Guest guest Posted September 2, 2007 Report Share Posted September 2, 2007 hinducivilization , " Avtar Krishen Kaul " <jyotirved wrote: Dr. Yadu ji, Namaskar! The famous Krishna Dvaipayana Vedavyasa is said to be the son of " Parashara " and that is why he was known as " Parasharya " . Parashara himself was the son of Shakti. He is the famous Parashara of the Vishnu Purana fame. He has not referred to any astrological works, nor has he talked of any horoscopes etc. at all in the Vishnu Purana. As such, it is impossible that he could have written any Brihat Parashara Hora Shaastram. However, the same VP is full of astronomical references at several places, especially second amsha, adhyaya eight. There is thus a remote possibility that it could have been the same Parashara who could have written something about " Ketuchara " etc. as well. There is a catch for our " Vedic astrologers " here as well! The rashichakra referred to by Parashara in the VP is definitely the so called sayana and not the so called nirayana one, since it has catagorically stated that " Makar Sankranti is the shortest day of the year, Karka sankranti the longest day and Mesha and Tula Sankrantis are the days when day and night are equal ... and so on " . Then again, it appears to be following the Vedanga Jyotisha pattern, since in the same eighth adhyaya of second amsha, Parashara Rishi also has taken the nakshatras starting from Krittika and not from Ashvini! It means that the VP is almost a contemporary work of the VJ, about 14th century BCE. That strengthens the view further that it could have been the same Parashara who could have written something about Ketuchara in his " Samhita " . Regarding your view < " paraashiirNasya sthavirasya jaj~ne " Meaning - Born from an old tired body> I have not come across such a viewpoint in any of the works. Please, therfore, quote the exact source of your information. Regards, A K Kaul hinducivilization , " ymoharir " <ymoharir@> wrote: > > hinducivilization , " aareni " <aareni@> wrote: > > > > > Parashara being a Gotra name, there could be > > many Aachaaryas with the same name. Whether the Astronomer > Parashara, and Ayurvedic parashara were one and the same is not > answerable at this stage. > > > > > > Namste Prof Iyengar: > > AFAIK - There are six praashara gotraa's - > gaura-paraashara, niila-paraashara, kR^iShNa-paraashara, shveta- > paraashara and syaama-paraashara. > > We all know that paraashara was son of " shakti " . However, I have > always wondered about the vytapatti of the word paraashara. > > " paraashiirNasya sthavirasya jaj~ne " > Meaning - Born from an old tired body. > > Any thoughts on this. > > Thanks, > > Dr. Yadu > --- End forwarded message --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 hinducivilization , " Sreenadh " <sreesog wrote: Dear Kaul ji, It is cute know that you accept that MBh was written around BC 1400. ==> The MBh itslf is a work contemporaneous with the VJ, since both are following the same pattern i.e. no Mesha etc. rashis but nakshatras, though there may have been several additions/alterations in the original " shata-sahasra " grantha! <== Is it that " the text shouldn't contain any reference to Mesha etc " the acid test to determine, whether the text is ancient or not?!! That is cute! In that case you could also say that Neeti Sara of Brigu (some argue that it is created on 15th century - on what basis I don't know), and Ramayana of AD 3rd century (you know the proof), Yanjavaltkya smriti (I know that you won't agree - due to the simple reason that they mention week days!) as of BC 1400!! Kaul ji, don't be absurd! ==> > " Parashrya vachah sarojam amalam geetarth gandotkatam.... " . It is > in the Gita-Mahatmya <== How you are going to determine that in which period " Geeta-Mahatmya " was written?!! Geeta Mahatmya as ancient as Geeta or came after it? I think you could guess the answer. Take Brihadaranya Upanishad and read; you will find many parasharas parasharyas (more than 5 i think) in the Madhu Kanda. One more thing - Do you know the meaning of the word " Purana " ; Punar- nave; Rewritten or modified again and again!!! And you want to depend on such texts - to find the 'actual' history! Same is the case with Mahabharata, same is the case