Guest guest Posted July 7, 2007 Report Share Posted July 7, 2007 Om Datta GuruDear Sreenadh,I had to come back due to v reality posting a personal mail saying he had replied on list, I felt it would incorrect of me not to check.Anyways thanks for ur kind comments. I must sign off now and go back into my shell which i have tend to love a lotbest Sunil JohnMumbai , "Sreenadh" <sreesog wrote:>> Dear Sunil john ji,> You may read it or not. But thanks for the good mail. > Love,> Sreenadh> , "jjnet2000_in"> jjnet2000_in@ wrote:> >> > Om Datta Guru> > > > Dear Robert,> > Though I had walked off this list long back due to the racist remark but> > was compelled to write in ur defense as I know u are a genuine seeker of> > this shastra. This mail is not intended just for u :-> > I feel we have a different problem its not about whether Outer Planets> > were written by our sages but do we have the Open Mind to understand> > jyotish, is it a growing science. Do the planets behave differently in> > different yugas (clues to this have been given in many old books), so> > should we alter our thinking.> > > > 1) We do not have even 1-5 % of the ancient books so debating if outer> > planets were written in the old books is fruitless especially since> > there are hundreds of books in libraries and at homes which are yet to> > be translated. Even the few nadis with me are gathering dust though i> > have begged Good scholars of sanskrit to translate it and they are> > unable to do so. Sometimes I feel if Nadi work is meant for everyone> > e.g Santhanam died all of a sudden when he had almost finished Bhrigu> > Nadi & who ever has touched Bhrigu Nadi has faced unsurmountable> > problems. I wish he had brought it out, he had said all works aside and> > Bhrigu Nadi in one side, thats the worth of it.> > > > 2) If KNRao challenged the marathi astrologers this must be taken in> > another context, we must understand Rao Sahebs strength & weakness first> > (this is not meant to demean him) - one of his own mentor in mundane> > astrology the Late Hardeo Sharma Trivedi used to use Outer Planets> > fantastically in his predictions and is till date one of the greatest> > predictors of mundane astrology.> > > > 3) Ramans grandfather often said to him forget the shloka business see> > what works that is True astrology, so running behind shlokas for it is> > useless. Then even if shlokas are presented whats the use, can anyone> > today interpret it, I have not found a true knowledgeable guy in> > sanskrit.> > > > 4) Current breed of scholars are self appointed scholars who have zero> > level of scientific mind and do not test any principle. thousands of> > shlokas do not work what do they have to say to that. So should we> > discard all the works of the Rishis who wrote it. Rishis do not agree to> > the effects of even something as a planet in a house, different opinions> > among rishis> > > > 5) The Late P.S.Iyer whom Rao Saheb also says was one of the most> > fantastic astrologer used to predict to the DAY every event, he used to> > use the Outer Planets.> > > > 6) 4 hrs from Bombay is a person still alive who was brought up in a> > tradition where books from Lopi Script were handed down to him, for 25> > yrs he was taught astrology and only after that he was asked to see his> > first chart & practice jyotish (the money he takes is in form of> > donation, he does not see the amount given & donates it full). I have> > not met an astrologer like him, of all the astrologers i have met and> > interacted he is the only guy I know who can UNLOCK a chart. He was> > introduced to me by an Ex-SJC Mumbai person and I have vowed not to take> > current breed of astrologers to him, they do not deserve him. I always> > say if people on the lists from india knew astrology they would not have> > spare time to write here as flock of people would be outside their> > house. This man has a daily visitation of 100 people and he drives the> > rest away. He uses Outer Planets and his parampara is of more than 14> > generations, at that time the world did not even know of Outer Planets.> > I asked him to share the shlokas from his family, he said can u or> > anyone read them, then do u all have the ability to decode it, whats the> > use of getting into scholarly mode that 'Only when u see the shloka u> > would believe, forget shlokas test the technique only then u would learn> > astrology' - he told me.> > > > I have begged him to come out with a book but he refuses, this vidya is> > only misused by egoists so he does not want a curse of sharing that> > knowledge to such readers. He is a DashaGranthi Brahmin btw, my efforts> > still continue in him bringing at least a basic book.> > > > 7) Our astrology in current form is useless in a deeper sense, we> > realise that when we read ChandraKala Nadi (Devekerelam) & to a certain> > extent Bhavartha Ratnakara for e.g> > > > 8) Narendra Desai the greatest astrologer to walk into america as per> > most senior astrologers in america had seen the text of Vasistha Nadi> > wherein Outer Planets was mentioned and we all know how fantastic a> > predictor he was, ofcourse his breed will never be born again. People on> > lists will sit here whole life arguing that Outer Planets are not> > mentioned in classics but no one has the guts to test it on 100 charts> > with an open mind. Only when we test we realise what we are missing and> > alas we say we hide behind Parasara's back as if we know everything that> > he said. We cant even interpret his shlokas well. If we read first 2> > chapters of BPHS and UNDERSTAND what he is trying to say (which is> > understandable as it is in clear english) we would know that he is not> > going to reveal everything that is astrology at all so its useless to> > hide behind his back.