Re:2nd lord in 3rd house - what do you think? (My Reading)

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Dear Chandrashekar ji, I was just menioning the facts! In my previous mails, I never mentioned that "Jaimini stutra is Jaganmohana" and you were attributing such a statement to me!! Is that your clerical mistake or mine? Now when I mention the same, you take objection, as if it is an insult!!! Ofcourse I invited you and we all have a good regard and respect about your knowledge - but that doesn't mean that a misunderstanding or misquote should not be mentioned or clarified! ==>> Since you do not seem to be interested in knowing about other texts than > Prashna Marga, it is futile to give you the commentators names.<== If you don't want to share info - that is simply up to you - your wish. Enjoy! ==>> If as you claim Saravali has different editions with different number of > chapters,.........<== This essentially means that you are unaware about the different published versions of Saravali. ==>> If as you claim Saravali has different editions with different number of > chapters, then the reason that BPHS is questioned is equally applied > here.<== It could have been - but anyone who has gone through Saravali will know that what happened to Saravali was bit different; It was NOT interpolation, but rather dropping of many sections which Kalyanavarma included in Saravali by the later day scholars (who already had the texts like Yavana Jataka etc with them), is what happened with that text. So as far as Saravasli is concerned what is available to us is almost pure - but NOT complete. Actually there is no need to tell this - anyone who studied Saravali systematically will and can simply see it for sure. ==>> How can then one take the word of Saravali author (who, by the > way, is from North India, as is Varaha Mihira) to be sacrosanct?<== Who is speaking about any south-north divide; except as geographical reference?! And Kalyanavarma is from North India? That is news to me - please clarify. Of course Mihira is from Ujjain - and from where ever he is we value his knowledge and works; by the way know that Bhattolpala is from Kashmir! i.e. The extreme North and we value his commentary too - which usually gets neglected in North. In short we should value, who ever is knowledgeable and who ever is dependable - irrespective of the assumed repute or geographical location of the author. Also note that apart from as a geographical reference - there is nothing in the words north-south (India); and if you have any mis understanding regarding this - please correct it. I had to look at the dictionary to understand the meaning of the word 'sacrosanct' - forgive my ignorance. And yes, I got the meaning, and understood the meaning. Thanks. For other to whom this word is new: sacrosanct = Regarded as sacred and inviolable; Regarded with particular reverence or respect; Protected from violation or abuse by custom, law, or feelings of reverence; (Ref: http://www.answers.com/sacrosanct). Thanks for teaching a new good word. ==>> I am sure you will reflect on this sometime.<== When I can reflect on it and see things clearly why should I postpone it for a later date?!! ==> > I take your and the groups leave now.<== I wonder why?!!! Why you find simple conversations offensive?!! Life is so simple; no gurus in this group; we are all students; and we try to share our knowledge - through simple communication. What was the objectionable thing here that took place - I wonder!! Love and regards,Sreenadh

, Chandrashekhar <sharma.chandrashekhar wrote:>> Dear Sreenadhji,> > You wrote about Jagan mohan and Vashistha hora in the same stream, where > you were questioning the efforts to date Jaimini sutras. If you think I > am writing without reading the mails, I have no desire to remain on the > list to which you invited me.> > Since you do not seem to be interested in knowing about other texts than > Prashna Marga, it is futile to give you the commentators names.> > If as you claim Saravali has different editions with different number of > chapters, then the reason that BPHS is questioned is equally applied > here. How can then one take the word of Saravali author (who, by the > way, is from North India, as is Varaha Mihira) to be sacrosanct?