Lagna lord in 9th House

[Guest guest]

Dear Shri Sreenadh, 10th house, being 7th to 4th indicates mother's husband. However, 9th house has to be father since 5th from it, is self (the natvie, the child), the Lagna. So, 10th house may be used to indicate stepfather. Does it sound logical?

Regards,udupaOn 10/2/07, Sreenadh <sreesog wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

Dear All,

Here is the info to start a discussion on

'Lagna lord in 9th house' . Let us have a worthy discussion on

the same.

=========================================

 

 

Lagna lord in 9th House

--

 

If lagna lord is in 9th, the native would be lucky and dear to

people. He will be a devotee of God Vishnu. He would an efficient individual,

efficient especially in speech and oratory. With wife, children and good amount

of wealth (essentials for a good worldly life) he will lead a good life. He

will have many respectable relatives. He will do many good deeds and would be a

righteous individual. It could be said that he is an individual with `Satwa

Guna', meaning he will have the ability to keep the same balanced state of mind

both in happiness and sadness. Bestowed with many good qualities, he will excel

as a popular and radiant individual. [Note that father is NOT mentioned in any

of the above results]

If lagna lord is in 9th, the native would be lucky and dear

to people. He will be a devotee of God Vishnu. He would an efficient

individual, efficient especially in speech and oratory. With wife, children and

good amount of wealth (essentials for a good worldly life) he will lead a good

life.

- Parasara Hora

Since 9th is the house signifying luck it is natural to say that

the native would be lucky, and a devotee of god. But why God Vishnu? There is

specific reason for this derivation. The trines signify the trinity. Lagna

signifies Brahma; 9th Vishnu; 5th Siva. This derivation primarily comes from

the zodiac itself. In the Zodiac Aries being the first sign signifies creation

and thus Brahma; 5th being Leo, the house of Sun, signifies Siva, 9th being the

Sagittarius, the house of Jupiter, signifies Vishnu. There is a saying

`Jeevastu Narayana', meaning `Jupiter signifies Narayana (God Vishnu floating

in the primordial ocean which caused the creation of the universe). Thus 9th

signifies god Vishnu and that is why it is derived that lagna lord in 9th will

make the native a devotee of God Vishnu. Thus we get a cute rule -

Rule 8: The significance of all the 12 houses are related to

the 12 signs from Aries onwards as well. Aries could signify creation, so as

lagna; Taurus could signify food so as 2nd and so on. Much significance that

gets associated to the houses is derived in this way. This understanding can be

used while deriving results using `House Base' system as well.

Parasara tells us that if lagna lord is in 9th he would be an

efficient individual - why? Note that 9th is a house that is in the visible

part of zodiac. (1 to 7 = Invisible or hidden half; 7 to 12 = visible or

popular half). Thus the qualities of the native would be well visible to the

public; he is lucky, spiritual, and righteous. All these help him in being an

efficient and successful individual. But this logic does not help us in

clarifying the derivation - he would be an efficient individual, efficient

especially in speech and oratory. What speech has to do with 9th? First it may

seem that - no, there is no relation.

But note that Parasara is simply extending the previous rule stated. 9th Sign

of zodiac is Sagittarius owned by Jupiter, and all the qualities such as

Speech, efficiency in speech, interest in telling spiritual and puranic

stories, good knowledge are all related to Jupiter itself. Thus it is quite

natural to derive the result `the native would be efficient especially in

speech and oratory'. This ability of the native will persist even to his old

age, as indicated by the fact that 9th is 8th (longevity) from 2nd house

(speech). Lagna lord in 9th gives beneficial results to 9th, causing longevity

of speech, or in other words, the ability to amaze people with wonderful

knowledge bits and excellent speaking abilities even in old age. Why it is said

that he would live a good life with wife, children and wealth? Note that these

are the prime conditions for being a lucky person in worldly life. As a

balanced, efficient, lucky individual he is sure to have the prime necessities

for worldly happiness - which happens to be `wife, children and wealth'. Also

note that 9th is 5th from 5th, and in essence LL in 9th bestows good results

for 5th indicating - beneficial results for children (5th house). Similarly 9th

is 3rd, an upachaya (growth and well being) house from 7th. Thus LL in 9th

gives beneficial results to 9th, indicating growth and well-being of 7th (wife)

as well. LL in 9th aspects 3rd house, which is 2nd from 2nd (a rule discussed

earlier) and thus provides good results for 2nd house as well, providing good

wealth. Thus in short, it turns out that - `wealth, wife and children' is a

well thought-out derivation, supported by logic in many ways.

If lagna lord is in 9th, the native will have many

respectable relatives. He will do many good deeds (He would a righteous

individual); keep the same balanced state of mind both in happiness and sadness

(He is an individual with `Satwa Guna') ; will have many good qualities. He

will excel as a popular and radiant individual.

- Meenaraja Hora

Why many respectable relatives - who are they? If Meenaraja

wanted to indicate the native will have a good father, it would have been easy

to understand, since 9th signifies father. But he says - `many respectable

relatives'. Of course respectability is a quality of 9th house and therefore no

doubt on that. A good respectable father is also a possibility. What about

other relatives - intended? From the discussion of 3rd house, we already know

that -

In male horoscope, 9th house can indicate - wife's sister,

brother's wife, sister's husband and wife's brother.

In female horoscope, 9th house can indicate - husband's brother,

sister's husband, brother's wife, husband's sister.

Son's son and daughter, Daughter's son and daughter, Mother's

brother (the traditional husband as per some sects) are also indicated by 9th

house itself.

It is due to all these reasons that Meenaraja resorted to the

statement, `LL in 9th (bestows good results for 9th and therefore) indicate

having many respectable relatives to the native'.

Meenaraja tells us that `the native will keep his equally

balanced state of mind in happiness and sadness' - why? It is because he is a

spiritual individual. Spiritual awareness helps the native to achieve the same

without much effort. In a calm mind the divine reflects and the beneficial

results follow. The remaining derivations of Meenaraja are also easy to

understand in this context.

Because we are discussing 9th house, there is unique point to

note. Why 9th house signify father? If 4th is mother (as indicated by the

ownership of Moon in Cancer, 4th sign from Aries), then the natural thing was

to say that 10th signify father, since the same is 7th from 4th as well. But

all the medieval texts, tell us that - father is signified by 9th house. Why?

Note that 9th indicate `Mother's mother's brother - the traditional husband as

per customs followed by several sects'. The Vedic tradition NEVER supported

such a system - then how come astrological texts attribute the significance of

father to 9th house instead of 10th? It would be interesting to note the

following points in this context.

* Only books of Jain (Garga hora etc) and South Indian tradition

attribute 9th house to father. [i am yet to see any other ancient Rishi hora

sloka (other than Garga Hora sloka) which attribute the significance of

`father' to 9th house. Of course astrology did not originate in South India but

in the banks of `Saraswati River'. It is the ancient Jain siddhas who spread it

through out India, especially in south India]

* All ancient text agree on the fact that 9th house signifies

Guru.

* While discussing 4th house (and in many other places) Parasara

indicated that father is signified by 10th house rather than 9th.

* In many traditions (including non-vedic and vedic; Agama and

Nigama) father was the first Guru of the native, especially related to

Upanayana etc. Many texts say that - Guru IS father, equating both of them,

possibly because Upanayana (providing sacred thread) is considered as the

second birth of the native.

I think -

1) Emphasis with Jain and South indian traditions attribute the

significance of father to 9th indicate that the tradition of marrying `mother's

brother' was very common among both of them.

2) This points to the agama (non-vedic) origin of astrology as

well. Even Mihira tells us that `Astrology is an Agama sastra' emphasizing its

non-vedic nature. But Mihira was so authentic and popular, that from the period

of Mihira onwards considering 9th as father got accepted by almost all the followers

of astrology (south indian and north indian; non-vedic and vedic; Jain and

Hindu) alike. Note that currently

there is almost no text available (except BPHS) that tells us that - 10th house

signifies father. It is cute fact to note.

 

3) Texts like Parasara hora (BC 1400) could be an effort to mix

the Agama system of astrology (some streams of which like the Jains, followed

customs like marrying `mother's brother') with the other streams (which never

followed such a custom). This could be a controversial statement. But if it is

so, this also points to the fact why texts like BPHS are popular in north,

while south instead depends on older Rishi horas (like Skanda hora, Garga hora

etc) and the text of Mihira who accepts that astrology is an Agama sastra

(Knowledge of Tantric origin).

4) It is also possible that the above statement is wrong. It is

possible that except Jains (Garga Hora) no other Rishi horas followed the

system of ascribing the significance of father to 9th house (we need to study

the available quotes). It is possible that any such indications we may find in

BPHS are later interpolations. If the above statements are true we would have

to resort to the statement " No Rishi Hora except Garga Hora attributes the

significance of father to 9th house. As per them father is signified by 10th

house " . This is a subject with good scope for astrological research. Research

and come out with ancient quotes that support your arguments.

5) Essentially thus the fact springs up that the Jain contribution

to the development of astrology in India - is far more than what we currently

ascribe them to. Similarly the contribution of Vedic tradition and literature

to the development of Nirayana astrology is far less than what we ascribe them

to. Possibly ancient indian astrology is a branch of science developed by the

Asura Tantric culture of Harappa (which covered many other parts of the world

such as Iran, Assyria etc as well) and spread throughout India mostly through

the Jain Siddhas. That was why it was still Agama sastra (Tantric knowledge

branch) even at the period of Mihira (i.e. AD 550). Note that even Aryabhata

was a Jain. Since Sage Garga - a Jain sage - who wrote Garga Hora lived around

BC 1400, and was a contemporary of Skanda (the originator of Nirayana

astrological knowledge who wrote Skanda Hora), it turns out that the Jain

tradition is as old as Vedic tradition. The Saiva Agama tradition existed prior

to that even in the Harappan period. So the flow of this eternal knowledge

branch known as Nirayana Astrology in ancient India would be from Saiva Agama

tradition to Jain Tradition to South India through the sea shore (Gujarat and

Orissa). And then by the period of Mihira getting accepted by the whole of

India - mixing both Agamic Nirayana Zodiacal astrology and Vedic Tropical

Astrology. Mutual interactions and give and take must have happened in between

as well - but it is fair to say that till the period of Mihira (AD 550),

Nirayana zodiacal Astrology and Sayana Tropical

astrology were treated separately in India - the first considered as

Agamic and the second as Vedic (Nigamic). The non-vedic nature of astrology is

also evident from the fact that, astrology texts don't even mention the name of Lagatha or his student

Suchi, who wrote the text `Vedanga Jyotisha' in

BC1400, a text dealing with astronomy and calendar system known to and

followed by vedic tradition. Thus possibly all the 18 sages mentioned by

astrological classics were outside vedic tradition - no wonder the hindu

brahmin fanatics prior to the period of Mihira never tried to save those

astrological texts - from extinction. The other stalwart of the same era,

Aryabhata (AD 522) was a follower of Jain religion. It should be said that -

together they saved this knowledge of Nirayana astrology from complete

extinction.

We have drifted away a bit during this discussion, from our

major subject that is `Lagna lord in

various house' but still I think it is worth it. Now let us go back and

continue our study -

The 9th house

signifies things such as - luck, guru, vishnu, purana, story telling, father,

meditation, kind donations, righteous deeds, devotion etc. Thus the placement

of lagna lord in 9th generates special importance to the derivations related to

the same.

- by Sreenadh

(sreesog)

=========================================

Love,

Sreenadh

[Guest guest]

Dear Haridas ji,

5th from what?!!

 

5th from 4th is - 8th

5th from 9th is - Lagna

5th from 5th is - 9th

 

What do you mean? Please clarify.

 

Note: 9th is - 4th (Mother's) 7th (Mother's) Brother (9th). The

custom of 'the girl marrying Mother's brother' is present among people

of Tamilnadu and was present possibly among Jains as well. That is why

9th signify Father as per the jain sage - Garga.

 

Love,

Sreenadh

 

, " Haridas Udupa "

<ahudupa wrote:

>

> Dear Shri Sreenadh,

> 10th house, being 7th to 4th indicates mother's husband.

However, 9th

> house has to be father since 5th from it, is self (the natvie, the

child),

> the Lagna. So, 10th house may be used to indicate stepfather. Does

it sound

> logical?

> Regards,

> udupa

>

> On 10/2/07, Sreenadh <sreesog wrote:

> >

> > Dear All,

> > Here is the info to start a discussion on 'Lagna lord in 9th

house'

> > . Let us have a worthy discussion on the same.

> > =========================================

> >

> > *

> > Lagna lord in 9th House

> > --

> > *

> >

> > If lagna lord is in 9th, the native would be lucky and dear to

people. He

> > will be a devotee of God Vishnu. He would an efficient individual,

efficient

> > especially in speech and oratory. With wife, children and good

amount of

> > wealth (essentials for a good worldly life) he will lead a good

life. He

> > will have many respectable relatives. He will do many good deeds

and would

> > be a righteous individual. It could be said that he is an

individual with

> > `Satwa Guna', meaning he will have the ability to keep the same

balanced

> > state of mind both in happiness and sadness. Bestowed with many good

> > qualities, he will excel as a popular and radiant individual.

[Note that

> > father is NOT mentioned in any of the above results]

> >

> > *If lagna lord is in 9th, the native would be lucky and dear to

people. He

> > will be a devotee of God Vishnu. He would an efficient individual,

efficient

> > especially in speech and oratory. With wife, children and good

amount of

> > wealth (essentials for a good worldly life) he will lead a good life.*

> >

> > *- Parasara Hora*

> >

> > Since 9th is the house signifying luck it is natural to say that the

> > native would be lucky, and a devotee of god. But why God Vishnu?

There is

> > specific reason for this derivation. The trines signify the

trinity. Lagna

> > signifies Brahma; 9th Vishnu; 5th Siva. This derivation primarily

comes from

> > the zodiac itself. In the Zodiac Aries being the first sign signifies

> > creation and thus Brahma; 5th being Leo, the house of Sun,

signifies Siva,

> > 9th being the Sagittarius, the house of Jupiter, signifies Vishnu.

There is

> > a saying `Jeevastu Narayana', meaning `Jupiter signifies Narayana (God

> > Vishnu floating in the primordial ocean which caused the creation

of the

> > universe). Thus 9th signifies god Vishnu and that is why it is

derived that

> > lagna lord in 9th will make the native a devotee of God Vishnu.

Thus we get

> > a cute rule -

> >

> > *Rule 8: The significance of all the 12 houses are related to the

12 signs

> > from Aries onwards as well. Aries could signify creation, so as lagna;

> > Taurus could signify food so as 2nd and so on. Much significance

that gets

> > associated to the houses is derived in this way. This

understanding can be

> > used while deriving results using `House Base' system as well. *

> >

> > Parasara tells us that if lagna lord is in 9th he would be an

efficient

> > individual - why? Note that 9th is a house that is in the visible

part of

> > zodiac. (1 to 7 = Invisible or hidden half; 7 to 12 = visible or

popular

> > half). Thus the qualities of the native would be well visible to

the public;

> > he is lucky, spiritual, and righteous. All these help him in being an

> > efficient and successful individual. But this logic does not help

us in

> > clarifying the derivation - he would be an efficient individual,

efficient

> > especially in speech and oratory. What speech has to do with 9th?

First it

> > may seem that - no, there is no relation. But note that Parasara is

> > simply extending the previous rule stated. 9th Sign of zodiac is

Sagittarius

> > owned by Jupiter, and all the qualities such as Speech, efficiency in

> > speech, interest in telling spiritual and puranic stories, good

knowledge

> > are all related to Jupiter itself. Thus it is quite natural to

derive the

> > result `the native would be efficient especially in speech and

oratory'.

> > This ability of the native will persist even to his old age, as

indicated by

> > the fact that 9th is 8th (longevity) from 2nd house (speech).

Lagna lord in

> > 9th gives beneficial results to 9th, causing longevity of speech,

or in

> > other words, the ability to amaze people with wonderful knowledge

bits and

> > excellent speaking abilities even in old age. Why it is said that

he would

> > live a good life with wife, children and wealth? Note that these

are the

> > prime conditions for being a lucky person in worldly life. As a

balanced,

> > efficient, lucky individual he is sure to have the prime

necessities for

> > worldly happiness - which happens to be `wife, children and

wealth'. Also

> > note that 9th is 5th from 5th, and in essence LL in 9th bestows

good results

> > for 5th indicating - beneficial results for children (5th house).

Similarly

> > 9th is 3rd, an upachaya (growth and well being) house from 7th.

Thus LL in

> > 9th gives beneficial results to 9th, indicating growth and

well-being of 7th

> > (wife) as well. LL in 9th aspects 3rd house, which is 2nd from 2nd

(a rule

> > discussed earlier) and thus provides good results for 2nd house as

well,

> > providing good wealth. Thus in short, it turns out that - `wealth,

wife and

> > children' is a well thought-out derivation, supported by logic in

many ways.

> >

> > *If lagna lord is in 9th, the native will have many respectable

relatives.

> > He will do many good deeds (He would a righteous individual); keep

the same

> > balanced state of mind both in happiness and sadness (He is an

individual

> > with `Satwa Guna') ; will have many good qualities. He will excel as a

> > popular and radiant individual.*

> >

> > *- Meenaraja Hora*

> >

> > Why many respectable relatives - who are they? If Meenaraja wanted to

> > indicate the native will have a good father, it would have been

easy to

> > understand, since 9th signifies father. But he says - `many

respectable

> > relatives'. Of course respectability is a quality of 9th house and

therefore

> > no doubt on that. A good respectable father is also a possibility.

What

> > about other relatives - intended? From the discussion of 3rd house, we

> > already know that -

> >

> > In male horoscope, 9th house can indicate - wife's sister,

brother's wife,

> > sister's husband and wife's brother.

> >

> > In female horoscope, 9th house can indicate - husband's brother,

sister's

> > husband, brother's wife, husband's sister.

> >

> > Son's son and daughter, Daughter's son and daughter, Mother's

brother (the

> > traditional husband as per some sects) are also indicated by 9th house

> > itself.

> >

> > It is due to all these reasons that Meenaraja resorted to the

statement,

> > `LL in 9th (bestows good results for 9th and therefore) indicate

having many

> > respectable relatives to the native'.

> >

> > Meenaraja tells us that `the native will keep his equally balanced

state

> > of mind in happiness and sadness' - why? It is because he is a

spiritual

> > individual. Spiritual awareness helps the native to achieve the

same without

> > much effort. In a calm mind the divine reflects and the beneficial

results

> > follow. The remaining derivations of Meenaraja are also easy to

understand

> > in this context.

> >

> > Because we are discussing 9th house, there is unique point to

note. Why

> > 9th house signify father? If 4th is mother (as indicated by the

ownership of

> > Moon in Cancer, 4th sign from Aries), then the natural thing was

to say that

> > 10th signify father, since the same is 7th from 4th as well. But

all the

> > medieval texts, tell us that - father is signified by 9th house.

Why? Note

> > that 9th indicate `Mother's mother's brother - the traditional

husband as

> > per customs followed by several sects'. The Vedic tradition NEVER

supported

> > such a system - then how come astrological texts attribute the

significance

> > of father to 9th house instead of 10th? It would be interesting to

note the

> > following points in this context.

> >

> > * Only books of Jain (Garga hora etc) and South Indian tradition

attribute

> > 9th house to father. [i am yet to see any other ancient Rishi hora

sloka

> > (other than Garga Hora sloka) which attribute the significance of

`father'

> > to 9th house. Of course astrology did not originate in South India

but in

> > the banks of `Saraswati River'. It is the ancient Jain siddhas who

spread it

> > through out India, especially in south India]

> >

> > * All ancient text agree on the fact that 9th house signifies Guru.

> >

> > * While discussing 4th house (and in many other places) Parasara

indicated

> > that father is signified by 10th house rather than 9th.

> >

> > * In many traditions (including non-vedic and vedic; Agama and Nigama)

> > father was the first Guru of the native, especially related to

Upanayana

> > etc. Many texts say that - Guru IS father, equating both of them,

possibly

> > because Upanayana (providing sacred thread) is considered as the

second

> > birth of the native.

> >

> > I think -

> >

> > 1) Emphasis with Jain and South indian traditions attribute the

> > significance of father to 9th indicate that the tradition of marrying

> > `mother's brother' was very common among both of them.

> >

> > 2) This points to the agama (non-vedic) origin of astrology as

well. Even

> > Mihira tells us that `Astrology is an Agama sastra' emphasizing its

> > non-vedic nature. But Mihira was so authentic and popular, that

from the

> > period of Mihira onwards considering 9th as father got accepted by

almost

> > all the followers of astrology (south indian and north indian;

non-vedic and

> > vedic; Jain and Hindu) alike. Note that currently there is

almost

> > no text available (except BPHS) that tells us that - 10th house

signifies

> > father. It is cute fact to note.

> >

> > 3) Texts like Parasara hora (BC 1400) could be an effort to mix

the Agama

> > system of astrology (some streams of which like the Jains,

followed customs

> > like marrying `mother's brother') with the other streams (which never

> > followed such a custom). This could be a controversial statement.

But if it

> > is so, this also points to the fact why texts like BPHS are popular in

> > north, while south instead depends on older Rishi horas (like

Skanda hora,

> > Garga hora etc) and the text of Mihira who accepts that astrology

is an

> > Agama sastra (Knowledge of Tantric origin).

> >

> > 4) It is also possible that the above statement is wrong. It is

possible

> > that except Jains (Garga Hora) no other Rishi horas followed the

system of

> > ascribing the significance of father to 9th house (we need to

study the

> > available quotes). It is possible that any such indications we may

find in

> > BPHS are later interpolations. If the above statements are true we

would

> > have to resort to the statement " No Rishi Hora except Garga Hora

attributes

> > the significance of father to 9th house. As per them father is

signified by

> > 10th house " . This is a subject with good scope for astrological

research.

> > Research and come out with ancient quotes that support your arguments.

> >

> > 5) Essentially thus the fact springs up that the Jain contribution

to the

> > development of astrology in India - is far more than what we currently

> > ascribe them to. Similarly the contribution of Vedic tradition and

> > literature to the development of Nirayana astrology is far less

than what we

> > ascribe them to. Possibly ancient indian astrology is a branch of

science

> > developed by the Asura Tantric culture of Harappa (which covered

many other

> > parts of the world such as Iran, Assyria etc as well) and spread

throughout

> > India mostly through the Jain Siddhas. That was why it was still Agama

> > sastra (Tantric knowledge branch) even at the period of Mihira

(i.e. AD

> > 550). Note that even Aryabhata was a Jain. Since Sage Garga - a

Jain sage -

> > who wrote Garga Hora lived around BC 1400, and was a contemporary

of Skanda

> > (the originator of Nirayana astrological knowledge who wrote

Skanda Hora),

> > it turns out that the Jain tradition is as old as Vedic tradition.

The Saiva

> > Agama tradition existed prior to that even in the Harappan period.

So the

> > flow of this eternal knowledge branch known as Nirayana Astrology

in ancient

> > India would be from Saiva Agama tradition to Jain Tradition to

South India

> > through the sea shore (Gujarat and Orissa). And then by the period

of Mihira

> > getting accepted by the whole of India - mixing both Agamic Nirayana

> > Zodiacal astrology and Vedic Tropical Astrology. Mutual

interactions and

> > give and take must have happened in between as well - but it is

fair to say

> > that till the period of Mihira (AD 550), Nirayana zodiacal

Astrology and

> > Sayana Tropical astrology were treated separately in India - the

first

> > considered as Agamic and the second as Vedic (Nigamic). The

non-vedic nature

> > of astrology is also evident from the fact that, astrology texts

don't even

> > mention the name of Lagatha or his student Suchi, who wrote the text

> > `Vedanga Jyotisha' in BC1400, a text dealing with astronomy and

calendar

> > system known to and followed by vedic tradition. Thus possibly all

the 18

> > sages mentioned by astrological classics were outside vedic

tradition - no

> > wonder the hindu brahmin fanatics prior to the period of Mihira

never tried

> > to save those astrological texts - from extinction. The other

stalwart of

> > the same era, Aryabhata (AD 522) was a follower of Jain religion.

It should

> > be said that - together they saved this knowledge of Nirayana

astrology from

> > complete extinction.

> >

> > We have drifted away a bit during this discussion, from our major

subject

> > that is `Lagna lord in various house' but still I think it is

worth it. Now

> > let us go back and continue our study -

> >

> > The 9th house signifies things such as - luck, guru, vishnu, purana,

> > story telling, father, meditation, kind donations, righteous

deeds, devotion

> > etc. Thus the placement of lagna lord in 9th generates special

importance to

> > the derivations related to the same.

> >

> > - by Sreenadh (sreesog)

> >

> > =========================================

> > Love,

> > Sreenadh

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Mr. sreenadh, 5th from 9th is Lagna itself. If 9th is father then 5th from it, the Lagna is child. It is a never ending cycle.Regards,UdupaOn 10/2/07,

Sreenadh <sreesog wrote:

 

 

 

 

Dear Haridas ji,

5th from what?!!

 

5th from 4th is - 8th

5th from 9th is - Lagna

5th from 5th is - 9th

 

What do you mean? Please clarify.

 

Note: 9th is - 4th (Mother's) 7th (Mother's) Brother (9th). The

custom of 'the girl marrying Mother's brother' is present among people

of Tamilnadu and was present possibly among Jains as well. That is why

9th signify Father as per the jain sage - Garga.

 

Love,

Sreenadh

 

, " Haridas Udupa "

 

<ahudupa wrote:

>

> Dear Shri Sreenadh,

> 10th house, being 7th to 4th indicates mother's husband.

However, 9th

> house has to be father since 5th from it, is self (the natvie, the

child),

> the Lagna. So, 10th house may be used to indicate stepfather. Does

it sound

> logical?

> Regards,

> udupa

>

> On 10/2/07, Sreenadh <sreesog wrote:

> >

> > Dear All,

> > Here is the info to start a discussion on 'Lagna lord in 9th

house'

> > . Let us have a worthy discussion on the same.

> > =========================================

> >

> > *

> > Lagna lord in 9th House

> > --

> > *

> >

> > If lagna lord is in 9th, the native would be lucky and dear to

people. He

> > will be a devotee of God Vishnu. He would an efficient individual,

efficient

> > especially in speech and oratory. With wife, children and good

amount of

> > wealth (essentials for a good worldly life) he will lead a good

life. He

> > will have many respectable relatives. He will do many good deeds

and would

> > be a righteous individual. It could be said that he is an

individual with

> > `Satwa Guna', meaning he will have the ability to keep the same

balanced

> > state of mind both in happiness and sadness. Bestowed with many good

> > qualities, he will excel as a popular and radiant individual.

[Note that

> > father is NOT mentioned in any of the above results]

> >

> > *If lagna lord is in 9th, the native would be lucky and dear to

people. He

> > will be a devotee of God Vishnu. He would an efficient individual,

efficient

> > especially in speech and oratory. With wife, children and good

amount of

> > wealth (essentials for a good worldly life) he will lead a good life.*

> >

> > *- Parasara Hora*

> >

> > Since 9th is the house signifying luck it is natural to say that the

> > native would be lucky, and a devotee of god. But why God Vishnu?

There is

> > specific reason for this derivation. The trines signify the

trinity. Lagna

> > signifies Brahma; 9th Vishnu; 5th Siva. This derivation primarily

comes from

> > the zodiac itself. In the Zodiac Aries being the first sign signifies

> > creation and thus Brahma; 5th being Leo, the house of Sun,

signifies Siva,

> > 9th being the Sagittarius, the house of Jupiter, signifies Vishnu.

There is

> > a saying `Jeevastu Narayana', meaning `Jupiter signifies Narayana (God

> > Vishnu floating in the primordial ocean which caused the creation

of the

> > universe). Thus 9th signifies god Vishnu and that is why it is

derived that

> > lagna lord in 9th will make the native a devotee of God Vishnu.

Thus we get

> > a cute rule -

> >

> > *Rule 8: The significance of all the 12 houses are related to the

12 signs

> > from Aries onwards as well. Aries could signify creation, so as lagna;

> > Taurus could signify food so as 2nd and so on. Much significance

that gets

> > associated to the houses is derived in this way. This

understanding can be

> > used while deriving results using `House Base' system as well. *

> >

> > Parasara tells us that if lagna lord is in 9th he would be an

efficient

> > individual - why? Note that 9th is a house that is in the visible

part of

> > zodiac. (1 to 7 = Invisible or hidden half; 7 to 12 = visible or

popular

> > half). Thus the qualities of the native would be well visible to

the public;

> > he is lucky, spiritual, and righteous. All these help him in being an

> > efficient and successful individual. But this logic does not help

us in

> > clarifying the derivation - he would be an efficient individual,

efficient

> > especially in speech and oratory. What speech has to do with 9th?

First it

> > may seem that - no, there is no relation. But note that Parasara is

> > simply extending the previous rule stated. 9th Sign of zodiac is

Sagittarius

> > owned by Jupiter, and all the qualities such as Speech, efficiency in

> > speech, interest in telling spiritual and puranic stories, good

knowledge

> > are all related to Jupiter itself. Thus it is quite natural to

derive the

> > result `the native would be efficient especially in speech and

oratory'.

> > This ability of the native will persist even to his old age, as

indicated by

> > the fact that 9th is 8th (longevity) from 2nd house (speech).

Lagna lord in

> > 9th gives beneficial results to 9th, causing longevity of speech,

or in

> > other words, the ability to amaze people with wonderful knowledge

bits and

> > excellent speaking abilities even in old age. Why it is said that

he would

> > live a good life with wife, children and wealth? Note that these

are the

> > prime conditions for being a lucky person in worldly life. As a

balanced,

> > efficient, lucky individual he is sure to have the prime

necessities for

> > worldly happiness - which happens to be `wife, children and

wealth'. Also

> > note that 9th is 5th from 5th, and in essence LL in 9th bestows

good results

> > for 5th indicating - beneficial results for children (5th house).

Similarly

> > 9th is 3rd, an upachaya (growth and well being) house from 7th.

Thus LL in

> > 9th gives beneficial results to 9th, indicating growth and

well-being of 7th

> > (wife) as well. LL in 9th aspects 3rd house, which is 2nd from 2nd

(a rule

> > discussed earlier) and thus provides good results for 2nd house as

well,

> > providing good wealth. Thus in short, it turns out that - `wealth,

wife and

> > children' is a well thought-out derivation, supported by logic in

many ways.

> >

> > *If lagna lord is in 9th, the native will have many respectable

relatives.

> > He will do many good deeds (He would a righteous individual); keep

the same

> > balanced state of mind both in happiness and sadness (He is an

individual

> > with `Satwa Guna') ; will have many good qualities. He will excel as a

> > popular and radiant individual.*

> >

> > *- Meenaraja Hora*

> >

> > Why many respectable relatives - who are they? If Meenaraja wanted to

> > indicate the native will have a good father, it would have been

easy to

> > understand, since 9th signifies father. But he says - `many

respectable

> > relatives'. Of course respectability is a quality of 9th house and

therefore

> > no doubt on that. A good respectable father is also a possibility.

What

> > about other relatives - intended? From the discussion of 3rd house, we

> > already know that -

> >

> > In male horoscope, 9th house can indicate - wife's sister,

brother's wife,

> > sister's husband and wife's brother.

> >

> > In female horoscope, 9th house can indicate - husband's brother,

sister's

> > husband, brother's wife, husband's sister.

> >

> > Son's son and daughter, Daughter's son and daughter, Mother's

brother (the

> > traditional husband as per some sects) are also indicated by 9th house

> > itself.

> >

> > It is due to all these reasons that Meenaraja resorted to the

statement,

> > `LL in 9th (bestows good results for 9th and therefore) indicate

having many

> > respectable relatives to the native'.

> >

> > Meenaraja tells us that `the native will keep his equally balanced

state

> > of mind in happiness and sadness' - why? It is because he is a

spiritual

> > individual. Spiritual awareness helps the native to achieve the

same without

> > much effort. In a calm mind the divine reflects and the beneficial

results

> > follow. The remaining derivations of Meenaraja are also easy to

understand

> > in this context.

> >

> > Because we are discussing 9th house, there is unique point to

note. Why

> > 9th house signify father? If 4th is mother (as indicated by the

ownership of

> > Moon in Cancer, 4th sign from Aries), then the natural thing was

to say that

> > 10th signify father, since the same is 7th from 4th as well. But

all the

> > medieval texts, tell us that - father is signified by 9th house.

Why? Note

> > that 9th indicate `Mother's mother's brother - the traditional

husband as

> > per customs followed by several sects'. The Vedic tradition NEVER

supported

> > such a system - then how come astrological texts attribute the

significance

> > of father to 9th house instead of 10th? It would be interesting to

note the

> > following points in this context.

> >

> > * Only books of Jain (Garga hora etc) and South Indian tradition

attribute

> > 9th house to father. [i am yet to see any other ancient Rishi hora

sloka

> > (other than Garga Hora sloka) which attribute the significance of

`father'

> > to 9th house. Of course astrology did not originate in South India

but in

> > the banks of `Saraswati River'. It is the ancient Jain siddhas who

spread it

> > through out India, especially in south India]

> >

> > * All ancient text agree on the fact that 9th house signifies Guru.

> >

> > * While discussing 4th house (and in many other places) Parasara

indicated

> > that father is signified by 10th house rather than 9th.

> >

> > * In many traditions (including non-vedic and vedic; Agama and Nigama)

> > father was the first Guru of the native, especially related to

Upanayana

> > etc. Many texts say that - Guru IS father, equating both of them,

possibly

> > because Upanayana (providing sacred thread) is considered as the

second

> > birth of the native.

> >

> > I think -

> >

> > 1) Emphasis with Jain and South indian traditions attribute the

> > significance of father to 9th indicate that the tradition of marrying

> > `mother's brother' was very common among both of them.

> >

> > 2) This points to the agama (non-vedic) origin of astrology as

well. Even

> > Mihira tells us that `Astrology is an Agama sastra' emphasizing its

> > non-vedic nature. But Mihira was so authentic and popular, that

from the

> > period of Mihira onwards considering 9th as father got accepted by

almost

> > all the followers of astrology (south indian and north indian;

non-vedic and

> > vedic; Jain and Hindu) alike. Note that currently there is

almost

> > no text available (except BPHS) that tells us that - 10th house

signifies

> > father. It is cute fact to note.

> >

> > 3) Texts like Parasara hora (BC 1400) could be an effort to mix

the Agama

> > system of astrology (some streams of which like the Jains,

followed customs

> > like marrying `mother's brother') with the other streams (which never

> > followed such a custom). This could be a controversial statement.

But if it

> > is so, this also points to the fact why texts like BPHS are popular in

> > north, while south instead depends on older Rishi horas (like

Skanda hora,

> > Garga hora etc) and the text of Mihira who accepts that astrology

is an

> > Agama sastra (Knowledge of Tantric origin).

> >

> > 4) It is also possible that the above statement is wrong. It is

possible

> > that except Jains (Garga Hora) no other Rishi horas followed the

system of

> > ascribing the significance of father to 9th house (we need to

study the

> > available quotes). It is possible that any such indications we may

find in

> > BPHS are later interpolations. If the above statements are true we

would

> > have to resort to the statement " No Rishi Hora except Garga Hora

attributes

> > the significance of father to 9th house. As per them father is

signified by

> > 10th house " . This is a subject with good scope for astrological

research.

> > Research and come out with ancient quotes that support your arguments.

> >

> > 5) Essentially thus the fact springs up that the Jain contribution

to the

> > development of astrology in India - is far more than what we currently

> > ascribe them to. Similarly the contribution of Vedic tradition and

> > literature to the development of Nirayana astrology is far less

than what we

> > ascribe them to. Possibly ancient indian astrology is a branch of

science

> > developed by the Asura Tantric culture of Harappa (which covered

many other

> > parts of the world such as Iran, Assyria etc as well) and spread

throughout

> > India mostly through the Jain Siddhas. That was why it was still Agama

> > sastra (Tantric knowledge branch) even at the period of Mihira

(i.e. AD

> > 550). Note that even Aryabhata was a Jain. Since Sage Garga - a

Jain sage -

> > who wrote Garga Hora lived around BC 1400, and was a contemporary

of Skanda

> > (the originator of Nirayana astrological knowledge who wrote

Skanda Hora),

> > it turns out that the Jain tradition is as old as Vedic tradition.

The Saiva

> > Agama tradition existed prior to that even in the Harappan period.

So the

> > flow of this eternal knowledge branch known as Nirayana Astrology

in ancient

> > India would be from Saiva Agama tradition to Jain Tradition to

South India

> > through the sea shore (Gujarat and Orissa). And then by the period

of Mihira

> > getting accepted by the whole of India - mixing both Agamic Nirayana

> > Zodiacal astrology and Vedic Tropical Astrology. Mutual

interactions and

> > give and take must have happened in between as well - but it is

fair to say

> > that till the period of Mihira (AD 550), Nirayana zodiacal

Astrology and

> > Sayana Tropical astrology were treated separately in India - the

first

> > considered as Agamic and the second as Vedic (Nigamic). The

non-vedic nature

> > of astrology is also evident from the fact that, astrology texts

don't even

> > mention the name of Lagatha or his student Suchi, who wrote the text

> > `Vedanga Jyotisha' in BC1400, a text dealing with astronomy and

calendar

> > system known to and followed by vedic tradition. Thus possibly all

the 18

> > sages mentioned by astrological classics were outside vedic

tradition - no

> > wonder the hindu brahmin fanatics prior to the period of Mihira

never tried

> > to save those astrological texts - from extinction. The other

stalwart of

> > the same era, Aryabhata (AD 522) was a follower of Jain religion.

It should

> > be said that - together they saved this knowledge of Nirayana

astrology from

> > complete extinction.

> >

> > We have drifted away a bit during this discussion, from our major

subject

> > that is `Lagna lord in various house' but still I think it is

worth it. Now

> > let us go back and continue our study -

> >

> > The 9th house signifies things such as - luck, guru, vishnu, purana,

> > story telling, father, meditation, kind donations, righteous

deeds, devotion

> > etc. Thus the placement of lagna lord in 9th generates special

importance to

> > the derivations related to the same.

> >

> > - by Sreenadh (sreesog)

> >

> > =========================================

> > Love,

> > Sreenadh

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Haridas ji,

Ok - got it.

9th = Father => Lagna = Native => 5th = Native's child

The circle continues right? Yah, possibly that is why, any

appreciated and adopted it. Note that Parasara says 10th is father,

but Garga says 9th is father.

Good thought.

Love,

Sreenadh

 

, " Haridas Udupa "

<ahudupa wrote:

>

> Dear Mr. sreenadh,

> 5th from 9th is Lagna itself. If 9th is father then 5th from

it, the

> Lagna is child. It is a never ending cycle.

> Regards,

> Udupa

>

> On 10/2/07, Sreenadh <sreesog wrote:

> >

> > Dear Haridas ji,

> > 5th from what?!!

> >

> > 5th from 4th is - 8th

> > 5th from 9th is - Lagna

> > 5th from 5th is - 9th

> >

> > What do you mean? Please clarify.

> >

> > Note: 9th is - 4th (Mother's) 7th (Mother's) Brother (9th). The

> > custom of 'the girl marrying Mother's brother' is present among people

> > of Tamilnadu and was present possibly among Jains as well. That is why

> > 9th signify Father as per the jain sage - Garga.

> >

> > Love,

> > Sreenadh

> >

> > --- In

<%40.\

com>,

> > " Haridas Udupa "

> > <ahudupa@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Shri Sreenadh,

> > > 10th house, being 7th to 4th indicates mother's husband.

> > However, 9th

> > > house has to be father since 5th from it, is self (the natvie, the

> > child),

> > > the Lagna. So, 10th house may be used to indicate stepfather. Does

> > it sound

> > > logical?

