Guest guest Posted July 9, 2007 Report Share Posted July 9, 2007 Ms. Norelli-Bachelet has recently written a very interesting announcement for The Movement for Restoration of Vedic Wisdom that some of you might find interesting. It concerns the Tropical zodiac and its Vedic roots. I am a bit pre-occupied with other yoga studies and projects and don't yet have a feel for the discussions of this group, and apologize if this line of thought is not within the bounds of what you all like to discuss. Her announcement is titled 'A New Era', written 4 July 2007 and it begins: 'It has come to pass that approximately two dozen temples in a district in Tamil Nadu, renowned for its Vedic studies, will be celebrating the forthcoming rituals according to the Vedic Sayana/Tropical Zodiac system. The first will be the up-coming Gokulashtami – 6 August. All the rest of the Observances will follow as per the Tropical Calendar. This occurrence is being given wide publicity throughout India. It coincides with the Tamil translation publication of [The Movement for the Restoration of Vedic Wisdom] ‘Manifesto’.' Link to 'A New Era': movementforrestorationofvedicwisdom/message/193 Best of Light, Lori Tompkins P.S. If anyone is interested, I posted a copy of the original 'Manifesto' on my website, see: http://quantumyoga.org/Restoration%20Vedic%20Wisdom.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2007 Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 Dear Tomkins ji, Please request Bachelet ji to study the Ancient Astronomical mathematics, The Vedic references to Zodiac. The Vedas rafters to Nakhatras and Taras separately; Where Nakshtra means 'Na kherati iti Nakshatra; meaning 'the one which does not move' is nakshatra; the word is used to refer ONLY to the nakhshatra divisions; The cardinal points move in the backdrop of this Nakhatra divisions; Those words never means 'constellations' as she arguing borrowing the words of Kaul, but instead clear mathematical divisions which sprung from scientific understanding. There is a long history for India before the imported 'alberuni'. Of course I am neither against 'Sayana/Tropical Zodiac' nor against 'Siderial/Nirayana Zodiac' - as I know both of them existed from the Vedic period itself. Please don't think that Indians were uncultured nomads who could see only unto constellations and not even have a clear mathematical view of the solar system and the rhythms and movements involved! Do you know from where the word 'Mechha' originated? It is from the word 'Meluhha' which is nothing but 'Harappa'! Do you know why Vedas are called 'Nigama'? Nigama means 'flow out'- from where? The Vedic culture is the civilization that flowed out form the Sarasvati (Today's Ghaggar-Hakra River) river region including Gugarat, Kalibangan archeological evidence etc to Ganga region including Napal & Bihar! Yajnavalkaya lived in the kingdom of Vidarbha ruled by Janaka keeping today's Janakpuri of Napal as the capitel. Brihadaryanyaka Upanishad, Yanjavalkya smiriti etc originated here; and it is the kingdom of Sita of Ramayana. Do you know why Tantras are called 'Agama' meaning 'the one which came'? Yes you could guess. The Siva of Harappa site is depicted as sitting in 'Moolabhadrasana' - try sitting the same way taking reference form some Yoga text; You will know what it means! The god of Aveste is termed 'Ahur Masda' the sanskrit of which would be 'Asura Medha' - meaning 'the intelligence of Asuras'. Can't you see the similarity between Aveste (the divine text of Parsis) and Adharva Veda? Why Gujarat is know as Zourashta? Note that Zoroastrer born around BC 1500 was an enlightened master who revolutionalized and reconstructed an old dharma. Kalibengan and Harappa existed at the same period of time; i.e. The Agama (Tantric/Asura) and Nigama(Vedic/Deva) cultures existed at the same time - One at one side of Sarasvati and the other at the other side! So please ask her to study a bit of available Archeological evidences, and available ancient Indian vedic and nonvedic literature as well before jumping into conclusions. It is easy to put Blavisky, Jung, Alberuni, Koul and Bits of translations of Vedic literature read and cook a 'copyrighted' modern 'commercial' synthesis (a curry in Indian terms) in no time. But one should have a look back at his/her own knowledge before DISCARDING any ancient system! Even Vivekananda warns about such mistakes many times - yes, which Bachelet already committed and improving. Yes, I regard her efforts - but this is the view I have about it. In essence my resistance is " about here REGECTION and DISCARDING of ancient knowledge; without studies it properly, before having any scholarly understanding about that vast ancient Indian knowledge. Yes, anything CONSTRUCTIVE is welcome; but enough of DISTRUCTION efforts, commercialization, copyrighting, exporting the history to Greeks, importing alberunies etc. " Masked destruction acting as constructive is more dangerous that the real destructive forces appearing as it is! Love, Sreenadh , " Lori Tompkins " <lotus wrote: > > Ms. Norelli-Bachelet has recently written a very interesting announcement for The Movement for Restoration of Vedic Wisdom that some of you might find interesting. It concerns the Tropical