Guest guest Posted February 12, 2008 Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 Dear Sunil ji, Thanks for refering to many unique points -==>> Varaha mihira and so called ujjaini connection was or can b> established by 2 things ,one is he was one of the nava ratnas of king> vikramaditya ( whether he is mythical or original and this courtisan s> were lived in differnt centuries --if my memeory is correct vararuchi of> kerala was also one of the nava ratna s of vikramaditya darbar )<== Actually there are 4 Vikramadityas - Vikramaditya I of 1st centruy BC (based on whom Vikram Samvat came into existance), Vikramaditya II (Chandragupta II vikramaditya: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chandragupta_II) of gupta dynasty, Vikramaditya III of 6th century AD (who too is thought to have defeated Sakas alias Indo -Scythians), and Vikramaditya IV (Western Chalukya King: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vikramaditya_VI) of 12th century. Mihira was a contemporary of Vikramaditya of 6th centruy AD. The above list of Nava ratnas (9 scholers) came into existance by combining the names of scholers who lived at the period of Vikramaditya II (e.g Kalidasa) and Vikramaditya III (e.g. Mihira). Thus the above story about nava-ratnas in the darbar of Vikramaditya has a point - but is essentially wrong. You can have the list of those 9 scholers mentioned from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vikramaditya ==>> Again i find historians and modern day astronomers says delhi kutub> minar is an observatory and it was used by varahmihira or his school and> the place is still known as mehruali ( a twisted form of mihira s> village ) .<== The iron piller currently placed in Kutab Minar was originally located in Vishnu giri the capitel of Chandragupta II Vikramaditya. Vishnu giri was an astronomical observatory and the Iron piller was used as a gnomen. It was the later day Mugal kings who transfered it from Vishnu giri to Kutab Minar. ==>> But from varahmihira s text itself -It says he was a sun worshipper(> moorthitwe pari kalpitha ---------) and mind it sun worshipping> tradition was at it s peak in orissa ( konark temple ) and also it says> lot of iranian (persian ) maggies (astrologers --from this word magic> originated ) were also assossiated during the construction of this> temple (showing interaction between ancient cultures ) .<== This is natural if the assumption "The sindhu-sarasvati civilization tried to re-establish itself at least in 2 places in Indian - one in Ujjain (Malva, MP: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ujjain) and the other in Kalinga (Orissa: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalinga_%28India%29)". Note that "Mitra" (the Sun god) was the root god of many cultures [including Deva tribes (Vedic people) and the Asura tribes (Sindhu-Sarasvati, Zorashtrian Ahur Mazda worshipers etc) and possibly the root god of many cultures around the globe. Mihira too seems to be a follower of this ancient Sun worshiping tradition. Anyway, as you pointed out there seems to have been a strong connections between the ancient Malwa people and the ancient Kalinga people; or better a strong connection between the western and eastern costs of India. Love and regards,Sreenadh , "sunil nair" <astro_tellerkerala wrote:> > Hare rama krishna ,> > dear Name is ego ji ,> Varaha mihira and so called ujjaini connection was or can b> established by 2 things ,one is he was one of the nava ratnas of king> vikramaditya ( whether he is mythical or original and this courtisan s> were lived in differnt centuries --if my memeory is correct vararuchi of> kerala was also one of the nava ratna s of vikramaditya darbar )> > If any body can name them help me -i find this vetala bhatta ( means a> mythical figure and says it was spirit of brahmin got cursed and was in> that condition for 8000 years and then king vikramaditya with devine> help relaeased him --ref --vetala tales )> > And another thing is varahamihira system of astrology with lot chakra> system was very popular in ujjain school ( may be his gurukula ) till> end of 19th century .The famous author of rashtriya panchanga ( i may be> wrong on name here) sri hardeo sharma trivedi ji is from this school> (gurukula ) >But i heard an un official claim he was also student of> some rajastani astologer families ,who publishes this chandu panchanga> .I think still popular in that area .> > Again i find historians and modern day astronomers says delhi kutub> minar is an observatory and it was used by varahmihira or his school and> the place is still known as mehruali ( a twisted form of mihira s> village ) .> > as usual we (indians ) r able to creat a smoke screen here also .> > But from varahmihira s text itself -It says he was a sun worshipper(> moorthitwe pari kalpitha ---------) and mind it sun worshipping> tradition was at it s peak in orissa ( konark temple ) and also it says> lot of iranian (persian ) maggies (astrologers --from this word magic> originated ) were also assossiated during the construction of this> temple (showing interaction between ancient cultures ) .> > Regrds sunil nair> > om shreem mahalaxmai namah .> > , "nameisego"> nameisego@ wrote:> >> > Dear Sreenadhji,> >> > I think you might have made an error in stating that Ujjain is in> > Rajasthan.> >> > Actually Ujjain is in Madhyapradesh.> >> > Tatvam-Asi> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 Hare rama krishna dear sreenadh ji , Thank u for pointing out very valuable confirmations which was contradicting in my mind . But how come this kerala tradition very much assossiatd with Varahamihira ?Other astronomical and mathe matical tradition like arya bhatta and parameshwara schools we can know frm history of kerala itself . Also the jain -budhist tradition of kerala u can found collateral references in china and may be even in sreelanka and very many texts in ayurveda and mathematics is still avilable .I think even budhists of kerala has this astronomical ( may be no astrological ) traditions and sea faring traditions also contributed in interacting with many cultures in this world . It says King asoka 's daughter herself ( princess sanga mitra ) came to kerala on a missionary mission and first batch has gone to sri lanka for spreading the budhist ideas and religion and another mission has gone to china and that was depicted in famous shaolin temple.A black monk explaining budhist principle to mongolian looking monks . A reason may be for sea faring the nakshatras were used in identifing the sea routs . regrds sunil nair om shreem mahalaxmai namah. , "Sreenadh" <sreesog wrote:>> > Dear Sunil ji,> Thanks for refering to many unique points -> ==>> > Varaha mihira and so called ujjaini connection was or can b> > established by 2 things ,one is he was one of the nava ratnas of king> > vikramaditya ( whether he is mythical or original and this courtisan s> > were lived in differnt centuries --if my memeory is correct vararuchi> of> > kerala was also one of the nava ratna s of vikramaditya darbar )> <==> Actually there are 4 Vikramadityas - Vikramaditya I of 1st centruy BC> (based on whom Vikram Samvat came into existance), Vikramaditya II> (Chandragupta II vikramaditya:> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chandragupta_II> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chandragupta_II> ) of gupta dynasty,> Vikramaditya III of 6th century AD (who too is thought to have defeated> Sakas alias Indo -Scythians), and Vikramaditya IV (Western Chalukya> King: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vikramaditya_VI> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vikramaditya_VI> ) of 12th century. > Mihira was a contemporary of Vikramaditya of 6th centruy AD. The above> list of Nava ratnas (9 scholers) came into existance by combining the> names of scholers who lived at the period of Vikramaditya II (e.g> Kalidasa) and Vikramaditya III (e.g. Mihira). Thus the above story about> nava-ratnas in the darbar of Vikramaditya has a point - but is> essentially wrong. You can have the list of those 9 scholers mentioned> from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vikramaditya> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vikramaditya>> > ==>> > Again i find historians and modern day astronomers says delhi kutub> > minar is an observatory and it was used by varahmihira or his school> and> > the place is still known as mehruali ( a twisted form of mihira s> > village ) .> <==> The iron piller currently placed in Kutab Minar was originally> located in Vishnu giri the capitel of Chandragupta II Vikramaditya.> Vishnu giri was an astronomical observatory and the Iron piller was used> as a gnomen. It was the later day Mugal kings who transfered it from> Vishnu giri to Kutab Minar.> ==>> > But from varahmihira s text itself -It says he was a sun worshipper(> > moorthitwe pari kalpitha ---------) and mind it sun worshipping> > tradition was at it s peak in orissa ( konark temple ) and also it> says> > lot of iranian (persian ) maggies (astrologers --from this word magic> > originated ) were also assossiated during the construction of this> > temple (showing interaction between ancient cultures ) .> <==> This is natural if the assumption "The sindhu-sarasvati civilization> tried to re-establish itself at least in 2 places in Indian - one in> Ujjain (Malva, MP: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ujjain> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ujjain> ) and the other in Kalinga> (Orissa: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalinga_%28India%29> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalinga_%28India%29> )". Note that "Mitra"> (the Sun god) was the root god of many cultures [including Deva tribes> (Vedic people) and the Asura tribes (Sindhu-Sarasvati, Zorashtrian Ahur> Mazda worshipers etc) and possibly the root god of many cultures around> the globe. Mihira too seems to be a follower of this ancient Sun> worshiping tradition. Anyway, as you pointed out there seems to have> been a strong connections between the ancient Malwa people and the> ancient Kalinga people; or better a strong connection between the> western and eastern costs of India.> Love and regards,> Sreenadh> > , "sunil nair"> astro_tellerkerala@ wrote:> >> > Hare rama krishna ,> >> > dear Name is ego ji ,> > Varaha mihira and so called ujjaini connection was or can b> > established by 2 things ,one is he was one of the nava ratnas of king> > vikramaditya ( whether he is mythical or original and this courtisan s> > were lived in differnt centuries --if my memeory is correct vararuchi> of> > kerala was also one of the nava ratna s of vikramaditya darbar )> >> > If any body can name them help me -i find this vetala bhatta ( means a> > mythical figure and says it was spirit of brahmin got cursed and was> in> > that condition for 8000 years and then king vikramaditya with devine> > help relaeased him --ref --vetala tales )> >> > And another thing is varahamihira system of astrology with lot chakra> > system was very popular in ujjain school ( may be his gurukula ) till> > end of 19th century .The famous author of rashtriya panchanga ( i may> be> > wrong on name here) sri hardeo sharma trivedi ji is from this school> > (gurukula ) >But i heard an un official claim he was also student of> > some rajastani astologer families ,who publishes this chandu panchanga> > .I think still popular in that area .> >> > Again i find historians and modern day astronomers says delhi kutub> > minar is an observatory and it was used by varahmihira or his school> and> > the place is still known as mehruali ( a twisted form of mihira s> > village ) .> >> > as usual we (indians ) r able to creat a smoke screen here also .> >> > But from varahmihira s text itself -It says he was a sun worshipper(> > moorthitwe pari kalpitha ---------) and mind it sun worshipping> > tradition was at it s peak in orissa ( konark temple ) and also it> says> > lot of iranian (persian ) maggies (astrologers --from this word magic> > originated ) were also assossiated during the construction of this> > temple (showing interaction between ancient cultures ) .> >> > Regrds sunil nair> >> > om shreem mahalaxmai namah .> >> > , "nameisego"> > nameisego@ wrote:> > >> > > Dear Sreenadhji,> > >> > > I think you might have made an error in stating that Ujjain is in> > > Rajasthan.> > >> > > Actually Ujjain is in Madhyapradesh.