Guest guest Posted December 5, 2007 Report Share Posted December 5, 2007 >>>Now what is not an illusion??? The unmanifest niarakara, nirguna, nitya - GOD Regards, Krishnajyothi_b_lakshmi <jyothi_b_lakshmi wrote: Dear Sir,If Time is an illusion, then shouldnt astrolgy which is based on time be also an illusion? )Time = breath.Then, by the rule of induction, All organisms that breath are illusions, so we all human beings and animals are illusions. Plants also breath, so they are also illusions. Now what is not an illusion???May be only the inanimate things, rocks, stones are not illusions??. Oh No, how do we see the rocks and other inanimate things in this world? Because we breathe, thereby we exist and thereby we see. So as long as we are illusions all that our senses create are also illusions and the inanimate things are the creation of our senses (imagine a world of all blind, for them there wont be any rocks or flowers)are also illusions.Final output: Everything is an illusion!!May be thats why Lord Krishna said "Everything is a Maya" ))Regards,Jyothi , "chandra_hari18" <chandra_hari18 wrote:>> > Dear Sreenadh,> > I think your observation is not correct. Karma theory is fundamental to> astrology. What is time? Time is an illusion. How time operates? Time is> constituted of the 5 tattvas and bhutas in successive micro and macro> levels (terminology is difficult to mind) and the Bhuta -ghatana imparts> special qualities for moments which reflect destiny. Karma is the factor> that decides Bhuta-ghatana and Karma catches up with the individual> through breath which has a specific bhuta or tattva pattern.> > Because of the above reason, first breath or cry is the true birth time.> First cry is the siren of Karma- Prarabdham for which horoscope is made.> > chandra hari> > > > > > > , "Sreenadh"> <sreesog@> wrote:> >> > Dear Jagdish ji and Srinivas ji,> > Being an astrology group, I have a simple question - Is there ANY> > Rishi hora slokas (astrological quotes) that supports Karma theory> > before the laghu jataka (attributed to Mihira) which> > reads 'Edupachitam anya janmani ....." etc. The point I want to> > emphasize is there is NO Rishi Hora sloka that support Karma theory> > available!> > As per astrology - time is the cause behind; As per Vedanta it is> > Karma theory; As per Ayurveda it is the innate nature; as per Sankhya> > it is Purusha - and so on. The various knowledge branches had there> > own philosophical approach (and astrology has its own unique> > philosophical approach for sure) - and the mixing of adopted theories> > such as Karma theory into astrology is NOT in tune with the vision of> > the sages who wrote Horas on astrology - this is my opinion.> > Note: If we want to follow Rishi horas we may have to drop Karma> > theory. > > Love and regards,> > Sreenadh> >> > , Prathamesn Chawan> > upaoakcrest@ wrote:> > >> > > Dear Srinivas Ji> > >> > > Greetings> > >> > >> > > Lord Krishna had fatal attacks on his life. Krishna was a lord> > itself. What karma he did in his last life (which is not there) so> > that he got such a dangerous childhood ?> > >> > > What karma Jesus did ? He suffered a lot.> > >> > > Well, who made this karma or came up with this concept of Karma ?> > What was his desire ? If its God, then what does he want from human> > being ?> > >> > > Even if we believe that Karma theory ( supported by Gita) is true> > then it means that we are slave of a rule. Who made us slave of the> > rule ?> > >> > > There are many more question in my mind to ask you. Well, i am> > asking because of my planetary positions (19:13, Ghaziabad - UP, 25-> > August-1981).> > >> > > I think a lot on all these questions and try to justify or> > counter-argue with myself on these question. But never got a> > satisfied reason.> > >> > > Thanks> > >> > > Jagdish> > >> > >> > >> > > Sreenadh sreesog@ wrote: Dear Srinivas ji,> > > ==>> > > > karma burning ....> > > <==> > > I wonder - is it some thing like Firewood?! :=)> > > Love and hugs,> > > Sreenadh> > >> > > , "sreeram srinivas"> > > <sreeram64@> wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Chawan saab,> > > >> > > > I respect your views and hence the pleasure of disagreeing with> > > > you....!!....Going by your logics, one can put lot of excuses to> > one's> > > > Boss in office....!!! and stand a sure chance of losing the> > job....!!!> > > >> > > > Well not everything is destiny.....for ordinary mortals - yes who> > are> > > > resigned to fate, for those with a thinking mind....it is not> > so.....!!> > > >> > > > Everything is cause and reaction......and upholding of> > dharma....!! In> > > > mahabharat...Lord Krishna instructs Arjun... - you duty is to> > shoot> > > > arrows......to ensure that the arrows hit the enemy is my> > job..... to> > > > upload dharma in daily life is one's prerogative......the> > examples you> > > > have are in principle are bad {using a milder word !!}....to stop> > the> > > > karmic cycle....by perpetuating the reaction is where the real> > karma or> > > > dharma lies....> > > >> > > > Kindly read the hindu scriptures in english language shall> > provide the> > > > weblinks on it tomorrow...the karmic law cannot be overruled even> > by> > > > great saints....it has to be satisfied.....prayers & guru's help> > in> > > > overcoming it...or advanced yogis, transfer the karma on to> > themselves> > > > through yogic methods to protect their disciples......does Jesus> > really> > > > deserve the type of crucification death...??? for his simple> > > > preachings....surely NOT> > > >> > > > Normally the karma burning is very slow for ordinary people...but> > people> > > > who are already on dharma....it burns must faster...hurdles are> > > > more....you are repaying your debts of next life now> > itself.....!! see> > > > my karma accounting theories in the archives.....> > > >> > > > ....got to for dinner...getting late...will continue> > tomorrow.....on> > > > this....consider this as part-1> > > >> > > > with regards> > > >> > > > sreeram srinivas> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > , Prathamesn Chawan> > > > <upaoakcrest@> wrote:> > > >> > > > I feel more sorry if someone proves that astrology is 100% true. I> > > > havent got the answer of this question so far. If astrology is> > 100% true> > > > then an able astrologer can predict everything about your future.> > If> > > > that happens then there is nothing good or bad or evil.> > > >> > > > A rapist is as good as a the victim. Rapist was supposed to rape> > > > according to planetary conditions in his chart and victim was> > supposed> > > > to be victim according to her chart. It means Harshad Mehta,> > > > Daud-Abrahim, Chotta Shakil and all the people from underworld or> > > > indulge in illegal activities are not bad. They are acting as> > they are> > > > destined.> > > >> > > > A husband who beats his wife daily is not a bad person. Wife was> > > > destined to suffer and husband was supposed to be the aggresive> > and> > > > voilent ?