Guest guest Posted January 1, 2003 Report Share Posted January 1, 2003 || Jaya Jagannatha || Dear Sanjay Prabhakaran, Thank you for putting this query. Actually most of us know many such sutras, however we don't question, why does it make sense! I also read this before, and didn't question. However, this mail put me into thinking. Generally, when a lord is placed in a house, we assume that the lord behaves somewhat like the karaka of the house and we see the interaction of the lord with the karaka of the house it is placed. Using the same principle, we may think this as the result of the placement of Sun in the 5th house. However, this explains only the part of the Sutra Viz., 1. He will be honourable and favourite to king - Royal Planet Sun placed in the trine. 2. Given to anger - fiery Sun's placement in the trine. The native will be intelligent as the karaka of 5th is Jupiter and it is affecting on the Dhi (Lagna lord) and the interaction of Sun and Jup is pretty healthy. However, the question asked by you is not answered, by the relationship which I defined above. However, if you take the natural zodiac, the natural 5th is Leo and the Badhakesh for Leo is the 9th lord, or the badhakashathana becomes Aries, which is the lagna of the natural zodiac. So the Lagnesh becomes the badhakesh for the natural 5th. The placement of the badhakesh in any house shall show the problem related to that house. Hence the lgnesha placed in the 5th house shows the native shall have mediocre happiness. I would guess that if the sambandha of the karaka of the 1st and 5th was not that good, the happiness would have been nil. However, because of the healthy relationship between the Lagna and the 5th karaka, Sun and Jup, the evil placement of the badhakesh is countered to a large extent, giving at least some happiness. If somebody clarify why does it show loss of first child, it would be really great. I guess, probably Sun signify one or the leader. Pranaam Sarajit Poddar sanjayprabhakaran <sprabhakaran [sprabhakaran] 01 January 2003 05:22 [sJC: Achyuta Gurukul] Lagna lord in 5th house || Om Gurave Namah || Dear Gurudeva and Jyotishas, I was thinking why lagna lord in 5th is told to give bad effects in terms of children longevity and anger. lagneshe sutage jantoH sutasaukhyaM cha madhyamam.h | prathamApatyanAshaH syAnmAnI krodhI nR^ipapriyaH || BPHS 24.5 (santanam)|| 5. If Lagn's Lord is in Putr Bhava, the native will have mediocre progenic happiness, will lose his first child, be honourable, given to anger and be dear to king. Similar view is also in CoVA and HTJH-How to Judge Horoscope BVRaman. Thank you, Warm Regards, S. Prabhakaran [Om Kleem Krishnaaya Jagannathaaya namah] Send a blank mail To : - To : - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2007 Report Share Posted September 27, 2007 Dear All, The results for Lagna lord in 5th house is discussed below. ============================================== Lagna lord in 5th House ----------------------------- If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be proud an individual with much self-respect and reputation and a bit angry but righteous and kind. He will have children. He may have moderate well-being from children and may lose his first child as well, especially if there is some malefic influence on 5th house. He would be dear to the people with power and authority. He will have good authority or rulership and will enjoy a good eventful and enjoyable life. Bestowed with good qualities, he will do many good deeds. If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be angry; will have moderate well-being from children. The native will lose his first child. He would be a proud individual with much self-respect and reputation. He would be dear to the king. - Parasara Hora Why should lagna lord going to 5th make the native an angry and aggressive individual? One of the logic behind could be - 5th is 3rd from 3rd house; and Upachaya (increase) stana of 3rd house. 3rd house signify anger and possibly that is why lagna lord in 5th increases the anger and agitation of the native. But also not that 5th is 2nd house from 4th (simple and humble mind) making the native a straight forward individual. It is also mentioned in the sloka that the native will lose his first child - why? The natural expectation would be that lagna lord in 5th should bestow good results for 5th, thus providing children and happiness from children to the native. Of course if lagna lord is in 5th is afflicted by some malefic, then it would have double impact, since the same would affect both the 5th house and the lagna lord amplifying the possibility for bad result. Since 5th could signify the first child the bad result could be attributed to the first child as well. Actually this is what we see mentioned in Meenaraja hora. But Parasara provides no such clue about any required malefic influence in 5th house! We are wonder stuck by this derivation, and we fail to imagine any solid reason behind such a derivation in the absence of any malefic influence on 5th house. Another version of the same sloka is available, which also provides similar results. If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be proud; will have moderate well-being from children. He will lose his first child. He would be angry and will have special privileges in the king's place. - Parasara Hora Apart from minor differences this sloka gives almost same results as above. It seems that, the loss of first child should be predicted only if there is a malefic influence in 5th house, since the other available slokas give good results concerning children if lagna lord is in 5th house. [Note that similar to in this sloka Parasara will not mention `if the lagna lord is malefic and placed in x house' in many other slokas as well. We will encounter this writing style related issue in many other instances as well] Let us see what Meenaraja has to say. If lagna lord is in 5th house, the native will have children, righteous and kind. He will have good authority or rulership and will enjoy a good eventful and enjoyable life. Bestowed with good qualities, he will do many good deeds. - Meenaraja Hora In one printed version of Meenaraja Hora the word Suseela is quoted as Sugeeta (Good in singing). Select the proper word based on actual experience observed. Note that as per Meenaraja lagna lord in 5th `provides children' and does not `destroy children'. Even though Parasara only says that `lose of first child could happen', he too does not say that `the native will not have children'. If we combine the statements of both Parasara and Meenaraja the only conclusion we could reach is `The native will have children, but he may loss his first child as well'. But it should be noted that the loss of first child does not seems to be logically supported in the absence of malefic influence on 5th house - this was my initial inference. (An amendment is proposed later) The sloka provided by Hora Pradeepam is almost the same as that of Meenaraja. If lagna lord is in 5th house, the native will have children, righteous and kind. He will have good authority or rulership and will enjoy a good eventful and happy life. Bestowed with good qualities, he will do many good deeds. - Hora Pradeepam Parasara says that Lagna lord in 5th would make the native angry - why? Clearly any direct logic is not visible. Sun is the natural significator of Lagna. If we are considering lagna lord in 5th as similar to sun in 5th, then the above derivation would be justified and possibly the lose of first child as well. But is it a correct approach? I am doubtful. Only verifying the actual results from charts with similar combination can shed some light on this issue. Rule 5: Lagna lord in any house should be treated similar to Sun in that house, since Sun is the natural significator of Lagna. I am a bit doubtful about the validity of the above rule. If not supported by actual results it is better to ignore the above rule. The logic supplied till now does not seem to be capable enough to satisfactorily explain the strong results proposed by Parasara such as - Lagna lord in 5th causing the loss of first child; it will also make the native an angry individual. There should be some other logic as well. On retrospect we feel that - Parasara will not say something without a sold reason. Why should he bring planets base result (e.g. benefic/malefic) into it, when he was dealing with House base prediction? That is not logical. There could be some other in-depth reason. Yes, you are right - there is. Let us analyze all the possible houses and lagna lord in their fifth house, and check whether the same can cause the loss of child - 1) Aries lagna, lagna lord Mars in Leo: Yes, Leo is a sign signifying less children, and Mars a malefic in it can indicate loss of child for sure. 2) Taurus lagna, lagna lord Venus in Virgo: Virgo is the debilitation sign for Venus. Also not that Venus owns the lordship of 6th house as well. Thus for sure for Taurus lagna Venus in 5th can indicate loss of child for sure. 3) Gemini lagna, lagna lord Me in Libra: Note that Venus the lord of Libra owns the 12th house (house indicating death) as well. Possibly the combination can indicate loss or death. 4) Cancer lagna, Moon in Scorpio: Scorpio is the debilitation sign for Moon. Ofcourse the same can indicate the loss of child. 5) Leo lagna, Sun in Sagittarius: Note that the lord of Sagittarius Jupiter owns the 8th house (death) as well. Thus certainly the combination can indicate the loss or death of child. 6) Virgo lagna, Me in Capricorn: The lord of Capricorn Saturn owns the 6th house as well. Possibly the combination can indicate bad results such as loss of child - amended by the fact that both Mercury and Saturn are imbecile planets. 7) Libra lagna, Venus in Aquarius: Note that lagna lord Venus is also the 8th lord. Certainly 8th lord is a malefic, and a malefic placed in 5th can indicate lose of child. If you continue this analysis, you could see that for most of the 12 signs, lagna lord placed in 5th can indicate the loss of child, even though the same does not match perfectly for Aquarius and Pisces Lagna. Thus it becomes clear that Parasara was not making a statement without base or without understanding. His derivation sprung from the deep understanding that `for all the 12 signs, lagna lord in 5th is not favorably placed, and this can be crystallized into the brief statement - lagna lord in 5th can indicate bad results such as - loss of first child and anger'. Then is it that Meenaraja was wrong and Parasara was right? No, it is not so. Meenaraja was deriving a result based on the prime condition – Lagna lord in 5th alone. For this prime combination Meenaraja's derivation is absolutely right. But Parasara's amendment springs from his deep understanding of the zodiac. He knew that the general statement regarding lagna lord in other houses may not be completely true for lagna lord in 5th, due to essential mutually co-related nature of the signs itself. So his opinion would be, `Yes, Meenaraja is right. But you know the Signs in Zodiac, they have some specific connection to death as far as 5th house is concerned. So your general derivation as proposed by Meenaraja will not work in this case. Consider this special nature of 5th from all the signs and modify your derivation accordingly. The you will see that, lagna lord in 5th can signify many bad results such as loss of first child and anger'. It must be this deeper understanding which prompted Parasara to suggest such a result. Yes, Meenaraja is right, but Parasara is also not off the mark. Meenaraja is concerned with the general logic of the derivation only, but Parasara goes deeper in the general zodiacal context. Note it - possibly in other situations as well the same could be the case - Parasara has a better understanding about the zodiacal context, and may mix it with general result derivation. His thought and understanding penetrates into deaths; and is more far and wide. He is not depended on mere logic alone - he is more practical. It is because of this in-depth understanding; Parasara is termed a sage, but Meenaraja a king, a scholar. But even this understanding of Parasara view does not does not allow me to pardon him - because here to derive the result he mixed the methods of Sign-House Base result derivation, while dealing with House Base result derivation - causing confusion to the learner. I would suggest that, in this context, the beginners should stick to the cleaner and systematic approach proposed by Meenaraja, while trying to master House Base result derivation technique. The deeper possibilities and modification to the suggested results should dealt with and understood, while trying to learn Sign-House Base result derivation technique. The 5th house signifies things such as - children, intelligence, creativity, genius, stomach, belly, ministers, secret hymns recited etc. Thus the placement of lagna lord in 5th generates special importance to the derivations related to the same. Extract from: Sreenadh/Lagna%20lord%20in%20Various%20Houses.pdf ============================================== Love, Sreenadh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2007 Report Share Posted September 27, 2007 Dear Srinadh, Perhapse u have not checked malific influence on 5'th house with horoscopes,However, i appreciate ur efforts to understand the consequences of 5'th house as well as lagna lord's placement in 5'th house. A malific influence in 5'th does not always lead to loss of the first child, this placement sometimes give girl child, death of child is an extreme result which happens in cases of extreme malificance. I remember once u said during discussion of BB that 4'th house may denote loss of child, if 4'th there are other house as well as with reference to 5'th house. If u r doing a commentary on the ancient classics, ur approach is right and there is lot to learn from such writings, but as far as learning is concerned, more urge to study and dissect the obsecure cases is required. same way, 5'th has connection to 11'th house, the house of gains, this combination of lagna lord's placement in 5'th house makes a person too much ambitious, self cenetered, he is self promting so should be aggressive coz his rise is his main objective of the life. This is what i observed. regards, Lalit. , " Sreenadh " <sreesog wrote: > > > Dear All, > > The results for Lagna lord in 5th house is discussed below. > > ============================================== > Lagna lord in 5th House > ----------------------------- > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be proud an individual with > much self-respect and reputation and a bit angry but righteous and kind. > He will have children. He may have moderate well-being from children and > may lose his first child as well, especially if there is some malefic > influence on 5th house. He would be dear to the people with power and > authority. He will have good authority or rulership and will enjoy a > good eventful and enjoyable life. Bestowed with good qualities, he will > do many good deeds. > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be angry; will have moderate > well-being from children. The native will lose his first child. He would > be a proud individual with much self-respect and reputation. He would be > dear to the king. > > - Parasara Hora > > Why should lagna lord going to 5th make the native an angry and > aggressive individual? One of the logic behind could be - 5th is 3rd > from 3rd house; and Upachaya (increase) stana of 3rd house. 3rd house > signify anger and possibly that is why lagna lord in 5th increases the > anger and agitation of the native. But also not that 5th is 2nd house > from 4th (simple and humble mind) making the native a straight forward > individual. It is also mentioned in the sloka that the native will lose > his first child - why? The natural expectation would be that lagna lord > in 5th should bestow good results for 5th, thus providing children and > happiness from children to the native. Of course if lagna lord is in 5th > is afflicted by some malefic, then it would have double impact, since > the same would affect both the 5th house and the lagna lord amplifying > the possibility for bad result. Since 5th could signify the first child > the bad result could be attributed to the first child as well. Actually > this is what we see mentioned in Meenaraja hora. But Parasara provides > no such clue about any required malefic influence in 5th house! We are > wonder stuck by this derivation, and we fail to imagine any solid reason > behind such a derivation in the absence of any malefic influence on 5th > house. Another version of the same sloka is available, which also > provides similar results. > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be proud; will have moderate > well-being from children. He will lose his first child. He would be > angry and will have special privileges in the king's place. > > - Parasara Hora > > Apart from minor differences this sloka gives almost same results as > above. It seems that, the loss of first child should be predicted only > if there is a malefic influence in 5th house, since the other available > slokas give good results concerning children if lagna lord is in 5th > house. [Note that similar to in this sloka Parasara will not mention > `if the lagna lord is malefic and placed in x house' in many > other slokas as well. We will encounter this writing style related issue > in many other instances as well] Let us see what Meenaraja has to say. > > If lagna lord is in 5th house, the native will have children, righteous > and kind. He will have good authority or rulership and will enjoy a good > eventful and enjoyable life. Bestowed with good qualities, he will do > many good deeds. > > - Meenaraja Hora > > In one printed version of Meenaraja Hora the word Suseela is quoted as > Sugeeta (Good in singing). Select the proper word based on actual > experience observed. > > Note that as per Meenaraja lagna lord in 5th `provides children' > and does not `destroy children'. Even though Parasara only says > that `lose of first child could happen', he too does not say > that `the native will not have children'. If we combine the > statements of both Parasara and Meenaraja the only conclusion we could > reach is `The native will have children, but he may loss his first > child as well'. But it should be noted that the loss of first child > does not seems to be logically supported in the absence of malefic > influence on 5th house - this was my initial inference. (An amendment is > proposed later) The sloka provided by Hora Pradeepam is almost the same > as that of Meenaraja. > > If lagna lord is in 5th house, the native will have children, righteous > and kind. He will have good authority or rulership and will enjoy a good > eventful and happy life. Bestowed with good qualities, he will do many > good deeds. > > - Hora Pradeepam > > Parasara says that Lagna lord in 5th would make the native angry - why? > Clearly any direct logic is not visible. Sun is the natural significator > of Lagna. If we are considering lagna lord in 5th as similar to sun in > 5th, then the above derivation would be justified and possibly the lose > of first child as well. But is it a correct approach? I am doubtful. > Only verifying the actual results from charts with similar combination > can shed some light on this issue. > > Rule 5: Lagna lord in any house should be treated similar to Sun in that > house, since Sun is the natural significator of Lagna. > > I am a bit doubtful about the validity of the above rule. If not > supported by actual results it is better to ignore the above rule. The > logic supplied till now does not seem to be capable enough to > satisfactorily explain the strong results proposed by Parasara such as - > Lagna lord in 5th causing the loss of first child; it will also make the > native an angry individual. There should be some other logic as well. > > On retrospect we feel that - Parasara will not say something without a > sold reason. Why should he bring planets base result (e.g. > benefic/malefic) into it, when he was dealing with House base > prediction? That is not logical. There could be some other in-depth > reason. Yes, you are right - there is. Let us analyze all the possible > houses and lagna lord in their fifth house, and check whether the same > can cause the loss of child - > > 1) Aries lagna, lagna lord Mars in Leo: Yes, Leo is a sign signifying > less children, and Mars a malefic in it can indicate loss of child for > sure. > > 2) Taurus lagna, lagna lord Venus in Virgo: Virgo is the debilitation > sign for Venus. Also not that Venus owns the lordship of 6th house as > well. Thus for sure for Taurus lagna Venus in 5th can indicate loss of > child for sure. > > 3) Gemini lagna, lagna lord Me in Libra: Note that Venus the lord of > Libra owns the 12th house (house indicating death) as well. Possibly the > combination can indicate loss or death. > > 4) Cancer lagna, Moon in Scorpio: Scorpio is the debilitation sign for > Moon. Ofcourse the same can indicate the loss of child. > > 5) Leo lagna, Sun in Sagittarius: Note that the lord of Sagittarius > Jupiter owns the 8th house (death) as well. Thus certainly the > combination can indicate the loss or death of child. > > 6) Virgo lagna, Me in Capricorn: The lord of Capricorn Saturn owns the > 6th house as well. Possibly the combination can indicate bad results > such as loss of child - amended by the fact that both Mercury and Saturn > are imbecile planets. > > 7) Libra lagna, Venus in Aquarius: Note that lagna lord Venus is also > the 8th lord. Certainly 8th lord is a malefic, and a malefic placed in > 5th can indicate lose of child. > > If you continue this analysis, you could see that for most of the 12 > signs, lagna lord placed in 5th can indicate the loss of child, even > though the same does not match perfectly for Aquarius and Pisces Lagna. > Thus it becomes clear that Parasara was not making a statement without > base or without understanding. His derivation sprung from the deep > understanding that `for all the 12 signs, lagna lord in 5th is not > favorably placed, and this can be crystallized into the brief statement > - lagna lord in 5th can indicate bad results such as - loss of first > child and anger'. Then is it that Meenaraja was wrong and Parasara > was right? No, it is not so. Meenaraja was deriving a result based on > the prime condition – Lagna lord in 5th alone. For this prime > combination Meenaraja's derivation is absolutely right. But > Parasara's amendment springs from his deep understanding of the > zodiac. He knew that the general statement regarding lagna lord in other > houses may not be completely true for lagna lord in 5th, due to > essential mutually co-related nature of the signs itself. So his opinion > would be, `Yes, Meenaraja is right. But you know the Signs in > Zodiac, they have some specific connection to death as far as 5th house > is concerned. So your general derivation as proposed by Meenaraja will > not work in this case. Consider this special nature of 5th from all the > signs and modify your derivation accordingly. The you will see that, > lagna lord in 5th can signify many bad results such as loss of first > child and anger'. It must be this deeper understanding which > prompted Parasara to suggest such a result. Yes, Meenaraja is right, but > Parasara is also not off the mark. Meenaraja is concerned with the > general logic of the derivation only, but Parasara goes deeper in the > general zodiacal context. Note it - possibly in other situations as well > the same could be the case - Parasara has a better understanding about > the zodiacal context, and may mix it with general result derivation. His > thought and understanding penetrates into deaths; and is more far and > wide. He is not depended on mere logic alone - he is more practical. It > is because of this in-depth understanding; Parasara is termed a sage, > but Meenaraja a king, a scholar. > > But even this understanding of Parasara view does not does not allow me > to pardon him - because here to derive the result he mixed the methods > of Sign-House Base result derivation, while dealing with House Base > result derivation - causing confusion to the learner. I would suggest > that, in this context, the beginners should stick to the cleaner and > systematic approach proposed by Meenaraja, while trying to master House > Base result derivation technique. The deeper possibilities and > modification to the suggested results should dealt with and understood, > while trying to learn Sign-House Base result derivation technique. > The 5th house signifies things such as - children, intelligence, > creativity, genius, stomach, belly, ministers, secret hymns recited etc. > Thus the placement of lagna lord in 5th generates special importance to > the derivations related to the same. > > Extract from: > Sreenadh/ La\ > gna%20lord%20in%20Various%20Houses.pdf > ============================================== > Love, > Sreenadh > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2007 Report Share Posted September 27, 2007 Dear Lalit ji, Did you ever been an astrologer? I think not. Just simply learn! Love, Sreenadh , " litsol " <mlalit wrote: > > Dear Srinadh, > > Perhapse u have not checked malific influence on 5'th house with > horoscopes,However, i appreciate ur efforts to understand the > consequences of 5'th house as well as lagna lord's placement in 5'th > house. > > A malific influence in 5'th does not always lead to loss of the first > child, this placement sometimes give girl child, death of child is an > extreme result which happens in cases of extreme malificance. I > remember once u said during discussion of BB that 4'th house may > denote loss of child, if 4'th there are other house as well as with > reference to 5'th house. > > If u r doing a commentary on the ancient classics, ur approach is > right and there is lot to learn from such writings, but as far as > learning is concerned, more urge to study and dissect the obsecure > cases is required. > > same way, 5'th has connection to 11'th house, the house of gains, > this combination of lagna lord's placement in 5'th house makes a > person too much ambitious, self cenetered, he is self promting so > should be aggressive coz his rise is his main objective of the life. > > This is what i observed. > > regards, > Lalit. > > > > > > , " Sreenadh " > <sreesog@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > The results for Lagna lord in 5th house is discussed below. > > > > ============================================== > > Lagna lord in 5th House > > ----------------------------- > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be proud an individual > with > > much self-respect and reputation and a bit angry but righteous and > kind. > > He will have children. He may have moderate well-being from > children and > > may lose his first child as well, especially if there is some > malefic > > influence on 5th house. He would be dear to the people with power > and > > authority. He will have good authority or rulership and will enjoy a > > good eventful and enjoyable life. Bestowed with good qualities, he > will > > do many good deeds. > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be angry; will have > moderate > > well-being from children. The native will lose his first child. He > would > > be a proud individual with much self-respect and reputation. He > would be > > dear to the king. > > > > - Parasara Hora > > > > Why should lagna lord going to 5th make the native an angry and > > aggressive individual? One of the logic behind could be - 5th is 3rd > > from 3rd house; and Upachaya (increase) stana of 3rd house. 3rd > house > > signify anger and possibly that is why lagna lord in 5th increases > the > > anger and agitation of the native. But also not that 5th is 2nd > house > > from 4th (simple and humble mind) making the native a straight > forward > > individual. It is also mentioned in the sloka that the native will > lose > > his first child - why? The natural expectation would be that lagna > lord > > in 5th should bestow good results for 5th, thus providing children > and > > happiness from children to the native. Of course if lagna lord is > in 5th > > is afflicted by some malefic, then it would have double impact, > since > > the same would affect both the 5th house and the lagna lord > amplifying > > the possibility for bad result. Since 5th could signify the first > child > > the bad result could be attributed to the first child as well. > Actually > > this is what we see mentioned in Meenaraja hora. But Parasara > provides > > no such clue about any required malefic influence in 5th house! We > are > > wonder stuck by this derivation, and we fail to imagine any solid > reason > > behind such a derivation in the absence of any malefic influence on > 5th > > house. Another version of the same sloka is available, which also > > provides similar results. > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be proud; will have > moderate > > well-being from children. He will lose his first child. He would be > > angry and will have special privileges in the king's place. > > > > - Parasara Hora > > > > Apart from minor differences this sloka gives almost same results as > > above. It seems that, the loss of first child should be predicted > only > > if there is a malefic influence in 5th house, since the other > available > > slokas give good results concerning children if lagna lord is in 5th > > house. [Note that similar to in this sloka Parasara will not mention > > `if the lagna lord is malefic and placed in x house' in many > > other slokas as well. We will encounter this writing style related > issue > > in many other instances as well] Let us see what Meenaraja has to > say. > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th house, the native will have children, > righteous > > and kind. He will have good authority or rulership and will enjoy a > good > > eventful and enjoyable life. Bestowed with good qualities, he will > do > > many good deeds. > > > > - Meenaraja Hora > > > > In one printed version of Meenaraja Hora the word Suseela is quoted > as > > Sugeeta (Good in singing). Select the proper word based on actual > > experience observed. > > > > Note that as per Meenaraja lagna lord in 5th `provides children' > > and does not `destroy children'. Even though Parasara only says > > that `lose of first child could happen', he too does not say > > that `the native will not have children'. If we combine the > > statements of both Parasara and Meenaraja the only conclusion we > could > > reach is `The native will have children, but he may loss his first > > child as well'. But it should be noted that the loss of first child > > does not seems to be logically supported in the absence of malefic > > influence on 5th house - this was my initial inference. (An > amendment is > > proposed later) The sloka provided by Hora Pradeepam is almost the > same > > as that of Meenaraja. > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th house, the native will have children, > righteous > > and kind. He will have good authority or rulership and will enjoy a > good > > eventful and happy life. Bestowed with good qualities, he will do > many > > good deeds. > > > > - Hora Pradeepam > > > > Parasara says that Lagna lord in 5th would make the native angry - > why? > > Clearly any direct logic is not visible. Sun is the natural > significator > > of Lagna. If we are considering lagna lord in 5th as similar to sun > in > > 5th, then the above derivation would be justified and possibly the > lose > > of first child as well. But is it a correct approach? I am doubtful. > > Only verifying the actual results from charts with similar > combination > > can shed some light on this issue. > > > > Rule 5: Lagna lord in any house should be treated similar to Sun in > that > > house, since Sun is the natural significator of Lagna. > > > > I am a bit doubtful about the validity of the above rule. If not > > supported by actual results it is better to ignore the above rule. > The > > logic supplied till now does not seem to be capable enough to > > satisfactorily explain the strong results proposed by Parasara such > as - > > Lagna lord in 5th causing the loss of first child; it will also > make the > > native an angry individual. There should be some other logic as > well. > > > > On retrospect we feel that - Parasara will not say something > without a > > sold reason. Why should he bring planets base result (e.g. > > benefic/malefic) into it, when he was dealing with House base > > prediction? That is not logical. There could be some other in- depth > > reason. Yes, you are right - there is. Let us analyze all the > possible > > houses and lagna lord in their fifth house, and check whether the > same > > can cause the loss of child - > > > > 1) Aries lagna, lagna lord Mars in Leo: Yes, Leo is a sign > signifying > > less children, and Mars a malefic in it can indicate loss of child > for > > sure. > > > > 2) Taurus lagna, lagna lord Venus in Virgo: Virgo is the > debilitation > > sign for Venus. Also not that Venus owns the lordship of 6th house > as > > well. Thus for sure for Taurus lagna Venus in 5th can indicate loss > of > > child for sure. > > > > 3) Gemini lagna, lagna lord Me in Libra: Note that Venus the lord of > > Libra owns the 12th house (house indicating death) as well. > Possibly the > > combination can indicate loss or death. > > > > 4) Cancer lagna, Moon in Scorpio: Scorpio is the debilitation sign > for > > Moon. Ofcourse the same can indicate the loss of child. > > > > 5) Leo lagna, Sun in Sagittarius: Note that the lord of Sagittarius > > Jupiter owns the 8th house (death) as well. Thus certainly the > > combination can indicate the loss or death of child. > > > > 6) Virgo lagna, Me in Capricorn: The lord of Capricorn Saturn owns > the > > 6th house as well. Possibly the combination can indicate bad results > > such as loss of child - amended by the fact that both Mercury and > Saturn > > are imbecile planets. > > > > 7) Libra lagna, Venus in Aquarius: Note that lagna lord Venus is > also > > the 8th lord. Certainly 8th lord is a malefic, and a malefic placed > in > > 5th can indicate lose of child. > > > > If you continue this analysis, you could see that for most of the 12 > > signs, lagna lord placed in 5th can indicate the loss of child, even > > though the same does not match perfectly for Aquarius and Pisces > Lagna. > > Thus it becomes clear that Parasara was not making a statement > without > > base or without understanding. His derivation sprung from the deep > > understanding that `for all the 12 signs, lagna lord in 5th is not > > favorably placed, and this can be crystallized into the brief > statement > > - lagna lord in 5th can indicate bad results such as - loss of first > > child and anger'. Then is it that Meenaraja was wrong and Parasara > > was right? No, it is not so. Meenaraja was deriving a result based > on > > the prime condition – Lagna lord in 5th alone. For this prime > > combination Meenaraja's derivation is absolutely right. But > > Parasara's amendment springs from his deep understanding of the > > zodiac. He knew that the general statement regarding lagna lord in > other > > houses may not be completely true for lagna lord in 5th, due to > > essential mutually co-related nature of the signs itself. So his > opinion > > would be, `Yes, Meenaraja is right. But you know the Signs in > > Zodiac, they have some specific connection to death as far as 5th > house > > is concerned. So your general derivation as proposed by Meenaraja > will > > not work in this case. Consider this special nature of 5th from all > the > > signs and modify your derivation accordingly. The you will see that, > > lagna lord in 5th can signify many bad results such as loss of first > > child and anger'. It must be this deeper understanding which > > prompted Parasara to suggest such a result. Yes, Meenaraja is > right, but > > Parasara is also not off the mark. Meenaraja is concerned with the > > general logic of the derivation only, but Parasara goes deeper in > the > > general zodiacal context. Note it - possibly in other situations as > well > > the same could be the case - Parasara has a better understanding > about > > the zodiacal context, and may mix it with general result > derivation. His > > thought and understanding penetrates into deaths; and is more far > and > > wide. He is not depended on mere logic alone - he is more > practical. It > > is because of this in-depth understanding; Parasara is termed a > sage, > > but Meenaraja a king, a scholar. > > > > But even this understanding of Parasara view does not does not > allow me > > to pardon him - because here to derive the result he mixed the > methods > > of Sign-House Base result derivation, while dealing with House Base > > result derivation - causing confusion to the learner. I would > suggest > > that, in this context, the beginners should stick to the cleaner and > > systematic approach proposed by Meenaraja, while trying to master > House > > Base result derivation technique. The deeper possibilities and > > modification to the suggested results should dealt with and > understood, > > while trying to learn Sign-House Base result derivation technique. > > The 5th house signifies things such as - children, intelligence, > > creativity, genius, stomach, belly, ministers, secret hymns recited > etc. > > Thus the placement of lagna lord in 5th generates special > importance to > > the derivations related to the same. > > > > Extract from: > > > Sreenadh/ > La\ > > gna%20lord%20in%20Various%20Houses.pdf > > ============================================== > > Love, > > Sreenadh > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2007 Report Share Posted September 27, 2007 Dear Srinadh, Pls. tell where i m wrong in finding such shortcomings in what u tried to derive and explain after the translation, in fact, i saw, u urself tried to understand what is missing, struggled a lot, but just stopped before touching the crux, a gap remained is to cover up. I suggested something for the betterment only. loss doesn't mean death, it may be girl child, it may be hopeless child, it may be a child with poor health, we need to be more specific while deriving the results and explaining them to group. be admissive and keep a holistic approach so that a right learning approach could be developed having inputs from every one, otherwise, there are chances for the entire hardwork to be confined to mere translation of some shlokas, which i think, is certainly not the objective. if u mind and dont consider what u r told, i have no business to interrupt you, u can move on ur ways. regards, Lalit. , " Sreenadh " <sreesog wrote: > > Dear Lalit ji, > Did you ever been an astrologer? I think not. Just simply learn! > Love, > Sreenadh > > , " litsol " > <mlalit@> wrote: > > > > Dear Srinadh, > > > > Perhapse u have not checked malific influence on 5'th house with > > horoscopes,However, i appreciate ur efforts to understand the > > consequences of 5'th house as well as lagna lord's placement in > 5'th > > house. > > > > A malific influence in 5'th does not always lead to loss of the > first > > child, this placement sometimes give girl child, death of child is > an > > extreme result which happens in cases of extreme malificance. I > > remember once u said during discussion of BB that 4'th house may > > denote loss of child, if 4'th there are other house as well as with > > reference to 5'th house. > > > > If u r doing a commentary on the ancient classics, ur approach is > > right and there is lot to learn from such writings, but as far as > > learning is concerned, more urge to study and dissect the obsecure > > cases is required. > > > > same way, 5'th has connection to 11'th house, the house of gains, > > this combination of lagna lord's placement in 5'th house makes a > > person too much ambitious, self cenetered, he is self promting so > > should be aggressive coz his rise is his main objective of the life. > > > > This is what i observed. > > > > regards, > > Lalit. > > > > > > > > > > > > , " Sreenadh " > > <sreesog@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > > > The results for Lagna lord in 5th house is discussed below. > > > > > > ============================================== > > > Lagna lord in 5th House > > > ----------------------------- > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be proud an individual > > with > > > much self-respect and reputation and a bit angry but righteous > and > > kind. > > > He will have children. He may have moderate well-being from > > children and > > > may lose his first child as well, especially if there is some > > malefic > > > influence on 5th house. He would be dear to the people with power > > and > > > authority. He will have good authority or rulership and will > enjoy a > > > good eventful and enjoyable life. Bestowed with good qualities, > he > > will > > > do many good deeds. > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be angry; will have > > moderate > > > well-being from children. The native will lose his first child. > He > > would > > > be a proud individual with much self-respect and reputation. He > > would be > > > dear to the king. > > > > > > - Parasara Hora > > > > > > Why should lagna lord going to 5th make the native an angry and > > > aggressive individual? One of the logic behind could be - 5th is > 3rd > > > from 3rd house; and Upachaya (increase) stana of 3rd house. 3rd > > house > > > signify anger and possibly that is why lagna lord in 5th > increases > > the > > > anger and agitation of the native. But also not that 5th is 2nd > > house > > > from 4th (simple and humble mind) making the native a straight > > forward > > > individual. It is also mentioned in the sloka that the native > will > > lose > > > his first child - why? The natural expectation would be that > lagna > > lord > > > in 5th should bestow good results for 5th, thus providing > children > > and > > > happiness from children to the native. Of course if lagna lord is > > in 5th > > > is afflicted by some malefic, then it would have double impact, > > since > > > the same would affect both the 5th house and the lagna lord > > amplifying > > > the possibility for bad result. Since 5th could signify the first > > child > > > the bad result could be attributed to the first child as well. > > Actually > > > this is what we see mentioned in Meenaraja hora. But Parasara > > provides > > > no such clue about any required malefic influence in 5th house! > We > > are > > > wonder stuck by this derivation, and we fail to imagine any solid > > reason > > > behind such a derivation in the absence of any malefic influence > on > > 5th > > > house. Another version of the same sloka is available, which also > > > provides similar results. > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be proud; will have > > moderate > > > well-being from children. He will lose his first child. He would > be > > > angry and will have special privileges in the king's place. > > > > > > - Parasara Hora > > > > > > Apart from minor differences this sloka gives almost same results > as > > > above. It seems that, the loss of first child should be predicted > > only > > > if there is a malefic influence in 5th house, since the other > > available > > > slokas give good results concerning children if lagna lord is in > 5th > > > house. [Note that similar to in this sloka Parasara will not > mention > > > `if the lagna lord is malefic and placed in x house' in many > > > other slokas as well. We will encounter this writing style > related > > issue > > > in many other instances as well] Let us see what Meenaraja has to > > say. > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th house, the native will have children, > > righteous > > > and kind. He will have good authority or rulership and will enjoy > a > > good > > > eventful and enjoyable life. Bestowed with good qualities, he > will > > do > > > many good deeds. > > > > > > - Meenaraja Hora > > > > > > In one printed version of Meenaraja Hora the word Suseela is > quoted > > as > > > Sugeeta (Good in singing). Select the proper word based on actual > > > experience observed. > > > > > > Note that as per Meenaraja lagna lord in 5th `provides children' > > > and does not `destroy children'. Even though Parasara only says > > > that `lose of first child could happen', he too does not say > > > that `the native will not have children'. If we combine the > > > statements of both Parasara and Meenaraja the only conclusion we > > could > > > reach is `The native will have children, but he may loss his first > > > child as well'. But it should be noted that the loss of first > child > > > does not seems to be logically supported in the absence of malefic > > > influence on 5th house - this was my initial inference. (An > > amendment is > > > proposed later) The sloka provided by Hora Pradeepam is almost > the > > same > > > as that of Meenaraja. > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th house, the native will have children, > > righteous > > > and kind. He will have good authority or rulership and will enjoy > a > > good > > > eventful and happy life. Bestowed with good qualities, he will do > > many > > > good deeds. > > > > > > - Hora Pradeepam > > > > > > Parasara says that Lagna lord in 5th would make the native angry - > > > why? > > > Clearly any direct logic is not visible. Sun is the natural > > significator > > > of Lagna. If we are considering lagna lord in 5th as similar to > sun > > in > > > 5th, then the above derivation would be justified and possibly > the > > lose > > > of first child as well. But is it a correct approach? I am > doubtful. > > > Only verifying the actual results from charts with similar > > combination > > > can shed some light on this issue. > > > > > > Rule 5: Lagna lord in any house should be treated similar to Sun > in > > that > > > house, since Sun is the natural significator of Lagna. > > > > > > I am a bit doubtful about the validity of the above rule. If not > > > supported by actual results it is better to ignore the above > rule. > > The > > > logic supplied till now does not seem to be capable enough to > > > satisfactorily explain the strong results proposed by Parasara > such > > as - > > > Lagna lord in 5th causing the loss of first child; it will also > > make the > > > native an angry individual. There should be some other logic as > > well. > > > > > > On retrospect we feel that - Parasara will not say something > > without a > > > sold reason. Why should he bring planets base result (e.g. > > > benefic/malefic) into it, when he was dealing with House base > > > prediction? That is not logical. There could be some other in- > depth > > > reason. Yes, you are right - there is. Let us analyze all the > > possible > > > houses and lagna lord in their fifth house, and check whether the > > same > > > can cause the loss of child - > > > > > > 1) Aries lagna, lagna lord Mars in Leo: Yes, Leo is a sign > > signifying > > > less children, and Mars a malefic in it can indicate loss of > child > > for > > > sure. > > > > > > 2) Taurus lagna, lagna lord Venus in Virgo: Virgo is the > > debilitation > > > sign for Venus. Also not that Venus owns the lordship of 6th > house > > as > > > well. Thus for sure for Taurus lagna Venus in 5th can indicate > loss > > of > > > child for sure. > > > > > > 3) Gemini lagna, lagna lord Me in Libra: Note that Venus the lord > of > > > Libra owns the 12th house (house indicating death) as well. > > Possibly the > > > combination can indicate loss or death. > > > > > > 4) Cancer lagna, Moon in Scorpio: Scorpio is the debilitation > sign > > for > > > Moon. Ofcourse the same can indicate the loss of child. > > > > > > 5) Leo lagna, Sun in Sagittarius: Note that the lord of > Sagittarius > > > Jupiter owns the 8th house (death) as well. Thus certainly the > > > combination can indicate the loss or death of child. > > > > > > 6) Virgo lagna, Me in Capricorn: The lord of Capricorn Saturn > owns > > the > > > 6th house as well. Possibly the combination can indicate bad > results > > > such as loss of child - amended by the fact that both Mercury and > > Saturn > > > are imbecile planets. > > > > > > 7) Libra lagna, Venus in Aquarius: Note that lagna lord Venus is > > also > > > the 8th lord. Certainly 8th lord is a malefic, and a malefic > placed > > in > > > 5th can indicate lose of child. > > > > > > If you continue this analysis, you could see that for most of the > 12 > > > signs, lagna lord placed in 5th can indicate the loss of child, > even > > > though the same does not match perfectly for Aquarius and Pisces > > Lagna. > > > Thus it becomes clear that Parasara was not making a statement > > without > > > base or without understanding. His derivation sprung from the deep > > > understanding that `for all the 12 signs, lagna lord in 5th is not > > > favorably placed, and this can be crystallized into the brief > > statement > > > - lagna lord in 5th can indicate bad results such as - loss of > first > > > child and anger'. Then is it that Meenaraja was wrong and Parasara > > > was right? No, it is not so. Meenaraja was deriving a result > based > > on > > > the prime condition – Lagna lord in 5th alone. For this prime > > > combination Meenaraja's derivation is absolutely right. But > > > Parasara's amendment springs from his deep understanding of the > > > zodiac. He knew that the general statement regarding lagna lord > in > > other > > > houses may not be completely true for lagna lord in 5th, due to > > > essential mutually co-related nature of the signs itself. So his > > opinion > > > would be, `Yes, Meenaraja is right. But you know the Signs in > > > Zodiac, they have some specific connection to death as far as 5th > > house > > > is concerned. So your general derivation as proposed by Meenaraja > > will > > > not work in this case. Consider this special nature of 5th from > all > > the > > > signs and modify your derivation accordingly. The you will see > that, > > > lagna lord in 5th can signify many bad results such as loss of > first > > > child and anger'. It must be this deeper understanding which > > > prompted Parasara to suggest such a result. Yes, Meenaraja is > > right, but > > > Parasara is also not off the mark. Meenaraja is concerned with the > > > general logic of the derivation only, but Parasara goes deeper in > > the > > > general zodiacal context. Note it - possibly in other situations > as > > well > > > the same could be the case - Parasara has a better understanding > > about > > > the zodiacal context, and may mix it with general result > > derivation. His > > > thought and understanding penetrates into deaths; and is more far > > and > > > wide. He is not depended on mere logic alone - he is more > > practical. It > > > is because of this in-depth understanding; Parasara is termed a > > sage, > > > but Meenaraja a king, a scholar. > > > > > > But even this understanding of Parasara view does not does not > > allow me > > > to pardon him - because here to derive the result he mixed the > > methods > > > of Sign-House Base result derivation, while dealing with House > Base > > > result derivation - causing confusion to the learner. I would > > suggest > > > that, in this context, the beginners should stick to the cleaner > and > > > systematic approach proposed by Meenaraja, while trying to master > > House > > > Base result derivation technique. The deeper possibilities and > > > modification to the suggested results should dealt with and > > understood, > > > while trying to learn Sign-House Base result derivation technique. > > > The 5th house signifies things such as - children, intelligence, > > > creativity, genius, stomach, belly, ministers, secret hymns > recited > > etc. > > > Thus the placement of lagna lord in 5th generates special > > importance to > > > the derivations related to the same. > > > > > > Extract from: > > > > > > Sreenadh/ > > La\ > > > gna%20lord%20in%20Various%20Houses.pdf > > > ============================================== > > > Love, > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2007 Report Share Posted September 27, 2007 Dear Lalit ji, Malefic effect in 5th causing many troubles is a known fact to all astrologers - no explanation is needed on the same. Knowing what those troubles are, needs considering a lot of other parameters. Deriving the details - which uses several methodologies such as Bhavat Bhava Chinta, Karkat Bhava chinta, considering other combinations - know that there is a big distance to go and it is not that simple. What we are doing here is not trying to reach some inflexible conclusion; or to analyze someone's horoscope; but to see to what extend the slokas on 'House Base' derivation technique can point to. Try to understand things in the context they are. When you are trying your own bit of logic in something - present it that way; Instead of saying this is right or that is wrong, or somewhere else is the crux. Present - as per your logic you think it could be so and so. (Don't bring in I have seen such and such in some horoscope and so let us discuss that horoscope strategy as well - that is not the way. If the same combination is present in some known horoscope - the combination alone can be considered for verification, and other feature or details of that horoscope should be neglected. We should stick to the context and the method of study). Loss can mean many things - * It could be abortion * It could untimely death of son at a later age (as in the case of Indira Gandhi) * It could be a missing son Or there could be many other possibilities as well. Neither the sloka nor we are going in to that details - instead what we are doing is 'Trying to learn the logical background and concepts used in House Base derivation by the sages; and thus trying to master that technique' - know this well. ==> > there are chances for the entire hard work to be confined to mere > translation of some shlokas, which i think, is certainly not the > objective. <== Clearly the above words come from lack of understanding of objective and strategy, of this group. Please check - * The previous mails on the same thread * The files in the files folder dealing with similar things (i.e. Articles related to 7-fold result derivation technique of astrology) * Thus instead of starting afresh were you land yourself in the forum, create a background to deal with the subject in hand, systematically. Note: The document regarding " Lagna lord in various houses was there in file section for many days, and mails about file uploading goes to every member, the main thread of discussion is on the same; but alas! the never read or refer to such files and instead depend on the posted mails alone! No serious learner who approach astrology shouldn't follow such a method. He should download and study them before putting in his bit - and that SHOULD BE a well thought out one - depicting his sincerity and earnest effort to understand and learn the path shown by the sages " . Whether such a view matches with mine or not is irrelevant. But the contribution should be valuable - coming out from research, experience and effort. Hope the confusion is clarified. Love and Hugs, Sreenadh , " litsol " <mlalit wrote: > > Dear Srinadh, > > Pls. tell where i m wrong in finding such shortcomings in what u > tried to derive and explain after the translation, in fact, i saw, u > urself tried to understand what is missing, struggled a lot, but just > stopped before touching the crux, a gap remained is to cover up. > > I suggested something for the betterment only. > > loss doesn't mean death, it may be girl child, it may be hopeless > child, it may be a child with poor health, we need to be more specific > while deriving the results and explaining them to group. > > be admissive and keep a holistic approach so that a right learning > approach could be developed having inputs from every one, otherwise, > there are chances for the entire hardwork to be confined to mere > translation of some shlokas, which i think, is certainly not the > objective. > > if u mind and dont consider what u r told, i have no business to > interrupt you, u can move on ur ways. > > regards, > Lalit. > > > , " Sreenadh " > <sreesog@> wrote: > > > > Dear Lalit ji, > > Did you ever been an astrologer? I think not. Just simply learn! > > Love, > > Sreenadh > > > > , " litsol " > > <mlalit@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Srinadh, > > > > > > Perhapse u have not checked malific influence on 5'th house with > > > horoscopes,However, i appreciate ur efforts to understand the > > > consequences of 5'th house as well as lagna lord's placement in > > 5'th > > > house. > > > > > > A malific influence in 5'th does not always lead to loss of the > > first > > > child, this placement sometimes give girl child, death of child > is > > an > > > extreme result which happens in cases of extreme malificance. I > > > remember once u said during discussion of BB that 4'th house may > > > denote loss of child, if 4'th there are other house as well as > with > > > reference to 5'th house. > > > > > > If u r doing a commentary on the ancient classics, ur approach is > > > right and there is lot to learn from such writings, but as far as > > > learning is concerned, more urge to study and dissect the > obsecure > > > cases is required. > > > > > > same way, 5'th has connection to 11'th house, the house of gains, > > > this combination of lagna lord's placement in 5'th house makes a > > > person too much ambitious, self cenetered, he is self promting so > > > should be aggressive coz his rise is his main objective of the > life. > > > > > > This is what i observed. > > > > > > regards, > > > Lalit. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " Sreenadh " > > > <sreesog@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > > > > > The results for Lagna lord in 5th house is discussed below. > > > > > > > > ============================================== > > > > Lagna lord in 5th House > > > > ----------------------------- > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be proud an > individual > > > with > > > > much self-respect and reputation and a bit angry but righteous > > and > > > kind. > > > > He will have children. He may have moderate well-being from > > > children and > > > > may lose his first child as well, especially if there is some > > > malefic > > > > influence on 5th house. He would be dear to the people with > power > > > and > > > > authority. He will have good authority or rulership and will > > enjoy a > > > > good eventful and enjoyable life. Bestowed with good qualities, > > he > > > will > > > > do many good deeds. > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be angry; will have > > > moderate > > > > well-being from children. The native will lose his first child. > > He > > > would > > > > be a proud individual with much self-respect and reputation. He > > > would be > > > > dear to the king. > > > > > > > > - Parasara Hora > > > > > > > > Why should lagna lord going to 5th make the native an angry and > > > > aggressive individual? One of the logic behind could be - 5th > is > > 3rd > > > > from 3rd house; and Upachaya (increase) stana of 3rd house. 3rd > > > house > > > > signify anger and possibly that is why lagna lord in 5th > > increases > > > the > > > > anger and agitation of the native. But also not that 5th is 2nd > > > house > > > > from 4th (simple and humble mind) making the native a straight > > > forward > > > > individual. It is also mentioned in the sloka that the native > > will > > > lose > > > > his first child - why? The natural expectation would be that > > lagna > > > lord > > > > in 5th should bestow good results for 5th, thus providing > > children > > > and > > > > happiness from children to the native. Of course if lagna lord > is > > > in 5th > > > > is afflicted by some malefic, then it would have double impact, > > > since > > > > the same would affect both the 5th house and the lagna lord > > > amplifying > > > > the possibility for bad result. Since 5th could signify the > first > > > child > > > > the bad result could be attributed to the first child as well. > > > Actually > > > > this is what we see mentioned in Meenaraja hora. But Parasara > > > provides > > > > no such clue about any required malefic influence in 5th house! > > We > > > are > > > > wonder stuck by this derivation, and we fail to imagine any > solid > > > reason > > > > behind such a derivation in the absence of any malefic > influence > > on > > > 5th > > > > house. Another version of the same sloka is available, which > also > > > > provides similar results. > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be proud; will have > > > moderate > > > > well-being from children. He will lose his first child. He > would > > be > > > > angry and will have special privileges in the king's place. > > > > > > > > - Parasara Hora > > > > > > > > Apart from minor differences this sloka gives almost same > results > > as > > > > above. It seems that, the loss of first child should be > predicted > > > only > > > > if there is a malefic influence in 5th house, since the other > > > available > > > > slokas give good results concerning children if lagna lord is > in > > 5th > > > > house. [Note that similar to in this sloka Parasara will not > > mention > > > > `if the lagna lord is malefic and placed in x house' in many > > > > other slokas as well. We will encounter this writing style > > related > > > issue > > > > in many other instances as well] Let us see what Meenaraja has > to > > > say. > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th house, the native will have children, > > > righteous > > > > and kind. He will have good authority or rulership and will > enjoy > > a > > > good > > > > eventful and enjoyable life. Bestowed with good qualities, he > > will > > > do > > > > many good deeds. > > > > > > > > - Meenaraja Hora > > > > > > > > In one printed version of Meenaraja Hora the word Suseela is > > quoted > > > as > > > > Sugeeta (Good in singing). Select the proper word based on > actual > > > > experience observed. > > > > > > > > Note that as per Meenaraja lagna lord in 5th `provides children' > > > > and does not `destroy children'. Even though Parasara only says > > > > that `lose of first child could happen', he too does not say > > > > that `the native will not have children'. If we combine the > > > > statements of both Parasara and Meenaraja the only conclusion > we > > > could > > > > reach is `The native will have children, but he may loss his > first > > > > child as well'. But it should be noted that the loss of first > > child > > > > does not seems to be logically supported in the absence of > malefic > > > > influence on 5th house - this was my initial inference. (An > > > amendment is > > > > proposed later) The sloka provided by Hora Pradeepam is almost > > the > > > same > > > > as that of Meenaraja. > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th house, the native will have children, > > > righteous > > > > and kind. He will have good authority or rulership and will > enjoy > > a > > > good > > > > eventful and happy life. Bestowed with good qualities, he will > do > > > many > > > > good deeds. > > > > > > > > - Hora Pradeepam > > > > > > > > Parasara says that Lagna lord in 5th would make the native > angry - > > > > > why? > > > > Clearly any direct logic is not visible. Sun is the natural > > > significator > > > > of Lagna. If we are considering lagna lord in 5th as similar to > > sun > > > in > > > > 5th, then the above derivation would be justified and possibly > > the > > > lose > > > > of first child as well. But is it a correct approach? I am > > doubtful. > > > > Only verifying the actual results from charts with similar > > > combination > > > > can shed some light on this issue. > > > > > > > > Rule 5: Lagna lord in any house should be treated similar to > Sun > > in > > > that > > > > house, since Sun is the natural significator of Lagna. > > > > > > > > I am a bit doubtful about the validity of the above rule. If not > > > > supported by actual results it is better to ignore the above > > rule. > > > The > > > > logic supplied till now does not seem to be capable enough to > > > > satisfactorily explain the strong results proposed by Parasara > > such > > > as - > > > > Lagna lord in 5th causing the loss of first child; it will also > > > make the > > > > native an angry individual. There should be some other logic as > > > well. > > > > > > > > On retrospect we feel that - Parasara will not say something > > > without a > > > > sold reason. Why should he bring planets base result (e.g. > > > > benefic/malefic) into it, when he was dealing with House base > > > > prediction? That is not logical. There could be some other in- > > depth > > > > reason. Yes, you are right - there is. Let us analyze all the > > > possible > > > > houses and lagna lord in their fifth house, and check whether > the > > > same > > > > can cause the loss of child - > > > > > > > > 1) Aries lagna, lagna lord Mars in Leo: Yes, Leo is a sign > > > signifying > > > > less children, and Mars a malefic in it can indicate loss of > > child > > > for > > > > sure. > > > > > > > > 2) Taurus lagna, lagna lord Venus in Virgo: Virgo is the > > > debilitation > > > > sign for Venus. Also not that Venus owns the lordship of 6th > > house > > > as > > > > well. Thus for sure for Taurus lagna Venus in 5th can indicate > > loss > > > of > > > > child for sure. > > > > > > > > 3) Gemini lagna, lagna lord Me in Libra: Note that Venus the > lord > > of > > > > Libra owns the 12th house (house indicating death) as well. > > > Possibly the > > > > combination can indicate loss or death. > > > > > > > > 4) Cancer lagna, Moon in Scorpio: Scorpio is the debilitation > > sign > > > for > > > > Moon. Ofcourse the same can indicate the loss of child. > > > > > > > > 5) Leo lagna, Sun in Sagittarius: Note that the lord of > > Sagittarius > > > > Jupiter owns the 8th house (death) as well. Thus certainly the > > > > combination can indicate the loss or death of child. > > > > > > > > 6) Virgo lagna, Me in Capricorn: The lord of Capricorn Saturn > > owns > > > the > > > > 6th house as well. Possibly the combination can indicate bad > > results > > > > such as loss of child - amended by the fact that both Mercury > and > > > Saturn > > > > are imbecile planets. > > > > > > > > 7) Libra lagna, Venus in Aquarius: Note that lagna lord Venus > is > > > also > > > > the 8th lord. Certainly 8th lord is a malefic, and a malefic > > placed > > > in > > > > 5th can indicate lose of child. > > > > > > > > If you continue this analysis, you could see that for most of > the > > 12 > > > > signs, lagna lord placed in 5th can indicate the loss of child, > > even > > > > though the same does not match perfectly for Aquarius and > Pisces > > > Lagna. > > > > Thus it becomes clear that Parasara was not making a statement > > > without > > > > base or without understanding. His derivation sprung from the > deep > > > > understanding that `for all the 12 signs, lagna lord in 5th is > not > > > > favorably placed, and this can be crystallized into the brief > > > statement > > > > - lagna lord in 5th can indicate bad results such as - loss of > > first > > > > child and anger'. Then is it that Meenaraja was wrong and > Parasara > > > > was right? No, it is not so. Meenaraja was deriving a result > > based > > > on > > > > the prime condition – Lagna lord in 5th alone. For this prime > > > > combination Meenaraja's derivation is absolutely right. But > > > > Parasara's amendment springs from his deep understanding of the > > > > zodiac. He knew that the general statement regarding lagna lord > > in > > > other > > > > houses may not be completely true for lagna lord in 5th, due to > > > > essential mutually co-related nature of the signs itself. So > his > > > opinion > > > > would be, `Yes, Meenaraja is right. But you know the Signs in > > > > Zodiac, they have some specific connection to death as far as > 5th > > > house > > > > is concerned. So your general derivation as proposed by > Meenaraja > > > will > > > > not work in this case. Consider this special nature of 5th from > > all > > > the > > > > signs and modify your derivation accordingly. The you will see > > that, > > > > lagna lord in 5th can signify many bad results such as loss of > > first > > > > child and anger'. It must be this deeper understanding which > > > > prompted Parasara to suggest such a result. Yes, Meenaraja is > > > right, but > > > > Parasara is also not off the mark. Meenaraja is concerned with > the > > > > general logic of the derivation only, but Parasara goes deeper > in > > > the > > > > general zodiacal context. Note it - possibly in other > situations > > as > > > well > > > > the same could be the case - Parasara has a better > understanding > > > about > > > > the zodiacal context, and may mix it with general result > > > derivation. His > > > > thought and understanding penetrates into deaths; and is more > far > > > and > > > > wide. He is not depended on mere logic alone - he is more > > > practical. It > > > > is because of this in-depth understanding; Parasara is termed a > > > sage, > > > > but Meenaraja a king, a scholar. > > > > > > > > But even this understanding of Parasara view does not does not > > > allow me > > > > to pardon him - because here to derive the result he mixed the > > > methods > > > > of Sign-House Base result derivation, while dealing with House > > Base > > > > result derivation - causing confusion to the learner. I would > > > suggest > > > > that, in this context, the beginners should stick to the > cleaner > > and > > > > systematic approach proposed by Meenaraja, while trying to > master > > > House > > > > Base result derivation technique. The deeper possibilities and > > > > modification to the suggested results should dealt with and > > > understood, > > > > while trying to learn Sign-House Base result derivation > technique. > > > > The 5th house signifies things such as - children, intelligence, > > > > creativity, genius, stomach, belly, ministers, secret hymns > > recited > > > etc. > > > > Thus the placement of lagna lord in 5th generates special > > > importance to > > > > the derivations related to the same. > > > > > > > > Extract from: > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh/ > > > La\ > > > > gna%20lord%20in%20Various%20Houses.pdf > > > > ============================================== > > > > Love, > > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2007 Report Share Posted September 27, 2007 Dear Srinadh, Do u mean, If u r not clear somewhere or u r missing something and someone points out to the mising point, he himself lacks the understanding, very good approach, sorry to interrupt this time, now onwards will never try to correct you. However,u urself asked the question in ur post - " Why should lagna lord going to 5th make the native an angry and aggressive individual " and tried to understand the reason, if ur post is only house specific why u raise such questions and then try to find answers, simply i thuoght to correct ur effort with my understanding but ur attitude is very different,So much inclination in teaching is affecting ur's learning only. regards, Lalit , " Sreenadh " <sreesog wrote: > > Dear Lalit ji, > Malefic effect in 5th causing many troubles is a known fact to all > astrologers - no explanation is needed on the same. Knowing what > those troubles are, needs considering a lot of other parameters. > Deriving the details - which uses several methodologies such as > Bhavat Bhava Chinta, Karkat Bhava chinta, considering other > combinations - know that there is a big distance to go and it is not > that simple. > What we are doing here is not trying to reach some inflexible > conclusion; or to analyze someone's horoscope; but to see to what > extend the slokas on 'House Base' derivation technique can point to. > Try to understand things in the context they are. > When you are trying your own bit of logic in something - present it > that way; Instead of saying this is right or that is wrong, or > somewhere else is the crux. Present - as per your logic you think it > could be so and so. (Don't bring in I have seen such and such in some > horoscope and so let us discuss that horoscope strategy as well - > that is not the way. If the same combination is present in some known > horoscope - the combination alone can be considered for verification, > and other feature or details of that horoscope should be neglected. > We should stick to the context and the method of study). Loss can > mean many things - > * It could be abortion > * It could untimely death of son at a later age (as in the case of > Indira Gandhi) > * It could be a missing son Or there could be many other > possibilities as well. > Neither the sloka nor we are going in to that details - instead what > we are doing is 'Trying to learn the logical background and concepts > used in House Base derivation by the sages; and thus trying to master > that technique' - know this well. > ==> > > there are chances for the entire hard work to be confined to mere > > translation of some shlokas, which i think, is certainly not the > > objective. > <== > Clearly the above words come from lack of understanding of objective > and strategy, of this group. Please check - > * The previous mails on the same thread > * The files in the files folder dealing with similar things (i.e. > Articles related to 7-fold result derivation technique of astrology) > * Thus instead of starting afresh were you land yourself in the > forum, create a background to deal with the subject in hand, > systematically. > Note: The document regarding " Lagna lord in various houses was there > in file section for many days, and mails about file uploading goes to > every member, the main thread of discussion is on the same; but alas! > the never read or refer to such files and instead depend on the > posted mails alone! No serious learner who approach astrology > shouldn't follow such a method. He should download and study them > before putting in his bit - and that SHOULD BE a well thought out > one - depicting his sincerity and earnest effort to understand and > learn the path shown by the sages " . Whether such a view matches with > mine or not is irrelevant. But the contribution should be valuable - > coming out from research, experience and effort. > Hope the confusion is clarified. > Love and Hugs, > Sreenadh > > , " litsol " > <mlalit@> wrote: > > > > Dear Srinadh, > > > > Pls. tell where i m wrong in finding such shortcomings in what u > > tried to derive and explain after the translation, in fact, i saw, > u > > urself tried to understand what is missing, struggled a lot, but > just > > stopped before touching the crux, a gap remained is to cover up. > > > > I suggested something for the betterment only. > > > > loss doesn't mean death, it may be girl child, it may be hopeless > > child, it may be a child with poor health, we need to be more > specific > > while deriving the results and explaining them to group. > > > > be admissive and keep a holistic approach so that a right learning > > approach could be developed having inputs from every one, > otherwise, > > there are chances for the entire hardwork to be confined to mere > > translation of some shlokas, which i think, is certainly not the > > objective. > > > > if u mind and dont consider what u r told, i have no business to > > interrupt you, u can move on ur ways. > > > > regards, > > Lalit. > > > > > > , " Sreenadh " > > <sreesog@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Lalit ji, > > > Did you ever been an astrologer? I think not. Just simply learn! > > > Love, > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > , " litsol " > > > <mlalit@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Srinadh, > > > > > > > > Perhapse u have not checked malific influence on 5'th house > with > > > > horoscopes,However, i appreciate ur efforts to understand the > > > > consequences of 5'th house as well as lagna lord's placement in > > > 5'th > > > > house. > > > > > > > > A malific influence in 5'th does not always lead to loss of the > > > first > > > > child, this placement sometimes give girl child, death of child > > is > > > an > > > > extreme result which happens in cases of extreme malificance. I > > > > remember once u said during discussion of BB that 4'th house > may > > > > denote loss of child, if 4'th there are other house as well as > > with > > > > reference to 5'th house. > > > > > > > > If u r doing a commentary on the ancient classics, ur approach > is > > > > right and there is lot to learn from such writings, but as far > as > > > > learning is concerned, more urge to study and dissect the > > obsecure > > > > cases is required. > > > > > > > > same way, 5'th has connection to 11'th house, the house of > gains, > > > > this combination of lagna lord's placement in 5'th house makes > a > > > > person too much ambitious, self cenetered, he is self promting > so > > > > should be aggressive coz his rise is his main objective of the > > life. > > > > > > > > This is what i observed. > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > Lalit. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " Sreenadh " > > > > <sreesog@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > > > > > > > The results for Lagna lord in 5th house is discussed below. > > > > > > > > > > ============================================== > > > > > Lagna lord in 5th House > > > > > ----------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be proud an > > individual > > > > with > > > > > much self-respect and reputation and a bit angry but > righteous > > > and > > > > kind. > > > > > He will have children. He may have moderate well-being from > > > > children and > > > > > may lose his first child as well, especially if there is some > > > > malefic > > > > > influence on 5th house. He would be dear to the people with > > power > > > > and > > > > > authority. He will have good authority or rulership and will > > > enjoy a > > > > > good eventful and enjoyable life. Bestowed with good > qualities, > > > he > > > > will > > > > > do many good deeds. > > > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be angry; will have > > > > moderate > > > > > well-being from children. The native will lose his first > child. > > > He > > > > would > > > > > be a proud individual with much self-respect and reputation. > He > > > > would be > > > > > dear to the king. > > > > > > > > > > - Parasara Hora > > > > > > > > > > Why should lagna lord going to 5th make the native an angry > and > > > > > aggressive individual? One of the logic behind could be - 5th > > is > > > 3rd > > > > > from 3rd house; and Upachaya (increase) stana of 3rd house. > 3rd > > > > house > > > > > signify anger and possibly that is why lagna lord in 5th > > > increases > > > > the > > > > > anger and agitation of the native. But also not that 5th is > 2nd > > > > house > > > > > from 4th (simple and humble mind) making the native a > straight > > > > forward > > > > > individual. It is also mentioned in the sloka that the native > > > will > > > > lose > > > > > his first child - why? The natural expectation would be that > > > lagna > > > > lord > > > > > in 5th should bestow good results for 5th, thus providing > > > children > > > > and > > > > > happiness from children to the native. Of course if lagna > lord > > is > > > > in 5th > > > > > is afflicted by some malefic, then it would have double > impact, > > > > since > > > > > the same would affect both the 5th house and the lagna lord > > > > amplifying > > > > > the possibility for bad result. Since 5th could signify the > > first > > > > child > > > > > the bad result could be attributed to the first child as > well. > > > > Actually > > > > > this is what we see mentioned in Meenaraja hora. But Parasara > > > > provides > > > > > no such clue about any required malefic influence in 5th > house! > > > We > > > > are > > > > > wonder stuck by this derivation, and we fail to imagine any > > solid > > > > reason > > > > > behind such a derivation in the absence of any malefic > > influence > > > on > > > > 5th > > > > > house. Another version of the same sloka is available, which > > also > > > > > provides similar results. > > > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be proud; will have > > > > moderate > > > > > well-being from children. He will lose his first child. He > > would > > > be > > > > > angry and will have special privileges in the king's place. > > > > > > > > > > - Parasara Hora > > > > > > > > > > Apart from minor differences this sloka gives almost same > > results > > > as > > > > > above. It seems that, the loss of first child should be > > predicted > > > > only > > > > > if there is a malefic influence in 5th house, since the other > > > > available > > > > > slokas give good results concerning children if lagna lord is > > in > > > 5th > > > > > house. [Note that similar to in this sloka Parasara will not > > > mention > > > > > `if the lagna lord is malefic and placed in x house' in many > > > > > other slokas as well. We will encounter this writing style > > > related > > > > issue > > > > > in many other instances as well] Let us see what Meenaraja > has > > to > > > > say. > > > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th house, the native will have children, > > > > righteous > > > > > and kind. He will have good authority or rulership and will > > enjoy > > > a > > > > good > > > > > eventful and enjoyable life. Bestowed with good qualities, he > > > will > > > > do > > > > > many good deeds. > > > > > > > > > > - Meenaraja Hora > > > > > > > > > > In one printed version of Meenaraja Hora the word Suseela is > > > quoted > > > > as > > > > > Sugeeta (Good in singing). Select the proper word based on > > actual > > > > > experience observed. > > > > > > > > > > Note that as per Meenaraja lagna lord in 5th `provides > children' > > > > > and does not `destroy children'. Even though Parasara only > says > > > > > that `lose of first child could happen', he too does not say > > > > > that `the native will not have children'. If we combine the > > > > > statements of both Parasara and Meenaraja the only conclusion > > we > > > > could > > > > > reach is `The native will have children, but he may loss his > > first > > > > > child as well'. But it should be noted that the loss of first > > > child > > > > > does not seems to be logically supported in the absence of > > malefic > > > > > influence on 5th house - this was my initial inference. (An > > > > amendment is > > > > > proposed later) The sloka provided by Hora Pradeepam is > almost > > > the > > > > same > > > > > as that of Meenaraja. > > > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th house, the native will have children, > > > > righteous > > > > > and kind. He will have good authority or rulership and will > > enjoy > > > a > > > > good > > > > > eventful and happy life. Bestowed with good qualities, he > will > > do > > > > many > > > > > good deeds. > > > > > > > > > > - Hora Pradeepam > > > > > > > > > > Parasara says that Lagna lord in 5th would make the native > > angry - > > > > > > > why? > > > > > Clearly any direct logic is not visible. Sun is the natural > > > > significator > > > > > of Lagna. If we are considering lagna lord in 5th as similar > to > > > sun > > > > in > > > > > 5th, then the above derivation would be justified and > possibly > > > the > > > > lose > > > > > of first child as well. But is it a correct approach? I am > > > doubtful. > > > > > Only verifying the actual results from charts with similar > > > > combination > > > > > can shed some light on this issue. > > > > > > > > > > Rule 5: Lagna lord in any house should be treated similar to > > Sun > > > in > > > > that > > > > > house, since Sun is the natural significator of Lagna. > > > > > > > > > > I am a bit doubtful about the validity of the above rule. If > not > > > > > supported by actual results it is better to ignore the above > > > rule. > > > > The > > > > > logic supplied till now does not seem to be capable enough to > > > > > satisfactorily explain the strong results proposed by > Parasara > > > such > > > > as - > > > > > Lagna lord in 5th causing the loss of first child; it will > also > > > > make the > > > > > native an angry individual. There should be some other logic > as > > > > well. > > > > > > > > > > On retrospect we feel that - Parasara will not say something > > > > without a > > > > > sold reason. Why should he bring planets base result (e.g. > > > > > benefic/malefic) into it, when he was dealing with House base > > > > > prediction? That is not logical. There could be some other in- > > > depth > > > > > reason. Yes, you are right - there is. Let us analyze all the > > > > possible > > > > > houses and lagna lord in their fifth house, and check whether > > the > > > > same > > > > > can cause the loss of child - > > > > > > > > > > 1) Aries lagna, lagna lord Mars in Leo: Yes, Leo is a sign > > > > signifying > > > > > less children, and Mars a malefic in it can indicate loss of > > > child > > > > for > > > > > sure. > > > > > > > > > > 2) Taurus lagna, lagna lord Venus in Virgo: Virgo is the > > > > debilitation > > > > > sign for Venus. Also not that Venus owns the lordship of 6th > > > house > > > > as > > > > > well. Thus for sure for Taurus lagna Venus in 5th can > indicate > > > loss > > > > of > > > > > child for sure. > > > > > > > > > > 3) Gemini lagna, lagna lord Me in Libra: Note that Venus the > > lord > > > of > > > > > Libra owns the 12th house (house indicating death) as well. > > > > Possibly the > > > > > combination can indicate loss or death. > > > > > > > > > > 4) Cancer lagna, Moon in Scorpio: Scorpio is the debilitation > > > sign > > > > for > > > > > Moon. Ofcourse the same can indicate the loss of child. > > > > > > > > > > 5) Leo lagna, Sun in Sagittarius: Note that the lord of > > > Sagittarius > > > > > Jupiter owns the 8th house (death) as well. Thus certainly the > > > > > combination can indicate the loss or death of child. > > > > > > > > > > 6) Virgo lagna, Me in Capricorn: The lord of Capricorn Saturn > > > owns > > > > the > > > > > 6th house as well. Possibly the combination can indicate bad > > > results > > > > > such as loss of child - amended by the fact that both Mercury > > and > > > > Saturn > > > > > are imbecile planets. > > > > > > > > > > 7) Libra lagna, Venus in Aquarius: Note that lagna lord Venus > > is > > > > also > > > > > the 8th lord. Certainly 8th lord is a malefic, and a malefic > > > placed > > > > in > > > > > 5th can indicate lose of child. > > > > > > > > > > If you continue this analysis, you could see that for most of > > the > > > 12 > > > > > signs, lagna lord placed in 5th can indicate the loss of > child, > > > even > > > > > though the same does not match perfectly for Aquarius and > > Pisces > > > > Lagna. > > > > > Thus it becomes clear that Parasara was not making a > statement > > > > without > > > > > base or without understanding. His derivation sprung from the > > deep > > > > > understanding that `for all the 12 signs, lagna lord in 5th > is > > not > > > > > favorably placed, and this can be crystallized into the brief > > > > statement > > > > > - lagna lord in 5th can indicate bad results such as - loss > of > > > first > > > > > child and anger'. Then is it that Meenaraja was wrong and > > Parasara > > > > > was right? No, it is not so. Meenaraja was deriving a result > > > based > > > > on > > > > > the prime condition – Lagna lord in 5th alone. For this prime > > > > > combination Meenaraja's derivation is absolutely right. But > > > > > Parasara's amendment springs from his deep understanding of > the > > > > > zodiac. He knew that the general statement regarding lagna > lord > > > in > > > > other > > > > > houses may not be completely true for lagna lord in 5th, due > to > > > > > essential mutually co-related nature of the signs itself. So > > his > > > > opinion > > > > > would be, `Yes, Meenaraja is right. But you know the Signs in > > > > > Zodiac, they have some specific connection to death as far as > > 5th > > > > house > > > > > is concerned. So your general derivation as proposed by > > Meenaraja > > > > will > > > > > not work in this case. Consider this special nature of 5th > from > > > all > > > > the > > > > > signs and modify your derivation accordingly. The you will > see > > > that, > > > > > lagna lord in 5th can signify many bad results such as loss > of > > > first > > > > > child and anger'. It must be this deeper understanding which > > > > > prompted Parasara to suggest such a result. Yes, Meenaraja is > > > > right, but > > > > > Parasara is also not off the mark. Meenaraja is concerned > with > > the > > > > > general logic of the derivation only, but Parasara goes > deeper > > in > > > > the > > > > > general zodiacal context. Note it - possibly in other > > situations > > > as > > > > well > > > > > the same could be the case - Parasara has a better > > understanding > > > > about > > > > > the zodiacal context, and may mix it with general result > > > > derivation. His > > > > > thought and understanding penetrates into deaths; and is more > > far > > > > and > > > > > wide. He is not depended on mere logic alone - he is more > > > > practical. It > > > > > is because of this in-depth understanding; Parasara is termed > a > > > > sage, > > > > > but Meenaraja a king, a scholar. > > > > > > > > > > But even this understanding of Parasara view does not does > not > > > > allow me > > > > > to pardon him - because here to derive the result he mixed > the > > > > methods > > > > > of Sign-House Base result derivation, while dealing with > House > > > Base > > > > > result derivation - causing confusion to the learner. I would > > > > suggest > > > > > that, in this context, the beginners should stick to the > > cleaner > > > and > > > > > systematic approach proposed by Meenaraja, while trying to > > master > > > > House > > > > > Base result derivation technique. The deeper possibilities and > > > > > modification to the suggested results should dealt with and > > > > understood, > > > > > while trying to learn Sign-House Base result derivation > > technique. > > > > > The 5th house signifies things such as - children, > intelligence, > > > > > creativity, genius, stomach, belly, ministers, secret hymns > > > recited > > > > etc. > > > > > Thus the placement of lagna lord in 5th generates special > > > > importance to > > > > > the derivations related to the same. > > > > > > > > > > Extract from: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh/ > > > > La\ > > > > > gna%20lord%20in%20Various%20Houses.pdf > > > > > ============================================== > > > > > Love, > > > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2007 Report Share Posted September 27, 2007 Dear Lalit ji, Are you noticing that we are deviating from the subject? Present your views on Lagna lord in 5th in a well written way (In similar discussions - Baquya ji does it - he is good; Srinivas ji does it; Sunil Does it; RK ji does it; similarly many more members) and I will love to see the same - whether it be from experience or from Logic. Second, I am NOT teaching anybody - but learning and presenting systematically - of course my experience as an astrologer, and of the books would be useful in that effort. But never expect or feel that I am teaching - I am NOT. Everybody learns by themselves. Everybody should try to present there sincere " understanding " " about the subject under discussion " with clarity. There is NO Teacher-Learner, Master-Disciple here; But only learners - all members present in this group are humble learners of the astrological wisdom presented by sages. I am a learner a student of them, and NOT a teacher to anyone. Please understand this. Love, Sreenadh , " litsol " <mlalit wrote: > > Dear Srinadh, > > Do u mean, If u r not clear somewhere or u r missing something and > someone points out to the mising point, he himself lacks the > understanding, very good approach, sorry to interrupt this time, now > onwards will never try to correct you. > > However,u urself asked the question in ur post - " Why should lagna > lord going to 5th make the native an angry and aggressive > individual " and tried to understand the reason, if ur post is only > house specific why u raise such questions and then try to find > answers, simply i thuoght to correct ur effort with my understanding > but ur attitude is very different,So much inclination in teaching is > affecting ur's learning only. > > > regards, > Lalit , " Sreenadh " > <sreesog@> wrote: > > > > Dear Lalit ji, > > Malefic effect in 5th causing many troubles is a known fact to all > > astrologers - no explanation is needed on the same. Knowing what > > those troubles are, needs considering a lot of other parameters. > > Deriving the details - which uses several methodologies such as > > Bhavat Bhava Chinta, Karkat Bhava chinta, considering other > > combinations - know that there is a big distance to go and it is > not > > that simple. > > What we are doing here is not trying to reach some inflexible > > conclusion; or to analyze someone's horoscope; but to see to what > > extend the slokas on 'House Base' derivation technique can point > to. > > Try to understand things in the context they are. > > When you are trying your own bit of logic in something - present > it > > that way; Instead of saying this is right or that is wrong, or > > somewhere else is the crux. Present - as per your logic you think > it > > could be so and so. (Don't bring in I have seen such and such in > some > > horoscope and so let us discuss that horoscope strategy as well - > > that is not the way. If the same combination is present in some > known > > horoscope - the combination alone can be considered for > verification, > > and other feature or details of that horoscope should be neglected. > > We should stick to the context and the method of study). Loss can > > mean many things - > > * It could be abortion > > * It could untimely death of son at a later age (as in the case of > > Indira Gandhi) > > * It could be a missing son Or there could be many other > > possibilities as well. > > Neither the sloka nor we are going in to that details - instead > what > > we are doing is 'Trying to learn the logical background and > concepts > > used in House Base derivation by the sages; and thus trying to > master > > that technique' - know this well. > > ==> > > > there are chances for the entire hard work to be confined to mere > > > translation of some shlokas, which i think, is certainly not the > > > objective. > > <== > > Clearly the above words come from lack of understanding of > objective > > and strategy, of this group. Please check - > > * The previous mails on the same thread > > * The files in the files folder dealing with similar things (i.e. > > Articles related to 7-fold result derivation technique of astrology) > > * Thus instead of starting afresh were you land yourself in the > > forum, create a background to deal with the subject in hand, > > systematically. > > Note: The document regarding " Lagna lord in various houses was > there > > in file section for many days, and mails about file uploading goes > to > > every member, the main thread of discussion is on the same; but > alas! > > the never read or refer to such files and instead depend on the > > posted mails alone! No serious learner who approach astrology > > shouldn't follow such a method. He should download and study them > > before putting in his bit - and that SHOULD BE a well thought out > > one - depicting his sincerity and earnest effort to understand and > > learn the path shown by the sages " . Whether such a view matches > with > > mine or not is irrelevant. But the contribution should be valuable - > > > coming out from research, experience and effort. > > Hope the confusion is clarified. > > Love and Hugs, > > Sreenadh > > > > , " litsol " > > <mlalit@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Srinadh, > > > > > > Pls. tell where i m wrong in finding such shortcomings in what u > > > tried to derive and explain after the translation, in fact, i > saw, > > u > > > urself tried to understand what is missing, struggled a lot, but > > just > > > stopped before touching the crux, a gap remained is to cover up. > > > > > > I suggested something for the betterment only. > > > > > > loss doesn't mean death, it may be girl child, it may be hopeless > > > child, it may be a child with poor health, we need to be more > > specific > > > while deriving the results and explaining them to group. > > > > > > be admissive and keep a holistic approach so that a right > learning > > > approach could be developed having inputs from every one, > > otherwise, > > > there are chances for the entire hardwork to be confined to mere > > > translation of some shlokas, which i think, is certainly not the > > > objective. > > > > > > if u mind and dont consider what u r told, i have no business to > > > interrupt you, u can move on ur ways. > > > > > > regards, > > > Lalit. > > > > > > > > > , " Sreenadh " > > > <sreesog@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Lalit ji, > > > > Did you ever been an astrologer? I think not. Just simply > learn! > > > > Love, > > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > > > , " litsol " > > > > <mlalit@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Srinadh, > > > > > > > > > > Perhapse u have not checked malific influence on 5'th house > > with > > > > > horoscopes,However, i appreciate ur efforts to understand the > > > > > consequences of 5'th house as well as lagna lord's placement > in > > > > 5'th > > > > > house. > > > > > > > > > > A malific influence in 5'th does not always lead to loss of > the > > > > first > > > > > child, this placement sometimes give girl child, death of > child > > > is > > > > an > > > > > extreme result which happens in cases of extreme malificance. > I > > > > > remember once u said during discussion of BB that 4'th house > > may > > > > > denote loss of child, if 4'th there are other house as well > as > > > with > > > > > reference to 5'th house. > > > > > > > > > > If u r doing a commentary on the ancient classics, ur > approach > > is > > > > > right and there is lot to learn from such writings, but as > far > > as > > > > > learning is concerned, more urge to study and dissect the > > > obsecure > > > > > cases is required. > > > > > > > > > > same way, 5'th has connection to 11'th house, the house of > > gains, > > > > > this combination of lagna lord's placement in 5'th house > makes > > a > > > > > person too much ambitious, self cenetered, he is self > promting > > so > > > > > should be aggressive coz his rise is his main objective of > the > > > life. > > > > > > > > > > This is what i observed. > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > Lalit. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " Sreenadh " > > > > > <sreesog@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > > > > > > > > > The results for Lagna lord in 5th house is discussed > below. > > > > > > > > > > > > ============================================== > > > > > > Lagna lord in 5th House > > > > > > ----------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be proud an > > > individual > > > > > with > > > > > > much self-respect and reputation and a bit angry but > > righteous > > > > and > > > > > kind. > > > > > > He will have children. He may have moderate well-being from > > > > > children and > > > > > > may lose his first child as well, especially if there is > some > > > > > malefic > > > > > > influence on 5th house. He would be dear to the people with > > > power > > > > > and > > > > > > authority. He will have good authority or rulership and > will > > > > enjoy a > > > > > > good eventful and enjoyable life. Bestowed with good > > qualities, > > > > he > > > > > will > > > > > > do many good deeds. > > > > > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be angry; will > have > > > > > moderate > > > > > > well-being from children. The native will lose his first > > child. > > > > He > > > > > would > > > > > > be a proud individual with much self-respect and > reputation. > > He > > > > > would be > > > > > > dear to the king. > > > > > > > > > > > > - Parasara Hora > > > > > > > > > > > > Why should lagna lord going to 5th make the native an angry > > and > > > > > > aggressive individual? One of the logic behind could be - > 5th > > > is > > > > 3rd > > > > > > from 3rd house; and Upachaya (increase) stana of 3rd house. > > 3rd > > > > > house > > > > > > signify anger and possibly that is why lagna lord in 5th > > > > increases > > > > > the > > > > > > anger and agitation of the native. But also not that 5th is > > 2nd > > > > > house > > > > > > from 4th (simple and humble mind) making the native a > > straight > > > > > forward > > > > > > individual. It is also mentioned in the sloka that the > native > > > > will > > > > > lose > > > > > > his first child - why? The natural expectation would be > that > > > > lagna > > > > > lord > > > > > > in 5th should bestow good results for 5th, thus providing > > > > children > > > > > and > > > > > > happiness from children to the native. Of course if lagna > > lord > > > is > > > > > in 5th > > > > > > is afflicted by some malefic, then it would have double > > impact, > > > > > since > > > > > > the same would affect both the 5th house and the lagna lord > > > > > amplifying > > > > > > the possibility for bad result. Since 5th could signify the > > > first > > > > > child > > > > > > the bad result could be attributed to the first child as > > well. > > > > > Actually > > > > > > this is what we see mentioned in Meenaraja hora. But > Parasara > > > > > provides > > > > > > no such clue about any required malefic influence in 5th > > house! > > > > We > > > > > are > > > > > > wonder stuck by this derivation, and we fail to imagine any > > > solid > > > > > reason > > > > > > behind such a derivation in the absence of any malefic > > > influence > > > > on > > > > > 5th > > > > > > house. Another version of the same sloka is available, > which > > > also > > > > > > provides similar results. > > > > > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be proud; will > have > > > > > moderate > > > > > > well-being from children. He will lose his first child. He > > > would > > > > be > > > > > > angry and will have special privileges in the king's place. > > > > > > > > > > > > - Parasara Hora > > > > > > > > > > > > Apart from minor differences this sloka gives almost same > > > results > > > > as > > > > > > above. It seems that, the loss of first child should be > > > predicted > > > > > only > > > > > > if there is a malefic influence in 5th house, since the > other > > > > > available > > > > > > slokas give good results concerning children if lagna lord > is > > > in > > > > 5th > > > > > > house. [Note that similar to in this sloka Parasara will > not > > > > mention > > > > > > `if the lagna lord is malefic and placed in x house' in many > > > > > > other slokas as well. We will encounter this writing style > > > > related > > > > > issue > > > > > > in many other instances as well] Let us see what Meenaraja > > has > > > to > > > > > say. > > > > > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th house, the native will have > children, > > > > > righteous > > > > > > and kind. He will have good authority or rulership and will > > > enjoy > > > > a > > > > > good > > > > > > eventful and enjoyable life. Bestowed with good qualities, > he > > > > will > > > > > do > > > > > > many good deeds. > > > > > > > > > > > > - Meenaraja Hora > > > > > > > > > > > > In one printed version of Meenaraja Hora the word Suseela > is > > > > quoted > > > > > as > > > > > > Sugeeta (Good in singing). Select the proper word based on > > > actual > > > > > > experience observed. > > > > > > > > > > > > Note that as per Meenaraja lagna lord in 5th `provides > > children' > > > > > > and does not `destroy children'. Even though Parasara only > > says > > > > > > that `lose of first child could happen', he too does not > say > > > > > > that `the native will not have children'. If we combine the > > > > > > statements of both Parasara and Meenaraja the only > conclusion > > > we > > > > > could > > > > > > reach is `The native will have children, but he may loss > his > > > first > > > > > > child as well'. But it should be noted that the loss of > first > > > > child > > > > > > does not seems to be logically supported in the absence of > > > malefic > > > > > > influence on 5th house - this was my initial inference. (An > > > > > amendment is > > > > > > proposed later) The sloka provided by Hora Pradeepam is > > almost > > > > the > > > > > same > > > > > > as that of Meenaraja. > > > > > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th house, the native will have > children, > > > > > righteous > > > > > > and kind. He will have good authority or rulership and will > > > enjoy > > > > a > > > > > good > > > > > > eventful and happy life. Bestowed with good qualities, he > > will > > > do > > > > > many > > > > > > good deeds. > > > > > > > > > > > > - Hora Pradeepam > > > > > > > > > > > > Parasara says that Lagna lord in 5th would make the native > > > angry - > > > > > > > > > why? > > > > > > Clearly any direct logic is not visible. Sun is the natural > > > > > significator > > > > > > of Lagna. If we are considering lagna lord in 5th as > similar > > to > > > > sun > > > > > in > > > > > > 5th, then the above derivation would be justified and > > possibly > > > > the > > > > > lose > > > > > > of first child as well. But is it a correct approach? I am > > > > doubtful. > > > > > > Only verifying the actual results from charts with similar > > > > > combination > > > > > > can shed some light on this issue. > > > > > > > > > > > > Rule 5: Lagna lord in any house should be treated similar > to > > > Sun > > > > in > > > > > that > > > > > > house, since Sun is the natural significator of Lagna. > > > > > > > > > > > > I am a bit doubtful about the validity of the above rule. > If > > not > > > > > > supported by actual results it is better to ignore the > above > > > > rule. > > > > > The > > > > > > logic supplied till now does not seem to be capable enough > to > > > > > > satisfactorily explain the strong results proposed by > > Parasara > > > > such > > > > > as - > > > > > > Lagna lord in 5th causing the loss of first child; it will > > also > > > > > make the > > > > > > native an angry individual. There should be some other > logic > > as > > > > > well. > > > > > > > > > > > > On retrospect we feel that - Parasara will not say > something > > > > > without a > > > > > > sold reason. Why should he bring planets base result (e.g. > > > > > > benefic/malefic) into it, when he was dealing with House > base > > > > > > prediction? That is not logical. There could be some other > in- > > > > depth > > > > > > reason. Yes, you are right - there is. Let us analyze all > the > > > > > possible > > > > > > houses and lagna lord in their fifth house, and check > whether > > > the > > > > > same > > > > > > can cause the loss of child - > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) Aries lagna, lagna lord Mars in Leo: Yes, Leo is a sign > > > > > signifying > > > > > > less children, and Mars a malefic in it can indicate loss > of > > > > child > > > > > for > > > > > > sure. > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Taurus lagna, lagna lord Venus in Virgo: Virgo is the > > > > > debilitation > > > > > > sign for Venus. Also not that Venus owns the lordship of > 6th > > > > house > > > > > as > > > > > > well. Thus for sure for Taurus lagna Venus in 5th can > > indicate > > > > loss > > > > > of > > > > > > child for sure. > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) Gemini lagna, lagna lord Me in Libra: Note that Venus > the > > > lord > > > > of > > > > > > Libra owns the 12th house (house indicating death) as well. > > > > > Possibly the > > > > > > combination can indicate loss or death. > > > > > > > > > > > > 4) Cancer lagna, Moon in Scorpio: Scorpio is the > debilitation > > > > sign > > > > > for > > > > > > Moon. Ofcourse the same can indicate the loss of child. > > > > > > > > > > > > 5) Leo lagna, Sun in Sagittarius: Note that the lord of > > > > Sagittarius > > > > > > Jupiter owns the 8th house (death) as well. Thus certainly > the > > > > > > combination can indicate the loss or death of child. > > > > > > > > > > > > 6) Virgo lagna, Me in Capricorn: The lord of Capricorn > Saturn > > > > owns > > > > > the > > > > > > 6th house as well. Possibly the combination can indicate > bad > > > > results > > > > > > such as loss of child - amended by the fact that both > Mercury > > > and > > > > > Saturn > > > > > > are imbecile planets. > > > > > > > > > > > > 7) Libra lagna, Venus in Aquarius: Note that lagna lord > Venus > > > is > > > > > also > > > > > > the 8th lord. Certainly 8th lord is a malefic, and a > malefic > > > > placed > > > > > in > > > > > > 5th can indicate lose of child. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you continue this analysis, you could see that for most > of > > > the > > > > 12 > > > > > > signs, lagna lord placed in 5th can indicate the loss of > > child, > > > > even > > > > > > though the same does not match perfectly for Aquarius and > > > Pisces > > > > > Lagna. > > > > > > Thus it becomes clear that Parasara was not making a > > statement > > > > > without > > > > > > base or without understanding. His derivation sprung from > the > > > deep > > > > > > understanding that `for all the 12 signs, lagna lord in 5th > > is > > > not > > > > > > favorably placed, and this can be crystallized into the > brief > > > > > statement > > > > > > - lagna lord in 5th can indicate bad results such as - loss > > of > > > > first > > > > > > child and anger'. Then is it that Meenaraja was wrong and > > > Parasara > > > > > > was right? No, it is not so. Meenaraja was deriving a > result > > > > based > > > > > on > > > > > > the prime condition – Lagna lord in 5th alone. For this > prime > > > > > > combination Meenaraja's derivation is absolutely right. But > > > > > > Parasara's amendment springs from his deep understanding of > > the > > > > > > zodiac. He knew that the general statement regarding lagna > > lord > > > > in > > > > > other > > > > > > houses may not be completely true for lagna lord in 5th, > due > > to > > > > > > essential mutually co-related nature of the signs itself. > So > > > his > > > > > opinion > > > > > > would be, `Yes, Meenaraja is right. But you know the Signs > in > > > > > > Zodiac, they have some specific connection to death as far > as > > > 5th > > > > > house > > > > > > is concerned. So your general derivation as proposed by > > > Meenaraja > > > > > will > > > > > > not work in this case. Consider this special nature of 5th > > from > > > > all > > > > > the > > > > > > signs and modify your derivation accordingly. The you will > > see > > > > that, > > > > > > lagna lord in 5th can signify many bad results such as loss > > of > > > > first > > > > > > child and anger'. It must be this deeper understanding which > > > > > > prompted Parasara to suggest such a result. Yes, Meenaraja > is > > > > > right, but > > > > > > Parasara is also not off the mark. Meenaraja is concerned > > with > > > the > > > > > > general logic of the derivation only, but Parasara goes > > deeper > > > in > > > > > the > > > > > > general zodiacal context. Note it - possibly in other > > > situations > > > > as > > > > > well > > > > > > the same could be the case - Parasara has a better > > > understanding > > > > > about > > > > > > the zodiacal context, and may mix it with general result > > > > > derivation. His > > > > > > thought and understanding penetrates into deaths; and is > more > > > far > > > > > and > > > > > > wide. He is not depended on mere logic alone - he is more > > > > > practical. It > > > > > > is because of this in-depth understanding; Parasara is > termed > > a > > > > > sage, > > > > > > but Meenaraja a king, a scholar. > > > > > > > > > > > > But even this understanding of Parasara view does not does > > not > > > > > allow me > > > > > > to pardon him - because here to derive the result he mixed > > the > > > > > methods > > > > > > of Sign-House Base result derivation, while dealing with > > House > > > > Base > > > > > > result derivation - causing confusion to the learner. I > would > > > > > suggest > > > > > > that, in this context, the beginners should stick to the > > > cleaner > > > > and > > > > > > systematic approach proposed by Meenaraja, while trying to > > > master > > > > > House > > > > > > Base result derivation technique. The deeper possibilities > and > > > > > > modification to the suggested results should dealt with and > > > > > understood, > > > > > > while trying to learn Sign-House Base result derivation > > > technique. > > > > > > The 5th house signifies things such as - children, > > intelligence, > > > > > > creativity, genius, stomach, belly, ministers, secret hymns > > > > recited > > > > > etc. > > > > > > Thus the placement of lagna lord in 5th generates special > > > > > importance to > > > > > > the derivations related to the same. > > > > > > > > > > > > Extract from: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh/ > > > > > La\ > > > > > > gna%20lord%20in%20Various%20Houses.pdf > > > > > > ============================================== > > > > > > Love, > > > > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2007 Report Share Posted September 27, 2007 Dear Lalit ji, The questions in articles are - * Guidance to think. * They are part of the process of thinking * They are not demanding, requesting and asking someone to come and give a ready made answer, such as " Perhaps u have not checked malefic influence on 5'th house with horoscopes... and I will teach you the remedy, the correct results and the method to be followed " ; know that it is to motivate thinking; it is to motivate more fuel to the fire with in; to guide others and me to learn to think itself - systematically; in the way astrology demands! Note that 7-fold method is a " Thought Tool " , a methodology for thinking. With a peaceful mind think about it - and you will see what I mean. What the questions you present in your own writeups/articles - you will what I mean. ==> > if ur post is only house specific why u raise such questions and > then try to find answers, <== I hope the above section clarifies this. The post was 'house specific' that too is right. ==> > u urself asked the question in ur post - " Why should lagna > lord going to 5th make the native an angry and aggressive > individual " and tried to understand the reason <== Yes, I did raise that question and tried to answer it - because that was a result derived by Parasara and I was thinking about the logic behind it; Certainly that is related to 'House Base' derivation, and not related to anything else. Did you tried to think and find an answer to that question? Did you checked the same in some example horoscopes and found that it doesn't work? Now let us come to your comment on the same - Comment -1 ==> > If u r doing a commentary on the ancient classics, ur approach is > right and there is lot to learn from such writings, but as > far as learning is concerned, more urge to study and dissect the > obsecure cases is required. <== What do you mean by 'obscure cases'? Do you mean example horoscopes? The do it yourself - and present the results! That is the way to go - an a research approach, and we too would be benefited by that; go ahead and do it! Note that the above statement by you lacks even the basic understanding that " the article was dealing with House Base result derivation, and that too about LL in 5th " ! Comment -2 ==> > same way, 5'th has connection to 11'th house, the house of gains, > this combination of lagna lord's placement in 5'th house > makes a person too much ambitious, self cenetered, he is self > promting so should be aggressive coz his rise is his main objective > of the life. This is what i observed. <== Yah, that is good logic - and a good suggestion. But note the last statement " This is what i observed " ! We all know that you started learning astrology before 5 months only. Of course you are a smart learner, and has good logic, (I appreciate that, and happy about it). Considering the above facts, possibly if it was something like - " This is a better logical derivation I feel " , it would have been more pleasant. Even if you have " observed " such combinations - your time span of 5 months is not even enough to complete the training period and clear the testing phase! :=) Lalit ji, don't take all these comments personally - I love you very much, and know well that it is rare to find such a good potential. But don't do the mistake becoming a teacher; don't do the mistake of becoming a teacher - your experience and knowledge is not enough for that; I have at least 8 years experience as a professional astrologer, but still I am a learner and yet to become a teacher; I don't think in near future it would be possible as well; thus the fact is there are no teachers in this group; and never can be. We are all fellow students here - even though the amount of knowledge may vary a bit from individual to individual; that is not much important. But learning to be a learner, and being a learner, and accepting that i am a learner and that my knowledge is limited - IS important. We simply don't have answers to everything - and never can be. Be with me brother and give a bit credit for being elder... Love and Hugs, Sreenadh , " Sreenadh " <sreesog wrote: > > Dear Lalit ji, > Are you noticing that we are deviating from the subject? Present > your views on Lagna lord in 5th in a well written way (In similar > discussions - Baquya ji does it - he is good; Srinivas ji does it; > Sunil Does it; RK ji does it; similarly many more members) and I will > love to see the same - whether it be from experience or from Logic. > Second, I am NOT teaching anybody - but learning and presenting > systematically - of course my experience as an astrologer, and of the > books would be useful in that effort. But never expect or feel that I > am teaching - I am NOT. Everybody learns by themselves. Everybody > should try to present there sincere " understanding " " about the > subject under discussion " with clarity. There is NO Teacher- Learner, > Master-Disciple here; But only learners - all members present in this > group are humble learners of the astrological wisdom presented by > sages. I am a learner a student of them, and NOT a teacher to anyone. > Please understand this. > Love, > Sreenadh > > , " litsol " > <mlalit@> wrote: > > > > Dear Srinadh, > > > > Do u mean, If u r not clear somewhere or u r missing something and > > someone points out to the mising point, he himself lacks the > > understanding, very good approach, sorry to interrupt this time, > now > > onwards will never try to correct you. > > > > However,u urself asked the question in ur post - " Why should lagna > > lord going to 5th make the native an angry and aggressive > > individual " and tried to understand the reason, if ur post is only > > house specific why u raise such questions and then try to find > > answers, simply i thuoght to correct ur effort with my > understanding > > but ur attitude is very different,So much inclination in teaching > is > > affecting ur's learning only. > > > > > > regards, > > Lalit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " Sreenadh " > > <sreesog@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Lalit ji, > > > Malefic effect in 5th causing many troubles is a known fact to > all > > > astrologers - no explanation is needed on the same. Knowing what > > > those troubles are, needs considering a lot of other parameters. > > > Deriving the details - which uses several methodologies such as > > > Bhavat Bhava Chinta, Karkat Bhava chinta, considering other > > > combinations - know that there is a big distance to go and it is > > not > > > that simple. > > > What we are doing here is not trying to reach some inflexible > > > conclusion; or to analyze someone's horoscope; but to see to what > > > extend the slokas on 'House Base' derivation technique can point > > to. > > > Try to understand things in the context they are. > > > When you are trying your own bit of logic in something - present > > it > > > that way; Instead of saying this is right or that is wrong, or > > > somewhere else is the crux. Present - as per your logic you think > > it > > > could be so and so. (Don't bring in I have seen such and such in > > some > > > horoscope and so let us discuss that horoscope strategy as well - > > > that is not the way. If the same combination is present in some > > known > > > horoscope - the combination alone can be considered for > > verification, > > > and other feature or details of that horoscope should be > neglected. > > > We should stick to the context and the method of study). Loss can > > > mean many things - > > > * It could be abortion > > > * It could untimely death of son at a later age (as in the case > of > > > Indira Gandhi) > > > * It could be a missing son Or there could be many other > > > possibilities as well. > > > Neither the sloka nor we are going in to that details - instead > > what > > > we are doing is 'Trying to learn the logical background and > > concepts > > > used in House Base derivation by the sages; and thus trying to > > master > > > that technique' - know this well. > > > ==> > > > > there are chances for the entire hard work to be confined to > mere > > > > translation of some shlokas, which i think, is certainly not > the > > > > objective. > > > <== > > > Clearly the above words come from lack of understanding of > > objective > > > and strategy, of this group. Please check - > > > * The previous mails on the same thread > > > * The files in the files folder dealing with similar things > (i.e. > > > Articles related to 7-fold result derivation technique of > astrology) > > > * Thus instead of starting afresh were you land yourself in the > > > forum, create a background to deal with the subject in hand, > > > systematically. > > > Note: The document regarding " Lagna lord in various houses was > > there > > > in file section for many days, and mails about file uploading > goes > > to > > > every member, the main thread of discussion is on the same; but > > alas! > > > the never read or refer to such files and instead depend on the > > > posted mails alone! No serious learner who approach astrology > > > shouldn't follow such a method. He should download and study them > > > before putting in his bit - and that SHOULD BE a well thought out > > > one - depicting his sincerity and earnest effort to understand > and > > > learn the path shown by the sages " . Whether such a view matches > > with > > > mine or not is irrelevant. But the contribution should be > valuable - > > > > > coming out from research, experience and effort. > > > Hope the confusion is clarified. > > > Love and Hugs, > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > , " litsol " > > > <mlalit@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Srinadh, > > > > > > > > Pls. tell where i m wrong in finding such shortcomings in what > u > > > > tried to derive and explain after the translation, in fact, i > > saw, > > > u > > > > urself tried to understand what is missing, struggled a lot, > but > > > just > > > > stopped before touching the crux, a gap remained is to cover > up. > > > > > > > > I suggested something for the betterment only. > > > > > > > > loss doesn't mean death, it may be girl child, it may be > hopeless > > > > child, it may be a child with poor health, we need to be more > > > specific > > > > while deriving the results and explaining them to group. > > > > > > > > be admissive and keep a holistic approach so that a right > > learning > > > > approach could be developed having inputs from every one, > > > otherwise, > > > > there are chances for the entire hardwork to be confined to > mere > > > > translation of some shlokas, which i think, is certainly not > the > > > > objective. > > > > > > > > if u mind and dont consider what u r told, i have no business > to > > > > interrupt you, u can move on ur ways. > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > Lalit. > > > > > > > > > > > > , " Sreenadh " > > > > <sreesog@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lalit ji, > > > > > Did you ever been an astrologer? I think not. Just simply > > learn! > > > > > Love, > > > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > > > > > , " litsol " > > > > > <mlalit@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Srinadh, > > > > > > > > > > > > Perhapse u have not checked malific influence on 5'th house > > > with > > > > > > horoscopes,However, i appreciate ur efforts to understand > the > > > > > > consequences of 5'th house as well as lagna lord's > placement > > in > > > > > 5'th > > > > > > house. > > > > > > > > > > > > A malific influence in 5'th does not always lead to loss of > > the > > > > > first > > > > > > child, this placement sometimes give girl child, death of > > child > > > > is > > > > > an > > > > > > extreme result which happens in cases of extreme > malificance. > > I > > > > > > remember once u said during discussion of BB that 4'th > house > > > may > > > > > > denote loss of child, if 4'th there are other house as well > > as > > > > with > > > > > > reference to 5'th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > If u r doing a commentary on the ancient classics, ur > > approach > > > is > > > > > > right and there is lot to learn from such writings, but as > > far > > > as > > > > > > learning is concerned, more urge to study and dissect the > > > > obsecure > > > > > > cases is required. > > > > > > > > > > > > same way, 5'th has connection to 11'th house, the house of > > > gains, > > > > > > this combination of lagna lord's placement in 5'th house > > makes > > > a > > > > > > person too much ambitious, self cenetered, he is self > > promting > > > so > > > > > > should be aggressive coz his rise is his main objective of > > the > > > > life. > > > > > > > > > > > > This is what i observed. > > > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > Lalit. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In , " Sreenadh " > > > > > > <sreesog@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The results for Lagna lord in 5th house is discussed > > below. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ============================================== > > > > > > > Lagna lord in 5th House > > > > > > > ----------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be proud an > > > > individual > > > > > > with > > > > > > > much self-respect and reputation and a bit angry but > > > righteous > > > > > and > > > > > > kind. > > > > > > > He will have children. He may have moderate well-being > from > > > > > > children and > > > > > > > may lose his first child as well, especially if there is > > some > > > > > > malefic > > > > > > > influence on 5th house. He would be dear to the people > with > > > > power > > > > > > and > > > > > > > authority. He will have good authority or rulership and > > will > > > > > enjoy a > > > > > > > good eventful and enjoyable life. Bestowed with good > > > qualities, > > > > > he > > > > > > will > > > > > > > do many good deeds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be angry; will > > have > > > > > > moderate > > > > > > > well-being from children. The native will lose his first > > > child. > > > > > He > > > > > > would > > > > > > > be a proud individual with much self-respect and > > reputation. > > > He > > > > > > would be > > > > > > > dear to the king. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Parasara Hora > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why should lagna lord going to 5th make the native an > angry > > > and > > > > > > > aggressive individual? One of the logic behind could be - > > 5th > > > > is > > > > > 3rd > > > > > > > from 3rd house; and Upachaya (increase) stana of 3rd > house. > > > 3rd > > > > > > house > > > > > > > signify anger and possibly that is why lagna lord in 5th > > > > > increases > > > > > > the > > > > > > > anger and agitation of the native. But also not that 5th > is > > > 2nd > > > > > > house > > > > > > > from 4th (simple and humble mind) making the native a > > > straight > > > > > > forward > > > > > > > individual. It is also mentioned in the sloka that the > > native > > > > > will > > > > > > lose > > > > > > > his first child - why? The natural expectation would be > > that > > > > > lagna > > > > > > lord > > > > > > > in 5th should bestow good results for 5th, thus providing > > > > > children > > > > > > and > > > > > > > happiness from children to the native. Of course if lagna > > > lord > > > > is > > > > > > in 5th > > > > > > > is afflicted by some malefic, then it would have double > > > impact, > > > > > > since > > > > > > > the same would affect both the 5th house and the lagna > lord > > > > > > amplifying > > > > > > > the possibility for bad result. Since 5th could signify > the > > > > first > > > > > > child > > > > > > > the bad result could be attributed to the first child as > > > well. > > > > > > Actually > > > > > > > this is what we see mentioned in Meenaraja hora. But > > Parasara > > > > > > provides > > > > > > > no such clue about any required malefic influence in 5th > > > house! > > > > > We > > > > > > are > > > > > > > wonder stuck by this derivation, and we fail to imagine > any > > > > solid > > > > > > reason > > > > > > > behind such a derivation in the absence of any malefic > > > > influence > > > > > on > > > > > > 5th > > > > > > > house. Another version of the same sloka is available, > > which > > > > also > > > > > > > provides similar results. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be proud; will > > have > > > > > > moderate > > > > > > > well-being from children. He will lose his first child. > He > > > > would > > > > > be > > > > > > > angry and will have special privileges in the king's > place. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Parasara Hora > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Apart from minor differences this sloka gives almost same > > > > results > > > > > as > > > > > > > above. It seems that, the loss of first child should be > > > > predicted > > > > > > only > > > > > > > if there is a malefic influence in 5th house, since the > > other > > > > > > available > > > > > > > slokas give good results concerning children if lagna > lord > > is > > > > in > > > > > 5th > > > > > > > house. [Note that similar to in this sloka Parasara will > > not > > > > > mention > > > > > > > `if the lagna lord is malefic and placed in x house' in > many > > > > > > > other slokas as well. We will encounter this writing > style > > > > > related > > > > > > issue > > > > > > > in many other instances as well] Let us see what > Meenaraja > > > has > > > > to > > > > > > say. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th house, the native will have > > children, > > > > > > righteous > > > > > > > and kind. He will have good authority or rulership and > will > > > > enjoy > > > > > a > > > > > > good > > > > > > > eventful and enjoyable life. Bestowed with good > qualities, > > he > > > > > will > > > > > > do > > > > > > > many good deeds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Meenaraja Hora > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In one printed version of Meenaraja Hora the word Suseela > > is > > > > > quoted > > > > > > as > > > > > > > Sugeeta (Good in singing). Select the proper word based > on > > > > actual > > > > > > > experience observed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Note that as per Meenaraja lagna lord in 5th `provides > > > children' > > > > > > > and does not `destroy children'. Even though Parasara > only > > > says > > > > > > > that `lose of first child could happen', he too does not > > say > > > > > > > that `the native will not have children'. If we combine > the > > > > > > > statements of both Parasara and Meenaraja the only > > conclusion > > > > we > > > > > > could > > > > > > > reach is `The native will have children, but he may loss > > his > > > > first > > > > > > > child as well'. But it should be noted that the loss of > > first > > > > > child > > > > > > > does not seems to be logically supported in the absence > of > > > > malefic > > > > > > > influence on 5th house - this was my initial inference. > (An > > > > > > amendment is > > > > > > > proposed later) The sloka provided by Hora Pradeepam is > > > almost > > > > > the > > > > > > same > > > > > > > as that of Meenaraja. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th house, the native will have > > children, > > > > > > righteous > > > > > > > and kind. He will have good authority or rulership and > will > > > > enjoy > > > > > a > > > > > > good > > > > > > > eventful and happy life. Bestowed with good qualities, he > > > will > > > > do > > > > > > many > > > > > > > good deeds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Hora Pradeepam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parasara says that Lagna lord in 5th would make the > native > > > > angry - > > > > > > > > > > > why? > > > > > > > Clearly any direct logic is not visible. Sun is the > natural > > > > > > significator > > > > > > > of Lagna. If we are considering lagna lord in 5th as > > similar > > > to > > > > > sun > > > > > > in > > > > > > > 5th, then the above derivation would be justified and > > > possibly > > > > > the > > > > > > lose > > > > > > > of first child as well. But is it a correct approach? I > am > > > > > doubtful. > > > > > > > Only verifying the actual results from charts with > similar > > > > > > combination > > > > > > > can shed some light on this issue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rule 5: Lagna lord in any house should be treated similar > > to > > > > Sun > > > > > in > > > > > > that > > > > > > > house, since Sun is the natural significator of Lagna. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am a bit doubtful about the validity of the above rule. > > If > > > not > > > > > > > supported by actual results it is better to ignore the > > above > > > > > rule. > > > > > > The > > > > > > > logic supplied till now does not seem to be capable > enough > > to > > > > > > > satisfactorily explain the strong results proposed by > > > Parasara > > > > > such > > > > > > as - > > > > > > > Lagna lord in 5th causing the loss of first child; it > will > > > also > > > > > > make the > > > > > > > native an angry individual. There should be some other > > logic > > > as > > > > > > well. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On retrospect we feel that - Parasara will not say > > something > > > > > > without a > > > > > > > sold reason. Why should he bring planets base result (e.g. > > > > > > > benefic/malefic) into it, when he was dealing with House > > base > > > > > > > prediction? That is not logical. There could be some > other > > in- > > > > > depth > > > > > > > reason. Yes, you are right - there is. Let us analyze all > > the > > > > > > possible > > > > > > > houses and lagna lord in their fifth house, and check > > whether > > > > the > > > > > > same > > > > > > > can cause the loss of child - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) Aries lagna, lagna lord Mars in Leo: Yes, Leo is a > sign > > > > > > signifying > > > > > > > less children, and Mars a malefic in it can indicate loss > > of > > > > > child > > > > > > for > > > > > > > sure. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Taurus lagna, lagna lord Venus in Virgo: Virgo is the > > > > > > debilitation > > > > > > > sign for Venus. Also not that Venus owns the lordship of > > 6th > > > > > house > > > > > > as > > > > > > > well. Thus for sure for Taurus lagna Venus in 5th can > > > indicate > > > > > loss > > > > > > of > > > > > > > child for sure. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) Gemini lagna, lagna lord Me in Libra: Note that Venus > > the > > > > lord > > > > > of > > > > > > > Libra owns the 12th house (house indicating death) as > well. > > > > > > Possibly the > > > > > > > combination can indicate loss or death. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4) Cancer lagna, Moon in Scorpio: Scorpio is the > > debilitation > > > > > sign > > > > > > for > > > > > > > Moon. Ofcourse the same can indicate the loss of child. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5) Leo lagna, Sun in Sagittarius: Note that the lord of > > > > > Sagittarius > > > > > > > Jupiter owns the 8th house (death) as well. Thus > certainly > > the > > > > > > > combination can indicate the loss or death of child. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6) Virgo lagna, Me in Capricorn: The lord of Capricorn > > Saturn > > > > > owns > > > > > > the > > > > > > > 6th house as well. Possibly the combination can indicate > > bad > > > > > results > > > > > > > such as loss of child - amended by the fact that both > > Mercury > > > > and > > > > > > Saturn > > > > > > > are imbecile planets. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 7) Libra lagna, Venus in Aquarius: Note that lagna lord > > Venus > > > > is > > > > > > also > > > > > > > the 8th lord. Certainly 8th lord is a malefic, and a > > malefic > > > > > placed > > > > > > in > > > > > > > 5th can indicate lose of child. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you continue this analysis, you could see that for > most > > of > > > > the > > > > > 12 > > > > > > > signs, lagna lord placed in 5th can indicate the loss of > > > child, > > > > > even > > > > > > > though the same does not match perfectly for Aquarius and > > > > Pisces > > > > > > Lagna. > > > > > > > Thus it becomes clear that Parasara was not making a > > > statement > > > > > > without > > > > > > > base or without understanding. His derivation sprung from > > the > > > > deep > > > > > > > understanding that `for all the 12 signs, lagna lord in > 5th > > > is > > > > not > > > > > > > favorably placed, and this can be crystallized into the > > brief > > > > > > statement > > > > > > > - lagna lord in 5th can indicate bad results such as - > loss > > > of > > > > > first > > > > > > > child and anger'. Then is it that Meenaraja was wrong and > > > > Parasara > > > > > > > was right? No, it is not so. Meenaraja was deriving a > > result > > > > > based > > > > > > on > > > > > > > the prime condition – Lagna lord in 5th alone. For this > > prime > > > > > > > combination Meenaraja's derivation is absolutely right. > But > > > > > > > Parasara's amendment springs from his deep understanding > of > > > the > > > > > > > zodiac. He knew that the general statement regarding > lagna > > > lord > > > > > in > > > > > > other > > > > > > > houses may not be completely true for lagna lord in 5th, > > due > > > to > > > > > > > essential mutually co-related nature of the signs itself. > > So > > > > his > > > > > > opinion > > > > > > > would be, `Yes, Meenaraja is right. But you know the > Signs > > in > > > > > > > Zodiac, they have some specific connection to death as > far > > as > > > > 5th > > > > > > house > > > > > > > is concerned. So your general derivation as proposed by > > > > Meenaraja > > > > > > will > > > > > > > not work in this case. Consider this special nature of > 5th > > > from > > > > > all > > > > > > the > > > > > > > signs and modify your derivation accordingly. The you > will > > > see > > > > > that, > > > > > > > lagna lord in 5th can signify many bad results such as > loss > > > of > > > > > first > > > > > > > child and anger'. It must be this deeper understanding > which > > > > > > > prompted Parasara to suggest such a result. Yes, > Meenaraja > > is > > > > > > right, but > > > > > > > Parasara is also not off the mark. Meenaraja is concerned > > > with > > > > the > > > > > > > general logic of the derivation only, but Parasara goes > > > deeper > > > > in > > > > > > the > > > > > > > general zodiacal context. Note it - possibly in other > > > > situations > > > > > as > > > > > > well > > > > > > > the same could be the case - Parasara has a better > > > > understanding > > > > > > about > > > > > > > the zodiacal context, and may mix it with general result > > > > > > derivation. His > > > > > > > thought and understanding penetrates into deaths; and is > > more > > > > far > > > > > > and > > > > > > > wide. He is not depended on mere logic alone - he is more > > > > > > practical. It > > > > > > > is because of this in-depth understanding; Parasara is > > termed > > > a > > > > > > sage, > > > > > > > but Meenaraja a king, a scholar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But even this understanding of Parasara view does not > does > > > not > > > > > > allow me > > > > > > > to pardon him - because here to derive the result he > mixed > > > the > > > > > > methods > > > > > > > of Sign-House Base result derivation, while dealing with > > > House > > > > > Base > > > > > > > result derivation - causing confusion to the learner. I > > would > > > > > > suggest > > > > > > > that, in this context, the beginners should stick to the > > > > cleaner > > > > > and > > > > > > > systematic approach proposed by Meenaraja, while trying > to > > > > master > > > > > > House > > > > > > > Base result derivation technique. The deeper > possibilities > > and > > > > > > > modification to the suggested results should dealt with > and > > > > > > understood, > > > > > > > while trying to learn Sign-House Base result derivation > > > > technique. > > > > > > > The 5th house signifies things such as - children, > > > intelligence, > > > > > > > creativity, genius, stomach, belly, ministers, secret > hymns > > > > > recited > > > > > > etc. > > > > > > > Thus the placement of lagna lord in 5th generates special > > > > > > importance to > > > > > > > the derivations related to the same. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Extract from: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh/ > > > > > > La\ > > > > > > > gna%20lord%20in%20Various%20Houses.pdf > > > > > > > ============================================== > > > > > > > Love, > > > > > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2007 Report Share Posted September 27, 2007 Dear Srinadh, Leave it, I m not part of ur show, where u r the only script writer, director, actor, viewer and even the stage is your's. I had an impression that this is a open group where a collective learning may emerge to make astrology more advanced more effective but, I feel i was wrong in my understanding, you w'd never accept ur shortcomings and w'd never take inputs from members. so i drop it. u make ur rules for ur convenience sake, act on ur rules as per ur convenience and you teach rules to others as per ur conveniince and define liberty from rules as per ur convenience. when i saw ur post, instinctively, without thinking much about subsequent consequences, happen to respond to you, which will never be there, i m a I m a easy going man, open minded person. I have no objection, carry on ur show, i m silent. regards, Lalit. , " Sreenadh " <sreesog wrote: > > Dear Lalit ji, > The questions in articles are - > * Guidance to think. > * They are part of the process of thinking > * They are not demanding, requesting and asking someone to come and > give a ready made answer, such as " Perhaps u have not checked malefic > influence on 5'th house with horoscopes... and I will teach you the > remedy, the correct results and the method to be followed " ; know that > it is to motivate thinking; it is to motivate more fuel to the fire > with in; to guide others and me to learn to think itself - > systematically; in the way astrology demands! Note that 7-fold method > is a " Thought Tool " , a methodology for thinking. With a peaceful mind > think about it - and you will see what I mean. > What the questions you present in your own writeups/articles - you > will what I mean. > ==> > > if ur post is only house specific why u raise such questions and > > then try to find answers, > <== > I hope the above section clarifies this. The post was 'house > specific' that too is right. > ==> > > u urself asked the question in ur post - " Why should lagna > > lord going to 5th make the native an angry and aggressive > > individual " and tried to understand the reason > <== > Yes, I did raise that question and tried to answer it - because that > was a result derived by Parasara and I was thinking about the logic > behind it; Certainly that is related to 'House Base' derivation, and > not related to anything else. > Did you tried to think and find an answer to that question? Did you > checked the same in some example horoscopes and found that it doesn't > work? > Now let us come to your comment on the same - > Comment -1 > ==> > > If u r doing a commentary on the ancient classics, ur approach is > > right and there is lot to learn from such writings, but as > > far as learning is concerned, more urge to study and dissect the > > obsecure cases is required. > <== > What do you mean by 'obscure cases'? Do you mean example horoscopes? > The do it yourself - and present the results! That is the way to go - > an a research approach, and we too would be benefited by that; go > ahead and do it! Note that the above statement by you lacks even the > basic understanding that " the article was dealing with House Base > result derivation, and that too about LL in 5th " ! > Comment -2 > ==> > > same way, 5'th has connection to 11'th house, the house of gains, > > this combination of lagna lord's placement in 5'th house > > makes a person too much ambitious, self cenetered, he is self > > promting so should be aggressive coz his rise is his main objective > > of the life. This is what i observed. > <== > Yah, that is good logic - and a good suggestion. But note the last > statement " This is what i observed " ! We all know that you started > learning astrology before 5 months only. Of course you are a smart > learner, and has good logic, (I appreciate that, and happy about it). > Considering the above facts, possibly if it was something like - " This > is a better logical derivation I feel " , it would have been more > pleasant. Even if you have " observed " such combinations - your > time span of 5 months is not even enough to complete the training > period and clear the testing phase! :=) > Lalit ji, don't take all these comments personally - I love you very > much, and know well that it is rare to find such a good potential. > But don't do the mistake becoming a teacher; don't do the mistake of > becoming a teacher - your experience and knowledge is not enough for > that; I have at least 8 years experience as a professional > astrologer, but still I am a learner and yet to become a teacher; I > don't think in near future it would be possible as well; thus the > fact is there are no teachers in this group; and never can be. > We are all fellow students here - even though the amount of > knowledge may vary a bit from individual to individual; that is not > much important. But learning to be a learner, and being a learner, > and accepting that i am a learner and that my knowledge is limited - > IS important. We simply don't have answers to everything - and never > can be. > Be with me brother and give a bit credit for being elder... > Love and Hugs, > Sreenadh > > , " Sreenadh " > <sreesog@> wrote: > > > > Dear Lalit ji, > > Are you noticing that we are deviating from the subject? Present > > your views on Lagna lord in 5th in a well written way (In similar > > discussions - Baquya ji does it - he is good; Srinivas ji does it; > > Sunil Does it; RK ji does it; similarly many more members) and I > will > > love to see the same - whether it be from experience or from Logic. > > Second, I am NOT teaching anybody - but learning and presenting > > systematically - of course my experience as an astrologer, and of > the > > books would be useful in that effort. But never expect or feel that > I > > am teaching - I am NOT. Everybody learns by themselves. Everybody > > should try to present there sincere " understanding " " about the > > subject under discussion " with clarity. There is NO Teacher- > Learner, > > Master-Disciple here; But only learners - all members present in > this > > group are humble learners of the astrological wisdom presented by > > sages. I am a learner a student of them, and NOT a teacher to > anyone. > > Please understand this. > > Love, > > Sreenadh > > > > , " litsol " > > <mlalit@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Srinadh, > > > > > > Do u mean, If u r not clear somewhere or u r missing something > and > > > someone points out to the mising point, he himself lacks the > > > understanding, very good approach, sorry to interrupt this time, > > now > > > onwards will never try to correct you. > > > > > > However,u urself asked the question in ur post - " Why should > lagna > > > lord going to 5th make the native an angry and aggressive > > > individual " and tried to understand the reason, if ur post is > only > > > house specific why u raise such questions and then try to find > > > answers, simply i thuoght to correct ur effort with my > > understanding > > > but ur attitude is very different,So much inclination in teaching > > is > > > affecting ur's learning only. > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > Lalit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " Sreenadh " > > > <sreesog@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Lalit ji, > > > > Malefic effect in 5th causing many troubles is a known fact to > > all > > > > astrologers - no explanation is needed on the same. Knowing > what > > > > those troubles are, needs considering a lot of other > parameters. > > > > Deriving the details - which uses several methodologies such as > > > > Bhavat Bhava Chinta, Karkat Bhava chinta, considering other > > > > combinations - know that there is a big distance to go and it > is > > > not > > > > that simple. > > > > What we are doing here is not trying to reach some inflexible > > > > conclusion; or to analyze someone's horoscope; but to see to > what > > > > extend the slokas on 'House Base' derivation technique can > point > > > to. > > > > Try to understand things in the context they are. > > > > When you are trying your own bit of logic in something - > present > > > it > > > > that way; Instead of saying this is right or that is wrong, or > > > > somewhere else is the crux. Present - as per your logic you > think > > > it > > > > could be so and so. (Don't bring in I have seen such and such > in > > > some > > > > horoscope and so let us discuss that horoscope strategy as > well - > > > > that is not the way. If the same combination is present in some > > > known > > > > horoscope - the combination alone can be considered for > > > verification, > > > > and other feature or details of that horoscope should be > > neglected. > > > > We should stick to the context and the method of study). Loss > can > > > > mean many things - > > > > * It could be abortion > > > > * It could untimely death of son at a later age (as in the > case > > of > > > > Indira Gandhi) > > > > * It could be a missing son Or there could be many other > > > > possibilities as well. > > > > Neither the sloka nor we are going in to that details - > instead > > > what > > > > we are doing is 'Trying to learn the logical background and > > > concepts > > > > used in House Base derivation by the sages; and thus trying to > > > master > > > > that technique' - know this well. > > > > ==> > > > > > there are chances for the entire hard work to be confined to > > mere > > > > > translation of some shlokas, which i think, is certainly not > > the > > > > > objective. > > > > <== > > > > Clearly the above words come from lack of understanding of > > > objective > > > > and strategy, of this group. Please check - > > > > * The previous mails on the same thread > > > > * The files in the files folder dealing with similar things > > (i.e. > > > > Articles related to 7-fold result derivation technique of > > astrology) > > > > * Thus instead of starting afresh were you land yourself in > the > > > > forum, create a background to deal with the subject in hand, > > > > systematically. > > > > Note: The document regarding " Lagna lord in various houses was > > > there > > > > in file section for many days, and mails about file uploading > > goes > > > to > > > > every member, the main thread of discussion is on the same; but > > > alas! > > > > the never read or refer to such files and instead depend on the > > > > posted mails alone! No serious learner who approach astrology > > > > shouldn't follow such a method. He should download and study > them > > > > before putting in his bit - and that SHOULD BE a well thought > out > > > > one - depicting his sincerity and earnest effort to understand > > and > > > > learn the path shown by the sages " . Whether such a view matches > > > with > > > > mine or not is irrelevant. But the contribution should be > > valuable - > > > > > > > coming out from research, experience and effort. > > > > Hope the confusion is clarified. > > > > Love and Hugs, > > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > > > , " litsol " > > > > <mlalit@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Srinadh, > > > > > > > > > > Pls. tell where i m wrong in finding such shortcomings in > what > > u > > > > > tried to derive and explain after the translation, in fact, i > > > saw, > > > > u > > > > > urself tried to understand what is missing, struggled a lot, > > but > > > > just > > > > > stopped before touching the crux, a gap remained is to cover > > up. > > > > > > > > > > I suggested something for the betterment only. > > > > > > > > > > loss doesn't mean death, it may be girl child, it may be > > hopeless > > > > > child, it may be a child with poor health, we need to be more > > > > specific > > > > > while deriving the results and explaining them to group. > > > > > > > > > > be admissive and keep a holistic approach so that a right > > > learning > > > > > approach could be developed having inputs from every one, > > > > otherwise, > > > > > there are chances for the entire hardwork to be confined to > > mere > > > > > translation of some shlokas, which i think, is certainly not > > the > > > > > objective. > > > > > > > > > > if u mind and dont consider what u r told, i have no business > > to > > > > > interrupt you, u can move on ur ways. > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > Lalit. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " Sreenadh " > > > > > <sreesog@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lalit ji, > > > > > > Did you ever been an astrologer? I think not. Just simply > > > learn! > > > > > > Love, > > > > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > > > > > > > , " litsol " > > > > > > <mlalit@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Srinadh, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Perhapse u have not checked malific influence on 5'th > house > > > > with > > > > > > > horoscopes,However, i appreciate ur efforts to understand > > the > > > > > > > consequences of 5'th house as well as lagna lord's > > placement > > > in > > > > > > 5'th > > > > > > > house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A malific influence in 5'th does not always lead to loss > of > > > the > > > > > > first > > > > > > > child, this placement sometimes give girl child, death of > > > child > > > > > is > > > > > > an > > > > > > > extreme result which happens in cases of extreme > > malificance. > > > I > > > > > > > remember once u said during discussion of BB that 4'th > > house > > > > may > > > > > > > denote loss of child, if 4'th there are other house as > well > > > as > > > > > with > > > > > > > reference to 5'th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If u r doing a commentary on the ancient classics, ur > > > approach > > > > is > > > > > > > right and there is lot to learn from such writings, but > as > > > far > > > > as > > > > > > > learning is concerned, more urge to study and dissect the > > > > > obsecure > > > > > > > cases is required. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > same way, 5'th has connection to 11'th house, the house > of > > > > gains, > > > > > > > this combination of lagna lord's placement in 5'th house > > > makes > > > > a > > > > > > > person too much ambitious, self cenetered, he is self > > > promting > > > > so > > > > > > > should be aggressive coz his rise is his main objective > of > > > the > > > > > life. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is what i observed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > Lalit. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > , " Sreenadh " > > > > > > > <sreesog@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The results for Lagna lord in 5th house is discussed > > > below. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ============================================== > > > > > > > > Lagna lord in 5th House > > > > > > > > ----------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be proud an > > > > > individual > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > much self-respect and reputation and a bit angry but > > > > righteous > > > > > > and > > > > > > > kind. > > > > > > > > He will have children. He may have moderate well- being > > from > > > > > > > children and > > > > > > > > may lose his first child as well, especially if there > is > > > some > > > > > > > malefic > > > > > > > > influence on 5th house. He would be dear to the people > > with > > > > > power > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > authority. He will have good authority or rulership and > > > will > > > > > > enjoy a > > > > > > > > good eventful and enjoyable life. Bestowed with good > > > > qualities, > > > > > > he > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > do many good deeds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be angry; > will > > > have > > > > > > > moderate > > > > > > > > well-being from children. The native will lose his > first > > > > child. > > > > > > He > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > be a proud individual with much self-respect and > > > reputation. > > > > He > > > > > > > would be > > > > > > > > dear to the king. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Parasara Hora > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why should lagna lord going to 5th make the native an > > angry > > > > and > > > > > > > > aggressive individual? One of the logic behind could > be - > > > 5th > > > > > is > > > > > > 3rd > > > > > > > > from 3rd house; and Upachaya (increase) stana of 3rd > > house. > > > > 3rd > > > > > > > house > > > > > > > > signify anger and possibly that is why lagna lord in > 5th > > > > > > increases > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > anger and agitation of the native. But also not that > 5th > > is > > > > 2nd > > > > > > > house > > > > > > > > from 4th (simple and humble mind) making the native a > > > > straight > > > > > > > forward > > > > > > > > individual. It is also mentioned in the sloka that the > > > native > > > > > > will > > > > > > > lose > > > > > > > > his first child - why? The natural expectation would be > > > that > > > > > > lagna > > > > > > > lord > > > > > > > > in 5th should bestow good results for 5th, thus > providing > > > > > > children > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > happiness from children to the native. Of course if > lagna > > > > lord > > > > > is > > > > > > > in 5th > > > > > > > > is afflicted by some malefic, then it would have double > > > > impact, > > > > > > > since > > > > > > > > the same would affect both the 5th house and the lagna > > lord > > > > > > > amplifying > > > > > > > > the possibility for bad result. Since 5th could signify > > the > > > > > first > > > > > > > child > > > > > > > > the bad result could be attributed to the first child > as > > > > well. > > > > > > > Actually > > > > > > > > this is what we see mentioned in Meenaraja hora. But > > > Parasara > > > > > > > provides > > > > > > > > no such clue about any required malefic influence in > 5th > > > > house! > > > > > > We > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > wonder stuck by this derivation, and we fail to imagine > > any > > > > > solid > > > > > > > reason > > > > > > > > behind such a derivation in the absence of any malefic > > > > > influence > > > > > > on > > > > > > > 5th > > > > > > > > house. Another version of the same sloka is available, > > > which > > > > > also > > > > > > > > provides similar results. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be proud; > will > > > have > > > > > > > moderate > > > > > > > > well-being from children. He will lose his first child. > > He > > > > > would > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > angry and will have special privileges in the king's > > place. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Parasara Hora > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Apart from minor differences this sloka gives almost > same > > > > > results > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > above. It seems that, the loss of first child should be > > > > > predicted > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > if there is a malefic influence in 5th house, since the > > > other > > > > > > > available > > > > > > > > slokas give good results concerning children if lagna > > lord > > > is > > > > > in > > > > > > 5th > > > > > > > > house. [Note that similar to in this sloka Parasara > will > > > not > > > > > > mention > > > > > > > > `if the lagna lord is malefic and placed in x house' in > > many > > > > > > > > other slokas as well. We will encounter this writing > > style > > > > > > related > > > > > > > issue > > > > > > > > in many other instances as well] Let us see what > > Meenaraja > > > > has > > > > > to > > > > > > > say. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th house, the native will have > > > children, > > > > > > > righteous > > > > > > > > and kind. He will have good authority or rulership and > > will > > > > > enjoy > > > > > > a > > > > > > > good > > > > > > > > eventful and enjoyable life. Bestowed with good > > qualities, > > > he > > > > > > will > > > > > > > do > > > > > > > > many good deeds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Meenaraja Hora > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In one printed version of Meenaraja Hora the word > Suseela > > > is > > > > > > quoted > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > Sugeeta (Good in singing). Select the proper word based > > on > > > > > actual > > > > > > > > experience observed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Note that as per Meenaraja lagna lord in 5th `provides > > > > children' > > > > > > > > and does not `destroy children'. Even though Parasara > > only > > > > says > > > > > > > > that `lose of first child could happen', he too does > not > > > say > > > > > > > > that `the native will not have children'. If we combine > > the > > > > > > > > statements of both Parasara and Meenaraja the only > > > conclusion > > > > > we > > > > > > > could > > > > > > > > reach is `The native will have children, but he may > loss > > > his > > > > > first > > > > > > > > child as well'. But it should be noted that the loss of > > > first > > > > > > child > > > > > > > > does not seems to be logically supported in the absence > > of > > > > > malefic > > > > > > > > influence on 5th house - this was my initial inference. > > (An > > > > > > > amendment is > > > > > > > > proposed later) The sloka provided by Hora Pradeepam is > > > > almost > > > > > > the > > > > > > > same > > > > > > > > as that of Meenaraja. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th house, the native will have > > > children, > > > > > > > righteous > > > > > > > > and kind. He will have good authority or rulership and > > will > > > > > enjoy > > > > > > a > > > > > > > good > > > > > > > > eventful and happy life. Bestowed with good qualities, > he > > > > will > > > > > do > > > > > > > many > > > > > > > > good deeds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Hora Pradeepam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parasara says that Lagna lord in 5th would make the > > native > > > > > angry - > > > > > > > > > > > > > why? > > > > > > > > Clearly any direct logic is not visible. Sun is the > > natural > > > > > > > significator > > > > > > > > of Lagna. If we are considering lagna lord in 5th as > > > similar > > > > to > > > > > > sun > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > 5th, then the above derivation would be justified and > > > > possibly > > > > > > the > > > > > > > lose > > > > > > > > of first child as well. But is it a correct approach? I > > am > > > > > > doubtful. > > > > > > > > Only verifying the actual results from charts with > > similar > > > > > > > combination > > > > > > > > can shed some light on this issue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rule 5: Lagna lord in any house should be treated > similar > > > to > > > > > Sun > > > > > > in > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > house, since Sun is the natural significator of Lagna. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am a bit doubtful about the validity of the above > rule. > > > If > > > > not > > > > > > > > supported by actual results it is better to ignore the > > > above > > > > > > rule. > > > > > > > The > > > > > > > > logic supplied till now does not seem to be capable > > enough > > > to > > > > > > > > satisfactorily explain the strong results proposed by > > > > Parasara > > > > > > such > > > > > > > as - > > > > > > > > Lagna lord in 5th causing the loss of first child; it > > will > > > > also > > > > > > > make the > > > > > > > > native an angry individual. There should be some other > > > logic > > > > as > > > > > > > well. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On retrospect we feel that - Parasara will not say > > > something > > > > > > > without a > > > > > > > > sold reason. Why should he bring planets base result > (e.g. > > > > > > > > benefic/malefic) into it, when he was dealing with > House > > > base > > > > > > > > prediction? That is not logical. There could be some > > other > > > in- > > > > > > depth > > > > > > > > reason. Yes, you are right - there is. Let us analyze > all > > > the > > > > > > > possible > > > > > > > > houses and lagna lord in their fifth house, and check > > > whether > > > > > the > > > > > > > same > > > > > > > > can cause the loss of child - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) Aries lagna, lagna lord Mars in Leo: Yes, Leo is a > > sign > > > > > > > signifying > > > > > > > > less children, and Mars a malefic in it can indicate > loss > > > of > > > > > > child > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > sure. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Taurus lagna, lagna lord Venus in Virgo: Virgo is > the > > > > > > > debilitation > > > > > > > > sign for Venus. Also not that Venus owns the lordship > of > > > 6th > > > > > > house > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > well. Thus for sure for Taurus lagna Venus in 5th can > > > > indicate > > > > > > loss > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > child for sure. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) Gemini lagna, lagna lord Me in Libra: Note that > Venus > > > the > > > > > lord > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > Libra owns the 12th house (house indicating death) as > > well. > > > > > > > Possibly the > > > > > > > > combination can indicate loss or death. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4) Cancer lagna, Moon in Scorpio: Scorpio is the > > > debilitation > > > > > > sign > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > Moon. Ofcourse the same can indicate the loss of child. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5) Leo lagna, Sun in Sagittarius: Note that the lord of > > > > > > Sagittarius > > > > > > > > Jupiter owns the 8th house (death) as well. Thus > > certainly > > > the > > > > > > > > combination can indicate the loss or death of child. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6) Virgo lagna, Me in Capricorn: The lord of Capricorn > > > Saturn > > > > > > owns > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > 6th house as well. Possibly the combination can > indicate > > > bad > > > > > > results > > > > > > > > such as loss of child - amended by the fact that both > > > Mercury > > > > > and > > > > > > > Saturn > > > > > > > > are imbecile planets. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 7) Libra lagna, Venus in Aquarius: Note that lagna lord > > > Venus > > > > > is > > > > > > > also > > > > > > > > the 8th lord. Certainly 8th lord is a malefic, and a > > > malefic > > > > > > placed > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > 5th can indicate lose of child. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you continue this analysis, you could see that for > > most > > > of > > > > > the > > > > > > 12 > > > > > > > > signs, lagna lord placed in 5th can indicate the loss > of > > > > child, > > > > > > even > > > > > > > > though the same does not match perfectly for Aquarius > and > > > > > Pisces > > > > > > > Lagna. > > > > > > > > Thus it becomes clear that Parasara was not making a > > > > statement > > > > > > > without > > > > > > > > base or without understanding. His derivation sprung > from > > > the > > > > > deep > > > > > > > > understanding that `for all the 12 signs, lagna lord in > > 5th > > > > is > > > > > not > > > > > > > > favorably placed, and this can be crystallized into the > > > brief > > > > > > > statement > > > > > > > > - lagna lord in 5th can indicate bad results such as - > > loss > > > > of > > > > > > first > > > > > > > > child and anger'. Then is it that Meenaraja was wrong > and > > > > > Parasara > > > > > > > > was right? No, it is not so. Meenaraja was deriving a > > > result > > > > > > based > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > the prime condition – Lagna lord in 5th alone. For this > > > prime > > > > > > > > combination Meenaraja's derivation is absolutely right. > > But > > > > > > > > Parasara's amendment springs from his deep > understanding > > of > > > > the > > > > > > > > zodiac. He knew that the general statement regarding > > lagna > > > > lord > > > > > > in > > > > > > > other > > > > > > > > houses may not be completely true for lagna lord in > 5th, > > > due > > > > to > > > > > > > > essential mutually co-related nature of the signs > itself. > > > So > > > > > his > > > > > > > opinion > > > > > > > > would be, `Yes, Meenaraja is right. But you know the > > Signs > > > in > > > > > > > > Zodiac, they have some specific connection to death as > > far > > > as > > > > > 5th > > > > > > > house > > > > > > > > is concerned. So your general derivation as proposed by > > > > > Meenaraja > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > not work in this case. Consider this special nature of > > 5th > > > > from > > > > > > all > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > signs and modify your derivation accordingly. The you > > will > > > > see > > > > > > that, > > > > > > > > lagna lord in 5th can signify many bad results such as > > loss > > > > of > > > > > > first > > > > > > > > child and anger'. It must be this deeper understanding > > which > > > > > > > > prompted Parasara to suggest such a result. Yes, > > Meenaraja > > > is > > > > > > > right, but > > > > > > > > Parasara is also not off the mark. Meenaraja is > concerned > > > > with > > > > > the > > > > > > > > general logic of the derivation only, but Parasara goes > > > > deeper > > > > > in > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > general zodiacal context. Note it - possibly in other > > > > > situations > > > > > > as > > > > > > > well > > > > > > > > the same could be the case - Parasara has a better > > > > > understanding > > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > the zodiacal context, and may mix it with general > result > > > > > > > derivation. His > > > > > > > > thought and understanding penetrates into deaths; and > is > > > more > > > > > far > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > wide. He is not depended on mere logic alone - he is > more > > > > > > > practical. It > > > > > > > > is because of this in-depth understanding; Parasara is > > > termed > > > > a > > > > > > > sage, > > > > > > > > but Meenaraja a king, a scholar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But even this understanding of Parasara view does not > > does > > > > not > > > > > > > allow me > > > > > > > > to pardon him - because here to derive the result he > > mixed > > > > the > > > > > > > methods > > > > > > > > of Sign-House Base result derivation, while dealing > with > > > > House > > > > > > Base > > > > > > > > result derivation - causing confusion to the learner. I > > > would > > > > > > > suggest > > > > > > > > that, in this context, the beginners should stick to > the > > > > > cleaner > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > systematic approach proposed by Meenaraja, while trying > > to > > > > > master > > > > > > > House > > > > > > > > Base result derivation technique. The deeper > > possibilities > > > and > > > > > > > > modification to the suggested results should dealt with > > and > > > > > > > understood, > > > > > > > > while trying to learn Sign-House Base result derivation > > > > > technique. > > > > > > > > The 5th house signifies things such as - children, > > > > intelligence, > > > > > > > > creativity, genius, stomach, belly, ministers, secret > > hymns > > > > > > recited > > > > > > > etc. > > > > > > > > Thus the placement of lagna lord in 5th generates > special > > > > > > > importance to > > > > > > > > the derivations related to the same. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Extract from: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh/ > > > > > > > La\ > > > > > > > > gna%20lord%20in%20Various%20Houses.pdf > > > > > > > > ============================================== > > > > > > > > Love, > > > > > > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2007 Report Share Posted September 27, 2007 Mmm....I know it takes time... Take care.... Love, Sreenadh , " litsol " <mlalit wrote: > > Dear Srinadh, > > Leave it, I m not part of ur show, where u r the only script writer, > director, actor, viewer and even the stage is your's. > > I had an impression that this is a open group where a collective > learning may emerge to make astrology more advanced more effective > but, I feel i was wrong in my understanding, you w'd never accept ur > shortcomings and w'd never take inputs from members. so i drop it. > > u make ur rules for ur convenience sake, act on ur rules as per ur > convenience and you teach rules to others as per ur conveniince and > define liberty from rules as per ur convenience. > > when i saw ur post, instinctively, without thinking much about > subsequent consequences, happen to respond to you, which will never > be there, i m a I m a easy going man, open minded person. > > I have no objection, carry on ur show, i m silent. > > regards, > Lalit. > > > , " Sreenadh " > <sreesog@> wrote: > > > > Dear Lalit ji, > > The questions in articles are - > > * Guidance to think. > > * They are part of the process of thinking > > * They are not demanding, requesting and asking someone to come > and > > give a ready made answer, such as " Perhaps u have not checked > malefic > > influence on 5'th house with horoscopes... and I will teach you the > > remedy, the correct results and the method to be followed " ; know > that > > it is to motivate thinking; it is to motivate more fuel to the fire > > with in; to guide others and me to learn to think itself - > > systematically; in the way astrology demands! Note that 7-fold > method > > is a " Thought Tool " , a methodology for thinking. With a peaceful > mind > > think about it - and you will see what I mean. > > What the questions you present in your own writeups/articles - > you > > will what I mean. > > ==> > > > if ur post is only house specific why u raise such questions and > > > then try to find answers, > > <== > > I hope the above section clarifies this. The post was 'house > > specific' that too is right. > > ==> > > > u urself asked the question in ur post - " Why should lagna > > > lord going to 5th make the native an angry and aggressive > > > individual " and tried to understand the reason > > <== > > Yes, I did raise that question and tried to answer it - because > that > > was a result derived by Parasara and I was thinking about the logic > > behind it; Certainly that is related to 'House Base' derivation, > and > > not related to anything else. > > Did you tried to think and find an answer to that question? Did > you > > checked the same in some example horoscopes and found that it > doesn't > > work? > > Now let us come to your comment on the same - > > Comment -1 > > ==> > > > If u r doing a commentary on the ancient classics, ur approach is > > > right and there is lot to learn from such writings, but as > > > far as learning is concerned, more urge to study and dissect the > > > obsecure cases is required. > > <== > > What do you mean by 'obscure cases'? Do you mean example > horoscopes? > > The do it yourself - and present the results! That is the way to > go - > > an a research approach, and we too would be benefited by that; go > > ahead and do it! Note that the above statement by you lacks even > the > > basic understanding that " the article was dealing with House Base > > result derivation, and that too about LL in 5th " ! > > Comment -2 > > ==> > > > same way, 5'th has connection to 11'th house, the house of gains, > > > this combination of lagna lord's placement in 5'th house > > > makes a person too much ambitious, self cenetered, he is self > > > promting so should be aggressive coz his rise is his main > objective > > > of the life. This is what i observed. > > <== > > Yah, that is good logic - and a good suggestion. But note the last > > statement " This is what i observed " ! We all know that you started > > learning astrology before 5 months only. Of course you are a > smart > > learner, and has good logic, (I appreciate that, and happy about > it). > > Considering the above facts, possibly if it was something like - > " This > > is a better logical derivation I feel " , it would have been more > > pleasant. Even if you have " observed " such combinations - your > > time span of 5 months is not even enough to complete the training > > period and clear the testing phase! :=) > > Lalit ji, don't take all these comments personally - I love you > very > > much, and know well that it is rare to find such a good potential. > > But don't do the mistake becoming a teacher; don't do the mistake > of > > becoming a teacher - your experience and knowledge is not enough > for > > that; I have at least 8 years experience as a professional > > astrologer, but still I am a learner and yet to become a teacher; I > > don't think in near future it would be possible as well; thus the > > fact is there are no teachers in this group; and never can be. > > We are all fellow students here - even though the amount of > > knowledge may vary a bit from individual to individual; that is not > > much important. But learning to be a learner, and being a > learner, > > and accepting that i am a learner and that my knowledge is limited - > > > IS important. We simply don't have answers to everything - and > never > > can be. > > Be with me brother and give a bit credit for being elder... > > Love and Hugs, > > Sreenadh > > > > , " Sreenadh " > > <sreesog@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Lalit ji, > > > Are you noticing that we are deviating from the subject? Present > > > your views on Lagna lord in 5th in a well written way (In > similar > > > discussions - Baquya ji does it - he is good; Srinivas ji does > it; > > > Sunil Does it; RK ji does it; similarly many more members) and I > > will > > > love to see the same - whether it be from experience or from > Logic. > > > Second, I am NOT teaching anybody - but learning and presenting > > > systematically - of course my experience as an astrologer, and of > > the > > > books would be useful in that effort. But never expect or feel > that > > I > > > am teaching - I am NOT. Everybody learns by themselves. Everybody > > > should try to present there sincere " understanding " " about the > > > subject under discussion " with clarity. There is NO Teacher- > > Learner, > > > Master-Disciple here; But only learners - all members present in > > this > > > group are humble learners of the astrological wisdom presented by > > > sages. I am a learner a student of them, and NOT a teacher to > > anyone. > > > Please understand this. > > > Love, > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > , " litsol " > > > <mlalit@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Srinadh, > > > > > > > > Do u mean, If u r not clear somewhere or u r missing something > > and > > > > someone points out to the mising point, he himself lacks the > > > > understanding, very good approach, sorry to interrupt this > time, > > > now > > > > onwards will never try to correct you. > > > > > > > > However,u urself asked the question in ur post - " Why should > > lagna > > > > lord going to 5th make the native an angry and aggressive > > > > individual " and tried to understand the reason, if ur post is > > only > > > > house specific why u raise such questions and then try to find > > > > answers, simply i thuoght to correct ur effort with my > > > understanding > > > > but ur attitude is very different,So much inclination in > teaching > > > is > > > > affecting ur's learning only. > > > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > Lalit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " Sreenadh " > > > > <sreesog@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lalit ji, > > > > > Malefic effect in 5th causing many troubles is a known fact > to > > > all > > > > > astrologers - no explanation is needed on the same. Knowing > > what > > > > > those troubles are, needs considering a lot of other > > parameters. > > > > > Deriving the details - which uses several methodologies such > as > > > > > Bhavat Bhava Chinta, Karkat Bhava chinta, considering other > > > > > combinations - know that there is a big distance to go and it > > is > > > > not > > > > > that simple. > > > > > What we are doing here is not trying to reach some > inflexible > > > > > conclusion; or to analyze someone's horoscope; but to see to > > what > > > > > extend the slokas on 'House Base' derivation technique can > > point > > > > to. > > > > > Try to understand things in the context they are. > > > > > When you are trying your own bit of logic in something - > > present > > > > it > > > > > that way; Instead of saying this is right or that is wrong, > or > > > > > somewhere else is the crux. Present - as per your logic you > > think > > > > it > > > > > could be so and so. (Don't bring in I have seen such and such > > in > > > > some > > > > > horoscope and so let us discuss that horoscope strategy as > > well - > > > > > that is not the way. If the same combination is present in > some > > > > known > > > > > horoscope - the combination alone can be considered for > > > > verification, > > > > > and other feature or details of that horoscope should be > > > neglected. > > > > > We should stick to the context and the method of study). Loss > > can > > > > > mean many things - > > > > > * It could be abortion > > > > > * It could untimely death of son at a later age (as in the > > case > > > of > > > > > Indira Gandhi) > > > > > * It could be a missing son Or there could be many other > > > > > possibilities as well. > > > > > Neither the sloka nor we are going in to that details - > > instead > > > > what > > > > > we are doing is 'Trying to learn the logical background and > > > > concepts > > > > > used in House Base derivation by the sages; and thus trying > to > > > > master > > > > > that technique' - know this well. > > > > > ==> > > > > > > there are chances for the entire hard work to be confined > to > > > mere > > > > > > translation of some shlokas, which i think, is certainly > not > > > the > > > > > > objective. > > > > > <== > > > > > Clearly the above words come from lack of understanding of > > > > objective > > > > > and strategy, of this group. Please check - > > > > > * The previous mails on the same thread > > > > > * The files in the files folder dealing with similar things > > > (i.e. > > > > > Articles related to 7-fold result derivation technique of > > > astrology) > > > > > * Thus instead of starting afresh were you land yourself in > > the > > > > > forum, create a background to deal with the subject in hand, > > > > > systematically. > > > > > Note: The document regarding " Lagna lord in various houses > was > > > > there > > > > > in file section for many days, and mails about file uploading > > > goes > > > > to > > > > > every member, the main thread of discussion is on the same; > but > > > > alas! > > > > > the never read or refer to such files and instead depend on > the > > > > > posted mails alone! No serious learner who approach astrology > > > > > shouldn't follow such a method. He should download and study > > them > > > > > before putting in his bit - and that SHOULD BE a well thought > > out > > > > > one - depicting his sincerity and earnest effort to > understand > > > and > > > > > learn the path shown by the sages " . Whether such a view > matches > > > > with > > > > > mine or not is irrelevant. But the contribution should be > > > valuable - > > > > > > > > > coming out from research, experience and effort. > > > > > Hope the confusion is clarified. > > > > > Love and Hugs, > > > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > > > > > , " litsol " > > > > > <mlalit@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Srinadh, > > > > > > > > > > > > Pls. tell where i m wrong in finding such shortcomings in > > what > > > u > > > > > > tried to derive and explain after the translation, in fact, > i > > > > saw, > > > > > u > > > > > > urself tried to understand what is missing, struggled a > lot, > > > but > > > > > just > > > > > > stopped before touching the crux, a gap remained is to > cover > > > up. > > > > > > > > > > > > I suggested something for the betterment only. > > > > > > > > > > > > loss doesn't mean death, it may be girl child, it may be > > > hopeless > > > > > > child, it may be a child with poor health, we need to be > more > > > > > specific > > > > > > while deriving the results and explaining them to group. > > > > > > > > > > > > be admissive and keep a holistic approach so that a right > > > > learning > > > > > > approach could be developed having inputs from every one, > > > > > otherwise, > > > > > > there are chances for the entire hardwork to be confined to > > > mere > > > > > > translation of some shlokas, which i think, is certainly > not > > > the > > > > > > objective. > > > > > > > > > > > > if u mind and dont consider what u r told, i have no > business > > > to > > > > > > interrupt you, u can move on ur ways. > > > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > Lalit. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " Sreenadh " > > > > > > <sreesog@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lalit ji, > > > > > > > Did you ever been an astrologer? I think not. Just > simply > > > > learn! > > > > > > > Love, > > > > > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " litsol " > > > > > > > <mlalit@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Srinadh, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Perhapse u have not checked malific influence on 5'th > > house > > > > > with > > > > > > > > horoscopes,However, i appreciate ur efforts to > understand > > > the > > > > > > > > consequences of 5'th house as well as lagna lord's > > > placement > > > > in > > > > > > > 5'th > > > > > > > > house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A malific influence in 5'th does not always lead to > loss > > of > > > > the > > > > > > > first > > > > > > > > child, this placement sometimes give girl child, death > of > > > > child > > > > > > is > > > > > > > an > > > > > > > > extreme result which happens in cases of extreme > > > malificance. > > > > I > > > > > > > > remember once u said during discussion of BB that 4'th > > > house > > > > > may > > > > > > > > denote loss of child, if 4'th there are other house as > > well > > > > as > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > reference to 5'th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If u r doing a commentary on the ancient classics, ur > > > > approach > > > > > is > > > > > > > > right and there is lot to learn from such writings, but > > as > > > > far > > > > > as > > > > > > > > learning is concerned, more urge to study and dissect > the > > > > > > obsecure > > > > > > > > cases is required. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > same way, 5'th has connection to 11'th house, the house > > of > > > > > gains, > > > > > > > > this combination of lagna lord's placement in 5'th > house > > > > makes > > > > > a > > > > > > > > person too much ambitious, self cenetered, he is self > > > > promting > > > > > so > > > > > > > > should be aggressive coz his rise is his main objective > > of > > > > the > > > > > > life. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is what i observed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > Lalit. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > , " Sreenadh " > > > > > > > > <sreesog@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The results for Lagna lord in 5th house is > discussed > > > > below. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ============================================== > > > > > > > > > Lagna lord in 5th House > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be proud an > > > > > > individual > > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > much self-respect and reputation and a bit angry but > > > > > righteous > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > kind. > > > > > > > > > He will have children. He may have moderate well- > being > > > from > > > > > > > > children and > > > > > > > > > may lose his first child as well, especially if there > > is > > > > some > > > > > > > > malefic > > > > > > > > > influence on 5th house. He would be dear to the > people > > > with > > > > > > power > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > authority. He will have good authority or rulership > and > > > > will > > > > > > > enjoy a > > > > > > > > > good eventful and enjoyable life. Bestowed with good > > > > > qualities, > > > > > > > he > > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > do many good deeds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be angry; > > will > > > > have > > > > > > > > moderate > > > > > > > > > well-being from children. The native will lose his > > first > > > > > child. > > > > > > > He > > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > be a proud individual with much self-respect and > > > > reputation. > > > > > He > > > > > > > > would be > > > > > > > > > dear to the king. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Parasara Hora > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why should lagna lord going to 5th make the native an > > > angry > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > aggressive individual? One of the logic behind could > > be - > > > > 5th > > > > > > is > > > > > > > 3rd > > > > > > > > > from 3rd house; and Upachaya (increase) stana of 3rd > > > house. > > > > > 3rd > > > > > > > > house > > > > > > > > > signify anger and possibly that is why lagna lord in > > 5th > > > > > > > increases > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > anger and agitation of the native. But also not that > > 5th > > > is > > > > > 2nd > > > > > > > > house > > > > > > > > > from 4th (simple and humble mind) making the native a > > > > > straight > > > > > > > > forward > > > > > > > > > individual. It is also mentioned in the sloka that > the > > > > native > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > lose > > > > > > > > > his first child - why? The natural expectation would > be > > > > that > > > > > > > lagna > > > > > > > > lord > > > > > > > > > in 5th should bestow good results for 5th, thus > > providing > > > > > > > children > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > happiness from children to the native. Of course if > > lagna > > > > > lord > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > in 5th > > > > > > > > > is afflicted by some malefic, then it would have > double > > > > > impact, > > > > > > > > since > > > > > > > > > the same would affect both the 5th house and the > lagna > > > lord > > > > > > > > amplifying > > > > > > > > > the possibility for bad result. Since 5th could > signify > > > the > > > > > > first > > > > > > > > child > > > > > > > > > the bad result could be attributed to the first child > > as > > > > > well. > > > > > > > > Actually > > > > > > > > > this is what we see mentioned in Meenaraja hora. But > > > > Parasara > > > > > > > > provides > > > > > > > > > no such clue about any required malefic influence in > > 5th > > > > > house! > > > > > > > We > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > wonder stuck by this derivation, and we fail to > imagine > > > any > > > > > > solid > > > > > > > > reason > > > > > > > > > behind such a derivation in the absence of any > malefic > > > > > > influence > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > 5th > > > > > > > > > house. Another version of the same sloka is > available, > > > > which > > > > > > also > > > > > > > > > provides similar results. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be proud; > > will > > > > have > > > > > > > > moderate > > > > > > > > > well-being from children. He will lose his first > child. > > > He > > > > > > would > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > angry and will have special privileges in the king's > > > place. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Parasara Hora > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Apart from minor differences this sloka gives almost > > same > > > > > > results > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > above. It seems that, the loss of first child should > be > > > > > > predicted > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > if there is a malefic influence in 5th house, since > the > > > > other > > > > > > > > available > > > > > > > > > slokas give good results concerning children if lagna > > > lord > > > > is > > > > > > in > > > > > > > 5th > > > > > > > > > house. [Note that similar to in this sloka Parasara > > will > > > > not > > > > > > > mention > > > > > > > > > `if the lagna lord is malefic and placed in x house' > in > > > many > > > > > > > > > other slokas as well. We will encounter this writing > > > style > > > > > > > related > > > > > > > > issue > > > > > > > > > in many other instances as well] Let us see what > > > Meenaraja > > > > > has > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > say. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th house, the native will have > > > > children, > > > > > > > > righteous > > > > > > > > > and kind. He will have good authority or rulership > and > > > will > > > > > > enjoy > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > good > > > > > > > > > eventful and enjoyable life. Bestowed with good > > > qualities, > > > > he > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > do > > > > > > > > > many good deeds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Meenaraja Hora > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In one printed version of Meenaraja Hora the word > > Suseela > > > > is > > > > > > > quoted > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > Sugeeta (Good in singing). Select the proper word > based > > > on > > > > > > actual > > > > > > > > > experience observed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Note that as per Meenaraja lagna lord in 5th > `provides > > > > > children' > > > > > > > > > and does not `destroy children'. Even though Parasara > > > only > > > > > says > > > > > > > > > that `lose of first child could happen', he too does > > not > > > > say > > > > > > > > > that `the native will not have children'. If we > combine > > > the > > > > > > > > > statements of both Parasara and Meenaraja the only > > > > conclusion > > > > > > we > > > > > > > > could > > > > > > > > > reach is `The native will have children, but he may > > loss > > > > his > > > > > > first > > > > > > > > > child as well'. But it should be noted that the loss > of > > > > first > > > > > > > child > > > > > > > > > does not seems to be logically supported in the > absence > > > of > > > > > > malefic > > > > > > > > > influence on 5th house - this was my initial > inference. > > > (An > > > > > > > > amendment is > > > > > > > > > proposed later) The sloka provided by Hora Pradeepam > is > > > > > almost > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > same > > > > > > > > > as that of Meenaraja. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th house, the native will have > > > > children, > > > > > > > > righteous > > > > > > > > > and kind. He will have good authority or rulership > and > > > will > > > > > > enjoy > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > good > > > > > > > > > eventful and happy life. Bestowed with good > qualities, > > he > > > > > will > > > > > > do > > > > > > > > many > > > > > > > > > good deeds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Hora Pradeepam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parasara says that Lagna lord in 5th would make the > > > native > > > > > > angry - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > why? > > > > > > > > > Clearly any direct logic is not visible. Sun is the > > > natural > > > > > > > > significator > > > > > > > > > of Lagna. If we are considering lagna lord in 5th as > > > > similar > > > > > to > > > > > > > sun > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > 5th, then the above derivation would be justified and > > > > > possibly > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > lose > > > > > > > > > of first child as well. But is it a correct approach? > I > > > am > > > > > > > doubtful. > > > > > > > > > Only verifying the actual results from charts with > > > similar > > > > > > > > combination > > > > > > > > > can shed some light on this issue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rule 5: Lagna lord in any house should be treated > > similar > > > > to > > > > > > Sun > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > house, since Sun is the natural significator of Lagna. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am a bit doubtful about the validity of the above > > rule. > > > > If > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > supported by actual results it is better to ignore > the > > > > above > > > > > > > rule. > > > > > > > > The > > > > > > > > > logic supplied till now does not seem to be capable > > > enough > > > > to > > > > > > > > > satisfactorily explain the strong results proposed by > > > > > Parasara > > > > > > > such > > > > > > > > as - > > > > > > > > > Lagna lord in 5th causing the loss of first child; it > > > will > > > > > also > > > > > > > > make the > > > > > > > > > native an angry individual. There should be some > other > > > > logic > > > > > as > > > > > > > > well. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On retrospect we feel that - Parasara will not say > > > > something > > > > > > > > without a > > > > > > > > > sold reason. Why should he bring planets base result > > (e.g. > > > > > > > > > benefic/malefic) into it, when he was dealing with > > House > > > > base > > > > > > > > > prediction? That is not logical. There could be some > > > other > > > > in- > > > > > > > depth > > > > > > > > > reason. Yes, you are right - there is. Let us analyze > > all > > > > the > > > > > > > > possible > > > > > > > > > houses and lagna lord in their fifth house, and check > > > > whether > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > same > > > > > > > > > can cause the loss of child - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) Aries lagna, lagna lord Mars in Leo: Yes, Leo is a > > > sign > > > > > > > > signifying > > > > > > > > > less children, and Mars a malefic in it can indicate > > loss > > > > of > > > > > > > child > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > sure. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Taurus lagna, lagna lord Venus in Virgo: Virgo is > > the > > > > > > > > debilitation > > > > > > > > > sign for Venus. Also not that Venus owns the lordship > > of > > > > 6th > > > > > > > house > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > well. Thus for sure for Taurus lagna Venus in 5th can > > > > > indicate > > > > > > > loss > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > child for sure. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) Gemini lagna, lagna lord Me in Libra: Note that > > Venus > > > > the > > > > > > lord > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > Libra owns the 12th house (house indicating death) as > > > well. > > > > > > > > Possibly the > > > > > > > > > combination can indicate loss or death. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4) Cancer lagna, Moon in Scorpio: Scorpio is the > > > > debilitation > > > > > > > sign > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > Moon. Ofcourse the same can indicate the loss of > child. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5) Leo lagna, Sun in Sagittarius: Note that the lord > of > > > > > > > Sagittarius > > > > > > > > > Jupiter owns the 8th house (death) as well. Thus > > > certainly > > > > the > > > > > > > > > combination can indicate the loss or death of child. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6) Virgo lagna, Me in Capricorn: The lord of > Capricorn > > > > Saturn > > > > > > > owns > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > 6th house as well. Possibly the combination can > > indicate > > > > bad > > > > > > > results > > > > > > > > > such as loss of child - amended by the fact that both > > > > Mercury > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > Saturn > > > > > > > > > are imbecile planets. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 7) Libra lagna, Venus in Aquarius: Note that lagna > lord > > > > Venus > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > also > > > > > > > > > the 8th lord. Certainly 8th lord is a malefic, and a > > > > malefic > > > > > > > placed > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > 5th can indicate lose of child. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you continue this analysis, you could see that for > > > most > > > > of > > > > > > the > > > > > > > 12 > > > > > > > > > signs, lagna lord placed in 5th can indicate the loss > > of > > > > > child, > > > > > > > even > > > > > > > > > though the same does not match perfectly for Aquarius > > and > > > > > > Pisces > > > > > > > > Lagna. > > > > > > > > > Thus it becomes clear that Parasara was not making a > > > > > statement > > > > > > > > without > > > > > > > > > base or without understanding. His derivation sprung > > from > > > > the > > > > > > deep > > > > > > > > > understanding that `for all the 12 signs, lagna lord > in > > > 5th > > > > > is > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > favorably placed, and this can be crystallized into > the > > > > brief > > > > > > > > statement > > > > > > > > > - lagna lord in 5th can indicate bad results such as - > > > > loss > > > > > of > > > > > > > first > > > > > > > > > child and anger'. Then is it that Meenaraja was wrong > > and > > > > > > Parasara > > > > > > > > > was right? No, it is not so. Meenaraja was deriving a > > > > result > > > > > > > based > > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > > the prime condition – Lagna lord in 5th alone. For > this > > > > prime > > > > > > > > > combination Meenaraja's derivation is absolutely > right. > > > But > > > > > > > > > Parasara's amendment springs from his deep > > understanding > > > of > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > zodiac. He knew that the general statement regarding > > > lagna > > > > > lord > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > other > > > > > > > > > houses may not be completely true for lagna lord in > > 5th, > > > > due > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > essential mutually co-related nature of the signs > > itself. > > > > So > > > > > > his > > > > > > > > opinion > > > > > > > > > would be, `Yes, Meenaraja is right. But you know the > > > Signs > > > > in > > > > > > > > > Zodiac, they have some specific connection to death > as > > > far > > > > as > > > > > > 5th > > > > > > > > house > > > > > > > > > is concerned. So your general derivation as proposed > by > > > > > > Meenaraja > > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > not work in this case. Consider this special nature > of > > > 5th > > > > > from > > > > > > > all > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > signs and modify your derivation accordingly. The you > > > will > > > > > see > > > > > > > that, > > > > > > > > > lagna lord in 5th can signify many bad results such > as > > > loss > > > > > of > > > > > > > first > > > > > > > > > child and anger'. It must be this deeper > understanding > > > which > > > > > > > > > prompted Parasara to suggest such a result. Yes, > > > Meenaraja > > > > is > > > > > > > > right, but > > > > > > > > > Parasara is also not off the mark. Meenaraja is > > concerned > > > > > with > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > general logic of the derivation only, but Parasara > goes > > > > > deeper > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > general zodiacal context. Note it - possibly in other > > > > > > situations > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > well > > > > > > > > > the same could be the case - Parasara has a better > > > > > > understanding > > > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > > the zodiacal context, and may mix it with general > > result > > > > > > > > derivation. His > > > > > > > > > thought and understanding penetrates into deaths; and > > is > > > > more > > > > > > far > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > wide. He is not depended on mere logic alone - he is > > more > > > > > > > > practical. It > > > > > > > > > is because of this in-depth understanding; Parasara > is > > > > termed > > > > > a > > > > > > > > sage, > > > > > > > > > but Meenaraja a king, a scholar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But even this understanding of Parasara view does not > > > does > > > > > not > > > > > > > > allow me > > > > > > > > > to pardon him - because here to derive the result he > > > mixed > > > > > the > > > > > > > > methods > > > > > > > > > of Sign-House Base result derivation, while dealing > > with > > > > > House > > > > > > > Base > > > > > > > > > result derivation - causing confusion to the learner. > I > > > > would > > > > > > > > suggest > > > > > > > > > that, in this context, the beginners should stick to > > the > > > > > > cleaner > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > systematic approach proposed by Meenaraja, while > trying > > > to > > > > > > master > > > > > > > > House > > > > > > > > > Base result derivation technique. The deeper > > > possibilities > > > > and > > > > > > > > > modification to the suggested results should dealt > with > > > and > > > > > > > > understood, > > > > > > > > > while trying to learn Sign-House Base result > derivation > > > > > > technique. > > > > > > > > > The 5th house signifies things such as - children, > > > > > intelligence, > > > > > > > > > creativity, genius, stomach, belly, ministers, secret > > > hymns > > > > > > > recited > > > > > > > > etc. > > > > > > > > > Thus the placement of lagna lord in 5th generates > > special > > > > > > > > importance to > > > > > > > > > the derivations related to the same. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Extract from: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh/ > > > > > > > > La\ > > > > > > > > > gna%20lord%20in%20Various%20Houses.pdf > > > > > > > > > ============================================== > > > > > > > > > Love, > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2007 Report Share Posted September 27, 2007 More 10 - 12 years and then a new curve will begin.... regards, Lalit. , " Sreenadh " <sreesog wrote: > > Mmm....I know it takes time... > Take care.... > Love, > Sreenadh > , " litsol " <mlalit@> > wrote: > > > > Dear Srinadh, > > > > Leave it, I m not part of ur show, where u r the only script writer, > > director, actor, viewer and even the stage is your's. > > > > I had an impression that this is a open group where a collective > > learning may emerge to make astrology more advanced more effective > > but, I feel i was wrong in my understanding, you w'd never accept ur > > shortcomings and w'd never take inputs from members. so i drop it. > > > > u make ur rules for ur convenience sake, act on ur rules as per ur > > convenience and you teach rules to others as per ur conveniince and > > define liberty from rules as per ur convenience. > > > > when i saw ur post, instinctively, without thinking much about > > subsequent consequences, happen to respond to you, which will never > > be there, i m a I m a easy going man, open minded person. > > > > I have no objection, carry on ur show, i m silent. > > > > regards, > > Lalit. > > > > > > , " Sreenadh " > > <sreesog@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Lalit ji, > > > The questions in articles are - > > > * Guidance to think. > > > * They are part of the process of thinking > > > * They are not demanding, requesting and asking someone to come > > and > > > give a ready made answer, such as " Perhaps u have not checked > > malefic > > > influence on 5'th house with horoscopes... and I will teach you the > > > remedy, the correct results and the method to be followed " ; know > > that > > > it is to motivate thinking; it is to motivate more fuel to the fire > > > with in; to guide others and me to learn to think itself - > > > systematically; in the way astrology demands! Note that 7-fold > > method > > > is a " Thought Tool " , a methodology for thinking. With a peaceful > > mind > > > think about it - and you will see what I mean. > > > What the questions you present in your own writeups/articles - > > you > > > will what I mean. > > > ==> > > > > if ur post is only house specific why u raise such questions and > > > > then try to find answers, > > > <== > > > I hope the above section clarifies this. The post was 'house > > > specific' that too is right. > > > ==> > > > > u urself asked the question in ur post - " Why should lagna > > > > lord going to 5th make the native an angry and aggressive > > > > individual " and tried to understand the reason > > > <== > > > Yes, I did raise that question and tried to answer it - because > > that > > > was a result derived by Parasara and I was thinking about the logic > > > behind it; Certainly that is related to 'House Base' derivation, > > and > > > not related to anything else. > > > Did you tried to think and find an answer to that question? Did > > you > > > checked the same in some example horoscopes and found that it > > doesn't > > > work? > > > Now let us come to your comment on the same - > > > Comment -1 > > > ==> > > > > If u r doing a commentary on the ancient classics, ur approach is > > > > right and there is lot to learn from such writings, but as > > > > far as learning is concerned, more urge to study and dissect the > > > > obsecure cases is required. > > > <== > > > What do you mean by 'obscure cases'? Do you mean example > > horoscopes? > > > The do it yourself - and present the results! That is the way to > > go - > > > an a research approach, and we too would be benefited by that; go > > > ahead and do it! Note that the above statement by you lacks even > > the > > > basic understanding that " the article was dealing with House Base > > > result derivation, and that too about LL in 5th " ! > > > Comment -2 > > > ==> > > > > same way, 5'th has connection to 11'th house, the house of gains, > > > > this combination of lagna lord's placement in 5'th house > > > > makes a person too much ambitious, self cenetered, he is self > > > > promting so should be aggressive coz his rise is his main > > objective > > > > of the life. This is what i observed. > > > <== > > > Yah, that is good logic - and a good suggestion. But note the last > > > statement " This is what i observed " ! We all know that you started > > > learning astrology before 5 months only. Of course you are a > > smart > > > learner, and has good logic, (I appreciate that, and happy about > > it). > > > Considering the above facts, possibly if it was something like - > > " This > > > is a better logical derivation I feel " , it would have been more > > > pleasant. Even if you have " observed " such combinations - your > > > time span of 5 months is not even enough to complete the training > > > period and clear the testing phase! :=) > > > Lalit ji, don't take all these comments personally - I love you > > very > > > much, and know well that it is rare to find such a good potential. > > > But don't do the mistake becoming a teacher; don't do the mistake > > of > > > becoming a teacher - your experience and knowledge is not enough > > for > > > that; I have at least 8 years experience as a professional > > > astrologer, but still I am a learner and yet to become a teacher; I > > > don't think in near future it would be possible as well; thus the > > > fact is there are no teachers in this group; and never can be. > > > We are all fellow students here - even though the amount of > > > knowledge may vary a bit from individual to individual; that is not > > > much important. But learning to be a learner, and being a > > learner, > > > and accepting that i am a learner and that my knowledge is limited - > > > > > IS important. We simply don't have answers to everything - and > > never > > > can be. > > > Be with me brother and give a bit credit for being elder... > > > Love and Hugs, > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > , " Sreenadh " > > > <sreesog@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Lalit ji, > > > > Are you noticing that we are deviating from the subject? Present > > > > your views on Lagna lord in 5th in a well written way (In > > similar > > > > discussions - Baquya ji does it - he is good; Srinivas ji does > > it; > > > > Sunil Does it; RK ji does it; similarly many more members) and I > > > will > > > > love to see the same - whether it be from experience or from > > Logic. > > > > Second, I am NOT teaching anybody - but learning and presenting > > > > systematically - of course my experience as an astrologer, and of > > > the > > > > books would be useful in that effort. But never expect or feel > > that > > > I > > > > am teaching - I am NOT. Everybody learns by themselves. Everybody > > > > should try to present there sincere " understanding " " about the > > > > subject under discussion " with clarity. There is NO Teacher- > > > Learner, > > > > Master-Disciple here; But only learners - all members present in > > > this > > > > group are humble learners of the astrological wisdom presented by > > > > sages. I am a learner a student of them, and NOT a teacher to > > > anyone. > > > > Please understand this. > > > > Love, > > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > > > , " litsol " > > > > <mlalit@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Srinadh, > > > > > > > > > > Do u mean, If u r not clear somewhere or u r missing something > > > and > > > > > someone points out to the mising point, he himself lacks the > > > > > understanding, very good approach, sorry to interrupt this > > time, > > > > now > > > > > onwards will never try to correct you. > > > > > > > > > > However,u urself asked the question in ur post - " Why should > > > lagna > > > > > lord going to 5th make the native an angry and aggressive > > > > > individual " and tried to understand the reason, if ur post is > > > only > > > > > house specific why u raise such questions and then try to find > > > > > answers, simply i thuoght to correct ur effort with my > > > > understanding > > > > > but ur attitude is very different,So much inclination in > > teaching > > > > is > > > > > affecting ur's learning only. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > Lalit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " Sreenadh " > > > > > <sreesog@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lalit ji, > > > > > > Malefic effect in 5th causing many troubles is a known fact > > to > > > > all > > > > > > astrologers - no explanation is needed on the same. Knowing > > > what > > > > > > those troubles are, needs considering a lot of other > > > parameters. > > > > > > Deriving the details - which uses several methodologies such > > as > > > > > > Bhavat Bhava Chinta, Karkat Bhava chinta, considering other > > > > > > combinations - know that there is a big distance to go and it > > > is > > > > > not > > > > > > that simple. > > > > > > What we are doing here is not trying to reach some > > inflexible > > > > > > conclusion; or to analyze someone's horoscope; but to see to > > > what > > > > > > extend the slokas on 'House Base' derivation technique can > > > point > > > > > to. > > > > > > Try to understand things in the context they are. > > > > > > When you are trying your own bit of logic in something - > > > present > > > > > it > > > > > > that way; Instead of saying this is right or that is wrong, > > or > > > > > > somewhere else is the crux. Present - as per your logic you > > > think > > > > > it > > > > > > could be so and so. (Don't bring in I have seen such and such > > > in > > > > > some > > > > > > horoscope and so let us discuss that horoscope strategy as > > > well - > > > > > > that is not the way. If the same combination is present in > > some > > > > > known > > > > > > horoscope - the combination alone can be considered for > > > > > verification, > > > > > > and other feature or details of that horoscope should be > > > > neglected. > > > > > > We should stick to the context and the method of study). Loss > > > can > > > > > > mean many things - > > > > > > * It could be abortion > > > > > > * It could untimely death of son at a later age (as in the > > > case > > > > of > > > > > > Indira Gandhi) > > > > > > * It could be a missing son Or there could be many other > > > > > > possibilities as well. > > > > > > Neither the sloka nor we are going in to that details - > > > instead > > > > > what > > > > > > we are doing is 'Trying to learn the logical background and > > > > > concepts > > > > > > used in House Base derivation by the sages; and thus trying > > to > > > > > master > > > > > > that technique' - know this well. > > > > > > ==> > > > > > > > there are chances for the entire hard work to be confined > > to > > > > mere > > > > > > > translation of some shlokas, which i think, is certainly > > not > > > > the > > > > > > > objective. > > > > > > <== > > > > > > Clearly the above words come from lack of understanding of > > > > > objective > > > > > > and strategy, of this group. Please check - > > > > > > * The previous mails on the same thread > > > > > > * The files in the files folder dealing with similar things > > > > (i.e. > > > > > > Articles related to 7-fold result derivation technique of > > > > astrology) > > > > > > * Thus instead of starting afresh were you land yourself in > > > the > > > > > > forum, create a background to deal with the subject in hand, > > > > > > systematically. > > > > > > Note: The document regarding " Lagna lord in various houses > > was > > > > > there > > > > > > in file section for many days, and mails about file uploading > > > > goes > > > > > to > > > > > > every member, the main thread of discussion is on the same; > > but > > > > > alas! > > > > > > the never read or refer to such files and instead depend on > > the > > > > > > posted mails alone! No serious learner who approach astrology > > > > > > shouldn't follow such a method. He should download and study > > > them > > > > > > before putting in his bit - and that SHOULD BE a well thought > > > out > > > > > > one - depicting his sincerity and earnest effort to > > understand > > > > and > > > > > > learn the path shown by the sages " . Whether such a view > > matches > > > > > with > > > > > > mine or not is irrelevant. But the contribution should be > > > > valuable - > > > > > > > > > > > coming out from research, experience and effort. > > > > > > Hope the confusion is clarified. > > > > > > Love and Hugs, > > > > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > > > > > > > , " litsol " > > > > > > <mlalit@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Srinadh, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pls. tell where i m wrong in finding such shortcomings in > > > what > > > > u > > > > > > > tried to derive and explain after the translation, in fact, > > i > > > > > saw, > > > > > > u > > > > > > > urself tried to understand what is missing, struggled a > > lot, > > > > but > > > > > > just > > > > > > > stopped before touching the crux, a gap remained is to > > cover > > > > up. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I suggested something for the betterment only. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > loss doesn't mean death, it may be girl child, it may be > > > > hopeless > > > > > > > child, it may be a child with poor health, we need to be > > more > > > > > > specific > > > > > > > while deriving the results and explaining them to group. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > be admissive and keep a holistic approach so that a right > > > > > learning > > > > > > > approach could be developed having inputs from every one, > > > > > > otherwise, > > > > > > > there are chances for the entire hardwork to be confined to > > > > mere > > > > > > > translation of some shlokas, which i think, is certainly > > not > > > > the > > > > > > > objective. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if u mind and dont consider what u r told, i have no > > business > > > > to > > > > > > > interrupt you, u can move on ur ways. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > Lalit. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In , " Sreenadh " > > > > > > > <sreesog@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lalit ji, > > > > > > > > Did you ever been an astrologer? I think not. Just > > simply > > > > > learn! > > > > > > > > Love, > > > > > > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In , " litsol " > > > > > > > > <mlalit@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Srinadh, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Perhapse u have not checked malific influence on 5'th > > > house > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > horoscopes,However, i appreciate ur efforts to > > understand > > > > the > > > > > > > > > consequences of 5'th house as well as lagna lord's > > > > placement > > > > > in > > > > > > > > 5'th > > > > > > > > > house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A malific influence in 5'th does not always lead to > > loss > > > of > > > > > the > > > > > > > > first > > > > > > > > > child, this placement sometimes give girl child, death > > of > > > > > child > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > an > > > > > > > > > extreme result which happens in cases of extreme > > > > malificance. > > > > > I > > > > > > > > > remember once u said during discussion of BB that 4'th > > > > house > > > > > > may > > > > > > > > > denote loss of child, if 4'th there are other house as > > > well > > > > > as > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > reference to 5'th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If u r doing a commentary on the ancient classics, ur > > > > > approach > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > right and there is lot to learn from such writings, but > > > as > > > > > far > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > learning is concerned, more urge to study and dissect > > the > > > > > > > obsecure > > > > > > > > > cases is required. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > same way, 5'th has connection to 11'th house, the house > > > of > > > > > > gains, > > > > > > > > > this combination of lagna lord's placement in 5'th > > house > > > > > makes > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > person too much ambitious, self cenetered, he is self > > > > > promting > > > > > > so > > > > > > > > > should be aggressive coz his rise is his main objective > > > of > > > > > the > > > > > > > life. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is what i observed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > > Lalit. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > > , " Sreenadh " > > > > > > > > > <sreesog@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The results for Lagna lord in 5th house is > > discussed > > > > > below. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ============================================== > > > > > > > > > > Lagna lord in 5th House > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be proud an > > > > > > > individual > > > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > > much self-respect and reputation and a bit angry but > > > > > > righteous > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > kind. > > > > > > > > > > He will have children. He may have moderate well- > > being > > > > from > > > > > > > > > children and > > > > > > > > > > may lose his first child as well, especially if there > > > is > > > > > some > > > > > > > > > malefic > > > > > > > > > > influence on 5th house. He would be dear to the > > people > > > > with > > > > > > > power > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > authority. He will have good authority or rulership > > and > > > > > will > > > > > > > > enjoy a > > > > > > > > > > good eventful and enjoyable life. Bestowed with good > > > > > > qualities, > > > > > > > > he > > > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > do many good deeds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be angry; > > > will > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > moderate > > > > > > > > > > well-being from children. The native will lose his > > > first > > > > > > child. > > > > > > > > He > > > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > > be a proud individual with much self-respect and > > > > > reputation. > > > > > > He > > > > > > > > > would be > > > > > > > > > > dear to the king. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Parasara Hora > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why should lagna lord going to 5th make the native an > > > > angry > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > aggressive individual? One of the logic behind could > > > be - > > > > > 5th > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > 3rd > > > > > > > > > > from 3rd house; and Upachaya (increase) stana of 3rd > > > > house. > > > > > > 3rd > > > > > > > > > house > > > > > > > > > > signify anger and possibly that is why lagna lord in > > > 5th > > > > > > > > increases > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > anger and agitation of the native. But also not that > > > 5th > > > > is > > > > > > 2nd > > > > > > > > > house > > > > > > > > > > from 4th (simple and humble mind) making the native a > > > > > > straight > > > > > > > > > forward > > > > > > > > > > individual. It is also mentioned in the sloka that > > the > > > > > native > > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > lose > > > > > > > > > > his first child - why? The natural expectation would > > be > > > > > that > > > > > > > > lagna > > > > > > > > > lord > > > > > > > > > > in 5th should bestow good results for 5th, thus > > > providing > > > > > > > > children > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > happiness from children to the native. Of course if > > > lagna > > > > > > lord > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > in 5th > > > > > > > > > > is afflicted by some malefic, then it would have > > double > > > > > > impact, > > > > > > > > > since > > > > > > > > > > the same would affect both the 5th house and the > > lagna > > > > lord > > > > > > > > > amplifying > > > > > > > > > > the possibility for bad result. Since 5th could > > signify > > > > the > > > > > > > first > > > > > > > > > child > > > > > > > > > > the bad result could be attributed to the first child > > > as > > > > > > well. > > > > > > > > > Actually > > > > > > > > > > this is what we see mentioned in Meenaraja hora. But > > > > > Parasara > > > > > > > > > provides > > > > > > > > > > no such clue about any required malefic influence in > > > 5th > > > > > > house! > > > > > > > > We > > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > wonder stuck by this derivation, and we fail to > > imagine > > > > any > > > > > > > solid > > > > > > > > > reason > > > > > > > > > > behind such a derivation in the absence of any > > malefic > > > > > > > influence > > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > > 5th > > > > > > > > > > house. Another version of the same sloka is > > available, > > > > > which > > > > > > > also > > > > > > > > > > provides similar results. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be proud; > > > will > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > moderate > > > > > > > > > > well-being from children. He will lose his first > > child. > > > > He > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > angry and will have special privileges in the king's > > > > place. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Parasara Hora > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Apart from minor differences this sloka gives almost > > > same > > > > > > > results > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > above. It seems that, the loss of first child should > > be > > > > > > > predicted > > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > if there is a malefic influence in 5th house, since > > the > > > > > other > > > > > > > > > available > > > > > > > > > > slokas give good results concerning children if lagna > > > > lord > > > > > is > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > 5th > > > > > > > > > > house. [Note that similar to in this sloka Parasara > > > will > > > > > not > > > > > > > > mention > > > > > > > > > > `if the lagna lord is malefic and placed in x house' > > in > > > > many > > > > > > > > > > other slokas as well. We will encounter this writing > > > > style > > > > > > > > related > > > > > > > > > issue > > > > > > > > > > in many other instances as well] Let us see what > > > > Meenaraja > > > > > > has > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > say. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th house, the native will have > > > > > children, > > > > > > > > > righteous > > > > > > > > > > and kind. He will have good authority or rulership > > and > > > > will > > > > > > > enjoy > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > good > > > > > > > > > > eventful and enjoyable life. Bestowed with good > > > > qualities, > > > > > he > > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > do > > > > > > > > > > many good deeds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Meenaraja Hora > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In one printed version of Meenaraja Hora the word > > > Suseela > > > > > is > > > > > > > > quoted > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > Sugeeta (Good in singing). Select the proper word > > based > > > > on > > > > > > > actual > > > > > > > > > > experience observed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Note that as per Meenaraja lagna lord in 5th > > `provides > > > > > > children' > > > > > > > > > > and does not `destroy children'. Even though Parasara > > > > only > > > > > > says > > > > > > > > > > that `lose of first child could happen', he too does > > > not > > > > > say > > > > > > > > > > that `the native will not have children'. If we > > combine > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > statements of both Parasara and Meenaraja the only > > > > > conclusion > > > > > > > we > > > > > > > > > could > > > > > > > > > > reach is `The native will have children, but he may > > > loss > > > > > his > > > > > > > first > > > > > > > > > > child as well'. But it should be noted that the loss > > of > > > > > first > > > > > > > > child > > > > > > > > > > does not seems to be logically supported in the > > absence > > > > of > > > > > > > malefic > > > > > > > > > > influence on 5th house - this was my initial > > inference. > > > > (An > > > > > > > > > amendment is > > > > > > > > > > proposed later) The sloka provided by Hora Pradeepam > > is > > > > > > almost > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > same > > > > > > > > > > as that of Meenaraja. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th house, the native will have > > > > > children, > > > > > > > > > righteous > > > > > > > > > > and kind. He will have good authority or rulership > > and > > > > will > > > > > > > enjoy > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > good > > > > > > > > > > eventful and happy life. Bestowed with good > > qualities, > > > he > > > > > > will > > > > > > > do > > > > > > > > > many > > > > > > > > > > good deeds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Hora Pradeepam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parasara says that Lagna lord in 5th would make the > > > > native > > > > > > > angry - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > why? > > > > > > > > > > Clearly any direct logic is not visible. Sun is the > > > > natural > > > > > > > > > significator > > > > > > > > > > of Lagna. If we are considering lagna lord in 5th as > > > > > similar > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > sun > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > 5th, then the above derivation would be justified and > > > > > > possibly > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > lose > > > > > > > > > > of first child as well. But is it a correct approach? > > I > > > > am > > > > > > > > doubtful. > > > > > > > > > > Only verifying the actual results from charts with > > > > similar > > > > > > > > > combination > > > > > > > > > > can shed some light on this issue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rule 5: Lagna lord in any house should be treated > > > similar > > > > > to > > > > > > > Sun > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > house, since Sun is the natural significator of Lagna. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am a bit doubtful about the validity of the above > > > rule. > > > > > If > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > supported by actual results it is better to ignore > > the > > > > > above > > > > > > > > rule. > > > > > > > > > The > > > > > > > > > > logic supplied till now does not seem to be capable > > > > enough > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > satisfactorily explain the strong results proposed by > > > > > > Parasara > > > > > > > > such > > > > > > > > > as - > > > > > > > > > > Lagna lord in 5th causing the loss of first child; it > > > > will > > > > > > also > > > > > > > > > make the > > > > > > > > > > native an angry individual. There should be some > > other > > > > > logic > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > well. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On retrospect we feel that - Parasara will not say > > > > > something > > > > > > > > > without a > > > > > > > > > > sold reason. Why should he bring planets base result > > > (e.g. > > > > > > > > > > benefic/malefic) into it, when he was dealing with > > > House > > > > > base > > > > > > > > > > prediction? That is not logical. There could be some > > > > other > > > > > in- > > > > > > > > depth > > > > > > > > > > reason. Yes, you are right - there is. Let us analyze > > > all > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > possible > > > > > > > > > > houses and lagna lord in their fifth house, and check > > > > > whether > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > same > > > > > > > > > > can cause the loss of child - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) Aries lagna, lagna lord Mars in Leo: Yes, Leo is a > > > > sign > > > > > > > > > signifying > > > > > > > > > > less children, and Mars a malefic in it can indicate > > > loss > > > > > of > > > > > > > > child > > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > sure. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Taurus lagna, lagna lord Venus in Virgo: Virgo is > > > the > > > > > > > > > debilitation > > > > > > > > > > sign for Venus. Also not that Venus owns the lordship > > > of > > > > > 6th > > > > > > > > house > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > well. Thus for sure for Taurus lagna Venus in 5th can > > > > > > indicate > > > > > > > > loss > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > child for sure. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) Gemini lagna, lagna lord Me in Libra: Note that > > > Venus > > > > > the > > > > > > > lord > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > Libra owns the 12th house (house indicating death) as > > > > well. > > > > > > > > > Possibly the > > > > > > > > > > combination can indicate loss or death. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4) Cancer lagna, Moon in Scorpio: Scorpio is the > > > > > debilitation > > > > > > > > sign > > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > Moon. Ofcourse the same can indicate the loss of > > child. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5) Leo lagna, Sun in Sagittarius: Note that the lord > > of > > > > > > > > Sagittarius > > > > > > > > > > Jupiter owns the 8th house (death) as well. Thus > > > > certainly > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > combination can indicate the loss or death of child. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6) Virgo lagna, Me in Capricorn: The lord of > > Capricorn > > > > > Saturn > > > > > > > > owns > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > 6th house as well. Possibly the combination can > > > indicate > > > > > bad > > > > > > > > results > > > > > > > > > > such as loss of child - amended by the fact that both > > > > > Mercury > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > Saturn > > > > > > > > > > are imbecile planets. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 7) Libra lagna, Venus in Aquarius: Note that lagna > > lord > > > > > Venus > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > also > > > > > > > > > > the 8th lord. Certainly 8th lord is a malefic, and a > > > > > malefic > > > > > > > > placed > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > 5th can indicate lose of child. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you continue this analysis, you could see that for > > > > most > > > > > of > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > 12 > > > > > > > > > > signs, lagna lord placed in 5th can indicate the loss > > > of > > > > > > child, > > > > > > > > even > > > > > > > > > > though the same does not match perfectly for Aquarius > > > and > > > > > > > Pisces > > > > > > > > > Lagna. > > > > > > > > > > Thus it becomes clear that Parasara was not making a > > > > > > statement > > > > > > > > > without > > > > > > > > > > base or without understanding. His derivation sprung > > > from > > > > > the > > > > > > > deep > > > > > > > > > > understanding that `for all the 12 signs, lagna lord > > in > > > > 5th > > > > > > is > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > favorably placed, and this can be crystallized into > > the > > > > > brief > > > > > > > > > statement > > > > > > > > > > - lagna lord in 5th can indicate bad results such as - > > > > > > loss > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > first > > > > > > > > > > child and anger'. Then is it that Meenaraja was wrong > > > and > > > > > > > Parasara > > > > > > > > > > was right? No, it is not so. Meenaraja was deriving a > > > > > result > > > > > > > > based > > > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > > > the prime condition – Lagna lord in 5th alone. For > > this > > > > > prime > > > > > > > > > > combination Meenaraja's derivation is absolutely > > right. > > > > But > > > > > > > > > > Parasara's amendment springs from his deep > > > understanding > > > > of > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > zodiac. He knew that the general statement regarding > > > > lagna > > > > > > lord > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > other > > > > > > > > > > houses may not be completely true for lagna lord in > > > 5th, > > > > > due > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > essential mutually co-related nature of the signs > > > itself. > > > > > So > > > > > > > his > > > > > > > > > opinion > > > > > > > > > > would be, `Yes, Meenaraja is right. But you know the > > > > Signs > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > Zodiac, they have some specific connection to death > > as > > > > far > > > > > as > > > > > > > 5th > > > > > > > > > house > > > > > > > > > > is concerned. So your general derivation as proposed > > by > > > > > > > Meenaraja > > > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > not work in this case. Consider this special nature > > of > > > > 5th > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > all > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > signs and modify your derivation accordingly. The you > > > > will > > > > > > see > > > > > > > > that, > > > > > > > > > > lagna lord in 5th can signify many bad results such > > as > > > > loss > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > first > > > > > > > > > > child and anger'. It must be this deeper > > understanding > > > > which > > > > > > > > > > prompted Parasara to suggest such a result. Yes, > > > > Meenaraja > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > right, but > > > > > > > > > > Parasara is also not off the mark. Meenaraja is > > > concerned > > > > > > with > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > general logic of the derivation only, but Parasara > > goes > > > > > > deeper > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > general zodiacal context. Note it - possibly in other > > > > > > > situations > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > well > > > > > > > > > > the same could be the case - Parasara has a better > > > > > > > understanding > > > > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > > > the zodiacal context, and may mix it with general > > > result > > > > > > > > > derivation. His > > > > > > > > > > thought and understanding penetrates into deaths; and > > > is > > > > > more > > > > > > > far > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > wide. He is not depended on mere logic alone - he is > > > more > > > > > > > > > practical. It > > > > > > > > > > is because of this in-depth understanding; Parasara > > is > > > > > termed > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > sage, > > > > > > > > > > but Meenaraja a king, a scholar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But even this understanding of Parasara view does not > > > > does > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > allow me > > > > > > > > > > to pardon him - because here to derive the result he > > > > mixed > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > methods > > > > > > > > > > of Sign-House Base result derivation, while dealing > > > with > > > > > > House > > > > > > > > Base > > > > > > > > > > result derivation - causing confusion to the learner. > > I > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > suggest > > > > > > > > > > that, in this context, the beginners should stick to > > > the > > > > > > > cleaner > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > systematic approach proposed by Meenaraja, while > > trying > > > > to > > > > > > > master > > > > > > > > > House > > > > > > > > > > Base result derivation technique. The deeper > > > > possibilities > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > modification to the suggested results should dealt > > with > > > > and > > > > > > > > > understood, > > > > > > > > > > while trying to learn Sign-House Base result > > derivation > > > > > > > technique. > > > > > > > > > > The 5th house signifies things such as - children, > > > > > > intelligence, > > > > > > > > > > creativity, genius, stomach, belly, ministers, secret > > > > hymns > > > > > > > > recited > > > > > > > > > etc. > > > > > > > > > > Thus the placement of lagna lord in 5th generates > > > special > > > > > > > > > importance to > > > > > > > > > > the derivations related to the same. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Extract from: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh/ > > > > > > > > > La\ > > > > > > > > > > gna%20lord%20in%20Various%20Houses.pdf > > > > > > > > > > ============================================== > > > > > > > > > > Love, > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2007 Report Share Posted September 27, 2007 > Dear Lalit ji, > " loss doesn't mean death, it may be girl child, it may be hopeless > child, it may be a child with poor health, " Please kindly note that the above statement by you is absurd and insulting. Do you consider a girl born is as similar as a hopeless child? Or similar to a child with poor health? I am sure this has nothing to do with gender but may be I agree with your other suggestions. This is the 21st century and gone are the days of the male dominant society. Don't you have a mother, a sister, a wife or a daughter? Do you think your mother was born to this world as a result of a malefic influence on the lagna lord placed in the 5H of her mother's horoscope? I am sorry to write like this...but never ever forget that male and female hold equal status in this world. blessings Renu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2007 Report Share Posted September 27, 2007 These types of yogas do indicate death, unless there are arishta Bhanga yogas that prevent the death, in which case there are still health considerations or stress during birth to the child and or mother, but only when there are arishta bhanga yogas, otherwise it is death, and certainly no cause for a girl! You will see these yogas in charts of babies born with emergency c-section for instance. Jai Rama, Ernst On Behalf Of renunw Thursday, September 27, 2007 11:19 AM Re: Lagna lord in 5th House > Dear Lalit ji, > " loss doesn't mean death, it may be girl child, it may be hopeless > child, it may be a child with poor health, " Please kindly note that the above statement by you is absurd and insulting. Do you consider a girl born is as similar as a hopeless child? Or similar to a child with poor health? I am sure this has nothing to do with gender but may be I agree with your other suggestions. This is the 21st century and gone are the days of the male dominant society. Don't you have a mother, a sister, a wife or a daughter? Do you think your mother was born to this world as a result of a malefic influence on the lagna lord placed in the 5H of her mother's horoscope? I am sorry to write like this...but never ever forget that male and female hold equal status in this world. blessings Renu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2007 Report Share Posted September 27, 2007 Dear Lalit and Srinadh ji, As in Parasar Hora stated: If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be angry; will have moderate well-being from children. The native will lose his first child. He would be a proud individual with much self-respect and reputation. He would be dear to the king. Mine lagna lord is Mars,which is placed in 5th house in my lagna chart.When my wife was in 3rd month of pregnancy,she had a miss carriage in 1993,it was our first baby,after that we have four children,quite healthy. Regds-javed litsol <mlalit wrote: Dear Srinadh,Leave it, I m not part of ur show, where u r the only script writer, director, actor, viewer and even the stage is your's.I had an impression that this is a open group where a collective learning may emerge to make astrology more advanced more effective but, I feel i was wrong in my understanding, you w'd never accept ur shortcomings and w'd never take inputs from members. so i drop it.u make ur rules for ur convenience sake, act on ur rules as per ur convenience and you teach rules to others as per ur conveniince and define liberty from rules as per ur convenience.when i saw ur post, instinctively, without thinking much about subsequent consequences, happen to respond to you, which will never be there, i m a I m a easy going man, open minded person.I have no objection, carry on ur show, i m silent.regards,Lalit. , "Sreenadh" <sreesog wrote:>> Dear Lalit ji,> The questions in articles are -> * Guidance to think.> * They are part of the process of thinking > * They are not demanding, requesting and asking someone to come and > give a ready made answer, such as "Perhaps u have not checked malefic > influence on 5'th house with horoscopes... and I will teach you the > remedy, the correct results and the method to be followed"; know that > it is to motivate thinking; it is to motivate more fuel to the fire > with in; to guide others and me to learn to think itself - > systematically; in the way astrology demands! Note that 7-fold method > is a "Thought Tool", a methodology for thinking. With a peaceful mind > think about it - and you will see what I mean. > What the questions you present in your own writeups/articles - you > will what I mean.> ==>> > if ur post is only house specific why u raise such questions and > > then try to find answers, > <==> I hope the above section clarifies this. The post was 'house > specific' that too is right.> ==>> > u urself asked the question in ur post - "Why should lagna > > lord going to 5th make the native an angry and aggressive > > individual" and tried to understand the reason> <== > Yes, I did raise that question and tried to answer it - because that > was a result derived by Parasara and I was thinking about the logic > behind it; Certainly that is related to 'House Base' derivation, and > not related to anything else. > Did you tried to think and find an answer to that question? Did you > checked the same in some example horoscopes and found that it doesn't > work? > Now let us come to your comment on the same -> Comment -1> ==>> > If u r doing a commentary on the ancient classics, ur approach is > > right and there is lot to learn from such writings, but as > > far as learning is concerned, more urge to study and dissect the > > obsecure cases is required.> <==> What do you mean by 'obscure cases'? Do you mean example horoscopes? > The do it yourself - and present the results! That is the way to go - > an a research approach, and we too would be benefited by that; go > ahead and do it! Note that the above statement by you lacks even the > basic understanding that "the article was dealing with House Base > result derivation, and that too about LL in 5th"! > Comment -2> ==>> > same way, 5'th has connection to 11'th house, the house of gains, > > this combination of lagna lord's placement in 5'th house > > makes a person too much ambitious, self cenetered, he is self > > promting so should be aggressive coz his rise is his main objective > > of the life. This is what i observed.> <==> Yah, that is good logic - and a good suggestion. But note the last > statement "This is what i observed"! We all know that you started > learning astrology before 5 months only. Of course you are a smart > learner, and has good logic, (I appreciate that, and happy about it). > Considering the above facts, possibly if it was something like -"This > is a better logical derivation I feel", it would have been more > pleasant. Even if you have "observed" such combinations - your > time span of 5 months is not even enough to complete the training > period and clear the testing phase! :=)> Lalit ji, don't take all these comments personally - I love you very > much, and know well that it is rare to find such a good potential. > But don't do the mistake becoming a teacher; don't do the mistake of > becoming a teacher - your experience and knowledge is not enough for > that; I have at least 8 years experience as a professional > astrologer, but still I am a learner and yet to become a teacher; I > don't think in near future it would be possible as well; thus the > fact is there are no teachers in this group; and never can be. > We are all fellow students here - even though the amount of > knowledge may vary a bit from individual to individual; that is not > much important. But learning to be a learner, and being a learner, > and accepting that i am a learner and that my knowledge is limited -> IS important. We simply don't have answers to everything - and never > can be. > Be with me brother and give a bit credit for being elder... > Love and Hugs,> Sreenadh> > , "Sreenadh" > <sreesog@> wrote:> >> > Dear Lalit ji,> > Are you noticing that we are deviating from the subject? Present > > your views on Lagna lord in 5th in a well written way (In similar > > discussions - Baquya ji does it - he is good; Srinivas ji does it; > > Sunil Does it; RK ji does it; similarly many more members) and I > will > > love to see the same - whether it be from experience or from Logic. > > Second, I am NOT teaching anybody - but learning and presenting > > systematically - of course my experience as an astrologer, and of > the > > books would be useful in that effort. But never expect or feel that > I > > am teaching - I am NOT. Everybody learns by themselves. Everybody > > should try to present there sincere "understandingabout the > > subject under discussion" with clarity. There is NO Teacher-> Learner, > > Master-Disciple here; But only learners - all members present in > this > > group are humble learners of the astrological wisdom presented by > > sages. I am a learner a student of them, and NOT a teacher to > anyone. > > Please understand this.> > Love,> > Sreenadh> > > > , "litsol" > > <mlalit@> wrote:> > >> > > Dear Srinadh,> > > > > > Do u mean, If u r not clear somewhere or u r missing something > and > > > someone points out to the mising point, he himself lacks the > > > understanding, very good approach, sorry to interrupt this time, > > now > > > onwards will never try to correct you. > > > > > > However,u urself asked the question in ur post - "Why should > lagna > > > lord going to 5th make the native an angry and aggressive > > > individual" and tried to understand the reason, if ur post is > only > > > house specific why u raise such questions and then try to find > > > answers, simply i thuoght to correct ur effort with my > > understanding > > > but ur attitude is very different,So much inclination in teaching > > is > > > affecting ur's learning only.> > > > > > > > > regards,> > > Lalit> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Sreenadh" > > > <sreesog@> wrote:> > > >> > > > Dear Lalit ji,> > > > Malefic effect in 5th causing many troubles is a known fact to > > all > > > > astrologers - no explanation is needed on the same. Knowing > what > > > > those troubles are, needs considering a lot of other > parameters. > > > > Deriving the details - which uses several methodologies such as > > > > Bhavat Bhava Chinta, Karkat Bhava chinta, considering other > > > > combinations - know that there is a big distance to go and it > is > > > not > > > > that simple. > > > > What we are doing here is not trying to reach some inflexible > > > > conclusion; or to analyze someone's horoscope; but to see to > what > > > > extend the slokas on 'House Base' derivation technique can > point > > > to. > > > > Try to understand things in the context they are. > > > > When you are trying your own bit of logic in something - > present > > > it > > > > that way; Instead of saying this is right or that is wrong, or > > > > somewhere else is the crux. Present - as per your logic you > think > > > it > > > > could be so and so. (Don't bring in I have seen such and such > in > > > some > > > > horoscope and so let us discuss that horoscope strategy as > well - > > > > that is not the way. If the same combination is present in some > > > known > > > > horoscope - the combination alone can be considered for > > > verification, > > > > and other feature or details of that horoscope should be > > neglected. > > > > We should stick to the context and the method of study). Loss > can > > > > mean many things - > > > > * It could be abortion> > > > * It could untimely death of son at a later age (as in the > case > > of > > > > Indira Gandhi)> > > > * It could be a missing son Or there could be many other > > > > possibilities as well.> > > > Neither the sloka nor we are going in to that details - > instead > > > what > > > > we are doing is 'Trying to learn the logical background and > > > concepts > > > > used in House Base derivation by the sages; and thus trying to > > > master > > > > that technique' - know this well. > > > > ==>> > > > > there are chances for the entire hard work to be confined to > > mere > > > > > translation of some shlokas, which i think, is certainly not > > the > > > > > objective.> > > > <== > > > > Clearly the above words come from lack of understanding of > > > objective > > > > and strategy, of this group. Please check -> > > > * The previous mails on the same thread> > > > * The files in the files folder dealing with similar things > > (i.e. > > > > Articles related to 7-fold result derivation technique of > > astrology)> > > > * Thus instead of starting afresh were you land yourself in > the > > > > forum, create a background to deal with the subject in hand, > > > > systematically.> > > > Note: The document regarding "Lagna lord in various houses was > > > there > > > > in file section for many days, and mails about file uploading > > goes > > > to > > > > every member, the main thread of discussion is on the same; but > > > alas! > > > > the never read or refer to such files and instead depend on the > > > > posted mails alone! No serious learner who approach astrology > > > > shouldn't follow such a method. He should download and study > them > > > > before putting in his bit - and that SHOULD BE a well thought > out > > > > one - depicting his sincerity and earnest effort to understand > > and > > > > learn the path shown by the sages". Whether such a view matches > > > with > > > > mine or not is irrelevant. But the contribution should be > > valuable -> > > > > > > coming out from research, experience and effort.> > > > Hope the confusion is clarified.> > > > Love and Hugs,> > > > Sreenadh> > > > > > > > , "litsol" > > > > <mlalit@> wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Dear Srinadh,> > > > > > > > > > Pls. tell where i m wrong in finding such shortcomings in > what > > u > > > > > tried to derive and explain after the translation, in fact, i > > > saw, > > > > u > > > > > urself tried to understand what is missing, struggled a lot, > > but > > > > just > > > > > stopped before touching the crux, a gap remained is to cover > > up. > > > > > > > > > > I suggested something for the betterment only.> > > > > > > > > > loss doesn't mean death, it may be girl child, it may be > > hopeless > > > > > child, it may be a child with poor health, we need to be more > > > > specific> > > > > while deriving the results and explaining them to group.> > > > > > > > > > be admissive and keep a holistic approach so that a right > > > learning > > > > > approach could be developed having inputs from every one, > > > > otherwise, > > > > > there are chances for the entire hardwork to be confined to > > mere > > > > > translation of some shlokas, which i think, is certainly not > > the > > > > > objective.> > > > > > > > > > if u mind and dont consider what u r told, i have no business > > to > > > > > interrupt you, u can move on ur ways.> > > > > > > > > > regards,> > > > > Lalit.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Sreenadh" > > > > > <sreesog@> wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > Dear Lalit ji,> > > > > > Did you ever been an astrologer? I think not. Just simply > > > learn!> > > > > > Love,> > > > > > Sreenadh> > > > > > > > > > > > , "litsol" > > > > > > <mlalit@> wrote:> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Dear Srinadh,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Perhapse u have not checked malific influence on 5'th > house > > > > with > > > > > > > horoscopes,However, i appreciate ur efforts to understand > > the > > > > > > > consequences of 5'th house as well as lagna lord's > > placement > > > in > > > > > > 5'th > > > > > > > house.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > A malific influence in 5'th does not always lead to loss > of > > > the > > > > > > first > > > > > > > child, this placement sometimes give girl child, death of > > > child > > > > > is > > > > > > an > > > > > > > extreme result which happens in cases of extreme > > malificance. > > > I > > > > > > > remember once u said during discussion of BB that 4'th > > house > > > > may > > > > > > > denote loss of child, if 4'th there are other house as > well > > > as > > > > > with > > > > > > > reference to 5'th house.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > If u r doing a commentary on the ancient classics, ur > > > approach > > > > is > > > > > > > right and there is lot to learn from such writings, but > as > > > far > > > > as > > > > > > > learning is concerned, more urge to study and dissect the > > > > > obsecure > > > > > > > cases is required.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > same way, 5'th has connection to 11'th house, the house > of > > > > gains, > > > > > > > this combination of lagna lord's placement in 5'th house > > > makes > > > > a > > > > > > > person too much ambitious, self cenetered, he is self > > > promting > > > > so > > > > > > > should be aggressive coz his rise is his main objective > of > > > the > > > > > life.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is what i observed.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards,> > > > > > > Lalit.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Sreenadh" > > > > > > > <sreesog@> wrote:> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear All,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The results for Lagna lord in 5th house is discussed > > > below.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==============================================> > > > > > > > Lagna lord in 5th House> > > > > > > > -----------------------------> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be proud an > > > > > individual > > > > > > > with> > > > > > > > much self-respect and reputation and a bit angry but > > > > righteous > > > > > > and > > > > > > > kind.> > > > > > > > He will have children. He may have moderate well-being > > from > > > > > > > children and> > > > > > > > may lose his first child as well, especially if there > is > > > some > > > > > > > malefic> > > > > > > > influence on 5th house. He would be dear to the people > > with > > > > > power > > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > authority. He will have good authority or rulership and > > > will > > > > > > enjoy a> > > > > > > > good eventful and enjoyable life. Bestowed with good > > > > qualities, > > > > > > he > > > > > > > will> > > > > > > > do many good deeds.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be angry; > will > > > have > > > > > > > moderate> > > > > > > > well-being from children. The native will lose his > first > > > > child. > > > > > > He > > > > > > > would> > > > > > > > be a proud individual with much self-respect and > > > reputation. > > > > He > > > > > > > would be> > > > > > > > dear to the king.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Parasara Hora> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why should lagna lord going to 5th make the native an > > angry > > > > and> > > > > > > > aggressive individual? One of the logic behind could > be - > > > 5th > > > > > is > > > > > > 3rd> > > > > > > > from 3rd house; and Upachaya (increase) stana of 3rd > > house. > > > > 3rd > > > > > > > house> > > > > > > > signify anger and possibly that is why lagna lord in > 5th > > > > > > increases > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > anger and agitation of the native. But also not that > 5th > > is > > > > 2nd > > > > > > > house> > > > > > > > from 4th (simple and humble mind) making the native a > > > > straight > > > > > > > forward> > > > > > > > individual. It is also mentioned in the sloka that the > > > native > > > > > > will > > > > > > > lose> > > > > > > > his first child - why? The natural expectation would be > > > that > > > > > > lagna > > > > > > > lord> > > > > > > > in 5th should bestow good results for 5th, thus > providing > > > > > > children > > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > happiness from children to the native. Of course if > lagna > > > > lord > > > > > is > > > > > > > in 5th> > > > > > > > is afflicted by some malefic, then it would have double > > > > impact, > > > > > > > since> > > > > > > > the same would affect both the 5th house and the lagna > > lord > > > > > > > amplifying> > > > > > > > the possibility for bad result. Since 5th could signify > > the > > > > > first > > > > > > > child> > > > > > > > the bad result could be attributed to the first child > as > > > > well. > > > > > > > Actually> > > > > > > > this is what we see mentioned in Meenaraja hora. But > > > Parasara > > > > > > > provides> > > > > > > > no such clue about any required malefic influence in > 5th > > > > house! > > > > > > We > > > > > > > are> > > > > > > > wonder stuck by this derivation, and we fail to imagine > > any > > > > > solid > > > > > > > reason> > > > > > > > behind such a derivation in the absence of any malefic > > > > > influence > > > > > > on > > > > > > > 5th> > > > > > > > house. Another version of the same sloka is available, > > > which > > > > > also> > > > > > > > provides similar results.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be proud; > will > > > have > > > > > > > moderate> > > > > > > > well-being from children. He will lose his first child. > > He > > > > > would > > > > > > be> > > > > > > > angry and will have special privileges in the king's > > place.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Parasara Hora> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Apart from minor differences this sloka gives almost > same > > > > > results > > > > > > as> > > > > > > > above. It seems that, the loss of first child should be > > > > > predicted > > > > > > > only> > > > > > > > if there is a malefic influence in 5th house, since the > > > other > > > > > > > available> > > > > > > > slokas give good results concerning children if lagna > > lord > > > is > > > > > in > > > > > > 5th> > > > > > > > house. [Note that similar to in this sloka Parasara > will > > > not > > > > > > mention> > > > > > > > `if the lagna lord is malefic and placed in x house' in > > many> > > > > > > > other slokas as well. We will encounter this writing > > style > > > > > > related > > > > > > > issue> > > > > > > > in many other instances as well] Let us see what > > Meenaraja > > > > has > > > > > to > > > > > > > say.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th house, the native will have > > > children, > > > > > > > righteous> > > > > > > > and kind. He will have good authority or rulership and > > will > > > > > enjoy > > > > > > a > > > > > > > good> > > > > > > > eventful and enjoyable life. Bestowed with good > > qualities, > > > he > > > > > > will > > > > > > > do> > > > > > > > many good deeds.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Meenaraja Hora> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In one printed version of Meenaraja Hora the word > Suseela > > > is > > > > > > quoted > > > > > > > as> > > > > > > > Sugeeta (Good in singing). Select the proper word based > > on > > > > > actual> > > > > > > > experience observed.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Note that as per Meenaraja lagna lord in 5th `provides > > > > children'> > > > > > > > and does not `destroy children'. Even though Parasara > > only > > > > says> > > > > > > > that `lose of first child could happen', he too does > not > > > say> > > > > > > > that `the native will not have children'. If we combine > > the> > > > > > > > statements of both Parasara and Meenaraja the only > > > conclusion > > > > > we > > > > > > > could> > > > > > > > reach is `The native will have children, but he may > loss > > > his > > > > > first> > > > > > > > child as well'. But it should be noted that the loss of > > > first > > > > > > child> > > > > > > > does not seems to be logically supported in the absence > > of > > > > > malefic> > > > > > > > influence on 5th house - this was my initial inference. > > (An > > > > > > > amendment is> > > > > > > > proposed later) The sloka provided by Hora Pradeepam is > > > > almost > > > > > > the > > > > > > > same> > > > > > > > as that of Meenaraja.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th house, the native will have > > > children, > > > > > > > righteous> > > > > > > > and kind. He will have good authority or rulership and > > will > > > > > enjoy > > > > > > a > > > > > > > good> > > > > > > > eventful and happy life. Bestowed with good qualities, > he > > > > will > > > > > do > > > > > > > many> > > > > > > > good deeds.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Hora Pradeepam> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parasara says that Lagna lord in 5th would make the > > native > > > > > angry -> > > > > > > > > > > > > why?