> > >> > > Tatvam-Asi> > >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 Dear Sunil ji, ==> > But how come this kerala tradition very much associated with > Varahamihira ?Other astronomical and mathematical tradition like arya > bhatta and parameshwara schools we can know form history of kerala itself. <== It must be the AD 525 period of Aryabhata and his existence along with the Mihira of the same period that must have contributed the popularity of Mihira in Kerala. Two of them must have been scholars who were known through out India in that period especially due to the Nalanda learning center. Not that "Aryardharatra siddhanta" of Aryabhata got translated into other languages and spread to other parts of the world through North-West (Afghanistan, Persia). Also note that the well know commentator of Mihira's books named Bhattolpala is from Kashmir, pointing to the fact that Mihira's books were well popular through out India even in that far past, possibly in the period of Mihira and Aryabhata himself . Also note that they where the prime scholars with at times mutually contradicting views about several things. (Remember the controversy between them about the latitude of Ujjain; Mihira referring to actual place Ujjain and Aryabhata using Ujjain as a mathematical reference word for a location among 4 places which are 90 degree apart at the 4 faces of earth). May be the popularity of Mihira in Kerala has something to do with the migration of Jain and Ahi kula Naga cults which migrated from Gujrat/Malwa region to Kerala during that period and prior. But I think there is one more point that should be noted - * There is a clearly visible gap of more than 400 years from Aryabhatas and Mihira's period to the astrology books popular in Kerala as well as throughout in India. Note that the oldest and popular texts on nirayana astrology originated in kerala mostly around 15th century AD (Krishneeyas, Prasnasara, Prasna anushtana paddhati, Prasnamarga, Dasadhyayi and so on). Similar is the case about the whole of India. After Mihira and before the commentries of Bhattolpala we don't find any authentic and datable texts originating in the scene. It is seems that indian astrology owes much to Bhattolpala of 10th century AD for popularizing Mihiras works by writing extensive commentries on the same. Bhattolpala lived in Kashmir, and even the prime texts of the second surge after Aryabhata (6th century) in kerala which happened around 15th century refers to Bhattolpala! So you can also ask the question - how come this kerala tradition very much assossiatd with or refers to Bhattolpala? And also the question why the Tantric priests of many temples of kerala are termed Bhat or Bhattarakas. It is the spreading of Tantric culture and the migration of Tantric cults among the long distant locations such as (Kashmir, Gujrat, Orissa and Kerala) that caused this I feel. And why this migration? Because these where the 4 cardinal points within India where Tantric cults survived - in the past as well as today. Love and regards, Sreenadh , "sunil nair" <astro_tellerkerala wrote: > > Hare rama krishna > > dear sreenadh ji , > Thank u for pointing out very valuable confirmations which was > contradicting in my mind . > But how come this kerala tradition very much assossiatd with > Varahamihira ?Other astronomical and mathe matical tradition like arya > bhatta and parameshwara schools we can know frm history of kerala itself. > Also the jain -budhist tradition of kerala u can found collateral > references in china and may be even in sreelanka and very many texts in > ayurveda and mathematics is still avilable .I think even budhists of > kerala has this astronomical ( may be no astrological ) traditions and > sea faring traditions also contributed in interacting with many cultures > in this world . > > It says King asoka 's daughter herself ( princess sanga mitra ) came to > kerala on a missionary mission and first batch has gone to sri lanka for > spreading the budhist ideas and religion and another mission has gone to > china and that was depicted in famous shaolin temple.A black monk > explaining budhist principle to mongolian looking monks . > > A reason may be for sea faring the nakshatras were used in identifing > the sea routs . > regrds sunil nair > om shreem mahalaxmai namah. > , "Sreenadh" > <sreesog@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Sunil ji, > > Thanks for refering to many unique points - > > ==> > > > Varaha mihira and so called ujjaini connection was or can b > > > established by 2 things ,one is he was one of the nava ratnas of > king > > > vikramaditya ( whether he is mythical or original and this courtisan > s > > > were lived in differnt centuries --if my memeory is correct > vararuchi > > of > > > kerala was also one of the nava ratna s of vikramaditya darbar ) > > <== > > Actually there are 4 Vikramadityas - Vikramaditya I of 1st centruy BC > > (based on whom Vikram Samvat came into existance), Vikramaditya II > > (Chandragupta II vikramaditya: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chandragupta_II > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chandragupta_II> ) of gupta dynasty, > > Vikramaditya III of 6th century AD (who too is thought to have > defeated > > Sakas alias Indo -Scythians), and Vikramaditya IV (Western Chalukya > > King: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vikramaditya_VI > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vikramaditya_VI> ) of 12th century. > > Mihira was a contemporary of Vikramaditya of 6th centruy AD. The above > > list of Nava ratnas (9 scholers) came into existance by combining the > > names of scholers who lived at the period of Vikramaditya II (e.g > > Kalidasa) and Vikramaditya III (e.g. Mihira). Thus the above story > about > > nava-ratnas in the darbar of Vikramaditya has a point - but is > > essentially wrong. You can have the list of those 9 scholers mentioned > > from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vikramaditya > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vikramaditya> > > > > ==> > > > Again i find historians and modern day astronomers says delhi kutub > > > minar is an observatory and it was used by varahmihira or his school > > and > > > the place is still known as mehruali ( a twisted form of mihira s > > > village ) . > > <== > > The iron piller currently placed in Kutab Minar was originally > > located in Vishnu giri the capitel of Chandragupta II Vikramaditya. > > Vishnu giri was an astronomical observatory and the Iron piller was > used > > as a gnomen. It was the later day Mugal kings who transfered it from > > Vishnu giri to Kutab Minar. > > ==> > > > But from varahmihira s text itself -It says he was a sun worshipper( > > > moorthitwe pari kalpitha ---------) and mind it sun worshipping > > > tradition was at it s peak in orissa ( konark temple ) and also it > > says > > > lot of iranian (persian ) maggies (astrologers --from this word > magic > > > originated ) were also assossiated during the construction of this > > > temple (showing interaction between ancient cultures ) . > > <== > > This is natural if the assumption "The sindhu-sarasvati civilization > > tried to re-establish itself at least in 2 places in Indian - one in > > Ujjain (Malva, MP: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ujjain > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ujjain> ) and the other in Kalinga > > (Orissa: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalinga_%28India%29 > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalinga_%28India%29> )". Note that > "Mitra" > > (the Sun god) was the root god of many cultures [including Deva tribes > > (Vedic people) and the Asura tribes (Sindhu-Sarasvati, Zorashtrian > Ahur > > Mazda worshipers etc) and possibly the root god of many cultures > around > > the globe. Mihira too seems to be a follower of this ancient Sun > > worshiping tradition. Anyway, as you pointed out there seems to have > > been a strong connections between the ancient Malwa people and the > > ancient Kalinga people; or better a strong connection between the > > western and eastern costs of India. > > Love and regards, > > Sreenadh > > > > , "sunil nair" > > astro_tellerkerala@ wrote: > > > > > > Hare rama krishna , > > > > > > dear Name is ego ji , > > > Varaha mihira and so called ujjaini connection was or can b > > > established by 2 things ,one is he was one of the nava ratnas of > king > > > vikramaditya ( whether he is mythical or original and this courtisan > s > > > were lived in differnt centuries --if my memeory is correct > vararuchi > > of > > > kerala was also one of the nava ratna s of vikramaditya darbar ) > > > > > > If any body can name them help me -i find this vetala bhatta ( means > a > > > mythical figure and says it was spirit of brahmin got cursed and was > > in > > > that condition for 8000 years and then king vikramaditya with devine > > > help relaeased him --ref --vetala tales ) > > > > > > And another thing is varahamihira system of astrology with lot > chakra > > > system was very popular in ujjain school ( may be his gurukula ) > till > > > end of 19th century .The famous author of rashtriya panchanga ( i > may > > be > > > wrong on name here) sri hardeo sharma trivedi ji is from this school > > > (gurukula ) >But i heard an un official claim he was also student of > > > some rajastani astologer families ,who publishes this chandu > panchanga > > > .I think still popular in that area . > > > > > > Again i find historians and modern day astronomers says delhi kutub > > > minar is an observatory and it was used by varahmihira or his school > > and > > > the place is still known as mehruali ( a twisted form of mihira s > > > village ) . > > > > > > as usual we (indians ) r able to creat a smoke screen here also . > > > > > > But from varahmihira s text itself -It says he was a sun worshipper( > > > moorthitwe pari kalpitha ---------) and mind it sun worshipping > > > tradition was at it s peak in orissa ( konark temple ) and also it > > says > > > lot of iranian (persian ) maggies (astrologers --from this word > magic > > > originated ) were also assossiated during the construction of this > > > temple (showing interaction between ancient cultures ) . > > > > > > Regrds sunil nair > > > > > > om shreem mahalaxmai namah . > > > > > > , "nameisego" > > > nameisego@ wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Sreenadhji, > > > > > > > > I think you might have made an error in stating that Ujjain is in > > > > Rajasthan. > > > > > > > > Actually Ujjain is in Madhyapradesh. > > > > > > > > Tatvam-Asi > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 Dear Sunil ji, " It says King asoka 's daughter herself ( princess sanga mitra ) came to kerala on a missionary mission and first batch has gone to sri lanka for spreading the budhist ideas and religion and another mission has gone to china and that was depicted in famous shaolin temple. " Let me clarify it a little bit more.... History reveals, that King Asoka's son Mihindu, who became a Buddhist monk was sent to Sri Lanka with the messege of Buddhism and his daughter Sangamitta was sent with the sapling of the 'Sacred Bo Tree', a gift from Emperor Asoka to Sri Lanka, in the 3rd century BC. This Bo sapling was from the tree under which Prince Siddhartha attained Buddhahood. The tree in Sri Lanka is supposed to be the oldest tree in the world at present. blessings Renu , " sunil nair " <astro_tellerkerala wrote: > > > > > Hare rama krishna > > dear sreenadh ji , > > > > Thank u for pointing out very valuable confirmations which was > contradicting in my mind . > > > > But how come this kerala tradition very much assossiatd with > Varahamihira ?Other astronomical and mathe matical tradition like arya > bhatta and parameshwara schools we can know frm history of kerala itself > . > > Also the jain -budhist tradition of kerala u can found collateral > references in china and may be even in sreelanka and very many texts in > ayurveda and mathematics is still avilable .I think even budhists of > kerala has this astronomical ( may be no astrological ) traditions and > sea faring traditions also contributed in interacting with many cultures > in this world . > > It says King asoka 's daughter herself ( princess sanga mitra ) came to > kerala on a missionary mission and first batch has gone to sri lanka for > spreading the budhist ideas and religion and another mission has gone to > china and that was depicted in famous shaolin temple.A black monk > explaining budhist principle to mongolian looking monks . > > A reason may be for sea faring the nakshatras were used in identifing > the sea routs . > > > > regrds sunil nair > > > > om shreem mahalaxmai namah. > > > > > , " Sreenadh " > <sreesog@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Sunil ji, > > Thanks for refering to many unique points - > > ==> > > > Varaha mihira and so called ujjaini connection was or can b > > > established by 2 things ,one is he was one of the nava ratnas of > king > > > vikramaditya ( whether he is mythical or original and this courtisan > s > > > were lived in differnt centuries --if my memeory is correct > vararuchi > > of > > > kerala was also one of the nava ratna s of vikramaditya darbar ) > > <== > > Actually there are 4 Vikramadityas - Vikramaditya I of 1st centruy BC > > (based on whom Vikram Samvat came into existance), Vikramaditya II > > (Chandragupta II vikramaditya: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chandragupta_II > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chandragupta_II> ) of gupta dynasty, > > Vikramaditya III of 6th century AD (who too is thought to have > defeated > > Sakas alias Indo -Scythians), and Vikramaditya IV (Western Chalukya > > King: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vikramaditya_VI > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vikramaditya_VI> ) of 12th century. > > Mihira was a contemporary of Vikramaditya of 6th centruy AD. The above > > list of Nava ratnas (9 scholers) came into existance by combining the > > names of scholers who lived at the period of Vikramaditya II (e.g > > Kalidasa) and Vikramaditya III (e.g. Mihira). Thus the above story > about > > nava-ratnas in the darbar of Vikramaditya has a point - but is > > essentially wrong. You can have the list of those 9 scholers mentioned > > from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vikramaditya > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vikramaditya> > > > > ==> > > > Again i find historians and modern day astronomers says delhi kutub > > > minar is an observatory and it was used by varahmihira or his school > > and > > > the place is still known as mehruali ( a twisted form of mihira s > > > village ) . > > <== > > The iron piller currently placed in Kutab Minar was originally > > located in Vishnu giri the capitel of Chandragupta II Vikramaditya. > > Vishnu giri was an astronomical observatory and the Iron piller was > used > > as a gnomen. It was the later day Mugal kings who transfered it from > > Vishnu giri to Kutab Minar. > > ==> > > > But from varahmihira s text itself -It says he was a sun worshipper( > > > moorthitwe pari kalpitha ---------) and mind it sun worshipping > > > tradition was at it s peak in orissa ( konark temple ) and also it > > says > > > lot of iranian (persian ) maggies (astrologers --from this word > magic > > > originated ) were also assossiated during the construction of this > > > temple (showing interaction between ancient cultures ) . > > <== > > This is natural if the assumption " The sindhu-sarasvati civilization > > tried to re-establish itself at least in 2 places in Indian - one in > > Ujjain (Malva, MP: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ujjain > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ujjain> ) and the other in Kalinga > > (Orissa: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalinga_%28India%29 > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalinga_%28India%29> ) " . Note that > " Mitra " > > (the Sun god) was the root god of many cultures [including Deva tribes > > (Vedic people) and the Asura tribes (Sindhu-Sarasvati, Zorashtrian > Ahur > > Mazda worshipers etc) and possibly the root god of many cultures > around > > the globe. Mihira too seems to be a follower of this ancient Sun > > worshiping tradition. Anyway, as you pointed out there seems to have > > been a strong connections between the ancient Malwa people and the > > ancient Kalinga people; or better a strong connection between the > > western and eastern costs of India. > > Love and regards, > > Sreenadh > > > > , " sunil nair " > > astro_tellerkerala@ wrote: > > > > > > Hare rama krishna , > > > > > > dear Name is ego ji , > > > Varaha mihira and so called ujjaini connection was or can b > > > established by 2 things ,one is he was one of the nava ratnas of > king > > > vikramaditya ( whether he is mythical or original and this courtisan > s > > > were lived in differnt centuries --if my memeory is correct > vararuchi > > of > > > kerala was also one of the nava ratna s of vikramaditya darbar ) > > > > > > If any body can name them help me -i find this vetala bhatta ( means > a > > > mythical figure and says it was spirit of brahmin got cursed and was > > in > > > that condition for 8000 years and then king vikramaditya with devine > > > help relaeased him --ref --vetala tales ) > > > > > > And another thing is varahamihira system of astrology with lot > chakra > > > system was very popular in ujjain school ( may be his gurukula ) > till > > > end of 19th century .The famous author of rashtriya panchanga ( i > may > > be > > > wrong on name here) sri hardeo sharma trivedi ji is from this school > > > (gurukula ) >But i heard an un official claim he was also student of > > > some rajastani astologer families ,who publishes this chandu > panchanga > > > .I think still popular in that area . > > > > > > Again i find historians and modern day astronomers says delhi kutub > > > minar is an observatory and it was used by varahmihira or his school > > and > > > the place is still known as mehruali ( a twisted form of mihira s > > > village ) . > > > > > > as usual we (indians ) r able to creat a smoke screen here also . > > > > > > But from varahmihira s text itself -It says he was a sun worshipper( > > > moorthitwe pari kalpitha ---------) and mind it sun worshipping > > > tradition was at it s peak in orissa ( konark temple ) and also it > > says > > > lot of iranian (persian ) maggies (astrologers --from this word > magic > > > originated ) were also assossiated during the construction of this > > > temple (showing interaction between ancient cultures ) . > > > > > > Regrds sunil nair > > > > > > om shreem mahalaxmai namah . > > > > > > , " nameisego " > > > nameisego@ wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Sreenadhji, > > > > > > > > I think you might have made an error in stating that Ujjain is in > > > > Rajasthan. > > > > > > > > Actually Ujjain is in Madhyapradesh. > > > > > > > > Tatvam-Asi > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 Hare rama krishna dear renu ji . Thanks for this information .What i wanted to stress is the kerala s budhist connections and sea faring tradition and hence use of nakshatra s as means to identify dea routes . Even some caste s in kerala they claim to be simhala related and used to cal themselves as simhala simhas .Some words they traditionaly uses which r common in sri lanka . yes sri lankan bodhi tree is supposed to be oldest in history . regrds sunil nair om shreem mahalaxmai namah. , "renunw" <renunw wrote:>> Dear Sunil ji,> > > "It says King asoka 's daughter herself ( princess sanga mitra ) > came to kerala on a missionary mission and first batch has gone to > sri lanka for spreading the budhist ideas and religion and another > mission has gone to china and that was depicted in famous shaolin > temple."> > Let me clarify it a little bit more....> > History reveals, that King Asoka's son Mihindu, who became a > Buddhist monk was sent to Sri Lanka with the messege of Buddhism and > his daughter Sangamitta was sent with the sapling of the 'Sacred Bo > Tree', a gift from Emperor Asoka to Sri Lanka, in the 3rd century > BC. This Bo sapling was from the tree under which Prince Siddhartha > attained Buddhahood. The tree in Sri Lanka is supposed to be the > oldest tree in the world at present. > > blessings> > Renu> > > , "sunil nair" > astro_tellerkerala@ wrote:> >> > > > > > > > Hare rama krishna> > > > dear sreenadh ji ,> > > > > > > > Thank u for pointing out very valuable confirmations which was> > contradicting in my mind .> > > > > > > > But how come this kerala tradition very much assossiatd with> > Varahamihira ?Other astronomical and mathe matical tradition like > arya> > bhatta and parameshwara schools we can know frm history of kerala > itself> > .> > > > Also the jain -budhist tradition of kerala u can found collateral> > references in china and may be even in sreelanka and very many > texts in> > ayurveda and mathematics is still avilable .I think even budhists > of> > kerala has this astronomical ( may be no astrological ) > traditions and> > sea faring traditions also contributed in interacting with many > cultures> > in this world .> > > > It says King asoka 's daughter herself ( princess sanga mitra ) > came to> > kerala on a missionary mission and first batch has gone to sri > lanka for> > spreading the budhist ideas and religion and another mission has > gone to> > china and that was depicted in famous shaolin temple.A black monk> > explaining budhist principle to mongolian looking monks .> > > > A reason may be for sea faring the nakshatras were used in > identifing> > the sea routs .> > > > > > > > regrds sunil nair> > > > > > > > om shreem mahalaxmai namah.> > > > > > > > > > , "Sreenadh"> > <sreesog@> wrote:> > >> > >> > > Dear Sunil ji,> > > Thanks for refering to many unique points -> > > ==>> > > > Varaha mihira and so called ujjaini connection was or can b> > > > established by 2 things ,one is he was one of the nava ratnas > of> > king> > > > vikramaditya ( whether he is mythical or original and this > courtisan> > s> > > > were lived in differnt centuries --if my memeory is correct> > vararuchi> > > of> > > > kerala was also one of the nava ratna s of vikramaditya > darbar )> > > <==> > > Actually there are 4 Vikramadityas - Vikramaditya I of 1st > centruy BC> > > (based on whom Vikram Samvat came into existance), Vikramaditya > II> > > (Chandragupta II vikramaditya:> > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chandragupta_II> > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chandragupta_II> ) of gupta > dynasty,> > > Vikramaditya III of 6th century AD (who too is thought to have> > defeated> > > Sakas alias Indo -Scythians), and Vikramaditya IV (Western > Chalukya> > > King: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vikramaditya_VI> > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vikramaditya_VI> ) of 12th century.> > > Mihira was a contemporary of Vikramaditya of 6th centruy AD. The > above> > > list of Nava ratnas (9 scholers) came into existance by > combining the> > > names of scholers who lived at the period of Vikramaditya II (e.g> > > Kalidasa) and Vikramaditya III (e.g. Mihira). Thus the above > story> > about> > > nava-ratnas in the darbar of Vikramaditya has a point - but is> > > essentially wrong. You can have the list of those 9 scholers > mentioned> > > from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vikramaditya> > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vikramaditya>> > >> > > ==>> > > > Again i find historians and modern day astronomers says delhi > kutub> > > > minar is an observatory and it was used by varahmihira or his > school> > > and> > > > the place is still known as mehruali ( a twisted form of > mihira s> > > > village ) .> > > <==> > > The iron piller currently placed in Kutab Minar was originally> > > located in Vishnu giri the capitel of Chandragupta II > Vikramaditya.> > > Vishnu giri was an astronomical observatory and the Iron piller > was> > used> > > as a gnomen. It was the later day Mugal kings who transfered it > from> > > Vishnu giri to Kutab Minar.> > > ==>> > > > But from varahmihira s text itself -It says he was a sun > worshipper(> > > > moorthitwe pari kalpitha ---------) and mind it sun worshipping> > > > tradition was at it s peak in orissa ( konark temple ) and > also it> > > says> > > > lot of iranian (persian ) maggies (astrologers --from this word> > magic> > > > originated ) were also assossiated during the construction of > this> > > > temple (showing interaction between ancient cultures ) .> > > <==> > > This is natural if the assumption "The sindhu-sarasvati > civilization> > > tried to re-establish itself at least in 2 places in Indian - > one in> > > Ujjain (Malva, MP: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ujjain> > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ujjain> ) and the other in Kalinga> > > (Orissa: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalinga_%28India%29> > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalinga_%28India%29> )". Note that> > "Mitra"> > > (the Sun god) was the root god of many cultures [including Deva > tribes> > > (Vedic people) and the Asura tribes (Sindhu-Sarasvati, > Zorashtrian> > Ahur> > > Mazda worshipers etc) and possibly the root god of many cultures> > around> > > the globe. Mihira too seems to be a follower of this ancient Sun> > > worshiping tradition. Anyway, as you pointed out there seems to > have> > > been a strong connections between the ancient Malwa people and > the> > > ancient Kalinga people; or better a strong connection between the> > > western and eastern costs of India.> > > Love and regards,> > > Sreenadh> > >> > > , "sunil nair"> > > astro_tellerkerala@ wrote:> > > >> > > > Hare rama krishna ,> > > >> > > > dear Name is ego ji ,> > > > Varaha mihira and so called ujjaini connection was or can b> > > > established by 2 things ,one is he was one of the nava ratnas > of> > king> > > > vikramaditya ( whether he is mythical or original and this > courtisan> > s> > > > were lived in differnt centuries --if my memeory is correct> > vararuchi> > > of> > > > kerala was also one of the nava ratna s of vikramaditya > darbar )> > > >> > > > If any body can name them help me -i find this vetala bhatta ( > means> > a> > > > mythical figure and says it was spirit of brahmin got cursed > and was> > > in> > > > that condition for 8000 years and then king vikramaditya with > devine> > > > help relaeased him --ref --vetala tales )> > > >> > > > And another thing is varahamihira system of astrology with lot> > chakra> > > > system was very popular in ujjain school ( may be his > gurukula )> > till> > > > end of 19th century .The famous author of rashtriya panchanga > ( i> > may> > > be> > > > wrong on name here) sri hardeo sharma trivedi ji is from this > school> > > > (gurukula ) >But i heard an un official claim he was also > student of> > > > some rajastani astologer families ,who publishes this chandu> > panchanga> > > > .I think still popular in that area .> > > >> > > > Again i find historians and modern day astronomers says delhi > kutub> > > > minar is an observatory and it was used by varahmihira or his > school> > > and> > > > the place is still known as mehruali ( a twisted form of > mihira s> > > > village ) .