Double Jeopardy (Bhavathbhavam) - Bhava-Amsa/Bhava Suchaka Navamsha

September 20, 2007

Dear Shri Sreenadh

It is well written regarding Bhava chintha and Bhava Bhava chinta.It

will take a considerable number of years in ones life time to

understand Bhava and Bhava-Bhava vichinthanam.When we are not

prepared for the HOLISTIC apparoach we go for workarounds and

compartmentalisations,which will leave us in compartments without

leading us to unified Truths.

One should think why Rashi Tulya Navamsha is called BHAVA-AMSHA or

Bhava Suchaka Navamsha.Here we are seeing in which Bhava(always in

Rashi chakra as 12 Rashis represent 12 Bhavas) the navamsha is

falling.It is a SUCHAKA or indicator on the Bhava on to which the

navamsha is falling.

Why is navamsha Tulya rashi not having any Bhavas or such suchakas?

As i am writing a paper on this ,and as enough has been said,details

are not being touched.

All of us are happy that your initiatives and our collective efforts

will take us towards the shore of TRUTH.If BHAVA is not understood

then what do we understand in Jyotish?

Regds

Pradeep

, " Sreenadh "

<sreesog wrote:

>

> Dear RK ji,

> ==>

> > Even 6th-and-11th and 10th-and-7th fall in the category.

> <==

> Yes - the complete list is -

> • For 1st, 1st (1st from 1st) is very important

> • For 2nd, 3rd (2nd from 2nd) is very important

> • For 3rd, 5th (3rd from 3rd) is very important

> • For 4th, 7th (4th from 4th) is very important

> • For 5th, 9th (5th from 5th ) is very important

> • For 6th, 11th (6th from 6th) is very important

> • For 7th, 1st (7th from 7th ) is very important

> • For 8th, 3rd (8th from 8th ) is very important

> • For 9th, 5th (9th from 9th ) is very important

> • For 10th, 7th (10th from 10th ) is very important

> • For 11th, 9th (11th from 11th ) is very important

> • For 12th, 11th (12th from 12th ) is very important

>

> [Note that All the odd houses - 1st, 3rd, 5th, 7th, 9th & 11 th

are

> gaining double importance in this list]

> ==>

> It's one thing to read progeny from 9th because 9th is 5 houses

away

> from 5th, and another to read enemy from 11th 'coz it is 6 houses

away

> from 6th. One thing to read spouse from 7th and another to move 7

> houses from 7th and read the same from there.

> <==

> The point is " It is NOT reading the SAME, but reading the

DETAILS " .

> The paired house (given above) has MAXIMUM INFLUENCE on DETAILS

> concerning that prime significance. It is the confusion regarding

the

> 'Same' that causes you to argue on the above lines.

> Ofcouse 11th can gives us much details in 'Bhavat Bhava Chinta';

But

> please don't confuce it with 'Bhava Chinta' where 6th only

signifies

> enemy and NOT 11th. 'Bhava Chinta' and 'Bhavat Bhava Chinta' are

two

> methods/thought-tools.

> ==>

> > The 1st and 11th where individuals (relatives) are concerned

remain

> irrefragable, because reiteration will cause chaos.

> <==

> In astrology instead of compartmentalization and classification,

> holistic approach and integration gains importance at the end.

The

> ppl gets struck up in the first method term the second as chaos.

The

> astrologer is 'Ooha-Apoha Patu' meaning -

> 1. First he uses analytical/classification methods to derive prime

> results. (This is termed 'Ooha'; This is the analytical approach).

For

> example. some malefic influence in 4th, then he knows that

something

> bad should be predicted derived for mother.

> 2. Second, he uses the holistic/integration approach to confirm

and

> derive details (secondary results). (This is termed 'Apoha'; This

is

> holistic approach). For example, Some influence on 4th from 4th,

> Something about Mo, some other combinations in chart indicate

> something related to Mother; In essence a multitude of houses and

> planets start speaking about the mother! The astrologer see this,

the

> conclusion is being drawn by his consciousness (No, he is NOT doing

> it, but rather he REFLECTS it; even though his total understanding

> about methodologies becomes the fuel, the fire is the integrated

> nature of consciousness itself). Yah, this second face will feel

like

> chaos to those who strictly stick to the fragmented first approach

alone.

> Astrology gives equal importance to both these strategies

Analytical

> & Holistic (Ooha & Apoha). It is not that Analytical is more

important

> or that Holistic is more important; Both of them are equally

> important. Analytical approach is the base (because of the

fragmented

> nature of human mind) and Holistic approach is the culmination

> (because of the integrated nature of the consciousness).

> I don't know to what extend I have succeeded in conveying the

idea, I

> want to convey. Yes, this though process is part of 'Bhava Chinta'

and

> 'Bhavat Bhava' chinta as well. In a way you can consider 'Bhava

> Chinta' as part of analytical, and 'Bhava Bhava Chinta' as part of

> holistic providing details. As a whole together they reflect the

whole.

> ==>

> > I think we'll have to turn to verification of this aspect of

b.b.

> from actual charts, at a later stage.

> <==

> Yes, we have to and we will.

> Love and Hugs,

> Sreenadh

>

> , rk dash

> <arkaydash@> wrote:

> >

> > Yes, Sreenadh,

> >

> > Even 6th-and-11th and 10th-and-7th fall in the category. But,

and

> this is a 'nice' but, my contention is: not lock stock and barrel.

> Particularly where relatives are concerned we better leave the

> incompatible signifcations out of the reiteration in these

> house-pairs. It's one thing to read progeny from 9th because 9th

is 5

> houses away from 5th, and another to read enemy from 11th 'coz it

is 6

> houses away from 6th. One thing to read spouse from 7th and

another to

> move 7 houses from 7th and read the same from there. Our

derivations

> would then be: 7th is spouse, 1st is spouse, not self. And one's

> father's co-borns would be one's enemies.

> >

> > The 1st and 11th where inidviduals (relatives) are concerned

remain

> irrefragable, because reiteration will cause choas.

> >

> > Reminds me of a similar rule in arudha determination. When the

> lord of a house is 7 houses away from that house, you know the

arudha

> does not move 7 house away from the lord's position.

> >

> > I think we'll have to turn to verification of this aspect of

b.b.

> from actual charts, at a later stage.

> >

> > Your turn.

> > RK

> >

> > Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote:

> > Dear RK ji,

> > 1) Malefic affliction simultaneously of 4th & 7th (4th from

4th):

> > harms mother

> > In similar lines -

> > 2) Malefic affliction simultaneously of 3rd & 5th (3rd from

3rd):

> > harms younger co-born (brother or sister)

> > Yes, BB is one of the major rules in operation here that helps

us

> > draw this conclusion. I don't any confusion is involved in it.

This

> > is a rule applicable everywhere. You should not that out of all

the

> > 12 houses from any house, well being of the house with the same

> > number gains maximum importance. For example –

> > · For 4th, 7th (4th from 4th) is very important

> > · For 5th , 9th (5th from 5th ) is very important

> > · For 7th, Lagna (7th from 7th ) is very important

> > · For 8th , 3rd (8th from 8th ) is very important

> > · For 9th, 5th (9th from 9th ) is very important and so on.

> >

> > Proceed with your argument and clarification.

> > Love,

> > Sreenadh

> >

> > , rk dash

> > <arkaydash@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Sreenadh,

> > >

> > > Yesterday I said, another day.

> > >

> > > Malefic afflication simultanously of 4th & 7th harms mother.

And

> > you say that is due to b.b., not anything else. Fine. Now tell

me

> > whether affliction of 3rd as well as 5th will persuade us to

read an

> > affliction of two co-born houses -- namely, 3rd and 3rd from

3rd,

> > which is 5th?

> > > Would you read extended 3rd-ness (the extended theme of

sibling)

> > from 5th?

> > > Promising to relieve you of the double jeopardy.

> > >

> > > RK

> > >

> > > Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > Dear Sairam ji,

> > > Good Morning. You are right.

> > > Houses (Bhava) - are directly related to Native - Prime

> > significance.

> > > House to House - are directly related to House and indirectly

to

> > > native - Secondary significance; Details of items indicated by

> > > Primary significance.

> > >

> > > Eg _1:

> > > 4th : Mother.

> > > Houses from 4th house: Details of Mother.

> > >

> > > Eg _2:

> > > 4th : Native House.

> > > Houses from 4th house: Details of Native House.

> > >

> > > Eg _3:

> > > 2th : Face.

> > > Houses from 2th house: Details of Face.

> > >

> > > Yes, 'Bhavat Bhavam' is one of the straight forward, well

known,

> > > fundamental rule used for result derivation.

> > > Love,

> > > Sreenadh

> > >

> > > , sairam nat

> > > <sairaman53@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Sairaman

> > > >

> > > > goodmorning all members

> > > >

> > > > re garding bhavathvam i have something to ay

> > > >

> > > > there aretwo divisions in astrology like a coin 2 sides

> > > >

> > > > one that isdirectly connected to lagna like education

sickness

> > > accidents etc

> > > >

> > > > we cannot a proxy for our thirst sleep for job education etc

> > unless

> > > we go to job personally work there we cannot salary

> > > >

> > > > a vechicle money property may owned by any enjoyed by others

> > > >

> > > > the lagna sufferes any thing connected to 8and 12th houswe

of

> > lagna

> > > rest ofthe bhavas from the bhavams do not much affect the

native as

> > > such for eg

> > > >

> > > > if 10th lord in 5th it is 8th of 10th it is no away affects

the

> > > native as the 5th 9th etc are verygood bhava for the native

from

> > the

> > > lagna whever lagna suffers the native suffers

> > > >

> > > > so connecting each bhava to other may not affect the

> > lagnathipathi

> > > the native is not affected much

> > > >

> > > > education sleep enjoyment happniness the state of mind

thirst

> > > hunger etc etc all the individual 3enjoys cannot be transfered

to

> > > others

> > > >

> > > > i have my 10th lord saturn in my 5th house i have much

worrying

> > > many years back after experience i have come to conclusion it

never

> > > affected me i have good job well respected by boss going well

for

> > > past 34 years with some good changes for betterment well

> > experienced

> > > in so many different fields in job i am so happy as the 5th

house

> > is

> > > houe of poorvapunya all my big bosses so intimately personally

> > > attached to me with good affection and love

> > > >

> > > > bhavath bhavam is a very good concept however while

expecting

> > > results as such

> > > >

> > > > thank y all with my wishes and regards

> > > >

> > > > rk dash <arkaydash@> wrote:

> > > > Dear Sunil, Lalit Saab, Sreenadh and friends,

> > > >

> > > > My bit. Bhavat bhavam is an operator of a rule, thus has its

> > > ambit. And I expect we all know it. If we push it beyond the

ambit,

> > > the outcome will be illogic. Lalit Saab is right. 4th being

12th

> > from

> > > 5th should by bhavat bhavam logic cause attrition to/ take

away

> > from

> > > 5th. The same would go for 9th w.r.t. 10th. But nothing

untoward

> > > happens to 10th if, for example, its lord goes to 9th. My

personal

> > > experience, really personal, says nothing untoward happens. I

have

> > > come across interpretation which expounds retirement from 9th.

Yes,

> > > in the former pair, the maximus that can happen is children

(or one

> > > of them) may live away from the ancestral home of the native.

I

> > know

> > > of at least one such chart.

> > > >

> > > > So, don't we know where bhavat bhavam holds, where it holds

not?

> > > We do. But justificatory haste puts paid to sound derivation.

> > > >

> > > > Sreenaadh, in your file, have you also taken care of the

goof

> > > that 7th is 4th from 3rd and about a page's wonderment as to

how to

> > > reconcile self's mother and coborn's? 7th is 4th from 4th,

ergo it

> > > reduplicates some of the significations of 4th. Mind you, not

all

> > of

> > > them. And the one that is not is '4th as mother'. Yes, 4th as

> > asset,

> > > etc is mirrored by 7th. Bhavat bhavam in 7th (4th from 4th)

cannot

> > > clash with turya (source) of 4th, with 4th as mother. 7th --

that

> > > which confronts you, the other that you interact with -- is

> > PRIMARILY

> > > & IRREFRAGABLY spouse, partner and the like, so 'mother'

> > > reduplication drops off.

> > > >

> > > > We'll try to be lively but unerring.

> > > > RK

> > > >

> > > > Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > > Dear Lalit ji,

> > > > It is inside the folder named " Sreenadh " . But I am yet to

upload

> > > the

> > > > updated file, I will try to do it by today evening.

> > > > Love,

> > > > Sreenadh

> > > >

> > > > , " litsol "

> > > > <mishra.lalit@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Srinadh.

> > > > >

> > > > > I didn't see this document in the file section, can u tell

me

> > in

> > > > what

> > > > > folder this pdf is there.

> > > > >

> > > > > regards,

> > > > > Lalit.

> > > > >

> > > > > --- In

, " Sreenadh "

> > > > > <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Lalit ji,

> > > > > > It is applicable everywhere. I have already address this

> > doubt

> > > > in

> > > > > > detail in my modified document on " Lagna lord in various

> > > > > houses.pdf "

> > > > > > file. So I will spare my energy - not trying to explain

it

> > > here. I

> > > > > > will try to upload the document possibly by today

evening

> > > > itself.

> > > > > > Love,

> > > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > > >

> > > > > > , " litsol "

> > > > > > <mishra.lalit@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Sunil Ji,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I had doubts, i m trying to put forth like this -

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Can we apply this logic to 4'th and 5'th houses, 4'th

being

> > > > 12'th

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > 5'th should denote some kind of loss to 5'th house,

that i

> > > > think

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > not true.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Same is relation between 3'rd and 11'th, 3'rd is 6'th

from

> > > > 11'th,

> > > > > > > 3'rd might be complementary to 11'th but not the

contrary.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Like if one does efforts, he will have gains.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > regards,

> > > > > > > Lalit.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > --- In

, " sunil

> > nair "

> > > > > > > <astro_tellerkerala@> wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Hare rama krishna,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > dear lalit ,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > The upachayas are 3,6,10,11 and 6 is both

> > > > > dustana

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > upachaya,Upachaya houses are supposed to be houses

of

> > free

> > > > will

> > > > > u

> > > > > > > can

> > > > > > > > execute in this life concerned with that bhava and

also

> > > > known

> > > > > as

> > > > > > > houses

> > > > > > > > of growth .That is why generaly says planets in

upachaya

> > > > gives

> > > > > good

> > > > > > > > results .

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Now let us take 2nd house and its upachaya houses.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 4th house being 3rd from 2nd ( house of family or

kutumba

> > > > > where

> > > > > > > one

> > > > > > > > born or even this place is to see kula devata

according

> > to

> > > > > prashna

> > > > > > > > maaraga) ,7th house being 6th from 2nd house (house

of

> > > > > > > > marriage,partnership and even how we interact with

out

> > side

> > > > > world

> > > > > > > also

> > > > > > > > madhana bhava and yatra bhava) ,and 11th house being

10th

> > > > from

> > > > > 2nd

> > > > > > > house

> > > > > > > > ( house of all kinf of gains and incomes ,frnds,and

even

> > > our

> > > > > elder

> > > > > > > > siblings) and the 12th house ( the house of

expenditure

> > and

> > > > > loses

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > even our house of bed room pleasures ) ,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Now if we apply logic we can see all this houses has

a

> > > great

> > > > > say in

> > > > > > > > accumulation of money which is one of the

characteristics

> > > of

> > > > > 2nd

> > > > > > > house.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > waiting comments from all scholars and members.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > regrds sunil nair.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > om shreem mahalaxmai namah.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > --- In

, " litsol "

> > > > > > > > <mishra.lalit@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I agree to this point to some extent, It's not

always a

> > > > good

> > > > > try

> > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > understand one house on the basis of how far it is

from

> > > > some

> > > > > > > house,

> > > > > > > > > there are only 12 houses, so each and every house

comes

> > > > n'th

> > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > 1'st to 12'th from remaining houses.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Better way of understanding the houses is trying

to

> > > > > understand

> > > > > > > basic

> > > > > > > > > charactersitic like if upchaya say 3rd house, why

3'rd

> > is

> > > > an

> > > > > > > upachaya

> > > > > > > > > etc. and then learning trikonas like dharma

trikona,

> > > Bhoga

> > > > > trikona

> > > > > > > > > etc.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > regards,

> > > > > > > > > Lalit.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > ,

rk dash

> > > > > > > > > arkaydash@ wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh,

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Yes, I think so. They probably are from the

Meenaraj

> > > > > > > > > Hora/Horapradeepam sources now that I get to see

your

> > PDF

> > > > > file.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > What I meant when I said: " Examples will of

course

> > pour

> > > > in.

> > > > > But

> > > > > > > > > we have to

> > > > > > > > > > see where a particular result is flowing from --

from

> > > L1

> > > > in

> > > > > a

> > > > > > > > > > particular hse, or other planet/lords'

configuration "

> > > is

> > > > > this.

> > > > > > > When

> > > > > > > > > we take up example charts (and we haven't come to

that

> > as

> > > > > yet), we

> > > > > > > > > have to be careful not to confuse any particular

> > > experience

> > > > > > > emanating

> > > > > > > > > from other configurations/patterns and a

bhavashraya

> > > phala

> > > > of

> > > > > a

> > > > > > > house

> > > > > > > > > lord. That is how we correctly validate the

derivation

> > in

> > > > > slokas.

> > > > > > > We

> > > > > > > > > all know what drama the 'yogaja phala' can

introduce in

> > a

> > > > > chart.

> > > > > > > The

> > > > > > > > > task is arduous; it requires rigours. I was doing

some

> > > loud

> > > > > > > thinking

> > > > > > > > > on the methodological rigours staring at us, in

advance.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I went thru your PDF file. Umm, I would say some

of

> > > your

> > > > > logic

> > > > > > > > > searches overshoot themselves. Take this one. The

> > result

> > > of

> > > > > wealth

> > > > > > > > > with lagna lord in 4th house. You say, 4th is 3rd

from

> > > 2nd,

> > > > ie

> > > > > > > > > upachaya from 2nd, which is how. Not very elegant

as a

> > > > > rationale.

> > > > > > > The

> > > > > > > > > reason, to my mind, is the wealth of

siginfications the

> > > 4th

> > > > > hse

> > > > > > > > > holds -- house, vehicle and what have you. Now,

> > applying

> > > > your

> > > > > > > well-

> > > > > > > > > plucked Rule Four, which says lagna lord amplifies

(the

> > > > > goodness

> > > > > > > of)

> > > > > > > > > the house it goes to, the logic behind wealth is

valid.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I do like your Rule reminders. Commendable.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Best,

> > > > > > > > > > RK

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > PS: I will take your hugs when we proceed

> > on 'sustained

> > > > > topics'

> > > > > > > > > in a more organised fashion...

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh sreesog@ wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > Dear RK ji,

> > > > > > > > > > Thanks. The derivations given are good - and

looks as

> > > if

> > > > > solely

> > > > > > > > > > based on " Houses " alone.

> > > > > > > > > > ==>

> > > > > > > > > > Now, the rationale. Examples will of course pour

in.

> > > But

> > > > we

> > > > > > > have to

> > > > > > > > > > see where a particular result is flowing from --

from

> > > L1

> > > > in

> > > > > a

> > > > > > > > > > particular hse, or other planet/lords'

configuration.

> > > You

> > > > > agree?

> > > > > > > > > > <==

> > > > > > > > > > Apart from houses, I don't think anything such

as

> > > > > Planet/lords

> > > > > > > etc

> > > > > > > > > > comes in to play in the derivations you provided.

> > > > > > > > > > *Lord are of Signs; Houses does not have any

lords -

> > > and

> > > > so

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > same

> > > > > > > > > > is discarded.

> > > > > > > > > > * Planets are not at all considered in house

based

> > > > > derivation -

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > so the same is discarded.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I ascertain, the derivations are solely based on

> > > houses,

> > > > > and so

> > > > > > > > > > should be the logic behind. Yah, RK ji, you can

> > proceed

> > > > with

> > > > > > > > > > explaining the logic behid each of those

> > > derivations...

> > > > > > > > > > Love and Hugs,

> > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > ,

rk

> > dash

> > > > > > > > > > <arkaydash@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Shreenadh,

> > > > > > > > > > > Here is the bhavashraya phala of L1 as found

in the

> > > > > compedium.

> > > > > > > > > > There is an 'result' for the 5th hse, but I 'll

take

> > > time

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > make

> > > > > > > > > out

> > > > > > > > > > what is meant.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > In 1st house

> > > > > > > > > > > Healthy, long-lived, king(ly), strong, gain of

land

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > 2nd hse

> > > > > > > > > > > Wealthy, engaged in right action, head of the

> > > locality,

> > > > > life

> > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > plenty, corpulent

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > 3rd hse

> > > > > > > > > > > Has good friends, religiosity, generosity;

brave,

> > > strong

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > 4th hse

> > > > > > > > > > > King's favourite, lives life to the full

(could

> > also

> > > > > > > mean 'very

> > > > > > > > > > long-lived,' the expression being prachura-

jivita),

> > > earns

> > > > > by

> > > > > > > right

> > > > > > > > > > means, devoted to father, voracious

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > 5th hse

> > > > > > > > > > > Good children, engaged in good deeds, has

humility,

> > > > known

> > > > > his

> > > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > > > good qualities

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > 6th hse

> > > > > > > > > > > Healthy, strong, gain of land, miserly, rich,

> > subdues

> > > > > > > enemies, on

> > > > > > > > > > the side of good deeds

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > 7th hse

> > > > > > > > > > > Brilliant, good manners, cultured wife, spends

> > > himself

> > > > > fast

> > > > > > > > > > during coitus, good-looking

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > 8th hse

> > > > > > > > > > > Miserly, unreliable in financial matters, very

long-

> > > > > lived,

> > > > > > > harsh

> > > > > > > > > > in speech if the planet is a malefic, large

physique

> > if

> > > a

> > > > > > > benefic

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > 9th hse

> > > > > > > > > > > Good people are his friends, good deeds,

balanced

> > > > (without

> > > > > > > > > > extremes), cultured, known for his good deeds,

> > brilliant

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > 10th hse

> > > > > > > > > > > Gains from ruler (state), learned, cultured,

> > reverent

> > > > > towards

> > > > > > > > > > guru and mother, king, famous

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > 11th hse

> > > > > > > > > > > Long-lived, has progeny, spends himself fast

during

> > > > > coitus,

> > > > > > > > > > powerful

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > 12th hse

> > > > > > > > > > > Harsh speech, very sharp mind, goes abroad, a

free

> > > > loader

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Now, the rationale. Examples will of couse

pour in.

> > > But

> > > > > we

> > > > > > > have

> > > > > > > > > > to see where a particular result is flowing

from --

> > > from

> > > > L1

> > > > > in a

> > > > > > > > > > particular hse, or other planet/lords'

configuration.

> > > You

> > > > > agree?

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > RK

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > Dear RK ji,

> > > > > > > > > > > ==>

> > > > > > > > > > > I know of a compendium in vernacular which

collates

> > > the

> > > > > best

> > > > > > > > > (best

> > > > > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > > > > the compiler thought any particular aspect

from a

> > > > classic

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > be)

> > > > > > > > > > > available, which goes into this aspect (lord

going

> > to

> > > > > > > different

> > > > > > > > > > houses)

> > > > > > > > > > > <==

> > > > > > > > > > > Can you provide the results derived/provided

by

> > that

> > > > book

> > > > > > > > > for " lagna

> > > > > > > > > > > lord going to various houses " ? That could be

much

> > > > > beneficial

> > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > our

> > > > > > > > > > > current study - we will try to find the logic

used

> > > > behind

> > > > > > > those

> > > > > > > > > > > derivations, and accept or reject each of

those

> > > > > derivations;

> > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > > > usual

> > > > > > > > > > > based on conditions such as -

> > > > > > > > > > > * logical or not

> > > > > > > > > > > * Real life experience supports the same or not

> > > > > > > > > > > It doesn't matter whether the source mention

or the

> > > > > Sanskrit

> > > > > > > > > > original

> > > > > > > > > > > is available or not - as long as the

derivations

> > are

> > > > > logical,

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > reflect the actual experience.

> > > > > > > > > > > > the 'material' looks very insightful stuff.

> > > > > > > > > > > That is very good point - which itself I think

> > > indicate

> > > > > that

> > > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > > > could

> > > > > > > > > > > be valuable material.

> > > > > > > > > > > Love,

> > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > --- In

, rk

> > > dash

> > > > > > > > > > > <arkaydash@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > OK, Sree, that about sums up the scenario on

one

> > of

> > > > the

> > > > > 7-

> > > > > > > fold

> > > > > > > > > > > method. But the search, esp. for rishi hora

source

> > > must

> > > > > be

> > > > > > > kept

> > > > > > > > > on.

> > > > > > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > > > > know of a compedium in vernacular which

collates

> > the

> > > > best

> > > > > > > (best

> > > > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > compiler thought any particular aspect from a

> > classic

> > > > to

> > > > > be)

> > > > > > > > > > > available, which goes into this aspect (lord

going

> > to

> > > > > > > different

> > > > > > > > > > > houses) but there is no source mention for the

> > > portion

> > > > > nor is

> > > > > > > > > there

> > > > > > > > > > > the Sanskrit original for it unlike most other

> > > portions

> > > > > in the

> > > > > > > > > > > compendium. Nevertheless the 'material' looks

very

> > > > > insightful

> > > > > > > > > stuff.

> > > > > > > > > > > It is things like this that I had in mind.

