Guest guest Posted September 18, 2007 Report Share Posted September 18, 2007 Sairaman goodmorning all membersre garding bhavathvam i have something to aythere aretwo divisions in astrology like a coin 2 sidesone that isdirectly connected to lagna like education sickness accidents etc we cannot a proxy for our thirst sleep for job education etc unless we go to job personally work there we cannot salarya vechicle money property may owned by any enjoyed by othersthe lagna sufferes any thing connected to 8and 12th houswe of lagna rest ofthe bhavas from the bhavams do not much affect the native as such for egif 10th lord in 5th it is 8th of 10th it is no away affects the native as the 5th 9th etc are verygood bhava for the native from the lagna whever lagna suffers the native suffers so connecting each bhava to other may not affect the lagnathipathi the native is not affected much education sleep enjoyment happniness the state of mind thirst hunger etc etc all the individual 3enjoys cannot be transfered to othersi have my 10th lord saturn in my 5th house i have much worrying many years back after experience i have come to conclusion it never affected me i have good job well respected by boss going well for past 34 years with some good changes for betterment well experienced in so many different fields in job i am so happy as the 5th house is houe of poorvapunya all my big bosses so intimately personally attached to me with good affection and love bhavath bhavam is a very good concept however while expecting results as such thank y all with my wishes and regardsrk dash <arkaydash wrote: Dear Sunil, Lalit Saab, Sreenadh and friends, My bit. Bhavat bhavam is an operator of a rule, thus has its ambit. And I expect we all know it. If we push it beyond the ambit, the outcome will be illogic. Lalit Saab is right. 4th being 12th from 5th should by bhavat bhavam logic cause attrition to/ take away from 5th. The same would go for 9th w.r.t. 10th. But nothing untoward happens to 10th if, for example, its lord goes to 9th. My personal experience, really personal, says nothing untoward happens. I have come across interpretation which expounds retirement from 9th. Yes, in the former pair, the maximus that can happen is children (or one of them) may live away from the ancestral home of the native. I know of at least one such chart. So, don't we know where bhavat bhavam holds, where it holds not? We do. But justificatory haste puts paid to sound derivation. Sreenaadh, in your file, have you also taken care of the goof that 7th is 4th from 3rd and about a page's wonderment as to how to reconcile self's mother and coborn's? 7th is 4th from 4th, ergo it reduplicates some of the significations of 4th. Mind you, not all of them. And the one that is not is '4th as mother'. Yes, 4th as asset, etc is mirrored by 7th. Bhavat bhavam in 7th (4th from 4th) cannot clash with turya (source) of 4th, with 4th as mother. 7th -- that which confronts you, the other that you interact with -- is PRIMARILY & IRREFRAGABLY spouse, partner and the like, so 'mother' reduplication drops off. We'll try to be lively but unerring. RK Sreenadh <sreesog > wrote: Dear Lalit ji,It is inside the folder named "Sreenadh". But I am yet to upload the updated file, I will try to do it by today evening.Love,Sreenadh , "litsol" <mishra.lalit wrote:>> Dear Srinadh.> > I didn't see this document in the file section, can u tell me in what > folder this pdf is there.> > regards,> Lalit.> > , "Sreenadh" > <sreesog@> wrote:> >> > Dear Lalit ji,> > It is applicable everywhere. I have already address this doubt in> > detail in my modified document on "Lagna lord in various > houses.pdf"> > file. So I will spare my energy - not trying to explain it here. I> > will try to upload the document possibly by today evening itself. > > Love,> > Sreenadh> > > > , "litsol"> > <mishra.lalit@> wrote:> > >> > > Sunil Ji,> > > > > > I had doubts, i m trying to put forth like this - > > > > > > Can we apply this logic to 4'th and 5'th houses, 4'th being 12'th > to > > > 5'th should denote some kind of loss to 5'th house, that i think > is > > > not true.> > > > > > Same is relation between 3'rd and 11'th, 3'rd is 6'th from 11'th, > > > 3'rd might be complementary to 11'th but not the contrary.> > > > > > Like if one does efforts, he will have gains.> > > > > > regards,> > > Lalit.> > > > > > , "sunil nair" > > > <astro_tellerkerala@> wrote:> > > >> > > > > > > > Hare rama krishna,> > > > > > > > dear lalit ,> > > > > > > > The upachayas are 3,6,10,11 and 6 is both > dustana > > > and> > > > upachaya,Upachaya houses are supposed to be houses of free will > u > > > can> > > > execute in this life concerned with that bhava and also known > as > > > houses> > > > of growth .That is why generaly says planets in upachaya gives > good> > > > results .> > > > > > > > Now let us take 2nd house and its upachaya houses.> > > > > > > > 4th house being 3rd from 2nd ( house of family or kutumba > where > > > one> > > > born or even this place is to see kula devata according to > prashna> > > > maaraga) ,7th house being 6th from 2nd house (house of> > > > marriage,partnership and even how we interact with out side > world > > > also> > > > madhana bhava and yatra bhava) ,and 11th house being 10th from > 2nd > > > house> > > > ( house of all kinf of gains and incomes ,frnds,and even our > elder> > > > siblings) and the 12th house ( the house of expenditure and > loses > > > and> > > > even our house of bed room pleasures ) ,> > > > > > > > Now if we apply logic we can see all this houses has a great > say in> > > > accumulation of money which is one of the characteristics of > 2nd > > > house.> > > > > > > > waiting comments from all scholars and members.> > > > > > > > regrds sunil nair.> > > > > > > > om shreem mahalaxmai namah.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "litsol"> > > > <mishra.lalit@> wrote:> > > > >> > > > > I agree to this point to some extent, It's not always a good > try > > > to> > > > > understand one house on the basis of how far it is from some > > > house,> > > > > there are only 12 houses, so each and every house comes n'th > from> > > > > 1'st to 12'th from remaining houses.> > > > >> > > > > Better way of understanding the houses is trying to > understand > > > basic> > > > > charactersitic like if upchaya say 3rd house, why 3'rd is an > > > upachaya> > > > > etc. and then learning trikonas like dharma trikona, Bhoga > trikona> > > > > etc.> > > > >> > > > > regards,> > > > > Lalit.> > > > >> > > > > , rk dash> > > > > arkaydash@ wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > Sreenadh,> > > > > >> > > > > > Yes, I think so. They probably are from the Meenaraj> > > > > Hora/Horapradeepam sources now that I get to see your PDF > file.> > > > > >> > > > > > What I meant when I said: "Examples will of course pour in. > But> > > > > we have to> > > > > > see where a particular result is flowing from -- from L1 in > a> > > > > > particular hse, or other planet/lords' configuration" is > this. > > > When> > > > > we take up example charts (and we haven't come to that as > yet), we> > > > > have to be careful not to confuse any particular experience > > > emanating> > > > > from other configurations/patterns and a bhavashraya phala of > a > > > house> > > > > lord. That is how we correctly validate the derivation in > slokas. > > > We> > > > > all know what drama the 'yogaja phala' can introduce in a > chart. > > > The> > > > > task is arduous; it requires rigours. I was doing some loud > > > thinking> > > > > on the methodological rigours staring at us, in advance.> > > > > >> > > > > > I went thru your PDF file. Umm, I would say some of your > logic> > > > > searches overshoot themselves. Take this one. The result of > wealth> > > > > with lagna lord in 4th house. You say, 4th is 3rd from 2nd, ie> > > > > upachaya from 2nd, which is how. Not very elegant as a > rationale. > > > The> > > > > reason, to my mind, is the wealth of siginfications the 4th > hse> > > > > holds -- house, vehicle and what have you. Now, applying your > > > well-> > > > > plucked Rule Four, which says lagna lord amplifies (the > goodness > > > of)> > > > > the house it goes to, the logic behind wealth is valid.> > > > > >> > > > > > I do like your Rule reminders. Commendable.> > > > > >> > > > > > Best,> > > > > > RK> > > > > >> > > > > > PS: I will take your hugs when we proceed on 'sustained > topics'> > > > > in a more organised fashion...> > > > > >> > > > > > Sreenadh sreesog@ wrote:> > > > > > Dear RK ji,> > > > > > Thanks. The derivations given are good - and looks as if > solely> > > > > > based on "Houses" alone.> > > > > > ==>> > > > > > Now, the rationale. Examples will of course pour in. But we > > > have to> > > > > > see where a particular result is flowing from -- from L1 in > a> > > > > > particular hse, or other planet/lords' configuration. You > agree?