> > Shri Narendra Desai had a saying 'Do not listen to what people say, this> > Uranus works and it works too well'.> > > > 9) People say that the issue is not if outerplanets takes 100 yrs blah> > blah to move from a sign, what about Jupiter it takes only 1 yr, can we> > say with all honesty that we understand how Jupiter is going to give> > results in a chart or say any other planet in jyotish - ofcourse not we> > do not know Jyotish as to even what Jyotish Is - this is the truth and> > can be found out when we meet masters who had some knowledge of this> > science.> > > > 10) Jyotish is an internal Sadhana which requires Bhakti of the highest> > order and people who are argumentative, have anger, have jealousy, want> > to put others down, have ego, have need for fame or getting themselves> > shown as scholars will never understand it in this or any lifetime. Even> > Parasara and other sages have mentioned the above criteria, I guess they> > were not fools. This vidya is of Sanyasi's and not common man, anyone> > who has travelled in search of true jyotish n met masters will realise> > this statement as he will often find this answer staring right at his> > face.> > > > I appreciate people like u who have tested the outer planets in over> > hundred charts, u are far better off than us who only talk talk talk or> > hide behind shlokas and we cant even test the shlokas that we know on> > 100 charts.> > > > To end this,' We do not understand what the sages have said so getting> > into arguments or discussions and says Sages said this or that is> > Absurdity'> > > > best wishes> > Sunil John> > Mumbai> > P.S: To others pls do not waste ur energy in replying to this mail, I do> > not have the time or inclination to read it.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Robert Koch <rk@>> > wrote:> > >> > > Namah Shivaya> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~> > >> > > Dear Mr. Nair,> > >> > > Thank you for your post as well, which, although much less cynical> > > than the responses of Sreenadh-ji, poses some good points. I too> > > have argued for years since embarking on an ambitious study of> > > Jyotish in 1984 that Uranus, Neptune and Pluto have no place within> > > the practice of classical Jyotish. What naksatras do they rule? Who> > > is their Devata, etc.? But my original stoicism toward these planets> > > has changed due to undeniable experience of their> > > affects. Astrologers must bring different approaches to the table as> > > to the usefulness of these planets in actual astrological practice,> > > rather than endless parrot-like quoting of shastras in an effort to> > > dismiss them. There are those whose habit is to disable or ignore> > > new approaches based on scriptural and classical reference, and then> > > there are those who seek to find out in practice if they work or not> > > or are useful. I prefer to take the latter route frankly.> > >> > > Let me make my point more clear: I believe in the active and> > > enthusiastic efforts to try, research, and investigate the various> > > methods of astrology being put forth. If there is even an inkling of> > > reference to Vasishta Nadi, or Kapila Nadi as to Uranus, Neptune and> > > Pluto, or if stalwarts in the field for whom I have great respect (as> > > an example, Sri Chandulal S. Patel who did extensive research on the> > > use of outer planets) then I personally will not sit on my hands> > > until I have seen their effect in at least 100 charts. The fact is,> > > that if transit Pluto moves over the lagna or Moon of the chart, you> > > will not be able to deny the life-changing events and affects that> > > such transits bring forward. This has been my observation testing it> > > in hundreds of charts in a period of 23 years. There are various> > > progression methods too practiced by both Nadi astrologers as well as> > > western astrologers, and these will bring very specific events to our> > > awareness referencing these outer planets as well.> > >> > > However, you are right, if Sri K.N. Rao challenged some Marathi> > > astrologers to demonstrate their researches on outer planets, then> > > the latter should have come forward to prove their point.> > >> > > Anyway, so how will we use our classical knowledge then? To dismiss> > > or negate, or to rejuvenate the energy of discovery by trial and> > > error, research and investigation? It is all up to the disposition> > > of the individual astrologer and how he/she sees the learning and> > > practice of this great science. If I think for a moment that my> > > technique or knowledge is sufficient, and all the while I have not> > > practically tested even what I do know on a multiplicity of charts,> > > then Jyotish becomes a dry, intellectual hobby at best. Then it only> > > serves to reinforce the ego of the astrologer, rather than becoming a> > > vehicle to uplift and enlighten others. If, however, the astrologer> > > continually tries, tests, and researches, then he keeps the science> > > alive and you may be surprised how many secrets are revealed to a> > > person with that attitude toward his practice.> > >> > > With best regards, and no disrespect intended toward anyone -> > >> > > Robert> > >> > > At 01:48 AM 7/5/2007, you wrote:> > >> > > >Hare rama krishna,> > > >> > > >dear robertji,> > > >> > > > Thanks for your post.