Let's

> > see.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Best,

> > > > > > > > > > > > RK

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > Dear RK ji,

> > > > > > > > > > > > ==>

> > > > > > > > > > > > Now we have to agree on who next to Parasara

we

> > > take

> > > > on

> > > > > > > board

> > > > > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > > > > > comparison. You have named two: Meenaraja

Hora,

> > and

> > > > Hora

> > > > > > > > > > Pradeepam.

> > > > > > > > > > > > Who else? We don't have to go by the overall

> > > > reputation

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > text.

> > > > > > > > > > > > We may narrow down our selection to the

aspect of

> > > > > > > > > interpretation

> > > > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > > > question in a treatise that may not

otherwise be

> > > > rated

> > > > > very

> > > > > > > > > high.

> > > > > > > > > > What

> > > > > > > > > > > > say?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > So who else? I mean which other authority/-

ies

> > or

> > > > > > > classics?

> > > > > > > > > > > > <==

> > > > > > > > > > > > This question is really difficult to

answer.

> > > Apart

> > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > > Parasara

> > > > > > > > > > > > (for whom various versions of the slokas are

> > > > available

> > > > > for

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > same in

> > > > > > > > > > > > almost all instances) Meena Raja Hora

discusses

> > it.

> > > > The

> > > > > > > > > statements

> > > > > > > > > > > > from Meena Raja Hora is mentioned with

utmost

> > > > > importance in

> > > > > > > > > Hora

> > > > > > > > > > Ratna

> > > > > > > > > > > > as well (at times they slightly variant

versions

> > > of

> > > > the

> > > > > > > slokas

> > > > > > > > > > > > available in current printed verion of Meena

raja

> > > > > hora).

> > > > > > > Hora

> > > > > > > > > > > > pradeepam is a text quoted with reverance by

the

> > > > auther

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > Hora

> > > > > > > > > > Sara

> > > > > > > > > > > > (i.e. Nrisimha Daivanjna), a well known

scholar

> > of

> > > > 17th

> > > > > > > > > century.

> > > > > > > > > > Thus -

> > > > > > > > > > > > Meenaraja hora gets double importance since

> > > supported

> > > > > by

> > > > > > > Hora

> > > > > > > > > > Ratna.

> > > > > > > > > > > > Hora Pradeepam gets double importance since

> > > supported

> > > > > by

> > > > > > > Hora

> > > > > > > > > > Sara.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Some other later day texts MIGHT have

discussed

> > > the

> > > > > same at

> > > > > > > > > times

> > > > > > > > > > > > (though not extensively), but I am yet to

make an

> > > > > elaborate

> > > > > > > > > > search for

> > > > > > > > > > > > the same in texts like Sarvartha Chintamani,

> > Jataka

> > > > > > > Parijata,

> > > > > > > > > > > > Saravali, Phaladeepika etc. One or two

> > rudimentary

> > > > > slokas

> > > > > > > > > related

> > > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > the same we may find in these texts as well.

Some

> > > > slokas

> > > > > > > > > relevant

> > > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > the may find a place in many ancient Rishi

horas

> > > > > (Whereever

> > > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > > find

> > > > > > > > > > > > such a reference I will quote them for

sure). But

> > > for

> > > > > sure

> > > > > > > none

> > > > > > > > > > of the

> > > > > > > > > > > > other texts (except BPHS, Meenaraja hora,

Hora

> > > > > Pradeepam)

> > > > > > > > > > discusses

> > > > > > > > > > > > this subject extensively in detail as per my

> > > current

> > > > > > > knowledge

> > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > understanding. As far as ancient texts

(Rishi

> > > horas)

> > > > are

> > > > > > > > > > concerned it

> > > > > > > > > > > > is possible that the slokas that discuss

this

> > > subject

> > > > > > > > > extensively

> > > > > > > > > > are

> > > > > > > > > > > > lost, even though they might have done the

same

> > > > (since

> > > > > they

> > > > > > > use

> > > > > > > > > 7-

> > > > > > > > > > fold

> > > > > > > > > > > > method).

> > > > > > > > > > > > Love,

> > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > --- In

,

> > rk

> > > > dash

> > > > > > > > > > > > <arkaydash@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, you are homing in on the " pure "

point.

> > > That's

> > > > > what

> > > > > > > this

> > > > > > > > > > > > particular aspect of interpretation of a

chart is

> > > > > about.

> > > > > > > That's

> > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > way (the part-way) to go about it -- core

task,

> > > > > winkling the

> > > > > > > > > > secrets

> > > > > > > > > > > > out of a chart. Now we have to agree on who

> > > > > > > Parasara we

> > > > > > > > > > take

> > > > > > > > > > > > on board for comparision. You have named

two:

> > > > Meenaraja

> > > > > > > Hora,

> > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > Hora

> > > > > > > > > > > > Pradeepam. Who else? We don't have to go by

the

> > > > overall

> > > > > > > > > > reputation of

> > > > > > > > > > > > the text. We may narrow down our selection

to the

> > > > > aspect of

> > > > > > > > > > > > interpretation in question in a treatise

that may

> > > not

> > > > > > > otherwise

> > > > > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > > > rated very high. What say?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > So who else? I mean which other authority/-

ies

> > or

> > > > > > > classics?

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Sotto Voce: I don't want us, you and me,

to be

> > > > > cynosures

> > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > (the

> > > > > > > > > > > > galaxy of) our star-gazers in this

firmament.

> > > > Onlookers

> > > > > all?

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > RK

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear RK ji,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > You are right - to the point. I agree. But

as

> > far

> > > > as

> > > > > LL

> > > > > > > going

> > > > > > > > > > to H-7

> > > > > > > > > > > > > is concerned, the special point

regarding ' if

> > LL

> > > > is a

> > > > > > > > > malefic'

> > > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > mentioned in the sloka itself; there for

we

> > > cannot

> > > > > > > discount

> > > > > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > > > as far

> > > > > > > > > > > > > as the prediction related to the same

given in

> > > the

> > > > > sloka

> > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > concerned.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > For other results regarding LL in H-7

(which we

> > > > would

> > > > > > > discuss

> > > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > detail as this discussion progresses) I

agree

> > > > > absolutely

> > > > > > > with

> > > > > > > > > > your

> > > > > > > > > > > > > logic and argument.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > As far as LL in H-5 is concerned, I think

there

> > > > could

> > > > > be

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > point

> > > > > > > > > > > > > I mentioned under consideration (for BPHS

> > > results)

> > > > > even

> > > > > > > > > though

> > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > same is NOT mentioned in the sloka. But as

you

> > > have

> > > > > > > clearly

> > > > > > > > > > stated,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > the normal expected result for the same

SHOULD

> > > > > > > BE ''susuta'

> > > > > > > > > > (good

> > > > > > > > > > > > > child, or birth of children). Let us keep

this

> > > > doubt

> > > > > open

> > > > > > > > > till

> > > > > > > > > > we

> > > > > > > > > > > > > cross verify the results with the

derivations

> > > given

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > other

> > > > > > > > > > texts and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > come to a logical conclusion/derivation.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > We always have 2 options open to cross

check

> > the

> > > > > results

> > > > > > > > > > predicted

> > > > > > > > > > > > > by BPHS in this context-

> > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) Cross verify the results with the

> > predictions

> > > > > given in

> > > > > > > > > other

> > > > > > > > > > > > > texts (especially Meenaraja Hora & Hora

> > Pradeepam)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Compare the predicted results with

actual

> > > > results

> > > > > > > observed.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > But still, the base rule as you pointed

out is -

> > > > > > > > > > > > > ==>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > What we are concerned at this stage of

> > > > the 'ruling'

> > > > > is:

> > > > > > > L-1

> > > > > > > > > > goes

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > H-5, L-1 goes to H-7 etc, other factors

> > clearly

> > > > > > > discounted.

> > > > > > > > > > Clear?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > <==

> > > > > > > > > > > > > To state in other words, the base rule is -

> > > > > > > > > > > > > " LL going to H-1, H-2, H-3 etc ONLY should

be

> > > > > considered,

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > other

> > > > > > > > > > > > > factors (such as LL being malefic/benefic,

LL

> > > being

> > > > > > > aspected

> > > > > > > > > by

> > > > > > > > > > > > > malefic/benefic etc) should be clearly

> > discounted "

> > > > > > > > > > > > > We will even touch this base rule with

> > > corollaries,

> > > > > ONLY

> > > > > > > WHEN

> > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > special condition is mentioned in the

sloka

> > > itself;

> > > > > just

> > > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > contaminate the result indicated by the

sloka.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > If this corollary is not there, I agree to

your

> > > > > statement

> > > > > > > > > > completely.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Love,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In

> > ,

> > > rk

> > > > > dash

> > > > > > > > > > > > > <arkaydash@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think we should keep out the factor of

L1

> > > being

> > > > a

> > > > > > > natural

> > > > > > > > > > > > > malefic -- the logic you have used for

those

> > > > outcomes

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > L-1

> > > > > > > > > > going to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > 5th, 7th hse (death of first child,

> > uninterested

> > > in

> > > > > > > life/wife

> > > > > > > > > > etc). If

> > > > > > > > > > > > > we must, then we have to qualify the

deduction,

> > > > > > > saying " where

> > > > > > > > > L-

> > > > > > > > > > 5 (or

> > > > > > > > > > > > > L-7) is a malefic or is afflicted " .

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > What we are concerned at this stage of

> > > > the 'ruling'

> > > > > is:

> > > > > > > L-1

> > > > > > > > > > goes

> > > > > > > > > > > > > H-5, L-1 goes to H-7 etc, other factors

clearly

> > > > > > > discounted.

> > > > > > > > > > Clear?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let's carry on,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > RK

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear RK ji,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your concerns are right - important

points

> > > > > mentioned.

> > > > > > > Let

> > > > > > > > > us

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > together try to find out the reasons

based on

> > > our

> > > > > logic.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When in 1st : Uncertain in decision

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lagna lord in lagna gives the native all

the

> > > good

> > > > > > > qualities

> > > > > > > > > > such as

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > compassion, kindness, softness of mind,

> > > emotional

> > > > > > > approach

> > > > > > > > > > etc.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Result? Uncertainty in decision. I think

this

> > > > > account

> > > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > logical

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > basis of the above derivation.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When in 2nd: Many wives

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is just natural. 2nd and 11th house

> > > signify

> > > > > second

> > > > > > > > > > marriage.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > When the lagna lord comes in contact

with any

> > > > house

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > native is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > sure to get the results related to that.

> > Lagna

> > > > lord

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > 2nd

> > > > > > > > > > house

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > makes the native beautiful, talkative,

liked

> > by

> > > > > women

> > > > > > > etc.

> > > > > > > > > > Thus it

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > turns out that it is natural to have

many

> > > > relations

> > > > > > > > > (wives).

> > > > > > > > > > It

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > should be noted that for lagna lord in

lagna,

> > > and

> > > > > lagna

> > > > > > > > > lord

> > > > > > > > > > in 2nd

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > house - 2 wives and many wives are

derived -

> > > NOT

> > > > as

> > > > > a

> > > > > > > bad

> > > > > > > > > > > result, but

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > as a good result; indicating that the

native

> > > will

> > > > > have

> > > > > > > every

> > > > > > > > > > > kind of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > luxury including women.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When in 3rd : Many kinds of wealth, 2

wives

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Valorous - thus many kinds of wealth;

3rd is

> > a

> > > > house

> > > > > > > > > usually

> > > > > > > > > > is of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > MIXED nature indicating

mixed/various/many

> > > > results.

> > > > > > > That is

> > > > > > > > > > why the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > derivation 'Many kinds of wealth'. 2nd

from

> > > 2nd -

> > > > > many

> > > > > > > > > kinds

> > > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > wealth - i think this is why you doubt

that

> > it

> > > > > could be

> > > > > > > due

> > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > bhavat

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > bhavam. 2 wives - i have no idea supply

in

> > this

> > > > > regard.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When in 4th: Lust

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > No idea as of now.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When in 5th: Angry, loss of the 1st

child

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th, any affliction

to it

> > > can

> > > > > affect

> > > > > > > > > both

> > > > > > > > > > 5th

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > house and lagna equally - making a

double

> > > impact.

> > > > > That

> > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > why

> > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > prediction 'loss of child'. Why 1st

child -

> > 5th

> > > > > signify

> > > > > > > 1st

> > > > > > > > > > child

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > more i doubt. Possibly here Parasara

deviates

> > > a

> > > > bit

> > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > conventional prediction owing to the

> > > possibility

> > > > > > > of 'double

> > > > > > > > > > > impact' i

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > think. The standard prediction should be

(we

> > > will

> > > > > > > verify)

> > > > > > > > > > gain of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > child, as you mentioned. (But first the

child

> > > > > should be

> > > > > > > > > born

> > > > > > > > > > for it

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > to perish - this may make both the

> > derivations

> > > > > > > consistent)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When in 7th: Uninterested in worldly

life

> > and

> > > > wife

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > This applies only if lagna lord is a

malefic.

> > > > > Therefore

> > > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > logically ok.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When in 12th: Good health

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > No idea as of now.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Love,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In

> > > ,

> > > > rk

> > > > > dash

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <arkaydash@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Good start. I agree. First theoretical

> > > > > consideration

> > > > > > > then

> > > > > > > > > > we test

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the rules against actual charts. Here's

a

> > small

> > > > > > > beginning

> > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > examination of lagna lord's bhavashraya

phala

> > > in

> > > > > BHPH.

> > > > > > > I'll

> > > > > > > > > go

> > > > > > > > > > > about

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > it by first picking out those phala

(results)

> > > > which

> > > > > are

> > > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > > > self-

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > evident. Here they are:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When in 1st

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Uncertain in decision

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When in 2nd

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Many wives

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When in 3rd

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Many kinds of wealth (bhavat bhavam?),

2

> > wives

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When in 4th

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lust

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When in 5th

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Angry, loss of the 1st child

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When in 7th

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Uninterested in worldly life and wife

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When in 12th

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Good health

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > These results are not easy to discern,

> > given

> > > > the

> > > > > first

> > > > > > > > > > factor

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > (the linkage of the the self to the

> > department

> > > > > > > represented

> > > > > > > > > by

> > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > house the lagna lord tenants) and the

> > sweeping

> > > > good

> > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > lagna lord

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > brings to the bhava it goes to. Take its

> > > > placement

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > 5th.

> > > > > > > > > > Why loss

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > of child at all? Most other works

> > > > declare, 'susuta',

> > > > > > > > > meaning

> > > > > > > > > > good

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > progeny. I'll cite one such at a later

stage

> > > for

> > > > > all

> > > > > > > house

> > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > tenancy

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > as far as 1st lord is concerned.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One more thing I'd like to think aloud

> > about.

> > > > > Rule

> > > > > > > says

> > > > > > > > > > that any

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > lord that goes to a dusthana will bring

> > > detriment

> > > > > to the

> > > > > > > > > > house the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > planet is lord of. Now how do we

reconcile

> > the

> > > L1

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > 12th

> > > > > > > > > > ensuring

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > good health? Will it take care of the

> > attrition

> > > > of

> > > > > body

> > > > > > > > > (12th

> > > > > > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1st hse, ie body) without itself being

> > subject

> > > to

> > > > > > > > > detriment?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RK

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear All,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The primary derivations for Lagna lord

in

> > > > various

> > > > > > > houses

> > > > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > > > per

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > BPHS is given below. I invite all to

start a

> > > > > discussion

> > > > > > > on

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > same.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > =================================

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As per BPHS, for Lagna lord in -

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lagna: healthy body, courageous,

uncertain

> > in

> > > > > > > decisions,

> > > > > > > > > 2

> > > > > > > > > > wives

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2nd house: knowledgeable, good

earnings,

> > > > > happiness,

> > > > > > > good

> > > > > > > > > > habits,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > righteous, many wives, good qualities.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3rd house: valorous like a lion, all

kinds

> > > of

> > > > > wealth,

> > > > > > > 2

> > > > > > > > > > wives,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > intelligent.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4th house: love and affection from

healthy

> > > > mother

> > > > > with

> > > > > > > > > good

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > longevity, many brothers/sisters, lust,

> > beauty

> > > > and

> > > > > good

> > > > > > > > > > qualities.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5th house: angry, moderate happiness

from

> > > > > children,

> > > > > > > loss

> > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > first

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > born (child), admired by government and

> > > > authorities.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6th house: (especially if aspected by

> > > malefics)

> > > > > > > trouble

> > > > > > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > enemies, bad health.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 7th house: (especially if Lagna lord

is a

> > > > > malefic) his

> > > > > > > > > wife

> > > > > > > > > > will

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > die early (or married life will not go

long),

> > > he

> > > > > will

> > > > > > > > > become

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > uninterested in worldly life and wife,

will

> > be

> > > > > detached

> > > > > > > > > > towards his

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > native land and wander/visit many

places, It

> > is

> > > > > possible

> > > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > he

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > won't be much wealthy (he would be a

poor

> > man)

> > > or

> > > > > also

> > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > he

> > > > > > > > > > > would

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > be a very wealthy person like a king.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 8th house: master of some branch of

> > > knowledge,

> > > > > > > troubled

> > > > > > > > > by

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > diseases, interested in others wives,

will be

> > > > > > > interested in

> > > > > > > > > > all

> > > > > > > > > > > kinds

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > of games such as cards, chess, dice,

lottery

> > > and

> > > > so

> > > > > on,

> > > > > > > > > very

> > > > > > > > > > much

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > angry.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 9th house: lucky, loved by the public,

> > > devotee

> > > > of

> > > > > > > Vishnu,

> > > > > > > > > > > master of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > words and oratory, will have good wealth

wife

> > > and

> > > > > > > children.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house: admired by government and

> > people

> > > in

> > > > > power

> > > > > > > > > (the

> > > > > > > > > > native

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > will have a good job), he would be a

> > government

> > > > > servant,

> > > > > > > > > very

> > > > > > > > > > much

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > popular.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 11th house: much income from many

sources,

> > > good

> > > > > > > > > popularity

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > (popularity due to good deeds,

celebrity),

> > good

> > > > > > > qualities,

> > > > > > > > > > many

> > > > > > > > > > > wives.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 12th house: good health, extravagant

> > without

> > > > > reason,

> > > > > > > > > angry

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > (especially if not benefics are present

in

> > 12th

> > > > and

> > > > > if

> > > > > > > no

> > > > > > > > > > benefic

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > aspects 12th)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > =================================

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Love,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In

> > > > ,

> > > > > manju

> > > > > > > > > > chawla

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <manjuch2001@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank You Sreenadhji

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > we would learn this subject in this

> > way.You

> > > > are

> > > > > > > really

> > > > > > > > > > > helping us

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > God bless you

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > manju

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh sreesog@ wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear All,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let us start a new discussion on the

> > > > > subject " What

> > > > > > > > > should

> > > > > > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > predicted for Lagna lord in Various

> > > houses? " -

> > > >

> > > > > let

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > discussion

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > go

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > first and then comparison of it with

> > actual

> > > > > results.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Love,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " I am careful not to confuse

excellence

> > with

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > perfection,Excellence-I can reach

> > > for,Perfection

> > > > is

> > > > > > > God's

> > > > > > > > > > > business---

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Michael J.Fox

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ready for the edge of your seat?

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>

September 20, 2007

Dear Paraddep ji,

Good to see your comments.

==>

> As i am writing a paper on this ..

<==

We would love to see the same, once the same is completed, if you

permit us to.

==>

> All of us are happy that your initiatives and our collective

> efforts will take us towards the shore of TRUTH

<==

Phew...! How daring on this humble soul...! " Shore of truth " !!....

don't make me afraid....I am a coward, you know....

OK. Even if not to the shore of truth, at least a systematic

understanding of ancient astrology will result I hope..

Yes, Bhava is important. Bhavayati tat bhavam (What ever we think of

it, it becomes that). Bhavas in astrology is no different - What ever

we want to think about the whole chart becomes that!

Now some general talk about our study strategies.

Stage -1

========

Usually as per our 7-fold terminology we use the words such as 'Sign

based predation, House based prediction, Planet based prediction

etc'; But it does not sound good in English. I suggest better we

should start using the terms such as -

1. Sign Base (Stanato)

2. House Base (Bhavata)

3. Planet Base (Khetai)

4. Sign-House Base (Stana-Bhava)

5. House-Planet Base (Bhava-Khechara)

6. Sign-Planet Base (Stana-Kheta)

7. Sign-House-Planet Base (Stana-Bhava-Nabhascharai)

For as translation of the Sanskrit terms given in bracket. Using the

word 'Base' instead of 'Based' sounds good, I feel. A detailed

discussion of the above 7 and its sub-rules involved completes

our " fundamentals of ancient indian astrology " . This will complete

our target 'stage -1'

Stage -2

========

The first advanced section [secondary certification ] would be -

1. Use of Dwadasa (12) Varga and Shad (6) Vargas [12 Divisions & 6

Vargadhipas]

2. Planetary Aspect (Graha Drishti) results

3. Special Yogas

4. Dasa and Gochara

5. Prasna in Detail (Ashta mangala Prasna)

Stage -3

========

In our advanced studies we will try to cover all the other areas

such as-

1. Mundane Astrology, Muhoorta, Varsha phala, Derivation of results

for countries and places.

2. Different schools and their unique methodologies (Arha,

BPHS/Jaimini, Yavana, Tajika etc)

3. Any other concept any one want to discuss.

Any one who is involved in our current learning efforts can consider

this as a simple outline of our study strategy. Even if we divert a

bit here and there - we have to come back to this, and learn the

system from the base in detail. Many has followed many other paths

and shortcuts but for no avail. That is the fundamental reason for

our going back to the original and the effort for restructuring the

same - the effort to re-establish the ancient original authentic

system.

I would like to generalize your question -

If 7-fold methodology is not understood then what do we understand in

Jyotish? (Bhava or House Base derivation is just a part of it). If

not even the fundamentals are not correctly understood what can we

do?

Our effort is to negate this question, and make us efficient enough

to say with confidence - Yes, we DO know the fundamentals! We DO know

how to use the 7-fold system of astrology!

Note: The current era is of people who say 'We know' without knowing

a bit - beware of them!

Love,

Sreenadh

, " vijayadas_pradeep "

<vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

>

> Dear Shri Sreenadh

>

> It is well written regarding Bhava chintha and Bhava Bhava

chinta.It

> will take a considerable number of years in ones life time to

> understand Bhava and Bhava-Bhava vichinthanam.When we are not

> prepared for the HOLISTIC apparoach we go for workarounds and

> compartmentalisations,which will leave us in compartments without

> leading us to unified Truths.

>

> One should think why Rashi Tulya Navamsha is called BHAVA-AMSHA or

> Bhava Suchaka Navamsha.Here we are seeing in which Bhava(always in

> Rashi chakra as 12 Rashis represent 12 Bhavas) the navamsha is

> falling.It is a SUCHAKA or indicator on the Bhava on to which the

> navamsha is falling.

>

> Why is navamsha Tulya rashi not having any Bhavas or such suchakas?

>

> As i am writing a paper on this ,and as enough has been

said,details

> are not being touched.

>

> All of us are happy that your initiatives and our collective

efforts

> will take us towards the shore of TRUTH.If BHAVA is not understood

> then what do we understand in Jyotish?

>

> Regds

> Pradeep

>

> , " Sreenadh "

> <sreesog@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear RK ji,

> > ==>

> > > Even 6th-and-11th and 10th-and-7th fall in the category.

> > <==

> > Yes - the complete list is -

> > • For 1st, 1st (1st from 1st) is very important

> > • For 2nd, 3rd (2nd from 2nd) is very important

> > • For 3rd, 5th (3rd from 3rd) is very important

> > • For 4th, 7th (4th from 4th) is very important

> > • For 5th, 9th (5th from 5th ) is very important

> > • For 6th, 11th (6th from 6th) is very important

> > • For 7th, 1st (7th from 7th ) is very important

> > • For 8th, 3rd (8th from 8th ) is very important

> > • For 9th, 5th (9th from 9th ) is very important

> > • For 10th, 7th (10th from 10th ) is very important

> > • For 11th, 9th (11th from 11th ) is very important

> > • For 12th, 11th (12th from 12th ) is very important

> >

> > [Note that All the odd houses - 1st, 3rd, 5th, 7th, 9th & 11 th

> are

> > gaining double importance in this list]

> > ==>

> > It's one thing to read progeny from 9th because 9th is 5 houses

> away

> > from 5th, and another to read enemy from 11th 'coz it is 6 houses

> away

> > from 6th. One thing to read spouse from 7th and another to move 7

> > houses from 7th and read the same from there.

> > <==

> > The point is " It is NOT reading the SAME, but reading the

> DETAILS " .

> > The paired house (given above) has MAXIMUM INFLUENCE on DETAILS

> > concerning that prime significance. It is the confusion regarding

> the

> > 'Same' that causes you to argue on the above lines.

> > Ofcouse 11th can gives us much details in 'Bhavat Bhava Chinta';

> But

> > please don't confuce it with 'Bhava Chinta' where 6th only

> signifies

> > enemy and NOT 11th. 'Bhava Chinta' and 'Bhavat Bhava Chinta' are

> two

> > methods/thought-tools.

> > ==>

> > > The 1st and 11th where individuals (relatives) are concerned

> remain

> > irrefragable, because reiteration will cause chaos.

> > <==

> > In astrology instead of compartmentalization and classification,

> > holistic approach and integration gains importance at the end.

> The

> > ppl gets struck up in the first method term the second as chaos.

> The

> > astrologer is 'Ooha-Apoha Patu' meaning -

> > 1. First he uses analytical/classification methods to derive

prime

> > results. (This is termed 'Ooha'; This is the analytical

approach).