> > I am sure you will reflect on this sometime.> > I take your and the groups leave now.> > Chandrashekhar.> > Sreenadh wrote:> >> > Dear Chandrasekhar ji,> > ==>> > > I have an old manuscript that is> > > Krishnananda Saraswati's commentary on Jaimini but nowhere does it> > > mention the name of the text as Jagan mohan. Gopal Nawathe also found> > > one manuscript in Pen in distant history and he too does not mention > > the> > > name Jagan Mohan.> > <==> > Who said that Jaimini Sutra is Jagan mohan? -You? I never > > said so! :-/ Please read the mail and answer. What I mentioned in the > > course of writing was that - "The text with the name 'Vasishta > > Samhita' published recently is actually a well popular text named > > 'Jagan Mohana' " - that statement has nothing to do with Jaimini > > sutra! What happened to you - it seems that you started typing > > without reading the mail itself - providing the assumed meaning from > > your mind. Ya, it happens to us all at times. > > ==>> > > There are umpteen commentaries on Jaimini sutras> > > including one by a contemporary of Varaha Mihira. This means it > > predates> > > or is contemporary to Varaha Mihira and certainly predates Saravali.> > <==> > That is a good news. Please give commentators name and from > > where the said comentry can be availed. Thanks for the info. > > ==>> > > There is no mention of Shaka in the texts. So the name referred to in> > > Vasishtha-samhita by Girija Shankar does not appear to refer to Jaimini> > > sutras.> > <==> > You are again utterly confused - please note and know that > > Vasihsta samhita and Jaimini sutra are different texts. The story > > related to recently published 'Vasishta Samhita' is given just to > > show that many texts of recent origin got ascribed to ancient sages. > > ==>> > > One question that troubles me no end, when people swear by Varaha > > Mihira> > > and Saravali being continuation of great ancient tradition of Sage told> > > astrology, is that whereas Varaha Mihira mentions Rahu and Ketu,> > > Saravali does not. How is this anomaly rationalized? Surely the sages> > > did not change their views on Rahu and Ketu after Varaha Mihira.> > <==> > There are many yogas in Saravali that mentions and uses Rahu and > > Ketu. Further which version of Saravali you are having? 60 chapter > > version? 108 chapter version? Or is it the 90 chapter version? > > Note that Kalyanavarma himself tells to us in Saravli that the book is > > being written to COMPLIMENT Varaha hora. I hope you see the point. > > I don't think, except the statement of the author of Saravali itself > > and the dependablity of Saravali quotes, we don't need a third party > > clarification to see the point that Saravali is a continuation of the > > Rishi Hora tradition.> > Love and regards,> > Sreenadh> > > > , Chandrashekhar > > sharma.chandrashekhar@ wrote:> > >> > > Dear Sreenadhji,> > >> > > It seems you were referring to only Kerala astrologers when you said> > > South India astrologers. By the way, I have an old manuscript that is> > > Krishnananda Saraswati's commentary on Jaimini but nowhere does it> > > mention the name of the text as Jagan mohan. Gopal Nawathe also found> > > one manuscript in Pen in distant history and he too does not mention > > the> > > name Jagan Mohan. There are umpteen commentaries on Jaimini sutras> > > including one by a contemporary of Varaha Mihira. This means it > > predates> > > or is contemporary to Varaha Mihira and certainly predates Saravali.> > > There is no mention of Shaka in the texts. So the name referred to in> > > Vasishtha-samhita by Girija Shankar does not appear to refer to Jaimini> > > sutras.> > >> > > One question that troubles me no end, when people swear by Varaha > > Mihira> > > and Saravali being continuation of great ancient tradition of Sage told> > > astrology, is that whereas Varaha Mihira mentions Rahu and Ketu,> > > Saravali does not. How is this anomaly rationalized? Surely the sages> > > did not change their views on Rahu and Ketu after Varaha Mihira.> > >> > > Regards,> > > Chandrashekhar.