> > > > > > <==> > > > > > Apart from houses, I don't think anything such as > Planet/lords > > > etc> > > > > > comes in to play in the derivations you provided.> > > > > > *Lord are of Signs; Houses does not have any lords - and so > the> > > > > same> > > > > > is discarded.> > > > > > * Planets are not at all considered in house based > derivation - > > > and> > > > > > so the same is discarded.> > > > > >> > > > > > I ascertain, the derivations are solely based on houses, > and so> > > > > > should be the logic behind. Yah, RK ji, you can proceed with> > > > > > explaining the logic behid each of those derivations... > > > > > > Love and Hugs,> > > > > > Sreenadh> > > > > >> > > > > > , rk dash> > > > > > <arkaydash@> wrote:> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Shreenadh,> > > > > > > Here is the bhavashraya phala of L1 as found in the > compedium.> > > > > > There is an 'result' for the 5th hse, but I 'll take time > to > > > make> > > > > out> > > > > > what is meant.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > In 1st house> > > > > > > Healthy, long-lived, king(ly), strong, gain of land> > > > > > >> > > > > > > 2nd hse> > > > > > > Wealthy, engaged in right action, head of the locality, > life > > > of> > > > > > plenty, corpulent> > > > > > >> > > > > > > 3rd hse> > > > > > > Has good friends, religiosity, generosity; brave, strong> > > > > > >> > > > > > > 4th hse> > > > > > > King's favourite, lives life to the full (could also > > > mean 'very> > > > > > long-lived,' the expression being prachura-jivita), earns > by > > > right> > > > > > means, devoted to father, voracious> > > > > > >> > > > > > > 5th hse> > > > > > > Good children, engaged in good deeds, has humility, known > his > > > for> > > > > > good qualities> > > > > > >> > > > > > > 6th hse> > > > > > > Healthy, strong, gain of land, miserly, rich, subdues > > > enemies, on> > > > > > the side of good deeds> > > > > > >> > > > > > > 7th hse> > > > > > > Brilliant, good manners, cultured wife, spends himself > fast> > > > > > during coitus, good-looking> > > > > > >> > > > > > > 8th hse> > > > > > > Miserly, unreliable in financial matters, very long-> lived, > > > harsh> > > > > > in speech if the planet is a malefic, large physique if a > > > benefic> > > > > > >> > > > > > > 9th hse> > > > > > > Good people are his friends, good deeds, balanced (without> > > > > > extremes), cultured, known for his good deeds, brilliant> > > > > > >> > > > > > > 10th hse> > > > > > > Gains from ruler (state), learned, cultured, reverent > towards> > > > > > guru and mother, king, famous> > > > > > >> > > > > > > 11th hse> > > > > > > Long-lived, has progeny, spends himself fast during > coitus,> > > > > > powerful> > > > > > >> > > > > > > 12th hse> > > > > > > Harsh speech, very sharp mind, goes abroad, a free loader> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Now, the rationale. Examples will of couse pour in. But > we > > > have> > > > > > to see where a particular result is flowing from -- from L1 > in a> > > > > > particular hse, or other planet/lords' configuration. You > agree?> > > > > > >> > > > > > > RK> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote:> > > > > > > Dear RK ji,> > > > > > > ==>> > > > > > > I know of a compendium in vernacular which collates the > best> > > > > (best> > > > > > as> > > > > > > the compiler thought any particular aspect from a classic > to > > > be)> > > > > > > available, which goes into this aspect (lord going to > > > different> > > > > > houses)> > > > > > > <==> > > > > > > Can you provide the results derived/provided by that book> > > > > for "lagna> > > > > > > lord going to various houses"? That could be much > beneficial > > > to> > > > > our> > > > > > > current study - we will try to find the logic used behind > > > those> > > > > > > derivations, and accept or reject each of those > derivations; > > > as> > > > > > usual> > > > > > > based on conditions such as -> > > > > > > * logical or not> > > > > > > * Real life experience supports the same or not> > > > > > > It doesn't matter whether the source mention or the > Sanskrit> > > > > > original> > > > > > > is available or not - as long as the derivations are > logical, > > > and> > > > > > > reflect the actual experience.> > > > > > > > the 'material' looks very insightful stuff.> > > > > > > That is very good point - which itself I think indicate > that > > > it> > > > > > could> > > > > > > be valuable material.> > > > > > > Love,> > > > > > > Sreenadh> > > > > > >> > > > > > > , rk dash> > > > > > > <arkaydash@> wrote:> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > OK, Sree, that about sums up the scenario on one of the > 7-> > > fold> > > > > > > method. But the search, esp. for rishi hora source must > be > > > kept> > > > > on.> > > > > > I> > > > > > > know of a compedium in vernacular which collates the best > > > (best> > > > > as> > > > > > the> > > > > > > compiler thought any particular aspect from a classic to > be)> > > > > > > available, which goes into this aspect (lord going to > > > different> > > > > > > houses) but there is no source mention for the portion > nor is> > > > > there> > > > > > > the Sanskrit original for it unlike most other portions > in the> > > > > > > compendium. Nevertheless the 'material' looks very > insightful> > > > > stuff.> > > > > > > It is things like this that I had in mind. Let's see.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Best,> > > > > > > > RK> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote:> > > > > > > > Dear RK ji,> > > > > > > > ==>> > > > > > > > Now we have to agree on who next to Parasara we take on > > > board> > > > > for> > > > > > > > comparison. You have named two: Meenaraja Hora, and Hora> > > > > > Pradeepam.> > > > > > > > Who else? We don't have to go by the overall reputation > of > > > the> > > > > > text.> > > > > > > > We may narrow down our selection to the aspect of> > > > > interpretation> > > > > > in> > > > > > > > question in a treatise that may not otherwise be rated > very> > > > > high.> > > > > > What> > > > > > > > say?> > > > > > > > > So who else? I mean which other authority/-ies or > > > classics?> > > > > > > > <==> > > > > > > > This question is really difficult to answer. Apart > from> > > > > > Parasara> > > > > > > > (for whom various versions of the slokas are available > for > > > the> > > > > > same in> > > > > > > > almost all instances) Meena Raja Hora discusses it. The> > > > > statements> > > > > > > > from Meena Raja Hora is mentioned with utmost > importance in> > > > > Hora> > > > > > Ratna> > > > > > > > as well (at times they slightly variant versions of the > > > slokas> > > > > > > > available in current printed verion of Meena raja > hora). > > > Hora> > > > > > > > pradeepam is a text quoted with reverance by the auther > of > > > Hora> > > > > > Sara> > > > > > > > (i.e. Nrisimha Daivanjna), a well known scholar of 17th> > > > > century.> > > > > > Thus -> > > > > > > > Meenaraja hora gets double importance since supported > by > > > Hora> > > > > > Ratna.> > > > > > > > Hora Pradeepam gets double importance since supported > by > > > Hora> > > > > > Sara.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Some other later day texts MIGHT have discussed the > same at> > > > > times> > > > > > > > (though not extensively), but I am yet to make an > elaborate> > > > > > search for> > > > > > > > the same in texts like Sarvartha Chintamani, Jataka > > > Parijata,> > > > > > > > Saravali, Phaladeepika etc. One or two rudimentary > slokas> > > > > related> > > > > > to> > > > > > > > the same we may find in these texts as well. Some slokas> > > > > relevant> > > > > > to> > > > > > > > the may find a place in many ancient Rishi horas > (Whereever > > > I> > > > > find> > > > > > > > such a reference I will quote them for sure). But for > sure > > > none> > > > > > of the> > > > > > > > other texts (except BPHS, Meenaraja hora, Hora > Pradeepam)> > > > > > discusses> > > > > > > > this subject extensively in detail as per my current > > > knowledge> > > > > and> > > > > > > > understanding. As far as ancient texts (Rishi horas) are> > > > > > concerned it> > > > > > > > is possible that the slokas that discuss this subject> > > > > extensively> > > > > > are> > > > > > > > lost, even though they might have done the same (since > they > > > use> > > > > 7-> > > > > > fold> > > > > > > > method).> > > > > > > > Love,> > > > > > > > Sreenadh> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > , rk dash> > > > > > > > <arkaydash@> wrote:> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Yes, you are homing in on the "pure" point. That's > what > > > this> > > > > > > > particular aspect of interpretation of a chart is > about. > > > That's> > > > > > the> > > > > > > > way (the part-way) to go about it -- core task, > winkling the> > > > > > secrets> > > > > > > > out of a chart. Now we have to agree on who next to > > > Parasara we> > > > > > take> > > > > > > > on board for comparision. You have named two: Meenaraja > > > Hora,> > > > > and> > > > > > Hora> > > > > > > > Pradeepam. Who else? We don't have to go by the overall> > > > > > reputation of> > > > > > > > the text. We may narrow down our selection to the > aspect of> > > > > > > > interpretation in question in a treatise that may not > > > otherwise> > > > > be> > > > > > > > rated very high. What say?