zodiac and its Vedic roots. I am a bit pre-occupied with other yoga studies and projects and don't yet have a feel for the discussions of this group, and apologize if this line of thought is not within the bounds of what you all like to discuss. > > Her announcement is titled 'A New Era', written 4 July 2007 and it begins: > 'It has come to pass that approximately two dozen temples in a district in Tamil Nadu, renowned for its Vedic studies, will be celebrating the forthcoming rituals according to the Vedic Sayana/Tropical Zodiac system. The first will be the up-coming Gokulashtami - 6 August. All the rest of the Observances will follow as per the Tropical Calendar. This occurrence is being given wide publicity throughout India. It coincides with the Tamil translation publication of [The Movement for the Restoration of Vedic Wisdom] 'Manifesto'.' > > Link to 'A New Era': > movementforrestorationofvedicwisdom/mess age/193 > > Best of Light, > Lori Tompkins > > P.S. If anyone is interested, I posted a copy of the original 'Manifesto' on my website, see: > http://quantumyoga.org/Restoration%20Vedic%20Wisdom.htm > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2007 Report Share Posted July 11, 2007 Sreenadh, I had a really hard time following your objections to Ms. Norelli-Bachelet's work on bringing the Tropical Zodiac back into focus. I could not understand most of it... I think due to my own language barriers and your own. I am also wondering, who are you quoting in the end? I would like to understand the words and concepts you have used as examples to prove something of your view, but all I could really get was that you reject her work because you feel she rejects and discards ancient Vedic knowledge. I find that in her research and yoga concerning the Tropical and Sidereal Zodiacs in Vedic literature to be not a rejection of ancient Vedic knowledge at all. But on this we will probably have to agree to disagree. I did forward your response to Ms. Norelli-Bachelet, because it seemed her place, not mine, to address your criticisms of her work. I understand if you do not want to engage in this line of discussion with her. But, if you do, I think it is important to try to discuss these things in a way that non-Indians and non Vedic scholars can understand. These issues affect the entire population of the world, not just India. Best of Light, Lori Ms. Norelli-Bachelet's comments '. . . He is simply throwing things out that have no relevance to the argument and the FACTS. He is relying on the translation of certain words from the Sanskrit as if that alone were sufficient to provide the INNER MEANING of the text. This simply does not happen. If that were so then every Sanskritist would be a Seer. But we know that is not so. Into this category fall the Sreenaths and the AKKs of this world. They know Sanskrit, but they have no YOGIC EXPERIENCE OF THE WORD. Everyone knows that the Bija Correction refers to the point in the sky that the Pundits have determined is the starting point of the sidereal circle, and that from that point all the Nakshatras are laid out. They are then binding on the astrologer who uses that particular Correction, and all horoscopes are then based on this additional 'correction'. Thus we have today a 23-day discrepancy between that circle and the Tropical Zodiac, and the incongruity of horoscopes in India being draw up with the discrepancy incorporated. Thus, if we want a chart for celebrations in Aries, given this Bija Correction it will figure as Pisces; and if we want Makar, we will have to start the 0 Point of Capricorn ONLY FROM ITS 23RD DEGREE! Whatever sophisticated translations your friend Sreenath gives you, they are, in the main, irrelevant to the discussion at hand - the only one that is of interest to those of us of the Movement. This is that the Tropical Zodiac be reinstated as the ONE CIRCLE (as it is called in the Veda) based on which all calculations are done. I might close by adding that of course the trajectory of the Precession was known in the Vedic Age. This is not new to me, as a study of my work will verify. That they knew of the Precession is amply proven by the Vishnu verses in the Rig Veda especially. But the Seers were not so foolish as to prescribe festivals and rituals by calculations using that outer sidereal circle as the foundation. No real, accomplished astrologer would do this, and certainly no realised Rishi, familiar with the heart and soul of the Veda could commit such a blunder. You may feel free to post this to Sreenath, if you like, Thea' , " Sreenadh " <sreesog wrote: > > Dear Tomkins ji, > Please request Bachelet ji to study the Ancient Astronomical > mathematics, The Vedic references to Zodiac. The Vedas rafters to > Nakhatras and Taras separately; Where Nakshtra means 'Na kherati iti > Nakshatra; meaning 'the one which does not move' is nakshatra; the > word is used to refer ONLY to the nakhshatra divisions; The cardinal > points move in the backdrop of this Nakhatra divisions; Those words > never means 'constellations' as she arguing borrowing the words of > Kaul, but instead clear mathematical divisions which sprung from > scientific understanding. > There is a long history for India before the imported 'alberuni'. > Of