Guest guest Posted October 25, 2007 Report Share Posted October 25, 2007 Dear Sreenadh,It appears you misunderstood the context of the mail. Without going into the details of precession and other relevant aspects, I merely wished to mention the duration of each yuga and their relative relationship as it appears in the texts. If this duration be right, Treta Yuga ended approximately 869,000 (864,000+5000) years ago. That would point to the dating of Ramayana! Research, however, do not consider this as a possibility - anthropological research dates homo-sapien to be only 250,000 years!!! Further, I mentioned that the total of the four yugas is the LCM of the planetary movement through the cosmos and is the basis of yuga calculations. Remember creation is cyclic and this is where the concept of Mahayug, Manvanatar and Kalp comes in. Best wishes,Amitabh ShastriSreenadh <sreesog Sent: Wednesday, 24 October, 2007 6:05:30 PM Re: Yuga system Hi Kaul ji and all, I am of the opinion that "If not representing the precession minutes and seconds, if not useful for arriving at concrete calculation results related to planetary movements, the Yuga numbers are useless and misleading". * We know for sure that the Yuga numbers helped the ancient astronomers very much in "arriving at concrete calculation results related to planetary movements". * The latest argument related to yuga numbers is that "it points to precession minutes and seconds, and seems to be valid". * Yuga concept seems to be a mathematical solution to some well known problems. It could be the lack of understanding of later day scholars that might have caused the lose of basic logic behind the yuga number determination and use. Love, Sreenadh ancient_indian_ astrology, Amitabh Shastri <amitabh_shastri@ ...> wrote: > > Dear Kaulji, > > My two cents on this. > > It has long been advocated that the life of > Kaliyug is 432,000 years. The previous yugas were in simple multiples > of this basic figure. Thus Dwapar, Treta and Satyug were 2, 3 and 4 > times respectively. Thus the total age of a Mahayug comprising of one > cycle of Sat, Treta, Dwapar and Kaliyug has been said to be 4,320,000 > years and it has been said that this is the LCM of planetary movement > through the cosmos; i.e. planets would return to the same position > after this period or one cycle of their movement would be completed. > This is one of the fundamental concept of time advocated in our ancient > scriptures. > > This period, I recall reading somewhere (regret do not remember the source), relates to the degree of truthful nature or so called religiousness of mankind, in general. Thus in each yuga it is 100, 75, 50 and 25 percents respectively commencing from Satyuga. > > While > I do not dispute the scientific fats about the Ice Age, unwritten history etc, my query is > with regard to the positions mentioned by Maharshi Valmiki. Did he give all planetary positions for an event? The learned scholars may be able to shed some > light on this aspect. > > Excavations off Dwarka coast in Gujarat have been > dated to be around 3000 years old and we are said be around 5000 years into Kaliyug. This, fortunately, is widely accepted by all... > > Vedas for long have been Shruti and Smriti texts followed by Brahmans. Aranyaks, Vedangas etc. Puranic texts are of much later date and are more historical in nature! > > > > Regards, > Amitabh Shastri > > > > > Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved@. ..> > ancient_indian_ astrology > Tuesday, 23 October, 2007 10:34:55 PM > [ancient_indian_ astrology] Fwd: Re: [VRI] We are celebrating all our festivals on wrong days! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > HinduCalendar, "Avtar Krishen Kaul" > > <jyotirved@ ..> wrote: > > > > Shri V V Ramanji, > > Namaskar! > > <On the basis of current astronomy, it is difficult to imagine that > > in the Treta Yuga (several hundred thousand years ago) we had the > > same stellar and planetary configurations and so the same calendar > > as now> > > > > This yuga business has left me more confused than anything else! > > > > The Surya Sidhana tells us that the present Kaliyuga started on > > February 17/18, 3102 BCE at midnight at Ujjain. Dwapara yuga was > > supposed to have lasted for 864,000 years prior to that! Treta > > Yuga "ruled" for 1,296,000 years before that and of course, Satya > > Yuga "regined" for 1,728,000 before Treta Yuga! > > > > Kaliyuga is supposed to last for 4,320,000 years! > > > > It means that the Rig Veda etc. must have been revealed several > > million years back since that is supposed to be the