> > > >> > > > Can anyone tell me how much is in human hand and how much is in> > the hand> > > > of destiny ? After reading many books of K. N. Rao, i feel that> > its all> > > > destiny.> > > >> > > >> > > > Thanks> > > >> > > > Jagdish> > > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make your> > homepage.> > >> >> Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 6, 2007 Report Share Posted December 6, 2007 Dear Jyothi,As per Advaitha Vedanta, there is only one that exists, that is Parabrahman.And others that we see or hear is Maya, i.e., Illusion. Even though they appear to exist, but they are not. They are impermanent and perish in some time. Thats why it is said,Brahma satyam - Jaganmithya.Regards,D.Ramakrishnan. jyothi_b_lakshmi <jyothi_b_lakshmi wrote: Dear Sir, If Time is an illusion, then shouldnt astrolgy which is based on time be also an illusion? ) Time = breath. Then, by the rule of induction, All organisms that breath are illusions, so we all human beings and animals are illusions. Plants also breath, so they are also illusions. Now what is not an illusion??? May be only the inanimate things, rocks, stones are not illusions??. Oh No, how do we see the rocks and other inanimate things in this world? Because we breathe, thereby we exist and thereby we see. So as long as we are illusions all that our senses create are also illusions and the inanimate things are the creation of our senses (imagine a world of all blind, for them there wont be any rocks or flowers)are also illusions. Final output: Everything is an illusion!! May be thats why Lord Krishna said "Everything is a Maya" )) Regards, Jyothi , "chandra_hari18" <chandra_hari18 wrote: > > > Dear Sreenadh, > > I think your observation is not correct. Karma theory is fundamental to > astrology. What is time? Time is an illusion. How time operates? Time is > constituted of the 5 tattvas and bhutas in successive micro and macro > levels (terminology is difficult to mind) and the Bhuta -ghatana imparts > special qualities for moments which reflect destiny. Karma is the factor > that decides Bhuta-ghatana and Karma catches up with the individual > through breath which has a specific bhuta or tattva pattern. > > Because of the above reason, first breath or cry is the true birth time. > First cry is the siren of Karma- Prarabdham for which horoscope is made. > > chandra hari > > > > > > > , "Sreenadh" > <sreesog@> wrote: > > > > Dear Jagdish ji and Srinivas ji, > > Being an astrology group, I have a simple question - Is there ANY > > Rishi hora slokas (astrological quotes) that supports Karma theory > > before the laghu jataka (attributed to Mihira) which > > reads 'Edupachitam anya janmani ....." etc. The point I want to > > emphasize is there is NO Rishi Hora sloka that support Karma theory > > available! > > As per astrology - time is the cause behind; As per Vedanta it is > > Karma theory; As per Ayurveda it is the innate nature; as per Sankhya > > it is Purusha - and so on. The various knowledge branches had there > > own philosophical approach (and astrology has its own unique > > philosophical approach for sure) - and the mixing of adopted theories > > such as Karma theory into astrology is NOT in tune with the vision of > > the sages who wrote Horas on astrology - this is my opinion. > > Note: If we want to follow Rishi horas we may have to drop Karma > > theory. > > Love and regards, > > Sreenadh > > > > , Prathamesn Chawan > > upaoakcrest@ wrote: > > > > > > Dear Srinivas Ji > > > > > > Greetings > > > > > > > > > Lord Krishna had fatal attacks on his life. Krishna was a lord > > itself. What karma he did in his last life (which is not there) so > > that he got such a dangerous childhood ? > > > > > > What karma Jesus did ? He suffered a lot. > > > > > > Well, who made this karma or came up with this concept of Karma ? > > What was his desire ? If its God, then what does he want from human > > being ? > > > > > > Even if we believe that Karma theory ( supported by Gita) is true > > then it means that we are slave of a rule. Who made us slave of the > > rule ? > > > > > > There are many more question in my mind to ask you. Well, i am > > asking because of my planetary positions (19:13, Ghaziabad - UP, 25- > > August-1981). > > > > > > I think a lot on all these questions and try to justify or > > counter-argue with myself on these question. But never got a > > satisfied reason. > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > Jagdish > > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh sreesog@ wrote: Dear Srinivas ji, > > > ==> > > > > karma burning .... > > > <== > > > I wonder - is it some thing like Firewood?! :=) > > > Love and hugs, > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > , "sreeram srinivas" > > > <sreeram64@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Chawan saab, > > > > > > > > I respect your views and hence the pleasure of disagreeing with > > > > you....!!....Going by your logics, one can put lot of excuses to > > one's > > > > Boss in office....!!! and stand a sure chance of losing the > > job....!!! > > > > > > > > Well not everything is destiny.....for ordinary mortals - yes who > > are > > > > resigned to fate, for those with a thinking mind....it is not > > so.....!! > > > > > > > > Everything is cause and reaction......and upholding of > > dharma....!! In > > > > mahabharat...Lord Krishna instructs Arjun... - you duty is to > > shoot > > > > arrows......to ensure that the arrows hit the enemy is my > > job..... to > > > > upload dharma in daily life is one's prerogative......the > > examples you > > > > have are in principle are bad {using a milder word !!}....to stop > > the > > > > karmic cycle....by perpetuating the reaction is where the real > > karma or > > > > dharma lies.... > > > > > > > > Kindly read the hindu scriptures in english language shall > > provide the > > > > weblinks on it tomorrow...the karmic law cannot be overruled even > > by > > > > great saints....it has to be satisfied.....prayers & guru's help > > in > > > > overcoming it...or advanced yogis, transfer the karma on to > > themselves > > > > through yogic methods to protect their disciples......does Jesus > > really > > > > deserve the type of crucification death...??? for his simple > > > > preachings....surely NOT > > > > > > > > Normally the karma burning is very slow for ordinary people...but > > people > > > > who are already on dharma....it burns must faster...hurdles are > > > > more....you are repaying your debts of next life now > > itself.....!! see > > > > my karma accounting theories in the archives..... > > > > > > > > ....got to for dinner...getting late...will continue > > tomorrow.....on > > > > this....consider this as part-1 > > > > > > > > with regards > > > > > > > > sreeram srinivas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Prathamesn Chawan > > > > <upaoakcrest@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I feel more sorry if someone proves that astrology is 100% true. I > > > > havent got the answer of this question so far. If astrology is > > 100% true > > > > then an able astrologer can predict everything about your future. > > If > > > > that happens then there is nothing good or bad or evil. > > > > > > > > A rapist is as good as a the victim. Rapist was supposed to rape > > > > according to planetary conditions in his chart and victim was > > supposed > > > > to be victim according to her chart. It means Harshad Mehta, > > > > Daud-Abrahim, Chotta Shakil and all the people from underworld or > > > > indulge in illegal activities are not bad. They are acting as > > they are > > > > destined. > > > > > > > > A husband who beats his wife daily is not a bad person. Wife was > > > > destined to suffer and husband was supposed to be the aggresive > > and > > > > voilent ? > > > > > > > > Can anyone tell me how much is in human hand and how much is in > > the hand > > > > of destiny ? After reading many books of K. N. Rao, i feel that > > its all > > > > destiny. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > Jagdish > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make your > > homepage. > > > > > > Bollywood, fun, friendship, sports and more. You name it, we have it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 6, 2007 Report Share Posted December 6, 2007 Parabrahmam + Maya = 1+1 = 2 or 1? Is it Advaitam or Dvaitam? chandra hari , r_vani ramakrishnan <r_vani61 wrote: > > Dear Jyothi, > As per Advaitha Vedanta, there is only one that exists, that is Parabrahman. > And others that we see or hear is Maya, i.e., Illusion. Even though they appear to exist, but they are not. They are impermanent and perish in some time. Thats why it is said, > Brahma satyam - Jaganmithya. > Regards, > D.Ramakrishnan. > > jyothi_b_lakshmi jyothi_b_lakshmi wrote: Dear Sir, > > If Time is an illusion, then shouldnt astrolgy which is based on > time be also an illusion? ) > > Time = breath. > Then, by the rule of induction, > All organisms that breath are illusions, so we all human beings and > animals are illusions. > Plants also breath, so they are also illusions. > Now what is not an illusion??? > > May be only the inanimate things, rocks, stones are not illusions??. > Oh No, how do we see the rocks and other inanimate things in this > world? Because we breathe, thereby we exist and thereby we see. So > as long as we are illusions all that our senses create are also > illusions and the inanimate things are the creation of our senses > (imagine a world of all blind, for them there wont be any rocks or > flowers)are also illusions. > > Final output: Everything is an illusion!! > > May be thats why Lord Krishna said " Everything is a Maya " )) > > Regards, > Jyothi > > , " chandra_hari18 " > chandra_hari18@ wrote: > > > > > > Dear Sreenadh, > > > > I think your observation is not correct. Karma theory is > fundamental to > > astrology. What is time? Time is an illusion. How time operates? > Time is > > constituted of the 5 tattvas and bhutas in successive micro and > macro > > levels (terminology is difficult to mind) and the Bhuta -ghatana > imparts > > special qualities for moments which reflect destiny. Karma is the > factor > > that decides Bhuta-ghatana and Karma catches up with the individual > > through breath which has a specific bhuta or tattva pattern. > > > > Because of the above reason, first breath or cry is the true birth > time. > > First cry is the siren of Karma- Prarabdham for which horoscope is > made. > > > > chandra hari > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " Sreenadh " > > <sreesog@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Jagdish ji and Srinivas ji, > > > Being an astrology group, I have a simple question - Is there ANY > > > Rishi hora slokas (astrological quotes) that supports Karma > theory > > > before the laghu jataka (attributed to Mihira) which > > > reads 'Edupachitam anya janmani ..... " etc. The point I want to > > > emphasize is there is NO Rishi Hora sloka that support Karma > theory > > > available! > > > As per astrology - time is the cause behind; As per Vedanta it is > > > Karma theory; As per Ayurveda it is the innate nature; as per > Sankhya > > > it is Purusha - and so on. The various knowledge branches had > there > > > own philosophical approach (and astrology has its own unique > > > philosophical approach for sure) - and the mixing of adopted > theories > > > such as Karma theory into astrology is NOT in tune with the > vision of > > > the sages who wrote Horas on astrology - this is my opinion. > > > Note: If we want to follow Rishi horas we may have to drop Karma > > > theory. > > > Love and regards, > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > , Prathamesn > Chawan > > > upaoakcrest@ wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Srinivas Ji > > > > > > > > Greetings > > > > > > > > > > > > Lord Krishna had fatal attacks on his life. Krishna was a lord > > > itself. What karma he did in his last life (which is not there) > so > > > that he got such a dangerous childhood ? > > > > > > > > What karma Jesus did ? He suffered a lot. > > > > > > > > Well, who made this karma or came up with this concept of > Karma ? > > > What was his desire ? If its God, then what does he want from > human > > > being ? > > > > > > > > Even if we believe that Karma theory ( supported by Gita) is > true > > > then it means that we are slave of a rule. Who made us slave of > the > > > rule ? > > > > > > > > There are many more question in my mind to ask you. Well, i am > > > asking because of my planetary positions (19:13, Ghaziabad - UP, > 25- > > > August-1981). > > > > > > > > I think a lot on all these questions and try to justify or > > > counter-argue with myself on these question. But never got a > > > satisfied reason. > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > Jagdish > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh sreesog@ wrote: Dear Srinivas ji, > > > > ==> > > > > > karma burning .... > > > > <== > > > > I wonder - is it some thing like Firewood?! :=) > > > > Love and hugs, > > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > > > , " sreeram > srinivas " > > > > <sreeram64@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Chawan saab, > > > > > > > > > > I respect your views and hence the pleasure of disagreeing > with > > > > > you....!!....Going by your logics, one can put lot of > excuses to > > > one's > > > > > Boss in office....!!! and stand a sure chance of losing the > > > job....!!! > > > > > > > > > > Well not everything is destiny.....for ordinary mortals - > yes who > > > are > > > > > resigned to fate, for those with a thinking mind....it is not > > > so.....!! > > > > > > > > > > Everything is cause and reaction......and upholding of > > > dharma....!! In > > > > > mahabharat...Lord Krishna instructs Arjun... - you duty is to > > > shoot > > > > > arrows......to ensure that the arrows hit the enemy is my > > > job..... to > > > > > upload dharma in daily life is one's prerogative......the > > > examples you > > > > > have are in principle are bad {using a milder word !!