course I am neither against 'Sayana/Tropical Zodiac' nor > against 'Siderial/Nirayana Zodiac' - as I know both of them existed > from the Vedic period itself. Please don't think that Indians were > uncultured nomads who could see only unto constellations and not even > have a clear mathematical view of the solar system and the rhythms > and movements involved! > Do you know from where the word 'Mechha' originated? It is from the > word 'Meluhha' which is nothing but 'Harappa'! Do you know why Vedas > are called 'Nigama'? Nigama means 'flow out'- from where? The Vedic > culture is the civilization that flowed out form the Sarasvati > (Today's Ghaggar-Hakra River) river region including Gugarat, > Kalibangan archeological evidence etc to Ganga region including Napal > & Bihar! Yajnavalkaya lived in the kingdom of Vidarbha ruled by > Janaka keeping today's Janakpuri of Napal as the capitel. > Brihadaryanyaka Upanishad, Yanjavalkya smiriti etc originated here; > and it is the kingdom of Sita of Ramayana. Do you know why Tantras > are called 'Agama' meaning 'the one which came'? Yes you could guess. > The Siva of Harappa site is depicted as sitting in 'Moolabhadrasana' - > try sitting the same way taking reference form some Yoga text; You > will know what it means! The god of Aveste is termed 'Ahur Masda' the > sanskrit of which would be 'Asura Medha' - meaning 'the intelligence > of Asuras'. Can't you see the similarity between Aveste (the divine > text of Parsis) and Adharva Veda? Why Gujarat is know as Zourashta? > Note that Zoroastrer born around BC 1500 was an enlightened master > who revolutionalized and reconstructed an old dharma. Kalibengan and > Harappa existed at the same period of time; i.e. The Agama > (Tantric/Asura) and Nigama(Vedic/Deva) cultures existed at the same > time - One at one side of Sarasvati and the other at the other > side! > So please ask her to study a bit of available Archeological > evidences, and available ancient Indian vedic and nonvedic literature > as well before jumping into conclusions. It is easy to put Blavisky, > Jung, Alberuni, Koul and Bits of translations of Vedic literature > read and cook a 'copyrighted' modern 'commercial' synthesis (a curry > in Indian terms) in no time. But one should have a look back at > his/her own knowledge before DISCARDING any ancient system! Even > Vivekananda warns about such mistakes many times - yes, which > Bachelet already committed and improving. > Yes, I regard her efforts - but this is the view I have about it. > In essence my resistance is " about here REGECTION and DISCARDING of > ancient knowledge; without studies it properly, before having any > scholarly understanding about that vast ancient Indian knowledge. > Yes, anything CONSTRUCTIVE is welcome; but enough of DISTRUCTION > efforts, commercialization, copyrighting, exporting the history to > Greeks, importing alberunies etc. " Masked destruction acting as > constructive is more dangerous that the real destructive forces > appearing as it is! > Love, > Sreenadh > > , " Lori Tompkins " > <lotus@> wrote: > > > > Ms. Norelli-Bachelet has recently written a very interesting > announcement for The Movement for Restoration of Vedic Wisdom that > some of you might find interesting. It concerns the Tropical zodiac > and its Vedic roots. I am a bit pre-occupied with other yoga studies > and projects and don't yet have a feel for the discussions of this > group, and apologize if this line of thought is not within the bounds > of what you all like to discuss. > > > > Her announcement is titled 'A New Era', written 4 July 2007 and it > begins: > > 'It has come to pass that approximately two dozen temples in a > district in Tamil Nadu, renowned for its Vedic studies, will be > celebrating the forthcoming rituals according to the Vedic > Sayana/Tropical Zodiac system. The first will be the up-coming > Gokulashtami - 6 August. All the rest of the Observances will follow > as per the Tropical Calendar. This occurrence is being given wide > publicity throughout India. It coincides with the Tamil translation > publication of [The Movement for the Restoration of Vedic > Wisdom] 'Manifesto'.' > > > > Link to 'A New Era': > > > movementforrestorationofvedicwisdom/mess > age/193 > > > > Best of Light, > > Lori Tompkins > > > > P.S. If anyone is interested, I posted a copy of the > original 'Manifesto' on my website, see: > > http://quantumyoga.org/Restoration%20Vedic%20Wisdom.htm > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 12, 2007 Report Share Posted July 12, 2007 Dear Lori, Simply tell her that her letter does not reflect yogic experience. Also - * I am not a pandit - but a simple common man. * Bija correction is not related to yogic experience : Does she know astronomy - I wonder! The mail does not reflect it. * Vedas : she does not seem to be much aware of the same; otherwise why this stupid stubbornness! Never the sages were like this, years of spiritual pursuit can never result in such a messed up state of mind! They knew there knowledge and limitations; and was humble enough to feel the divine! Where she lost the natural calmness and why this absurd attachment to 'my'! * 'Everyone knows that'.....: This is utter ignorance to talk for all when we cannot fully