> > > Regards,

> > > udupa

> > >

> > > On 10/2/07, Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear All,

> > > > Here is the info to start a discussion on 'Lagna lord in 9th

> > house'

> > > > . Let us have a worthy discussion on the same.

> > > > =========================================

> > > >

> > > > *

> > > > Lagna lord in 9th House

> > > > --

> > > > *

> > > >

> > > > If lagna lord is in 9th, the native would be lucky and dear to

> > people. He

> > > > will be a devotee of God Vishnu. He would an efficient individual,

> > efficient

> > > > especially in speech and oratory. With wife, children and good

> > amount of

> > > > wealth (essentials for a good worldly life) he will lead a good

> > life. He

> > > > will have many respectable relatives. He will do many good deeds

> > and would

> > > > be a righteous individual. It could be said that he is an

> > individual with

> > > > `Satwa Guna', meaning he will have the ability to keep the same

> > balanced

> > > > state of mind both in happiness and sadness. Bestowed with

many good

> > > > qualities, he will excel as a popular and radiant individual.

> > [Note that

> > > > father is NOT mentioned in any of the above results]

> > > >

> > > > *If lagna lord is in 9th, the native would be lucky and dear to

> > people. He

> > > > will be a devotee of God Vishnu. He would an efficient individual,

> > efficient

> > > > especially in speech and oratory. With wife, children and good

> > amount of

> > > > wealth (essentials for a good worldly life) he will lead a

good life.*

> > > >

> > > > *- Parasara Hora*

> > > >

> > > > Since 9th is the house signifying luck it is natural to say

that the

> > > > native would be lucky, and a devotee of god. But why God Vishnu?

> > There is

> > > > specific reason for this derivation. The trines signify the

> > trinity. Lagna

> > > > signifies Brahma; 9th Vishnu; 5th Siva. This derivation primarily

> > comes from

> > > > the zodiac itself. In the Zodiac Aries being the first sign

signifies

> > > > creation and thus Brahma; 5th being Leo, the house of Sun,

> > signifies Siva,

> > > > 9th being the Sagittarius, the house of Jupiter, signifies Vishnu.

> > There is

> > > > a saying `Jeevastu Narayana', meaning `Jupiter signifies

Narayana (God

> > > > Vishnu floating in the primordial ocean which caused the creation

> > of the

> > > > universe). Thus 9th signifies god Vishnu and that is why it is

> > derived that

> > > > lagna lord in 9th will make the native a devotee of God Vishnu.

> > Thus we get

> > > > a cute rule -

> > > >

> > > > *Rule 8: The significance of all the 12 houses are related to the

> > 12 signs

> > > > from Aries onwards as well. Aries could signify creation, so

as lagna;

> > > > Taurus could signify food so as 2nd and so on. Much significance

> > that gets

> > > > associated to the houses is derived in this way. This

> > understanding can be

> > > > used while deriving results using `House Base' system as well. *

> > > >

> > > > Parasara tells us that if lagna lord is in 9th he would be an

> > efficient

> > > > individual - why? Note that 9th is a house that is in the visible

> > part of

> > > > zodiac. (1 to 7 = Invisible or hidden half; 7 to 12 = visible or

> > popular

> > > > half). Thus the qualities of the native would be well visible to

> > the public;

> > > > he is lucky, spiritual, and righteous. All these help him in

being an

> > > > efficient and successful individual. But this logic does not help

> > us in

> > > > clarifying the derivation - he would be an efficient individual,

> > efficient

> > > > especially in speech and oratory. What speech has to do with 9th?

> > First it

> > > > may seem that - no, there is no relation. But note that

Parasara is

> > > > simply extending the previous rule stated. 9th Sign of zodiac is

> > Sagittarius

> > > > owned by Jupiter, and all the qualities such as Speech,

efficiency in

> > > > speech, interest in telling spiritual and puranic stories, good

> > knowledge

> > > > are all related to Jupiter itself. Thus it is quite natural to

> > derive the

> > > > result `the native would be efficient especially in speech and

> > oratory'.

> > > > This ability of the native will persist even to his old age, as

> > indicated by

> > > > the fact that 9th is 8th (longevity) from 2nd house (speech).

> > Lagna lord in

> > > > 9th gives beneficial results to 9th, causing longevity of speech,

> > or in

> > > > other words, the ability to amaze people with wonderful knowledge

> > bits and

> > > > excellent speaking abilities even in old age. Why it is said that

> > he would

> > > > live a good life with wife, children and wealth? Note that these

> > are the

> > > > prime conditions for being a lucky person in worldly life. As a

> > balanced,

> > > > efficient, lucky individual he is sure to have the prime

> > necessities for

> > > > worldly happiness - which happens to be `wife, children and

> > wealth'. Also

> > > > note that 9th is 5th from 5th, and in essence LL in 9th bestows

> > good results

> > > > for 5th indicating - beneficial results for children (5th house).

> > Similarly

> > > > 9th is 3rd, an upachaya (growth and well being) house from 7th.

> > Thus LL in

> > > > 9th gives beneficial results to 9th, indicating growth and

> > well-being of 7th

> > > > (wife) as well. LL in 9th aspects 3rd house, which is 2nd from 2nd

> > (a rule

> > > > discussed earlier) and thus provides good results for 2nd house as

> > well,

> > > > providing good wealth. Thus in short, it turns out that - `wealth,

> > wife and

> > > > children' is a well thought-out derivation, supported by logic in

> > many ways.

> > > >

> > > > *If lagna lord is in 9th, the native will have many respectable

> > relatives.

> > > > He will do many good deeds (He would a righteous individual); keep

> > the same

> > > > balanced state of mind both in happiness and sadness (He is an

> > individual

> > > > with `Satwa Guna') ; will have many good qualities. He will

excel as a

> > > > popular and radiant individual.*

> > > >

> > > > *- Meenaraja Hora*

> > > >

> > > > Why many respectable relatives - who are they? If Meenaraja

wanted to

> > > > indicate the native will have a good father, it would have been

> > easy to

> > > > understand, since 9th signifies father. But he says - `many

> > respectable

> > > > relatives'. Of course respectability is a quality of 9th house and

> > therefore

> > > > no doubt on that. A good respectable father is also a possibility.

> > What

> > > > about other relatives - intended? From the discussion of 3rd

house, we

> > > > already know that -

> > > >

> > > > In male horoscope, 9th house can indicate - wife's sister,

> > brother's wife,

> > > > sister's husband and wife's brother.

> > > >

> > > > In female horoscope, 9th house can indicate - husband's brother,

> > sister's

> > > > husband, brother's wife, husband's sister.

> > > >

> > > > Son's son and daughter, Daughter's son and daughter, Mother's

> > brother (the

> > > > traditional husband as per some sects) are also indicated by

9th house

> > > > itself.

> > > >

> > > > It is due to all these reasons that Meenaraja resorted to the

> > statement,

> > > > `LL in 9th (bestows good results for 9th and therefore) indicate

> > having many

> > > > respectable relatives to the native'.

> > > >

> > > > Meenaraja tells us that `the native will keep his equally balanced

> > state

> > > > of mind in happiness and sadness' - why? It is because he is a

> > spiritual

> > > > individual. Spiritual awareness helps the native to achieve the

> > same without

> > > > much effort. In a calm mind the divine reflects and the beneficial

> > results

> > > > follow. The remaining derivations of Meenaraja are also easy to

> > understand

> > > > in this context.

> > > >

> > > > Because we are discussing 9th house, there is unique point to

> > note. Why

> > > > 9th house signify father? If 4th is mother (as indicated by the

> > ownership of

> > > > Moon in Cancer, 4th sign from Aries), then the natural thing was

> > to say that

> > > > 10th signify father, since the same is 7th from 4th as well. But

> > all the

> > > > medieval texts, tell us that - father is signified by 9th house.

> > Why? Note

> > > > that 9th indicate `Mother's mother's brother - the traditional

> > husband as

> > > > per customs followed by several sects'. The Vedic tradition NEVER

> > supported

> > > > such a system - then how come astrological texts attribute the

> > significance

> > > > of father to 9th house instead of 10th? It would be interesting to

> > note the

> > > > following points in this context.

> > > >

> > > > * Only books of Jain (Garga hora etc) and South Indian tradition

> > attribute

> > > > 9th house to father. [i am yet to see any other ancient Rishi hora

> > sloka

> > > > (other than Garga Hora sloka) which attribute the significance of

> > `father'

> > > > to 9th house. Of course astrology did not originate in South India

> > but in

> > > > the banks of `Saraswati River'. It is the ancient Jain siddhas who

> > spread it

> > > > through out India, especially in south India]

> > > >

> > > > * All ancient text agree on the fact that 9th house signifies

Guru.

> > > >

> > > > * While discussing 4th house (and in many other places) Parasara

> > indicated

> > > > that father is signified by 10th house rather than 9th.

> > > >

> > > > * In many traditions (including non-vedic and vedic; Agama and

Nigama)

> > > > father was the first Guru of the native, especially related to

> > Upanayana

> > > > etc. Many texts say that - Guru IS father, equating both of them,

> > possibly

> > > > because Upanayana (providing sacred thread) is considered as the

> > second

> > > > birth of the native.

> > > >

> > > > I think -

> > > >

> > > > 1) Emphasis with Jain and South indian traditions attribute the

> > > > significance of father to 9th indicate that the tradition of

marrying

> > > > `mother's brother' was very common among both of them.

> > > >

> > > > 2) This points to the agama (non-vedic) origin of astrology as

> > well. Even

> > > > Mihira tells us that `Astrology is an Agama sastra'

emphasizing its

> > > > non-vedic nature. But Mihira was so authentic and popular, that

> > from the

> > > > period of Mihira onwards considering 9th as father got accepted by

> > almost

> > > > all the followers of astrology (south indian and north indian;

> > non-vedic and

> > > > vedic; Jain and Hindu) alike. Note that currently there is

> > almost

> > > > no text available (except BPHS) that tells us that - 10th house

> > signifies

> > > > father. It is cute fact to note.

> > > >

> > > > 3) Texts like Parasara hora (BC 1400) could be an effort to mix

> > the Agama

> > > > system of astrology (some streams of which like the Jains,

> > followed customs

> > > > like marrying `mother's brother') with the other streams

(which never

> > > > followed such a custom). This could be a controversial statement.

> > But if it

> > > > is so, this also points to the fact why texts like BPHS are

popular in

> > > > north, while south instead depends on older Rishi horas (like

> > Skanda hora,

> > > > Garga hora etc) and the text of Mihira who accepts that astrology

> > is an

> > > > Agama sastra (Knowledge of Tantric origin).

> > > >

> > > > 4) It is also possible that the above statement is wrong. It is

> > possible

> > > > that except Jains (Garga Hora) no other Rishi horas followed the

> > system of

> > > > ascribing the significance of father to 9th house (we need to

> > study the

> > > > available quotes). It is possible that any such indications we may

> > find in

> > > > BPHS are later interpolations. If the above statements are true we

> > would

> > > > have to resort to the statement " No Rishi Hora except Garga Hora

> > attributes

> > > > the significance of father to 9th house. As per them father is

> > signified by

> > > > 10th house " . This is a subject with good scope for astrological

> > research.

> > > > Research and come out with ancient quotes that support your

arguments.

> > > >

> > > > 5) Essentially thus the fact springs up that the Jain contribution

> > to the

> > > > development of astrology in India - is far more than what we

currently

> > > > ascribe them to. Similarly the contribution of Vedic tradition and

> > > > literature to the development of Nirayana astrology is far less

> > than what we

> > > > ascribe them to. Possibly ancient indian astrology is a branch of

> > science

> > > > developed by the Asura Tantric culture of Harappa (which covered

> > many other

> > > > parts of the world such as Iran, Assyria etc as well) and spread

> > throughout

> > > > India mostly through the Jain Siddhas. That was why it was

still Agama

> > > > sastra (Tantric knowledge branch) even at the period of Mihira

> > (i.e. AD

> > > > 550). Note that even Aryabhata was a Jain. Since Sage Garga - a

> > Jain sage -

> > > > who wrote Garga Hora lived around BC 1400, and was a contemporary

> > of Skanda

> > > > (the originator of Nirayana astrological knowledge who wrote

> > Skanda Hora),

> > > > it turns out that the Jain tradition is as old as Vedic tradition.

> > The Saiva

> > > > Agama tradition existed prior to that even in the Harappan period.

> > So the

> > > > flow of this eternal knowledge branch known as Nirayana Astrology

> > in ancient

> > > > India would be from Saiva Agama tradition to Jain Tradition to

> > South India

> > > > through the sea shore (Gujarat and Orissa). And then by the period

> > of Mihira

> > > > getting accepted by the whole of India - mixing both Agamic

Nirayana

> > > > Zodiacal astrology and Vedic Tropical Astrology. Mutual

> > interactions and

> > > > give and take must have happened in between as well - but it is

> > fair to say

> > > > that till the period of Mihira (AD 550), Nirayana zodiacal

> > Astrology and

> > > > Sayana Tropical astrology were treated separately in India - the

> > first

> > > > considered as Agamic and the second as Vedic (Nigamic). The

> > non-vedic nature

> > > > of astrology is also evident from the fact that, astrology texts

> > don't even

> > > > mention the name of Lagatha or his student Suchi, who wrote

the text

> > > > `Vedanga Jyotisha' in BC1400, a text dealing with astronomy and

> > calendar

> > > > system known to and followed by vedic tradition. Thus possibly all

> > the 18

> > > > sages mentioned by astrological classics were outside vedic

> > tradition - no

> > > > wonder the hindu brahmin fanatics prior to the period of Mihira

> > never tried

> > > > to save those astrological texts - from extinction. The other

> > stalwart of

> > > > the same era, Aryabhata (AD 522) was a follower of Jain religion.

> > It should

> > > > be said that - together they saved this knowledge of Nirayana

> > astrology from

> > > > complete extinction.

> > > >

> > > > We have drifted away a bit during this discussion, from our major

> > subject

> > > > that is `Lagna lord in various house' but still I think it is

> > worth it. Now

> > > > let us go back and continue our study -

> > > >

> > > > The 9th house signifies things such as - luck, guru, vishnu,

purana,

> > > > story telling, father, meditation, kind donations, righteous

> > deeds, devotion

> > > > etc. Thus the placement of lagna lord in 9th generates special

> > importance to

> > > > the derivations related to the same.

> > > >

> > > > - by Sreenadh (sreesog@)

> > > >

> > > > =========================================

> > > > Love,

> > > > Sreenadh

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Shri sreenadh, If I may expand this thought further, we can say that 10th is father by virtue of being mother's husband. If you take Kunti for example, for Pandavas, Pandu is represented by 10th house. But each of the pandavas have different fathers, 9th house. However, in most cases 9th as father, 10th as father are same. May be in ancient times it was an accepted practice to have children thro someone else if the legal father had some problem with procreation.

Regards,UdupaOn 10/2/07, Sreenadh <sreesog wrote:

 

 

 

 

Dear Haridas ji,

Ok - got it.

9th = Father => Lagna = Native => 5th = Native's child

The circle continues right? Yah, possibly that is why, any

appreciated and adopted it. Note that Parasara says 10th is father,

but Garga says 9th is father.

Good thought.

Love,

Sreenadh

 

, " Haridas Udupa "

<ahudupa wrote:

>

> Dear Mr. sreenadh,

> 5th from 9th is Lagna itself. If 9th is father then 5th from

it, the

> Lagna is child. It is a never ending cycle.

> Regards,

> Udupa

>

> On 10/2/07, Sreenadh <sreesog wrote:

> >

> > Dear Haridas ji,

> > 5th from what?!!

> >

> > 5th from 4th is - 8th

> > 5th from 9th is - Lagna

> > 5th from 5th is - 9th

> >

> > What do you mean? Please clarify.

> >

> > Note: 9th is - 4th (Mother's) 7th (Mother's) Brother (9th). The

> > custom of 'the girl marrying Mother's brother' is present among people

> > of Tamilnadu and was present possibly among Jains as well. That is why

> > 9th signify Father as per the jain sage - Garga.

> >

> > Love,

> > Sreenadh

> >

> > --- In

<%40>,

 

> > " Haridas Udupa "

> > <ahudupa@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Shri Sreenadh,

> > > 10th house, being 7th to 4th indicates mother's husband.

> > However, 9th

> > > house has to be father since 5th from it, is self (the natvie, the

> > child),

> > > the Lagna. So, 10th house may be used to indicate stepfather. Does

> > it sound

> > > logical?

> > > Regards,

> > > udupa

> > >

> > > On 10/2/07, Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear All,

> > > > Here is the info to start a discussion on 'Lagna lord in 9th

> > house'

> > > > . Let us have a worthy discussion on the same.

> > > > =========================================

> > > >

> > > > *

> > > > Lagna lord in 9th House

> > > > --

> > > > *

> > > >

> > > > If lagna lord is in 9th, the native would be lucky and dear to

> > people. He

> > > > will be a devotee of God Vishnu. He would an efficient individual,

> > efficient

> > > > especially in speech and oratory. With wife, children and good

> > amount of

> > > > wealth (essentials for a good worldly life) he will lead a good

> > life. He

> > > > will have many respectable relatives. He will do many good deeds

> > and would

> > > > be a righteous individual. It could be said that he is an

> > individual with

> > > > `Satwa Guna', meaning he will have the ability to keep the same

> > balanced

> > > > state of mind both in happiness and sadness. Bestowed with

many good

> > > > qualities, he will excel as a popular and radiant individual.

> > [Note that

> > > > father is NOT mentioned in any of the above results]

> > > >

> > > > *If lagna lord is in 9th, the native would be lucky and dear to

> > people. He

> > > > will be a devotee of God Vishnu. He would an efficient individual,

> > efficient

> > > > especially in speech and oratory. With wife, children and good

> > amount of

> > > > wealth (essentials for a good worldly life) he will lead a

good life.*

> > > >

> > > > *- Parasara Hora*

> > > >

> > > > Since 9th is the house signifying luck it is natural to say

that the

> > > > native would be lucky, and a devotee of god. But why God Vishnu?

> > There is

> > > > specific reason for this derivation. The trines signify the

> > trinity. Lagna

> > > > signifies Brahma; 9th Vishnu; 5th Siva. This derivation primarily

> > comes from

> > > > the zodiac itself. In the Zodiac Aries being the first sign

signifies

> > > > creation and thus Brahma; 5th being Leo, the house of Sun,

> > signifies Siva,

> > > > 9th being the Sagittarius, the house of Jupiter, signifies Vishnu.

> > There is

> > > > a saying `Jeevastu Narayana', meaning `Jupiter signifies

Narayana (God

> > > > Vishnu floating in the primordial ocean which caused the creation

> > of the

> > > > universe). Thus 9th signifies god Vishnu and that is why it is

> > derived that

> > > > lagna lord in 9th will make the native a devotee of God Vishnu.

> > Thus we get

> > > > a cute rule -

> > > >

> > > > *Rule 8: The significance of all the 12 houses are related to the

> > 12 signs

> > > > from Aries onwards as well. Aries could signify creation, so

as lagna;

> > > > Taurus could signify food so as 2nd and so on. Much significance

> > that gets

> > > > associated to the houses is derived in this way. This

> > understanding can be

> > > > used while deriving results using `House Base' system as well. *

> > > >

> > > > Parasara tells us that if lagna lord is in 9th he would be an

> > efficient

> > > > individual - why? Note that 9th is a house that is in the visible

> > part of

> > > > zodiac. (1 to 7 = Invisible or hidden half; 7 to 12 = visible or

> > popular

> > > > half). Thus the qualities of the native would be well visible to

> > the public;

> > > > he is lucky, spiritual, and righteous. All these help him in

being an

> > > > efficient and successful individual. But this logic does not help

> > us in

> > > > clarifying the derivation - he would be an efficient individual,

> > efficient

> > > > especially in speech and oratory. What speech has to do with 9th?

> > First it

> > > > may seem that - no, there is no relation. But note that

Parasara is

> > > > simply extending the previous rule stated. 9th Sign of zodiac is

> > Sagittarius

> > > > owned by Jupiter, and all the qualities such as Speech,

efficiency in

> > > > speech, interest in telling spiritual and puranic stories, good

> > knowledge

> > > > are all related to Jupiter itself. Thus it is quite natural to

> > derive the

> > > > result `the native would be efficient especially in speech and

> > oratory'.

> > > > This ability of the native will persist even to his old age, as

> > indicated by

> > > > the fact that 9th is 8th (longevity) from 2nd house (speech).

> > Lagna lord in

> > > > 9th gives beneficial results to 9th, causing longevity of speech,

> > or in

> > > > other words, the ability to amaze people with wonderful knowledge

> > bits and

> > > > excellent speaking abilities even in old age. Why it is said that

> > he would

> > > > live a good life with wife, children and wealth? Note that these

> > are the

> > > > prime conditions for being a lucky person in worldly life. As a

> > balanced,

> > > > efficient, lucky individual he is sure to have the prime

> > necessities for

> > > > worldly happiness - which happens to be `wife, children and

> > wealth'. Also

> > > > note that 9th is 5th from 5th, and in essence LL in 9th bestows

> > good results

> > > > for 5th indicating - beneficial results for children (5th house).

> > Similarly

> > > > 9th is 3rd, an upachaya (growth and well being) house from 7th.

> > Thus LL in

> > > > 9th gives beneficial results to 9th, indicating growth and

> > well-being of 7th

> > > > (wife) as well. LL in 9th aspects 3rd house, which is 2nd from 2nd

> > (a rule

> > > > discussed earlier) and thus provides good results for 2nd house as

> > well,

> > > > providing good wealth. Thus in short, it turns out that - `wealth,

> > wife and

> > > > children' is a well thought-out derivation, supported by logic in

> > many ways.

> > > >

> > > > *If lagna lord is in 9th, the native will have many respectable

> > relatives.

> > > > He will do many good deeds (He would a righteous individual); keep

> > the same

> > > > balanced state of mind both in happiness and sadness (He is an

> > individual

> > > > with `Satwa Guna') ; will have many good qualities. He will

excel as a

> > > > popular and radiant individual.*

> > > >

> > > > *- Meenaraja Hora*

> > > >

> > > > Why many respectable relatives - who are they? If Meenaraja

wanted to

> > > > indicate the native will have a good father, it would have been

> > easy to

> > > > understand, since 9th signifies father. But he says - `many

> > respectable

> > > > relatives'. Of course respectability is a quality of 9th house and

> > therefore

> > > > no doubt on that. A good respectable father is also a possibility.

> > What

> > > > about other relatives - intended? From the discussion of 3rd

house, we

> > > > already know that -

> > > >

> > > > In male horoscope, 9th house can indicate - wife's sister,

> > brother's wife,

> > > > sister's husband and wife's brother.

> > > >

> > > > In female horoscope, 9th house can indicate - husband's brother,

> > sister's

> > > > husband, brother's wife, husband's sister.

> > > >

> > > > Son's son and daughter, Daughter's son and daughter, Mother's

> > brother (the

> > > > traditional husband as per some sects) are also indicated by

9th house

> > > > itself.

> > > >

> > > > It is due to all these reasons that Meenaraja resorted to the

> > statement,

> > > > `LL in 9th (bestows good results for 9th and therefore) indicate

> > having many

> > > > respectable relatives to the native'.

> > > >

> > > > Meenaraja tells us that `the native will keep his equally balanced

> > state

> > > > of mind in happiness and sadness' - why? It is because he is a

> > spiritual

> > > > individual. Spiritual awareness helps the native to achieve the

> > same without

> > > > much effort. In a calm mind the divine reflects and the beneficial

> > results

> > > > follow. The remaining derivations of Meenaraja are also easy to

> > understand

> > > > in this context.

> > > >

> > > > Because we are discussing 9th house, there is unique point to

> > note. Why

> > > > 9th house signify father? If 4th is mother (as indicated by the

> > ownership of

> > > > Moon in Cancer, 4th sign from Aries), then the natural thing was

> > to say that

> > > > 10th signify father, since the same is 7th from 4th as well. But

> > all the

> > > > medieval texts, tell us that - father is signified by 9th house.

> > Why? Note

> > > > that 9th indicate `Mother's mother's brother - the traditional

> > husband as

> > > > per customs followed by several sects'. The Vedic tradition NEVER

> > supported

> > > > such a system - then how come astrological texts attribute the

> > significance

> > > > of father to 9th house instead of 10th? It would be interesting to

> > note the

> > > > following points in this context.

> > > >

> > > > * Only books of Jain (Garga hora etc) and South Indian tradition

> > attribute

> > > > 9th house to father. [i am yet to see any other ancient Rishi hora

> > sloka

> > > > (other than Garga Hora sloka) which attribute the significance of

> > `father'

> > > > to 9th house. Of course astrology did not originate in South India

> > but in

> > > > the banks of `Saraswati River'. It is the ancient Jain siddhas who

> > spread it

> > > > through out India, especially in south India]

> > > >

> > > > * All ancient text agree on the fact that 9th house signifies

Guru.

> > > >

> > > > * While discussing 4th house (and in many other places) Parasara

> > indicated

> > > > that father is signified by 10th house rather than 9th.

> > > >

> > > > * In many traditions (including non-vedic and vedic; Agama and

Nigama)

> > > > father was the first Guru of the native, especially related to

> > Upanayana

> > > > etc. Many texts say that - Guru IS father, equating both of them,

> > possibly

> > > > because Upanayana (providing sacred thread) is considered as the

> > second

> > > > birth of the native.

> > > >

> > > > I think -

> > > >

> > > > 1) Emphasis with Jain and South indian traditions attribute the

> > > > significance of father to 9th indicate that the tradition of

marrying

> > > > `mother's brother' was very common among both of them.

> > > >

> > > > 2) This points to the agama (non-vedic) origin of astrology as

> > well. Even

> > > > Mihira tells us that `Astrology is an Agama sastra'

emphasizing its

> > > > non-vedic nature. But Mihira was so authentic and popular, that

> > from the

> > > > period of Mihira onwards considering 9th as father got accepted by

> > almost

> > > > all the followers of astrology (south indian and north indian;

> > non-vedic and

> > > > vedic; Jain and Hindu) alike. Note that currently there is

> > almost

> > > > no text available (except BPHS) that tells us that - 10th house

> > signifies

> > > > father. It is cute fact to note.

> > > >

> > > > 3) Texts like Parasara hora (BC 1400) could be an effort to mix

> > the Agama

> > > > system of astrology (some streams of which like the Jains,

> > followed customs

> > > > like marrying `mother's brother') with the other streams

(which never

> > > > followed such a custom). This could be a controversial statement.

> > But if it

> > > > is so, this also points to the fact why texts like BPHS are

popular in

> > > > north, while south instead depends on older Rishi horas (like

> > Skanda hora,

> > > > Garga hora etc) and the text of Mihira who accepts that astrology

> > is an

> > > > Agama sastra (Knowledge of Tantric origin).

> > > >

> > > > 4) It is also possible that the above statement is wrong. It is

> > possible

> > > > that except Jains (Garga Hora) no other Rishi horas followed the

> > system of

> > > > ascribing the significance of father to 9th house (we need to

> > study the

> > > > available quotes). It is possible that any such indications we may

> > find in

> > > > BPHS are later interpolations. If the above statements are true we

> > would

> > > > have to resort to the statement " No Rishi Hora except Garga Hora

> > attributes

> > > > the significance of father to 9th house. As per them father is

> > signified by

> > > > 10th house " . This is a subject with good scope for astrological

> > research.

> > > > Research and come out with ancient quotes that support your

arguments.

> > > >

> > > > 5) Essentially thus the fact springs up that the Jain contribution

> > to the

> > > > development of astrology in India - is far more than what we

currently

> > > > ascribe them to. Similarly the contribution of Vedic tradition and

> > > > literature to the development of Nirayana astrology is far less

> > than what we

> > > > ascribe them to. Possibly ancient indian astrology is a branch of

> > science

> > > > developed by the Asura Tantric culture of Harappa (which covered

> > many other

> > > > parts of the world such as Iran, Assyria etc as well) and spread

> > throughout

> > > > India mostly through the Jain Siddhas. That was why it was

still Agama

> > > > sastra (Tantric knowledge branch) even at the period of Mihira

> > (i.e. AD

> > > > 550). Note that even Aryabhata was a Jain. Since Sage Garga - a

> > Jain sage -

> > > > who wrote Garga Hora lived around BC 1400, and was a contemporary

> > of Skanda

> > > > (the originator of Nirayana astrological knowledge who wrote

> > Skanda Hora),

> > > > it turns out that the Jain tradition is as old as Vedic tradition.

> > The Saiva

> > > > Agama tradition existed prior to that even in the Harappan period.

> > So the

> > > > flow of this eternal knowledge branch known as Nirayana Astrology

> > in ancient

> > > > India would be from Saiva Agama tradition to Jain Tradition to

> > South India

> > > > through the sea shore (Gujarat and Orissa). And then by the period

> > of Mihira

> > > > getting accepted by the whole of India - mixing both Agamic

Nirayana

> > > > Zodiacal astrology and Vedic Tropical Astrology. Mutual

> > interactions and

> > > > give and take must have happened in between as well - but it is

> > fair to say

> > > > that till the period of Mihira (AD 550), Nirayana zodiacal

> > Astrology and

> > > > Sayana Tropical astrology were treated separately in India - the

> > first

> > > > considered as Agamic and the second as Vedic (Nigamic). The

> > non-vedic nature

> > > > of astrology is also evident from the fact that, astrology texts

> > don't even

> > > > mention the name of Lagatha or his student Suchi, who wrote

the text

> > > > `Vedanga Jyotisha' in BC1400, a text dealing with astronomy and

> > calendar

> > > > system known to and followed by vedic tradition. Thus possibly all

> > the 18

> > > > sages mentioned by astrological classics were outside vedic

> > tradition - no

> > > > wonder the hindu brahmin fanatics prior to the period of Mihira

> > never tried

> > > > to save those astrological texts - from extinction. The other

> > stalwart of

> > > > the same era, Aryabhata (AD 522) was a follower of Jain religion.

> > It should

> > > > be said that - together they saved this knowledge of Nirayana

> > astrology from

> > > > complete extinction.

> > > >

> > > > We have drifted away a bit during this discussion, from our major

> > subject

> > > > that is `Lagna lord in various house' but still I think it is

> > worth it. Now

> > > > let us go back and continue our study -

> > > >

> > > > The 9th house signifies things such as - luck, guru, vishnu,

purana,

> > > > story telling, father, meditation, kind donations, righteous

> > deeds, devotion

> > > > etc. Thus the placement of lagna lord in 9th generates special

> > importance to

> > > > the derivations related to the same.

> > > >

> > > > - by Sreenadh (sreesog@)

> > > >

> > > > =========================================

> > > > Love,

> > > > Sreenadh

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Possibly...

, " Haridas Udupa "

<ahudupa wrote:

>

> Dear Shri sreenadh,

> If I may expand this thought further, we can say that 10th is

father by

> virtue of being mother's husband. If you take Kunti for example, for

> Pandavas, Pandu is represented by 10th house. But each of the

pandavas have

> different fathers, 9th house. However, in most cases 9th as father,

10th as

> father are same. May be in ancient times it was an accepted practice

to have

> children thro someone else if the legal father had some problem with

> procreation.

> Regards,

> Udupa

>

> On 10/2/07, Sreenadh <sreesog wrote:

> >

> > Dear Haridas ji,

> > Ok - got it.

> > 9th = Father => Lagna = Native => 5th = Native's child

> > The circle continues right? Yah, possibly that is why, any

> > appreciated and adopted it. Note that Parasara says 10th is father,

> > but Garga says 9th is father.

> > Good thought.

> > Love,

> > Sreenadh

> >

> > --- In

<%40.\

com>,

> > " Haridas Udupa "

> > <ahudupa@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Mr. sreenadh,

> > > 5th from 9th is Lagna itself. If 9th is father then 5th from

> > it, the

> > > Lagna is child. It is a never ending cycle.

> > > Regards,

> > > Udupa

> > >

> > > On 10/2/07, Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Haridas ji,

> > > > 5th from what?!!

> > > >

> > > > 5th from 4th is - 8th

> > > > 5th from 9th is - Lagna

> > > > 5th from 5th is - 9th

> > > >

> > > > What do you mean? Please clarify.

> > > >

> > > > Note: 9th is - 4th (Mother's) 7th (Mother's) Brother (9th). The

> > > > custom of 'the girl marrying Mother's brother' is present

among people

> > > > of Tamilnadu and was present possibly among Jains as well.

That is why

> > > > 9th signify Father as per the jain sage - Garga.

> > > >

> > > > Love,

> > > > Sreenadh

> > > >

> > > > --- In

> >

<%40.\

com>

> > <%40>,

> >

> > > > " Haridas Udupa "

> > > > <ahudupa@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Shri Sreenadh,

> > > > > 10th house, being 7th to 4th indicates mother's husband.

> > > > However, 9th

> > > > > house has to be father since 5th from it, is self (the

natvie, the

> > > > child),

> > > > > the Lagna. So, 10th house may be used to indicate

stepfather. Does

> > > > it sound

> > > > > logical?

> > > > > Regards,

> > > > > udupa

> > > > >

> > > > > On 10/2/07, Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear All,

> > > > > > Here is the info to start a discussion on 'Lagna lord in 9th

> > > > house'

> > > > > > . Let us have a worthy discussion on the same.

> > > > > > =========================================

> > > > > >

> > > > > > *

> > > > > > Lagna lord in 9th House

> > > > > > --

> > > > > > *

> > > > > >

> > > > > > If lagna lord is in 9th, the native would be lucky and dear to

> > > > people. He

> > > > > > will be a devotee of God Vishnu. He would an efficient

individual,

> > > > efficient

> > > > > > especially in speech and oratory. With wife, children and good

> > > > amount of

> > > > > > wealth (essentials for a good worldly life) he will lead a

good

> > > > life. He

> > > > > > will have many respectable relatives. He will do many good

deeds

> > > > and would

> > > > > > be a righteous individual. It could be said that he is an

> > > > individual with

> > > > > > `Satwa Guna', meaning he will have the ability to keep the

same

> > > > balanced

> > > > > > state of mind both in happiness and sadness. Bestowed with

> > many good

> > > > > > qualities, he will excel as a popular and radiant individual.

> > > > [Note that

> > > > > > father is NOT mentioned in any of the above results]

> > > > > >

> > > > > > *If lagna lord is in 9th, the native would be lucky and

dear to

> > > > people. He

> > > > > > will be a devotee of God Vishnu. He would an efficient

individual,

> > > > efficient

> > > > > > especially in speech and oratory. With wife, children and good

> > > > amount of

> > > > > > wealth (essentials for a good worldly life) he will lead a

> > good life.*

> > > > > >

> > > > > > *- Parasara Hora*

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Since 9th is the house signifying luck it is natural to say

> > that the

> > > > > > native would be lucky, and a devotee of god. But why God

Vishnu?

> > > > There is

> > > > > > specific reason for this derivation. The trines signify the

> > > > trinity. Lagna

> > > > > > signifies Brahma; 9th Vishnu; 5th Siva. This derivation

primarily

> > > > comes from

> > > > > > the zodiac itself. In the Zodiac Aries being the first sign

> > signifies

> > > > > > creation and thus Brahma; 5th being Leo, the house of Sun,

> > > > signifies Siva,

> > > > > > 9th being the Sagittarius, the house of Jupiter, signifies

Vishnu.

> > > > There is

> > > > > > a saying `Jeevastu Narayana', meaning `Jupiter signifies

> > Narayana (God

> > > > > > Vishnu floating in the primordial ocean which caused the

creation

> > > > of the

> > > > > > universe). Thus 9th signifies god Vishnu and that is why it is

> > > > derived that

> > > > > > lagna lord in 9th will make the native a devotee of God

Vishnu.

> > > > Thus we get

> > > > > > a cute rule -

> > > > > >

> > > > > > *Rule 8: The significance of all the 12 houses are related

to the

> > > > 12 signs

> > > > > > from Aries onwards as well. Aries could signify creation, so

> > as lagna;

> > > > > > Taurus could signify food so as 2nd and so on. Much

significance

> > > > that gets

> > > > > > associated to the houses is derived in this way. This

> > > > understanding can be

> > > > > > used while deriving results using `House Base' system as

well. *

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Parasara tells us that if lagna lord is in 9th he would be an

> > > > efficient

> > > > > > individual - why? Note that 9th is a house that is in the

visible

> > > > part of

> > > > > > zodiac. (1 to 7 = Invisible or hidden half; 7 to 12 =

visible or

> > > > popular

> > > > > > half). Thus the qualities of the native would be well

visible to

> > > > the public;

> > > > > > he is lucky, spiritual, and righteous. All these help him in

> > being an

> > > > > > efficient and successful individual. But this logic does

not help

> > > > us in

> > > > > > clarifying the derivation - he would be an efficient

individual,

> > > > efficient

> > > > > > especially in speech and oratory. What speech has to do

with 9th?

> > > > First it

> > > > > > may seem that - no, there is no relation. But note that

> > Parasara is

> > > > > > simply extending the previous rule stated. 9th Sign of

zodiac is

> > > > Sagittarius

> > > > > > owned by Jupiter, and all the qualities such as Speech,

> > efficiency in

> > > > > > speech, interest in telling spiritual and puranic stories,

good

> > > > knowledge

> > > > > > are all related to Jupiter itself. Thus it is quite natural to

> > > > derive the

> > > > > > result `the native would be efficient especially in speech and

> > > > oratory'.

> > > > > > This ability of the native will persist even to his old

age, as

> > > > indicated by

> > > > > > the fact that 9th is 8th (longevity) from 2nd house (speech).

> > > > Lagna lord in

> > > > > > 9th gives beneficial results to 9th, causing longevity of

speech,

> > > > or in

> > > > > > other words, the ability to amaze people with wonderful

knowledge

> > > > bits and

> > > > > > excellent speaking abilities even in old age. Why it is

said that

> > > > he would

> > > > > > live a good life with wife, children and wealth? Note that

these

> > > > are the

> > > > > > prime conditions for being a lucky person in worldly life.

As a

> > > > balanced,

> > > > > > efficient, lucky individual he is sure to have the prime

> > > > necessities for

> > > > > > worldly happiness - which happens to be `wife, children and

> > > > wealth'. Also

> > > > > > note that 9th is 5th from 5th, and in essence LL in 9th

bestows

> > > > good results

> > > > > > for 5th indicating - beneficial results for children (5th

house).

> > > > Similarly

> > > > > > 9th is 3rd, an upachaya (growth and well being) house from

7th.

> > > > Thus LL in

> > > > > > 9th gives beneficial results to 9th, indicating growth and

> > > > well-being of 7th

> > > > > > (wife) as well. LL in 9th aspects 3rd house, which is 2nd

from 2nd

> > > > (a rule

> > > > > > discussed earlier) and thus provides good results for 2nd

house as

> > > > well,

> > > > > > providing good wealth. Thus in short, it turns out that -

`wealth,

> > > > wife and

> > > > > > children' is a well thought-out derivation, supported by

logic in

> > > > many ways.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > *If lagna lord is in 9th, the native will have many

respectable

> > > > relatives.

> > > > > > He will do many good deeds (He would a righteous

individual); keep

> > > > the same

> > > > > > balanced state of mind both in happiness and sadness (He is an

> > > > individual

> > > > > > with `Satwa Guna') ; will have many good qualities. He will

> > excel as a

> > > > > > popular and radiant individual.*

> > > > > >

> > > > > > *- Meenaraja Hora*

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Why many respectable relatives - who are they? If Meenaraja

> > wanted to

> > > > > > indicate the native will have a good father, it would have

been

> > > > easy to

> > > > > > understand, since 9th signifies father. But he says - `many

> > > > respectable

> > > > > > relatives'. Of course respectability is a quality of 9th

house and

> > > > therefore

> > > > > > no doubt on that. A good respectable father is also a

possibility.