earliest Veda as > > per the Pauranic lore! > > > > Archaeological evidence, on the other hand, points out that > > no "written word" prior to about 7000 BC is available in any > > civilization! > > > > Similarly, as you must have seen from the posts of "Vedic > > atrologers" and "Vedic astronomers" Bhagwan Ram could have > > incarnated any time between 1000 BC and 7500 BC at the most! > > Surprisingly, all of them quote the same Valmiki Ramayana as their > > source of information! > > > > The Valmiki Ramayana, Gita Press edition, on the other hand, talks > > of Dasharatha having reigned for about 60,000 years whereas Bhagwan > > Ram reigned for about ten thousand years! Thus if we believe > > our "Vedic astrologers" , then Bhagwan Ram is still hiding somehwere > > since if He Incarnated in 7500 BC (the earliest!) then there are > > still five hundred years of His rule left! > > > > I do not know whether He is ruling through proxies like George W. > > Bush or Dr. Manmohan Singh etc., but certainly I do not find > > anything like Rama Rajya these days! Qualitatively, it is more like > > Ravana-Rajya, though, since the fisticuffs in Assemblies and > > Parlimaent between the "Raja-Purashas" would put even the > > Ahiravanas and Mahiravanas to shame! > > > > I only hope I have not confused you also just as I am confused! > > Maybe you can help me overcome such a confusion! > > With regards, > > Avtar Krishen Kaul > > > > HinduCalendar, "V. V. Raman" <vvrsps@> wrote: > > > > > > On the basis of current astronomy, it is difficult to imagine that > > in the Treta Yuga (several hundred thousand years ago) we had the > > same > > stellar and planetary configurations and so the same calendar as now. > > > I am wondering if this can be regarded as a valid concern. > > > > > > V. V. Raman > > > > > > > --- End forwarded message --- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <!-- > > #ygrp-mkp{ > border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font- family:Arial; margin:14px 0px;padding: 0px 14px;} > #ygrp-mkp hr{ > border:1px solid #d8d8d8;} > #ygrp-mkp #hd{ > color:#628c2a; font-size: 85%;font- weight:bold; line- height:122%; margin:10px 0px;} > #ygrp-mkp #ads{ > margin-bottom: 10px;} > #ygrp-mkp .ad{ > padding:0 0;} > #ygrp-mkp .ad a{ > color:#0000ff; text-decoration: none;} > --> > > > > <!-- > > #ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc{ > font-family: Arial;} > #ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc #hd{ > margin:10px 0px;font-weight: bold;font- size:78%; line-height: 122%;} > #ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc .ad{ > margin-bottom: 10px;padding: 0 0;} > --> > > > > <!-- > > #ygrp-mlmsg {font-size:13px; font-family: arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;} > #ygrp-mlmsg table {font-size:inherit; font:100% ;} > #ygrp-mlmsg select, input, textarea {font:99% arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;} > #ygrp-mlmsg pre, code {font:115% monospace;} > #ygrp-mlmsg * {line-height: 1.22em;} > #ygrp-text{ > font-family: Georgia; > } > #ygrp-text p{ > margin:0 0 1em 0;} > #ygrp-tpmsgs{ > font-family: Arial; > clear:both;} > #ygrp-vitnav{ > padding-top: 10px;font- family:Verdana; font-size: 77%;margin: 0;} > #ygrp-vitnav a{ > padding:0 1px;} > #ygrp-actbar{ > clear:both;margin: 25px 0;white-space: nowrap;color: #666;text- align:right; } > #ygrp-actbar .left{ > float:left;white- space:nowrap; } > .bld{font-weight: bold;} > #ygrp-grft{ > font-family: Verdana;font- size:77%; padding:15px 0;} > #ygrp-ft{ > font-family: verdana;font- size:77%; border-top: 1px solid #666; > padding:5px 0; > } > #ygrp-mlmsg #logo{ > padding-bottom: 10px;} > > #ygrp-vital{ > background-color: #e0ecee;margin- bottom:20px; padding:2px 0 8px 8px;} > #ygrp-vital #vithd{ > font-size:77% ;font-family: Verdana;font- weight:bold; color:#333; text- transform:uppercase ;} > #ygrp-vital ul{ > padding:0;margin: 2px 0;} > #ygrp-vital ul li{ > list-style-type: none;clear: both;border: 1px solid #e0ecee; > } > #ygrp-vital ul li .ct{ > font-weight: bold;color: #ff7900;float: right;width: 2em;text- align:right; padding-right: .5em;} > #ygrp-vital ul li .cat{ > font-weight: bold;} > #ygrp-vital a{ > text-decoration: none;} > > #ygrp-vital a:hover{ > text-decoration: underline; } > > #ygrp-sponsor #hd{ > color:#999;font- size:77%; } > #ygrp-sponsor #ov{ > padding:6px 13px;background- color:#e0ecee; margin-bottom: 20px;} > #ygrp-sponsor #ov ul{ > padding:0 0 0 8px;margin:0; } > #ygrp-sponsor #ov li{ > list-style-type: square;padding: 6px 0;font-size: 77%;} > #ygrp-sponsor #ov li a{ > text-decoration: none;font- size:130% ;} > #ygrp-sponsor #nc{ > background-color: #eee;margin- bottom:20px; padding:0 8px;} > #ygrp-sponsor .ad{ > padding:8px 0;} > #ygrp-sponsor .ad #hd1{ > font-family: Arial;font- weight:bold; color:#628c2a; font- size:100%;line- height:122% ;} > #ygrp-sponsor .ad a{ > text-decoration: none;} > #ygrp-sponsor .ad a:hover{ > text-decoration: underline; } > #ygrp-sponsor .ad p{ > margin:0;} > o{font-size: 0;} > .MsoNormal{ > margin:0 0 0 0;} > #ygrp-text tt{ > font-size:120% ;} > blockquote{margin: 0 0 0 4px;} > .replbq{margin: 4;} > --> > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ > Want ideas for reducing your carbon footprint? Visit For Good http://uk.promotion s./ forgood/environm ent.html > Answers - Get better answers from someone who knows. Try it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 25, 2007 Report Share Posted October 25, 2007 Dear Shastri ji, I know well that the notoriously famous huge numbers used in Yuga are irrelevant if considered as 'human years'; but know that those numbers ARE a solution to a mathematical problem in Sidhantic texts - i.e. They provide a common zero point for the planetary movements - in this way it is a mathematical solution to a theoretical problem. This is rightly mentioined by you in the following words - ==> > Further, I mentioned that the total of the four yugas is the LCM of > the planetary movement through the cosmos and is the basis of yuga > calculations. Remember creation is cyclic and this is where the > concept of Mahayug, Manvanatar and Kalp comes in. <== Another related thing is that instead of 'human years' those numbers might be representing the 'seconds' in the zodiac circle - or in other words it is not necessary that those numbers should indelicate 'human years' itself as believed to be by the common mass. To know what I mean refer to the following document present in the files section. Chandra% 20Hari/Basics_of_the_Ayanamsa_Dispute.doc There is another cute observation - 1) Most of the hindu sidhantic texts advocate the 1:2:3:4 proportion between Yuga numbers. BUT 2) The Jain sidhantic text called 'Aryabhateya' proposes 1:1:1:1 proportion between the yuga numbers. i.e. As per this system the duration of all the 4 yugas are the same. Love, Sreenadh , Amitabh Shastri <amitabh_shastri wrote: > > Dear Sreenadh, > > It appears you misunderstood the context of the mail. Without going into the details of precession and other relevant aspects, I merely wished to mention the duration of each yuga and their relative relationship as it appears in the texts. > > If this duration be right, Treta Yuga ended approximately 869,000 (864,000+5000) years ago. That would point to the dating of Ramayana! Research, however, do not consider this as a possibility - anthropological research dates homo-sapien to be only 250,000 years!!! > > Further, I mentioned that the total of the four yugas is the LCM of the planetary movement through the cosmos and is the basis of yuga calculations. Remember creation is cyclic and this is where the concept of Mahayug, Manvanatar and Kalp comes in. > > Best wishes, > Amitabh Shastri > > > Sreenadh <sreesog > > Wednesday, 24 October, 2007 6:05:30 PM > Re: Yuga system > > Hi Kaul ji and all, > > I am of the opinion that " If not representing the precession > > minutes and seconds, if not useful for arriving at concrete > > calculation results related to planetary movements, the Yuga numbers > > are useless and misleading " . > > * We know for sure that the Yuga numbers helped the ancient > > astronomers very much in " arriving at concrete calculation results > > related to planetary movements " . > > * The latest argument related to yuga numbers is that " it points to > > precession minutes and seconds, and seems to be valid " . > > * Yuga concept seems to be a mathematical solution to some well > > known problems. > > It could be the lack of understanding of later day scholars that > > might have caused the lose of basic logic behind the yuga number > > determination and use. > > Love, > > Sreenadh > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, Amitabh Shastri > > <amitabh_shastri@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Kaulji, > > > > > > My two cents on this. > > > > > > It has long been advocated that the life of > > > Kaliyug is 432,000 years. The previous yugas were in simple > > multiples > > > of this basic figure. Thus Dwapar, Treta and Satyug were 2, 3 and 4 > > > times respectively. Thus the total age of a Mahayug comprising of > > one > > > cycle of Sat, Treta, Dwapar and Kaliyug has been said to