> > > > > > > > Clearly any direct logic is not visible. Sun is the > > natural > > > > > > > significator> > > > > > > > of Lagna. If we are considering lagna lord in 5th as > > > similar > > > > to > > > > > > sun > > > > > > > in> > > > > > > > 5th, then the above derivation would be justified and > > > > possibly > > > > > > the > > > > > > > lose> > > > > > > > of first child as well. But is it a correct approach? I > > am > > > > > > doubtful.> > > > > > > > Only verifying the actual results from charts with > > similar > > > > > > > combination> > > > > > > > can shed some light on this issue.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rule 5: Lagna lord in any house should be treated > similar > > > to > > > > > Sun > > > > > > in > > > > > > > that> > > > > > > > house, since Sun is the natural significator of Lagna.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am a bit doubtful about the validity of the above > rule. > > > If > > > > not> > > > > > > > supported by actual results it is better to ignore the > > > above > > > > > > rule. > > > > > > > The> > > > > > > > logic supplied till now does not seem to be capable > > enough > > > to> > > > > > > > satisfactorily explain the strong results proposed by > > > > Parasara > > > > > > such > > > > > > > as -> > > > > > > > Lagna lord in 5th causing the loss of first child; it > > will > > > > also > > > > > > > make the> > > > > > > > native an angry individual. There should be some other > > > logic > > > > as > > > > > > > well.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On retrospect we feel that - Parasara will not say > > > something > > > > > > > without a> > > > > > > > sold reason. Why should he bring planets base result > (e.g.> > > > > > > > benefic/malefic) into it, when he was dealing with > House > > > base> > > > > > > > prediction? That is not logical. There could be some > > other > > > in-> > > > > > depth> > > > > > > > reason. Yes, you are right - there is. Let us analyze > all > > > the > > > > > > > possible> > > > > > > > houses and lagna lord in their fifth house, and check > > > whether > > > > > the > > > > > > > same> > > > > > > > can cause the loss of child -> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) Aries lagna, lagna lord Mars in Leo: Yes, Leo is a > > sign > > > > > > > signifying> > > > > > > > less children, and Mars a malefic in it can indicate > loss > > > of > > > > > > child > > > > > > > for> > > > > > > > sure.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Taurus lagna, lagna lord Venus in Virgo: Virgo is > the > > > > > > > debilitation> > > > > > > > sign for Venus. Also not that Venus owns the lordship > of > > > 6th > > > > > > house > > > > > > > as> > > > > > > > well. Thus for sure for Taurus lagna Venus in 5th can > > > > indicate > > > > > > loss > > > > > > > of> > > > > > > > child for sure.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) Gemini lagna, lagna lord Me in Libra: Note that > Venus > > > the > > > > > lord > > > > > > of> > > > > > > > Libra owns the 12th house (house indicating death) as > > well. > > > > > > > Possibly the> > > > > > > > combination can indicate loss or death.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4) Cancer lagna, Moon in Scorpio: Scorpio is the > > > debilitation > > > > > > sign > > > > > > > for> > > > > > > > Moon. Ofcourse the same can indicate the loss of child.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5) Leo lagna, Sun in Sagittarius: Note that the lord of > > > > > > Sagittarius> > > > > > > > Jupiter owns the 8th house (death) as well. Thus > > certainly > > > the> > > > > > > > combination can indicate the loss or death of child.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6) Virgo lagna, Me in Capricorn: The lord of Capricorn > > > Saturn > > > > > > owns > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > 6th house as well. Possibly the combination can > indicate > > > bad > > > > > > results> > > > > > > > such as loss of child - amended by the fact that both > > > Mercury > > > > > and > > > > > > > Saturn> > > > > > > > are imbecile planets.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 7) Libra lagna, Venus in Aquarius: Note that lagna lord > > > Venus > > > > > is > > > > > > > also> > > > > > > > the 8th lord. Certainly 8th lord is a malefic, and a > > > malefic > > > > > > placed > > > > > > > in> > > > > > > > 5th can indicate lose of child.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you continue this analysis, you could see that for > > most > > > of > > > > > the > > > > > > 12> > > > > > > > signs, lagna lord placed in 5th can indicate the loss > of > > > > child, > > > > > > even> > > > > > > > though the same does not match perfectly for Aquarius > and > > > > > Pisces > > > > > > > Lagna.> > > > > > > > Thus it becomes clear that Parasara was not making a > > > > statement > > > > > > > without> > > > > > > > base or without understanding. His derivation sprung > from > > > the > > > > > deep> > > > > > > > understanding that `for all the 12 signs, lagna lord in > > 5th > > > > is > > > > > not> > > > > > > > favorably placed, and this can be crystallized into the > > > brief > > > > > > > statement> > > > > > > > - lagna lord in 5th can indicate bad results such as -> > loss > > > > of > > > > > > first> > > > > > > > child and anger'. Then is it that Meenaraja was wrong > and > > > > > Parasara> > > > > > > > was right? No, it is not so. Meenaraja was deriving a > > > result > > > > > > based > > > > > > > on> > > > > > > > the prime condition – Lagna lord in 5th alone. For this > > > prime> > > > > > > > combination Meenaraja's derivation is absolutely right. > > But> > > > > > > > Parasara's amendment springs from his deep > understanding > > of > > > > the> > > > > > > > zodiac. He knew that the general statement regarding > > lagna > > > > lord > > > > > > in > > > > > > > other> > > > > > > > houses may not be completely true for lagna lord in > 5th, > > > due > > > > to> > > > > > > > essential mutually co-related nature of the signs > itself. > > > So > > > > > his > > > > > > > opinion> > > > > > > > would be, `Yes, Meenaraja is right. But you know the > > Signs > > > in> > > > > > > > Zodiac, they have some specific connection to death as > > far > > > as > > > > > 5th > > > > > > > house> > > > > > > > is concerned. So your general derivation as proposed by > > > > > Meenaraja > > > > > > > will> > > > > > > > not work in this case. Consider this special nature of > > 5th > > > > from > > > > > > all > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > signs and modify your derivation accordingly. The you > > will > > > > see > > > > > > that,> > > > > > > > lagna lord in 5th can signify many bad results such as > > loss > > > > of > > > > > > first> > > > > > > > child and anger'. It must be this deeper understanding > > which> > > > > > > > prompted Parasara to suggest such a result. Yes, > > Meenaraja > > > is > > > > > > > right, but> > > > > > > > Parasara is also not off the mark. Meenaraja is > concerned > > > > with > > > > > the> > > > > > > > general logic of the derivation only, but Parasara goes > > > > deeper > > > > > in > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > general zodiacal context. Note it - possibly in other > > > > > situations > > > > > > as > > > > > > > well> > > > > > > > the same could be the case - Parasara has a better > > > > > understanding > > > > > > > about> > > > > > > > the zodiacal context, and may mix it with general > result > > > > > > > derivation. His> > > > > > > > thought and understanding penetrates into deaths; and > is > > > more > > > > > far > > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > wide. He is not depended on mere logic alone - he is > more > > > > > > > practical. It> > > > > > > > is because of this in-depth understanding; Parasara is > > > termed > > > > a > > > > > > > sage,> > > > > > > > but Meenaraja a king, a scholar.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But even this understanding of Parasara view does not > > does > > > > not > > > > > > > allow me> > > > > > > > to pardon him - because here to derive the result he > > mixed > > > > the > > > > > > > methods> > > > > > > > of Sign-House Base result derivation, while dealing > with > > > > House > > > > > > Base> > > > > > > > result derivation - causing confusion to the learner. I > > > would > > > > > > > suggest> > > > > > > > that, in this context, the beginners should stick to > the > > > > > cleaner > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > systematic approach proposed by Meenaraja, while trying > > to > > > > > master > > > > > > > House> > > > > > > > Base result derivation technique. The deeper > > possibilities > > > and> > > > > > > > modification to the suggested results should dealt with > > and > > > > > > > understood,> > > > > > > > while trying to learn Sign-House Base result derivation > > > > > technique.> > > > > > > > The 5th house signifies things such as - children, > > > > intelligence,> > > > > > > > creativity, genius, stomach, belly, ministers, secret > > hymns > > > > > > recited > > > > > > > etc.> > > > > > > > Thus the placement of lagna lord in 5th generates > special > > > > > > > importance to> > > > > > > > the derivations related to the same.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Extract from:> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh/> > > > > > > La\> > > > > > > > gna%20lord%20in%20Various%20Houses.pdf> > > > > > > > ==============================================> > > > > > > > Love,> > > > > > > > Sreenadh> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >> Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger. 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Guest guest Posted September 28, 2007 Report Share Posted September 28, 2007 Hare ramakrishna, dear renu ji , lalit will not insult a female because she born as female .I know personaly him and is a great devotee of holi mother ,such a persons cannot humilate a woman according to the tradition. Only it was a laungage problem came in while writing the post rgds sunil nair om shreem mahalaxmai namah. , "renunw" <renunw wrote:>> > Dear Lalit ji,> > > "loss doesn't mean death, it may be girl child, it may be hopeless > > child, it may be a child with poor health, "> > > Please kindly note that the above statement by you is absurd and > insulting. Do you consider a girl born is as similar as a hopeless > child?> Or similar to a child with poor health? I am sure this has nothing to > do with gender but may be I agree with your other suggestions.> > This is the 21st century and gone are the days of the male dominant > society. Don't you have a mother, a sister, a wife or a daughter? Do > you think your mother was born to this world as a result of a malefic > influence on the lagna lord placed in the 5H of her mother's horoscope?> > > I am sorry to write like this...but never ever forget that male and > female hold equal status in this world. > > blessings> > Renu> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2007 Report Share Posted September 28, 2007 My lagna lord is Moon in the 5th house.I had 2 abortions prior to birth of my only son, who also would have died if surgery was not performed on him when he was only 6 weeks old.I certainly hope, my boys will have a long life, as I love him so.I was never called an angree or self-centered person, and I cannot possibly see it in me either. But, of course, this is not my call to make.I am fairly ambitious, but i am much more into being a good mother to my child and into enjoying my life to the fullest.Please, don't forget that 5th is the house of children (including your inner child), creativity and fun!javed khaanzada <javed_khaanzada wrote: Dear Lalit and Srinadh ji, As in Parasar Hora stated: If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be angry; will have moderate well-being from children. The native will lose his first child. He would be a proud individual with much self-respect and reputation. He would be dear to the king. Mine lagna lord is Mars,which is placed in 5th house in my lagna chart.When my wife was in 3rd month of pregnancy,she had a miss carriage in 1993,it was our first baby,after that we have four children,quite healthy. Regds-javed litsol <mlalit wrote: Dear Srinadh,Leave it, I m not part of ur show, where u r the only script writer, director, actor, viewer and even the stage is your's.I had an impression that this is a open group where a collective learning may emerge to make astrology more advanced more effective but, I feel i was wrong in my understanding, you w'd never accept ur shortcomings and w'd never take inputs from members. so i drop it.u make ur rules for ur convenience sake, act on ur rules as per ur convenience and you teach rules to others as per ur conveniince and define liberty from rules as per ur convenience.when i saw ur post, instinctively, without thinking much about subsequent consequences, happen to respond to you, which will never be there, i m a I m a easy going man, open minded person.I have no objection, carry on ur show, i m silent.regards,Lalit. , "Sreenadh" <sreesog wrote:>> Dear Lalit ji,> The questions in articles are -> * Guidance to think.> * They are part of the process of thinking > * They are not demanding, requesting and asking someone to come and > give a ready made answer, such as "Perhaps u have not checked malefic > influence on 5'th house with horoscopes... and I will teach you the > remedy, the correct results and the method to be followed"; know that > it is to motivate thinking; it is to motivate more fuel to the fire > with in; to guide others and me to learn to think itself - > systematically; in the way astrology demands! Note that 7-fold method > is a "Thought Tool", a methodology for thinking. With a peaceful mind > think about it - and you will see what I mean. > What the questions you present in your own writeups/articles - you > will what I mean.> ==>> > if ur post is only house specific why u raise such questions and > > then try to find answers, > <==> I hope the above section clarifies this. The post was 'house > specific' that too is right.> ==>> > u urself asked the question in ur post - "Why should lagna > > lord going to 5th make the native an angry and aggressive > > individual" and tried to understand the reason> <== > Yes, I did raise that question and tried to answer it - because that > was a result derived by Parasara and I was thinking about the logic > behind it; Certainly that is related to 'House Base' derivation, and > not related to anything else. > Did you tried to think and find an answer to that question? Did you > checked the same in some example horoscopes and found that it doesn't > work? > Now let us come to your comment on the same -> Comment -1> ==>> > If u r doing a commentary on the ancient classics, ur approach is > > right and there is lot to learn from such writings, but as > > far as learning is concerned, more urge to study and dissect the > > obsecure cases is required.> <==> What do you mean by 'obscure cases'? Do you mean example horoscopes? > The do it yourself - and present the results! That is the way to go - > an a research approach, and we too would be benefited by that; go > ahead and do it! Note that the above statement by you lacks even the > basic understanding that "the article was dealing with House Base > result derivation, and that too about LL in 5th"! > Comment -2> ==>> > same way, 5'th has connection to 11'th house, the house of gains, > > this combination of lagna lord's placement in 5'th house > > makes a person too much ambitious, self cenetered, he is self > > promting so should be aggressive coz his rise is his main objective > > of the life. This is what i observed.> <==> Yah, that is good logic - and a good suggestion. But note the last > statement "This is what i observed"! We all know that you started > learning astrology before 5 months only. Of course you are a smart > learner, and has good logic, (I appreciate that, and happy about it). > Considering the above facts, possibly if it was something like -"This > is a better logical derivation I feel", it would have been more > pleasant. Even if you have "observed" such combinations - your > time span of 5 months is not even enough to complete the training > period and clear the testing phase! :=)> Lalit ji, don't take all these comments personally - I love you very > much, and know well that it is rare to find such a good potential. > But don't do the mistake becoming a teacher; don't do the mistake of > becoming a teacher - your experience and knowledge is not enough for > that; I have at least 8 years experience as a professional > astrologer, but still I am a learner and yet to become a teacher; I > don't think in near future it would be possible as well; thus the > fact is there are no teachers in this group; and never can be. > We are all fellow students here - even though the amount of > knowledge may vary a bit from individual to individual; that is not > much important. But learning to be a learner, and being a learner, > and accepting that i am a learner and that my knowledge is limited -> IS important. We simply don't have answers to everything - and never > can be. > Be with me brother and give a bit credit for being elder... > Love and Hugs,> Sreenadh> > , "Sreenadh" > <sreesog@> wrote:> >> > Dear Lalit ji,> > Are you noticing that we are deviating from the subject? Present > > your views on Lagna lord in 5th in a well written way (In similar > > discussions - Baquya ji does it - he is good; Srinivas ji does it; > > Sunil Does it; RK ji does it; similarly many more members) and I > will > > love to see the same - whether it be from experience or from Logic. > > Second, I am NOT teaching anybody - but learning and presenting > > systematically - of course my experience as an astrologer, and of > the > > books would be useful in that effort. But never expect or feel that > I > > am teaching - I am NOT. Everybody learns by themselves. Everybody > > should try to present there sincere "understandingabout the > > subject under discussion" with clarity. There is NO Teacher-> Learner, > > Master-Disciple here; But only learners - all members present in > this > > group are humble learners of the astrological wisdom presented by > > sages. I am a learner a student of them, and NOT a teacher to > anyone. > > Please understand this.> > Love,> > Sreenadh> > > > , "litsol" > > <mlalit@> wrote:> > >> > > Dear Srinadh,> > > > > > Do u mean, If u r not clear somewhere or u r missing something > and > > > someone points out to the mising point, he himself lacks the > > > understanding, very good approach, sorry to interrupt this time, > > now > > > onwards will never try to correct you. > > > > > > However,u urself asked the question in ur post - "Why should > lagna > > > lord going to 5th make the native an angry and aggressive > > > individual" and tried to understand the reason, if ur post is > only > > > house specific why u raise such questions and then try to find > > > answers, simply i thuoght to correct ur effort with my > > understanding > > > but ur attitude is very different,So much inclination in teaching > > is > > > affecting ur's learning only.> > > > > > > > > regards,> > > Lalit> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Sreenadh" > > > <sreesog@> wrote:> > > >> > > > Dear Lalit ji,> > > > Malefic effect in 5th causing many troubles is a known fact to > > all > > > > astrologers - no explanation is needed on the same. Knowing > what > > > > those troubles are, needs considering a lot of other > parameters. > > > > Deriving the details - which uses several methodologies such as > > > > Bhavat Bhava Chinta, Karkat Bhava chinta, considering other > > > > combinations - know that there is a big distance to go and it > is > > > not > > > > that simple. > > > > What we are doing here is not trying to reach some inflexible > > > > conclusion; or to analyze someone's horoscope; but to see to > what > > > > extend the slokas on 'House Base' derivation technique can > point > > > to. > > > > Try to understand things in the context they are. > > > > When you are trying your own bit of logic in something - > present > > > it > > > > that way; Instead of saying this is right or that is wrong, or > > > > somewhere else is the crux. Present - as per your logic you > think > > > it > > > > could be so and so. (Don't bring in I have seen such and such > in > > > some > > > > horoscope and so let us discuss that horoscope strategy as > well - > > > > that is not the way. If the same combination is present in some > > > known > > > > horoscope - the combination alone can be considered for > > > verification, > > > > and other feature or details of that horoscope should be > > neglected. > > > > We should stick to the context and the method of study). Loss > can > > > > mean many things - > > > > * It could be abortion> > > > * It could untimely death of son at a later age (as in the > case > > of > > > > Indira Gandhi)> > > > * It could be a missing son Or there could be many other > > > > possibilities as well.> > > > Neither the sloka nor we are going in to that details - > instead > > > what > > > > we are doing is 'Trying to learn the logical background and > > > concepts > > > > used in House Base derivation by the sages; and thus trying to > > > master > > > > that technique' - know this well. > > > > ==>> > > > > there are chances for the entire hard work to be confined to > > mere > > > > > translation of some shlokas, which i think, is certainly not > > the > > > > > objective.> > > > <== > > > > Clearly the above words come from lack of understanding of > > > objective > > > > and strategy, of this group. Please check -> > > > * The previous mails on the same thread> > > > * The files in the files folder dealing with similar things > > (i.e. > > > > Articles related to 7-fold result derivation technique of > > astrology)> > > > * Thus instead of starting afresh were you land yourself in > the > > > > forum, create a background to deal with the subject in hand, > > > > systematically.> > > > Note: The document regarding "Lagna lord in various houses was > > > there > > > > in file section for many days, and mails about file uploading > > goes > > > to > > > > every member, the main thread of discussion is on the same; but > > > alas! > > > > the never read or refer to such files and instead depend on the > > > > posted mails alone! No serious learner who approach astrology > > > > shouldn't follow such a method. He should download and study > them > > > > before putting in his bit - and that SHOULD BE a well thought > out > > > > one - depicting his sincerity and earnest effort to understand > > and > > > > learn the path shown by the sages". Whether such a view matches > > > with > > > > mine or not is irrelevant. But the contribution should be > > valuable -> > > > > > > coming out from research, experience and effort.> > > > Hope the confusion is clarified.> > > > Love and Hugs,> > > > Sreenadh> > > > > > > > , "litsol" > > > > <mlalit@> wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Dear Srinadh,> > > > > > > > > > Pls. tell where i m wrong in finding such shortcomings in > what > > u > > > > > tried to derive and explain after the translation, in fact, i > > > saw, > > > > u > > > > > urself tried to understand what is missing, struggled a lot, > > but > > > > just > > > > > stopped before touching the crux, a gap remained is to cover > > up. > > > > > > > > > > I suggested something for the betterment only.> > > > > > > > > > loss doesn't mean death, it may be girl child, it may be > > hopeless > > > > > child, it may be a child with poor health, we need to be more > > > > specific> > > > > while deriving the results and explaining them to group.> > > > > > > > > > be admissive and keep a holistic approach so that a right > > > learning > > > > > approach could be developed having inputs from every one, > > > > otherwise, > > > > > there are chances for the entire hardwork to be confined to > > mere > > > > > translation of some shlokas, which i think, is certainly not > > the > > > > > objective.> > > > > > > > > > if u mind and dont consider what u r told, i have no business > > to > > > > > interrupt you, u can move on ur ways.> > > > > > > > > > regards,> > > > > Lalit.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Sreenadh" > > > > > <sreesog@> wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > Dear Lalit ji,> > > > > > Did you ever been an astrologer? I think not. Just simply > > > learn!> > > > > > Love,> > > > > > Sreenadh> > > > > > > > > > > > , "litsol" > > > > > > <mlalit@> wrote:> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Dear Srinadh,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Perhapse u have not checked malific influence on 5'th > house > > > > with > > > > > > > horoscopes,However, i appreciate ur efforts to understand > > the > > > > > > > consequences of 5'th house as well as lagna lord's > > placement > > > in > > > > > > 5'th > > > > > > > house.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > A malific influence in 5'th does not always lead to loss > of > > > the > > > > > > first > > > > > > > child, this placement sometimes give girl child, death of > > > child > > > > > is > > > > > > an > > > > > > > extreme result which happens in cases of extreme > > malificance. > > > I > > > > > > > remember once u said during discussion of BB that 4'th > > house > > > > may > > > > > > > denote loss of child, if 4'th there are other house as > well > > > as > > > > > with > > > > > > > reference to 5'th house.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > If u r doing a commentary on the ancient classics, ur > > > approach > > > > is > > > > > > > right and there is lot to learn from such writings, but > as > > > far > > > > as > > > > > > > learning is concerned, more urge to study and dissect the > > > > > obsecure > > > > > > > cases is required.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > same way, 5'th has connection to 11'th house, the house > of > > > > gains, > > > > > > > this combination of lagna lord's placement in 5'th house > > > makes > > > > a > > > > > > > person too much ambitious, self cenetered, he is self > > > promting > > > > so > > > > > > > should be aggressive coz his rise is his main objective > of > > > the > > > > > life.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is what i observed.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards,> > > > > > > Lalit.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Sreenadh" > > > > > > > <sreesog@> wrote:> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear All,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The results for Lagna lord in 5th house is discussed > > > below.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==============================================> > > > > > > > Lagna lord in 5th House> > > > > > > > -----------------------------> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be proud an > > > > > individual > > > > > > > with> > > > > > > > much self-respect and reputation and a bit angry but > > > > righteous > > > > > > and > > > > > > > kind.> > > > > > > > He will have children. He may have moderate well-being > > from > > > > > > > children and> > > > > > > > may lose his first child as well, especially if there > is > > > some > > > > > > > malefic> > > > > > > > influence on 5th house. He would be dear to the people > > with > > > > > power > > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > authority. He will have good authority or rulership and > > > will > > > > > > enjoy a> > > > > > > > good eventful and enjoyable life. Bestowed with good > > > > qualities, > > > > > > he > > > > > > > will> > > > > > > > do many good deeds.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be angry; > will > > > have > > > > > > > moderate> > > > > > > > well-being from children. The native will lose his > first > > > > child. > > > > > > He > > > > > > > would> > > > > > > > be a proud individual with much self-respect and > > > reputation. > > > > He > > > > > > > would be> > > > > > > > dear to the king.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Parasara Hora> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why should lagna lord going to 5th make the native an > > angry > > > > and> > > > > > > > aggressive individual? One of the logic behind could > be - > > > 5th > > > > > is > > > > > > 3rd> > > > > > > > from 3rd house; and Upachaya (increase) stana of 3rd > > house. > > > > 3rd > > > > > > > house> > > > > > > > signify anger and possibly that is why lagna lord in > 5th > > > > > > increases > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > anger and agitation of the native. But also not that > 5th > > is > > > > 2nd > > > > > > > house> > > > > > > > from 4th (simple and humble mind) making the native a > > > > straight > > > > > > > forward> > > > > > > > individual. It is also mentioned in the sloka that the > > > native > > > > > > will > > > > > > > lose> > > > > > > > his first child - why? The natural expectation would be > > > that > > > > > > lagna > > > > > > > lord> > > > > > > > in 5th should bestow good results for 5th, thus > providing > > > > > > children > > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > happiness from children to the native. Of course if > lagna > > > > lord > > > > > is > > > > > > > in 5th> > > > > > > > is afflicted by some malefic, then it would have double > > > > impact, > > > > > > > since> > > > > > > > the same would affect both the 5th house and the lagna > > lord > > > > > > > amplifying> > > > > > > > the possibility for bad result. Since 5th could signify > > the > > > > > first > > > > > > > child> > > > > > > > the bad result could be attributed to the first child > as > > > > well. > > > > > > > Actually> > > > > > > > this is what we see mentioned in Meenaraja hora. But > > > Parasara > > > > > > > provides> > > > > > > > no such clue about any required malefic influence in > 5th > > > > house! > > > > > > We > > > > > > > are> > > > > > > > wonder stuck by this derivation, and we fail to imagine > > any > > > > > solid > > > > > > > reason> > > > > > > > behind such a derivation in the absence of any malefic > > > > > influence > > > > > > on > > > > > > > 5th> > > > > > > > house. Another version of the same sloka is available, > > > which > > > > > also> > > > > > > > provides similar results.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be proud; > will > > > have > > > > > > > moderate> > > > > > > > well-being from children. He will lose his first child. > > He > > > > > would > > > > > > be> > > > > > > > angry and will have special privileges in the king's > > place.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Parasara Hora> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Apart from minor differences this sloka gives almost > same > > > > > results > > > > > > as> > > > > > > > above. It seems that, the loss of first child should be > > > > > predicted > > > > > > > only> > > > > > > > if there is a malefic influence in 5th house, since the > > > other > > > > > > > available> > > > > > > > slokas give good results concerning children if lagna > > lord > > > is > > > > > in > > > > > > 5th> > > > > > > > house. [Note that similar to in this sloka Parasara > will > > > not > > > > > > mention> > > > > > > > `if the lagna lord is malefic and placed in x house' in > > many> > > > > > > > other slokas as well. We will encounter this writing > > style > > > > > > related > > > > > > > issue> > > > > > > > in many other instances as well] Let us see what > > Meenaraja > > > > has > > > > > to > > > > > > > say.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th house, the native will have > > > children, > > > > > > > righteous> > > > > > > > and kind. He will have good authority or rulership and > > will > > > > > enjoy > > > > > > a > > > > > > > good> > > > > > > > eventful and enjoyable life. Bestowed with good > > qualities, > > > he > > > > > > will > > > > > > > do> > > > > > > > many good deeds.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Meenaraja Hora> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In one printed version of Meenaraja Hora the word > Suseela > > > is > > > > > > quoted > > > > > > > as> > > > > > > > Sugeeta (Good in singing). Select the proper word based > > on > > > > > actual> > > > > > > > experience observed.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Note that as per Meenaraja lagna lord in 5th `provides > > > > children'> > > > > > > > and does not `destroy children'. Even though Parasara > > only > > > > says> > > > > > > > that `lose of first child could happen', he too does > not > > > say> > > > > > > > that `the native will not have children'. If we combine > > the> > > > > > > > statements of both Parasara and Meenaraja the only > > > conclusion > > > > > we > > > > > > > could> > > > > > > > reach is `The native will have children, but he may > loss > > > his > > > > > first> > > > > > > > child as well'. But it should be noted that the loss of > > > first > > > > > > child> > > > > > > > does not seems to be logically supported in the absence > > of > > > > > malefic> > > > > > > > influence on 5th house - this was my initial inference. > > (An > > > > > > > amendment is> > > > > > > > proposed later) The sloka provided by Hora Pradeepam is > > > > almost > > > > > > the > > > > > > > same> > > > > > > > as that of Meenaraja.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th house, the native will have > > > children, > > > > > > > righteous> > > > > > > > and kind. He will have good authority or rulership and > > will > > > > > enjoy > > > > > > a > > > > > > > good> > > > > > > > eventful and happy life. Bestowed with good qualities, > he > > > > will > > > > > do > > > > > > > many> > > > > > > > good deeds.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Hora Pradeepam> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parasara says that Lagna lord in 5th would make the > > native > > > > > angry -> > > > > > > > > > > > > why?> > > > > > > > Clearly any direct logic is not visible. Sun is the > > natural > > > > > > > significator> > > > > > > > of Lagna. If we are considering lagna lord in 5th as > > > similar > > > > to > > > > > > sun > > > > > > > in> > > > > > > > 5th, then the above derivation would be justified and > > > > possibly > > > > > > the > > > > > > > lose> > > > > > > > of first child as well. But is it a correct approach? I > > am > > > > > > doubtful.> > > > > > > > Only verifying the actual results from charts with > > similar > > > > > > > combination> > > > > > > > can shed some light on this issue.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rule 5: Lagna lord in any house should be treated > similar > > > to > > > > > Sun > > > > > > in > > > > > > > that> > > > > > > > house, since Sun is the natural significator of Lagna.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am a bit doubtful about the validity of the above > rule. > > > If > > > > not> > > > > > > > supported by actual results it is better to ignore the > > > above > > > > > > rule. > > > > > > > The> > > > > > > > logic supplied till now does not seem to be capable > > enough > > > to> > > > > > > > satisfactorily explain the strong results proposed by > > > > Parasara > > > > > > such > > > > > > > as -> > > > > > > > Lagna lord in 5th causing the loss of first child; it > > will > > > > also > > > > > > > make the> > > > > > > > native an angry individual. There should be some other > > > logic > > > > as > > > > > > > well.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On retrospect we feel that - Parasara will not say > > > something > > > > > > > without a> > > > > > > > sold reason. Why should he bring planets base result > (e.g.> > > > > > > > benefic/malefic) into it, when he was dealing with > House > > > base> > > > > > > > prediction? That is not logical. There could be some > > other > > > in-> > > > > > depth> > > > > > > > reason. Yes, you are right - there is. Let us analyze > all > > > the > > > > > > > possible> > > > > > > > houses and lagna lord in their fifth house, and check > > > whether > > > > > the > > > > > > > same> > > > > > > > can cause the loss of child -> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) Aries lagna, lagna lord Mars in Leo: Yes, Leo is a > > sign > > > > > > > signifying> > > > > > > > less children, and Mars a malefic in it can indicate > loss > > > of > > > > > > child > > > > > > > for> > > > > > > > sure.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Taurus lagna, lagna lord Venus in Virgo: Virgo is > the > > > > > > > debilitation> > > > > > > > sign for Venus. Also not that Venus owns the lordship > of > > > 6th > > > > > > house > > > > > > > as> > > > > > > > well. Thus for sure for Taurus lagna Venus in 5th can > > > > indicate > > > > > > loss > > > > > > > of> > > > > > > > child for sure.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) Gemini lagna, lagna lord Me in Libra: Note that > Venus > > > the > > > > > lord > > > > > > of> > > > > > > > Libra owns the 12th house (house indicating death) as > > well. > > > > > > > Possibly the> > > > > > > > combination can indicate loss or death.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4) Cancer lagna, Moon in Scorpio: Scorpio is the > > > debilitation > > > > > > sign > > > > > > > for> > > > > > > > Moon. Ofcourse the same can indicate the loss of child.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5) Leo lagna, Sun in Sagittarius: Note that the lord of > > > > > > Sagittarius> > > > > > > > Jupiter owns the 8th house (death) as well. Thus > > certainly > > > the> > > > > > > > combination can indicate the loss or death of child.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6) Virgo lagna, Me in Capricorn: The lord of Capricorn > > > Saturn > > > > > > owns > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > 6th house as well. Possibly the combination can > indicate > > > bad > > > > > > results> > > > > > > > such as loss of child - amended by the fact that both > > > Mercury > > > > > and > > > > > > > Saturn> > > > > > > > are imbecile planets.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 7) Libra lagna, Venus in Aquarius: Note that lagna lord > > > Venus > > > > > is > > > > > > > also> > > > > > > > the 8th lord. Certainly 8th lord is a malefic, and a > > > malefic > > > > > > placed > > > > > > > in> > > > > > > > 5th can indicate lose of child.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you continue this analysis, you could see that for > > most > > > of > > > > > the > > > > > > 12> > > > > > > > signs, lagna lord placed in 5th can indicate the loss > of > > > > child, > > > > > > even> > > > > > > > though the same does not match perfectly for Aquarius > and > > > > > Pisces > > > > > > > Lagna.> > > > > > > > Thus it becomes clear that Parasara was not making a > > > > statement > > > > > > > without> > > > > > > > base or without understanding. His derivation sprung > from > > > the > > > > > deep> > > > > > > > understanding that `for all the 12 signs, lagna lord in > > 5th > > > > is > > > > > not> > > > > > > > favorably placed, and this can be crystallized into the > > > brief > > > > > > > statement> > > > > > > > - lagna lord in 5th can indicate bad results such as -> > loss > > > > of > > > > > > first> > > > > > > > child and anger'. Then is it that Meenaraja was wrong > and > > > > > Parasara> > > > > > > > was right? No, it is not so. Meenaraja was deriving a > > > result > > > > > > based > > > > > > > on> > > > > > > > the prime condition – Lagna lord in 5th alone. For this > > > prime> > > > > > > > combination Meenaraja's derivation is absolutely right. > > But> > > > > > > > Parasara's amendment springs from his deep > understanding > > of > > > > the> > > > > > > > zodiac. He knew that the general statement regarding > > lagna > > > > lord > > > > > > in > > > > > > > other> > > > > > > > houses may not be completely true for lagna lord in > 5th, > > > due > > > > to> > > > > > > > essential mutually co-related nature of the signs > itself. > > > So > > > > > his > > > > > > > opinion> > > > > > > > would be, `Yes, Meenaraja is right. But you know the > > Signs > > > in> > > > > > > > Zodiac, they have some specific connection to death as > > far > > > as > > > > > 5th > > > > > > > house> > > > > > > > is concerned. So your general derivation as proposed by > > > > > Meenaraja > > > > > > > will> > > > > > > > not work in this case. Consider this special nature of > > 5th > > > > from > > > > > > all > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > signs and modify your derivation accordingly. The you > > will > > > > see > > > > > > that,> > > > > > > > lagna lord in 5th can signify many bad results such as > > loss > > > > of > > > > > > first> > > > > > > > child and anger'. It must be this deeper understanding > > which> > > > > > > > prompted Parasara to suggest such a result. Yes, > > Meenaraja > > > is > > > > > > > right, but> > > > > > > > Parasara is also not off the mark. Meenaraja is > concerned > > > > with > > > > > the> > > > > > > > general logic of the derivation only, but Parasara goes > > > > deeper > > > > > in > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > general zodiacal context. Note it - possibly in other > > > > > situations > > > > > > as > > > > > > > well> > > > > > > > the same could be the case - Parasara has a better > > > > > understanding > > > > > > > about> > > > > > > > the zodiacal context, and may mix it with general > result > > > > > > > derivation. His> > > > > > > > thought and understanding penetrates into deaths; and > is > > > more > > > > > far > > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > wide. He is not depended on mere logic alone - he is > more > > > > > > > practical. It> > > > > > > > is because of this in-depth understanding; Parasara is > > > termed > > > > a > > > > > > > sage,> > > > > > > > but Meenaraja a king, a scholar.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But even this understanding of Parasara view does not > > does > > > > not > > > > > > > allow me> > > > > > > > to pardon him - because here to derive the result he > > mixed > > > > the > > > > > > > methods> > > > > > > > of Sign-House Base result derivation, while dealing > with > > > > House > > > > > > Base> > > > > > > > result derivation - causing confusion to the learner. I > > > would > > > > > > > suggest> > > > > > > > that, in this context, the beginners should stick to > the > > > > > cleaner > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > systematic approach proposed by Meenaraja, while trying > > to > > > > > master > > > > > > > House> > > > > > > > Base result derivation technique. The deeper > > possibilities > > > and> > > > > > > > modification to the suggested results should dealt with > > and > > > > > > > understood,> > > > > > > > while trying to learn Sign-House Base result derivation > > > > > technique.> > > > > > > > The 5th house signifies things such as - children, > > > > intelligence,> > > > > > > > creativity, genius, stomach, belly, ministers, secret > > hymns > > > > > > recited > > > > > > > etc.> > > > > > > > Thus the placement of lagna lord in 5th generates > special > > > > > > > importance to> > > > > > > > the derivations related to the same.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Extract from:> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh/> > > > > > > La\> > > > > > > > gna%20lord%20in%20Various%20Houses.pdf> > > > > > > > ==============================================> > > > > > > > Love,> > > > > > > > Sreenadh> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >> Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger. 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Guest guest Posted September 28, 2007 Report Share Posted September 28, 2007 Dear Sunil ji, I am glad if it is so and I do apologize if I had made a mistake. I am sure he did not intentionally mean to insult... Anyway I don't think it was a language problem. What he wrote was that afflicted LL in 5H could lead to a birth of a girl child, a sick child, a hopeless child and so on. So it is obvious that he has put 'girl child' also to the same category as any other handicapped or unfortunate child. Don't you think it is unfair to do so? Why can't then an afflicted LL in 5H could give birth to a 'boy child'? A healthy girl is as good as a healthy boy. A girl is not born as a result of affliction to child giving houses!!! blessings Renu , " sunil nair " <astro_tellerkerala wrote: > > > Hare ramakrishna, > > dear renu ji , > > lalit will not insult a female because she born as female .I > know personaly him and is a great devotee of holi mother ,such a > persons cannot humilate a woman according to the tradition. > > Only it was a laungage problem came in while writing the post > > rgds sunil nair > > om shreem mahalaxmai namah. , " renunw " <renunw@> > wrote: > > > > > Dear Lalit ji, > > > > > " loss doesn't mean death, it may be girl child, it may be hopeless > > > child, it may be a child with poor health, " > > > > > > Please kindly note that the above statement by you is absurd and > > insulting. Do you consider a girl born is as similar as a hopeless > > child? > > Or similar to a child with poor health? I am sure this has nothing to > > do with gender but may be I agree with your other suggestions. > > > > This is the 21st century and gone are the days of the male dominant > > society. Don't you have a mother, a sister, a wife or a daughter? Do > > you think your mother was born to this world as a result of a malefic > > influence on the lagna lord placed in the 5H of her mother's > horoscope? > > > > > > I am sorry to write like this...but never ever forget that male and > > female hold equal status in this world. > > > > blessings > > > > Renu > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2007 Report Share Posted September 28, 2007 No offense... just wondering about your point on view on this sloka... Dhol, gawanr, sudra, pasu, nari yeh sab tadan ke adhikari isnt from Ramcharitmanas ? Best Wishes Jagdishrenunw <renunw wrote: Dear Sunil ji,I am glad if it is so and I do apologize if I had made a mistake. I am sure he did not intentionally mean to insult...Anyway I don't think it was a language problem. What he wrote was that afflicted LL in 5H could lead to a birth of a girl child, a sick child, a hopeless child and so on. So it is obvious that he has put 'girl child' also to the same category as any other handicapped or unfortunate child. Don't you think it is unfair to do so? Why can't then an afflicted LL in 5H could give birth to a 'boy child'? A healthy girl is as good as a healthy boy. A girl is not born as a result of affliction to child giving houses!!!blessingsRenu , "sunil nair" <astro_tellerkerala wrote:>> > Hare ramakrishna,> > dear renu ji ,> > lalit will not insult a female because she born as female .I> know personaly him and is a great devotee of holi mother ,such a> persons cannot humilate a woman according to the tradition.> > Only it was a laungage problem came in while writing the post> > rgds sunil nair> > om shreem mahalaxmai namah.> > > > > > > , "renunw" <renunw@>> wrote:> >> > > Dear Lalit ji,> >> > > "loss doesn't mean death, it may be girl child, it may be hopeless> > > child, it may be a child with poor health, "> >> >> > Please kindly note that the above statement by you is absurd and> > insulting. Do you consider a girl born is as similar as a hopeless> > child?> > Or similar to a child with poor health? I am sure this has nothing to> > do with gender but may be I agree with your other suggestions.> >> > This is the 21st century and gone are the days of the male dominant> > society. Don't you have a mother, a sister, a wife or a daughter? Do> > you think your mother was born to this world as a result of a malefic> > influence on the lagna lord placed in the 5H of her mother's> horoscope?> >> >> > I am sorry to write like this...but never ever forget that male and> > female hold equal status in this world.> >> > blessings> >> > Renu> >> Tonight's top picks. What will you watch tonight? Preview the hottest shows on TV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2007 Report Share Posted September 28, 2007 Moon in 5th house and you have boys ... no girls ? Hmm... interesting... Best Wishes Jagdishzhar bird <blagomot wrote: My lagna lord is Moon in the 5th house.I had 2 abortions prior to birth of my only son, who also would have died if surgery was not performed on him when he was only 6 weeks old.I certainly hope, my boys will have a long life, as I love him so.I was never called an angree or self-centered person, and I cannot possibly see it in me either. But, of course, this is not my call to make.I am fairly ambitious, but i am much more into being a good mother to my child and into enjoying my life to the fullest.Please, don't forget that 5th is the house of children (including your inner child), creativity and fun!javed khaanzada <javed_khaanzada > wrote: Dear Lalit and Srinadh ji, As in Parasar Hora stated: If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be angry; will have moderate well-being from children. The native will lose his first child. He would be a proud individual with much self-respect and reputation. He would be dear to the king. Mine lagna lord is Mars,which is placed in 5th house in my lagna chart.When my wife was in 3rd month of pregnancy,she had a miss carriage in 1993,it was our first baby,after that we have four children,quite healthy. Regds-javed litsol <mlalit wrote: Dear Srinadh,Leave it, I m not part of ur show, where u r the only script writer, director, actor, viewer and even the stage is your's.I had an impression that this is a open group where a collective learning may emerge to make astrology more advanced more effective but, I feel i was wrong in my understanding, you w'd never accept ur shortcomings and w'd never take inputs from members. so i drop it.u make ur rules for ur convenience sake, act on ur rules as per ur convenience and you teach rules to others as per ur conveniince and define liberty from rules as per ur convenience.when i saw ur post, instinctively, without thinking much about subsequent consequences, happen to respond to you, which will never be there, i m a I m a easy going man, open minded person.I have no objection, carry on ur show, i m silent.regards,Lalit. , "Sreenadh" <sreesog wrote:>> Dear Lalit ji,> The questions in articles are -> * Guidance to think.> * They are part of the process of thinking > * They are not demanding, requesting and asking someone to come and > give a ready made answer, such as "Perhaps u have not checked malefic > influence on 5'th house with horoscopes... and I will teach you the > remedy, the correct results and the method to be followed"; know that > it is to motivate thinking; it is to motivate more fuel to the fire > with in; to guide others and me to learn to think itself - > systematically; in the way astrology demands! Note that 7-fold method > is a "Thought Tool", a methodology for thinking. With a peaceful mind > think about it - and you will see what I mean. > What the questions you present in your own writeups/articles - you > will what I mean.> ==>> > if ur post is only house specific why u raise such questions and > > then try to find answers, > <==> I hope the above section clarifies this. The post was 'house > specific' that too is right.> ==>> > u urself asked the question in ur post - "Why should lagna > > lord going to 5th make the native an angry and aggressive > > individual" and tried to understand the reason> <== > Yes, I did raise that question and tried to answer it - because that > was a result derived by Parasara and I was thinking about the logic > behind it; Certainly that is related to 'House Base' derivation, and > not related to anything else. > Did you tried to think and find an answer to that question? Did you > checked the same in some example horoscopes and found that it doesn't > work? > Now let us come to your comment on the same -> Comment -1> ==>> > If u r doing a commentary on the ancient classics, ur approach is > > right and there is lot to learn from such writings, but as > > far as learning is concerned, more urge to study and dissect the > > obsecure cases is required.> <==> What do you mean by 'obscure cases'? Do you mean example horoscopes? > The do it yourself - and present the results! That is the way to go - > an a research approach, and we too would be benefited by that; go > ahead and do it! Note that the above statement by you lacks even the > basic understanding that "the article was dealing with House Base > result derivation, and that too about LL in 5th"! > Comment -2> ==>> > same way, 5'th has connection to 11'th house, the house of gains, > > this combination of lagna lord's placement in 5'th house > > makes a person too much ambitious, self cenetered, he is self > > promting so should be aggressive coz his rise is his main objective > > of the life. This is what i observed.