> > > >> > > >But as seekers of truth and holders of light called jyothisha> > > >should we go by some stray references which quoted by some one in> > > >some group or we shud look for its textual reference.in tamil or> > > >sanskrit ,as most of naadis in this laungage and quote the page> > > >--line of concerned books.> > > >> > > >my observations.> > > >> > > >1)this planets stays more years and transit in ones life is> > > >negligible as almost 100 or more years it stays in one rasi> > > >> > > > 2) There is no graha --khetra allotted to this planets by vedic> > > > seers,like ucha ,swa or neecha .> > > >> > > >3)There is no dasa periods as its important in delination of results.> > > >> > > >4) their nature ,karaka and frndly and enmy planets r not identified> > > >again important in vedic style of delination of results.> > > >> > > >And i read --i dont hav text--in varaha hora --varahmihira describes> > > >--there are 100s crores of planets are there but we take only 7> > > >planets and 2 chaya grahs ( its some thing like grhanam shatha kodi> > > >---- like this --may be sree nath can help me ),as only this planets> > > >can influence in ecliptical path of earth .> > > >> > > >Also one naadi astrology people under the team of sri Taneja of> > > >delhi uses this planets as i was told he was taught this method by> > > >one J C LUTRA ,again i dont know whats their sourse,and i could not> > > >test it as they use differrent ayanamsha and charges 15000/- or some> > > >for software ,so i leav it> > > >> > > >Once in one astro conference held and chaired by BV raman ,sri KN> > > >rao challenged all marathi astrologers to prove those who uses extra> > > >sataurnian planets ,all shied away ,most of them were famous> > astrologers> > > >> > > >i heard in mahabharath vedvyas mentiones indra varuna,rudra dring> > > >the time of war --yes i dont hav that part with me now> > > >> > > >But its more mundane as a bloody distructive war.> > > >> > > >pls produce textual support.> > > >> > > >regrds sunil nair> > > >> > > >om shreem mahalaxmai namah.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > , Robert Koch rk@> > wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Namaste Prafulla,> > > > >> > > > > At 08:56 AM 7/4/2007, you wrote:> > > > > >Dear Sir> > > > > >> > > > > >Harshal, Neptune etc are referred in one of the nadi..I do not> > > > > >remember..one of the jyotish forum member shared that on another> > > > > >thread in another forum.> > > > >> > > > > Yes, according to my sources also, Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto are> > > > > taught in Vasishta and Kapila Nadis.> > > > >> > > > > Best regards,> > > > > Robert Koch> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > >regards / Prafulla Gang> > > > > >http://www.prafulla.net> > > > > >> > > > > >"The right to be heard does not automatically include the right> > to> > > > > >be taken seriously."> > > > > >************************************************> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > navagraha@> > > > > > > ! Wed, 4 Jul 2007 09:02:47 -0400> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Re: Re: Importance of> > Bhava Chart> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Namaste Sreenadh,> > > > > > >> > > > > > > There are astrologers in Maharashatra that give absolutely> > brilliant> > > > > > > predictions. They use Hershel, Neptune etc. Rarely use dashas.> > I agree> > > > > > > with> > > > > > > you that Hershel and neptune have no classical standing.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > I personally do not think hershel and neptune don't need to be> > used to> > > > > > > give> > > > > > > predictions. Quest for Pramana in classics is the way to go.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > ...> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > On 7/4/07, Sreenadh sreesog@ wrote:> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >> Dear Prafulla ji,> > > > > > >> I don't know. That is not my domai! n as well. I am after> > ancient> > > > > > >> Indian astrology - in a continuing search for the originals.> > That is> > > > > > >> the only thing I can say.> > > > > > >> Love,> > > > > > >> Sreenadh> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >> --- In> > > > > > >>> > > > > >> > > >> >> <%40yaho\> > ogroups.com>,> > > > > > >> Prafulla Gang> > > > > > >> jyotish@ wrote:> > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>> Dear Sreenadh ji> > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>> I am not familiar with history of jyotish and sanskrit as> > well. But> > > > > > >> In my observation - most traditionalist in northern India use> > bhava> > > > > > >> chalit chart for quite accurate predictions. If it does not> > make> > > > > > >> sense, then how come predictions are so accurate?> > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>> regards / Prafulla Gang> > > > > > >>> http://www.prafulla.net> > > > > > & !> > > >gt;>>> > > > > > >>> "The right to be heard does not automatically include the> > right to> > > > > > >> be taken seriously."