> > > > What

> > > > > > about other relatives - intended? From the discussion of 3rd

> > house, we

> > > > > > already know that -

> > > > > >

> > > > > > In male horoscope, 9th house can indicate - wife's sister,

> > > > brother's wife,

> > > > > > sister's husband and wife's brother.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > In female horoscope, 9th house can indicate - husband's

brother,

> > > > sister's

> > > > > > husband, brother's wife, husband's sister.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Son's son and daughter, Daughter's son and daughter, Mother's

> > > > brother (the

> > > > > > traditional husband as per some sects) are also indicated by

> > 9th house

> > > > > > itself.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > It is due to all these reasons that Meenaraja resorted to the

> > > > statement,

> > > > > > `LL in 9th (bestows good results for 9th and therefore)

indicate

> > > > having many

> > > > > > respectable relatives to the native'.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Meenaraja tells us that `the native will keep his equally

balanced

> > > > state

> > > > > > of mind in happiness and sadness' - why? It is because he is a

> > > > spiritual

> > > > > > individual. Spiritual awareness helps the native to

achieve the

> > > > same without

> > > > > > much effort. In a calm mind the divine reflects and the

beneficial

> > > > results

> > > > > > follow. The remaining derivations of Meenaraja are also

easy to

> > > > understand

> > > > > > in this context.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Because we are discussing 9th house, there is unique point to

> > > > note. Why

> > > > > > 9th house signify father? If 4th is mother (as indicated

by the

> > > > ownership of

> > > > > > Moon in Cancer, 4th sign from Aries), then the natural

thing was

> > > > to say that

> > > > > > 10th signify father, since the same is 7th from 4th as

well. But

> > > > all the

> > > > > > medieval texts, tell us that - father is signified by 9th

house.

> > > > Why? Note

> > > > > > that 9th indicate `Mother's mother's brother - the traditional

> > > > husband as

> > > > > > per customs followed by several sects'. The Vedic

tradition NEVER

> > > > supported

> > > > > > such a system - then how come astrological texts attribute the

> > > > significance

> > > > > > of father to 9th house instead of 10th? It would be

interesting to

> > > > note the

> > > > > > following points in this context.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > * Only books of Jain (Garga hora etc) and South Indian

tradition

> > > > attribute

> > > > > > 9th house to father. [i am yet to see any other ancient

Rishi hora

> > > > sloka

> > > > > > (other than Garga Hora sloka) which attribute the

significance of

> > > > `father'

> > > > > > to 9th house. Of course astrology did not originate in

South India

> > > > but in

> > > > > > the banks of `Saraswati River'. It is the ancient Jain

siddhas who

> > > > spread it

> > > > > > through out India, especially in south India]

> > > > > >

> > > > > > * All ancient text agree on the fact that 9th house signifies

> > Guru.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > * While discussing 4th house (and in many other places)

Parasara

> > > > indicated

> > > > > > that father is signified by 10th house rather than 9th.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > * In many traditions (including non-vedic and vedic; Agama and

> > Nigama)

> > > > > > father was the first Guru of the native, especially related to

> > > > Upanayana

> > > > > > etc. Many texts say that - Guru IS father, equating both

of them,

> > > > possibly

> > > > > > because Upanayana (providing sacred thread) is considered

as the

> > > > second

> > > > > > birth of the native.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I think -

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 1) Emphasis with Jain and South indian traditions

attribute the

> > > > > > significance of father to 9th indicate that the tradition of

> > marrying

> > > > > > `mother's brother' was very common among both of them.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 2) This points to the agama (non-vedic) origin of astrology as

> > > > well. Even

> > > > > > Mihira tells us that `Astrology is an Agama sastra'

> > emphasizing its

> > > > > > non-vedic nature. But Mihira was so authentic and popular,

that

> > > > from the

> > > > > > period of Mihira onwards considering 9th as father got

accepted by

> > > > almost

> > > > > > all the followers of astrology (south indian and north indian;

> > > > non-vedic and

> > > > > > vedic; Jain and Hindu) alike. Note that currently there is

> > > > almost

> > > > > > no text available (except BPHS) that tells us that - 10th

house

> > > > signifies

> > > > > > father. It is cute fact to note.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 3) Texts like Parasara hora (BC 1400) could be an effort

to mix

> > > > the Agama

> > > > > > system of astrology (some streams of which like the Jains,

> > > > followed customs

> > > > > > like marrying `mother's brother') with the other streams

> > (which never

> > > > > > followed such a custom). This could be a controversial

statement.

> > > > But if it

> > > > > > is so, this also points to the fact why texts like BPHS are

> > popular in

> > > > > > north, while south instead depends on older Rishi horas (like

> > > > Skanda hora,

> > > > > > Garga hora etc) and the text of Mihira who accepts that

astrology

> > > > is an

> > > > > > Agama sastra (Knowledge of Tantric origin).

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 4) It is also possible that the above statement is wrong.

It is

> > > > possible

> > > > > > that except Jains (Garga Hora) no other Rishi horas

followed the

> > > > system of

> > > > > > ascribing the significance of father to 9th house (we need to

> > > > study the

> > > > > > available quotes). It is possible that any such

indications we may

> > > > find in

> > > > > > BPHS are later interpolations. If the above statements are

true we

> > > > would

> > > > > > have to resort to the statement " No Rishi Hora except

Garga Hora

> > > > attributes

> > > > > > the significance of father to 9th house. As per them father is

> > > > signified by

> > > > > > 10th house " . This is a subject with good scope for

astrological

> > > > research.

> > > > > > Research and come out with ancient quotes that support your

> > arguments.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 5) Essentially thus the fact springs up that the Jain

contribution

> > > > to the

> > > > > > development of astrology in India - is far more than what we

> > currently

> > > > > > ascribe them to. Similarly the contribution of Vedic

tradition and

> > > > > > literature to the development of Nirayana astrology is far

less

> > > > than what we

> > > > > > ascribe them to. Possibly ancient indian astrology is a

branch of

> > > > science

> > > > > > developed by the Asura Tantric culture of Harappa (which

covered

> > > > many other

> > > > > > parts of the world such as Iran, Assyria etc as well) and

spread

> > > > throughout

> > > > > > India mostly through the Jain Siddhas. That was why it was

> > still Agama

> > > > > > sastra (Tantric knowledge branch) even at the period of Mihira

> > > > (i.e. AD

> > > > > > 550). Note that even Aryabhata was a Jain. Since Sage

Garga - a

> > > > Jain sage -

> > > > > > who wrote Garga Hora lived around BC 1400, and was a

contemporary

> > > > of Skanda

> > > > > > (the originator of Nirayana astrological knowledge who wrote

> > > > Skanda Hora),

> > > > > > it turns out that the Jain tradition is as old as Vedic

tradition.

> > > > The Saiva

> > > > > > Agama tradition existed prior to that even in the Harappan

period.

> > > > So the

> > > > > > flow of this eternal knowledge branch known as Nirayana

Astrology

> > > > in ancient

> > > > > > India would be from Saiva Agama tradition to Jain Tradition to

> > > > South India

> > > > > > through the sea shore (Gujarat and Orissa). And then by

the period

> > > > of Mihira

> > > > > > getting accepted by the whole of India - mixing both Agamic

> > Nirayana

> > > > > > Zodiacal astrology and Vedic Tropical Astrology. Mutual

> > > > interactions and

> > > > > > give and take must have happened in between as well - but

it is

> > > > fair to say

> > > > > > that till the period of Mihira (AD 550), Nirayana zodiacal

> > > > Astrology and

> > > > > > Sayana Tropical astrology were treated separately in India

- the

> > > > first

> > > > > > considered as Agamic and the second as Vedic (Nigamic). The

> > > > non-vedic nature

> > > > > > of astrology is also evident from the fact that, astrology

texts

> > > > don't even

> > > > > > mention the name of Lagatha or his student Suchi, who wrote

> > the text

> > > > > > `Vedanga Jyotisha' in BC1400, a text dealing with

astronomy and

> > > > calendar

> > > > > > system known to and followed by vedic tradition. Thus

possibly all

> > > > the 18

> > > > > > sages mentioned by astrological classics were outside vedic

> > > > tradition - no

> > > > > > wonder the hindu brahmin fanatics prior to the period of

Mihira

> > > > never tried

> > > > > > to save those astrological texts - from extinction. The other

> > > > stalwart of

> > > > > > the same era, Aryabhata (AD 522) was a follower of Jain

religion.

> > > > It should

> > > > > > be said that - together they saved this knowledge of Nirayana

> > > > astrology from

> > > > > > complete extinction.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > We have drifted away a bit during this discussion, from

our major

> > > > subject

> > > > > > that is `Lagna lord in various house' but still I think it is

> > > > worth it. Now

> > > > > > let us go back and continue our study -

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The 9th house signifies things such as - luck, guru, vishnu,

> > purana,

> > > > > > story telling, father, meditation, kind donations, righteous

> > > > deeds, devotion

> > > > > > etc. Thus the placement of lagna lord in 9th generates special

> > > > importance to

> > > > > > the derivations related to the same.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > - by Sreenadh (sreesog@)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > =========================================

> > > > > > Love,

> > > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Sreenadh ji,

 

I don't know about the ancient times. But if one look at the present

world, there's ample evidence to denote 9H as father. 9H is the 6th,

the house of enemey, rival etc. etc. from 4H representing mother.

And today in most marriages father can be mother's adversary...I'd

rather not use the word 'enemey'.

 

Then even in ancient times and also today, a man may vanish after

fathering a child, naturally becoming the mother's arch-enemey.

Hence it is fair enough to attribute 6H to father...under certain

circumstances....

 

Just a thought from a women's perceptive..You can take it

lightly/seriously

 

blessings

 

Renu

, " Sreenadh "

<sreesog wrote:

>

> Possibly...

> , " Haridas Udupa "

> <ahudupa@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Shri sreenadh,

> > If I may expand this thought further, we can say that 10th is

> father by

> > virtue of being mother's husband. If you take Kunti for example,

for

> > Pandavas, Pandu is represented by 10th house. But each of the

> pandavas have

> > different fathers, 9th house. However, in most cases 9th as

father,

> 10th as

> > father are same. May be in ancient times it was an accepted

practice

> to have

> > children thro someone else if the legal father had some problem

with

> > procreation.

> > Regards,

> > Udupa

> >

> > On 10/2/07, Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Haridas ji,

> > > Ok - got it.

> > > 9th = Father => Lagna = Native => 5th = Native's child

> > > The circle continues right? Yah, possibly that is why, any

> > > appreciated and adopted it. Note that Parasara says 10th is

father,

> > > but Garga says 9th is father.

> > > Good thought.

> > > Love,

> > > Sreenadh

> > >

> > > --- In

> <%

40>,

> > > " Haridas Udupa "

> > > <ahudupa@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Mr. sreenadh,

> > > > 5th from 9th is Lagna itself. If 9th is father then 5th from

> > > it, the

> > > > Lagna is child. It is a never ending cycle.

> > > > Regards,

> > > > Udupa

> > > >

> > > > On 10/2/07, Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Haridas ji,

> > > > > 5th from what?!!

> > > > >

> > > > > 5th from 4th is - 8th

> > > > > 5th from 9th is - Lagna

> > > > > 5th from 5th is - 9th

> > > > >

> > > > > What do you mean? Please clarify.

> > > > >

> > > > > Note: 9th is - 4th (Mother's) 7th (Mother's) Brother

(9th). The

> > > > > custom of 'the girl marrying Mother's brother' is present

> among people

> > > > > of Tamilnadu and was present possibly among Jains as well.

> That is why

> > > > > 9th signify Father as per the jain sage - Garga.

> > > > >

> > > > > Love,

> > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > >

> > > > > --- In

> > >

> <%

40>

> > > <%40>,

> > >

> > > > > " Haridas Udupa "

> > > > > <ahudupa@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Shri Sreenadh,

> > > > > > 10th house, being 7th to 4th indicates mother's husband.

> > > > > However, 9th

> > > > > > house has to be father since 5th from it, is self (the

> natvie, the

> > > > > child),

> > > > > > the Lagna. So, 10th house may be used to indicate

> stepfather. Does

> > > > > it sound

> > > > > > logical?

> > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > udupa

> > > > > >

> > > > > > On 10/2/07, Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear All,

> > > > > > > Here is the info to start a discussion on 'Lagna lord

in 9th

> > > > > house'

> > > > > > > . Let us have a worthy discussion on the same.

> > > > > > > =========================================

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > *

> > > > > > > Lagna lord in 9th House

> > > > > > > --

> > > > > > > *

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 9th, the native would be lucky and

dear to

> > > > > people. He

> > > > > > > will be a devotee of God Vishnu. He would an efficient

> individual,

> > > > > efficient

> > > > > > > especially in speech and oratory. With wife, children

and good

> > > > > amount of

> > > > > > > wealth (essentials for a good worldly life) he will

lead a

> good

> > > > > life. He

> > > > > > > will have many respectable relatives. He will do many

good

> deeds

> > > > > and would

> > > > > > > be a righteous individual. It could be said that he is

an

> > > > > individual with

> > > > > > > `Satwa Guna', meaning he will have the ability to keep

the

> same

> > > > > balanced

> > > > > > > state of mind both in happiness and sadness. Bestowed

with

> > > many good

> > > > > > > qualities, he will excel as a popular and radiant

individual.

> > > > > [Note that

> > > > > > > father is NOT mentioned in any of the above results]

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > *If lagna lord is in 9th, the native would be lucky and

> dear to

> > > > > people. He

> > > > > > > will be a devotee of God Vishnu. He would an efficient

> individual,

> > > > > efficient

> > > > > > > especially in speech and oratory. With wife, children

and good

> > > > > amount of

> > > > > > > wealth (essentials for a good worldly life) he will

lead a

> > > good life.*

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > *- Parasara Hora*

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Since 9th is the house signifying luck it is natural

to say

> > > that the

> > > > > > > native would be lucky, and a devotee of god. But why

God

> Vishnu?

> > > > > There is

> > > > > > > specific reason for this derivation. The trines

signify the

> > > > > trinity. Lagna

> > > > > > > signifies Brahma; 9th Vishnu; 5th Siva. This derivation

> primarily

> > > > > comes from

> > > > > > > the zodiac itself. In the Zodiac Aries being the first

sign

> > > signifies

> > > > > > > creation and thus Brahma; 5th being Leo, the house of

Sun,

> > > > > signifies Siva,

> > > > > > > 9th being the Sagittarius, the house of Jupiter,

signifies

> Vishnu.

> > > > > There is

> > > > > > > a saying `Jeevastu Narayana', meaning `Jupiter

signifies

> > > Narayana (God

> > > > > > > Vishnu floating in the primordial ocean which caused

the

> creation

> > > > > of the

> > > > > > > universe). Thus 9th signifies god Vishnu and that is

why it is

> > > > > derived that

> > > > > > > lagna lord in 9th will make the native a devotee of God

> Vishnu.

> > > > > Thus we get

> > > > > > > a cute rule -

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > *Rule 8: The significance of all the 12 houses are

related

> to the

> > > > > 12 signs

> > > > > > > from Aries onwards as well. Aries could signify

creation, so

> > > as lagna;

> > > > > > > Taurus could signify food so as 2nd and so on. Much

> significance

> > > > > that gets

> > > > > > > associated to the houses is derived in this way. This

> > > > > understanding can be

> > > > > > > used while deriving results using `House Base' system

as

> well. *

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Parasara tells us that if lagna lord is in 9th he

would be an

> > > > > efficient

> > > > > > > individual - why? Note that 9th is a house that is in

the

> visible

> > > > > part of

> > > > > > > zodiac. (1 to 7 = Invisible or hidden half; 7 to 12 =

> visible or

> > > > > popular

> > > > > > > half). Thus the qualities of the native would be well

> visible to

> > > > > the public;

> > > > > > > he is lucky, spiritual, and righteous. All these help

him in

> > > being an

> > > > > > > efficient and successful individual. But this logic

does

> not help

> > > > > us in

> > > > > > > clarifying the derivation - he would be an efficient

> individual,

> > > > > efficient

> > > > > > > especially in speech and oratory. What speech has to do

> with 9th?

> > > > > First it

> > > > > > > may seem that - no, there is no relation. But note that

> > > Parasara is

> > > > > > > simply extending the previous rule stated. 9th Sign of

> zodiac is

> > > > > Sagittarius

> > > > > > > owned by Jupiter, and all the qualities such as Speech,

> > > efficiency in

> > > > > > > speech, interest in telling spiritual and puranic

stories,

> good

> > > > > knowledge

> > > > > > > are all related to Jupiter itself. Thus it is quite

natural to

> > > > > derive the

> > > > > > > result `the native would be efficient especially in

speech and

> > > > > oratory'.

> > > > > > > This ability of the native will persist even to his old

> age, as

> > > > > indicated by

> > > > > > > the fact that 9th is 8th (longevity) from 2nd house

(speech).

> > > > > Lagna lord in

> > > > > > > 9th gives beneficial results to 9th, causing longevity

of

> speech,

> > > > > or in

> > > > > > > other words, the ability to amaze people with wonderful

> knowledge

> > > > > bits and

> > > > > > > excellent speaking abilities even in old age. Why it is

> said that

> > > > > he would

> > > > > > > live a good life with wife, children and wealth? Note

that

> these

> > > > > are the

> > > > > > > prime conditions for being a lucky person in worldly

life.

> As a

> > > > > balanced,

> > > > > > > efficient, lucky individual he is sure to have the

prime

> > > > > necessities for

> > > > > > > worldly happiness - which happens to be `wife,

children and

> > > > > wealth'. Also

> > > > > > > note that 9th is 5th from 5th, and in essence LL in 9th

> bestows

> > > > > good results

> > > > > > > for 5th indicating - beneficial results for children

(5th

> house).

> > > > > Similarly

> > > > > > > 9th is 3rd, an upachaya (growth and well being) house

from

> 7th.

> > > > > Thus LL in

> > > > > > > 9th gives beneficial results to 9th, indicating growth

and

> > > > > well-being of 7th

> > > > > > > (wife) as well. LL in 9th aspects 3rd house, which is

2nd

> from 2nd

> > > > > (a rule

> > > > > > > discussed earlier) and thus provides good results for

2nd

> house as

> > > > > well,

> > > > > > > providing good wealth. Thus in short, it turns out

that -

> `wealth,

> > > > > wife and

> > > > > > > children' is a well thought-out derivation, supported

by

> logic in

> > > > > many ways.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > *If lagna lord is in 9th, the native will have many

> respectable

> > > > > relatives.

> > > > > > > He will do many good deeds (He would a righteous

> individual); keep

> > > > > the same

> > > > > > > balanced state of mind both in happiness and sadness

(He is an

> > > > > individual

> > > > > > > with `Satwa Guna') ; will have many good qualities. He

will

> > > excel as a

> > > > > > > popular and radiant individual.*

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > *- Meenaraja Hora*

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Why many respectable relatives - who are they? If

Meenaraja

> > > wanted to

> > > > > > > indicate the native will have a good father, it would

have

> been

> > > > > easy to

> > > > > > > understand, since 9th signifies father. But he says -

`many

> > > > > respectable

> > > > > > > relatives'. Of course respectability is a quality of

9th

> house and

> > > > > therefore

> > > > > > > no doubt on that. A good respectable father is also a

> possibility.

> > > > > What

> > > > > > > about other relatives - intended? From the discussion

of 3rd

> > > house, we

> > > > > > > already know that -

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > In male horoscope, 9th house can indicate - wife's

sister,

> > > > > brother's wife,

> > > > > > > sister's husband and wife's brother.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > In female horoscope, 9th house can indicate - husband's

> brother,

> > > > > sister's

> > > > > > > husband, brother's wife, husband's sister.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Son's son and daughter, Daughter's son and daughter,

Mother's

> > > > > brother (the

> > > > > > > traditional husband as per some sects) are also

indicated by

> > > 9th house

> > > > > > > itself.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > It is due to all these reasons that Meenaraja resorted

to the

> > > > > statement,

> > > > > > > `LL in 9th (bestows good results for 9th and therefore)

> indicate

> > > > > having many

> > > > > > > respectable relatives to the native'.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Meenaraja tells us that `the native will keep his

equally

> balanced

> > > > > state

> > > > > > > of mind in happiness and sadness' - why? It is because

he is a

> > > > > spiritual

> > > > > > > individual. Spiritual awareness helps the native to

> achieve the

> > > > > same without

> > > > > > > much effort. In a calm mind the divine reflects and the

> beneficial

> > > > > results

> > > > > > > follow. The remaining derivations of Meenaraja are also

> easy to

> > > > > understand

> > > > > > > in this context.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Because we are discussing 9th house, there is unique

point to

> > > > > note. Why

> > > > > > > 9th house signify father? If 4th is mother (as

indicated

> by the

> > > > > ownership of

> > > > > > > Moon in Cancer, 4th sign from Aries), then the natural

> thing was

> > > > > to say that

> > > > > > > 10th signify father, since the same is 7th from 4th as

> well. But

> > > > > all the

> > > > > > > medieval texts, tell us that - father is signified by

9th

> house.

> > > > > Why? Note

> > > > > > > that 9th indicate `Mother's mother's brother - the

traditional

> > > > > husband as

> > > > > > > per customs followed by several sects'. The Vedic

> tradition NEVER

> > > > > supported

> > > > > > > such a system - then how come astrological texts

attribute the

> > > > > significance

> > > > > > > of father to 9th house instead of 10th? It would be

> interesting to

> > > > > note the

> > > > > > > following points in this context.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > * Only books of Jain (Garga hora etc) and South Indian

> tradition

> > > > > attribute

> > > > > > > 9th house to father. [i am yet to see any other ancient

> Rishi hora

> > > > > sloka

> > > > > > > (other than Garga Hora sloka) which attribute the

> significance of

> > > > > `father'

> > > > > > > to 9th house. Of course astrology did not originate in

> South India

> > > > > but in

> > > > > > > the banks of `Saraswati River'. It is the ancient Jain

> siddhas who

> > > > > spread it

> > > > > > > through out India, especially in south India]

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > * All ancient text agree on the fact that 9th house

signifies

> > > Guru.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > * While discussing 4th house (and in many other places)

> Parasara

> > > > > indicated

> > > > > > > that father is signified by 10th house rather than 9th.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > * In many traditions (including non-vedic and vedic;

Agama and

> > > Nigama)

> > > > > > > father was the first Guru of the native, especially

related to

> > > > > Upanayana

> > > > > > > etc. Many texts say that - Guru IS father, equating

both

> of them,

> > > > > possibly

> > > > > > > because Upanayana (providing sacred thread) is

considered

> as the

> > > > > second

> > > > > > > birth of the native.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I think -

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 1) Emphasis with Jain and South indian traditions

> attribute the

> > > > > > > significance of father to 9th indicate that the

tradition of

> > > marrying

> > > > > > > `mother's brother' was very common among both of them.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 2) This points to the agama (non-vedic) origin of

astrology as

> > > > > well. Even

> > > > > > > Mihira tells us that `Astrology is an Agama sastra'

> > > emphasizing its

> > > > > > > non-vedic nature. But Mihira was so authentic and

popular,

> that

> > > > > from the

> > > > > > > period of Mihira onwards considering 9th as father got

> accepted by

> > > > > almost

> > > > > > > all the followers of astrology (south indian and north

indian;

> > > > > non-vedic and

> > > > > > > vedic; Jain and Hindu) alike. Note that currently

there is

> > > > > almost

> > > > > > > no text available (except BPHS) that tells us that -

10th

> house

> > > > > signifies

> > > > > > > father. It is cute fact to note.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 3) Texts like Parasara hora (BC 1400) could be an

effort

> to mix

> > > > > the Agama

> > > > > > > system of astrology (some streams of which like the

Jains,

> > > > > followed customs

> > > > > > > like marrying `mother's brother') with the other

streams

> > > (which never

> > > > > > > followed such a custom). This could be a controversial

> statement.

> > > > > But if it

> > > > > > > is so, this also points to the fact why texts like

BPHS are

> > > popular in

> > > > > > > north, while south instead depends on older Rishi

horas (like

> > > > > Skanda hora,

> > > > > > > Garga hora etc) and the text of Mihira who accepts that

> astrology

> > > > > is an

> > > > > > > Agama sastra (Knowledge of Tantric origin).

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 4) It is also possible that the above statement is

wrong.

> It is

> > > > > possible

> > > > > > > that except Jains (Garga Hora) no other Rishi horas

> followed the

> > > > > system of

> > > > > > > ascribing the significance of father to 9th house (we

need to

> > > > > study the

> > > > > > > available quotes). It is possible that any such

> indications we may

> > > > > find in

> > > > > > > BPHS are later interpolations. If the above statements

are

> true we

> > > > > would

> > > > > > > have to resort to the statement " No Rishi Hora except

> Garga Hora

> > > > > attributes

> > > > > > > the significance of father to 9th house. As per them

father is

> > > > > signified by

> > > > > > > 10th house " . This is a subject with good scope for

> astrological

> > > > > research.

> > > > > > > Research and come out with ancient quotes that support

your

> > > arguments.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 5) Essentially thus the fact springs up that the Jain

> contribution

> > > > > to the

> > > > > > > development of astrology in India - is far more than

what we

> > > currently

> > > > > > > ascribe them to. Similarly the contribution of Vedic

> tradition and

> > > > > > > literature to the development of Nirayana astrology is

far

> less

> > > > > than what we

> > > > > > > ascribe them to. Possibly ancient indian astrology is a

> branch of

> > > > > science

> > > > > > > developed by the Asura Tantric culture of Harappa

(which

> covered

> > > > > many other

> > > > > > > parts of the world such as Iran, Assyria etc as well)

and

> spread

> > > > > throughout

> > > > > > > India mostly through the Jain Siddhas. That was why it

was

> > > still Agama

> > > > > > > sastra (Tantric knowledge branch) even at the period

of Mihira

> > > > > (i.e. AD

> > > > > > > 550). Note that even Aryabhata was a Jain. Since Sage

> Garga - a

> > > > > Jain sage -

> > > > > > > who wrote Garga Hora lived around BC 1400, and was a

> contemporary

> > > > > of Skanda

> > > > > > > (the originator of Nirayana astrological knowledge who

wrote

> > > > > Skanda Hora),

> > > > > > > it turns out that the Jain tradition is as old as Vedic

> tradition.

> > > > > The Saiva

> > > > > > > Agama tradition existed prior to that even in the

Harappan

> period.

> > > > > So the

> > > > > > > flow of this eternal knowledge branch known as Nirayana

> Astrology

> > > > > in ancient

> > > > > > > India would be from Saiva Agama tradition to Jain

Tradition to

> > > > > South India

> > > > > > > through the sea shore (Gujarat and Orissa). And then by

> the period

> > > > > of Mihira

> > > > > > > getting accepted by the whole of India - mixing both

Agamic

> > > Nirayana

> > > > > > > Zodiacal astrology and Vedic Tropical Astrology. Mutual

> > > > > interactions and

> > > > > > > give and take must have happened in between as well -

but

> it is

> > > > > fair to say

> > > > > > > that till the period of Mihira (AD 550), Nirayana

zodiacal

> > > > > Astrology and

> > > > > > > Sayana Tropical astrology were treated separately in

India

> - the

> > > > > first

> > > > > > > considered as Agamic and the second as Vedic

(Nigamic). The

> > > > > non-vedic nature

> > > > > > > of astrology is also evident from the fact that,

astrology

> texts

> > > > > don't even

> > > > > > > mention the name of Lagatha or his student Suchi, who

wrote

> > > the text

> > > > > > > `Vedanga Jyotisha' in BC1400, a text dealing with

> astronomy and

> > > > > calendar

> > > > > > > system known to and followed by vedic tradition. Thus

> possibly all

> > > > > the 18

> > > > > > > sages mentioned by astrological classics were outside

vedic

> > > > > tradition - no

> > > > > > > wonder the hindu brahmin fanatics prior to the period

of

> Mihira

> > > > > never tried

> > > > > > > to save those astrological texts - from extinction.

The other

> > > > > stalwart of

> > > > > > > the same era, Aryabhata (AD 522) was a follower of Jain

> religion.

> > > > > It should

> > > > > > > be said that - together they saved this knowledge of

Nirayana

> > > > > astrology from

> > > > > > > complete extinction.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > We have drifted away a bit during this discussion, from

> our major

> > > > > subject

> > > > > > > that is `Lagna lord in various house' but still I

think it is

> > > > > worth it. Now

> > > > > > > let us go back and continue our study -

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The 9th house signifies things such as - luck, guru,

vishnu,

> > > purana,

> > > > > > > story telling, father, meditation, kind donations,

righteous

> > > > > deeds, devotion

> > > > > > > etc. Thus the placement of lagna lord in 9th generates

special

> > > > > importance to

> > > > > > > the derivations related to the same.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > - by Sreenadh (sreesog@)

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > =========================================

> > > > > > > Love,

> > > > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

This reasoning is sounding as if coming from kids of divorced parents... no offense... If 4th is mother then why not 10th as father (7th from 4th). Best Jagdish renunw <renunw wrote: Dear Sreenadh ji,I don't know about the ancient times. But if one look at the present world, there's ample evidence to denote 9H as father. 9H is the 6th, the house of enemey, rival etc. etc. from 4H

representing mother. And today in most marriages father can be mother's adversary...I'd rather not use the word 'enemey'.Then even in ancient times and also today, a man may vanish after fathering a child, naturally becoming the mother's arch-enemey.Hence it is fair enough to attribute 6H to father...under certain circumstances.... Just a thought from a women's perceptive..You can take it lightly/seriouslyblessingsRenu , "Sreenadh" <sreesog wrote:>> Possibly...> , "Haridas Udupa"> <ahudupa@> wrote:> >> > Dear Shri sreenadh,> > If I may expand this thought further, we can

say that 10th is> father by> > virtue of being mother's husband. If you take Kunti for example, for> > Pandavas, Pandu is represented by 10th house. But each of the> pandavas have> > different fathers, 9th house. However, in most cases 9th as father,> 10th as> > father are same. May be in ancient times it was an accepted practice> to have> > children thro someone else if the legal father had some problem with> > procreation.> > Regards,> > Udupa> > > > On 10/2/07, Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote:> > >> > > Dear Haridas ji,> > > Ok - got it.> > > 9th = Father => Lagna = Native => 5th = Native's child> > > The circle continues right? Yah, possibly that is why, any> > > appreciated and adopted it. Note that Parasara says 10th is

father,> > > but Garga says 9th is father.> > > Good thought. > > > Love,> > > Sreenadh> > >> > > --- In> <%40>,> > > "Haridas Udupa"> > > <ahudupa@> wrote:> > > >> > > > Dear Mr. sreenadh,> > > > 5th from 9th is Lagna itself. If 9th is father then 5th from> > > it, the> > > > Lagna is child. It is a never ending cycle.> > > > Regards,> > > > Udupa> > > >> > > > On 10/2/07, Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Dear Haridas ji,> > > > > 5th from what?!!> > >

> >> > > > > 5th from 4th is - 8th> > > > > 5th from 9th is - Lagna> > > > > 5th from 5th is - 9th> > > > >> > > > > What do you mean? Please clarify.> > > > >> > > > > Note: 9th is - 4th (Mother's) 7th (Mother's) Brother (9th). The> > > > > custom of 'the girl marrying Mother's brother' is present> among people> > > > > of Tamilnadu and was present possibly among Jains as well.> That is why> > > > > 9th signify Father as per the jain sage - Garga.> > > > >> > > > > Love,> > > > > Sreenadh> > > > >> > > > > --- In> > >> <%40>> > > <%40>,> > >> > > > > "Haridas Udupa"> > > > > <ahudupa@> wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > Dear Shri Sreenadh,> > > > > > 10th house, being 7th to 4th indicates mother's husband.> > > > > However, 9th> > > > > > house has to be father since 5th from it, is self (the> natvie, the> > > > > child),> > > > > > the Lagna. So, 10th house may be used to indicate> stepfather. Does> > > > > it sound> > > > > > logical?> > > > > > Regards,> > >

> > > udupa> > > > > >> > > > > > On 10/2/07, Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote:> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Dear All,> > > > > > > Here is the info to start a discussion on 'Lagna lord in 9th> > > > > house'> > > > > > > . Let us have a worthy discussion on the same.> > > > > > > =========================================> > > > > > >> > > > > > > *> > > > > > > Lagna lord in 9th House> > > > > > > --> > > > > > > *> > > > > > >> > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 9th, the native would be lucky and dear to> > > > >

people. He> > > > > > > will be a devotee of God Vishnu. He would an efficient> individual,> > > > > efficient> > > > > > > especially in speech and oratory. With wife, children and good> > > > > amount of> > > > > > > wealth (essentials for a good worldly life) he will lead a> good> > > > > life. He> > > > > > > will have many respectable relatives. He will do many good> deeds> > > > > and would> > > > > > > be a righteous individual. It could be said that he is an> > > > > individual with> > > > > > > `Satwa Guna', meaning he will have the ability to keep the> same> > > > > balanced> > > > > > > state of mind both in happiness and sadness.

Bestowed with> > > many good> > > > > > > qualities, he will excel as a popular and radiant individual.> > > > > [Note that> > > > > > > father is NOT mentioned in any of the above results]> > > > > > >> > > > > > > *If lagna lord is in 9th, the native would be lucky and> dear to> > > > > people. He> > > > > > > will be a devotee of God Vishnu. He would an efficient> individual,> > > > > efficient> > > > > > > especially in speech and oratory. With wife, children and good> > > > > amount of> > > > > > > wealth (essentials for a good worldly life) he will lead a> > > good life.*> > > > > > >> > > > > > > *- Parasara

Hora*> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Since 9th is the house signifying luck it is natural to say> > > that the> > > > > > > native would be lucky, and a devotee of god. But why God> Vishnu?> > > > > There is> > > > > > > specific reason for this derivation. The trines signify the> > > > > trinity. Lagna> > > > > > > signifies Brahma; 9th Vishnu; 5th Siva. This derivation> primarily> > > > > comes from> > > > > > > the zodiac itself. In the Zodiac Aries being the first sign> > > signifies> > > > > > > creation and thus Brahma; 5th being Leo, the house of Sun,> > > > > signifies Siva,> > > > > > > 9th being the Sagittarius, the house of Jupiter,

signifies> Vishnu.> > > > > There is> > > > > > > a saying `Jeevastu Narayana', meaning `Jupiter signifies> > > Narayana (God> > > > > > > Vishnu floating in the primordial ocean which caused the> creation> > > > > of the> > > > > > > universe). Thus 9th signifies god Vishnu and that is why it is> > > > > derived that> > > > > > > lagna lord in 9th will make the native a devotee of God> Vishnu.> > > > > Thus we get> > > > > > > a cute rule -> > > > > > >> > > > > > > *Rule 8: The significance of all the 12 houses are related> to the> > > > > 12 signs> > > > > > > from Aries onwards as well. Aries could signify creation,

so> > > as lagna;> > > > > > > Taurus could signify food so as 2nd and so on. Much> significance> > > > > that gets> > > > > > > associated to the houses is derived in this way. This> > > > > understanding can be> > > > > > > used while deriving results using `House Base' system as> well. *> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Parasara tells us that if lagna lord is in 9th he would be an> > > > > efficient> > > > > > > individual - why? Note that 9th is a house that is in the> visible> > > > > part of> > > > > > > zodiac. (1 to 7 = Invisible or hidden half; 7 to 12 => visible or> > > > > popular> > > > > > > half). Thus the qualities of the

native would be well> visible to> > > > > the public;> > > > > > > he is lucky, spiritual, and righteous. All these help him in> > > being an> > > > > > > efficient and successful individual. But this logic does> not help> > > > > us in> > > > > > > clarifying the derivation - he would be an efficient> individual,> > > > > efficient> > > > > > > especially in speech and oratory. What speech has to do> with 9th?> > > > > First it> > > > > > > may seem that - no, there is no relation. But note that> > > Parasara is> > > > > > > simply extending the previous rule stated. 9th Sign of> zodiac is> > > > > Sagittarius> > > > > > > owned by

Jupiter, and all the qualities such as Speech,> > > efficiency in> > > > > > > speech, interest in telling spiritual and puranic stories,> good> > > > > knowledge> > > > > > > are all related to Jupiter itself. Thus it is quite natural to> > > > > derive the> > > > > > > result `the native would be efficient especially in speech and> > > > > oratory'.> > > > > > > This ability of the native will persist even to his old> age, as> > > > > indicated by> > > > > > > the fact that 9th is 8th (longevity) from 2nd house (speech).> > > > > Lagna lord in> > > > > > > 9th gives beneficial results to 9th, causing longevity of> speech,> > > > > or in> > > >

> > > other words, the ability to amaze people with wonderful> knowledge> > > > > bits and> > > > > > > excellent speaking abilities even in old age. Why it is> said that> > > > > he would> > > > > > > live a good life with wife, children and wealth? Note that> these> > > > > are the> > > > > > > prime conditions for being a lucky person in worldly life.> As a> > > > > balanced,> > > > > > > efficient, lucky individual he is sure to have the prime> > > > > necessities for> > > > > > > worldly happiness - which happens to be `wife, children and> > > > > wealth'. Also> > > > > > > note that 9th is 5th from 5th, and in essence LL in 9th> bestows> >

> > > good results> > > > > > > for 5th indicating - beneficial results for children (5th> house).> > > > > Similarly> > > > > > > 9th is 3rd, an upachaya (growth and well being) house from> 7th.> > > > > Thus LL in> > > > > > > 9th gives beneficial results to 9th, indicating growth and> > > > > well-being of 7th> > > > > > > (wife) as well. LL in 9th aspects 3rd house, which is 2nd> from 2nd> > > > > (a rule> > > > > > > discussed earlier) and thus provides good results for 2nd> house as> > > > > well,> > > > > > > providing good wealth. Thus in short, it turns out that -> `wealth,> > > > > wife and> > > > > > > children'

is a well thought-out derivation, supported by> logic in> > > > > many ways.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > *If lagna lord is in 9th, the native will have many> respectable> > > > > relatives.> > > > > > > He will do many good deeds (He would a righteous> individual); keep> > > > > the same> > > > > > > balanced state of mind both in happiness and sadness (He is an> > > > > individual> > > > > > > with `Satwa Guna') ; will have many good qualities. He will> > > excel as a> > > > > > > popular and radiant individual.*> > > > > > >> > > > > > > *- Meenaraja Hora*> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Why many respectable

relatives - who are they? If Meenaraja> > > wanted to> > > > > > > indicate the native will have a good father, it would have> been> > > > > easy to> > > > > > > understand, since 9th signifies father. But he says - `many> > > > > respectable> > > > > > > relatives'. Of course respectability is a quality of 9th> house and> > > > > therefore> > > > > > > no doubt on that. A good respectable father is also a> possibility.> > > > > What> > > > > > > about other relatives - intended? From the discussion of 3rd> > > house, we> > > > > > > already know that -> > > > > > >> > > > > > > In male horoscope, 9th house can indicate - wife's

sister,> > > > > brother's wife,> > > > > > > sister's husband and wife's brother.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > In female horoscope, 9th house can indicate - husband's> brother,> > > > > sister's> > > > > > > husband, brother's wife, husband's sister.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Son's son and daughter, Daughter's son and daughter, Mother's> > > > > brother (the> > > > > > > traditional husband as per some sects) are also indicated by> > > 9th house> > > > > > > itself.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > It is due to all these reasons that Meenaraja resorted to the> > > > > statement,> > > > > > > `LL in 9th

