrote:> > > > > >>> > > > > >> Dear Prafulla ji,> > > > > >> I don't know. That is not my domai! n as well. I am after> ancient> > > > > >> Indian astrology - in a continuing search for the originals.> That is> > > > > >> the only thing I can say.> > > > > >> Love,> > > > > >> Sreenadh> > > > > >>> > > > > >> --- In> > > > > >>> > > > >> > >> <%40yaho\> ogroups.com>,> > > > > >> Prafulla Gang> > > > > >> jyotish@ wrote:> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>> Dear Sreenadh ji> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>> I am not familiar with history of jyotish and sanskrit as> well. But> > > > > >> In my observation - most traditionalist in northern India use> bhava> > > > > >> chalit chart for quite accurate predictions. If it does not> make> > > > > >> sense, then how come predictions are so accurate?> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>> regards / Prafulla Gang> > > > > >>> http://www.prafulla.net> > > > > & !> > >gt;>>> > > > > >>> "The right to be heard does not automatically include the> right to> > > > > >> be taken seriously."> > > > > >>> ************************************************> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> sreesog@> > > > > >>>> Tue, 03 Jul 2007 05:59:46 -0000> > > > > >>>> To:> > > > > >>>>> > > > >> > >> <%40yaho\> ogroups.com>> > > > > >>>> Re: Importance of Bhava> Chart> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>> Dear Kannan ji,> > > > > >>>> There is "no seperate bhava chart"; the Rasi chart itself> is the> > > > > >>>> bhava chart. Considering bhava chart as a seperate entity> originated> > > > ! > >>>> after the period of Sripati of 10th centuary AD. It is> misleading> > > > > >>>> concept similar to considering Navamsa as a seperate chart> not> > > > > >>>> supported by ancient sages.> > > > > >>>> You can find more info regarding the same from the> following file> > > > > >>>> present in the file section of the group.> > > > > >>>> URL:> > > > > >>>>> > >> Sreenadh/> > > > > >>>> Signs and Houses.pdf> > > > > >>>> As you could see there is no point in discussing> non-existent things> > > > > >>>> which are not supported by the sages; as of me I trying to> > > understand> > > > > >>>> what they taught, as per their own words. [And therefore> any> > > > > >>>> discussion on Bhava, considering it not the same as sign,> is not my> > > > > >>>> domain]> > > > > >>>>> > > > & !> > >gt; >>>> ==>> > > > > >>>>> For eg. Jupiter an important planet for Scorpio Lagna> placed in> > > > > >>>>> Makara in Rasi (debilitation) and in Dhanu in Bhava (own> sign).> > > > > >>>> <==> > > > > >>>> As you could see, this is absurd. For Scorpio Lagna, Ju> in> > > > > >>>> Capricorn (Makara) rasi, is in 3rd house (bhava), and is> > > in Capricorn> > > > > >>>> sign. (Sign and house being the same). This is the ancient> concept;> > > > > >>>> and the result derivation would be as per that. > > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>> ==>> > > > > >>>>> In continuation to our earlier discussions on> > > > > >>>>> Retrogression, in this example Jupiter is Retrograde and> placed in> > > > > >>>>> Meena in Navamsa. How much is the effect of> debilitation/own sign> > > > ! > >>>>> in this case.> > > > > >>>> <==> > > > > >>>> That is an entirely different subject (i.e. how to> interpret Sign> > > > > >>>> and Navamsa results) and would discussed later.> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>> ==>> > > > > >>>>> Last but not the least I am eagerly waiting for your next> file on> > > > > >>>>> birth time rectification.> > > > > >>>> <==> > > > > >>>> Yes, this is one thing in the urgent task list. I will> try to> > > > > >>>> complete it by next Saturday or prior to that. > > > > > >>>> Love,> > > > > >>>> Sreenadh> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>> --- In> > > > > >>>>> > > > >> > >> <%40yaho\> ogroups.com>,> > > > > >> "kankan_73"> > > > > >>> & g!> > >t; <kankan_73@> wrote:> > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>> Dear Sreenadh ji,> > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>> Please tell me something on the importance of Bhava Chart.> Do this> > > > > >>>>> chart has importance like Navamsa. I have seen mentioning> of bhava> > > > > >>>>> position (if different from Rasi Chart) while mentioning> Planetary> > > > > >>>>> results in old Jathakams written by Kerala astrologers.> What is> > > > > >>>> the> > > > > >>>>> result if an important planet is posited in different> signs in Rasi> > > > > >>>>> and Bhava.> > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>> For eg. Jupiter an important planet for Scorpio Lagna> placed in> > > > > >>>>> Makara in Rasi (debilitation) and in Dhanu in Bhava (own> sign).> > > > > >>> & g!> > >t; How> > > > > >>>>> do we analyze this. In contin uation to our earlier> discussions on> > > > > >>>>> Retrogression, in this example Jupiter is Retrograde and> placed in> > > > > >>>>> Meena in Navamsa. How much is the effect of> debilitation/own sign> > > > > >>>> in> > > > > >>>>> this case.> > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>> I request you to give your views on Bhava vs Rasi> > > > > >>>>> differences/effects in general and also your view on the> above> > > > > >>>>> example.> > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>> Last but not the least I am eagerly waiting for your next> file on> > > > > >>>>> birth time rectification.> > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>> Thanks & regards,> > > > > >>>>> Kannan> > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>> & !> > >gt;> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 6, 2007 Report Share Posted July 6, 2007 Dear Sunil Om Datta Guru I am not able to follow what u are talking about, did u address a mail to me in this list. If so I did not see it, i use only web page to see mails of any list so when i come online to only then i can see mails which I just browse through in 5 mins. My apologies if i missed ur mail. Regards SJ , " sunil nair " <astro_tellerkerala wrote: > > > hare rama krishna, > > dear sunil john , > > u closed the discussion with u will not reply not open the mails --so > is it applicable to me also > > waiting for ur response. > > and re read my mail > > regrds sunil nair > > om shreem mahalxmai namah. > > > , " jjnet2000_in " > jjnet2000_in@ wrote: > > > > Om Datta Guru > > > > Dear Robert, > > Though I had walked off this list long back due to the racist remark > but > > was compelled to write in ur defense as I know u are a genuine seeker > of > > this shastra. This mail is not intended just for u :- > > I feel we have a different problem its not about whether Outer Planets > > were written by our sages but do we have the Open Mind to understand > > jyotish, is it a growing science. Do the planets behave differently in > > different yugas (clues to this have been given in many old books), so > > should we alter our thinking. > > > > 1) We do not have even 1-5 % of the ancient books so debating if outer > > planets were written in the old books is fruitless especially since > > there are hundreds of books in libraries and at homes which are yet to > > be translated. Even the few nadis with me are gathering dust though i > > have begged Good scholars of sanskrit to translate it and they are > > unable to do so. Sometimes I feel if Nadi work is meant for everyone > > e.g Santhanam died all of a sudden when he had almost finished Bhrigu > > Nadi & who ever has touched Bhrigu Nadi has faced unsurmountable > > problems. I wish he had brought it out, he had said all works aside > and > > Bhrigu Nadi in one side, thats the worth of it. > > > > 2) If KNRao challenged the marathi astrologers this must be taken in > > another context, we must understand Rao Sahebs strength & weakness > first > > (this is not meant to demean him) - one of his own mentor in mundane > > astrology the Late Hardeo Sharma Trivedi used to use Outer Planets > > fantastically in his predictions and is till date one of the greatest > > predictors of mundane astrology. > > > > 3) Ramans grandfather often said to him forget the shloka business see > > what works that is True astrology, so running behind shlokas for it is > > useless. Then even if shlokas are presented whats the use, can anyone > > today interpret it, I have not found a true knowledgeable guy in > > sanskrit. > > > > 4) Current breed of scholars are self appointed scholars who have zero > > level of scientific mind and do not test any principle. thousands of > > shlokas do not work what do they have to say to that. So should we > > discard all the works of the Rishis who wrote it. Rishis do not agree > to > > the effects of even something as a planet in a house, different > opinions > > among rishis > > > > 5) The Late P.S.Iyer whom Rao Saheb also says was one of the most > > fantastic astrologer used to predict to the DAY every event, he used > to > > use the Outer Planets. > > > > 6) 4 hrs from Bombay is a person still alive who was brought up in a > > tradition where books from Lopi Script were handed down to him, for 25 > > yrs he was taught astrology and only after that he was asked to see > his > > first chart & practice jyotish (the money he takes is in form of > > donation, he does not see the amount given & donates it full). I have > > not met an astrologer like him, of all the astrologers i have met and > > interacted he is the only guy I know who can UNLOCK a chart. He was > > introduced to me by an Ex-SJC Mumbai person and I have vowed not to > take > > current breed of astrologers to him, they do not deserve him. I always > > say if people on the lists from india knew astrology they would not > have > > spare time to write here as flock of people would be outside their > > house. This man has a daily visitation of 100 people and he drives the > > rest away. He uses Outer Planets and his parampara is of more than 14 > > generations, at that time the world did not even know of Outer > Planets. > > I asked him to share the shlokas from his family, he said can u or > > anyone read them, then do u all have the ability to decode it, whats > the > > use of getting into scholarly mode that 'Only when u see the shloka u > > would believe, forget shlokas test the technique only then u would > learn > > astrology' - he told me. > > > > I have begged him to come out with a book but he refuses, this vidya > is > > only misused by egoists so he does not want a curse of sharing that > > knowledge to such readers. He is a DashaGranthi Brahmin btw, my > efforts > > still continue in him bringing at least a basic book. > > > > 7) Our astrology in current form is useless in a deeper sense, we > > realise that when we read ChandraKala Nadi (Devekerelam) & to a > certain > > extent Bhavartha Ratnakara for e.g > > > > 8) Narendra Desai the greatest astrologer to walk into america as per > > most senior astrologers in america had seen the text of Vasistha Nadi > > wherein Outer Planets was mentioned and we all know how fantastic a > > predictor he was, ofcourse his breed will never be born again. People > on > > lists will sit here whole life arguing that Outer Planets are not > > mentioned in classics but no one has the guts to test it on 100 charts > > with an open mind. Only when we test we realise what we are missing > and > > alas we say we hide behind Parasara's back as if we know everything > that > > he said. We cant even interpret his shlokas well. If we read first 2 > > chapters of BPHS and UNDERSTAND what he is trying to say (which is > > understandable as it is in clear english) we would know that he is not > > going to reveal everything that is astrology at all so its useless to > > hide behind his back. > > Shri Narendra Desai had a saying 'Do not listen to what people say, > this > > Uranus works and it works too well'. > > > > 9) People say that the issue is not if outerplanets takes 100 yrs blah > > blah to move from a sign, what about Jupiter it takes only 1 yr, can > we > > say with all honesty that we understand how Jupiter is going to give > > results in a chart or say any other planet in jyotish - ofcourse not > we > > do not know Jyotish as to even what Jyotish Is - this is the truth and > > can be found out when we meet masters who had some knowledge of this > > science. > > > > 10) Jyotish is an internal Sadhana which requires Bhakti of the > highest > > order and people who are argumentative, have anger, have jealousy, > want > > to put others down, have ego, have need for fame or getting themselves > > shown as scholars will never understand it in this or any lifetime. > Even > > Parasara and other sages have mentioned the above criteria, I guess > they > > were not fools. This vidya is of Sanyasi's and not common man, anyone > > who has travelled in search of true jyotish n met masters will realise > > this statement as he will often find this answer staring right at his > > face. > > > > I appreciate people like u who have tested the outer planets in over > > hundred charts, u are far better off than us who only talk talk talk > or > > hide behind shlokas and we cant even test the shlokas that we know on > > 100 charts. > > > > To end this,' We do not understand what the sages have said so getting > > into arguments or discussions and says Sages said this or that is > > Absurdity' > > > > best wishes > > Sunil John > > Mumbai > > P.S: To others pls do not waste ur energy in replying to this mail, I > do > > not have the time or inclination to read it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Robert Koch rk@ > > wrote: > > > > > > Namah Shivaya > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > > > Dear Mr. Nair, > > > > > > Thank you for your post as well, which, although much less cynical > > > than the responses of Sreenadh-ji, poses some good points. I too > > > have argued for years since embarking on an ambitious study of > > > Jyotish in 1984 that Uranus, Neptune and Pluto have no place within > > > the practice of classical Jyotish. What naksatras do they rule? Who > > > is their Devata, etc.? But my original stoicism toward these planets > > > has changed due to undeniable experience of their > > > affects. Astrologers must bring different approaches to the table as > > > to the usefulness of these planets in actual astrological practice, > > > rather than endless parrot-like quoting of shastras in an effort to > > > dismiss them. There are those whose habit is to disable or ignore > > > new approaches based on scriptural and classical reference, and then > > > there are those who seek to find out in practice if they work or not > > > or are useful. I prefer to take the latter route frankly. > > > > > > Let me make my point more clear: I believe in the active and > > > enthusiastic efforts to try, research, and investigate the various > > > methods of astrology being put forth. If there is even an inkling of > > > reference to Vasishta Nadi, or Kapila Nadi as to Uranus, Neptune and > > > Pluto, or if stalwarts in the field for whom I have great respect > (as > > > an example, Sri Chandulal S. Patel who did extensive research on the > > > use of outer planets) then I personally will not sit on my hands > > > until I have seen their effect in at least 100 charts. The fact is, > > > that if transit Pluto moves over the lagna or Moon of the chart, you > > > will not be able to deny the life-changing events and affects that > > > such transits bring forward. This has been my observation testing it > > > in hundreds of charts in a period of 23 years. There are various > > > progression methods too practiced by both Nadi astrologers as well > as > > > western astrologers, and these will bring very specific events to > our > > > awareness referencing these outer planets as well. > > > > > > However, you are right, if Sri K.N. Rao challenged some Marathi > > > astrologers to demonstrate their researches on outer planets, then > > > the latter should have come forward to prove their point. > > > > > > Anyway, so how will we use our classical knowledge then? To dismiss > > > or negate, or to rejuvenate the energy of discovery by trial and > > > error, research and investigation? It is all up to the disposition > > > of the individual astrologer and how he/she sees the learning and > > > practice of this great science. If I think for a moment that my > > > technique or knowledge is sufficient, and all the while I have not > > > practically tested even what I do know on a multiplicity of charts, > > > then Jyotish becomes a dry, intellectual hobby at best. Then it only > > > serves to reinforce the ego of the astrologer, rather than becoming > a > > > vehicle to uplift and enlighten others. If, however, the astrologer > > > continually tries, tests, and researches, then he keeps the science > > > alive and you may be surprised how many secrets are revealed to a > > > person with that attitude toward his practice. > > > > > > With best regards, and no disrespect intended toward anyone - > > > > > > Robert > > > > > > At 01:48 AM 7/5/2007, you wrote: > > > > > > >Hare rama krishna, > > > > > > > >dear robertji, > > > > > > > > Thanks for your post. > > > > > > > >But as seekers of truth and holders of light called jyothisha > > > >should we go by some stray references which quoted by some one in > > > >some group or we shud look for its textual reference.in tamil or > > > >sanskrit ,as most of naadis in this laungage and quote the page > > > >--line of concerned books. > > > > > > > >my observations. > > > > > > > >1)this planets stays more years and transit in ones life is > > > >negligible as almost 100 or more years it stays in one rasi > > > > > > > > 2) There is no graha --khetra allotted to this planets by vedic > > > > seers,like ucha ,swa or neecha . > > > > > > > >3)There is no dasa periods as its important in delination of > results. > > > > > > > >4) their nature ,karaka and frndly and enmy planets r not > identified > > > >again important in vedic style of delination of results. > > > > > > > >And i read --i dont hav text--in varaha hora --varahmihira > describes > > > >--there are 100s crores of planets are there but we take only 7 > > > >planets and 2 chaya grahs ( its some thing like grhanam shatha kodi > > > >---- like this --may be sree nath can help me ),as only this > planets > > > >can influence in ecliptical path of earth . > > > > > > > >Also one naadi astrology people under the team of sri Taneja of > > > >delhi uses this planets as i was told he was taught this method by > > > >one J C LUTRA ,again i dont know whats their sourse,and i could not > > > >test it as they use differrent ayanamsha and charges 15000/- or > some > > > >for software ,so i leav it > > > > > > > >Once in one astro conference held and chaired by BV raman ,sri KN > > > >rao challenged all marathi astrologers to prove those who uses > extra > > > >sataurnian planets ,all shied away ,most of them were famous > > astrologers > > > > > > > >i heard in mahabharath vedvyas mentiones indra varuna,rudra dring > > > >the time of war --yes i dont hav that part with me now > > > > > > > >But its more mundane as a bloody distructive war. > > > > > > > >pls produce textual support. > > > > > > > >regrds sunil nair > > > > > > > >om shreem mahalaxmai namah. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Robert Koch rk@ > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Prafulla, > > > > > > > > > > At 08:56 AM 7/4/2007, you wrote: > > > > > >Dear Sir > > > > > > > > > > > >Harshal, Neptune etc are referred in one of the nadi..I do not > > > > > >remember..one of the jyotish forum member shared that on > another > > > > > >thread in another forum. > > > > > > > > > > Yes, according to my sources also, Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto > are > > > > > taught in Vasishta and Kapila Nadis. > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > Robert Koch > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > >http://www.prafulla.net > > > > > > > > > > > > " The right to be heard does not automatically include the right > > to > > > > > >be taken seriously. " > > > > > >************************************************ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > navagraha@ > > > > > > > ! Wed, 4 Jul 2007 09:02:47 -0400 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Re: Re: Importance of > > Bhava Chart > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Sreenadh, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are astrologers in Maharashatra that give absolutely > > brilliant > > > > > > > predictions. They use Hershel, Neptune etc. Rarely use > dashas. > > I agree > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > you that Hershel and neptune have no classical standing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I personally do not think hershel and neptune don't need to > be > > used to > > > > > > > give > > > > > > > predictions. Quest for Pramana in classics is the way to go. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 7/4/07, Sreenadh sreesog@ wrote: > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> Dear Prafulla ji, > > > > > > >> I don't know. That is not my domai! n as well. I am after > > ancient > > > > > > >> Indian astrology - in a continuing search for the > originals. > > That is > > > > > > >> the only thing I can say. > > > > > > >> Love, > > > > > > >> Sreenadh > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> --- In > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40yaho\ \ > \ > > ogroups.com>, > > > > > > >> Prafulla Gang > > > > > > >> jyotish@ wrote: > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> Dear Sreenadh ji > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> I am not familiar with history of jyotish and sanskrit as > > well. But > > > > > > >> In my observation - most traditionalist in northern India > use > > bhava > > > > > > >> chalit chart for quite accurate predictions. If it does not > > make > > > > > > >> sense, then how come predictions are so accurate? > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > >>> http://www.prafulla.net > > > > > > & ! > > > >gt;>> > > > > > > >>> " The right to be heard does not automatically include the > > right to > > > > > > >> be taken seriously. " > > > > > > >>> ************************************************ > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>>> sreesog@ > > > > > > >>>> Tue, 03 Jul 2007 05:59:46 -0000 > > > > > > >>>> To: > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40yaho\ \ > \ > > ogroups.com> > > > > > > >>>> Re: Importance of > Bhava > > Chart > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>>> Dear Kannan ji, > > > > > > >>>> There is " no seperate bhava chart " ; the Rasi chart itself > > is the > > > > > > >>>> bhava chart. Considering bhava chart as a seperate entity > > originated > > > > > ! > >>>> after the period of Sripati of 10th centuary AD. It is > > misleading > > > > > > >>>> concept similar to considering Navamsa as a seperate > chart > > not > > > > > > >>>> supported by ancient sages. > > > > > > >>>> You can find more info regarding the same from the > > following file > > > > > > >>>> present in the file section of the group. > > > > > > >>>> URL: > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > Sreenadh/ > > > > > > >>>> Signs and Houses.pdf > > > > > > >>>> As you could see there is no point in discussing > > non-existent things > > > > > > >>>> which are not supported by the sages; as of me I trying > to > > > > understand > > > > > > >>>> what they taught, as per their own words. [And therefore > > any > > > > > > >>>> discussion on Bhava, considering it not the same as sign, > > is not my > > > > > > >>>> domain] > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > & ! > > > >gt; >>>> ==> > > > > > > >>>>> For eg. Jupiter an important planet for Scorpio Lagna > > placed in > > > > > > >>>>> Makara in Rasi (debilitation) and in Dhanu in Bhava (own > > sign). > > > > > > >>>> <== > > > > > > >>>> As you could see, this is absurd. For Scorpio Lagna, > Ju > > in > > > > > > >>>> Capricorn (Makara) rasi, is in 3rd house (bhava), and is > > > > in Capricorn > > > > > > >>>> sign. (Sign and house being the same). This is the > ancient > > concept; > > > > > > >>>> and the result derivation would be as per that. > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>>> ==> > > > > > > >>>>> In continuation to our earlier discussions on > > > > > > >>>>> Retrogression, in this example Jupiter is Retrograde and > > placed in > > > > > > >>>>> Meena in Navamsa. How much is the effect of > > debilitation/own sign > > > > > ! > >>>>> in this case. > > > > > > >>>> <== > > > > > > >>>> That is an entirely different subject (i.e. how to > > interpret Sign > > > > > > >>>> and Navamsa results) and would discussed later. > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>>> ==> > > > > > > >>>>> Last but not the least I am eagerly waiting for your > next > > file on > > > > > > >>>>> birth time rectification. > > > > > > >>>> <== > > > > > > >>>> Yes, this is one thing in the urgent task list. I will > > try to > > > > > > >>>> complete it by next Saturday or prior to that. > > > > > > >>>> Love, > > > > > > >>>> Sreenadh > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>>> --- In > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40yaho\ \ > \ > > ogroups.com>, > > > > > > >> " kankan_73 " > > > > > > >>> & g! > > > >t; <kankan_73@> wrote: > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > >>>>> Dear Sreenadh ji, > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > >>>>> Please tell me something on the importance of Bhava > Chart. > > Do this > > > > > > >>>>> chart has importance like Navamsa. I have seen > mentioning > > of bhava > > > > > > >>>>> position (if different from Rasi Chart) while mentioning > > Planetary > > > > > > >>>>> results in old Jathakams written by Kerala astrologers. > > What is > > > > > > >>>> the > > > > > > >>>>> result if an important planet is posited in different > > signs in Rasi > > > > > > >>>>> and Bhava. > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > >>>>> For eg. Jupiter an important planet for Scorpio Lagna > > placed in > > > > > > >>>>> Makara in Rasi (debilitation) and in Dhanu in Bhava (own > > sign). > > > > > > >>> & g! > > > >t; How > > > > > > >>>>> do we analyze this. In contin uation to our earlier > > discussions on > > > > > > >>>>> Retrogression, in this example Jupiter is Retrograde and > > placed in > > > > > > >>>>> Meena in Navamsa. How much is the effect of > > debilitation/own sign > > > > > > >>>> in > > > > > > >>>>> this case. > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > >>>>> I request you to give your views on Bhava vs Rasi > > > > > > >>>>> differences/effects in general and also your view on the > > above > > > > > > >>>>> example. > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > >>>>> Last but not the least I am eagerly waiting for your > next > > file on > > > > > > >>>>> birth time rectification. > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > >>>>> Thanks & regards, > > > > > > >>>>> Kannan > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>> & ! > > > >gt; > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 6, 2007 Report Share Posted July 6, 2007 Dear Sunil john ji, You may read it or not. But thanks for the good mail. Love, Sreenadh , " jjnet2000_in " <jjnet2000_in wrote: > > Om Datta Guru > > Dear Robert, > Though I had walked off this list long back due to the racist remark but > was compelled to write in ur defense as I know u are a genuine seeker of > this shastra. This mail is not intended just for u :- > I feel we have a different problem its not about whether Outer Planets > were written by our sages but do we have the Open Mind to understand > jyotish, is it a growing science. Do the planets behave differently in > different yugas (clues to this have been given in many old books), so > should we alter our thinking. > > 1) We do not have even 1-5 % of the ancient books so debating if outer > planets were written in the old books is fruitless especially since > there are hundreds of books in libraries and at homes which are yet to > be translated. Even the few nadis with me are gathering dust though i > have begged Good scholars of sanskrit to translate it and they are > unable to do so. Sometimes I feel if Nadi work is meant for everyone > e.g Santhanam died all of a sudden when he had almost finished Bhrigu > Nadi & who ever has touched Bhrigu Nadi has faced unsurmountable > problems. I wish he had brought it out, he had said all works aside and > Bhrigu Nadi in one side, thats the worth of it. > > 2) If KNRao challenged the marathi astrologers this must be taken in > another context, we must understand Rao Sahebs strength & weakness first > (this is not meant to demean him) - one of his own mentor in mundane > astrology the Late Hardeo Sharma Trivedi used to use Outer Planets > fantastically in his predictions and is till date one of the greatest > predictors of mundane astrology. > > 3) Ramans grandfather often said to him forget the shloka business see > what works that is True astrology, so running behind shlokas for it is > useless. Then even if shlokas are presented whats the use, can anyone > today interpret it, I have not found a true knowledgeable guy in > sanskrit. > > 4) Current breed