> For

> > example. some malefic influence in 4th, then he knows that

> something

> > bad should be predicted derived for mother.

> > 2. Second, he uses the holistic/integration approach to confirm

> and

> > derive details (secondary results). (This is termed 'Apoha'; This

> is

> > holistic approach). For example, Some influence on 4th from 4th,

> > Something about Mo, some other combinations in chart indicate

> > something related to Mother; In essence a multitude of houses and

> > planets start speaking about the mother! The astrologer see this,

> the

> > conclusion is being drawn by his consciousness (No, he is NOT

doing

> > it, but rather he REFLECTS it; even though his total understanding

> > about methodologies becomes the fuel, the fire is the integrated

> > nature of consciousness itself). Yah, this second face will feel

> like

> > chaos to those who strictly stick to the fragmented first

approach

> alone.

> > Astrology gives equal importance to both these strategies

> Analytical

> > & Holistic (Ooha & Apoha). It is not that Analytical is more

> important

> > or that Holistic is more important; Both of them are equally

> > important. Analytical approach is the base (because of the

> fragmented

> > nature of human mind) and Holistic approach is the culmination

> > (because of the integrated nature of the consciousness).

> > I don't know to what extend I have succeeded in conveying the

> idea, I

> > want to convey. Yes, this though process is part of 'Bhava

Chinta'

> and

> > 'Bhavat Bhava' chinta as well. In a way you can consider 'Bhava

> > Chinta' as part of analytical, and 'Bhava Bhava Chinta' as part of

> > holistic providing details. As a whole together they reflect the

> whole.

> > ==>

> > > I think we'll have to turn to verification of this aspect of

> b.b.

> > from actual charts, at a later stage.

> > <==

> > Yes, we have to and we will.

> > Love and Hugs,

> > Sreenadh

> >

> > , rk dash

> > <arkaydash@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Yes, Sreenadh,

> > >

> > > Even 6th-and-11th and 10th-and-7th fall in the category. But,

> and

> > this is a 'nice' but, my contention is: not lock stock and barrel.

> > Particularly where relatives are concerned we better leave the

> > incompatible signifcations out of the reiteration in these

> > house-pairs. It's one thing to read progeny from 9th because 9th

> is 5

> > houses away from 5th, and another to read enemy from 11th 'coz it

> is 6

> > houses away from 6th. One thing to read spouse from 7th and

> another to

> > move 7 houses from 7th and read the same from there. Our

> derivations

> > would then be: 7th is spouse, 1st is spouse, not self. And one's

> > father's co-borns would be one's enemies.

> > >

> > > The 1st and 11th where inidviduals (relatives) are concerned

> remain

> > irrefragable, because reiteration will cause choas.

> > >

> > > Reminds me of a similar rule in arudha determination. When the

> > lord of a house is 7 houses away from that house, you know the

> arudha

> > does not move 7 house away from the lord's position.

> > >

> > > I think we'll have to turn to verification of this aspect of

> b.b.

> > from actual charts, at a later stage.

> > >

> > > Your turn.

> > > RK

> > >

> > > Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > Dear RK ji,

> > > 1) Malefic affliction simultaneously of 4th & 7th (4th from

> 4th):

> > > harms mother

> > > In similar lines -

> > > 2) Malefic affliction simultaneously of 3rd & 5th (3rd from

> 3rd):

> > > harms younger co-born (brother or sister)

> > > Yes, BB is one of the major rules in operation here that helps

> us

> > > draw this conclusion. I don't any confusion is involved in it.

> This

> > > is a rule applicable everywhere. You should not that out of all

> the

> > > 12 houses from any house, well being of the house with the same

> > > number gains maximum importance. For example –

> > > · For 4th, 7th (4th from 4th) is very important

> > > · For 5th , 9th (5th from 5th ) is very important

> > > · For 7th, Lagna (7th from 7th ) is very important

> > > · For 8th , 3rd (8th from 8th ) is very important

> > > · For 9th, 5th (9th from 9th ) is very important and so on.

> > >

> > > Proceed with your argument and clarification.

> > > Love,

> > > Sreenadh

> > >

> > > , rk dash

> > > <arkaydash@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Sreenadh,

> > > >

> > > > Yesterday I said, another day.

> > > >

> > > > Malefic afflication simultanously of 4th & 7th harms mother.

> And

> > > you say that is due to b.b., not anything else. Fine. Now tell

> me

> > > whether affliction of 3rd as well as 5th will persuade us to

> read an

> > > affliction of two co-born houses -- namely, 3rd and 3rd from

> 3rd,

> > > which is 5th?

> > > > Would you read extended 3rd-ness (the extended theme of

> sibling)

> > > from 5th?

> > > > Promising to relieve you of the double jeopardy.

> > > >

> > > > RK

> > > >

> > > > Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > > Dear Sairam ji,

> > > > Good Morning. You are right.

> > > > Houses (Bhava) - are directly related to Native - Prime

> > > significance.

> > > > House to House - are directly related to House and indirectly

> to

> > > > native - Secondary significance; Details of items indicated

by

> > > > Primary significance.

> > > >

> > > > Eg _1:

> > > > 4th : Mother.

> > > > Houses from 4th house: Details of Mother.

> > > >

> > > > Eg _2:

> > > > 4th : Native House.

> > > > Houses from 4th house: Details of Native House.

> > > >

> > > > Eg _3:

> > > > 2th : Face.

> > > > Houses from 2th house: Details of Face.

> > > >

> > > > Yes, 'Bhavat Bhavam' is one of the straight forward, well

> known,

> > > > fundamental rule used for result derivation.

> > > > Love,

> > > > Sreenadh

> > > >

> > > > , sairam nat

> > > > <sairaman53@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Sairaman

> > > > >

> > > > > goodmorning all members

> > > > >

> > > > > re garding bhavathvam i have something to ay

> > > > >

> > > > > there aretwo divisions in astrology like a coin 2 sides

> > > > >

> > > > > one that isdirectly connected to lagna like education

> sickness

> > > > accidents etc

> > > > >

> > > > > we cannot a proxy for our thirst sleep for job education

etc

> > > unless

> > > > we go to job personally work there we cannot salary

> > > > >

> > > > > a vechicle money property may owned by any enjoyed by others

> > > > >

> > > > > the lagna sufferes any thing connected to 8and 12th houswe

> of

> > > lagna

> > > > rest ofthe bhavas from the bhavams do not much affect the

> native as

> > > > such for eg

> > > > >

> > > > > if 10th lord in 5th it is 8th of 10th it is no away affects

> the

> > > > native as the 5th 9th etc are verygood bhava for the native

> from

> > > the

> > > > lagna whever lagna suffers the native suffers

> > > > >

> > > > > so connecting each bhava to other may not affect the

> > > lagnathipathi

> > > > the native is not affected much

> > > > >

> > > > > education sleep enjoyment happniness the state of mind

> thirst

> > > > hunger etc etc all the individual 3enjoys cannot be

transfered

> to

> > > > others

> > > > >

> > > > > i have my 10th lord saturn in my 5th house i have much

> worrying

> > > > many years back after experience i have come to conclusion it

> never

> > > > affected me i have good job well respected by boss going well

> for

> > > > past 34 years with some good changes for betterment well

> > > experienced

> > > > in so many different fields in job i am so happy as the 5th

> house

> > > is

> > > > houe of poorvapunya all my big bosses so intimately

personally

> > > > attached to me with good affection and love

> > > > >

> > > > > bhavath bhavam is a very good concept however while

> expecting

> > > > results as such

> > > > >

> > > > > thank y all with my wishes and regards

> > > > >

> > > > > rk dash <arkaydash@> wrote:

> > > > > Dear Sunil, Lalit Saab, Sreenadh and friends,

> > > > >

> > > > > My bit. Bhavat bhavam is an operator of a rule, thus has

its

> > > > ambit. And I expect we all know it. If we push it beyond the

> ambit,

> > > > the outcome will be illogic. Lalit Saab is right. 4th being

> 12th

> > > from

> > > > 5th should by bhavat bhavam logic cause attrition to/ take

> away

> > > from

> > > > 5th. The same would go for 9th w.r.t. 10th. But nothing

> untoward

> > > > happens to 10th if, for example, its lord goes to 9th. My

> personal

> > > > experience, really personal, says nothing untoward happens. I

> have

> > > > come across interpretation which expounds retirement from

9th.

> Yes,

> > > > in the former pair, the maximus that can happen is children

> (or one

> > > > of them) may live away from the ancestral home of the native.

> I

> > > know

> > > > of at least one such chart.

> > > > >

> > > > > So, don't we know where bhavat bhavam holds, where it holds

> not?

> > > > We do. But justificatory haste puts paid to sound derivation.

> > > > >

> > > > > Sreenaadh, in your file, have you also taken care of the

> goof

> > > > that 7th is 4th from 3rd and about a page's wonderment as to

> how to

> > > > reconcile self's mother and coborn's? 7th is 4th from 4th,

> ergo it

> > > > reduplicates some of the significations of 4th. Mind you, not

> all

> > > of

> > > > them. And the one that is not is '4th as mother'. Yes, 4th as

> > > asset,

> > > > etc is mirrored by 7th. Bhavat bhavam in 7th (4th from 4th)

> cannot

> > > > clash with turya (source) of 4th, with 4th as mother. 7th --

> that

> > > > which confronts you, the other that you interact with -- is

> > > PRIMARILY

> > > > & IRREFRAGABLY spouse, partner and the like, so 'mother'

> > > > reduplication drops off.

> > > > >

> > > > > We'll try to be lively but unerring.

> > > > > RK

> > > > >

> > > > > Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > > > Dear Lalit ji,

> > > > > It is inside the folder named " Sreenadh " . But I am yet to

> upload

> > > > the

> > > > > updated file, I will try to do it by today evening.

> > > > > Love,

> > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > >

> > > > > , " litsol "

> > > > > <mishra.lalit@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Srinadh.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I didn't see this document in the file section, can u

tell

> me

> > > in

> > > > > what

> > > > > > folder this pdf is there.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > regards,

> > > > > > Lalit.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > --- In

> , " Sreenadh "

> > > > > > <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Lalit ji,

> > > > > > > It is applicable everywhere. I have already address

this

> > > doubt

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > detail in my modified document on " Lagna lord in

various

> > > > > > houses.pdf "

> > > > > > > file. So I will spare my energy - not trying to explain

> it

> > > > here. I

> > > > > > > will try to upload the document possibly by today

> evening

> > > > > itself.

> > > > > > > Love,

> > > > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > --- In

, " litsol "

> > > > > > > <mishra.lalit@> wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Sunil Ji,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I had doubts, i m trying to put forth like this -

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Can we apply this logic to 4'th and 5'th houses, 4'th

> being

> > > > > 12'th

> > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > 5'th should denote some kind of loss to 5'th house,

> that i

> > > > > think

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > not true.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Same is relation between 3'rd and 11'th, 3'rd is 6'th

> from

> > > > > 11'th,

> > > > > > > > 3'rd might be complementary to 11'th but not the

> contrary.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Like if one does efforts, he will have gains.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > regards,

> > > > > > > > Lalit.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > --- In

> , " sunil

> > > nair "

> > > > > > > > <astro_tellerkerala@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Hare rama krishna,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > dear lalit ,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > The upachayas are 3,6,10,11 and 6 is both

> > > > > > dustana

> > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > upachaya,Upachaya houses are supposed to be houses

> of

> > > free

> > > > > will

> > > > > > u

> > > > > > > > can

> > > > > > > > > execute in this life concerned with that bhava and

> also

> > > > > known

> > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > houses

> > > > > > > > > of growth .That is why generaly says planets in

> upachaya

> > > > > gives

> > > > > > good

> > > > > > > > > results .

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Now let us take 2nd house and its upachaya houses.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > 4th house being 3rd from 2nd ( house of family or

> kutumba

> > > > > > where

> > > > > > > > one

> > > > > > > > > born or even this place is to see kula devata

> according

> > > to

> > > > > > prashna

> > > > > > > > > maaraga) ,7th house being 6th from 2nd house (house

> of

> > > > > > > > > marriage,partnership and even how we interact with

> out

> > > side

> > > > > > world

> > > > > > > > also

> > > > > > > > > madhana bhava and yatra bhava) ,and 11th house

being

> 10th

> > > > > from

> > > > > > 2nd

> > > > > > > > house

> > > > > > > > > ( house of all kinf of gains and incomes ,frnds,and

> even

> > > > our

> > > > > > elder

> > > > > > > > > siblings) and the 12th house ( the house of

> expenditure

> > > and

> > > > > > loses

> > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > even our house of bed room pleasures ) ,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Now if we apply logic we can see all this houses

has

> a

> > > > great

> > > > > > say in

> > > > > > > > > accumulation of money which is one of the

> characteristics

> > > > of

> > > > > > 2nd

> > > > > > > > house.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > waiting comments from all scholars and members.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > regrds sunil nair.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > om shreem mahalaxmai namah.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > --- In

> , " litsol "

> > > > > > > > > <mishra.lalit@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I agree to this point to some extent, It's not

> always a

> > > > > good

> > > > > > try

> > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > understand one house on the basis of how far it

is

> from

> > > > > some

> > > > > > > > house,

> > > > > > > > > > there are only 12 houses, so each and every house

> comes

> > > > > n'th

> > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > > 1'st to 12'th from remaining houses.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Better way of understanding the houses is trying

> to

> > > > > > understand

> > > > > > > > basic

> > > > > > > > > > charactersitic like if upchaya say 3rd house, why

> 3'rd

> > > is

> > > > > an

> > > > > > > > upachaya

> > > > > > > > > > etc. and then learning trikonas like dharma

> trikona,

> > > > Bhoga

> > > > > > trikona

> > > > > > > > > > etc.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > regards,

> > > > > > > > > > Lalit.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > ,

> rk dash

> > > > > > > > > > arkaydash@ wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh,

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Yes, I think so. They probably are from the

> Meenaraj

> > > > > > > > > > Hora/Horapradeepam sources now that I get to see

> your

> > > PDF

> > > > > > file.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > What I meant when I said: " Examples will of

> course

> > > pour

> > > > > in.

> > > > > > But

> > > > > > > > > > we have to

> > > > > > > > > > > see where a particular result is flowing from --

> from

> > > > L1

> > > > > in

> > > > > > a

> > > > > > > > > > > particular hse, or other planet/lords'

> configuration "

> > > > is

> > > > > > this.

> > > > > > > > When

> > > > > > > > > > we take up example charts (and we haven't come to

> that

> > > as

> > > > > > yet), we

> > > > > > > > > > have to be careful not to confuse any particular

> > > > experience

> > > > > > > > emanating

> > > > > > > > > > from other configurations/patterns and a

> bhavashraya

> > > > phala

> > > > > of

> > > > > > a

> > > > > > > > house

> > > > > > > > > > lord. That is how we correctly validate the

> derivation

> > > in

> > > > > > slokas.

> > > > > > > > We

> > > > > > > > > > all know what drama the 'yogaja phala' can

> introduce in

> > > a

> > > > > > chart.

> > > > > > > > The

> > > > > > > > > > task is arduous; it requires rigours. I was doing

> some

> > > > loud

> > > > > > > > thinking

> > > > > > > > > > on the methodological rigours staring at us, in

> advance.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I went thru your PDF file. Umm, I would say

some

> of

> > > > your

> > > > > > logic

> > > > > > > > > > searches overshoot themselves. Take this one. The

> > > result

> > > > of

> > > > > > wealth

> > > > > > > > > > with lagna lord in 4th house. You say, 4th is 3rd

> from

> > > > 2nd,

> > > > > ie

> > > > > > > > > > upachaya from 2nd, which is how. Not very elegant

> as a

> > > > > > rationale.

> > > > > > > > The

> > > > > > > > > > reason, to my mind, is the wealth of

> siginfications the

> > > > 4th

> > > > > > hse

> > > > > > > > > > holds -- house, vehicle and what have you. Now,

> > > applying

> > > > > your

> > > > > > > > well-

> > > > > > > > > > plucked Rule Four, which says lagna lord

amplifies

> (the

> > > > > > goodness

> > > > > > > > of)

> > > > > > > > > > the house it goes to, the logic behind wealth is

> valid.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I do like your Rule reminders. Commendable.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Best,

> > > > > > > > > > > RK

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > PS: I will take your hugs when we proceed

> > > on 'sustained

> > > > > > topics'

> > > > > > > > > > in a more organised fashion...

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh sreesog@ wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > Dear RK ji,

> > > > > > > > > > > Thanks. The derivations given are good - and

> looks as

> > > > if

> > > > > > solely

> > > > > > > > > > > based on " Houses " alone.

> > > > > > > > > > > ==>

> > > > > > > > > > > Now, the rationale. Examples will of course

pour

> in.

> > > > But

> > > > > we

> > > > > > > > have to

> > > > > > > > > > > see where a particular result is flowing from --

> from

> > > > L1

> > > > > in

> > > > > > a

> > > > > > > > > > > particular hse, or other planet/lords'

> configuration.

> > > > You

> > > > > > agree?

> > > > > > > > > > > <==

> > > > > > > > > > > Apart from houses, I don't think anything such

> as

> > > > > > Planet/lords

> > > > > > > > etc

> > > > > > > > > > > comes in to play in the derivations you

provided.

> > > > > > > > > > > *Lord are of Signs; Houses does not have any

> lords -

> > > > and

> > > > > so

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > same

> > > > > > > > > > > is discarded.

> > > > > > > > > > > * Planets are not at all considered in house

> based

> > > > > > derivation -

> > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > so the same is discarded.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I ascertain, the derivations are solely based

on

> > > > houses,

> > > > > > and so

> > > > > > > > > > > should be the logic behind. Yah, RK ji, you can

> > > proceed

> > > > > with

> > > > > > > > > > > explaining the logic behid each of those

> > > > derivations...

> > > > > > > > > > > Love and Hugs,

> > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > --- In

,

> rk

> > > dash

> > > > > > > > > > > <arkaydash@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Shreenadh,

> > > > > > > > > > > > Here is the bhavashraya phala of L1 as found

> in the

> > > > > > compedium.

> > > > > > > > > > > There is an 'result' for the 5th hse, but I 'll

> take

> > > > time

> > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > make

> > > > > > > > > > out

> > > > > > > > > > > what is meant.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > In 1st house

> > > > > > > > > > > > Healthy, long-lived, king(ly), strong, gain

of

> land

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > 2nd hse

> > > > > > > > > > > > Wealthy, engaged in right action, head of the

> > > > locality,

> > > > > > life

> > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > plenty, corpulent

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > 3rd hse

> > > > > > > > > > > > Has good friends, religiosity, generosity;

> brave,

> > > > strong

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > 4th hse

> > > > > > > > > > > > King's favourite, lives life to the full

> (could

> > > also

> > > > > > > > mean 'very

> > > > > > > > > > > long-lived,' the expression being prachura-

> jivita),

> > > > earns

> > > > > > by

> > > > > > > > right

> > > > > > > > > > > means, devoted to father, voracious

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > 5th hse

> > > > > > > > > > > > Good children, engaged in good deeds, has

> humility,

> > > > > known

> > > > > > his

> > > > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > > > > good qualities

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > 6th hse

> > > > > > > > > > > > Healthy, strong, gain of land, miserly, rich,

> > > subdues

> > > > > > > > enemies, on

> > > > > > > > > > > the side of good deeds

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > 7th hse

> > > > > > > > > > > > Brilliant, good manners, cultured wife,

spends

> > > > himself

> > > > > > fast

> > > > > > > > > > > during coitus, good-looking

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > 8th hse

> > > > > > > > > > > > Miserly, unreliable in financial matters,

very

> long-

> > > > > > lived,

> > > > > > > > harsh

> > > > > > > > > > > in speech if the planet is a malefic, large

> physique

> > > if

> > > > a

> > > > > > > > benefic

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > 9th hse

> > > > > > > > > > > > Good people are his friends, good deeds,

> balanced

> > > > > (without

> > > > > > > > > > > extremes), cultured, known for his good deeds,

> > > brilliant

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > 10th hse

> > > > > > > > > > > > Gains from ruler (state), learned, cultured,

> > > reverent

> > > > > > towards

> > > > > > > > > > > guru and mother, king, famous

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > 11th hse

> > > > > > > > > > > > Long-lived, has progeny, spends himself fast

> during

> > > > > > coitus,

> > > > > > > > > > > powerful

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > 12th hse

> > > > > > > > > > > > Harsh speech, very sharp mind, goes abroad, a

> free

> > > > > loader

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Now, the rationale. Examples will of couse

> pour in.

> > > > But

> > > > > > we

> > > > > > > > have

> > > > > > > > > > > to see where a particular result is flowing

> from --

> > > > from

> > > > > L1

> > > > > > in a

> > > > > > > > > > > particular hse, or other planet/lords'

> configuration.

> > > > You

> > > > > > agree?

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > RK

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > Dear RK ji,

> > > > > > > > > > > > ==>

> > > > > > > > > > > > I know of a compendium in vernacular which

> collates

> > > > the

> > > > > > best

> > > > > > > > > > (best

> > > > > > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > > > > > the compiler thought any particular aspect

> from a

> > > > > classic

> > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > be)

> > > > > > > > > > > > available, which goes into this aspect (lord

> going

> > > to

> > > > > > > > different

> > > > > > > > > > > houses)

> > > > > > > > > > > > <==

> > > > > > > > > > > > Can you provide the results derived/provided

> by

> > > that

> > > > > book

> > > > > > > > > > for " lagna

> > > > > > > > > > > > lord going to various houses " ? That could be

> much

> > > > > > beneficial

> > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > our

> > > > > > > > > > > > current study - we will try to find the logic

> used

> > > > > behind

> > > > > > > > those

> > > > > > > > > > > > derivations, and accept or reject each of

> those

> > > > > > derivations;

> > > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > > > > usual

> > > > > > > > > > > > based on conditions such as -

> > > > > > > > > > > > * logical or not

> > > > > > > > > > > > * Real life experience supports the same or

not

> > > > > > > > > > > > It doesn't matter whether the source mention

> or the

> > > > > > Sanskrit

> > > > > > > > > > > original

> > > > > > > > > > > > is available or not - as long as the

> derivations

> > > are

> > > > > > logical,

> > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > reflect the actual experience.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > the 'material' looks very insightful stuff.

> > > > > > > > > > > > That is very good point - which itself I

think

> > > > indicate

> > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > > > > could

> > > > > > > > > > > > be valuable material.

> > > > > > > > > > > > Love,

> > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > --- In

> , rk

> > > > dash

> > > > > > > > > > > > <arkaydash@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > OK, Sree, that about sums up the scenario

on

> one

> > > of

> > > > > the

> > > > > > 7-

> > > > > > > > fold

> > > > > > > > > > > > method. But the search, esp. for rishi hora

> source

> > > > must

> > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > kept

> > > > > > > > > > on.

> > > > > > > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > > > > > know of a compedium in vernacular which

> collates

> > > the

> > > > > best

> > > > > > > > (best

> > > > > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > compiler thought any particular aspect from a

> > > classic

> > > > > to

> > > > > > be)

> > > > > > > > > > > > available, which goes into this aspect (lord

> going

> > > to

> > > > > > > > different

> > > > > > > > > > > > houses) but there is no source mention for

the

> > > > portion

> > > > > > nor is

> > > > > > > > > > there

> > > > > > > > > > > > the Sanskrit original for it unlike most

other

> > > > portions

> > > > > > in the

> > > > > > > > > > > > compendium. Nevertheless the 'material' looks

> very

> > > > > > insightful

> > > > > > > > > > stuff.

> > > > > > > > > > > > It is things like this that I had in mind.

> Let's

> > > see.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Best,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > RK

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear RK ji,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > ==>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Now we have to agree on who next to

Parasara

> we

> > > > take

> > > > > on

> > > > > > > > board

> > > > > > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > > > > > > comparison. You have named two: Meenaraja

> Hora,

> > > and

> > > > > Hora

> > > > > > > > > > > Pradeepam.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Who else? We don't have to go by the

overall

> > > > > reputation

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > text.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > We may narrow down our selection to the

> aspect of

> > > > > > > > > > interpretation

> > > > > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > question in a treatise that may not

> otherwise be

> > > > > rated

> > > > > > very

> > > > > > > > > > high.

> > > > > > > > > > > What

> > > > > > > > > > > > > say?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > So who else? I mean which other

authority/-

> ies

> > > or

> > > > > > > > classics?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > <==

> > > > > > > > > > > > > This question is really difficult to

> answer.

> > > > Apart

> > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > > > Parasara

> > > > > > > > > > > > > (for whom various versions of the slokas

are

> > > > > available

> > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > same in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > almost all instances) Meena Raja Hora

> discusses

> > > it.

> > > > > The

> > > > > > > > > > statements

> > > > > > > > > > > > > from Meena Raja Hora is mentioned with

> utmost

> > > > > > importance in

> > > > > > > > > > Hora

> > > > > > > > > > > Ratna

> > > > > > > > > > > > > as well (at times they slightly variant

> versions

> > > > of

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > slokas

> > > > > > > > > > > > > available in current printed verion of

Meena

> raja

> > > > > > hora).

> > > > > > > > Hora

> > > > > > > > > > > > > pradeepam is a text quoted with reverance

by

> the

> > > > > auther

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > Hora

> > > > > > > > > > > Sara

> > > > > > > > > > > > > (i.e. Nrisimha Daivanjna), a well known

> scholar

> > > of

> > > > > 17th

> > > > > > > > > > century.