}....to > stop > > > the > > > > > karmic cycle....by perpetuating the reaction is where the > real > > > karma or > > > > > dharma lies.... > > > > > > > > > > Kindly read the hindu scriptures in english language shall > > > provide the > > > > > weblinks on it tomorrow...the karmic law cannot be overruled > even > > > by > > > > > great saints....it has to be satisfied.....prayers & guru's > help > > > in > > > > > overcoming it...or advanced yogis, transfer the karma on to > > > themselves > > > > > through yogic methods to protect their disciples......does > Jesus > > > really > > > > > deserve the type of crucification death...??? for his simple > > > > > preachings....surely NOT > > > > > > > > > > Normally the karma burning is very slow for ordinary > people...but > > > people > > > > > who are already on dharma....it burns must faster...hurdles > are > > > > > more....you are repaying your debts of next life now > > > itself.....!! see > > > > > my karma accounting theories in the archives..... > > > > > > > > > > ....got to for dinner...getting late...will continue > > > tomorrow.....on > > > > > this....consider this as part-1 > > > > > > > > > > with regards > > > > > > > > > > sreeram srinivas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Prathamesn > Chawan > > > > > <upaoakcrest@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I feel more sorry if someone proves that astrology is 100% > true. I > > > > > havent got the answer of this question so far. If astrology > is > > > 100% true > > > > > then an able astrologer can predict everything about your > future. > > > If > > > > > that happens then there is nothing good or bad or evil. > > > > > > > > > > A rapist is as good as a the victim. Rapist was supposed to > rape > > > > > according to planetary conditions in his chart and victim was > > > supposed > > > > > to be victim according to her chart. It means Harshad Mehta, > > > > > Daud-Abrahim, Chotta Shakil and all the people from > underworld or > > > > > indulge in illegal activities are not bad. They are acting as > > > they are > > > > > destined. > > > > > > > > > > A husband who beats his wife daily is not a bad person. Wife > was > > > > > destined to suffer and husband was supposed to be the > aggresive > > > and > > > > > voilent ? > > > > > > > > > > Can anyone tell me how much is in human hand and how much is > in > > > the hand > > > > > of destiny ? After reading many books of K. N. Rao, i feel > that > > > its all > > > > > destiny. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > > > Jagdish > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make your > > > homepage. > > > > > > > > > > Bollywood, fun, friendship, sports and more. You name it, we have it. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 6, 2007 Report Share Posted December 6, 2007 Dear All, This is not forum related to dvitam or advitam.this is about the science of past,present and future of the human beings.here we are attempting to predict past and future events in human lifes.when one realises what he is and whu he is,then he can only say about maya.time is there.hence future is there.the one that is beyond the present,past and future is parabrahman.this is what i understood. regards, subrahmanyam --- chandra_hari18 <chandra_hari18 wrote: > > Parabrahmam + Maya = 1+1 = 2 or 1? Is it Advaitam or > Dvaitam? > > chandra hari > > > , > r_vani ramakrishnan > <r_vani61 wrote: > > > > Dear Jyothi, > > As per Advaitha Vedanta, there is only one that > exists, that is > Parabrahman. > > And others that we see or hear is Maya, i.e., > Illusion. Even though > they appear to exist, but they are not. They are > impermanent and perish > in some time. Thats why it is said, > > Brahma satyam - Jaganmithya. > > Regards, > > D.Ramakrishnan. > > > > jyothi_b_lakshmi jyothi_b_lakshmi wrote: Dear > Sir, > > > > If Time is an illusion, then shouldnt astrolgy > which is based on > > time be also an illusion? ) > > > > Time = breath. > > Then, by the rule of induction, > > All organisms that breath are illusions, so we all > human beings and > > animals are illusions. > > Plants also breath, so they are also illusions. > > Now what is not an illusion??? > > > > May be only the inanimate things, rocks, stones > are not illusions??. > > Oh No, how do we see the rocks and other inanimate > things in this > > world? Because we breathe, thereby we exist and > thereby we see. So > > as long as we are illusions all that our senses > create are also > > illusions and the inanimate things are the > creation of our senses > > (imagine a world of all blind, for them there wont > be any rocks or > > flowers)are also illusions. > > > > Final output: Everything is an illusion!! > > > > May be thats why Lord Krishna said " Everything is > a Maya " )) > > > > Regards, > > Jyothi > > > > , > " chandra_hari18 " > > chandra_hari18@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > Dear Sreenadh, > > > > > > I think your observation is not correct. Karma > theory is > > fundamental to > > > astrology. What is time? Time is an illusion. > How time operates? > > Time is > > > constituted of the 5 tattvas and bhutas in > successive micro and > > macro > > > levels (terminology is difficult to mind) and > the Bhuta -ghatana > > imparts > > > special qualities for moments which reflect > destiny. Karma is the > > factor > > > that decides Bhuta-ghatana and Karma catches up > with the individual > > > through breath which has a specific bhuta or > tattva pattern. > > > > > > Because of the above reason, first breath or cry > is the true birth > > time. > > > First cry is the siren of Karma- Prarabdham for > which horoscope is > > made. > > > > > > chandra hari > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , > " Sreenadh " > > > <sreesog@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Jagdish ji and Srinivas ji, > > > > Being an astrology group, I have a simple > question - Is there ANY > > > > Rishi hora slokas (astrological quotes) that > supports Karma > > theory > > > > before the laghu jataka (attributed to Mihira) > which > > > > reads 'Edupachitam anya janmani ..... " etc. > The point I want to > > > > emphasize is there is NO Rishi Hora sloka that > support Karma > > theory > > > > available! > > > > As per astrology - time is the cause behind; > As per Vedanta it is > > > > Karma theory; As per Ayurveda it is the innate > nature; as per > > Sankhya > > > > it is Purusha - and so on. The various > knowledge branches had > > there > > > > own philosophical approach (and astrology has > its own unique > > > > philosophical approach for sure) - and the > mixing of adopted > > theories > > > > such as Karma theory into astrology is NOT in > tune with the > > vision of > > > > the sages who wrote Horas on astrology - this > is my opinion. > > > > Note: If we want to follow Rishi horas we may > have to drop Karma > > > > theory. > > > > Love and regards, > > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > > > --- In > , Prathamesn > > Chawan > > > > upaoakcrest@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Srinivas Ji > > > > > > > > > > Greetings > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lord Krishna had fatal attacks on his life. > Krishna was a lord > > > > itself. What karma he did in his last life > (which is not there) > > so > > > > that he got such a dangerous childhood ? > > > > > > > > > > What karma Jesus did ? He suffered a lot. > > > > > > > > > > Well, who made this karma or came up with > this concept of > > Karma ? > > > > What was his desire ? If its God, then what > does he want from > > human > > > > being ? > > > > > > > > > > Even if we believe that Karma theory ( > supported by Gita) is > > true > > > > then it means that we are slave of a rule. Who > made us slave of > > the > > > > rule ? > > > > > > > > > > There are many more question in my mind to > ask you. Well, i am > > > > asking because of my planetary positions > (19:13, Ghaziabad - UP, > > 25- > > > > August-1981). > > > > > > > > > > I think a lot on all these questions and try > to justify or > > > > counter-argue with myself on these question. > But never got a > > > > satisfied reason. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > > > Jagdish > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh sreesog@ wrote: Dear Srinivas ji, > > > > > ==> > > > > > > karma burning .... > === message truncated === ______________________________\ ____ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search. http://tools.search./newsearch/category.php?category=shopping Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 6, 2007 Report Share Posted December 6, 2007 My version: Parabrahmam + Maya = 1/2 + 1/2 = 1 (Adwaitam) Jyothi , " chandra_hari18 " <chandra_hari18 wrote: > > > Parabrahmam + Maya = 1+1 = 2 or 1? Is it Advaitam or Dvaitam? > > chandra hari > > > , r_vani ramakrishnan > <r_vani61@> wrote: > > > > Dear Jyothi, > > As per Advaitha Vedanta, there is only one that exists, that is > Parabrahman. > > And others that we see or hear is Maya, i.e., Illusion. Even though > they appear to exist, but they are not. They are impermanent and perish > in some time. Thats why it is said, > > Brahma satyam - Jaganmithya. > > Regards, > > D.Ramakrishnan. > > > > jyothi_b_lakshmi jyothi_b_lakshmi@ wrote: Dear Sir, > > > > If Time is an illusion, then shouldnt astrolgy which is based on > > time be also an illusion? ) > > > > Time = breath. > > Then, by the rule of induction, > > All organisms that breath are illusions, so we all human beings and > > animals are illusions. > > Plants also breath, so they are also illusions. > > Now what is not an illusion??? > > > > May be only the inanimate things, rocks, stones are not illusions??. > > Oh No, how do we see the rocks and other inanimate things in this > > world? Because we breathe, thereby we exist and thereby we see. So > > as long as we are illusions all that our senses create are also > > illusions and the inanimate things are the creation of our senses > > (imagine a world of all blind, for them there wont be any rocks or > > flowers)are also illusions. > > > > Final output: Everything is an illusion!! > > > > May be thats why Lord Krishna said " Everything is a Maya " )) > > > > Regards, > > Jyothi > > > > , " chandra_hari18 " > > chandra_hari18@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > Dear Sreenadh, > > > > > > I think your observation is not correct. Karma theory is > > fundamental to > > > astrology. What is time? Time is an illusion. How time operates? > > Time is > > > constituted of the 5 tattvas and bhutas in successive micro and > > macro > > > levels (terminology is difficult to mind) and the Bhuta - ghatana > > imparts > > > special qualities for moments which reflect destiny. Karma is the > > factor > > > that decides Bhuta-ghatana and Karma catches up with the individual > > > through breath which has a specific bhuta or tattva pattern. > > > > > > Because of the above reason, first breath or cry is the true birth > > time. > > > First cry is the siren of Karma- Prarabdham for which horoscope is > > made. > > > > > > chandra hari > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " Sreenadh " > > > <sreesog@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Jagdish ji and Srinivas ji, > > > > Being an astrology group, I have a simple question - Is there ANY > > > > Rishi hora slokas (astrological quotes) that supports Karma > > theory > > > > before the laghu jataka (attributed to Mihira) which > > > > reads 'Edupachitam anya janmani ..... " etc. The point I want to > > > > emphasize is there is NO Rishi Hora sloka that support Karma > > theory > > > > available! > > > > As per astrology - time is the cause behind; As per Vedanta it is > > > > Karma theory; As per Ayurveda it is the innate nature; as per > > Sankhya > > > > it is Purusha - and so on. The various knowledge branches had > > there > > > > own philosophical approach (and astrology has its own unique > > > > philosophical approach for sure) - and the mixing of adopted > > theories > > > > such as Karma theory into astrology is NOT in tune with the > > vision of > > > > the sages who wrote Horas on astrology - this is my opinion. > > > > Note: If we want to follow Rishi horas we may have to drop Karma > > > > theory. > > > > Love and regards, > > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > > > , Prathamesn > > Chawan > > > > upaoakcrest@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Srinivas Ji > > > > > > > > > > Greetings > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lord Krishna had fatal attacks on his life. Krishna was a lord > > > > itself. What karma he did in his last life (which is not there) > > so > > > > that he got such a dangerous childhood ? > > > > > > > > > > What karma Jesus did ? He suffered a lot. > > > > > > > > > > Well, who made this karma or came up with this concept of > > Karma ? > > > > What was his desire ? If its God, then what does he want from > > human > > > > being ? > > > > > > > > > > Even if we believe that Karma theory ( supported by Gita) is > > true > > > > then it means that we are slave of a rule. Who made us slave of > > the > > > > rule ? > > > > > > > > > > There are many more question in my mind to ask you. Well, i am > > > > asking because of my planetary positions (19:13, Ghaziabad - UP, > > 25- > > > > August-1981). > > > > > > > > > > I think a lot on all these questions and try to justify or > > > > counter-argue with myself on these question. But never got a > > > > satisfied reason. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > > > Jagdish > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh sreesog@ wrote: Dear Srinivas ji, > > > > > ==> > > > > > > karma burning .... > > > > > <== > > > > > I wonder - is it some thing like Firewood?! :=) > > > > > Love and hugs, > > > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > > > > > , " sreeram > > srinivas " > > > > > <sreeram64@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Chawan saab, > > > > > > > > > > > > I respect your views and hence the pleasure of disagreeing > > with > > > > > > you....!!....Going by your logics, one can put lot of > > excuses to > > > > one's > > > > > > Boss in office....!!! and stand a sure chance of losing the > > > > job....!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > Well not everything is destiny.....for ordinary mortals - > > yes who > > > > are > > > > > > resigned to fate, for those with a thinking mind....it is not > > > > so.....!! > > > > > > > > > > > > Everything is cause and reaction......and upholding of > > > > dharma....!! In > > > > > > mahabharat...Lord Krishna instructs Arjun... - you duty is to > > > > shoot > > > > > > arrows......to ensure that the arrows hit the enemy is my > > > > job..... to > > > > > > upload dharma in daily life is one's prerogative......the > > > > examples you > > > > > > have are in principle are bad {using a milder word !!}....to > > stop > > > > the > > > > > > karmic cycle....by perpetuating the reaction is where the > > real > > > > karma or > > > > > > dharma lies.... > > > > > > > > > > > > Kindly read the hindu scriptures in english language shall > > > > provide the > > > > > > weblinks on it tomorrow...the karmic law cannot be overruled > > even > > > > by > > > > > > great saints....it has to be satisfied.....prayers & guru's > > help > > > > in > > > > > > overcoming it...or advanced yogis, transfer the karma on to > > > > themselves > > > > > > through yogic methods to protect their disciples......does > > Jesus > > > > really > > > > > > deserve the type of crucification death...??? for his simple > > > > > > preachings....surely NOT > > > > > > > > > > > > Normally the karma burning is very slow for ordinary > > people...but > > > > people > > > > > > who are already on dharma....it burns must faster...hurdles > > are > > > > > > more....you are repaying your debts of next life now > > > > itself.....!! see > > > > > > my karma accounting theories in the archives..... > > > > > > > > > > > > ....got to for dinner...getting late...will continue > > > > tomorrow.....on > > > > > > this....consider this as part-1 > > > > > > > > > > > > with regards > > > > > > > > > > > > sreeram srinivas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Prathamesn > > Chawan > > > > > > <upaoakcrest@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I feel more sorry if someone proves that astrology is 100% > > true. I > > > > > > havent got the answer of this question so far. If astrology > > is > > > > 100% true > > > > > > then an able astrologer can predict everything about your > > future. > > > > If > > > > > > that happens then there is nothing good or bad or evil. > > > > > > > > > > > > A rapist is as good as a the victim. Rapist was supposed to > > rape > > > > > > according to planetary conditions in his chart and victim was > > > > supposed > > > > > > to be victim according to her chart. It means Harshad Mehta, > > > > > > Daud-Abrahim, Chotta Shakil and all the people from > > underworld or > > > > > > indulge in illegal activities are not bad. They are acting as > > > > they are > > > > > > destined. > > > > > > > > > > > > A husband who beats his wife daily is not a bad person. Wife > > was > > > > > > destined to suffer and husband was supposed to be the > > aggresive > > > > and > > > > > > voilent ? > > > > > > > > > > > > Can anyone tell me how much is in human hand and how much is > > in > > > > the hand > > > > > > of destiny ? After reading many books of K. N. Rao, i feel > > that > > > > its all > > > > > > destiny. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > > > > > Jagdish > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make your > > > > homepage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bollywood, fun, friendship, sports and more. You name it, we have it. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 2007 Report Share Posted December 7, 2007 Dear Chandra Hariji,Namaskar.Parabrahmam is only one that exists. Rest all is Maya or Illusion.This is Advaitam.Regards,D.Ramakrishnan.chandra_hari18 <chandra_hari18 wrote: Parabrahmam + Maya = 1+1 = 2 or 1? Is it Advaitam or Dvaitam? chandra hari , r_vani ramakrishnan <r_vani61 wrote: > > Dear Jyothi, > As per Advaitha Vedanta, there is only one that exists, that is Parabrahman. > And others that we see or hear is Maya, i.e., Illusion. Even though they appear to exist, but they are not. They are impermanent and perish in some time. Thats why it is said, > Brahma satyam - Jaganmithya. > Regards, > D.Ramakrishnan. > > jyothi_b_lakshmi jyothi_b_lakshmi wrote: Dear Sir, > > If Time is an illusion, then shouldnt astrolgy which is based on > time be also an illusion? ) > > Time = breath. > Then, by the rule of induction, > All organisms that breath are illusions, so we all human beings and > animals are illusions. > Plants also breath, so they are also illusions. > Now what is not an illusion??? > > May be only the inanimate things, rocks, stones are not illusions??. > Oh No, how do we see the rocks and other inanimate things in this > world? Because we breathe, thereby we exist and thereby we see. So > as long as we are illusions all that our senses create are also > illusions and the inanimate things are the creation of our senses > (imagine a world of all blind, for them there wont be any rocks or > flowers)are also illusions. > > Final output: Everything is an illusion!! > > May be thats why Lord Krishna said "Everything is a Maya" )) > > Regards, > Jyothi > > , "chandra_hari18" > chandra_hari18@ wrote: > > > > > > Dear Sreenadh, > > > > I think your observation is not correct. Karma theory is > fundamental to > > astrology. What is time? Time is an illusion. How time operates? > Time is > > constituted of the 5 tattvas and bhutas in successive micro and > macro > > levels (terminology is difficult to mind) and the Bhuta -ghatana > imparts > > special qualities for moments which reflect destiny. Karma is the > factor > > that decides Bhuta-ghatana and Karma catches up with the individual > > through breath which has a specific bhuta or tattva pattern. > > > > Because of the above reason, first breath or cry is the true birth > time. > > First cry is the siren of Karma- Prarabdham for which horoscope is > made. > > > > chandra hari > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Sreenadh" > > <sreesog@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Jagdish ji and Srinivas ji, > > > Being an astrology group, I have a simple question - Is there ANY > > > Rishi hora slokas (astrological quotes) that supports Karma > theory > > > before the laghu jataka (attributed to Mihira) which > > > reads 'Edupachitam anya janmani ....." etc. The point I want to > > > emphasize is there is NO Rishi Hora sloka that support Karma > theory > > > available! > > > As per astrology - time is the cause behind; As per Vedanta it is > > > Karma theory; As per Ayurveda it is the innate nature; as per > Sankhya > > > it is Purusha - and so on. The various knowledge branches had > there > > > own philosophical approach (and astrology has its own unique > > > philosophical approach for sure) - and the mixing of adopted > theories > > > such as Karma theory into astrology is NOT in tune with the > vision of > > > the sages who wrote Horas on astrology - this is my opinion. > > > Note: If we want to follow Rishi horas we may have to drop Karma > > > theory. > > > Love and regards, > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > , Prathamesn > Chawan > > > upaoakcrest@ wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Srinivas Ji > > > > > > > > Greetings > > > > > > > > > > > > Lord Krishna had fatal attacks on his life. Krishna was a lord > > > itself. What karma he did in his last life (which is not there) > so > > > that he got such a dangerous childhood ? > > > > > > > > What karma Jesus did ? He suffered a lot. > > > > > > > > Well, who made this karma or came up with this concept of > Karma ? > > > What was his desire ? If its God, then what does he want from > human > > > being ? > > > > > > > > Even if we believe that Karma theory ( supported by Gita) is > true > > > then it means that we are slave of a rule. Who made us slave of > the > > > rule ? > > > > > > > > There are many more question in my mind to ask you. Well, i am > > > asking because of my planetary positions (19:13, Ghaziabad - UP, > 25- > > > August-1981). > > > > > > > > I think a lot on all these questions and try to justify or > > > counter-argue with myself on these question. But never got a > > > satisfied reason. > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > Jagdish > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh sreesog@ wrote: Dear Srinivas ji, > > > > ==> > > > > > karma burning .... > > > > <== > > > > I wonder - is it some thing like Firewood?! :=) > > > > Love and hugs, > > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > > > , "sreeram > srinivas" > > > > <sreeram64@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Chawan saab, > > > > > > > > > > I respect your views and hence the pleasure of disagreeing > with > > > > > you....!!....Going by your logics, one can put lot of > excuses to > > > one's > > > > > Boss in office....!!! and stand a sure chance of losing the > > > job....!!! > > > > > > > > > > Well not everything is destiny.....for ordinary mortals - > yes who > > > are > > > > > resigned to fate, for those with a thinking mind....it is not > > > so.....!! > > > > > > > > > > Everything is cause and reaction......and upholding of > > > dharma....!! In > > > > > mahabharat...Lord Krishna instructs Arjun... - you duty is to > > > shoot > > > > > arrows......to ensure that the arrows hit the enemy is my > > > job..... to > > > > > upload dharma in daily life is one's prerogative......the > > > examples you > > > > > have are in principle are bad {using a milder word !!}....to > stop > > > the > > > > > karmic cycle....by perpetuating the reaction is where the > real > > > karma or > > > > > dharma lies.... > > > > > > > > > > Kindly read the hindu scriptures in english language shall > > > provide the > > > > > weblinks on it tomorrow...the karmic law cannot be overruled > even > > > by > > > > > great saints....it has to be satisfied.....prayers & guru's > help > > > in > > > > > overcoming it...or advanced yogis, transfer the karma on to > > > themselves > > > > > through yogic methods to protect their disciples......does > Jesus > > > really > > > > > deserve the type of crucification death...??? for his simple > > > > > preachings....surely NOT > > > > > > > > > > Normally the karma burning is very slow for ordinary > people...but > > > people > > > > > who are already on dharma....it burns must faster...hurdles > are > > > > > more....you are repaying your debts of next life now > > > itself.....!! see > > > > > my karma accounting theories in the archives..... > > > > > > > > > > ....got to for dinner...getting late...will continue > > > tomorrow.....on > > > > > this....consider this as part-1 > > > > > > > > > > with regards > > > > > > > > > > sreeram srinivas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Prathamesn > Chawan > > > > > <upaoakcrest@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I feel more sorry if someone proves that astrology is 100% > true. I > > > > > havent got the answer of this question so far. If astrology > is > > > 100% true > > > > > then an able astrologer can predict everything about your > future. > > > If > > > > > that happens then there is nothing good or bad or evil. > > > > > > > > > > A rapist is as good as a the victim. Rapist was supposed to > rape > > > > > according to planetary conditions in his chart and victim was > > > supposed > > > > > to be victim according to her chart. It means Harshad Mehta, > > > > > Daud-Abrahim, Chotta Shakil and all the people from > underworld or > > > > > indulge in illegal activities are not bad. They are acting as > > > they are > > > > > destined. > > > > > > > > > > A husband who beats his wife daily is not a bad person. Wife > was > > > > > destined to suffer and husband was supposed to be the > aggresive > > > and > > > > > voilent ? > > > > > > > > > > Can anyone tell me how much is in human hand and how much is > in > > > the hand > > > > > of destiny ? After reading many books of K. N. Rao, i feel > that > > > its all > > > > > destiny. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > > > Jagdish > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make your > > > homepage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bollywood, fun, friendship, sports and more. You name it, we have it. > Forgot the famous last words? Access your message archive online. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 2007 Report Share Posted December 7, 2007 Dear Ramakrishnan ji, In that case is your statement is wrong - because it is only Parabrahman there is no need for a term like Maya at all. There is nothing 'rest' (remaining) but ONLY parabrahman. That was why Hari was pointing to the fact that anything which refers to Brahnam+Maya (like the Sankara's argument) is truly Dualism and NOT Advitam. Because in Advaitam, the maya does not exist (no, not even as illation) but only Parabraman and even illusion is Parabrahman. There can be a cute thought - why the word Parabrahman? Does it mean ParaH Brahman (Brahnam the Ultimate) or Para Brahman (Brahman that is different from US) ? If it means the second then the two Brahnams are Brahman within (i.e. Jeeva-Atma) and Brahman without (i.e. Parma- Atma) and the use of such a word itself is part of Sankhya the dualistic philosophy than part of Advaita. Or if it is the first case (i.e. ParaH Brahman means Brahman the ultimate), then why should one use the prifix 'ParaH' at