be > > 4,320,000 > > > years and it has been said that this is the LCM of planetary > > movement > > > through the cosmos; i.e. planets would return to the same position > > > after this period or one cycle of their movement would be completed. > > > This is one of the fundamental concept of time advocated in our > > ancient > > > scriptures. > > > > > > This period, I recall reading somewhere (regret do not remember the > > source), relates to the degree of truthful nature or so called > > religiousness of mankind, in general. Thus in each yuga it is 100, > > 75, 50 and 25 percents respectively commencing from Satyuga. > > > > > > While > > > I do not dispute the scientific fats about the Ice Age, unwritten > > history etc, my query is > > > with regard to the positions mentioned by Maharshi Valmiki. Did he > > give all planetary positions for an event? The learned scholars may > > be able to shed some > > > light on this aspect. > > > > > > Excavations off Dwarka coast in Gujarat have been > > > dated to be around 3000 years old and we are said be around 5000 > > years into Kaliyug. This, fortunately, is widely accepted by all... > > > > > > Vedas for long have been Shruti and Smriti texts followed by > > Brahmans. Aranyaks, Vedangas etc. Puranic texts are of much later > > date and are more historical in nature! > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > Amitabh Shastri > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved@ ..> > > > ancient_indian_ astrology > > > Tuesday, 23 October, 2007 10:34:55 PM > > > [ancient_indian_ astrology] Fwd: Re: [VRI] We are > > celebrating all our festivals on wrong days! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > HinduCalendar, " Avtar Krishen > > Kaul " > > > > > > <jyotirved@ ..> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Shri V V Ramanji, > > > > > > Namaskar! > > > > > > <On the basis of current astronomy, it is difficult to imagine that > > > > > > in the Treta Yuga (several hundred thousand years ago) we had the > > > > > > same stellar and planetary configurations and so the same calendar > > > > > > as now> > > > > > > > > > > > > This yuga business has left me more confused than anything else! > > > > > > > > > > > > The Surya Sidhana tells us that the present Kaliyuga started on > > > > > > February 17/18, 3102 BCE at midnight at Ujjain. Dwapara yuga was > > > > > > supposed to have lasted for 864,000 years prior to that! Treta > > > > > > Yuga " ruled " for 1,296,000 years before that and of course, Satya > > > > > > Yuga " regined " for 1,728,000 before Treta Yuga! > > > > > > > > > > > > Kaliyuga is supposed to last for 4,320,000 years! > > > > > > > > > > > > It means that the Rig Veda etc. must have been revealed several > > > > > > million years back since that is supposed to be the earliest Veda > > as > > > > > > per the Pauranic lore! > > > > > > > > > > > > Archaeological evidence, on the other hand, points out that > > > > > > no " written word " prior to about 7000 BC is available in any > > > > > > civilization! > > > > > > > > > > > > Similarly, as you must have seen from the posts of " Vedic > > > > > > atrologers " and " Vedic astronomers " Bhagwan Ram could have > > > > > > incarnated any time between 1000 BC and 7500 BC at the most! > > > > > > Surprisingly, all of them quote the same Valmiki Ramayana as their > > > > > > source of information! > > > > > > > > > > > > The Valmiki Ramayana, Gita Press edition, on the other hand, talks > > > > > > of Dasharatha having reigned for about 60,000 years whereas Bhagwan > > > > > > Ram reigned for about ten thousand years! Thus if we believe > > > > > > our " Vedic astrologers " , then Bhagwan Ram is still hiding > > somehwere > > > > > > since if He Incarnated in 7500 BC (the earliest!) then there are > > > > > > still five hundred years of His rule left! > > > > > > > > > > > > I do not know whether He is ruling through proxies like George W. > > > > > > Bush or Dr. Manmohan Singh etc., but certainly I do not find > > > > > > anything like Rama Rajya these days! Qualitatively, it is more > > like > > > > > > Ravana-Rajya, though, since the fisticuffs in Assemblies and > > > > > > Parlimaent between the " Raja-Purashas " would put even the > > > > > > Ahiravanas and Mahiravanas to shame! > > > > > > > > > > > > I only hope I have not confused you also just as I am confused! > > > > > > Maybe you can help me overcome such a confusion! > > > > > > With regards, > > > > > > Avtar Krishen Kaul > > > > > > > > > > > > HinduCalendar, " V. V. Raman " <vvrsps@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On the basis of current astronomy, it is difficult to imagine > > that > > > > > > in the Treta Yuga (several hundred thousand years ago) we had the > > > > > > same > > > > > > stellar and planetary configurations and so the same calendar as > > now. > > > > > > > I am wondering if this can be regarded as a valid concern. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > V. V. Raman > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 30, 2007 Report Share Posted October 30, 2007 Shri Sreenadh ji, Namaskar! < * The latest argument related to yuga numbers is that " it points to precession minutes and seconds, and seems to be valid " .> I wish the Indian sidhantakaras like Maya, or Aryabhata or Brahmagupta etc. etc. prior to Munjala i.e. tenth century AD had some idea about precession! Though Hipparcus of Nicea came to know about it in second century BCE, yet it did not percolate down to Indian sidhanta-kars till Munjala woke up to the situation! However, as has been the favourite pastime of jyotishis, Munjala's findings were just ignored/supresed after following them for about a couple of centuries since those jyotishis did not want to go agaisnt the dictats of Maya the mlechha, who was Surya Bhagwan personified according to them! Thus those sidhanta-makers were really blind like bats for any astronomical development and continued to circumambulate around Surya Sidhanta! However, let me hasten to add with all the emphasis at my command that during the Vedic period, the real Vamadevas were certainly aware of all such phenomena of precession etc. For example, if at some point of time it has been said in the Vedas " krittikasu agnim adadeeta.... " i.e. " one must get consecrated in Krittkas since they do not deviate from the East whereas all the other stars deviate... " at other points of time other nakshatras have been extolled. It was so only becasue the Vernal Equinox was in Krittikas then. However, Krittikas (Pleiades) being a very cosnpicuous and a large group in the constellation Taurus, the Vernal Equinox seems to have been moving in and around that nakshatra for considerable period! That is why we find the Yajur Veda, Vedanga Jyotisha, the Yajur Jyotisha and also the Atharva-jyotiha starting from a nakshatra presided over by Agni i.e. krittika. We do not find any mention of any Mesha etc. Rashis in any of the Vedas since real Vamadevas were no jyotishis and that is why they were real Rishis and that is why they did not require the cesspool of rashi garbage/sewage as was the case with Babylon and several other countries! Our i.e. Vedic calendar months were Madhu/Chaitra, Madhava/Vaishkaha etc. besides the Ayanas etc. -- the most scientific and holistic apporach to calendar making! It was a marvellous combination of luni-solar months! Lunar Magha Shukla would start only after the solar Magha had started in the real sense i.e. immeidately on the day of the Uttarayana! However, with the advent of Greeks things changed drastically! It was Varahamihira the worst charlatan who lost his claim to being called a Rishi because he ran after predictive gimmicks and created a fear psychosis in the minds of common man by resorting to gimmickery of " diasha-daha " and " dik-shoola " etc. etc. in his Brihat Samhita etc. It is for the omissions and commissions of Varhamihira the charlatan and Maya the mlechha that we are still running after a surya sidhanta year -- i.e. Lahiri year or Ramana year or even Muladhara year etc. etc. With regards, Avtar Krishen Kaul , " Sreenadh " <sreesog wrote: > > Hi Kaul ji and all, > I am of the opinion that " If not representing the precession > minutes and seconds, if not useful for arriving at concrete > calculation results related to planetary movements, the Yuga numbers > are useless and misleading " . > * We know for sure that the Yuga numbers helped the ancient > astronomers very much in " arriving at concrete calculation results > related to planetary movements " . > * The latest argument related to yuga numbers is that " it points to > precession minutes and seconds, and seems to be valid " . > * Yuga concept seems to be a mathematical solution to some well > known problems. > It could be the lack of understanding of later day scholars that > might have caused the lose of basic logic behind the yuga number > determination and use. > Love, > Sreenadh > > , Amitabh Shastri > <amitabh_shastri@> wrote: > > > > Dear Kaulji, > > > > My two cents on this. > > > > It has long been advocated that the life of > > Kaliyug is 432,000 years. The previous yugas were in simple > multiples > > of this