> > > >> > > > as usual we (indians ) r able to creat a smoke screen here > also .> > > >> > > > But from varahmihira s text itself -It says he was a sun > worshipper(> > > > moorthitwe pari kalpitha ---------) and mind it sun worshipping> > > > tradition was at it s peak in orissa ( konark temple ) and > also it> > > says> > > > lot of iranian (persian ) maggies (astrologers --from this word> > magic> > > > originated ) were also assossiated during the construction of > this> > > > temple (showing interaction between ancient cultures ) .> > > >> > > > Regrds sunil nair> > > >> > > > om shreem mahalaxmai namah .> > > >> > > > , "nameisego"> > > > nameisego@ wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Dear Sreenadhji,> > > > >> > > > > I think you might have made an error in stating that Ujjain > is in> > > > > Rajasthan.> > > > >> > > > > Actually Ujjain is in Madhyapradesh.> > > > >> > > > > Tatvam-Asi> > > > >> > > >> > >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 Dear Members: As a corollary to this discussion, we have to remember that after the decline of Mauriya empire around 150-200 B.C and reemergence of the Hindu kingdoms in the North, Buddhist and Jain leaders had to move. Jain monks moved to the south while Buddhism started to spread across Asia, Ceylon (Sri Lanks), and Afganistan. Jain monks understood that the main method of attracting people in the south was thru their art and literature in their own language and their contribution has been tremendous. For example, Thiruvalluvar who gave the great moral classic Thirukural is said to have been a Jain follower. There were many others too and they flourished and developed the Tamil language till about 6 century A.D, Things changed with the advent of Pallava Empire. Mahendra Varma, the famous Pallava who routed Pulikesi in 630 AD or thereabouts was born as a Jain. With his conversion to Hinduism and due to his attachment to it, Jainism lost its foothold in the south and slowly waned. Jainism flourished from 200 B.C. till about 700 A.D and all the three Tamil Kings, Chera, Chola, and the Pandyas have supported Jain monks and allowed them to practice, preach, and flourish. Even though I heard that Aryabhatta, a Jain scholar, was from Chera country for the first time in this group, it does not surprise me.Best wishesanantha krishnan Sreenadh <sreesog wrote: Dear Sunil ji, ==> > But how come this kerala tradition very much associated with > Varahamihira ?Other astronomical and mathematical tradition like arya > bhatta and parameshwara schools we can know form history of kerala itself. <== It must be the AD 525 period of Aryabhata and his existence along with the Mihira of the same period that must have contributed the popularity of Mihira in Kerala. Two of them must have been scholars who were known through out India in that period especially due to the Nalanda learning center. Not that "Aryardharatra siddhanta" of Aryabhata got translated into other languages and spread to other parts of the world through North-West (Afghanistan, Persia). Also note that the well know commentator of Mihira's books named Bhattolpala is from Kashmir, pointing to the fact that Mihira's books were well popular through out India even in that far past, possibly in the period of Mihira and Aryabhata himself . Also note that they where the prime scholars with at times mutually contradicting views about several things. (Remember the controversy between them about the latitude of Ujjain; Mihira referring to actual place Ujjain and Aryabhata using Ujjain as a mathematical reference word for a location among 4 places which are 90 degree apart at the 4 faces of earth). May be the popularity of Mihira in Kerala has something to do with the migration of Jain and Ahi kula Naga cults which migrated from Gujrat/Malwa region to Kerala during that period and prior. But I think there is one more point that should be noted - * There is a clearly visible gap of more than 400 years from Aryabhatas and Mihira's period to the astrology books popular in Kerala as well as throughout in India. Note that the oldest and popular texts on nirayana astrology originated in kerala mostly around 15th century AD (Krishneeyas, Prasnasara, Prasna anushtana paddhati, Prasnamarga, Dasadhyayi and so on). Similar is the case about the whole of India. After Mihira and before the commentries of Bhattolpala we don't find any authentic and datable texts originating in the scene. It is seems that indian astrology owes much to Bhattolpala of 10th century AD for popularizing Mihiras works by writing extensive commentries on the same. Bhattolpala lived in Kashmir, and even the prime texts of the second surge after Aryabhata (6th century) in kerala which happened around 15th century refers to Bhattolpala! So you can also ask the question - how come this kerala tradition very much assossiatd with or refers to Bhattolpala? And also the question why the Tantric priests of many temples of kerala are termed Bhat or Bhattarakas. It is the spreading of Tantric culture and the migration of Tantric cults among the long distant locations such as (Kashmir, Gujrat, Orissa and Kerala) that caused this I feel. And why this migration? Because these where the 4 cardinal points within India where Tantric cults survived - in the past as well as today. Love and regards, Sreenadh , "sunil nair" <astro_tellerkerala wrote: > > Hare rama krishna > > dear sreenadh ji , > Thank u for pointing out very valuable confirmations which was > contradicting in my mind . > But how come this kerala tradition very much assossiatd with > Varahamihira ?Other astronomical and mathe matical tradition like arya > bhatta and parameshwara schools we can know frm history of kerala itself. > Also the jain -budhist tradition of kerala u can found collateral > references in china and may be even in sreelanka and very many texts in > ayurveda and mathematics is still avilable .I think even budhists of > kerala has this astronomical ( may be no astrological ) traditions and > sea faring traditions also contributed in interacting with many cultures > in this world . > > It says King asoka 's daughter herself ( princess sanga mitra ) came to > kerala on a missionary mission and first batch has gone to sri lanka for > spreading the budhist ideas and religion and another mission has gone to > china and that was depicted in famous shaolin temple.A black monk > explaining budhist principle to mongolian looking monks . > > A reason may be for sea faring the nakshatras were used in identifing > the sea routs . > regrds sunil nair > om shreem mahalaxmai namah. > , "Sreenadh" > <sreesog@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Sunil ji, > > Thanks for refering to many unique points - > > ==> > > > Varaha mihira and so called ujjaini connection was or can b > > > established by 2 things ,one is he was one of the nava ratnas of > king > > > vikramaditya ( whether he is mythical or original and this courtisan > s > > > were lived in differnt centuries --if my memeory is correct > vararuchi > > of > > > kerala was also one of the nava ratna s of vikramaditya darbar ) > > <== > > Actually there are 4 Vikramadityas - Vikramaditya I of 1st centruy BC > > (based on whom Vikram Samvat came into existance), Vikramaditya II > > (Chandragupta II vikramaditya: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chandragupta_II > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chandragupta_II> ) of gupta dynasty, > > Vikramaditya III of 6th century AD (who too is thought to have > defeated > > Sakas alias Indo -Scythians), and Vikramaditya IV (Western Chalukya > > King: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vikramaditya_VI > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vikramaditya_VI> ) of 12th century. > > Mihira was a contemporary of Vikramaditya of 6th centruy AD. The above > > list of Nava ratnas (9 scholers) came into existance by combining the > > names of scholers who lived at the period of Vikramaditya II (e.g > > Kalidasa) and Vikramaditya III (e.g. Mihira). Thus the above story > about > > nava-ratnas in the darbar of Vikramaditya has a point - but is > > essentially wrong. You can have the list of those 9 scholers mentioned > > from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vikramaditya > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vikramaditya> > > > > ==> > > > Again i find historians and modern day astronomers says delhi kutub > > > minar is an observatory and it was used by varahmihira or his school > > and > > > the place is still known as mehruali ( a twisted form of mihira s > > > village ) . > > <== > > The iron piller currently placed in Kutab Minar was originally > > located in Vishnu giri the capitel of Chandragupta II Vikramaditya. > > Vishnu giri was an astronomical observatory and the Iron piller was > used > > as a gnomen. It was the later day Mugal kings who transfered it from > > Vishnu giri to Kutab Minar. > > ==> > > > But from varahmihira s text itself -It says he was a sun worshipper( > > > moorthitwe pari kalpitha ---------) and mind it sun worshipping > > > tradition was at it s peak in orissa ( konark temple ) and also it > > says > > > lot of iranian (persian ) maggies (astrologers --from this word > magic > > > originated ) were also assossiated during the construction of this > > > temple (showing interaction between ancient cultures ) . > > <== > > This is natural if the assumption "The sindhu-sarasvati civilization > > tried to re-establish itself at least in 2 places in Indian - one in > > Ujjain (Malva, MP: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ujjain > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ujjain> ) and the other in Kalinga > > (Orissa: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalinga_%28India%29 > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalinga_%28India%29> )". Note that > "Mitra" > > (the Sun god) was the root god of many cultures [including Deva tribes > > (Vedic people) and the Asura tribes (Sindhu-Sarasvati, Zorashtrian > Ahur > > Mazda worshipers etc) and possibly the root god of many cultures > around > > the globe. Mihira too seems to be a follower of this ancient Sun > > worshiping tradition. Anyway, as you pointed out there seems to have > > been a strong connections between the ancient Malwa people and the > > ancient Kalinga people; or better a strong connection between the > > western and eastern costs of India. > > Love and regards, > > Sreenadh > > > > , "sunil nair" > > astro_tellerkerala@ wrote: > > > > > > Hare rama krishna , > > > > > > dear Name is ego ji , > > > Varaha mihira and so called ujjaini connection was or can b > > > established by 2 things ,one is he was one of the nava ratnas of > king > > > vikramaditya ( whether he is mythical or original and this courtisan > s > > > were lived in differnt centuries --if my memeory is correct > vararuchi > > of > > > kerala was also one of the nava ratna s of vikramaditya darbar ) > > > > > > If any body can name them help me -i find this vetala bhatta ( means > a > > > mythical figure and says it was spirit of brahmin got cursed and was > > in > > > that condition for 8000 years and then king vikramaditya with devine > > > help relaeased him --ref --vetala tales ) > > > > > > And another thing is varahamihira system of astrology with lot > chakra > > > system was very popular in ujjain school ( may be his gurukula ) > till > > > end of 19th century .The famous author of rashtriya panchanga ( i > may > > be > > > wrong on name here) sri hardeo sharma trivedi ji is from this school > > > (gurukula ) >But i heard an un official claim he was also student of > > > some rajastani astologer families ,who publishes this chandu > panchanga > > > .I think still popular in that area . > > > > > > Again i find historians and modern day astronomers says delhi kutub > > > minar is an observatory and it was used by varahmihira or his school > > and > > > the place is still known as mehruali ( a twisted form of mihira s > > > village ) . > > > > > > as usual we (indians ) r able to creat a smoke screen here also . > > > > > > But from varahmihira s text itself -It says he was a sun worshipper( > > > moorthitwe pari kalpitha ---------) and mind it sun worshipping > > > tradition was at it s peak in orissa ( konark temple ) and also it > > says > > > lot of iranian (persian ) maggies (astrologers --from this word > magic > > > originated ) were also assossiated during the construction of this > > > temple (showing interaction between ancient cultures ) . > > > > > > Regrds sunil nair > > > > > > om shreem mahalaxmai namah . > > > > > > --- In , "nameisego" > > > nameisego@ wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Sreenadhji, > > > > > > > > I think you might have made an error in stating that Ujjain is in > > > > Rajasthan. > > > > > > > > Actually Ujjain is in Madhyapradesh. > > > > > > > > Tatvam-Asi > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 2008 Report Share Posted February 14, 2008 Dear Anantha Krishnan ji, That was a very informative and to the point mail. Thanks for sharing. Love and regards,Sreenadh , Anantha Krishnan <anantha_krishnan_98 wrote: Re: Re: Ujjain (East-West costal connections) Dear Members: As a corollary to this discussion, we have to remember that after the decline of Mauriya empire around 150-200 B.C and reemergence of the Hindu kingdoms in the North, Buddhist and Jain leaders had to move. Jain monks moved to the south while Buddhism started to spread across Asia, Ceylon (Sri Lanks), and Afganistan. Jain monks understood that the main method of attracting people in the south was thru their art and literature in their own language and their contribution has been tremendous. For example, Thiruvalluvar who gave the great moral classic Thirukural is said to have been a Jain follower. There were many others too and they flourished and developed the Tamil language till about 6 century A.D, Things changed with the advent of Pallava Empire. Mahendra Varma, the famous Pallava who routed Pulikesi in 630 AD or thereabouts was born as a Jain. With his conversion to Hinduism and due to his attachment to it, Jainism lost its foothold in the south and slowly waned. Jainism flourished from 200 B.C. till about 700 A.D and all the three Tamil Kings, Chera, Chola, and the Pandyas have supported Jain monks and allowed them to practice, preach, and flourish. Even though I heard that Aryabhatta, a Jain scholar, was from Chera country for the first time in this group, it does not surprise me. Best wishes anantha krishnanSreenadh <sreesog wrote: Dear Sunil ji,==>> But how come this kerala tradition very much associated with> Varahamihira ?Other astronomical and mathematical tradition like arya> bhatta and parameshwara schools we can know form history of kerala itself.