Guest guest Posted December 3, 2007 Report Share Posted December 3, 2007 Dear Jagdish ji and Srinivas ji, Being an astrology group, I have a simple question - Is there ANY Rishi hora slokas (astrological quotes) that supports Karma theory before the laghu jataka (attributed to Mihira) which reads 'Edupachitam anya janmani ..... " etc. The point I want to emphasize is there is NO Rishi Hora sloka that support Karma theory available! As per astrology - time is the cause behind; As per Vedanta it is Karma theory; As per Ayurveda it is the innate nature; as per Sankhya it is Purusha - and so on. The various knowledge branches had there own philosophical approach (and astrology has its own unique philosophical approach for sure) - and the mixing of adopted theories such as Karma theory into astrology is NOT in tune with the vision of the sages who wrote Horas on astrology - this is my opinion. Note: If we want to follow Rishi horas we may have to drop Karma theory. Love and regards, Sreenadh , Prathamesn Chawan <upaoakcrest wrote: > > Dear Srinivas Ji > > Greetings > > > Lord Krishna had fatal attacks on his life. Krishna was a lord itself. What karma he did in his last life (which is not there) so that he got such a dangerous childhood ? > > What karma Jesus did ? He suffered a lot. > > Well, who made this karma or came up with this concept of Karma ? What was his desire ? If its God, then what does he want from human being ? > > Even if we believe that Karma theory ( supported by Gita) is true then it means that we are slave of a rule. Who made us slave of the rule ? > > There are many more question in my mind to ask you. Well, i am asking because of my planetary positions (19:13, Ghaziabad - UP, 25- August-1981). > > I think a lot on all these questions and try to justify or counter-argue with myself on these question. But never got a satisfied reason. > > Thanks > > Jagdish > > > > Sreenadh <sreesog wrote: Dear Srinivas ji, > ==> > > karma burning .... > <== > I wonder - is it some thing like Firewood?! :=) > Love and hugs, > Sreenadh > > , " sreeram srinivas " > <sreeram64@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Chawan saab, > > > > I respect your views and hence the pleasure of disagreeing with > > you....!!....Going by your logics, one can put lot of excuses to one's > > Boss in office....!!! and stand a sure chance of losing the job....!!! > > > > Well not everything is destiny.....for ordinary mortals - yes who are > > resigned to fate, for those with a thinking mind....it is not so.....!! > > > > Everything is cause and reaction......and upholding of dharma....!! In > > mahabharat...Lord Krishna instructs Arjun... - you duty is to shoot > > arrows......to ensure that the arrows hit the enemy is my job..... to > > upload dharma in daily life is one's prerogative......the examples you > > have are in principle are bad {using a milder word !!}....to stop the > > karmic cycle....by perpetuating the reaction is where the real karma or > > dharma lies.... > > > > Kindly read the hindu scriptures in english language shall provide the > > weblinks on it tomorrow...the karmic law cannot be overruled even by > > great saints....it has to be satisfied.....prayers & guru's help in > > overcoming it...or advanced yogis, transfer the karma on to themselves > > through yogic methods to protect their disciples......does Jesus really > > deserve the type of crucification death...??? for his simple > > preachings....surely NOT > > > > Normally the karma burning is very slow for ordinary people...but people > > who are already on dharma....it burns must faster...hurdles are > > more....you are repaying your debts of next life now itself.....!! see > > my karma accounting theories in the archives..... > > > > ....got to for dinner...getting late...will continue tomorrow.....on > > this....consider this as part-1 > > > > with regards > > > > sreeram srinivas > > > > > > > > > > , Prathamesn Chawan > > <upaoakcrest@> wrote: > > > > I feel more sorry if someone proves that astrology is 100% true. I > > havent got the answer of this question so far. If astrology is 100% true > > then an able astrologer can predict everything about your future. If > > that happens then there is nothing good or bad or evil. > > > > A rapist is as good as a the victim. Rapist was supposed to rape > > according to planetary conditions in his chart and victim was supposed > > to be victim according to her chart. It means Harshad Mehta, > > Daud-Abrahim, Chotta Shakil and all the people from underworld or > > indulge in illegal activities are not bad. They are acting as they are > > destined. > > > > A husband who beats his wife daily is not a bad person. Wife was > > destined to suffer and husband was supposed to be the aggresive and > > voilent ? > > > > Can anyone tell me how much is in human hand and how much is in the hand > > of destiny ? After reading many books of K. N. Rao, i feel that its all > > destiny. > > > > > > Thanks > > > > Jagdish > > > Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make your homepage. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 4, 2007 Report Share Posted December 4, 2007 Dear Sreenadh, I think your observation is not correct. Karma theory is fundamental to astrology. What is time? Time is an illusion. How time operates? Time is constituted of the 5 tattvas and bhutas in successive micro and macro levels (terminology is difficult to mind) and the Bhuta -ghatana imparts special qualities for moments which reflect destiny. Karma is the factor that decides Bhuta-ghatana and Karma catches up with the individual through breath which has a specific bhuta or tattva pattern. Because of the above reason, first breath or cry is the true birth time. First cry is the siren of Karma- Prarabdham for which horoscope is made. chandra hari , "Sreenadh" <sreesog wrote:>> Dear Jagdish ji and Srinivas ji,> Being an astrology group, I have a simple question - Is there ANY > Rishi hora slokas (astrological quotes) that supports Karma theory > before the laghu jataka (attributed to Mihira) which > reads 'Edupachitam anya janmani ....." etc. The point I want to > emphasize is there is NO Rishi Hora sloka that support Karma theory > available! > As per astrology - time is the cause behind; As per Vedanta it is > Karma theory; As per Ayurveda it is the innate nature; as per Sankhya > it is Purusha - and so on. The various knowledge branches had there > own philosophical approach (and astrology has its own unique > philosophical approach for sure) - and the mixing of adopted theories > such as Karma theory into astrology is NOT in tune with the vision of > the sages who wrote Horas on astrology - this is my opinion.> Note: If we want to follow Rishi horas we may have to drop Karma > theory. > Love and regards,> Sreenadh> > , Prathamesn Chawan > upaoakcrest@ wrote:> >> > Dear Srinivas Ji> > > > Greetings> > > > > > Lord Krishna had fatal attacks on his life. Krishna was a lord > itself. What karma he did in his last life (which is not there) so > that he got such a dangerous childhood ?> > > > What karma Jesus did ? He suffered a lot. > > > > Well, who made this karma or came up with this concept of Karma ? > What was his desire ? If its God, then what does he want from human > being ? > > > > Even if we believe that Karma theory ( supported by Gita) is true > then it means that we are slave of a rule. Who made us slave of the > rule ? > > > > There are many more question in my mind to ask you. Well, i am > asking because of my planetary positions (19:13, Ghaziabad - UP, 25-> August-1981).> > > > I think a lot on all these questions and try to justify or > counter-argue with myself on these question. But never got a > satisfied reason. > > > > Thanks> > > > Jagdish> > > > > > > > Sreenadh sreesog@ wrote: Dear Srinivas ji,> > ==>> > > karma burning ....> > <==> > I wonder - is it some thing like Firewood?! :=)> > Love and hugs,> > Sreenadh> > > > , "sreeram srinivas"> > <sreeram64@> wrote:> > >> > > > > > Dear Chawan saab,> > > > > > I respect your views and hence the pleasure of disagreeing with> > > you....!!....Going by your logics, one can put lot of excuses to > one's> > > Boss in office....!!! and stand a sure chance of losing the > job....!!!> > > > > > Well not everything is destiny.....for ordinary mortals - yes who > are> > > resigned to fate, for those with a thinking mind....it is not > so.....!!> > > > > > Everything is cause and reaction......and upholding of > dharma....!! In> > > mahabharat...Lord Krishna instructs Arjun... - you duty is to > shoot> > > arrows......to ensure that the arrows hit the enemy is my > job..... to> > > upload dharma in daily life is one's prerogative......the > examples you> > > have are in principle are bad {using a milder word !!}....to stop > the> > > karmic cycle....by perpetuating the reaction is where the real > karma or> > > dharma lies....> > > > > > Kindly read the hindu scriptures in english language shall > provide the> > > weblinks on it tomorrow...the karmic law cannot be overruled even > by> > > great saints....it has to be satisfied.....prayers & guru's help > in> > > overcoming it...or advanced yogis, transfer the karma on to > themselves> > > through yogic methods to protect their disciples......does Jesus > really> > > deserve the type of crucification death...??? for his simple> > > preachings....surely NOT> > > > > > Normally the karma burning is very slow for ordinary people...but > people> > > who are already on dharma....it burns must faster...hurdles are> > > more....you are repaying your debts of next life now > itself.....!! see> > > my karma accounting theories in the archives.....