basic figure. Thus Dwapar, Treta and Satyug were 2, 3 and 4 > > times respectively. Thus the total age of a Mahayug comprising of > one > > cycle of Sat, Treta, Dwapar and Kaliyug has been said to be > 4,320,000 > > years and it has been said that this is the LCM of planetary > movement > > through the cosmos; i.e. planets would return to the same position > > after this period or one cycle of their movement would be completed. > > This is one of the fundamental concept of time advocated in our > ancient > > scriptures. > > > > This period, I recall reading somewhere (regret do not remember the > source), relates to the degree of truthful nature or so called > religiousness of mankind, in general. Thus in each yuga it is 100, > 75, 50 and 25 percents respectively commencing from Satyuga. > > > > While > > I do not dispute the scientific fats about the Ice Age, unwritten > history etc, my query is > > with regard to the positions mentioned by Maharshi Valmiki. Did he > give all planetary positions for an event? The learned scholars may > be able to shed some > > light on this aspect. > > > > Excavations off Dwarka coast in Gujarat have been > > dated to be around 3000 years old and we are said be around 5000 > years into Kaliyug. This, fortunately, is widely accepted by all... > > > > Vedas for long have been Shruti and Smriti texts followed by > Brahmans. Aranyaks, Vedangas etc. Puranic texts are of much later > date and are more historical in nature! > > > > > > > > Regards, > > Amitabh Shastri > > > > > > > > > > Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved@> > > > > Tuesday, 23 October, 2007 10:34:55 PM > > Fwd: Re: [VRI] We are > celebrating all our festivals on wrong days! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > HinduCalendar, " Avtar Krishen > Kaul " > > > > <jyotirved@ ..> wrote: > > > > > > > > Shri V V Ramanji, > > > > Namaskar! > > > > <On the basis of current astronomy, it is difficult to imagine that > > > > in the Treta Yuga (several hundred thousand years ago) we had the > > > > same stellar and planetary configurations and so the same calendar > > > > as now> > > > > > > > > This yuga business has left me more confused than anything else! > > > > > > > > The Surya Sidhana tells us that the present Kaliyuga started on > > > > February 17/18, 3102 BCE at midnight at Ujjain. Dwapara yuga was > > > > supposed to have lasted for 864,000 years prior to that! Treta > > > > Yuga " ruled " for 1,296,000 years before that and of course, Satya > > > > Yuga " regined " for 1,728,000 before Treta Yuga! > > > > > > > > Kaliyuga is supposed to last for 4,320,000 years! > > > > > > > > It means that the Rig Veda etc. must have been revealed several > > > > million years back since that is supposed to be the earliest Veda > as > > > > per the Pauranic lore! > > > > > > > > Archaeological evidence, on the other hand, points out that > > > > no " written word " prior to about 7000 BC is available in any > > > > civilization! > > > > > > > > Similarly, as you must have seen from the posts of " Vedic > > > > atrologers " and " Vedic astronomers " Bhagwan Ram could have > > > > incarnated any time between 1000 BC and 7500 BC at the most! > > > > Surprisingly, all of them quote the same Valmiki Ramayana as their > > > > source of information! > > > > > > > > The Valmiki Ramayana, Gita Press edition, on the other hand, talks > > > > of Dasharatha having reigned for about 60,000 years whereas Bhagwan > > > > Ram reigned for about ten thousand years! Thus if we believe > > > > our " Vedic astrologers " , then Bhagwan Ram is still hiding > somehwere > > > > since if He Incarnated in 7500 BC (the earliest!) then there are > > > > still five hundred years of His rule left! > > > > > > > > I do not know whether He is ruling through proxies like George W. > > > > Bush or Dr. Manmohan Singh etc., but certainly I do not find > > > > anything like Rama Rajya these days! Qualitatively, it is more > like > > > > Ravana-Rajya, though, since the fisticuffs in Assemblies and > > > > Parlimaent between the " Raja-Purashas " would put even the > > > > Ahiravanas and Mahiravanas to shame! > > > > > > > > I only hope I have not confused you also just as I am confused! > > > > Maybe you can help me overcome such a confusion! > > > > With regards, > > > > Avtar Krishen Kaul > > > > > > > > HinduCalendar, " V. V. Raman " <vvrsps@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > On the basis of current astronomy, it is difficult to imagine > that > > > > in the Treta Yuga (several hundred thousand years ago) we had the > > > > same > > > > stellar and planetary configurations and so the same calendar as > now. > > > > > I am wondering if this can be regarded as a valid concern. > > > > > > > > > > V. V. Raman > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- End forwarded message --- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <!-- > > > > #ygrp-mkp{ > > border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:14px > 0px;padding:0px 14px;} > > #ygrp-mkp hr{ > > border:1px solid #d8d8d8;} > > #ygrp-mkp #hd{ > > color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:bold;line- > height:122%;margin:10px 0px;} > > #ygrp-mkp #ads{ > > margin-bottom:10px;} > > #ygrp-mkp .ad{ > > padding:0 0;} > > #ygrp-mkp .ad a{ > > color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;} > > --> > > > > > > > > <!-- > > > > #ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc{ > > font-family:Arial;} > > #ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc #hd{ > > margin:10px 0px;font-weight:bold;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;} > > #ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc .ad{ > > margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 0;} > > --> > > > > > > > > <!-- > > > > #ygrp-mlmsg {font-size:13px;font-family:arial, helvetica, clean, > sans-serif;} > > #ygrp-mlmsg table {font-size:inherit;font:100%;} > > #ygrp-mlmsg select, input, textarea {font:99% arial, helvetica, > clean, sans-serif;} > > #ygrp-mlmsg pre, code {font:115% monospace;} > > #ygrp-mlmsg * {line-height:1.22em;} > > #ygrp-text{ > > font-family:Georgia; > > } > > #ygrp-text p{ > > margin:0 0 1em 0;} > > #ygrp-tpmsgs{ > > font-family:Arial; > > clear:both;} > > #ygrp-vitnav{ > > padding-top:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-size:77%;margin:0;} > > #ygrp-vitnav a{ > > padding:0 1px;} > > #ygrp-actbar{ > > clear:both;margin:25px 0;white-space:nowrap;color:#666;text- > align:right;} > > #ygrp-actbar .left{ > > float:left;white-space:nowrap;} > > .bld{font-weight:bold;} > > #ygrp-grft{ > > font-family:Verdana;font-size:77%;padding:15px 0;} > > #ygrp-ft{ > > font-family:verdana;font-size:77%;border-top:1px solid #666; > > padding:5px 0; > > } > > #ygrp-mlmsg #logo{ > > padding-bottom:10px;} > > > > #ygrp-vital{ > > background-color:#e0ecee;margin-bottom:20px;padding:2px 0 8px 8px;} > > #ygrp-vital #vithd{ > > font-size:77%;font-family:Verdana;font- weight:bold;color:#333;text- > transform:uppercase;} > > #ygrp-vital ul{ > > padding:0;margin:2px 0;} > > #ygrp-vital ul li{ > > list-style-type:none;clear:both;border:1px solid #e0ecee; > > } > > #ygrp-vital ul li .ct{ > > font-weight:bold;color:#ff7900;float:right;width:2em;text- > align:right;padding-right:.5em;} > > #ygrp-vital ul li .cat{ > > font-weight:bold;} > > #ygrp-vital a{ > > text-decoration:none;} > > > > #ygrp-vital a:hover{ > > text-decoration:underline;} > > > > #ygrp-sponsor #hd{ > > color:#999;font-size:77%;} > > #ygrp-sponsor #ov{ > > padding:6px 13px;background-color:#e0ecee;margin-bottom:20px;} > > #ygrp-sponsor #ov ul{ > > padding:0 0 0 8px;margin:0;} > > #ygrp-sponsor #ov li{ > > list-style-type:square;padding:6px 0;font-size:77%;} > > #ygrp-sponsor #ov li a{ > > text-decoration:none;font-size:130%;} > > #ygrp-sponsor #nc{ > > background-color:#eee;margin-bottom:20px;padding:0 8px;} > > #ygrp-sponsor .ad{ > > padding:8px 0;} > > #ygrp-sponsor .ad #hd1{ > > font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold;color:#628c2a;font- > size:100%;line-height:122%;} > > #ygrp-sponsor .ad a{ > > text-decoration:none;} > > #ygrp-sponsor .ad a:hover{ > > text-decoration:underline;} > > #ygrp-sponsor .ad p{ > > margin:0;} > > o{font-size:0;} > > .MsoNormal{ > > margin:0 0 0 0;} > > #ygrp-text tt{ > > font-size:120%;} > > blockquote{margin:0 0 0 4px;} > > .replbq{margin:4;} > > --> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________ > > Want ideas for reducing your carbon footprint? 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Guest guest Posted October 31, 2007 Report Share Posted October 31, 2007 HinduCalendar , " Avtar Krishen Kaul " <jyotirved wrote: Shri Sunil Bhattacharjyaji, Namaskar! There has aleady been a lot of dicussion about " mlechhas " and " asuras " on this forum. Why I call Maya a mlechha will be clear from post No. 1444 which was repeated later seveal times! IMHO Asuras are worse than mlechhas since we must not forgt that Ravana was an asura and we burn his effigy every year! Thus if you want to burn the effigy of Maya the compiler of the Surya Sidhanta also every year, I will join you with relish in the bonfire! Besides, the Gita also has