<== It must be the AD 525 period of Aryabhata and his existence along with the Mihira of the same period that must have contributed the popularity of Mihira in Kerala. Two of them must have been scholars who were known through out India in that period especially due to the Nalanda learning center. Not that "Aryardharatra siddhanta" of Aryabhata got translated into other languages and spread to other parts of the world through North-West (Afghanistan, Persia). Also note that the well know commentator of Mihira's books named Bhattolpala is from Kashmir, pointing to the fact that Mihira's books were well popular through out India even in that far past, possibly in the period of Mihira and Aryabhata himself . Also note that they where the prime scholars with at times mutually contradicting views about several things. (Remember the controversy between them about the latitude of Ujjain; Mihira referring to actual place Ujjain and Aryabhata using Ujjain as a mathematical reference word for a location among 4 places which are 90 degree apart at the 4 faces of earth). May be the popularity of Mihira in Kerala has something to do with the migration of Jain and Ahi kula Naga cults which migrated from Gujrat/Malwa region to Kerala during that period and prior. But I think there is one more point that should be noted - * There is a clearly visible gap of more than 400 years from Aryabhatas and Mihira's period to the astrology books popular in Kerala as well as throughout in India. Note that the oldest and popular texts on nirayana astrology originated in kerala mostly around 15th century AD (Krishneeyas, Prasnasara, Prasna anushtana paddhati, Prasnamarga, Dasadhyayi and so on). Similar is the case about the whole of India. After Mihira and before the commentries of Bhattolpala we don't find any authentic and datable texts originating in the scene. It is seems that indian astrology owes much to Bhattolpala of 10th century AD for popularizing Mihiras works by writing extensive commentries on the same. Bhattolpala lived in Kashmir, and even the prime texts of the second surge after Aryabhata (6th century) in kerala which happened around 15th century refers to Bhattolpala! So you can also ask the question - how come this kerala tradition very much assossiatd with or refers to Bhattolpala? And also the question why the Tantric priests of many temples of kerala are termed Bhat or Bhattarakas. It is the spreading of Tantric culture and the migration of Tantric cults among the long distant locations such as (Kashmir, Gujrat, Orissa and Kerala) that caused this I feel. And why this migration? Because these where the 4 cardinal points within India where Tantric cults survived - in the past as well as today. Love and regards,Sreenadh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 2008 Report Share Posted February 19, 2008 Dear Members, Jainism in Karnataka flourished under the Ganga, the Chalukya and Rashtrakuta dynasties. The Jain legacy in Karnataka can be traced back to a great event that occurred in 297 BC when Chadragupta, the founder of the Mauryan dynasty, abdicated his throne and came to Sravanbelagola in Karnataka to become a Jain ascetic at the instance of his mentor, Bhadrabahu. He breathed his last at this Jain centre and the place where he is said to have sought recluse is appropriately name Chandragiri. A basadi (Jain monastery or temple) at Sravanabelagola also carries his name. In a number of later records he is referred to as Pradbha Chandra Muni. Filled with visions of Jaina unity, Chaundaraya the illustrious minister who served under the successive rulers of the Gangas namely Marasimha II, Rachamalla IV and Rachamalla V was instrumental in carving out the statue of Gommata, one of the engineering marvels of the world at Sravanbelagola. A great scholar, he was the author of Charitrasara in Sanskrit and Chaundaraya Purana or Trishahti Lakshana Mahapurana in Kannada prose thus setting the trend for celebrated works of literature by Jaina scholars. The period of the Gangas also witnessed literary activity in Sanskrit, Prakrit and Kannada. Notable among these are a translation of Gunadhya’s Vaddakatha from Prakrit to Sanskrit as well as a commentary on Kiratarjunaaya by Durvinitha, a learned Ganga king. The literary zeal of the Jains continued well into the age of the Rashtrakutas, covering not only religion but also embracing many secular branches of learning including mathematics and astronomy. Giant literary figures like Pampa, Ponna and Ranna, thrived under the enlightened rule of the kings of this dynasty. Pampa’s works included Vikramarjuna Vijaya also known as Pampa Bharata, giving a Jaina version of the Mahabharata Adipurana, narrating the story of Rishabadeva, the first tirthankara. Another Jain, Ranna, was the author of Sahasra-Bhima-Vijaya, describing the fight between Bhima and Duryodhana. Neminatha Purana, a history of the 22nd tirthankara, interprets the story of Krishna and the Pandavas the Jaina way. Ganithasarasangraha was a work on mathematics by Mahaveera, under the patronage of Amoghavarsha I. Rare jain palm leaf manuscripts of 12th century A.D. known as ‘Dhavala texts’ were discovered in moodbidri basadi.During Mughal assaults, the old Jain texts were shifted from Shravanabelagola to the safer Moodbidri. Rediscovered in the 1800s, these Moodbidri Manuscripts — Prakrit texts copied in old Hale-kannada script, with pinpricks on palm leaves — are revered as the oldest (scribed circa 1,060 A.D.) written materials of the tradition going back to Arihant. The collection of 3 ancient manuscripts: Dhavala, Jayadhavala and Mahadhavala, collectively called the "Siddhanta" in Digambara tradition. For many centuries, the only copy of the Siddhanta was this collection. You can also check this link http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~pluralsm/affiliates/jainism/article/south.htm Thanx n' rgds Maligere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 2008 Report Share Posted February 19, 2008 Hare ramakrishna dear maligere ji Nice post on jainism and their contributions thanks and regrds sunil nair om shreem mahalaxmai namah , "M.A" <maligere wrote:>> > Dear Members,> > Jainism in Karnataka flourished under the Ganga, the Chalukya and Rashtrakuta dynasties. > The Jain legacy in Karnataka can be traced back to a great event that occurred in 297 BC when Chadragupta, the founder of the Mauryan dynasty, abdicated his throne and came to Sravanbelagola in Karnataka to become a Jain ascetic at the instance of his mentor, Bhadrabahu. He breathed his last at this Jain centre and the place where he is said to have sought recluse is appropriately name Chandragiri. A basadi (Jain monastery or temple) at Sravanabelagola also carries his name. In a number of later records he is referred to as Pradbha Chandra Muni.> Filled with visions of Jaina unity, Chaundaraya the illustrious minister who served under the successive rulers of the Gangas namely Marasimha II, Rachamalla IV and Rachamalla V was instrumental in carving out the statue of Gommata, one of the engineering marvels of the world at Sravanbelagola. A great scholar, he was the author of Charitrasara in Sanskrit and Chaundaraya Purana or Trishahti Lakshana Mahapurana in Kannada prose thus setting the trend for celebrated works of literature by Jaina scholars. The period of the Gangas also witnessed literary activity in Sanskrit, Prakrit and Kannada. Notable among these are a translation of Gunadhya's Vaddakatha from Prakrit to Sanskrit as well as a commentary on Kiratarjunaaya by Durvinitha, a learned Ganga king.> The literary zeal of the Jains continued well into the age of the Rashtrakutas, covering not only religion but also embracing many secular branches of learning including mathematics and astronomy. Giant literary figures like Pampa, Ponna and Ranna, thrived under the enlightened rule of the kings of this dynasty. Pampa's works included Vikramarjuna Vijaya also known as Pampa Bharata, giving a Jaina version of the Mahabharata Adipurana, narrating the story of Rishabadeva, the first tirthankara. Another Jain, Ranna, was the author of Sahasra-Bhima-Vijaya, describing the fight between Bhima and Duryodhana. Neminatha Purana, a history of the 22nd tirthankara, interprets the story of Krishna and the Pandavas the Jaina way. Ganithasarasangraha was a work on mathematics by Mahaveera, under the patronage of Amoghavarsha I. > Rare jain palm leaf manuscripts of 12th century A.D. known as `Dhavala texts' were discovered in moodbidri basadi.During Mughal assaults, the old Jain texts were shifted from Shravanabelagola to the safer Moodbidri. Rediscovered in the 1800s, these Moodbidri Manuscripts — Prakrit texts copied in old Hale-kannada script, with pinpricks on palm leaves — are revered as the oldest (scribed circa 1,060 A.D.) written materials of the tradition going back to Arihant. The collection of 3 ancient manuscripts: Dhavala, Jayadhavala and Mahadhavala, collectively called the "Siddhanta" in Digambara tradition. For many centuries, the only copy of the Siddhanta was this collection. > > You can also check this link> http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~pluralsm/affiliates/jainism/article/south.htm> > Thanx n' rgds> Maligere> > > , Anantha Krishnan anantha_krishnan_98@ wrote:> > Re: Re: Ujjain (East-West costal connections) > > Dear Members: > As a corollary to this discussion, we have to remember that after the decline of Mauriya empire around 150-200 B.C and reemergence of the Hindu kingdoms in the North, Buddhist and Jain leaders had to move. Jain monks moved to the south while Buddhism started to spread across Asia, Ceylon (Sri Lanks), and Afganistan. Jain monks understood that the main method of attracting people in the south was thru their art and literature in their own language and their contribution has been tremendous. For example, Thiruvalluvar who gave the great moral classic Thirukural is said to have been a Jain follower. There were many others too and they flourished and developed the Tamil language till about 6 century A.D, Things changed with the advent of Pallava Empire. Mahendra Varma, the famous Pallava who routed Pulikesi in 630 AD or thereabouts was born as a Jain. With his conversion to Hinduism and due to his attachment to it, Jainism lost its foothold in the south and slowly waned.> Jainism flourished from 200 B.C. till about 700 A.D and all the three Tamil Kings, Chera, Chola, and the Pandyas have supported Jain monks and allowed them to practice, preach, and flourish. Even though I heard that Aryabhatta, a Jain scholar, was from Chera country for the first time in this group, it does not surprise me.> Best wishes> anantha krishnan> > > Sreenadh sreesog wrote: > Dear Sunil ji,> ==>> > But how come this kerala tradition very much associated with> > Varahamihira ?Other astronomical and mathematical tradition like arya> > bhatta and parameshwara schools we can know form history of kerala itself.> <== > It must be the AD 525 period of Aryabhata and his existence along with the Mihira of the same period that must have contributed the popularity of Mihira in Kerala. Two of them must have been scholars who were known through out India in that period especially due to the Nalanda learning center. > Not that "Aryardharatra siddhanta" of Aryabhata got translated into other languages and spread to other parts of the world through North-West (Afghanistan, Persia). Also note that the well know commentator of Mihira's books named Bhattolpala is from Kashmir, pointing to the fact that Mihira's books were well popular through out India even in that far past, possibly in the period of Mihira and Aryabhata himself . Also note that they where the prime scholars with at times mutually contradicting views about several things. (Remember the controversy between them about the latitude of Ujjain; Mihira referring to actual place Ujjain and Aryabhata using Ujjain as a mathematical reference word for a location among 4 places which are 90 degree apart at the 4 faces of earth). > May be the popularity of Mihira in Kerala has something to do with the migration of Jain and Ahi kula Naga cults which migrated from Gujrat/Malwa region to Kerala during that period and prior. > But I think there is one more point that should be noted -> * There is a clearly visible gap of more than 400 years from Aryabhatas and Mihira's period to the astrology books popular in Kerala as well as throughout in India.