of scholars are self appointed scholars who have zero > level of scientific mind and do not test any principle. thousands of > shlokas do not work what do they have to say to that. So should we > discard all the works of the Rishis who wrote it. Rishis do not agree to > the effects of even something as a planet in a house, different opinions > among rishis > > 5) The Late P.S.Iyer whom Rao Saheb also says was one of the most > fantastic astrologer used to predict to the DAY every event, he used to > use the Outer Planets. > > 6) 4 hrs from Bombay is a person still alive who was brought up in a > tradition where books from Lopi Script were handed down to him, for 25 > yrs he was taught astrology and only after that he was asked to see his > first chart & practice jyotish (the money he takes is in form of > donation, he does not see the amount given & donates it full). I have > not met an astrologer like him, of all the astrologers i have met and > interacted he is the only guy I know who can UNLOCK a chart. He was > introduced to me by an Ex-SJC Mumbai person and I have vowed not to take > current breed of astrologers to him, they do not deserve him. I always > say if people on the lists from india knew astrology they would not have > spare time to write here as flock of people would be outside their > house. This man has a daily visitation of 100 people and he drives the > rest away. He uses Outer Planets and his parampara is of more than 14 > generations, at that time the world did not even know of Outer Planets. > I asked him to share the shlokas from his family, he said can u or > anyone read them, then do u all have the ability to decode it, whats the > use of getting into scholarly mode that 'Only when u see the shloka u > would believe, forget shlokas test the technique only then u would learn > astrology' - he told me. > > I have begged him to come out with a book but he refuses, this vidya is > only misused by egoists so he does not want a curse of sharing that > knowledge to such readers. He is a DashaGranthi Brahmin btw, my efforts > still continue in him bringing at least a basic book. > > 7) Our astrology in current form is useless in a deeper sense, we > realise that when we read ChandraKala Nadi (Devekerelam) & to a certain > extent Bhavartha Ratnakara for e.g > > 8) Narendra Desai the greatest astrologer to walk into america as per > most senior astrologers in america had seen the text of Vasistha Nadi > wherein Outer Planets was mentioned and we all know how fantastic a > predictor he was, ofcourse his breed will never be born again. People on > lists will sit here whole life arguing that Outer Planets are not > mentioned in classics but no one has the guts to test it on 100 charts > with an open mind. Only when we test we realise what we are missing and > alas we say we hide behind Parasara's back as if we know everything that > he said. We cant even interpret his shlokas well. If we read first 2 > chapters of BPHS and UNDERSTAND what he is trying to say (which is > understandable as it is in clear english) we would know that he is not > going to reveal everything that is astrology at all so its useless to > hide behind his back. > Shri Narendra Desai had a saying 'Do not listen to what people say, this > Uranus works and it works too well'. > > 9) People say that the issue is not if outerplanets takes 100 yrs blah > blah to move from a sign, what about Jupiter it takes only 1 yr, can we > say with all honesty that we understand how Jupiter is going to give > results in a chart or say any other planet in jyotish - ofcourse not we > do not know Jyotish as to even what Jyotish Is - this is the truth and > can be found out when we meet masters who had some knowledge of this > science. > > 10) Jyotish is an internal Sadhana which requires Bhakti of the highest > order and people who are argumentative, have anger, have jealousy, want > to put others down, have ego, have need for fame or getting themselves > shown as scholars will never understand it in this or any lifetime. Even > Parasara and other sages have mentioned the above criteria, I guess they > were not fools. This vidya is of Sanyasi's and not common man, anyone > who has travelled in search of true jyotish n met masters will realise > this statement as he will often find this answer staring right at his > face. > > I appreciate people like u who have tested the outer planets in over > hundred charts, u are far better off than us who only talk talk talk or > hide behind shlokas and we cant even test the shlokas that we know on > 100 charts. > > To end this,' We do not understand what the sages have said so getting > into arguments or discussions and says Sages said this or that is > Absurdity' > > best wishes > Sunil John > Mumbai > P.S: To others pls do not waste ur energy in replying to this mail, I do > not have the time or inclination to read it. > > , Robert Koch <rk@> > wrote: > > > > Namah Shivaya > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > Dear Mr. Nair, > > > > Thank you for your post as well, which, although much less cynical > > than the responses of Sreenadh-ji, poses some good points. I too > > have argued for years since embarking on an ambitious study of > > Jyotish in 1984 that Uranus, Neptune and Pluto have no place within > > the practice of classical Jyotish. What naksatras do they rule? Who > > is their Devata, etc.? But my original stoicism toward these planets > > has changed due to undeniable experience of their > > affects. Astrologers must bring different approaches to the table as > > to the usefulness of these planets in actual astrological practice, > > rather than endless parrot-like quoting of shastras in an effort to > > dismiss them. There are those whose habit is to disable or ignore > > new approaches based on scriptural and classical reference, and then > > there are those who seek to find out in practice if they work or not > > or are useful. I prefer to take the latter route frankly. > > > > Let me make my point more clear: I believe in the active and > > enthusiastic efforts to try, research, and investigate the various > > methods of astrology being put forth. If there is even an inkling of > > reference to Vasishta Nadi, or Kapila Nadi as to Uranus, Neptune and > > Pluto, or if stalwarts in the field for whom I have great respect (as > > an example, Sri Chandulal S. Patel who did extensive research on the > > use of outer planets) then I personally will not sit on my hands > > until I have seen their effect in at least 100 charts. The fact is, > > that if transit Pluto moves over the lagna or Moon of the chart, you > > will not be able to deny the life-changing events and affects that > > such transits bring forward. This has been my observation testing it > > in hundreds of charts in a period of 23 years. There are various > > progression methods too practiced by both Nadi astrologers as well as > > western astrologers, and these will bring very specific events to our > > awareness referencing these outer planets as well. > > > > However, you are right, if Sri K.N. Rao challenged some Marathi > > astrologers to demonstrate their researches on outer planets, then > > the latter should have come forward to prove their point. > > > > Anyway, so how will we use our classical knowledge then? To dismiss > > or negate, or to rejuvenate the energy of discovery by trial and > > error, research and investigation? It is all up to the disposition > > of the individual astrologer and how he/she sees the learning and > > practice of this great science. If I think for a moment that my > > technique or knowledge is sufficient, and all the while I have not > > practically tested even what I do know on a multiplicity of charts, > > then Jyotish becomes a dry, intellectual hobby at best. Then it only > > serves to reinforce the ego of the astrologer, rather than becoming a > > vehicle to uplift and enlighten others. If, however, the astrologer > > continually tries, tests, and researches, then he keeps the science > > alive and you may be surprised how many secrets are revealed to a > > person with that attitude toward his practice. > > > > With best regards, and no disrespect intended toward anyone - > > > > Robert > > > > At 01:48 AM 7/5/2007, you wrote: > > > > >Hare rama krishna, > > > > > >dear robertji, > > > > > > Thanks for your post. > > > > > >But as seekers of truth and holders of light called jyothisha > > >should we go by some stray references which quoted by some one in > > >some group or we shud look for its textual reference.in tamil or > > >sanskrit ,as most of naadis in this laungage and quote the page > > >--line of concerned books. > > > > > >my observations. > > > > > >1)this planets stays more years and transit in ones life is > > >negligible as almost 100 or more years it stays in one rasi > > > > > > 2) There is no graha --khetra allotted to this planets by vedic > > > seers,like ucha ,swa or neecha . > > > > > >3)There is no dasa periods as its important in delination of results. > > > > > >4) their nature ,karaka and frndly and enmy planets r not identified > > >again important in vedic style of delination of results. > > > > > >And i read --i dont hav text--in varaha hora --varahmihira describes > > >--there are 100s crores of planets are there but we take only 7 > > >planets and 2 chaya grahs ( its some thing like grhanam shatha kodi > > >---- like this --may be sree nath can help me ),as only this planets > > >can influence in ecliptical path of earth . > > > > > >Also one naadi astrology people under the team of sri Taneja of > > >delhi uses this planets as i was told he was taught this method by > > >one J C LUTRA ,again i dont know whats their sourse,and i could not > > >test it as they use differrent ayanamsha and charges 15000/- or some > > >for software ,so i leav it > > > > > >Once in one astro conference held and chaired by BV raman ,sri KN > > >rao challenged all marathi astrologers to prove those who uses extra > > >sataurnian planets ,all shied away ,most of them were famous > astrologers > > > > > >i heard in mahabharath vedvyas mentiones indra varuna,rudra dring > > >the time of war --yes i dont hav that part with me now > > > > > >But its more mundane as a bloody distructive war. > > > > > >pls produce textual support. > > > > > >regrds sunil nair > > > > > >om shreem mahalaxmai namah. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Robert Koch rk@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > Namaste Prafulla, > > > > > > > > At 08:56 AM 7/4/2007, you wrote: > > > > >Dear Sir > > > > > > > > > >Harshal, Neptune etc are referred in one of the nadi..I do not > > > > >remember..one of the jyotish forum member shared that on another > > > > >thread in another forum. > > > > > > > > Yes, according to my sources also, Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto are > > > > taught in Vasishta and Kapila Nadis. > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > Robert Koch > > > > > > > > > > > > >regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > >http://www.prafulla.net > > > > > > > > > > " The right to be heard does not automatically include the right > to > > > > >be taken seriously. " > > > > >************************************************ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > navagraha@ > > > > > > ! Wed, 4 Jul 2007 09:02:47 -0400 > > > > > > > > > > > > Re: Re: Importance of > Bhava Chart > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Sreenadh, > > > > > > > > > > > > There are astrologers in Maharashatra that give absolutely > brilliant > > > > > > predictions. They use Hershel, Neptune etc. Rarely use dashas. > I agree > > > > > > with > > > > > > you that Hershel and neptune have no classical standing. > > > > > > > > > > > > I personally do not think hershel and neptune don't need to be > used to > > > > > > give > > > > > > predictions. Quest for Pramana in classics is the way to go. > > > > > > > > > > > > ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 7/4/07, Sreenadh sreesog@ wrote: > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Dear Prafulla ji, > > > > > >> I don't know. That is not my domai! n as well. I am after > ancient > > > > > >> Indian astrology - in a continuing search for the originals. > That is > > > > > >> the only thing I can say. > > > > > >> Love, > > > > > >> Sreenadh > > > > > >> > > > > > >> --- In > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > <%40yaho\ > ogroups.com>, > > > > > >> Prafulla Gang > > > > > >> jyotish@ wrote: > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> Dear Sreenadh ji > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> I am not familiar with history of jyotish and sanskrit as > well. But > > > > > >> In my observation - most traditionalist in northern India use > bhava > > > > > >> chalit chart for quite accurate predictions. If it does not > make > > > > > >> sense, then how come predictions are so accurate? > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > >>> http://www.prafulla.net > > > > > & ! > > >gt;>> > > > > > >>> " The right to be heard does not automatically include the > right to > > > > > >> be taken seriously. " > > > > > >>> ************************************************ > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> sreesog@ > > > > > >>>> Tue, 03 Jul 2007 05:59:46 -0000 > > > > > >>>> To: > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > <%40yaho\ > ogroups.com> > > > > > >>>> Re: Importance of Bhava > Chart > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> Dear Kannan ji, > > > > > >>>> There is " no seperate bhava chart " ; the Rasi chart itself > is the > > > > > >>>> bhava chart. Considering bhava chart as a seperate entity > originated > > > > ! > >>>> after the period of Sripati of 10th centuary AD. It is > misleading > > > > > >>>> concept similar to considering Navamsa as a seperate chart > not > > > > > >>>> supported by ancient sages. > > > > > >>>> You can find more info regarding the same from the > following file > > > > > >>>> present in the file section of the group. > > > > > >>>> URL: > > > > > >>>> > > > > Sreenadh/ > > > > > >>>> Signs and Houses.pdf > > > > > >>>> As you could see there is no point in discussing > non-existent things > > > > > >>>> which are not supported by the sages; as of me I trying to > > > understand > > > > > >>>> what they taught, as per their own words. [And therefore > any > > > > > >>>> discussion on Bhava, considering it not the same as sign, > is not my > > > > > >>>> domain] > > > > > >>>> > > > > & ! > > >gt; >>>> ==> > > > > > >>>>> For eg. Jupiter an important planet for Scorpio Lagna > placed in > > > > > >>>>> Makara in Rasi (debilitation) and in Dhanu in Bhava (own > sign). > > > > > >>>> <== > > > > > >>>> As you could see, this is absurd. For Scorpio Lagna, Ju > in > > > > > >>>> Capricorn (Makara) rasi, is in 3rd house (bhava), and is > > > in Capricorn > > > > > >>>> sign. (Sign and house being the same). This is the ancient > concept; > > > > > >>>> and the result derivation would be as per that. > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> ==> > > > > > >>>>> In continuation to our earlier discussions on > > > > > >>>>> Retrogression, in this example Jupiter is Retrograde and > placed in > > > > > >>>>> Meena in Navamsa. How much is the effect of > debilitation/own sign > > > > ! > >>>>> in this case. > > > > > >>>> <== > > > > > >>>> That is an entirely different subject (i.e. how to > interpret Sign > > > > > >>>> and Navamsa results) and would discussed later. > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> ==> > > > > > >>>>> Last but not the least I am eagerly waiting for your next > file on > > > > > >>>>> birth time rectification. > > > > > >>>> <== > > > > > >>>> Yes, this is one thing in the urgent task list. I will > try to > > > > > >>>> complete it by next Saturday or prior to that. > > > > > >>>> Love, > > > > > >>>> Sreenadh > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> --- In > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > <%40yaho\ > ogroups.com>, > > > > > >> " kankan_73 " > > > > > >>> & g! > > >t; <kankan_73@> wrote: > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>>> Dear Sreenadh ji, > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>>> Please tell me something on the importance of Bhava Chart. > Do this > > > > > >>>>> chart has importance like Navamsa. I have seen mentioning > of bhava > > > > > >>>>> position (if different from Rasi Chart) while mentioning > Planetary > > > > > >>>>> results in old Jathakams written by Kerala astrologers. > What is > > > > > >>>> the > > > > > >>>>> result if an important planet is posited in different > signs in Rasi > > > > > >>>>> and Bhava. > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>>> For eg. Jupiter an important planet for Scorpio Lagna > placed in > > > > > >>>>> Makara in Rasi (debilitation) and in Dhanu in Bhava (own > sign). > > > > > >>> & g! > > >t; How > > > > > >>>>> do we analyze this. In contin uation to our earlier > discussions on > > > > > >>>>> Retrogression, in this example Jupiter is Retrograde and > placed in > > > > > >>>>> Meena in Navamsa. How much is the effect of > debilitation/own sign > > > > > >>>> in > > > > > >>>>> this case. > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>>> I request you to give your views on Bhava vs Rasi > > > > > >>>>> differences/effects in general and also your view on the > above > > > > > >>>>> example. > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>>> Last but not the least I am eagerly waiting for your next > file on > > > > > >>>>> birth time rectification. > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>>> Thanks & regards, > > > > > >>>>> Kannan > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>> & ! > > >gt; > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 7, 2007 Report Share Posted July 7, 2007 Hare ramakrishna, dear sunil john and robertji, I must point out here that this a forum of learning .And no body is here perfect in the art ,if so why we should join here as not very many people seeking predictions are entertained here .And so future business prospects r not there. Let us Not be like some 2 religious enthusiastics debating whose religion is better . Here the main discussion is whether the outer saturnian planets can be used in individual charts and predictions and how its behaving in various charts ,if so how we can arrive at .And also please not that no body is here right now interested in mundane as first every body is after their own fate then only national or international approach starts and its one of the discarded area as lack of encourage ment from public or government . These planets being used in mundane prediction cannot be ruled out as it takes long time to move out of a rasi and may be influencing some part of world or triggerring some events or being some planets as big as all the other planets put togetther may be influencing yugas also . Yes many pointed out That this extra saturnian planets is not used Vedic Astrology and many popular naadis .some r pointed that its used in some naadis and its mentioned in mahabharath period onwards.All these points atleast i know ,only question is how can we use in kundalies In vedic astrology and naadi astrology i find the people who use planets other than this planets has advantage of allready revealed things by rishis and sidhas. Now coming to point all other planets has well established rules for predictions formulated by rishis. Like all planets they given karakatwa,signs ,moolkshetra ,ucha ,neecha signs ,transit periods ,and its effects ,charactrestics ,ruling parts in human body ,in face and in hand ,hand lines.and their behavior ,ruling classes of people ,ruling areas ibn india and world,ruling laungauges,planetarydevatas,ruling nakhsatras,swaroopas ,mantras,gunas,ruling metals,their taste,flowers,animals ,plants,trees,professions ruled by this planets,perfumes,raagas in music ,body parts,vastu ,human relation ship like sun is father. its colors ,precious stones,qualities like anger,humours like vat ,pitta. seasons,castes like working groups.Pancha bhootas (ruling elements like fire ,earth),directions like north ,west, diseases ,educational portfolios,vehicles,places of worship,their physical appearance,spices,house hold articles,their frndly planets and enmy planets and more important things is its dasa periods-----------these r the thing we need minimum to delinate results in prashan and charts in individual predictions. Now to sri.robertji ----since u used in testing in many charts now pluto is moving tru dhanus rasi --so whats the effect for people who is dhanus(sagitarius ) rasi and lagna and moon sign --is it positive and negetive ,so readers can test it and we will come to comfortable conclusion.What are the effects u said --as u said they feel the change. Now to sri sunil john U said abt some savants of astro uses in predictions --what method ,absense of that how we can be for sure . May be hardeo sharma uses --but in mundane but my information is he is from ujjain school of astrology propounded by varahamihira and he uses lot of secret chakras ,P S iyyer i doubt as he is from pure kerala paramapara --still i am yet to confront some one who uses these planets in kerala with parampara techniqs.In kerala i find various other techniqs in astro . U see KAS,KP and sistems appraoch all of them demonstrated there own techniq and nothing is hidden from readers or practisioners ,and they r not telling u r impure and u r not entitled to get this knowledge .Among them atleast this KAS-ashta varga astrologers are saying its rishi proktha knowledge Your reference abt that marathi astrologer is good and keep ur vow not show any astrologer students to him --good and fine But dont high lite that he charges nothing and donates evrything he lives on air and his bills are paid automaticaly ---i am yet to find such a spiritual personality in india since budha ( who was begging---taking alms).I think atleast his data is un doubted and scietific and proved by historians.Yes i find one keralite jain lives on sun energy and he is a business man who charges for his services and goods--it is proved by NASA Also regrding santanams death ---no doubt its not curse of brigu --its society has not supported him and he was doing all from his pocket and by publishing books --even these days --u cannot cover any of ur expenses ,so may be personal problems or family problems as no body wants such father ,or husband who is a fool who waistes money and efforts to some unproductiv ventures ,as i heard it was a unnatural death.So do we need to spread anthaviswas. I recently heard one student of Mr .K N rao successfully find combination from brigu naadi to predict important events in life like marriage ,professions ups and downs and status ,children etc ,he is from rich back ground ,so muni brigu not cursed him . And u know --one american who translated yavana samhita --got 5 crore indian ruppes as sponsorship and i think that was guided by santanam --what he got being a spiritual indian . As far sanskrit if u want there r good pundits still there and only u pay him well as they need to support their families well and they has a right to liv a decent life . Please dont think -These r not aimed at any personal attack --i demands every body approach the subjuct with rational and intellectual approach and pls dont say u r cursed and no right to get knowledge and dont worry abt knowledge getting corrupted as no body can do after studying a subjuct for 20 or 25 years and so leav that tension aside -- I am till today find only one grp headed by sri Umang taneja doing successfully using these planets ,and they r ready to teach any body --and its not a close gaurded secret ,but i find they r using some yogas and not in dasa or transit with my one day interaction with him --he happily explained all techniqs and ready to reveal u any thing only my time barrier and lack of finance ( as they use differrent ayanamsa and i dont hav their software which cost around 15000 2 years back)stopped me .And he is not practising and only teaches u as he himself is a business man and his many sisyas already started doing practise.And since i am not under any oath i will guide any body to him and give his details or books Hope now we can demonstrate some methods other than --he was using,they r from 15 generation back - tall claims --so no head ache of this sloka business also ,as one ounce of experince is bettet than a ton of knowledge. Again i clarify here i am not writing this lines to hurt any body personaly and sunil john is my personal frnd ( i took that free dom here ).Where we discuss many other things abt jyothish privately also .This post is purely subjuct oriented --and i thought 2 days to write it --shud i do it or not and finaly decided to write . any body can reply this depends on their time availability and i am only interested to keep the subjuct alive . wishing u all the best regrds sunil nair om shreem mahalxami namah. , "jjnet2000_in" <jjnet2000_in wrote:>> Om Datta Guru> > Dear Robert,> Though I had walked off this list long back due to the racist remark but> was compelled to write in ur defense as I know u are a genuine seeker of> this shastra. This mail is not intended just for u :-> I feel we have a different problem its not about whether Outer Planets> were written by our sages but do we have the Open Mind to understand> jyotish, is it a growing science. Do the planets behave differently in> different yugas (clues to this have been given in many old books), so> should we alter our thinking.> > 1) We do not have even 1-5 % of the ancient books so debating if outer> planets were written in the old books is fruitless especially since> there are hundreds of books in libraries and at homes which are yet to> be translated. Even the few nadis with me are gathering dust though i> have begged Good scholars of sanskrit to translate it and they are> unable to do so. Sometimes I feel if Nadi work is meant for everyone> e.g Santhanam died all of a sudden when he had almost finished Bhrigu> Nadi & who ever has touched Bhrigu Nadi has faced unsurmountable> problems. I wish he had brought it out, he had said all works aside and> Bhrigu Nadi in one side, thats the worth of it.> > 2) If KNRao challenged the marathi astrologers this must be taken in> another context, we must understand Rao Sahebs strength & weakness first> (this is not meant to demean him) - one of his own mentor in mundane> astrology the Late Hardeo Sharma Trivedi used to use Outer Planets> fantastically in his predictions and is till date one of the greatest> predictors of mundane astrology.> > 3) Ramans grandfather often said to him forget the shloka business see> what works that is True astrology, so running behind shlokas for it is> useless. Then even if shlokas are presented whats the use, can anyone> today interpret it, I have not found a true knowledgeable guy in> sanskrit.> > 4) Current breed of scholars are self appointed scholars who have zero> level of scientific mind and do not test any principle. thousands of> shlokas do not work what do they have to say to that. So should we> discard all the works of the Rishis who wrote it. Rishis do not agree to> the effects of even something as a planet in a house, different opinions> among rishis> > 5) The Late P.S.Iyer whom Rao Saheb also says was one of the most> fantastic astrologer used to predict to the DAY every event, he used to> use the Outer Planets.> > 6) 4 hrs from Bombay is a person still alive who was brought up in a> tradition where books from Lopi Script were handed down to him, for 25> yrs he was taught astrology and only after that he was asked to see his> first chart & practice jyotish (the money he takes is in form of> donation, he does not see the amount given & donates it full). I have> not met an astrologer like him, of all the astrologers i have met and> interacted he is the only guy I know who can UNLOCK a chart. He was> introduced to me by an Ex-SJC Mumbai person and I have vowed not to take> current breed of astrologers to him, they do not deserve him. I always> say if people on the lists from india knew astrology they would not have> spare time to write here as flock of people would be outside their> house. This man has a daily visitation of 100 people and he drives the> rest away. He uses Outer Planets and his parampara is of more than 14> generations, at that time the world did not even know of Outer Planets.> I asked him to share the shlokas from his family, he said can u or> anyone read them, then do u all have the ability to decode it, whats the> use of getting into scholarly mode that 'Only when u see the shloka u> would believe, forget shlokas test the technique only then u would learn> astrology' - he told me.> > I have begged him to come out with a book but he refuses, this vidya is> only misused by egoists so he does not want a curse of sharing that> knowledge to such readers. He is a DashaGranthi Brahmin btw, my efforts> still continue in him bringing at least a basic book.