> > > > > > ....got to for dinner...getting late...will continue > tomorrow.....on> > > this....consider this as part-1> > > > > > with regards> > > > > > sreeram srinivas> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Prathamesn Chawan> > > <upaoakcrest@> wrote:> > > > > > I feel more sorry if someone proves that astrology is 100% true. I> > > havent got the answer of this question so far. If astrology is > 100% true> > > then an able astrologer can predict everything about your future. > If> > > that happens then there is nothing good or bad or evil.> > > > > > A rapist is as good as a the victim. Rapist was supposed to rape> > > according to planetary conditions in his chart and victim was > supposed> > > to be victim according to her chart. It means Harshad Mehta,> > > Daud-Abrahim, Chotta Shakil and all the people from underworld or> > > indulge in illegal activities are not bad. They are acting as > they are> > > destined.> > > > > > A husband who beats his wife daily is not a bad person. Wife was> > > destined to suffer and husband was supposed to be the aggresive > and> > > voilent ?> > > > > > Can anyone tell me how much is in human hand and how much is in > the hand> > > of destiny ? After reading many books of K. N. Rao, i feel that > its all> > > destiny.> > > > > > > > > Thanks> > > > > > Jagdish> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make your > homepage.> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 4, 2007 Report Share Posted December 4, 2007 dear friends as rightly told by chandrahariji, karma theory is corroborated in almost all puranas and vedas and am happy to share references aplenty. on the contrary, sreenadhji may like to substantiate where the holy scriptures mention that a human is not responsible for his own actions, nay, he is a puppet with the strings in the hands of the planets and that all a human does is only because of the planets and not due to his past karmas. sreenadji may kindly corroborate his theory of humans fate or future depending squarely from the plaents. when we mention references from puranas, some people these days have started blaming the great english scholars who translated the holy puranas as having written thier own interpretations and not the real meaningas as the puranas written by the gods and the sages intended to convey. the late kashi maharaja has published few puranas in sanskrit with english translations funded by the ministry of education, government of india. from these very indian government supported puranas, i find the following theory from these puranas: -----------quote----------- lord yama says: whatever a human does is the consequence of his own deeds. the vital air lends consciousness to creatures and is made steady in the world and these creatures enjoy this air while performing both good and evil deeds. It is due to the past deeds that the sentient creatures experience death, bondage or discomforts during hundreds of births. the notion prevailing in the world that some external power promotes (or controls) the work is WRONG. whateve a man does is done by himself. as the sins of men gradually wear out, their good sense begins to exert itself. the falling propensity of men of evil tendencies born on earth goes away by the decaying of their evil deeds. the proneness to good or evil deeds is inherited by men from their past deeds and from past births. man perform good or evil deeds by themselves. ---------unquote---------- interestingly in the succeeding paras, giving planetary references, lord yama narrates how the humans can get rid of their sins through yoga and pranayama (and kundalini raising in modern parlance). it narrates how to see the seven planets in the seven chakra portions of the body and how by doing pranayama and seeing these planets in these portions of the body, one can get liberated of his sins. from the above, it is evidently clear that a man is not a puppet in the hands of the planets but is a doer of his own past deeds. above all the human has the power to win over the planets by yoga and pranayama by seeing (realising and aligning) the seven planets in the seven chakras. some yogis in the himalayas even today are demonstrating how to align with the five tatvas and control the pancha bhootas. with best wishes and blessings pandit arjun www.rudraksharemedy.com , " chandra_hari18 " <chandra_hari18 wrote: > > > Dear Sreenadh, > > I think your observation is not correct. Karma theory is fundamental to > astrology. What is time? Time is an illusion. How time operates? Time is > constituted of the 5 tattvas and bhutas in successive micro and macro > levels (terminology is difficult to mind) and the Bhuta -ghatana imparts > special qualities for moments which reflect destiny. Karma is the factor > that decides Bhuta-ghatana and Karma catches up with the individual > through breath which has a specific bhuta or tattva pattern. > > Because of the above reason, first breath or cry is the true birth time. > First cry is the siren of Karma- Prarabdham for which horoscope is made. > > chandra hari , " Sreenadh " > <sreesog@> wrote: > > > > Dear Jagdish ji and Srinivas ji, > > Being an astrology group, I have a simple question - Is there ANY > > Rishi hora slokas (astrological quotes) that supports Karma theory > > before the laghu jataka (attributed to Mihira) which > > reads 'Edupachitam anya janmani ..... " etc. The point I want to > > emphasize is there is NO Rishi Hora sloka that support Karma theory > > available! > > As per astrology - time is the cause behind; As per Vedanta it is > > Karma theory; As per Ayurveda it is the innate nature; as per Sankhya > > it is Purusha - and so on. The various knowledge branches had there > > own philosophical approach (and astrology has its own unique > > philosophical approach for sure) - and the mixing of adopted theories > > such as Karma theory into astrology is NOT in tune with the vision of > > the sages who wrote Horas on astrology - this is my opinion. > > Note: If we want to follow Rishi horas we may have to drop Karma > > theory. > > Love and regards, > > Sreenadh > > > > , Prathamesn Chawan > > upaoakcrest@ wrote: > > > > > > Dear Srinivas Ji > > > > > > Greetings > > > > > > > > > Lord Krishna had fatal attacks on his life. Krishna was a lord > > itself. What karma he did in his last life (which is not there) so > > that he got such a dangerous childhood ? > > > > > > What karma Jesus did ? He suffered a lot. > > > > > > Well, who made this karma or came up with this concept of Karma ? > > What was his desire ? If its God, then what does he want from human > > being ? > > > > > > Even if we believe that Karma theory ( supported by Gita) is true > > then it means that we are slave of a rule. Who made us slave of the > > rule ? > > > > > > There are many more question in my mind to ask you. Well, i am > > asking because of my planetary positions (19:13, Ghaziabad - UP, 25- > > August-1981). > > > > > > I think a lot on all these questions and try to justify or > > counter-argue with myself on these question. But never got a > > satisfied reason. > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > Jagdish > > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh sreesog@ wrote: Dear Srinivas ji, > > > ==> > > > > karma burning .... > > > <== > > > I wonder - is it some thing like Firewood?! :=) > > > Love and hugs, > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > , " sreeram srinivas " > > > <sreeram64@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Chawan saab, > > > > > > > > I respect your views and hence the pleasure of disagreeing with > > > > you....!!....Going by your logics, one can put lot of excuses to > > one's > > > > Boss in office....!!! and stand a sure chance of losing the > > job....!!! > > > > > > > > Well not everything is destiny.....for ordinary mortals - yes who > > are > > > > resigned to fate, for those with a thinking mind....it is not > > so.....!! > > > > > > > > Everything is cause and reaction......and upholding of > > dharma....!! In > > > > mahabharat...Lord Krishna instructs Arjun... - you duty is to > > shoot > > > > arrows......to ensure that the arrows hit the enemy is my > > job..... to > > > > upload dharma in daily life is one's prerogative......the > > examples you > > > > have are in principle are bad {using a milder word !!