> > > > > > > > > So who else? I mean which other authority/-ies or > > > classics?> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Sotto Voce: I don't want us, you and me, to be > cynosures > > > of> > > > > (the> > > > > > > > galaxy of) our star-gazers in this firmament. Onlookers > all?> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > RK> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote:> > > > > > > > > Dear RK ji,> > > > > > > > > You are right - to the point. I agree. But as far as > LL > > > going> > > > > > to H-7> > > > > > > > > is concerned, the special point regarding ' if LL is a> > > > > malefic'> > > > > > is> > > > > > > > > mentioned in the sloka itself; there for we cannot > > > discount> > > > > it> > > > > > as far> > > > > > > > > as the prediction related to the same given in the > sloka > > > is> > > > > > concerned.> > > > > > > > > For other results regarding LL in H-7 (which we would > > > discuss> > > > > in> > > > > > > > > detail as this discussion progresses) I agree > absolutely > > > with> > > > > > your> > > > > > > > > logic and argument.> > > > > > > > > As far as LL in H-5 is concerned, I think there could > be > > > the> > > > > > point> > > > > > > > > I mentioned under consideration (for BPHS results) > even> > > > > though> > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > same is NOT mentioned in the sloka. But as you have > > > clearly> > > > > > stated,> > > > > > > > > the normal expected result for the same SHOULD > > > BE ''susuta'> > > > > > (good> > > > > > > > > child, or birth of children). Let us keep this doubt > open> > > > > till> > > > > > we> > > > > > > > > cross verify the results with the derivations given > in > > > other> > > > > > texts and> > > > > > > > > come to a logical conclusion/derivation.> > > > > > > > > We always have 2 options open to cross check the > results> > > > > > predicted> > > > > > > > > by BPHS in this context-> > > > > > > > > 1) Cross verify the results with the predictions > given in> > > > > other> > > > > > > > > texts (especially Meenaraja Hora & Hora Pradeepam)> > > > > > > > > 2) Compare the predicted results with actual results > > > observed.> > > > > > > > > But still, the base rule as you pointed out is -> > > > > > > > > ==>> > > > > > > > > > What we are concerned at this stage of the 'ruling' > is: > > > L-1> > > > > > goes> > > > > > > > > > H-5, L-1 goes to H-7 etc, other factors clearly > > > discounted.> > > > > > Clear?> > > > > > > > > <==> > > > > > > > > To state in other words, the base rule is -> > > > > > > > > "LL going to H-1, H-2, H-3 etc ONLY should be > considered, > > > and> > > > > > other> > > > > > > > > factors (such as LL being malefic/benefic, LL being > > > aspected> > > > > by> > > > > > > > > malefic/benefic etc) should be clearly discounted"> > > > > > > > > We will even touch this base rule with corollaries, > ONLY > > > WHEN> > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > special condition is mentioned in the sloka itself; > just > > > not> > > > > to> > > > > > > > > contaminate the result indicated by the sloka.> > > > > > > > > If this corollary is not there, I agree to your > statement> > > > > > completely.> > > > > > > > > Love,> > > > > > > > > Sreenadh> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > , rk > dash> > > > > > > > > <arkaydash@> wrote:> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh,> > > > > > > > > > I think we should keep out the factor of L1 being a > > > natural> > > > > > > > > malefic -- the logic you have used for those outcomes > of > > > L-1> > > > > > going to> > > > > > > > > 5th, 7th hse (death of first child, uninterested in > > > life/wife> > > > > > etc). If> > > > > > > > > we must, then we have to qualify the deduction, > > > saying "where> > > > > L-> > > > > > 5 (or> > > > > > > > > L-7) is a malefic or is afflicted".> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > What we are concerned at this stage of the 'ruling' > is: > > > L-1> > > > > > goes> > > > > > > > > H-5, L-1 goes to H-7 etc, other factors clearly > > > discounted.> > > > > > Clear?> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Let's carry on,> > > > > > > > > > RK> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote:> > > > > > > > > > Dear RK ji,> > > > > > > > > > Your concerns are right - important points > mentioned. > > > Let> > > > > us> > > > > > > > > > together try to find out the reasons based on our > logic.> > > > > > > > > > > When in 1st : Uncertain in decision> > > > > > > > > > Lagna lord in lagna gives the native all the good > > > qualities> > > > > > such as> > > > > > > > > > compassion, kindness, softness of mind, emotional > > > approach> > > > > > etc.> > > > > > > > > > Result? Uncertainty in decision. I think this > account > > > for> > > > > the> > > > > > > logical> > > > > > > > > > basis of the above derivation.> > > > > > > > > > > When in 2nd: Many wives> > > > > > > > > > That is just natural. 2nd and 11th house signify > second> > > > > > marriage.> > > > > > > > > > When the lagna lord comes in contact with any house > the> > > > > > native is> > > > > > > > > > sure to get the results related to that. Lagna lord > in > > > 2nd> > > > > > house> > > > > > > > > > makes the native beautiful, talkative, liked by > women > > > etc.> > > > > > Thus it> > > > > > > > > > turns out that it is natural to have many relations> > > > > (wives).> > > > > > It> > > > > > > > > > should be noted that for lagna lord in lagna, and > lagna> > > > > lord> > > > > > in 2nd> > > > > > > > > > house - 2 wives and many wives are derived - NOT as > a > > > bad> > > > > > > result, but> > > > > > > > > > as a good result; indicating that the native will > have > > > every> > > > > > > kind of> > > > > > > > > > luxury including women.> > > > > > > > > > > When in 3rd : Many kinds of wealth, 2 wives> > > > > > > > > > Valorous - thus many kinds of wealth; 3rd is a house> > > > > usually> > > > > > is of> > > > > > > > > > MIXED nature indicating mixed/various/many results. > > > That is> > > > > > why the> > > > > > > > > > derivation 'Many kinds of wealth'. 2nd from 2nd - > many> > > > > kinds> > > > > > of> > > > > > > > > > wealth - i think this is why you doubt that it > could be > > > due> > > > > to> > > > > > > bhavat> > > > > > > > > > bhavam. 2 wives - i have no idea supply in this > regard.> > > > > > > > > > > When in 4th: Lust> > > > > > > > > > No idea as of now.> > > > > > > > > > > When in 5th: Angry, loss of the 1st child> > > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th, any affliction to it can > affect> > > > > both> > > > > > 5th> > > > > > > > > > house and lagna equally - making a double impact. > That > > > is> > > > > why> > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > prediction 'loss of child'. Why 1st child - 5th > signify > > > 1st> > > > > > child> > > > > > > > > > more i doubt. Possibly here Parasara deviates a bit > from> > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > conventional prediction owing to the possibility > > > of 'double> > > > > > > impact' i> > > > > > > > > > think. The standard prediction should be (we will > > > verify)> > > > > > gain of> > > > > > > > > > child, as you mentioned. (But first the child > should be> > > > > born> > > > > > for it> > > > > > > > > > to perish - this may make both the derivations > > > consistent)> > > > > > > > > > > When in 7th: Uninterested in worldly life and wife> > > > > > > > > > This applies only if lagna lord is a malefic. > Therefore > > > it> > > > > is> > > > > > > > > > logically ok.> > > > > > > > > > > When in 12th: Good health> > > > > > > > > > No idea as of now.