> > 7) Our astrology in current form is useless in a deeper sense, we> realise that when we read ChandraKala Nadi (Devekerelam) & to a certain> extent Bhavartha Ratnakara for e.g> > 8) Narendra Desai the greatest astrologer to walk into america as per> most senior astrologers in america had seen the text of Vasistha Nadi> wherein Outer Planets was mentioned and we all know how fantastic a> predictor he was, ofcourse his breed will never be born again. People on> lists will sit here whole life arguing that Outer Planets are not> mentioned in classics but no one has the guts to test it on 100 charts> with an open mind. Only when we test we realise what we are missing and> alas we say we hide behind Parasara's back as if we know everything that> he said. We cant even interpret his shlokas well. If we read first 2> chapters of BPHS and UNDERSTAND what he is trying to say (which is> understandable as it is in clear english) we would know that he is not> going to reveal everything that is astrology at all so its useless to> hide behind his back.> Shri Narendra Desai had a saying 'Do not listen to what people say, this> Uranus works and it works too well'.> > 9) People say that the issue is not if outerplanets takes 100 yrs blah> blah to move from a sign, what about Jupiter it takes only 1 yr, can we> say with all honesty that we understand how Jupiter is going to give> results in a chart or say any other planet in jyotish - ofcourse not we> do not know Jyotish as to even what Jyotish Is - this is the truth and> can be found out when we meet masters who had some knowledge of this> science.> > 10) Jyotish is an internal Sadhana which requires Bhakti of the highest> order and people who are argumentative, have anger, have jealousy, want> to put others down, have ego, have need for fame or getting themselves> shown as scholars will never understand it in this or any lifetime. Even> Parasara and other sages have mentioned the above criteria, I guess they> were not fools. This vidya is of Sanyasi's and not common man, anyone> who has travelled in search of true jyotish n met masters will realise> this statement as he will often find this answer staring right at his> face.> > I appreciate people like u who have tested the outer planets in over> hundred charts, u are far better off than us who only talk talk talk or> hide behind shlokas and we cant even test the shlokas that we know on> 100 charts.> > To end this,' We do not understand what the sages have said so getting> into arguments or discussions and says Sages said this or that is> Absurdity'> > best wishes> Sunil John> Mumbai> P.S: To others pls do not waste ur energy in replying to this mail, I do> not have the time or inclination to read it.> > > > > > > > > , Robert Koch rk@> wrote:> >> > Namah Shivaya> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~> >> > Dear Mr. Nair,> >> > Thank you for your post as well, which, although much less cynical> > than the responses of Sreenadh-ji, poses some good points. I too> > have argued for years since embarking on an ambitious study of> > Jyotish in 1984 that Uranus, Neptune and Pluto have no place within> > the practice of classical Jyotish. What naksatras do they rule? Who> > is their Devata, etc.? But my original stoicism toward these planets> > has changed due to undeniable experience of their> > affects. Astrologers must bring different approaches to the table as> > to the usefulness of these planets in actual astrological practice,> > rather than endless parrot-like quoting of shastras in an effort to> > dismiss them. There are those whose habit is to disable or ignore> > new approaches based on scriptural and classical reference, and then> > there are those who seek to find out in practice if they work or not> > or are useful. I prefer to take the latter route frankly.> >> > Let me make my point more clear: I believe in the active and> > enthusiastic efforts to try, research, and investigate the various> > methods of astrology being put forth. If there is even an inkling of> > reference to Vasishta Nadi, or Kapila Nadi as to Uranus, Neptune and> > Pluto, or if stalwarts in the field for whom I have great respect (as> > an example, Sri Chandulal S. Patel who did extensive research on the> > use of outer planets) then I personally will not sit on my hands> > until I have seen their effect in at least 100 charts. The fact is,> > that if transit Pluto moves over the lagna or Moon of the chart, you> > will not be able to deny the life-changing events and affects that> > such transits bring forward. This has been my observation testing it> > in hundreds of charts in a period of 23 years. There are various> > progression methods too practiced by both Nadi astrologers as well as> > western astrologers, and these will bring very specific events to our> > awareness referencing these outer planets as well.> >> > However, you are right, if Sri K.N. Rao challenged some Marathi> > astrologers to demonstrate their researches on outer planets, then> > the latter should have come forward to prove their point.> >> > Anyway, so how will we use our classical knowledge then? To dismiss> > or negate, or to rejuvenate the energy of discovery by trial and> > error, research and investigation? It is all up to the disposition> > of the individual astrologer and how he/she sees the learning and> > practice of this great science. If I think for a moment that my> > technique or knowledge is sufficient, and all the while I have not> > practically tested even what I do know on a multiplicity of charts,> > then Jyotish becomes a dry, intellectual hobby at best. Then it only> > serves to reinforce the ego of the astrologer, rather than becoming a> > vehicle to uplift and enlighten others. If, however, the astrologer> > continually tries, tests, and researches, then he keeps the science> > alive and you may be surprised how many secrets are revealed to a> > person with that attitude toward his practice.> >> > With best regards, and no disrespect intended toward anyone -> >> > Robert> >> > At 01:48 AM 7/5/2007, you wrote:> >> > >Hare rama krishna,> > >> > >dear robertji,> > >> > > Thanks for your post.> > >> > >But as seekers of truth and holders of light called jyothisha> > >should we go by some stray references which quoted by some one in> > >some group or we shud look for its textual reference.in tamil or> > >sanskrit ,as most of naadis in this laungage and quote the page> > >--line of concerned books.> > >> > >my observations.> > >> > >1)this planets stays more years and transit in ones life is> > >negligible as almost 100 or more years it stays in one rasi> > >> > > 2) There is no graha --khetra allotted to this planets by vedic> > > seers,like ucha ,swa or neecha .> > >> > >3)There is no dasa periods as its important in delination of results.> > >> > >4) their nature ,karaka and frndly and enmy planets r not identified> > >again important in vedic style of delination of results.> > >> > >And i read --i dont hav text--in varaha hora --varahmihira describes> > >--there are 100s crores of planets are there but we take only 7> > >planets and 2 chaya grahs ( its some thing like grhanam shatha kodi> > >---- like this --may be sree nath can help me ),as only this planets> > >can influence in ecliptical path of earth .> > >> > >Also one naadi astrology people under the team of sri Taneja of> > >delhi uses this planets as i was told he was taught this method by> > >one J C LUTRA ,again i dont know whats their sourse,and i could not> > >test it as they use differrent ayanamsha and charges 15000/- or some> > >for software ,so i leav it> > >> > >Once in one astro conference held and chaired by BV raman ,sri KN> > >rao challenged all marathi astrologers to prove those who uses extra> > >sataurnian planets ,all shied away ,most of them were famous> astrologers> > >> > >i heard in mahabharath vedvyas mentiones indra varuna,rudra dring> > >the time of war --yes i dont hav that part with me now> > >> > >But its more mundane as a bloody distructive war.> > >> > >pls produce textual support.> > >> > >regrds sunil nair> > >> > >om shreem mahalaxmai namah.> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > , Robert Koch rk@> wrote:> > > >> > > > Namaste Prafulla,> > > >> > > > At 08:56 AM 7/4/2007, you wrote:> > > > >Dear Sir> > > > >> > > > >Harshal, Neptune etc are referred in one of the nadi..I do not> > > > >remember..one of the jyotish forum member shared that on another> > > > >thread in another forum.> > > >> > > > Yes, according to my sources also, Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto are> > > > taught in Vasishta and Kapila Nadis.> > > >> > > > Best regards,> > > > Robert Koch> > > >> > > >> > > > >regards / Prafulla Gang> > > > >http://www.prafulla.net> > > > >> > > > >"The right to be heard does not automatically include the right> to> > > > >be taken seriously."> > > > >************************************************> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > navagraha@> > > > > > ! Wed, 4 Jul 2007 09:02:47 -0400> > > > > > > > > > > > Re: Re: Importance of> Bhava Chart> > > > > >> > > > > > Namaste Sreenadh,> > > > > >> > > > > > There are astrologers in Maharashatra that give absolutely> brilliant> > > > > > predictions. They use Hershel, Neptune etc. Rarely use dashas.> I agree> > > > > > with> > > > > > you that Hershel and neptune have no classical standing.> > > > > >> > > > > > I personally do not think hershel and neptune don't need to be> used to> > > > > > give> > > > > > predictions. Quest for Pramana in classics is the way to go.> > > > > >> > > > > > ...> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > On 7/4/07, Sreenadh sreesog@ wrote:> > > > > >>> > > > > >> Dear Prafulla ji,> > > > > >> I don't know. That is not my domai! n as well. I am after> ancient> > > > > >> Indian astrology - in a continuing search for the originals.> That is> > > > > >> the only thing I can say.> > > > > >> Love,> > > > > >> Sreenadh> > > > > >>> > > > > >> --- In> > > > > >>> > > > >> > >> <%40yaho\> ogroups.com>,> > > > > >> Prafulla Gang> > > > > >> jyotish@ wrote:> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>> Dear Sreenadh ji> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>> I am not familiar with history of jyotish and sanskrit as> well. But> > > > > >> In my observation - most traditionalist in northern India use> bhava> > > > > >> chalit chart for quite accurate predictions. If it does not> make> > > > > >> sense, then how come predictions are so accurate?> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>> regards / Prafulla Gang> > > > > >>> http://www.prafulla.net> > > > > & !> > >gt;>>> > > > > >>> "The right to be heard does not automatically include the> right to> > > > > >> be taken seriously."> > > > > >>> ************************************************> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> sreesog@> > > > > >>>> Tue, 03 Jul 2007 05:59:46 -0000> > > > > >>>> To:> > > > > >>>>> > > > >> > >> <%40yaho\> ogroups.com>> > > > > >>>> Re: Importance of Bhava> Chart> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>> Dear Kannan ji,> > > > > >>>> There is "no seperate bhava chart"; the Rasi chart itself> is the> > > > > >>>> bhava chart. Considering bhava chart as a seperate entity> originated> > > > ! > >>>> after the period of Sripati of 10th centuary AD. It is> misleading> > > > > >>>> concept similar to considering Navamsa as a seperate chart> not> > > > > >>>> supported by ancient sages.> > > > > >>>> You can find more info regarding the same from the> following file> > > > > >>>> present in the file section of the group.> > > > > >>>> URL:> > > > > >>>>> > >> Sreenadh/> > > > > >>>> Signs and Houses.pdf> > > > > >>>> As you could see there is no point in discussing> non-existent things> > > > > >>>> which are not supported by the sages; as of me I trying to> > > understand> > > > > >>>> what they taught, as per their own words. [And therefore> any> > > > > >>>> discussion on Bhava, considering it not the same as sign,> is not my> > > > > >>>> domain]> > > > > >>>>> > > > & !> > >gt; >>>> ==>> > > > > >>>>> For eg. Jupiter an important planet for Scorpio Lagna> placed in> > > > > >>>>> Makara in Rasi (debilitation) and in Dhanu in Bhava (own> sign).> > > > > >>>> <==> > > > > >>>> As you could see, this is absurd. For Scorpio Lagna, Ju> in> > > > > >>>> Capricorn (Makara) rasi, is in 3rd house (bhava), and is> > > in Capricorn> > > > > >>>> sign. (Sign and house being the same). This is the ancient> concept;> > > > > >>>> and the result derivation would be as per that. > > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>> ==>> > > > > >>>>> In continuation to our earlier discussions on> > > > > >>>>> Retrogression, in this example Jupiter is Retrograde and> placed in> > > > > >>>>> Meena in Navamsa. How much is the effect of> debilitation/own sign> > > > ! > >>>>> in this case.> > > > > >>>> <==> > > > > >>>> That is an entirely different subject (i.e. how to> interpret Sign> > > > > >>>> and Navamsa results) and would discussed later.> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>> ==>> > > > > >>>>> Last but not the least I am eagerly waiting for your next> file on> > > > > >>>>> birth time rectification.> > > > > >>>> <==> > > > > >>>> Yes, this is one thing in the urgent task list. I will> try to> > > > > >>>> complete it by next Saturday or prior to that. > > > > > >>>> Love,> > > > > >>>> Sreenadh> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>> --- In> > > > > >>>>> > > > >> > >> <%40yaho\> ogroups.com>,> > > > > >> "kankan_73"> > > > > >>> & g!> > >t; <kankan_73@> wrote:> > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>> Dear Sreenadh ji,> > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>> Please tell me something on the importance of Bhava Chart.> Do this> > > > > >>>>> chart has importance like Navamsa. I have seen mentioning> of bhava> > > > > >>>>> position (if different from Rasi Chart) while mentioning> Planetary> > > > > >>>>> results in old Jathakams written by Kerala astrologers.> What is> > > > > >>>> the> > > > > >>>>> result if an important planet is posited in different> signs in Rasi> > > > > >>>>> and Bhava.> > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>> For eg. Jupiter an important planet for Scorpio Lagna> placed in> > > > > >>>>> Makara in Rasi (debilitation) and in Dhanu in Bhava (own> sign).> > > > > >>> & g!> > >t; How> > > > > >>>>> do we analyze this. In contin uation to our earlier> discussions on> > > > > >>>>> Retrogression, in this example Jupiter is Retrograde and> placed in> > > > > >>>>> Meena in Navamsa. How much is the effect of> debilitation/own sign> > > > > >>>> in> > > > > >>>>> this case.> > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>> I request you to give your views on Bhava vs Rasi> > > > > >>>>> differences/effects in general and also your view on the> above> > > > > >>>>> example.> > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>> Last but not the least I am eagerly waiting for your next> file on> > > > > >>>>> birth time rectification.> > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>> Thanks & regards,> > > > > >>>>> Kannan> > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>> & !> > >gt;> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2007 Report Share Posted July 8, 2007 Wow! That is great! From where you are getting these flow of words! Sorry..Sunil ji...I couldn't resitst it. I think I too wished to express similar idea, but couldn't find the words. Love, Sreenadh , " sunil nair " <astro_tellerkerala wrote: > > > Hare ramakrishna, > > dear sunil john and robertji, > > I must point out here that this a forum of learning .And no body is > here perfect in the art ,if so why we should join here as not very many > people seeking predictions are entertained here .And so future business > prospects r not there. > > Let us Not be like some 2 religious enthusiastics debating whose > religion is better . > > Here the main discussion is whether the outer saturnian planets can be > used in individual charts and predictions and how its behaving in > various charts ,if so how we can arrive at .And also please not that no > body is here right now interested in mundane as first every body is > after their own fate then only national or international approach starts > and its one of the discarded area as lack of encourage ment from public > or government . > > These planets being used in mundane prediction cannot be ruled out as it > takes long time to move out of a rasi and may be influencing some part > of world or triggerring some events or being some planets as big as all > the other planets put togetther may be influencing yugas also . > > Yes many pointed out That this extra saturnian planets is not used > Vedic Astrology and many popular naadis .some r pointed that its used in > some naadis and its mentioned in mahabharath period onwards.All these > points atleast i know ,only question is how can we use in kundalies > > In vedic astrology and naadi astrology i find the people who use planets > other than this planets has advantage of allready revealed things by > rishis and sidhas. > > Now coming to point > > all other planets has well established rules for predictions formulated > by rishis. > > Like all planets they given karakatwa,signs ,moolkshetra ,ucha ,neecha > signs ,transit periods ,and its effects ,charactrestics ,ruling parts in > human body ,in face and in hand ,hand lines.and their behavior ,ruling > classes of people ,ruling areas ibn india and world,ruling > laungauges,planetarydevatas,ruling nakhsatras,swaroopas > ,mantras,gunas,ruling metals,their taste,flowers,animals > ,plants,trees,professions ruled by this planets,perfumes,raagas in music > ,body parts,vastu ,human relation ship like sun is father. its colors > ,precious stones,qualities like anger,humours like vat ,pitta. > seasons,castes like working groups.Pancha bhootas (ruling elements like > fire ,earth),directions like north ,west, diseases ,educational > portfolios,vehicles,places of worship,their physical > appearance,spices,house hold articles,their frndly planets and enmy > planets and more important things is its dasa periods-----------these r > the thing we need minimum to delinate results in prashan and charts in > individual predictions. > > Now to sri.robertji ----since u used in testing in many charts now pluto > is moving tru dhanus rasi --so whats the effect for people who is > dhanus(sagitarius ) rasi and lagna and moon sign --is it positive and > negetive ,so readers can test it and we will come to comfortable > conclusion.What are the effects u said --as u said they feel the change. > > Now to sri sunil john > > U said abt some savants of astro uses in predictions --what method > ,absense of that how we can be for sure . > > May be hardeo sharma uses --but in mundane but my information is he is > from ujjain school of astrology propounded by varahamihira and he uses > lot of secret chakras ,P S iyyer i doubt as he is from pure kerala > paramapara --still i am yet to confront some one who uses these planets > in kerala with parampara techniqs.In kerala i find various other > techniqs in astro . > > U see KAS,KP and sistems appraoch all of them demonstrated there own > techniq and nothing is hidden from readers or practisioners ,and they r > not telling u r impure and u r not entitled to get this knowledge .Among > them atleast this KAS-ashta varga astrologers are saying its rishi > proktha knowledge > > Your reference abt that marathi astrologer is good and keep ur vow not > show any astrologer students to him --good and fine > > But dont high lite that he charges nothing and donates evrything he > lives on air and his bills are paid automaticaly ---i am yet to find > such a spiritual personality in india since budha ( who was > begging---taking alms).I think atleast his data is un doubted and > scietific and proved by historians.Yes i find one keralite jain lives on > sun energy and he is a business man who charges for his services and > goods--it is proved by NASA > > Also regrding santanams death ---no doubt its not curse of brigu --its > society has not supported him and he was doing all from his pocket and > by publishing books --even these days --u cannot cover any of ur > expenses ,so may be personal problems or family problems as no body > wants such father ,or husband who is a fool who waistes money and > efforts to some unproductiv ventures ,as i heard it was a unnatural > death.So do we need to spread anthaviswas. > > I recently heard one student of Mr .K N rao successfully find > combination from brigu naadi to predict important events in life like > marriage ,professions ups and downs and status ,children etc ,he is from > rich back ground ,so muni brigu not cursed him . > > And u know --one american who translated yavana samhita --got 5 crore > indian ruppes as sponsorship and i think that was guided by santanam > --what he got being a spiritual indian . > > As far sanskrit if u want there r good pundits still there and only u > pay him well as they need to support their families well and they has a > right to liv a decent life . > > Please dont think -These r not aimed at any personal attack --i demands > every body approach the subjuct with rational and intellectual approach > and pls dont say u r cursed and no right to get knowledge and dont worry > abt knowledge getting corrupted as no body can do after studying a > subjuct for 20 or 25 years and so leav that tension aside -- > > I am till today find only one grp headed by sri Umang taneja doing > successfully using these planets ,and they r ready to teach any body > --and its not a close gaurded secret ,but i find they r using some yogas > and not in dasa or transit with my one day interaction with him --he > happily explained all techniqs and ready to reveal u any thing only my > time barrier and lack of finance ( as they use differrent ayanamsa and i > dont hav their software which cost around 15000 2 years back)stopped me > .And he is not practising and only teaches u as he himself is a business > man and his many sisyas already started doing practise.And since i am > not under any oath i will guide any body to him and give his details or > books > > Hope now we can demonstrate some methods other than --he was using,they > r from 15 generation back - tall claims --so no head ache of this sloka > business also ,as one ounce of experince is bettet than a ton of > knowledge. > > Again i clarify here i am not writing this lines to hurt any body > personaly and sunil john is my personal frnd ( i took that free dom here > ).Where we discuss many other things abt jyothish privately also .This > post is purely subjuct oriented --and i thought 2 days to write it > --shud i do it or not and finaly decided to write . > > any body can reply this depends on their time availability and i am only > interested to keep the subjuct alive . > > wishing u all the best > > regrds sunil nair > > om shreem mahalxami namah. > > > > > , " jjnet2000_in " > <jjnet2000_in@> wrote: > > > > Om Datta Guru > > > > Dear Robert, > > Though I had walked off this list long back due to the racist remark > but > > was compelled to write in ur defense as I know u are a genuine seeker > of > > this shastra. This mail is not intended just for u :- > > I feel we have a different problem its not about whether Outer Planets > > were written by our sages but do we have the Open Mind to understand > > jyotish, is it a growing science. Do the planets behave differently in > > different yugas (clues to this have been given in many old books), so > > should we alter our thinking. > > > > 1) We do not have even 1-5 % of the ancient books so debating if outer > > planets were written in the old books is fruitless especially since > > there are hundreds of books in libraries and at homes which are yet to > > be translated. Even the few nadis with me are gathering dust though i > > have begged Good scholars of sanskrit to translate it and they are > > unable to do so. Sometimes I feel if Nadi work is meant for everyone > > e.g Santhanam died all of a sudden when he had almost finished Bhrigu > > Nadi & who ever has touched Bhrigu Nadi has faced unsurmountable > > problems. I wish he had brought it out, he had said all works aside > and > > Bhrigu Nadi in one side, thats the worth of it. > > > > 2) If KNRao challenged the marathi astrologers this must be taken in > > another context, we must understand Rao Sahebs strength & weakness > first > > (this is not meant to demean him) - one of his own mentor in mundane > > astrology the Late Hardeo Sharma Trivedi used to use Outer Planets > > fantastically in his predictions and is till date one of the greatest > > predictors of mundane astrology. > > > > 3) Ramans grandfather often said to him forget the shloka business see > > what works that is True astrology, so running behind shlokas for it is > > useless. Then even if shlokas are presented whats the use, can anyone > > today interpret it, I have not found a true knowledgeable guy in > > sanskrit. > > > > 4) Current breed of scholars are self appointed scholars who have zero > > level of scientific mind and do not test any principle. thousands of > > shlokas do not work what do they have to say to that. So should we > > discard all the works of the Rishis who wrote it. Rishis do not agree > to > > the effects of even something as a planet in a house, different > opinions > > among rishis > > > > 5) The Late P.S.Iyer whom Rao Saheb also says was one of the most > > fantastic astrologer used to predict to the DAY every event, he used > to > > use the Outer Planets. > > > > 6) 4 hrs from Bombay is a person still alive who was brought up in a > > tradition where books from Lopi Script were handed down to him, for 25 > > yrs he was taught astrology and only after that he was asked to see > his > > first chart & practice jyotish (the money he takes is in form of > > donation, he does not see the amount given & donates it full). I have > > not met an astrologer like him, of all the astrologers i have met and > > interacted he is the only guy I know who can UNLOCK a chart. He was > > introduced to me by an Ex-SJC Mumbai person and I have vowed not to > take > > current breed of astrologers to him, they do not deserve him. I always > > say if people on the lists from india knew astrology they would not > have > > spare time to write here as flock of people would be outside their > > house. This man has a daily visitation of 100 people and he drives the > > rest away. He uses Outer Planets and his parampara is of more than 14 > > generations, at that time the world did not even know of Outer > Planets. > > I asked him to share the shlokas from his family, he said can u or > > anyone read them, then do u all have the ability to decode it, whats > the > > use of getting into scholarly mode that 'Only when u see the shloka u > > would believe, forget shlokas test the technique only then u would > learn > > astrology' - he told me. > > > > I have begged him to come out with a book but he refuses, this vidya > is > > only misused by egoists so he does not want a curse of sharing that > > knowledge to such readers. He is a DashaGranthi Brahmin btw, my > efforts > > still continue in him bringing at least a basic book. > > > > 7) Our astrology in current form is useless in a deeper sense, we > > realise that when we read ChandraKala Nadi (Devekerelam) & to a > certain > > extent Bhavartha Ratnakara for e.g > > > > 8) Narendra Desai the greatest astrologer to walk into america as per > > most senior astrologers in america had seen the text of Vasistha Nadi > > wherein Outer Planets was mentioned and we all know how fantastic a > > predictor he was, ofcourse his breed will never be born again. People > on > > lists will sit here whole life arguing that Outer Planets are not > > mentioned in classics but no one has the guts to test it on 100 charts > > with an open mind. Only when we test we realise what we are missing > and > > alas we say we hide behind Parasara's back as if we know everything > that > > he said. We cant even interpret his shlokas well. If we read first 2 > > chapters of BPHS and UNDERSTAND what he is trying to say (which is > > understandable as it is in clear english) we would know that he is not > > going to reveal everything that is astrology at all so its useless to > > hide behind his back. > > Shri Narendra Desai had a saying 'Do not listen to what people say, > this > > Uranus works and it works too well'. > > > > 9) People say that the issue is not if outerplanets takes 100 yrs blah > > blah to move from a sign, what about Jupiter it takes only 1 yr, can > we > > say with all honesty that we understand how Jupiter is going to give > > results in a chart or say any other planet in jyotish - ofcourse not > we > > do not know Jyotish as to even what Jyotish Is - this is the truth and > > can be found out when we meet masters who had some knowledge of this > > science. > > > > 10) Jyotish is an internal Sadhana which requires Bhakti of the > highest > > order and people who are argumentative, have anger, have jealousy, > want > > to put others down, have ego, have need for fame or getting themselves > > shown as scholars will never understand it in this or any lifetime. > Even > > Parasara and other sages have mentioned the above criteria, I guess > they > > were not fools. This vidya is of Sanyasi's and not common man, anyone > > who has travelled in search of true jyotish n met masters will realise > > this statement as he will often find this answer staring right at his > > face. > > > > I appreciate