> > >> > >> > >> > > Sreenadh wrote:> > > >> > > > Dear Chandrasekhar ji,> > > > Possibly astrology the south has a better ancient history than> > > > Brihat Jataka of 6th century and Saravali of 10th century - as> > > > evident from the fact that may Kalidina Ahargana mentioned there > > dates> > > > far back, and also because the at least the south indian tradition of> > > > normal astrology dates back to the period of Vararuchi who is > > supposed> > > > to be the originater of KTPY system of number notation. Further Nadi> > > > system of astrology must have been popular there as evident from the> > > > fact that Chandra Kala nadi, Surya nadi and Chandra nadi etc are of> > > > Kerala origin. Further numerous sage quotes from Skanda hora, Brihat> > > > Prajapatya, Sounaka hora, Vasishta hora etc is available in south> > > > which seems to be unavailable in north - and the kerala astrologers> > > > makes extensive use of them. But the point I wanted to make is that> > > > Brihat Jataka and Saravali are considered the continuation of this> > > > great ancient tradition of sage told astrology in South India; while> > > > BPHS and Jaimni sutra are not at all popular. Even though scholars> > > > value the knowledge present in Uttara kalamrita, that too is NOT> > > > considered as a popular and dependable reference in Kerala; actually> > > > that text got translated in to Malayalam script recently only. But on> > > > the other hand Madhaveeya, Krishneeya, Dasadhyayi, Muhurta Padavi,> > > > Prasna anushtna padhati, Prasnamarga, Phaladeepika etc are well> > > > popular, extensively used, and well accepted. Jataka parijata is> > > > popular but it seems that scholars are selective in accepting the> > > > quotes from it too. As far as siddhantic tradition is concerned> > > > Kerala follows the Aryabhateeya school and the texts like Drig ganita> > > > and Karana paddhati and numerous later day texts originated in Kerala> > > > itself.> > > > ==>> > > > > I remember that there are many astrologers in Andhra who predict > > on the> > > > > basis of Jaimini and that is also South India.> > > > <==> > > > Yes, you could be right. On seeing the extensive use of KTPY system> > > > in Jaimini sutra, I have even the feeling that the text itself could> > > > be a creation of some south indian scholar who was well versed in the> > > > system. But the background info regarding this text is so misty. I> > > > don't have any idea about the facts such as -> > > > * In which region of India this system was practiced and popular> > > > earlier?> > > > * From where and when the manuscript is retrieved and who> > > > published Jaimini sutra first?> > > > * What were the efforts and results of dating Jaiminisutra till> > > > date?> > > > and so on.> > > >> > > > I was reading through the Vasishta samhita published by Girija> > > > sankar sastri recently and came to know of facts such as -> > > > * The actual name of the text is "Jagan Mohana" ('Jagan mohana'> > > > is a text name mentioned by many dependable scholars of by gone past)> > > > * The text mentions the use "Saka year" for some calculation and> > > > as such should be a creation after the beginning of Saka era; i.e.> > > > after 1st century AD.> > > > * The text is supposed to be written by some Vriddha Vasishta but> > > > certainly this text is NOT the ancient Vasishta samhita from which> > > > some quotes are available to us, quoted by many ancient scholars.> > > >> > > > So I usually have a relectance in accepting texts as authentic, if> > > > not they are really authentic; and proves their credibility when> > > > applied in actual prediction. The same must have been the attitude of> > > > Kerala scholars and I don't see any specialty in their approach -> > > > because they can't do anything else in a place astrology is practical> > > > science used daily, respected by people, and solid derivations are> > > > demanded from the astrologer. Thus the astrologer is forced to> > > > identify which book is trustworthy and which is not - of course> > > > accepting the fact that some gems would be present even in trash.> > > > Just sharing my awareness about Kerala astrologers and the systems> > > > followed and accepted there.