> > > > > > > > > > > Thus -

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Meenaraja hora gets double importance since

> > > > supported

> > > > > > by

> > > > > > > > Hora

> > > > > > > > > > > Ratna.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Hora Pradeepam gets double importance since

> > > > supported

> > > > > > by

> > > > > > > > Hora

> > > > > > > > > > > Sara.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Some other later day texts MIGHT have

> discussed

> > > > the

> > > > > > same at

> > > > > > > > > > times

> > > > > > > > > > > > > (though not extensively), but I am yet to

> make an

> > > > > > elaborate

> > > > > > > > > > > search for

> > > > > > > > > > > > > the same in texts like Sarvartha

Chintamani,

> > > Jataka

> > > > > > > > Parijata,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Saravali, Phaladeepika etc. One or two

> > > rudimentary

> > > > > > slokas

> > > > > > > > > > related

> > > > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > the same we may find in these texts as

well.

> Some

> > > > > slokas

> > > > > > > > > > relevant

> > > > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > the may find a place in many ancient Rishi

> horas

> > > > > > (Whereever

> > > > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > > > find

> > > > > > > > > > > > > such a reference I will quote them for

> sure). But

> > > > for

> > > > > > sure

> > > > > > > > none

> > > > > > > > > > > of the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > other texts (except BPHS, Meenaraja hora,

> Hora

> > > > > > Pradeepam)

> > > > > > > > > > > discusses

> > > > > > > > > > > > > this subject extensively in detail as per

my

> > > > current

> > > > > > > > knowledge

> > > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > understanding. As far as ancient texts

> (Rishi

> > > > horas)

> > > > > are

> > > > > > > > > > > concerned it

> > > > > > > > > > > > > is possible that the slokas that discuss

> this

> > > > subject

> > > > > > > > > > extensively

> > > > > > > > > > > are

> > > > > > > > > > > > > lost, even though they might have done the

> same

> > > > > (since

> > > > > > they

> > > > > > > > use

> > > > > > > > > > 7-

> > > > > > > > > > > fold

> > > > > > > > > > > > > method).

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Love,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In

> ,

> > > rk

> > > > > dash

> > > > > > > > > > > > > <arkaydash@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, you are homing in on the " pure "

> point.

> > > > That's

> > > > > > what

> > > > > > > > this

> > > > > > > > > > > > > particular aspect of interpretation of a

> chart is

> > > > > > about.

> > > > > > > > That's

> > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > way (the part-way) to go about it -- core

> task,

> > > > > > winkling the

> > > > > > > > > > > secrets

> > > > > > > > > > > > > out of a chart. Now we have to agree on who

> next

> > > > to

> > > > > > > > Parasara we

> > > > > > > > > > > take

> > > > > > > > > > > > > on board for comparision. You have named

> two:

> > > > > Meenaraja

> > > > > > > > Hora,

> > > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > Hora

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Pradeepam. Who else? We don't have to go by

> the

> > > > > overall

> > > > > > > > > > > reputation of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > the text. We may narrow down our selection

> to the

> > > > > > aspect of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > interpretation in question in a treatise

> that may

> > > > not

> > > > > > > > otherwise

> > > > > > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > rated very high. What say?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > So who else? I mean which other

authority/-

> ies

> > > or

> > > > > > > > classics?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sotto Voce: I don't want us, you and me,

> to be

> > > > > > cynosures

> > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > (the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > galaxy of) our star-gazers in this

> firmament.

> > > > > Onlookers

> > > > > > all?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > RK

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear RK ji,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are right - to the point. I agree.

But

> as

> > > far

> > > > > as

> > > > > > LL

> > > > > > > > going

> > > > > > > > > > > to H-7

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > is concerned, the special point

> regarding ' if

> > > LL

> > > > > is a

> > > > > > > > > > malefic'

> > > > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > mentioned in the sloka itself; there for

> we

> > > > cannot

> > > > > > > > discount

> > > > > > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > > > > as far

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > as the prediction related to the same

> given in

> > > > the

> > > > > > sloka

> > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > concerned.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > For other results regarding LL in H-7

> (which we

> > > > > would

> > > > > > > > discuss

> > > > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > detail as this discussion progresses) I

> agree

> > > > > > absolutely

> > > > > > > > with

> > > > > > > > > > > your

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > logic and argument.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > As far as LL in H-5 is concerned, I think

> there

> > > > > could

> > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > point

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mentioned under consideration (for BPHS

> > > > results)

> > > > > > even

> > > > > > > > > > though

> > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > same is NOT mentioned in the sloka. But

as

> you

> > > > have

> > > > > > > > clearly

> > > > > > > > > > > stated,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the normal expected result for the same

> SHOULD

> > > > > > > > BE ''susuta'

> > > > > > > > > > > (good

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > child, or birth of children). Let us keep

> this

> > > > > doubt

> > > > > > open

> > > > > > > > > > till

> > > > > > > > > > > we

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > cross verify the results with the

> derivations

> > > > given

> > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > other

> > > > > > > > > > > texts and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > come to a logical conclusion/derivation.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > We always have 2 options open to cross

> check

> > > the

> > > > > > results

> > > > > > > > > > > predicted

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > by BPHS in this context-

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) Cross verify the results with the

> > > predictions

> > > > > > given in

> > > > > > > > > > other

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > texts (especially Meenaraja Hora & Hora

> > > Pradeepam)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Compare the predicted results with

> actual

> > > > > results

> > > > > > > > observed.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > But still, the base rule as you pointed

> out is -

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What we are concerned at this stage of

> > > > > the 'ruling'

> > > > > > is:

> > > > > > > > L-1

> > > > > > > > > > > goes

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > H-5, L-1 goes to H-7 etc, other factors

> > > clearly

> > > > > > > > discounted.

> > > > > > > > > > > Clear?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <==

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > To state in other words, the base rule

is -

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > " LL going to H-1, H-2, H-3 etc ONLY

should

> be

> > > > > > considered,

> > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > other

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > factors (such as LL being

malefic/benefic,

> LL

> > > > being

> > > > > > > > aspected

> > > > > > > > > > by

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > malefic/benefic etc) should be clearly

> > > discounted "

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > We will even touch this base rule with

> > > > corollaries,

> > > > > > ONLY

> > > > > > > > WHEN

> > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > special condition is mentioned in the

> sloka

> > > > itself;

> > > > > > just

> > > > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > contaminate the result indicated by the

> sloka.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > If this corollary is not there, I agree

to

> your

> > > > > > statement

> > > > > > > > > > > completely.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Love,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In

> > > ,

> > > > rk

> > > > > > dash

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <arkaydash@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think we should keep out the factor

of

> L1

> > > > being

> > > > > a

> > > > > > > > natural

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > malefic -- the logic you have used for

> those

> > > > > outcomes

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > L-1

> > > > > > > > > > > going to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5th, 7th hse (death of first child,

> > > uninterested

> > > > in

> > > > > > > > life/wife

> > > > > > > > > > > etc). If

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > we must, then we have to qualify the

> deduction,

> > > > > > > > saying " where

> > > > > > > > > > L-

> > > > > > > > > > > 5 (or

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > L-7) is a malefic or is afflicted " .

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What we are concerned at this stage of

> > > > > the 'ruling'

> > > > > > is:

> > > > > > > > L-1

> > > > > > > > > > > goes

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > H-5, L-1 goes to H-7 etc, other factors

> clearly

> > > > > > > > discounted.

> > > > > > > > > > > Clear?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let's carry on,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RK

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear RK ji,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your concerns are right - important

> points

> > > > > > mentioned.

> > > > > > > > Let

> > > > > > > > > > us

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > together try to find out the reasons

> based on

> > > > our

> > > > > > logic.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When in 1st : Uncertain in decision

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lagna lord in lagna gives the native

all

> the

> > > > good

> > > > > > > > qualities

> > > > > > > > > > > such as

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > compassion, kindness, softness of mind,

> > > > emotional

> > > > > > > > approach

> > > > > > > > > > > etc.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Result? Uncertainty in decision. I

think

> this

> > > > > > account

> > > > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > logical

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > basis of the above derivation.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When in 2nd: Many wives

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is just natural. 2nd and 11th

house

> > > > signify

> > > > > > second

> > > > > > > > > > > marriage.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When the lagna lord comes in contact

> with any

> > > > > house

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > native is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sure to get the results related to

that.

> > > Lagna

> > > > > lord

> > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > 2nd

> > > > > > > > > > > house

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > makes the native beautiful, talkative,

> liked

> > > by

> > > > > > women

> > > > > > > > etc.

> > > > > > > > > > > Thus it

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > turns out that it is natural to have

> many

> > > > > relations

> > > > > > > > > > (wives).

> > > > > > > > > > > It

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > should be noted that for lagna lord in

> lagna,

> > > > and

> > > > > > lagna

> > > > > > > > > > lord

> > > > > > > > > > > in 2nd

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > house - 2 wives and many wives are

> derived -

> > > > NOT

> > > > > as

> > > > > > a

> > > > > > > > bad

> > > > > > > > > > > > result, but

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as a good result; indicating that the

> native

> > > > will

> > > > > > have

> > > > > > > > every

> > > > > > > > > > > > kind of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > luxury including women.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When in 3rd : Many kinds of wealth, 2

> wives

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Valorous - thus many kinds of wealth;

> 3rd is

> > > a

> > > > > house

> > > > > > > > > > usually

> > > > > > > > > > > is of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > MIXED nature indicating

> mixed/various/many

> > > > > results.

> > > > > > > > That is

> > > > > > > > > > > why the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > derivation 'Many kinds of wealth'. 2nd

> from

> > > > 2nd -

> > > > > > many

> > > > > > > > > > kinds

> > > > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wealth - i think this is why you doubt

> that

> > > it

> > > > > > could be

> > > > > > > > due

> > > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > bhavat

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > bhavam. 2 wives - i have no idea supply

> in

> > > this

> > > > > > regard.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When in 4th: Lust

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No idea as of now.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When in 5th: Angry, loss of the 1st

> child

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th, any affliction

> to it

> > > > can

> > > > > > affect

> > > > > > > > > > both

> > > > > > > > > > > 5th

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > house and lagna equally - making a

> double

> > > > impact.

> > > > > > That

> > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > why

> > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prediction 'loss of child'. Why 1st

> child -

> > > 5th

> > > > > > signify

> > > > > > > > 1st

> > > > > > > > > > > child

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > more i doubt. Possibly here Parasara

> deviates

> > > > a

> > > > > bit

> > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > conventional prediction owing to the

> > > > possibility

> > > > > > > > of 'double

> > > > > > > > > > > > impact' i

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > think. The standard prediction should

be

> (we

> > > > will

> > > > > > > > verify)

> > > > > > > > > > > gain of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > child, as you mentioned. (But first the

> child

> > > > > > should be

> > > > > > > > > > born

> > > > > > > > > > > for it

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to perish - this may make both the

> > > derivations

> > > > > > > > consistent)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When in 7th: Uninterested in worldly

> life

> > > and

> > > > > wife

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This applies only if lagna lord is a

> malefic.

> > > > > > Therefore

> > > > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > logically ok.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When in 12th: Good health

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No idea as of now.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Love,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In

> > > > ,

> > > > > rk

> > > > > > dash

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <arkaydash@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Good start. I agree. First

theoretical

> > > > > > consideration

> > > > > > > > then

> > > > > > > > > > > we test

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the rules against actual charts. Here's

> a

> > > small

> > > > > > > > beginning

> > > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > examination of lagna lord's bhavashraya

> phala

> > > > in

> > > > > > BHPH.

> > > > > > > > I'll

> > > > > > > > > > go

> > > > > > > > > > > > about

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it by first picking out those phala

> (results)

> > > > > which

> > > > > > are

> > > > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > > > > self-

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > evident. Here they are:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When in 1st

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Uncertain in decision

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When in 2nd

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Many wives

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When in 3rd

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Many kinds of wealth (bhavat

bhavam?),

> 2

> > > wives

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When in 4th

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lust

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When in 5th

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Angry, loss of the 1st child

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When in 7th

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Uninterested in worldly life and wife

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When in 12th

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Good health

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > These results are not easy to

discern,

> > > given

> > > > > the

> > > > > > first

> > > > > > > > > > > factor

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (the linkage of the the self to the

> > > department

> > > > > > > > represented

> > > > > > > > > > by

> > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > house the lagna lord tenants) and the

> > > sweeping

> > > > > good

> > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > > lagna lord

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > brings to the bhava it goes to. Take

its

> > > > > placement

> > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > 5th.

> > > > > > > > > > > Why loss

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of child at all? Most other works

> > > > > declare, 'susuta',

> > > > > > > > > > meaning

> > > > > > > > > > > good

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > progeny. I'll cite one such at a later

> stage

> > > > for

> > > > > > all

> > > > > > > > house

> > > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > > tenancy

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as far as 1st lord is concerned.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One more thing I'd like to think

aloud

> > > about.

> > > > > > Rule

> > > > > > > > says

> > > > > > > > > > > that any

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > lord that goes to a dusthana will bring

> > > > detriment

> > > > > > to the

> > > > > > > > > > > house the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > planet is lord of. Now how do we

> reconcile

> > > the

> > > > L1

> > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > 12th

> > > > > > > > > > > ensuring

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > good health? Will it take care of the

> > > attrition

> > > > > of

> > > > > > body

> > > > > > > > > > (12th

> > > > > > > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1st hse, ie body) without itself being

> > > subject

> > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > detriment?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RK

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear All,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The primary derivations for Lagna

lord

> in

> > > > > various

> > > > > > > > houses

> > > > > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > > > > per

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BPHS is given below. I invite all to

> start a

> > > > > > discussion

> > > > > > > > on

> > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > same.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > =================================

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As per BPHS, for Lagna lord in -

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lagna: healthy body, courageous,

> uncertain

> > > in

> > > > > > > > decisions,

> > > > > > > > > > 2

> > > > > > > > > > > wives

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2nd house: knowledgeable, good

> earnings,

> > > > > > happiness,

> > > > > > > > good

> > > > > > > > > > > habits,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > righteous, many wives, good qualities.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3rd house: valorous like a lion, all

> kinds

> > > > of

> > > > > > wealth,

> > > > > > > > 2

> > > > > > > > > > > wives,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > intelligent.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4th house: love and affection from

> healthy

> > > > > mother

> > > > > > with

> > > > > > > > > > good

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > longevity, many brothers/sisters, lust,

> > > beauty

> > > > > and

> > > > > > good

> > > > > > > > > > > qualities.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5th house: angry, moderate happiness

> from

> > > > > > children,

> > > > > > > > loss

> > > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > first

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > born (child), admired by government and

> > > > > authorities.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6th house: (especially if aspected by

> > > > malefics)

> > > > > > > > trouble

> > > > > > > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > enemies, bad health.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 7th house: (especially if Lagna lord

> is a

> > > > > > malefic) his

> > > > > > > > > > wife

> > > > > > > > > > > will

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > die early (or married life will not go

> long),

> > > > he

> > > > > > will

> > > > > > > > > > become

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > uninterested in worldly life and wife,

> will

> > > be

> > > > > > detached

> > > > > > > > > > > towards his

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > native land and wander/visit many

> places, It

> > > is

> > > > > > possible

> > > > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > > he

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > won't be much wealthy (he would be a

> poor

> > > man)

> > > > or

> > > > > > also

> > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > he

> > > > > > > > > > > > would

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > be a very wealthy person like a king.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 8th house: master of some branch of

> > > > knowledge,

> > > > > > > > troubled

> > > > > > > > > > by

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > diseases, interested in others wives,

> will be

> > > > > > > > interested in

> > > > > > > > > > > all

> > > > > > > > > > > > kinds

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of games such as cards, chess, dice,

> lottery

> > > > and

> > > > > so

> > > > > > on,

> > > > > > > > > > very

> > > > > > > > > > > much

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > angry.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 9th house: lucky, loved by the

public,

> > > > devotee

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > > Vishnu,

> > > > > > > > > > > > master of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > words and oratory, will have good

wealth

> wife

> > > > and

> > > > > > > > children.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house: admired by government and

> > > people

> > > > in

> > > > > > power

> > > > > > > > > > (the

> > > > > > > > > > > native

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > will have a good job), he would be a

> > > government

> > > > > > servant,

> > > > > > > > > > very

> > > > > > > > > > > much

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > popular.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 11th house: much income from many

> sources,

> > > > good

> > > > > > > > > > popularity

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (popularity due to good deeds,

> celebrity),

> > > good

> > > > > > > > qualities,

> > > > > > > > > > > many

> > > > > > > > > > > > wives.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 12th house: good health, extravagant

> > > without

> > > > > > reason,

> > > > > > > > > > angry

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (especially if not benefics are present

> in

> > > 12th

> > > > > and

> > > > > > if

> > > > > > > > no

> > > > > > > > > > > benefic

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > aspects 12th)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > =================================

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Love,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In

> > > > > ,

> > > > > > manju

> > > > > > > > > > > chawla

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <manjuch2001@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank You Sreenadhji

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > we would learn this subject in this

> > > way.You

> > > > > are

> > > > > > > > really

> > > > > > > > > > > > helping us

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > God bless you

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > manju

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh sreesog@ wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear All,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let us start a new discussion on

the

> > > > > > subject " What

> > > > > > > > > > should

> > > > > > > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > predicted for Lagna lord in Various

> > > > houses? " -

> > > > >

> > > > > > let

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > discussion

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > go

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > first and then comparison of it

with

> > > actual

> > > > > > results.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Love,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " I am careful not to confuse

> excellence

> > > with

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > perfection,Excellence-I can reach

> > > > for,Perfection

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > > God's

> > > > > > > > > > > > business---

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Michael J.Fox

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ready for the edge of your seat?

> Check

> > > out

> > > > > > > > tonight's top

> > > > > > > > > > > > picks on

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > TV.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Get the freedom to save as many mails

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> > > you

> > > > > > wish.

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> > > > > > > > > > > here to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > know how.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Get the freedom to save as many mails

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> you

> > > > > wish.

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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Try the revolutionary next-gen

> Mail.

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>

September 21, 2007

Dear Sreenadh ji

The three stages of study strategy is a guideline for all including

me.I guess this is the appraoch that you have gained through your

valauable experience with numerous teachers hailing from uncorrupted

Parampara.

Hope more example charts will be discussed with Sthana,Bhava and

Kheta and Vargas of Rashis as advised by sages in umpteen classical

texts.

Thanks

Pradeep

, " Sreenadh "

<sreesog wrote:

>

> Dear Paraddep ji,

> Good to see your comments.

> ==>

> > As i am writing a paper on this ..

> <==

> We would love to see the same, once the same is completed, if you

> permit us to.

> ==>

> > All of us are happy that your initiatives and our collective

> > efforts will take us towards the shore of TRUTH

> <==

> Phew...! How daring on this humble soul...! " Shore of

truth " !!....

> don't make me afraid....I am a coward, you know....

> OK. Even if not to the shore of truth, at least a systematic

> understanding of ancient astrology will result I hope..

> Yes, Bhava is important. Bhavayati tat bhavam (What ever we think

of

> it, it becomes that). Bhavas in astrology is no different - What

ever

> we want to think about the whole chart becomes that!

> Now some general talk about our study strategies.

> Stage -1

> ========

> Usually as per our 7-fold terminology we use the words such

as 'Sign

> based predation, House based prediction, Planet based prediction

> etc'; But it does not sound good in English. I suggest better we

> should start using the terms such as -

> 1. Sign Base (Stanato)

> 2. House Base (Bhavata)

> 3. Planet Base (Khetai)

> 4. Sign-House Base (Stana-Bhava)

> 5. House-Planet Base (Bhava-Khechara)

> 6. Sign-Planet Base (Stana-Kheta)

> 7. Sign-House-Planet Base (Stana-Bhava-Nabhascharai)

> For as translation of the Sanskrit terms given in bracket. Using

the

> word 'Base' instead of 'Based' sounds good, I feel. A detailed

> discussion of the above 7 and its sub-rules involved completes

> our " fundamentals of ancient indian astrology " . This will complete

> our target 'stage -1'

> Stage -2

> ========

> The first advanced section [secondary certification ] would be -

> 1. Use of Dwadasa (12) Varga and Shad (6) Vargas [12 Divisions &

6

> Vargadhipas]

> 2. Planetary Aspect (Graha Drishti) results

> 3. Special Yogas

> 4. Dasa and Gochara

> 5. Prasna in Detail (Ashta mangala Prasna)

> Stage -3

> ========

> In our advanced studies we will try to cover all the other areas

> such as-

> 1. Mundane Astrology, Muhoorta, Varsha phala, Derivation of

results

> for countries and places.

> 2. Different schools and their unique methodologies (Arha,

> BPHS/Jaimini, Yavana, Tajika etc)

> 3. Any other concept any one want to discuss.

>

> Any one who is involved in our current learning efforts can

consider

> this as a simple outline of our study strategy. Even if we divert

a

> bit here and there - we have to come back to this, and learn the

> system from the base in detail. Many has followed many other paths

> and shortcuts but for no avail. That is the fundamental reason for

> our going back to the original and the effort for restructuring

the

> same - the effort to re-establish the ancient original authentic

> system.

> I would like to generalize your question -

>

> If 7-fold methodology is not understood then what do we understand

in

> Jyotish? (Bhava or House Base derivation is just a part of it). If

> not even the fundamentals are not correctly understood what can we

> do?

> Our effort is to negate this question, and make us efficient

enough

> to say with confidence - Yes, we DO know the fundamentals! We DO

know

> how to use the 7-fold system of astrology!

>

> Note: The current era is of people who say 'We know' without

knowing

> a bit - beware of them!

>

> Love,

> Sreenadh

>

> --- In

, " vijayadas_pradeep "

> <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Shri Sreenadh

> >

> > It is well written regarding Bhava chintha and Bhava Bhava

> chinta.It

> > will take a considerable number of years in ones life time to

> > understand Bhava and Bhava-Bhava vichinthanam.When we are not

> > prepared for the HOLISTIC apparoach we go for workarounds and

> > compartmentalisations,which will leave us in compartments

without

> > leading us to unified Truths.

> >

> > One should think why Rashi Tulya Navamsha is called BHAVA-AMSHA

or

> > Bhava Suchaka Navamsha.Here we are seeing in which Bhava(always

in

> > Rashi chakra as 12 Rashis represent 12 Bhavas) the navamsha is

> > falling.It is a SUCHAKA or indicator on the Bhava on to which

the

> > navamsha is falling.

> >

> > Why is navamsha Tulya rashi not having any Bhavas or such

suchakas?

> >

> > As i am writing a paper on this ,and as enough has been

> said,details

> > are not being touched.

> >

> > All of us are happy that your initiatives and our collective

> efforts

> > will take us towards the shore of TRUTH.If BHAVA is not

understood

> > then what do we understand in Jyotish?

> >

> > Regds

> > Pradeep

> >

> > , " Sreenadh "

> > <sreesog@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear RK ji,

> > > ==>

> > > > Even 6th-and-11th and 10th-and-7th fall in the category.

> > > <==

> > > Yes - the complete list is -

> > > • For 1st, 1st (1st from 1st) is very important

> > > • For 2nd, 3rd (2nd from 2nd) is very important

> > > • For 3rd, 5th (3rd from 3rd) is very important

> > > • For 4th, 7th (4th from 4th) is very important

> > > • For 5th, 9th (5th from 5th ) is very important

> > > • For 6th, 11th (6th from 6th) is very important

> > > • For 7th, 1st (7th from 7th ) is very important

> > > • For 8th, 3rd (8th from 8th ) is very important

> > > • For 9th, 5th (9th from 9th ) is very important

> > > • For 10th, 7th (10th from 10th ) is very important

> > > • For 11th, 9th (11th from 11th ) is very important

> > > • For 12th, 11th (12th from 12th ) is very important

> > >

> > > [Note that All the odd houses - 1st, 3rd, 5th, 7th, 9th & 11

th

> > are

> > > gaining double importance in this list]

> > > ==>

> > > It's one thing to read progeny from 9th because 9th is 5

houses

> > away

> > > from 5th, and another to read enemy from 11th 'coz it is 6

houses

> > away

> > > from 6th. One thing to read spouse from 7th and another to

move 7

> > > houses from 7th and read the same from there.

> > > <==

> > > The point is " It is NOT reading the SAME, but reading the

> > DETAILS " .

> > > The paired house (given above) has MAXIMUM INFLUENCE on DETAILS

> > > concerning that prime significance. It is the confusion

regarding

> > the

> > > 'Same' that causes you to argue on the above lines.

> > > Ofcouse 11th can gives us much details in 'Bhavat Bhava

Chinta';

> > But

> > > please don't confuce it with 'Bhava Chinta' where 6th only

> > signifies

> > > enemy and NOT 11th. 'Bhava Chinta' and 'Bhavat Bhava Chinta'

are

> > two

> > > methods/thought-tools.

> > > ==>

> > > > The 1st and 11th where individuals (relatives) are concerned

> > remain

> > > irrefragable, because reiteration will cause chaos.

> > > <==

> > > In astrology instead of compartmentalization and

classification,

> > > holistic approach and integration gains importance at the

end.

> > The

> > > ppl gets struck up in the first method term the second as

chaos.

> > The

> > > astrologer is 'Ooha-Apoha Patu' meaning -

> > > 1. First he uses analytical/classification methods to derive

> prime

> > > results. (This is termed 'Ooha'; This is the analytical

> approach).

> > For

> > > example. some malefic influence in 4th, then he knows that

> > something

> > > bad should be predicted derived for mother.