see ourselves - usually politicians do that (i.e. talk as if they are the representative everyone)- just to misinterpret and mislead! How come an individual of at least some spiritual experience commit this kind of mistakes - it is not usual - I wonder. * prescribe festivals and rituals : celebrations and festivals are of the inner world. If the same is not there, i.e. celebration, what use with the outer?! Psychic fights against many, absurd beliefs, projecting the attachments as divine, thinking that imagination is knowledge and reality; Where this path leads to?! The essence of meditation is 'watching ourselves'; how can someone in the path of yoga miss it! I wonder. I would love to sit and meditate with Bachelet, but not to discuss such things (i.e. Astrology, Astronomy, Vedas etc). Her misconceptions and approach towards the same does not seems to worth it. Yes, I have a regard for her as an individual in the path of spirituality; and share my love with her; but how much the path remains! Convey my regards to her - but please this discussion may not lead any where - should we do it? If you want to we can; but the results may not be as expected. When it comes to spirituality, it is good to sit with and meditate; when people of the same path are together. But not to discuss astronomy, astrology, vedas, archeology, etc; the convictions and knowledge differ; and usually we end up in lossing a possible friend. Yes, Lori it is up to you to decide whether to forward it to her or not. P.S.: Ask her not to say each and every moment that put the YOGIC EXPERIENCE in capital boost up her own ego - it is dangerous; and is ignorance. Ohm Sahanavavatu...Sahanou bhunaktu...Saha veeryam Karvavahi... Ohm...Santi...Santi....Santi... Love, Sreenadh , " Lori Tompkins " <lotus wrote: > > Sreenadh, I had a really hard time following your objections to Ms. > Norelli-Bachelet's work on bringing the Tropical Zodiac back into > focus. I could not understand most of it... I think due to my own > language barriers and your own. I am also wondering, who are you > quoting in the end? > > I would like to understand the words and concepts you have used as > examples to prove something of your view, but all I could really get > was that you reject her work because you feel she rejects and discards > ancient Vedic knowledge. > > I find that in her research and yoga concerning the Tropical and > Sidereal Zodiacs in Vedic literature to be not a rejection of ancient > Vedic knowledge at all. But on this we will probably have to agree to > disagree. > > I did forward your response to Ms. Norelli-Bachelet, because it seemed > her place, not mine, to address your criticisms of her work. I > understand if you do not want to engage in this line of discussion > with her. But, if you do, I think it is important to try to discuss > these things in a way that non-Indians and non Vedic scholars can > understand. These issues affect the entire population of the world, > not just India. > > Best of Light, > Lori > > > Ms. Norelli-Bachelet's comments > > '. . . He is simply throwing things out that have no relevance to the > argument and the FACTS. > > He is relying on the translation of certain words from the Sanskrit as > if that alone were sufficient to provide the INNER MEANING of the > text. This simply does not happen. If that were so then every > Sanskritist would be a Seer. But we know that is not so. Into this > category fall the Sreenaths and the AKKs of this world. They know > Sanskrit, but they have no YOGIC EXPERIENCE OF THE WORD. > Everyone knows that the Bija Correction refers to the point in the > sky that the Pundits have determined is the starting point of the > sidereal circle, and that from that point all the Nakshatras are laid > out. They are then binding on the astrologer who uses that particular > Correction, and all horoscopes are then based on this additional > 'correction'. Thus we have today a 23-day discrepancy between that > circle and the Tropical Zodiac, and the incongruity of horoscopes in > India being draw up with the discrepancy incorporated. Thus, if we > want a chart for celebrations in Aries, given this Bija Correction it > will figure as Pisces; and if we want Makar, we will have to start the > 0 Point of Capricorn ONLY FROM ITS 23RD DEGREE! > Whatever sophisticated translations your friend Sreenath gives > you, they are, in the main, irrelevant to the discussion at hand - the > only one that is of interest to those of us of the Movement. This is > that the Tropical Zodiac be reinstated as the ONE CIRCLE (as it is > called in the Veda) based on which all calculations are done. > I might close by adding that of course the trajectory of the > Precession was known in the Vedic Age. This is not new to me, as a > study of my work will verify. That they knew of the Precession is > amply proven by the Vishnu verses in the Rig Veda especially. But the > Seers were not so foolish as to prescribe festivals and rituals by > calculations using that outer sidereal circle as the foundation. No > real, accomplished astrologer would do this, and certainly no realised > Rishi, familiar with the heart and soul of the Veda could commit such > a blunder. > You may feel free to post this to Sreenath, if you