> > > > > > >>> ************************************************> > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > >>>> sreesog@> > > > > > >>>> Tue, 03 Jul 2007 05:59:46 -0000> > > > > > >>>> To:> > > > > > >>>>> > > > > >> > > >> >> <%40yaho\> > ogroups.com>> > > > > > >>>> Re: Importance of Bhava> > Chart> > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>> Dear Kannan ji,> > > > > > >>>> There is "no seperate bhava chart"; the Rasi chart itself> > is the> > > > > > >>>> bhava chart. Considering bhava chart as a seperate entity> > originated> > > > > ! > >>>> after the period of Sripati of 10th centuary AD. It is> > misleading> > > > > > >>>> concept similar to considering Navamsa as a seperate chart> > not> > > > > > >>>> supported by ancient sages.> > > > > > >>>> You can find more info regarding the same from the> > following file> > > > > > >>>> present in the file section of the group.> > > > > > >>>> URL:> > > > > > >>>>> > > >> > Sreenadh/> > > > > > >>>> Signs and Houses.pdf> > > > > > >>>> As you could see there is no point in discussing> > non-existent things> > > > > > >>>> which are not supported by the sages; as of me I trying to> > > > understand> > > > > > >>>> what they taught, as per their own words. [And therefore> > any> > > > > > >>>> discussion on Bhava, considering it not the same as sign,> > is not my> > > > > > >>>> domain]> > > > > > >>>>> > > > > & !> > > >gt; >>>> ==>> > > > > > >>>>> For eg. Jupiter an important planet for Scorpio Lagna> > placed in> > > > > > >>>>> Makara in Rasi (debilitation) and in Dhanu in Bhava (own> > sign).> > > > > > >>>> <==> > > > > > >>>> As you could see, this is absurd. For Scorpio Lagna, Ju> > in> > > > > > >>>> Capricorn (Makara) rasi, is in 3rd house (bhava), and is> > > > in Capricorn> > > > > > >>>> sign. (Sign and house being the same). This is the ancient> > concept;> > > > > > >>>> and the result derivation would be as per that. > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>> ==>> > > > > > >>>>> In continuation to our earlier discussions on> > > > > > >>>>> Retrogression, in this example Jupiter is Retrograde and> > placed in> > > > > > >>>>> Meena in Navamsa. How much is the effect of> > debilitation/own sign> > > > > ! > >>>>> in this case.> > > > > > >>>> <==> > > > > > >>>> That is an entirely different subject (i.e. how to> > interpret Sign> > > > > > >>>> and Navamsa results) and would discussed later.> > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>> ==>> > > > > > >>>>> Last but not the least I am eagerly waiting for your next> > file on> > > > > > >>>>> birth time rectification.> > > > > > >>>> <==> > > > > > >>>> Yes, this is one thing in the urgent task list. I will> > try to> > > > > > >>>> complete it by next Saturday or prior to that. > > > > > > >>>> Love,> > > > > > >>>> Sreenadh> > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>> --- In> > > > > > >>>>> > > > > >> > > >> >> <%40yaho\> > ogroups.com>,> > > > > > >> "kankan_73"> > > > > > >>> & g!> > > >t; <kankan_73@> wrote:> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> Dear Sreenadh ji,> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> Please tell me something on the importance of Bhava Chart.> > Do this> > > > > > >>>>> chart has importance like Navamsa. I have seen mentioning> > of bhava> > > > > > >>>>> position (if different from Rasi Chart) while mentioning> > Planetary> > > > > > >>>>> results in old Jathakams written by Kerala astrologers.> > What is> > > > > > >>>> the> > > > > > >>>>> result if an important planet is posited in different> > signs in Rasi> > > > > > >>>>> and Bhava.> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> For eg. Jupiter an important planet for Scorpio Lagna> > placed in> > > > > > >>>>> Makara in Rasi (debilitation) and in Dhanu in Bhava (own> > sign).> > > > > > >>> & g!> > > >t; How> > > > > > >>>>> do we analyze this. In contin uation to our earlier> > discussions on> > > > > > >>>>> Retrogression, in this example Jupiter is Retrograde and> > placed in> > > > > > >>>>> Meena in Navamsa. How much is the effect of> > debilitation/own sign> > > > > > >>>> in> > > > > > >>>>> this case.> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> I request you to give your views on Bhava vs Rasi> > > > > > >>>>> differences/effects in general and also your view on the> > above> > > > > > >>>>> example.> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> Last but not the least I am eagerly waiting for your next> > file on> > > > > > >>>>> birth time rectification.> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> Thanks & regards,> > > > > > >>>>> Kannan> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>> & !> > > >gt;> > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 8, 2007 Report Share Posted July 8, 2007 Dear Sunil ji, Thanks a lot for the same. We are friends, right? All the discussion is about the subject in hand, and pardon any mistakes from my part. I know your contribution to astrology would be great; even now you have already did a lot to preserve the almost lost ancient nadi texts as I know from my personal interactions with you. The hope of the world of ancient indian astrology rests with the hard efforts o f a very few number of sincere individuals. Once again thanks for coming back to the list. Love, Sreenadh , " jjnet2000_in " <jjnet2000_in wrote: > > Om Datta Guru > Dear Sreenadh, > I had to come back due to v reality posting a personal mail saying he > had replied on list, I felt it would incorrect of me not to check. > Anyways thanks for ur kind comments. I must sign off now and go back > into my shell which i have tend to love a lot > best > Sunil John > Mumbai > > > , " Sreenadh " > <sreesog@> wrote: > > > > Dear Sunil john ji, > > You may read it or not. But thanks for the good mail. > > Love, > > Sreenadh > > , " jjnet2000_in " > > jjnet2000_in@ wrote: > > > > > > Om Datta