(bestows good results for 9th and therefore)> indicate> > > > > having many> > > > > > > respectable relatives to the native'.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Meenaraja tells us that `the native will keep his equally> balanced> > > > > state> > > > > > > of mind in happiness and sadness' - why? It is because he is a> > > > > spiritual> > > > > > > individual. Spiritual awareness helps the native to> achieve the> > > > > same without> > > > > > > much effort. In a calm mind the divine reflects and the> beneficial> > > > > results> > > > > > > follow. The remaining derivations of Meenaraja are also> easy to> > > > > understand> > > > >

> > in this context.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Because we are discussing 9th house, there is unique point to> > > > > note. Why> > > > > > > 9th house signify father? If 4th is mother (as indicated> by the> > > > > ownership of> > > > > > > Moon in Cancer, 4th sign from Aries), then the natural> thing was> > > > > to say that> > > > > > > 10th signify father, since the same is 7th from 4th as> well. But> > > > > all the> > > > > > > medieval texts, tell us that - father is signified by 9th> house.> > > > > Why? Note> > > > > > > that 9th indicate `Mother's mother's brother - the traditional> > > > > husband as> > > > >

> > per customs followed by several sects'. The Vedic> tradition NEVER> > > > > supported> > > > > > > such a system - then how come astrological texts attribute the> > > > > significance> > > > > > > of father to 9th house instead of 10th? It would be> interesting to> > > > > note the> > > > > > > following points in this context.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > * Only books of Jain (Garga hora etc) and South Indian> tradition> > > > > attribute> > > > > > > 9th house to father. [i am yet to see any other ancient> Rishi hora> > > > > sloka> > > > > > > (other than Garga Hora sloka) which attribute the> significance of> > > > > `father'> >

> > > > > to 9th house. Of course astrology did not originate in> South India> > > > > but in> > > > > > > the banks of `Saraswati River'. It is the ancient Jain> siddhas who> > > > > spread it> > > > > > > through out India, especially in south India]> > > > > > >> > > > > > > * All ancient text agree on the fact that 9th house signifies> > > Guru.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > * While discussing 4th house (and in many other places)> Parasara> > > > > indicated> > > > > > > that father is signified by 10th house rather than 9th.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > * In many traditions (including non-vedic and vedic; Agama and> > >

Nigama)> > > > > > > father was the first Guru of the native, especially related to> > > > > Upanayana> > > > > > > etc. Many texts say that - Guru IS father, equating both> of them,> > > > > possibly> > > > > > > because Upanayana (providing sacred thread) is considered> as the> > > > > second> > > > > > > birth of the native.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > I think -> > > > > > >> > > > > > > 1) Emphasis with Jain and South indian traditions> attribute the> > > > > > > significance of father to 9th indicate that the tradition of> > > marrying> > > > > > > `mother's brother' was very common among both of them.> > >

> > > >> > > > > > > 2) This points to the agama (non-vedic) origin of astrology as> > > > > well. Even> > > > > > > Mihira tells us that `Astrology is an Agama sastra'> > > emphasizing its> > > > > > > non-vedic nature. But Mihira was so authentic and popular,> that> > > > > from the> > > > > > > period of Mihira onwards considering 9th as father got> accepted by> > > > > almost> > > > > > > all the followers of astrology (south indian and north indian;> > > > > non-vedic and> > > > > > > vedic; Jain and Hindu) alike. Note that currently there is> > > > > almost> > > > > > > no text available (except BPHS) that tells us that - 10th>

house> > > > > signifies> > > > > > > father. It is cute fact to note.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > 3) Texts like Parasara hora (BC 1400) could be an effort> to mix> > > > > the Agama> > > > > > > system of astrology (some streams of which like the Jains,> > > > > followed customs> > > > > > > like marrying `mother's brother') with the other streams> > > (which never> > > > > > > followed such a custom). This could be a controversial> statement.> > > > > But if it> > > > > > > is so, this also points to the fact why texts like BPHS are> > > popular in> > > > > > > north, while south instead depends on older Rishi horas (like> > >

> > Skanda hora,> > > > > > > Garga hora etc) and the text of Mihira who accepts that> astrology> > > > > is an> > > > > > > Agama sastra (Knowledge of Tantric origin).> > > > > > >> > > > > > > 4) It is also possible that the above statement is wrong.> It is> > > > > possible> > > > > > > that except Jains (Garga Hora) no other Rishi horas> followed the> > > > > system of> > > > > > > ascribing the significance of father to 9th house (we need to> > > > > study the> > > > > > > available quotes). It is possible that any such> indications we may> > > > > find in> > > > > > > BPHS are later interpolations. If the above statements

are> true we> > > > > would> > > > > > > have to resort to the statement "No Rishi Hora except> Garga Hora> > > > > attributes> > > > > > > the significance of father to 9th house. As per them father is> > > > > signified by> > > > > > > 10th house". This is a subject with good scope for> astrological> > > > > research.> > > > > > > Research and come out with ancient quotes that support your> > > arguments.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > 5) Essentially thus the fact springs up that the Jain> contribution> > > > > to the> > > > > > > development of astrology in India - is far more than what we> > > currently> > > > > > >

ascribe them to. Similarly the contribution of Vedic> tradition and> > > > > > > literature to the development of Nirayana astrology is far> less> > > > > than what we> > > > > > > ascribe them to. Possibly ancient indian astrology is a> branch of> > > > > science> > > > > > > developed by the Asura Tantric culture of Harappa (which> covered> > > > > many other> > > > > > > parts of the world such as Iran, Assyria etc as well) and> spread> > > > > throughout> > > > > > > India mostly through the Jain Siddhas. That was why it was> > > still Agama> > > > > > > sastra (Tantric knowledge branch) even at the period of Mihira> > > > > (i.e. AD> > > > >

> > 550). Note that even Aryabhata was a Jain. Since Sage> Garga - a> > > > > Jain sage -> > > > > > > who wrote Garga Hora lived around BC 1400, and was a> contemporary> > > > > of Skanda> > > > > > > (the originator of Nirayana astrological knowledge who wrote> > > > > Skanda Hora),> > > > > > > it turns out that the Jain tradition is as old as Vedic> tradition.> > > > > The Saiva> > > > > > > Agama tradition existed prior to that even in the Harappan> period.> > > > > So the> > > > > > > flow of this eternal knowledge branch known as Nirayana> Astrology> > > > > in ancient> > > > > > > India would be from Saiva Agama tradition to Jain Tradition to>

> > > > South India> > > > > > > through the sea shore (Gujarat and Orissa). And then by> the period> > > > > of Mihira> > > > > > > getting accepted by the whole of India - mixing both Agamic> > > Nirayana> > > > > > > Zodiacal astrology and Vedic Tropical Astrology. Mutual> > > > > interactions and> > > > > > > give and take must have happened in between as well - but> it is> > > > > fair to say> > > > > > > that till the period of Mihira (AD 550), Nirayana zodiacal> > > > > Astrology and> > > > > > > Sayana Tropical astrology were treated separately in India> - the> > > > > first> > > > > > > considered as Agamic and the second as Vedic

(Nigamic). The> > > > > non-vedic nature> > > > > > > of astrology is also evident from the fact that, astrology> texts> > > > > don't even> > > > > > > mention the name of Lagatha or his student Suchi, who wrote> > > the text> > > > > > > `Vedanga Jyotisha' in BC1400, a text dealing with> astronomy and> > > > > calendar> > > > > > > system known to and followed by vedic tradition. Thus> possibly all> > > > > the 18> > > > > > > sages mentioned by astrological classics were outside vedic> > > > > tradition - no> > > > > > > wonder the hindu brahmin fanatics prior to the period of> Mihira> > > > > never tried> > > > > > > to save

those astrological texts - from extinction. The other> > > > > stalwart of> > > > > > > the same era, Aryabhata (AD 522) was a follower of Jain> religion.> > > > > It should> > > > > > > be said that - together they saved this knowledge of Nirayana> > > > > astrology from> > > > > > > complete extinction.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > We have drifted away a bit during this discussion, from> our major> > > > > subject> > > > > > > that is `Lagna lord in various house' but still I think it is> > > > > worth it. Now> > > > > > > let us go back and continue our study -> > > > > > >> > > > > > > The 9th house signifies things such as - luck,

guru, vishnu,> > > purana,> > > > > > > story telling, father, meditation, kind donations, righteous> > > > > deeds, devotion> > > > > > > etc. Thus the placement of lagna lord in 9th generates special> > > > > importance to> > > > > > > the derivations related to the same.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > - by Sreenadh (sreesog@)> > > > > > >> > > > > > > =========================================> > > > > > > Love,> > > > > > > Sreenadh> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> >

> >> > >> > > > > >> >>

Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Games.

[Guest guest]

Lollzzzzz....Well said..!! I love the way you look at things...

Love and Hugs,

Sreenadh

, " renunw "

<renunw wrote:

>

> Dear Sreenadh ji,

>

> I don't know about the ancient times. But if one look at the

present

> world, there's ample evidence to denote 9H as father. 9H is the

6th,

> the house of enemey, rival etc. etc. from 4H representing mother.

> And today in most marriages father can be mother's adversary...I'd

> rather not use the word 'enemey'.

>

> Then even in ancient times and also today, a man may vanish after

> fathering a child, naturally becoming the mother's arch-enemey.

> Hence it is fair enough to attribute 6H to father...under certain

> circumstances....

>

> Just a thought from a women's perceptive..You can take it

> lightly/seriously

>

> blessings

>

> Renu

> , " Sreenadh "

> <sreesog@> wrote:

> >

> > Possibly...

> > , " Haridas Udupa "

> > <ahudupa@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Shri sreenadh,

> > > If I may expand this thought further, we can say that 10th

is

> > father by

> > > virtue of being mother's husband. If you take Kunti for

example,

> for

> > > Pandavas, Pandu is represented by 10th house. But each of the

> > pandavas have

> > > different fathers, 9th house. However, in most cases 9th as

> father,

> > 10th as

> > > father are same. May be in ancient times it was an accepted

> practice

> > to have

> > > children thro someone else if the legal father had some problem

> with

> > > procreation.

> > > Regards,

> > > Udupa

> > >

> > > On 10/2/07, Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Haridas ji,

> > > > Ok - got it.

> > > > 9th = Father => Lagna = Native => 5th = Native's child

> > > > The circle continues right? Yah, possibly that is why, any

> > > > appreciated and adopted it. Note that Parasara says 10th

is

> father,

> > > > but Garga says 9th is father.

> > > > Good thought.

> > > > Love,

> > > > Sreenadh

> > > >

> > > > --- In

> > <%

> 40>,

> > > > " Haridas Udupa "

> > > > <ahudupa@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Mr. sreenadh,

> > > > > 5th from 9th is Lagna itself. If 9th is father then 5th from

> > > > it, the

> > > > > Lagna is child. It is a never ending cycle.

> > > > > Regards,

> > > > > Udupa

> > > > >

> > > > > On 10/2/07, Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Haridas ji,

> > > > > > 5th from what?!!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 5th from 4th is - 8th

> > > > > > 5th from 9th is - Lagna

> > > > > > 5th from 5th is - 9th

> > > > > >

> > > > > > What do you mean? Please clarify.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Note: 9th is - 4th (Mother's) 7th (Mother's) Brother

> (9th). The

> > > > > > custom of 'the girl marrying Mother's brother' is present

> > among people

> > > > > > of Tamilnadu and was present possibly among Jains as well.

> > That is why

> > > > > > 9th signify Father as per the jain sage - Garga.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Love,

> > > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > > >

> > > > > > --- In

> > > >

> > <%

> 40>

> > > > <%40>,

> > > >

> > > > > > " Haridas Udupa "

> > > > > > <ahudupa@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Shri Sreenadh,

> > > > > > > 10th house, being 7th to 4th indicates mother's husband.

> > > > > > However, 9th

> > > > > > > house has to be father since 5th from it, is self (the

> > natvie, the

> > > > > > child),

> > > > > > > the Lagna. So, 10th house may be used to indicate

> > stepfather. Does

> > > > > > it sound

> > > > > > > logical?

> > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > udupa

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > On 10/2/07, Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dear All,

> > > > > > > > Here is the info to start a discussion on 'Lagna lord

> in 9th

> > > > > > house'

> > > > > > > > . Let us have a worthy discussion on the same.

> > > > > > > > =========================================

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > *

> > > > > > > > Lagna lord in 9th House

> > > > > > > > --

> > > > > > > > *

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 9th, the native would be lucky

and

> dear to

> > > > > > people. He

> > > > > > > > will be a devotee of God Vishnu. He would an efficient

> > individual,

> > > > > > efficient

> > > > > > > > especially in speech and oratory. With wife, children

> and good

> > > > > > amount of

> > > > > > > > wealth (essentials for a good worldly life) he will

> lead a

> > good

> > > > > > life. He

> > > > > > > > will have many respectable relatives. He will do many

> good

> > deeds

> > > > > > and would

> > > > > > > > be a righteous individual. It could be said that he

is

> an

> > > > > > individual with

> > > > > > > > `Satwa Guna', meaning he will have the ability to

keep

> the

> > same

> > > > > > balanced

> > > > > > > > state of mind both in happiness and sadness. Bestowed

> with

> > > > many good

> > > > > > > > qualities, he will excel as a popular and radiant

> individual.

> > > > > > [Note that

> > > > > > > > father is NOT mentioned in any of the above results]

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > *If lagna lord is in 9th, the native would be lucky

and

> > dear to

> > > > > > people. He

> > > > > > > > will be a devotee of God Vishnu. He would an efficient

> > individual,

> > > > > > efficient

> > > > > > > > especially in speech and oratory. With wife, children

> and good

> > > > > > amount of

> > > > > > > > wealth (essentials for a good worldly life) he will

> lead a

> > > > good life.*

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > *- Parasara Hora*

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Since 9th is the house signifying luck it is natural

> to say

> > > > that the

> > > > > > > > native would be lucky, and a devotee of god. But why

> God

> > Vishnu?

> > > > > > There is

> > > > > > > > specific reason for this derivation. The trines

> signify the

> > > > > > trinity. Lagna

> > > > > > > > signifies Brahma; 9th Vishnu; 5th Siva. This

derivation

> > primarily

> > > > > > comes from

> > > > > > > > the zodiac itself. In the Zodiac Aries being the

first

> sign

> > > > signifies

> > > > > > > > creation and thus Brahma; 5th being Leo, the house of

> Sun,

> > > > > > signifies Siva,

> > > > > > > > 9th being the Sagittarius, the house of Jupiter,

> signifies

> > Vishnu.

> > > > > > There is

> > > > > > > > a saying `Jeevastu Narayana', meaning `Jupiter

> signifies

> > > > Narayana (God

> > > > > > > > Vishnu floating in the primordial ocean which caused

> the

> > creation

> > > > > > of the

> > > > > > > > universe). Thus 9th signifies god Vishnu and that is

> why it is

> > > > > > derived that

> > > > > > > > lagna lord in 9th will make the native a devotee of

God

> > Vishnu.

> > > > > > Thus we get

> > > > > > > > a cute rule -

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > *Rule 8: The significance of all the 12 houses are

> related

> > to the

> > > > > > 12 signs

> > > > > > > > from Aries onwards as well. Aries could signify

> creation, so

> > > > as lagna;

> > > > > > > > Taurus could signify food so as 2nd and so on. Much

> > significance

> > > > > > that gets

> > > > > > > > associated to the houses is derived in this way. This

> > > > > > understanding can be

> > > > > > > > used while deriving results using `House Base' system

> as

> > well. *

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Parasara tells us that if lagna lord is in 9th he

> would be an

> > > > > > efficient

> > > > > > > > individual - why? Note that 9th is a house that is in

> the

> > visible

> > > > > > part of

> > > > > > > > zodiac. (1 to 7 = Invisible or hidden half; 7 to 12 =

> > visible or

> > > > > > popular

> > > > > > > > half). Thus the qualities of the native would be well

> > visible to

> > > > > > the public;

> > > > > > > > he is lucky, spiritual, and righteous. All these help

> him in

> > > > being an

> > > > > > > > efficient and successful individual. But this logic

> does

> > not help

> > > > > > us in

> > > > > > > > clarifying the derivation - he would be an efficient

> > individual,

> > > > > > efficient

> > > > > > > > especially in speech and oratory. What speech has to

do

> > with 9th?

> > > > > > First it

> > > > > > > > may seem that - no, there is no relation. But note

that

> > > > Parasara is

> > > > > > > > simply extending the previous rule stated. 9th Sign of

> > zodiac is

> > > > > > Sagittarius

> > > > > > > > owned by Jupiter, and all the qualities such as

Speech,

> > > > efficiency in

> > > > > > > > speech, interest in telling spiritual and puranic

> stories,

> > good

> > > > > > knowledge

> > > > > > > > are all related to Jupiter itself. Thus it is quite

> natural to

> > > > > > derive the

> > > > > > > > result `the native would be efficient especially in

> speech and

> > > > > > oratory'.

> > > > > > > > This ability of the native will persist even to his

old

> > age, as

> > > > > > indicated by

> > > > > > > > the fact that 9th is 8th (longevity) from 2nd house

> (speech).

> > > > > > Lagna lord in

> > > > > > > > 9th gives beneficial results to 9th, causing

longevity

> of

> > speech,

> > > > > > or in

> > > > > > > > other words, the ability to amaze people with

wonderful

> > knowledge

> > > > > > bits and

> > > > > > > > excellent speaking abilities even in old age. Why it

is

> > said that

> > > > > > he would

> > > > > > > > live a good life with wife, children and wealth? Note

> that

> > these

> > > > > > are the

> > > > > > > > prime conditions for being a lucky person in worldly

> life.

> > As a

> > > > > > balanced,

> > > > > > > > efficient, lucky individual he is sure to have the

> prime

> > > > > > necessities for

> > > > > > > > worldly happiness - which happens to be `wife,

> children and

> > > > > > wealth'. Also

> > > > > > > > note that 9th is 5th from 5th, and in essence LL in

9th

> > bestows

> > > > > > good results

> > > > > > > > for 5th indicating - beneficial results for children

> (5th

> > house).

> > > > > > Similarly

> > > > > > > > 9th is 3rd, an upachaya (growth and well being) house

> from

> > 7th.

> > > > > > Thus LL in

> > > > > > > > 9th gives beneficial results to 9th, indicating

growth

> and

> > > > > > well-being of 7th

> > > > > > > > (wife) as well. LL in 9th aspects 3rd house, which is

> 2nd

> > from 2nd

> > > > > > (a rule

> > > > > > > > discussed earlier) and thus provides good results for

> 2nd

> > house as

> > > > > > well,

> > > > > > > > providing good wealth. Thus in short, it turns out

> that -

> > `wealth,

> > > > > > wife and

> > > > > > > > children' is a well thought-out derivation, supported

> by

> > logic in

> > > > > > many ways.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > *If lagna lord is in 9th, the native will have many

> > respectable

> > > > > > relatives.

> > > > > > > > He will do many good deeds (He would a righteous

> > individual); keep

> > > > > > the same

> > > > > > > > balanced state of mind both in happiness and sadness

> (He is an

> > > > > > individual

> > > > > > > > with `Satwa Guna') ; will have many good qualities.

He

> will

> > > > excel as a

> > > > > > > > popular and radiant individual.*

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > *- Meenaraja Hora*

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Why many respectable relatives - who are they? If

> Meenaraja

> > > > wanted to

> > > > > > > > indicate the native will have a good father, it would

> have

> > been

> > > > > > easy to

> > > > > > > > understand, since 9th signifies father. But he says -

> `many

> > > > > > respectable

> > > > > > > > relatives'. Of course respectability is a quality of

> 9th

> > house and

> > > > > > therefore

> > > > > > > > no doubt on that. A good respectable father is also a

> > possibility.

> > > > > > What

> > > > > > > > about other relatives - intended? From the discussion

> of 3rd

> > > > house, we

> > > > > > > > already know that -

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > In male horoscope, 9th house can indicate - wife's

> sister,

> > > > > > brother's wife,

> > > > > > > > sister's husband and wife's brother.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > In female horoscope, 9th house can indicate -

husband's

> > brother,

> > > > > > sister's

> > > > > > > > husband, brother's wife, husband's sister.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Son's son and daughter, Daughter's son and daughter,

> Mother's

> > > > > > brother (the

> > > > > > > > traditional husband as per some sects) are also

> indicated by

> > > > 9th house

> > > > > > > > itself.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > It is due to all these reasons that Meenaraja

resorted

> to the

> > > > > > statement,

> > > > > > > > `LL in 9th (bestows good results for 9th and

therefore)

> > indicate

> > > > > > having many

> > > > > > > > respectable relatives to the native'.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Meenaraja tells us that `the native will keep his

> equally

> > balanced

> > > > > > state

> > > > > > > > of mind in happiness and sadness' - why? It is

because

> he is a

> > > > > > spiritual

> > > > > > > > individual. Spiritual awareness helps the native to

> > achieve the

> > > > > > same without

> > > > > > > > much effort. In a calm mind the divine reflects and

the

> > beneficial

> > > > > > results

> > > > > > > > follow. The remaining derivations of Meenaraja are

also

> > easy to

> > > > > > understand

> > > > > > > > in this context.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Because we are discussing 9th house, there is unique

> point to

> > > > > > note. Why

> > > > > > > > 9th house signify father? If 4th is mother (as

> indicated

> > by the

> > > > > > ownership of

> > > > > > > > Moon in Cancer, 4th sign from Aries), then the natural

> > thing was

> > > > > > to say that

> > > > > > > > 10th signify father, since the same is 7th from 4th as

> > well. But

> > > > > > all the

> > > > > > > > medieval texts, tell us that - father is signified by

> 9th

> > house.

> > > > > > Why? Note

> > > > > > > > that 9th indicate `Mother's mother's brother - the

> traditional

> > > > > > husband as

> > > > > > > > per customs followed by several sects'. The Vedic

> > tradition NEVER

> > > > > > supported

> > > > > > > > such a system - then how come astrological texts

> attribute the

> > > > > > significance

> > > > > > > > of father to 9th house instead of 10th? It would be

> > interesting to

> > > > > > note the

> > > > > > > > following points in this context.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > * Only books of Jain (Garga hora etc) and South Indian

> > tradition

> > > > > > attribute

> > > > > > > > 9th house to father. [i am yet to see any other

ancient

> > Rishi hora

> > > > > > sloka

> > > > > > > > (other than Garga Hora sloka) which attribute the

> > significance of

> > > > > > `father'

> > > > > > > > to 9th house. Of course astrology did not originate in

> > South India

> > > > > > but in

> > > > > > > > the banks of `Saraswati River'. It is the ancient Jain

> > siddhas who

> > > > > > spread it

> > > > > > > > through out India, especially in south India]

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > * All ancient text agree on the fact that 9th house

> signifies

> > > > Guru.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > * While discussing 4th house (and in many other

places)

> > Parasara

> > > > > > indicated

> > > > > > > > that father is signified by 10th house rather than

9th.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > * In many traditions (including non-vedic and vedic;

> Agama and

> > > > Nigama)

> > > > > > > > father was the first Guru of the native, especially

> related to

> > > > > > Upanayana

> > > > > > > > etc. Many texts say that - Guru IS father, equating

> both

> > of them,

> > > > > > possibly

> > > > > > > > because Upanayana (providing sacred thread) is

> considered

> > as the

> > > > > > second

> > > > > > > > birth of the native.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I think -

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 1) Emphasis with Jain and South indian traditions

> > attribute the

> > > > > > > > significance of father to 9th indicate that the

> tradition of

> > > > marrying

> > > > > > > > `mother's brother' was very common among both of them.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 2) This points to the agama (non-vedic) origin of

> astrology as

> > > > > > well. Even

> > > > > > > > Mihira tells us that `Astrology is an Agama sastra'

> > > > emphasizing its

> > > > > > > > non-vedic nature. But Mihira was so authentic and

> popular,

> > that

> > > > > > from the

> > > > > > > > period of Mihira onwards considering 9th as father got

> > accepted by

> > > > > > almost

> > > > > > > > all the followers of astrology (south indian and

north

> indian;

> > > > > > non-vedic and

> > > > > > > > vedic; Jain and Hindu) alike. Note that currently

> there is

> > > > > > almost

> > > > > > > > no text available (except BPHS) that tells us that -

> 10th

> > house

> > > > > > signifies

> > > > > > > > father. It is cute fact to note.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 3) Texts like Parasara hora (BC 1400) could be an

> effort

> > to mix

> > > > > > the Agama

> > > > > > > > system of astrology (some streams of which like the

> Jains,

> > > > > > followed customs

> > > > > > > > like marrying `mother's brother') with the other

> streams

> > > > (which never

> > > > > > > > followed such a custom). This could be a controversial

> > statement.

> > > > > > But if it

> > > > > > > > is so, this also points to the fact why texts like

> BPHS are

> > > > popular in

> > > > > > > > north, while south instead depends on older Rishi

> horas (like

> > > > > > Skanda hora,

> > > > > > > > Garga hora etc) and the text of Mihira who accepts

that

> > astrology

> > > > > > is an

> > > > > > > > Agama sastra (Knowledge of Tantric origin).

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 4) It is also possible that the above statement is

> wrong.

> > It is

> > > > > > possible

> > > > > > > > that except Jains (Garga Hora) no other Rishi horas

> > followed the

> > > > > > system of

> > > > > > > > ascribing the significance of father to 9th house (we

> need to

> > > > > > study the

> > > > > > > > available quotes). It is possible that any such

> > indications we may

> > > > > > find in

> > > > > > > > BPHS are later interpolations. If the above

statements

> are

> > true we

> > > > > > would

> > > > > > > > have to resort to the statement " No Rishi Hora except

> > Garga Hora

> > > > > > attributes

> > > > > > > > the significance of father to 9th house. As per them

> father is

> > > > > > signified by

> > > > > > > > 10th house " . This is a subject with good scope for

> > astrological

> > > > > > research.

> > > > > > > > Research and come out with ancient quotes that

support

> your

> > > > arguments.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 5) Essentially thus the fact springs up that the Jain

> > contribution

> > > > > > to the

> > > > > > > > development of astrology in India - is far more than

> what we

> > > > currently

> > > > > > > > ascribe them to. Similarly the contribution of Vedic

> > tradition and

> > > > > > > > literature to the development of Nirayana astrology

is

> far

> > less

> > > > > > than what we

> > > > > > > > ascribe them to. Possibly ancient indian astrology is

a

> > branch of

> > > > > > science

> > > > > > > > developed by the Asura Tantric culture of Harappa

> (which

> > covered

> > > > > > many other

> > > > > > > > parts of the world such as Iran, Assyria etc as well)

> and

> > spread

> > > > > > throughout

> > > > > > > > India mostly through the Jain Siddhas. That was why

it

> was

> > > > still Agama

> > > > > > > > sastra (Tantric knowledge branch) even at the period

> of Mihira

> > > > > > (i.e. AD

> > > > > > > > 550). Note that even Aryabhata was a Jain. Since Sage

> > Garga - a

> > > > > > Jain sage -

> > > > > > > > who wrote Garga Hora lived around BC 1400, and was a

> > contemporary

> > > > > > of Skanda

> > > > > > > > (the originator of Nirayana astrological knowledge

who

> wrote

> > > > > > Skanda Hora),

> > > > > > > > it turns out that the Jain tradition is as old as

Vedic

> > tradition.

> > > > > > The Saiva

> > > > > > > > Agama tradition existed prior to that even in the

> Harappan

> > period.

> > > > > > So the

> > > > > > > > flow of this eternal knowledge branch known as

Nirayana

> > Astrology

> > > > > > in ancient

> > > > > > > > India would be from Saiva Agama tradition to Jain

> Tradition to

> > > > > > South India

> > > > > > > > through the sea shore (Gujarat and Orissa). And then

by

> > the period

> > > > > > of Mihira

> > > > > > > > getting accepted by the whole of India - mixing both

> Agamic

> > > > Nirayana

> > > > > > > > Zodiacal astrology and Vedic Tropical Astrology.

Mutual

> > > > > > interactions and

> > > > > > > > give and take must have happened in between as well -

> but

> > it is

> > > > > > fair to say

> > > > > > > > that till the period of Mihira (AD 550), Nirayana

> zodiacal

> > > > > > Astrology and

> > > > > > > > Sayana Tropical astrology were treated separately in

> India

> > - the

> > > > > > first

> > > > > > > > considered as Agamic and the second as Vedic

> (Nigamic). The

> > > > > > non-vedic nature

> > > > > > > > of astrology is also evident from the fact that,

> astrology

> > texts

> > > > > > don't even

> > > > > > > > mention the name of Lagatha or his student Suchi, who

> wrote

> > > > the text

> > > > > > > > `Vedanga Jyotisha' in BC1400, a text dealing with

> > astronomy and

> > > > > > calendar

> > > > > > > > system known to and followed by vedic tradition. Thus

> > possibly all

> > > > > > the 18

> > > > > > > > sages mentioned by astrological classics were outside

> vedic

> > > > > > tradition - no

> > > > > > > > wonder the hindu brahmin fanatics prior to the period

> of

> > Mihira

> > > > > > never tried

> > > > > > > > to save those astrological texts - from extinction.

> The other

> > > > > > stalwart of

> > > > > > > > the same era, Aryabhata (AD 522) was a follower of

Jain

> > religion.

> > > > > > It should

> > > > > > > > be said that - together they saved this knowledge of

> Nirayana

> > > > > > astrology from

> > > > > > > > complete extinction.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > We have drifted away a bit during this discussion,

from

> > our major

> > > > > > subject

> > > > > > > > that is `Lagna lord in various house' but still I

> think it is

> > > > > > worth it. Now

> > > > > > > > let us go back and continue our study -

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > The 9th house signifies things such as - luck, guru,

> vishnu,

> > > > purana,

> > > > > > > > story telling, father, meditation, kind donations,

> righteous

> > > > > > deeds, devotion

> > > > > > > > etc. Thus the placement of lagna lord in 9th

generates

> special

> > > > > > importance to

> > > > > > > > the derivations related to the same.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > - by Sreenadh (sreesog@)

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > =========================================

> > > > > > > > Love,

> > > > > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

May be 'kids talk'...and not relevant to astrology too...yet ..open

your eyes and look at the reality of those who live in slums and

poor dwellings. Think of those helpless children who are being

forced by the father to be sold for child prostitution or child

labour. I have watched such programmes where child trafficing is

involved from Nepal to India, especially very young girls for

prostitution. Which mother would tolerate such cruelty towards her

children? The mother will definitely consider the father of the

child as her enemey. Hence 6th house [enemey] from 4H

[mother] ....that is the 9H ...represents father. When it comes to a

child and major decisions in their lives, there are conflicts

between father and mother in most instances. Hence the 6/8

relationship between mother and father in a child's horoscope.

 

Then 7th house from 4H is mother's husband. He need not always be

the father of the native, who may be from a previous marriage. For a

child there can be only one biological father, who is represented by

9H. But for the mother there can be many husbands, represented by

10H.

 

Then if we take father as 9H ...then mother represented by 4H is 8th

from the father [9H]. If I am not mistaken 8th house represent

dowry. And for what did men marry women those days????

 

blessings

 

Renu

 

 

 

 

, Prathamesn Chawan

<upaoakcrest wrote:

>

> This reasoning is sounding as if coming from kids of divorced

parents... no offense...

>

> If 4th is mother then why not 10th as father (7th from 4th).

>

> Best

>

> Jagdish

>

>

>

> renunw <renunw wrote:

> Dear Sreenadh ji,

>

> I don't know about the ancient times. But if one look at the

present

> world, there's ample evidence to denote 9H as father. 9H is the

6th,

> the house of enemey, rival etc. etc. from 4H representing mother.

> And today in most marriages father can be mother's adversary...I'd

> rather not use the word 'enemey'.

>

> Then even in ancient times and also today, a man may vanish after

> fathering a child, naturally becoming the mother's arch-enemey.

> Hence it is fair enough to attribute 6H to father...under certain

> circumstances....

>

> Just a thought from a women's perceptive..You can take it

> lightly/seriously

>

> blessings

>

> Renu

> , " Sreenadh "

> <sreesog@> wrote:

> >

> > Possibly...

> > , " Haridas Udupa "

> > <ahudupa@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Shri sreenadh,

> > > If I may expand this thought further, we can say that 10th is

> > father by

> > > virtue of being mother's husband. If you take Kunti for

example,

> for

> > > Pandavas, Pandu is represented by 10th house. But each of the

> > pandavas have

> > > different fathers, 9th house. However, in most cases 9th as

> father,

> > 10th as

> > > father are same. May be in ancient times it was an accepted

> practice

> > to have

> > > children thro someone else if the legal father had some

problem

> with

> > > procreation.

> > > Regards,

> > > Udupa

> > >

> > > On 10/2/07, Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Haridas ji,

> > > > Ok - got it.

> > > > 9th = Father => Lagna = Native => 5th = Native's child

> > > > The circle continues right? Yah, possibly that is why, any

> > > > appreciated and adopted it. Note that Parasara says 10th

is

> father,

> > > > but Garga says 9th is father.

> > > > Good thought.

> > > > Love,

> > > > Sreenadh

> > > >

> > > > --- In

> >

<%

> 40>,

> > > > " Haridas Udupa "

> > > > <ahudupa@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Mr. sreenadh,

> > > > > 5th from 9th is Lagna itself. If 9th is father then 5th

from

> > > > it, the

> > > > > Lagna is child. It is a never ending cycle.

> > > > > Regards,

> > > > > Udupa

> > > > >

> > > > > On 10/2/07, Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear Haridas ji,

> > > > > > 5th from what?!!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 5th from 4th is - 8th

> > > > > > 5th from 9th is - Lagna

> > > > > > 5th from 5th is - 9th

> > > > > >

> > > > > > What do you mean? Please clarify.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Note: 9th is - 4th (Mother's) 7th (Mother's) Brother

> (9th). The

> > > > > > custom of 'the girl marrying Mother's brother' is present

> > among people

> > > > > > of Tamilnadu and was present possibly among Jains as

well.

> > That is why

> > > > > > 9th signify Father as per the jain sage - Garga.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Love,

> > > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > > >

> > > > > > --- In

> > > >

> >

<%

> 40>

> > > > <%40>,

> > > >

> > > > > > " Haridas Udupa "

> > > > > > <ahudupa@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear Shri Sreenadh,

> > > > > > > 10th house, being 7th to 4th indicates mother's

husband.

> > > > > > However, 9th

> > > > > > > house has to be father since 5th from it, is self (the

> > natvie, the

> > > > > > child),

> > > > > > > the Lagna. So, 10th house may be used to indicate

> > stepfather. Does

> > > > > > it sound

> > > > > > > logical?

> > > > > > > Regards,

> > > > > > > udupa

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > On 10/2/07, Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dear All,

> > > > > > > > Here is the info to start a discussion on 'Lagna

lord

> in 9th

> > > > > > house'

> > > > > > > > . Let us have a worthy discussion on the same.

> > > > > > > > =========================================

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > *

> > > > > > > > Lagna lord in 9th House

> > > > > > > > --

> > > > > > > > *

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > If lagna lord is in 9th, the native would be lucky

and

> dear to

> > > > > > people. He

> > > > > > > > will be a devotee of God Vishnu. He would an

efficient

> > individual,

> > > > > > efficient

> > > > > > > > especially in speech and oratory. With wife,

children

> and good

> > > > > > amount of

> > > > > > > > wealth (essentials for a good worldly life) he will

> lead a

> > good

> > > > > > life. He

> > > > > > > > will have many respectable relatives. He will do

many

> good

> > deeds

> > > > > > and would

> > > > > > > > be a righteous individual. It could be said that he

is

> an

> > > > > > individual with

> > > > > > > > `Satwa Guna', meaning he will have the ability to

keep

> the

> > same

> > > > > > balanced

> > > > > > > > state of mind both in happiness and sadness.

Bestowed

> with

> > > > many good

> > > > > > > > qualities, he will excel as a popular and radiant

> individual.

> > > > > > [Note that

> > > > > > > > father is NOT mentioned in any of the above results]

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > *If lagna lord is in 9th, the native would be lucky

and

> > dear to

> > > > > > people. He

> > > > > > > > will be a devotee of God Vishnu. He would an

efficient

> > individual,

> > > > > > efficient

> > > > > > > > especially in speech and oratory. With wife,

children

> and good

> > > > > > amount of

> > > > > > > > wealth (essentials for a good worldly life) he will

> lead a

> > > > good life.*

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > *- Parasara Hora*

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Since 9th is the house signifying luck it is natural

> to say

> > > > that the

> > > > > > > > native would be lucky, and a devotee of god. But why

> God

> > Vishnu?

> > > > > > There is

> > > > > > > > specific reason for this derivation. The trines

> signify the

> > > > > > trinity. Lagna

> > > > > > > > signifies Brahma; 9th Vishnu; 5th Siva. This

derivation

> > primarily

> > > > > > comes from

> > > > > > > > the zodiac itself. In the Zodiac Aries being the

first

> sign

> > > > signifies

> > > > > > > > creation and thus Brahma; 5th being Leo, the house

of

> Sun,

> > > > > > signifies Siva,

> > > > > > > > 9th being the Sagittarius, the house of Jupiter,

> signifies

> > Vishnu.

> > > > > > There is

> > > > > > > > a saying `Jeevastu Narayana', meaning `Jupiter

> signifies

> > > > Narayana (God

> > > > > > > > Vishnu floating in the primordial ocean which caused

> the

> > creation

> > > > > > of the

> > > > > > > > universe). Thus 9th signifies god Vishnu and that is

> why it is

> > > > > > derived that

> > > > > > > > lagna lord in 9th will make the native a devotee of

God

> > Vishnu.

> > > > > > Thus we get

> > > > > > > > a cute rule -

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > *Rule 8: The significance of all the 12 houses are

> related

> > to the

> > > > > > 12 signs

> > > > > > > > from Aries onwards as well. Aries could signify

> creation, so

> > > > as lagna;

> > > > > > > > Taurus could signify food so as 2nd and so on. Much

> > significance

> > > > > > that gets

> > > > > > > > associated to the houses is derived in this way. This

> > > > > > understanding can be

> > > > > > > > used while deriving results using `House Base'

system

> as

> > well. *

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Parasara tells us that if lagna lord is in 9th he

> would be an

> > > > > > efficient

> > > > > > > > individual - why? Note that 9th is a house that is

in

> the

> > visible

> > > > > > part of

> > > > > > > > zodiac. (1 to 7 = Invisible or hidden half; 7 to 12 =

> > visible or

> > > > > > popular

> > > > > > > > half). Thus the qualities of the native would be well

> > visible to

> > > > > > the public;

> > > > > > > > he is lucky, spiritual, and righteous. All these

help

> him in

> > > > being an

> > > > > > > > efficient and successful individual. But this logic

> does

> > not help

> > > > > > us in

> > > > > > > > clarifying the derivation - he would be an efficient

> > individual,

> > > > > > efficient

> > > > > > > > especially in speech and oratory. What speech has to

do

> > with 9th?

> > > > > > First it

> > > > > > > > may seem that - no, there is no relation. But note

that

> > > > Parasara is

> > > > > > > > simply extending the previous rule stated. 9th Sign

of

> > zodiac is

> > > > > > Sagittarius

> > > > > > > > owned by Jupiter, and all the qualities such as

Speech,

> > > > efficiency in

> > > > > > > > speech, interest in telling spiritual and puranic

> stories,

> > good

> > > > > > knowledge

> > > > > > > > are all related to Jupiter itself. Thus it is quite

> natural to

> > > > > > derive the

> > > > > > > > result `the native would be efficient especially in

> speech and

> > > > > > oratory'.