}....to stop > > the > > > > karmic cycle....by perpetuating the reaction is where the real > > karma or > > > > dharma lies.... > > > > > > > > Kindly read the hindu scriptures in english language shall > > provide the > > > > weblinks on it tomorrow...the karmic law cannot be overruled even > > by > > > > great saints....it has to be satisfied.....prayers & guru's help > > in > > > > overcoming it...or advanced yogis, transfer the karma on to > > themselves > > > > through yogic methods to protect their disciples......does Jesus > > really > > > > deserve the type of crucification death...??? for his simple > > > > preachings....surely NOT > > > > > > > > Normally the karma burning is very slow for ordinary people...but > > people > > > > who are already on dharma....it burns must faster...hurdles are > > > > more....you are repaying your debts of next life now > > itself.....!! see > > > > my karma accounting theories in the archives..... > > > > > > > > ....got to for dinner...getting late...will continue > > tomorrow.....on > > > > this....consider this as part-1 > > > > > > > > with regards > > > > > > > > sreeram srinivas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Prathamesn Chawan > > > > <upaoakcrest@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I feel more sorry if someone proves that astrology is 100% true. I > > > > havent got the answer of this question so far. If astrology is > > 100% true > > > > then an able astrologer can predict everything about your future. > > If > > > > that happens then there is nothing good or bad or evil. > > > > > > > > A rapist is as good as a the victim. Rapist was supposed to rape > > > > according to planetary conditions in his chart and victim was > > supposed > > > > to be victim according to her chart. It means Harshad Mehta, > > > > Daud-Abrahim, Chotta Shakil and all the people from underworld or > > > > indulge in illegal activities are not bad. They are acting as > > they are > > > > destined. > > > > > > > > A husband who beats his wife daily is not a bad person. Wife was > > > > destined to suffer and husband was supposed to be the aggresive > > and > > > > voilent ? > > > > > > > > Can anyone tell me how much is in human hand and how much is in > > the hand > > > > of destiny ? After reading many books of K. N. Rao, i feel that > > its all > > > > destiny. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > Jagdish > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make your > > homepage. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 4, 2007 Report Share Posted December 4, 2007 dear friend while your narration of time and how the time is measured is correct, to make a remark that time is illusion is not correct. time has been defined as measurable and quantifiable in our holy scriptures as well as the basic laws of physics according to science. just because it is only measurable and not seen, it cannot be called an illusion. the power or electricity that is produced in the power generation plans and transmitted through wires and enjoyed through utilities is not visible but is measurable like time. shall we say power is an illusion, no. with best wishes and blessings pandit arjun www.rudraksharemedy.com , " chandra_hari18 " <chandra_hari18 wrote: > > > Dear Sreenadh, > > I think your observation is not correct. Karma theory is fundamental to > astrology. What is time? Time is an illusion. How time operates? Time is > constituted of the 5 tattvas and bhutas in successive micro and macro > levels (terminology is difficult to mind) and the Bhuta -ghatana imparts > special qualities for moments which reflect destiny. Karma is the factor > that decides Bhuta-ghatana and Karma catches up with the individual > through breath which has a specific bhuta or tattva pattern. > > Because of the above reason, first breath or cry is the true birth time. > First cry is the siren of Karma- Prarabdham for which horoscope is made. > > chandra hari , " Sreenadh " > <sreesog@> wrote: > > > > Dear Jagdish ji and Srinivas ji, > > Being an astrology group, I have a simple question - Is there ANY > > Rishi hora slokas (astrological quotes) that supports Karma theory > > before the laghu jataka (attributed to Mihira) which > > reads 'Edupachitam anya janmani ..... " etc. The point I want to > > emphasize is there is NO Rishi Hora sloka that support Karma theory > > available! > > As per astrology - time is the cause behind; As per Vedanta it is > > Karma theory; As per Ayurveda it is the innate nature; as per Sankhya > > it is Purusha - and so on. The various knowledge branches had there > > own philosophical approach (and astrology has its own unique > > philosophical approach for sure) - and the mixing of adopted theories > > such as Karma theory into astrology is NOT in tune with the vision of > > the sages who wrote Horas on astrology - this is my opinion. > > Note: If we want to follow Rishi horas we may have to drop Karma > > theory. > > Love and regards, > > Sreenadh > > > > , Prathamesn Chawan > > upaoakcrest@ wrote: > > > > > > Dear Srinivas Ji > > > > > > Greetings > > > > > > > > > Lord Krishna had fatal attacks on his life. Krishna was a lord > > itself. What karma he did in his last life (which is not there) so > > that he got such a dangerous childhood ? > > > > > > What karma Jesus did ? He suffered a lot. > > > > > > Well, who made this karma or came up with this concept of Karma ? > > What was his desire ? If its God, then what does he want from human > > being ? > > > > > > Even if we believe that Karma theory ( supported by Gita) is true > > then it means that we are slave of a rule. Who made us slave of the > > rule ? > > > > > > There are many more question in my mind to ask you. Well, i am > > asking because of my planetary positions (19:13, Ghaziabad - UP, 25- > > August-1981). > > > > > > I think a lot on all these questions and try to justify or > > counter-argue with myself on these question. But never got a > > satisfied reason. > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > Jagdish > > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh sreesog@ wrote: Dear Srinivas ji, > > > ==> > > > > karma burning .... > > > <== > > > I wonder - is it some thing like Firewood?! :=) > > > Love and hugs, > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > , " sreeram srinivas " > > > <sreeram64@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Chawan saab, > > > > > > > > I respect your views and hence the pleasure of disagreeing with > > > > you....!!....Going by your logics, one can put lot of excuses to > > one's > > > > Boss in office....!!! and stand a sure chance of losing the > > job....!!! > > > > > > > > Well not everything is destiny.....for ordinary mortals - yes who > > are > > > > resigned to fate, for those with a thinking mind....it is not > > so.....!! > > > > > > > > Everything is cause and reaction......and upholding of > > dharma....!! In > > > > mahabharat...Lord Krishna instructs Arjun... - you duty is to > > shoot > > > > arrows......to ensure that the arrows hit the enemy is my > > job..... to > > > > upload dharma in daily life is one's prerogative......the > > examples you > > > > have are in principle are bad {using a milder word !!}....to stop > > the > > > > karmic cycle....by perpetuating the reaction is where the real > > karma or > > > > dharma lies.... > > > > > > > > Kindly read the hindu scriptures in english language shall > > provide the > > > > weblinks on it tomorrow...the karmic law cannot be overruled even > > by > > > > great saints....it has to be satisfied.....prayers & guru's help > > in > > > > overcoming it...or advanced yogis, transfer the karma on to > > themselves > > > > through yogic methods to protect their disciples......does Jesus > > really > > > > deserve the type of crucification death...??? for his simple > > > > preachings....surely NOT > > > > > > > > Normally the karma burning is very slow for ordinary people...but > > people > > > > who are already on dharma....it burns must faster...hurdles are > > > > more....you are repaying your debts of next life now > > itself.....!! see > > > > my karma accounting theories in the archives..... > > > > > > > > ....got to for dinner...getting late...will continue > > tomorrow.....on > > > > this....consider this as part-1 > > > > > > > > with regards > > > > > > > > sreeram srinivas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Prathamesn Chawan > > > > <upaoakcrest@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I feel more sorry if someone proves that astrology is 100% true. I > > > > havent got the answer of this question so far. If astrology is > > 100% true > > > > then an able astrologer can predict everything about your future. > > If > > > > that happens then there is nothing good or bad or evil. > > > > > > > > A rapist is as good as a the victim. Rapist was supposed to rape > > > > according to planetary conditions in his chart and victim was > > supposed > > > > to be victim according to her chart. It means Harshad Mehta, > > > > Daud-Abrahim, Chotta Shakil and all the people from underworld or > > > > indulge in illegal activities are not bad. They are acting as > > they are > > > > destined. > > > > > > > > A husband who beats his wife daily is not a bad person. Wife was > > > > destined to suffer and husband was supposed to be the aggresive > > and > > > > voilent ? > > > > > > > > Can anyone tell me how much is in human hand and how much is in > > the hand > > > > of destiny ? After reading many books of K. N. Rao, i feel that > > its all > > > > destiny. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > Jagdish > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make your > > homepage. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 4, 2007 Report Share Posted December 4, 2007 Let us not try to fit everything into "rishi horas", possibly rishi horas limited themselves to astrology, but the subject itself is connected to overall creation & its evolution in broader sense. Further, having reached salvation or experienced the divine bliss, the essence of time vanishes !! Scriptures say there are many other "lokas or worlds" other than our earthly worlds, divine bliss is a first passport or visa to migrate to other world, there also the karma principle prevails, till you reach the final "merging of soul with divine itself" Example: A person from a country like India, works hard, gets a USA visa, works there, applies for Green Card, if Uncle Bush specified quotas is filled up, then he may not get it, need to return after 6 years, loiter around for a year, then apply again for H1B visa. Some candidates may be "Green Card", and may continue there - they are supposed to be having theoretically - two passports i.e native country & to continue their in foreing land - a state of transition -"Mid Heaven" status ?? May be Yes. Here you have the Uncle Bush & USA defence forces's Patriot & other Ballistic Missiles force to protect you initially. The most successful ones will get citizenship status later { merged soul with divine status}. Here you have the power of Uncle Bush & NATO forces to protect you wherever you go...for now you are a USA citizen. So, it is a progression of the soul that we are taking or referring in the astrology. Few things are detailed nicely in "Kathopanishad", gives good details of karma concept. We do many Nachiketas now - Mr. Jagdish, Mr. Chawan....etc.. , but need to see if they are equally determined like Nachiketa ?? time will tell !! The shortage of Swamiji's and quality of general public, that most of them today are only discussing either Yoga Asanas, Holistic Management,...etc.... gone were the days, when exalted Swamijis used to regularly give month long discourses on Gita & Upanishads for 3-4 hrs daily in evenings. I still remember those "lively hot discussions" on Gita & Upanishads, subsequent upon those discourses....they were held at same place every year. Mind used to get enriched each time with new thoughts. with regards, sreeram srinivas , "panditarjun2004" <panditarjun2004 wrote:>> dear friend> > while your narration of time and how the time is measured is correct, > to make a remark that time is illusion is not correct.> > time has been defined as measurable and quantifiable in our holy > scriptures as well as the basic laws of physics according to > science. just because it is only measurable and not seen, it cannot > be called an illusion. > > the power or electricity that is produced in the power generation > plans and transmitted through wires and enjoyed through utilities is > not visible but is measurable like time. shall we say power is an > illusion, no.> > with best wishes and blessings> pandit arjun> www.rudraksharemedy.com> > , "chandra_hari18" > <chandra_hari18@> wrote:> >> > > > Dear Sreenadh,> > > > I think your observation is not correct. Karma theory is > fundamental to> > astrology. What is time? Time is an illusion. How time operates? > Time is> > constituted of the 5 tattvas and bhutas in successive micro and > macro> > levels (terminology is difficult to mind) and the Bhuta -ghatana > imparts> > special qualities for moments which reflect destiny. Karma is the > factor> > that decides Bhuta-ghatana and Karma catches up with the individual> > through breath which has a specific bhuta or tattva pattern.> > > > Because of the above reason, first breath or cry is the true birth > time.> > First cry is the siren of Karma- Prarabdham for which horoscope is > made.> > > > chandra hari> > > > , "Sreenadh"> > <sreesog@> wrote:> > >> > > Dear Jagdish ji and Srinivas ji,> > > Being an astrology group, I have a simple question - Is there ANY> > > Rishi hora slokas (astrological quotes) that supports Karma theory> > > before the laghu jataka (attributed to Mihira) which> > > reads 'Edupachitam anya janmani ....." etc. The point I want to> > > emphasize is there is NO Rishi Hora sloka that support Karma > theory> > > available!> > > As per astrology - time is the cause behind; As per Vedanta it is> > > Karma theory; As per Ayurveda it is the innate nature; as per > Sankhya> > > it is Purusha - and so on. The various knowledge branches had > there> > > own philosophical approach (and astrology has its own unique> > > philosophical approach for sure) - and the mixing of adopted > theories> > > such as Karma theory into astrology is NOT in tune with the > vision of> > > the sages who wrote Horas on astrology - this is my opinion.> > > Note: If we want to follow Rishi horas we may have to drop Karma> > > theory. > > > Love and regards,> > > Sreenadh> > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 4, 2007 Report Share Posted December 4, 2007 wow... Nachiketas .. who ? me ?You must be kidding.."Coping" others and taking "information" instead of "knowledge" is not going to take us anywhere...My 2 pennies....Jagdishsreeram srinivas <sreeram64 wrote: Let us not try to fit everything into "rishi horas", possibly rishi horas limited themselves to astrology, but the subject itself is connected to overall creation & its evolution in broader sense. Further, having reached salvation or experienced the divine bliss, the essence of time vanishes !! Scriptures say there are many other "lokas or worlds" other than our earthly worlds, divine bliss is a first passport or visa to migrate to other world, there also the karma principle prevails, till you reach the final "merging of soul with divine itself" Example: A person from a country like India, works hard, gets a USA visa, works there, applies for Green Card, if Uncle Bush specified quotas is filled up, then he may not get it, need to return after 6 years, loiter around for a year, then apply again for H1B visa. Some candidates may be "Green Card", and may continue there - they are supposed to be having theoretically - two passports i.e native country & to continue their in foreing land - a state of transition -"Mid Heaven" status ?? May be Yes. Here you have the Uncle Bush & USA defence forces's Patriot & other Ballistic Missiles force to protect you initially. The most successful ones will get citizenship status later { merged soul with divine status}. Here you have the power of Uncle Bush & NATO forces to protect you wherever you go...for now you are a USA citizen. So, it is a progression of the soul that we are taking or referring in the astrology. Few things are detailed nicely in "Kathopanishad", gives good details of karma concept. We do many Nachiketas now - Mr. Jagdish, Mr. Chawan....etc.. , but need to see if they are equally determined like Nachiketa ?? time will tell !! The shortage of Swamiji's and quality of general public, that most of them today are only discussing either Yoga Asanas, Holistic Management,...etc.... gone were the days, when exalted Swamijis used to regularly give month long discourses on Gita & Upanishads for 3-4 hrs daily in evenings. I still remember those "lively hot discussions" on Gita & Upanishads, subsequent upon those discourses....they were held at same place every year. Mind used to get enriched each time with new thoughts. with regards, sreeram srinivas , "panditarjun2004" <panditarjun2004 wrote:>> dear friend> > while your narration of time and how the time is measured is correct, > to make a remark that time is illusion is not correct.> > time has been defined as measurable and quantifiable in our holy > scriptures as well as the basic laws of physics according to > science. just because it is only measurable and not seen, it cannot > be called an illusion. > > the power or electricity that is produced in the power generation > plans and transmitted through wires and enjoyed through utilities is > not visible but is measurable like time. shall we say power is an > illusion, no.> > with best wishes and blessings> pandit arjun> www.rudraksharemedy.com> > , "chandra_hari18" > <chandra_hari18@> wrote:> >> > > > Dear Sreenadh,> > > > I think your observation is not correct. Karma theory is > fundamental to> > astrology. What is time? Time is an illusion. How time operates? > Time is> > constituted of the 5 tattvas and bhutas in successive micro and > macro> > levels (terminology is difficult to mind) and the Bhuta -ghatana > imparts> > special qualities for moments which reflect destiny. Karma is the > factor> > that decides Bhuta-ghatana and Karma catches up with the individual> > through breath which has a specific bhuta or tattva pattern.> > > > Because of the above reason, first breath or cry is the true birth > time.> > First cry is the siren of Karma- Prarabdham for which horoscope is > made.> > > > chandra hari> > > > , "Sreenadh"> > <sreesog@> wrote:> > >> > > Dear Jagdish ji and Srinivas ji,> > > Being an astrology group, I have a simple question - Is there ANY> > > Rishi hora slokas (astrological quotes) that supports Karma theory> > > before the laghu jataka (attributed to Mihira) which> > > reads 'Edupachitam anya janmani ....." etc. The point I want to> > > emphasize is there is NO Rishi Hora sloka that support Karma > theory> > > available!> > > As per astrology - time is the cause behind; As per Vedanta it is> > > Karma theory; As per Ayurveda it is the innate nature; as per > Sankhya> > > it is Purusha - and so on. The various knowledge branches had > there> > > own philosophical approach (and astrology has its own unique> > > philosophical approach for sure) - and the mixing of adopted > theories> > > such as Karma theory into astrology is NOT in tune with the > vision of> > > the sages who wrote Horas on astrology - this is my opinion.