Guru > > > > > > Dear Robert, > > > Though I had walked off this list long back due to the racist remark > but > > > was compelled to write in ur defense as I know u are a genuine > seeker of > > > this shastra. This mail is not intended just for u :- > > > I feel we have a different problem its not about whether Outer > Planets > > > were written by our sages but do we have the Open Mind to understand > > > jyotish, is it a growing science. Do the planets behave differently > in > > > different yugas (clues to this have been given in many old books), > so > > > should we alter our thinking. > > > > > > 1) We do not have even 1-5 % of the ancient books so debating if > outer > > > planets were written in the old books is fruitless especially since > > > there are hundreds of books in libraries and at homes which are yet > to > > > be translated. Even the few nadis with me are gathering dust though > i > > > have begged Good scholars of sanskrit to translate it and they are > > > unable to do so. Sometimes I feel if Nadi work is meant for > everyone > > > e.g Santhanam died all of a sudden when he had almost finished > Bhrigu > > > Nadi & who ever has touched Bhrigu Nadi has faced unsurmountable > > > problems. I wish he had brought it out, he had said all works aside > and > > > Bhrigu Nadi in one side, thats the worth of it. > > > > > > 2) If KNRao challenged the marathi astrologers this must be taken in > > > another context, we must understand Rao Sahebs strength & weakness > first > > > (this is not meant to demean him) - one of his own mentor in mundane > > > astrology the Late Hardeo Sharma Trivedi used to use Outer Planets > > > fantastically in his predictions and is till date one of the > greatest > > > predictors of mundane astrology. > > > > > > 3) Ramans grandfather often said to him forget the shloka business > see > > > what works that is True astrology, so running behind shlokas for it > is > > > useless. Then even if shlokas are presented whats the use, can > anyone > > > today interpret it, I have not found a true knowledgeable guy in > > > sanskrit. > > > > > > 4) Current breed of scholars are self appointed scholars who have > zero > > > level of scientific mind and do not test any principle. thousands of > > > shlokas do not work what do they have to say to that. So should we > > > discard all the works of the Rishis who wrote it. Rishis do not > agree to > > > the effects of even something as a planet in a house, different > opinions > > > among rishis > > > > > > 5) The Late P.S.Iyer whom Rao Saheb also says was one of the most > > > fantastic astrologer used to predict to the DAY every event, he used > to > > > use the Outer Planets. > > > > > > 6) 4 hrs from Bombay is a person still alive who was brought up in a > > > tradition where books from Lopi Script were handed down to him, for > 25 > > > yrs he was taught astrology and only after that he was asked to see > his > > > first chart & practice jyotish (the money he takes is in form of > > > donation, he does not see the amount given & donates it full). I > have > > > not met an astrologer like him, of all the astrologers i have met > and > > > interacted he is the only guy I know who can UNLOCK a chart. He was > > > introduced to me by an Ex-SJC Mumbai person and I have vowed not to > take > > > current breed of astrologers to him, they do not deserve him. I > always > > > say if people on the lists from india knew astrology they would not > have > > > spare time to write here as flock of people would be outside their > > > house. This man has a daily visitation of 100 people and he drives > the > > > rest away. He uses Outer Planets and his parampara is of more than > 14 > > > generations, at that time the world did not even know of Outer > Planets. > > > I asked him to share the shlokas from his family, he said can u or > > > anyone read them, then do u all have the ability to decode it, whats > the > > > use of getting into scholarly mode that 'Only when u see the shloka > u > > > would believe, forget shlokas test the technique only then u would > learn > > > astrology' - he told me. > > > > > > I have begged him to come out with a book but he refuses, this vidya > is > > > only misused by egoists so he does not want a curse of sharing that > > > knowledge to such readers. He is a DashaGranthi Brahmin btw, my > efforts > > > still continue in him bringing at least a basic book. > > > > > > 7) Our astrology in current form is useless in a deeper sense, we > > > realise that when we read ChandraKala Nadi (Devekerelam) & to a > certain > > > extent Bhavartha Ratnakara for e.g > > > > > > 8) Narendra Desai the greatest astrologer to walk into america as > per > > > most senior astrologers in america had seen the text of Vasistha > Nadi > > > wherein Outer Planets was mentioned and we all know how fantastic a > > > predictor he was, ofcourse his breed will never be born again. > People on > > > lists will sit here whole life arguing that Outer Planets are not > > > mentioned in classics but no one has the guts to test it on 100 > charts > > > with an open mind. Only when we test we realise what we are missing > and > > > alas we say we hide behind Parasara's back as if we know everything > that > > > he said. We cant even interpret his shlokas well. If we read first 2 > > > chapters of BPHS and UNDERSTAND what he is trying to say (which is > > > understandable as it is in clear english) we would know that he is > not > > > going to reveal everything that is astrology at all