like, Thea' > > > > , " Sreenadh " > <sreesog@> wrote: > > > > Dear Tomkins ji, > > Please request Bachelet ji to study the Ancient Astronomical > > mathematics, The Vedic references to Zodiac. The Vedas rafters to > > Nakhatras and Taras separately; Where Nakshtra means 'Na kherati iti > > Nakshatra; meaning 'the one which does not move' is nakshatra; the > > word is used to refer ONLY to the nakhshatra divisions; The cardinal > > points move in the backdrop of this Nakhatra divisions; Those words > > never means 'constellations' as she arguing borrowing the words of > > Kaul, but instead clear mathematical divisions which sprung from > > scientific understanding. > > There is a long history for India before the imported 'alberuni'. > > Of course I am neither against 'Sayana/Tropical Zodiac' nor > > against 'Siderial/Nirayana Zodiac' - as I know both of them existed > > from the Vedic period itself. Please don't think that Indians were > > uncultured nomads who could see only unto constellations and not even > > have a clear mathematical view of the solar system and the rhythms > > and movements involved! > > Do you know from where the word 'Mechha' originated? It is from the > > word 'Meluhha' which is nothing but 'Harappa'! Do you know why Vedas > > are called 'Nigama'? Nigama means 'flow out'- from where? The Vedic > > culture is the civilization that flowed out form the Sarasvati > > (Today's Ghaggar-Hakra River) river region including Gugarat, > > Kalibangan archeological evidence etc to Ganga region including Napal > > & Bihar! Yajnavalkaya lived in the kingdom of Vidarbha ruled by > > Janaka keeping today's Janakpuri of Napal as the capitel. > > Brihadaryanyaka Upanishad, Yanjavalkya smiriti etc originated here; > > and it is the kingdom of Sita of Ramayana. Do you know why Tantras > > are called 'Agama' meaning 'the one which came'? Yes you could guess. > > The Siva of Harappa site is depicted as sitting in 'Moolabhadrasana' - > > try sitting the same way taking reference form some Yoga text; You > > will know what it means! The god of Aveste is termed 'Ahur Masda' the > > sanskrit of which would be 'Asura Medha' - meaning 'the intelligence > > of Asuras'. Can't you see the similarity between Aveste (the divine > > text of Parsis) and Adharva Veda? Why Gujarat is know as Zourashta? > > Note that Zoroastrer born around BC 1500 was an enlightened master > > who revolutionalized and reconstructed an old dharma. Kalibengan and > > Harappa existed at the same period of time; i.e. The Agama > > (Tantric/Asura) and Nigama(Vedic/Deva) cultures existed at the same > > time - One at one side of Sarasvati and the other at the other > > side! > > So please ask her to study a bit of available Archeological > > evidences, and available ancient Indian vedic and nonvedic literature > > as well before jumping into conclusions. It is easy to put Blavisky, > > Jung, Alberuni, Koul and Bits of translations of Vedic literature > > read and cook a 'copyrighted' modern 'commercial' synthesis (a curry > > in Indian terms) in no time. But one should have a look back at > > his/her own knowledge before DISCARDING any ancient system! Even > > Vivekananda warns about such mistakes many times - yes, which > > Bachelet already committed and improving. > > Yes, I regard her efforts - but this is the view I have about it. > > In essence my resistance is " about here REGECTION and DISCARDING of > > ancient knowledge; without studies it properly, before having any > > scholarly understanding about that vast ancient Indian knowledge. > > Yes, anything CONSTRUCTIVE is welcome; but enough of DISTRUCTION > > efforts, commercialization, copyrighting, exporting the history to > > Greeks, importing alberunies etc. " Masked destruction acting as > > constructive is more dangerous that the real destructive forces > > appearing as it is! > > Love, > > Sreenadh > > > > , " Lori Tompkins " > > <lotus@> wrote: > > > > > > Ms. Norelli-Bachelet has recently written a very interesting > > announcement for The Movement for Restoration of Vedic Wisdom that > > some of you might find interesting. It concerns the Tropical zodiac > > and its Vedic roots. I am a bit pre-occupied with other yoga studies > > and projects and don't yet have a feel for the discussions of this > > group, and apologize if this line of thought is not within the bounds > > of what you all like to discuss. > > > > > > Her announcement is titled 'A New Era', written 4 July 2007 and it > > begins: > > > 'It has come to pass that approximately two dozen temples in a > > district in Tamil Nadu, renowned for its Vedic studies, will be > > celebrating the forthcoming rituals according to the Vedic > > Sayana/Tropical Zodiac system. The first will be the up-coming > > Gokulashtami - 6 August. All the rest of the Observances will follow > > as per the Tropical Calendar. This occurrence is being given wide > > publicity throughout India. It coincides with the Tamil translation > > publication of [The Movement for the Restoration of Vedic > > Wisdom] 'Manifesto'.' > > > > > > Link to 'A New Era': > > > > > movementforrestorationofvedicwisdom/mess > > age/193 > > > > > > Best of Light, > > > Lori Tompkins > > > > > > P.S. If anyone is interested, I posted a copy of the > > original 