people like u who have tested the outer planets in over > > hundred charts, u are far better off than us who only talk talk talk > or > > hide behind shlokas and we cant even test the shlokas that we know on > > 100 charts. > > > > To end this,' We do not understand what the sages have said so getting > > into arguments or discussions and says Sages said this or that is > > Absurdity' > > > > best wishes > > Sunil John > > Mumbai > > P.S: To others pls do not waste ur energy in replying to this mail, I > do > > not have the time or inclination to read it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Robert Koch rk@ > > wrote: > > > > > > Namah Shivaya > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > > > Dear Mr. Nair, > > > > > > Thank you for your post as well, which, although much less cynical > > > than the responses of Sreenadh-ji, poses some good points. I too > > > have argued for years since embarking on an ambitious study of > > > Jyotish in 1984 that Uranus, Neptune and Pluto have no place within > > > the practice of classical Jyotish. What naksatras do they rule? Who > > > is their Devata, etc.? But my original stoicism toward these planets > > > has changed due to undeniable experience of their > > > affects. Astrologers must bring different approaches to the table as > > > to the usefulness of these planets in actual astrological practice, > > > rather than endless parrot-like quoting of shastras in an effort to > > > dismiss them. There are those whose habit is to disable or ignore > > > new approaches based on scriptural and classical reference, and then > > > there are those who seek to find out in practice if they work or not > > > or are useful. I prefer to take the latter route frankly. > > > > > > Let me make my point more clear: I believe in the active and > > > enthusiastic efforts to try, research, and investigate the various > > > methods of astrology being put forth. If there is even an inkling of > > > reference to Vasishta Nadi, or Kapila Nadi as to Uranus, Neptune and > > > Pluto, or if stalwarts in the field for whom I have great respect > (as > > > an example, Sri Chandulal S. Patel who did extensive research on the > > > use of outer planets) then I personally will not sit on my hands > > > until I have seen their effect in at least 100 charts. The fact is, > > > that if transit Pluto moves over the lagna or Moon of the chart, you > > > will not be able to deny the life-changing events and affects that > > > such transits bring forward. This has been my observation testing it > > > in hundreds of charts in a period of 23 years. There are various > > > progression methods too practiced by both Nadi astrologers as well > as > > > western astrologers, and these will bring very specific events to > our > > > awareness referencing these outer planets as well. > > > > > > However, you are right, if Sri K.N. Rao challenged some Marathi > > > astrologers to demonstrate their researches on outer planets, then > > > the latter should have come forward to prove their point. > > > > > > Anyway, so how will we use our classical knowledge then? To dismiss > > > or negate, or to rejuvenate the energy of discovery by trial and > > > error, research and investigation? It is all up to the disposition > > > of the individual astrologer and how he/she sees the learning and > > > practice of this great science. If I think for a moment that my > > > technique or knowledge is sufficient, and all the while I have not > > > practically tested even what I do know on a multiplicity of charts, > > > then Jyotish becomes a dry, intellectual hobby at best. Then it only > > > serves to reinforce the ego of the astrologer, rather than becoming > a > > > vehicle to uplift and enlighten others. If, however, the astrologer > > > continually tries, tests, and researches, then he keeps the science > > > alive and you may be surprised how many secrets are revealed to a > > > person with that attitude toward his practice. > > > > > > With best regards, and no disrespect intended toward anyone - > > > > > > Robert > > > > > > At 01:48 AM 7/5/2007, you wrote: > > > > > > >Hare rama krishna, > > > > > > > >dear robertji, > > > > > > > > Thanks for your post. > > > > > > > >But as seekers of truth and holders of light called jyothisha > > > >should we go by some stray references which quoted by some one in > > > >some group or we shud look for its textual reference.in tamil or > > > >sanskrit ,as most of naadis in this laungage and quote the page > > > >--line of concerned books. > > > > > > > >my observations. > > > > > > > >1)this planets stays more years and transit in ones life is > > > >negligible as almost 100 or more years it stays in one rasi > > > > > > > > 2) There is no graha --khetra allotted to this planets by vedic > > > > seers,like ucha ,swa or neecha . > > > > > > > >3)There is no dasa periods as its important in delination of > results. > > > > > > > >4) their nature ,karaka and frndly and enmy planets r not > identified > > > >again important in vedic style of delination of results. > > > > > > > >And i read --i dont hav text--in varaha hora --varahmihira > describes > > > >--there are 100s crores of planets are there but we take only 7 > > > >planets and 2 chaya grahs ( its some thing like grhanam shatha kodi > > > >---- like this --may be sree nath can help me ),as only this > planets > > > >can influence in ecliptical path of earth . > > > > > > > >Also one naadi astrology people under the team of sri Taneja of > > > >delhi uses this planets as i was told he was taught this method by > > > >one J C LUTRA ,again i dont know whats their sourse,and i could not > > > >test it as they use differrent ayanamsha and charges 15000/- or > some > > > >for software ,so i leav it > > > > > > > >Once in one astro conference held and chaired by BV raman ,sri KN > > > >rao challenged all marathi astrologers to prove those who uses > extra > > > >sataurnian planets ,all shied away ,most of them were famous > > astrologers > > > > > > > >i heard in mahabharath vedvyas mentiones indra varuna,rudra dring > > > >the time of war --yes i dont hav that part with me now > > > > > > > >But its more mundane as a bloody distructive war. > > > > > > > >pls produce textual support. > > > > > > > >regrds sunil nair > > > > > > > >om shreem mahalaxmai namah. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Robert Koch rk@ > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Prafulla, > > > > > > > > > > At 08:56 AM 7/4/2007, you wrote: > > > > > >Dear Sir > > > > > > > > > > > >Harshal, Neptune etc are referred in one of the nadi..I do not > > > > > >remember..one of the jyotish forum member shared that on > another > > > > > >thread in another forum. > > > > > > > > > > Yes, according to my sources also, Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto > are > > > > > taught in Vasishta and Kapila Nadis. > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > Robert Koch > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > >http://www.prafulla.net > > > > > > > > > > > > " The right to be heard does not automatically include the right > > to > > > > > >be taken seriously. " > > > > > >************************************************ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > navagraha@ > > > > > > > ! Wed, 4 Jul 2007 09:02:47 -0400 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Re: Re: Importance of > > Bhava Chart > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Sreenadh, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are astrologers in Maharashatra that give absolutely > > brilliant > > > > > > > predictions. They use Hershel, Neptune etc. Rarely use > dashas. > > I agree > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > you that Hershel and neptune have no classical standing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I personally do not think hershel and neptune don't need to > be > > used to > > > > > > > give > > > > > > > predictions. Quest for Pramana in classics is the way to go. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 7/4/07, Sreenadh sreesog@ wrote: > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> Dear Prafulla ji, > > > > > > >> I don't know. That is not my domai! n as well. I am after > > ancient > > > > > > >> Indian astrology - in a continuing search for the > originals. > > That is > > > > > > >> the only thing I can say. > > > > > > >> Love, > > > > > > >> Sreenadh > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> --- In > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40yaho\ > \ > > ogroups.com>, > > > > > > >> Prafulla Gang > > > > > > >> jyotish@ wrote: > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> Dear Sreenadh ji > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> I am not familiar with history of jyotish and sanskrit as > > well. But > > > > > > >> In my observation - most traditionalist in northern India > use > > bhava > > > > > > >> chalit chart for quite accurate predictions. If it does not > > make > > > > > > >> sense, then how come predictions are so accurate? > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > >>> http://www.prafulla.net > > > > > > & ! > > > >gt;>> > > > > > > >>> " The right to be heard does not automatically include the > > right to > > > > > > >> be taken seriously. " > > > > > > >>> ************************************************ > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>>> sreesog@ > > > > > > >>>> Tue, 03 Jul 2007 05:59:46 -0000 > > > > > > >>>> To: > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40yaho\ > \ > > ogroups.com> > > > > > > >>>> Re: Importance of > Bhava > > Chart > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>>> Dear Kannan ji, > > > > > > >>>> There is " no seperate bhava chart " ; the Rasi chart itself > > is the > > > > > > >>>> bhava chart. Considering bhava chart as a seperate entity > > originated > > > > > ! > >>>> after the period of Sripati of 10th centuary AD. It is > > misleading > > > > > > >>>> concept similar to considering Navamsa as a seperate > chart > > not > > > > > > >>>> supported by ancient sages. > > > > > > >>>> You can find more info regarding the same from the > > following file > > > > > > >>>> present in the file section of the group. > > > > > > >>>> URL: > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > Sreenadh/ > > > > > > >>>> Signs and Houses.pdf > > > > > > >>>> As you could see there is no point in discussing > > non-existent things > > > > > > >>>> which are not supported by the sages; as of me I trying > to > > > > understand > > > > > > >>>> what they taught, as per their own words. [And therefore > > any > > > > > > >>>> discussion on Bhava, considering it not the same as sign, > > is not my > > > > > > >>>> domain] > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > & ! > > > >gt; >>>> ==> > > > > > > >>>>> For eg. Jupiter an important planet for Scorpio Lagna > > placed in > > > > > > >>>>> Makara in Rasi (debilitation) and in Dhanu in Bhava (own > > sign). > > > > > > >>>> <== > > > > > > >>>> As you could see, this is absurd. For Scorpio Lagna, > Ju > > in > > > > > > >>>> Capricorn (Makara) rasi, is in 3rd house (bhava), and is > > > > in Capricorn > > > > > > >>>> sign. (Sign and house being the same). This is the > ancient > > concept; > > > > > > >>>> and the result derivation would be as per that. > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>>> ==> > > > > > > >>>>> In continuation to our earlier discussions on > > > > > > >>>>> Retrogression, in this example Jupiter is Retrograde and > > placed in > > > > > > >>>>> Meena in Navamsa. How much is the effect of > > debilitation/own sign > > > > > ! > >>>>> in this case. > > > > > > >>>> <== > > > > > > >>>> That is an entirely different subject (i.e. how to > > interpret Sign > > > > > > >>>> and Navamsa results) and would discussed later. > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>>> ==> > > > > > > >>>>> Last but not the least I am eagerly waiting for your > next > > file on > > > > > > >>>>> birth time rectification. > > > > > > >>>> <== > > > > > > >>>> Yes, this is one thing in the urgent task list. I will > > try to > > > > > > >>>> complete it by next Saturday or prior to that. > > > > > > >>>> Love, > > > > > > >>>> Sreenadh > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>>> --- In > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40yaho\ > \ > > ogroups.com>, > > > > > > >> " kankan_73 " > > > > > > >>> & g! > > > >t; <kankan_73@> wrote: > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > >>>>> Dear Sreenadh ji, > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > >>>>> Please tell me something on the importance of Bhava > Chart. > > Do this > > > > > > >>>>> chart has importance like Navamsa. I have seen > mentioning > > of bhava > > > > > > >>>>> position (if different from Rasi Chart) while mentioning > > Planetary > > > > > > >>>>> results in old Jathakams written by Kerala astrologers. > > What is > > > > > > >>>> the > > > > > > >>>>> result if an important planet is posited in different > > signs in Rasi > > > > > > >>>>> and Bhava. > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > >>>>> For eg. Jupiter an important planet for Scorpio Lagna > > placed in > > > > > > >>>>> Makara in Rasi (debilitation) and in Dhanu in Bhava (own > > sign). > > > > > > >>> & g! > > > >t; How > > > > > > >>>>> do we analyze this. In contin uation to our earlier > > discussions on > > > > > > >>>>> Retrogression, in this example Jupiter is Retrograde and > > placed in > > > > > > >>>>> Meena in Navamsa. How much is the effect of > > debilitation/own sign > > > > > > >>>> in > > > > > > >>>>> this case. > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > >>>>> I request you to give your views on Bhava vs Rasi > > > > > > >>>>> differences/effects in general and also your view on the > > above > > > > > > >>>>> example. > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > >>>>> Last but not the least I am eagerly waiting for your > next > > file on > > > > > > >>>>> birth time rectification. > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > >>>>> Thanks & regards, > > > > > > >>>>> Kannan > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>> & ! > > > >gt; > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2007 Report Share Posted July 8, 2007 Hare ramakrishna, dear sreenadhji, Thanks for encouraging remarks and words. But still i am having the fear that all discussions is going to only like debating on pro and anti like some differrent ideological or religious group and no body comes out with working model which can be replicated with atleast 80% of the charts . Every body forgets that we r here to share and use and reserch and if possible re establish the principles and re gain the lost glory of good old astrology and astrologers like rajajyothishis of yore.Lot of dirt ,manipulations and mis intrepretations has accumulated in astrological literature. And if some one is expressing concern and gaurding it, it should not further corrupted by further additions and neo theoreys . Atleast we hav a duty as astro lovers to keep this sastra from the clutches of branded astrologers who float daily new new theoreys with the help of new devlped technologies making maximum use for their personal benefit and own branding of image .If u accept it and forget your duties then we all will hav to pay hefty price for our ignorence. So any reference on astrological principles will be passed tru that quality control test .Atleast from my part .And i dont want a image of good boy in forum by keeping my heads in sand . So i still expect serious students and reserchers come out and let us test any principle forwarded by any one .As astrology can be reserched only by joint efforts and as an individual every body will hav their own limitations .Here there is no ego problem ,but any theorey has to go tru strict testing and trial and error method --all astro principles propounded by differrent rishis r still worked out by lacs of students on differrent part of world ,i dont think no body is doing it just by parroting it and accepting like fatwa.Thats why this time tested priciples we called classics. Any way thanks for supporting and your mentioning of regrding flow of words i think u hav more ashirvad of mother saraswathi than me .I always like your style of writing . with thanks and regrds sunil nair om shreem mahalaxmai namah. , "Sreenadh" <sreesog wrote:>> Wow! That is great! From where you are getting these flow of words!> Sorry..Sunil ji...I couldn't resitst it. I think I too wished to> express similar idea, but couldn't find the words. > Love,> Sreenadh> > , "sunil nair"> astro_tellerkerala@ wrote:> >> > > > Hare ramakrishna,> > > > dear sunil john and robertji,> > > > I must point out here that this a forum of learning .And no body is> > here perfect in the art ,if so why we should join here as not very many> > people seeking predictions are entertained here .And so future business> > prospects r not there.> > > > Let us Not be like some 2 religious enthusiastics debating whose> > religion is better .> > > > Here the main discussion is whether the outer saturnian planets can be> > used in individual charts and predictions and how its behaving in> > various charts ,if so how we can arrive at .And also please not that no> > body is here right now interested in mundane as first every body is> > after their own fate then only national or international approach starts> > and its one of the discarded area as lack of encourage ment from public> > or government .> > > > These planets being used in mundane prediction cannot be ruled out as it> > takes long time to move out of a rasi and may be influencing some part> > of world or triggerring some events or being some planets as big as all> > the other planets put togetther may be influencing yugas also .> > > > Yes many pointed out That this extra saturnian planets is not used> > Vedic Astrology and many popular naadis .some r pointed that its used in> > some naadis and its mentioned in mahabharath period onwards.All these> > points atleast i know ,only question is how can we use in kundalies> > > > In vedic astrology and naadi astrology i find the people who use planets> > other than this planets has advantage of allready revealed things by> > rishis and sidhas.> > > > Now coming to point> > > > all other planets has well established rules for predictions formulated> > by rishis.> > > > Like all planets they given karakatwa,signs ,moolkshetra ,ucha ,neecha> > signs ,transit periods ,and its effects ,charactrestics ,ruling parts in> > human body ,in face and in hand ,hand lines.and their behavior ,ruling> > classes of people ,ruling areas ibn india and world,ruling> > laungauges,planetarydevatas,ruling nakhsatras,swaroopas> > ,mantras,gunas,ruling metals,their taste,flowers,animals> > ,plants,trees,professions ruled by this planets,perfumes,raagas in music> > ,body parts,vastu ,human relation ship like sun is father. its colors> > ,precious stones,qualities like anger,humours like vat ,pitta.> > seasons,castes like working groups.Pancha bhootas (ruling elements like> > fire ,earth),directions like north ,west, diseases ,educational> > portfolios,vehicles,places of worship,their physical> > appearance,spices,house hold articles,their frndly planets and enmy> > planets and more important things is its dasa periods-----------these r> > the thing we need minimum to delinate results in prashan and charts in> > individual predictions.> > > > Now to sri.robertji ----since u used in testing in many charts now pluto> > is moving tru dhanus rasi --so whats the effect for people who is> > dhanus(sagitarius ) rasi and lagna and moon sign --is it positive and> > negetive ,so readers can test it and we will come to comfortable> > conclusion.What are the effects u said --as u said they feel the change.> > > > Now to sri sunil john> > > > U said abt some savants of astro uses in predictions --what method> > ,absense of that how we can be for sure .> > > > May be hardeo sharma uses --but in mundane but my information is he is> > from ujjain school of astrology propounded by varahamihira and he uses> > lot of secret chakras ,P S iyyer i doubt as he is from pure kerala> > paramapara --still i am yet to confront some one who uses these planets> > in kerala with parampara techniqs.In kerala i find various other> > techniqs in astro .> > > > U see KAS,KP and sistems appraoch all of them demonstrated there own > > techniq and nothing is hidden from readers or practisioners ,and they r> > not telling u r impure and u r not entitled to get this knowledge .Among> > them atleast this KAS-ashta varga astrologers are saying its rishi> > proktha knowledge> > > > Your reference abt that marathi astrologer is good and keep ur vow not> > show any astrologer students to him --good and fine> > > > But dont high lite that he charges nothing and donates evrything he> > lives on air and his bills are paid automaticaly ---i am yet to find> > such a spiritual personality in india since budha ( who was> > begging---taking alms).I think atleast his data is un doubted and> > scietific and proved by historians.Yes i find one keralite jain lives on> > sun energy and he is a business man who charges for his services and> > goods--it is proved by NASA> > > > Also regrding santanams death ---no doubt its not curse of brigu --its> > society has not supported him and he was doing all from his pocket and> > by publishing books --even these days --u cannot cover any of ur> > expenses ,so may be personal problems or family problems as no body> > wants such father ,or husband who is a fool who waistes money and> > efforts to some unproductiv ventures ,as i heard it was a unnatural> > death.So do we need to spread anthaviswas.> > > > I recently heard one student of Mr .K N rao successfully find> > combination from brigu naadi to predict important events in life like> > marriage ,professions ups and downs and status ,children etc ,he is from> > rich back ground ,so muni brigu not cursed him .> > > > And u know --one american who translated yavana samhita --got 5 crore> > indian ruppes as sponsorship and i think that was guided by santanam> > --what he got being a spiritual indian .> > > > As far sanskrit if u want there r good pundits still there and only u> > pay him well as they need to support their families well and they has a> > right to liv a decent life .> > > > Please dont think -These r not aimed at any personal attack --i demands> > every body approach the subjuct with rational and intellectual approach> > and pls dont say u r cursed and no right to get knowledge and dont worry> > abt knowledge getting corrupted as no body can do after studying a> > subjuct for 20 or 25 years and so leav that tension aside --> > > > I am till today find only one grp headed by sri Umang taneja doing> > successfully using these planets ,and they r ready to teach any body> > --and its not a close gaurded secret ,but i find they r using some yogas> > and not in dasa or transit with my one day interaction with him --he> > happily explained all techniqs and ready to reveal u any thing only my> > time barrier and lack of finance ( as they use differrent ayanamsa and i> > dont hav their software which cost around 15000 2 years back)stopped me> > .And he is not practising and only teaches u as he himself is a business> > man and his many sisyas already started doing practise.And since i am> > not under any oath i will guide any body to him and give his details or> > books> > > > Hope now we can demonstrate some methods other than --he was using,they> > r from 15 generation back - tall claims --so no head ache of this sloka> > business also ,as one ounce of experince is bettet than a ton of> > knowledge.> > > > Again i clarify here i am not writing this lines to hurt any body> > personaly and sunil john is my personal frnd ( i took that free dom here> > ).Where we discuss many other things abt jyothish privately also .This> > post is purely subjuct oriented --and i thought 2 days to write it> > --shud i do it or not and finaly decided to write .> > > > any body can reply this depends on their time availability and i am only> > interested to keep the subjuct alive .> > > > wishing u all the best> > > > regrds sunil nair> > > > om shreem mahalxami namah.> > > > > > > > > > , "jjnet2000_in"> > <jjnet2000_in@> wrote:> > >> > > Om Datta Guru> > >> > > Dear Robert,> > > Though I had walked off this list long back due to the racist remark> > but> > > was compelled to write in ur defense as I know u are a genuine seeker> > of> > > this shastra. This mail is not intended just for u :-> > > I feel we have a different problem its not about whether Outer Planets> > > were written by our sages but do we have the Open Mind to understand> > > jyotish, is it a growing science. Do the planets behave differently in> > > different yugas (clues to this have been given in many old books), so> > > should we alter our thinking.> > >> > > 1) We do not have even 1-5 % of the ancient books so debating if outer> > > planets were written in the old books is fruitless especially since> > > there are hundreds of books in libraries and at homes which are yet to> > > be translated. Even the few nadis with me are gathering dust though i> > > have begged Good scholars of sanskrit to translate it and they are> > > unable to do so. Sometimes I feel if Nadi work is meant for everyone> > > e.g Santhanam died all of a sudden when he had almost finished Bhrigu> > > Nadi & who ever has touched Bhrigu Nadi has faced unsurmountable> > > problems. I wish he had brought it out, he had said all works aside> > and> > > Bhrigu Nadi in one side, thats the worth of it.> > >> > > 2) If KNRao challenged the marathi astrologers this must be taken in> > > another context, we must understand Rao Sahebs strength & weakness> > first> > > (this is not meant to demean him) - one of his own mentor in mundane> > > astrology the Late Hardeo Sharma Trivedi used to use Outer Planets> > > fantastically in his predictions and is till date one of the greatest> > > predictors of mundane astrology.> > >> > > 3) Ramans grandfather often said to him forget the shloka business see> > > what works that is True astrology, so running behind shlokas for it is> > > useless. Then even if shlokas are presented whats the use, can anyone> > > today interpret it, I have not found a true knowledgeable guy in> > > sanskrit.> > >> > > 4) Current breed of scholars are self appointed scholars who have zero> > > level of scientific mind and do not test any principle. thousands of> > > shlokas do not work what do they have to say to that. So should we> > > discard all the works of the Rishis who wrote it. Rishis do not agree> > to> > > the effects of even something as a planet in a house, different> > opinions> > > among rishis> > >> > > 5) The Late P.S.Iyer whom Rao Saheb also says was one of the most> > > fantastic astrologer used to predict to the DAY every event, he used> > to> > > use the Outer Planets.> > >> > > 6) 4 hrs from Bombay is a person still alive who was brought up in a> > > tradition where books from Lopi Script were handed down to him, for 25> > > yrs he was taught astrology and only after that he was asked to see> > his> > > first chart & practice jyotish (the money he takes is in form of> > > donation, he does not see the amount given & donates it full). I have> > > not met an astrologer like him, of all the astrologers i have met and> > > interacted he is the only guy I know who can UNLOCK a chart. He was> > > introduced to me by an Ex-SJC Mumbai person and I have vowed not to> > take> > > current breed of astrologers to him, they do not deserve him. I always> > > say if people on the lists from india knew astrology they would not> > have> > > spare time to write here as flock of people would be outside their> > > house. This man has a daily visitation of 100 people and he drives the> > > rest away. He uses Outer Planets and his parampara is of more than 14> > > generations, at that time the world did not even know of Outer> > Planets.> > > I asked him to share the shlokas from his family, he said can u or> > > anyone read them, then do u all have the ability to decode it, whats> > the> > > use of getting into scholarly mode that 'Only when u see the shloka u> > > would believe, forget shlokas test the technique only then u would> > learn> > > astrology' - he told me.> > >> > > I have begged him to come out with a book but he refuses, this vidya> > is> > > only misused by egoists so he does not want a curse of sharing that> > > knowledge to such readers. He is a DashaGranthi Brahmin btw, my> > efforts> > > still continue in him bringing at least a basic book.> > >> > > 7) Our astrology in current form is useless in a deeper sense, we> > > realise that when we read ChandraKala Nadi (Devekerelam) & to a> > certain> > > extent Bhavartha Ratnakara for e.g> > >> > > 8) Narendra Desai the greatest astrologer to walk into america as per> > > most senior astrologers in america had seen the text of Vasistha Nadi> > > wherein Outer Planets was mentioned and we all know how fantastic a> > > predictor he was, ofcourse his breed will never be born again. People> > on> > > lists will sit here whole life arguing that Outer Planets are not> > > mentioned in classics but no one has the guts to test it on 100 charts> > > with an open mind. Only when we test we realise what we are missing> > and> > > alas we say we hide behind Parasara's back as if we know everything> > that> > > he said. We cant even interpret his shlokas well. If we read first 2> > > chapters of BPHS and UNDERSTAND what he is trying to say (which is> > > understandable as it is in clear english) we would know that he is not> > > going to reveal everything that is astrology at all so its useless to> > > hide behind his back.