> <==> Yah, that is good logic - and a good suggestion. But note the last > statement "This is what i observed"! We all know that you started > learning astrology before 5 months only. Of course you are a smart > learner, and has good logic, (I appreciate that, and happy about it). > Considering the above facts, possibly if it was something like -"This > is a better logical derivation I feel", it would have been more > pleasant. Even if you have "observed" such combinations - your > time span of 5 months is not even enough to complete the training > period and clear the testing phase! :=)> Lalit ji, don't take all these comments personally - I love you very > much, and know well that it is rare to find such a good potential. > But don't do the mistake becoming a teacher; don't do the mistake of > becoming a teacher - your experience and knowledge is not enough for > that; I have at least 8 years experience as a professional > astrologer, but still I am a learner and yet to become a teacher; I > don't think in near future it would be possible as well; thus the > fact is there are no teachers in this group; and never can be. > We are all fellow students here - even though the amount of > knowledge may vary a bit from individual to individual; that is not > much important. But learning to be a learner, and being a learner, > and accepting that i am a learner and that my knowledge is limited -> IS important. We simply don't have answers to everything - and never > can be. > Be with me brother and give a bit credit for being elder... > Love and Hugs,> Sreenadh> > , "Sreenadh" > <sreesog@> wrote:> >> > Dear Lalit ji,> > Are you noticing that we are deviating from the subject? Present > > your views on Lagna lord in 5th in a well written way (In similar > > discussions - Baquya ji does it - he is good; Srinivas ji does it; > > Sunil Does it; RK ji does it; similarly many more members) and I > will > > love to see the same - whether it be from experience or from Logic. > > Second, I am NOT teaching anybody - but learning and presenting > > systematically - of course my experience as an astrologer, and of > the > > books would be useful in that effort. But never expect or feel that > I > > am teaching - I am NOT. Everybody learns by themselves. Everybody > > should try to present there sincere "understandingabout the > > subject under discussion" with clarity. There is NO Teacher-> Learner, > > Master-Disciple here; But only learners - all members present in > this > > group are humble learners of the astrological wisdom presented by > > sages. I am a learner a student of them, and NOT a teacher to > anyone. > > Please understand this.> > Love,> > Sreenadh> > > > , "litsol" > > <mlalit@> wrote:> > >> > > Dear Srinadh,> > > > > > Do u mean, If u r not clear somewhere or u r missing something > and > > > someone points out to the mising point, he himself lacks the > > > understanding, very good approach, sorry to interrupt this time, > > now > > > onwards will never try to correct you. > > > > > > However,u urself asked the question in ur post - "Why should > lagna > > > lord going to 5th make the native an angry and aggressive > > > individual" and tried to understand the reason, if ur post is > only > > > house specific why u raise such questions and then try to find > > > answers, simply i thuoght to correct ur effort with my > > understanding > > > but ur attitude is very different,So much inclination in teaching > > is > > > affecting ur's learning only.> > > > > > > > > regards,> > > Lalit> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Sreenadh" > > > <sreesog@> wrote:> > > >> > > > Dear Lalit ji,> > > > Malefic effect in 5th causing many troubles is a known fact to > > all > > > > astrologers - no explanation is needed on the same. Knowing > what > > > > those troubles are, needs considering a lot of other > parameters. > > > > Deriving the details - which uses several methodologies such as > > > > Bhavat Bhava Chinta, Karkat Bhava chinta, considering other > > > > combinations - know that there is a big distance to go and it > is > > > not > > > > that simple. > > > > What we are doing here is not trying to reach some inflexible > > > > conclusion; or to analyze someone's horoscope; but to see to > what > > > > extend the slokas on 'House Base' derivation technique can > point > > > to. > > > > Try to understand things in the context they are. > > > > When you are trying your own bit of logic in something - > present > > > it > > > > that way; Instead of saying this is right or that is wrong, or > > > > somewhere else is the crux. Present - as per your logic you > think > > > it > > > > could be so and so. (Don't bring in I have seen such and such > in > > > some > > > > horoscope and so let us discuss that horoscope strategy as > well - > > > > that is not the way. If the same combination is present in some > > > known > > > > horoscope - the combination alone can be considered for > > > verification, > > > > and other feature or details of that horoscope should be > > neglected. > > > > We should stick to the context and the method of study). Loss > can > > > > mean many things - > > > > * It could be abortion> > > > * It could untimely death of son at a later age (as in the > case > > of > > > > Indira Gandhi)> > > > * It could be a missing son Or there could be many other > > > > possibilities as well.> > > > Neither the sloka nor we are going in to that details - > instead > > > what > > > > we are doing is 'Trying to learn the logical background and > > > concepts > > > > used in House Base derivation by the sages; and thus trying to > > > master > > > > that technique' - know this well. > > > > ==>> > > > > there are chances for the entire hard work to be confined to > > mere > > > > > translation of some shlokas, which i think, is certainly not > > the > > > > > objective.> > > > <== > > > > Clearly the above words come from lack of understanding of > > > objective > > > > and strategy, of this group. Please check -> > > > * The previous mails on the same thread> > > > * The files in the files folder dealing with similar things > > (i.e. > > > > Articles related to 7-fold result derivation technique of > > astrology)> > > > * Thus instead of starting afresh were you land yourself in > the > > > > forum, create a background to deal with the subject in hand, > > > > systematically.> > > > Note: The document regarding "Lagna lord in various houses was > > > there > > > > in file section for many days, and mails about file uploading > > goes > > > to > > > > every member, the main thread of discussion is on the same; but > > > alas! > > > > the never read or refer to such files and instead depend on the > > > > posted mails alone! No serious learner who approach astrology > > > > shouldn't follow such a method. He should download and study > them > > > > before putting in his bit - and that SHOULD BE a well thought > out > > > > one - depicting his sincerity and earnest effort to understand > > and > > > > learn the path shown by the sages". Whether such a view matches > > > with > > > > mine or not is irrelevant. But the contribution should be > > valuable -> > > > > > > coming out from research, experience and effort.> > > > Hope the confusion is clarified.> > > > Love and Hugs,> > > > Sreenadh> > > > > > > > , "litsol" > > > > <mlalit@> wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Dear Srinadh,> > > > > > > > > > Pls. tell where i m wrong in finding such shortcomings in > what > > u > > > > > tried to derive and explain after the translation, in fact, i > > > saw, > > > > u > > > > > urself tried to understand what is missing, struggled a lot, > > but > > > > just > > > > > stopped before touching the crux, a gap remained is to cover > > up. > > > > > > > > > > I suggested something for the betterment only.> > > > > > > > > > loss doesn't mean death, it may be girl child, it may be > > hopeless > > > > > child, it may be a child with poor health, we need to be more > > > > specific> > > > > while deriving the results and explaining them to group.> > > > > > > > > > be admissive and keep a holistic approach so that a right > > > learning > > > > > approach could be developed having inputs from every one, > > > > otherwise, > > > > > there are chances for the entire hardwork to be confined to > > mere > > > > > translation of some shlokas, which i think, is certainly not > > the > > > > > objective.> > > > > > > > > > if u mind and dont consider what u r told, i have no business > > to > > > > > interrupt you, u can move on ur ways.> > > > > > > > > > regards,> > > > > Lalit.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Sreenadh" > > > > > <sreesog@> wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > Dear Lalit ji,> > > > > > Did you ever been an astrologer? I think not. Just simply > > > learn!> > > > > > Love,> > > > > > Sreenadh> > > > > > > > > > > > , "litsol" > > > > > > <mlalit@> wrote:> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Dear Srinadh,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Perhapse u have not checked malific influence on 5'th > house > > > > with > > > > > > > horoscopes,However, i appreciate ur efforts to understand > > the > > > > > > > consequences of 5'th house as well as lagna lord's > > placement > > > in > > > > > > 5'th > > > > > > > house.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > A malific influence in 5'th does not always lead to loss > of > > > the > > > > > > first > > > > > > > child, this placement sometimes give girl child, death of > > > child > > > > > is > > > > > > an > > > > > > > extreme result which happens in cases of extreme > > malificance. > > > I > > > > > > > remember once u said during discussion of BB that 4'th > > house > > > > may > > > > > > > denote loss of child, if 4'th there are other house as > well > > > as > > > > > with > > > > > > > reference to 5'th house.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > If u r doing a commentary on the ancient classics, ur > > > approach > > > > is > > > > > > > right and there is lot to learn from such writings, but > as > > > far > > > > as > > > > > > > learning is concerned, more urge to study and dissect the > > > > > obsecure > > > > > > > cases is required.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > same way, 5'th has connection to 11'th house, the house > of > > > > gains, > > > > > > > this combination of lagna lord's placement in 5'th house > > > makes > > > > a > > > > > > > person too much ambitious, self cenetered, he is self > > > promting > > > > so > > > > > > > should be aggressive coz his rise is his main objective > of > > > the > > > > > life.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is what i observed.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards,> > > > > > > Lalit.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Sreenadh" > > > > > > > <sreesog@> wrote:> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear All,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The results for Lagna lord in 5th house is discussed > > > below.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==============================================> > > > > > > > Lagna lord in 5th House> > > > > > > > -----------------------------> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be proud an > > > > > individual > > > > > > > with> > > > > > > > much self-respect and reputation and a bit angry but > > > > righteous > > > > > > and > > > > > > > kind.> > > > > > > > He will have children. He may have moderate well-being > > from > > > > > > > children and> > > > > > > > may lose his first child as well, especially if there > is > > > some > > > > > > > malefic> > > > > > > > influence on 5th house. He would be dear to the people > > with > > > > > power > > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > authority. He will have good authority or rulership and > > > will > > > > > > enjoy a> > > > > > > > good eventful and enjoyable life. Bestowed with good > > > > qualities, > > > > > > he > > > > > > > will> > > > > > > > do many good deeds.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be angry; > will > > > have > > > > > > > moderate> > > > > > > > well-being from children. The native will lose his > first > > > > child. > > > > > > He > > > > > > > would> > > > > > > > be a proud individual with much self-respect and > > > reputation. > > > > He > > > > > > > would be> > > > > > > > dear to the king.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Parasara Hora> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why should lagna lord going to 5th make the native an > > angry > > > > and> > > > > > > > aggressive individual? One of the logic behind could > be - > > > 5th > > > > > is > > > > > > 3rd> > > > > > > > from 3rd house; and Upachaya (increase) stana of 3rd > > house. > > > > 3rd > > > > > > > house> > > > > > > > signify anger and possibly that is why lagna lord in > 5th > > > > > > increases > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > anger and agitation of the native. But also not that > 5th > > is > > > > 2nd > > > > > > > house> > > > > > > > from 4th (simple and humble mind) making the native a > > > > straight > > > > > > > forward> > > > > > > > individual. It is also mentioned in the sloka that the > > > native > > > > > > will > > > > > > > lose> > > > > > > > his first child - why? The natural expectation would be > > > that > > > > > > lagna > > > > > > > lord> > > > > > > > in 5th should bestow good results for 5th, thus > providing > > > > > > children > > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > happiness from children to the native. Of course if > lagna > > > > lord > > > > > is > > > > > > > in 5th> > > > > > > > is afflicted by some malefic, then it would have double > > > > impact, > > > > > > > since> > > > > > > > the same would affect both the 5th house and the lagna > > lord > > > > > > > amplifying> > > > > > > > the possibility for bad result. Since 5th could signify > > the > > > > > first > > > > > > > child> > > > > > > > the bad result could be attributed to the first child > as > > > > well. > > > > > > > Actually> > > > > > > > this is what we see mentioned in Meenaraja hora. But > > > Parasara > > > > > > > provides> > > > > > > > no such clue about any required malefic influence in > 5th > > > > house! > > > > > > We > > > > > > > are> > > > > > > > wonder stuck by this derivation, and we fail to imagine > > any > > > > > solid > > > > > > > reason> > > > > > > > behind such a derivation in the absence of any malefic > > > > > influence > > > > > > on > > > > > > > 5th> > > > > > > > house. Another version of the same sloka is available, > > > which > > > > > also> > > > > > > > provides similar results.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be proud; > will > > > have > > > > > > > moderate> > > > > > > > well-being from children. He will lose his first child. > > He > > > > > would > > > > > > be> > > > > > > > angry and will have special privileges in the king's > > place.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Parasara Hora> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Apart from minor differences this sloka gives almost > same > > > > > results > > > > > > as> > > > > > > > above. It seems that, the loss of first child should be > > > > > predicted > > > > > > > only> > > > > > > > if there is a malefic influence in 5th house, since the > > > other > > > > > > > available> > > > > > > > slokas give good results concerning children if lagna > > lord > > > is > > > > > in > > > > > > 5th> > > > > > > > house. [Note that similar to in this sloka Parasara > will > > > not > > > > > > mention> > > > > > > > `if the lagna lord is malefic and placed in x house' in > > many> > > > > > > > other slokas as well. We will encounter this writing > > style > > > > > > related > > > > > > > issue> > > > > > > > in many other instances as well] Let us see what > > Meenaraja > > > > has > > > > > to > > > > > > > say.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th house, the native will have > > > children, > > > > > > > righteous> > > > > > > > and kind. He will have good authority or rulership and > > will > > > > > enjoy > > > > > > a > > > > > > > good> > > > > > > > eventful and enjoyable life. Bestowed with good > > qualities, > > > he > > > > > > will > > > > > > > do> > > > > > > > many good deeds.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Meenaraja Hora> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In one printed version of Meenaraja Hora the word > Suseela > > > is > > > > > > quoted > > > > > > > as> > > > > > > > Sugeeta (Good in singing). Select the proper word based > > on > > > > > actual> > > > > > > > experience observed.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Note that as per Meenaraja lagna lord in 5th `provides > > > > children'> > > > > > > > and does not `destroy children'. Even though Parasara > > only > > > > says> > > > > > > > that `lose of first child could happen', he too does > not > > > say> > > > > > > > that `the native will not have children'. If we combine > > the> > > > > > > > statements of both Parasara and Meenaraja the only > > > conclusion > > > > > we > > > > > > > could> > > > > > > > reach is `The native will have children, but he may > loss > > > his > > > > > first> > > > > > > > child as well'. But it should be noted that the loss of > > > first > > > > > > child> > > > > > > > does not seems to be logically supported in the absence > > of > > > > > malefic> > > > > > > > influence on 5th house - this was my initial inference. > > (An > > > > > > > amendment is> > > > > > > > proposed later) The sloka provided by Hora Pradeepam is > > > > almost > > > > > > the > > > > > > > same> > > > > > > > as that of Meenaraja.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th house, the native will have > > > children, > > > > > > > righteous> > > > > > > > and kind. He will have good authority or rulership and > > will > > > > > enjoy > > > > > > a > > > > > > > good> > > > > > > > eventful and happy life. Bestowed with good qualities, > he > > > > will > > > > > do > > > > > > > many> > > > > > > > good deeds.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Hora Pradeepam> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parasara says that Lagna lord in 5th would make the > > native > > > > > angry -> > > > > > > > > > > > > why?> > > > > > > > Clearly any direct logic is not visible. Sun is the > > natural > > > > > > > significator> > > > > > > > of Lagna. If we are considering lagna lord in 5th as > > > similar > > > > to > > > > > > sun > > > > > > > in> > > > > > > > 5th, then the above derivation would be justified and > > > > possibly > > > > > > the > > > > > > > lose> > > > > > > > of first child as well. But is it a correct approach? I > > am > > > > > > doubtful.> > > > > > > > Only verifying the actual results from charts with > > similar > > > > > > > combination> > > > > > > > can shed some light on this issue.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rule 5: Lagna lord in any house should be treated > similar > > > to > > > > > Sun > > > > > > in > > > > > > > that> > > > > > > > house, since Sun is the natural significator of Lagna.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am a bit doubtful about the validity of the above > rule. > > > If > > > > not> > > > > > > > supported by actual results it is better to ignore the > > > above > > > > > > rule. > > > > > > > The> > > > > > > > logic supplied till now does not seem to be capable > > enough > > > to> > > > > > > > satisfactorily explain the strong results proposed by > > > > Parasara > > > > > > such > > > > > > > as -> > > > > > > > Lagna lord in 5th causing the loss of first child; it > > will > > > > also > > > > > > > make the> > > > > > > > native an angry individual. There should be some other > > > logic > > > > as > > > > > > > well.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On retrospect we feel that - Parasara will not say > > > something > > > > > > > without a> > > > > > > > sold reason. Why should he bring planets base result > (e.g.> > > > > > > > benefic/malefic) into it, when he was dealing with > House > > > base> > > > > > > > prediction? That is not logical. There could be some > > other > > > in-> > > > > > depth> > > > > > > > reason. Yes, you are right - there is. Let us analyze > all > > > the > > > > > > > possible> > > > > > > > houses and lagna lord in their fifth house, and check > > > whether > > > > > the > > > > > > > same> > > > > > > > can cause the loss of child -> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) Aries lagna, lagna lord Mars in Leo: Yes, Leo is a > > sign > > > > > > > signifying> > > > > > > > less children, and Mars a malefic in it can indicate > loss > > > of > > > > > > child > > > > > > > for> > > > > > > > sure.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Taurus lagna, lagna lord Venus in Virgo: Virgo is > the > > > > > > > debilitation> > > > > > > > sign for Venus. Also not that Venus owns the lordship > of > > > 6th > > > > > > house > > > > > > > as> > > > > > > > well. Thus for sure for Taurus lagna Venus in 5th can > > > > indicate > > > > > > loss > > > > > > > of> > > > > > > > child for sure.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) Gemini lagna, lagna lord Me in Libra: Note that > Venus > > > the > > > > > lord > > > > > > of> > > > > > > > Libra owns the 12th house (house indicating death) as > > well. > > > > > > > Possibly the> > > > > > > > combination can indicate loss or death.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4) Cancer lagna, Moon in Scorpio: Scorpio is the > > > debilitation > > > > > > sign > > > > > > > for> > > > > > > > Moon. Ofcourse the same can indicate the loss of child.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5) Leo lagna, Sun in Sagittarius: Note that the lord of > > > > > > Sagittarius> > > > > > > > Jupiter owns the 8th house (death) as well. Thus > > certainly > > > the> > > > > > > > combination can indicate the loss or death of child.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6) Virgo lagna, Me in Capricorn: The lord of Capricorn > > > Saturn > > > > > > owns > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > 6th house as well. Possibly the combination can > indicate > > > bad > > > > > > results> > > > > > > > such as loss of child - amended by the fact that both > > > Mercury > > > > > and > > > > > > > Saturn> > > > > > > > are imbecile planets.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 7) Libra lagna, Venus in Aquarius: Note that lagna lord > > > Venus > > > > > is > > > > > > > also> > > > > > > > the 8th lord. Certainly 8th lord is a malefic, and a > > > malefic > > > > > > placed > > > > > > > in> > > > > > > > 5th can indicate lose of child.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you continue this analysis, you could see that for > > most > > > of > > > > > the > > > > > > 12> > > > > > > > signs, lagna lord placed in 5th can indicate the loss > of > > > > child, > > > > > > even> > > > > > > > though the same does not match perfectly for Aquarius > and > > > > > Pisces > > > > > > > Lagna.> > > > > > > > Thus it becomes clear that Parasara was not making a > > > > statement > > > > > > > without> > > > > > > > base or without understanding. His derivation sprung > from > > > the > > > > > deep> > > > > > > > understanding that `for all the 12 signs, lagna lord in > > 5th > > > > is > > > > > not> > > > > > > > favorably placed, and this can be crystallized into the > > > brief > > > > > > > statement> > > > > > > > - lagna lord in 5th can indicate bad results such as -> > loss > > > > of > > > > > > first> > > > > > > > child and anger'. Then is it that Meenaraja was wrong > and > > > > > Parasara> > > > > > > > was right? No, it is not so. Meenaraja was deriving a > > > result > > > > > > based > > > > > > > on> > > > > > > > the prime condition – Lagna lord in 5th alone. For this > > > prime> > > > > > > > combination Meenaraja's derivation is absolutely right. > > But> > > > > > > > Parasara's amendment springs from his deep > understanding > > of > > > > the> > > > > > > > zodiac. He knew that the general statement regarding > > lagna > > > > lord > > > > > > in > > > > > > > other> > > > > > > > houses may not be completely true for lagna lord in > 5th, > > > due > > > > to> > > > > > > > essential mutually co-related nature of the signs > itself. > > > So > > > > > his > > > > > > > opinion> > > > > > > > would be, `Yes, Meenaraja is right. But you know the > > Signs > > > in> > > > > > > > Zodiac, they have some specific connection to death as > > far > > > as > > > > > 5th > > > > > > > house> > > > > > > > is concerned. So your general derivation as proposed by > > > > > Meenaraja > > > > > > > will> > > > > > > > not work in this case. Consider this special nature of > > 5th > > > > from > > > > > > all > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > signs and modify your derivation accordingly. The you > > will > > > > see > > > > > > that,> > > > > > > > lagna lord in 5th can signify many bad results such as > > loss > > > > of > > > > > > first> > > > > > > > child and anger'. It must be this deeper understanding > > which> > > > > > > > prompted Parasara to suggest such a result. Yes, > > Meenaraja > > > is > > > > > > > right, but> > > > > > > > Parasara is also not off the mark. Meenaraja is > concerned > > > > with > > > > > the> > > > > > > > general logic of the derivation only, but Parasara goes > > > > deeper > > > > > in > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > general zodiacal context. Note it - possibly in other > > > > > situations > > > > > > as > > > > > > > well> > > > > > > > the same could be the case - Parasara has a better > > > > > understanding > > > > > > > about> > > > > > > > the zodiacal context, and may mix it with general > result > > > > > > > derivation. His> > > > > > > > thought and understanding penetrates into deaths; and > is > > > more > > > > > far > > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > wide. He is not depended on mere logic alone - he is > more > > > > > > > practical. It> > > > > > > > is because of this in-depth understanding; Parasara is > > > termed > > > > a > > > > > > > sage,> > > > > > > > but Meenaraja a king, a scholar.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But even this understanding of Parasara view does not > > does > > > > not > > > > > > > allow me> > > > > > > > to pardon him - because here to derive the result he > > mixed > > > > the > > > > > > > methods> > > > > > > > of Sign-House Base result derivation, while dealing > with > > > > House > > > > > > Base> > > > > > > > result derivation - causing confusion to the learner. I > > > would > > > > > > > suggest> > > > > > > > that, in this context, the beginners should stick to > the > > > > > cleaner > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > systematic approach proposed by Meenaraja, while trying > > to > > > > > master > > > > > > > House> > > > > > > > Base result derivation technique. The deeper > > possibilities > > > and> > > > > > > > modification to the suggested results should dealt with > > and > > > > > > > understood,> > > > > > > > while trying to learn Sign-House Base result derivation > > > > > technique.> > > > > > > > The 5th house signifies things such as - children, > > > > intelligence,> > > > > > > > creativity, genius, stomach, belly, ministers, secret > > hymns > > > > > > recited > > > > > > > etc.> > > > > > > > Thus the placement of lagna lord in 5th generates > special > > > > > > > importance to> > > > > > > > the derivations related to the same.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Extract from:> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh/> > > > > > > La\> > > > > > > > gna%20lord%20in%20Various%20Houses.pdf> > > > > > > > ==============================================> > > > > > > > Love,> > > > > > > > Sreenadh> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >> Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger. 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Guest guest Posted September 28, 2007 Report Share Posted September 28, 2007 yes!Prathamesn Chawan <upaoakcrest wrote: Moon in 5th house and you have boys ... no girls ? Hmm... interesting... Best Wishes Jagdishzhar bird <blagomot > wrote: My lagna lord is Moon in the 5th house.I had 2 abortions prior to birth of my only son, who also would have died if surgery was not performed on him when he was only 6 weeks old.I certainly hope, my boys will have a long life, as I love him so.I was never called an angree or self-centered person, and I cannot possibly see it in me either. But, of course, this is not my call to make.I am fairly ambitious, but i am much more into being a good mother to my child and into enjoying my life to the fullest.Please, don't forget that 5th is the house of children (including your inner child), creativity and fun!javed khaanzada <javed_khaanzada > wrote: Dear Lalit and Srinadh ji, As in Parasar Hora stated: If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be angry; will have moderate well-being from children. The native will lose his first child. He would be a proud individual with much self-respect and reputation. He would be dear to the king. Mine lagna lord is Mars,which is placed in 5th house in my lagna chart.When my wife was in 3rd month of pregnancy,she had a miss carriage in 1993,it was our first baby,after that we have four children,quite healthy. Regds-javed litsol <mlalit wrote: Dear Srinadh,Leave it, I m not part of ur show, where u r the only script writer, director, actor, viewer and even the stage is your's.I had an impression that this is a open group where a collective learning may emerge to make astrology more advanced more effective but, I feel i was wrong in my understanding, you w'd never accept ur shortcomings and w'd never take inputs from members. so i drop it.u make ur rules for ur convenience sake, act on ur rules as per ur convenience and you teach rules to others as per ur conveniince and define liberty from rules as per ur convenience.when i saw ur post, instinctively, without thinking much about subsequent consequences, happen to respond to you, which will never be there, i m a I m a easy going man, open minded person.I have no objection, carry on ur show, i m silent.regards,Lalit. , "Sreenadh" <sreesog wrote:>> Dear Lalit ji,> The questions in articles are -> * Guidance to think.> * They are part of the process of thinking > * They are not demanding, requesting and asking someone to come and > give a ready made answer, such as "Perhaps u have not checked malefic > influence on 5'th house with horoscopes... and I will teach you the > remedy, the correct results and the method to be followed"; know that > it is to motivate thinking; it is to motivate more fuel to the fire > with in; to guide others and me to learn to think itself - > systematically; in the way astrology demands! Note that 7-fold method > is a "Thought Tool", a methodology for thinking. With a peaceful mind > think about it - and you will see what I mean. > What the questions you present in your own writeups/articles - you > will what I mean.> ==>> > if ur post is only house specific why u raise such questions and > > then try to find answers, > <==> I hope the above section clarifies this. The post was 'house > specific' that too is right.> ==>> > u urself asked the question in ur post - "Why should lagna > > lord going to 5th make the native an angry and aggressive > > individual" and tried to understand the reason> <== > Yes, I did raise that question and tried to answer it - because that > was a result derived by Parasara and I was thinking about the logic > behind it; Certainly that is related to 'House Base' derivation, and > not related to anything else. > Did you tried to think and find an answer to that question? Did you > checked the same in some example horoscopes and found that it doesn't > work? > Now let us come to your comment on the same -> Comment -1> ==>> > If u r doing a commentary on the ancient classics, ur approach is > > right and there is lot to learn from such writings, but as > > far as learning is concerned, more urge to study and dissect the > > obsecure cases is required.> <==> What do you mean by 'obscure cases'? Do you mean example horoscopes? > The do it yourself - and present the results! That is the way to go - > an a research approach, and we too would be benefited by that; go > ahead and do it! Note that the above statement by you lacks even the > basic understanding that "the article was dealing with House Base > result derivation, and that too about LL in 5th"! > Comment -2> ==>> > same way, 5'th has connection to 11'th house, the house of gains, > > this combination of lagna lord's placement in 5'th house > > makes a person too much ambitious, self cenetered, he is self > > promting so should be aggressive coz his rise is his main objective > > of the life. This is what i observed.> <==> Yah, that is good logic - and a good suggestion. But note the last > statement "This is what i observed"! We all know that you started > learning astrology before 5 months only. Of course you are a smart > learner, and has good logic, (I appreciate that, and happy about it). > Considering the above facts, possibly if it was something like -"This > is a better logical derivation I feel", it would have been more > pleasant. Even if you have "observed" such combinations - your > time span of 5 months is not even enough to complete the training > period and clear the testing phase! :=)> Lalit ji, don't take all these comments personally - I love you very > much, and know well that it is rare to find such a good potential. > But don't do the mistake becoming a teacher; don't do the mistake of > becoming a teacher - your experience and knowledge is not enough for > that; I have at least 8 years experience as a professional > astrologer, but still I am a learner and yet to become a teacher; I > don't think in near future it would be possible as well; thus the > fact is there are no teachers in this group; and never can be. > We are all fellow students here - even though the amount of > knowledge may vary a bit from individual to individual; that is not > much important. But learning to be a learner, and being a learner, > and accepting that i am a learner and that my knowledge is limited -> IS important. We simply don't have answers to everything - and never > can be. > Be with me brother and give a bit credit for being elder... > Love and Hugs,> Sreenadh> > , "Sreenadh" > <sreesog@> wrote:> >> > Dear Lalit ji,> > Are you noticing that we are deviating from the subject? Present > > your views on Lagna lord in 5th in a well written way (In similar > > discussions - Baquya ji does it - he is good; Srinivas ji does it; > > Sunil Does it; RK ji does it; similarly many more members) and I > will > > love to see the same - whether it be from experience or from Logic. > > Second, I am NOT teaching anybody - but learning and presenting > > systematically - of course my experience as an astrologer, and of > the > > books would be useful in that effort. But never expect or feel that > I > > am teaching - I am NOT. Everybody learns by themselves. Everybody > > should try to present there sincere "understandingabout the > > subject under discussion" with clarity. There is NO Teacher-> Learner, > > Master-Disciple here; But only learners - all members present in > this > > group are humble learners of the astrological wisdom presented by > > sages. I am a learner a student of them, and NOT a teacher to > anyone. > > Please understand this.> > Love,> > Sreenadh> > > > , "litsol" > > <mlalit@> wrote:> > >> > > Dear Srinadh,> > > > > > Do u mean, If u r not clear somewhere or u r missing something > and > > > someone points out to the mising point, he himself lacks the > > > understanding, very good approach, sorry to interrupt this time, > > now > > > onwards will never try to correct you. > > > > > > However,u urself asked the question in ur post - "Why should > lagna > > > lord going to 5th make the native an angry and aggressive > > > individual" and tried to understand the reason, if ur post is > only > > > house specific why u raise such questions and then try to find > > > answers, simply i thuoght to correct ur effort with my > > understanding > > > but ur attitude is very different,So much inclination in teaching > > is > > > affecting ur's learning only.> > > > > > > > > regards,> > > Lalit> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Sreenadh" > > > <sreesog@> wrote:> > > >> > > > Dear Lalit ji,> > > > Malefic effect in 5th causing many troubles is a known fact to > > all > > > > astrologers - no explanation is needed on the same. Knowing > what > > > > those troubles are, needs considering a lot of other > parameters. > > > > Deriving the details - which uses several methodologies such as > > > > Bhavat Bhava Chinta, Karkat Bhava chinta, considering other > > > > combinations - know that there is a big distance to go and it > is > > > not > > > > that simple. > > > > What we are doing here is not trying to reach some inflexible > > > > conclusion; or to analyze someone's horoscope; but to see to > what > > > > extend the slokas on 'House Base' derivation technique can > point > > > to. > > > > Try to understand things in the context they are. > > > > When you are trying your own bit of logic in something - > present > > > it > > > > that way; Instead of saying this is right or that is wrong, or > > > > somewhere else is the crux. Present - as per your logic you > think > > > it > > > > could be so and so. (Don't bring in I have seen such and such > in > > > some > > > > horoscope and so let us discuss that horoscope strategy as > well - > > > > that is not the way. If the same combination is present in some > > > known > > > > horoscope - the combination alone can be considered for > > > verification, > > > > and other feature or details of that horoscope should be > > neglected. > > > > We should stick to the context and the method of study). Loss > can > > > > mean many things - > > > > * It could be abortion> > > > * It could untimely death of son at a later age (as in the > case > > of > > > > Indira Gandhi)> > > > * It could be a missing son Or there could be many other > > > > possibilities as well.> > > > Neither the sloka nor we are going in to that details - > instead > > > what > > > > we are doing is 'Trying to learn the logical background and > > > concepts > > > > used in House Base derivation by the sages; and thus trying to > > > master > > > > that technique' - know this well. > > > > ==>> > > > > there are chances for the entire hard work to be confined to > > mere > > > > > translation of some shlokas, which i think, is certainly not > > the > > > > > objective.> > > > <== > > > > Clearly the above words come from lack of understanding of > > > objective > > > > and strategy, of this group. Please check -> > > > * The previous mails on the same thread> > > > * The files in the files folder dealing with similar things > > (i.e. > > > > Articles related to 7-fold result derivation technique of > > astrology)> > > > * Thus instead of starting afresh were you land yourself in > the > > > > forum, create a background to deal with the subject in hand, > > > > systematically.> > > > Note: The document regarding "Lagna lord in various houses was > > > there > > > > in file section for many days, and mails about file uploading > > goes > > > to > > > > every member, the main thread of discussion is on the same; but > > > alas! > > > > the never read or refer to such files and instead depend on the > > > > posted mails alone! No serious learner who approach astrology > > > > shouldn't follow such a method. He should download and study > them > > > > before putting in his bit - and that SHOULD BE a well thought > out > > > > one - depicting his sincerity and earnest effort to understand > > and > > > > learn the path shown by the sages". Whether such a view matches > > > with > > > > mine or not is irrelevant. But the contribution should be > > valuable -> > > > > > > coming out from research, experience and effort.> > > > Hope the confusion is clarified.> > > > Love and Hugs,> > > > Sreenadh> > > > > > > > , "litsol" > > > > <mlalit@> wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Dear Srinadh,> > > > > > > > > > Pls. tell where i m wrong in finding such shortcomings in > what > > u > > > > > tried to derive and explain after the translation, in fact, i > > > saw, > > > > u > > > > > urself tried to understand what is missing, struggled a lot, > > but > > > > just > > > > > stopped before touching the crux, a gap remained is to cover > > up. > > > > > > > > > > I suggested something for the betterment only.> > > > > > > > > > loss doesn't mean death, it may be girl child, it may be > > hopeless > > > > > child, it may be a child with poor health, we need to be more > > > > specific> > > > > while deriving the results and explaining them to group.> > > > > > > > > > be admissive and keep a holistic approach so that a right > > > learning > > > > > approach could be developed having inputs from every one, > > > > otherwise, > > > > > there are chances for the entire hardwork to be confined to > > mere > > > > > translation of some shlokas, which i think, is certainly not > > the > > > > > objective.> > > > > > > > > > if u mind and dont consider what u r told, i have no business > > to > > > > > interrupt you, u can move on ur ways.> > > > > > > > > > regards,> > > > > Lalit.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Sreenadh" > > > > > <sreesog@> wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > Dear Lalit ji,> > > > > > Did you ever been an astrologer? I think not. Just simply > > > learn!> > > > > > Love,> > > > > > Sreenadh> > > > > > > > > > > > , "litsol" > > > > > > <mlalit@> wrote:> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Dear Srinadh,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Perhapse u have not checked malific influence on 5'th > house > > > > with > > > > > > > horoscopes,However, i appreciate ur efforts to understand > > the > > > > > > > consequences of 5'th house as well as lagna lord's > > placement > > > in > > > > > > 5'th > > > > > > > house.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > A malific influence in 5'th does not always lead to loss > of > > > the > > > > > > first > > > > > > > child, this placement sometimes give girl child, death of > > > child > > > > > is > > > > > > an > > > > > > > extreme result which happens in cases of extreme > > malificance. > > > I > > > > > > > remember once u said during discussion of BB that 4'th > > house > > > > may > > > > > > > denote loss of child, if 4'th there are other house as > well > > > as > > > > > with > > > > > > > reference to 5'th house.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > If u r doing a commentary on the ancient classics, ur > > > approach > > > > is > > > > > > > right and there is lot to learn from such writings, but > as > > > far > > > > as > > > > > > > learning is concerned, more urge to study and dissect the > > > > > obsecure > > > > > > > cases is required.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > same way, 5'th has connection to 11'th house, the house > of > > > > gains, > > > > > > > this combination of lagna lord's placement in 5'th house > > > makes > > > > a > > > > > > > person too much ambitious, self cenetered, he is self > > > promting > > > > so > > > > > > > should be aggressive coz his rise is his main objective > of > > > the > > > > > life.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is what i observed.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards,> > > > > > > Lalit.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Sreenadh" > > > > > > > <sreesog@> wrote:> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear All,> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The results for Lagna lord in 5th house is discussed > > > below.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==============================================> > > > > > > > Lagna lord in 5th House> > > > > > > > -----------------------------> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be proud an > > > > > individual > > > > > > > with> > > > > > > > much self-respect and reputation and a bit angry but > > > > righteous > > > > > > and > > > > > > > kind.> > > > > > > > He will have children. He may have moderate well-being > > from > > > > > > > children and> > > > > > > > may lose his first child as well, especially if there > is > > > some > > > > > > > malefic> > > > > > > > influence on 5th house. He would be dear to the people > > with > > > > > power > > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > authority. He will have good authority or rulership and > > > will > > > > > > enjoy a> > > > > > > > good eventful and enjoyable life. Bestowed with good > > > > qualities, > > > > > > he > > > > > > > will> > > > > > > > do many good deeds.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be angry; > will > > > have > > > > > > > moderate> > > > > > > > well-being from children. The native will lose his > first > > > > child. > > > > > > He > > > > > > > would> > > > > > > > be a proud individual with much self-respect and > > > reputation. > > > > He > > > > > > > would be> > > > > > > > dear to the king.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Parasara Hora> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why should lagna lord going to 5th make the native an > > angry > > > > and> > > > > > > > aggressive individual? One of the logic behind could > be - > > > 5th > > > > > is > > > > > > 3rd> > > > > > > > from 3rd house; and Upachaya (increase) stana of 3rd > > house. > > > > 3rd > > > > > > > house> > > > > > > > signify anger and possibly that is why lagna lord in > 5th > > > > > > increases > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > anger and agitation of the native. But also not that > 5th > > is > > > > 2nd > > > > > > > house> > > > > > > > from 4th (simple and humble mind) making the native a > > > > straight > > > > > > > forward> > > > > > > > individual. It is also mentioned in the sloka that the > > > native > > > > > > will > > > > > > > lose> > > > > > > > his first child - why? The natural expectation would be > > > that > > > > > > lagna > > > > > > > lord> > > > > > > > in 5th should bestow good results for 5th, thus > providing > > > > > > children > > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > happiness from children to the native. Of course if > lagna > > > > lord > > > > > is > > > > > > > in 5th> > > > > > > > is afflicted by some malefic, then it would have double > > > > impact, > > > > > > > since> > > > > > > > the same would affect both the 5th house and the lagna > > lord > > > > > > > amplifying> > > > > > > > the possibility for bad result. Since 5th could signify > > the > > > > > first > > > > > > > child> > > > > > > > the bad result could be attributed to the first child > as > > > > well. > > > > > > > Actually> > > > > > > > this is what we see mentioned in Meenaraja hora. But > > > Parasara > > > > > > > provides> > > > > > > > no such clue about any required malefic influence in > 5th > > > > house! > > > > > > We > > > > > > > are> > > > > > > > wonder stuck by this derivation, and we fail to imagine > > any > > > > > solid > > > > > > > reason> > > > > > > > behind such a derivation in the absence of any malefic > > > > > influence > > > > > > on > > > > > > > 5th> > > > > > > > house. Another version of the same sloka is available, > > > which > > > > > also> > > > > > > > provides similar results.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be proud; > will > > > have > > > > > > > moderate> > > > > > > > well-being from children. He will lose his first child. > > He > > > > > would > > > > > > be> > > > > > > > angry and will have special privileges in the king's > > place.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Parasara Hora> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Apart from minor differences this sloka gives almost > same > > > > > results > > > > > > as> > > > > > > > above. It seems that, the loss of first child should be > > > > > predicted > > > > > > > only> > > > > > > > if there is a malefic influence in 5th house, since the > > > other > > > > > > > available> > > > > > > > slokas give good results concerning children if lagna > > lord > > > is > > > > > in > > > > > > 5th> > > > > > > > house. [Note that similar to in this sloka Parasara > will > > > not > > > > > > mention> > > > > > > > `if the lagna lord is malefic and placed in x house' in > > many> > > > > > > > other slokas as well. We will encounter this writing > > style > > > > > > related > > > > > > > issue> > > > > > > > in many other instances as well] Let us see what > > Meenaraja > > > > has > > > > > to > > > > > > > say.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th house, the native will have > > > children, > > > > > > > righteous> > > > > > > > and kind. He will have good authority or rulership and > > will > > > > > enjoy > > > > > > a > > > > > > > good> > > > > > > > eventful and enjoyable life. Bestowed with good > > qualities, > > > he > > > > > > will > > > > > > > do> > > > > > > > many good deeds.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Meenaraja Hora> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In one printed version of Meenaraja Hora the word > Suseela > > > is > > > > > > quoted > > > > > > > as> > > > > > > > Sugeeta (Good in singing). Select the proper word based > > on > > > > > actual> > > > > > > > experience observed.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Note that as per Meenaraja lagna lord in 5th `provides > > > > children'> > > > > > > > and does not `destroy children'. Even though Parasara > > only > > > > says> > > > > > > > that `lose of first child could happen', he too does > not > > > say> > > > > > > > that `the native will not have children'. If we combine > > the> > > > > > > > statements of both Parasara and Meenaraja the only > > > conclusion > > > > > we > > > > > > > could> > > > > > > > reach is `The native will have children, but he may > loss > > > his > > > > > first> > > > > > > > child as well'. But it should be noted that the loss of > > > first > > > > > > child> > > > > > > > does not seems to be logically supported in the absence > > of > > > > > malefic> > > > > > > > influence on 5th house - this was my initial inference. > > (An > > > > > > > amendment is> > > > > > > > proposed later) The sloka provided by Hora Pradeepam is > > > > almost > > > > > > the > > > > > > > same> > > > > > > > as that of Meenaraja.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th house, the native will have > > > children, > > > > > > > righteous> > > > > > > > and kind. He will have good authority or rulership and > > will > > > > > enjoy > > > > > > a > > > > > > > good> > > > > > > > eventful and happy life. Bestowed with good qualities, > he > > > > will > > > > > do > > > > > > > many> > > > > > > > good deeds.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Hora Pradeepam> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parasara says that Lagna lord in 5th would make the > > native > > > > > angry -> > > > > > > > > > > > > why?> > > > > > > > Clearly any direct logic is not visible. Sun is the > > natural > > > > > > > significator> > > > > > > > of Lagna. If we are considering lagna lord in 5th as > > > similar > > > > to > > > > > > sun > > > > > > > in> > > > > > > > 5th, then the above derivation would be justified and > > > > possibly > > > > > > the > > > > > > > lose> > > > > > > > of first child as well. But is it a correct approach? I > > am > > > > > > doubtful.> > > > > > > > Only verifying the actual results from charts with > > similar > > > > > > > combination> > > > > > > > can shed some light on this issue.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rule 5: Lagna lord in any house should be treated > similar > > > to > > > > > Sun > > > > > > in > > > > > > > that> > > > > > > > house, since Sun is the natural significator of Lagna.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am a bit doubtful about the validity of the above > rule. > > > If > > > > not> > > > > > > > supported by actual results it is better to ignore the > > > above > > > > > > rule. > > > > > > > The> > > > > > > > logic supplied till now does not seem to be capable > > enough > > > to> > > > > > > > satisfactorily explain the strong results proposed by > > > > Parasara > > > > > > such > > > > > > > as -> > > > > > > > Lagna lord in 5th causing the loss of first child; it > > will > > > > also > > > > > > > make the> > > > > > > > native an angry individual. There should be some other > > > logic > > > > as > > > > > > > well.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On retrospect we feel that - Parasara will not say > > > something > > > > > > > without a> > > > > > > > sold reason. Why should he bring planets base result > (e.g.> > > > > > > > benefic/malefic) into it, when he was dealing with > House > > > base> > > > > > > > prediction? That is not logical. There could be some > > other > > > in-> > > > > > depth> > > > > > > > reason. Yes, you are right - there is. Let us analyze > all > > > the > > > > > > > possible> > > > > > > > houses and lagna lord in their fifth house, and check > > > whether > > > > > the > > > > > > > same> > > > > > > > can cause the loss of child -> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) Aries lagna, lagna lord Mars in Leo: Yes, Leo is a > > sign > > > > > > > signifying> > > > > > > > less children, and Mars a malefic in it can indicate > loss > > > of > > > > > > child > > > > > > > for> > > > > > > > sure.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Taurus lagna, lagna lord Venus in Virgo: Virgo is > the > > > > > > > debilitation> > > > > > > > sign for Venus. Also not that Venus owns the lordship > of > > > 6th > > > > > > house > > > > > > > as> > > > > > > > well. Thus for sure for Taurus lagna Venus in 5th can > > > > indicate > > > > > > loss > > > > > > > of> > > > > > > > child for sure.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) Gemini lagna, lagna lord Me in Libra: Note that > Venus > > > the > > > > > lord > > > > > > of> > > > > > > > Libra owns the 12th house (house indicating death) as > > well. > > > > > > > Possibly the> > > > > > > > combination can indicate loss or death.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4) Cancer lagna, Moon in Scorpio: Scorpio is the > > > debilitation > > > > > > sign > > > > > > > for> > > > > > > > Moon. Ofcourse the same can indicate the loss of child.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5) Leo lagna, Sun in Sagittarius: Note that the lord of > > > > > > Sagittarius> > > > > > > > Jupiter owns the 8th house (death) as well. Thus > > certainly > > > the> > > > > > > > combination can indicate the loss or death of child.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6) Virgo lagna, Me in Capricorn: The lord of Capricorn > > > Saturn > > > > > > owns > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > 6th house as well. Possibly the combination can > indicate > > > bad > > > > > > results> > > > > > > > such as loss of child - amended by the fact that both > > > Mercury > > > > > and > > > > > > > Saturn> > > > > > > > are imbecile planets.