'Manifesto' on my website, see: > > > http://quantumyoga.org/Restoration%20Vedic%20Wisdom.htm > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2007 Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 Dear Sreenath-ji, The statements in your reply to Lori and her postings of Ms. Norelli-Bachelet's work can only be regarded as unsuported and incoherent. What you claim is simply nonsense. As a member of this forum, I insist on facts, not your egoic and prentitious ramblings on subjects about which you have no direct knowledge. I have had a direct and irrefutable confirmation of Ms. Norelli-Bachelet's claims and can assure you and other members of this forum that the knowledge she has given forth on the Tropical Zodiac and the Veda is the highest wisdom. You would do well to study her work carefully before you make a bigger fool of yourself. Robert , " Sreenadh " <sreesog@. ...> wrote: > > Dear Lori, > Simply tell her that her letter does not reflect yogic > experience. > > Also - > * I am not a pandit - but a simple common man. > * Bija correction is not related to yogic experience : Does she know > astronomy - I wonder! The mail does not reflect it. > * Vedas : she does not seem to be much aware of the same; otherwise > why this stupid stubbornness! Never the sages were like this, years > of spiritual pursuit can never result in such a messed up state of > mind! They knew there knowledge and limitations; and was humble > enough to feel the divine! Where she lost the natural calmness and > why this absurd attachment to 'my'! > * 'Everyone knows that'.....: This is utter ignorance to talk for > all when we cannot fully see ourselves - usually politicians do that > (i.e. talk as if they are the representative everyone)- just to > misinterpret and mislead! How come an individual of at least some > spiritual experience commit this kind of mistakes - it is not usual - > I wonder. > > * prescribe festivals and rituals : celebrations and festivals are > of the inner world. If the same is not there, i.e. celebration, what > use with the outer?! Psychic fights against many, absurd beliefs, > projecting the attachments as divine, thinking that imagination is > knowledge and reality; Where this path leads to?! The essence of > meditation is 'watching ourselves'; how can someone in the path of > yoga miss it! I wonder. > > I would love to sit and meditate with Bachelet, but not to discuss > such things (i.e. Astrology, Astronomy, Vedas etc). Her > misconceptions and approach towards the same does not seems to worth > it. Yes, I have a regard for her as an individual in the path of > spirituality; and share my love with her; but how much the path > remains! > > Convey my regards to her - but please this discussion may not lead > any where - should we do it? If you want to we can; but the results > may not be as expected. When it comes to spirituality, it is good to > sit with and meditate; when people of the same path are together. But > not to discuss astronomy, astrology, vedas, archeology, etc; the > convictions and knowledge differ; and usually we end up in lossing a > possible friend. Yes, Lori it is up to you to decide whether to > forward it to her or not. > > P.S.: Ask her not to say each and every moment that put the YOGIC > EXPERIENCE in capital boost up her own ego - it is dangerous; and is > ignorance. > > Ohm Sahanavavatu...Sahanou bhunaktu...Saha veeryam Karvavahi... > Ohm...Santi...Santi....Santi... > Love, > Sreenadh > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 13, 2007 Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 Hello Sreenadh, I will pass this on to Ms. Norelli-Bachelet. Om Tapas, Lori , " Sreenadh " <sreesog wrote: > > Dear Lori, > Simply tell her that her letter does not reflect yogic > experience. > > Also - > * I am not a pandit - but a simple common man. > * Bija correction is not related to yogic experience : Does she know > astronomy - I wonder! The mail does not reflect it. > * Vedas : she does not seem to be much aware of the same; otherwise > why this stupid stubbornness! Never the sages were like this, years > of spiritual pursuit can never result in such a messed up state of > mind! They knew there knowledge and limitations; and was humble > enough to feel the divine! Where she lost the natural calmness and > why this absurd attachment to 'my'! > * 'Everyone knows that'.....: This is utter ignorance to talk for > all when we cannot fully see ourselves - usually politicians do that > (i.e. talk as if they are the representative everyone)- just to > misinterpret and mislead! How come an individual of at least some > spiritual experience commit this kind of mistakes - it is not usual - > I wonder. > > * prescribe festivals and rituals : celebrations and festivals are > of the inner world. If the same is not there, i.e. celebration, what > use with the outer?! Psychic fights against many, absurd beliefs, > projecting the attachments as divine, thinking that imagination is > knowledge and reality; Where this path leads to?! The essence of > meditation is 'watching ourselves'; how can someone in the path of > yoga miss it! I wonder. > > I would love to sit and meditate with Bachelet, but not to discuss > such things (i.e. Astrology, Astronomy, Vedas