> > > Shri Narendra Desai had a saying 'Do not listen to what people say,> > this> > > Uranus works and it works too well'.> > >> > > 9) People say that the issue is not if outerplanets takes 100 yrs blah> > > blah to move from a sign, what about Jupiter it takes only 1 yr, can> > we> > > say with all honesty that we understand how Jupiter is going to give> > > results in a chart or say any other planet in jyotish - ofcourse not> > we> > > do not know Jyotish as to even what Jyotish Is - this is the truth and> > > can be found out when we meet masters who had some knowledge of this> > > science.> > >> > > 10) Jyotish is an internal Sadhana which requires Bhakti of the> > highest> > > order and people who are argumentative, have anger, have jealousy,> > want> > > to put others down, have ego, have need for fame or getting themselves> > > shown as scholars will never understand it in this or any lifetime.> > Even> > > Parasara and other sages have mentioned the above criteria, I guess> > they> > > were not fools. This vidya is of Sanyasi's and not common man, anyone> > > who has travelled in search of true jyotish n met masters will realise> > > this statement as he will often find this answer staring right at his> > > face.> > >> > > I appreciate people like u who have tested the outer planets in over> > > hundred charts, u are far better off than us who only talk talk talk> > or> > > hide behind shlokas and we cant even test the shlokas that we know on> > > 100 charts.> > >> > > To end this,' We do not understand what the sages have said so getting> > > into arguments or discussions and says Sages said this or that is> > > Absurdity'> > >> > > best wishes> > > Sunil John> > > Mumbai> > > P.S: To others pls do not waste ur energy in replying to this mail, I> > do> > > not have the time or inclination to read it.> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > , Robert Koch rk@> > > wrote:> > > >> > > > Namah Shivaya> > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~> > > >> > > > Dear Mr. Nair,> > > >> > > > Thank you for your post as well, which, although much less cynical> > > > than the responses of Sreenadh-ji, poses some good points. I too> > > > have argued for years since embarking on an ambitious study of> > > > Jyotish in 1984 that Uranus, Neptune and Pluto have no place within> > > > the practice of classical Jyotish. What naksatras do they rule? Who> > > > is their Devata, etc.? But my original stoicism toward these planets> > > > has changed due to undeniable experience of their> > > > affects. Astrologers must bring different approaches to the table as> > > > to the usefulness of these planets in actual astrological practice,> > > > rather than endless parrot-like quoting of shastras in an effort to> > > > dismiss them. There are those whose habit is to disable or ignore> > > > new approaches based on scriptural and classical reference, and then> > > > there are those who seek to find out in practice if they work or not> > > > or are useful. I prefer to take the latter route frankly.> > > >> > > > Let me make my point more clear: I believe in the active and> > > > enthusiastic efforts to try, research, and investigate the various> > > > methods of astrology being put forth. If there is even an inkling of> > > > reference to Vasishta Nadi, or Kapila Nadi as to Uranus, Neptune and> > > > Pluto, or if stalwarts in the field for whom I have great respect> > (as> > > > an example, Sri Chandulal S. Patel who did extensive research on the> > > > use of outer planets) then I personally will not sit on my hands> > > > until I have seen their effect in at least 100 charts. The fact is,> > > > that if transit Pluto moves over the lagna or Moon of the chart, you> > > > will not be able to deny the life-changing events and affects that> > > > such transits bring forward. This has been my observation testing it> > > > in hundreds of charts in a period of 23 years. There are various> > > > progression methods too practiced by both Nadi astrologers as well> > as> > > > western astrologers, and these will bring very specific events to> > our> > > > awareness referencing these outer planets as well.> > > >> > > > However, you are right, if Sri K.N. Rao challenged some Marathi> > > > astrologers to demonstrate their researches on outer planets, then> > > > the latter should have come forward to prove their point.> > > >> > > > Anyway, so how will we use our classical knowledge then? To dismiss> > > > or negate, or to rejuvenate the energy of discovery by trial and> > > > error, research and investigation? It is all up to the disposition> > > > of the individual astrologer and how he/she sees the learning and> > > > practice of this great science. If I think for a moment that my> > > > technique or knowledge is sufficient, and all the while I have not> > > > practically tested even what I do know on a multiplicity of charts,> > > > then Jyotish becomes a dry, intellectual hobby at best. Then it only> > > > serves to reinforce the ego of the astrologer, rather than becoming> > a> > > > vehicle to uplift and enlighten others. If, however, the astrologer> > > > continually tries, tests, and researches, then he keeps the science> > > > alive and you may be surprised how many secrets are revealed to a> > > > person with that attitude toward his practice.> > > >> > > > With best regards, and no disrespect intended toward anyone -> > > >> > > > Robert> > > >> > > > At 01:48 AM 7/5/2007, you wrote:> > > >> > > > >Hare rama krishna,> > > > >> > > > >dear robertji,> > > > >> > > > > Thanks for your post.> > > > >> > > > >But as seekers of truth and holders of light called jyothisha> > > > >should we go by some stray references which quoted by some one in> > > > >some group or we shud look for its textual reference.in tamil or> > > > >sanskrit ,as most of naadis in this laungage and quote the page> > > > >--line of concerned books.> > > > >> > > > >my observations.> > > > >> > > > >1)this planets stays more years and transit in ones life is> > > > >negligible as almost 100 or more years it stays in one rasi> > > > >> > > > > 2) There is no graha --khetra allotted to this planets by vedic> > > > > seers,like ucha ,swa or neecha .> > > > >> > > > >3)There is no dasa periods as its important in delination of> > results.> > > > >> > > > >4) their nature ,karaka and frndly and enmy planets r not> > identified> > > > >again important in vedic style of delination of results.> > > > >> > > > >And i read --i dont hav text--in varaha hora --varahmihira> > describes> > > > >--there are 100s crores of planets are there but we take only 7> > > > >planets and 2 chaya grahs ( its some thing like grhanam shatha kodi> > > > >---- like this --may be sree nath can help me ),as only this> > planets> > > > >can influence in ecliptical path of earth .> > > > >> > > > >Also one naadi astrology people under the team of sri Taneja of> > > > >delhi uses this planets as i was told he was taught this method by> > > > >one J C LUTRA ,again i dont know whats their sourse,and i could not> > > > >test it as they use differrent ayanamsha and charges 15000/- or> > some> > > > >for software ,so i leav it> > > > >> > > > >Once in one astro conference held and chaired by BV raman ,sri KN> > > > >rao challenged all marathi astrologers to prove those who uses> > extra> > > > >sataurnian planets ,all shied away ,most of them were famous> > > astrologers> > > > >> > > > >i heard in mahabharath vedvyas mentiones indra varuna,rudra dring> > > > >the time of war --yes i dont hav that part with me now> > > > >> > > > >But its more mundane as a bloody distructive war.> > > > >> > > > >pls produce textual support.> > > > >> > > > >regrds sunil nair> > > > >> > > > >om shreem mahalaxmai namah.> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > , Robert Koch rk@> > > wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > Namaste Prafulla,> > > > > >> > > > > > At 08:56 AM 7/4/2007, you wrote:> > > > > > >Dear Sir> > > > > > >> > > > > > >Harshal, Neptune etc are referred in one of the nadi..I do not> > > > > > >remember..one of the jyotish forum member shared that on> > another> > > > > > >thread in another forum.> > > > > >> > > > > > Yes, according to my sources also, Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto> > are> > > > > > taught in Vasishta and Kapila Nadis.> > > > > >> > > > > > Best regards,> > > > > > Robert Koch> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > >regards / Prafulla Gang> > > > > > >http://www.prafulla.net> > > > > > >> > > > > > >"The right to be heard does not automatically include the right> > > to> > > > > > >be taken seriously."> > > > > > >************************************************> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > navagraha@> > > > > > > > ! Wed, 4 Jul 2007 09:02:47 -0400> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Re: Re: Importance of> > > Bhava Chart> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Namaste Sreenadh,> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > There are astrologers in Maharashatra that give absolutely> > > brilliant> > > > > > > > predictions. They use Hershel, Neptune etc. Rarely use> > dashas.> > > I agree> > > > > > > > with> > > > > > > > you that Hershel and neptune have no classical standing.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > I personally do not think hershel and neptune don't need to> > be> > > used to> > > > > > > > give> > > > > > > > predictions. Quest for Pramana in classics is the way to go.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > ...> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > On 7/4/07, Sreenadh sreesog@ wrote:> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >> Dear Prafulla ji,> > > > > > > >> I don't know. That is not my domai! n as well. I am after> > > ancient> > > > > > > >> Indian astrology - in a continuing search for the> > originals.> > > That is> > > > > > > >> the only thing I can say.> > > > > > > >> Love,> > > > > > > >> Sreenadh> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >> --- In> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > >> > > > >> > >> >> <%40yaho\> > \> > > ogroups.com>,> > > > > > > >> Prafulla Gang> > > > > > > >> jyotish@ wrote:> > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>> Dear Sreenadh ji> > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>> I am not familiar with history of jyotish and sanskrit as> > > well. But> > > > > > > >> In my observation - most traditionalist in northern India> > use> > > bhava> > > > > > > >> chalit chart for quite accurate predictions. If it does not> > > make> > > > > > > >> sense, then how come predictions are so accurate?> > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>> regards / Prafulla Gang> > > > > > > >>> http://www.prafulla.net> > > > > > > & !> > > > >gt;>>> > > > > > > >>> "The right to be heard does not automatically include the> > > right to> > > > > > > >> be taken seriously."> > > > > > > >>> ************************************************> > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > >>>> sreesog@> > > > > > > >>>> Tue, 03 Jul 2007 05:59:46 -0000> > > > > > > >>>> To:> > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >> > > > >> > >> >> <%40yaho\> > \> > > ogroups.com>> > > > > > > >>>> Re: Importance of> > Bhava> > > Chart> > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > >>>> Dear Kannan ji,> > > > > > > >>>> There is "no seperate bhava chart"; the Rasi chart itself> > > is the> > > > > > > >>>> bhava chart. Considering bhava chart as a seperate entity> > > originated> > > > > > ! > >>>> after the period of Sripati of 10th centuary AD. It is> > > misleading> > > > > > > >>>> concept similar to considering Navamsa as a seperate> > chart> > > not> > > > > > > >>>> supported by ancient sages.> > > > > > > >>>> You can find more info regarding the same from the> > > following file> > > > > > > >>>> present in the file section of the group.> > > > > > > >>>> URL:> > > > > > > >>>>> > > > >> > > Sreenadh/> > > > > > > >>>> Signs and Houses.pdf> > > > > > > >>>> As you could see there is no point in discussing> > > non-existent things> > > > > > > >>>> which are not supported by the sages; as of me I trying> > to> > > > > understand> > > > > > > >>>> what they taught, as per their own words. [And therefore> > > any> > > > > > > >>>> discussion on Bhava, considering it not the same as sign,> > > is not my> > > > > > > >>>> domain]> > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > & !> > > > >gt; >>>> ==>> > > > > > > >>>>> For eg. Jupiter an important planet for Scorpio Lagna> > > placed in> > > > > > > >>>>> Makara in Rasi (debilitation) and in Dhanu in Bhava (own> > > sign).> > > > > > > >>>> <==> > > > > > > >>>> As you could see, this is absurd. For Scorpio Lagna,> > Ju> > > in> > > > > > > >>>> Capricorn (Makara) rasi, is in 3rd house (bhava), and is> > > > > in Capricorn> > > > > > > >>>> sign. (Sign and house being the same). This is the> > ancient> > > concept;> > > > > > > >>>> and the result derivation would be as per that. > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > >>>> ==>> > > > > > > >>>>> In continuation to our earlier discussions on> > > > > > > >>>>> Retrogression, in this example Jupiter is Retrograde and> > > placed in> > > > > > > >>>>> Meena in Navamsa. How much is the effect of> > > debilitation/own sign> > > > > > ! > >>>>> in this case.> > > > > > > >>>> <==> > > > > > > >>>> That is an entirely different subject (i.e. how to> > > interpret Sign> > > > > > > >>>> and Navamsa results) and would discussed later.> > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > >>>> ==>> > > > > > > >>>>> Last but not the least I am eagerly waiting for your> > next> > > file on> > > > > > > >>>>> birth time rectification.> > > > > > > >>>> <==> > > > > > > >>>> Yes, this is one thing in the urgent task list. I will> > > try to> > > > > > > >>>> complete it by next Saturday or prior to that. > > > > > > > >>>> Love,> > > > > > > >>>> Sreenadh> > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > >>>> --- In> > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >> > > > >> > >> >> <%40yaho\> > \> > > ogroups.com>,> > > > > > > >> "kankan_73"> > > > > > > >>> & g!> > > > >t; <kankan_73@> wrote:> > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>> Dear Sreenadh ji,> > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>> Please tell me something on the importance of Bhava> > Chart.> > > Do this> > > > > > > >>>>> chart has importance like Navamsa. I have seen> > mentioning> > > of bhava> > > > > > > >>>>> position (if different from Rasi Chart) while mentioning> > > Planetary> > > > > > > >>>>> results in old Jathakams written by Kerala astrologers.> > > What is> > > > > > > >>>> the> > > > > > > >>>>> result if an important planet is posited in different> > > signs in Rasi> > > > > > > >>>>> and Bhava.> > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>> For eg. Jupiter an important planet for Scorpio Lagna> > > placed in> > > > > > > >>>>> Makara in Rasi (debilitation) and in Dhanu in Bhava (own> > > sign).> > > > > > > >>> & g!> > > > >t; How> > > > > > > >>>>> do we analyze this. In contin uation to our earlier> > > discussions on> > > > > > > >>>>> Retrogression, in this example Jupiter is Retrograde and> > > placed in> > > > > > > >>>>> Meena in Navamsa. How much is the effect of> > > debilitation/own sign> > > > > > > >>>> in> > > > > > > >>>>> this case.> > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>> I request you to give your views on Bhava vs Rasi> > > > > > > >>>>> differences/effects in general and also your view on the> > > above> > > > > > > >>>>> example.> > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>> Last but not the least I am eagerly waiting for your> > next> > > file on> > > > > > > >>>>> birth time rectification.> > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>> Thanks & regards,> > > > > > > >>>>> Kannan> > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > >>> & !> > > > >gt;> > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > >>>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2007 Report Share Posted July 9, 2007 Dear Sunil ji, Well Said! I absolutely agree with you. Point -1: ==> > we are here to share and use and research and if possible > re-establish the principles and re gain the lost glory of good > old astrology. <== Point -2: ==> > Lot of dirt, manipulations and misinterpretations has accumulated > in astrological literature. And if some one is expressing concern > and guarding it, it should not further corrupted by further > additions and neo theories . <== Point -3: ==> > Any reference on astrological principles will be passed through that > quality control test .At least from my part .And I don't want a > image of good boy in forum by keeping my heads in sand . > I still expect serious students and researchers come out and let us > test any principle forwarded by any one. As astrology can be > researched only by joint efforts and as an individual every body > will have their own limitations …….> Any theory has to go through > strict testing and trial and error method <== Point -4 ==> > --all astro principles propounded by different rishis r still > worked out by lacs of students on different part of world ,I don't > think no body is doing it just by parroting it and accepting like > fatwa. That is why this time tested principles we called classics. <== I love the way you puts it! It seems that the importance of those 4 points is also in the said order! Love, Sreenadh , " sunil nair " <astro_tellerkerala wrote: > > > Hare ramakrishna, > > dear sreenadhji, > > Thanks for encouraging remarks and words. > > But still i am having the fear that all discussions is going to only > like debating on pro and anti like some differrent ideological or > religious group and no body comes out with working model which can be > replicated with atleast 80% of the charts . > > Every body forgets that we r here to share and use and reserch and if > possible re establish the principles and re gain the lost glory of good > old astrology and astrologers like rajajyothishis of yore.Lot of dirt > ,manipulations and mis intrepretations has accumulated in astrological > literature. And if some one is expressing concern and gaurding it, it > should not further corrupted by further additions and neo theoreys . > Atleast we hav a duty as astro lovers to keep this sastra from the > clutches of branded astrologers who float daily new new theoreys with > the help of new devlped technologies making maximum use for their > personal benefit and own branding of image .If u accept it and forget > your duties then we all will hav to pay hefty price for our ignorence. > > So any reference on astrological principles will be passed tru that > quality control test .Atleast from my part .And i dont want a image of > good boy in forum by keeping my heads in sand . > > So i still expect serious students and reserchers come out and let us > test any principle forwarded by any one .As astrology can be reserched > only by joint efforts and as an individual every body will hav their own > limitations .Here there is no ego problem ,but any theorey has to go tru > strict testing and trial and error method --all astro principles > propounded by differrent rishis r still worked out by lacs of students > on differrent part of world ,i dont think no body is doing it just by > parroting it and accepting like fatwa.Thats why this time tested > priciples we called classics. > > Any way thanks for supporting and your mentioning of regrding flow of > words i think u hav more ashirvad of mother saraswathi than me .I always > like your style of writing . > > with thanks and regrds > > sunil nair > > om shreem mahalaxmai namah. > > > > > , " Sreenadh " > <sreesog@> wrote: > > > > Wow! That is great! From where you are getting these flow of words! > > Sorry..Sunil ji...I couldn't resitst it. I think I too wished to > > express similar idea, but couldn't find the words. > > Love, > > Sreenadh > > > > , " sunil nair " > > astro_tellerkerala@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hare ramakrishna, > > > > > > dear sunil john and robertji, > > > > > > I must point out here that this a forum of learning .And no body is > > > here perfect in the art ,if so why we should join here as not very > many > > > people seeking predictions are entertained here .And so future > business > > > prospects r not there. > > > > > > Let us Not be like some 2 religious enthusiastics debating whose > > > religion is better . > > > > > > Here the main discussion is whether the outer saturnian planets can > be > > > used in individual charts and predictions and how its behaving in > > > various charts ,if so how we can arrive at .And also please not that > no > > > body is here right now interested in mundane as first every body is > > > after their own fate then only national or international approach > starts > > > and its one of the discarded area as lack of encourage ment from > public > > > or government . > > > > > > These planets being used in mundane prediction cannot be ruled out > as it > > > takes long time to move out of a rasi and may be influencing some > part > > > of world or triggerring some events or being some planets as big as > all > > > the other planets put togetther may be influencing yugas also . > > > > > > Yes many pointed out That this extra saturnian planets is not used > > > Vedic Astrology and many popular naadis .some r pointed that its used > in > > > some naadis and its mentioned in mahabharath period onwards.All > these > > > points atleast i know ,only question is how can we use in kundalies > > > > > > In vedic astrology and naadi astrology i find the people who use > planets > > > other than this planets has advantage of allready revealed things by > > > rishis and sidhas. > > > > > > Now coming to point > > > > > > all other planets has well established rules for predictions > formulated > > > by rishis. > > > > > > Like all planets they given karakatwa,signs ,moolkshetra ,ucha > ,neecha > > > signs ,transit periods ,and its effects ,charactrestics ,ruling > parts in > > > human body ,in face and in hand ,hand lines.and their behavior > ,ruling > > > classes of people ,ruling areas ibn india and world,ruling > > > laungauges,planetarydevatas,ruling nakhsatras,swaroopas > > > ,mantras,gunas,ruling metals,their taste,flowers,animals > > > ,plants,trees,professions ruled by this planets,perfumes,raagas in > music > > > ,body parts,vastu ,human relation ship like sun is father. its > colors > > > ,precious stones,qualities like anger,humours like vat ,pitta. > > > seasons,castes like working groups.Pancha bhootas (ruling elements > like > > > fire ,earth),directions like north ,west, diseases ,educational > > > portfolios,vehicles,places of worship,their physical > > > appearance,spices,house hold articles,their frndly planets and enmy > > > planets and more important things is its dasa > periods-----------these r > > > the thing we need minimum to delinate results in prashan and charts > in > > > individual predictions. > > > > > > Now to sri.robertji ----since u used in testing in many charts now > pluto > > > is moving tru dhanus rasi --so whats the effect for people who is > > > dhanus(sagitarius ) rasi and lagna and moon sign --is it positive > and > > > negetive ,so readers can test it and we will come to comfortable > > > conclusion.What are the effects u said --as u said they feel the > change. > > > > > > Now to sri sunil john > > > > > > U said abt some savants of astro uses in predictions --what method > > > ,absense of that how we can be for sure . > > > > > > May be hardeo sharma uses --but in mundane but my information is he > is > > > from ujjain school of astrology propounded by varahamihira and he > uses > > > lot of secret chakras ,P S iyyer i doubt as he is from pure kerala > > > paramapara --still i am yet to confront some one who uses these > planets > > > in kerala with parampara techniqs.In kerala i find various other > > > techniqs in astro . > > > > > > U see KAS,KP and sistems appraoch all of them demonstrated there own > > > techniq and nothing is hidden from readers or practisioners ,and > they r > > > not telling u r impure and u r not entitled to get this knowledge > .Among > > > them atleast this KAS-ashta varga astrologers are saying its rishi > > > proktha knowledge > > > > > > Your reference abt that marathi astrologer is good and keep ur vow > not > > > show any astrologer students to him --good and fine > > > > > > But dont high lite that he charges nothing and donates evrything he > > > lives on air and his bills are paid automaticaly ---i am yet to find > > > such a spiritual personality in india since budha ( who was > > > begging---taking alms).I think atleast his data is un doubted and > > > scietific and proved by historians.Yes i find one keralite jain > lives on > > > sun energy and he is a business man who charges for his services and > > > goods--it is proved by NASA > > > > > > Also regrding santanams death ---no doubt its not curse of brigu > --its > > > society has not supported him and he was doing all from his pocket > and > > > by publishing books --even these days --u cannot cover any of ur > > > expenses ,so may be personal problems or family problems as no body > > > wants such father ,or husband who is a fool who waistes money and > > > efforts to some unproductiv ventures ,as i heard it was a unnatural > > > death.So do we need to spread anthaviswas. > > > > > > I recently heard one student of Mr .K N rao successfully find > > > combination from brigu naadi to predict important events in life > like > > > marriage ,professions ups and downs and status ,children etc ,he is > from > > > rich back ground ,so muni brigu not cursed him . > > > > > > And u know --one american who translated yavana samhita --got 5 > crore > > > indian ruppes as sponsorship and i think that was guided by santanam > > > --what he got being a spiritual indian . > > > > > > As far sanskrit if u want there r good pundits still there and only > u > > > pay him well as they need to support their families well and they > has a > > > right to liv a decent life . > > > > > > Please dont think -These r not aimed at any personal attack --i > demands > > > every body approach the subjuct with rational and intellectual > approach > > > and pls dont say u r cursed and no right to get knowledge and dont > worry > > > abt knowledge getting corrupted as no body can do after studying a > > > subjuct for 20 or 25 years and so leav that tension aside -- > > > > > > I am till today find only one grp headed by sri Umang taneja doing > > > successfully using these planets ,and they r ready to teach any body > > > --and its not a close gaurded secret ,but i find they r using some > yogas > > > and not in dasa or transit with my one day interaction with him --he > > > happily explained all techniqs and ready to reveal u any thing only > my > > > time barrier and lack of finance ( as they use differrent ayanamsa > and i > > > dont hav their software which cost around 15000 2 years back) stopped > me > > > .And he is not practising and only teaches u as he himself is a > business > > > man and his many sisyas already started doing practise.And since i > am > > > not under any oath i will guide any body to him and give his details > or > > > books > > > > > > Hope now we can demonstrate some methods other than --he was > using,they > > > r from 15 generation back - tall claims --so no head ache of this > sloka > > > business also ,as one ounce of experince is bettet than a ton of > > > knowledge. > > > > > > Again i clarify here i am not writing this lines to hurt any body > > > personaly and sunil john is my personal frnd ( i took that free dom > here > > > ).Where we discuss many other things abt jyothish privately also > .This > > > post is purely subjuct oriented --and i thought 2 days to write it > > > --shud i do it or not and finaly decided to write . > > > > > > any body can reply this depends on their time availability and i am > only > > > interested to keep the subjuct alive . > > > > > > wishing u all the best > > > > > > regrds sunil nair > > > > > > om shreem mahalxami namah. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " jjnet2000_in " > > > <jjnet2000_in@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Om Datta Guru > > > > > > > > Dear Robert, > > > > Though I had walked off this list long back due to the racist > remark > > > but > > > > was compelled to write in ur defense as I know u are a genuine > seeker > > > of > > > > this shastra. This mail is not intended just for u :- > > > > I feel we have a different problem its not about whether Outer > Planets > > > > were written by our sages but do we have the Open Mind to > understand > > > > jyotish, is it a growing science. Do the planets behave > differently in > > > > different yugas (clues to this have been given in many old books), > so > > > > should we alter our thinking. > > > > > > > > 1) We do not have even 1-5 % of the ancient books so debating if > outer > > > > planets were written in the old books is fruitless especially > since > > > > there are hundreds of books in libraries and at homes which are > yet to > > > > be translated. Even the few nadis with me are gathering dust > though i > > > > have begged Good scholars of sanskrit to translate it and they are > > > > unable to do so. Sometimes I feel if Nadi work is meant for > everyone > > > > e.g Santhanam died all of a sudden when he had almost finished > Bhrigu > > > > Nadi & who ever has touched Bhrigu Nadi has faced unsurmountable > > > > problems. I wish he had brought it out, he had said all works > aside > > > and > > > > Bhrigu Nadi in one side, thats the worth of it. > > > > > > > > 2) If KNRao challenged the marathi astrologers this must be taken > in > > > > another context, we must understand Rao Sahebs strength & weakness > > > first > > > > (this is not meant to demean him) - one of his own mentor in > mundane > > > > astrology the Late Hardeo Sharma Trivedi used to use Outer Planets > > > > fantastically in his predictions and is till date one of the > greatest > > > > predictors of mundane astrology. > > > > > > > > 3) Ramans grandfather often said to him forget the shloka business > see > > > > what works that is True astrology, so running behind shlokas for > it is > > > > useless. Then even if shlokas are presented whats the use, can > anyone > > > > today interpret it, I have not found a true knowledgeable guy in > > > > sanskrit. > > > > > > > > 4) Current breed of scholars are self appointed scholars who have > zero > > > > level of scientific mind and do not test any principle. thousands > of > > > > shlokas do not work what do they have to say to that. So should we > > > > discard all the works of the Rishis who wrote it. Rishis do not > agree > > > to > > > > the effects of even something as a planet in a house, different > > > opinions > > > > among rishis > > > > > > > > 5) The Late P.S.Iyer whom Rao Saheb also says was one of the most > > > > fantastic astrologer used to predict to the DAY every event, he > used > > > to > > > > use the Outer Planets. > > > > > > > > 6) 4 hrs from Bombay is a person still alive who was brought up in > a > > > > tradition where books from Lopi Script were handed down to him, > for 25 > > > > yrs he was taught astrology and only after that he was asked to > see > > > his > > > > first chart & practice jyotish (the money he takes is in form of > > > > donation, he does not see the amount given & donates it full). I > have > > > > not met an astrologer like him, of all the astrologers i have met > and > > > > interacted he is the only guy I know who can UNLOCK a chart. He > was > > > > introduced to me by an Ex-SJC Mumbai person and I have vowed not > to > > > take > > > > current breed of astrologers to him, they do not deserve him. I > always > > > > say if people on the lists from india knew astrology they would > not > > > have > > > > spare time to write here as flock of people would be outside their > > > > house. This man has a daily visitation of 100 people and he drives > the > > > > rest away. He uses Outer Planets and his parampara is of more than > 14 > > > > generations, at that time the world did not even know of Outer > > > Planets. > > > > I asked him to share the shlokas from his family, he said can u or > > > > anyone read them, then do u all have the ability to decode it, > whats > > > the > > > > use of getting into scholarly mode that 'Only when u see the > shloka u > > > > would believe, forget shlokas test the technique only then u would > > > learn > > > > astrology' - he told me. > > > > > > > > I have begged him to come out with a book but he refuses, this > vidya > > > is > > > > only misused by egoists so he does not want a curse of sharing > that > > > > knowledge to such readers. He is a DashaGranthi Brahmin btw, my > > > efforts > > > > still continue in him bringing at least a basic book. > > > > > > > > 7) Our astrology in current form is useless in a deeper sense, we > > > > realise that when we read ChandraKala Nadi (Devekerelam) & to a > > > certain > > > > extent Bhavartha Ratnakara for e.g > > > > > > > > 8) Narendra Desai the greatest astrologer to walk into america as > per > > > > most senior astrologers in america had seen the text of Vasistha > Nadi > > > > wherein Outer Planets was mentioned and we all know how fantastic > a > > > > predictor he was, ofcourse his breed will never be born again. > People > > > on > > > > lists will sit here whole life arguing that Outer Planets are not > > > > mentioned in classics but no one has the guts to test it on 100 > charts > > > > with an open mind. Only when we test we realise what we are > missing > > > and > > > > alas we say we hide behind Parasara's back as if we know > everything > > > that > > > > he said. We cant even interpret his shlokas well. If we read first > 2 > > > > chapters of BPHS and UNDERSTAND what he is trying to say (which is > > > > understandable as it is in clear english) we would know that he is > not > > > > going to reveal everything that is astrology at all so its useless > to > > > > hide behind his back. > > > > Shri Narendra Desai had a saying 'Do not listen to what people > say, > > > this > > > > Uranus works and it works too well'. > > > > > > > > 9) People say that the issue is not if outerplanets takes 100 yrs > blah > > > > blah to move from a sign, what about Jupiter it takes only 1 yr, > can > > > we > > > > say with all honesty that we understand how Jupiter is going to > give > > > > results in a chart or say any other planet in jyotish - ofcourse > not > > > we > > > > do not know Jyotish as to even what Jyotish Is - this is the truth > and > > > > can be found out when we meet masters who had some knowledge of > this > > > > science. > > > > > > > > 10) Jyotish is an internal Sadhana which requires Bhakti of the > > > highest > > > > order and people who are argumentative, have anger, have jealousy, > > > want > > > > to put others down, have ego, have need for fame or getting > themselves > > > > shown as scholars will never understand it in this or any > lifetime. > > > Even > > > > Parasara and other sages have mentioned the above criteria, I > guess > > > they > > > > were not fools. This vidya is of Sanyasi's and not common man, > anyone > > > > who has travelled in search of true jyotish n met masters will > realise > > > > this statement as he will often find this answer staring right at > his > > > > face. > > > > > > > > I appreciate people like u who have tested the outer planets in > over > > > > hundred charts, u are far better off than us who only talk talk > talk > > > or > > > > hide behind shlokas and we cant even test the shlokas that we know > on > > > > 100 charts. > > > > > > > > To end this,' We do not understand what the sages have said so > getting > > > > into arguments or discussions and says Sages said this or that is > > > > Absurdity' > > > > > > > > best wishes > > > > Sunil John > > > > Mumbai > > > > P.S: To others pls do not waste ur energy in replying to this > mail, I > > > do > > > > not have the time or inclination to read it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Robert Koch rk@ > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Namah Shivaya > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > > > > > > > Dear Mr. Nair, > > > > > > > > > > Thank you for your post as well, which, although much less > cynical > > > > > than the responses of Sreenadh-ji, poses some good points. I too > > > > > have argued for years since embarking on an ambitious study of > > > > > Jyotish in 1984 that Uranus, Neptune and Pluto have no place > within > > > > > the practice of classical Jyotish. What naksatras do they rule? > Who > > > > > is their Devata, etc.? But my original stoicism toward these > planets > > > > > has changed due to undeniable experience of their > > > > > affects. Astrologers must bring different approaches to the > table as > > > > > to the usefulness of these planets in actual astrological > practice, > > > > > rather than endless parrot-like quoting of shastras in an effort > to > > > > > dismiss them. There are those whose habit is to disable or > ignore > > > > > new approaches based on scriptural and classical reference, and > then > > > > > there are those who seek to find out in practice if they work or > not > > > > > or are useful. I prefer to take the latter route frankly. > > > > > > > > > > Let me make my point more clear: I believe in the active and > > > > > enthusiastic efforts to try, research, and investigate the > various > > > > > methods of astrology being put forth. If there is even an > inkling of > > > > > reference to Vasishta Nadi, or Kapila Nadi as to Uranus, Neptune > and > > > > > Pluto, or if stalwarts in the field for whom I have great > respect > > > (as > > > > > an example, Sri Chandulal S. Patel who did extensive research on > the > > > > > use of outer planets) then I personally will not sit on my hands > > > > > until I have seen their effect in at least 100 charts. The fact > is, > > > > > that if transit Pluto moves over the lagna or Moon of the chart, > you > > > > > will not be able to deny the life-changing events and affects > that > > > > > such transits bring forward. This has been my observation > testing it > > > > > in hundreds of charts in a period of 23 years. There are various > > > > > progression methods too practiced by both Nadi astrologers as > well > > > as > > > > > western astrologers, and these will bring very specific events > to > > > our > > > > > awareness referencing these outer planets as well. > > > > > > > > > > However, you are right, if Sri K.N. Rao challenged some Marathi > > > > > astrologers to demonstrate their researches on outer planets, > then > > > > > the latter should have come forward to prove their point. > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, so how will we use our classical knowledge then? To > dismiss > > > > > or negate, or to rejuvenate the energy of discovery by trial and > > > > > error, research and investigation? It is all up to the > disposition > > > > > of the individual astrologer and how he/she sees the learning > and > > > > > practice of this great science. If I think for a moment that my > > > > > technique or knowledge is sufficient, and all the while I have > not > > > > > practically tested even what I do know on a multiplicity of > charts, > > > > > then Jyotish becomes a dry, intellectual hobby at best. Then it > only > > > > > serves to reinforce the ego of the astrologer, rather than > becoming > > > a > > > > > vehicle to uplift and enlighten others. If, however, the > astrologer > > > > > continually tries, tests, and researches, then he keeps the > science > > > > > alive and you may be surprised how many secrets are revealed to > a > > > > > person with that attitude toward his practice. > > > > > > > > > > With best regards, and no disrespect intended toward anyone - > > > > > > > > > > Robert > > > > > > > > > > At 01:48 AM 7/5/2007, you wrote: > > > > > > > > > > >Hare rama krishna, > > > > > > > > > > > >dear robertji, > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for your post. > > > > > > > > > > > >But as seekers of truth and holders of light called jyothisha > > > > > >should we go by some stray references which quoted by some one > in > > > > > >some group or we shud look for its textual reference.in tamil > or > > > > > >sanskrit ,as most of naadis in this laungage and quote the page > > > > > >--line of concerned books. > > > > > > > > > > > >my observations. > > > > > > > > > > > >1)this planets stays more years and transit in ones life is > > > > > >negligible as almost 100 or more years it stays in one rasi > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) There is no graha --khetra allotted to this planets by > vedic > > > > > > seers,like ucha ,swa or neecha . > > > > > > > > > > > >3)There is no dasa periods as its important in delination of > > > results. > > > > > > > > > > > >4) their nature ,karaka and frndly and enmy planets r not > > > identified > > > > > >again important in vedic style of delination of results. > > > > > > > > > > > >And i read --i dont hav text--in varaha hora --varahmihira > > > describes > > > > > >--there are 100s crores of planets are there but we take only 7 > > > > > >planets and 2 chaya grahs ( its some thing like grhanam shatha > kodi > > > > > >---- like this --may be sree nath can help me ),as only this > > > planets > > > > > >can influence in ecliptical path of earth . > > > > > > > > > > > >Also one naadi astrology people under the team of sri Taneja of > > > > > >delhi uses this planets as i was told he was taught this method > by > > > > > >one J C LUTRA ,again i dont know whats their sourse,and i could > not > > > > > >test it as they use differrent ayanamsha and charges 15000/- or > > > some > > > > > >for software ,so i leav it > > > > > > > > > > > >Once in one astro conference held and chaired by BV raman ,sri > KN > > > > > >rao challenged all marathi astrologers to prove those who uses > > > extra > > > > > >sataurnian planets ,all shied away ,most of them were famous > > > > astrologers > > > > > > > > > > > >i heard in mahabharath vedvyas mentiones indra varuna,rudra > dring > > > > > >the time of war --yes i dont hav that part with me now > > > > > > > > > > > >But its more mundane as a bloody distructive war. > > > > > > > > > > > >pls produce textual support. > > > > > > > > > > > >regrds sunil nair > > > > > > > > > > > >om shreem mahalaxmai namah. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Robert Koch > rk@ > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Prafulla, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At 08:56 AM 7/4/2007, you wrote: > > > > > > > >Dear Sir > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Harshal, Neptune etc are referred in one of the nadi..I do > not > > > > > > > >remember..one of the jyotish forum member shared that on > > > another > > > > > > > >thread in another forum. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, according to my sources also, Uranus, Neptune, and > Pluto > > > are > > > > > > > taught in Vasishta and Kapila Nadis. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > Robert Koch > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > > >http://www.prafulla.net > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " The right to be heard does not automatically include the > right > > > > to > > > > > > > >be taken seriously. " > > > > > > > >************************************************ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > navagraha@ > > > > > > > > > ! Wed, 4 Jul 2007 09:02:47 -0400 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Re: Re: Importance > of > > > > Bhava Chart > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Sreenadh, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are astrologers in Maharashatra that give > absolutely > > > > brilliant > > > > > > > > > predictions. They use Hershel, Neptune etc. Rarely use > > > dashas. > > > > I agree > > > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > you that Hershel and neptune have no classical standing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I personally do not think hershel and neptune don't need > to > > > be > > > > used to > > > > > > > > > give > > > > > > > > > predictions. Quest for Pramana in classics is the way to > go. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 7/4/07, Sreenadh sreesog@ wrote: > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> Dear Prafulla ji, > > > > > > > > >> I don't know. That is not my domai! n as well. I am > after > > > > ancient > > > > > > > > >> Indian astrology - in a continuing search for the > > > originals. > > > > That is > > > > > > > > >> the only thing I can say. > > > > > > > > >> Love, > > > > > > > > >> Sreenadh > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> --- In > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <% 40yaho\ > \ > > > \ > > > > ogroups.com>, > > > > > > > > >> Prafulla Gang > > > > > > > > >> jyotish@ wrote: > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> Dear Sreenadh ji > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> I am not familiar with history of jyotish and sanskrit > as > > > > well. But > > > > > > > > >> In my observation - most traditionalist in northern > India > > > use > > > > bhava > > > > > > > > >> chalit chart for quite accurate predictions. If it does > not > > > > make > > > > > > > > >> sense, then how come predictions are so accurate? > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > > > >>> http://www.prafulla.net > > > > > > > > & ! > > > > > >gt;>> > > > > > > > > >>> " The right to be heard does not automatically include > the > > > > right to > > > > > > > > >> be taken seriously. " > > > > > > > > >>> ************************************************ > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >>>> sreesog@ > > > > > > > > >>>> Tue, 03 Jul 2007 05:59:46 -0000 > > > > > > > > >>>> To: > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <% 40yaho\ > \ > > > \ > > > > ogroups.com> > > > > > > > > >>>> Re: Importance of > > > Bhava > > > > Chart > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >>>> Dear Kannan ji, > > > > > > > > >>>> There is " no seperate bhava chart " ; the Rasi chart > itself > > > > is the > > > > > > > > >>>> bhava chart. Considering bhava chart as a seperate > entity > > > > originated > > > > > > > ! > >>>> after the period of Sripati of 10th centuary AD. It > is > > > > misleading > > > > > > > > >>>> concept similar to considering Navamsa as a seperate > > > chart > > > > not > > > > > > > > >>>> supported by ancient sages. > > > > > > > > >>>> You can find more info regarding the same from the > > > > following file > > > > > > > > >>>> present in the file section of the group. > > > > > > > > >>>> URL: > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh/ > > > > > > > > >>>> Signs and Houses.pdf > > > > > > > > >>>> As you could see there is no point in discussing > > > > non-existent things > > > > > > > > >>>> which are not supported by the sages; as of me I > trying > > > to > > > > > > understand > > > > > > > > >>>> what they taught, as per their own words. [And > therefore > > > > any > > > > > > > > >>>> discussion on Bhava, considering it not the same as > sign, > > > > is not my > > > > > > > > >>>> domain] > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > & ! > > > > > >gt; >>>> ==> > > > > > > > > >>>>> For eg. Jupiter an important planet for Scorpio > Lagna > > > > placed in > > > > > > > > >>>>> Makara in Rasi (debilitation) and in Dhanu in Bhava > (own > > > > sign). > > > > > > > > >>>> <== > > > > > > > > >>>> As you could see, this is absurd. For Scorpio > Lagna, > > > Ju > > > > in > > > > > > > > >>>> Capricorn (Makara) rasi, is in 3rd house (bhava), and > is > > > > > > in Capricorn > > > > > > > > >>>> sign. (Sign and house being the same). This is the > > > ancient > > > > concept; > > > > > > > > >>>> and the result derivation would be as per that. > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >>>> ==> > > > > > > > > >>>>> In continuation to our earlier discussions on > > > > > > > > >>>>> Retrogression, in this example Jupiter is Retrograde > and > > > > placed in > > > > > > > > >>>>> Meena in Navamsa. How much is the effect of > > > > debilitation/own sign > > > > > > > ! > >>>>> in this case. > > > > > > > > >>>> <== > > > > > > > > >>>> That is an entirely different subject (i.e. how to > > > > interpret Sign > > > > > > > > >>>> and Navamsa results) and would discussed later. > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >>>> ==> > > > > > > > > >>>>> Last but not the least I am eagerly waiting for your > > > next > > > > file on > > > > > > > > >>>>> birth time rectification. > > > > > > > > >>>> <== > > > > > > > > >>>> Yes, this is one thing in the urgent task list. I > will > > > > try to > > > > > > > > >>>> complete it by next Saturday or prior to that. > > > > > > > > >>>> Love, > > > > > > > > >>>> Sreenadh > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >>>> --- In > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <% 40yaho\ > \ > > > \ > > > > ogroups.com>, > > > > > > > > >> " kankan_73 " > > > > > > > > >>> & g! > > > > > >t; <kankan_73@> wrote: > > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > > >>>>> Dear Sreenadh ji, > > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > > >>>>> Please tell me something on the importance of Bhava > > > Chart. > > > > Do this > > > > > > > > >>>>> chart has importance like Navamsa. I have seen > > > mentioning > > > > of bhava > > > > > > > > >>>>> position (if different from Rasi Chart) while > mentioning > > > > Planetary > > > > > > > > >>>>> results in old Jathakams written by Kerala > astrologers. > > > > What is > > > > > > > > >>>> the > > > > > > > > >>>>> result if an important planet is posited in > different > > > > signs in Rasi > > > > > > > > >>>>> and Bhava. > > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > > >>>>> For eg. Jupiter an important planet for Scorpio > Lagna > > > > placed in > > > > > > > > >>>>> Makara in Rasi (debilitation) and in Dhanu in Bhava > (own > > > > sign). > > > > > > > > >>> & g! > > > > > >t; How > > > > > > > > >>>>> do we analyze this. In contin uation to our earlier > > > > discussions on > > > > > > > > >>>>> Retrogression, in this example Jupiter is Retrograde > and > > > > placed in > > > > > > > > >>>>> Meena in Navamsa. How much is the effect of > > > > debilitation/own sign > > > > > > > > >>>> in > > > > > > > > >>>>> this case. > > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > > >>>>> I request you to give your views on Bhava vs Rasi > > > > > > > > >>>>> differences/effects in general and also your view on > the > > > > above > > > > > > > > >>>>> example. > > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > > >>>>> Last but not the least I am eagerly waiting for your > > > next > > > > file on > > > > > > > > >>>>> birth time rectification. > > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > > >>>>> Thanks & regards, > > > > > > > > >>>>> Kannan > > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >>> & ! > > > > > >gt; > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >>>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2007 Report Share Posted July 9, 2007 P:S: Sunil Nair pls give me some time will reply to ur mail though I had missed it completely.sunil john. Hare ramakrishna dear sunil hohn, Yes thanks i am waiting and take ur own time ,i expect a scholarly and well reserched answers from your side thanks u sunil nair om shreem mahalaxmai namah. , "sunil nair" <astro_tellerkerala wrote:>> > Hare ramakrishna,> > dear sunil john and robertji,> > I must point out here that this a forum of learning .And no body is> here perfect in the art ,if so why we should join here as not very many> people seeking predictions are entertained here .And so future business> prospects r not there.> > Let us Not be like some 2 religious enthusiastics debating whose> religion is better .> > Here the main discussion is whether the outer saturnian planets can be> used in individual charts and predictions and how its behaving in> various charts ,if so how we can arrive at .And also please not that no> body is here right now interested in mundane as first every body is> after their own fate then only national or international approach starts> and its one of the discarded area as lack of encourage ment from public> or government .> > These planets being used in mundane prediction cannot be ruled out as it> takes long time to move out of a rasi and may be influencing some part> of world or triggerring some events or being some planets as big as all> the other planets put togetther may be influencing yugas also .> > Yes many pointed out That this extra saturnian planets is not used> Vedic Astrology and many popular naadis .some r pointed that its used in> some naadis and its mentioned in mahabharath period onwards.All these> points atleast i know ,only question is how can we use in kundalies> > In vedic astrology and naadi astrology i find the people who use planets> other than this planets has advantage of allready revealed things by> rishis and sidhas.> > Now coming to point> > all other planets has well established rules for predictions formulated> by rishis.> > Like all planets they given karakatwa,signs ,moolkshetra ,ucha ,neecha> signs ,transit periods ,and its effects ,charactrestics ,ruling parts in> human body ,in face and in hand ,hand lines.and their behavior ,ruling> classes of people ,ruling areas ibn india and world,ruling> laungauges,planetarydevatas,ruling nakhsatras,swaroopas> ,mantras,gunas,ruling metals,their taste,flowers,animals> ,plants,trees,professions ruled by this planets,perfumes,raagas in music> ,body parts,vastu ,human relation ship like sun is father. its colors> ,precious stones,qualities like anger,humours like vat ,pitta.> seasons,castes like working groups.Pancha bhootas (ruling elements like> fire ,earth),directions like north ,west, diseases ,educational> portfolios,vehicles,places of worship,their physical> appearance,spices,house hold articles,their frndly planets and enmy> planets and more important things is its dasa periods-----------these r> the thing we need minimum to delinate results in prashan and charts in> individual predictions.> > Now to sri.robertji ----since u used in testing in many charts now pluto> is moving tru dhanus rasi --so whats the effect for people who is> dhanus(sagitarius ) rasi and lagna and moon sign --is it positive and> negetive ,so readers can test it and we will come to comfortable> conclusion.What are the effects u said --as u said they feel the change.> > Now to sri sunil john> > U said abt some savants of astro uses in predictions --what method> ,absense of that how we can be for sure .> > May be hardeo sharma uses --but in mundane but my information is he is> from ujjain school of astrology propounded by varahamihira and he uses> lot of secret chakras ,P S iyyer i doubt as he is from pure kerala> paramapara --still i am yet to confront some one who uses these planets> in kerala with parampara techniqs.In kerala i find various other> techniqs in astro .> > U see KAS,KP and sistems appraoch all of them demonstrated there own > techniq and nothing is hidden from readers or practisioners ,and they r> not telling u r impure and u r not entitled to get this knowledge .Among> them atleast this KAS-ashta varga astrologers are saying its rishi> proktha knowledge> > Your reference abt that marathi astrologer is good and keep ur vow not> show any astrologer students to him --good and fine> > But dont high lite that he charges nothing and donates evrything he> lives on air and his bills are paid automaticaly ---i am yet to find> such a spiritual personality in india since budha ( who was> begging---taking alms).I think atleast his data is un doubted and> scietific and proved by historians.Yes i find one keralite jain lives on> sun energy and he is a business man who charges for his services and> goods--it is proved by NASA> > Also regrding santanams death ---no doubt its not curse of brigu --its> society has not supported him and he was doing all from his pocket and> by publishing books --even these days --u cannot cover any of ur> expenses ,so may be personal problems or family problems as no body> wants such father ,or husband who is a fool who waistes money and> efforts to some unproductiv ventures ,as i heard it was a unnatural> death.So do we need to spread anthaviswas.> > I recently heard one student of Mr .K N rao successfully find> combination from brigu naadi to predict important events in life like> marriage ,professions ups and downs and status ,children etc ,he is from> rich back ground ,so muni brigu not cursed him .> > And u know --one american who translated yavana samhita --got 5 crore> indian ruppes as sponsorship and i think that was guided by santanam> --what he got being a spiritual indian .> > As far sanskrit if u want there r good pundits still there and only u> pay him well as they need to support their families well and they has a> right to liv a decent life .> > Please dont think -These r not aimed at any personal attack --i demands> every body approach the subjuct with rational and intellectual approach> and pls dont say u r cursed and no right to get knowledge and dont worry> abt knowledge getting corrupted as no body can do after studying a> subjuct for 20 or 25 years and so leav that tension aside --> > I am till today find only one grp headed by sri Umang taneja doing> successfully using these planets ,and they r ready to teach any body> --and its not a close gaurded secret ,but i find they r using some yogas> and not in dasa or transit with my one day interaction with him --he> happily explained all techniqs and ready to reveal u any thing only my> time barrier and lack of finance ( as they use differrent ayanamsa and i> dont hav their software which cost around 15000 2 years back)stopped me> .And he is not practising and only teaches u as he himself is a business> man and his many sisyas already started doing practise.And since i am> not under any oath i will guide any body to him and give his details or> books> > Hope now we can demonstrate some methods other than --he was using,they> r from 15 generation back - tall claims --so no head ache of this sloka> business also ,as one ounce of experince is bettet than a ton of> knowledge.