> > > Note: If we want to follow Rishi horas we may have to drop Karma> > > theory. > > > Love and regards,> > > Sreenadh> > > Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make your homepage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 4, 2007 Report Share Posted December 4, 2007 Dear Chandrahari ji, Thanks for the beautiful note. But I have some concerns - ==> > I think your observation is not correct. Karma theory is > fundamental to astrology. <== The point is - I couldn't find not even a single Rishi hora sloka that supports Karma theory. Do you have one? If so I am ready to change my opinian. ==> > First cry is the siren of Karma- Prarabdham for which horoscope > is made. <== Due to the very same reason that Rishi hora quotes are not available I don't to this view regarding birth as well. Brihat Saunaka hora tells us that " Prasooti kalam tam viddhi yada garbhodaka sruti " , further due to the support from Saknda hora etc I to the view that " Birth time is the mathematical point of time as given by Varga Chatushtaya " Love and regards, Sreenadh , " chandra_hari18 " <chandra_hari18 wrote: > > > Dear Sreenadh, > > I think your observation is not correct. Karma theory is fundamental to > astrology. What is time? Time is an illusion. How time operates? Time is > constituted of the 5 tattvas and bhutas in successive micro and macro > levels (terminology is difficult to mind) and the Bhuta -ghatana imparts > special qualities for moments which reflect destiny. Karma is the factor > that decides Bhuta-ghatana and Karma catches up with the individual > through breath which has a specific bhuta or tattva pattern. > > Because of the above reason, first breath or cry is the true birth time. > First cry is the siren of Karma- Prarabdham for which horoscope is made. > > chandra hari , " Sreenadh " > <sreesog@> wrote: > > > > Dear Jagdish ji and Srinivas ji, > > Being an astrology group, I have a simple question - Is there ANY > > Rishi hora slokas (astrological quotes) that supports Karma theory > > before the laghu jataka (attributed to Mihira) which > > reads 'Edupachitam anya janmani ..... " etc. The point I want to > > emphasize is there is NO Rishi Hora sloka that support Karma theory > > available! > > As per astrology - time is the cause behind; As per Vedanta it is > > Karma theory; As per Ayurveda it is the innate nature; as per Sankhya > > it is Purusha - and so on. The various knowledge branches had there > > own philosophical approach (and astrology has its own unique > > philosophical approach for sure) - and the mixing of adopted theories > > such as Karma theory into astrology is NOT in tune with the vision of > > the sages who wrote Horas on astrology - this is my opinion. > > Note: If we want to follow Rishi horas we may have to drop Karma > > theory. > > Love and regards, > > Sreenadh > > > > , Prathamesn Chawan > > upaoakcrest@ wrote: > > > > > > Dear Srinivas Ji > > > > > > Greetings > > > > > > > > > Lord Krishna had fatal attacks on his life. Krishna was a lord > > itself. What karma he did in his last life (which is not there) so > > that he got such a dangerous childhood ? > > > > > > What karma Jesus did ? He suffered a lot. > > > > > > Well, who made this karma or came up with this concept of Karma ? > > What was his desire ? If its God, then what does he want from human > > being ? > > > > > > Even if we believe that Karma theory ( supported by Gita) is true > > then it means that we are slave of a rule. Who made us slave of the > > rule ? > > > > > > There are many more question in my mind to ask you. Well, i am > > asking because of my planetary positions (19:13, Ghaziabad - UP, 25- > > August-1981). > > > > > > I think a lot on all these questions and try to justify or > > counter-argue with myself on these question. But never got a > > satisfied reason. > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > Jagdish > > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh sreesog@ wrote: Dear Srinivas ji, > > > ==> > > > > karma burning .... > > > <== > > > I wonder - is it some thing like Firewood?! :=) > > > Love and hugs, > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > , " sreeram srinivas " > > > <sreeram64@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Chawan saab, > > > > > > > > I respect your views and hence the pleasure of disagreeing with > > > > you....!!....Going by your logics, one can put lot of excuses to > > one's > > > > Boss in office....!!! and stand a sure chance of losing the > > job....!!! > > > > > > > > Well not everything is destiny.....for ordinary mortals - yes who > > are > > > > resigned to fate, for those with a thinking mind....it is not > > so.....!! > > > > > > > > Everything is cause and reaction......and upholding of > > dharma....!! In > > > > mahabharat...Lord Krishna instructs Arjun... - you duty is to > > shoot > > > > arrows......to ensure that the arrows hit the enemy is my > > job..... to > > > > upload dharma in daily life is one's prerogative......the > > examples you > > > > have are in principle are bad {using a milder word !!}....to stop > > the > > > > karmic cycle....by perpetuating the reaction is where the real > > karma or > > > > dharma lies.... > > > > > > > > Kindly read the hindu scriptures in english language shall > > provide the > > > > weblinks on it tomorrow...the karmic law cannot be overruled even > > by > > > > great saints....it has to be satisfied.....prayers & guru's help > > in > > > > overcoming it...or advanced yogis, transfer the karma on to > > themselves > > > > through yogic methods to protect their disciples......does Jesus > > really > > > > deserve the type of crucification death...??? for his simple > > > > preachings....surely NOT > > > > > > > > Normally the karma burning is very slow for ordinary people...but > > people > > > > who are already on dharma....it burns must faster...hurdles are > > > > more....you are repaying your debts of next life now > > itself.....!! see > > > > my karma accounting theories in the archives..... > > > > > > > > ....got to for dinner...getting late...will continue > > tomorrow.....on > > > > this....consider this as part-1 > > > > > > > > with regards > > > > > > > > sreeram srinivas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Prathamesn Chawan > > > > <upaoakcrest@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I feel more sorry if someone proves that astrology is 100% true. I > > > > havent got the answer of this question so far. If astrology is > > 100% true > > > > then an able astrologer can predict everything about your future. > > If > > > > that happens then there is nothing good or bad or evil. > > > > > > > > A rapist is as good as a the victim. Rapist was supposed to rape > > > > according to planetary conditions in his chart and victim was > > supposed > > > > to be victim according to her chart. It means Harshad Mehta, > > > > Daud-Abrahim, Chotta Shakil and all the people from underworld or > > > > indulge in illegal activities are not bad. They are acting as > > they are > > > > destined. > > > > > > > > A husband who beats his wife daily is not a bad person. Wife was > > > > destined to suffer and husband was supposed to be the aggresive > > and > > > > voilent ? > > > > > > > > Can anyone tell me how much is in human hand and how much is in > > the hand > > > > of destiny ? After reading many books of K. N. Rao, i feel that > > its all > > > > destiny. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > Jagdish > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make your > > homepage. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 4, 2007 Report Share Posted December 4, 2007 Dear Arjun ji, Vedas and Puranas mostly deal with " Vedic Tropical Astrology " and not with " Non-Vedic Nirayana Astrology " as we use it today. Actually Puranas and Astrology conflict in many basic concepts itself. For example Brigu (Venus) is female as per astrology but male as per mythology, Moon is female as per astrology but male as per mythology. As Chandrahari mentioned earlier probably we shouldn't create a mystology by mixing astrology and mythology. :=) I am of the opinion that - in Nirayana astrology it is better to go by the statements and directions given in ancient nirayana astrological texts itself. Love, Sreenadh , " panditarjun2004 " <panditarjun2004 wrote: > > dear friends > > as rightly told by chandrahariji, karma theory is corroborated in > almost all puranas and vedas and am happy to share references > aplenty. > > on the contrary, sreenadhji may like to substantiate where the holy > scriptures mention that a human is not responsible for his own > actions, nay, he is a puppet with the strings in the hands of the > planets and that all a human does is only because of the planets and > not due to his past karmas. sreenadji may kindly corroborate his > theory of humans fate or future depending squarely from the plaents. > > when we mention references from puranas, some people these days have > started blaming the great english scholars who translated the holy > puranas as having written thier own interpretations and not the real > meaningas as the puranas written by the gods and the sages intended > to convey. the late kashi maharaja has published few puranas in > sanskrit with english translations funded by the ministry of > education, government of india. from these very indian government > supported puranas, i find the following theory from these puranas: > -----------quote----------- > lord yama says: > > whatever a human does is the consequence of his own deeds. the vital > air lends consciousness to creatures and is made steady in the world > and these creatures enjoy this air while performing both good and > evil deeds. It