> > > > > > > > This ability of the native will persist even to his

old

> > age, as

> > > > > > indicated by

> > > > > > > > the fact that 9th is 8th (longevity) from 2nd house

> (speech).

> > > > > > Lagna lord in

> > > > > > > > 9th gives beneficial results to 9th, causing

longevity

> of

> > speech,

> > > > > > or in

> > > > > > > > other words, the ability to amaze people with

wonderful

> > knowledge

> > > > > > bits and

> > > > > > > > excellent speaking abilities even in old age. Why it

is

> > said that

> > > > > > he would

> > > > > > > > live a good life with wife, children and wealth?

Note

> that

> > these

> > > > > > are the

> > > > > > > > prime conditions for being a lucky person in worldly

> life.

> > As a

> > > > > > balanced,

> > > > > > > > efficient, lucky individual he is sure to have the

> prime

> > > > > > necessities for

> > > > > > > > worldly happiness - which happens to be `wife,

> children and

> > > > > > wealth'. Also

> > > > > > > > note that 9th is 5th from 5th, and in essence LL in

9th

> > bestows

> > > > > > good results

> > > > > > > > for 5th indicating - beneficial results for children

> (5th

> > house).

> > > > > > Similarly

> > > > > > > > 9th is 3rd, an upachaya (growth and well being)

house

> from

> > 7th.

> > > > > > Thus LL in

> > > > > > > > 9th gives beneficial results to 9th, indicating

growth

> and

> > > > > > well-being of 7th

> > > > > > > > (wife) as well. LL in 9th aspects 3rd house, which

is

> 2nd

> > from 2nd

> > > > > > (a rule

> > > > > > > > discussed earlier) and thus provides good results

for

> 2nd

> > house as

> > > > > > well,

> > > > > > > > providing good wealth. Thus in short, it turns out

> that -

> > `wealth,

> > > > > > wife and

> > > > > > > > children' is a well thought-out derivation,

supported

> by

> > logic in

> > > > > > many ways.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > *If lagna lord is in 9th, the native will have many

> > respectable

> > > > > > relatives.

> > > > > > > > He will do many good deeds (He would a righteous

> > individual); keep

> > > > > > the same

> > > > > > > > balanced state of mind both in happiness and sadness

> (He is an

> > > > > > individual

> > > > > > > > with `Satwa Guna') ; will have many good qualities.

He

> will

> > > > excel as a

> > > > > > > > popular and radiant individual.*

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > *- Meenaraja Hora*

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Why many respectable relatives - who are they? If

> Meenaraja

> > > > wanted to

> > > > > > > > indicate the native will have a good father, it

would

> have

> > been

> > > > > > easy to

> > > > > > > > understand, since 9th signifies father. But he says -

 

> `many

> > > > > > respectable

> > > > > > > > relatives'. Of course respectability is a quality of

> 9th

> > house and

> > > > > > therefore

> > > > > > > > no doubt on that. A good respectable father is also a

> > possibility.

> > > > > > What

> > > > > > > > about other relatives - intended? From the

discussion

> of 3rd

> > > > house, we

> > > > > > > > already know that -

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > In male horoscope, 9th house can indicate - wife's

> sister,

> > > > > > brother's wife,

> > > > > > > > sister's husband and wife's brother.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > In female horoscope, 9th house can indicate -

husband's

> > brother,

> > > > > > sister's

> > > > > > > > husband, brother's wife, husband's sister.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Son's son and daughter, Daughter's son and daughter,

> Mother's

> > > > > > brother (the

> > > > > > > > traditional husband as per some sects) are also

> indicated by

> > > > 9th house

> > > > > > > > itself.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > It is due to all these reasons that Meenaraja

resorted

> to the

> > > > > > statement,

> > > > > > > > `LL in 9th (bestows good results for 9th and

therefore)

> > indicate

> > > > > > having many

> > > > > > > > respectable relatives to the native'.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Meenaraja tells us that `the native will keep his

> equally

> > balanced

> > > > > > state

> > > > > > > > of mind in happiness and sadness' - why? It is

because

> he is a

> > > > > > spiritual

> > > > > > > > individual. Spiritual awareness helps the native to

> > achieve the

> > > > > > same without

> > > > > > > > much effort. In a calm mind the divine reflects and

the

> > beneficial

> > > > > > results

> > > > > > > > follow. The remaining derivations of Meenaraja are

also

> > easy to

> > > > > > understand

> > > > > > > > in this context.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Because we are discussing 9th house, there is unique

> point to

> > > > > > note. Why

> > > > > > > > 9th house signify father? If 4th is mother (as

> indicated

> > by the

> > > > > > ownership of

> > > > > > > > Moon in Cancer, 4th sign from Aries), then the

natural

> > thing was

> > > > > > to say that

> > > > > > > > 10th signify father, since the same is 7th from 4th

as

> > well. But

> > > > > > all the

> > > > > > > > medieval texts, tell us that - father is signified

by

> 9th

> > house.

> > > > > > Why? Note

> > > > > > > > that 9th indicate `Mother's mother's brother - the

> traditional

> > > > > > husband as

> > > > > > > > per customs followed by several sects'. The Vedic

> > tradition NEVER

> > > > > > supported

> > > > > > > > such a system - then how come astrological texts

> attribute the

> > > > > > significance

> > > > > > > > of father to 9th house instead of 10th? It would be

> > interesting to

> > > > > > note the

> > > > > > > > following points in this context.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > * Only books of Jain (Garga hora etc) and South

Indian

> > tradition

> > > > > > attribute

> > > > > > > > 9th house to father. [i am yet to see any other

ancient

> > Rishi hora

> > > > > > sloka

> > > > > > > > (other than Garga Hora sloka) which attribute the

> > significance of

> > > > > > `father'

> > > > > > > > to 9th house. Of course astrology did not originate

in

> > South India

> > > > > > but in

> > > > > > > > the banks of `Saraswati River'. It is the ancient

Jain

> > siddhas who

> > > > > > spread it

> > > > > > > > through out India, especially in south India]

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > * All ancient text agree on the fact that 9th house

> signifies

> > > > Guru.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > * While discussing 4th house (and in many other

places)

> > Parasara

> > > > > > indicated

> > > > > > > > that father is signified by 10th house rather than

9th.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > * In many traditions (including non-vedic and vedic;

> Agama and

> > > > Nigama)

> > > > > > > > father was the first Guru of the native, especially

> related to

> > > > > > Upanayana

> > > > > > > > etc. Many texts say that - Guru IS father, equating

> both

> > of them,

> > > > > > possibly

> > > > > > > > because Upanayana (providing sacred thread) is

> considered

> > as the

> > > > > > second

> > > > > > > > birth of the native.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I think -

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 1) Emphasis with Jain and South indian traditions

> > attribute the

> > > > > > > > significance of father to 9th indicate that the

> tradition of

> > > > marrying

> > > > > > > > `mother's brother' was very common among both of

them.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 2) This points to the agama (non-vedic) origin of

> astrology as

> > > > > > well. Even

> > > > > > > > Mihira tells us that `Astrology is an Agama sastra'

> > > > emphasizing its

> > > > > > > > non-vedic nature. But Mihira was so authentic and

> popular,

> > that

> > > > > > from the

> > > > > > > > period of Mihira onwards considering 9th as father

got

> > accepted by

> > > > > > almost

> > > > > > > > all the followers of astrology (south indian and

north

> indian;

> > > > > > non-vedic and

> > > > > > > > vedic; Jain and Hindu) alike. Note that currently

> there is

> > > > > > almost

> > > > > > > > no text available (except BPHS) that tells us that -

> 10th

> > house

> > > > > > signifies

> > > > > > > > father. It is cute fact to note.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 3) Texts like Parasara hora (BC 1400) could be an

> effort

> > to mix

> > > > > > the Agama

> > > > > > > > system of astrology (some streams of which like the

> Jains,

> > > > > > followed customs

> > > > > > > > like marrying `mother's brother') with the other

> streams

> > > > (which never

> > > > > > > > followed such a custom). This could be a

controversial

> > statement.

> > > > > > But if it

> > > > > > > > is so, this also points to the fact why texts like

> BPHS are

> > > > popular in

> > > > > > > > north, while south instead depends on older Rishi

> horas (like

> > > > > > Skanda hora,

> > > > > > > > Garga hora etc) and the text of Mihira who accepts

that

> > astrology

> > > > > > is an

> > > > > > > > Agama sastra (Knowledge of Tantric origin).

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 4) It is also possible that the above statement is

> wrong.

> > It is

> > > > > > possible

> > > > > > > > that except Jains (Garga Hora) no other Rishi horas

> > followed the

> > > > > > system of

> > > > > > > > ascribing the significance of father to 9th house

(we

> need to

> > > > > > study the

> > > > > > > > available quotes). It is possible that any such

> > indications we may

> > > > > > find in

> > > > > > > > BPHS are later interpolations. If the above

statements

> are

> > true we

> > > > > > would

> > > > > > > > have to resort to the statement " No Rishi Hora except

> > Garga Hora

> > > > > > attributes

> > > > > > > > the significance of father to 9th house. As per them

> father is

> > > > > > signified by

> > > > > > > > 10th house " . This is a subject with good scope for

> > astrological

> > > > > > research.

> > > > > > > > Research and come out with ancient quotes that

support

> your

> > > > arguments.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 5) Essentially thus the fact springs up that the Jain

> > contribution

> > > > > > to the

> > > > > > > > development of astrology in India - is far more than

> what we

> > > > currently

> > > > > > > > ascribe them to. Similarly the contribution of Vedic

> > tradition and

> > > > > > > > literature to the development of Nirayana astrology

is

> far

> > less

> > > > > > than what we

> > > > > > > > ascribe them to. Possibly ancient indian astrology

is a

> > branch of

> > > > > > science

> > > > > > > > developed by the Asura Tantric culture of Harappa

> (which

> > covered

> > > > > > many other

> > > > > > > > parts of the world such as Iran, Assyria etc as

well)

> and

> > spread

> > > > > > throughout

> > > > > > > > India mostly through the Jain Siddhas. That was why

it

> was

> > > > still Agama

> > > > > > > > sastra (Tantric knowledge branch) even at the period

> of Mihira

> > > > > > (i.e. AD

> > > > > > > > 550). Note that even Aryabhata was a Jain. Since Sage

> > Garga - a

> > > > > > Jain sage -

> > > > > > > > who wrote Garga Hora lived around BC 1400, and was a

> > contemporary

> > > > > > of Skanda

> > > > > > > > (the originator of Nirayana astrological knowledge

who

> wrote

> > > > > > Skanda Hora),

> > > > > > > > it turns out that the Jain tradition is as old as

Vedic

> > tradition.

> > > > > > The Saiva

> > > > > > > > Agama tradition existed prior to that even in the

> Harappan

> > period.

> > > > > > So the

> > > > > > > > flow of this eternal knowledge branch known as

Nirayana

> > Astrology

> > > > > > in ancient

> > > > > > > > India would be from Saiva Agama tradition to Jain

> Tradition to

> > > > > > South India

> > > > > > > > through the sea shore (Gujarat and Orissa). And then

by

> > the period

> > > > > > of Mihira

> > > > > > > > getting accepted by the whole of India - mixing both

> Agamic

> > > > Nirayana

> > > > > > > > Zodiacal astrology and Vedic Tropical Astrology.

Mutual

> > > > > > interactions and

> > > > > > > > give and take must have happened in between as well -

 

> but

> > it is

> > > > > > fair to say

> > > > > > > > that till the period of Mihira (AD 550), Nirayana

> zodiacal

> > > > > > Astrology and

> > > > > > > > Sayana Tropical astrology were treated separately in

> India

> > - the

> > > > > > first

> > > > > > > > considered as Agamic and the second as Vedic

> (Nigamic). The

> > > > > > non-vedic nature

> > > > > > > > of astrology is also evident from the fact that,

> astrology

> > texts

> > > > > > don't even

> > > > > > > > mention the name of Lagatha or his student Suchi,

who

> wrote

> > > > the text

> > > > > > > > `Vedanga Jyotisha' in BC1400, a text dealing with

> > astronomy and

> > > > > > calendar

> > > > > > > > system known to and followed by vedic tradition. Thus

> > possibly all

> > > > > > the 18

> > > > > > > > sages mentioned by astrological classics were

outside

> vedic

> > > > > > tradition - no

> > > > > > > > wonder the hindu brahmin fanatics prior to the

period

> of

> > Mihira

> > > > > > never tried

> > > > > > > > to save those astrological texts - from extinction.

> The other

> > > > > > stalwart of

> > > > > > > > the same era, Aryabhata (AD 522) was a follower of

Jain

> > religion.

> > > > > > It should

> > > > > > > > be said that - together they saved this knowledge of

> Nirayana

> > > > > > astrology from

> > > > > > > > complete extinction.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > We have drifted away a bit during this discussion,

from

> > our major

> > > > > > subject

> > > > > > > > that is `Lagna lord in various house' but still I

> think it is

> > > > > > worth it. Now

> > > > > > > > let us go back and continue our study -

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > The 9th house signifies things such as - luck, guru,

> vishnu,

> > > > purana,

> > > > > > > > story telling, father, meditation, kind donations,

> righteous

> > > > > > deeds, devotion

> > > > > > > > etc. Thus the placement of lagna lord in 9th

generates

> special

> > > > > > importance to

> > > > > > > > the derivations related to the same.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > - by Sreenadh (sreesog@)

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > =========================================

> > > > > > > > Love,

> > > > > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

 

> Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!

> Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at

Games.

>

[Guest guest]

Namaste Sreenadh

 

Can you explain your “logic”

again re:” 9th is - 4th (Mother's) 7th (Mother's) Brother (9th)”? Surely Younger Brother to Mother

would be 6th House (ie 3rd from 4th) whilst

Elder Brother would be 2nd house (11th from 4th)?

Am I missing something?

I can see 9th House is 6th

from 4th and hence can say Mothers Uncle and Not Mothers Brother? Is

this what you meant?

 

Regards

……..

 

Jai Sita Ram

 

Ram

 

 

 

 

 

On Behalf Of Sreenadh

02 October 2007 12:31

 

Subject:

Re: Lagna lord in 9th House

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Haridas ji,

5th from what?!!

 

5th from 4th is - 8th

5th from 9th is - Lagna

5th from 5th is - 9th

 

What do you mean? Please clarify.

 

Note: 9th is - 4th (Mother's) 7th (Mother's) Brother (9th). The

custom of 'the girl marrying Mother's brother' is present among people

of Tamilnadu and was present possibly among Jains as well. That is why

9th signify Father as per the jain sage - Garga.

 

Love,

Sreenadh

 

,

" Haridas Udupa "

<ahudupa wrote:

>

> Dear Shri Sreenadh,

> 10th house, being 7th to 4th indicates mother's husband.

However, 9th

> house has to be father since 5th from it, is self (the natvie, the

child),

> the Lagna. So, 10th house may be used to indicate stepfather. Does

it sound

> logical?

> Regards,

> udupa

>

> On 10/2/07, Sreenadh <sreesog wrote:

> >

> > Dear All,

> > Here is the info to start a discussion on 'Lagna lord in 9th

house'

> > . Let us have a worthy discussion on the same.

> > =========================================

> >

> > *

> > Lagna lord in 9th House

> > --

> > *

> >

> > If lagna lord is in 9th, the native would be lucky and dear to

people. He

> > will be a devotee of God Vishnu. He would an efficient individual,

efficient

> > especially in speech and oratory. With wife, children and good

amount of

> > wealth (essentials for a good worldly life) he will lead a good

life. He

> > will have many respectable relatives. He will do many good deeds

and would

> > be a righteous individual. It could be said that he is an

individual with

> > `Satwa Guna', meaning he will have the ability to keep the same

balanced

> > state of mind both in happiness and sadness. Bestowed with many good

> > qualities, he will excel as a popular and radiant individual.

[Note that

> > father is NOT mentioned in any of the above results]

> >

> > *If lagna lord is in 9th, the native would be lucky and dear to

people. He

> > will be a devotee of God Vishnu. He would an efficient individual,

efficient

> > especially in speech and oratory. With wife, children and good

amount of

> > wealth (essentials for a good worldly life) he will lead a good

life.*

> >

> > *- Parasara Hora*

> >

> > Since 9th is the house signifying luck it is natural to say that the

> > native would be lucky, and a devotee of god. But why God Vishnu?

There is

> > specific reason for this derivation. The trines signify the

trinity. Lagna

> > signifies Brahma; 9th Vishnu; 5th Siva. This derivation primarily

comes from

> > the zodiac itself. In the Zodiac Aries being the first sign signifies

> > creation and thus Brahma; 5th being Leo, the house of Sun,

signifies Siva,

> > 9th being the Sagittarius, the house of Jupiter, signifies Vishnu.

There is

> > a saying `Jeevastu Narayana', meaning `Jupiter signifies Narayana

(God

> > Vishnu floating in the primordial ocean which caused the creation

of the

> > universe). Thus 9th signifies god Vishnu and that is why it is

derived that

> > lagna lord in 9th will make the native a devotee of God Vishnu.

Thus we get

> > a cute rule -

> >

> > *Rule 8: The significance of all the 12 houses are related to the

12 signs

> > from Aries onwards as well. Aries could signify creation, so as

lagna;

> > Taurus could signify food so as 2nd and so on. Much significance

that gets

> > associated to the houses is derived in this way. This

understanding can be

> > used while deriving results using `House Base' system as well. *

> >

> > Parasara tells us that if lagna lord is in 9th he would be an

efficient

> > individual - why? Note that 9th is a house that is in the visible

part of

> > zodiac. (1 to 7 = Invisible or hidden half; 7 to 12 = visible or

popular

> > half). Thus the qualities of the native would be well visible to

the public;

> > he is lucky, spiritual, and righteous. All these help him in being an

> > efficient and successful individual. But this logic does not help

us in

> > clarifying the derivation - he would be an efficient individual,

efficient

> > especially in speech and oratory. What speech has to do with 9th?

First it

> > may seem that - no, there is no relation. But note that Parasara is

> > simply extending the previous rule stated. 9th Sign of zodiac is

Sagittarius

> > owned by Jupiter, and all the qualities such as Speech, efficiency in

> > speech, interest in telling spiritual and puranic stories, good

knowledge

> > are all related to Jupiter itself. Thus it is quite natural to

derive the

> > result `the native would be efficient especially in speech and

oratory'.

> > This ability of the native will persist even to his old age, as

indicated by

> > the fact that 9th is 8th (longevity) from 2nd house (speech).

Lagna lord in

> > 9th gives beneficial results to 9th, causing longevity of speech,

or in

> > other words, the ability to amaze people with wonderful knowledge

bits and

> > excellent speaking abilities even in old age. Why it is said that

he would

> > live a good life with wife, children and wealth? Note that these

are the

> > prime conditions for being a lucky person in worldly life. As a

balanced,

> > efficient, lucky individual he is sure to have the prime

necessities for

> > worldly happiness - which happens to be `wife, children and

wealth'. Also

> > note that 9th is 5th from 5th, and in essence LL in 9th bestows

good results

> > for 5th indicating - beneficial results for children (5th house).

Similarly

> > 9th is 3rd, an upachaya (growth and well being) house from 7th.

Thus LL in

> > 9th gives beneficial results to 9th, indicating growth and

well-being of 7th

> > (wife) as well. LL in 9th aspects 3rd house, which is 2nd from 2nd

(a rule

> > discussed earlier) and thus provides good results for 2nd house as

well,

> > providing good wealth. Thus in short, it turns out that - `wealth,

wife and

> > children' is a well thought-out derivation, supported by logic in

many ways.

> >

> > *If lagna lord is in 9th, the native will have many respectable

relatives.

> > He will do many good deeds (He would a righteous individual); keep

the same

> > balanced state of mind both in happiness and sadness (He is an

individual

> > with `Satwa Guna') ; will have many good qualities. He will excel as

a

> > popular and radiant individual.*

> >

> > *- Meenaraja Hora*

> >

> > Why many respectable relatives - who are they? If Meenaraja wanted to

> > indicate the native will have a good father, it would have been

easy to

> > understand, since 9th signifies father. But he says - `many

respectable

> > relatives'. Of course respectability is a quality of 9th house and

therefore

> > no doubt on that. A good respectable father is also a possibility.

What

> > about other relatives - intended? From the discussion of 3rd house,

we

> > already know that -

> >

> > In male horoscope, 9th house can indicate - wife's sister,

brother's wife,

> > sister's husband and wife's brother.

> >

> > In female horoscope, 9th house can indicate - husband's brother,

sister's

> > husband, brother's wife, husband's sister.

> >

> > Son's son and daughter, Daughter's son and daughter, Mother's

brother (the

> > traditional husband as per some sects) are also indicated by 9th

house

> > itself.

> >

> > It is due to all these reasons that Meenaraja resorted to the

statement,

> > `LL in 9th (bestows good results for 9th and therefore) indicate

having many

> > respectable relatives to the native'.

> >

> > Meenaraja tells us that `the native will keep his equally balanced

state

> > of mind in happiness and sadness' - why? It is because he is a

spiritual

> > individual. Spiritual awareness helps the native to achieve the

same without

> > much effort. In a calm mind the divine reflects and the beneficial

results

> > follow. The remaining derivations of Meenaraja are also easy to

understand

> > in this context.

> >

> > Because we are discussing 9th house, there is unique point to

note. Why

> > 9th house signify father? If 4th is mother (as indicated by the

ownership of

> > Moon in Cancer, 4th sign from Aries), then the natural thing was

to say that

> > 10th signify father, since the same is 7th from 4th as well. But

all the

> > medieval texts, tell us that - father is signified by 9th house.

Why? Note

> > that 9th indicate `Mother's mother's brother - the traditional

husband as

> > per customs followed by several sects'. The Vedic tradition NEVER

supported

> > such a system - then how come astrological texts attribute the

significance

> > of father to 9th house instead of 10th? It would be interesting to

note the

> > following points in this context.

> >

> > * Only books of Jain (Garga hora etc) and South Indian tradition

attribute

> > 9th house to father. [i am yet to see any other ancient Rishi hora

sloka

> > (other than Garga Hora sloka) which attribute the significance of

`father'

> > to 9th house. Of course astrology did not originate in South India

but in

> > the banks of `Saraswati

River'. It is the ancient

Jain siddhas who

spread it

> > through out India,

especially in south India]

> >

> > * All ancient text agree on the fact that 9th house signifies Guru.

> >

> > * While discussing 4th house (and in many other places) Parasara

indicated

> > that father is signified by 10th house rather than 9th.

> >

> > * In many traditions (including non-vedic and vedic; Agama and

Nigama)

> > father was the first Guru of the native, especially related to

Upanayana

> > etc. Many texts say that - Guru IS father, equating both of them,

possibly

> > because Upanayana (providing sacred thread) is considered as the

second

> > birth of the native.

> >

> > I think -

> >

> > 1) Emphasis with Jain and South indian traditions attribute the

> > significance of father to 9th indicate that the tradition of marrying

> > `mother's brother' was very common among both of them.

> >

> > 2) This points to the agama (non-vedic) origin of astrology as

well. Even

> > Mihira tells us that `Astrology is an Agama sastra' emphasizing its

> > non-vedic nature. But Mihira was so authentic and popular, that

from the

> > period of Mihira onwards considering 9th as father got accepted by

almost

> > all the followers of astrology (south indian and north indian;

non-vedic and

> > vedic; Jain and Hindu) alike. Note that currently there is

almost

> > no text available (except BPHS) that tells us that - 10th house

signifies

> > father. It is cute fact to note.

> >

> > 3) Texts like Parasara hora (BC 1400) could be an effort to mix

the Agama

> > system of astrology (some streams of which like the Jains,

followed customs

> > like marrying `mother's brother') with the other streams (which never

> > followed such a custom). This could be a controversial statement.

But if it

> > is so, this also points to the fact why texts like BPHS are popular

in

> > north, while south instead depends on older Rishi horas (like

Skanda hora,

> > Garga hora etc) and the text of Mihira who accepts that astrology

is an

> > Agama sastra (Knowledge of Tantric origin).

> >

> > 4) It is also possible that the above statement is wrong. It is

possible

> > that except Jains (Garga Hora) no other Rishi horas followed the

system of

> > ascribing the significance of father to 9th house (we need to

study the

> > available quotes). It is possible that any such indications we may

find in

> > BPHS are later interpolations. If the above statements are true we

would

> > have to resort to the statement " No Rishi Hora except Garga Hora

attributes

> > the significance of father to 9th house. As per them father is

signified by

> > 10th house " . This is a subject with good scope for astrological

research.

> > Research and come out with ancient quotes that support your

arguments.

> >

> > 5) Essentially thus the fact springs up that the Jain contribution

to the

> > development of astrology in India - is far more than what we

currently

> > ascribe them to. Similarly the contribution of Vedic tradition and

> > literature to the development of Nirayana astrology is far less

than what we

> > ascribe them to. Possibly ancient indian astrology is a branch of

science

> > developed by the Asura Tantric culture of Harappa

(which covered

many other

> > parts of the world such as Iran, Assyria etc as well) and

spread

throughout

> > India

mostly through the Jain Siddhas. That was why it was still Agama

> > sastra (Tantric knowledge branch) even at the period of Mihira

(i.e. AD

> > 550). Note that even Aryabhata was a Jain. Since Sage Garga - a

Jain sage -

> > who wrote Garga Hora lived around BC 1400, and was a contemporary

of Skanda

> > (the originator of Nirayana astrological knowledge who wrote

Skanda Hora),

> > it turns out that the Jain tradition is as old as Vedic tradition.

The Saiva

> > Agama tradition existed prior to that even in the Harappan period.

So the

> > flow of this eternal knowledge branch known as Nirayana Astrology

in ancient

> > India

would be from Saiva Agama tradition to Jain Tradition to

South India

> > through the sea shore (Gujarat and

Orissa). And then by the period

of Mihira

> > getting accepted by the whole of India - mixing both Agamic Nirayana

> > Zodiacal astrology and Vedic Tropical Astrology. Mutual

interactions and

> > give and take must have happened in between as well - but it is

fair to say

> > that till the period of Mihira (AD 550), Nirayana zodiacal

Astrology and

> > Sayana Tropical astrology were treated separately in India - the

first

> > considered as Agamic and the second as Vedic (Nigamic). The

non-vedic nature

> > of astrology is also evident from the fact that, astrology texts

don't even

> > mention the name of Lagatha or his student Suchi, who wrote the text

> > `Vedanga Jyotisha' in BC1400, a text dealing with astronomy and

calendar

> > system known to and followed by vedic tradition. Thus possibly all

the 18

> > sages mentioned by astrological classics were outside vedic

tradition - no

> > wonder the hindu brahmin fanatics prior to the period of Mihira

never tried

> > to save those astrological texts - from extinction. The other

stalwart of

> > the same era, Aryabhata (AD 522) was a follower of Jain religion.

It should

> > be said that - together they saved this knowledge of Nirayana

astrology from

> > complete extinction.

> >

> > We have drifted away a bit during this discussion, from our major

subject

> > that is `Lagna lord in various house' but still I think it is

worth it. Now

> > let us go back and continue our study -

> >

> > The 9th house signifies things such as - luck, guru, vishnu, purana,

> > story telling, father, meditation, kind donations, righteous

deeds, devotion

> > etc. Thus the placement of lagna lord in 9th generates special

importance to

> > the derivations related to the same.

> >

> > - by Sreenadh (sreesog)

> >

> > =========================================

> > Love,

> > Sreenadh

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Ram ji,

==>

> Can you explain your " logic " again re: " 9th is - 4th (Mother's) 7th

(Mother's) Brother (9th)

<==

Q: Why 9th can signify father?

Answer:

* 4th is Mother

* 7th is 4th from 4th, i.e. Mother's Mother, i.e. Grad-mother of the

native.

* 9th is 3rd from 7th, i.e. Brother of Grad-mother of the native.

(Mother's Uncle)

 

Q: Why brother of Grad-Mother of the native should be considered

Father of the Native?

 

A: Because the native's Mother married her Uncle, i.e. Her Mother's

Brother!

This is the traditional system of marriage in Tamilnadu. Thus

custom must have been followed by many sect in including Jains in

ancient India.

 

Note that, the girl marrying her Uncle (mother's brother) was

followed in Tamilnadu & the girl marrying her Uncle's son was

followed in Kerala. [both these systems of 'marriage from blood

relation' should be contempted - that is another issue - which is not

relevant here]. The system of 'the girl marrying her maternal Uncle'

must have been followed by Jains as well. It is because of that Garga

(a Jain sage) mentioned the same in his text.

 

Hope the logic and derivation is clear.

Love,

Sreenadh

 

, " Ram Jaswal "

<rkjaswal wrote:

>

> Namaste Sreenadh

>

> Can you explain your " logic " again re: " 9th is - 4th (Mother's) 7th

> (Mother's) Brother (9th) " ? Surely Younger Brother to Mother would

be 6th

> House (ie 3rd from 4th) whilst Elder Brother would be 2nd house

(11th from

> 4th)? Am I missing something?

> I can see 9th House is 6th from 4th and hence can say Mothers Uncle

and Not

> Mothers Brother? Is this what you meant?

>

> Regards ....

>

> Jai Sita Ram

>

> Ram

>

> _____

>

>

> On Behalf Of

Sreenadh

> 02 October 2007 12:31

>

> Re: Lagna lord in 9th House

>

> Dear Haridas ji,

> 5th from what?!!

>

> 5th from 4th is - 8th

> 5th from 9th is - Lagna

> 5th from 5th is - 9th

>

> What do you mean? Please clarify.

>

> Note: 9th is - 4th (Mother's) 7th (Mother's) Brother (9th). The

> custom of 'the girl marrying Mother's brother' is present among

people

> of Tamilnadu and was present possibly among Jains as well. That is

why

> 9th signify Father as per the jain sage - Garga.

>

> Love,

> Sreenadh

>

> ancient_indian_ <%

40>

> astrology , " Haridas Udupa "

> <ahudupa@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Shri Sreenadh,

> > 10th house, being 7th to 4th indicates mother's husband.

> However, 9th

> > house has to be father since 5th from it, is self (the natvie, the

> child),

> > the Lagna. So, 10th house may be used to indicate stepfather. Does

> it sound

> > logical?

> > Regards,

> > udupa

> >

> > On 10/2/07, Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear All,

> > > Here is the info to start a discussion on 'Lagna lord in 9th

> house'

> > > . Let us have a worthy discussion on the same.

> > > =========================================

> > >

> > > *

> > > Lagna lord in 9th House

> > > --

> > > *

> > >

> > > If lagna lord is in 9th, the native would be lucky and dear to

> people. He

> > > will be a devotee of God Vishnu. He would an efficient

individual,

> efficient

> > > especially in speech and oratory. With wife, children and good

> amount of

> > > wealth (essentials for a good worldly life) he will lead a good

> life. He

> > > will have many respectable relatives. He will do many good deeds

> and would

> > > be a righteous individual. It could be said that he is an

> individual with

> > > `Satwa Guna', meaning he will have the ability to keep the same

> balanced

> > > state of mind both in happiness and sadness. Bestowed with many

good

> > > qualities, he will excel as a popular and radiant individual.

> [Note that

> > > father is NOT mentioned in any of the above results]

> > >

> > > *If lagna lord is in 9th, the native would be lucky and dear to

> people. He

> > > will be a devotee of God Vishnu. He would an efficient

individual,

> efficient

> > > especially in speech and oratory. With wife, children and good

> amount of

> > > wealth (essentials for a good worldly life) he will lead a good

life.*

> > >

> > > *- Parasara Hora*

> > >

> > > Since 9th is the house signifying luck it is natural to say

that the

> > > native would be lucky, and a devotee of god. But why God Vishnu?

> There is

> > > specific reason for this derivation. The trines signify the

> trinity. Lagna

> > > signifies Brahma; 9th Vishnu; 5th Siva. This derivation

primarily

> comes from

> > > the zodiac itself. In the Zodiac Aries being the first sign

signifies

> > > creation and thus Brahma; 5th being Leo, the house of Sun,

> signifies Siva,

> > > 9th being the Sagittarius, the house of Jupiter, signifies

Vishnu.

> There is

> > > a saying `Jeevastu Narayana', meaning `Jupiter signifies

Narayana (God

> > > Vishnu floating in the primordial ocean which caused the

creation

> of the

> > > universe). Thus 9th signifies god Vishnu and that is why it is

> derived that

> > > lagna lord in 9th will make the native a devotee of God Vishnu.

> Thus we get

> > > a cute rule -

> > >

> > > *Rule 8: The significance of all the 12 houses are related to

the

> 12 signs

> > > from Aries onwards as well. Aries could signify creation, so as

lagna;

> > > Taurus could signify food so as 2nd and so on. Much significance

> that gets

> > > associated to the houses is derived in this way. This

> understanding can be

> > > used while deriving results using `House Base' system as well. *

> > >

> > > Parasara tells us that if lagna lord is in 9th he would be an

> efficient

> > > individual - why? Note that 9th is a house that is in the

visible

> part of

> > > zodiac. (1 to 7 = Invisible or hidden half; 7 to 12 = visible or

> popular

> > > half). Thus the qualities of the native would be well visible to

> the public;

> > > he is lucky, spiritual, and righteous. All these help him in

being an

> > > efficient and successful individual. But this logic does not

help

> us in

> > > clarifying the derivation - he would be an efficient individual,

> efficient

> > > especially in speech and oratory. What speech has to do with

9th?

> First it

> > > may seem that - no, there is no relation. But note that

Parasara is

> > > simply extending the previous rule stated. 9th Sign of zodiac is

> Sagittarius

> > > owned by Jupiter, and all the qualities such as Speech,

efficiency in

> > > speech, interest in telling spiritual and puranic stories, good

> knowledge

> > > are all related to Jupiter itself. Thus it is quite natural to

> derive the

> > > result `the native would be efficient especially in speech and

> oratory'.

> > > This ability of the native will persist even to his old age, as

> indicated by

> > > the fact that 9th is 8th (longevity) from 2nd house (speech).

> Lagna lord in

> > > 9th gives beneficial results to 9th, causing longevity of

speech,

> or in

> > > other words, the ability to amaze people with wonderful

knowledge

> bits and

> > > excellent speaking abilities even in old age. Why it is said

that

> he would

> > > live a good life with wife, children and wealth? Note that these

> are the

> > > prime conditions for being a lucky person in worldly life. As a

> balanced,

> > > efficient, lucky individual he is sure to have the prime

> necessities for

> > > worldly happiness - which happens to be `wife, children and

> wealth'. Also

> > > note that 9th is 5th from 5th, and in essence LL in 9th bestows

> good results

> > > for 5th indicating - beneficial results for children (5th

house).

> Similarly

> > > 9th is 3rd, an upachaya (growth and well being) house from 7th.

> Thus LL in

> > > 9th gives beneficial results to 9th, indicating growth and

> well-being of 7th

> > > (wife) as well. LL in 9th aspects 3rd house, which is 2nd from

2nd

> (a rule

> > > discussed earlier) and thus provides good results for 2nd house

as

> well,

> > > providing good wealth. Thus in short, it turns out that -

`wealth,

> wife and

> > > children' is a well thought-out derivation, supported by logic

in

> many ways.

> > >

> > > *If lagna lord is in 9th, the native will have many respectable

> relatives.

> > > He will do many good deeds (He would a righteous individual);

keep

> the same

> > > balanced state of mind both in happiness and sadness (He is an

> individual

> > > with `Satwa Guna') ; will have many good qualities. He will

excel as a

> > > popular and radiant individual.*

> > >

> > > *- Meenaraja Hora*

> > >

> > > Why many respectable relatives - who are they? If Meenaraja

wanted to

> > > indicate the native will have a good father, it would have been

> easy to

> > > understand, since 9th signifies father. But he says - `many

> respectable

> > > relatives'. Of course respectability is a quality of 9th house

and

> therefore

> > > no doubt on that. A good respectable father is also a

possibility.

> What

> > > about other relatives - intended? From the discussion of 3rd

house, we

> > > already know that -

> > >

> > > In male horoscope, 9th house can indicate - wife's sister,

> brother's wife,

> > > sister's husband and wife's brother.

> > >

> > > In female horoscope, 9th house can indicate - husband's brother,

> sister's

> > > husband, brother's wife, husband's sister.

> > >

> > > Son's son and daughter, Daughter's son and daughter, Mother's

> brother (the

> > > traditional husband as per some sects) are also indicated by

9th house

> > > itself.

> > >

> > > It is due to all these reasons that Meenaraja resorted to the

> statement,

> > > `LL in 9th (bestows good results for 9th and therefore) indicate

> having many

> > > respectable relatives to the native'.

> > >

> > > Meenaraja tells us that `the native will keep his equally

balanced

> state

> > > of mind in happiness and sadness' - why? It is because he is a

> spiritual

> > > individual. Spiritual awareness helps the native to achieve the

> same without

> > > much effort. In a calm mind the divine reflects and the

beneficial

> results

> > > follow. The remaining derivations of Meenaraja are also easy to

> understand

> > > in this context.

> > >

> > > Because we are discussing 9th house, there is unique point to

> note. Why

> > > 9th house signify father? If 4th is mother (as indicated by the

> ownership of

> > > Moon in Cancer, 4th sign from Aries), then the natural thing was

> to say that

> > > 10th signify father, since the same is 7th from 4th as well. But

> all the

> > > medieval texts, tell us that - father is signified by 9th house.

> Why? Note

> > > that 9th indicate `Mother's mother's brother - the traditional

> husband as

> > > per customs followed by several sects'. The Vedic tradition

NEVER

> supported

> > > such a system - then how come astrological texts attribute the

> significance

> > > of father to 9th house instead of 10th? It would be interesting

to

> note the

> > > following points in this context.

> > >

> > > * Only books of Jain (Garga hora etc) and South Indian tradition

> attribute

> > > 9th house to father. [i am yet to see any other ancient Rishi

hora

> sloka

> > > (other than Garga Hora sloka) which attribute the significance

of

> `father'

> > > to 9th house. Of course astrology did not originate in South

India

> but in

> > > the banks of `Saraswati River'. It is the ancient Jain siddhas

who

> spread it

> > > through out India, especially in south India]

> > >

> > > * All ancient text agree on the fact that 9th house signifies

Guru.

> > >

> > > * While discussing 4th house (and in many other places) Parasara

> indicated

> > > that father is signified by 10th house rather than 9th.

> > >

> > > * In many traditions (including non-vedic and vedic; Agama and

Nigama)

> > > father was the first Guru of the native, especially related to

> Upanayana

> > > etc. Many texts say that - Guru IS father, equating both of

them,

> possibly

> > > because Upanayana (providing sacred thread) is considered as the

> second

> > > birth of the native.

> > >

> > > I think -

> > >

> > > 1) Emphasis with Jain and South indian traditions attribute the

> > > significance of father to 9th indicate that the tradition of

marrying

> > > `mother's brother' was very common among both of them.

> > >

> > > 2) This points to the agama (non-vedic) origin of astrology as

> well. Even

> > > Mihira tells us that `Astrology is an Agama sastra' emphasizing

its

> > > non-vedic nature. But Mihira was so authentic and popular, that

> from the

> > > period of Mihira onwards considering 9th as father got accepted

by

> almost

> > > all the followers of astrology (south indian and north indian;

> non-vedic and

> > > vedic; Jain and Hindu) alike. Note that currently there is

> almost

> > > no text available (except BPHS) that tells us that - 10th house

> signifies

> > > father. It is cute fact to note.

> > >

> > > 3) Texts like Parasara hora (BC 1400) could be an effort to mix

> the Agama

> > > system of astrology (some streams of which like the Jains,

> followed customs

> > > like marrying `mother's brother') with the other streams (which

never

> > > followed such a custom). This could be a controversial

statement.