etc). Her > misconceptions and approach towards the same does not seems to worth > it. Yes, I have a regard for her as an individual in the path of > spirituality; and share my love with her; but how much the path > remains! > > Convey my regards to her - but please this discussion may not lead > any where - should we do it? If you want to we can; but the results > may not be as expected. When it comes to spirituality, it is good to > sit with and meditate; when people of the same path are together. But > not to discuss astronomy, astrology, vedas, archeology, etc; the > convictions and knowledge differ; and usually we end up in lossing a > possible friend. Yes, Lori it is up to you to decide whether to > forward it to her or not. > > P.S.: Ask her not to say each and every moment that put the YOGIC > EXPERIENCE in capital boost up her own ego - it is dangerous; and is > ignorance. > > Ohm Sahanavavatu...Sahanou bhunaktu...Saha veeryam Karvavahi... > Ohm...Santi...Santi....Santi... > Love, > Sreenadh > > , " Lori Tompkins " > <lotus@> wrote: > > > > Sreenadh, I had a really hard time following your objections to Ms. > > Norelli-Bachelet's work on bringing the Tropical Zodiac back into > > focus. I could not understand most of it... I think due to my own > > language barriers and your own. I am also wondering, who are you > > quoting in the end? > > > > I would like to understand the words and concepts you have used as > > examples to prove something of your view, but all I could really get > > was that you reject her work because you feel she rejects and > discards > > ancient Vedic knowledge. > > > > I find that in her research and yoga concerning the Tropical and > > Sidereal Zodiacs in Vedic literature to be not a rejection of > ancient > > Vedic knowledge at all. But on this we will probably have to agree > to > > disagree. > > > > I did forward your response to Ms. Norelli-Bachelet, because it > seemed > > her place, not mine, to address your criticisms of her work. I > > understand if you do not want to engage in this line of discussion > > with her. But, if you do, I think it is important to try to discuss > > these things in a way that non-Indians and non Vedic scholars can > > understand. These issues affect the entire population of the world, > > not just India. > > > > Best of Light, > > Lori > > > > > > Ms. Norelli-Bachelet's comments > > > > '. . . He is simply throwing things out that have no relevance to > the > > argument and the FACTS. > > > > He is relying on the translation of certain words from the Sanskrit > as > > if that alone were sufficient to provide the INNER MEANING of the > > text. This simply does not happen. If that were so then every > > Sanskritist would be a Seer. But we know that is not so. Into this > > category fall the Sreenaths and the AKKs of this world. They know > > Sanskrit, but they have no YOGIC EXPERIENCE OF THE WORD. > > Everyone knows that the Bija Correction refers to the point in > the > > sky that the Pundits have determined is the starting point of the > > sidereal circle, and that from that point all the Nakshatras are > laid > > out. They are then binding on the astrologer who uses that > particular > > Correction, and all horoscopes are then based on this additional > > 'correction'. Thus we have today a 23-day discrepancy between that > > circle and the Tropical Zodiac, and the incongruity of horoscopes in > > India being draw up with the discrepancy incorporated. Thus, if we > > want a chart for celebrations in Aries, given this Bija Correction > it > > will figure as Pisces; and if we want Makar, we will have to start > the > > 0 Point of Capricorn ONLY FROM ITS 23RD DEGREE! > > Whatever sophisticated translations your friend Sreenath gives > > you, they are, in the main, irrelevant to the discussion at hand - > the > > only one that is of interest to those of us of the Movement. This is > > that the Tropical Zodiac be reinstated as the ONE CIRCLE (as it is > > called in the Veda) based on which all calculations are done. > > I might close by adding that of course the trajectory of the > > Precession was known in the Vedic Age. This is not new to me, as a > > study of my work will verify. That they knew of the Precession is > > amply proven by the Vishnu verses in the Rig Veda especially. But > the > > Seers were not so foolish as to prescribe festivals and rituals by > > calculations using that outer sidereal circle as the foundation. No > > real, accomplished astrologer would do this, and certainly no > realised > > Rishi, familiar with the heart and soul of the Veda could commit > such > > a blunder. > > You may feel free to post this to Sreenath, if you like, Thea' > > > > > > > > , " Sreenadh " > > <sreesog@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Tomkins ji, > > > Please request Bachelet ji to study the Ancient Astronomical > > > mathematics, The Vedic references to Zodiac. The Vedas rafters to > > > Nakhatras and Taras separately; Where Nakshtra means 'Na kherati > iti > > > Nakshatra; meaning 'the one which does not move' is nakshatra; > the > > > word is used to refer ONLY to the nakhshatra divisions; The > cardinal > > > points move in the backdrop of this Nakhatra divisions; Those > words > > > never means 