> > > > > > > > > > Love,> > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > , rk > dash> > > > > > > > > > <arkaydash@> wrote:> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Good start. I agree. First theoretical > consideration > > > then> > > > > > we test> > > > > > > > > > the rules against actual charts. Here's a small > > > beginning> > > > > of> > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > examination of lagna lord's bhavashraya phala in > BHPH. > > > I'll> > > > > go> > > > > > > about> > > > > > > > > > it by first picking out those phala (results) which > are > > > not> > > > > > self-> > > > > > > > > > evident. Here they are:> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > When in 1st> > > > > > > > > > > Uncertain in decision> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > When in 2nd> > > > > > > > > > > Many wives> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > When in 3rd> > > > > > > > > > > Many kinds of wealth (bhavat bhavam?), 2 wives> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > When in 4th> > > > > > > > > > > Lust> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > When in 5th> > > > > > > > > > > Angry, loss of the 1st child> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > When in 7th> > > > > > > > > > > Uninterested in worldly life and wife> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > When in 12th> > > > > > > > > > > Good health> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > These results are not easy to discern, given the > first> > > > > > factor> > > > > > > > > > (the linkage of the the self to the department > > > represented> > > > > by> > > > > > the> > > > > > > > > > house the lagna lord tenants) and the sweeping good > that> > > > > > lagna lord> > > > > > > > > > brings to the bhava it goes to. Take its placement > in > > > 5th.> > > > > > Why loss> > > > > > > > > > of child at all? Most other works declare, 'susuta',> > > > > meaning> > > > > > good> > > > > > > > > > progeny. I'll cite one such at a later stage for > all > > > house> > > > > of> > > > > > > tenancy> > > > > > > > > > as far as 1st lord is concerned.> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > One more thing I'd like to think aloud about. > Rule > > > says> > > > > > that any> > > > > > > > > > lord that goes to a dusthana will bring detriment > to the> > > > > > house the> > > > > > > > > > planet is lord of. Now how do we reconcile the L1 > in > > > 12th> > > > > > ensuring> > > > > > > > > > good health? Will it take care of the attrition of > body> > > > > (12th> > > > > > from> > > > > > > > > > 1st hse, ie body) without itself being subject to> > > > > detriment?> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > RK> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > Dear All,> > > > > > > > > > > The primary derivations for Lagna lord in various > > > houses> > > > > as> > > > > > per> > > > > > > > > > BPHS is given below. I invite all to start a > discussion > > > on> > > > > the> > > > > > > same.> > > > > > > > > > > =================================> > > > > > > > > > > As per BPHS, for Lagna lord in -> > > > > > > > > > > Lagna: healthy body, courageous, uncertain in > > > decisions,> > > > > 2> > > > > > wives> > > > > > > > > > > 2nd house: knowledgeable, good earnings, > happiness, > > > good> > > > > > habits,> > > > > > > > > > righteous, many wives, good qualities.> > > > > > > > > > > 3rd house: valorous like a lion, all kinds of > wealth, > > > 2> > > > > > wives,> > > > > > > > > > intelligent.> > > > > > > > > > > 4th house: love and affection from healthy mother > with> > > > > good> > > > > > > > > > longevity, many brothers/sisters, lust, beauty and > good> > > > > > qualities.> > > > > > > > > > > 5th house: angry, moderate happiness from > children, > > > loss> > > > > of> > > > > > first> > > > > > > > > > born (child), admired by government and authorities.> > > > > > > > > > > 6th house: (especially if aspected by malefics) > > > trouble> > > > > > from> > > > > > > > > > enemies, bad health.> > > > > > > > > > > 7th house: (especially if Lagna lord is a > malefic) his> > > > > wife> > > > > > will> > > > > > > > > > die early (or married life will not go long), he > will> > > > > become> > > > > > > > > > uninterested in worldly life and wife, will be > detached> > > > > > towards his> > > > > > > > > > native land and wander/visit many places, It is > possible> > > > > that> > > > > > he> > > > > > > > > > won't be much wealthy (he would be a poor man) or > also > > > that> > > > > he> > > > > > > would> > > > > > > > > > be a very wealthy person like a king.> > > > > > > > > > > 8th house: master of some branch of knowledge, > > > troubled> > > > > by> > > > > > > > > > diseases, interested in others wives, will be > > > interested in> > > > > > all> > > > > > > kinds> > > > > > > > > > of games such as cards, chess, dice, lottery and so > on,> > > > > very> > > > > > much> > > > > > > > > > angry.> > > > > > > > > > > 9th house: lucky, loved by the public, devotee of > > > Vishnu,> > > > > > > master of> > > > > > > > > > words and oratory, will have good wealth wife and > > > children.> > > > > > > > > > > 10th house: admired by government and people in > power> > > > > (the> > > > > > native> > > > > > > > > > will have a good job), he would be a government > servant,> > > > > very> > > > > > much> > > > > > > > > > popular.> > > > > > > > > > > 11th house: much income from many sources, good> > > > > popularity> > > > > > > > > > (popularity due to good deeds, celebrity), good > > > qualities,> > > > > > many> > > > > > > wives.> > > > > > > > > > > 12th house: good health, extravagant without > reason,> > > > > angry> > > > > > > > > > (especially if not benefics are present in 12th and > if > > > no> > > > > > benefic> > > > > > > > > > aspects 12th)> > > > > > > > > > > =================================> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Love,> > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > , > manju> > > > > > chawla> > > > > > > > > > <manjuch2001@> wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Thank You Sreenadhji> > > > > > > > > > > > we would learn this subject in this way.You are > > > really> > > > > > > helping us> > > > > > > > > > God bless you> > > > > > > > > > > > regards> > > > > > > > > > > > manju> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh sreesog@ wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > > Dear All,> > > > > > > > > > > > Let us start a new discussion on the > subject "What> > > > > should> > > > > > be> > > > > > > > > > > > predicted for Lagna lord in Various houses?" -> let > > > the> > > > > > > discussion> > > > > > > > > > go> > > > > > > > > > > > first and then comparison of it with actual > results.> > > > > > > > > > > > Love,> > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > "I am careful not to confuse excellence with> > > > > > > > > > perfection,Excellence-I can reach for,Perfection is > > > God's> > > > > > > business---> > > > > > > > > > Michael J.Fox> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ready for the edge of your seat? 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Guest guest Posted September 18, 2007 Report Share Posted September 18, 2007 Dear Sairam ji, Good Morning. You are right. Houses (Bhava) - are directly related to Native - Prime significance. House to House - are directly related to House and indirectly to native - Secondary significance; Details of items indicated by Primary significance. Eg _1: 4th : Mother. Houses from 4th house: Details of Mother. Eg _2: 4th : Native House. Houses from 4th house: Details of Native House. Eg _3: 2th : Face. Houses from 2th house: Details of Face. Yes, 'Bhavat Bhavam' is one of the straight forward, well known, fundamental rule used for result derivation. Love, Sreenadh , sairam nat <sairaman53 wrote: > > Sairaman > > goodmorning all members > > re garding bhavathvam i have something to ay > > > there aretwo divisions in astrology like a coin 2 sides > > one that isdirectly connected to lagna like education sickness accidents etc > > we cannot a proxy for our thirst sleep for job education etc unless we go to job personally work there we cannot salary > > a vechicle money property may owned by any enjoyed by others > > the lagna sufferes any thing connected to 8and 12th houswe of lagna rest ofthe bhavas from the bhavams do not much affect the native as such for eg > > if 10th lord in 5th it is 8th of 10th it is no away affects the native as the 5th 9th etc are verygood bhava for the native from the lagna whever lagna suffers the native suffers > > so connecting each bhava to other may not affect the lagnathipathi the native is not affected much > > education sleep enjoyment happniness the state of mind thirst hunger etc etc all the individual 3enjoys cannot be transfered to others > > i have my 10th lord saturn in my 5th house i have much worrying many years back after experience i have come to conclusion it never affected me i have good job well respected by boss going well for past 34 years with some good changes for betterment well experienced in so many different fields in job i am so happy as the 5th house is houe of poorvapunya all my big bosses so intimately personally attached to me with good affection and love > > bhavath bhavam is a very good concept however while expecting results as such > > > > thank y all with my wishes and regards > > rk dash <arkaydash wrote: > Dear Sunil, Lalit Saab, Sreenadh and friends, > > My bit. Bhavat bhavam is an operator of a rule, thus has its ambit. And I expect we all know it. If we push it beyond the ambit, the outcome will be illogic. Lalit Saab is right. 