so its useless > to > > > hide behind his back. > > > Shri Narendra Desai had a saying 'Do not listen to what people say, > this > > > Uranus works and it works too well'. > > > > > > 9) People say that the issue is not if outerplanets takes 100 yrs > blah > > > blah to move from a sign, what about Jupiter it takes only 1 yr, can > we > > > say with all honesty that we understand how Jupiter is going to give > > > results in a chart or say any other planet in jyotish - ofcourse not > we > > > do not know Jyotish as to even what Jyotish Is - this is the truth > and > > > can be found out when we meet masters who had some knowledge of this > > > science. > > > > > > 10) Jyotish is an internal Sadhana which requires Bhakti of the > highest > > > order and people who are argumentative, have anger, have jealousy, > want > > > to put others down, have ego, have need for fame or getting > themselves > > > shown as scholars will never understand it in this or any lifetime. > Even > > > Parasara and other sages have mentioned the above criteria, I guess > they > > > were not fools. This vidya is of Sanyasi's and not common man, > anyone > > > who has travelled in search of true jyotish n met masters will > realise > > > this statement as he will often find this answer staring right at > his > > > face. > > > > > > I appreciate people like u who have tested the outer planets in over > > > hundred charts, u are far better off than us who only talk talk talk > or > > > hide behind shlokas and we cant even test the shlokas that we know > on > > > 100 charts. > > > > > > To end this,' We do not understand what the sages have said so > getting > > > into arguments or discussions and says Sages said this or that is > > > Absurdity' > > > > > > best wishes > > > Sunil John > > > Mumbai > > > P.S: To others pls do not waste ur energy in replying to this mail, > I do > > > not have the time or inclination to read it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Robert Koch <rk@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Namah Shivaya > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > > > > > Dear Mr. Nair, > > > > > > > > Thank you for your post as well, which, although much less cynical > > > > than the responses of Sreenadh-ji, poses some good points. I too > > > > have argued for years since embarking on an ambitious study of > > > > Jyotish in 1984 that Uranus, Neptune and Pluto have no place > within > > > > the practice of classical Jyotish. What naksatras do they rule? > Who > > > > is their Devata, etc.? But my original stoicism toward these > planets > > > > has changed due to undeniable experience of their > > > > affects. Astrologers must bring different approaches to the table > as > > > > to the usefulness of these planets in actual astrological > practice, > > > > rather than endless parrot-like quoting of shastras in an effort > to > > > > dismiss them. There are those whose habit is to disable or ignore > > > > new approaches based on scriptural and classical reference, and > then > > > > there are those who seek to find out in practice if they work or > not > > > > or are useful. I prefer to take the latter route frankly. > > > > > > > > Let me make my point more clear: I believe in the active and > > > > enthusiastic efforts to try, research, and investigate the various > > > > methods of astrology being put forth. If there is even an inkling > of > > > > reference to Vasishta Nadi, or Kapila Nadi as to Uranus, Neptune > and > > > > Pluto, or if stalwarts in the field for whom I have great respect > (as > > > > an example, Sri Chandulal S. Patel who did extensive research on > the > > > > use of outer planets) then I personally will not sit on my hands > > > > until I have seen their effect in at least 100 charts. The fact > is, > > > > that if transit Pluto moves over the lagna or Moon of the chart, > you > > > > will not be able to deny the life-changing events and affects that > > > > such transits bring forward. This has been my observation testing > it > > > > in hundreds of charts in a period of 23 years. There are various > > > > progression methods too practiced by both Nadi astrologers as well > as > > > > western astrologers, and these will bring very specific events to > our > > > > awareness referencing these outer planets as well. > > > > > > > > However, you are right, if Sri K.N. Rao challenged some Marathi > > > > astrologers to demonstrate their researches on outer planets, then > > > > the latter should have come forward to prove their point. > > > > > > > > Anyway, so how will we use our classical knowledge then? To > dismiss > > > > or negate, or to rejuvenate the energy of discovery by trial and > > > > error, research and investigation? It is all up to the > disposition > > > > of the individual astrologer and how he/she sees the learning and > > > > practice of this great science. If I think for a moment that my > > > > technique or knowledge is sufficient, and all the while I have not > > > > practically tested even what I do know on a multiplicity of > charts, > > > > then Jyotish becomes a dry, intellectual hobby at best. Then it > only > > > > serves to reinforce the ego of the astrologer, rather than > becoming a > > > > vehicle to uplift and enlighten others. If, however, the > astrologer > > > > continually tries, tests, and researches, then he keeps the > science > > > > alive and you may be surprised how many secrets are revealed to a > > > > person with that attitude toward his practice. > > > > > > > > With