with Ramayana. Man! Most of these texts are created by that nasty Brahmin priests of Pushyamitra Sunga!! Why don't you see the fact? And still you are aginst the minor references available in many texts of Agama (Tantra) and Jain (like the Adbhuta sagara pointed to Iyangar ji) origin, want to save the wrong history and knowledge propagated by suga brahmins!! Look at the available archeological knowledge man! They can better speak about the truth and the history of India. Repeatedly saying `I am after truth won't help'; `Be after truth' – that may help. Hope this helps. Love, Sreenadh hinducivilization , " Avtar Krishen Kaul " <jyotirved@> wrote: > > Shri Sreenadh ji, > Namaskar! > The actual shloka is > " Parashrya vachah sarojam amalam geetarth gandotkatam.... " . It is > in the Gita-Mahatmya, Gita Press edition, with Hindi tralsnation! > As everybody knows, the Gita is a part of the MBh, compiled by the > famous Vedavyasa. As such, he is referred to as " Parasharya " in > this case! > The MBh itslf is a work contemporaneous with the VJ, since both are > following the same pattern i.e. no Mesha etc. rashis but nakshatras, > though there may have been several additions/alterations in the > original " shata-sahasra " grantha! So if the work (MBh) did exist in > around 14th century BCE, why could not its " author " exist then, and > as Parashara was the father of " Parashariya " , I do not know what you > mean by saying " you reached the point of accepting some Parashara > lived around 14th century BCE " . > Similarly, the Vishnu Purana is a work of Parashara, the father of > Vedavyasa, but how many additions and alterations it has undergone > can be anybody's guess! > Why are you silent about the fact that the VP talks of so called > Sayana Rashis, since I have given you the exact references viz. > Amsha 2 adhyaya eight! Is it because it goes against the grain of > the niradhara muladhara ayanamsha? > With regard, > AKK > > hinducivilization , " Sreenadh " <sreesog@> > wrote: > > > > Dear All, > > ==> > > > Parashara being a Gotra name, there could be > > > many Aachaaryas with the same name. > > <== > > Absolutely right! Take a look at Brihadarnyaka Upanishad. You > will > > see many Parasharas and Parasharyas mentioned there. Certainly this > > reflects the truth reflected in the above statement and the > ignorance > > present in the following statement. > > ==> > > > The famous Krishna Dvaipayana Vedavyasa is said to be the son > > > of " Parashara " and that is why he was known as " Parasharya " . > > <== > > Making 'Parashara' and 'Parasharya' the same! How absurd and what > an > > ignorance! > > Hope this helps; Kaul ji, straighten the approach. It is good to > know > > that at least you reached upto the point of accepting " some > Parashara > > lived around BC 1400, who at least followed the trend of VJ " . > That > > much good. > > Love, > > Sreenadh > > > > hinducivilization , " aareni " <aareni@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Dr.Yadu, > > > Thanks for your inputs. Parashara being a Gotra name, there > could be > > > many Aachaaryas with the same name. Whether the Astronomer > Parashara, > > > and Ayurvedic parashara were one and the same is not answerable > at > > > this stage. Again classification as 'Tantra' 'samhita' are > clearly > > > generic. AFAIK, Tantra describes 'some method for carrying out a > > > task'. Samhita is a collection of 'knowledge statements' > prevalent > > > during one's time. Loosely speaking if 'samhita' is knowledge, > > > tantra is technique or the practicals! Hence there will be > tantras > > > related to various subjects,(not just temple worship, but also > > > Abhicaara) including Ayurveda. There is a Vrkshaayurveda > attributed > > > to a Parashara! Having said the above I would not be surprised > at all > > > if useful astronomical information is contained in Ayurvedic > texts, > > > which I have not critically studied. One quick example that > comes to > > > my mind is the 'Soma herb' which in Ayurveda is described as > > > following Moon in waxing and waning. Irrespective of the > controversy > > > in identifying the herb today, Ayurveda Acharyas (scientists > among > > > the Vedic people) identified Vedic Soma with the celestial