> > > 2. Second, he uses the holistic/integration approach to

confirm

> > and

> > > derive details (secondary results). (This is termed 'Apoha';

This

> > is

> > > holistic approach). For example, Some influence on 4th from

4th,

> > > Something about Mo, some other combinations in chart indicate

> > > something related to Mother; In essence a multitude of houses

and

> > > planets start speaking about the mother! The astrologer see

this,

> > the

> > > conclusion is being drawn by his consciousness (No, he is NOT

> doing

> > > it, but rather he REFLECTS it; even though his total

understanding

> > > about methodologies becomes the fuel, the fire is the

integrated

> > > nature of consciousness itself). Yah, this second face will

feel

> > like

> > > chaos to those who strictly stick to the fragmented first

> approach

> > alone.

> > > Astrology gives equal importance to both these strategies

> > Analytical

> > > & Holistic (Ooha & Apoha). It is not that Analytical is more

> > important

> > > or that Holistic is more important; Both of them are equally

> > > important. Analytical approach is the base (because of the

> > fragmented

> > > nature of human mind) and Holistic approach is the culmination

> > > (because of the integrated nature of the consciousness).

> > > I don't know to what extend I have succeeded in conveying the

> > idea, I

> > > want to convey. Yes, this though process is part of 'Bhava

> Chinta'

> > and

> > > 'Bhavat Bhava' chinta as well. In a way you can consider 'Bhava

> > > Chinta' as part of analytical, and 'Bhava Bhava Chinta' as

part of

> > > holistic providing details. As a whole together they reflect

the

> > whole.

> > > ==>

> > > > I think we'll have to turn to verification of this aspect

of

> > b.b.

> > > from actual charts, at a later stage.

> > > <==

> > > Yes, we have to and we will.

> > > Love and Hugs,

> > > Sreenadh

> > >

> > > , rk dash

> > > <arkaydash@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Yes, Sreenadh,

> > > >

> > > > Even 6th-and-11th and 10th-and-7th fall in the category.

But,

> > and

> > > this is a 'nice' but, my contention is: not lock stock and

barrel.

> > > Particularly where relatives are concerned we better leave the

> > > incompatible signifcations out of the reiteration in these

> > > house-pairs. It's one thing to read progeny from 9th because

9th

> > is 5

> > > houses away from 5th, and another to read enemy from 11th 'coz

it

> > is 6

> > > houses away from 6th. One thing to read spouse from 7th and

> > another to

> > > move 7 houses from 7th and read the same from there. Our

> > derivations

> > > would then be: 7th is spouse, 1st is spouse, not self. And

one's

> > > father's co-borns would be one's enemies.

> > > >

> > > > The 1st and 11th where inidviduals (relatives) are concerned

> > remain

> > > irrefragable, because reiteration will cause choas.

> > > >

> > > > Reminds me of a similar rule in arudha determination. When

the

> > > lord of a house is 7 houses away from that house, you know the

> > arudha

> > > does not move 7 house away from the lord's position.

> > > >

> > > > I think we'll have to turn to verification of this aspect

of

> > b.b.

> > > from actual charts, at a later stage.

> > > >

> > > > Your turn.

> > > > RK

> > > >

> > > > Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > > Dear RK ji,

> > > > 1) Malefic affliction simultaneously of 4th & 7th (4th from

> > 4th):

> > > > harms mother

> > > > In similar lines -

> > > > 2) Malefic affliction simultaneously of 3rd & 5th (3rd from

> > 3rd):

> > > > harms younger co-born (brother or sister)

> > > > Yes, BB is one of the major rules in operation here that

helps

> > us

> > > > draw this conclusion. I don't any confusion is involved in

it.

> > This

> > > > is a rule applicable everywhere. You should not that out of

all

> > the

> > > > 12 houses from any house, well being of the house with the

same

> > > > number gains maximum importance. For example –

> > > > · For 4th, 7th (4th from 4th) is very important

> > > > · For 5th , 9th (5th from 5th ) is very important

> > > > · For 7th, Lagna (7th from 7th ) is very important

> > > > · For 8th , 3rd (8th from 8th ) is very important

> > > > · For 9th, 5th (9th from 9th ) is very important and so

on.

> > > >

> > > > Proceed with your argument and clarification.

> > > > Love,

> > > > Sreenadh

> > > >

> > > > , rk dash

> > > > <arkaydash@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Sreenadh,

> > > > >

> > > > > Yesterday I said, another day.

> > > > >

> > > > > Malefic afflication simultanously of 4th & 7th harms

mother.

> > And

> > > > you say that is due to b.b., not anything else. Fine. Now

tell

> > me

> > > > whether affliction of 3rd as well as 5th will persuade us to

> > read an

> > > > affliction of two co-born houses -- namely, 3rd and 3rd from

> > 3rd,

> > > > which is 5th?

> > > > > Would you read extended 3rd-ness (the extended theme of

> > sibling)

> > > > from 5th?

> > > > > Promising to relieve you of the double jeopardy.

> > > > >

> > > > > RK

> > > > >

> > > > > Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > > > Dear Sairam ji,

> > > > > Good Morning. You are right.

> > > > > Houses (Bhava) - are directly related to Native - Prime

> > > > significance.

> > > > > House to House - are directly related to House and

indirectly

> > to

> > > > > native - Secondary significance; Details of items

indicated

> by

> > > > > Primary significance.

> > > > >

> > > > > Eg _1:

> > > > > 4th : Mother.

> > > > > Houses from 4th house: Details of Mother.

> > > > >

> > > > > Eg _2:

> > > > > 4th : Native House.

> > > > > Houses from 4th house: Details of Native House.

> > > > >

> > > > > Eg _3:

> > > > > 2th : Face.

> > > > > Houses from 2th house: Details of Face.

> > > > >

> > > > > Yes, 'Bhavat Bhavam' is one of the straight forward, well

> > known,

> > > > > fundamental rule used for result derivation.

> > > > > Love,

> > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > >

> > > > > , sairam

nat

> > > > > <sairaman53@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Sairaman

> > > > > >

> > > > > > goodmorning all members

> > > > > >

> > > > > > re garding bhavathvam i have something to ay

> > > > > >

> > > > > > there aretwo divisions in astrology like a coin 2 sides

> > > > > >

> > > > > > one that isdirectly connected to lagna like education

> > sickness

> > > > > accidents etc

> > > > > >

> > > > > > we cannot a proxy for our thirst sleep for job education

> etc

> > > > unless

> > > > > we go to job personally work there we cannot salary

> > > > > >

> > > > > > a vechicle money property may owned by any enjoyed by

others

> > > > > >

> > > > > > the lagna sufferes any thing connected to 8and 12th

houswe

> > of

> > > > lagna

> > > > > rest ofthe bhavas from the bhavams do not much affect the

> > native as

> > > > > such for eg

> > > > > >

> > > > > > if 10th lord in 5th it is 8th of 10th it is no away

affects

> > the

> > > > > native as the 5th 9th etc are verygood bhava for the

native

> > from

> > > > the

> > > > > lagna whever lagna suffers the native suffers

> > > > > >

> > > > > > so connecting each bhava to other may not affect the

> > > > lagnathipathi

> > > > > the native is not affected much

> > > > > >

> > > > > > education sleep enjoyment happniness the state of mind

> > thirst

> > > > > hunger etc etc all the individual 3enjoys cannot be

> transfered

> > to

> > > > > others

> > > > > >

> > > > > > i have my 10th lord saturn in my 5th house i have much

> > worrying

> > > > > many years back after experience i have come to conclusion

it

> > never

> > > > > affected me i have good job well respected by boss going

well

> > for

> > > > > past 34 years with some good changes for betterment well

> > > > experienced

> > > > > in so many different fields in job i am so happy as the

5th

> > house

> > > > is

> > > > > houe of poorvapunya all my big bosses so intimately

> personally

> > > > > attached to me with good affection and love

> > > > > >

> > > > > > bhavath bhavam is a very good concept however while

> > expecting

> > > > > results as such

> > > > > >

> > > > > > thank y all with my wishes and regards

> > > > > >

> > > > > > rk dash <arkaydash@> wrote:

> > > > > > Dear Sunil, Lalit Saab, Sreenadh and friends,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > My bit. Bhavat bhavam is an operator of a rule, thus has

> its

> > > > > ambit. And I expect we all know it. If we push it beyond

the

> > ambit,

> > > > > the outcome will be illogic. Lalit Saab is right. 4th

being

> > 12th

> > > > from

> > > > > 5th should by bhavat bhavam logic cause attrition to/ take

> > away

> > > > from

> > > > > 5th. The same would go for 9th w.r.t. 10th. But nothing

> > untoward

> > > > > happens to 10th if, for example, its lord goes to 9th. My

> > personal

> > > > > experience, really personal, says nothing untoward

happens. I

> > have

> > > > > come across interpretation which expounds retirement from

> 9th.

> > Yes,

> > > > > in the former pair, the maximus that can happen is

children

> > (or one

> > > > > of them) may live away from the ancestral home of the

native.

> > I

> > > > know

> > > > > of at least one such chart.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > So, don't we know where bhavat bhavam holds, where it

holds

> > not?

> > > > > We do. But justificatory haste puts paid to sound

derivation.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Sreenaadh, in your file, have you also taken care of the

> > goof

> > > > > that 7th is 4th from 3rd and about a page's wonderment as

to

> > how to

> > > > > reconcile self's mother and coborn's? 7th is 4th from 4th,

> > ergo it

> > > > > reduplicates some of the significations of 4th. Mind you,

not

> > all

> > > > of

> > > > > them. And the one that is not is '4th as mother'. Yes, 4th

as

> > > > asset,

> > > > > etc is mirrored by 7th. Bhavat bhavam in 7th (4th from

4th)

> > cannot

> > > > > clash with turya (source) of 4th, with 4th as mother. 7th -

-

> > that

> > > > > which confronts you, the other that you interact with --

is

> > > > PRIMARILY

> > > > > & IRREFRAGABLY spouse, partner and the like, so 'mother'

> > > > > reduplication drops off.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > We'll try to be lively but unerring.

> > > > > > RK

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > > > > Dear Lalit ji,

> > > > > > It is inside the folder named " Sreenadh " . But I am yet

to

> > upload

> > > > > the

> > > > > > updated file, I will try to do it by today evening.

> > > > > > Love,

> > > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > > >

> > > > > > --- In

, " litsol "

> > > > > > <mishra.lalit@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Srinadh.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I didn't see this document in the file section, can u

> tell

> > me

> > > > in

> > > > > > what

> > > > > > > folder this pdf is there.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > regards,

> > > > > > > Lalit.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > --- In

> > , " Sreenadh "

> > > > > > > <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dear Lalit ji,

> > > > > > > > It is applicable everywhere. I have already address

> this

> > > > doubt

> > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > detail in my modified document on " Lagna lord in

> various

> > > > > > > houses.pdf "

> > > > > > > > file. So I will spare my energy - not trying to

explain

> > it

> > > > > here. I

> > > > > > > > will try to upload the document possibly by today

> > evening

> > > > > > itself.

> > > > > > > > Love,

> > > > > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > --- In

> , " litsol "

> > > > > > > > <mishra.lalit@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Sunil Ji,

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > I had doubts, i m trying to put forth like this -

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Can we apply this logic to 4'th and 5'th houses,

4'th

> > being

> > > > > > 12'th

> > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > 5'th should denote some kind of loss to 5'th

house,

> > that i

> > > > > > think

> > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > not true.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Same is relation between 3'rd and 11'th, 3'rd is

6'th

> > from

> > > > > > 11'th,

> > > > > > > > > 3'rd might be complementary to 11'th but not the

> > contrary.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Like if one does efforts, he will have gains.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > regards,

> > > > > > > > > Lalit.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > --- In

> > , " sunil

> > > > nair "

> > > > > > > > > <astro_tellerkerala@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Hare rama krishna,

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > dear lalit ,

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > The upachayas are 3,6,10,11 and 6 is both

> > > > > > > dustana

> > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > upachaya,Upachaya houses are supposed to be

houses

> > of

> > > > free

> > > > > > will

> > > > > > > u

> > > > > > > > > can

> > > > > > > > > > execute in this life concerned with that bhava

and

> > also

> > > > > > known

> > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > > houses

> > > > > > > > > > of growth .That is why generaly says planets in

> > upachaya

> > > > > > gives

> > > > > > > good

> > > > > > > > > > results .

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Now let us take 2nd house and its upachaya

houses.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > 4th house being 3rd from 2nd ( house of family

or

> > kutumba

> > > > > > > where

> > > > > > > > > one

> > > > > > > > > > born or even this place is to see kula devata

> > according

> > > > to

> > > > > > > prashna

> > > > > > > > > > maaraga) ,7th house being 6th from 2nd house

(house

> > of

> > > > > > > > > > marriage,partnership and even how we interact

with

> > out

> > > > side

> > > > > > > world

> > > > > > > > > also

> > > > > > > > > > madhana bhava and yatra bhava) ,and 11th house

> being

> > 10th

> > > > > > from

> > > > > > > 2nd

> > > > > > > > > house

> > > > > > > > > > ( house of all kinf of gains and

incomes ,frnds,and

> > even

> > > > > our

> > > > > > > elder

> > > > > > > > > > siblings) and the 12th house ( the house of

> > expenditure

> > > > and

> > > > > > > loses

> > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > even our house of bed room pleasures ) ,

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Now if we apply logic we can see all this houses

> has

> > a

> > > > > great

> > > > > > > say in

> > > > > > > > > > accumulation of money which is one of the

> > characteristics

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > 2nd

> > > > > > > > > house.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > waiting comments from all scholars and members.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > regrds sunil nair.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > om shreem mahalaxmai namah.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > --- In

> > , " litsol "

> > > > > > > > > > <mishra.lalit@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I agree to this point to some extent, It's not

> > always a

> > > > > > good

> > > > > > > try

> > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > understand one house on the basis of how far

it

> is

> > from

> > > > > > some

> > > > > > > > > house,

> > > > > > > > > > > there are only 12 houses, so each and every

house

> > comes

> > > > > > n'th

> > > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > > > 1'st to 12'th from remaining houses.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Better way of understanding the houses is

trying

> > to

> > > > > > > understand

> > > > > > > > > basic

> > > > > > > > > > > charactersitic like if upchaya say 3rd house,

why

> > 3'rd

> > > > is

> > > > > > an

> > > > > > > > > upachaya

> > > > > > > > > > > etc. and then learning trikonas like dharma

> > trikona,

> > > > > Bhoga

> > > > > > > trikona

> > > > > > > > > > > etc.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > Lalit.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > --- In

,

> > rk dash

> > > > > > > > > > > arkaydash@ wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh,

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, I think so. They probably are from the

> > Meenaraj

> > > > > > > > > > > Hora/Horapradeepam sources now that I get to

see

> > your

> > > > PDF

> > > > > > > file.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > What I meant when I said: " Examples will of

> > course

> > > > pour

> > > > > > in.

> > > > > > > But

> > > > > > > > > > > we have to

> > > > > > > > > > > > see where a particular result is flowing

from --

>

> > from

> > > > > L1

> > > > > > in

> > > > > > > a

> > > > > > > > > > > > particular hse, or other planet/lords'

> > configuration "

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > this.

> > > > > > > > > When

> > > > > > > > > > > we take up example charts (and we haven't come

to

> > that

> > > > as

> > > > > > > yet), we

> > > > > > > > > > > have to be careful not to confuse any

particular

> > > > > experience

> > > > > > > > > emanating

> > > > > > > > > > > from other configurations/patterns and a

> > bhavashraya

> > > > > phala

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > a

> > > > > > > > > house

> > > > > > > > > > > lord. That is how we correctly validate the

> > derivation

> > > > in

> > > > > > > slokas.

> > > > > > > > > We

> > > > > > > > > > > all know what drama the 'yogaja phala' can

> > introduce in

> > > > a

> > > > > > > chart.

> > > > > > > > > The

> > > > > > > > > > > task is arduous; it requires rigours. I was

doing

> > some

> > > > > loud

> > > > > > > > > thinking

> > > > > > > > > > > on the methodological rigours staring at us,

in

> > advance.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > I went thru your PDF file. Umm, I would say

> some

> > of

> > > > > your

> > > > > > > logic

> > > > > > > > > > > searches overshoot themselves. Take this one.

The

> > > > result

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > wealth

> > > > > > > > > > > with lagna lord in 4th house. You say, 4th is

3rd

> > from

> > > > > 2nd,

> > > > > > ie

> > > > > > > > > > > upachaya from 2nd, which is how. Not very

elegant

> > as a

> > > > > > > rationale.

> > > > > > > > > The

> > > > > > > > > > > reason, to my mind, is the wealth of

> > siginfications the

> > > > > 4th

> > > > > > > hse

> > > > > > > > > > > holds -- house, vehicle and what have you.

Now,

> > > > applying

> > > > > > your

> > > > > > > > > well-

> > > > > > > > > > > plucked Rule Four, which says lagna lord

> amplifies

> > (the

> > > > > > > goodness

> > > > > > > > > of)

> > > > > > > > > > > the house it goes to, the logic behind wealth

is

> > valid.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > I do like your Rule reminders. Commendable.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Best,

> > > > > > > > > > > > RK

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > PS: I will take your hugs when we proceed

> > > > on 'sustained

> > > > > > > topics'

> > > > > > > > > > > in a more organised fashion...

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh sreesog@ wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > Dear RK ji,

> > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks. The derivations given are good - and

> > looks as

> > > > > if

> > > > > > > solely

> > > > > > > > > > > > based on " Houses " alone.

> > > > > > > > > > > > ==>

> > > > > > > > > > > > Now, the rationale. Examples will of course

> pour

> > in.

> > > > > But

> > > > > > we

> > > > > > > > > have to

> > > > > > > > > > > > see where a particular result is flowing

from --

>

> > from

> > > > > L1

> > > > > > in

> > > > > > > a

> > > > > > > > > > > > particular hse, or other planet/lords'

> > configuration.

> > > > > You

> > > > > > > agree?

> > > > > > > > > > > > <==

> > > > > > > > > > > > Apart from houses, I don't think anything

such

> > as

> > > > > > > Planet/lords

> > > > > > > > > etc

> > > > > > > > > > > > comes in to play in the derivations you

> provided.

> > > > > > > > > > > > *Lord are of Signs; Houses does not have any

> > lords -

> > > > > and

> > > > > > so

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > same

> > > > > > > > > > > > is discarded.

> > > > > > > > > > > > * Planets are not at all considered in house

> > based

> > > > > > > derivation -

> > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > so the same is discarded.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > I ascertain, the derivations are solely

based

> on

> > > > > houses,

> > > > > > > and so

> > > > > > > > > > > > should be the logic behind. Yah, RK ji, you

can

> > > > proceed

> > > > > > with

> > > > > > > > > > > > explaining the logic behid each of those

> > > > > derivations...

> > > > > > > > > > > > Love and Hugs,

> > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > --- In

> ,

> > rk

> > > > dash

> > > > > > > > > > > > <arkaydash@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Shreenadh,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Here is the bhavashraya phala of L1 as

found

> > in the

> > > > > > > compedium.

> > > > > > > > > > > > There is an 'result' for the 5th hse, but

I 'll

> > take

> > > > > time

> > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > make

> > > > > > > > > > > out

> > > > > > > > > > > > what is meant.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > In 1st house

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Healthy, long-lived, king(ly), strong,

gain

> of

> > land

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > 2nd hse

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Wealthy, engaged in right action, head of

the

> > > > > locality,

> > > > > > > life

> > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > > plenty, corpulent

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > 3rd hse

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Has good friends, religiosity, generosity;

> > brave,

> > > > > strong

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > 4th hse

> > > > > > > > > > > > > King's favourite, lives life to the full

> > (could

> > > > also

> > > > > > > > > mean 'very

> > > > > > > > > > > > long-lived,' the expression being prachura-

> > jivita),

> > > > > earns

> > > > > > > by

> > > > > > > > > right

> > > > > > > > > > > > means, devoted to father, voracious

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > 5th hse

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Good children, engaged in good deeds, has

> > humility,

> > > > > > known

> > > > > > > his

> > > > > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > > > > > good qualities

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > 6th hse

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Healthy, strong, gain of land, miserly,

rich,

> > > > subdues

> > > > > > > > > enemies, on

> > > > > > > > > > > > the side of good deeds

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > 7th hse

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Brilliant, good manners, cultured wife,

> spends

> > > > > himself

> > > > > > > fast

> > > > > > > > > > > > during coitus, good-looking

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > 8th hse

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Miserly, unreliable in financial matters,

> very

> > long-

> > > > > > > lived,

> > > > > > > > > harsh

> > > > > > > > > > > > in speech if the planet is a malefic, large

> > physique

> > > > if

> > > > > a

> > > > > > > > > benefic

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > 9th hse

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Good people are his friends, good deeds,

> > balanced

> > > > > > (without

> > > > > > > > > > > > extremes), cultured, known for his good

deeds,

> > > > brilliant

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th hse

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Gains from ruler (state), learned,

cultured,

> > > > reverent

> > > > > > > towards

> > > > > > > > > > > > guru and mother, king, famous

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > 11th hse

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Long-lived, has progeny, spends himself

fast

> > during

> > > > > > > coitus,

> > > > > > > > > > > > powerful

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > 12th hse

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Harsh speech, very sharp mind, goes

abroad, a

> > free

> > > > > > loader

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Now, the rationale. Examples will of couse

> > pour in.

> > > > > But

> > > > > > > we

> > > > > > > > > have

> > > > > > > > > > > > to see where a particular result is flowing

> > from --

> > > > > from

> > > > > > L1

> > > > > > > in a

> > > > > > > > > > > > particular hse, or other planet/lords'

> > configuration.

> > > > > You

> > > > > > > agree?

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > RK

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear RK ji,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > ==>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > I know of a compendium in vernacular which

> > collates

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > best

> > > > > > > > > > > (best

> > > > > > > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > > > > > > the compiler thought any particular aspect

> > from a

> > > > > > classic

> > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > be)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > available, which goes into this aspect

(lord

> > going

> > > > to

> > > > > > > > > different

> > > > > > > > > > > > houses)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > <==

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you provide the results

derived/provided

> > by

> > > > that

> > > > > > book

> > > > > > > > > > > for " lagna

> > > > > > > > > > > > > lord going to various houses " ? That could

be

> > much

> > > > > > > beneficial

> > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > our

> > > > > > > > > > > > > current study - we will try to find the

logic

> > used

> > > > > > behind

> > > > > > > > > those

> > > > > > > > > > > > > derivations, and accept or reject each of

> > those

> > > > > > > derivations;

> > > > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > > > > > usual

> > > > > > > > > > > > > based on conditions such as -

> > > > > > > > > > > > > * logical or not

> > > > > > > > > > > > > * Real life experience supports the same

or

> not

> > > > > > > > > > > > > It doesn't matter whether the source

mention

> > or the

> > > > > > > Sanskrit

> > > > > > > > > > > > original

> > > > > > > > > > > > > is available or not - as long as the

> > derivations

> > > > are

> > > > > > > logical,

> > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > reflect the actual experience.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the 'material' looks very insightful

stuff.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > That is very good point - which itself I

> think

> > > > > indicate

> > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > > > > > could

> > > > > > > > > > > > > be valuable material.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Love,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In

> > , rk

> > > > > dash

> > > > > > > > > > > > > <arkaydash@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK, Sree, that about sums up the

scenario

> on

> > one

> > > > of

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > 7-

> > > > > > > > > fold

> > > > > > > > > > > > > method. But the search, esp. for rishi

hora

> > source

> > > > > must

> > > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > kept

> > > > > > > > > > > on.

> > > > > > > > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > > > > > > know of a compedium in vernacular which

> > collates

> > > > the

> > > > > > best

> > > > > > > > > (best

> > > > > > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > compiler thought any particular aspect

from a

> > > > classic

> > > > > > to

> > > > > > > be)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > available, which goes into this aspect

(lord

> > going

> > > > to

> > > > > > > > > different

> > > > > > > > > > > > > houses) but there is no source mention for

> the

> > > > > portion

> > > > > > > nor is

> > > > > > > > > > > there

> > > > > > > > > > > > > the Sanskrit original for it unlike most

> other

> > > > > portions

> > > > > > > in the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > compendium. Nevertheless the 'material'

looks

> > very

> > > > > > > insightful

> > > > > > > > > > > stuff.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > It is things like this that I had in mind.

> > Let's

> > > > see.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > RK

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear RK ji,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now we have to agree on who next to

> Parasara

> > we

> > > > > take

> > > > > > on

> > > > > > > > > board

> > > > > > > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > comparison. You have named two:

Meenaraja

> > Hora,

> > > > and

> > > > > > Hora

> > > > > > > > > > > > Pradeepam.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Who else? We don't have to go by the

> overall

> > > > > > reputation

> > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > text.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > We may narrow down our selection to the

> > aspect of

> > > > > > > > > > > interpretation

> > > > > > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > question in a treatise that may not

> > otherwise be

> > > > > > rated

> > > > > > > very

> > > > > > > > > > > high.

> > > > > > > > > > > > What

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > say?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So who else? I mean which other

> authority/-

> > ies

> > > > or

> > > > > > > > > classics?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <==

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > This question is really difficult to

> > answer.

> > > > > Apart

> > > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > > > > Parasara

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > (for whom various versions of the slokas

> are

> > > > > > available

> > > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > same in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > almost all instances) Meena Raja Hora

> > discusses

> > > > it.