is due to the past deeds that the sentient creatures > experience death, bondage or discomforts during hundreds of births. > > the notion prevailing in the world that some external power promotes > (or controls) the work is WRONG. whateve a man does is done by > himself. as the sins of men gradually wear out, their good sense > begins to exert itself. the falling propensity of men of evil > tendencies born on earth goes away by the decaying of their evil > deeds. the proneness to good or evil deeds is inherited by men from > their past deeds and from past births. man perform good or evil > deeds by themselves. > ---------unquote---------- > > interestingly in the succeeding paras, giving planetary references, > lord yama narrates how the humans can get rid of their sins through > yoga and pranayama (and kundalini raising in modern parlance). it > narrates how to see the seven planets in the seven chakra portions of > the body and how by doing pranayama and seeing these planets in these > portions of the body, one can get liberated of his sins. > > from the above, it is evidently clear that a man is not a puppet in > the hands of the planets but is a doer of his own past deeds. above > all the human has the power to win over the planets by yoga and > pranayama by seeing (realising and aligning) the seven planets in the > seven chakras. some yogis in the himalayas even today are > demonstrating how to align with the five tatvas and control the > pancha bhootas. > > with best wishes and blessings > pandit arjun > www.rudraksharemedy.com > > , " chandra_hari18 " > <chandra_hari18@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Sreenadh, > > > > I think your observation is not correct. Karma theory is > fundamental to > > astrology. What is time? Time is an illusion. How time operates? > Time is > > constituted of the 5 tattvas and bhutas in successive micro and > macro > > levels (terminology is difficult to mind) and the Bhuta -ghatana > imparts > > special qualities for moments which reflect destiny. Karma is the > factor > > that decides Bhuta-ghatana and Karma catches up with the individual > > through breath which has a specific bhuta or tattva pattern. > > > > Because of the above reason, first breath or cry is the true birth > time. > > First cry is the siren of Karma- Prarabdham for which horoscope is > made. > > > > chandra hari > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " Sreenadh " > > <sreesog@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Jagdish ji and Srinivas ji, > > > Being an astrology group, I have a simple question - Is there ANY > > > Rishi hora slokas (astrological quotes) that supports Karma theory > > > before the laghu jataka (attributed to Mihira) which > > > reads 'Edupachitam anya janmani ..... " etc. The point I want to > > > emphasize is there is NO Rishi Hora sloka that support Karma > theory > > > available! > > > As per astrology - time is the cause behind; As per Vedanta it is > > > Karma theory; As per Ayurveda it is the innate nature; as per > Sankhya > > > it is Purusha - and so on. The various knowledge branches had > there > > > own philosophical approach (and astrology has its own unique > > > philosophical approach for sure) - and the mixing of adopted > theories > > > such as Karma theory into astrology is NOT in tune with the > vision of > > > the sages who wrote Horas on astrology - this is my opinion. > > > Note: If we want to follow Rishi horas we may have to drop Karma > > > theory. > > > Love and regards, > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > , Prathamesn Chawan > > > upaoakcrest@ wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Srinivas Ji > > > > > > > > Greetings > > > > > > > > > > > > Lord Krishna had fatal attacks on his life. Krishna was a lord > > > itself. What karma he did in his last life (which is not there) so > > > that he got such a dangerous childhood ? > > > > > > > > What karma Jesus did ? He suffered a lot. > > > > > > > > Well, who made this karma or came up with this concept of > Karma ? > > > What was his desire ? If its God, then what does he want from > human > > > being ? > > > > > > > > Even if we believe that Karma theory ( supported by Gita) is > true > > > then it means that we are slave of a rule. Who made us slave of > the > > > rule ? > > > > > > > > There are many more question in my mind to ask you. Well, i am > > > asking because of my planetary positions (19:13, Ghaziabad - UP, > 25- > > > August-1981). > > > > > > > > I think a lot on all these questions and try to justify or > > > counter-argue with myself on these question. But never got a > > > satisfied reason. > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > Jagdish > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh sreesog@ wrote: Dear Srinivas ji, > > > > ==> > > > > > karma burning .... > > > > <== > > > > I wonder - is it some thing like Firewood?! :=) > > > > Love and hugs, > > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > > > , " sreeram > srinivas " > > > > <sreeram64@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Chawan saab, > > > > > > > > > > I respect your views and hence the pleasure of disagreeing > with > > > > > you....!!....Going by your logics, one can put lot of excuses > to > > > one's > > > > > Boss in office....!!! and stand a sure chance of losing the > > > job....!!! > > > > > > > > > > Well not everything is destiny.....for ordinary mortals - yes > who > > > are > > > > > resigned to fate, for those with a thinking mind....it is not > > > so.....!! > > > > > > > > > > Everything is cause and reaction......and upholding of > > > dharma....!! In > > > > > mahabharat...Lord Krishna instructs Arjun... - you duty is to > > > shoot > > > > > arrows......to ensure that the arrows hit the enemy is my > > > job..... to > > > > > upload dharma in daily life is one's prerogative......the > > > examples you > > > > > have are in principle are bad {using a milder word !!}....to > stop > > > the > > > > > karmic cycle....by perpetuating the reaction is where the real > > > karma or > > > > > dharma lies.... > > > > > > > > > > Kindly read the hindu scriptures in english language shall > > > provide the > > > > > weblinks on it tomorrow...the karmic law cannot be overruled > even > > > by > > > > > great saints....it has to be satisfied.....prayers & guru's > help > > > in > > > > > overcoming it...or advanced yogis, transfer the karma on to > > > themselves > > > > > through yogic methods to protect their disciples......does > Jesus > > > really > > > > > deserve the type of crucification death...??? for his simple > > > > > preachings....surely NOT > > > > > > > > > > Normally the karma burning is very slow for ordinary > people...but > > > people > > > > > who are already on dharma....it burns must faster...hurdles > are > > > > > more....you are repaying your debts of next life now > > > itself.....!! see > > > > > my karma accounting theories in the archives..... > > > > > > > > > > ....got to for dinner...getting late...will continue > > > tomorrow.....on > > > > > this....consider this as part-1 > > > > > > > > > > with regards > > > > > > > > > > sreeram srinivas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Prathamesn > Chawan > > > > > <upaoakcrest@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I feel more sorry if someone proves that astrology is 100% > true. I > > > > > havent got the answer of this question so far. If astrology is > > > 100% true > > > > > then an able astrologer can predict everything about your > future. > > > If > > > > > that happens then there is nothing good or bad or evil. > > > > > > > > > > A rapist is as good as a the victim. Rapist was supposed to > rape > > > > > according to planetary conditions in his chart and victim was > > > supposed > > > > > to be victim according to her chart. It means Harshad Mehta, > > > > > Daud-Abrahim, Chotta Shakil and all the people from > underworld or > > > > > indulge in illegal activities are not bad. They are acting as > > > they are > > > > > destined. > > > > > > > > > > A husband who beats his wife daily is not a bad person. Wife > was > > > > > destined to suffer and husband was supposed to be the > aggresive > > > and > > > > > voilent ? > > > > > > > > > > Can anyone tell me how much is in human hand and how much is > in > > > the hand > > > > > of destiny ? After reading many books of K. N. Rao, i feel > that > > > its all > > > > > destiny. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > > > Jagdish > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make your > > > homepage. > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 4, 2007 Report Share Posted December 4, 2007 Dear Srinivas ji, ==> Let us not try to fit everything into " rishi horas " ,... <== Yes, I agree. But if we are 'trying to reconstruct the ancient astrological wisdom' then we MUST look for at least pointers and directions and seeds regarding the doctrines we may support in those Rishi horas, being sincere to astrology (because it is what we are trying to reconstruct). If it is not about ancient indian astrology, but only general speech anything is ok with me as well. But when I touch a subject, I want to be fully truthful to it - whether it be the discussion of related philosophy, advices, methodologies or what ever. Therefore I am forced to look for the seeds of such concepts in ancient Rishi horas itself, and if not available and if opposing indications are present, I will abide by the advice given by the Rishi horas itself, and look at everything else with skepticism only - since the subject under study here is astrology. I cannot help it – because that is the right approach. Love and regards, Sreenadh , " sreeram srinivas " <sreeram64 wrote: > > > Let us not try to fit everything into " rishi horas " , possibly rishi > horas limited themselves to astrology, but the subject itself is > connected to overall creation & its evolution in broader sense. Further, > having reached salvation or experienced the divine bliss, the essence of > time vanishes !! Scriptures say there are many other " lokas or worlds " > other than our earthly worlds, divine bliss is a first passport or visa > to migrate to other world, there also the karma principle prevails, till > you reach the final " merging of soul with divine itself " > > > Example: A person from a country like India, works hard, gets a USA > visa, works there, applies for Green Card, if Uncle Bush specified > quotas is filled up, then he may not get it, need to return after 6 > years, loiter around for a year, then apply again for H1B visa. > > Some candidates may be " Green Card " , and may continue there - they are > supposed to be having theoretically - two passports i.e native country & > to continue their in foreing land - a state of transition - " Mid Heaven " > status ?? May be Yes. Here you have the Uncle Bush & USA defence > forces's Patriot & other Ballistic Missiles force to protect you > initially. > > The most successful ones will get citizenship status later { merged > soul with divine status}. Here you have the power of Uncle Bush & NATO > forces to protect you wherever you go...for now you are a USA citizen. > > So, it is a progression of the soul that we are taking or referring in > the astrology. Few things are detailed nicely in " Kathopanishad " , gives > good details of karma concept. > > We do many Nachiketas now - Mr. Jagdish, Mr. Chawan....etc.. , but need > to see if they are equally determined like Nachiketa ?? time will tell > !! > > The shortage of Swamiji's and quality of general public, that most of > them today are only discussing either Yoga Asanas, Holistic > Management,...etc.... gone were the days, when exalted Swamijis used to > regularly give month long discourses on Gita & Upanishads for 3-4 hrs > daily in evenings. > > I still remember those " lively hot discussions " on Gita & Upanishads, > subsequent upon those discourses....they were held at same place every > year. Mind used to get enriched each time with new thoughts. > > with regards, > > sreeram srinivas > > > , " panditarjun2004 " > <panditarjun2004@> wrote: > > > > dear friend > > > > while your narration of time and how the time is measured is correct, > > to make a remark that time is illusion is not correct. > > > > time has been defined as measurable and quantifiable in our holy > > scriptures as well as the basic laws of physics according to > > science. just because it is only measurable and not seen, it cannot > > be called an illusion. > > > > the power or electricity that is produced in the power generation > > plans and transmitted through wires and enjoyed through utilities is > > not visible but is measurable like time. shall we say power is an > > illusion, no. > > > > with best wishes and blessings > > pandit arjun > > www.rudraksharemedy.com <http://www.rudraksharemedy.com> > > > > > , " chandra_hari18 " > > <chandra_hari18@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Dear Sreenadh, > > > > > > I think your observation is not correct. Karma theory is > > fundamental to > > > astrology. What is time? Time is an illusion. How time operates? > > Time is > > > constituted of the 5 tattvas and bhutas in successive micro and > > macro > > > levels (terminology is difficult to mind) and the Bhuta -ghatana > > imparts > > > special qualities for moments which reflect destiny. Karma is the > > factor > > > that decides Bhuta-ghatana and Karma catches up with the individual > > > through breath which has a specific bhuta or tattva pattern. > > > > > > Because of the above reason, first breath or cry is the true birth > > time. > > > First cry is the siren of Karma- Prarabdham for which horoscope is > > made. > > > > > > chandra hari > > > > > > > , " Sreenadh " > > > <sreesog@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Jagdish ji and Srinivas ji, > > > > Being an astrology group, I have a simple question - Is there ANY > > > > Rishi hora slokas (astrological quotes) that supports Karma theory > > > > before the laghu jataka (attributed to Mihira) which > > > > reads 'Edupachitam anya janmani ..... " etc. The point I want to > > > > emphasize is there is NO Rishi Hora sloka that support Karma > > theory > > > > available! > > > > As per astrology - time is the cause behind; As per Vedanta it is > > > > Karma theory; As per Ayurveda it is the innate nature; as per > > Sankhya > > > > it is Purusha - and so on. The various knowledge branches had > > there > > > > own philosophical approach (and astrology has its own unique > > > > philosophical approach for sure) - and the mixing of adopted > > theories > > > > such as Karma theory into astrology is NOT in tune with the > > vision of > > > > the sages who wrote Horas on astrology - this is my opinion. > > > > Note: If we want to follow Rishi horas we may have to drop Karma > > > > theory. > > > > Love and regards, > > > > Sreenadh > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 5, 2007 Report Share Posted December 5, 2007 dear sreedadhji i believe moon + venus denote feminine qualities, they are not female. may be because moon denotes mother,venus linked to wife opposite sex. please clarify. cheers venkat Sreenadh <sreesog Sent: Wednesday, December 5, 2007 8:02:58 AM Re: Astrology and Karma Theory Dear Arjun ji,Vedas and Puranas mostly deal with "Vedic Tropical Astrology" and not with "Non-Vedic Nirayana Astrology" as we use it today. Actually Puranas and Astrology conflict in many basic concepts itself. For example Brigu (Venus) is female as per astrology but male as per mythology, Moon is female as per astrology but male as per mythology. As Chandrahari mentioned earlier probably we shouldn't create a mystology by mixing astrology and mythology. :=) I am of the opinion that - in Nirayana astrology it is better to go by the statements and directions given in ancient nirayana astrological texts itself.Love,Sreenadhancient_indian_ astrology, "panditarjun2004" <panditarjun2004@ ...> wrote:>> dear friends> > as rightly told by chandrahariji, karma theory is corroborated in > almost all puranas and vedas and am happy to share references > aplenty. > > on the contrary, sreenadhji may like to substantiate where the holy > scriptures mention that a human is not responsible for his own > actions, nay, he is a puppet with the strings in the hands of the > planets and that all a human does is only because of the planets and > not due to his past karmas. sreenadji may kindly corroborate his > theory of humans fate or future depending squarely from the plaents.> > when we mention references from puranas, some people these days have > started blaming the great english scholars who translated the holy > puranas as having written thier own interpretations and not the real > meaningas as the puranas written by the gods and the sages intended > to convey. the late kashi maharaja has published few puranas in > sanskrit with english translations funded by the ministry of > education, government of india. from these very indian government > supported puranas, i find the following theory from these puranas:> -----------quote- --------- -> lord yama says:> > whatever a human does is the consequence of his own deeds. the vital > air lends consciousness to creatures and is made steady in the world > and these creatures enjoy this air while performing both good and > evil deeds. It is due to the past deeds that the sentient creatures > experience death, bondage or discomforts during hundreds of births.> > the notion prevailing in the world that some external power promotes > (or controls) the work is WRONG. whateve a man does is done by > himself. as the sins of men gradually wear out, their good sense > begins to exert itself. the falling propensity of men of evil > tendencies born on earth goes away by the decaying of their evil > deeds. the proneness to good or evil deeds is inherited by men from > their past deeds and from past births. man perform good or evil > deeds by themselves.> ---------unquote- ---------> > interestingly in the succeeding paras, giving planetary references, > lord yama narrates how the humans can get rid of their sins through > yoga and pranayama (and kundalini raising in modern parlance). it > narrates how to see the seven planets in the seven chakra portions of > the body and how by doing pranayama and seeing these planets in these > portions of the body, one can get liberated of his sins.> > from the above, it is evidently clear that a man is not a puppet in > the hands of the planets but is a doer of his own past deeds. above > all the human has the power to win over the planets by yoga and > pranayama by seeing (realising and aligning) the seven planets in the > seven chakras. some yogis in the himalayas even today are > demonstrating how to align with the five tatvas and control the > pancha bhootas.