said: " Daivi sampat vimokshyay, vinashay asuree mata " i.e. the qualities of suras lead towards emancipation whereas the qualities of asuras towards annihilation! Maybe you are right in caling Maya an Asura since he has robbed us of our common-sense as well as dharma because we are celebrating all our festivals on worng days and also believing the astro hocus-pocus! With regards, AKK HinduCalendar , Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya@> wrote: > > Dear Avtar Kishenji, > > Namaste, > > I have one request. Can you kindly refer to Mayasura as Mayasura rather than calling him Mleccha every time? As far as my knowledge goes the " Asura " is not synonymous with " Mleccha " and I hope my Vedic- scholar-friends are with me on this point. Etymologically the Mlecccha does not have the refinement or polish that is in an Arya . But the Asuras in veda have the status of the devas. Correct me if I am wrong and you may quote from the Vedas if you like. > > Regards, > > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya > > > > Avtar Krishen Kaul <jyotirved@> > hinducalendar > Tuesday, October 30, 2007 9:06:12 PM > [HinduCalendar] Fwd: Re: Yuga system > > ancient_indian_ astrology, " Avtar Krishen > Kaul " <jyotirved@ ..> wrote: > > Shri Sreenadh ji, > Namaskar! > < * The latest argument related to yuga numbers is that " it points > to precession minutes and seconds, and seems to be valid " .> > > I wish the Indian sidhantakaras like Maya, or Aryabhata or > Brahmagupta etc. etc. prior to Munjala i.e. tenth century AD had > some idea about precession! Though Hipparcus of Nicea came to know > about it in second century BCE, yet it did not percolate down to > Indian sidhanta-kars till Munjala woke up to the situation! > However, as has been the favourite pastime of jyotishis, Munjala's > findings were just ignored/supresed after following them for about a > couple of centuries since those jyotishis did not want to go agaisnt > the dictats of Maya the mlechha, who was Surya Bhagwan personified > according to them! Thus those sidhanta-makers were really blind > like bats for any astronomical development and continued to > circumambulate around Surya Sidhanta! > > However, let me hasten to add with all the emphasis at my command > that during the Vedic period, the real Vamadevas were certainly > aware of all such phenomena of precession etc. For example, if at > some point of time it has been said in the Vedas " krittikasu agnim > adadeeta.... " i.e. " one must get consecrated in Krittkas since they > do not deviate from the East whereas all the other stars deviate... " > at other points of time other nakshatras have been extolled. It was > so only becasue the Vernal Equinox was in Krittikas then. > However, Krittikas (Pleiades) being a very cosnpicuous and a large > group in the constellation Taurus, the Vernal Equinox seems to have > been moving in and around that nakshatra for considerable period! > That is why we find the Yajur Veda, Vedanga Jyotisha, the Yajur > Jyotisha and also the Atharva-jyotiha starting from a nakshatra > presided over by Agni i.e. krittika. > > We do not find any mention of any Mesha etc. Rashis in any of the > Vedas since real Vamadevas were no jyotishis and that is why they > were real Rishis and that is why they did not require the cesspool > of rashi garbage/sewage as was the case with Babylon and several > other countries! Our i.e. Vedic calendar months were Madhu/Chaitra, > Madhava/Vaishkaha etc. besides the Ayanas etc. -- the most > scientific and holistic apporach to calendar making! It was a > marvellous combination of luni-solar months! Lunar Magha Shukla > would start only after the solar Magha had started in the real sense > i.e. immeidately on the day of the Uttarayana! > > However, with the advent of Greeks things changed drastically! It > was Varahamihira the worst charlatan who lost his claim to being > called a Rishi because he ran after predictive gimmicks and created > a fear psychosis in the minds of common man by resorting to > gimmickery of " diasha-daha " and " dik-shoola " etc. etc. in his Brihat > Samhita etc. > It is for the omissions and commissions of Varhamihira the charlatan > and Maya the mlechha that we are still running after a surya > sidhanta year -- i.e. Lahiri year or Ramana year or even Muladhara > year etc. etc. > With regards, > Avtar Krishen Kaul > ancient_indian_ astrology, " Sreenadh " > <sreesog@> wrote: > > > > Hi Kaul ji and all, > --- End forwarded message --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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