> But if it

> > > is so, this also points to the fact why texts like BPHS are

popular in

> > > north, while south instead depends on older Rishi horas (like

> Skanda hora,

> > > Garga hora etc) and the text of Mihira who accepts that

astrology

> is an

> > > Agama sastra (Knowledge of Tantric origin).

> > >

> > > 4) It is also possible that the above statement is wrong. It is

> possible

> > > that except Jains (Garga Hora) no other Rishi horas followed the

> system of

> > > ascribing the significance of father to 9th house (we need to

> study the

> > > available quotes). It is possible that any such indications we

may

> find in

> > > BPHS are later interpolations. If the above statements are true

we

> would

> > > have to resort to the statement " No Rishi Hora except Garga Hora

> attributes

> > > the significance of father to 9th house. As per them father is

> signified by

> > > 10th house " . This is a subject with good scope for astrological

> research.

> > > Research and come out with ancient quotes that support your

arguments.

> > >

> > > 5) Essentially thus the fact springs up that the Jain

contribution

> to the

> > > development of astrology in India - is far more than what we

currently

> > > ascribe them to. Similarly the contribution of Vedic tradition

and

> > > literature to the development of Nirayana astrology is far less

> than what we

> > > ascribe them to. Possibly ancient indian astrology is a branch

of

> science

> > > developed by the Asura Tantric culture of Harappa (which covered

> many other

> > > parts of the world such as Iran, Assyria etc as well) and spread

> throughout

> > > India mostly through the Jain Siddhas. That was why it was

still Agama

> > > sastra (Tantric knowledge branch) even at the period of Mihira

> (i.e. AD

> > > 550). Note that even Aryabhata was a Jain. Since Sage Garga - a

> Jain sage -

> > > who wrote Garga Hora lived around BC 1400, and was a

contemporary

> of Skanda

> > > (the originator of Nirayana astrological knowledge who wrote

> Skanda Hora),

> > > it turns out that the Jain tradition is as old as Vedic

tradition.

> The Saiva

> > > Agama tradition existed prior to that even in the Harappan

period.

> So the

> > > flow of this eternal knowledge branch known as Nirayana

Astrology

> in ancient

> > > India would be from Saiva Agama tradition to Jain Tradition to

> South India

> > > through the sea shore (Gujarat and Orissa). And then by the

period

> of Mihira

> > > getting accepted by the whole of India - mixing both Agamic

Nirayana

> > > Zodiacal astrology and Vedic Tropical Astrology. Mutual

> interactions and

> > > give and take must have happened in between as well - but it is

> fair to say

> > > that till the period of Mihira (AD 550), Nirayana zodiacal

> Astrology and

> > > Sayana Tropical astrology were treated separately in India - the

> first

> > > considered as Agamic and the second as Vedic (Nigamic). The

> non-vedic nature

> > > of astrology is also evident from the fact that, astrology texts

> don't even

> > > mention the name of Lagatha or his student Suchi, who wrote the

text

> > > `Vedanga Jyotisha' in BC1400, a text dealing with astronomy and

> calendar

> > > system known to and followed by vedic tradition. Thus possibly

all

> the 18

> > > sages mentioned by astrological classics were outside vedic

> tradition - no

> > > wonder the hindu brahmin fanatics prior to the period of Mihira

> never tried

> > > to save those astrological texts - from extinction. The other

> stalwart of

> > > the same era, Aryabhata (AD 522) was a follower of Jain

religion.

> It should

> > > be said that - together they saved this knowledge of Nirayana

> astrology from

> > > complete extinction.

> > >

> > > We have drifted away a bit during this discussion, from our

major

> subject

> > > that is `Lagna lord in various house' but still I think it is

> worth it. Now

> > > let us go back and continue our study -

> > >

> > > The 9th house signifies things such as - luck, guru, vishnu,

purana,

> > > story telling, father, meditation, kind donations, righteous

> deeds, devotion

> > > etc. Thus the placement of lagna lord in 9th generates special

> importance to

> > > the derivations related to the same.

> > >

> > > - by Sreenadh (sreesog@)

> > >

> > > =========================================

> > > Love,

> > > Sreenadh

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Namaste Sreenadh ji

 

Maybe I am Still missing something - But

how does Lagna (Native) end up marrying Mother’s Uncle (9th Hse)?

Surely Native’s Partner is shown by 7th Hse? I can understand

Younger Uncle’s (2nd Hse) Son (7th Hse) per your explanation

for Kerala tradition But Not TamilNadu / Jains?

 

Can you shed some more light re:Lagna and 9th Hse as regarding marriage?

 

Best wishes ……

 

Jai Sita Ram

 

Ram

 

 

 

 

 

On Behalf Of Sreenadh

05 October 2007 06:18

 

Subject:

Re: Lagna lord in 9th House

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Ram ji,

==>

> Can you explain your " logic " again re: " 9th is - 4th

(Mother's) 7th

(Mother's) Brother (9th)

<==

Q: Why 9th can signify father?

Answer:

* 4th is Mother

* 7th is 4th from 4th, i.e. Mother's Mother, i.e. Grad-mother of the

native.

* 9th is 3rd from 7th, i.e. Brother of Grad-mother of the native.

(Mother's Uncle)

 

Q: Why brother of Grad-Mother of the native should be considered

Father of the Native?

 

A: Because the native's Mother married her Uncle, i.e. Her Mother's

Brother!

This is the traditional system of marriage in Tamilnadu. Thus

custom must have been followed by many sect in including Jains in

ancient India.

 

Note that, the girl marrying her Uncle (mother's brother) was

followed in Tamilnadu & the girl marrying her Uncle's son was

followed in Kerala. [both these systems of 'marriage from blood

relation' should be contempted - that is another issue - which is not

relevant here]. The system of 'the girl marrying her maternal Uncle'

must have been followed by Jains as well. It is because of that Garga

(a Jain sage) mentioned the same in his text.

 

Hope the logic and derivation is clear.

Love,

Sreenadh

 

,

" Ram Jaswal "

<rkjaswal wrote:

>

> Namaste Sreenadh

>

> Can you explain your " logic " again re: " 9th is - 4th

(Mother's) 7th

> (Mother's) Brother (9th) " ? Surely Younger Brother to Mother would

be 6th

> House (ie 3rd from 4th) whilst Elder Brother would be 2nd house

(11th from

> 4th)? Am I missing something?

> I can see 9th House is 6th from 4th and hence can say Mothers Uncle

and Not

> Mothers Brother? Is this what you meant?

>

> Regards ....

>

> Jai Sita Ram

>

> Ram

>

> _____

>

>

>

On Behalf Of

Sreenadh

> 02 October 2007 12:31

>

> Re: Lagna lord in 9th House

>

> Dear Haridas ji,

> 5th from what?!!

>

> 5th from 4th is - 8th

> 5th from 9th is - Lagna

> 5th from 5th is - 9th

>

> What do you mean? Please clarify.

>

> Note: 9th is - 4th (Mother's) 7th (Mother's) Brother (9th). The

> custom of 'the girl marrying Mother's brother' is present among

people

> of Tamilnadu and was present possibly among Jains as well. That is

why

> 9th signify Father as per the jain sage - Garga.

>

> Love,

> Sreenadh

>

> ancient_indian_ <%

40>

> astrology ,

" Haridas Udupa "

> <ahudupa@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Shri Sreenadh,

> > 10th house, being 7th to 4th indicates mother's husband.

> However, 9th

> > house has to be father since 5th from it, is self (the natvie, the

> child),

> > the Lagna. So, 10th house may be used to indicate stepfather. Does

> it sound

> > logical?

> > Regards,

> > udupa

> >

> > On 10/2/07, Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear All,

> > > Here is the info to start a discussion on 'Lagna lord in 9th

> house'

> > > . Let us have a worthy discussion on the same.

> > > =========================================

> > >

> > > *

> > > Lagna lord in 9th House

> > > --

> > > *

> > >

> > > If lagna lord is in 9th, the native would be lucky and dear to

> people. He

> > > will be a devotee of God Vishnu. He would an efficient

individual,

> efficient

> > > especially in speech and oratory. With wife, children and good

> amount of

> > > wealth (essentials for a good worldly life) he will lead a good

> life. He

> > > will have many respectable relatives. He will do many good deeds

> and would

> > > be a righteous individual. It could be said that he is an

> individual with

> > > `Satwa Guna', meaning he will have the ability to keep the same

> balanced

> > > state of mind both in happiness and sadness. Bestowed with many

good

> > > qualities, he will excel as a popular and radiant individual.

> [Note that

> > > father is NOT mentioned in any of the above results]

> > >

> > > *If lagna lord is in 9th, the native would be lucky and dear to

> people. He

> > > will be a devotee of God Vishnu. He would an efficient

individual,

> efficient

> > > especially in speech and oratory. With wife, children and good

> amount of

> > > wealth (essentials for a good worldly life) he will lead a good

life.*

> > >

> > > *- Parasara Hora*

> > >

> > > Since 9th is the house signifying luck it is natural to say

that the

> > > native would be lucky, and a devotee of god. But why God Vishnu?

> There is

> > > specific reason for this derivation. The trines signify the

> trinity. Lagna

> > > signifies Brahma; 9th Vishnu; 5th Siva. This derivation

primarily

> comes from

> > > the zodiac itself. In the Zodiac Aries being the first sign

signifies

> > > creation and thus Brahma; 5th being Leo, the house of Sun,

> signifies Siva,

> > > 9th being the Sagittarius, the house of Jupiter, signifies

Vishnu.

> There is

> > > a saying `Jeevastu Narayana', meaning `Jupiter signifies

Narayana (God

> > > Vishnu floating in the primordial ocean which caused the

creation

> of the

> > > universe). Thus 9th signifies god Vishnu and that is why it is

> derived that

> > > lagna lord in 9th will make the native a devotee of God Vishnu.

> Thus we get

> > > a cute rule -

> > >

> > > *Rule 8: The significance of all the 12 houses are related to

the

> 12 signs

> > > from Aries onwards as well. Aries could signify creation, so as

lagna;

> > > Taurus could signify food so as 2nd and so on. Much significance

> that gets

> > > associated to the houses is derived in this way. This

> understanding can be

> > > used while deriving results using `House Base' system as well. *

> > >

> > > Parasara tells us that if lagna lord is in 9th he would be an

> efficient

> > > individual - why? Note that 9th is a house that is in the

visible

> part of

> > > zodiac. (1 to 7 = Invisible or hidden half; 7 to 12 = visible or

> popular

> > > half). Thus the qualities of the native would be well visible to

> the public;

> > > he is lucky, spiritual, and righteous. All these help him in

being an

> > > efficient and successful individual. But this logic does not

help

> us in

> > > clarifying the derivation - he would be an efficient individual,

> efficient

> > > especially in speech and oratory. What speech has to do with

9th?

> First it

> > > may seem that - no, there is no relation. But note that

Parasara is

> > > simply extending the previous rule stated. 9th Sign of zodiac is

> Sagittarius

> > > owned by Jupiter, and all the qualities such as Speech,

efficiency in

> > > speech, interest in telling spiritual and puranic stories, good

> knowledge

> > > are all related to Jupiter itself. Thus it is quite natural to

> derive the

> > > result `the native would be efficient especially in speech and

> oratory'.

> > > This ability of the native will persist even to his old age, as

> indicated by

> > > the fact that 9th is 8th (longevity) from 2nd house (speech).

> Lagna lord in

> > > 9th gives beneficial results to 9th, causing longevity of

speech,

> or in

> > > other words, the ability to amaze people with wonderful

knowledge

> bits and

> > > excellent speaking abilities even in old age. Why it is said

that

> he would

> > > live a good life with wife, children and wealth? Note that these

> are the

> > > prime conditions for being a lucky person in worldly life. As a

> balanced,

> > > efficient, lucky individual he is sure to have the prime

> necessities for

> > > worldly happiness - which happens to be `wife, children and

> wealth'. Also

> > > note that 9th is 5th from 5th, and in essence LL in 9th bestows

> good results

> > > for 5th indicating - beneficial results for children (5th

house).

> Similarly

> > > 9th is 3rd, an upachaya (growth and well being) house from 7th.

> Thus LL in

> > > 9th gives beneficial results to 9th, indicating growth and

> well-being of 7th

> > > (wife) as well. LL in 9th aspects 3rd house, which is 2nd from

2nd

> (a rule

> > > discussed earlier) and thus provides good results for 2nd house

as

> well,

> > > providing good wealth. Thus in short, it turns out that -

`wealth,

> wife and

> > > children' is a well thought-out derivation, supported by logic

in

> many ways.

> > >

> > > *If lagna lord is in 9th, the native will have many respectable

> relatives.

> > > He will do many good deeds (He would a righteous individual);

keep

> the same

> > > balanced state of mind both in happiness and sadness (He is an

> individual

> > > with `Satwa Guna') ; will have many good qualities. He will

excel as a

> > > popular and radiant individual.*

> > >

> > > *- Meenaraja Hora*

> > >

> > > Why many respectable relatives - who are they? If Meenaraja

wanted to

> > > indicate the native will have a good father, it would have been

> easy to

> > > understand, since 9th signifies father. But he says - `many

> respectable

> > > relatives'. Of course respectability is a quality of 9th house

and

> therefore

> > > no doubt on that. A good respectable father is also a

possibility.

> What

> > > about other relatives - intended? From the discussion of 3rd

house, we

> > > already know that -

> > >

> > > In male horoscope, 9th house can indicate - wife's sister,

> brother's wife,

> > > sister's husband and wife's brother.

> > >

> > > In female horoscope, 9th house can indicate - husband's brother,

> sister's

> > > husband, brother's wife, husband's sister.

> > >

> > > Son's son and daughter, Daughter's son and daughter, Mother's

> brother (the

> > > traditional husband as per some sects) are also indicated by

9th house

> > > itself.

> > >

> > > It is due to all these reasons that Meenaraja resorted to the

> statement,

> > > `LL in 9th (bestows good results for 9th and therefore) indicate

> having many

> > > respectable relatives to the native'.

> > >

> > > Meenaraja tells us that `the native will keep his equally

balanced

> state

> > > of mind in happiness and sadness' - why? It is because he is a

> spiritual

> > > individual. Spiritual awareness helps the native to achieve the

> same without

> > > much effort. In a calm mind the divine reflects and the

beneficial

> results

> > > follow. The remaining derivations of Meenaraja are also easy to

> understand

> > > in this context.

> > >

> > > Because we are discussing 9th house, there is unique point to

> note. Why

> > > 9th house signify father? If 4th is mother (as indicated by the

> ownership of

> > > Moon in Cancer, 4th sign from Aries), then the natural thing was

> to say that

> > > 10th signify father, since the same is 7th from 4th as well. But

> all the

> > > medieval texts, tell us that - father is signified by 9th house.

> Why? Note

> > > that 9th indicate `Mother's mother's brother - the traditional

> husband as

> > > per customs followed by several sects'. The Vedic tradition

NEVER

> supported

> > > such a system - then how come astrological texts attribute the

> significance

> > > of father to 9th house instead of 10th? It would be interesting

to

> note the

> > > following points in this context.

> > >

> > > * Only books of Jain (Garga hora etc) and South Indian tradition

> attribute

> > > 9th house to father. [i am yet to see any other ancient Rishi

hora

> sloka

> > > (other than Garga Hora sloka) which attribute the significance

of

> `father'

> > > to 9th house. Of course astrology did not originate in South

India

> but in

> > > the banks of `Saraswati

River'. It is the ancient

Jain siddhas

who

> spread it

> > > through out India,

especially in south India]

> > >

> > > * All ancient text agree on the fact that 9th house signifies

Guru.

> > >

> > > * While discussing 4th house (and in many other places) Parasara

> indicated

> > > that father is signified by 10th house rather than 9th.

> > >

> > > * In many traditions (including non-vedic and vedic; Agama and

Nigama)

> > > father was the first Guru of the native, especially related to

> Upanayana

> > > etc. Many texts say that - Guru IS father, equating both of

them,

> possibly

> > > because Upanayana (providing sacred thread) is considered as the

> second

> > > birth of the native.

> > >

> > > I think -

> > >

> > > 1) Emphasis with Jain and South indian traditions attribute the

> > > significance of father to 9th indicate that the tradition of

marrying

> > > `mother's brother' was very common among both of them.

> > >

> > > 2) This points to the agama (non-vedic) origin of astrology as

> well. Even

> > > Mihira tells us that `Astrology is an Agama sastra' emphasizing

its

> > > non-vedic nature. But Mihira was so authentic and popular, that

> from the

> > > period of Mihira onwards considering 9th as father got accepted

by

> almost

> > > all the followers of astrology (south indian and north indian;

> non-vedic and

> > > vedic; Jain and Hindu) alike. Note that currently there is

> almost

> > > no text available (except BPHS) that tells us that - 10th house

> signifies

> > > father. It is cute fact to note.

> > >

> > > 3) Texts like Parasara hora (BC 1400) could be an effort to mix

> the Agama

> > > system of astrology (some streams of which like the Jains,

> followed customs

> > > like marrying `mother's brother') with the other streams (which

never

> > > followed such a custom). This could be a controversial

statement.

> But if it

> > > is so, this also points to the fact why texts like BPHS are

popular in

> > > north, while south instead depends on older Rishi horas (like

> Skanda hora,

> > > Garga hora etc) and the text of Mihira who accepts that

astrology

> is an

> > > Agama sastra (Knowledge of Tantric origin).

> > >

> > > 4) It is also possible that the above statement is wrong. It is

> possible

> > > that except Jains (Garga Hora) no other Rishi horas followed the

> system of

> > > ascribing the significance of father to 9th house (we need to

> study the

> > > available quotes). It is possible that any such indications we

may

> find in

> > > BPHS are later interpolations. If the above statements are true

we

> would

> > > have to resort to the statement " No Rishi Hora except Garga

Hora

> attributes

> > > the significance of father to 9th house. As per them father is

> signified by

> > > 10th house " . This is a subject with good scope for astrological

> research.

> > > Research and come out with ancient quotes that support your

arguments.

> > >

> > > 5) Essentially thus the fact springs up that the Jain

contribution

> to the

> > > development of astrology in India - is far more than what we

currently

> > > ascribe them to. Similarly the contribution of Vedic tradition

and

> > > literature to the development of Nirayana astrology is far less

> than what we

> > > ascribe them to. Possibly ancient indian astrology is a branch

of

> science

> > > developed by the Asura Tantric culture of Harappa

(which covered

> many other

> > > parts of the world such as Iran, Assyria etc as well) and

spread

> throughout

> > > India

mostly through the Jain Siddhas. That was why it was

still Agama

> > > sastra (Tantric knowledge branch) even at the period of Mihira

> (i.e. AD

> > > 550). Note that even Aryabhata was a Jain. Since Sage Garga - a

> Jain sage -

> > > who wrote Garga Hora lived around BC 1400, and was a

contemporary

> of Skanda

> > > (the originator of Nirayana astrological knowledge who wrote

> Skanda Hora),

> > > it turns out that the Jain tradition is as old as Vedic

tradition.

> The Saiva

> > > Agama tradition existed prior to that even in the Harappan

period.

> So the

> > > flow of this eternal knowledge branch known as Nirayana

Astrology

> in ancient

> > > India

would be from Saiva Agama tradition to Jain Tradition to

> South India

> > > through the sea shore (Gujarat

and Orissa). And then by the

period

> of Mihira

> > > getting accepted by the whole of India - mixing both Agamic

Nirayana

> > > Zodiacal astrology and Vedic Tropical Astrology. Mutual

> interactions and

> > > give and take must have happened in between as well - but it is

> fair to say

> > > that till the period of Mihira (AD 550), Nirayana zodiacal

> Astrology and

> > > Sayana Tropical astrology were treated separately in India - the

> first

> > > considered as Agamic and the second as Vedic (Nigamic). The

> non-vedic nature

> > > of astrology is also evident from the fact that, astrology texts

> don't even

> > > mention the name of Lagatha or his student Suchi, who wrote the

text

> > > `Vedanga Jyotisha' in BC1400, a text dealing with astronomy and

> calendar

> > > system known to and followed by vedic tradition. Thus possibly

all

> the 18

> > > sages mentioned by astrological classics were outside vedic

> tradition - no

> > > wonder the hindu brahmin fanatics prior to the period of Mihira

> never tried

> > > to save those astrological texts - from extinction. The other

> stalwart of

> > > the same era, Aryabhata (AD 522) was a follower of Jain

religion.

> It should

> > > be said that - together they saved this knowledge of Nirayana

> astrology from

> > > complete extinction.

> > >

> > > We have drifted away a bit during this discussion, from our

major

> subject

> > > that is `Lagna lord in various house' but still I think it is

> worth it. Now

> > > let us go back and continue our study -

> > >

> > > The 9th house signifies things such as - luck, guru, vishnu,

purana,

> > > story telling, father, meditation, kind donations, righteous

> deeds, devotion

> > > etc. Thus the placement of lagna lord in 9th generates special

> importance to

> > > the derivations related to the same.

> > >

> > > - by Sreenadh (sreesog@)

> > >

> > > =========================================

> > > Love,

> > > Sreenadh

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hare ramakrishna,

dear jaiswal ji ,

6th house in general shows the uncles and cousins .

so 6th from 4th is 9th ,so in societies were such marriage happening may be one of the reasons rishis take as 9th house for father.

We are trying to see the principles according to horas and trying to see why it has taken so ,trying to think in par with rishis mind .We dont claim that we know all secrets behind the principles .

May be some other reasons also.

Hope its clear now .

regrds sunil nair.

om shreem mahalaxmai namah.

 

 

, "Ram Jaswal" <rkjaswal wrote:>> Namaste Sreenadh ji> > Maybe I am Still missing something - But how does Lagna (Native) end up> marrying Mother's Uncle (9th Hse)? Surely Native's Partner is shown by 7th> Hse? I can understand Younger Uncle's (2nd Hse) Son (7th Hse) per your> explanation for Kerala tradition But Not TamilNadu / Jains? > > Can you shed some more light re:Lagna and 9th Hse as regarding marriage?> > Best wishes ..> > Jai Sita Ram> > Ram> > _____ > > > On Behalf Of Sreenadh> 05 October 2007 06:18> > Re: Lagna lord in 9th House> > Dear Ram ji,> ==>> > Can you explain your "logic" again re:" 9th is - 4th (Mother's) 7th > (Mother's) Brother (9th)> <==> Q: Why 9th can signify father?> Answer: > * 4th is Mother > * 7th is 4th from 4th, i.e. Mother's Mother, i.e. Grad-mother of the > native.> * 9th is 3rd from 7th, i.e. Brother of Grad-mother of the native. > (Mother's Uncle)> > Q: Why brother of Grad-Mother of the native should be considered > Father of the Native? > > A: Because the native's Mother married her Uncle, i.e. Her Mother's > Brother! > This is the traditional system of marriage in Tamilnadu. Thus > custom must have been followed by many sect in including Jains in > ancient India.> > Note that, the girl marrying her Uncle (mother's brother) was > followed in Tamilnadu & the girl marrying her Uncle's son was > followed in Kerala. [both these systems of 'marriage from blood > relation' should be contempted - that is another issue - which is not > relevant here]. The system of 'the girl marrying her maternal Uncle' > must have been followed by Jains as well. It is because of that Garga > (a Jain sage) mentioned the same in his text.> > Hope the logic and derivation is clear.> Love,> Sreenadh > > ancient_indian_ <%40>> astrology , "Ram Jaswal" > rkjaswal@ wrote:> >> > Namaste Sreenadh> > > > Can you explain your "logic" again re:" 9th is - 4th (Mother's) 7th> > (Mother's) Brother (9th)"? Surely Younger Brother to Mother would > be 6th> > House (ie 3rd from 4th) whilst Elder Brother would be 2nd house > (11th from> > 4th)? Am I missing something?> > I can see 9th House is 6th from 4th and hence can say Mothers Uncle > and Not> > Mothers Brother? Is this what you meant?> > > > Regards ....> > > > Jai Sita Ram> > > > Ram> > > > _____ > > > > ancient_indian_ <%40>> astrology > > [ancient_indian_> <%40>> astrology ] On Behalf Of > Sreenadh> > 02 October 2007 12:31> > ancient_indian_ <%40>> astrology > > Re: Lagna lord in 9th House> > > > Dear Haridas ji,> > 5th from what?!!> > > > 5th from 4th is - 8th> > 5th from 9th is - Lagna> > 5th from 5th is - 9th > > > > What do you mean? Please clarify.> > > > Note: 9th is - 4th (Mother's) 7th (Mother's) Brother (9th). The> > custom of 'the girl marrying Mother's brother' is present among > people> > of Tamilnadu and was present possibly among Jains as well. That is > why> > 9th signify Father as per the jain sage - Garga. > > > > Love,> > Sreenadh> > > > ancient_indian_ <%> 40>> > astrology@grou <astrology%40> ps.com, "Haridas> Udupa"> > <ahudupa@> wrote:> > >> > > Dear Shri Sreenadh,> > > 10th house, being 7th to 4th indicates mother's husband.> > However, 9th> > > house has to be father since 5th from it, is self (the natvie, the> > child),> > > the Lagna. So, 10th house may be used to indicate stepfather. Does> > it sound> > > logical?> > > Regards,> > > udupa> > > > > > On 10/2/07, Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote:> > > >> > > > Dear All,> > > > Here is the info to start a discussion on 'Lagna lord in 9th> > house'> > > > . Let us have a worthy discussion on the same.> > > > =========================================> > > >> > > > *> > > > Lagna lord in 9th House> > > > --> > > > *> > > >> > > > If lagna lord is in 9th, the native would be lucky and dear to> > people. He> > > > will be a devotee of God Vishnu. He would an efficient > individual,> > efficient> > > > especially in speech and oratory. With wife, children and good> > amount of> > > > wealth (essentials for a good worldly life) he will lead a good> > life. He> > > > will have many respectable relatives. He will do many good deeds> > and would> > > > be a righteous individual. It could be said that he is an> > individual with> > > > `Satwa Guna', meaning he will have the ability to keep the same> > balanced> > > > state of mind both in happiness and sadness. Bestowed with many > good> > > > qualities, he will excel as a popular and radiant individual.> > [Note that> > > > father is NOT mentioned in any of the above results]> > > >> > > > *If lagna lord is in 9th, the native would be lucky and dear to> > people. He> > > > will be a devotee of God Vishnu. He would an efficient > individual,> > efficient> > > > especially in speech and oratory. With wife, children and good> > amount of> > > > wealth (essentials for a good worldly life) he will lead a good > life.*> > > >> > > > *- Parasara Hora*> > > >> > > > Since 9th is the house signifying luck it is natural to say > that the> > > > native would be lucky, and a devotee of god. But why God Vishnu?> > There is> > > > specific reason for this derivation. The trines signify the> > trinity. Lagna> > > > signifies Brahma; 9th Vishnu; 5th Siva. This derivation > primarily> > comes from> > > > the zodiac itself. In the Zodiac Aries being the first sign > signifies> > > > creation and thus Brahma; 5th being Leo, the house of Sun,> > signifies Siva,> > > > 9th being the Sagittarius, the house of Jupiter, signifies > Vishnu.> > There is> > > > a saying `Jeevastu Narayana', meaning `Jupiter signifies > Narayana (God> > > > Vishnu floating in the primordial ocean which caused the > creation> > of the> > > > universe). Thus 9th signifies god Vishnu and that is why it is> > derived that> > > > lagna lord in 9th will make the native a devotee of God Vishnu.> > Thus we get> > > > a cute rule -> > > >> > > > *Rule 8: The significance of all the 12 houses are related to > the> > 12 signs> > > > from Aries onwards as well. Aries could signify creation, so as > lagna;> > > > Taurus could signify food so as 2nd and so on. Much significance> > that gets> > > > associated to the houses is derived in this way. This> > understanding can be> > > > used while deriving results using `House Base' system as well. *> > > >> > > > Parasara tells us that if lagna lord is in 9th he would be an> > efficient> > > > individual - why? Note that 9th is a house that is in the > visible> > part of> > > > zodiac. (1 to 7 = Invisible or hidden half; 7 to 12 = visible or> > popular> > > > half). Thus the qualities of the native would be well visible to> > the public;> > > > he is lucky, spiritual, and righteous. All these help him in > being an> > > > efficient and successful individual. But this logic does not > help> > us in> > > > clarifying the derivation - he would be an efficient individual,> > efficient> > > > especially in speech and oratory. What speech has to do with > 9th?> > First it> > > > may seem that - no, there is no relation. But note that > Parasara is> > > > simply extending the previous rule stated. 9th Sign of zodiac is> > Sagittarius> > > > owned by Jupiter, and all the qualities such as Speech, > efficiency in> > > > speech, interest in telling spiritual and puranic stories, good> > knowledge> > > > are all related to Jupiter itself. Thus it is quite natural to> > derive the> > > > result `the native would be efficient especially in speech and> > oratory'.> > > > This ability of the native will persist even to his old age, as> > indicated by> > > > the fact that 9th is 8th (longevity) from 2nd house (speech).> > Lagna lord in> > > > 9th gives beneficial results to 9th, causing longevity of > speech,> > or in> > > > other words, the ability to amaze people with wonderful > knowledge> > bits and> > > > excellent speaking abilities even in old age. Why it is said > that> > he would> > > > live a good life with wife, children and wealth? Note that these> > are the> > > > prime conditions for being a lucky person in worldly life. As a> > balanced,> > > > efficient, lucky individual he is sure to have the prime> > necessities for> > > > worldly happiness - which happens to be `wife, children and> > wealth'. Also> > > > note that 9th is 5th from 5th, and in essence LL in 9th bestows> > good results> > > > for 5th indicating - beneficial results for children (5th > house).> > Similarly> > > > 9th is 3rd, an upachaya (growth and well being) house from 7th.> > Thus LL in> > > > 9th gives beneficial results to 9th, indicating growth and> > well-being of 7th> > > > (wife) as well. LL in 9th aspects 3rd house, which is 2nd from > 2nd> > (a rule> > > > discussed earlier) and thus provides good results for 2nd house > as> > well,> > > > providing good wealth. Thus in short, it turns out that - > `wealth,> > wife and> > > > children' is a well thought-out derivation, supported by logic > in> > many ways.> > > >> > > > *If lagna lord is in 9th, the native will have many respectable> > relatives.> > > > He will do many good deeds (He would a righteous individual); > keep> > the same> > > > balanced state of mind both in happiness and sadness (He is an> > individual> > > > with `Satwa Guna') ; will have many good qualities. He will > excel as a> > > > popular and radiant individual.*> > > >> > > > *- Meenaraja Hora*> > > >> > > > Why many respectable relatives - who are they? If Meenaraja > wanted to> > > > indicate the native will have a good father, it would have been> > easy to> > > > understand, since 9th signifies father. But he says - `many> > respectable> > > > relatives'. Of course respectability is a quality of 9th house > and> > therefore> > > > no doubt on that. A good respectable father is also a > possibility.> > What> > > > about other relatives - intended? From the discussion of 3rd > house, we> > > > already know that -> > > >> > > > In male horoscope, 9th house can indicate - wife's sister,> > brother's wife,> > > > sister's husband and wife's brother.> > > >> > > > In female horoscope, 9th house can indicate - husband's brother,> > sister's> > > > husband, brother's wife, husband's sister.> > > >> > > > Son's son and daughter, Daughter's son and daughter, Mother's> > brother (the> > > > traditional husband as per some sects) are also indicated by > 9th house> > > > itself.> > > >> > > > It is due to all these reasons that Meenaraja resorted to the> > statement,> > > > `LL in 9th (bestows good results for 9th and therefore) indicate> > having many> > > > respectable relatives to the native'.> > > >> > > > Meenaraja tells us that `the native will keep his equally > balanced> > state> > > > of mind in happiness and sadness' - why? It is because he is a> > spiritual> > > > individual. Spiritual awareness helps the native to achieve the> > same without> > > > much effort. In a calm mind the divine reflects and the > beneficial> > results> > > > follow. The remaining derivations of Meenaraja are also easy to> > understand> > > > in this context.> > > >> > > > Because we are discussing 9th house, there is unique point to> > note. Why> > > > 9th house signify father? If 4th is mother (as indicated by the> > ownership of> > > > Moon in Cancer, 4th sign from Aries), then the natural thing was> > to say that> > > > 10th signify father, since the same is 7th from 4th as well. But> > all the> > > > medieval texts, tell us that - father is signified by 9th house.> > Why? Note> > > > that 9th indicate `Mother's mother's brother - the traditional> > husband as> > > > per customs followed by several sects'. The Vedic tradition > NEVER> > supported> > > > such a system - then how come astrological texts attribute the> > significance> > > > of father to 9th house instead of 10th? It would be interesting > to> > note the> > > > following points in this context.> > > >> > > > * Only books of Jain (Garga hora etc) and South Indian tradition> > attribute> > > > 9th house to father. [i am yet to see any other ancient Rishi > hora> > sloka> > > > (other than Garga Hora sloka) which attribute the significance > of> > `father'> > > > to 9th house. Of course astrology did not originate in South > India> > but in> > > > the banks of `Saraswati River'. It is the ancient Jain siddhas > who> > spread it> > > > through out India, especially in south India]> > > >> > > > * All ancient text agree on the fact that 9th house signifies > Guru.> > > >> > > > * While discussing 4th house (and in many other places) Parasara> > indicated> > > > that father is signified by 10th house rather than 9th.> > > >> > > > * In many traditions (including non-vedic and vedic; Agama and > Nigama)> > > > father was the first Guru of the native, especially related to> > Upanayana> > > > etc. Many texts say that - Guru IS father, equating both of > them,> > possibly> > > > because Upanayana (providing sacred thread) is considered as the> > second> > > > birth of the native.> > > >> > > > I think -> > > >> > > > 1) Emphasis with Jain and South indian traditions attribute the> > > > significance of father to 9th indicate that the tradition of > marrying> > > > `mother's brother' was very common among both of them.> > > >> > > > 2) This points to the agama (non-vedic) origin of astrology as> > well. Even> > > > Mihira tells us that `Astrology is an Agama sastra' emphasizing > its> > > > non-vedic nature. But Mihira was so authentic and popular, that> > from the> > > > period of Mihira onwards considering 9th as father got accepted > by> > almost> > > > all the followers of astrology (south indian and north indian;> > non-vedic and> > > > vedic; Jain and Hindu) alike. Note that currently there is> > almost> > > > no text available (except BPHS) that tells us that - 10th house> > signifies> > > > father. It is cute fact to note.> > > >> > > > 3) Texts like Parasara hora (BC 1400) could be an effort to mix> > the Agama> > > > system of astrology (some streams of which like the Jains,> > followed customs> > > > like marrying `mother's brother') with the other streams (which > never> > > > followed such a custom). This could be a controversial > statement.> > But if it> > > > is so, this also points to the fact why texts like BPHS are > popular in> > > > north, while south instead depends on older Rishi horas (like> > Skanda hora,> > > > Garga hora etc) and the text of Mihira who accepts that > astrology> > is an> > > > Agama sastra (Knowledge of Tantric origin).> > > >> > > > 4) It is also possible that the above statement is wrong. It is> > possible> > > > that except Jains (Garga Hora) no other Rishi horas followed the> > system of> > > > ascribing the significance of father to 9th house (we need to> > study the> > > > available quotes). It is possible that any such indications we > may> > find in> > > > BPHS are later interpolations. If the above statements are true > we> > would> > > > have to resort to the statement "No Rishi Hora except Garga Hora> > attributes> > > > the significance of father to 9th house. As per them father is> > signified by> > > > 10th house". This is a subject with good scope for astrological> > research.> > > > Research and come out with ancient quotes that support your > arguments.> > > >> > > > 5) Essentially thus the fact springs up that the Jain > contribution> > to the> > > > development of astrology in India - is far more than what we > currently> > > > ascribe them to. Similarly the contribution of Vedic tradition > and> > > > literature to the development of Nirayana astrology is far less> > than what we> > > > ascribe them to. Possibly ancient indian astrology is a branch > of> > science> > > > developed by the Asura Tantric culture of Harappa (which covered> > many other> > > > parts of the world such as Iran, Assyria etc as well) and spread> > throughout> > > > India mostly through the Jain Siddhas. That was why it was > still Agama> > > > sastra (Tantric knowledge branch) even at the period of Mihira> > (i.e. AD> > > > 550). Note that even Aryabhata was a Jain. Since Sage Garga - a> > Jain sage -> > > > who wrote Garga Hora lived around BC 1400, and was a > contemporary> > of Skanda> > > > (the originator of Nirayana astrological knowledge who wrote> > Skanda Hora),> > > > it turns out that the Jain tradition is as old as Vedic > tradition.> > The Saiva> > > > Agama tradition existed prior to that even in the Harappan > period.> > So the> > > > flow of this eternal knowledge branch known as Nirayana > Astrology> > in ancient> > > > India would be from Saiva Agama tradition to Jain Tradition to> > South India> > > > through the sea shore (Gujarat and Orissa). And then by the > period> > of Mihira> > > > getting accepted by the whole of India - mixing both Agamic > Nirayana> > > > Zodiacal astrology and Vedic Tropical Astrology. Mutual> > interactions and> > > > give and take must have happened in between as well - but it is> > fair to say> > > > that till the period of Mihira (AD 550), Nirayana zodiacal> > Astrology and> > > > Sayana Tropical astrology were treated separately in India - the> > first> > > > considered as Agamic and the second as Vedic (Nigamic). The> > non-vedic nature> > > > of astrology is also evident from the fact that, astrology texts> > don't even> > > > mention the name of Lagatha or his student Suchi, who wrote the > text> > > > `Vedanga Jyotisha' in BC1400, a text dealing with astronomy and> > calendar> > > > system known to and followed by vedic tradition. Thus possibly > all> > the 18> > > > sages mentioned by astrological classics were outside vedic> > tradition - no> > > > wonder the hindu brahmin fanatics prior to the period of Mihira> > never tried> > > > to save those astrological texts - from extinction. The other> > stalwart of> > > > the same era, Aryabhata (AD 522) was a follower of Jain > religion.> > It should> > > > be said that - together they saved this knowledge of Nirayana> > astrology from> > > > complete extinction.> > > >> > > > We have drifted away a bit during this discussion, from our > major> > subject> > > > that is `Lagna lord in various house' but still I think it is> > worth it. Now> > > > let us go back and continue our study -> > > >> > > > The 9th house signifies things such as - luck, guru, vishnu, > purana,> > > > story telling, father, meditation, kind donations, righteous> > deeds, devotion> > > > etc. Thus the placement of lagna lord in 9th generates special> > importance to> > > > the derivations related to the same.> > > >> > > > - by Sreenadh (sreesog@)> > > >> > > > =========================================> > > > Love,> > > > Sreenadh> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

Dear Fellow astrologers,I have been studying nadi for some time after studying parasar for a lng time. Ive noticed that the formulas for death of father used in Dev kerelam all take into account the 9th house for father and they have come out to be very accurate ni a lot of cases including mine. I always thought abt it as to why in north 10th is father n in south 9th father.If we take 5th as progeny then logically 9th should be father as 5th from 9th is the lagn which is the deh or self. Which answers one question but then creates another problem ab mother. then shouldnt mother be 3rd house if mother is still 4th house then by that logic wife should be 8th house. but then we all consider 8th house for marital bliss and even secret affairs which will be with opposite sex/partner. and 8th being 4th from 5th .. sukh of progeny.. will come from wife.. so it goes there too. Perhaps we should stick with the navamsh charts for accurate

readings,.regardsDhruvwww.theastro.comsunil nair <astro_tellerkerala wrote: Hare ramakrishna, dear jaiswal ji , 6th house in general shows the uncles and cousins . so 6th from 4th is 9th ,so in societies were such marriage happening may be one of the reasons

rishis take as 9th house for father. We are trying to see the principles according to horas and trying to see why it has taken so ,trying to think in par with rishis mind .We dont claim that we know all secrets behind the principles . May be some other reasons also. Hope its clear now . regrds sunil nair. om shreem mahalaxmai namah. , "Ram Jaswal" <rkjaswal wrote:>> Namaste Sreenadh ji> > Maybe I am Still missing something - But how does Lagna (Native) end up> marrying Mother's Uncle (9th Hse)?