4th being 12th from 5th should by bhavat bhavam logic cause attrition to/ take away from 5th. The same would go for 9th w.r.t. 10th. But nothing untoward happens to 10th if, for example, its lord goes to 9th. My personal experience, really personal, says nothing untoward happens. I have come across interpretation which expounds retirement from 9th. Yes, in the former pair, the maximus that can happen is children (or one of them) may live away from the ancestral home of the native. I know of at least one such chart. > > So, don't we know where bhavat bhavam holds, where it holds not? We do. But justificatory haste puts paid to sound derivation. > > Sreenaadh, in your file, have you also taken care of the goof that 7th is 4th from 3rd and about a page's wonderment as to how to reconcile self's mother and coborn's? 7th is 4th from 4th, ergo it reduplicates some of the significations of 4th. Mind you, not all of them. And the one that is not is '4th as mother'. Yes, 4th as asset, etc is mirrored by 7th. Bhavat bhavam in 7th (4th from 4th) cannot clash with turya (source) of 4th, with 4th as mother. 7th -- that which confronts you, the other that you interact with -- is PRIMARILY & IRREFRAGABLY spouse, partner and the like, so 'mother' reduplication drops off. > > We'll try to be lively but unerring. > RK > > > Sreenadh <sreesog wrote: > Dear Lalit ji, > It is inside the folder named " Sreenadh " . But I am yet to upload the > updated file, I will try to do it by today evening. > Love, > Sreenadh > > , " litsol " > <mishra.lalit@> wrote: > > > > Dear Srinadh. > > > > I didn't see this document in the file section, can u tell me in > what > > folder this pdf is there. > > > > regards, > > Lalit. > > > > , " Sreenadh " > > <sreesog@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Lalit ji, > > > It is applicable everywhere. I have already address this doubt > in > > > detail in my modified document on " Lagna lord in various > > houses.pdf " > > > file. So I will spare my energy - not trying to explain it here. I > > > will try to upload the document possibly by today evening > itself. > > > Love, > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > , " litsol " > > > <mishra.lalit@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Sunil Ji, > > > > > > > > I had doubts, i m trying to put forth like this - > > > > > > > > Can we apply this logic to 4'th and 5'th houses, 4'th being > 12'th > > to > > > > 5'th should denote some kind of loss to 5'th house, that i > think > > is > > > > not true. > > > > > > > > Same is relation between 3'rd and 11'th, 3'rd is 6'th from > 11'th, > > > > 3'rd might be complementary to 11'th but not the contrary. > > > > > > > > Like if one does efforts, he will have gains. > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > Lalit. > > > > > > > > , " sunil nair " > > > > <astro_tellerkerala@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hare rama krishna, > > > > > > > > > > dear lalit , > > > > > > > > > > The upachayas are 3,6,10,11 and 6 is both > > dustana > > > > and > > > > > upachaya,Upachaya houses are supposed to be houses of free > will > > u > > > > can > > > > > execute in this life concerned with that bhava and also > known > > as > > > > houses > > > > > of growth .That is why generaly says planets in upachaya > gives > > good > > > > > results . > > > > > > > > > > Now let us take 2nd house and its upachaya houses. > > > > > > > > > > 4th house being 3rd from 2nd ( house of family or kutumba > > where > > > > one > > > > > born or even this place is to see kula devata according to > > prashna > > > > > maaraga) ,7th house being 6th from 2nd house (house of > > > > > marriage,partnership and even how we interact with out side > > world > > > > also > > > > > madhana bhava and yatra bhava) ,and 11th house being 10th > from > > 2nd > > > > house > > > > > ( house of all kinf of gains and incomes ,frnds,and even our > > elder > > > > > siblings) and the 12th house ( the house of expenditure and > > loses > > > > and > > > > > even our house of bed room pleasures ) , > > > > > > > > > > Now if we apply logic we can see all this houses has a great > > say in > > > > > accumulation of money which is one of the characteristics of > > 2nd > > > > house. > > > > > > > > > > waiting comments from all scholars and members. > > > > > > > > > > regrds sunil nair. > > > > > > > > > > om shreem mahalaxmai namah. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " litsol " > > > > > <mishra.lalit@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree to this point to some extent, It's not always a > good > > try > > > > to > > > > > > understand one house on the basis of how far it is from > some > > > > house, > > > > > > there are only 12 houses, so each and every house comes > n'th > > from > > > > > > 1'st to 12'th from remaining houses. > > > > > > > > > > > > Better way of understanding the houses is trying to > > understand > > > > basic > > > > > > charactersitic like if upchaya say 3rd house, why 3'rd is > an > > > > upachaya > > > > > > etc. and then learning trikonas like dharma trikona, Bhoga > > trikona > > > > > > etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > Lalit. > > > > > > > > > > > > , rk dash > > > > > > arkaydash@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, I think so. They probably are from the Meenaraj > > > > > > Hora/Horapradeepam sources now that I get to see your PDF > > file. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What I meant when I said: " Examples will of course pour > in. > > But > > > > > > we have to > > > > > > > see where a particular result is flowing from -- from L1 > in > > a > > > > > > > particular hse, or other planet/lords' configuration " is > > this. > > > > When > > > > > > we take up example charts (and we haven't come to that as > > yet), we > > > > > > have to be careful not to confuse any particular experience > > > > emanating > > > > > > from other configurations/patterns and a bhavashraya phala > of > > a > > > > house > > > > > > lord. That is how we correctly validate the derivation in > > slokas. > > > > We > > > > > > all know what drama the 'yogaja phala' can introduce in a > > chart. > > > > The > > > > > > task is arduous; it requires rigours. I was doing some loud > > > > thinking > > > > > > on the methodological rigours staring at us, in advance. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I went thru your PDF file. Umm, I would say some of your > > logic > > > > > > searches overshoot themselves. Take this one. The result of > > wealth > > > > > > with lagna lord in 4th house. You say, 4th is 3rd from 2nd, > ie > > > > > > upachaya from 2nd, which is how. Not very elegant as a > > rationale. > > > > The > > > > > > reason, to my mind, is the wealth of siginfications the 4th > > hse > > > > > > holds -- house, vehicle and what have you. Now, applying > your > > > > well- > > > > > > plucked Rule Four, which says lagna lord amplifies (the > > goodness > > > > of) > > > > > > the house it goes to, the logic behind wealth is valid. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I do like your Rule reminders. Commendable. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > > > > RK > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PS: I will take your hugs when we proceed on 'sustained > > topics' > > > > > > in a more organised fashion... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh sreesog@ wrote: > > > > > > > Dear RK ji, > > > > > > > Thanks. The derivations given are good - and looks as if > > solely > > > > > > > based on " Houses " alone. > > > > > > > ==> > > > > > > > Now, the rationale. Examples will of course pour in. But > we > > > > have to > > > > > > > see where a particular result is flowing from -- from L1 > in > > a > > > > > > > particular hse, or other planet/lords' configuration. You > > agree? > > > > > > > <== > > > > > > > Apart from houses, I don't think anything such as > > Planet/lords > > > > etc > > > > > > > comes in to play in the derivations you provided. > > > > > > > *Lord are of Signs; Houses does not have any lords - and > so > > the > > > > > > same > > > > > > > is discarded. > > > > > > > * Planets are not at all considered in house based > > derivation - > > > > and > > > > > > > so the same is discarded. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I ascertain, the derivations are solely based on houses, > > and so > > > > > > > should be the logic behind. Yah, RK ji, you can proceed > with > > > > > > > explaining the logic behid each of those derivations... > > > > > > > Love and Hugs, > > > > > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , rk dash > > > > > > > <arkaydash@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shreenadh, > > > > > > > > Here is the bhavashraya phala of L1 as found in the > > compedium. > > > > > > > There is an 'result' for the 5th hse, but I 'll take time > > to > > > > make > > > > > > out > > > > > > > what is meant. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In 1st house > > > > > > > > Healthy, long-lived, king(ly), strong, gain of land > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2nd hse > > > > > > > > Wealthy, engaged in right action, head of the locality, > > life > > > > of > > > > > > > plenty, corpulent > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3rd hse > > > > > > > > Has good friends, religiosity, generosity; brave, strong > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4th hse > > > > > > > > King's favourite, lives life to the full (could also > > > > mean 'very > > > > > > > long-lived,' the expression being prachura-jivita), earns > > by > > > > right > > > > > > > means, devoted to father, voracious > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5th hse > > > > > > > > Good children, engaged in good deeds, has humility, > known > > his > > > > for > > > > > > > good qualities > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6th hse > > > > > > > > Healthy, strong, gain of land, miserly, rich, subdues > > > > enemies, on > > > > > > > the side of good deeds > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 7th hse > > > > > > > > Brilliant, good manners, cultured wife, spends himself > > fast > > > > > > > during coitus, good-looking > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 8th hse > > > > > > > > Miserly, unreliable in financial matters, very long- > > lived, > > > > harsh > > > > > > > in speech if the planet is a malefic, large physique if a > > > > benefic > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 9th hse > > > > > > > > Good people are his friends, good deeds, balanced > (without > > > > > > > extremes), cultured, known for his good deeds, brilliant > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th hse > > > > > > > > Gains from ruler (state), learned, cultured, reverent > > towards > > > > > > > guru and mother, king, famous > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 11th hse > > > > > > > > Long-lived, has progeny, spends himself fast during > > coitus, > > > > > > > powerful > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 12th hse > > > > > > > > Harsh speech, very sharp mind, goes abroad, a free > loader > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now, the rationale. Examples will of couse pour in. But > > we > > > > have > > > > > > > to see where a particular result is flowing from -- from > L1 > > in a > > > > > > > particular hse, or other planet/lords' configuration. You > > agree? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RK > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear RK ji, > > > > > > > > ==> > > > > > > > > I know of a compendium in vernacular which collates the > > best > > > > > > (best > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > the compiler thought any particular aspect from a > classic > > to > > > > be) > > > > > > > > available, which goes into this aspect (lord going to > > > > different > > > > > > > houses) > > > > > > > > <== > > > > > > > > Can you provide the results derived/provided by that > book > > > > > > for " lagna > > > > > > > > lord going to various houses " ? That could be much > > beneficial > > > > to > > > > > > our > > > > > > > > current study - we will try to find the logic used > behind > > > > those > > > > > > > > derivations, and accept or reject each of those > > derivations; > > > > as > > > > > > > usual > > > > > > > > based on conditions such as - > > > > > > > > * logical or not > > > > > > > > * Real life experience supports the same or not > > > > > > > > It doesn't matter whether the source mention or the > > Sanskrit > > > > > > > original > > > > > > > > is available or not - as long as the derivations are > > logical, > > > > and > > > > > > > > reflect the actual experience. > > > > > > > > > the 'material' looks very insightful stuff. > > > > > > > > That is very good point - which itself I think indicate > > that > > > > it > > > > > > > could > > > > > > > > be valuable material. > > > > > > > > Love, > > > > > > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , rk dash > > > > > > > > <arkaydash@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK, Sree, that about sums up the scenario on one of > the > > 7- > > > > fold > > > > > > > > method. But the search, esp. for rishi hora source must > > be > > > > kept > > > > > > on. > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > know of a compedium in vernacular which collates the > best > > > > (best > > > > > > as > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > compiler thought any particular aspect from a classic > to > > be) > > > > > > > > available, which goes into this aspect (lord going to > > > > different > > > > > > > > houses) but there is no source mention for the portion > > nor is > > > > > > there > > > > > > > > the Sanskrit original for it unlike most other portions > > in the > > > > > > > > compendium. Nevertheless the 'material' looks very > > insightful > > > > > > stuff. > > > > > > > > It is things like this that I had in mind. Let's see. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > > > > > > RK > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Dear RK ji, > > > > > > > > > ==> > > > > > > > > > Now we have to agree on who next to Parasara we take > on > > > > board > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > comparison. You have named two: Meenaraja Hora, and > Hora > > > > > > > Pradeepam. > > > > > > > > > Who else? We don't have to go by the overall > reputation > > of > > > > the > > > > > > > text. > > > > > > > > > We may narrow down our selection to the aspect of > > > > > > interpretation > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > question in a treatise that may not otherwise be > rated > > very > > > > > > high. > > > > > > > What > > > > > > > > > say? > > > > > > > > > > So who else? I mean which other authority/-ies or > > > > classics? > > > > > > > > > <== > > > > > > > > > This question is really difficult to answer. Apart > > from > > > > > > > Parasara > > > > > > > > > (for whom various versions of the slokas are > available > > for > > > > the > > > > > > > same in > > > > > > > > > almost all instances) Meena Raja Hora discusses it. > The > > > > > > statements > > > > > > > > > from Meena Raja Hora is mentioned with utmost > > importance in > > > > > > Hora > > > > > > > Ratna > > > > > > > > > as well (at times they slightly variant versions of > the > > > > slokas > > > > > > > > > available in current printed verion of Meena raja > > hora). > > > > Hora > > > > > > > > > pradeepam is a text quoted with reverance by the > auther > > of > > > > Hora > > > > > > > Sara > > > > > > > > > (i.e. Nrisimha Daivanjna), a well known scholar of > 17th > > > > > > century. > > > > > > > Thus - > > > > > > > > > Meenaraja hora gets double importance since supported > > by > > > > Hora > > > > > > > Ratna. > > > > > > > > > Hora Pradeepam gets double importance since supported > > by > > > > Hora > > > > > > > Sara. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some other later day texts MIGHT have discussed the > > same at > > > > > > times > > > > > > > > > (though not extensively), but I am yet to make an > > elaborate > > > > > > > search for > > > > > > > > > the same in texts like Sarvartha Chintamani, Jataka > > > > Parijata, > > > > > > > > > Saravali, Phaladeepika etc. One or two rudimentary > > slokas > > > > > > related > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > the same we may find in these texts as well. Some > slokas > > > > > > relevant > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > the may find a place in many ancient Rishi horas > > (Whereever > > > > I > > > > > > find > > > > > > > > > such a reference I will quote them for sure). But for > > sure > > > > none > > > > > > > of the > > > > > > > > > other texts (except BPHS, Meenaraja hora, Hora > > Pradeepam) > > > > > > > discusses > > > > > > > > > this subject extensively in detail as per my current > > > > knowledge > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > understanding. As far as ancient texts (Rishi horas) > are > > > > > > > concerned it > > > > > > > > > is possible that the slokas that discuss this subject > > > > > > extensively > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > lost, even though they might have done the same > (since > > they > > > > use > > > > > > 7- > > > > > > > fold > > > > > > > > > method). > > > > > > > > > Love, > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , rk > dash > > > > > > > > > <arkaydash@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, you are homing in on the " pure " point. That's > > what > > > > this > > > > > > > > > particular aspect of interpretation of a chart is > > about. > > > > That's > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > way (the part-way) to go about it -- core task, > > winkling the > > > > > > > secrets > > > > > > > > > out of a chart. Now we have to agree on who next to > > > > Parasara we > > > > > > > take > > > > > > > > > on board for comparision. You have named two: > Meenaraja > > > > Hora, > > > > > > and > > > > > > > Hora > > > > > > > > > Pradeepam. Who else? We don't have to go by the > overall > > > > > > > reputation of > > > > > > > > > the text. We may narrow down our selection to the > > aspect of > > > > > > > > > interpretation in question in a treatise that may not > > > > otherwise > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > rated very high. What say? > > > > > > > > > > So who else? I mean which other authority/-ies or > > > > classics? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sotto Voce: I don't want us, you and me, to be > > cynosures > > > > of > > > > > > (the > > > > > > > > > galaxy of) our star-gazers in this firmament. > Onlookers > > all? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RK > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear RK ji, > > > > > > > > > > You are right - to the point. I agree. But as far > as > > LL > > > > going > > > > > > > to H-7 > > > > > > > > > > is concerned, the special point regarding ' if LL > is a > > > > > > malefic' > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > mentioned in the sloka itself; there for we cannot > > > > discount > > > > > > it > > > > > > > as far > > > > > > > > > > as the prediction related to the same given in the > > sloka > > > > is > > > > > > > concerned. > > > > > > > > > > For other results regarding LL in H-7 (which we > would > > > > discuss > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > detail as this discussion progresses) I agree > > absolutely > > > > with > > > > > > > your > > > > > > > > > > logic and argument. > > > > > > > > > > As far as LL in H-5 is concerned, I think there > could > > be > > > > the > > > > > > > point > > > > > > > > > > I mentioned under consideration (for BPHS results) > > even > > > > > > though > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > same is NOT mentioned in the sloka. But as you have > > > > clearly > > > > > > > stated, > > > > > > > > > > the normal expected result for the same SHOULD > > > > BE ''susuta' > > > > > > > (good > > > > > > > > > > child, or birth of children). Let us keep this > doubt > > open > > > > > > till > > > > > > > we > > > > > > > > > > cross verify the results with the derivations given > > in > > > > other > > > > > > > texts and > > > > > > > > > > come to a logical conclusion/derivation. > > > > > > > > > > We always have 2 options open to cross check the > > results > > > > > > > predicted > > > > > > > > > > by BPHS in this context- > > > > > > > > > > 1) Cross verify the results with the predictions > > given in > > > > > > other > > > > > > > > > > texts (especially Meenaraja Hora & Hora Pradeepam) > > > > > > > > > > 2) Compare the predicted results with actual > results > > > > observed. > > > > > > > > > > But still, the base rule as you pointed out is - > > > > > > > > > > ==> > > > > > > > > > > > What we are concerned at this stage of > the 'ruling' > > is: > > > > L-1 > > > > > > > goes > > > > > > > > > > > H-5, L-1 goes to H-7 etc, other factors clearly > > > > discounted. > > > > > > > Clear? > > > > > > > > > > <== > > > > > > > > > > To state in other words, the base rule is - > > > > > > > > > > " LL going to H-1, H-2, H-3 etc ONLY should be > > considered, > > > > and > > > > > > > other > > > > > > > > > > factors (such as LL being malefic/benefic, LL being > > > > aspected > > > > > > by > > > > > > > > > > malefic/benefic etc) should be clearly discounted " > > > > > > > > > > We will even touch this base rule with corollaries, > > ONLY > > > > WHEN > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > special condition is mentioned in the sloka itself; > > just > > > > not > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > contaminate the result indicated by the sloka. > > > > > > > > > > If this corollary is not there, I agree to your > > statement > > > > > > > completely. > > > > > > > > > > Love, > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , rk > > dash > > > > > > > > > > <arkaydash@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh, > > > > > > > > > > > I think we should keep out the factor of L1 being > a > > > > natural > > > > > > > > > > malefic -- the logic you have used for those > outcomes > > of > > > > L-1 > > > > > > > going to > > > > > > > > > > 5th, 7th hse (death of first child, uninterested in > > > > life/wife > > > > > > > etc). If > > > > > > > > > > we must, then we have to qualify the deduction, > > > > saying " where > > > > > > L- > > > > > > > 5 (or > > > > > > > > > > L-7) is a malefic or is afflicted " . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What we are concerned at this stage of > the 'ruling' > > is: > > > > L-1 > > > > > > > goes > > > > > > > > > > H-5, L-1 goes to H-7 etc, other factors clearly > > > > discounted. > > > > > > > Clear? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let's carry on, > > > > > > > > > > > RK > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Dear RK ji, > > > > > > > > > > > Your concerns are right - important points > > mentioned. > > > > Let > > > > > > us > > > > > > > > > > > together try to find out the reasons based on our > > logic. > > > > > > > > > > > > When in 1st : Uncertain in decision > > > > > > > > > > > Lagna lord in lagna gives the native all the good > > > > qualities > > > > > > > such as > > > > > > > > > > > compassion, kindness, softness of mind, emotional > > > > approach > > > > > > > etc. > > > > > > > > > > > Result? Uncertainty in decision. I think this > > account > > > > for > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > logical > > > > > > > > > > > basis of the above derivation. > > > > > > > > > > > > When in 2nd: Many wives > > > > > > > > > > > That is just natural. 2nd and 11th house signify > > second > > > > > > > marriage. > > > > > > > > > > > When the lagna lord comes in contact with any > house > > the > > > > > > > native is > > > > > > > > > > > sure to get the results related to that. Lagna > lord > > in > > > > 2nd > > > > > > > house > > > > > > > > > > > makes the native beautiful, talkative, liked by > > women > > > > etc. > > > > > > > Thus it > > > > > > > > > > > turns out that it is natural to have many > relations > > > > > > (wives). > > > > > > > It > > > > > > > > > > > should be noted that for lagna lord in lagna, and > > lagna > > > > > > lord > > > > > > > in 2nd > > > > > > > > > > > house - 2 wives and many wives are derived - NOT > as > > a > > > > bad > > > > > > > > result, but > > > > > > > > > > > as a good result; indicating that the native will > > have > > > > every > > > > > > > > kind of > > > > > > > > > > > luxury including women. > > > > > > > > > > > > When in 3rd : Many kinds of wealth, 2 wives > > > > > > > > > > > Valorous - thus many kinds of wealth; 3rd is a > house > > > > > > usually > > > > > > > is of > > > > > > > > > > > MIXED nature indicating mixed/various/many > results. > > > > That is > > > > > > > why the > > > > > > > > > > > derivation 'Many kinds of wealth'. 2nd from 2nd - > > many > > > > > > kinds > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > wealth - i think this is why you doubt that it > > could be > > > > due > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > bhavat > > > > > > > > > > > bhavam. 2 wives - i have no idea supply in this > > regard. > > > > > > > > > > > > When in 4th: Lust > > > > > > > > > > > No idea as of now. > > > > > > > > > > > > When in 5th: Angry, loss of the 1st child > > > > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th, any affliction to it can > > affect > > > > > > both > > > > > > > 5th > > > > > > > > > > > house and lagna equally - making a double impact. > > That > > > > is > > > > > > why > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > prediction 'loss of child'. Why 1st child - 5th > > signify > > > > 1st > > > > > > > child > > > > > > > > > > > more i doubt. Possibly here Parasara deviates a > bit > > from > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > conventional prediction owing to the possibility > > > > of 'double > > > > > > > > impact' i > > > > > > > > > > > think. The standard prediction should be (we will > > > > verify) > > > > > > > gain of > > > > > > > > > > > child, as you mentioned. (But first the child > > should be > > > > > > born > > > > > > > for it > > > > > > > > > > > to perish - this may make both the derivations > > > > consistent) > > > > > > > > > > > > When in 7th: Uninterested in worldly life and > wife > > > > > > > > > > > This applies only if lagna lord is a malefic. > > Therefore > > > > it > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > logically ok. > > > > > > > > > > > > When in 12th: Good health > > > > > > > > > > > No idea as of now. > > > > > > > > > > > Love, > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In , > rk > > dash > > > > > > > > > > > <arkaydash@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Good