> Note that the oldest and popular texts on nirayana astrology originated in kerala mostly around 15th century AD (Krishneeyas, Prasnasara, Prasna anushtana paddhati, Prasnamarga, Dasadhyayi and so on). Similar is the case about the whole of India. After Mihira and before the commentries of Bhattolpala we don't find any authentic and datable texts originating in the scene. It is seems that indian astrology owes much to Bhattolpala of 10th century AD for popularizing Mihiras works by writing extensive commentries on the same. Bhattolpala lived in Kashmir, and even the prime texts of the second surge after Aryabhata (6th century) in kerala which happened around 15th century refers to Bhattolpala! So you can also ask the question - how come this kerala tradition very much assossiatd with or refers to Bhattolpala? And also the question why the Tantric priests of many temples of kerala are termed Bhat or Bhattarakas. It is the spreading of Tantric culture and the> migration of Tantric cults among the long distant locations such as (Kashmir, Gujrat, Orissa and Kerala) that caused this I feel. And why this migration? Because these where the 4 cardinal points within India where Tantric cults survived - in the past as well as today. > Love and regards,> Sreenadh> > > > > > > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search.> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 2008 Report Share Posted February 19, 2008 Thank you Sunilji, Karnataka is also a very major part of South India which has its own culture and literary works dating way back in history. Unfortunately not many people know about this........ Regards Maligere sunil nair <astro_tellerkerala wrote: Hare ramakrishna dear maligere ji Nice post on jainism and their contributions thanks and regrds sunil nair om shreem mahalaxmai namah , "M.A" <maligere wrote:>> > Dear Members,> > Jainism in Karnataka flourished under the Ganga, the Chalukya and Rashtrakuta dynasties. > The Jain legacy in Karnataka can be traced back to a great event that occurred in 297 BC when Chadragupta, the founder of the Mauryan dynasty, abdicated his throne and came to Sravanbelagola in Karnataka to become a Jain ascetic at the instance of his mentor, Bhadrabahu. He breathed his last at this Jain centre and the place where he is said to have sought recluse is appropriately name Chandragiri. A basadi (Jain monastery or temple) at Sravanabelagola also carries his name. In a number of later records he is referred to as Pradbha Chandra Muni.> Filled with visions of Jaina unity, Chaundaraya the illustrious minister who served under the successive rulers of the Gangas namely Marasimha II, Rachamalla IV and Rachamalla V was instrumental in carving out the statue of Gommata, one of the engineering marvels of the world at Sravanbelagola. A great scholar, he was the author of Charitrasara in Sanskrit and Chaundaraya Purana or Trishahti Lakshana Mahapurana in Kannada prose thus setting the trend for celebrated works of literature by Jaina scholars. The period of the Gangas also witnessed literary activity in Sanskrit, Prakrit and Kannada. Notable among these are a translation of Gunadhya's Vaddakatha from Prakrit to Sanskrit as well as a commentary on Kiratarjunaaya by Durvinitha, a learned Ganga king.> The literary zeal of the Jains continued well into the age of the Rashtrakutas, covering not only religion but also embracing many secular branches of learning including mathematics and astronomy. Giant literary figures like Pampa, Ponna and Ranna, thrived under the enlightened rule of the kings of this dynasty. Pampa's works included Vikramarjuna Vijaya also known as Pampa Bharata, giving a Jaina version of the Mahabharata Adipurana, narrating the story of Rishabadeva, the first tirthankara. Another Jain, Ranna, was the author of Sahasra-Bhima-Vijaya, describing the fight between Bhima and Duryodhana. Neminatha Purana, a history of the 22nd tirthankara, interprets the story of Krishna and the Pandavas the Jaina way. Ganithasarasangraha was a work on mathematics by Mahaveera, under the patronage of Amoghavarsha I. > Rare jain palm leaf manuscripts of 12th century A.D. known as `Dhavala texts' were discovered in moodbidri basadi.During Mughal assaults, the old Jain texts were shifted from Shravanabelagola to the safer Moodbidri. Rediscovered in the 1800s, these Moodbidri Manuscripts — Prakrit texts copied in old Hale-kannada script, with pinpricks on palm leaves — are revered as the oldest (scribed circa 1,060 A.D.) written materials of the tradition going back to Arihant. The collection of 3 ancient manuscripts: Dhavala, Jayadhavala and Mahadhavala, collectively called the "Siddhanta" in Digambara tradition. For many centuries, the only copy of the Siddhanta was this collection. > > You can also check this link> http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~pluralsm/affiliates/jainism/article/south.htm> > Thanx n' rgds> Maligere> > > , Anantha Krishnan anantha_krishnan_98@ wrote:> > Re: Re: Ujjain (East-West costal connections) > > Dear Members: > As a corollary to this discussion, we have to remember that after the decline of Mauriya empire around 150-200 B.C and reemergence of the Hindu kingdoms in the North, Buddhist and Jain leaders had to move. Jain monks moved to the south while Buddhism started to spread across Asia, Ceylon (Sri Lanks), and Afganistan. Jain monks understood that the main method of attracting people in the south was thru their art and literature in their own language and their contribution has been tremendous. For example, Thiruvalluvar who gave the great moral classic Thirukural is said to have been a Jain follower. There were many others too and they flourished and developed the Tamil language till about 6 century A.D, Things changed with the advent of Pallava Empire. Mahendra Varma, the famous Pallava who routed Pulikesi in 630 AD or thereabouts was born as a Jain. With his conversion to Hinduism and due to his attachment to it, Jainism lost its foothold in the south and slowly waned.> Jainism flourished from 200 B.C. till about 700 A.D and all the three Tamil Kings, Chera, Chola, and the Pandyas have supported Jain monks and allowed them to practice, preach, and flourish. Even though I heard that Aryabhatta, a Jain scholar, was from Chera country for the first time in this group, it does not surprise me.> Best wishes> anantha krishnan> > > Sreenadh sreesog wrote: > Dear Sunil ji,> ==>> > But how come this kerala tradition very much associated with> > Varahamihira ?Other astronomical and mathematical tradition like arya> > bhatta and parameshwara schools we can know form history of kerala itself.> <== > It must be the AD 525 period of Aryabhata and his existence along with the Mihira of the same period that must have contributed the popularity of Mihira in Kerala. Two of them must have been scholars who were known through out India in that period especially due to the Nalanda learning center. > Not that "Aryardharatra siddhanta" of Aryabhata got translated into other languages and spread to other parts of the world through North-West (Afghanistan, Persia). Also note that the well know commentator of Mihira's books named Bhattolpala is from Kashmir, pointing to the fact that Mihira's books were well popular through out India even in that far past, possibly in the period of Mihira and Aryabhata himself . Also note that they where the prime scholars with at times mutually contradicting views about several things. (Remember the controversy between them about the latitude of Ujjain; Mihira referring to actual place Ujjain and Aryabhata using Ujjain as a mathematical reference word for a location among 4 places which are 90 degree apart at the 4 faces of earth). > May be the popularity of Mihira in Kerala has something to do with the migration of Jain and Ahi kula Naga cults which migrated from Gujrat/Malwa region to Kerala during that period and prior. > But I think there is one more point that should be noted -> * There is a clearly visible gap of more than 400 years from Aryabhatas and Mihira's period to the astrology books popular in Kerala as well as throughout in India.> Note that the oldest and popular texts on nirayana astrology originated in kerala mostly around 15th century AD (Krishneeyas, Prasnasara, Prasna anushtana paddhati, Prasnamarga, Dasadhyayi and so on). Similar is the case about the whole of India. After Mihira and before the commentries of Bhattolpala we don't find any authentic and datable texts originating in the scene. It is seems that indian astrology owes much to Bhattolpala of 10th century AD for popularizing Mihiras works by writing extensive commentries on the same. Bhattolpala lived in Kashmir, and even the prime texts of the second surge after Aryabhata (6th century) in kerala which happened around 15th century refers to Bhattolpala! So you can also ask the question - how come this kerala tradition very much assossiatd with or refers to Bhattolpala? And also the question why the Tantric priests of many temples of kerala are termed Bhat or Bhattarakas. It is the spreading of Tantric culture and the> migration of Tantric cults among the long distant locations such as (Kashmir, Gujrat, Orissa and Kerala) that caused this I feel. And why this migration? Because these where the 4 cardinal points within India where Tantric cults survived - in the past as well as today. > Love and regards,> Sreenadh> > > > > > > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search.> Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 3, 2008 Report Share Posted March 3, 2008 Dear Maligere ji, I went through your post and the link you provided, and found that these links could provide more useful info on Jainisim and its contributions.* http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~pluralsm/affiliates/jainism/article/toc.htm* http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~pluralsm/affiliates/jainism/ I request all members to explore this valuable link. Love and regards,Sreenadh , "M.A" <maligere wrote: Re: Re: Ujjain (East-West costal connections) Dear Members, Jainism in Karnataka flourished under the Ganga, the Chalukya and Rashtrakuta dynasties. The Jain legacy in Karnataka can be traced back to a great event that occurred in 297 BC when Chadragupta, the founder of the Mauryan dynasty, abdicated his throne and came to Sravanbelagola in Karnataka to become a Jain ascetic at the instance of his mentor, Bhadrabahu. He breathed his last at this Jain centre and the place where he is said to have sought recluse is appropriately name Chandragiri. A basadi (Jain monastery or temple) at Sravanabelagola also carries his name. In a number of later records he is referred to as Pradbha Chandra Muni. Filled with visions of Jaina unity, Chaundaraya the illustrious minister who served under the successive rulers of the Gangas namely Marasimha II, Rachamalla IV and Rachamalla V was instrumental in carving out the statue of Gommata, one of the engineering marvels of the world at Sravanbelagola. A great scholar, he was the author of Charitrasara in Sanskrit and Chaundaraya Purana or Trishahti Lakshana Mahapurana in Kannada prose thus setting the trend for celebrated works of literature by Jaina scholars. The period of the Gangas also witnessed literary activity in Sanskrit, Prakrit and Kannada. Notable among these are a translation of Gunadhya?s Vaddakatha from Prakrit to Sanskrit as well as a commentary on Kiratarjunaaya by Durvinitha, a learned Ganga king. The literary zeal of the Jains continued well into the age of the Rashtrakutas, covering not only religion but also embracing many secular branches of learning including mathematics and astronomy. Giant literary figures like Pampa, Ponna and Ranna, thrived under the enlightened rule of the kings of this dynasty. Pampa?s works included Vikramarjuna Vijaya also known as Pampa Bharata, giving a Jaina version of the Mahabharata Adipurana, narrating the story of Rishabadeva, the first tirthankara. Another Jain, Ranna, was the author of Sahasra-Bhima-Vijaya, describing the fight between Bhima and Duryodhana. Neminatha Purana, a history of the 22nd tirthankara, interprets the story of Krishna and the Pandavas the Jaina way. Ganithasarasangraha was a work on mathematics by Mahaveera, under the patronage of Amoghavarsha I. Rare jain palm leaf manuscripts of 12th century A.D. known as ?Dhavala texts? were discovered in moodbidri basadi.During Mughal assaults, the old Jain texts were shifted from Shravanabelagola to the safer Moodbidri. Rediscovered in the 1800s, these Moodbidri Manuscripts ? Prakrit texts copied in old Hale-kannada script, with pinpricks on palm leaves ? are revered as the oldest (scribed circa 1,060 A.D.) written materials of the tradition going back to Arihant. The collection of 3 ancient manuscripts: Dhavala, Jayadhavala and Mahadhavala, collectively called the "Siddhanta" in Digambara tradition. For many centuries, the only copy of the Siddhanta was this collection. You can also check this link http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~pluralsm/affiliates/jainism/article/south.htm Thanx n' rgds Maligere > > > , Anantha Krishnan anantha_krishnan_98@ wrote:> > Re: Re: Ujjain (East-West costal connections) > > Dear Members: > As a corollary to this discussion, we have to remember that after the decline of Mauriya empire around 150-200 B.C and reemergence of the Hindu kingdoms in the North, Buddhist and Jain leaders had to move. Jain monks moved to the south while Buddhism started to spread across Asia, Ceylon (Sri Lanks), and Afganistan. Jain monks understood that the main method of attracting people in the south was thru their art and literature in their own language and their contribution has been tremendous. For example, Thiruvalluvar who gave the great moral classic Thirukural is said to have been a Jain follower. There were many others too and they flourished and developed the Tamil language till about 6 century A.D, Things changed with the advent of Pallava Empire. Mahendra Varma, the famous Pallava who routed Pulikesi in 630 AD or thereabouts was born as a Jain. With his conversion to Hinduism and due to his attachment to it, Jainism lost its foothold in the south and slowly waned.