Moon, > the > > > terrestrial counterpart being the herb useful for their Tantras. > We > > > see here a cosmological principle first expounded in the Rigveda > > > being applied for common good on Earth. The interesting point is > the > > > same model is used by mystics for achieving Samadhi as detailed > > > in 'Tantric' texts such as Soundaryalahari. > > > RNI > > > hinducivilization , " ymoharir " <ymoharir@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > In Charak samhitaa based on suutra 1.31, one can say that > > > praashara > > > > was an Ayurvedacharya along with Agnivesha and Bhel. As far > as I > > > > recall paraashara tantra deals extensively with skin > disorders. > > > > Paraashara authored a book entitled " hastyaryuveda " . I had > > > > referenced that book almost 30 years ago when I was in India. > It > > > was > > > > intriguing for me to see rational scientific approach where he > > > coins > > > > the term " madhutvacyaa " (Meaning - sweet skin). As per the > current > > > > thinking. Manifestation of chronic acne relates to improper > > > > metabolism of sugars. Some doctors call it " Diabetes of Skin " . > > > > > > > > Some experts claim that " hastyaryuveda " is part of his > jyotiSya- > > > > samhitaa. > > > > > > > > Last time I was in India I tried to look for the book without > > > > success. Our personal copy was eating by termites. > > > > > > > > If I find something in my old notes I will certainly pass it > on to > > > > you. > > > > > > > > Kind Regards, > > > > > > > > Dr. Yadu > > > > > > > > hinducivilization , " aareni " <aareni@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Members: > > > > > You would recollect I posted a series of messages #9499 etc > in > > > > December > > > > > 2006 about my researches on the outlines of Presiddhantic > > > astronomy > > > > as > > > > > propounded by Paraashara. I would deeply appreciate if any > one > > > can > > > > > provide information about Paraasahra's astronomy other than > what > > > I > > > > had > > > > > posted. To briefly recollect, I had pointed out that the > prose > > > text > > > > > tradition of Paraashara quoted by Utpala (commentary on > Brihat > > > > samhita) > > > > > and Ballala sena (in Adbhuta saagara) was perhaps older than > > > > > Varahamihira by some 1000 years. I have already searched > > > wellknown > > > > > manuscript libraries on this issue. It is possible authors > other > > > > than > > > > > the above have also quoted Parashara about his astronomical > > > > concepts or > > > > > beliefs. I have seen texts associated with Paraashara like: > > > > > Krishiparrashara, Brhihat Pa-Hora shastram, Pa-smriti, > > > > Vrddhaparashara > > > > > etc. They do not contain astronomical info conforming to the > > > prose > > > > > style Parashara tantra/samhita. Hence the search is > continued > > > > further. > > > > > Any lead or information is welcome. > > > > > RN Iyengar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- End forwarded message --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 hinducivilization , " Sreenadh " <sreesog wrote: Dear Iyengar ji, You said: ==> To the best of my knowledge and belief it is only western indologists who have taken the trouble to understand the identities of our Rishis meticulously. <== In Rishi names given in Vedas point to the subject rather than names of individuals (with due reference); then how can that approach reflect truth, I wonder! Love, Sreenadh hinducivilization , " aareni " <aareni@> wrote: > > Dear Dr.Yadu, > The question you have raised is too weighty for me! With hesitation I > respond: > -- > Family names were not always Gotra names. This fact makes the > discussion difficult. However in the most ancient layers of Sanskrit > literature, the Gotra-ending names appear to be more in vogue. Hence > my statement about Paraas'ara being a Gotra/family name. You are > right that Paraas'aras are classified into six groups as per Matsya > PuraNa and Dharma Sutras: KrishNa, Gaura, AruNa, Niila, S'veta. > S'yaama. As per Matsya puraNa and Gotrapravaramanjari (following > Bodhaayana) they are all `tryaarsheya': [Vaasishtha-shaaktya- > paaraas'ryeti hotaa| paraas'aravat s'aktivat vasishthavat iti > adhvaryuh]. They all say the same