Surely Native's Partner is shown by 7th> Hse? I can understand Younger Uncle's (2nd Hse) Son (7th Hse) per your> explanation for Kerala tradition But Not TamilNadu / Jains? > > Can you shed some more light re:Lagna and 9th Hse as regarding marriage?> > Best wishes ..> > Jai Sita Ram> > Ram> > _____ > > > On Behalf Of Sreenadh> 05 October 2007 06:18> > Re: Lagna lord in 9th House> > Dear Ram ji,> ==>> > Can you explain your "logic" again re:" 9th is - 4th (Mother's) 7th > (Mother's) Brother (9th)> <==> Q: Why 9th can signify father?> Answer: > * 4th is

Mother > * 7th is 4th from 4th, i.e. Mother's Mother, i.e. Grad-mother of the > native.> * 9th is 3rd from 7th, i.e. Brother of Grad-mother of the native. > (Mother's Uncle)> > Q: Why brother of Grad-Mother of the native should be considered > Father of the Native? > > A: Because the native's Mother married her Uncle, i.e. Her Mother's > Brother! > This is the traditional system of marriage in Tamilnadu. Thus > custom must have been followed by many sect in including Jains in > ancient India.> > Note that, the girl marrying her Uncle (mother's brother) was > followed in Tamilnadu & the girl marrying her Uncle's son was > followed in Kerala. [both these systems of 'marriage from blood > relation' should be contempted - that is another issue - which is not > relevant here]. The system of 'the girl marrying her maternal Uncle' > must

have been followed by Jains as well. It is because of that Garga > (a Jain sage) mentioned the same in his text.> > Hope the logic and derivation is clear.> Love,> Sreenadh > > ancient_indian_ <%40>> astrology , "Ram Jaswal" > rkjaswal@ wrote:> >> > Namaste Sreenadh> > > > Can you explain your "logic" again re:" 9th is - 4th (Mother's) 7th> > (Mother's) Brother (9th)"? Surely Younger Brother to Mother would > be 6th> > House (ie 3rd from 4th) whilst Elder Brother would be 2nd house > (11th from> > 4th)? Am I missing something?> > I can see 9th House is 6th from 4th and hence can say Mothers Uncle > and Not> > Mothers Brother? Is this what you meant?> > > > Regards ....> > >

> Jai Sita Ram> > > > Ram> > > > _____ > > > > ancient_indian_ <%40>> astrology > > [ancient_indian_> <%40>> astrology ] On Behalf Of > Sreenadh> > 02 October 2007 12:31> > ancient_indian_ <%40>> astrology > > Re: Lagna lord in 9th House> > > > Dear Haridas ji,> > 5th from what?!!> > > > 5th from 4th is - 8th> > 5th from 9th is - Lagna> > 5th from 5th is - 9th > > > > What do you mean? Please clarify.> > >

> Note: 9th is - 4th (Mother's) 7th (Mother's) Brother (9th). The> > custom of 'the girl marrying Mother's brother' is present among > people> > of Tamilnadu and was present possibly among Jains as well. That is > why> > 9th signify Father as per the jain sage - Garga. > > > > Love,> > Sreenadh> > > > ancient_indian_ <%> 40>> > astrology@grou <astrology%40> ps.com, "Haridas> Udupa"> > <ahudupa@> wrote:> > >> > > Dear Shri Sreenadh,> > > 10th house, being 7th to 4th indicates mother's husband.> > However, 9th> > > house has to be father since 5th from it, is self (the natvie, the> > child),> > > the Lagna. So, 10th house may be used to

indicate stepfather. Does> > it sound> > > logical?> > > Regards,> > > udupa> > > > > > On 10/2/07, Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote:> > > >> > > > Dear All,> > > > Here is the info to start a discussion on 'Lagna lord in 9th> > house'> > > > . Let us have a worthy discussion on the same.> > > > =========================================> > > >> > > > *> > > > Lagna lord in 9th House> > > > --> > > > *> > > >> > > > If lagna lord is in 9th, the native would be lucky and dear to> > people. He> > > > will be a devotee of God Vishnu. He would an efficient > individual,> > efficient> >

> > especially in speech and oratory. With wife, children and good> > amount of> > > > wealth (essentials for a good worldly life) he will lead a good> > life. He> > > > will have many respectable relatives. He will do many good deeds> > and would> > > > be a righteous individual. It could be said that he is an> > individual with> > > > `Satwa Guna', meaning he will have the ability to keep the same> > balanced> > > > state of mind both in happiness and sadness. Bestowed with many > good> > > > qualities, he will excel as a popular and radiant individual.> > [Note that> > > > father is NOT mentioned in any of the above results]> > > >> > > > *If lagna lord is in 9th, the native would be lucky and dear to> > people. He> > > > will be a

devotee of God Vishnu. He would an efficient > individual,> > efficient> > > > especially in speech and oratory. With wife, children and good> > amount of> > > > wealth (essentials for a good worldly life) he will lead a good > life.*> > > >> > > > *- Parasara Hora*> > > >> > > > Since 9th is the house signifying luck it is natural to say > that the> > > > native would be lucky, and a devotee of god. But why God Vishnu?> > There is> > > > specific reason for this derivation. The trines signify the> > trinity. Lagna> > > > signifies Brahma; 9th Vishnu; 5th Siva. This derivation > primarily> > comes from> > > > the zodiac itself. In the Zodiac Aries being the first sign > signifies> > > > creation and thus Brahma; 5th

being Leo, the house of Sun,> > signifies Siva,> > > > 9th being the Sagittarius, the house of Jupiter, signifies > Vishnu.> > There is> > > > a saying `Jeevastu Narayana', meaning `Jupiter signifies > Narayana (God> > > > Vishnu floating in the primordial ocean which caused the > creation> > of the> > > > universe). Thus 9th signifies god Vishnu and that is why it is> > derived that> > > > lagna lord in 9th will make the native a devotee of God Vishnu.> > Thus we get> > > > a cute rule -> > > >> > > > *Rule 8: The significance of all the 12 houses are related to > the> > 12 signs> > > > from Aries onwards as well. Aries could signify creation, so as > lagna;> > > > Taurus could signify food so as 2nd and so on. Much

significance> > that gets> > > > associated to the houses is derived in this way. This> > understanding can be> > > > used while deriving results using `House Base' system as well. *> > > >> > > > Parasara tells us that if lagna lord is in 9th he would be an> > efficient> > > > individual - why? Note that 9th is a house that is in the > visible> > part of> > > > zodiac. (1 to 7 = Invisible or hidden half; 7 to 12 = visible or> > popular> > > > half). Thus the qualities of the native would be well visible to> > the public;> > > > he is lucky, spiritual, and righteous. All these help him in > being an> > > > efficient and successful individual. But this logic does not > help> > us in> > > > clarifying the derivation - he would

be an efficient individual,> > efficient> > > > especially in speech and oratory. What speech has to do with > 9th?> > First it> > > > may seem that - no, there is no relation. But note that > Parasara is> > > > simply extending the previous rule stated. 9th Sign of zodiac is> > Sagittarius> > > > owned by Jupiter, and all the qualities such as Speech, > efficiency in> > > > speech, interest in telling spiritual and puranic stories, good> > knowledge> > > > are all related to Jupiter itself. Thus it is quite natural to> > derive the> > > > result `the native would be efficient especially in speech and> > oratory'.> > > > This ability of the native will persist even to his old age, as> > indicated by> > > > the fact that 9th is 8th (longevity)

from 2nd house (speech).> > Lagna lord in> > > > 9th gives beneficial results to 9th, causing longevity of > speech,> > or in> > > > other words, the ability to amaze people with wonderful > knowledge> > bits and> > > > excellent speaking abilities even in old age. Why it is said > that> > he would> > > > live a good life with wife, children and wealth? Note that these> > are the> > > > prime conditions for being a lucky person in worldly life. As a> > balanced,> > > > efficient, lucky individual he is sure to have the prime> > necessities for> > > > worldly happiness - which happens to be `wife, children and> > wealth'. Also> > > > note that 9th is 5th from 5th, and in essence LL in 9th bestows> > good results> > > > for

5th indicating - beneficial results for children (5th > house).> > Similarly> > > > 9th is 3rd, an upachaya (growth and well being) house from 7th.> > Thus LL in> > > > 9th gives beneficial results to 9th, indicating growth and> > well-being of 7th> > > > (wife) as well. LL in 9th aspects 3rd house, which is 2nd from > 2nd> > (a rule> > > > discussed earlier) and thus provides good results for 2nd house > as> > well,> > > > providing good wealth. Thus in short, it turns out that - > `wealth,> > wife and> > > > children' is a well thought-out derivation, supported by logic > in> > many ways.> > > >> > > > *If lagna lord is in 9th, the native will have many respectable> > relatives.> > > > He will do many good deeds (He

would a righteous individual); > keep> > the same> > > > balanced state of mind both in happiness and sadness (He is an> > individual> > > > with `Satwa Guna') ; will have many good qualities. He will > excel as a> > > > popular and radiant individual.*> > > >> > > > *- Meenaraja Hora*> > > >> > > > Why many respectable relatives - who are they? If Meenaraja > wanted to> > > > indicate the native will have a good father, it would have been> > easy to> > > > understand, since 9th signifies father. But he says - `many> > respectable> > > > relatives'. Of course respectability is a quality of 9th house > and> > therefore> > > > no doubt on that. A good respectable father is also a > possibility.> >

What> > > > about other relatives - intended? From the discussion of 3rd > house, we> > > > already know that -> > > >> > > > In male horoscope, 9th house can indicate - wife's sister,> > brother's wife,> > > > sister's husband and wife's brother.> > > >> > > > In female horoscope, 9th house can indicate - husband's brother,> > sister's> > > > husband, brother's wife, husband's sister.> > > >> > > > Son's son and daughter, Daughter's son and daughter, Mother's> > brother (the> > > > traditional husband as per some sects) are also indicated by > 9th house> > > > itself.> > > >> > > > It is due to all these reasons that Meenaraja resorted to the> > statement,> > > > `LL in 9th (bestows

good results for 9th and therefore) indicate> > having many> > > > respectable relatives to the native'.> > > >> > > > Meenaraja tells us that `the native will keep his equally > balanced> > state> > > > of mind in happiness and sadness' - why? It is because he is a> > spiritual> > > > individual. Spiritual awareness helps the native to achieve the> > same without> > > > much effort. In a calm mind the divine reflects and the > beneficial> > results> > > > follow. The remaining derivations of Meenaraja are also easy to> > understand> > > > in this context.> > > >> > > > Because we are discussing 9th house, there is unique point to> > note. Why> > > > 9th house signify father? If 4th is mother (as indicated by

the> > ownership of> > > > Moon in Cancer, 4th sign from Aries), then the natural thing was> > to say that> > > > 10th signify father, since the same is 7th from 4th as well. But> > all the> > > > medieval texts, tell us that - father is signified by 9th house.> > Why? Note> > > > that 9th indicate `Mother's mother's brother - the traditional> > husband as> > > > per customs followed by several sects'. The Vedic tradition > NEVER> > supported> > > > such a system - then how come astrological texts attribute the> > significance> > > > of father to 9th house instead of 10th? It would be interesting > to> > note the> > > > following points in this context.> > > >> > > > * Only books of Jain (Garga hora etc) and South Indian

tradition> > attribute> > > > 9th house to father. [i am yet to see any other ancient Rishi > hora> > sloka> > > > (other than Garga Hora sloka) which attribute the significance > of> > `father'> > > > to 9th house. Of course astrology did not originate in South > India> > but in> > > > the banks of `Saraswati River'. It is the ancient Jain siddhas > who> > spread it> > > > through out India, especially in south India]> > > >> > > > * All ancient text agree on the fact that 9th house signifies > Guru.> > > >> > > > * While discussing 4th house (and in many other places) Parasara> > indicated> > > > that father is signified by 10th house rather than 9th.> > > >> > > > * In many traditions

(including non-vedic and vedic; Agama and > Nigama)> > > > father was the first Guru of the native, especially related to> > Upanayana> > > > etc. Many texts say that - Guru IS father, equating both of > them,> > possibly> > > > because Upanayana (providing sacred thread) is considered as the> > second> > > > birth of the native.> > > >> > > > I think -> > > >> > > > 1) Emphasis with Jain and South indian traditions attribute the> > > > significance of father to 9th indicate that the tradition of > marrying> > > > `mother's brother' was very common among both of them.> > > >> > > > 2) This points to the agama (non-vedic) origin of astrology as> > well. Even> > > > Mihira tells us that `Astrology is an Agama

sastra' emphasizing > its> > > > non-vedic nature. But Mihira was so authentic and popular, that> > from the> > > > period of Mihira onwards considering 9th as father got accepted > by> > almost> > > > all the followers of astrology (south indian and north indian;> > non-vedic and> > > > vedic; Jain and Hindu) alike. Note that currently there is> > almost> > > > no text available (except BPHS) that tells us that - 10th house> > signifies> > > > father. It is cute fact to note.> > > >> > > > 3) Texts like Parasara hora (BC 1400) could be an effort to mix> > the Agama> > > > system of astrology (some streams of which like the Jains,> > followed customs> > > > like marrying `mother's brother') with the other streams (which >

never> > > > followed such a custom). This could be a controversial > statement.> > But if it> > > > is so, this also points to the fact why texts like BPHS are > popular in> > > > north, while south instead depends on older Rishi horas (like> > Skanda hora,> > > > Garga hora etc) and the text of Mihira who accepts that > astrology> > is an> > > > Agama sastra (Knowledge of Tantric origin).> > > >> > > > 4) It is also possible that the above statement is wrong. It is> > possible> > > > that except Jains (Garga Hora) no other Rishi horas followed the> > system of> > > > ascribing the significance of father to 9th house (we need to> > study the> > > > available quotes). It is possible that any such indications we > may> >

find in> > > > BPHS are later interpolations. If the above statements are true > we> > would> > > > have to resort to the statement "No Rishi Hora except Garga Hora> > attributes> > > > the significance of father to 9th house. As per them father is> > signified by> > > > 10th house". This is a subject with good scope for astrological> > research.> > > > Research and come out with ancient quotes that support your > arguments.> > > >> > > > 5) Essentially thus the fact springs up that the Jain > contribution> > to the> > > > development of astrology in India - is far more than what we > currently> > > > ascribe them to. Similarly the contribution of Vedic tradition > and> > > > literature to the development of Nirayana astrology is

far less> > than what we> > > > ascribe them to. Possibly ancient indian astrology is a branch > of> > science> > > > developed by the Asura Tantric culture of Harappa (which covered> > many other> > > > parts of the world such as Iran, Assyria etc as well) and spread> > throughout> > > > India mostly through the Jain Siddhas. That was why it was > still Agama> > > > sastra (Tantric knowledge branch) even at the period of Mihira> > (i.e. AD> > > > 550). Note that even Aryabhata was a Jain. Since Sage Garga - a> > Jain sage -> > > > who wrote Garga Hora lived around BC 1400, and was a > contemporary> > of Skanda> > > > (the originator of Nirayana astrological knowledge who wrote> > Skanda Hora),> > > > it turns out that the Jain

tradition is as old as Vedic > tradition.> > The Saiva> > > > Agama tradition existed prior to that even in the Harappan > period.> > So the> > > > flow of this eternal knowledge branch known as Nirayana > Astrology> > in ancient> > > > India would be from Saiva Agama tradition to Jain Tradition to> > South India> > > > through the sea shore (Gujarat and Orissa). And then by the > period> > of Mihira> > > > getting accepted by the whole of India - mixing both Agamic > Nirayana> > > > Zodiacal astrology and Vedic Tropical Astrology. Mutual> > interactions and> > > > give and take must have happened in between as well - but it is> > fair to say> > > > that till the period of Mihira (AD 550), Nirayana zodiacal> > Astrology and>

> > > Sayana Tropical astrology were treated separately in India - the> > first> > > > considered as Agamic and the second as Vedic (Nigamic). The> > non-vedic nature> > > > of astrology is also evident from the fact that, astrology texts> > don't even> > > > mention the name of Lagatha or his student Suchi, who wrote the > text> > > > `Vedanga Jyotisha' in BC1400, a text dealing with astronomy and> > calendar> > > > system known to and followed by vedic tradition. Thus possibly > all> > the 18> > > > sages mentioned by astrological classics were outside vedic> > tradition - no> > > > wonder the hindu brahmin fanatics prior to the period of Mihira> > never tried> > > > to save those astrological texts - from extinction. The other> > stalwart

of> > > > the same era, Aryabhata (AD 522) was a follower of Jain > religion.> > It should> > > > be said that - together they saved this knowledge of Nirayana> > astrology from> > > > complete extinction.> > > >> > > > We have drifted away a bit during this discussion, from our > major> > subject> > > > that is `Lagna lord in various house' but still I think it is> > worth it. Now> > > > let us go back and continue our study -> > > >> > > > The 9th house signifies things such as - luck, guru, vishnu, > purana,> > > > story telling, father, meditation, kind donations, righteous> > deeds, devotion> > > > etc. Thus the placement of lagna lord in 9th generates special> > importance to> > > > the derivations

related to the same.> > > >> > > > - by Sreenadh (sreesog@)> > > >> > > > =========================================> > > > Love,> > > > Sreenadh> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> >>

oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links.

[Guest guest]

Dear Ram ji,

Is it that you are not understanding or just stretching the thread

without reason?!!

Native (Lagna) never marries mother's uncle.

But Mother's Uncle (9th house) is the Father of the native. Because

native's mother married her uncle.

Re-read the previous mails - and think about it and try to

understand. Take 2-3 days to think, and then too if you are not

getting it - come back. Then we will see what can be done. Just

joking..

Love,

Sreenadh

 

, " Ram Jaswal "

<rkjaswal wrote:

>

> Namaste Sreenadh ji

>

> Maybe I am Still missing something - But how does Lagna (Native) end up

> marrying Mother's Uncle (9th Hse)? Surely Native's Partner is shown

by 7th

> Hse? I can understand Younger Uncle's (2nd Hse) Son (7th Hse) per your

> explanation for Kerala tradition But Not TamilNadu / Jains?

>

> Can you shed some more light re:Lagna and 9th Hse as regarding marriage?

>

> Best wishes ..

>

> Jai Sita Ram

>

> Ram

>

> _____

>

>

> On Behalf Of Sreenadh

> 05 October 2007 06:18

>

> Re: Lagna lord in 9th House

>

> Dear Ram ji,

> ==>

> > Can you explain your " logic " again re: " 9th is - 4th (Mother's) 7th

> (Mother's) Brother (9th)

> <==

> Q: Why 9th can signify father?

> Answer:

> * 4th is Mother

> * 7th is 4th from 4th, i.e. Mother's Mother, i.e. Grad-mother of the

> native.

> * 9th is 3rd from 7th, i.e. Brother of Grad-mother of the native.

> (Mother's Uncle)

>

> Q: Why brother of Grad-Mother of the native should be considered

> Father of the Native?

>

> A: Because the native's Mother married her Uncle, i.e. Her Mother's

> Brother!

> This is the traditional system of marriage in Tamilnadu. Thus

> custom must have been followed by many sect in including Jains in

> ancient India.

>

> Note that, the girl marrying her Uncle (mother's brother) was

> followed in Tamilnadu & the girl marrying her Uncle's son was

> followed in Kerala. [both these systems of 'marriage from blood

> relation' should be contempted - that is another issue - which is not

> relevant here]. The system of 'the girl marrying her maternal Uncle'

> must have been followed by Jains as well. It is because of that Garga

> (a Jain sage) mentioned the same in his text.

>

> Hope the logic and derivation is clear.

> Love,

> Sreenadh

>

> ancient_indian_

<%40>

> astrology , " Ram Jaswal "

> <rkjaswal@> wrote:

> >

> > Namaste Sreenadh

> >

> > Can you explain your " logic " again re: " 9th is - 4th (Mother's) 7th

> > (Mother's) Brother (9th) " ? Surely Younger Brother to Mother would

> be 6th

> > House (ie 3rd from 4th) whilst Elder Brother would be 2nd house

> (11th from

> > 4th)? Am I missing something?

> > I can see 9th House is 6th from 4th and hence can say Mothers Uncle

> and Not

> > Mothers Brother? Is this what you meant?

> >

> > Regards ....

> >

> > Jai Sita Ram

> >

> > Ram

> >

> > _____

> >

> > ancient_indian_

<%40>

> astrology

> > [ancient_indian_

> <%40>

> astrology ] On Behalf Of

> Sreenadh

> > 02 October 2007 12:31

> > ancient_indian_

<%40>

> astrology

> > Re: Lagna lord in 9th House

> >

> > Dear Haridas ji,

> > 5th from what?!!

> >

> > 5th from 4th is - 8th

> > 5th from 9th is - Lagna

> > 5th from 5th is - 9th

> >

> > What do you mean? Please clarify.

> >

> > Note: 9th is - 4th (Mother's) 7th (Mother's) Brother (9th). The

> > custom of 'the girl marrying Mother's brother' is present among

> people

> > of Tamilnadu and was present possibly among Jains as well. That is

> why

> > 9th signify Father as per the jain sage - Garga.

> >

> > Love,

> > Sreenadh

> >

> > ancient_indian_ <%

> 40>

> > astrology@grou <astrology%40> ps.com,

" Haridas

> Udupa "

> > <ahudupa@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Shri Sreenadh,

> > > 10th house, being 7th to 4th indicates mother's husband.

> > However, 9th

> > > house has to be father since 5th from it, is self (the natvie, the

> > child),

> > > the Lagna. So, 10th house may be used to indicate stepfather. Does

> > it sound

> > > logical?

> > > Regards,

> > > udupa

> > >

> > > On 10/2/07, Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear All,

> > > > Here is the info to start a discussion on 'Lagna lord in 9th

> > house'

> > > > . Let us have a worthy discussion on the same.

> > > > =========================================

> > > >

> > > > *

> > > > Lagna lord in 9th House

> > > > --

> > > > *

> > > >

> > > > If lagna lord is in 9th, the native would be lucky and dear to

> > people. He

> > > > will be a devotee of God Vishnu. He would an efficient

> individual,

> > efficient

> > > > especially in speech and oratory. With wife, children and good

> > amount of

> > > > wealth (essentials for a good worldly life) he will lead a good

> > life. He

> > > > will have many respectable relatives. He will do many good deeds

> > and would

> > > > be a righteous individual. It could be said that he is an

> > individual with

> > > > `Satwa Guna', meaning he will have the ability to keep the same

> > balanced

> > > > state of mind both in happiness and sadness. Bestowed with many

> good

> > > > qualities, he will excel as a popular and radiant individual.

> > [Note that

> > > > father is NOT mentioned in any of the above results]

> > > >

> > > > *If lagna lord is in 9th, the native would be lucky and dear to

> > people. He

> > > > will be a devotee of God Vishnu. He would an efficient

> individual,

> > efficient

> > > > especially in speech and oratory. With wife, children and good

> > amount of

> > > > wealth (essentials for a good worldly life) he will lead a good

> life.*

> > > >

> > > > *- Parasara Hora*

> > > >

> > > > Since 9th is the house signifying luck it is natural to say

> that the

> > > > native would be lucky, and a devotee of god. But why God Vishnu?

> > There is

> > > > specific reason for this derivation. The trines signify the

> > trinity. Lagna

> > > > signifies Brahma; 9th Vishnu; 5th Siva. This derivation

> primarily

> > comes from

> > > > the zodiac itself. In the Zodiac Aries being the first sign

> signifies

> > > > creation and thus Brahma; 5th being Leo, the house of Sun,

> > signifies Siva,

> > > > 9th being the Sagittarius, the house of Jupiter, signifies

> Vishnu.

> > There is

> > > > a saying `Jeevastu Narayana', meaning `Jupiter signifies

> Narayana (God

> > > > Vishnu floating in the primordial ocean which caused the

> creation

> > of the

> > > > universe). Thus 9th signifies god Vishnu and that is why it is

> > derived that

> > > > lagna lord in 9th will make the native a devotee of God Vishnu.

> > Thus we get

> > > > a cute rule -

> > > >

> > > > *Rule 8: The significance of all the 12 houses are related to

> the

> > 12 signs

> > > > from Aries onwards as well. Aries could signify creation, so as

> lagna;

> > > > Taurus could signify food so as 2nd and so on. Much significance

> > that gets

> > > > associated to the houses is derived in this way. This

> > understanding can be

> > > > used while deriving results using `House Base' system as well. *

> > > >

> > > > Parasara tells us that if lagna lord is in 9th he would be an

> > efficient

> > > > individual - why? Note that 9th is a house that is in the

> visible

> > part of

> > > > zodiac. (1 to 7 = Invisible or hidden half; 7 to 12 = visible or

> > popular

> > > > half). Thus the qualities of the native would be well visible to

> > the public;

> > > > he is lucky, spiritual, and righteous. All these help him in

> being an

> > > > efficient and successful individual. But this logic does not

> help

> > us in

> > > > clarifying the derivation - he would be an efficient individual,

> > efficient

> > > > especially in speech and oratory. What speech has to do with

> 9th?

> > First it

> > > > may seem that - no, there is no relation. But note that

> Parasara is

> > > > simply extending the previous rule stated. 9th Sign of zodiac is

> > Sagittarius

> > > > owned by Jupiter, and all the qualities such as Speech,

> efficiency in

> > > > speech, interest in telling spiritual and puranic stories, good

> > knowledge

> > > > are all related to Jupiter itself. Thus it is quite natural to

> > derive the

> > > > result `the native would be efficient especially in speech and

> > oratory'.

> > > > This ability of the native will persist even to his old age, as

> > indicated by

> > > > the fact that 9th is 8th (longevity) from 2nd house (speech).

> > Lagna lord in

> > > > 9th gives beneficial results to 9th, causing longevity of

> speech,

> > or in

> > > > other words, the ability to amaze people with wonderful

> knowledge

> > bits and

> > > > excellent speaking abilities even in old age. Why it is said

> that

> > he would

> > > > live a good life with wife, children and wealth? Note that these

> > are the

> > > > prime conditions for being a lucky person in worldly life. As a

> > balanced,

> > > > efficient, lucky individual he is sure to have the prime

> > necessities for

> > > > worldly happiness - which happens to be `wife, children and

> > wealth'. Also

> > > > note that 9th is 5th from 5th, and in essence LL in 9th bestows

> > good results

> > > > for 5th indicating - beneficial results for children (5th

> house).

> > Similarly

> > > > 9th is 3rd, an upachaya (growth and well being) house from 7th.

> > Thus LL in

> > > > 9th gives beneficial results to 9th, indicating growth and

> > well-being of 7th

> > > > (wife) as well. LL in 9th aspects 3rd house, which is 2nd from

> 2nd

> > (a rule

> > > > discussed earlier) and thus provides good results for 2nd house

> as

> > well,

> > > > providing good wealth. Thus in short, it turns out that -

> `wealth,

> > wife and

> > > > children' is a well thought-out derivation, supported by logic

> in

> > many ways.

> > > >

> > > > *If lagna lord is in 9th, the native will have many respectable

> > relatives.

> > > > He will do many good deeds (He would a righteous individual);

> keep

> > the same

> > > > balanced state of mind both in happiness and sadness (He is an

> > individual

> > > > with `Satwa Guna') ; will have many good qualities. He will

> excel as a

> > > > popular and radiant individual.*

> > > >

> > > > *- Meenaraja Hora*

> > > >

> > > > Why many respectable relatives - who are they? If Meenaraja

> wanted to

> > > > indicate the native will have a good father, it would have been

> > easy to

> > > > understand, since 9th signifies father. But he says - `many

> > respectable

> > > > relatives'. Of course respectability is a quality of 9th house

> and

> > therefore

> > > > no doubt on that. A good respectable father is also a

> possibility.

> > What

> > > > about other relatives - intended? From the discussion of 3rd

> house, we

> > > > already know that -

> > > >

> > > > In male horoscope, 9th house can indicate - wife's sister,

> > brother's wife,

> > > > sister's husband and wife's brother.

> > > >

> > > > In female horoscope, 9th house can indicate - husband's brother,

> > sister's

> > > > husband, brother's wife, husband's sister.

> > > >

> > > > Son's son and daughter, Daughter's son and daughter, Mother's

> > brother (the

> > > > traditional husband as per some sects) are also indicated by

> 9th house

> > > > itself.

> > > >

> > > > It is due to all these reasons that Meenaraja resorted to the

> > statement,

> > > > `LL in 9th (bestows good results for 9th and therefore) indicate

> > having many

> > > > respectable relatives to the native'.

> > > >

> > > > Meenaraja tells us that `the native will keep his equally

> balanced

> > state

> > > > of mind in happiness and sadness' - why? It is because he is a

> > spiritual

> > > > individual. Spiritual awareness helps the native to achieve the

> > same without

> > > > much effort. In a calm mind the divine reflects and the

> beneficial

> > results

> > > > follow. The remaining derivations of Meenaraja are also easy to

> > understand

> > > > in this context.

> > > >

> > > > Because we are discussing 9th house, there is unique point to

> > note. Why

> > > > 9th house signify father? If 4th is mother (as indicated by the

> > ownership of

> > > > Moon in Cancer, 4th sign from Aries), then the natural thing was

> > to say that

> > > > 10th signify father, since the same is 7th from 4th as well. But

> > all the

> > > > medieval texts, tell us that - father is signified by 9th house.

> > Why? Note

> > > > that 9th indicate `Mother's mother's brother - the traditional

> > husband as

> > > > per customs followed by several sects'. The Vedic tradition

> NEVER

> > supported

> > > > such a system - then how come astrological texts attribute the

> > significance

> > > > of father to 9th house instead of 10th? It would be interesting

> to

> > note the

> > > > following points in this context.

> > > >

> > > > * Only books of Jain (Garga hora etc) and South Indian tradition

> > attribute

> > > > 9th house to father. [i am yet to see any other ancient Rishi

> hora

> > sloka

> > > > (other than Garga Hora sloka) which attribute the significance

> of

> > `father'

> > > > to 9th house. Of course astrology did not originate in South

> India

> > but in

> > > > the banks of `Saraswati River'. It is the ancient Jain siddhas

> who

> > spread it

> > > > through out India, especially in south India]

> > > >

> > > > * All ancient text agree on the fact that 9th house signifies

> Guru.

> > > >

> > > > * While discussing 4th house (and in many other places) Parasara

> > indicated

> > > > that father is signified by 10th house rather than 9th.

> > > >

> > > > * In many traditions (including non-vedic and vedic; Agama and

> Nigama)

> > > > father was the first Guru of the native, especially related to

> > Upanayana

> > > > etc. Many texts say that - Guru IS father, equating both of

> them,

> > possibly

> > > > because Upanayana (providing sacred thread) is considered as the

> > second

> > > > birth of the native.

> > > >

> > > > I think -

> > > >

> > > > 1) Emphasis with Jain and South indian traditions attribute the

> > > > significance of father to 9th indicate that the tradition of

> marrying

> > > > `mother's brother' was very common among both of them.

> > > >

> > > > 2) This points to the agama (non-vedic) origin of astrology as

> > well. Even

> > > > Mihira tells us that `Astrology is an Agama sastra' emphasizing

> its

> > > > non-vedic nature. But Mihira was so authentic and popular, that

> > from the

> > > > period of Mihira onwards considering 9th as father got accepted

> by

> > almost

> > > > all the followers of astrology (south indian and north indian;

> > non-vedic and

> > > > vedic; Jain and Hindu) alike. Note that currently there is

> > almost

> > > > no text available (except BPHS) that tells us that - 10th house

> > signifies

> > > > father. It is cute fact to note.

> > > >

> > > > 3) Texts like Parasara hora (BC 1400) could be an effort to mix

> > the Agama

> > > > system of astrology (some streams of which like the Jains,

> > followed customs

> > > > like marrying `mother's brother') with the other streams (which

> never

> > > > followed such a custom). This could be a controversial

> statement.

> > But if it

> > > > is so, this also points to the fact why texts like BPHS are

> popular in

> > > > north, while south instead depends on older Rishi horas (like

> > Skanda hora,

> > > > Garga hora etc) and the text of Mihira who accepts that

> astrology

> > is an

> > > > Agama sastra (Knowledge of Tantric origin).

> > > >

> > > > 4) It is also possible that the above statement is wrong. It is

> > possible

> > > > that except Jains (Garga Hora) no other Rishi horas followed the

> > system of

> > > > ascribing the significance of father to 9th house (we need to

> > study the

> > > > available quotes). It is possible that any such indications we

> may

> > find in

> > > > BPHS are later interpolations. If the above statements are true

> we

> > would

> > > > have to resort to the statement " No Rishi Hora except Garga Hora

> > attributes

> > > > the significance of father to 9th house. As per them father is

> > signified by

> > > > 10th house " . This is a subject with good scope for astrological

> > research.

> > > > Research and come out with ancient quotes that support your

> arguments.

> > > >

> > > > 5) Essentially thus the fact springs up that the Jain

> contribution

> > to the

> > > > development of astrology in India - is far more than what we

> currently

> > > > ascribe them to. Similarly the contribution of Vedic tradition

> and

> > > > literature to the development of Nirayana astrology is far less

> > than what we

> > > > ascribe them to. Possibly ancient indian astrology is a branch

> of

> > science

> > > > developed by the Asura Tantric culture of Harappa (which covered

> > many other

> > > > parts of the world such as Iran, Assyria etc as well) and spread

> > throughout

> > > > India mostly through the Jain Siddhas. That was why it was

> still Agama

> > > > sastra (Tantric knowledge branch) even at the period of Mihira

> > (i.e. AD

> > > > 550). Note that even Aryabhata was a Jain. Since Sage Garga - a

> > Jain sage -

> > > > who wrote Garga Hora lived around BC 1400, and was a

> contemporary

> > of Skanda

> > > > (the originator of Nirayana astrological knowledge who wrote

> > Skanda Hora),

> > > > it turns out that the Jain tradition is as old as Vedic

> tradition.

> > The Saiva

> > > > Agama tradition existed prior to that even in the Harappan

> period.

> > So the

> > > > flow of this eternal knowledge branch known as Nirayana

> Astrology

> > in ancient

> > > > India would be from Saiva Agama tradition to Jain Tradition to

> > South India

> > > > through the sea shore (Gujarat and Orissa). And then by the

> period

> > of Mihira

> > > > getting accepted by the whole of India - mixing both Agamic

> Nirayana

> > > > Zodiacal astrology and Vedic Tropical Astrology. Mutual

> > interactions and

> > > > give and take must have happened in between as well - but it is

> > fair to say

> > > > that till the period of Mihira (AD 550), Nirayana zodiacal

> > Astrology and

> > > > Sayana Tropical astrology were treated separately in India - the

> > first

> > > > considered as Agamic and the second as Vedic (Nigamic). The

> > non-vedic nature

> > > > of astrology is also evident from the fact that, astrology texts

> > don't even

> > > > mention the name of Lagatha or his student Suchi, who wrote the

> text

> > > > `Vedanga Jyotisha' in BC1400, a text dealing with astronomy and

> > calendar

> > > > system known to and followed by vedic tradition. Thus possibly

> all

> > the 18

> > > > sages mentioned by astrological classics were outside vedic

> > tradition - no

> > > > wonder the hindu brahmin fanatics prior to the period of Mihira

> > never tried

> > > > to save those astrological texts - from extinction. The other

> > stalwart of

> > > > the same era, Aryabhata (AD 522) was a follower of Jain

> religion.

> > It should

> > > > be said that - together they saved this knowledge of Nirayana

> > astrology from

> > > > complete extinction.

> > > >

> > > > We have drifted away a bit during this discussion, from our

> major

> > subject

> > > > that is `Lagna lord in various house' but still I think it is

> > worth it. Now

> > > > let us go back and continue our study -

> > > >

> > > > The 9th house signifies things such as - luck, guru, vishnu,

> purana,

> > > > story telling, father, meditation, kind donations, righteous

> > deeds, devotion

> > > > etc. Thus the placement of lagna lord in 9th generates special

> > importance to

> > > > the derivations related to the same.

> > > >

> > > > - by Sreenadh (sreesog@)

> > > >

> > > > =========================================

> > > > Love,

> > > > Sreenadh

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Namaste Sreenadh ji

 

Yes – just re-read your comments!! OK

I catch your drift regarding Mothers Uncle (9th Hse) being the

Native’s Father (9th Hse) ie Mother marries her Uncle and by

inference a Female would marry her Uncle (6th Hse)?

 

Would this imply that TamilNadu / Jain astrologers

associate 6th Hse for marriage OR is it purely whilst looking at

Female Charts? As previously mentioned in my earlier note I could perhaps understand

Kerala’s tradition of Female (Native) marrying her Elder Uncle’s (2nd

Hse – 11th from 4th) Son (7th Hse).

 

Thanks for persevering with me (?)……..

 

Best wishes …….

 

Jai Sita Ram

 

Ram

 

 

 

 

 

On Behalf Of Sreenadh

06 October 2007 11:07

 

Subject:

Re: Lagna lord in 9th House

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Ram ji,

Is it that you are not understanding or just stretching the thread

without reason?!!

Native (Lagna) never marries mother's uncle.

But Mother's Uncle (9th house) is the Father of the native. Because

native's mother married her uncle.

Re-read the previous mails - and think about it and try to

understand. Take 2-3 days to think, and then too if you are not

getting it - come back. Then we will see what can be done. Just

joking..

Love,

Sreenadh

 

,

" Ram Jaswal "

<rkjaswal wrote:

>

> Namaste Sreenadh ji

>

> Maybe I am Still missing something - But how does Lagna (Native) end up

> marrying Mother's Uncle (9th Hse)? Surely Native's Partner is shown

by 7th

> Hse? I can understand Younger Uncle's (2nd Hse) Son (7th Hse) per your

> explanation for Kerala tradition But Not TamilNadu / Jains?

>

> Can you shed some more light re:Lagna and 9th Hse as regarding marriage?

>

> Best wishes ..

>

> Jai Sita Ram

>

> Ram

>

> _____

>

>

>

On Behalf Of Sreenadh

> 05 October 2007 06:18

>

> Re: Lagna lord in 9th House

>

> Dear Ram ji,

> ==>

> > Can you explain your " logic " again re: " 9th is - 4th

(Mother's) 7th

> (Mother's) Brother (9th)

> <==

> Q: Why 9th can signify father?

> Answer:

> * 4th is Mother

> * 7th is 4th from 4th, i.e. Mother's Mother, i.e. Grad-mother of the

> native.

> * 9th is 3rd from 7th, i.e. Brother of Grad-mother of the native.

> (Mother's Uncle)

>

> Q: Why brother of Grad-Mother of the native should be considered

> Father of the Native?

>

> A: Because the native's Mother married her Uncle, i.e. Her Mother's

> Brother!

> This is the traditional system of marriage in Tamilnadu. Thus

> custom must have been followed by many sect in including Jains in

> ancient India.

>

> Note that, the girl marrying her Uncle (mother's brother) was

> followed in Tamilnadu & the girl marrying her Uncle's son was

> followed in Kerala. [both these systems of 'marriage from blood

> relation' should be contempted - that is another issue - which is not

> relevant here]. The system of 'the girl marrying her maternal Uncle'

> must have been followed by Jains as well. It is because of that Garga

> (a Jain sage) mentioned the same in his text.