> > with best wishes and blessings> pandit arjun> www.rudraksharemedy .com> > ancient_indian_ astrology, "chandra_hari18" > <chandra_hari18@ > wrote:> >> > > > Dear Sreenadh,> > > > I think your observation is not correct. Karma theory is > fundamental to> > astrology. What is time? Time is an illusion. How time operates? > Time is> > constituted of the 5 tattvas and bhutas in successive micro and > macro> > levels (terminology is difficult to mind) and the Bhuta -ghatana > imparts> > special qualities for moments which reflect destiny. Karma is the > factor> > that decides Bhuta-ghatana and Karma catches up with the individual> > through breath which has a specific bhuta or tattva pattern.> > > > Because of the above reason, first breath or cry is the true birth > time.> > First cry is the siren of Karma- Prarabdham for which horoscope is > made.> > > > chandra hari> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, "Sreenadh"> > <sreesog@> wrote:> > >> > > Dear Jagdish ji and Srinivas ji,> > > Being an astrology group, I have a simple question - Is there ANY> > > Rishi hora slokas (astrological quotes) that supports Karma theory> > > before the laghu jataka (attributed to Mihira) which> > > reads 'Edupachitam anya janmani ....." etc. The point I want to> > > emphasize is there is NO Rishi Hora sloka that support Karma > theory> > > available!> > > As per astrology - time is the cause behind; As per Vedanta it is> > > Karma theory; As per Ayurveda it is the innate nature; as per > Sankhya> > > it is Purusha - and so on. The various knowledge branches had > there> > > own philosophical approach (and astrology has its own unique> > > philosophical approach for sure) - and the mixing of adopted > theories> > > such as Karma theory into astrology is NOT in tune with the > vision of> > > the sages who wrote Horas on astrology - this is my opinion.> > > Note: If we want to follow Rishi horas we may have to drop Karma> > > theory. > > > Love and regards,> > > Sreenadh> > >> > > ancient_indian_ astrology, Prathamesn Chawan> > > upaoakcrest@ wrote:> > > >> > > > Dear Srinivas Ji> > > >> > > > Greetings> > > >> > > >> > > > Lord Krishna had fatal attacks on his life. Krishna was a lord> > > itself. What karma he did in his last life (which is not there) so> > > that he got such a dangerous childhood ?> > > >> > > > What karma Jesus did ? He suffered a lot.> > > >> > > > Well, who made this karma or came up with this concept of > Karma ?> > > What was his desire ? If its God, then what does he want from > human> > > being ?> > > >> > > > Even if we believe that Karma theory ( supported by Gita) is > true> > > then it means that we are slave of a rule. Who made us slave of > the> > > rule ?> > > >> > > > There are many more question in my mind to ask you. Well, i am> > > asking because of my planetary positions (19:13, Ghaziabad - UP, > 25-> > > August-1981) .> > > >> > > > I think a lot on all these questions and try to justify or> > > counter-argue with myself on these question. But never got a> > > satisfied reason.> > > >> > > > Thanks> > > >> > > > Jagdish> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Sreenadh sreesog@ wrote: Dear Srinivas ji,> > > > ==>> > > > > karma burning ....> > > > <==> > > > I wonder - is it some thing like Firewood?! :=)> > > > Love and hugs,> > > > Sreenadh> > > >> > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, "sreeram > srinivas"> > > > <sreeram64@> wrote:> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Dear Chawan saab,> > > > >> > > > > I respect your views and hence the pleasure of disagreeing > with> > > > > you....!!... .Going by your logics, one can put lot of excuses > to> > > one's> > > > > Boss in office....!! ! and stand a sure chance of losing the> > > job....!!!> > > > >> > > > > Well not everything is destiny..... for ordinary mortals - yes > who> > > are> > > > > resigned to fate, for those with a thinking mind....it is not> > > so.....!!> > > > >> > > > > Everything is cause and reaction.... ..and upholding of> > > dharma....!! In> > > > > mahabharat.. .Lord Krishna instructs Arjun... - you duty is to> > > shoot> > > > > arrows...... to ensure that the arrows hit the enemy is my> > > job..... to> > > > > upload dharma in daily life is one's prerogative. .....the> > > examples you> > > > > have are in principle are bad {using a milder word !!}....to > stop> > > the> > > > > karmic cycle....by perpetuating the reaction is where the real> > > karma or> > > > > dharma lies....> > > > >> > > > > Kindly read the hindu scriptures in english language shall> > > provide the> > > > > weblinks on it tomorrow...the karmic law cannot be overruled > even> > > by> > > > > great saints....it has to be satisfied... ..prayers & guru's > help> > > in> > > > > overcoming it...or advanced yogis, transfer the karma on to> > > themselves> > > > > through yogic methods to protect their disciples... ...does > Jesus> > > really> > > > > deserve the type of crucification death...??? for his simple> > > > > preachings.. ..surely NOT> > > > >> > > > > Normally the karma burning is very slow for ordinary > people...but> > > people> > > > > who are already on dharma....it burns must faster...hurdles > are> > > > > more....you are repaying your debts of next life now> > > itself.....! ! see> > > > > my karma accounting theories in the archives.... .> > > > >> > > > > ....got to for dinner...getting late...will continue> > > tomorrow.... .on> > > > > this....consider this as part-1> > > > >> > > > > with regards> > > > >> > > > > sreeram srinivas> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > ancient_indian_ astrology, Prathamesn > Chawan> > > > > <upaoakcrest@ > wrote:> > > > >> > > > > I feel more sorry if someone proves that astrology is 100% > true. I> > > > > havent got the answer of this question so far. If astrology is> > > 100% true> > > > > then an able astrologer can predict everything about your > future.> > > If> > > > > that happens then there is nothing good or bad or evil.> > > > >> > > > > A rapist is as good as a the victim. Rapist was supposed to > rape> > > > > according to planetary conditions in his chart and victim was> > > supposed> > > > > to be victim according to her chart. It means Harshad Mehta,> > > > > Daud-Abrahim, Chotta Shakil and all the people from > underworld or> > > > > indulge in illegal activities are not bad. They are acting as> > > they are> > > > > destined.> > > > >> > > > > A husband who beats his wife daily is not a bad person. Wife > was> > > > > destined to suffer and husband was supposed to be the > aggresive> > > and> > > > > voilent ?> > > > >> > > > > Can anyone tell me how much is in human hand and how much is > in> > > the hand> > > > > of destiny ? After reading many books of K. N. Rao, i feel > that> > > its all> > > > > destiny.> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Thanks> > > > >> > > > > Jagdish> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > ------------ --------- --------- ---> > > > Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make your> > > homepage.> > > >> > >> >> Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2007 Report Share Posted December 8, 2007 Thanks Sreenivas - lets try to think aloud together .. Regards Bejoy C.S. www.keraladarsan.com --- sreeram srinivas <sreeram64 wrote: > > It is joy to see such simple presentation, multiple > worlds > / " lokas " ,....yet within the body !! Now the maya > gets dymystified to > all.....thanks to Be-JOY !!....This connects to > Patanjali Yoga...nicely. > > with regards, > > sreeram srinivas > > > , > Bejoy <bejoy_cs > wrote: > > > Dear Sreeram and All, > > Thanks for the encouraging words. > > As far as my understanding goes, Rig Veda ( RV ) has > talked in length about 7 worlds above the earth > and 7 > below. Of the 7 that is above, 4 it seems is > permanent > and 3 are temporary. This 3 world theory sits > nicely > with the 3 mean motions of the Sun too as said in > RV > assuming that the Sun has 3 higher orbits. > > If indeed the Sun has 3 higher orbits ( debatable ) > , > its quite probable that the velocity at the > highest > orbit should be very close to the velocity of > light > and at this stage mass should convert as energy ( > E=mc^2 ). So beyond this orbit where the 4 > permanent > world lies must be all energy fields only and > hence is > not subject to destruction. > > The 3 temporary worlds ( to which we belong ) is > then > particles at different mass and hence subject to > time > and hence subject to periodic creation and > destruction > which again as RV says the period equal to 4.32E+9 > earth years ( EY ). > > As earth and sun are part of this temporary world, > here comes the relevance of illusion or maya or > relativity as we are created and subject to > destruction at periodic intervals. While the 4 > permanent worlds are not subject to time as its > all > energy fields. The centre of mass of this energy > field > must be Vishnu or AmanthaPadmaNabhi > > Anatha ( infinite ) > > Padma ( lotus, symbolism for centripetal force., > lotus > is a collection of petals and gravity is a > centripetal > force ) > > Nabhi - Navel - centre of mass - where the entire > cosmic mass goes thru. > > Not sure if I have made any sense. I myself isnt > sure > ... just another wayward thought on mine. > > Regards > > Bejoy C.S. > www.keraladarsan.com > > > > > > ______________________________\ ____ Never miss a thing. Make your home page. http://www./r/hs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.