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 7) Libra lagna, Venus in Aquarius: Note that lagna lord > > > Venus > > > > > is > > > > > > > also> > > > > > > > the 8th lord. Certainly 8th lord is a malefic, and a > > > malefic > > > > > > placed > > > > > > > in> > > > > > > > 5th can indicate lose of child.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you continue this analysis, you could see that for > > most > > > of > > > > > the > > > > > > 12> > > > > > > > signs, lagna lord placed in 5th can indicate the loss > of > > > > child, > > > > > > even> > > > > > > > though the same does not match perfectly for Aquarius > and > > > > > Pisces > > > > > > > Lagna.> > > > > > > > Thus it becomes clear that Parasara was not making a > > > > statement > > > > > > > without> > > > > > > > base or without understanding. His derivation sprung > from > > > the > > > > > deep> > > > > > > > understanding that `for all the 12 signs, lagna lord in > > 5th > > > > is > > > > > not> > > > > > > > favorably placed, and this can be crystallized into the > > > brief > > > > > > > statement> > > > > > > > - lagna lord in 5th can indicate bad results such as -> > loss > > > > of > > > > > > first> > > > > > > > child and anger'. Then is it that Meenaraja was wrong > and > > > > > Parasara> > > > > > > > was right? No, it is not so. Meenaraja was deriving a > > > result > > > > > > based > > > > > > > on> > > > > > > > the prime condition – Lagna lord in 5th alone. For this > > > prime> > > > > > > > combination Meenaraja's derivation is absolutely right. > > But> > > > > > > > Parasara's amendment springs from his deep > understanding > > of > > > > the> > > > > > > > zodiac. He knew that the general statement regarding > > lagna > > > > lord > > > > > > in > > > > > > > other> > > > > > > > houses may not be completely true for lagna lord in > 5th, > > > due > > > > to> > > > > > > > essential mutually co-related nature of the signs > itself. > > > So > > > > > his > > > > > > > opinion> > > > > > > > would be, `Yes, Meenaraja is right. But you know the > > Signs > > > in> > > > > > > > Zodiac, they have some specific connection to death as > > far > > > as > > > > > 5th > > > > > > > house> > > > > > > > is concerned. So your general derivation as proposed by > > > > > Meenaraja > > > > > > > will> > > > > > > > not work in this case. Consider this special nature of > > 5th > > > > from > > > > > > all > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > signs and modify your derivation accordingly. The you > > will > > > > see > > > > > > that,> > > > > > > > lagna lord in 5th can signify many bad results such as > > loss > > > > of > > > > > > first> > > > > > > > child and anger'. It must be this deeper understanding > > which> > > > > > > > prompted Parasara to suggest such a result. Yes, > > Meenaraja > > > is > > > > > > > right, but> > > > > > > > Parasara is also not off the mark. Meenaraja is > concerned > > > > with > > > > > the> > > > > > > > general logic of the derivation only, but Parasara goes > > > > deeper > > > > > in > > > > > > > the> > > > > > > > general zodiacal context. Note it - possibly in other > > > > > situations > > > > > > as > > > > > > > well> > > > > > > > the same could be the case - Parasara has a better > > > > > understanding > > > > > > > about> > > > > > > > the zodiacal context, and may mix it with general > result > > > > > > > derivation. His> > > > > > > > thought and understanding penetrates into deaths; and > is > > > more > > > > > far > > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > wide. He is not depended on mere logic alone - he is > more > > > > > > > practical. It> > > > > > > > is because of this in-depth understanding; Parasara is > > > termed > > > > a > > > > > > > sage,> > > > > > > > but Meenaraja a king, a scholar.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But even this understanding of Parasara view does not > > does > > > > not > > > > > > > allow me> > > > > > > > to pardon him - because here to derive the result he > > mixed > > > > the > > > > > > > methods> > > > > > > > of Sign-House Base result derivation, while dealing > with > > > > House > > > > > > Base> > > > > > > > result derivation - causing confusion to the learner. I > > > would > > > > > > > suggest> > > > > > > > that, in this context, the beginners should stick to > the > > > > > cleaner > > > > > > and> > > > > > > > systematic approach proposed by Meenaraja, while trying > > to > > > > > master > > > > > > > House> > > > > > > > Base result derivation technique. The deeper > > possibilities > > > and> > > > > > > > modification to the suggested results should dealt with > > and > > > > > > > understood,> > > > > > > > while trying to learn Sign-House Base result derivation > > > > > technique.> > > > > > > > The 5th house signifies things such as - children, > > > > intelligence,> > > > > > > > creativity, genius, stomach, belly, ministers, secret > > hymns > > > > > > recited > > > > > > > etc.> > > > > > > > Thus the placement of lagna lord in 5th generates > special > > > > > > > importance to> > > > > > > > the derivations related to the same.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Extract from:> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh/> > > > > > > La\> > > > > > > > gna%20lord%20in%20Various%20Houses.pdf> > > > > > > > ==============================================> > > > > > > > Love,> > > > > > > > Sreenadh> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >> Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger. 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Guest guest Posted September 28, 2007 Report Share Posted September 28, 2007 Hare ramakrishna dear renu ji , Females are more immune and strong to resist any diseases may be rishis conveying this message .And lalit is speaking from his experince of the charts he has seen .I dont think purposeful offence involved here. See any species females are more than males ,I think if birth control meausres and gender determination techniqs may be this theorey may not work in humans. And lord siva has given half f his body to his better half and he become ardha nariswara ,so we surely assume that rishis were not thinking the way we r thinking but our launage has descriptionsies and we hav passed tru various times in history .It is mainly the extentinal attacks and subsequent plundering has contributed to it. with regrds sunil nair om shreem mahalaxmai namah. , "renunw" <renunw wrote:>> > Dear Sunil ji,> > I am glad if it is so and I do apologize if I had made a mistake. I > am sure he did not intentionally mean to insult...> > Anyway I don't think it was a language problem. What he wrote was > that afflicted LL in 5H could lead to a birth of a girl child, a > sick child, a hopeless child and so on. So it is obvious that he has > put 'girl child' also to the same category as any other handicapped > or unfortunate child. Don't you think it is unfair to do so? Why > can't then an afflicted LL in 5H could give birth to a 'boy child'? > A healthy girl is as good as a healthy boy. A girl is not born as a > result of affliction to child giving houses!!!> > blessings> > Renu> > , "sunil nair" > astro_tellerkerala@ wrote:> >> > > > Hare ramakrishna,> > > > dear renu ji ,> > > > lalit will not insult a female because she born as > female .I> > know personaly him and is a great devotee of holi mother ,such a> > persons cannot humilate a woman according to the tradition.> > > > Only it was a laungage problem came in while writing the post> > > > rgds sunil nair> > > > om shreem mahalaxmai namah.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "renunw" <renunw@>> > wrote:> > >> > > > Dear Lalit ji,> > >> > > > "loss doesn't mean death, it may be girl child, it may be > hopeless> > > > child, it may be a child with poor health, "> > >> > >> > > Please kindly note that the above statement by you is absurd and> > > insulting. Do you consider a girl born is as similar as a > hopeless> > > child?> > > Or similar to a child with poor health? I am sure this has > nothing to> > > do with gender but may be I agree with your other suggestions.> > >> > > This is the 21st century and gone are the days of the male > dominant> > > society. Don't you have a mother, a sister, a wife or a > daughter? Do> > > you think your mother was born to this world as a result of a > malefic> > > influence on the lagna lord placed in the 5H of her mother's> > horoscope?> > >> > >> > > I am sorry to write like this...but never ever forget that male > and> > > female hold equal status in this world.> > >> > > blessings> > >> > > Renu> > >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2007 Report Share Posted September 28, 2007 Dear Sunil ji, Thanks for your concern and attempted but clever calrification!! I agree Lalit ji did not write this intentionally. No hard feelings with anyone. Everybody is free to express their perceptions. Whether he was speaking through experience or not was not confirmed in that posting. I only wanted to point out that it was not fair to say so. It doesn't affect me personally at all. But from what I have learnt and heard, a baby girl born to Indian parents is not considered as an auspiscious event. [May be I am wrong. You can enlighten me on this....] This attitude prevails in Sri Lanka too, but not very much now. So may be such unintended but absurd statements are written on that basis. I hate to see this attitude towards women still prevailing in the Indian sub continent! I am sure most of you in this forum think more liberally.. One may say that this is irrelevant to the current thread. But then, one might be misled by such unconfirmed assumptions regarding planetary placemtns. blessings Renu , " sunil nair " <astro_tellerkerala wrote: > > > Hare ramakrishna > > dear renu ji , > > Females are more immune and strong to resist any diseases may be > rishis conveying this message .And lalit is speaking from his experince > of the charts he has seen .I dont think purposeful offence involved > here. > > See any species females are more than males ,I think if birth control > meausres and gender determination techniqs may be this theorey may not > work in humans. > > And lord siva has given half f his body to his better half and he become > ardha nariswara ,so we surely assume that rishis were not thinking the > way we r thinking but our launage has descriptionsies and we hav passed > tru various times in history .It is mainly the extentinal attacks and > subsequent plundering has contributed to it. > > with regrds > > sunil nair > > om shreem mahalaxmai namah. > > > , " renunw " <renunw@> > wrote: > > > > > > Dear Sunil ji, > > > > I am glad if it is so and I do apologize if I had made a mistake. I > > am sure he did not intentionally mean to insult... > > > > Anyway I don't think it was a language problem. What he wrote was > > that afflicted LL in 5H could lead to a birth of a girl child, a > > sick child, a hopeless child and so on. So it is obvious that he has > > put 'girl child' also to the same category as any other handicapped > > or unfortunate child. Don't you think it is unfair to do so? Why > > can't then an afflicted LL in 5H could give birth to a 'boy child'? > > A healthy girl is as good as a healthy boy. A girl is not born as a > > result of affliction to child giving houses!!! > > > > blessings > > > > Renu > > > > , " sunil nair " > > astro_tellerkerala@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hare ramakrishna, > > > > > > dear renu ji , > > > > > > lalit will not insult a female because she born as > > female .I > > > know personaly him and is a great devotee of holi mother ,such a > > > persons cannot humilate a woman according to the tradition. > > > > > > Only it was a laungage problem came in while writing the post > > > > > > rgds sunil nair > > > > > > om shreem mahalaxmai namah. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " renunw " <renunw@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Dear Lalit ji, > > > > > > > > > " loss doesn't mean death, it may be girl child, it may be > > hopeless > > > > > child, it may be a child with poor health, " > > > > > > > > > > > > Please kindly note that the above statement by you is absurd and > > > > insulting. Do you consider a girl born is as similar as a > > hopeless > > > > child? > > > > Or similar to a child with poor health? I am sure this has > > nothing to > > > > do with gender but may be I agree with your other suggestions. > > > > > > > > This is the 21st century and gone are the days of the male > > dominant > > > > society. Don't you have a mother, a sister, a wife or a > > daughter? Do > > > > you think your mother was born to this world as a result of a > > malefic > > > > influence on the lagna lord placed in the 5H of her mother's > > > horoscope? > > > > > > > > > > > > I am sorry to write like this...but never ever forget that male > > and > > > > female hold equal status in this world. > > > > > > > > blessings > > > > > > > > Renu > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2007 Report Share Posted September 28, 2007 Dear Javed ji, Yes, that shows that Parasara was right - and Lalit's effort to mixing too much water into it such as the following was wrong. ==> A malefic influence in 5'th does not always lead to loss of the first child, this placement sometimes give girl child, death of child is an extreme result which happens in cases of extreme maleificance. <== Hope Lalit ji will take it as a lesson - and see the slokas put forward by the sages with more trust. ==> > Mine lagna lord is Mars, which is placed in 5th house in my lagna chart. When my wife was in 3rd month of pregnancy, she had a miss carriage in 1993,it was our first baby, after that we have four children, quite healthy. <== Yes, it seems that Parasara was well aware of the contextual importance of signs for LL in placement in 5th for all the houses. Note that except for Aquarius and possibly for Pisces, for all the other houses 'LL in 5th' got some association with its sign of debilitation or 8th house or 12th house. But still i am a bit in dis-satisfied by the fact that Parasara considered or mixed 'Sign-Hous Base' result while dealing with 'House- Base' result derivation technique. Love, Sreenadh , javed khaanzada <javed_khaanzada wrote: > > Dear Lalit and Srinadh ji, > > As in Parasar Hora stated: > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be angry; will have moderate well-being from children. The native will lose his first child. He would be a proud individual with much self-respect and reputation. He would be dear to the king. > > Mine lagna lord is Mars,which is placed in 5th house in my lagna chart.When my wife was in 3rd month of pregnancy,she had a miss carriage in 1993,it was our first baby,after that we have four children,quite healthy. > > Regds-javed > > > litsol <mlalit wrote: > Dear Srinadh, > > Leave it, I m not part of ur show, where u r the only script writer, > director, actor, viewer and even the stage is your's. > > I had an impression that this is a open group where a collective > learning may emerge to make astrology more advanced more effective > but, I feel i was wrong in my understanding, you w'd never accept ur > shortcomings and w'd never take inputs from members. so i drop it. > > u make ur rules for ur convenience sake, act on ur rules as per ur > convenience and you teach rules to others as per ur conveniince and > define liberty from rules as per ur convenience. > > when i saw ur post, instinctively, without thinking much about > subsequent consequences, happen to respond to you, which will never > be there, i m a I m a easy going man, open minded person. > > I have no objection, carry on ur show, i m silent. > > regards, > Lalit. > > , " Sreenadh " > <sreesog@> wrote: > > > > Dear Lalit ji, > > The questions in articles are - > > * Guidance to think. > > * They are part of the process of thinking > > * They are not demanding, requesting and asking someone to come > and > > give a ready made answer, such as " Perhaps u have not checked > malefic > > influence on 5'th house with horoscopes... and I will teach you the > > remedy, the correct results and the method to be followed " ; know > that > > it is to motivate thinking; it is to motivate more fuel to the fire > > with in; to guide others and me to learn to think itself - > > systematically; in the way astrology demands! Note that 7-fold > method > > is a " Thought Tool " , a methodology for thinking. With a peaceful > mind > > think about it - and you will see what I mean. > > What the questions you present in your own writeups/articles - > you > > will what I mean. > > ==> > > > if ur post is only house specific why u raise such questions and > > > then try to find answers, > > <== > > I hope the above section clarifies this. The post was 'house > > specific' that too is right. > > ==> > > > u urself asked the question in ur post - " Why should lagna > > > lord going to 5th make the native an angry and aggressive > > > individual " and tried to understand the reason > > <== > > Yes, I did raise that question and tried to answer it - because > that > > was a result derived by Parasara and I was thinking about the logic > > behind it; Certainly that is related to 'House Base' derivation, > and > > not related to anything else. > > Did you tried to think and find an answer to that question? Did > you > > checked the same in some example horoscopes and found that it > doesn't > > work? > > Now let us come to your comment on the same - > > Comment -1 > > ==> > > > If u r doing a commentary on the ancient classics, ur approach is > > > right and there is lot to learn from such writings, but as > > > far as learning is concerned, more urge to study and dissect the > > > obsecure cases is required. > > <== > > What do you mean by 'obscure cases'? Do you mean example > horoscopes? > > The do it yourself - and present the results! That is the way to > go - > > an a research approach, and we too would be benefited by that; go > > ahead and do it! Note that the above statement by you lacks even > the > > basic understanding that " the article was dealing with House Base > > result derivation, and that too about LL in 5th " ! > > Comment -2 > > ==> > > > same way, 5'th has connection to 11'th house, the house of gains, > > > this combination of lagna lord's placement in 5'th house > > > makes a person too much ambitious, self cenetered, he is self > > > promting so should be aggressive coz his rise is his main > objective > > > of the life. This is what i observed. > > <== > > Yah, that is good logic - and a good suggestion. But note the last > > statement " This is what i observed " ! We all know that you started > > learning astrology before 5 months only. Of course you are a > smart > > learner, and has good logic, (I appreciate that, and happy about > it). > > Considering the above facts, possibly if it was something like - > " This > > is a better logical derivation I feel " , it would have been more > > pleasant. Even if you have " observed " such combinations - your > > time span of 5 months is not even enough to complete the training > > period and clear the testing phase! :=) > > Lalit ji, don't take all these comments personally - I love you > very > > much, and know well that it is rare to find such a good potential. > > But don't do the mistake becoming a teacher; don't do the mistake > of > > becoming a teacher - your experience and knowledge is not enough > for > > that; I have at least 8 years experience as a professional > > astrologer, but still I am a learner and yet to become a teacher; I > > don't think in near future it would be possible as well; thus the > > fact is there are no teachers in this group; and never can be. > > We are all fellow students here - even though the amount of > > knowledge may vary a bit from individual to individual; that is not > > much important. But learning to be a learner, and being a > learner, > > and accepting that i am a learner and that my knowledge is limited - > > > IS important. We simply don't have answers to everything - and > never > > can be. > > Be with me brother and give a bit credit for being elder... > > Love and Hugs, > > Sreenadh > > > > , " Sreenadh " > > <sreesog@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Lalit ji, > > > Are you noticing that we are deviating from the subject? Present > > > your views on Lagna lord in 5th in a well written way (In > similar > > > discussions - Baquya ji does it - he is good; Srinivas ji does > it; > > > Sunil Does it; RK ji does it; similarly many more members) and I > > will > > > love to see the same - whether it be from experience or from > Logic. > > > Second, I am NOT teaching anybody - but learning and presenting > > > systematically - of course my experience as an astrologer, and of > > the > > > books would be useful in that effort. But never expect or feel > that > > I > > > am teaching - I am NOT. Everybody learns by themselves. Everybody > > > should try to present there sincere " understanding " " about the > > > subject under discussion " with clarity. There is NO Teacher- > > Learner, > > > Master-Disciple here; But only learners - all members present in > > this > > > group are humble learners of the astrological wisdom presented by > > > sages. I am a learner a student of them, and NOT a teacher to > > anyone. > > > Please understand this. > > > Love, > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > , " litsol " > > > <mlalit@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Srinadh, > > > > > > > > Do u mean, If u r not clear somewhere or u r missing something > > and > > > > someone points out to the mising point, he himself lacks the > > > > understanding, very good approach, sorry to interrupt this > time, > > > now > > > > onwards will never try to correct you. > > > > > > > > However,u urself asked the question in ur post - " Why should > > lagna > > > > lord going to 5th make the native an angry and aggressive > > > > individual " and tried to understand the reason, if ur post is > > only > > > > house specific why u raise such questions and then try to find > > > > answers, simply i thuoght to correct ur effort with my > > > understanding > > > > but ur attitude is very different,So much inclination in > teaching > > > is > > > > affecting ur's learning only. > > > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > Lalit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " Sreenadh " > > > > <sreesog@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lalit ji, > > > > > Malefic effect in 5th causing many troubles is a known fact > to > > > all > > > > > astrologers - no explanation is needed on the same. Knowing > > what > > > > > those troubles are, needs considering a lot of other > > parameters. > > > > > Deriving the details - which uses several methodologies such > as > > > > > Bhavat Bhava Chinta, Karkat Bhava chinta, considering other > > > > > combinations - know that there is a big distance to go and it > > is > > > > not > > > > > that simple. > > > > > What we are doing here is not trying to reach some > inflexible > > > > > conclusion; or to analyze someone's horoscope; but to see to > > what > > > > > extend the slokas on 'House Base' derivation technique can > > point > > > > to. > > > > > Try to understand things in the context they are. > > > > > When you are trying your own bit of logic in something - > > present > > > > it > > > > > that way; Instead of saying this is right or that is wrong, > or > > > > > somewhere else is the crux. Present - as per your logic you > > think > > > > it > > > > > could be so and so. (Don't bring in I have seen such and such > > in > > > > some > > > > > horoscope and so let us discuss that horoscope strategy as > > well - > > > > > that is not the way. If the same combination is present in > some > > > > known > > > > > horoscope - the combination alone can be considered for > > > > verification, > > > > > and other feature or details of that horoscope should be > > > neglected. > > > > > We should stick to the context and the method of study). Loss > > can > > > > > mean many things - > > > > > * It could be abortion > > > > > * It could untimely death of son at a later age (as in the > > case > > > of > > > > > Indira Gandhi) > > > > > * It could be a missing son Or there could be many other > > > > > possibilities as well. > > > > > Neither the sloka nor we are going in to that details - > > instead > > > > what > > > > > we are doing is 'Trying to learn the logical background and > > > > concepts > > > > > used in House Base derivation by the sages; and thus trying > to > > > > master > > > > > that technique' - know this well. > > > > > ==> > > > > > > there are chances for the entire hard work to be confined > to > > > mere > > > > > > translation of some shlokas, which i think, is certainly > not > > > the > > > > > > objective. > > > > > <== > > > > > Clearly the above words come from lack of understanding of > > > > objective > > > > > and strategy, of this group. Please check - > > > > > * The previous mails on the same thread > > > > > * The files in the files folder dealing with similar things > > > (i.e. > > > > > Articles related to 7-fold result derivation technique of > > > astrology) > > > > > * Thus instead of starting afresh were you land yourself in > > the > > > > > forum, create a background to deal with the subject in hand, > > > > > systematically. > > > > > Note: The document regarding " Lagna lord in various houses > was > > > > there > > > > > in file section for many days, and mails about file uploading > > > goes > > > > to > > > > > every member, the main thread of discussion is on the same; > but > > > > alas! > > > > > the never read or refer to such files and instead depend on > the > > > > > posted mails alone! No serious learner who approach astrology > > > > > shouldn't follow such a method. He should download and study > > them > > > > > before putting in his bit - and that SHOULD BE a well thought > > out > > > > > one - depicting his sincerity and earnest effort to > understand > > > and > > > > > learn the path shown by the sages " . Whether such a view > matches > > > > with > > > > > mine or not is irrelevant. But the contribution should be > > > valuable - > > > > > > > > > coming out from research, experience and effort. > > > > > Hope the confusion is clarified. > > > > > Love and Hugs, > > > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > > > > > , " litsol " > > > > > <mlalit@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Srinadh, > > > > > > > > > > > > Pls. tell where i m wrong in finding such shortcomings in > > what > > > u > > > > > > tried to derive and explain after the translation, in fact, > i > > > > saw, > > > > > u > > > > > > urself tried to understand what is missing, struggled a > lot, > > > but > > > > > just > > > > > > stopped before touching the crux, a gap remained is to > cover > > > up. > > > > > > > > > > > > I suggested something for the betterment only. > > > > > > > > > > > > loss doesn't mean death, it may be girl child, it may be > > > hopeless > > > > > > child, it may be a child with poor health, we need to be > more > > > > > specific > > > > > > while deriving the results and explaining them to group. > > > > > > > > > > > > be admissive and keep a holistic approach so that a right > > > > learning > > > > > > approach could be developed having inputs from every one, > > > > > otherwise, > > > > > > there are chances for the entire hardwork to be confined to > > > mere > > > > > > translation of some shlokas, which i think, is certainly > not > > > the > > > > > > objective. > > > > > > > > > > > > if u mind and dont consider what u r told, i have no > business > > > to > > > > > > interrupt you, u can move on ur ways. > > > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > Lalit. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In , " Sreenadh " > > > > > > <sreesog@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Lalit ji, > > > > > > > Did you ever been an astrologer? I think not. Just > simply > > > > learn! > > > > > > > Love, > > > > > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In , " litsol " > > > > > > > <mlalit@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Srinadh, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Perhapse u have not checked malific influence on 5'th > > house > > > > > with > > > > > > > > horoscopes,However, i appreciate ur efforts to > understand > > > the > > > > > > > > consequences of 5'th house as well as lagna lord's > > > placement > > > > in > > > > > > > 5'th > > > > > > > > house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A malific influence in 5'th does not always lead to > loss > > of > > > > the > > > > > > > first > > > > > > > > child, this placement sometimes give girl child, death > of > > > > child > > > > > > is > > > > > > > an > > > > > > > > extreme result which happens in cases of extreme > > > malificance. > > > > I > > > > > > > > remember once u said during discussion of BB that 4'th > > > house > > > > > may > > > > > > > > denote loss of child, if 4'th there are other house as > > well > > > > as > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > reference to 5'th house. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If u r doing a commentary on the ancient classics, ur > > > > approach > > > > > is > > > > > > > > right and there is lot to learn from such writings, but > > as > > > > far > > > > > as > > > > > > > > learning is concerned, more urge to study and dissect > the > > > > > > obsecure > > > > > > > > cases is required. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > same way, 5'th has connection to 11'th house, the house > > of > > > > > gains, > > > > > > > > this combination of lagna lord's placement in 5'th > house > > > > makes > > > > > a > > > > > > > > person too much ambitious, self cenetered, he is self > > > > promting > > > > > so > > > > > > > > should be aggressive coz his rise is his main objective > > of > > > > the > > > > > > life. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is what i observed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > Lalit. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > , " Sreenadh " > > > > > > > > <sreesog@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The results for Lagna lord in 5th house is > discussed > > > > below. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ============================================== > > > > > > > > > Lagna lord in 5th House > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be proud an > > > > > > individual > > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > much self-respect and reputation and a bit angry but > > > > > righteous > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > kind. > > > > > > > > > He will have children. He may have moderate well- > being > > > from > > > > > > > > children and > > > > > > > > > may lose his first child as well, especially if there > > is > > > > some > > > > > > > > malefic > > > > > > > > > influence on 5th house. He would be dear to the > people > > > with > > > > > > power > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > authority. He will have good authority or rulership > and > > > > will > > > > > > > enjoy a > > > > > > > > > good eventful and enjoyable life. Bestowed with good > > > > > qualities, > > > > > > > he > > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > do many good deeds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be angry; > > will > > > > have > > > > > > > > moderate > > > > > > > > > well-being from children. The native will lose his > > first > > > > > child. > > > > > > > He > > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > be a proud individual with much self-respect and > > > > reputation. > > > > > He > > > > > > > > would be > > > > > > > > > dear to the king. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Parasara Hora > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why should lagna lord going to 5th make the native an > > > angry > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > aggressive individual? One of the logic behind could > > be - > > > > 5th > > > > > > is > > > > > > > 3rd > > > > > > > > > from 3rd house; and Upachaya (increase) stana of 3rd > > > house. > > > > > 3rd > > > > > > > > house > > > > > > > > > signify anger and possibly that is why lagna lord in > > 5th > > > > > > > increases > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > anger and agitation of the native. But also not that > > 5th > > > is > > > > > 2nd > > > > > > > > house > > > > > > > > > from 4th (simple and humble mind) making the native a > > > > > straight > > > > > > > > forward > > > > > > > > > individual. It is also mentioned in the sloka that > the > > > > native > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > lose > > > > > > > > > his first child - why? The natural expectation would > be > > > > that > > > > > > > lagna > > > > > > > > lord > > > > > > > > > in 5th should bestow good results for 5th, thus > > providing > > > > > > > children > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > happiness from children to the native. Of course if > > lagna > > > > > lord > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > in 5th > > > > > > > > > is afflicted by some malefic, then it would have > double > > > > > impact, > > > > > > > > since > > > > > > > > > the same would affect both the 5th house and the > lagna > > > lord > > > > > > > > amplifying > > > > > > > > > the possibility for bad result. Since 5th could > signify > > > the > > > > > > first > > > > > > > > child > > > > > > > > > the bad result could be attributed to the first child > > as > > > > > well. > > > > > > > > Actually > > > > > > > > > this is what we see mentioned in Meenaraja hora. But > > > > Parasara > > > > > > > > provides > > > > > > > > > no such clue about any required malefic influence in > > 5th > > > > > house! > > > > > > > We > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > wonder stuck by this derivation, and we fail to > imagine > > > any > > > > > > solid > > > > > > > > reason > > > > > > > > > behind such a derivation in the absence of any > malefic > > > > > > influence > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > 5th > > > > > > > > > house. Another version of the same sloka is > available, > > > > which > > > > > > also > > > > > > > > > provides similar results. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th, the native would be proud; > > will > > > > have > > > > > > > > moderate > > > > > > > > > well-being from children. He will lose his first > child. > > > He > > > > > > would > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > angry and will have special privileges in the king's > > > place. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Parasara Hora > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Apart from minor differences this sloka gives almost > > same > > > > > > results > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > above. It seems that, the loss of first child should > be > > > > > > predicted > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > if there is a malefic influence in 5th house, since > the > > > > other > > > > > > > > available > > > > > > > > > slokas give good results concerning children if lagna > > > lord > > > > is > > > > > > in > > > > > > > 5th > > > > > > > > > house. [Note that similar to in this sloka Parasara > > will > > > > not > > > > > > > mention > > > > > > > > > `if the lagna lord is malefic and placed in x house' > in > > > many > > > > > > > > > other slokas as well. We will encounter this writing > > > style > > > > > > > related > > > > > > > > issue > > > > > > > > > in many other instances as well] Let us see what > > > Meenaraja > > > > > has > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > say. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th house, the native will have > > > > children, > > > > > > > > righteous > > > > > > > > > and kind. He will have good authority or rulership > and > > > will > > > > > > enjoy > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > good > > > > > > > > > eventful and enjoyable life. Bestowed with good > > > qualities, > > > > he > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > do > > > > > > > > > many good deeds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Meenaraja Hora > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In one printed version of Meenaraja Hora the word > > Suseela > > > > is > > > > > > > quoted > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > Sugeeta (Good in singing). Select the proper word > based > > > on > > > > > > actual > > > > > > > > > experience observed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Note that as per Meenaraja lagna lord in 5th > `provides > > > > > children' > > > > > > > > > and does not `destroy children'. Even though Parasara > > > only > > > > > says > > > > > > > > > that `lose of first child could happen', he too does > > not > > > > say > > > > > > > > > that `the native will not have children'. If we > combine > > > the > > > > > > > > > statements of both Parasara and Meenaraja the only > > > > conclusion > > > > > > we > > > > > > > > could > > > > > > > > > reach is `The native will have children, but he may > > loss > > > > his > > > > > > first > > > > > > > > > child as well'. But it should be noted that the loss > of > > > > first > > > > > > > child > > > > > > > > > does not seems to be logically supported in the > absence > > > of > > > > > > malefic > > > > > > > > > influence on 5th house - this was my initial > inference. > > > (An > > > > > > > > amendment is > > > > > > > > > proposed later) The sloka provided by Hora Pradeepam > is > > > > > almost > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > same > > > > > > > > > as that of Meenaraja. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 5th house, the native will have > > > > children, > > > > > > > > righteous > > > > > > > > > and kind. He will have good authority or rulership > and > > > will > > > > > > enjoy > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > good > > > > > > > > > eventful and happy life. Bestowed with good > qualities, > > he > > > > > will > > > > > > do > > > > > > > > many > > > > > > > > > good deeds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Hora Pradeepam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parasara says that Lagna lord in 5th would make the > > > native > > > > > > angry - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > why? > > > > > > > > > Clearly any direct logic is not visible. Sun is the > > > natural > > > > > > > > significator > > > > > > > > > of Lagna. If we are considering lagna lord in 5th as > > > > similar > > > > > to > > > > > > > sun > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > 5th, then the above derivation would be justified and > > > > > possibly > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > lose > > > > > > > > > of first child as well. But is it a correct approach? > I > > > am > > > > > > > doubtful. > > > > > > > > > Only verifying the actual results from charts with > > > similar > > > > > > > > combination > > > > > > > > > can shed some light on this issue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rule 5: Lagna lord in any house should be treated > > similar > > > > to > > > > > > Sun > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > house, since Sun is the natural significator of Lagna. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am a bit doubtful about the validity of the above > > rule. > > > > If > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > supported by actual results it is better to ignore > the > > > > above > > > > > > > rule. > > > > > > > > The > > > > > > > > > logic supplied till now does not seem to be capable > > > enough > > > > to > > > > > > > > > satisfactorily explain the strong results proposed by > > > > > Parasara > > > > > > > such > > > > > > > > as - > > > > > > > > > Lagna lord in 5th causing the loss of first child; it > > > will > > > > > also > > > > > > > > make the > > > > > > > > > native an angry individual. There should be some > other > > > > logic > > > > > as > > > > > > > > well. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On retrospect we feel that - Parasara will not say > > > > something > > > > > > > > without a > > > > > > > > > sold reason. Why should he bring planets base result > > (e.g. > > > > > > > > > benefic/malefic) into it, when he was dealing with > > House > > > > base > > > > > > > > > prediction? That is not logical. There could be some > > > other > > > > in- > > > > > > > depth > > > > > > > > > reason. Yes, you are right - there is. Let us analyze > > all > > > > the > > > > > > > > possible > > > > > > > > > houses and lagna lord in their fifth house, and check > > > > whether > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > same > > > > > > > > > can cause the loss of child - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) Aries lagna, lagna lord Mars in Leo: Yes, Leo is a > > > sign > > > > > > > > signifying > > > > > > > > > less children, and Mars a malefic in it can indicate > > loss > > > > of > > > > > > > child > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > sure. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Taurus lagna, lagna lord Venus in Virgo: Virgo is > > the > > > > > > > > debilitation > > > > > > > > > sign for Venus. Also not that Venus owns the lordship > > of > > > > 6th > > > > > > > house > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > well. Thus for sure for Taurus lagna Venus in 5th can > > > > > indicate > > > > > > > loss > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > child for sure. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) Gemini lagna, lagna lord Me in Libra: Note that > > Venus > > > > the > > > > > > lord > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > Libra owns the 12th house (house indicating death) as > > > well. > > > > > > > > Possibly the > > > > > > > > > combination can indicate loss or death. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4) Cancer lagna, Moon in Scorpio: Scorpio is the > > > > debilitation > > > > > > > sign > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > Moon. Ofcourse the same can indicate the loss of > child. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5) Leo lagna, Sun in Sagittarius: Note that the lord > of > > > > > > > Sagittarius > > > > > > > > > Jupiter owns the 8th house (death) as well. Thus > > > certainly > > > > the > > > > > > > > > combination can indicate the loss or death of child. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 6) Virgo lagna, Me in Capricorn: The lord of > Capricorn > > > > Saturn > > > > > > > owns > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > 6th house as well. Possibly the combination can > > indicate > > > > bad > > > > > > > results > > > > > > > > > such as loss of child - amended by the fact that both > > > > Mercury > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > Saturn > > > > > > > > > are imbecile planets. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 7) Libra lagna, Venus in Aquarius: Note that lagna > lord > > > > Venus > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > also > > > > > > > > > the 8th lord. Certainly 8th lord is a malefic, and a > > > > malefic > > > > > > > placed > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > 5th can indicate lose of child. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you continue this analysis, you could see that for > > > most > > > > of > > > > > > the > > > > > > > 12 > > > > > > > > > signs, lagna lord placed in 5th can indicate the loss > > of > > > > > child, > > > > > > > even > > > > > > > > > though the same does not match perfectly for Aquarius > > and > > > > > > Pisces > > > > > > > > Lagna. > > > > > > > > > Thus it becomes clear that Parasara was not making a > > > > > statement > > > > > > > > without > > > > > > > > > base or without understanding. His derivation sprung > > from > > > > the > > > > > > deep > > > > > > > > > understanding that `for all the 12 signs, lagna lord > in > > > 5th > > > > > is > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > favorably placed, and this can be crystallized into > the > > > > brief > > > > > > > > statement > > > > > > > > > - lagna lord in 5th can indicate bad results such as - > > > > loss > > > > > of > > > > > > > first > > > > > > > > > child and anger'. Then is it that Meenaraja was wrong > > and > > > > > > Parasara > > > > > > > > > was right? No, it is not so. Meenaraja was deriving a > > > > result > > > > > > > based > > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > > the prime condition – Lagna lord in 5th alone. For > this > > > > prime > > > > > > > > > combination Meenaraja's derivation is absolutely > right. > > > But > > > > > > > > > Parasara's amendment springs from his deep > > understanding > > > of > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > zodiac. He knew that the general statement regarding > > > lagna > > > > > lord > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > other > > > > > > > > > houses may not be completely true for lagna lord in > > 5th, > > > > due > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > essential mutually co-related nature of the signs > > itself. > > > > So > > > > > > his > > > > > > > > opinion > > > > > > > > > would be, `Yes, Meenaraja is right. But you know the > > > Signs > > > > in > > > > > > > > > Zodiac, they have some specific connection to death > as > > > far > > > > as > > > > > > 5th > > > > > > > > house > > > > > > > > > is concerned. So your general derivation as proposed > by > > > > > > Meenaraja > > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > not work in this case. Consider this special nature > of > > > 5th > > > > > from > > > > > > > all > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > signs and modify your derivation accordingly. The you > > > will > > > > > see > > > > > > > that, > > > > > > > > > lagna lord in 5th can signify many bad results such > as > > > loss > > > > > of > > > > > > > first > > > > > > > > > child and anger'. It must be this deeper > understanding > > > which > > > > > > > > > prompted Parasara to suggest such a result. Yes, > > > Meenaraja > > > > is > > > > > > > > right, but > > > > > > > > > Parasara is also not off the mark. Meenaraja is > > concerned > > > > > with > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > general logic of the derivation only, but Parasara > goes > > > > > deeper > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > general zodiacal context. Note it - possibly in other > > > > > > situations > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > well > > > > > > > > > the same could be the case - Parasara has a better > > > > > > understanding > > > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > > the zodiacal context, and may mix it with general > > result > > > > > > > > derivation. His > > > > > > > > > thought and understanding penetrates into deaths; and > > is > > > > more > > > > > > far > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > wide. He is not depended on mere logic alone - he is > > more > > > > > > > > practical. It > > > > > > > > > is because of this in-depth understanding; Parasara > is > > > > termed > > > > > a > > > > > > > > sage, > > > > > > > > > but Meenaraja a king, a scholar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But even this understanding of Parasara view does not > > > does > > > > > not > > > > > > > > allow me > > > > > > > > > to pardon him - because here to derive the result he > > > mixed > > > > > the > > > > > > > > methods > > > > > > > > > of Sign-House Base result derivation, while dealing > > with > > > > > House > > > > > > > Base > > > > > > > > > result derivation - causing confusion to the learner. > I > > > > would > > > > > > > > suggest > > > > > > > > > that, in this context, the beginners should stick to > > the > > > > > > cleaner > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > systematic approach proposed by Meenaraja, while > trying > > > to > > > > > > master > > > > > > > > House > > > > > > > > > Base result derivation technique. The deeper > > > possibilities > > > > and > > > > > > > > > modification to the suggested results should dealt > with > > > and > > > > > > > > understood, > > > > > > > > > while trying to learn Sign-House Base result > derivation > > > > > > technique. > > > > > > > > > The 5th house signifies things such as - children, > > > > > intelligence, > > > > > > > > > creativity, genius, stomach, belly, ministers, secret > > > hymns > > > > > > > recited > > > > > > > > etc. > > > > > > > > > Thus the placement of lagna lord in 5th generates > > special > > > > > > > > importance to > > > > > > > > > the derivations related to the same. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Extract from: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh/ > > > > > > > > La\ > > > > > > > > > gna%20lord%20in%20Various%20Houses.pdf > > > > > > > > > ============================================== > > > > > > > > > Love, > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2007 Report Share Posted September 28, 2007 Dear Renu ji, I m taken wrongly beacuse of the way i did write the mail, pls. dont take girl child along with the other negative things i happen to write in same line. i dont discriminate girls and guys. I dont see any difference between girl and guy, the soul takes birth in form of two opposits - girl and guy, so, where difference comes in between. It takes hard to go above sex(male or female) oriented approach, one may spend whole life thinking and behaving as male or female, whereas one should know one is one sould wrapped in a particular body of particualr sex. There are age old men with good status in society i came across, who still thinks love making with a girl is a kind of vitcory, a kind of wining the female partner, this hidden sexual disorderness in mind leads them to become incompetant in their love making, they dont get what for nature has invented sex. This also shows an hatred approach in heart, this disables them from having a sense of completness. I sometimes criticize delhi's girls for their immaturity in understanding the beauti of sex and dignity of sweet love. they are becoming mechanical, this is affecting families, Delhi is the city in India with highest no. of divorce cases. parent's should educate their girls about relationship and consequences, a healthy approach should be there in the family, every human being is born to underake 4 purushaarth and sex has same importance like dharam has. but sex is an expressoin of love is what should be told to teens, an intimate action that u just cant do with any one and every one. regards, Lalit. , " sunil nair " <astro_tellerkerala wrote: > > > Hare ramakrishna > > dear renu ji , > > Females are more immune and strong to resist any diseases may be > rishis conveying this message .And lalit is speaking from his experince > of the charts he has seen .I dont think purposeful offence involved > here. > > See any species females are more than males ,I think if birth control > meausres and gender determination techniqs may be this theorey may not > work in humans. > > And lord siva has given half f his body to his better half and he become > ardha nariswara ,so we surely assume that rishis were not thinking the > way we r thinking but our launage has descriptionsies and we hav passed > tru various times in history .It is mainly the extentinal attacks and > subsequent plundering has contributed to it. > > with regrds > > sunil nair > > om shreem mahalaxmai namah. > > > , " renunw " <renunw@> > wrote: > > > > > > Dear Sunil ji, > > > > I am glad if it is so and I do apologize if I had made a mistake. I > > am sure he did not intentionally mean to insult... > > > > Anyway I don't think it was a language problem. What he wrote was > > that afflicted LL in 5H could lead to a birth of a girl child, a > > sick child, a hopeless child and so on. So it is obvious that he has > > put 'girl child' also to the same category as any other handicapped > > or unfortunate child. Don't you think it is unfair to do so? Why > > can't then an afflicted LL in 5H could give birth to a 'boy child'? > > A healthy girl is as good as a healthy boy. A girl is not born as a > > result of affliction to child giving houses!!! > > > > blessings > > > > Renu > > > > , " sunil nair " > > astro_tellerkerala@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hare ramakrishna, > > > > > > dear renu ji , > > > > > > lalit will not insult a female because she born as > > female .I > > > know personaly him and is a great devotee of holi mother ,such a > > > persons cannot humilate a woman according to the tradition. > > > > > > Only it was a laungage problem came in while writing the post > > > > > > rgds sunil nair > > > > > > om shreem mahalaxmai namah. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " renunw " <renunw@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Dear Lalit ji, > > > > > > > > > " loss doesn't mean death, it may be girl child, it may be > > hopeless > > > > > child, it may be a child with poor health, " > > > > > > > > > > > > Please kindly note that the above statement by you is absurd and > > > > insulting. Do you consider a girl born is as similar as a > > hopeless > > > > child? > > > > Or similar to a child with poor health? I am sure this has > > nothing to > > > > do with gender but may be I agree with your other suggestions. > > > > > > > > This is the 21st century and gone are the days of the male > > dominant > > > > society. Don't you have a mother, a sister, a wife or a > > daughter? Do > > > > you think your mother was born to this world as a result of a > > malefic > > > > influence on the lagna lord placed in the 5H of her mother's > > > horoscope? > > > > > > > > > > > > I am sorry to write like this...but never ever forget that male > > and > > > > female hold equal status in this world. > > > > > > > > blessings > > > > > > > > Renu > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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