start. I agree. First theoretical > > consideration > > > > then > > > > > > > we test > > > > > > > > > > > the rules against actual charts. Here's a small > > > > beginning > > > > > > of > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > examination of lagna lord's bhavashraya phala in > > BHPH. > > > > I'll > > > > > > go > > > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > > > > it by first picking out those phala (results) > which > > are > > > > not > > > > > > > self- > > > > > > > > > > > evident. Here they are: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When in 1st > > > > > > > > > > > > Uncertain in decision > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When in 2nd > > > > > > > > > > > > Many wives > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When in 3rd > > > > > > > > > > > > Many kinds of wealth (bhavat bhavam?), 2 wives > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When in 4th > > > > > > > > > > > > Lust > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When in 5th > > > > > > > > > > > > Angry, loss of the 1st child > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When in 7th > > > > > > > > > > > > Uninterested in worldly life and wife > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When in 12th > > > > > > > > > > > > Good health > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > These results are not easy to discern, given > the > > first > > > > > > > factor > > > > > > > > > > > (the linkage of the the self to the department > > > > represented > > > > > > by > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > house the lagna lord tenants) and the sweeping > good > > that > > > > > > > lagna lord > > > > > > > > > > > brings to the bhava it goes to. Take its > placement > > in > > > > 5th. > > > > > > > Why loss > > > > > > > > > > > of child at all? Most other works > declare, 'susuta', > > > > > > meaning > > > > > > > good > > > > > > > > > > > progeny. I'll cite one such at a later stage for > > all > > > > house > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > tenancy > > > > > > > > > > > as far as 1st lord is concerned. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One more thing I'd like to think aloud about. > > Rule > > > > says > > > > > > > that any > > > > > > > > > > > lord that goes to a dusthana will bring detriment > > to the > > > > > > > house the > > > > > > > > > > > planet is lord of. Now how do we reconcile the L1 > > in > > > > 12th > > > > > > > ensuring > > > > > > > > > > > good health? Will it take care of the attrition > of > > body > > > > > > (12th > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > 1st hse, ie body) without itself being subject to > > > > > > detriment? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RK > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > > > > > > > > > The primary derivations for Lagna lord in > various > > > > houses > > > > > > as > > > > > > > per > > > > > > > > > > > BPHS is given below. I invite all to start a > > discussion > > > > on > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > same. > > > > > > > > > > > > ================================= > > > > > > > > > > > > As per BPHS, for Lagna lord in - > > > > > > > > > > > > Lagna: healthy body, courageous, uncertain in > > > > decisions, > > > > > > 2 > > > > > > > wives > > > > > > > > > > > > 2nd house: knowledgeable, good earnings, > > happiness, > > > > good > > > > > > > habits, > > > > > > > > > > > righteous, many wives, good qualities. > > > > > > > > > > > > 3rd house: valorous like a lion, all kinds of > > wealth, > > > > 2 > > > > > > > wives, > > > > > > > > > > > intelligent. > > > > > > > > > > > > 4th house: love and affection from healthy > mother > > with > > > > > > good > > > > > > > > > > > longevity, many brothers/sisters, lust, beauty > and > > good > > > > > > > qualities. > > > > > > > > > > > > 5th house: angry, moderate happiness from > > children, > > > > loss > > > > > > of > > > > > > > first > > > > > > > > > > > born (child), admired by government and > authorities. > > > > > > > > > > > > 6th house: (especially if aspected by malefics) > > > > trouble > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > > enemies, bad health. > > > > > > > > > > > > 7th house: (especially if Lagna lord is a > > malefic) his > > > > > > wife > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > > die early (or married life will not go long), he > > will > > > > > > become > > > > > > > > > > > uninterested in worldly life and wife, will be > > detached > > > > > > > towards his > > > > > > > > > > > native land and wander/visit many places, It is > > possible > > > > > > that > > > > > > > he > > > > > > > > > > > won't be much wealthy (he would be a poor man) or > > also > > > > that > > > > > > he > > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > > > be a very wealthy person like a king. > > > > > > > > > > > > 8th house: master of some branch of knowledge, > > > > troubled > > > > > > by > > > > > > > > > > > diseases, interested in others wives, will be > > > > interested in > > > > > > > all > > > > > > > > kinds > > > > > > > > > > > of games such as cards, chess, dice, lottery and > so > > on, > > > > > > very > > > > > > > much > > > > > > > > > > > angry. > > > > > > > > > > > > 9th house: lucky, loved by the public, devotee > of > > > > Vishnu, > > > > > > > > master of > > > > > > > > > > > words and oratory, will have good wealth wife and > > > > children. > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house: admired by government and people in > > power > > > > > > (the > > > > > > > native > > > > > > > > > > > will have a good job), he would be a government > > servant, > > > > > > very > > > > > > > much > > > > > > > > > > > popular. > > > > > > > > > > > > 11th house: much income from many sources, good > > > > > > popularity > > > > > > > > > > > (popularity due to good deeds, celebrity), good > > > > qualities, > > > > > > > many > > > > > > > > wives. > > > > > > > > > > > > 12th house: good health, extravagant without > > reason, > > > > > > angry > > > > > > > > > > > (especially if not benefics are present in 12th > and > > if > > > > no > > > > > > > benefic > > > > > > > > > > > aspects 12th) > > > > > > > > > > > > ================================= > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Love, > > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > , > > manju > > > > > > > chawla > > > > > > > > > > > <manjuch2001@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank You Sreenadhji > > > > > > > > > > > > > we would learn this subject in this way.You > are > > > > really > > > > > > > > helping us > > > > > > > > > > > God bless you > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards > > > > > > > > > > > > > manju > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh sreesog@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let us start a new discussion on the > > subject " What > > > > > > should > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > > > > predicted for Lagna lord in Various houses? " - > > > let > > > > the > > > > > > > > discussion > > > > > > > > > > > go > > > > > > > > > > > > > first and then comparison of it with actual > > results. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Love, > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " I am careful not to confuse excellence with > > > > > > > > > > > perfection,Excellence-I can reach for,Perfection > is > > > > God's > > > > > > > > business--- > > > > > > > > > > > Michael J.Fox > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out > > > > tonight's top > > > > > > > > picks on > > > > > > > > > > > TV. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Get the freedom to save as many mails as you > > wish. > > > > Click > > > > > > > here to > > > > > > > > > > > know how. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Get the freedom to save as many mails as you > wish. > > Click > > > > > > here > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > know how. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Try the revolutionary next-gen Mail. Click > > here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Unlimited freedom, unlimited storage. Get it now > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Get the freedom to save as many mails as you wish. > Click > > here > > > > to > > > > > > > know how. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Get the freedom to save as many mails as you wish. Click > > here to > > > > > > know how. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why delete messages? Unlimited storage is just a click away. > > > > > > Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! > Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Games. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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