> > > > Love and regards,> > > > Sreenadh> > > >> > > > , Chandrashekhar> > > > sharma.chandrashekhar@ wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Dear Sreenadhji,> > > > >> > > > > I think you also find mention of Arudha and Jaimini) in Uttara> > > > Kalamrita> > > > > which is certainly a text from South of India. I am sure Jyotish in> > > > > south is much more ancient than the times of Varaha Mihira and> > > > Saravali,> > > > > for them to be the only standards to be followed there. I > > remember that> > > > > there are many astrologers in Andhra who predict on the basis of> > > > Jaimini> > > > > and that is also South India. Of course this is my personal > > opinion and> > > > > others could hold a different view.> > > > >> > > > > Chandrashekhar.> > > > >> > > > > Sreenadh wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > Dear Renu ji,> > > > > > Arudha supposedly belived to be told by Parasara in BPHS and some> > > > > > Jaimini is NOT part of ancient system of astrology followed by > > Rishi> > > > > > Hora whether it be Arsha School, Jain School or Yavana school.> > > > > > Arudha the word means (On which the native sat or stand), is > > used as> > > > > > a referel point (starting point) similar to lagna in Prashna > > in south> > > > > > india. But there is no similarity or relation between the> > > > > > Jaiminian/Parasarian Arudha and the South Indian concept of > > Arudha.> > > > > > In any case the Rishi Horas DOES NOT speak about Arudha. So if we> > > > > > DON'T FIND the coherence of subject matter found with in Rishi > > horas> > > > > > in tw0 texts of doubtful origin (such as BPHS and Jaimini > > Sutra), I> > > > > > w0uld prefer to accept the matter which tallies with the other > > Rishi> > > > > > horas and discard the other - which without doubt the south indian> > > > > > astrologers were doing in recent centuries.> > > > > > The current form of BPHS and Jaimini Sutra with numerous > > references> > > > > > to weird concepts such as Arudha, Pranapada, Argala, Rasi > > drishti and> > > > > > so on could be a creation from Varanasi after 5th century AD. > > This is> > > > > > my personal opinion. Of course these texts may contain much valid> > > > > > material and valuable content - I am not against them - but it > > should> > > > > > be accepted that these texts are NOT in tune with "Traditional> > > > Ancient> > > > > > Indian Astrology". This is one of the fundamental reasons for the> > > > > > rejection of BPHS and Jaimini sutra by many scholars and > > preferring> > > > > > Brihat Jataka and Saravali as base texts - especially in South > > India.> > > > > > What ever I told above are facts, even though more than 60% of the> > > > > > group members may not agree with it, and even though it may cause> > > > > > turbulant arguments.> > > > > > Note: I request members to consider the above as my individual> > > > > > opinion and neglect this mail. I don't want a controversy - > > but just> > > > > > wanted to convey my sincere opinion.> > > > > > Love and regards,> > > > > > Sreenadh> > > > > >> > > > > > , "renunw" renunw@> > > > > > wrote:> > > > > > Re:2nd lord in 3rd house - what do you think? (My Reading)> > > > > >> > > > > > Dear Sreenadh ji,> > > > > >> > > > > > Thanks for beautifully explaining...as usual. I like the> > > > > > following:"Astrology tells us NOT mainly about the persona, > > but about> > > > > > the real individual behind! "> > > > > >> > > > > > Ultimately it is the real individual behind .....that every wife> > > > > > tries hard to understand. After all the thoughts of a wife are> > > > > > centred [7H kendra] around her husband's every action.> > > > > >> > > > > > " So the point is - this capability of astrology to 'look into the> > > > > > individual' rather than to 'projected image' IS important ...."> > > > > >> > > > > > Isn't the projected individual shown by Arudha Lagna.?...just a> > > > > > second..I may be wrong here.> > > > > >> > > > > > Note: By the way the only major statement I would disagree in the> > > > > > above reading in my case is - "He may lie, his mind wavering" and> > > > > > everything else I would agree as part of my basic human trait.> > > > > >> > > > > > Even if you didn't mention it ...I would have taken your word> > > > > > without the slightest doubt So is Sreeram ji's. It is not> > > > > > difficult to see through a persons writings :) > > > > > >> > > > > > blessings> > > > > >> > > > > > Renu> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >> >>