> > > > > > The

> > > > > > > > > > > statements

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > from Meena Raja Hora is mentioned with

> > utmost

> > > > > > > importance in

> > > > > > > > > > > Hora

> > > > > > > > > > > > Ratna

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > as well (at times they slightly variant

> > versions

> > > > > of

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > slokas

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > available in current printed verion of

> Meena

> > raja

> > > > > > > hora).

> > > > > > > > > Hora

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > pradeepam is a text quoted with

reverance

> by

> > the

> > > > > > auther

> > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > Hora

> > > > > > > > > > > > Sara

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > (i.e. Nrisimha Daivanjna), a well known

> > scholar

> > > > of

> > > > > > 17th

> > > > > > > > > > > century.

> > > > > > > > > > > > Thus -

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Meenaraja hora gets double importance

since

> > > > > supported

> > > > > > > by

> > > > > > > > > Hora

> > > > > > > > > > > > Ratna.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hora Pradeepam gets double importance

since

> > > > > supported

> > > > > > > by

> > > > > > > > > Hora

> > > > > > > > > > > > Sara.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some other later day texts MIGHT have

> > discussed

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > same at

> > > > > > > > > > > times

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > (though not extensively), but I am yet

to

> > make an

> > > > > > > elaborate

> > > > > > > > > > > > search for

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the same in texts like Sarvartha

> Chintamani,

> > > > Jataka

> > > > > > > > > Parijata,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saravali, Phaladeepika etc. One or two

> > > > rudimentary

> > > > > > > slokas

> > > > > > > > > > > related

> > > > > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the same we may find in these texts as

> well.

> > Some

> > > > > > slokas

> > > > > > > > > > > relevant

> > > > > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the may find a place in many ancient

Rishi

> > horas

> > > > > > > (Whereever

> > > > > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > > > > find

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > such a reference I will quote them for

> > sure). But

> > > > > for

> > > > > > > sure

> > > > > > > > > none

> > > > > > > > > > > > of the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > other texts (except BPHS, Meenaraja

hora,

> > Hora

> > > > > > > Pradeepam)

> > > > > > > > > > > > discusses

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > this subject extensively in detail as

per

> my

> > > > > current

> > > > > > > > > knowledge

> > > > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > understanding. As far as ancient texts

> > (Rishi

> > > > > horas)

> > > > > > are

> > > > > > > > > > > > concerned it

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > is possible that the slokas that discuss

> > this

> > > > > subject

> > > > > > > > > > > extensively

> > > > > > > > > > > > are

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > lost, even though they might have done

the

> > same

> > > > > > (since

> > > > > > > they

> > > > > > > > > use

> > > > > > > > > > > 7-

> > > > > > > > > > > > fold

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > method).

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Love,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In

> > ,

> > > > rk

> > > > > > dash

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <arkaydash@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, you are homing in on the " pure "

> > point.

> > > > > That's

> > > > > > > what

> > > > > > > > > this

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > particular aspect of interpretation of a

> > chart is

> > > > > > > about.

> > > > > > > > > That's

> > > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > way (the part-way) to go about it --

core

> > task,

> > > > > > > winkling the

> > > > > > > > > > > > secrets

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > out of a chart. Now we have to agree on

who

> > next

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > Parasara we

> > > > > > > > > > > > take

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > on board for comparision. You have named

> > two:

> > > > > > Meenaraja

> > > > > > > > > Hora,

> > > > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > Hora

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pradeepam. Who else? We don't have to go

by

> > the

> > > > > > overall

> > > > > > > > > > > > reputation of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the text. We may narrow down our

selection

> > to the

> > > > > > > aspect of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > interpretation in question in a treatise

> > that may

> > > > > not

> > > > > > > > > otherwise

> > > > > > > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > rated very high. What say?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So who else? I mean which other

> authority/-

> > ies

> > > > or

> > > > > > > > > classics?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sotto Voce: I don't want us, you and

me,

> > to be

> > > > > > > cynosures

> > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > (the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > galaxy of) our star-gazers in this

> > firmament.

> > > > > > Onlookers

> > > > > > > all?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RK

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear RK ji,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are right - to the point. I agree.

> But

> > as

> > > > far

> > > > > > as

> > > > > > > LL

> > > > > > > > > going

> > > > > > > > > > > > to H-7

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is concerned, the special point

> > regarding ' if

> > > > LL

> > > > > > is a

> > > > > > > > > > > malefic'

> > > > > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mentioned in the sloka itself; there

for

> > we

> > > > > cannot

> > > > > > > > > discount

> > > > > > > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > > > > > as far

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as the prediction related to the same

> > given in

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > sloka

> > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > > concerned.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For other results regarding LL in H-7

> > (which we

> > > > > > would

> > > > > > > > > discuss

> > > > > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > detail as this discussion progresses)

I

> > agree

> > > > > > > absolutely

> > > > > > > > > with

> > > > > > > > > > > > your

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > logic and argument.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As far as LL in H-5 is concerned, I

think

> > there

> > > > > > could

> > > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > point

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mentioned under consideration (for

BPHS

> > > > > results)

> > > > > > > even

> > > > > > > > > > > though

> > > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > same is NOT mentioned in the sloka.

But

> as

> > you

> > > > > have

> > > > > > > > > clearly

> > > > > > > > > > > > stated,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the normal expected result for the

same

> > SHOULD

> > > > > > > > > BE ''susuta'

> > > > > > > > > > > > (good

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > child, or birth of children). Let us

keep

> > this

> > > > > > doubt

> > > > > > > open

> > > > > > > > > > > till

> > > > > > > > > > > > we

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cross verify the results with the

> > derivations

> > > > > given

> > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > other

> > > > > > > > > > > > texts and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > come to a logical

conclusion/derivation.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We always have 2 options open to cross

> > check

> > > > the

> > > > > > > results

> > > > > > > > > > > > predicted

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > by BPHS in this context-

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) Cross verify the results with the

> > > > predictions

> > > > > > > given in

> > > > > > > > > > > other

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > texts (especially Meenaraja Hora &

Hora

> > > > Pradeepam)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Compare the predicted results with

> > actual

> > > > > > results

> > > > > > > > > observed.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But still, the base rule as you

pointed

> > out is -

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What we are concerned at this stage

of

> > > > > > the 'ruling'

> > > > > > > is:

> > > > > > > > > L-1

> > > > > > > > > > > > goes

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > H-5, L-1 goes to H-7 etc, other

factors

> > > > clearly

> > > > > > > > > discounted.

> > > > > > > > > > > > Clear?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <==

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To state in other words, the base rule

> is -

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " LL going to H-1, H-2, H-3 etc ONLY

> should

> > be

> > > > > > > considered,

> > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > other

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > factors (such as LL being

> malefic/benefic,

> > LL

> > > > > being

> > > > > > > > > aspected

> > > > > > > > > > > by

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > malefic/benefic etc) should be clearly

> > > > discounted "

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We will even touch this base rule with

> > > > > corollaries,

> > > > > > > ONLY

> > > > > > > > > WHEN

> > > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > special condition is mentioned in the

> > sloka

> > > > > itself;

> > > > > > > just

> > > > > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > contaminate the result indicated by

the

> > sloka.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If this corollary is not there, I

agree

> to

> > your

> > > > > > > statement

> > > > > > > > > > > > completely.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Love,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In

> > > > ,

> > > > > rk

> > > > > > > dash

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <arkaydash@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think we should keep out the

factor

> of

> > L1

> > > > > being

> > > > > > a

> > > > > > > > > natural

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > malefic -- the logic you have used for

> > those

> > > > > > outcomes

> > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > L-1

> > > > > > > > > > > > going to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5th, 7th hse (death of first child,

> > > > uninterested

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > life/wife

> > > > > > > > > > > > etc). If

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > we must, then we have to qualify the

> > deduction,

> > > > > > > > > saying " where

> > > > > > > > > > > L-

> > > > > > > > > > > > 5 (or

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > L-7) is a malefic or is afflicted " .

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What we are concerned at this stage

of

> > > > > > the 'ruling'

> > > > > > > is:

> > > > > > > > > L-1

> > > > > > > > > > > > goes

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > H-5, L-1 goes to H-7 etc, other

factors

> > clearly

> > > > > > > > > discounted.

> > > > > > > > > > > > Clear?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let's carry on,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RK

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear RK ji,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your concerns are right - important

> > points

> > > > > > > mentioned.

> > > > > > > > > Let

> > > > > > > > > > > us

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > together try to find out the reasons

> > based on

> > > > > our

> > > > > > > logic.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When in 1st : Uncertain in decision

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lagna lord in lagna gives the native

> all

> > the

> > > > > good

> > > > > > > > > qualities

> > > > > > > > > > > > such as

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > compassion, kindness, softness of

mind,

> > > > > emotional

> > > > > > > > > approach

> > > > > > > > > > > > etc.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Result? Uncertainty in decision. I

> think

> > this

> > > > > > > account

> > > > > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > logical

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > basis of the above derivation.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When in 2nd: Many wives

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is just natural. 2nd and 11th

> house

> > > > > signify

> > > > > > > second

> > > > > > > > > > > > marriage.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When the lagna lord comes in contact

> > with any

> > > > > > house

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > native is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sure to get the results related to

> that.

> > > > Lagna

> > > > > > lord

> > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > 2nd

> > > > > > > > > > > > house

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > makes the native beautiful,

talkative,

> > liked

> > > > by

> > > > > > > women

> > > > > > > > > etc.

> > > > > > > > > > > > Thus it

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > turns out that it is natural to have

> > many

> > > > > > relations

> > > > > > > > > > > (wives).

> > > > > > > > > > > > It

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > should be noted that for lagna lord

in

> > lagna,

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > lagna

> > > > > > > > > > > lord

> > > > > > > > > > > > in 2nd

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > house - 2 wives and many wives are

> > derived -

> > > > > NOT

> > > > > > as

> > > > > > > a

> > > > > > > > > bad

> > > > > > > > > > > > > result, but

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as a good result; indicating that

the

> > native

> > > > > will

> > > > > > > have

> > > > > > > > > every

> > > > > > > > > > > > > kind of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > luxury including women.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When in 3rd : Many kinds of

wealth, 2

> > wives

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Valorous - thus many kinds of

wealth;

> > 3rd is

> > > > a

> > > > > > house

> > > > > > > > > > > usually

> > > > > > > > > > > > is of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > MIXED nature indicating

> > mixed/various/many

> > > > > > results.

> > > > > > > > > That is

> > > > > > > > > > > > why the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > derivation 'Many kinds of wealth'.

2nd

> > from

> > > > > 2nd -

> > > > > > > many

> > > > > > > > > > > kinds

> > > > > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wealth - i think this is why you

doubt

> > that

> > > > it

> > > > > > > could be

> > > > > > > > > due

> > > > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > bhavat

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > bhavam. 2 wives - i have no idea

supply

> > in

> > > > this

> > > > > > > regard.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When in 4th: Lust

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No idea as of now.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When in 5th: Angry, loss of the

1st

> > child

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th, any

affliction

> > to it

> > > > > can

> > > > > > > affect

> > > > > > > > > > > both

> > > > > > > > > > > > 5th

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > house and lagna equally - making a

> > double

> > > > > impact.

> > > > > > > That

> > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > why

> > > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prediction 'loss of child'. Why 1st

> > child -

> > > > 5th

> > > > > > > signify

> > > > > > > > > 1st

> > > > > > > > > > > > child

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > more i doubt. Possibly here Parasara

> > deviates

> > > > > a

> > > > > > bit

> > > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > conventional prediction owing to the

> > > > > possibility

> > > > > > > > > of 'double

> > > > > > > > > > > > > impact' i

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > think. The standard prediction

should

> be

> > (we

> > > > > will

> > > > > > > > > verify)

> > > > > > > > > > > > gain of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > child, as you mentioned. (But first

the

> > child

> > > > > > > should be

> > > > > > > > > > > born

> > > > > > > > > > > > for it

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to perish - this may make both the

> > > > derivations

> > > > > > > > > consistent)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When in 7th: Uninterested in

worldly

> > life

> > > > and

> > > > > > wife

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This applies only if lagna lord is a

> > malefic.

> > > > > > > Therefore

> > > > > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > logically ok.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When in 12th: Good health

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No idea as of now.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Love,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In

> > > > > ,

> > > > > > rk

> > > > > > > dash

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <arkaydash@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Good start. I agree. First

> theoretical

> > > > > > > consideration

> > > > > > > > > then

> > > > > > > > > > > > we test

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the rules against actual charts.

Here's

> > a

> > > > small

> > > > > > > > > beginning

> > > > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > examination of lagna lord's

bhavashraya

> > phala

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > BHPH.

> > > > > > > > > I'll

> > > > > > > > > > > go

> > > > > > > > > > > > > about

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it by first picking out those phala

> > (results)

> > > > > > which

> > > > > > > are

> > > > > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > > > > > self-

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > evident. Here they are:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When in 1st

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Uncertain in decision

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When in 2nd

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Many wives

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When in 3rd

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Many kinds of wealth (bhavat

> bhavam?),

> > 2

> > > > wives

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When in 4th

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lust

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When in 5th

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Angry, loss of the 1st child

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When in 7th

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Uninterested in worldly life and

wife

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When in 12th

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Good health

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > These results are not easy to

> discern,

> > > > given

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > first

> > > > > > > > > > > > factor

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (the linkage of the the self to the

> > > > department

> > > > > > > > > represented

> > > > > > > > > > > by

> > > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > house the lagna lord tenants) and

the

> > > > sweeping

> > > > > > good

> > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > > > lagna lord

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > brings to the bhava it goes to. Take

> its

> > > > > > placement

> > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > 5th.

> > > > > > > > > > > > Why loss

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of child at all? Most other works

> > > > > > declare, 'susuta',

> > > > > > > > > > > meaning

> > > > > > > > > > > > good

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > progeny. I'll cite one such at a

later

> > stage

> > > > > for

> > > > > > > all

> > > > > > > > > house

> > > > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > tenancy

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as far as 1st lord is concerned.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One more thing I'd like to think

> aloud

> > > > about.

> > > > > > > Rule

> > > > > > > > > says

> > > > > > > > > > > > that any

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > lord that goes to a dusthana will

bring

> > > > > detriment

> > > > > > > to the

> > > > > > > > > > > > house the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > planet is lord of. Now how do we

> > reconcile

> > > > the

> > > > > L1

> > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > 12th

> > > > > > > > > > > > ensuring

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > good health? Will it take care of

the

> > > > attrition

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > body

> > > > > > > > > > > (12th

> > > > > > > > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1st hse, ie body) without itself

being

> > > > subject

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > detriment?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RK

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear All,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The primary derivations for Lagna

> lord

> > in

> > > > > > various

> > > > > > > > > houses

> > > > > > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > > > > > per

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BPHS is given below. I invite all to

> > start a

> > > > > > > discussion

> > > > > > > > > on

> > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > same.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > =================================

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As per BPHS, for Lagna lord in -

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lagna: healthy body, courageous,

> > uncertain

> > > > in

> > > > > > > > > decisions,

> > > > > > > > > > > 2

> > > > > > > > > > > > wives

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2nd house: knowledgeable, good

> > earnings,

> > > > > > > happiness,

> > > > > > > > > good

> > > > > > > > > > > > habits,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > righteous, many wives, good

qualities.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3rd house: valorous like a lion,

all

> > kinds

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > wealth,

> > > > > > > > > 2

> > > > > > > > > > > > wives,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > intelligent.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4th house: love and affection from

> > healthy

> > > > > > mother

> > > > > > > with

> > > > > > > > > > > good

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > longevity, many brothers/sisters,

lust,

> > > > beauty

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > good

> > > > > > > > > > > > qualities.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5th house: angry, moderate

happiness

> > from

> > > > > > > children,

> > > > > > > > > loss

> > > > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > > first

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > born (child), admired by government

and

> > > > > > authorities.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6th house: (especially if aspected

by

> > > > > malefics)

> > > > > > > > > trouble

> > > > > > > > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > enemies, bad health.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 7th house: (especially if Lagna

lord

> > is a

> > > > > > > malefic) his

> > > > > > > > > > > wife

> > > > > > > > > > > > will

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > die early (or married life will not

go

> > long),

> > > > > he

> > > > > > > will

> > > > > > > > > > > become

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > uninterested in worldly life and

wife,

> > will

> > > > be

> > > > > > > detached

> > > > > > > > > > > > towards his

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > native land and wander/visit many

> > places, It

> > > > is

> > > > > > > possible

> > > > > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > > > he

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > won't be much wealthy (he would be a

> > poor

> > > > man)

> > > > > or

> > > > > > > also

> > > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > > he

> > > > > > > > > > > > > would

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > be a very wealthy person like a king.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 8th house: master of some branch

of

> > > > > knowledge,

> > > > > > > > > troubled

> > > > > > > > > > > by

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > diseases, interested in others

wives,

> > will be

> > > > > > > > > interested in

> > > > > > > > > > > > all

> > > > > > > > > > > > > kinds

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of games such as cards, chess, dice,

> > lottery

> > > > > and

> > > > > > so

> > > > > > > on,

> > > > > > > > > > > very

> > > > > > > > > > > > much

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > angry.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 9th house: lucky, loved by the

> public,

> > > > > devotee

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > Vishnu,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > master of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > words and oratory, will have good

> wealth

> > wife

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > children.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house: admired by government

and

> > > > people

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > power

> > > > > > > > > > > (the

> > > > > > > > > > > > native

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > will have a good job), he would be a

> > > > government

> > > > > > > servant,

> > > > > > > > > > > very

> > > > > > > > > > > > much

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > popular.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 11th house: much income from many

> > sources,

> > > > > good

> > > > > > > > > > > popularity

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (popularity due to good deeds,

> > celebrity),

> > > > good

> > > > > > > > > qualities,

> > > > > > > > > > > > many

> > > > > > > > > > > > > wives.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 12th house: good health,

extravagant

> > > > without

> > > > > > > reason,

> > > > > > > > > > > angry

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (especially if not benefics are

present

> > in

> > > > 12th

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > if

> > > > > > > > > no

> > > > > > > > > > > > benefic

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > aspects 12th)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > =================================

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Love,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In

> > > > > > ,

> > > > > > > manju

> > > > > > > > > > > > chawla

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <manjuch2001@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank You Sreenadhji

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > we would learn this subject in

this

> > > > way.You

> > > > > > are

> > > > > > > > > really

> > > > > > > > > > > > > helping us

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > God bless you

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > manju

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh sreesog@ wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear All,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let us start a new discussion on

> the

> > > > > > > subject " What

> > > > > > > > > > > should

> > > > > > > > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > predicted for Lagna lord in

Various

> > > > > houses? " -

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > let

> > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > discussion

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > go

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > first and then comparison of it

> with

> > > > actual

> > > > > > > results.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Love,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " I am careful not to confuse

> > excellence

> > > > with

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > perfection,Excellence-I can reach

> > > > > for,Perfection

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > God's

> > > > > > > > > > > > > business---

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Michael J.Fox

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ready for the edge of your seat?

> > Check

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>

September 21, 2007

Dear Pradeep ji,

We gave beginning to -

1) Sign-House - by the thread " How to predict with Lagna alone "

2) House-Planet Base - by the thread " Sun in Various Houses "

3) Sign-Planet Base - by discussing " Sun in Various Signs "

4) House Base - by the current thread " Lagna lord in various houses "

What remains even to be touched is -

5) Planet Base - by " Moon with other planets " future thread.

6) Sign-House-Planet Base - by " 7th House and Strong Yogas

indicating Death of Wife " (future thread)

7) Sign Base - by " Adwaita, Dwata, Trinity,Yuga Pancha Boota and

the 12 Signs " (future thread)

May be this or the similar threads will cover the initial ground of

7-fold system; providing the starting speed.

> Hope more example charts will be discussed ...

Yes, we can take up the example charts now itself, so long as we are

ready to deal ONLY WITH the point we are discussing here. i.e. If we

are discussing " Lagna in various houses " , then take up some chart and

analyze and compare with the native's actual result ONLY FOR " lagna

in xx house " for that chart - and if the discard the full reading of

the chart; that is not our aim or purpose. In such a way sticking to

our boundaries will help us much in clarifying and verifying our

logical conclusions based on actual observed results.

As far as Vargas are concerned, let anyone start a thread now itself,

or you start one, but I would like to put my hand on it after the

pending 3 threads in 7-fold method. If I am diverting myself to

Vargas now itself these steps and their approach we will miss or

clarification of 7-fold method will remain in pending. When we touch

Vargas (Now or after) let us start with Navamsa - that is the most

popular among Vargas. It is better to start with showing how 7-fold

strategy is applicable to Vargas (Divisions) as well, but in a

different way - based on umpteen classics.

I am holding myself back on vargas (divisions) even after the

high pole in favor of the discussion on the same, because similar to

natal chart 7-fold method is the foundation for Vargas as well. If

the 7-fold approach itself is not clear to us, what we are going to

do with Vargas; how we are going to approach the study of vargas

systematically? This is why the stress on current threads - and

reluctance to let them go. Of course the urge to wind them up with

out going to complete discussion is also there – since otherwise we

can not move forward and reach the ground we want to cover fast. I

will appreciate if someone can initiate and handle parallel threads

on our pending 4 subjects vis,

5) Planet Base - by " Moon with other planets " future thread.

6) Sign-House-Planet Base - by " 7th House and Strong Yogas

indicating Death of Wife " (future thread)

7) Sign Base - by " Adwaita, Dwata, Trinity,Yuga Pancha Boota and

the 12 Signs " (future thread)

8) Divisions (Vargas) – by " 7- fold system and Navamsa of Moon "

or " How to predict with Navamsa " .

Note: Anyone who is able to start and hold a thread on these

lines should limit the discussion to our pre-defined bounds (set it

initially itself) so that he could keep complete control of the

thread. Based on special interests,

Pradeep ji : Navamsa and 7 fold system

Sunil ji: Moon with other planets

May be RK ji would like to conduct a strong discussion on malefic

combinations on 7th house.

I request all these scholars and others to select a thread of

interest (within our scope of 7-fold method and Vargas as mentioned

above) and hold/conduct/maintain the ownership of those threads

providing fruitful results to us in our studies. I will hold the

tread on " Lagna lord in various houses " – till I reach and wind it up

on lagna lord in 12th.

Love,

Sreenadh

, " vijayadas_pradeep "

<vijayadas_pradeep wrote:

>

> Dear Sreenadh ji

>

> The three stages of study strategy is a guideline for all including

> me.I guess this is the appraoch that you have gained through your

> valauable experience with numerous teachers hailing from

uncorrupted

> Parampara.

> Hope more example charts will be discussed with Sthana,Bhava and

> Kheta and Vargas of Rashis as advised by sages in umpteen classical

> texts.

>

> Thanks

> Pradeep

> , " Sreenadh "

> <sreesog@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Paraddep ji,

> > Good to see your comments.

> > ==>

> > > As i am writing a paper on this ..

> > <==

> > We would love to see the same, once the same is completed, if

you

> > permit us to.

> > ==>

> > > All of us are happy that your initiatives and our collective

> > > efforts will take us towards the shore of TRUTH

> > <==

> > Phew...! How daring on this humble soul...! " Shore of

> truth " !!....

> > don't make me afraid....I am a coward, you know....

> > OK. Even if not to the shore of truth, at least a systematic

> > understanding of ancient astrology will result I hope..

> > Yes, Bhava is important. Bhavayati tat bhavam (What ever we

think

> of

> > it, it becomes that). Bhavas in astrology is no different - What

> ever

> > we want to think about the whole chart becomes that!

> > Now some general talk about our study strategies.

> > Stage -1

> > ========

> > Usually as per our 7-fold terminology we use the words such

> as 'Sign

> > based predation, House based prediction, Planet based prediction

> > etc'; But it does not sound good in English. I suggest better we

> > should start using the terms such as -

> > 1. Sign Base (Stanato)

> > 2. House Base (Bhavata)

> > 3. Planet Base (Khetai)

> > 4. Sign-House Base (Stana-Bhava)

> > 5. House-Planet Base (Bhava-Khechara)

> > 6. Sign-Planet Base (Stana-Kheta)

> > 7. Sign-House-Planet Base (Stana-Bhava-Nabhascharai)

> > For as translation of the Sanskrit terms given in bracket. Using

> the

> > word 'Base' instead of 'Based' sounds good, I feel. A detailed

> > discussion of the above 7 and its sub-rules involved completes

> > our " fundamentals of ancient indian astrology " . This will

complete

> > our target 'stage -1'

> > Stage -2

> > ========

> > The first advanced section [secondary certification ] would be -

> > 1. Use of Dwadasa (12) Varga and Shad (6) Vargas [12 Divisions &

> 6

> > Vargadhipas]

> > 2. Planetary Aspect (Graha Drishti) results

> > 3. Special Yogas

> > 4. Dasa and Gochara

> > 5. Prasna in Detail (Ashta mangala Prasna)

> > Stage -3

> > ========

> > In our advanced studies we will try to cover all the other areas

> > such as-

> > 1. Mundane Astrology, Muhoorta, Varsha phala, Derivation of

> results

> > for countries and places.

> > 2. Different schools and their unique methodologies (Arha,

> > BPHS/Jaimini, Yavana, Tajika etc)

> > 3. Any other concept any one want to discuss.

> >

> > Any one who is involved in our current learning efforts can

> consider

> > this as a simple outline of our study strategy. Even if we divert

> a

> > bit here and there - we have to come back to this, and learn the

> > system from the base in detail. Many has followed many other

paths

> > and shortcuts but for no avail. That is the fundamental reason

for

> > our going back to the original and the effort for restructuring

> the

> > same - the effort to re-establish the ancient original authentic

> > system.