three-rishi pravara, as per all > sutrakaaras including Apastamba and others. It is my understanding > that usually the last Rishi name of the Pravara is called the Gotra > or the person calls himself as belonging to that Gotra (If my > understanding is wrong I like to be corrected). Hence the Gotra name > should be `Paaraas'arya' that will be equal to `Vyaasa' in popular > understanding. My guess is this would have been the case in olden > times but the word has morphed into its simpler form `Paraas'ara' and > the family members are just called `Paraas'araaH' in many books. > Hence Nila-P, KrishNa-P etc are not Gotra names in a technical sense. > The test of this would be to find how the `Paraas'aras' are taught to > utter their `abhivaadana' at the Upanayana Sanskaara. If you are > aware of this as practised in different parts of the country I like > to know more on this point. > With the above of course I am straying away from the main topic, > namely the identity of `Paraas'ara'. To the best of my knowledge and > belief it is only western indologists who have taken the trouble to > understand the identities of our Rishis meticulously. That they did > not succeed in their efforts is another issue and does not reduce the > merits of their work. After Max Mueller, Pargiter and a few others > it is only SB Roy in his excellent book: Date of MB Battle (1976) who > has addressed this problem. (Have you read the book?) His King list > and Rishi list puts Paraasharii-putra to around 1100 BC. My > conclusion is the general `Paraas'araaH' (all the six colours) were > known to be influential before this period.The most famous KrishNa- > Paraas'ara was Veda Vyaasa, the Dvaipaayana of Matsya PuraaNa. > > RN Iyengar > > hinducivilization , " ymoharir " <ymoharir@> > wrote: > > > > hinducivilization , " aareni " <aareni@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Parashara being a Gotra name, there could be > > > many Aachaaryas with the same name. Whether the Astronomer > > Parashara, and Ayurvedic parashara were one and the same is not > > answerable at this stage. > > > > > > > > > > Namste Prof Iyengar: > > > > AFAIK - There are six praashara gotraa's - > > gaura-paraashara, niila-paraashara, kR^iShNa-paraashara, shveta- > > paraashara and syaama-paraashara. > > > > We all know that paraashara was son of " shakti " . However, I have > > always wondered about the vytapatti of the word paraashara. > > > > " paraashiirNasya sthavirasya jaj~ne " > > Meaning - Born from an old tired body. > > > > Any thoughts on this. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Dr. Yadu > > > --- End forwarded message --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 hinducivilization , " Sreenadh " <sreesog wrote: Dear Yadu ji, One of the meaning attributed to " Parashara' is " The Liberated one " . Love, Sreenadh hinducivilization , " ymoharir " <ymoharir@> wrote: > > hinducivilization , " aareni " <aareni@> wrote: > > > > > Parashara being a Gotra name, there could be > > many Aachaaryas with the same name. Whether the Astronomer > Parashara, and Ayurvedic parashara were one and the same is not > answerable at this stage. > > > > > > Namste Prof Iyengar: > > AFAIK - There are six praashara gotraa's - > gaura-paraashara, niila-paraashara, kR^iShNa-paraashara, shveta- > paraashara and syaama-paraashara. > > We all know that paraashara was son of " shakti " . However, I have > always wondered about the vytapatti of the word paraashara. > > " paraashiirNasya sthavirasya jaj~ne " > Meaning - Born from an old tired body. > > Any thoughts on this. > > Thanks, > > Dr. Yadu > --- End forwarded message --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 hinducivilization , " Sreenadh " <sreesog wrote: Dear All, ==> > Parashara being a Gotra name, there could be > many Aachaaryas with the same name. <== Absolutely right! Take a look at Brihadarnyaka Upanishad. You will see many Parasharas and Parasharyas mentioned there. Certainly this reflects the truth reflected in the above statement and the ignorance present in the following statement. ==> > The famous Krishna Dvaipayana Vedavyasa is said to be the son > of " Parashara " and that is why he was known as " Parasharya " . <== Making 'Parashara' and 'Parasharya' the