best regards, and no disrespect intended toward anyone - > > > > > > > > Robert > > > > > > > > At 01:48 AM 7/5/2007, you wrote: > > > > > > > > >Hare rama krishna, > > > > > > > > > >dear robertji, > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for your post. > > > > > > > > > >But as seekers of truth and holders of light called jyothisha > > > > >should we go by some stray references which quoted by some one in > > > > >some group or we shud look for its textual reference.in tamil or > > > > >sanskrit ,as most of naadis in this laungage and quote the page > > > > >--line of concerned books. > > > > > > > > > >my observations. > > > > > > > > > >1)this planets stays more years and transit in ones life is > > > > >negligible as almost 100 or more years it stays in one rasi > > > > > > > > > > 2) There is no graha --khetra allotted to this planets by vedic > > > > > seers,like ucha ,swa or neecha . > > > > > > > > > >3)There is no dasa periods as its important in delination of > results. > > > > > > > > > >4) their nature ,karaka and frndly and enmy planets r not > identified > > > > >again important in vedic style of delination of results. > > > > > > > > > >And i read --i dont hav text--in varaha hora --varahmihira > describes > > > > >--there are 100s crores of planets are there but we take only 7 > > > > >planets and 2 chaya grahs ( its some thing like grhanam shatha > kodi > > > > >---- like this --may be sree nath can help me ),as only this > planets > > > > >can influence in ecliptical path of earth . > > > > > > > > > >Also one naadi astrology people under the team of sri Taneja of > > > > >delhi uses this planets as i was told he was taught this method > by > > > > >one J C LUTRA ,again i dont know whats their sourse,and i could > not > > > > >test it as they use differrent ayanamsha and charges 15000/- or > some > > > > >for software ,so i leav it > > > > > > > > > >Once in one astro conference held and chaired by BV raman ,sri KN > > > > >rao challenged all marathi astrologers to prove those who uses > extra > > > > >sataurnian planets ,all shied away ,most of them were famous > > > astrologers > > > > > > > > > >i heard in mahabharath vedvyas mentiones indra varuna,rudra dring > > > > >the time of war --yes i dont hav that part with me now > > > > > > > > > >But its more mundane as a bloody distructive war. > > > > > > > > > >pls produce textual support. > > > > > > > > > >regrds sunil nair > > > > > > > > > >om shreem mahalaxmai namah. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Robert Koch rk@ > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Prafulla, > > > > > > > > > > > > At 08:56 AM 7/4/2007, you wrote: > > > > > > >Dear Sir > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Harshal, Neptune etc are referred in one of the nadi..I do > not > > > > > > >remember..one of the jyotish forum member shared that on > another > > > > > > >thread in another forum. > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, according to my sources also, Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto > are > > > > > > taught in Vasishta and Kapila Nadis. > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > Robert Koch > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > >http://www.prafulla.net > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " The right to be heard does not automatically include the > right > > > to > > > > > > >be taken seriously. " > > > > > > >************************************************ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > navagraha@ > > > > > > > > ! Wed, 4 Jul 2007 09:02:47 -0400 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Re: Re: Importance of > > > Bhava Chart > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Namaste Sreenadh, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are astrologers in Maharashatra that give absolutely > > > brilliant > > > > > > > > predictions. They use Hershel, Neptune etc. Rarely use > dashas. > > > I agree > > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > you that Hershel and neptune have no classical standing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I personally do not think hershel and neptune don't need > to be > > > used to > > > > > > > > give > > > > > > > > predictions. Quest for Pramana in classics is the way to > go. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 7/4/07, Sreenadh sreesog@ wrote: > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Dear Prafulla ji, > > > > > > > >> I don't know. That is not my domai! n as well. I am after > > > ancient > > > > > > > >> Indian astrology - in a continuing search for the > originals. > > > That is > > > > > > > >> the only thing I can say. > > > > > > > >> Love, > > > > > > > >> Sreenadh > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> --- In > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40yaho\ > \ > > > ogroups.com>, > > > > > > > >> Prafulla Gang > > > > > > > >> jyotish@ wrote: > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> Dear Sreenadh ji > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> I am not familiar with history of jyotish and sanskrit > as > > > well. But > > > > > > > >> In my observation - most traditionalist in northern India > use > > > bhava > > > > > > > >> chalit chart for quite accurate predictions. If it does > not > > > make > > > > > > > >> sense, then how come predictions are so accurate? > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> regards / Prafulla Gang > > > > > > > >>> http://www.prafulla.net > > > > > > > & ! > > > > >gt;>> > > > > > > > >>> " The right to be heard does not automatically include > the > > > right to > > > > > > > >> be taken seriously. " > > > > > > > >>> ************************************************ > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > >>>> sreesog@ > > > > > > > >>>> Tue, 03 Jul 2007 05:59:46 -0000 > > > > > > > >>>> To: > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40yaho\ > \ > > > ogroups.com> > > > > > > > >>>> Re: Importance of > Bhava > > > Chart > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > >>>> Dear Kannan ji, > > > > > > > >>>> There is " no seperate bhava chart " ; the Rasi chart > itself > > > is the > > > > > > > >>>> bhava chart. Considering bhava chart as a seperate > entity > > > originated > > > > > > ! > >>>> after the period of Sripati of 10th centuary AD. It > is > > > misleading > > > > > > > >>>> concept similar to considering Navamsa as a seperate > chart > > > not > > > > > > > >>>> supported by ancient sages. > > > > > > > >>>> You can find more info regarding the same from the > > > following file > > > > > > > >>>> present in the file section of the group. > > > > > > > >>>> URL: > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh/ > > > > > > > >>>> Signs and Houses.pdf > > > > > > > >>>> As you could see there is no point in discussing > > > non-existent things > > > > > > > >>>> which are not supported by the sages; as of me I trying > to > > > > > understand > > > > > > > >>>> what they taught, as per their own words. [And > therefore > > > any > > > > > > > >>>> discussion on Bhava, considering it not the same as > sign, > > > is not my > > > > > > > >>>> domain] > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > & ! > > > > >gt; >>>> ==> > > > > > > > >>>>> For eg. Jupiter an important planet for Scorpio Lagna > > > placed in > > > > > > > >>>>> Makara in Rasi (debilitation) and in Dhanu in Bhava > (own > > > sign). > > > > > > > >>>> <== > > > > > > > >>>> As you could see, this is absurd. For Scorpio Lagna, > Ju > > > in > > > > > > > >>>> Capricorn (Makara) rasi, is in 3rd house (bhava), and > is > > > > > in Capricorn > > > > > > > >>>> sign. (Sign and house being the same). This is the > ancient > > > concept; > > > > > > > >>>> and the result derivation would be as per that. > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > >>>> ==> > > > > > > > >>>>> In continuation to our earlier discussions on > > > > > > > >>>>> Retrogression, in this example Jupiter is Retrograde > and > > > placed in > > > > > > > >>>>> Meena in Navamsa. How much is the effect of > > > debilitation/own sign > > > > > > ! > >>>>> in this case. > > > > > > > >>>> <== > > > > > > > >>>> That is an entirely different subject (i.e. how to > > > interpret Sign > > > > > > > >>>> and Navamsa results) and would discussed later. > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > >>>> ==> > > > > > > > >>>>> Last but not the least I am eagerly waiting for your > next > > > file on > > > > > > > >>>>> birth time rectification. > > > > > > > >>>> <== > > > > > > > >>>> Yes, this is one thing in the urgent task list. I > will > > > try to > > > > > > > >>>> complete it by next Saturday or prior to that. > > > > > > > >>>> Love, > > > > > > > >>>> Sreenadh > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > >>>> --- In > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <%40yaho\ > \ > > > ogroups.com>, > > > > > > > >> " kankan_73 " > > > > > > > >>> & g! > > > > >t; <kankan_73@> wrote: > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>> Dear Sreenadh ji, > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>> Please tell me something on the importance of Bhava > Chart. > > > Do this > > > > > > > >>>>> chart has importance like Navamsa. I have seen > mentioning > > > of bhava > > > > > > > >>>>> position (if different from Rasi Chart) while > mentioning > > > Planetary > > > > > > > >>>>> results in old Jathakams written by Kerala > astrologers. > > > What is > > > > > > > >>>> the > > > > > > > >>>>> result if an important planet is posited in different > > > signs in Rasi > > > > > > > >>>>> and Bhava. > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>> For eg. Jupiter an important planet for Scorpio Lagna > > > placed in > > > > > > > >>>>> Makara in Rasi (debilitation) and in Dhanu in Bhava > (own > > > sign). > > > > > > > >>> & g! > > > > >t; How > > > > > > > >>>>> do we analyze this. In contin uation to our earlier > > > discussions on > > > > > > > >>>>> Retrogression, in this example Jupiter is Retrograde > and > > > placed in > > > > > > > >>>>> Meena in Navamsa. How much is the effect of > > > debilitation/own sign > > > > > > > >>>> in > > > > > > > >>>>> this case. > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>> I request you to give your views on Bhava vs Rasi > > > > > > > >>>>> differences/effects in general and also your view on > the > > > above > > > > > > > >>>>> example. > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>> Last but not the least I am eagerly waiting for your > next > > > file on > > > > > > > >>>>> birth time rectification. > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>> Thanks & regards, > > > > > > > >>>>> Kannan > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > >>> & ! > > > > >gt; > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > >>>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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