> > I would like to generalize your question -

> >

> > If 7-fold methodology is not understood then what do we

understand

> in

> > Jyotish? (Bhava or House Base derivation is just a part of it).

If

> > not even the fundamentals are not correctly understood what can

we

> > do?

> > Our effort is to negate this question, and make us efficient

> enough

> > to say with confidence - Yes, we DO know the fundamentals! We DO

> know

> > how to use the 7-fold system of astrology!

> >

> > Note: The current era is of people who say 'We know' without

> knowing

> > a bit - beware of them!

> >

> > Love,

> > Sreenadh

> >

> > --- In

> , " vijayadas_pradeep "

> > <vijayadas_pradeep@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Shri Sreenadh

> > >

> > > It is well written regarding Bhava chintha and Bhava Bhava

> > chinta.It

> > > will take a considerable number of years in ones life time to

> > > understand Bhava and Bhava-Bhava vichinthanam.When we are not

> > > prepared for the HOLISTIC apparoach we go for workarounds and

> > > compartmentalisations,which will leave us in compartments

> without

> > > leading us to unified Truths.

> > >

> > > One should think why Rashi Tulya Navamsha is called BHAVA-AMSHA

> or

> > > Bhava Suchaka Navamsha.Here we are seeing in which Bhava(always

> in

> > > Rashi chakra as 12 Rashis represent 12 Bhavas) the navamsha is

> > > falling.It is a SUCHAKA or indicator on the Bhava on to which

> the

> > > navamsha is falling.

> > >

> > > Why is navamsha Tulya rashi not having any Bhavas or such

> suchakas?

> > >

> > > As i am writing a paper on this ,and as enough has been

> > said,details

> > > are not being touched.

> > >

> > > All of us are happy that your initiatives and our collective

> > efforts

> > > will take us towards the shore of TRUTH.If BHAVA is not

> understood

> > > then what do we understand in Jyotish?

> > >

> > > Regds

> > > Pradeep

> > >

> > > , " Sreenadh "

> > > <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear RK ji,

> > > > ==>

> > > > > Even 6th-and-11th and 10th-and-7th fall in the category.

> > > > <==

> > > > Yes - the complete list is -

> > > > • For 1st, 1st (1st from 1st) is very important

> > > > • For 2nd, 3rd (2nd from 2nd) is very important

> > > > • For 3rd, 5th (3rd from 3rd) is very important

> > > > • For 4th, 7th (4th from 4th) is very important

> > > > • For 5th, 9th (5th from 5th ) is very important

> > > > • For 6th, 11th (6th from 6th) is very important

> > > > • For 7th, 1st (7th from 7th ) is very important

> > > > • For 8th, 3rd (8th from 8th ) is very important

> > > > • For 9th, 5th (9th from 9th ) is very important

> > > > • For 10th, 7th (10th from 10th ) is very important

> > > > • For 11th, 9th (11th from 11th ) is very important

> > > > • For 12th, 11th (12th from 12th ) is very important

> > > >

> > > > [Note that All the odd houses - 1st, 3rd, 5th, 7th, 9th & 11

> th

> > > are

> > > > gaining double importance in this list]

> > > > ==>

> > > > It's one thing to read progeny from 9th because 9th is 5

> houses

> > > away

> > > > from 5th, and another to read enemy from 11th 'coz it is 6

> houses

> > > away

> > > > from 6th. One thing to read spouse from 7th and another to

> move 7

> > > > houses from 7th and read the same from there.

> > > > <==

> > > > The point is " It is NOT reading the SAME, but reading the

> > > DETAILS " .

> > > > The paired house (given above) has MAXIMUM INFLUENCE on

DETAILS

> > > > concerning that prime significance. It is the confusion

> regarding

> > > the

> > > > 'Same' that causes you to argue on the above lines.

> > > > Ofcouse 11th can gives us much details in 'Bhavat Bhava

> Chinta';

> > > But

> > > > please don't confuce it with 'Bhava Chinta' where 6th only

> > > signifies

> > > > enemy and NOT 11th. 'Bhava Chinta' and 'Bhavat Bhava Chinta'

> are

> > > two

> > > > methods/thought-tools.

> > > > ==>

> > > > > The 1st and 11th where individuals (relatives) are

concerned

> > > remain

> > > > irrefragable, because reiteration will cause chaos.

> > > > <==

> > > > In astrology instead of compartmentalization and

> classification,

> > > > holistic approach and integration gains importance at the

> end.

> > > The

> > > > ppl gets struck up in the first method term the second as

> chaos.

> > > The

> > > > astrologer is 'Ooha-Apoha Patu' meaning -

> > > > 1. First he uses analytical/classification methods to derive

> > prime

> > > > results. (This is termed 'Ooha'; This is the analytical

> > approach).

> > > For

> > > > example. some malefic influence in 4th, then he knows that

> > > something

> > > > bad should be predicted derived for mother.

> > > > 2. Second, he uses the holistic/integration approach to

> confirm

> > > and

> > > > derive details (secondary results). (This is termed 'Apoha';

> This

> > > is

> > > > holistic approach). For example, Some influence on 4th from

> 4th,

> > > > Something about Mo, some other combinations in chart indicate

> > > > something related to Mother; In essence a multitude of houses

> and

> > > > planets start speaking about the mother! The astrologer see

> this,

> > > the

> > > > conclusion is being drawn by his consciousness (No, he is NOT

> > doing

> > > > it, but rather he REFLECTS it; even though his total

> understanding

> > > > about methodologies becomes the fuel, the fire is the

> integrated

> > > > nature of consciousness itself). Yah, this second face will

> feel

> > > like

> > > > chaos to those who strictly stick to the fragmented first

> > approach

> > > alone.

> > > > Astrology gives equal importance to both these strategies

> > > Analytical

> > > > & Holistic (Ooha & Apoha). It is not that Analytical is more

> > > important

> > > > or that Holistic is more important; Both of them are equally

> > > > important. Analytical approach is the base (because of the

> > > fragmented

> > > > nature of human mind) and Holistic approach is the culmination

> > > > (because of the integrated nature of the consciousness).

> > > > I don't know to what extend I have succeeded in conveying

the

> > > idea, I

> > > > want to convey. Yes, this though process is part of 'Bhava

> > Chinta'

> > > and

> > > > 'Bhavat Bhava' chinta as well. In a way you can

consider 'Bhava

> > > > Chinta' as part of analytical, and 'Bhava Bhava Chinta' as

> part of

> > > > holistic providing details. As a whole together they reflect

> the

> > > whole.

> > > > ==>

> > > > > I think we'll have to turn to verification of this aspect

> of

> > > b.b.

> > > > from actual charts, at a later stage.

> > > > <==

> > > > Yes, we have to and we will.

> > > > Love and Hugs,

> > > > Sreenadh

> > > >

> > > > , rk dash

> > > > <arkaydash@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Yes, Sreenadh,

> > > > >

> > > > > Even 6th-and-11th and 10th-and-7th fall in the category.

> But,

> > > and

> > > > this is a 'nice' but, my contention is: not lock stock and

> barrel.

> > > > Particularly where relatives are concerned we better leave the

> > > > incompatible signifcations out of the reiteration in these

> > > > house-pairs. It's one thing to read progeny from 9th because

> 9th

> > > is 5

> > > > houses away from 5th, and another to read enemy from

11th 'coz

> it

> > > is 6

> > > > houses away from 6th. One thing to read spouse from 7th and

> > > another to

> > > > move 7 houses from 7th and read the same from there. Our

> > > derivations

> > > > would then be: 7th is spouse, 1st is spouse, not self. And

> one's

> > > > father's co-borns would be one's enemies.

> > > > >

> > > > > The 1st and 11th where inidviduals (relatives) are

concerned

> > > remain

> > > > irrefragable, because reiteration will cause choas.

> > > > >

> > > > > Reminds me of a similar rule in arudha determination.

When

> the

> > > > lord of a house is 7 houses away from that house, you know

the

> > > arudha

> > > > does not move 7 house away from the lord's position.

> > > > >

> > > > > I think we'll have to turn to verification of this aspect

> of

> > > b.b.

> > > > from actual charts, at a later stage.

> > > > >

> > > > > Your turn.

> > > > > RK

> > > > >

> > > > > Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > > > Dear RK ji,

> > > > > 1) Malefic affliction simultaneously of 4th & 7th (4th from

> > > 4th):

> > > > > harms mother

> > > > > In similar lines -

> > > > > 2) Malefic affliction simultaneously of 3rd & 5th (3rd from

> > > 3rd):

> > > > > harms younger co-born (brother or sister)

> > > > > Yes, BB is one of the major rules in operation here that

> helps

> > > us

> > > > > draw this conclusion. I don't any confusion is involved in

> it.

> > > This

> > > > > is a rule applicable everywhere. You should not that out of

> all

> > > the

> > > > > 12 houses from any house, well being of the house with the

> same

> > > > > number gains maximum importance. For example –

> > > > > · For 4th, 7th (4th from 4th) is very important

> > > > > · For 5th , 9th (5th from 5th ) is very important

> > > > > · For 7th, Lagna (7th from 7th ) is very important

> > > > > · For 8th , 3rd (8th from 8th ) is very important

> > > > > · For 9th, 5th (9th from 9th ) is very important and so

> on.

> > > > >

> > > > > Proceed with your argument and clarification.

> > > > > Love,

> > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > >

> > > > > , rk dash

> > > > > <arkaydash@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Sreenadh,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Yesterday I said, another day.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Malefic afflication simultanously of 4th & 7th harms

> mother.

> > > And

> > > > > you say that is due to b.b., not anything else. Fine. Now

> tell

> > > me

> > > > > whether affliction of 3rd as well as 5th will persuade us

to

> > > read an

> > > > > affliction of two co-born houses -- namely, 3rd and 3rd

from

> > > 3rd,

> > > > > which is 5th?

> > > > > > Would you read extended 3rd-ness (the extended theme of

> > > sibling)

> > > > > from 5th?

> > > > > > Promising to relieve you of the double jeopardy.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > RK

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > > > > Dear Sairam ji,

> > > > > > Good Morning. You are right.

> > > > > > Houses (Bhava) - are directly related to Native - Prime

> > > > > significance.

> > > > > > House to House - are directly related to House and

> indirectly

> > > to

> > > > > > native - Secondary significance; Details of items

> indicated

> > by

> > > > > > Primary significance.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Eg _1:

> > > > > > 4th : Mother.

> > > > > > Houses from 4th house: Details of Mother.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Eg _2:

> > > > > > 4th : Native House.

> > > > > > Houses from 4th house: Details of Native House.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Eg _3:

> > > > > > 2th : Face.

> > > > > > Houses from 2th house: Details of Face.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Yes, 'Bhavat Bhavam' is one of the straight forward, well

> > > known,

> > > > > > fundamental rule used for result derivation.

> > > > > > Love,

> > > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > > >

> > > > > > , sairam

> nat

> > > > > > <sairaman53@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Sairaman

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > goodmorning all members

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > re garding bhavathvam i have something to ay

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > there aretwo divisions in astrology like a coin 2 sides

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > one that isdirectly connected to lagna like education

> > > sickness

> > > > > > accidents etc

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > we cannot a proxy for our thirst sleep for job

education

> > etc

> > > > > unless

> > > > > > we go to job personally work there we cannot salary

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > a vechicle money property may owned by any enjoyed by

> others

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > the lagna sufferes any thing connected to 8and 12th

> houswe

> > > of

> > > > > lagna

> > > > > > rest ofthe bhavas from the bhavams do not much affect the

> > > native as

> > > > > > such for eg

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > if 10th lord in 5th it is 8th of 10th it is no away

> affects

> > > the

> > > > > > native as the 5th 9th etc are verygood bhava for the

> native

> > > from

> > > > > the

> > > > > > lagna whever lagna suffers the native suffers

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > so connecting each bhava to other may not affect the

> > > > > lagnathipathi

> > > > > > the native is not affected much

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > education sleep enjoyment happniness the state of mind

> > > thirst

> > > > > > hunger etc etc all the individual 3enjoys cannot be

> > transfered

> > > to

> > > > > > others

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > i have my 10th lord saturn in my 5th house i have much

> > > worrying

> > > > > > many years back after experience i have come to

conclusion

> it

> > > never

> > > > > > affected me i have good job well respected by boss going

> well

> > > for

> > > > > > past 34 years with some good changes for betterment well

> > > > > experienced

> > > > > > in so many different fields in job i am so happy as the

> 5th

> > > house

> > > > > is

> > > > > > houe of poorvapunya all my big bosses so intimately

> > personally

> > > > > > attached to me with good affection and love

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > bhavath bhavam is a very good concept however while

> > > expecting

> > > > > > results as such

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > thank y all with my wishes and regards

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > rk dash <arkaydash@> wrote:

> > > > > > > Dear Sunil, Lalit Saab, Sreenadh and friends,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > My bit. Bhavat bhavam is an operator of a rule, thus

has

> > its

> > > > > > ambit. And I expect we all know it. If we push it beyond

> the

> > > ambit,

> > > > > > the outcome will be illogic. Lalit Saab is right. 4th

> being

> > > 12th

> > > > > from

> > > > > > 5th should by bhavat bhavam logic cause attrition to/

take

> > > away

> > > > > from

> > > > > > 5th. The same would go for 9th w.r.t. 10th. But nothing

> > > untoward

> > > > > > happens to 10th if, for example, its lord goes to 9th. My

> > > personal

> > > > > > experience, really personal, says nothing untoward

> happens. I

> > > have

> > > > > > come across interpretation which expounds retirement from

> > 9th.

> > > Yes,

> > > > > > in the former pair, the maximus that can happen is

> children

> > > (or one

> > > > > > of them) may live away from the ancestral home of the

> native.

> > > I

> > > > > know

> > > > > > of at least one such chart.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > So, don't we know where bhavat bhavam holds, where it

> holds

> > > not?

> > > > > > We do. But justificatory haste puts paid to sound

> derivation.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Sreenaadh, in your file, have you also taken care of

the

> > > goof

> > > > > > that 7th is 4th from 3rd and about a page's wonderment as

> to

> > > how to

> > > > > > reconcile self's mother and coborn's? 7th is 4th from

4th,

> > > ergo it

> > > > > > reduplicates some of the significations of 4th. Mind you,

> not

> > > all

> > > > > of

> > > > > > them. And the one that is not is '4th as mother'. Yes,

4th

> as

> > > > > asset,

> > > > > > etc is mirrored by 7th. Bhavat bhavam in 7th (4th from

> 4th)

> > > cannot

> > > > > > clash with turya (source) of 4th, with 4th as mother.

7th -

> -

> > > that

> > > > > > which confronts you, the other that you interact with --

> is

> > > > > PRIMARILY

> > > > > > & IRREFRAGABLY spouse, partner and the like, so 'mother'

> > > > > > reduplication drops off.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > We'll try to be lively but unerring.

> > > > > > > RK

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > > > > > Dear Lalit ji,

> > > > > > > It is inside the folder named " Sreenadh " . But I am yet

> to

> > > upload

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > updated file, I will try to do it by today evening.

> > > > > > > Love,

> > > > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > --- In

> , " litsol "

> > > > > > > <mishra.lalit@> wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dear Srinadh.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I didn't see this document in the file section, can u

> > tell

> > > me

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > what

> > > > > > > > folder this pdf is there.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > regards,

> > > > > > > > Lalit.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > --- In

> > > , " Sreenadh "

> > > > > > > > <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Dear Lalit ji,

> > > > > > > > > It is applicable everywhere. I have already address

> > this

> > > > > doubt

> > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > detail in my modified document on " Lagna lord in

> > various

> > > > > > > > houses.pdf "

> > > > > > > > > file. So I will spare my energy - not trying to

> explain

> > > it

> > > > > > here. I

> > > > > > > > > will try to upload the document possibly by today

> > > evening

> > > > > > > itself.

> > > > > > > > > Love,

> > > > > > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > --- In

> > , " litsol "

> > > > > > > > > <mishra.lalit@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Sunil Ji,

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I had doubts, i m trying to put forth like this -

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Can we apply this logic to 4'th and 5'th houses,

> 4'th

> > > being

> > > > > > > 12'th

> > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > 5'th should denote some kind of loss to 5'th

> house,

> > > that i

> > > > > > > think

> > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > not true.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Same is relation between 3'rd and 11'th, 3'rd is

> 6'th

> > > from

> > > > > > > 11'th,

> > > > > > > > > > 3'rd might be complementary to 11'th but not the

> > > contrary.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Like if one does efforts, he will have gains.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > regards,

> > > > > > > > > > Lalit.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > --- In

> > > , " sunil

> > > > > nair "

> > > > > > > > > > <astro_tellerkerala@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Hare rama krishna,

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > dear lalit ,

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > The upachayas are 3,6,10,11 and 6 is both

> > > > > > > > dustana

> > > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > upachaya,Upachaya houses are supposed to be

> houses

> > > of

> > > > > free

> > > > > > > will

> > > > > > > > u

> > > > > > > > > > can

> > > > > > > > > > > execute in this life concerned with that bhava

> and

> > > also

> > > > > > > known

> > > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > > > houses

> > > > > > > > > > > of growth .That is why generaly says planets in

> > > upachaya

> > > > > > > gives

> > > > > > > > good

> > > > > > > > > > > results .

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Now let us take 2nd house and its upachaya

> houses.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > 4th house being 3rd from 2nd ( house of family

> or

> > > kutumba

> > > > > > > > where

> > > > > > > > > > one

> > > > > > > > > > > born or even this place is to see kula devata

> > > according

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > > prashna

> > > > > > > > > > > maaraga) ,7th house being 6th from 2nd house

> (house

> > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > marriage,partnership and even how we interact

> with

> > > out

> > > > > side

> > > > > > > > world

> > > > > > > > > > also

> > > > > > > > > > > madhana bhava and yatra bhava) ,and 11th house

> > being

> > > 10th

> > > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > 2nd

> > > > > > > > > > house

> > > > > > > > > > > ( house of all kinf of gains and

> incomes ,frnds,and

> > > even

> > > > > > our

> > > > > > > > elder

> > > > > > > > > > > siblings) and the 12th house ( the house of

> > > expenditure

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > > loses

> > > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > even our house of bed room pleasures ) ,

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Now if we apply logic we can see all this

houses

> > has

> > > a

> > > > > > great

> > > > > > > > say in

> > > > > > > > > > > accumulation of money which is one of the

> > > characteristics

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > 2nd

> > > > > > > > > > house.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > waiting comments from all scholars and members.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > regrds sunil nair.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > om shreem mahalaxmai namah.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > --- In

> > > , " litsol "

> > > > > > > > > > > <mishra.lalit@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > I agree to this point to some extent, It's

not

> > > always a

> > > > > > > good

> > > > > > > > try

> > > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > understand one house on the basis of how far

> it

> > is

> > > from

> > > > > > > some

> > > > > > > > > > house,

> > > > > > > > > > > > there are only 12 houses, so each and every

> house

> > > comes

> > > > > > > n'th

> > > > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > > > > 1'st to 12'th from remaining houses.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Better way of understanding the houses is

> trying

> > > to

> > > > > > > > understand

> > > > > > > > > > basic

> > > > > > > > > > > > charactersitic like if upchaya say 3rd house,

> why

> > > 3'rd

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > an

> > > > > > > > > > upachaya

> > > > > > > > > > > > etc. and then learning trikonas like dharma

> > > trikona,

> > > > > > Bhoga

> > > > > > > > trikona

> > > > > > > > > > > > etc.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > regards,

> > > > > > > > > > > > Lalit.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > --- In

> ,

> > > rk dash

> > > > > > > > > > > > arkaydash@ wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh,

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, I think so. They probably are from the

> > > Meenaraj

> > > > > > > > > > > > Hora/Horapradeepam sources now that I get to

> see

> > > your

> > > > > PDF

> > > > > > > > file.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > What I meant when I said: " Examples will of

> > > course

> > > > > pour

> > > > > > > in.

> > > > > > > > But

> > > > > > > > > > > > we have to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > see where a particular result is flowing

> from --

> >

> > > from

> > > > > > L1

> > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > a

> > > > > > > > > > > > > particular hse, or other planet/lords'

> > > configuration "

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > this.

> > > > > > > > > > When

> > > > > > > > > > > > we take up example charts (and we haven't

come

> to

> > > that

> > > > > as

> > > > > > > > yet), we

> > > > > > > > > > > > have to be careful not to confuse any

> particular

> > > > > > experience

> > > > > > > > > > emanating

> > > > > > > > > > > > from other configurations/patterns and a

> > > bhavashraya

> > > > > > phala

> > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > a

> > > > > > > > > > house

> > > > > > > > > > > > lord. That is how we correctly validate the

> > > derivation

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > > slokas.

> > > > > > > > > > We

> > > > > > > > > > > > all know what drama the 'yogaja phala' can

> > > introduce in

> > > > > a

> > > > > > > > chart.

> > > > > > > > > > The

> > > > > > > > > > > > task is arduous; it requires rigours. I was

> doing

> > > some

> > > > > > loud

> > > > > > > > > > thinking

> > > > > > > > > > > > on the methodological rigours staring at us,

> in

> > > advance.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > I went thru your PDF file. Umm, I would say

> > some

> > > of

> > > > > > your

> > > > > > > > logic

> > > > > > > > > > > > searches overshoot themselves. Take this one.

> The

> > > > > result

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > wealth

> > > > > > > > > > > > with lagna lord in 4th house. You say, 4th is

> 3rd

> > > from

> > > > > > 2nd,

> > > > > > > ie

> > > > > > > > > > > > upachaya from 2nd, which is how. Not very

> elegant

> > > as a

> > > > > > > > rationale.

> > > > > > > > > > The

> > > > > > > > > > > > reason, to my mind, is the wealth of

> > > siginfications the

> > > > > > 4th

> > > > > > > > hse

> > > > > > > > > > > > holds -- house, vehicle and what have you.

> Now,

> > > > > applying

> > > > > > > your

> > > > > > > > > > well-

> > > > > > > > > > > > plucked Rule Four, which says lagna lord

> > amplifies

> > > (the

> > > > > > > > goodness

> > > > > > > > > > of)

> > > > > > > > > > > > the house it goes to, the logic behind wealth

> is

> > > valid.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > I do like your Rule reminders. Commendable.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Best,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > RK

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > PS: I will take your hugs when we proceed

> > > > > on 'sustained

> > > > > > > > topics'

> > > > > > > > > > > > in a more organised fashion...

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh sreesog@ wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear RK ji,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks. The derivations given are good -

and

> > > looks as

> > > > > > if

> > > > > > > > solely

> > > > > > > > > > > > > based on " Houses " alone.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > ==>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Now, the rationale. Examples will of course

> > pour

> > > in.

> > > > > > But

> > > > > > > we

> > > > > > > > > > have to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > see where a particular result is flowing

> from --

> >

> > > from

> > > > > > L1

> > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > a

> > > > > > > > > > > > > particular hse, or other planet/lords'

> > > configuration.

> > > > > > You

> > > > > > > > agree?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > <==

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Apart from houses, I don't think anything

> such

> > > as

> > > > > > > > Planet/lords

> > > > > > > > > > etc

> > > > > > > > > > > > > comes in to play in the derivations you

> > provided.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > *Lord are of Signs; Houses does not have

any

> > > lords -

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > so

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > same

> > > > > > > > > > > > > is discarded.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > * Planets are not at all considered in

house

> > > based

> > > > > > > > derivation -

> > > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > so the same is discarded.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > I ascertain, the derivations are solely

> based

> > on

> > > > > > houses,

> > > > > > > > and so

> > > > > > > > > > > > > should be the logic behind. Yah, RK ji, you

> can

> > > > > proceed

> > > > > > > with

> > > > > > > > > > > > > explaining the logic behid each of those

> > > > > > derivations...

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Love and Hugs,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In

> > ,

> > > rk

> > > > > dash

> > > > > > > > > > > > > <arkaydash@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Shreenadh,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Here is the bhavashraya phala of L1 as

> found

> > > in the

> > > > > > > > compedium.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > There is an 'result' for the 5th hse, but

> I 'll

> > > take

> > > > > > time

> > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > make

> > > > > > > > > > > > out

> > > > > > > > > > > > > what is meant.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > In 1st house

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Healthy, long-lived, king(ly), strong,

> gain

> > of

> > > land

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2nd hse

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wealthy, engaged in right action, head of

> the

> > > > > > locality,

> > > > > > > > life

> > > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > plenty, corpulent

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3rd hse

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Has good friends, religiosity,

generosity;

> > > brave,

> > > > > > strong

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4th hse

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > King's favourite, lives life to the full

> > > (could

> > > > > also

> > > > > > > > > > mean 'very

> > > > > > > > > > > > > long-lived,' the expression being prachura-

> > > jivita),

> > > > > > earns

> > > > > > > > by

> > > > > > > > > > right

> > > > > > > > > > > > > means, devoted to father, voracious

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5th hse

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Good children, engaged in good deeds, has

> > > humility,

> > > > > > > known

> > > > > > > > his

> > > > > > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > > > > > > good qualities

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6th hse

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Healthy, strong, gain of land, miserly,

> rich,

> > > > > subdues

> > > > > > > > > > enemies, on

> > > > > > > > > > > > > the side of good deeds

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 7th hse

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Brilliant, good manners, cultured wife,

> > spends

> > > > > > himself

> > > > > > > > fast

> > > > > > > > > > > > > during coitus, good-looking

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 8th hse

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Miserly, unreliable in financial matters,

> > very

> > > long-

> > > > > > > > lived,

> > > > > > > > > > harsh

> > > > > > > > > > > > > in speech if the planet is a malefic, large

> > > physique

> > > > > if

> > > > > > a

> > > > > > > > > > benefic

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 9th hse

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Good people are his friends, good deeds,

> > > balanced

> > > > > > > (without

> > > > > > > > > > > > > extremes), cultured, known for his good

> deeds,

> > > > > brilliant

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th hse

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gains from ruler (state), learned,

> cultured,

> > > > > reverent

> > > > > > > > towards

> > > > > > > > > > > > > guru and mother, king, famous

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 11th hse

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Long-lived, has progeny, spends himself

> fast

> > > during

> > > > > > > > coitus,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > powerful

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 12th hse

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Harsh speech, very sharp mind, goes

> abroad, a

> > > free

> > > > > > > loader

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now, the rationale. Examples will of

couse

> > > pour in.