> Jainism flourished from 200 B.C. till about 700 A.D and all the three Tamil Kings, Chera, Chola, and the Pandyas have supported Jain monks and allowed them to practice, preach, and flourish. Even though I heard that Aryabhatta, a Jain scholar, was from Chera country for the first time in this group, it does not surprise me.> Best wishes> anantha krishnan> > > Sreenadh sreesog wrote: > Dear Sunil ji,> ==>> > But how come this kerala tradition very much associated with> > Varahamihira ?Other astronomical and mathematical tradition like arya> > bhatta and parameshwara schools we can know form history of kerala itself.> <== > It must be the AD 525 period of Aryabhata and his existence along with the Mihira of the same period that must have contributed the popularity of Mihira in Kerala. Two of them must have been scholars who were known through out India in that period especially due to the Nalanda learning center. > Not that "Aryardharatra siddhanta" of Aryabhata got translated into other languages and spread to other parts of the world through North-West (Afghanistan, Persia). Also note that the well know commentator of Mihira's books named Bhattolpala is from Kashmir, pointing to the fact that Mihira's books were well popular through out India even in that far past, possibly in the period of Mihira and Aryabhata himself . Also note that they where the prime scholars with at times mutually contradicting views about several things. (Remember the controversy between them about the latitude of Ujjain; Mihira referring to actual place Ujjain and Aryabhata using Ujjain as a mathematical reference word for a location among 4 places which are 90 degree apart at the 4 faces of earth). > May be the popularity of Mihira in Kerala has something to do with the migration of Jain and Ahi kula Naga cults which migrated from Gujrat/Malwa region to Kerala during that period and prior. > But I think there is one more point that should be noted -> * There is a clearly visible gap of more than 400 years from Aryabhatas and Mihira's period to the astrology books popular in Kerala as well as throughout in India.> Note that the oldest and popular texts on nirayana astrology originated in kerala mostly around 15th century AD (Krishneeyas, Prasnasara, Prasna anushtana paddhati, Prasnamarga, Dasadhyayi and so on). Similar is the case about the whole of India. After Mihira and before the commentries of Bhattolpala we don't find any authentic and datable texts originating in the scene. It is seems that indian astrology owes much to Bhattolpala of 10th century AD for popularizing Mihiras works by writing extensive commentries on the same. Bhattolpala lived in Kashmir, and even the prime texts of the second surge after Aryabhata (6th century) in kerala which happened around 15th century refers to Bhattolpala! So you can also ask the question - how come this kerala tradition very much assossiatd with or refers to Bhattolpala? And also the question why the Tantric priests of many temples of kerala are termed Bhat or Bhattarakas. It is the spreading of Tantric culture and the> migration of Tantric cults among the long distant locations such as (Kashmir, Gujrat, Orissa and Kerala) that caused this I feel. And why this migration? Because these where the 4 cardinal points within India where Tantric cults survived - in the past as well as today. > Love and regards,> Sreenadh> > > > > > > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search.> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 2008 Report Share Posted March 4, 2008 Dear Sreenadh, Tulu and Kerala had the same Warrior population known as Nayars/Nayaks with serpent as their deity. Caste of Aisvarya Rai, Bunts or so and Shettys identified themselves as Nairs in the past. Now the connection between the Kerala-Tulu socities is lost. These socities of the west coast is regarded as a Dravidian-Munda hybrid that migrated from Ram Nagar in the north (Nepal Border) where original Nagpur had its existence. As evidence to this migration theory, the pagoda or tibetan style architecture of Kerala temples is pointed out. Jainism may have played a role in the course of the migration. Title " Bhata " we see in Aryabhata, Vagbhata etc who were Jains, means a soldier. The caste name Bunts is said to have originated from Bhata. Some internet sites have detailed discussions on the issue. chandra hari , " Sreenadh " <sreesog wrote: > > Dear Maligere ji, > I went through your post and the link you provided, and found that > these links could provide more useful info on Jainisim and its > contributions. > * > http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~pluralsm/affiliates/jainism/article/toc.htm > <http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~pluralsm/affiliates/jainism/article/toc.htm\ \ > > > * http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~pluralsm/affiliates/jainism/ > <http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~pluralsm/affiliates/jainism/> > I request all members to explore this valuable link. > Love and regards, > Sreenadh > > , " M.A " maligere@ > wrote: > Re: Re: Ujjain (East-West costal connections) > Dear Members, Jainism in Karnataka flourished under the Ganga, the > Chalukya and Rashtrakuta dynasties. The Jain legacy in Karnataka can be > traced back to a great event that occurred in 297 BC when Chadragupta, > the founder of the Mauryan dynasty, abdicated his throne and came to > Sravanbelagola in Karnataka to become a Jain ascetic at the instance of > his mentor, Bhadrabahu. He breathed his last at this Jain centre and the > place where he is said to have sought recluse is appropriately name > Chandragiri. A basadi (Jain monastery or temple) at Sravanabelagola also > carries his name. In a number of later records he is referred to as > Pradbha Chandra Muni. Filled with visions of Jaina unity, Chaundaraya > the illustrious minister who served under the successive rulers of the > Gangas namely Marasimha II, Rachamalla IV and Rachamalla V was > instrumental in carving out the statue of Gommata, one of the > engineering marvels of the world at Sravanbelagola. A great scholar, he > was the author of Charitrasara in Sanskrit and Chaundaraya Purana or > Trishahti Lakshana Mahapurana in Kannada prose thus setting the trend > for celebrated works of literature by Jaina scholars. The period of the > Gangas also witnessed literary activity in Sanskrit, Prakrit and > Kannada. Notable among these are a translation of Gunadhya?s Vaddakatha > from Prakrit to Sanskrit as well as a commentary on Kiratarjunaaya by > Durvinitha, a learned Ganga king. The literary zeal of the Jains > continued well into the age of the Rashtrakutas, covering not only > religion but also embracing many secular branches of learning including > mathematics and astronomy. Giant literary figures like Pampa, Ponna and > Ranna, thrived under the enlightened rule of the kings of this dynasty. > Pampa?s works included Vikramarjuna Vijaya also known as Pampa Bharata, > giving a Jaina version of the Mahabharata Adipurana, narrating the story > of Rishabadeva, the first tirthankara. Another Jain, Ranna, was the > author of Sahasra-Bhima-Vijaya, describing the fight between Bhima and > Duryodhana. Neminatha Purana, a history of the 22nd tirthankara, > interprets the story of Krishna and the Pandavas the Jaina way. > Ganithasarasangraha was a work on mathematics by Mahaveera, under the > patronage of Amoghavarsha I. Rare jain palm leaf manuscripts of 12th > century A.D. known as ?Dhavala texts? were discovered in moodbidri > basadi.During Mughal assaults, the old Jain texts were shifted from > Shravanabelagola to the safer Moodbidri. Rediscovered in the 1800s, > these Moodbidri Manuscripts ? Prakrit texts copied in old Hale-kannada > script, with pinpricks on palm leaves ? are revered as the oldest > (scribed circa 1,060 A.D.) written materials of the tradition going back > to Arihant. The collection of 3 ancient manuscripts: Dhavala, > Jayadhavala and Mahadhavala, collectively called the " Siddhanta " in > Digambara tradition. For many centuries, the only copy of the Siddhanta > was this collection. > You can also check this link > http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~pluralsm/affiliates/jainism/article/south.ht\ \ > m > <http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~pluralsm/affiliates/jainism/article/south.h\ \ > tm> Thanx n' rgds Maligere > > > > > , Anantha Krishnan > anantha_krishnan_98@ wrote: > > > > Re: Re: Ujjain (East-West costal > connections) > > > > Dear Members: > > As a corollary to this discussion, we have to remember that after the > decline of Mauriya empire around 150-200 B.C and reemergence of the > Hindu kingdoms in the North, Buddhist and Jain leaders had to move. Jain > monks moved to the south while Buddhism started to spread across Asia, > Ceylon (Sri Lanks), and Afganistan. Jain monks understood that the main > method of attracting people in the south was thru their art and > literature in their own language and their contribution has been > tremendous. For example, Thiruvalluvar who gave the great moral classic > Thirukural is said to have been a Jain follower. There were many others > too and they flourished and developed the Tamil language till about 6 > century A.D, Things changed with the advent of Pallava Empire. Mahendra > Varma, the famous Pallava who routed Pulikesi in 630 AD or thereabouts > was born as a Jain. With his conversion to Hinduism and due to his > attachment to it, Jainism lost its foothold in the south and slowly > waned. > > Jainism flourished from 200 B.C. till about 700 A.D and all the three > Tamil Kings, Chera, Chola, and the Pandyas have supported Jain monks and > allowed them to practice, preach, and flourish. Even though I heard that > Aryabhatta, a Jain scholar, was from Chera country for the first time in > this group, it does not surprise me. > > Best wishes > > anantha krishnan > > > > > > Sreenadh sreesog@ wrote: > > Dear Sunil ji, > > ==> > > > But how come this kerala tradition very much associated with > > > Varahamihira ?Other astronomical and mathematical tradition like > arya > > > bhatta and parameshwara schools we can know form history of kerala > itself. > > <== > > It must be the AD 525 period of Aryabhata and his existence along with > the Mihira of the same period that must have contributed the popularity > of Mihira in Kerala. Two of them must have been scholars who were known > through out India in that period especially due to the Nalanda learning > center. > > Not that " Aryardharatra siddhanta " of Aryabhata got translated into > other languages and spread to other parts of the world through > North-West (Afghanistan, Persia). Also note that the well know > commentator of Mihira's books named Bhattolpala is from Kashmir, > pointing to the fact that Mihira's books were well popular through out > India even in that far past, possibly in the period of Mihira and > Aryabhata himself . Also note that they where the prime scholars with at > times mutually contradicting views about several things. (Remember the > controversy between them about the latitude of Ujjain; Mihira referring > to actual place Ujjain and Aryabhata using Ujjain as a mathematical > reference word for a location among 4 places which are 90 degree apart > at the 4 faces of earth). > > May be the popularity of Mihira in Kerala has something to do with the > migration of Jain and Ahi kula Naga cults which migrated from > Gujrat/Malwa region to Kerala during that period and prior. > > But I think there is one more point that should be noted - > > * There is a clearly visible gap of more than 400 years from > Aryabhatas and Mihira's period to the astrology books popular in Kerala > as well as throughout in India. > > Note that the oldest and popular texts on nirayana astrology > originated in kerala mostly around 15th century AD (Krishneeyas, > Prasnasara, Prasna anushtana paddhati, Prasnamarga, Dasadhyayi and so > on). Similar is the case about the whole of India. After Mihira and > before the commentries of Bhattolpala we don't find any authentic and > datable texts originating in the scene. It is seems that indian > astrology owes much to Bhattolpala of 10th century AD for popularizing > Mihiras works by writing extensive commentries on the same. Bhattolpala > lived in Kashmir, and even the prime texts of the second surge after > Aryabhata (6th century) in kerala which happened around 15th century > refers to Bhattolpala! So you can also ask the question - how come this > kerala tradition very much assossiatd with or refers to Bhattolpala? And > also the question why the Tantric priests of many temples of kerala are > termed Bhat or Bhattarakas. It is the spreading of Tantric culture > and the > > migration of Tantric cults among the long distant locations such as > (Kashmir, Gujrat, Orissa and Kerala) that caused this I feel. And why > this migration? Because these where the 4 cardinal points within India > where Tantric cults survived - in the past as well as today. > > Love and regards, > > Sreenadh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with > Search. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 2008 Report Share Posted March 4, 2008 hare rama krishna dear chandra hari ji I request u to read the book " prachina malayalam " written by brahma shri vidyadhi raja shri chattampi swamikal also in this regrd ,he has some diffrnt take and u can read it for better awareness ( may be sree nadh ji wont like it as he is his ancester [] ) may be it may giv some ideas on kerala culture and history . it also giv a gr8 account of devlpment of sanskrit and malayalam launagages. regrds sunil nair om shreem mahalaxmai namah . , " chandra_hari18 " <chandra_hari18 wrote: > > > Dear Sreenadh, > > Tulu and Kerala had the same Warrior population known as Nayars/Nayaks > with serpent as their deity. Caste of Aisvarya Rai, Bunts or so and > Shettys identified themselves as Nairs in the past. Now the connection > between the Kerala-Tulu socities is lost. These socities of the west > coast is regarded as a Dravidian-Munda hybrid that migrated from Ram > Nagar in the north (Nepal Border) where original Nagpur had its > existence. As evidence to this migration theory, the pagoda or tibetan > style architecture of Kerala temples is pointed out. > > Jainism may have played a role in the course of the migration. Title > " Bhata " we see in Aryabhata, Vagbhata etc who were Jains, means a > soldier. The caste name Bunts is said to have originated from Bhata. > > Some internet sites have detailed discussions on the issue. > > chandra hari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 2008 Report Share Posted March 4, 2008 Dear Chandra hari ji, Thanks for the vauable info. Love and regards, Sreenadh , " chandra_hari18 " <chandra_hari18 wrote: > > > Dear Sreenadh, > > Tulu and Kerala had the same Warrior population known as Nayars/ Nayaks > with serpent as their deity. Caste of Aisvarya Rai, Bunts or so and > Shettys identified themselves as Nairs in the past. Now the connection > between the Kerala-Tulu socities is lost. These socities of the west > coast is regarded as a Dravidian-Munda hybrid that migrated from Ram > Nagar in the north (Nepal Border) where original Nagpur had its > existence. As evidence to this migration theory, the pagoda or tibetan > style architecture of Kerala temples is pointed out. > > Jainism may have played a role in the course of the migration. Title > " Bhata " we see in Aryabhata, Vagbhata etc who were Jains, means a > soldier. The caste name Bunts is said to have originated from Bhata. > > Some internet sites have detailed discussions on the issue. > > chandra hari > > > > > , " Sreenadh " > <sreesog@> wrote: > > > > Dear Maligere ji, > > I went through your post and the link you provided, and found that > > these links could provide more useful info on Jainisim and its > > contributions. > > * > > > http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~pluralsm/affiliates/jainism/article/ toc.htm > > > <http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~pluralsm/affiliates/jainism/article/ toc.htm\ > \ > > > > > * http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~pluralsm/affiliates/jainism/ > > <http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~pluralsm/affiliates/jainism/> > > I request all members to explore this valuable link. > > Love and regards, > > Sreenadh > > > > , " M.A " maligere@ > > wrote: > > Re: Re: Ujjain (East-West costal > connections) > > Dear Members, Jainism in Karnataka flourished under the Ganga, the > > Chalukya and Rashtrakuta dynasties. The Jain legacy in Karnataka can > be > > traced back to a great event that occurred in 297 BC when Chadragupta, > > the founder of the Mauryan dynasty, abdicated his throne and came to > > Sravanbelagola in Karnataka to become a Jain ascetic at the instance > of > > his mentor, Bhadrabahu. He breathed his last at this Jain centre and > the > > place where he is said to have sought recluse is appropriately name > > Chandragiri. A basadi (Jain monastery or temple) at Sravanabelagola > also > > carries his name. In a number of later records he is referred to as > > Pradbha Chandra Muni. Filled with visions of Jaina unity, Chaundaraya > > the illustrious minister who served under the successive rulers of the > > Gangas namely Marasimha II, Rachamalla IV and Rachamalla V was > > instrumental in carving out the statue of Gommata, one of the > > engineering marvels of the world at Sravanbelagola. A great scholar, > he > > was the author of Charitrasara in Sanskrit and Chaundaraya Purana or > > Trishahti Lakshana Mahapurana in Kannada prose thus setting the trend > > for celebrated works of literature by Jaina scholars. The period of > the > > Gangas also witnessed literary activity in Sanskrit, Prakrit and > > Kannada. Notable among these are a translation of Gunadhya?s > Vaddakatha > > from Prakrit to Sanskrit as well as a commentary on Kiratarjunaaya by > > Durvinitha, a learned Ganga king. The literary zeal of the Jains > > continued well into the age of the Rashtrakutas, covering not only > > religion but also embracing many secular branches of learning > including > > mathematics and astronomy. Giant literary figures like Pampa, Ponna > and > > Ranna, thrived under the enlightened rule of the kings of this > dynasty. > > Pampa?s works included Vikramarjuna Vijaya also known as Pampa > Bharata, > > giving a Jaina version of the Mahabharata Adipurana, narrating the > story > > of Rishabadeva, the first tirthankara. Another Jain, Ranna, was the > > author of Sahasra-Bhima-Vijaya, describing the fight between Bhima and > > Duryodhana. Neminatha Purana, a history of the 22nd tirthankara, > > interprets the story of Krishna and the Pandavas the Jaina way. > > Ganithasarasangraha was a work on mathematics by Mahaveera, under the > > patronage of Amoghavarsha I. Rare jain palm leaf manuscripts of 12th > > century A.D. known as ?Dhavala texts? were discovered in moodbidri > > basadi.During Mughal assaults, the old Jain texts were shifted from > > Shravanabelagola to the safer Moodbidri. Rediscovered in the 1800s, > > these Moodbidri Manuscripts ? Prakrit texts copied in old Hale- kannada > > script, with pinpricks on palm leaves ? are revered as the oldest > > (scribed circa 1,060 A.D.) written materials of the tradition going > back > > to Arihant. The collection of 3 ancient manuscripts: Dhavala, > > Jayadhavala and Mahadhavala, collectively called the " Siddhanta " in > > Digambara tradition. For many centuries, the only copy of the > Siddhanta > > was this collection. > > You can also check this link > > > http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~pluralsm/affiliates/jainism/article/ south.ht\ > \ > > m > > > <http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~pluralsm/affiliates/jainism/article/ south.h\ > \ > > tm> Thanx n' rgds Maligere > > > > > > > , Anantha Krishnan > > anantha_krishnan_98@ wrote: > > > > > > Re: Re: Ujjain (East-West costal > > connections) > > > > > > Dear Members: > > > As a corollary to this discussion, we have to remember that after > the > > decline of Mauriya empire around 150-200 B.C and reemergence of the > > Hindu kingdoms in the North, Buddhist and Jain leaders had to move. > Jain > > monks moved to the south while Buddhism started to spread across Asia, > > Ceylon (Sri Lanks), and Afganistan. Jain monks understood that the > main > > method of attracting people in the south was thru their art and > > literature in their own language and their contribution has been > > tremendous. For example, Thiruvalluvar who gave the great moral > classic > > Thirukural is said to have been a Jain follower. There were many > others > > too and they flourished and developed the Tamil language till about 6 > > century A.D, Things changed with the advent of Pallava Empire. > Mahendra > > Varma, the famous Pallava who routed Pulikesi in 630 AD or thereabouts > > was born as a Jain. With his conversion to Hinduism and due to his > > attachment to it, Jainism lost its foothold in the south and slowly > > waned. > > > Jainism flourished from 200 B.C. till about 700 A.D and all the > three > > Tamil Kings, Chera, Chola, and the Pandyas have supported Jain monks > and > > allowed them to practice, preach, and flourish. Even though I heard > that > > Aryabhatta, a Jain scholar, was from Chera country for the first time > in > > this group, it does not surprise me. > > > Best wishes > > > anantha krishnan > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh sreesog@ wrote: > > > Dear Sunil ji, > > > ==> > > > > But how come this kerala tradition very much associated with > > > > Varahamihira ?Other astronomical and mathematical tradition like > > arya > > > > bhatta and parameshwara schools we can know form history of kerala > > itself. > > > <== > > > It must be the AD 525 period of Aryabhata and his existence along > with > > the Mihira of the same period that must have contributed the > popularity > > of Mihira in Kerala. Two of them must have been scholars who were > known > > through out India in that period especially due to the Nalanda > learning > > center. > > > Not that " Aryardharatra siddhanta " of Aryabhata got translated into > > other languages and spread to other parts of the world through > > North-West (Afghanistan, Persia). Also note that the well know > > commentator of Mihira's books named Bhattolpala is from Kashmir, > > pointing to the fact that Mihira's books were well popular through out > > India even in that far past, possibly in the period of Mihira and > > Aryabhata himself . Also note that they where the prime scholars with > at > > times mutually contradicting views about several things. (Remember the > > controversy between them about the latitude of Ujjain; Mihira > referring > > to actual place Ujjain and Aryabhata using Ujjain as a mathematical > > reference word for a location among 4 places which are 90 degree apart > > at the 4 faces of earth). > > > May be the popularity of Mihira in Kerala has something to do with > the > > migration of Jain and Ahi kula Naga cults which migrated from > > Gujrat/Malwa region to Kerala during that period and prior. > > > But I think there is one more point that should be noted - > > > * There is a clearly visible gap of more than 400 years from > > Aryabhatas and Mihira's period to the astrology books popular in > Kerala > > as well as throughout in India. > > > Note that the oldest and popular texts on nirayana astrology > > originated in kerala mostly around 15th century AD (Krishneeyas, > > Prasnasara, Prasna anushtana paddhati, Prasnamarga, Dasadhyayi and so > > on). Similar is the case about the whole of India. After Mihira and > > before the commentries of Bhattolpala we don't find any authentic and > > datable texts originating in the scene. It is seems that indian > > astrology owes much to Bhattolpala of 10th century AD for popularizing > > Mihiras works by writing extensive commentries on the same. > Bhattolpala > > lived in Kashmir, and even the prime texts of the second surge after > > Aryabhata (6th century) in kerala which happened around 15th century > > refers to Bhattolpala! So you can also ask the question - how come > this > > kerala tradition very much assossiatd with or refers to Bhattolpala? > And > > also the question why the Tantric priests of many temples of kerala > are > > termed Bhat or Bhattarakas. It is the spreading of Tantric culture > > and the > > > migration of Tantric cults among the long distant locations such as > > (Kashmir, Gujrat, Orissa and Kerala) that caused this I feel. And why > > this migration? Because these where the 4 cardinal points within India > > where Tantric cults survived - in the past as well as today. > > > Love and regards, > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with > > Search. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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