'constellations' as she arguing borrowing the words > of > > > Kaul, but instead clear mathematical divisions which sprung from > > > scientific understanding. > > > There is a long history for India before the > imported 'alberuni'. > > > Of course I am neither against 'Sayana/Tropical Zodiac' nor > > > against 'Siderial/Nirayana Zodiac' - as I know both of them > existed > > > from the Vedic period itself. Please don't think that Indians > were > > > uncultured nomads who could see only unto constellations and not > even > > > have a clear mathematical view of the solar system and the > rhythms > > > and movements involved! > > > Do you know from where the word 'Mechha' originated? It is from > the > > > word 'Meluhha' which is nothing but 'Harappa'! Do you know why > Vedas > > > are called 'Nigama'? Nigama means 'flow out'- from where? The > Vedic > > > culture is the civilization that flowed out form the Sarasvati > > > (Today's Ghaggar-Hakra River) river region including Gugarat, > > > Kalibangan archeological evidence etc to Ganga region including > Napal > > > & Bihar! Yajnavalkaya lived in the kingdom of Vidarbha ruled by > > > Janaka keeping today's Janakpuri of Napal as the capitel. > > > Brihadaryanyaka Upanishad, Yanjavalkya smiriti etc originated > here; > > > and it is the kingdom of Sita of Ramayana. Do you know why > Tantras > > > are called 'Agama' meaning 'the one which came'? Yes you could > guess. > > > The Siva of Harappa site is depicted as sitting > in 'Moolabhadrasana' - > > > try sitting the same way taking reference form some Yoga text; > You > > > will know what it means! The god of Aveste is termed 'Ahur Masda' > the > > > sanskrit of which would be 'Asura Medha' - meaning 'the > intelligence > > > of Asuras'. Can't you see the similarity between Aveste (the > divine > > > text of Parsis) and Adharva Veda? Why Gujarat is know as > Zourashta? > > > Note that Zoroastrer born around BC 1500 was an enlightened > master > > > who revolutionalized and reconstructed an old dharma. Kalibengan > and > > > Harappa existed at the same period of time; i.e. The Agama > > > (Tantric/Asura) and Nigama(Vedic/Deva) cultures existed at the > same > > > time - One at one side of Sarasvati and the other at the other > > > side! > > > So please ask her to study a bit of available Archeological > > > evidences, and available ancient Indian vedic and nonvedic > literature > > > as well before jumping into conclusions. It is easy to put > Blavisky, > > > Jung, Alberuni, Koul and Bits of translations of Vedic literature > > > read and cook a 'copyrighted' modern 'commercial' synthesis (a > curry > > > in Indian terms) in no time. But one should have a look back at > > > his/her own knowledge before DISCARDING any ancient system! Even > > > Vivekananda warns about such mistakes many times - yes, which > > > Bachelet already committed and improving. > > > Yes, I regard her efforts - but this is the view I have about > it. > > > In essence my resistance is " about here REGECTION and DISCARDING > of > > > ancient knowledge; without studies it properly, before having any > > > scholarly understanding about that vast ancient Indian knowledge. > > > Yes, anything CONSTRUCTIVE is welcome; but enough of DISTRUCTION > > > efforts, commercialization, copyrighting, exporting the history > to > > > Greeks, importing alberunies etc. " Masked destruction acting as > > > constructive is more dangerous that the real destructive forces > > > appearing as it is! > > > Love, > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > , " Lori Tompkins " > > > <lotus@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Ms. Norelli-Bachelet has recently written a very interesting > > > announcement for The Movement for Restoration of Vedic Wisdom > that > > > some of you might find interesting. It concerns the Tropical > zodiac > > > and its Vedic roots. I am a bit pre-occupied with other yoga > studies > > > and projects and don't yet have a feel for the discussions of > this > > > group, and apologize if this line of thought is not within the > bounds > > > of what you all like to discuss. > > > > > > > > Her announcement is titled 'A New Era', written 4 July 2007 and > it > > > begins: > > > > 'It has come to pass that approximately two dozen temples in a > > > district in Tamil Nadu, renowned for its Vedic studies, will be > > > celebrating the forthcoming rituals according to the Vedic > > > Sayana/Tropical Zodiac system. The first will be the up-coming > > > Gokulashtami - 6 August. All the rest of the Observances will > follow > > > as per the Tropical Calendar. This occurrence is being given wide > > > publicity throughout India. It coincides with the Tamil > translation > > > publication of [The Movement for the Restoration of Vedic > > > Wisdom] 'Manifesto'.' > > > > > > > > Link to 'A New Era': > > > > > > > > movementforrestorationofvedicwisdom/mess > > > age/193 > > > > > > > > Best of Light, > > > > Lori Tompkins > > > > > > > > P.S. If anyone is interested, I posted a copy of the > > > original 'Manifesto' on my website, see: > > > > http://quantumyoga.org/Restoration%20Vedic%20Wisdom.htm > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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