same! How absurd and what an ignorance! Hope this helps; Kaul ji, straighten the approach. It is good to know that at least you reached upto the point of accepting " some Parashara lived around BC 1400, who at least followed the trend of VJ " . That much good. Love, Sreenadh hinducivilization , " aareni " <aareni@> wrote: > > Dear Dr.Yadu, > Thanks for your inputs. Parashara being a Gotra name, there could be > many Aachaaryas with the same name. Whether the Astronomer Parashara, > and Ayurvedic parashara were one and the same is not answerable at > this stage. Again classification as 'Tantra' 'samhita' are clearly > generic. AFAIK, Tantra describes 'some method for carrying out a > task'. Samhita is a collection of 'knowledge statements' prevalent > during one's time. Loosely speaking if 'samhita' is knowledge, > tantra is technique or the practicals! Hence there will be tantras > related to various subjects,(not just temple worship, but also > Abhicaara) including Ayurveda. There is a Vrkshaayurveda attributed > to a Parashara! Having said the above I would not be surprised at all > if useful astronomical information is contained in Ayurvedic texts, > which I have not critically studied. One quick example that comes to > my mind is the 'Soma herb' which in Ayurveda is described as > following Moon in waxing and waning. Irrespective of the controversy > in identifying the herb today, Ayurveda Acharyas (scientists among > the Vedic people) identified Vedic Soma with the celestial Moon, the > terrestrial counterpart being the herb useful for their Tantras. We > see here a cosmological principle first expounded in the Rigveda > being applied for common good on Earth. The interesting point is the > same model is used by mystics for achieving Samadhi as detailed > in 'Tantric' texts such as Soundaryalahari. > RNI > hinducivilization , " ymoharir " <ymoharir@> > wrote: > > > > > > In Charak samhitaa based on suutra 1.31, one can say that > praashara > > was an Ayurvedacharya along with Agnivesha and Bhel. As far as I > > recall paraashara tantra deals extensively with skin disorders. > > Paraashara authored a book entitled " hastyaryuveda " . I had > > referenced that book almost 30 years ago when I was in India. It > was > > intriguing for me to see rational scientific approach where he > coins > > the term " madhutvacyaa " (Meaning - sweet skin). As per the current > > thinking. Manifestation of chronic acne relates to improper > > metabolism of sugars. Some doctors call it " Diabetes of Skin " . > > > > Some experts claim that " hastyaryuveda " is part of his jyotiSya- > > samhitaa. > > > > Last time I was in India I tried to look for the book without > > success. Our personal copy was eating by termites. > > > > If I find something in my old notes I will certainly pass it on to > > you. > > > > Kind Regards, > > > > Dr. Yadu > > > > hinducivilization , " aareni " <aareni@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Members: > > > You would recollect I posted a series of messages #9499 etc in > > December > > > 2006 about my researches on the outlines of Presiddhantic > astronomy > > as > > > propounded by Paraashara. I would deeply appreciate if any one > can > > > provide information about Paraasahra's astronomy other than what > I > > had > > > posted. To briefly recollect, I had pointed out that the prose > text > > > tradition of Paraashara quoted by Utpala (commentary on Brihat > > samhita) > > > and Ballala sena (in Adbhuta saagara) was perhaps older than > > > Varahamihira by some 1000 years. I have already searched > wellknown > > > manuscript libraries on this issue. It is possible authors other > > than > > > the above have also quoted Parashara about his astronomical > > concepts or > > > beliefs. I have seen texts associated with Paraashara like: > > > Krishiparrashara, Brhihat Pa-Hora shastram, Pa-smriti, > > Vrddhaparashara > > > etc. They do not contain astronomical info conforming to the > prose > > > style Parashara tantra/samhita. Hence the search is continued > > further. > > > Any lead or information is welcome. > > > RN Iyengar > > > > > > --- End forwarded message --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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