> > Again i clarify here i am not writing this lines to hurt any body> personaly and sunil john is my personal frnd ( i took that free dom here> ).Where we discuss many other things abt jyothish privately also .This> post is purely subjuct oriented --and i thought 2 days to write it> --shud i do it or not and finaly decided to write .> > any body can reply this depends on their time availability and i am only> interested to keep the subjuct alive .> > wishing u all the best> > regrds sunil nair> > om shreem mahalxami namah.> > > > > , "jjnet2000_in"> jjnet2000_in@ wrote:> >> > Om Datta Guru> >> > Dear Robert,> > Though I had walked off this list long back due to the racist remark> but> > was compelled to write in ur defense as I know u are a genuine seeker> of> > this shastra. This mail is not intended just for u :-> > I feel we have a different problem its not about whether Outer Planets> > were written by our sages but do we have the Open Mind to understand> > jyotish, is it a growing science. Do the planets behave differently in> > different yugas (clues to this have been given in many old books), so> > should we alter our thinking.> >> > 1) We do not have even 1-5 % of the ancient books so debating if outer> > planets were written in the old books is fruitless especially since> > there are hundreds of books in libraries and at homes which are yet to> > be translated. Even the few nadis with me are gathering dust though i> > have begged Good scholars of sanskrit to translate it and they are> > unable to do so. Sometimes I feel if Nadi work is meant for everyone> > e.g Santhanam died all of a sudden when he had almost finished Bhrigu> > Nadi & who ever has touched Bhrigu Nadi has faced unsurmountable> > problems. I wish he had brought it out, he had said all works aside> and> > Bhrigu Nadi in one side, thats the worth of it.> >> > 2) If KNRao challenged the marathi astrologers this must be taken in> > another context, we must understand Rao Sahebs strength & weakness> first> > (this is not meant to demean him) - one of his own mentor in mundane> > astrology the Late Hardeo Sharma Trivedi used to use Outer Planets> > fantastically in his predictions and is till date one of the greatest> > predictors of mundane astrology.> >> > 3) Ramans grandfather often said to him forget the shloka business see> > what works that is True astrology, so running behind shlokas for it is> > useless. Then even if shlokas are presented whats the use, can anyone> > today interpret it, I have not found a true knowledgeable guy in> > sanskrit.> >> > 4) Current breed of scholars are self appointed scholars who have zero> > level of scientific mind and do not test any principle. thousands of> > shlokas do not work what do they have to say to that. So should we> > discard all the works of the Rishis who wrote it. Rishis do not agree> to> > the effects of even something as a planet in a house, different> opinions> > among rishis> >> > 5) The Late P.S.Iyer whom Rao Saheb also says was one of the most> > fantastic astrologer used to predict to the DAY every event, he used> to> > use the Outer Planets.> >> > 6) 4 hrs from Bombay is a person still alive who was brought up in a> > tradition where books from Lopi Script were handed down to him, for 25> > yrs he was taught astrology and only after that he was asked to see> his> > first chart & practice jyotish (the money he takes is in form of> > donation, he does not see the amount given & donates it full). I have> > not met an astrologer like him, of all the astrologers i have met and> > interacted he is the only guy I know who can UNLOCK a chart. He was> > introduced to me by an Ex-SJC Mumbai person and I have vowed not to> take> > current breed of astrologers to him, they do not deserve him. I always> > say if people on the lists from india knew astrology they would not> have> > spare time to write here as flock of people would be outside their> > house. This man has a daily visitation of 100 people and he drives the> > rest away. He uses Outer Planets and his parampara is of more than 14> > generations, at that time the world did not even know of Outer> Planets.> > I asked him to share the shlokas from his family, he said can u or> > anyone read them, then do u all have the ability to decode it, whats> the> > use of getting into scholarly mode that 'Only when u see the shloka u> > would believe, forget shlokas test the technique only then u would> learn> > astrology' - he told me.> >> > I have begged him to come out with a book but he refuses, this vidya> is> > only misused by egoists so he does not want a curse of sharing that> > knowledge to such readers. He is a DashaGranthi Brahmin btw, my> efforts> > still continue in him bringing at least a basic book.> >> > 7) Our astrology in current form is useless in a deeper sense, we> > realise that when we read ChandraKala Nadi (Devekerelam) & to a> certain> > extent Bhavartha Ratnakara for e.g> >> > 8) Narendra Desai the greatest astrologer to walk into america as per> > most senior astrologers in america had seen the text of Vasistha Nadi> > wherein Outer Planets was mentioned and we all know how fantastic a> > predictor he was, ofcourse his breed will never be born again. People> on> > lists will sit here whole life arguing that Outer Planets are not> > mentioned in classics but no one has the guts to test it on 100 charts> > with an open mind. Only when we test we realise what we are missing> and> > alas we say we hide behind Parasara's back as if we know everything> that> > he said. We cant even interpret his shlokas well. If we read first 2> > chapters of BPHS and UNDERSTAND what he is trying to say (which is> > understandable as it is in clear english) we would know that he is not> > going to reveal everything that is astrology at all so its useless to> > hide behind his back.> > Shri Narendra Desai had a saying 'Do not listen to what people say,> this> > Uranus works and it works too well'.> >> > 9) People say that the issue is not if outerplanets takes 100 yrs blah> > blah to move from a sign, what about Jupiter it takes only 1 yr, can> we> > say with all honesty that we understand how Jupiter is going to give> > results in a chart or say any other planet in jyotish - ofcourse not> we> > do not know Jyotish as to even what Jyotish Is - this is the truth and> > can be found out when we meet masters who had some knowledge of this> > science.> >> > 10) Jyotish is an internal Sadhana which requires Bhakti of the> highest> > order and people who are argumentative, have anger, have jealousy,> want> > to put others down, have ego, have need for fame or getting themselves> > shown as scholars will never understand it in this or any lifetime.> Even> > Parasara and other sages have mentioned the above criteria, I guess> they> > were not fools. This vidya is of Sanyasi's and not common man, anyone> > who has travelled in search of true jyotish n met masters will realise> > this statement as he will often find this answer staring right at his> > face.> >> > I appreciate people like u who have tested the outer planets in over> > hundred charts, u are far better off than us who only talk talk talk> or> > hide behind shlokas and we cant even test the shlokas that we know on> > 100 charts.> >> > To end this,' We do not understand what the sages have said so getting> > into arguments or discussions and says Sages said this or that is> > Absurdity'> >> > best wishes> > Sunil John> > Mumbai> > P.S: To others pls do not waste ur energy in replying to this mail, I> do> > not have the time or inclination to read it.> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > , Robert Koch rk@> > wrote:> > >> > > Namah Shivaya> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~> > >> > > Dear Mr. Nair,> > >> > > Thank you for your post as well, which, although much less cynical> > > than the responses of Sreenadh-ji, poses some good points. I too> > > have argued for years since embarking on an ambitious study of> > > Jyotish in 1984 that Uranus, Neptune and Pluto have no place within> > > the practice of classical Jyotish. What naksatras do they rule? Who> > > is their Devata, etc.? But my original stoicism toward these planets> > > has changed due to undeniable experience of their> > > affects. Astrologers must bring different approaches to the table as> > > to the usefulness of these planets in actual astrological practice,> > > rather than endless parrot-like quoting of shastras in an effort to> > > dismiss them. There are those whose habit is to disable or ignore> > > new approaches based on scriptural and classical reference, and then> > > there are those who seek to find out in practice if they work or not> > > or are useful. I prefer to take the latter route frankly.> > >> > > Let me make my point more clear: I believe in the active and> > > enthusiastic efforts to try, research, and investigate the various> > > methods of astrology being put forth. If there is even an inkling of> > > reference to Vasishta Nadi, or Kapila Nadi as to Uranus, Neptune and> > > Pluto, or if stalwarts in the field for whom I have great respect> (as> > > an example, Sri Chandulal S. Patel who did extensive research on the> > > use of outer planets) then I personally will not sit on my hands> > > until I have seen their effect in at least 100 charts. The fact is,> > > that if transit Pluto moves over the lagna or Moon of the chart, you> > > will not be able to deny the life-changing events and affects that> > > such transits bring forward. This has been my observation testing it> > > in hundreds of charts in a period of 23 years. There are various> > > progression methods too practiced by both Nadi astrologers as well> as> > > western astrologers, and these will bring very specific events to> our> > > awareness referencing these outer planets as well.> > >> > > However, you are right, if Sri K.N. Rao challenged some Marathi> > > astrologers to demonstrate their researches on outer planets, then> > > the latter should have come forward to prove their point.> > >> > > Anyway, so how will we use our classical knowledge then? To dismiss> > > or negate, or to rejuvenate the energy of discovery by trial and> > > error, research and investigation? It is all up to the disposition> > > of the individual astrologer and how he/she sees the learning and> > > practice of this great science. If I think for a moment that my> > > technique or knowledge is sufficient, and all the while I have not> > > practically tested even what I do know on a multiplicity of charts,> > > then Jyotish becomes a dry, intellectual hobby at best. Then it only> > > serves to reinforce the ego of the astrologer, rather than becoming> a> > > vehicle to uplift and enlighten others. If, however, the astrologer> > > continually tries, tests, and researches, then he keeps the science> > > alive and you may be surprised how many secrets are revealed to a> > > person with that attitude toward his practice.> > >> > > With best regards, and no disrespect intended toward anyone -> > >> > > Robert> > >> > > At 01:48 AM 7/5/2007, you wrote:> > >> > > >Hare rama krishna,> > > >> > > >dear robertji,> > > >> > > > Thanks for your post.> > > >> > > >But as seekers of truth and holders of light called jyothisha> > > >should we go by some stray references which quoted by some one in> > > >some group or we shud look for its textual reference.in tamil or> > > >sanskrit ,as most of naadis in this laungage and quote the page> > > >--line of concerned books.> > > >> > > >my observations.> > > >> > > >1)this planets stays more years and transit in ones life is> > > >negligible as almost 100 or more years it stays in one rasi> > > >> > > > 2) There is no graha --khetra allotted to this planets by vedic> > > > seers,like ucha ,swa or neecha .> > > >> > > >3)There is no dasa periods as its important in delination of> results.> > > >> > > >4) their nature ,karaka and frndly and enmy planets r not> identified> > > >again important in vedic style of delination of results.> > > >> > > >And i read --i dont hav text--in varaha hora --varahmihira> describes> > > >--there are 100s crores of planets are there but we take only 7> > > >planets and 2 chaya grahs ( its some thing like grhanam shatha kodi> > > >---- like this --may be sree nath can help me ),as only this> planets> > > >can influence in ecliptical path of earth .> > > >> > > >Also one naadi astrology people under the team of sri Taneja of> > > >delhi uses this planets as i was told he was taught this method by> > > >one J C LUTRA ,again i dont know whats their sourse,and i could not> > > >test it as they use differrent ayanamsha and charges 15000/- or> some> > > >for software ,so i leav it> > > >> > > >Once in one astro conference held and chaired by BV raman ,sri KN> > > >rao challenged all marathi astrologers to prove those who uses> extra> > > >sataurnian planets ,all shied away ,most of them were famous> > astrologers> > > >> > > >i heard in mahabharath vedvyas mentiones indra varuna,rudra dring> > > >the time of war --yes i dont hav that part with me now> > > >> > > >But its more mundane as a bloody distructive war.> > > >> > > >pls produce textual support.> > > >> > > >regrds sunil nair> > > >> > > >om shreem mahalaxmai namah.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > , Robert Koch rk@> > wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Namaste Prafulla,> > > > >> > > > > At 08:56 AM 7/4/2007, you wrote:> > > > > >Dear Sir> > > > > >> > > > > >Harshal, Neptune etc are referred in one of the nadi..I do not> > > > > >remember..one of the jyotish forum member shared that on> another> > > > > >thread in another forum.> > > > >> > > > > Yes, according to my sources also, Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto> are> > > > > taught in Vasishta and Kapila Nadis.> > > > >> > > > > Best regards,> > > > > Robert Koch> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > >regards / Prafulla Gang> > > > > >http://www.prafulla.net> > > > > >> > > > > >"The right to be heard does not automatically include the right> > to> > > > > >be taken seriously."> > > > > >************************************************> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > navagraha@> > > > > > > ! Wed, 4 Jul 2007 09:02:47 -0400> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Re: Re: Importance of> > Bhava Chart> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Namaste Sreenadh,> > > > > > >> > > > > > > There are astrologers in Maharashatra that give absolutely> > brilliant> > > > > > > predictions. They use Hershel, Neptune etc. Rarely use> dashas.> > I agree> > > > > > > with> > > > > > > you that Hershel and neptune have no classical standing.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > I personally do not think hershel and neptune don't need to> be> > used to> > > > > > > give> > > > > > > predictions. Quest for Pramana in classics is the way to go.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > ...> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > On 7/4/07, Sreenadh sreesog@ wrote:> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >> Dear Prafulla ji,> > > > > > >> I don't know. That is not my domai! n as well. I am after> > ancient> > > > > > >> Indian astrology - in a continuing search for the> originals.> > That is> > > > > > >> the only thing I can say.> > > > > > >> Love,> > > > > > >> Sreenadh> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >> --- In> > > > > > >>> > > > > >> > > >> >> <%40yaho\> \> > ogroups.com>,> > > > > > >> Prafulla Gang> > > > > > >> jyotish@ wrote:> > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>> Dear Sreenadh ji> > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>> I am not familiar with history of jyotish and sanskrit as> > well. But> > > > > > >> In my observation - most traditionalist in northern India> use> > bhava> > > > > > >> chalit chart for quite accurate predictions. If it does not> > make> > > > > > >> sense, then how come predictions are so accurate?> > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>> regards / Prafulla Gang> > > > > > >>> http://www.prafulla.net> > > > > > & !> > > >gt;>>> > > > > > >>> "The right to be heard does not automatically include the> > right to> > > > > > >> be taken seriously."> > > > > > >>> ************************************************> > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>>> sreesog@> > > > > > >>>> Tue, 03 Jul 2007 05:59:46 -0000> > > > > > >>>> To:> > > > > > >>>>> > > > > >> > > >> >> <%40yaho\> \> > ogroups.com>> > > > > > >>>> Re: Importance of> Bhava> > Chart> > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>> Dear Kannan ji,> > > > > > >>>> There is "no seperate bhava chart"; the Rasi chart itself> > is the> > > > > > >>>> bhava chart. Considering bhava chart as a seperate entity> > originated> > > > > ! > >>>> after the period of Sripati of 10th centuary AD. It is> > misleading> > > > > > >>>> concept similar to considering Navamsa as a seperate> chart> > not> > > > > > >>>> supported by ancient sages.> > > > > > >>>> You can find more info regarding the same from the> > following file> > > > > > >>>> present in the file section of the group.> > > > > > >>>> URL:> > > > > > >>>>> > > >> > Sreenadh/> > > > > > >>>> Signs and Houses.pdf> > > > > > >>>> As you could see there is no point in discussing> > non-existent things> > > > > > >>>> which are not supported by the sages; as of me I trying> to> > > > understand> > > > > > >>>> what they taught, as per their own words. [And therefore> > any> > > > > > >>>> discussion on Bhava, considering it not the same as sign,> > is not my> > > > > > >>>> domain]> > > > > > >>>>> > > > > & !> > > >gt; >>>> ==>> > > > > > >>>>> For eg. Jupiter an important planet for Scorpio Lagna> > placed in> > > > > > >>>>> Makara in Rasi (debilitation) and in Dhanu in Bhava (own> > sign).> > > > > > >>>> <==> > > > > > >>>> As you could see, this is absurd. For Scorpio Lagna,> Ju> > in> > > > > > >>>> Capricorn (Makara) rasi, is in 3rd house (bhava), and is> > > > in Capricorn> > > > > > >>>> sign. (Sign and house being the same). This is the> ancient> > concept;> > > > > > >>>> and the result derivation would be as per that. > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>> ==>> > > > > > >>>>> In continuation to our earlier discussions on> > > > > > >>>>> Retrogression, in this example Jupiter is Retrograde and> > placed in> > > > > > >>>>> Meena in Navamsa. How much is the effect of> > debilitation/own sign> > > > > ! > >>>>> in this case.> > > > > > >>>> <==> > > > > > >>>> That is an entirely different subject (i.e. how to> > interpret Sign> > > > > > >>>> and Navamsa results) and would discussed later.> > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>> ==>> > > > > > >>>>> Last but not the least I am eagerly waiting for your> next> > file on> > > > > > >>>>> birth time rectification.> > > > > > >>>> <==> > > > > > >>>> Yes, this is one thing in the urgent task list. I will> > try to> > > > > > >>>> complete it by next Saturday or prior to that. > > > > > > >>>> Love,> > > > > > >>>> Sreenadh> > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>> --- In> > > > > > >>>>> > > > > >> > > >> >> <%40yaho\> \> > ogroups.com>,> > > > > > >> "kankan_73"> > > > > > >>> & g!> > > >t; <kankan_73@> wrote:> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> Dear Sreenadh ji,> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> Please tell me something on the importance of Bhava> Chart.> > Do this> > > > > > >>>>> chart has importance like Navamsa. I have seen> mentioning> > of bhava> > > > > > >>>>> position (if different from Rasi Chart) while mentioning> > Planetary> > > > > > >>>>> results in old Jathakams written by Kerala astrologers.> > What is> > > > > > >>>> the> > > > > > >>>>> result if an important planet is posited in different> > signs in Rasi> > > > > > >>>>> and Bhava.> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> For eg. Jupiter an important planet for Scorpio Lagna> > placed in> > > > > > >>>>> Makara in Rasi (debilitation) and in Dhanu in Bhava (own> > sign).> > > > > > >>> & g!> > > >t; How> > > > > > >>>>> do we analyze this. In contin uation to our earlier> > discussions on> > > > > > >>>>> Retrogression, in this example Jupiter is Retrograde and> > placed in> > > > > > >>>>> Meena in Navamsa. How much is the effect of> > debilitation/own sign> > > > > > >>>> in> > > > > > >>>>> this case.> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> I request you to give your views on Bhava vs Rasi> > > > > > >>>>> differences/effects in general and also your view on the> > above> > > > > > >>>>> example.> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> Last but not the least I am eagerly waiting for your> next> > file on> > > > > > >>>>> birth time rectification.> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> Thanks & regards,> > > > > > >>>>> Kannan> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>> & !> > > >gt;> > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2007 Report Share Posted July 9, 2007 Hare ramakrishna, dear sreenadhji , Thanks u again for the support and good words regrds sunil nair . om shreem mahalxmai namah. , "Sreenadh" <sreesog wrote:>> Dear Sunil ji,> Well Said! I absolutely agree with you. > > Point -1:> ==>> > we are here to share and use and research and if possible > > re-establish the principles and re gain the lost glory of good > > old astrology.> <== > > Point -2:> ==>> > Lot of dirt, manipulations and misinterpretations has accumulated > > in astrological literature. And if some one is expressing concern > > and guarding it, it should not further corrupted by further > > additions and neo theories .> <==> > Point -3:> ==>> > Any reference on astrological principles will be passed through that> > quality control test .At least from my part .And I don't want a > > image of good boy in forum by keeping my heads in sand .> > I still expect serious students and researchers come out and let us> > test any principle forwarded by any one. As astrology can be > > researched only by joint efforts and as an individual every body > > will have their own limitations …….> Any theory has to go through> > strict testing and trial and error method > <==> > Point -4> ==>> > --all astro principles propounded by different rishis r still > > worked out by lacs of students on different part of world ,I don't > > think no body is doing it just by parroting it and accepting like > > fatwa. That is why this time tested principles we called classics.> <==> > I love the way you puts it! It seems that the importance of those > 4 points is also in the said order! > > Love,> Sreenadh > > , "sunil nair" > astro_tellerkerala@ wrote:> >> > > > Hare ramakrishna,> > > > dear sreenadhji,> > > > Thanks for encouraging remarks and words.> > > > But still i am having the fear that all discussions is going to > only> > like debating on pro and anti like some differrent ideological or> > religious group and no body comes out with working model which can > be> > replicated with atleast 80% of the charts .> > > > Every body forgets that we r here to share and use and reserch > and if> > possible re establish the principles and re gain the lost glory of > good> > old astrology and astrologers like rajajyothishis of yore.Lot of > dirt> > ,manipulations and mis intrepretations has accumulated in > astrological> > literature. And if some one is expressing concern and gaurding it, > it> > should not further corrupted by further additions and neo theoreys .> > Atleast we hav a duty as astro lovers to keep this sastra from the> > clutches of branded astrologers who float daily new new theoreys > with> > the help of new devlped technologies making maximum use for their> > personal benefit and own branding of image .If u accept it and > forget> > your duties then we all will hav to pay hefty price for our > ignorence.> > > > So any reference on astrological principles will be passed tru that> > quality control test .Atleast from my part .And i dont want a > image of> > good boy in forum by keeping my heads in sand .> > > > So i still expect serious students and reserchers come out and > let us> > test any principle forwarded by any one .As astrology can be > reserched> > only by joint efforts and as an individual every body will hav > their own> > limitations .Here there is no ego problem ,but any theorey has to > go tru> > strict testing and trial and error method --all astro principles> > propounded by differrent rishis r still worked out by lacs of > students> > on differrent part of world ,i dont think no body is doing it just > by> > parroting it and accepting like fatwa.Thats why this time tested> > priciples we called classics.> > > > Any way thanks for supporting and your mentioning of regrding flow > of> > words i think u hav more ashirvad of mother saraswathi than me .I > always> > like your style of writing .> > > > with thanks and regrds> > > > sunil nair> > > > om shreem mahalaxmai namah.> > > > > > > > > > , "Sreenadh"> > <sreesog@> wrote:> > >> > > Wow! That is great! From where you are getting these flow of > words!> > > Sorry..Sunil ji...I couldn't resitst it. I think I too wished to> > > express similar idea, but couldn't find the words. > > > Love,> > > Sreenadh> > >> > > , "sunil nair"> > > astro_tellerkerala@ wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > Hare ramakrishna,> > > >> > > > dear sunil john and robertji,> > > >> > > > I must point out here that this a forum of learning .And no > body is> > > > here perfect in the art ,if so why we should join here as not > very> > many> > > > people seeking predictions are entertained here .And so future> > business> > > > prospects r not there.> > > >> > > > Let us Not be like some 2 religious enthusiastics debating whose> > > > religion is better .> > > >> > > > Here the main discussion is whether the outer saturnian planets > can> > be> > > > used in individual charts and predictions and how its behaving > in> > > > various charts ,if so how we can arrive at .And also please not > that> > no> > > > body is here right now interested in mundane as first every > body is> > > > after their own fate then only national or international > approach> > starts> > > > and its one of the discarded area as lack of encourage ment from> > public> > > > or government .> > > >> > > > These planets being used in mundane prediction cannot be ruled > out> > as it> > > > takes long time to move out of a rasi and may be influencing > some> > part> > > > of world or triggerring some events or being some planets as > big as> > all> > > > the other planets put togetther may be influencing yugas also .> > > >> > > > Yes many pointed out That this extra saturnian planets is not > used> > > > Vedic Astrology and many popular naadis .some r pointed that its > used> > in> > > > some naadis and its mentioned in mahabharath period onwards.All> > these> > > > points atleast i know ,only question is how can we use in > kundalies> > > >> > > > In vedic astrology and naadi astrology i find the people who use> > planets> > > > other than this planets has advantage of allready revealed > things by> > > > rishis and sidhas.> > > >> > > > Now coming to point> > > >> > > > all other planets has well established rules for predictions> > formulated> > > > by rishis.> > > >> > > > Like all planets they given karakatwa,signs ,moolkshetra ,ucha> > ,neecha> > > > signs ,transit periods ,and its effects ,charactrestics ,ruling> > parts in> > > > human body ,in face and in hand ,hand lines.and their behavior> > ,ruling> > > > classes of people ,ruling areas ibn india and world,ruling> > > > laungauges,planetarydevatas,ruling nakhsatras,swaroopas> > > > ,mantras,gunas,ruling metals,their taste,flowers,animals> > > > ,plants,trees,professions ruled by this planets,perfumes,raagas > in> > music> > > > ,body parts,vastu ,human relation ship like sun is father. its> > colors> > > > ,precious stones,qualities like anger,humours like vat ,pitta.> > > > seasons,castes like working groups.Pancha bhootas (ruling > elements> > like> > > > fire ,earth),directions like north ,west, diseases ,educational> > > > portfolios,vehicles,places of worship,their physical> > > > appearance,spices,house hold articles,their frndly planets and > enmy> > > > planets and more important things is its dasa> > periods-----------these r> > > > the thing we need minimum to delinate results in prashan and > charts> > in> > > > individual predictions.> > > >> > > > Now to sri.robertji ----since u used in testing in many charts > now> > pluto> > > > is moving tru dhanus rasi --so whats the effect for people who > is> > > > dhanus(sagitarius ) rasi and lagna and moon sign --is it > positive> > and> > > > negetive ,so readers can test it and we will come to comfortable> > > > conclusion.What are the effects u said --as u said they feel the> > change.