>

> Hope the logic and derivation is clear.

> Love,

> Sreenadh

>

> ancient_indian_

<%40>

> astrology ,

" Ram Jaswal "

> <rkjaswal@> wrote:

> >

> > Namaste Sreenadh

> >

> > Can you explain your " logic " again re: " 9th is - 4th

(Mother's) 7th

> > (Mother's) Brother (9th) " ? Surely Younger Brother to Mother

would

> be 6th

> > House (ie 3rd from 4th) whilst Elder Brother would be 2nd house

> (11th from

> > 4th)? Am I missing something?

> > I can see 9th House is 6th from 4th and hence can say Mothers Uncle

> and Not

> > Mothers Brother? Is this what you meant?

> >

> > Regards ....

> >

> > Jai Sita Ram

> >

> > Ram

> >

> > _____

> >

> > ancient_indian_

<%40>

> astrology

> > [ancient_indian_

> <%40>

> astrology ]

On Behalf Of

> Sreenadh

> > 02 October 2007 12:31

> > ancient_indian_

<%40>

> astrology

> > Re: Lagna lord in 9th House

> >

> > Dear Haridas ji,

> > 5th from what?!!

> >

> > 5th from 4th is - 8th

> > 5th from 9th is - Lagna

> > 5th from 5th is - 9th

> >

> > What do you mean? Please clarify.

> >

> > Note: 9th is - 4th (Mother's) 7th (Mother's) Brother (9th). The

> > custom of 'the girl marrying Mother's brother' is present among

> people

> > of Tamilnadu and was present possibly among Jains as well. That is

> why

> > 9th signify Father as per the jain sage - Garga.

> >

> > Love,

> > Sreenadh

> >

> > ancient_indian_ <%

> 40>

> > astrology@grou <astrology%40>

ps.com,

" Haridas

> Udupa "

> > <ahudupa@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Shri Sreenadh,

> > > 10th house, being 7th to 4th indicates mother's husband.

> > However, 9th

> > > house has to be father since 5th from it, is self (the natvie,

the

> > child),

> > > the Lagna. So, 10th house may be used to indicate stepfather.

Does

> > it sound

> > > logical?

> > > Regards,

> > > udupa

> > >

> > > On 10/2/07, Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear All,

> > > > Here is the info to start a discussion on 'Lagna lord in

9th

> > house'

> > > > . Let us have a worthy discussion on the same.

> > > > =========================================

> > > >

> > > > *

> > > > Lagna lord in 9th House

> > > > --

> > > > *

> > > >

> > > > If lagna lord is in 9th, the native would be lucky and dear

to

> > people. He

> > > > will be a devotee of God Vishnu. He would an efficient

> individual,

> > efficient

> > > > especially in speech and oratory. With wife, children and

good

> > amount of

> > > > wealth (essentials for a good worldly life) he will lead a

good

> > life. He

> > > > will have many respectable relatives. He will do many good

deeds

> > and would

> > > > be a righteous individual. It could be said that he is an

> > individual with

> > > > `Satwa Guna', meaning he will have the ability to keep the

same

> > balanced

> > > > state of mind both in happiness and sadness. Bestowed with

many

> good

> > > > qualities, he will excel as a popular and radiant

individual.

> > [Note that

> > > > father is NOT mentioned in any of the above results]

> > > >

> > > > *If lagna lord is in 9th, the native would be lucky and

dear to

> > people. He

> > > > will be a devotee of God Vishnu. He would an efficient

> individual,

> > efficient

> > > > especially in speech and oratory. With wife, children and

good

> > amount of

> > > > wealth (essentials for a good worldly life) he will lead a

good

> life.*

> > > >

> > > > *- Parasara Hora*

> > > >

> > > > Since 9th is the house signifying luck it is natural to say

 

> that the

> > > > native would be lucky, and a devotee of god. But why God

Vishnu?

> > There is

> > > > specific reason for this derivation. The trines signify the

> > trinity. Lagna

> > > > signifies Brahma; 9th Vishnu; 5th Siva. This derivation

> primarily

> > comes from

> > > > the zodiac itself. In the Zodiac Aries being the first sign

 

> signifies

> > > > creation and thus Brahma; 5th being Leo, the house of Sun,

> > signifies Siva,

> > > > 9th being the Sagittarius, the house of Jupiter, signifies

> Vishnu.

> > There is

> > > > a saying `Jeevastu Narayana', meaning `Jupiter signifies

> Narayana (God

> > > > Vishnu floating in the primordial ocean which caused the

> creation

> > of the

> > > > universe). Thus 9th signifies god Vishnu and that is why it

is

> > derived that

> > > > lagna lord in 9th will make the native a devotee of God

Vishnu.

> > Thus we get

> > > > a cute rule -

> > > >

> > > > *Rule 8: The significance of all the 12 houses are related

to

> the

> > 12 signs

> > > > from Aries onwards as well. Aries could signify creation,

so as

> lagna;

> > > > Taurus could signify food so as 2nd and so on. Much significance

> > that gets

> > > > associated to the houses is derived in this way. This

> > understanding can be

> > > > used while deriving results using `House Base' system as

well. *

> > > >

> > > > Parasara tells us that if lagna lord is in 9th he would be

an

> > efficient

> > > > individual - why? Note that 9th is a house that is in the

> visible

> > part of

> > > > zodiac. (1 to 7 = Invisible or hidden half; 7 to 12 =

visible or

> > popular

> > > > half). Thus the qualities of the native would be well visible

to

> > the public;

> > > > he is lucky, spiritual, and righteous. All these help him

in

> being an

> > > > efficient and successful individual. But this logic does

not

> help

> > us in

> > > > clarifying the derivation - he would be an efficient individual,

> > efficient

> > > > especially in speech and oratory. What speech has to do

with

> 9th?

> > First it

> > > > may seem that - no, there is no relation. But note that

> Parasara is

> > > > simply extending the previous rule stated. 9th Sign of zodiac

is

> > Sagittarius

> > > > owned by Jupiter, and all the qualities such as Speech,

> efficiency in

> > > > speech, interest in telling spiritual and puranic stories,

good

> > knowledge

> > > > are all related to Jupiter itself. Thus it is quite natural

to

> > derive the

> > > > result `the native would be efficient especially in speech

and

> > oratory'.

> > > > This ability of the native will persist even to his old

age, as

> > indicated by

> > > > the fact that 9th is 8th (longevity) from 2nd house

(speech).

> > Lagna lord in

> > > > 9th gives beneficial results to 9th, causing longevity of

> speech,

> > or in

> > > > other words, the ability to amaze people with wonderful

> knowledge

> > bits and

> > > > excellent speaking abilities even in old age. Why it is

said

> that

> > he would

> > > > live a good life with wife, children and wealth? Note that

these

> > are the

> > > > prime conditions for being a lucky person in worldly life.

As a

> > balanced,

> > > > efficient, lucky individual he is sure to have the prime

> > necessities for

> > > > worldly happiness - which happens to be `wife, children and

> > wealth'. Also

> > > > note that 9th is 5th from 5th, and in essence LL in 9th

bestows

> > good results

> > > > for 5th indicating - beneficial results for children (5th

> house).

> > Similarly

> > > > 9th is 3rd, an upachaya (growth and well being) house from

7th.

> > Thus LL in

> > > > 9th gives beneficial results to 9th, indicating growth and

> > well-being of 7th

> > > > (wife) as well. LL in 9th aspects 3rd house, which is 2nd

from

> 2nd

> > (a rule

> > > > discussed earlier) and thus provides good results for 2nd

house

> as

> > well,

> > > > providing good wealth. Thus in short, it turns out that -

> `wealth,

> > wife and

> > > > children' is a well thought-out derivation, supported by

logic

> in

> > many ways.

> > > >

> > > > *If lagna lord is in 9th, the native will have many

respectable

> > relatives.

> > > > He will do many good deeds (He would a righteous

individual);

> keep

> > the same

> > > > balanced state of mind both in happiness and sadness (He is

an

> > individual

> > > > with `Satwa Guna') ; will have many good qualities. He will

 

> excel as a

> > > > popular and radiant individual.*

> > > >

> > > > *- Meenaraja Hora*

> > > >

> > > > Why many respectable relatives - who are they? If Meenaraja

 

> wanted to

> > > > indicate the native will have a good father, it would have

been

> > easy to

> > > > understand, since 9th signifies father. But he says - `many

> > respectable

> > > > relatives'. Of course respectability is a quality of 9th

house

> and

> > therefore

> > > > no doubt on that. A good respectable father is also a

> possibility.

> > What

> > > > about other relatives - intended? From the discussion of

3rd

> house, we

> > > > already know that -

> > > >

> > > > In male horoscope, 9th house can indicate - wife's sister,

> > brother's wife,

> > > > sister's husband and wife's brother.

> > > >

> > > > In female horoscope, 9th house can indicate - husband's

brother,

> > sister's

> > > > husband, brother's wife, husband's sister.

> > > >

> > > > Son's son and daughter, Daughter's son and daughter,

Mother's

> > brother (the

> > > > traditional husband as per some sects) are also indicated

by

> 9th house

> > > > itself.

> > > >

> > > > It is due to all these reasons that Meenaraja resorted to

the

> > statement,

> > > > `LL in 9th (bestows good results for 9th and therefore)

indicate

> > having many

> > > > respectable relatives to the native'.

> > > >

> > > > Meenaraja tells us that `the native will keep his equally

> balanced

> > state

> > > > of mind in happiness and sadness' - why? It is because he

is a

> > spiritual

> > > > individual. Spiritual awareness helps the native to achieve

the

> > same without

> > > > much effort. In a calm mind the divine reflects and the

> beneficial

> > results

> > > > follow. The remaining derivations of Meenaraja are also

easy to

> > understand

> > > > in this context.

> > > >

> > > > Because we are discussing 9th house, there is unique point to

> > note. Why

> > > > 9th house signify father? If 4th is mother (as indicated by

the

> > ownership of

> > > > Moon in Cancer, 4th sign from Aries), then the natural

thing was

> > to say that

> > > > 10th signify father, since the same is 7th from 4th as

well. But

> > all the

> > > > medieval texts, tell us that - father is signified by 9th

house.

> > Why? Note

> > > > that 9th indicate `Mother's mother's brother - the

traditional

> > husband as

> > > > per customs followed by several sects'. The Vedic tradition

 

> NEVER

> > supported

> > > > such a system - then how come astrological texts attribute

the

> > significance

> > > > of father to 9th house instead of 10th? It would be

interesting

> to

> > note the

> > > > following points in this context.

> > > >

> > > > * Only books of Jain (Garga hora etc) and South Indian

tradition

> > attribute

> > > > 9th house to father. [i am yet to see any other ancient

Rishi

> hora

> > sloka

> > > > (other than Garga Hora sloka) which attribute the

significance

> of

> > `father'

> > > > to 9th house. Of course astrology did not originate in

South

> India

> > but in

> > > > the banks of `Saraswati

River'. It is the ancient

Jain siddhas

> who

> > spread it

> > > > through out India,

especially in south India]

> > > >

> > > > * All ancient text agree on the fact that 9th house

signifies

> Guru.

> > > >

> > > > * While discussing 4th house (and in many other places)

Parasara

> > indicated

> > > > that father is signified by 10th house rather than 9th.

> > > >

> > > > * In many traditions (including non-vedic and vedic; Agama

and

> Nigama)

> > > > father was the first Guru of the native, especially related

to

> > Upanayana

> > > > etc. Many texts say that - Guru IS father, equating both of

 

> them,

> > possibly

> > > > because Upanayana (providing sacred thread) is considered

as the

> > second

> > > > birth of the native.

> > > >

> > > > I think -

> > > >

> > > > 1) Emphasis with Jain and South indian traditions attribute

the

> > > > significance of father to 9th indicate that the tradition

of

> marrying

> > > > `mother's brother' was very common among both of them.

> > > >

> > > > 2) This points to the agama (non-vedic) origin of astrology

as

> > well. Even

> > > > Mihira tells us that `Astrology is an Agama sastra' emphasizing

 

> its

> > > > non-vedic nature. But Mihira was so authentic and popular,

that

> > from the

> > > > period of Mihira onwards considering 9th as father got

accepted

> by

> > almost

> > > > all the followers of astrology (south indian and north indian;

> > non-vedic and

> > > > vedic; Jain and Hindu) alike. Note that currently there is

> > almost

> > > > no text available (except BPHS) that tells us that - 10th

house

> > signifies

> > > > father. It is cute fact to note.

> > > >

> > > > 3) Texts like Parasara hora (BC 1400) could be an effort to

mix

> > the Agama

> > > > system of astrology (some streams of which like the Jains,

> > followed customs

> > > > like marrying `mother's brother') with the other streams

(which

> never

> > > > followed such a custom). This could be a controversial

> statement.

> > But if it

> > > > is so, this also points to the fact why texts like BPHS are

 

> popular in

> > > > north, while south instead depends on older Rishi horas

(like

> > Skanda hora,

> > > > Garga hora etc) and the text of Mihira who accepts that

> astrology

> > is an

> > > > Agama sastra (Knowledge of Tantric origin).

> > > >

> > > > 4) It is also possible that the above statement is wrong.

It is

> > possible

> > > > that except Jains (Garga Hora) no other Rishi horas

followed the

> > system of

> > > > ascribing the significance of father to 9th house (we need

to

> > study the

> > > > available quotes). It is possible that any such indications

we

> may

> > find in

> > > > BPHS are later interpolations. If the above statements are

true

> we

> > would

> > > > have to resort to the statement " No Rishi Hora except

Garga Hora

> > attributes

> > > > the significance of father to 9th house. As per them father

is

> > signified by

> > > > 10th house " . This is a subject with good scope for

astrological

> > research.

> > > > Research and come out with ancient quotes that support your

 

> arguments.

> > > >

> > > > 5) Essentially thus the fact springs up that the Jain

> contribution

> > to the

> > > > development of astrology in India - is far more than what we

> currently

> > > > ascribe them to. Similarly the contribution of Vedic

tradition

> and

> > > > literature to the development of Nirayana astrology is far

less

> > than what we

> > > > ascribe them to. Possibly ancient indian astrology is a

branch

> of

> > science

> > > > developed by the Asura Tantric culture of Harappa

(which covered

> > many other

> > > > parts of the world such as Iran, Assyria etc as well) and

spread

> > throughout

> > > > India

mostly through the Jain Siddhas. That was why it was

> still Agama

> > > > sastra (Tantric knowledge branch) even at the period of

Mihira

> > (i.e. AD

> > > > 550). Note that even Aryabhata was a Jain. Since Sage Garga

- a

> > Jain sage -

> > > > who wrote Garga Hora lived around BC 1400, and was a

> contemporary

> > of Skanda

> > > > (the originator of Nirayana astrological knowledge who

wrote

> > Skanda Hora),

> > > > it turns out that the Jain tradition is as old as Vedic

> tradition.

> > The Saiva

> > > > Agama tradition existed prior to that even in the Harappan

> period.

> > So the

> > > > flow of this eternal knowledge branch known as Nirayana

> Astrology

> > in ancient

> > > > India

would be from Saiva Agama tradition to Jain Tradition to

> > South India

> > > > through the sea shore (Gujarat

and Orissa). And then by the

> period

> > of Mihira

> > > > getting accepted by the whole of India - mixing both Agamic

> Nirayana

> > > > Zodiacal astrology and Vedic Tropical Astrology. Mutual

> > interactions and

> > > > give and take must have happened in between as well - but

it is

> > fair to say

> > > > that till the period of Mihira (AD 550), Nirayana zodiacal

> > Astrology and

> > > > Sayana Tropical astrology were treated separately in India - the

> > first

> > > > considered as Agamic and the second as Vedic (Nigamic). The

> > non-vedic nature

> > > > of astrology is also evident from the fact that, astrology

texts

> > don't even

> > > > mention the name of Lagatha or his student Suchi, who wrote

the

> text

> > > > `Vedanga Jyotisha' in BC1400, a text dealing with astronomy

and

> > calendar

> > > > system known to and followed by vedic tradition. Thus

possibly

> all

> > the 18

> > > > sages mentioned by astrological classics were outside vedic

> > tradition - no

> > > > wonder the hindu brahmin fanatics prior to the period of

Mihira

> > never tried

> > > > to save those astrological texts - from extinction. The

other

> > stalwart of

> > > > the same era, Aryabhata (AD 522) was a follower of Jain

> religion.

> > It should

> > > > be said that - together they saved this knowledge of

Nirayana

> > astrology from

> > > > complete extinction.

> > > >

> > > > We have drifted away a bit during this discussion, from our

 

> major

> > subject

> > > > that is `Lagna lord in various house' but still I think it

is

> > worth it. Now

> > > > let us go back and continue our study -

> > > >

> > > > The 9th house signifies things such as - luck, guru,

vishnu,

> purana,

> > > > story telling, father, meditation, kind donations,

righteous

> > deeds, devotion

> > > > etc. Thus the placement of lagna lord in 9th generates

special

> > importance to

> > > > the derivations related to the same.

> > > >

> > > > - by Sreenadh (sreesog@)

> > > >

> > > > =========================================

> > > > Love,

> > > > Sreenadh

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

A few thoughts:

 

H6 = house of servants, service, those we serve etc.....

 

H4= Mother

 

H9 = 6th (service) from 4th (mother) therefore Mothers service is

natives father.

 

Similarly the father's nature of 'service' is to provide the native

resouces/wealth for sustainence in eraly life (H2, which is 6th from

9th).

 

In Indian culture particularly, the Mothers main dharma is to serve

her husband (natives father), and her identity is linked closer to

that of a 'mother' than a wife, possibly explaining why 7th from 4th

(10th) may not have been taken as father by some astrologers.

 

But I agree that 10th has stronger logical foundations, but only just.

 

 

, " Ram Jaswal "

<rkjaswal wrote:

>

> Namaste Sreenadh ji

>

> Yes - just re-read your comments!! OK I catch your drift regarding

Mothers

> Uncle (9th Hse) being the Native's Father (9th Hse) ie Mother

marries her

> Uncle and by inference a Female would marry her Uncle (6th Hse)?

>

> Would this imply that TamilNadu / Jain astrologers associate 6th

Hse for

> marriage OR is it purely whilst looking at Female Charts? As

previously

> mentioned in my earlier note I could perhaps understand Kerala's

tradition

> of Female (Native) marrying her Elder Uncle's (2nd Hse - 11th from

4th) Son

> (7th Hse).

>

> Thanks for persevering with me (?)....

>

> Best wishes ...

>

> Jai Sita Ram

>

> Ram

>

> _____

>

>

> On Behalf Of

Sreenadh

> 06 October 2007 11:07

>

> Re: Lagna lord in 9th House

>

> Dear Ram ji,

> Is it that you are not understanding or just stretching the thread

> without reason?!!

> Native (Lagna) never marries mother's uncle.

> But Mother's Uncle (9th house) is the Father of the native. Because

> native's mother married her uncle.

> Re-read the previous mails - and think about it and try to

> understand. Take 2-3 days to think, and then too if you are not

> getting it - come back. Then we will see what can be done. Just

> joking..

> Love,

> Sreenadh

>

> ancient_indian_ <%

40>

> astrology , " Ram Jaswal "

> <rkjaswal@> wrote:

> >

> > Namaste Sreenadh ji

> >

> > Maybe I am Still missing something - But how does Lagna (Native)

end up

> > marrying Mother's Uncle (9th Hse)? Surely Native's Partner is

shown

> by 7th

> > Hse? I can understand Younger Uncle's (2nd Hse) Son (7th Hse) per

your

> > explanation for Kerala tradition But Not TamilNadu / Jains?

> >

> > Can you shed some more light re:Lagna and 9th Hse as regarding

marriage?

> >

> > Best wishes ..

> >

> > Jai Sita Ram

> >

> > Ram

> >

> > _____

> >

> > ancient_indian_ <%

40>

> astrology

> > [ancient_indian_

> <%40>

> astrology ] On Behalf Of Sreenadh

> > 05 October 2007 06:18

> > ancient_indian_ <%

40>

> astrology

> > Re: Lagna lord in 9th House

> >

> > Dear Ram ji,

> > ==>

> > > Can you explain your " logic " again re: " 9th is - 4th (Mother's)

7th

> > (Mother's) Brother (9th)

> > <==

> > Q: Why 9th can signify father?

> > Answer:

> > * 4th is Mother

> > * 7th is 4th from 4th, i.e. Mother's Mother, i.e. Grad-mother of

the

> > native.

> > * 9th is 3rd from 7th, i.e. Brother of Grad-mother of the native.

> > (Mother's Uncle)

> >

> > Q: Why brother of Grad-Mother of the native should be considered

> > Father of the Native?

> >

> > A: Because the native's Mother married her Uncle, i.e. Her

Mother's

> > Brother!

> > This is the traditional system of marriage in Tamilnadu. Thus

> > custom must have been followed by many sect in including Jains in

> > ancient India.

> >

> > Note that, the girl marrying her Uncle (mother's brother) was

> > followed in Tamilnadu & the girl marrying her Uncle's son was

> > followed in Kerala. [both these systems of 'marriage from blood

> > relation' should be contempted - that is another issue - which is

not

> > relevant here]. The system of 'the girl marrying her maternal

Uncle'

> > must have been followed by Jains as well. It is because of that

Garga

> > (a Jain sage) mentioned the same in his text.

> >

> > Hope the logic and derivation is clear.

> > Love,

> > Sreenadh

> >

> > ancient_indian_

> <%40>

> > astrology@grou <astrology%40>

ps.com, " Ram

> Jaswal "

> > <rkjaswal@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Namaste Sreenadh

> > >

> > > Can you explain your " logic " again re: " 9th is - 4th (Mother's)

7th

> > > (Mother's) Brother (9th) " ? Surely Younger Brother to Mother

would

> > be 6th

> > > House (ie 3rd from 4th) whilst Elder Brother would be 2nd house

> > (11th from

> > > 4th)? Am I missing something?

> > > I can see 9th House is 6th from 4th and hence can say Mothers

Uncle

> > and Not

> > > Mothers Brother? Is this what you meant?

> > >

> > > Regards ....

> > >

> > > Jai Sita Ram

> > >

> > > Ram

> > >

> > > _____

> > >

> > > ancient_indian_

> <%40>

> > astrology@grou <astrology%40> ps.com

> > > [ancient_indian_

> > <%40>

> > astrology@grou <astrology%40> ps.com]

On Behalf

> Of

> > Sreenadh

> > > 02 October 2007 12:31

> > > ancient_indian_

> <%40>

> > astrology@grou <astrology%40> ps.com

> > > Re: Lagna lord in 9th House

> > >

> > > Dear Haridas ji,

> > > 5th from what?!!

> > >

> > > 5th from 4th is - 8th

> > > 5th from 9th is - Lagna

> > > 5th from 5th is - 9th

> > >

> > > What do you mean? Please clarify.

> > >

> > > Note: 9th is - 4th (Mother's) 7th (Mother's) Brother (9th). The

> > > custom of 'the girl marrying Mother's brother' is present among

> > people

> > > of Tamilnadu and was present possibly among Jains as well. That

is

> > why

> > > 9th signify Father as per the jain sage - Garga.

> > >

> > > Love,

> > > Sreenadh

> > >

> > > ancient_indian_ <%

> > 40>

> > > astrology@grou <astrology%40> ps.com,

> " Haridas

> > Udupa "

> > > <ahudupa@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Shri Sreenadh,

> > > > 10th house, being 7th to 4th indicates mother's husband.

> > > However, 9th

> > > > house has to be father since 5th from it, is self (the

natvie, the

> > > child),

> > > > the Lagna. So, 10th house may be used to indicate stepfather.

Does

> > > it sound

> > > > logical?

> > > > Regards,

> > > > udupa

> > > >

> > > > On 10/2/07, Sreenadh <sreesog@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear All,

> > > > > Here is the info to start a discussion on 'Lagna lord in 9th

> > > house'

> > > > > . Let us have a worthy discussion on the same.

> > > > > =========================================

> > > > >

> > > > > *

> > > > > Lagna lord in 9th House

> > > > > --

> > > > > *

> > > > >

> > > > > If lagna lord is in 9th, the native would be lucky and dear

to

> > > people. He

> > > > > will be a devotee of God Vishnu. He would an efficient

> > individual,

> > > efficient

> > > > > especially in speech and oratory. With wife, children and

good

> > > amount of

> > > > > wealth (essentials for a good worldly life) he will lead a

good

> > > life. He

> > > > > will have many respectable relatives. He will do many good

deeds

> > > and would

> > > > > be a righteous individual. It could be said that he is an

> > > individual with

> > > > > `Satwa Guna', meaning he will have the ability to keep the

same

> > > balanced

> > > > > state of mind both in happiness and sadness. Bestowed with

many

> > good

> > > > > qualities, he will excel as a popular and radiant

individual.

> > > [Note that

> > > > > father is NOT mentioned in any of the above results]

> > > > >

> > > > > *If lagna lord is in 9th, the native would be lucky and

dear to

> > > people. He

> > > > > will be a devotee of God Vishnu. He would an efficient

> > individual,

> > > efficient

> > > > > especially in speech and oratory. With wife, children and

good

> > > amount of

> > > > > wealth (essentials for a good worldly life) he will lead a

good

> > life.*

> > > > >

> > > > > *- Parasara Hora*

> > > > >

> > > > > Since 9th is the house signifying luck it is natural to say

> > that the

> > > > > native would be lucky, and a devotee of god. But why God

Vishnu?

> > > There is

> > > > > specific reason for this derivation. The trines signify the

> > > trinity. Lagna

> > > > > signifies Brahma; 9th Vishnu; 5th Siva. This derivation

> > primarily

> > > comes from

> > > > > the zodiac itself. In the Zodiac Aries being the first sign

> > signifies

> > > > > creation and thus Brahma; 5th being Leo, the house of Sun,

> > > signifies Siva,

> > > > > 9th being the Sagittarius, the house of Jupiter, signifies

> > Vishnu.

> > > There is

> > > > > a saying `Jeevastu Narayana', meaning `Jupiter signifies

> > Narayana (God

> > > > > Vishnu floating in the primordial ocean which caused the

> > creation

> > > of the

> > > > > universe). Thus 9th signifies god Vishnu and that is why it

is

> > > derived that

> > > > > lagna lord in 9th will make the native a devotee of God

Vishnu.

> > > Thus we get

> > > > > a cute rule -

> > > > >

> > > > > *Rule 8: The significance of all the 12 houses are related

to

> > the

> > > 12 signs

> > > > > from Aries onwards as well. Aries could signify creation,

so as

> > lagna;

> > > > > Taurus could signify food so as 2nd and so on. Much

significance

> > > that gets

> > > > > associated to the houses is derived in this way. This

> > > understanding can be

> > > > > used while deriving results using `House Base' system as

well. *

> > > > >

> > > > > Parasara tells us that if lagna lord is in 9th he would be

an

> > > efficient

> > > > > individual - why? Note that 9th is a house that is in the

> > visible

> > > part of

> > > > > zodiac. (1 to 7 = Invisible or hidden half; 7 to 12 =

visible or

> > > popular

> > > > > half). Thus the qualities of the native would be well

visible to

> > > the public;

> > > > > he is lucky, spiritual, and righteous. All these help him

in

> > being an

> > > > > efficient and successful individual. But this logic does

not

> > help

> > > us in

> > > > > clarifying the derivation - he would be an efficient

individual,

> > > efficient

> > > > > especially in speech and oratory. What speech has to do

with

> > 9th?

> > > First it

> > > > > may seem that - no, there is no relation. But note that

> > Parasara is

> > > > > simply extending the previous rule stated. 9th Sign of

zodiac is

> > > Sagittarius

> > > > > owned by Jupiter, and all the qualities such as Speech,

> > efficiency in

> > > > > speech, interest in telling spiritual and puranic stories,

good

> > > knowledge

> > > > > are all related to Jupiter itself. Thus it is quite natural

to

> > > derive the

> > > > > result `the native would be efficient especially in speech

and

> > > oratory'.

> > > > > This ability of the native will persist even to his old

age, as

> > > indicated by

> > > > > the fact that 9th is 8th (longevity) from 2nd house

(speech).

> > > Lagna lord in

> > > > > 9th gives beneficial results to 9th, causing longevity of

> > speech,

> > > or in

> > > > > other words, the ability to amaze people with wonderful

> > knowledge

> > > bits and

> > > > > excellent speaking abilities even in old age. Why it is

said

> > that

> > > he would

> > > > > live a good life with wife, children and wealth? Note that

these

> > > are the

> > > > > prime conditions for being a lucky person in worldly life.

As a

> > > balanced,

> > > > > efficient, lucky individual he is sure to have the prime

> > > necessities for

> > > > > worldly happiness - which happens to be `wife, children and

> > > wealth'. Also

> > > > > note that 9th is 5th from 5th, and in essence LL in 9th

bestows

> > > good results

> > > > > for 5th indicating - beneficial results for children (5th

> > house).

> > > Similarly

> > > > > 9th is 3rd, an upachaya (growth and well being) house from

7th.

> > > Thus LL in

> > > > > 9th gives beneficial results to 9th, indicating growth and

> > > well-being of 7th

> > > > > (wife) as well. LL in 9th aspects 3rd house, which is 2nd

from

> > 2nd

> > > (a rule

> > > > > discussed earlier) and thus provides good results for 2nd

house

> > as

> > > well,

> > > > > providing good wealth. Thus in short, it turns out that -

> > `wealth,

> > > wife and

> > > > > children' is a well thought-out derivation, supported by

logic

> > in

> > > many ways.

> > > > >

> > > > > *If lagna lord is in 9th, the native will have many

respectable

> > > relatives.

> > > > > He will do many good deeds (He would a righteous

individual);

> > keep

> > > the same

> > > > > balanced state of mind both in happiness and sadness (He is

an

> > > individual

> > > > > with `Satwa Guna') ; will have many good qualities. He will

> > excel as a

> > > > > popular and radiant individual.*

> > > > >

> > > > > *- Meenaraja Hora*

> > > > >

> > > > > Why many respectable relatives - who are they? If Meenaraja

> > wanted to

> > > > > indicate the native will have a good father, it would have

been

> > > easy to

> > > > > understand, since 9th signifies father. But he says - `many

> > > respectable

> > > > > relatives'. Of course respectability is a quality of 9th

house

> > and

> > > therefore

> > > > > no doubt on that. A good respectable father is also a

> > possibility.

> > > What

> > > > > about other relatives - intended? From the discussion of

3rd

> > house, we

> > > > > already know that -

> > > > >

> > > > > In male horoscope, 9th house can indicate - wife's sister,

> > > brother's wife,

> > > > > sister's husband and wife's brother.

> > > > >

> > > > > In female horoscope, 9th house can indicate - husband's

brother,

> > > sister's

> > > > > husband, brother's wife, husband's sister.

> > > > >

> > > > > Son's son and daughter, Daughter's son and daughter,

Mother's

> > > brother (the

> > > > > traditional husband as per some sects) are also indicated

by

> > 9th house

> > > > > itself.

> > > > >

> > > > > It is due to all these reasons that Meenaraja resorted to

the

> > > statement,

> > > > > `LL in 9th (bestows good results for 9th and therefore)

indicate

> > > having many

> > > > > respectable relatives to the native'.

> > > > >

> > > > > Meenaraja tells us that `the native will keep his equally

> > balanced

> > > state

> > > > > of mind in happiness and sadness' - why? It is because he

is a

> > > spiritual

> > > > > individual. Spiritual awareness helps the native to achieve

the

> > > same without

> > > > > much effort. In a calm mind the divine reflects and the

> > beneficial

> > > results

> > > > > follow. The remaining derivations of Meenaraja are also

easy to

> > > understand

> > > > > in this context.

> > > > >

> > > > > Because we are discussing 9th house, there is unique point

to

> > > note. Why

> > > > > 9th house signify father? If 4th is mother (as indicated by

the

> > > ownership of

> > > > > Moon in Cancer, 4th sign from Aries), then the natural

thing was

> > > to say that

> > > > > 10th signify father, since the same is 7th from 4th as

well. But

> > > all the

> > > > > medieval texts, tell us that - father is signified by 9th

house.

> > > Why? Note

> > > > > that 9th indicate `Mother's mother's brother - the

traditional

> > > husband as

> > > > > per customs followed by several sects'. The Vedic tradition

> > NEVER

> > > supported

> > > > > such a system - then how come astrological texts attribute

the

> > > significance

> > > > > of father to 9th house instead of 10th? It would be

interesting

> > to

> > > note the

> > > > > following points in this context.

> > > > >

> > > > > * Only books of Jain (Garga hora etc) and South Indian

tradition

> > > attribute

> > > > > 9th house to father. [i am yet to see any other ancient

Rishi

> > hora

> > > sloka

> > > > > (other than Garga Hora sloka) which attribute the

significance

> > of

> > > `father'

> > > > > to 9th house. Of course astrology did not originate in

South

> > India

> > > but in

> > > > > the banks of `Saraswati River'. It is the ancient Jain

siddhas

> > who

> > > spread it

> > > > > through out India, especially in south India]

> > > > >

> > > > > * All ancient text agree on the fact that 9th house

signifies

> > Guru.

> > > > >

> > > > > * While discussing 4th house (and in many other places)

Parasara

> > > indicated

> > > > > that father is signified by 10th house rather than 9th.

> > > > >

> > > > > * In many traditions (including non-vedic and vedic; Agama

and

> > Nigama)

> > > > > father was the first Guru of the native, especially related

to

> > > Upanayana

> > > > > etc. Many texts say that - Guru IS father, equating both of

> > them,

> > > possibly

> > > > > because Upanayana (providing sacred thread) is considered

as the

> > > second

> > > > > birth of the native.

> > > > >

> > > > > I think -

> > > > >

> > > > > 1) Emphasis with Jain and South indian traditions attribute

the

> > > > > significance of father to 9th indicate that the tradition

of

> > marrying

> > > > > `mother's brother' was very common among both of them.

> > > > >

> > > > > 2) This points to the agama (non-vedic) origin of astrology

as

> > > well. Even

> > > > > Mihira tells us that `Astrology is an Agama sastra'

emphasizing

> > its

> > > > > non-vedic nature. But Mihira was so authentic and popular,

that

> > > from the

> > > > > period of Mihira onwards considering 9th as father got

accepted

> > by

> > > almost

> > > > > all the followers of astrology (south indian and north

indian;

> > > non-vedic and

> > > > > vedic; Jain and Hindu) alike. Note that currently there is

> > > almost

> > > > > no text available (except BPHS) that tells us that - 10th

house

> > > signifies

> > > > > father. It is cute fact to note.

> > > > >

> > > > > 3) Texts like Parasara hora (BC 1400) could be an effort to

mix

> > > the Agama

> > > > > system of astrology (some streams of which like the Jains,

> > > followed customs

> > > > > like marrying `mother's brother') with the other streams

(which

> > never

> > > > > followed such a custom). This could be a controversial

> > statement.

> > > But if it

> > > > > is so, this also points to the fact why texts like BPHS are

> > popular in

> > > > > north, while south instead depends on older Rishi horas

(like

> > > Skanda hora,

> > > > > Garga hora etc) and the text of Mihira who accepts that

> > astrology

> > > is an

> > > > > Agama sastra (Knowledge of Tantric origin).

> > > > >

> > > > > 4) It is also possible that the above statement is wrong.

It is

> > > possible

> > > > > that except Jains (Garga Hora) no other Rishi horas

followed the

> > > system of

> > > > > ascribing the significance of father to 9th house (we need

to

> > > study the

> > > > > available quotes). It is possible that any such indications

we

> > may

> > > find in

> > > > > BPHS are later interpolations. If the above statements are

true

> > we

> > > would

> > > > > have to resort to the statement " No Rishi Hora except Garga

Hora

> > > attributes

> > > > > the significance of father to 9th house. As per them father

is

> > > signified by

> > > > > 10th house " . This is a subject with good scope for

astrological

> > > research.

> > > > > Research and come out with ancient quotes that support your

> > arguments.

> > > > >

> > > > > 5) Essentially thus the fact springs up that the Jain

> > contribution

> > > to the

> > > > > development of astrology in India - is far more than what

we

> > currently

> > > > > ascribe them to. Similarly the contribution of Vedic

tradition

> > and

> > > > > literature to the development of Nirayana astrology is far

less

> > > than what we

> > > > > ascribe them to. Possibly ancient indian astrology is a

branch

> > of

> > > science

> > > > > developed by the Asura Tantric culture of Harappa (which

covered

> > > many other

> > > > > parts of the world such as Iran, Assyria etc as well) and

spread

> > > throughout

> > > > > India mostly through the Jain Siddhas. That was why it was

> > still Agama

> > > > > sastra (Tantric knowledge branch) even at the period of

Mihira

> > > (i.e. AD

> > > > > 550). Note that even Aryabhata was a Jain. Since Sage

Garga - a

> > > Jain sage -

> > > > > who wrote Garga Hora lived around BC 1400, and was a

> > contemporary

> > > of Skanda

> > > > > (the originator of Nirayana astrological knowledge who wrote

> > > Skanda Hora),

> > > > > it turns out that the Jain tradition is as old as Vedic

> > tradition.

> > > The Saiva

> > > > > Agama tradition existed prior to that even in the Harappan

> > period.

> > > So the

> > > > > flow of this eternal knowledge branch known as Nirayana

> > Astrology

> > > in ancient

> > > > > India would be from Saiva Agama tradition to Jain Tradition

to

> > > South India

> > > > > through the sea shore (Gujarat and Orissa). And then by the

> > period

> > > of Mihira

> > > > > getting accepted by the whole of India - mixing both Agamic

> > Nirayana

> > > > > Zodiacal astrology and Vedic Tropical Astrology. Mutual

> > > interactions and

> > > > > give and take must have happened in between as well - but

it is

> > > fair to say

> > > > > that till the period of Mihira (AD 550), Nirayana zodiacal

> > > Astrology and

> > > > > Sayana Tropical astrology were treated separately in India -

the

> > > first

> > > > > considered as Agamic and the second as Vedic (Nigamic). The

> > > non-vedic nature

> > > > > of astrology is also evident from the fact that, astrology

texts

> > > don't even

> > > > > mention the name of Lagatha or his student Suchi, who wrote

the

> > text

> > > > > `Vedanga Jyotisha' in BC1400, a text dealing with astronomy

and

> > > calendar

> > > > > system known to and followed by vedic tradition. Thus

possibly

> > all

> > > the 18

> > > > > sages mentioned by astrological classics were outside vedic

> > > tradition - no

> > > > > wonder the hindu brahmin fanatics prior to the period of

Mihira

> > > never tried

> > > > > to save those astrological texts - from extinction. The

other

> > > stalwart of

> > > > > the same era, Aryabhata (AD 522) was a follower of Jain

> > religion.

> > > It should

> > > > > be said that - together they saved this knowledge of

Nirayana

> > > astrology from

> > > > > complete extinction.

> > > > >

> > > > > We have drifted away a bit during this discussion, from our

> > major

> > > subject

> > > > > that is `Lagna lord in various house' but still I think it

is

> > > worth it. Now

> > > > > let us go back and continue our study -

> > > > >

> > > > > The 9th house signifies things such as - luck, guru,

vishnu,

> > purana,

> > > > > story telling, father, meditation, kind donations, righteous

> > > deeds, devotion

> > > > > etc. Thus the placement of lagna lord in 9th generates

special

> > > importance to

> > > > > the derivations related to the same.

> > > > >

> > > > > - by Sreenadh (sreesog@)

> > > > >

> > > > > =========================================

> > > > > Love,

> > > > > Sreenadh

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>