> > > > > > But

> > > > > > > > we

> > > > > > > > > > have

> > > > > > > > > > > > > to see where a particular result is flowing

> > > from --

> > > > > > from

> > > > > > > L1

> > > > > > > > in a

> > > > > > > > > > > > > particular hse, or other planet/lords'

> > > configuration.

> > > > > > You

> > > > > > > > agree?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > RK

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear RK ji,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I know of a compendium in vernacular

which

> > > collates

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > best

> > > > > > > > > > > > (best

> > > > > > > > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the compiler thought any particular

aspect

> > > from a

> > > > > > > classic

> > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > be)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > available, which goes into this aspect

> (lord

> > > going

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > different

> > > > > > > > > > > > > houses)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <==

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you provide the results

> derived/provided

> > > by

> > > > > that

> > > > > > > book

> > > > > > > > > > > > for " lagna

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > lord going to various houses " ? That could

> be

> > > much

> > > > > > > > beneficial

> > > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > our

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > current study - we will try to find the

> logic

> > > used

> > > > > > > behind

> > > > > > > > > > those

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > derivations, and accept or reject each of

> > > those

> > > > > > > > derivations;

> > > > > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > > > > > > usual

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > based on conditions such as -

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > * logical or not

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > * Real life experience supports the same

> or

> > not

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > It doesn't matter whether the source

> mention

> > > or the

> > > > > > > > Sanskrit

> > > > > > > > > > > > > original

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > is available or not - as long as the

> > > derivations

> > > > > are

> > > > > > > > logical,

> > > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > reflect the actual experience.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the 'material' looks very insightful

> stuff.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is very good point - which itself I

> > think

> > > > > > indicate

> > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > > > > > > could

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > be valuable material.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Love,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In

> > > , rk

> > > > > > dash

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <arkaydash@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK, Sree, that about sums up the

> scenario

> > on

> > > one

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > 7-

> > > > > > > > > > fold

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > method. But the search, esp. for rishi

> hora

> > > source

> > > > > > must

> > > > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > kept

> > > > > > > > > > > > on.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > know of a compedium in vernacular which

> > > collates

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > best

> > > > > > > > > > (best

> > > > > > > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > compiler thought any particular aspect

> from a

> > > > > classic

> > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > be)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > available, which goes into this aspect

> (lord

> > > going

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > different

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > houses) but there is no source mention

for

> > the

> > > > > > portion

> > > > > > > > nor is

> > > > > > > > > > > > there

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > the Sanskrit original for it unlike most

> > other

> > > > > > portions

> > > > > > > > in the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > compendium. Nevertheless the 'material'

> looks

> > > very

> > > > > > > > insightful

> > > > > > > > > > > > stuff.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is things like this that I had in

mind.

> > > Let's

> > > > > see.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RK

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear RK ji,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now we have to agree on who next to

> > Parasara

> > > we

> > > > > > take

> > > > > > > on

> > > > > > > > > > board

> > > > > > > > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > comparison. You have named two:

> Meenaraja

> > > Hora,

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > Hora

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Pradeepam.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Who else? We don't have to go by the

> > overall

> > > > > > > reputation

> > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > text.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We may narrow down our selection to the

> > > aspect of

> > > > > > > > > > > > interpretation

> > > > > > > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > question in a treatise that may not

> > > otherwise be

> > > > > > > rated

> > > > > > > > very

> > > > > > > > > > > > high.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > What

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > say?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So who else? I mean which other

> > authority/-

> > > ies

> > > > > or

> > > > > > > > > > classics?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <==

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This question is really difficult to

> > > answer.

> > > > > > Apart

> > > > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Parasara

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (for whom various versions of the

slokas

> > are

> > > > > > > available

> > > > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > same in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > almost all instances) Meena Raja Hora

> > > discusses

> > > > > it.

> > > > > > > The

> > > > > > > > > > > > statements

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from Meena Raja Hora is mentioned with

> > > utmost

> > > > > > > > importance in

> > > > > > > > > > > > Hora

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Ratna

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as well (at times they slightly variant

> > > versions

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > slokas

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > available in current printed verion of

> > Meena

> > > raja

> > > > > > > > hora).

> > > > > > > > > > Hora

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pradeepam is a text quoted with

> reverance

> > by

> > > the

> > > > > > > auther

> > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > Hora

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Sara

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (i.e. Nrisimha Daivanjna), a well known

> > > scholar

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > 17th

> > > > > > > > > > > > century.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Thus -

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Meenaraja hora gets double importance

> since

> > > > > > supported

> > > > > > > > by

> > > > > > > > > > Hora

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Ratna.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hora Pradeepam gets double importance

> since

> > > > > > supported

> > > > > > > > by

> > > > > > > > > > Hora

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Sara.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some other later day texts MIGHT have

> > > discussed

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > same at

> > > > > > > > > > > > times

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (though not extensively), but I am yet

> to

> > > make an

> > > > > > > > elaborate

> > > > > > > > > > > > > search for

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the same in texts like Sarvartha

> > Chintamani,

> > > > > Jataka

> > > > > > > > > > Parijata,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saravali, Phaladeepika etc. One or two

> > > > > rudimentary

> > > > > > > > slokas

> > > > > > > > > > > > related

> > > > > > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the same we may find in these texts as

> > well.

> > > Some

> > > > > > > slokas

> > > > > > > > > > > > relevant

> > > > > > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the may find a place in many ancient

> Rishi

> > > horas

> > > > > > > > (Whereever

> > > > > > > > > > I

> > > > > > > > > > > > find

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > such a reference I will quote them for

> > > sure). But

> > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > sure

> > > > > > > > > > none

> > > > > > > > > > > > > of the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > other texts (except BPHS, Meenaraja

> hora,

> > > Hora

> > > > > > > > Pradeepam)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > discusses

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this subject extensively in detail as

> per

> > my

> > > > > > current

> > > > > > > > > > knowledge

> > > > > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > understanding. As far as ancient texts

> > > (Rishi

> > > > > > horas)

> > > > > > > are

> > > > > > > > > > > > > concerned it

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is possible that the slokas that

discuss

> > > this

> > > > > > subject

> > > > > > > > > > > > extensively

> > > > > > > > > > > > > are

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > lost, even though they might have done

> the

> > > same

> > > > > > > (since

> > > > > > > > they

> > > > > > > > > > use

> > > > > > > > > > > > 7-

> > > > > > > > > > > > > fold

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > method).

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Love,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In

> > > ,

> > > > > rk

> > > > > > > dash

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <arkaydash@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, you are homing in on the " pure "

> > > point.

> > > > > > That's

> > > > > > > > what

> > > > > > > > > > this

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > particular aspect of interpretation of

a

> > > chart is

> > > > > > > > about.

> > > > > > > > > > That's

> > > > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > way (the part-way) to go about it --

> core

> > > task,

> > > > > > > > winkling the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > secrets

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > out of a chart. Now we have to agree on

> who

> > > next

> > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > Parasara we

> > > > > > > > > > > > > take

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > on board for comparision. You have

named

> > > two:

> > > > > > > Meenaraja

> > > > > > > > > > Hora,

> > > > > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Hora

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pradeepam. Who else? We don't have to

go

> by

> > > the

> > > > > > > overall

> > > > > > > > > > > > > reputation of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the text. We may narrow down our

> selection

> > > to the

> > > > > > > > aspect of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > interpretation in question in a

treatise

> > > that may

> > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > > > otherwise

> > > > > > > > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > rated very high. What say?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So who else? I mean which other

> > authority/-

> > > ies

> > > > > or

> > > > > > > > > > classics?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sotto Voce: I don't want us, you and

> me,

> > > to be

> > > > > > > > cynosures

> > > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > > (the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > galaxy of) our star-gazers in this

> > > firmament.

> > > > > > > Onlookers

> > > > > > > > all?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RK

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear RK ji,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are right - to the point. I

agree.

> > But

> > > as

> > > > > far

> > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > LL

> > > > > > > > > > going

> > > > > > > > > > > > > to H-7

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is concerned, the special point

> > > regarding ' if

> > > > > LL

> > > > > > > is a

> > > > > > > > > > > > malefic'

> > > > > > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mentioned in the sloka itself; there

> for

> > > we

> > > > > > cannot

> > > > > > > > > > discount

> > > > > > > > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > > > > > > as far

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as the prediction related to the same

> > > given in

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > sloka

> > > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > concerned.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For other results regarding LL in H-7

> > > (which we

> > > > > > > would

> > > > > > > > > > discuss

> > > > > > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > detail as this discussion progresses)

> I

> > > agree

> > > > > > > > absolutely

> > > > > > > > > > with

> > > > > > > > > > > > > your

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > logic and argument.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As far as LL in H-5 is concerned, I

> think

> > > there

> > > > > > > could

> > > > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > point

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mentioned under consideration (for

> BPHS

> > > > > > results)

> > > > > > > > even

> > > > > > > > > > > > though

> > > > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > same is NOT mentioned in the sloka.

> But

> > as

> > > you

> > > > > > have

> > > > > > > > > > clearly

> > > > > > > > > > > > > stated,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the normal expected result for the

> same

> > > SHOULD

> > > > > > > > > > BE ''susuta'

> > > > > > > > > > > > > (good

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > child, or birth of children). Let us

> keep

> > > this

> > > > > > > doubt

> > > > > > > > open

> > > > > > > > > > > > till

> > > > > > > > > > > > > we

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cross verify the results with the

> > > derivations

> > > > > > given

> > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > other

> > > > > > > > > > > > > texts and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > come to a logical

> conclusion/derivation.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We always have 2 options open to

cross

> > > check

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > > results

> > > > > > > > > > > > > predicted

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > by BPHS in this context-

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) Cross verify the results with the

> > > > > predictions

> > > > > > > > given in

> > > > > > > > > > > > other

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > texts (especially Meenaraja Hora &

> Hora

> > > > > Pradeepam)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Compare the predicted results with

> > > actual

> > > > > > > results

> > > > > > > > > > observed.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But still, the base rule as you

> pointed

> > > out is -

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==>

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What we are concerned at this stage

> of

> > > > > > > the 'ruling'

> > > > > > > > is:

> > > > > > > > > > L-1

> > > > > > > > > > > > > goes

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > H-5, L-1 goes to H-7 etc, other

> factors

> > > > > clearly

> > > > > > > > > > discounted.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Clear?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <==

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To state in other words, the base

rule

> > is -

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " LL going to H-1, H-2, H-3 etc ONLY

> > should

> > > be

> > > > > > > > considered,

> > > > > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > > > > other

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > factors (such as LL being

> > malefic/benefic,

> > > LL

> > > > > > being

> > > > > > > > > > aspected

> > > > > > > > > > > > by

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > malefic/benefic etc) should be

clearly

> > > > > discounted "

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We will even touch this base rule

with

> > > > > > corollaries,

> > > > > > > > ONLY

> > > > > > > > > > WHEN

> > > > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > special condition is mentioned in the

> > > sloka

> > > > > > itself;

> > > > > > > > just

> > > > > > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > contaminate the result indicated by

> the

> > > sloka.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If this corollary is not there, I

> agree

> > to

> > > your

> > > > > > > > statement

> > > > > > > > > > > > > completely.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Love,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In

> > > > > ,

> > > > > > rk

> > > > > > > > dash

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <arkaydash@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think we should keep out the

> factor

> > of

> > > L1

> > > > > > being

> > > > > > > a

> > > > > > > > > > natural

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > malefic -- the logic you have used

for

> > > those

> > > > > > > outcomes

> > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > L-1

> > > > > > > > > > > > > going to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5th, 7th hse (death of first child,

> > > > > uninterested

> > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > life/wife

> > > > > > > > > > > > > etc). If

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > we must, then we have to qualify the

> > > deduction,

> > > > > > > > > > saying " where

> > > > > > > > > > > > L-

> > > > > > > > > > > > > 5 (or

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > L-7) is a malefic or is afflicted " .

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What we are concerned at this stage

> of

> > > > > > > the 'ruling'

> > > > > > > > is:

> > > > > > > > > > L-1

> > > > > > > > > > > > > goes

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > H-5, L-1 goes to H-7 etc, other

> factors

> > > clearly

> > > > > > > > > > discounted.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Clear?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let's carry on,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RK

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear RK ji,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your concerns are right - important

> > > points

> > > > > > > > mentioned.

> > > > > > > > > > Let

> > > > > > > > > > > > us

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > together try to find out the

reasons

> > > based on

> > > > > > our

> > > > > > > > logic.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When in 1st : Uncertain in

decision

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lagna lord in lagna gives the

native

> > all

> > > the

> > > > > > good

> > > > > > > > > > qualities

> > > > > > > > > > > > > such as

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > compassion, kindness, softness of

> mind,

> > > > > > emotional

> > > > > > > > > > approach

> > > > > > > > > > > > > etc.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Result? Uncertainty in decision. I

> > think

> > > this

> > > > > > > > account

> > > > > > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > logical

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > basis of the above derivation.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When in 2nd: Many wives

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is just natural. 2nd and 11th

> > house

> > > > > > signify

> > > > > > > > second

> > > > > > > > > > > > > marriage.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When the lagna lord comes in

contact

> > > with any

> > > > > > > house

> > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > native is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sure to get the results related to

> > that.

> > > > > Lagna

> > > > > > > lord

> > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > 2nd

> > > > > > > > > > > > > house

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > makes the native beautiful,

> talkative,

> > > liked

> > > > > by

> > > > > > > > women

> > > > > > > > > > etc.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Thus it

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > turns out that it is natural to

have

> > > many

> > > > > > > relations

> > > > > > > > > > > > (wives).

> > > > > > > > > > > > > It

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > should be noted that for lagna lord

> in

> > > lagna,

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > lagna

> > > > > > > > > > > > lord

> > > > > > > > > > > > > in 2nd

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > house - 2 wives and many wives are

> > > derived -

> > > > > > NOT

> > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > a

> > > > > > > > > > bad

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > result, but

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as a good result; indicating that

> the

> > > native

> > > > > > will

> > > > > > > > have

> > > > > > > > > > every

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > kind of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > luxury including women.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When in 3rd : Many kinds of

> wealth, 2

> > > wives

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Valorous - thus many kinds of

> wealth;

> > > 3rd is

> > > > > a

> > > > > > > house

> > > > > > > > > > > > usually

> > > > > > > > > > > > > is of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > MIXED nature indicating

> > > mixed/various/many

> > > > > > > results.

> > > > > > > > > > That is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > why the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > derivation 'Many kinds of wealth'.

> 2nd

> > > from

> > > > > > 2nd -

> > > > > > > > many

> > > > > > > > > > > > kinds

> > > > > > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wealth - i think this is why you

> doubt

> > > that

> > > > > it

> > > > > > > > could be

> > > > > > > > > > due

> > > > > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > bhavat

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > bhavam. 2 wives - i have no idea

> supply

> > > in

> > > > > this

> > > > > > > > regard.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When in 4th: Lust

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No idea as of now.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When in 5th: Angry, loss of the

> 1st

> > > child

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th, any

> affliction

> > > to it

> > > > > > can

> > > > > > > > affect

> > > > > > > > > > > > both

> > > > > > > > > > > > > 5th

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > house and lagna equally - making a

> > > double

> > > > > > impact.

> > > > > > > > That

> > > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > > why

> > > > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > prediction 'loss of child'. Why 1st

> > > child -

> > > > > 5th

> > > > > > > > signify

> > > > > > > > > > 1st

> > > > > > > > > > > > > child

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > more i doubt. Possibly here

Parasara

> > > deviates

> > > > > > a

> > > > > > > bit

> > > > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > conventional prediction owing to

the

> > > > > > possibility

> > > > > > > > > > of 'double

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > impact' i

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > think. The standard prediction

> should

> > be

> > > (we

> > > > > > will

> > > > > > > > > > verify)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > gain of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > child, as you mentioned. (But first

> the

> > > child

> > > > > > > > should be

> > > > > > > > > > > > born

> > > > > > > > > > > > > for it

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to perish - this may make both the

> > > > > derivations

> > > > > > > > > > consistent)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When in 7th: Uninterested in

> worldly

> > > life

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > wife

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This applies only if lagna lord is

a

> > > malefic.

> > > > > > > > Therefore

> > > > > > > > > > it

> > > > > > > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > logically ok.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When in 12th: Good health

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No idea as of now.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Love,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In

> > > > > > ,

> > > > > > > rk

> > > > > > > > dash

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <arkaydash@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Good start. I agree. First

> > theoretical

> > > > > > > > consideration

> > > > > > > > > > then

> > > > > > > > > > > > > we test

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the rules against actual charts.

> Here's

> > > a

> > > > > small

> > > > > > > > > > beginning

> > > > > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > examination of lagna lord's

> bhavashraya

> > > phala

> > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > BHPH.

> > > > > > > > > > I'll

> > > > > > > > > > > > go

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > about

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it by first picking out those phala

> > > (results)

> > > > > > > which

> > > > > > > > are

> > > > > > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > > > > > > self-

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > evident. Here they are:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When in 1st

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Uncertain in decision

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When in 2nd

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Many wives

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When in 3rd

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Many kinds of wealth (bhavat

> > bhavam?),

> > > 2

> > > > > wives

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When in 4th

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lust

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When in 5th

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Angry, loss of the 1st child

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When in 7th

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Uninterested in worldly life and

> wife

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When in 12th

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Good health

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > These results are not easy to

> > discern,

> > > > > given

> > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > first

> > > > > > > > > > > > > factor

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (the linkage of the the self to the

> > > > > department

> > > > > > > > > > represented

> > > > > > > > > > > > by

> > > > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > house the lagna lord tenants) and

> the

> > > > > sweeping

> > > > > > > good

> > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > > > > lagna lord

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > brings to the bhava it goes to.

Take

> > its

> > > > > > > placement

> > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > 5th.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Why loss

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of child at all? Most other works

> > > > > > > declare, 'susuta',

> > > > > > > > > > > > meaning

> > > > > > > > > > > > > good

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > progeny. I'll cite one such at a

> later

> > > stage

> > > > > > for

> > > > > > > > all

> > > > > > > > > > house

> > > > > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > tenancy

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as far as 1st lord is concerned.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > One more thing I'd like to think

> > aloud

> > > > > about.

> > > > > > > > Rule

> > > > > > > > > > says

> > > > > > > > > > > > > that any

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > lord that goes to a dusthana will

> bring

> > > > > > detriment

> > > > > > > > to the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > house the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > planet is lord of. Now how do we

> > > reconcile

> > > > > the

> > > > > > L1

> > > > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > 12th

> > > > > > > > > > > > > ensuring

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > good health? Will it take care of

> the

> > > > > attrition

> > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > body

> > > > > > > > > > > > (12th

> > > > > > > > > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1st hse, ie body) without itself

> being

> > > > > subject

> > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > detriment?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > RK

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear All,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The primary derivations for Lagna

> > lord

> > > in

> > > > > > > various

> > > > > > > > > > houses

> > > > > > > > > > > > as

> > > > > > > > > > > > > per

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BPHS is given below. I invite all

to

> > > start a

> > > > > > > > discussion

> > > > > > > > > > on

> > > > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > same.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > =================================

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As per BPHS, for Lagna lord in -

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lagna: healthy body, courageous,

> > > uncertain

> > > > > in

> > > > > > > > > > decisions,

> > > > > > > > > > > > 2

> > > > > > > > > > > > > wives

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2nd house: knowledgeable, good

> > > earnings,

> > > > > > > > happiness,

> > > > > > > > > > good

> > > > > > > > > > > > > habits,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > righteous, many wives, good

> qualities.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3rd house: valorous like a lion,

> all

> > > kinds

> > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > wealth,

> > > > > > > > > > 2

> > > > > > > > > > > > > wives,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > intelligent.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4th house: love and affection

from

> > > healthy

> > > > > > > mother

> > > > > > > > with

> > > > > > > > > > > > good

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > longevity, many brothers/sisters,

> lust,

> > > > > beauty

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > good

> > > > > > > > > > > > > qualities.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5th house: angry, moderate

> happiness

> > > from

> > > > > > > > children,

> > > > > > > > > > loss

> > > > > > > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > first

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > born (child), admired by government

> and

> > > > > > > authorities.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6th house: (especially if

aspected

> by

> > > > > > malefics)

> > > > > > > > > > trouble

> > > > > > > > > > > > > from

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > enemies, bad health.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 7th house: (especially if Lagna

> lord

> > > is a

> > > > > > > > malefic) his

> > > > > > > > > > > > wife

> > > > > > > > > > > > > will

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > die early (or married life will not

> go

> > > long),

> > > > > > he

> > > > > > > > will

> > > > > > > > > > > > become

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > uninterested in worldly life and

> wife,

> > > will

> > > > > be

> > > > > > > > detached

> > > > > > > > > > > > > towards his

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > native land and wander/visit many

> > > places, It

> > > > > is

> > > > > > > > possible

> > > > > > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > > > > he

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > won't be much wealthy (he would be

a

> > > poor

> > > > > man)

> > > > > > or

> > > > > > > > also

> > > > > > > > > > that

> > > > > > > > > > > > he

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > would

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > be a very wealthy person like a

king.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 8th house: master of some branch

> of

> > > > > > knowledge,

> > > > > > > > > > troubled

> > > > > > > > > > > > by

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > diseases, interested in others

> wives,

> > > will be

> > > > > > > > > > interested in

> > > > > > > > > > > > > all

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > kinds

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of games such as cards, chess,

dice,

> > > lottery

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > so

> > > > > > > > on,

> > > > > > > > > > > > very

> > > > > > > > > > > > > much

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > angry.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 9th house: lucky, loved by the

> > public,

> > > > > > devotee

> > > > > > > of

> > > > > > > > > > Vishnu,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > master of

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > words and oratory, will have good

> > wealth

> > > wife

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > > > children.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10th house: admired by government

> and

> > > > > people

> > > > > > in

> > > > > > > > power

> > > > > > > > > > > > (the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > native

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > will have a good job), he would be

a

> > > > > government

> > > > > > > > servant,

> > > > > > > > > > > > very

> > > > > > > > > > > > > much

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > popular.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 11th house: much income from many

> > > sources,

> > > > > > good

> > > > > > > > > > > > popularity

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (popularity due to good deeds,

> > > celebrity),

> > > > > good

> > > > > > > > > > qualities,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > many

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > wives.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 12th house: good health,

> extravagant

> > > > > without

> > > > > > > > reason,

> > > > > > > > > > > > angry

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (especially if not benefics are

> present

> > > in

> > > > > 12th

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > if

> > > > > > > > > > no

> > > > > > > > > > > > > benefic

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > aspects 12th)

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > =================================

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Love,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In

> > > > > > > ,

> > > > > > > > manju

> > > > > > > > > > > > > chawla

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <manjuch2001@> wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank You Sreenadhji

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > we would learn this subject in

> this

> > > > > way.You

> > > > > > > are

> > > > > > > > > > really

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > helping us

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > God bless you

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > manju

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh sreesog@ wrote:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear All,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let us start a new discussion

on

> > the

> > > > > > > > subject " What

> > > > > > > > > > > > should

> > > > > > > > > > > > > be

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > predicted for Lagna lord in

> Various

> > > > > > houses? " -

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > let

> > > > > > > > > > the

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > discussion

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > go

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > first and then comparison of it

> > with

> > > > > actual

> > > > > > > > results.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Love,

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " I am careful not to confuse

> > > excellence

> > > > > with

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > perfection,Excellence-I can reach

> > > > > > for,Perfection

> > > > > > > is

> > > > > > > > > > God's

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > business---

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Michael J.Fox

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------

-

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ready for the edge of your

seat?

> > > Check

> > > > > out

> > > > > > > > > > tonight's top

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > picks on

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > TV.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Get the freedom to save as many

> mails

> > > as

> > > > > you

> > > > > > > > wish.

> > > > > > > > > > Click

> > > > > > > > > > > > > here to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > know how.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Get the freedom to save as many

> mails

> > as

> > > you

> > > > > > > wish.

> > > > > > > > Click

> > > > > > > > > > > > here

> > > > > > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > know how.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Try the revolutionary next-gen

> > > Mail.

> > > > > Click

> > > > > > > > here.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Unlimited freedom, unlimited storage.

> Get

> > it

> > > now

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Get the freedom to save as many mails as

> you

> > > wish.

> > > > > > > Click

> > > > > > > > here

> > > > > > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > > > > > > know how.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Get the freedom to save as many mails as

you

> > > wish.

> > > > > > Click

> > > > > > > > here to

> > > > > > > > > > > > know how.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Why delete messages? Unlimited storage is just a click

> away.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!

> > > > > > > Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's

> > > economy) at

> > > > > > Games.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Download prohibited? No problem. CHAT from any browser,

> > > without

> > > > > download.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Travelling to a new city? Search for ATMs in that city.

> Click

> > > here.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

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