> > > >> > > > Now to sri sunil john> > > >> > > > U said abt some savants of astro uses in predictions --what > method> > > > ,absense of that how we can be for sure .> > > >> > > > May be hardeo sharma uses --but in mundane but my information > is he> > is> > > > from ujjain school of astrology propounded by varahamihira and > he> > uses> > > > lot of secret chakras ,P S iyyer i doubt as he is from pure > kerala> > > > paramapara --still i am yet to confront some one who uses these> > planets> > > > in kerala with parampara techniqs.In kerala i find various other> > > > techniqs in astro .> > > >> > > > U see KAS,KP and sistems appraoch all of them demonstrated > there own> > > > techniq and nothing is hidden from readers or practisioners ,and> > they r> > > > not telling u r impure and u r not entitled to get this > knowledge> > .Among> > > > them atleast this KAS-ashta varga astrologers are saying its > rishi> > > > proktha knowledge> > > >> > > > Your reference abt that marathi astrologer is good and keep ur > vow> > not> > > > show any astrologer students to him --good and fine> > > >> > > > But dont high lite that he charges nothing and donates > evrything he> > > > lives on air and his bills are paid automaticaly ---i am yet to > find> > > > such a spiritual personality in india since budha ( who was> > > > begging---taking alms).I think atleast his data is un doubted > and> > > > scietific and proved by historians.Yes i find one keralite jain> > lives on> > > > sun energy and he is a business man who charges for his > services and> > > > goods--it is proved by NASA> > > >> > > > Also regrding santanams death ---no doubt its not curse of brigu> > --its> > > > society has not supported him and he was doing all from his > pocket> > and> > > > by publishing books --even these days --u cannot cover any of ur> > > > expenses ,so may be personal problems or family problems as no > body> > > > wants such father ,or husband who is a fool who waistes money > and> > > > efforts to some unproductiv ventures ,as i heard it was a > unnatural> > > > death.So do we need to spread anthaviswas.> > > >> > > > I recently heard one student of Mr .K N rao successfully find> > > > combination from brigu naadi to predict important events in life> > like> > > > marriage ,professions ups and downs and status ,children > etc ,he is> > from> > > > rich back ground ,so muni brigu not cursed him .> > > >> > > > And u know --one american who translated yavana samhita --got 5> > crore> > > > indian ruppes as sponsorship and i think that was guided by > santanam> > > > --what he got being a spiritual indian .> > > >> > > > As far sanskrit if u want there r good pundits still there and > only> > u> > > > pay him well as they need to support their families well and > they> > has a> > > > right to liv a decent life .> > > >> > > > Please dont think -These r not aimed at any personal attack --i> > demands> > > > every body approach the subjuct with rational and intellectual> > approach> > > > and pls dont say u r cursed and no right to get knowledge and > dont> > worry> > > > abt knowledge getting corrupted as no body can do after > studying a> > > > subjuct for 20 or 25 years and so leav that tension aside --> > > >> > > > I am till today find only one grp headed by sri Umang taneja > doing> > > > successfully using these planets ,and they r ready to teach any > body> > > > --and its not a close gaurded secret ,but i find they r using > some> > yogas> > > > and not in dasa or transit with my one day interaction with > him --he> > > > happily explained all techniqs and ready to reveal u any thing > only> > my> > > > time barrier and lack of finance ( as they use differrent > ayanamsa> > and i> > > > dont hav their software which cost around 15000 2 years back)> stopped> > me> > > > .And he is not practising and only teaches u as he himself is a> > business> > > > man and his many sisyas already started doing practise.And > since i> > am> > > > not under any oath i will guide any body to him and give his > details> > or> > > > books> > > >> > > > Hope now we can demonstrate some methods other than --he was> > using,they> > > > r from 15 generation back - tall claims --so no head ache of > this> > sloka> > > > business also ,as one ounce of experince is bettet than a ton of> > > > knowledge.> > > >> > > > Again i clarify here i am not writing this lines to hurt any > body> > > > personaly and sunil john is my personal frnd ( i took that free > dom> > here> > > > ).Where we discuss many other things abt jyothish privately also> > .This> > > > post is purely subjuct oriented --and i thought 2 days to write > it> > > > --shud i do it or not and finaly decided to write .> > > >> > > > any body can reply this depends on their time availability and > i am> > only> > > > interested to keep the subjuct alive .> > > >> > > > wishing u all the best> > > >> > > > regrds sunil nair> > > >> > > > om shreem mahalxami namah.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > , "jjnet2000_in"> > > > <jjnet2000_in@> wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Om Datta Guru> > > > >> > > > > Dear Robert,> > > > > Though I had walked off this list long back due to the racist> > remark> > > > but> > > > > was compelled to write in ur defense as I know u are a genuine> > seeker> > > > of> > > > > this shastra. This mail is not intended just for u :-> > > > > I feel we have a different problem its not about whether Outer> > Planets> > > > > were written by our sages but do we have the Open Mind to> > understand> > > > > jyotish, is it a growing science. Do the planets behave> > differently in> > > > > different yugas (clues to this have been given in many old > books),> > so> > > > > should we alter our thinking.> > > > >> > > > > 1) We do not have even 1-5 % of the ancient books so debating > if> > outer> > > > > planets were written in the old books is fruitless especially> > since> > > > > there are hundreds of books in libraries and at homes which > are> > yet to> > > > > be translated. Even the few nadis with me are gathering dust> > though i> > > > > have begged Good scholars of sanskrit to translate it and > they are> > > > > unable to do so. Sometimes I feel if Nadi work is meant for> > everyone> > > > > e.g Santhanam died all of a sudden when he had almost finished> > Bhrigu> > > > > Nadi & who ever has touched Bhrigu Nadi has faced > unsurmountable> > > > > problems. I wish he had brought it out, he had said all works> > aside> > > > and> > > > > Bhrigu Nadi in one side, thats the worth of it.> > > > >> > > > > 2) If KNRao challenged the marathi astrologers this must be > taken> > in> > > > > another context, we must understand Rao Sahebs strength & > weakness> > > > first> > > > > (this is not meant to demean him) - one of his own mentor in> > mundane> > > > > astrology the Late Hardeo Sharma Trivedi used to use Outer > Planets> > > > > fantastically in his predictions and is till date one of the> > greatest> > > > > predictors of mundane astrology.> > > > >> > > > > 3) Ramans grandfather often said to him forget the shloka > business> > see> > > > > what works that is True astrology, so running behind shlokas > for> > it is> > > > > useless. Then even if shlokas are presented whats the use, can> > anyone> > > > > today interpret it, I have not found a true knowledgeable guy > in> > > > > sanskrit.> > > > >> > > > > 4) Current breed of scholars are self appointed scholars who > have> > zero> > > > > level of scientific mind and do not test any principle. > thousands> > of> > > > > shlokas do not work what do they have to say to that. So > should we> > > > > discard all the works of the Rishis who wrote it. Rishis do > not> > agree> > > > to> > > > > the effects of even something as a planet in a house, > different> > > > opinions> > > > > among rishis> > > > >> > > > > 5) The Late P.S.Iyer whom Rao Saheb also says was one of the > most> > > > > fantastic astrologer used to predict to the DAY every event, > he> > used> > > > to> > > > > use the Outer Planets.> > > > >> > > > > 6) 4 hrs from Bombay is a person still alive who was brought > up in> > a> > > > > tradition where books from Lopi Script were handed down to > him,> > for 25> > > > > yrs he was taught astrology and only after that he was asked > to> > see> > > > his> > > > > first chart & practice jyotish (the money he takes is in form > of> > > > > donation, he does not see the amount given & donates it > full). I> > have> > > > > not met an astrologer like him, of all the astrologers i have > met> > and> > > > > interacted he is the only guy I know who can UNLOCK a chart. > He> > was> > > > > introduced to me by an Ex-SJC Mumbai person and I have vowed > not> > to> > > > take> > > > > current breed of astrologers to him, they do not deserve him. > I> > always> > > > > say if people on the lists from india knew astrology they > would> > not> > > > have> > > > > spare time to write here as flock of people would be outside > their> > > > > house. This man has a daily visitation of 100 people and he > drives> > the> > > > > rest away. He uses Outer Planets and his parampara is of more > than> > 14> > > > > generations, at that time the world did not even know of Outer> > > > Planets.> > > > > I asked him to share the shlokas from his family, he said can > u or> > > > > anyone read them, then do u all have the ability to decode it,> > whats> > > > the> > > > > use of getting into scholarly mode that 'Only when u see the> > shloka u> > > > > would believe, forget shlokas test the technique only then u > would> > > > learn> > > > > astrology' - he told me.> > > > >> > > > > I have begged him to come out with a book but he refuses, this> > vidya> > > > is> > > > > only misused by egoists so he does not want a curse of sharing> > that> > > > > knowledge to such readers. He is a DashaGranthi Brahmin btw, > my> > > > efforts> > > > > still continue in him bringing at least a basic book.> > > > >> > > > > 7) Our astrology in current form is useless in a deeper > sense, we> > > > > realise that when we read ChandraKala Nadi (Devekerelam) & to > a> > > > certain> > > > > extent Bhavartha Ratnakara for e.g> > > > >> > > > > 8) Narendra Desai the greatest astrologer to walk into > america as> > per> > > > > most senior astrologers in america had seen the text of > Vasistha> > Nadi> > > > > wherein Outer Planets was mentioned and we all know how > fantastic> > a> > > > > predictor he was, ofcourse his breed will never be born again.> > People> > > > on> > > > > lists will sit here whole life arguing that Outer Planets are > not> > > > > mentioned in classics but no one has the guts to test it on > 100> > charts> > > > > with an open mind. Only when we test we realise what we are> > missing> > > > and> > > > > alas we say we hide behind Parasara's back as if we know> > everything> > > > that> > > > > he said. We cant even interpret his shlokas well. If we read > first> > 2> > > > > chapters of BPHS and UNDERSTAND what he is trying to say > (which is> > > > > understandable as it is in clear english) we would know that > he is> > not> > > > > going to reveal everything that is astrology at all so its > useless> > to> > > > > hide behind his back.> > > > > Shri Narendra Desai had a saying 'Do not listen to what people> > say,> > > > this> > > > > Uranus works and it works too well'.> > > > >> > > > > 9) People say that the issue is not if outerplanets takes 100 > yrs> > blah> > > > > blah to move from a sign, what about Jupiter it takes only 1 > yr,> > can> > > > we> > > > > say with all honesty that we understand how Jupiter is going > to> > give> > > > > results in a chart or say any other planet in jyotish - > ofcourse> > not> > > > we> > > > > do not know Jyotish as to even what Jyotish Is - this is the > truth> > and> > > > > can be found out when we meet masters who had some knowledge > of> > this> > > > > science.> > > > >> > > > > 10) Jyotish is an internal Sadhana which requires Bhakti of > the> > > > highest> > > > > order and people who are argumentative, have anger, have > jealousy,> > > > want> > > > > to put others down, have ego, have need for fame or getting> > themselves> > > > > shown as scholars will never understand it in this or any> > lifetime.> > > > Even> > > > > Parasara and other sages have mentioned the above criteria, I> > guess> > > > they> > > > > were not fools. This vidya is of Sanyasi's and not common man,> > anyone> > > > > who has travelled in search of true jyotish n met masters will> > realise> > > > > this statement as he will often find this answer staring > right at> > his> > > > > face.> > > > >> > > > > I appreciate people like u who have tested the outer planets > in> > over> > > > > hundred charts, u are far better off than us who only talk > talk> > talk> > > > or> > > > > hide behind shlokas and we cant even test the shlokas that we > know> > on> > > > > 100 charts.> > > > >> > > > > To end this,' We do not understand what the sages have said so> > getting> > > > > into arguments or discussions and says Sages said this or > that is> > > > > Absurdity'> > > > >> > > > > best wishes> > > > > Sunil John> > > > > Mumbai> > > > > P.S: To others pls do not waste ur energy in replying to this> > mail, I> > > > do> > > > > not have the time or inclination to read it.> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > , Robert Koch > rk@> > > > > wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > Namah Shivaya> > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~> > > > > >> > > > > > Dear Mr. Nair,> > > > > >> > > > > > Thank you for your post as well, which, although much less> > cynical> > > > > > than the responses of Sreenadh-ji, poses some good points. > I too> > > > > > have argued for years since embarking on an ambitious study > of> > > > > > Jyotish in 1984 that Uranus, Neptune and Pluto have no place> > within> > > > > > the practice of classical Jyotish. What naksatras do they > rule?> > Who> > > > > > is their Devata, etc.? But my original stoicism toward these> > planets> > > > > > has changed due to undeniable experience of their> > > > > > affects. Astrologers must bring different approaches to the> > table as> > > > > > to the usefulness of these planets in actual astrological> > practice,> > > > > > rather than endless parrot-like quoting of shastras in an > effort> > to> > > > > > dismiss them. There are those whose habit is to disable or> > ignore> > > > > > new approaches based on scriptural and classical reference, > and> > then> > > > > > there are those who seek to find out in practice if they > work or> > not> > > > > > or are useful. I prefer to take the latter route frankly.> > > > > >> > > > > > Let me make my point more clear: I believe in the active and> > > > > > enthusiastic efforts to try, research, and investigate the> > various> > > > > > methods of astrology being put forth. If there is even an> > inkling of> > > > > > reference to Vasishta Nadi, or Kapila Nadi as to Uranus, > Neptune> > and> > > > > > Pluto, or if stalwarts in the field for whom I have great> > respect> > > > (as> > > > > > an example, Sri Chandulal S. Patel who did extensive > research on> > the> > > > > > use of outer planets) then I personally will not sit on my > hands> > > > > > until I have seen their effect in at least 100 charts. The > fact> > is,> > > > > > that if transit Pluto moves over the lagna or Moon of the > chart,> > you> > > > > > will not be able to deny the life-changing events and > affects> > that> > > > > > such transits bring forward. This has been my observation> > testing it> > > > > > in hundreds of charts in a period of 23 years. There are > various> > > > > > progression methods too practiced by both Nadi astrologers > as> > well> > > > as> > > > > > western astrologers, and these will bring very specific > events> > to> > > > our> > > > > > awareness referencing these outer planets as well.> > > > > >> > > > > > However, you are right, if Sri K.N. Rao challenged some > Marathi> > > > > > astrologers to demonstrate their researches on outer > planets,> > then> > > > > > the latter should have come forward to prove their point.> > > > > >> > > > > > Anyway, so how will we use our classical knowledge then? To> > dismiss> > > > > > or negate, or to rejuvenate the energy of discovery by > trial and> > > > > > error, research and investigation? It is all up to the> > disposition> > > > > > of the individual astrologer and how he/she sees the > learning> > and> > > > > > practice of this great science. If I think for a moment > that my> > > > > > technique or knowledge is sufficient, and all the while I > have> > not> > > > > > practically tested even what I do know on a multiplicity of> > charts,> > > > > > then Jyotish becomes a dry, intellectual hobby at best. > Then it> > only> > > > > > serves to reinforce the ego of the astrologer, rather than> > becoming> > > > a> > > > > > vehicle to uplift and enlighten others. If, however, the> > astrologer> > > > > > continually tries, tests, and researches, then he keeps the> > science> > > > > > alive and you may be surprised how many secrets are > revealed to> > a> > > > > > person with that attitude toward his practice.> > > > > >> > > > > > With best regards, and no disrespect intended toward > anyone -> > > > > >> > > > > > Robert> > > > > >> > > > > > At 01:48 AM 7/5/2007, you wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > >Hare rama krishna,> > > > > > >> > > > > > >dear robertji,> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Thanks for your post.> > > > > > >> > > > > > >But as seekers of truth and holders of light called > jyothisha> > > > > > >should we go by some stray references which quoted by some > one> > in> > > > > > >some group or we shud look for its textual reference.in > tamil> > or> > > > > > >sanskrit ,as most of naadis in this laungage and quote the > page> > > > > > >--line of concerned books.> > > > > > >> > > > > > >my observations.> > > > > > >> > > > > > >1)this planets stays more years and transit in ones life is> > > > > > >negligible as almost 100 or more years it stays in one rasi> > > > > > >> > > > > > > 2) There is no graha --khetra allotted to this planets by> > vedic> > > > > > > seers,like ucha ,swa or neecha .> > > > > > >> > > > > > >3)There is no dasa periods as its important in delination > of> > > > results.> > > > > > >> > > > > > >4) their nature ,karaka and frndly and enmy planets r not> > > > identified> > > > > > >again important in vedic style of delination of results.> > > > > > >> > > > > > >And i read --i dont hav text--in varaha hora --varahmihira> > > > describes> > > > > > >--there are 100s crores of planets are there but we take > only 7> > > > > > >planets and 2 chaya grahs ( its some thing like grhanam > shatha> > kodi> > > > > > >---- like this --may be sree nath can help me ),as only > this> > > > planets> > > > > > >can influence in ecliptical path of earth .> > > > > > >> > > > > > >Also one naadi astrology people under the team of sri > Taneja of> > > > > > >delhi uses this planets as i was told he was taught this > method> > by> > > > > > >one J C LUTRA ,again i dont know whats their sourse,and i > could> > not> > > > > > >test it as they use differrent ayanamsha and charges > 15000/- or> > > > some> > > > > > >for software ,so i leav it> > > > > > >> > > > > > >Once in one astro conference held and chaired by BV > raman ,sri> > KN> > > > > > >rao challenged all marathi astrologers to prove those who > uses> > > > extra> > > > > > >sataurnian planets ,all shied away ,most of them were > famous> > > > > astrologers> > > > > > >> > > > > > >i heard in mahabharath vedvyas mentiones indra varuna,rudra> > dring> > > > > > >the time of war --yes i dont hav that part with me now> > > > > > >> > > > > > >But its more mundane as a bloody distructive war.> > > > > > >> > > > > > >pls produce textual support.> > > > > > >> > > > > > >regrds sunil nair> > > > > > >> > > > > > >om shreem mahalaxmai namah.> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > , Robert > Koch> > rk@> > > > > wrote:> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Namaste Prafulla,> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > At 08:56 AM 7/4/2007, you wrote:> > > > > > > > >Dear Sir> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >Harshal, Neptune etc are referred in one of the > nadi..I do> > not> > > > > > > > >remember..one of the jyotish forum member shared that > on> > > > another> > > > > > > > >thread in another forum.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Yes, according to my sources also, Uranus, Neptune, and> > Pluto> > > > are> > > > > > > > taught in Vasishta and Kapila Nadis.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Best regards,> > > > > > > > Robert Koch> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >regards / Prafulla Gang> > > > > > > > >http://www.prafulla.net> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >"The right to be heard does not automatically include > the> > right> > > > > to> > > > > > > > >be taken seriously."> > > > > > > > >************************************************> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > navagraha@> > > > > > > > > > ! Wed, 4 Jul 2007 09:02:47 -0400> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Re: Re: > Importance> > of> > > > > Bhava Chart> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Namaste Sreenadh,> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > There are astrologers in Maharashatra that give> > absolutely> > > > > brilliant> > > > > > > > > > predictions. They use Hershel, Neptune etc. Rarely > use> > > > dashas.> > > > > I agree> > > > > > > > > > with> > > > > > > > > > you that Hershel and neptune have no classical > standing.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > I personally do not think hershel and neptune don't > need> > to> > > > be> > > > > used to> > > > > > > > > > give> > > > > > > > > > predictions. Quest for Pramana in classics is the > way to> > go.> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > ...> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > On 7/4/07, Sreenadh sreesog@ wrote:> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >> Dear Prafulla ji,> > > > > > > > > >> I don't know. That is not my domai! n as well. I am> > after> > > > > ancient> > > > > > > > > >> Indian astrology - in a continuing search for the> > > > originals.> > > > > That is> > > > > > > > > >> the only thing I can say.> > > > > > > > > >> Love,> > > > > > > > > >> Sreenadh> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >> --- In> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> > <%> 40yaho\> > \> > > > \> > > > > ogroups.com>,> > > > > > > > > >> Prafulla Gang> > > > > > > > > >> jyotish@ wrote:> > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >>> Dear Sreenadh ji> > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >>> I am not familiar with history of jyotish and > sanskrit> > as> > > > > well. But> > > > > > > > > >> In my observation - most traditionalist in northern> > India> > > > use> > > > > bhava> > > > > > > > > >> chalit chart for quite accurate predictions. If it > does> > not> > > > > make> > > > > > > > > >> sense, then how come predictions are so accurate?> > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >>> regards / Prafulla Gang> > > > > > > > > >>> http://www.prafulla.net> > > > > > > > > & !> > > > > > >gt;>>> > > > > > > > > >>> "The right to be heard does not automatically > include> > the> > > > > right to> > > > > > > > > >> be taken seriously."> > > > > > > > > >>> ************************************************> > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > >>>> sreesog@> > > > > > > > > >>>> Tue, 03 Jul 2007 05:59:46 -0000> > > > > > > > > >>>> To:> > > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> > <%> 40yaho\> > \> > > > \> > > > > ogroups.com>> > > > > > > > > >>>> Re: > Importance of> > > > Bhava> > > > > Chart> > > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > > >>>> Dear Kannan ji,> > > > > > > > > >>>> There is "no seperate bhava chart"; the Rasi > chart> > itself> > > > > is the> > > > > > > > > >>>> bhava chart. Considering bhava chart as a > seperate> > entity> > > > > originated> > > > > > > > ! > >>>> after the period of Sripati of 10th centuary > AD. It> > is> > > > > misleading> > > > > > > > > >>>> concept similar to considering Navamsa as a > seperate> > > > chart> > > > > not> > > > > > > > > >>>> supported by ancient sages.> > > > > > > > > >>>> You can find more info regarding the same from > the> > > > > following file> > > > > > > > > >>>> present in the file section of the group.> > > > > > > > > >>>> URL:> > > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >> > > > >> > > Sreenadh/> > > > > > > > > >>>> Signs and Houses.pdf> > > > > > > > > >>>> As you could see there is no point in discussing> > > > > non-existent things> > > > > > > > > >>>> which are not supported by the sages; as of me I> > trying> > > > to> > > > > > > understand> > > > > > > > > >>>> what they taught, as per their own words. [And> > therefore> > > > > any> > > > > > > > > >>>> discussion on Bhava, considering it not the same > as> > sign,> > > > > is not my> > > > > > > > > >>>> domain]> > > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > & !> > > > > > >gt; >>>> ==>> > > > > > > > > >>>>> For eg. Jupiter an important planet for Scorpio> > Lagna> > > > > placed in> > > > > > > > > >>>>> Makara in Rasi (debilitation) and in Dhanu in > Bhava> > (own> > > > > sign).> > > > > > > > > >>>> <==> > > > > > > > > >>>> As you could see, this is absurd. For Scorpio> > Lagna,> > > > Ju> > > > > in> > > > > > > > > >>>> Capricorn (Makara) rasi, is in 3rd house > (bhava), and> > is> > > > > > > in Capricorn> > > > > > > > > >>>> sign. (Sign and house being the same). This is > the> > > > ancient> > > > > concept;> > > > > > > > > >>>> and the result derivation would be as per > that. > > > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > > >>>> ==>> > > > > > > > > >>>>> In continuation to our earlier discussions on> > > > > > > > > >>>>> Retrogression, in this example Jupiter is > Retrograde> > and> > > > > placed in> > > > > > > > > >>>>> Meena in Navamsa. How much is the effect of> > > > > debilitation/own sign> > > > > > > > ! > >>>>> in this case.> > > > > > > > > >>>> <==> > > > > > > > > >>>> That is an entirely different subject (i.e. how > to> > > > > interpret Sign> > > > > > > > > >>>> and Navamsa results) and would discussed later.> > > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > > >>>> ==>> > > > > > > > > >>>>> Last but not the least I am eagerly waiting for > your> > > > next> > > > > file on> > > > > > > > > >>>>> birth time rectification.> > > > > > > > > >>>> <==> > > > > > > > > >>>> Yes, this is one thing in the urgent task > list. I> > will> > > > > try to> > > > > > > > > >>>> complete it by next Saturday or prior to that. > > > > > > > > > >>>> Love,> > > > > > > > > >>>> Sreenadh> > > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > > >>>> --- In> > > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> > <%> 40yaho\> > \> > > > \> > > > > ogroups.com>,> > > > > > > > > >> "kankan_73"> > > > > > > > > >>> & g!> > > > > > >t; <kankan_73@> wrote:> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > > > >>>>> Dear Sreenadh ji,> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > > > >>>>> Please tell me something on the importance of > Bhava> > > > Chart.> > > > > Do this> > > > > > > > > >>>>> chart has importance like Navamsa. I have seen> > > > mentioning> > > > > of bhava> > > > > > > > > >>>>> position (if different from Rasi Chart) while> > mentioning> > > > > Planetary> > > > > > > > > >>>>> results in old Jathakams written by Kerala> > astrologers.> > > > > What is> > > > > > > > > >>>> the> > > > > > > > > >>>>> result if an important planet is posited in> > different> > > > > signs in Rasi> > > > > > > > > >>>>> and Bhava.> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > > > >>>>> For eg. Jupiter an important planet for Scorpio> > Lagna> > > > > placed in> > > > > > > > > >>>>> Makara in Rasi (debilitation) and in Dhanu in > Bhava> > (own> > > > > sign).> > > > > > > > > >>> & g!> > > > > > >t; How> > > > > > > > > >>>>> do we analyze this. In contin uation to our > earlier> > > > > discussions on> > > > > > > > > >>>>> Retrogression, in this example Jupiter is > Retrograde> > and> > > > > placed in> > > > > > > > > >>>>> Meena in Navamsa. How much is the effect of> > > > > debilitation/own sign> > > > > > > > > >>>> in> > > > > > > > > >>>>> this case.> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > > > >>>>> I request you to give your views on Bhava vs > Rasi> > > > > > > > > >>>>> differences/effects in general and also your > view on> > the> > > > > above> > > > > > > > > >>>>> example.> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > > > >>>>> Last but not the least I am eagerly waiting for > your> > > > next> > > > > file on> > > > > > > > > >>>>> birth time rectification.> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > > > >>>>> Thanks & regards,> > > > > > > > > >>>>> Kannan> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > > >>> & !> > > > > > >gt;> > > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > > >>>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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