all? Because Brahman is ultimate, and there is no need to to say 'ParaH Bhrahman', that would be just a repetition like 'Ultimate Ultimate Reality' - sounds absurd. Therefore it essentially seems that the people who started attaching the prefix 'Para' with Brahman must have had something other than 'Para' (others) in their mind - some thing they considered own and within. Anyway, I am not into these args, but just a passing thought. Love, Sreenadh , r_vani ramakrishnan <r_vani61 wrote: > > Dear Chandra Hariji, > Namaskar. > Parabrahmam is only one that exists. Rest all is Maya or Illusion. > This is Advaitam. > Regards, > D.Ramakrishnan. > > chandra_hari18 <chandra_hari18 wrote: > Parabrahmam + Maya = 1+1 = 2 or 1? Is it Advaitam or Dvaitam? > > chandra hari > > , r_vani ramakrishnan > <r_vani61@> wrote: > > Dear Jyothi, > As per Advaitha Vedanta, there is only one that exists, that is > Parabrahman. > And others that we see or hear is Maya, i.e., Illusion. Even though > they appear to exist, but they are not. They are impermanent and perish in some time. Thats why it is said, > Brahma satyam - Jaganmithya. > Regards, > D.Ramakrishnan. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 2007 Report Share Posted December 7, 2007 Dear Jyothi,Parabrahmam is Supreme. That is one and only one. All other things sprang from that including Maya. Maya is subservient to that Supreme. From That all the other things have come out, but not That from other things.Regards,D.Ramakrishnan.jyothi_b_lakshmi <jyothi_b_lakshmi wrote: My version: Parabrahmam + Maya = 1/2 + 1/2 = 1 (Adwaitam) Jyothi , "chandra_hari18" <chandra_hari18 wrote: > > > Parabrahmam + Maya = 1+1 = 2 or 1? Is it Advaitam or Dvaitam? > > chandra hari > > > , r_vani ramakrishnan > <r_vani61@> wrote: > > > > Dear Jyothi, > > As per Advaitha Vedanta, there is only one that exists, that is > Parabrahman. > > And others that we see or hear is Maya, i.e., Illusion. Even though > they appear to exist, but they are not. They are impermanent and perish > in some time. Thats why it is said, > > Brahma satyam - Jaganmithya. > > Regards, > > D.Ramakrishnan. > > > > jyothi_b_lakshmi jyothi_b_lakshmi@ wrote: Dear Sir, > > > > If Time is an illusion, then shouldnt astrolgy which is based on > > time be also an illusion? ) > > > > Time = breath. > > Then, by the rule of induction, > > All organisms that breath are illusions, so we all human beings and > > animals are illusions. > > Plants also breath, so they are also illusions. > > Now what is not an illusion??? > > > > May be only the inanimate things, rocks, stones are not illusions??. > > Oh No, how do we see the rocks and other inanimate things in this > > world? Because we breathe, thereby we exist and thereby we see. So > > as long as we are illusions all that our senses create are also > > illusions and the inanimate things are the creation of our senses > > (imagine a world of all blind, for them there wont be any rocks or > > flowers)are also illusions. > > > > Final output: Everything is an illusion!! > > > > May be thats why Lord Krishna said "Everything is a Maya" )) > > > > Regards, > > Jyothi > > > > , "chandra_hari18" > > chandra_hari18@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > Dear Sreenadh, > > > > > > I think your observation is not correct. Karma theory is > > fundamental to > > > astrology. What is time? Time is an illusion. How time operates? > > Time is > > > constituted of the 5 tattvas and bhutas in successive micro and > > macro > > > levels (terminology is difficult to mind) and the Bhuta - ghatana > > imparts > > > special qualities for moments which reflect destiny. Karma is the > > factor > > > that decides Bhuta-ghatana and Karma catches up with the individual > > > through breath which has a specific bhuta or tattva pattern. > > > > > > Because of the above reason, first breath or cry is the true birth > > time. > > > First cry is the siren of Karma- Prarabdham for which horoscope is > > made. > > > > > > chandra hari > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , "Sreenadh" > > > <sreesog@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Jagdish ji and Srinivas ji, > > > > Being an astrology group, I have a simple question - Is there ANY > > > > Rishi hora slokas (astrological quotes) that supports Karma > > theory > > > > before the laghu jataka (attributed to Mihira) which > > > > reads 'Edupachitam anya janmani ....." etc. The point I want to > > > > emphasize is there is NO Rishi Hora sloka that support Karma > > theory > > > > available! > > > > As per astrology - time is the cause behind; As per Vedanta it is > > > > Karma theory; As per Ayurveda it is the innate nature; as per > > Sankhya > > > > it is Purusha - and so on. The various knowledge branches had > > there > > > > own philosophical approach (and astrology has its own unique > > > > philosophical approach for sure) - and the mixing of adopted > > theories > > > > such as Karma theory into astrology is NOT in tune with the > > vision of > > > > the sages who wrote Horas on astrology - this is my opinion. > > > > Note: If we want to follow Rishi horas we may have to drop Karma > > > > theory. > > > > Love and regards, > > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > > > , Prathamesn > > Chawan > > > > upaoakcrest@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Srinivas Ji > > > > > > > > > > Greetings > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lord Krishna had fatal attacks on his life. Krishna was a lord > > > > itself. What karma he did in his last life (which is not there) > > so > > > > that he got such a dangerous childhood ? > > > > > > > > > > What karma Jesus did ? He suffered a lot. > > > > > > > > > > Well, who made this karma or came up with this concept of > > Karma ? > > > > What was his desire ? If its God, then what does he want from > > human > > > > being ? > > > > > > > > > > Even if we believe that Karma theory ( supported by Gita) is > > true > > > > then it means that we are slave of a rule. Who made us slave of > > the > > > > rule ? > > > > > > > > > > There are many more question in my mind to ask you. Well, i am > > > > asking because of my planetary positions (19:13, Ghaziabad - UP, > > 25- > > > > August-1981). > > > > > > > > > > I think a lot on all these questions and try to justify or > > > > counter-argue with myself on these question. But never got a > > > > satisfied reason. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > > > Jagdish > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sreenadh sreesog@ wrote: Dear Srinivas ji, > > > > > ==> > > > > > > karma burning .... > > > > > <== > > > > > I wonder - is it some thing like Firewood?! :=) > > > > > Love and hugs, > > > > > Sreenadh > > > > > > > > > > , "sreeram > > srinivas" > > > > > <sreeram64@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Chawan saab, > > > > > > > > > > > > I respect your views and hence the pleasure of disagreeing > > with > > > > > > you....!!....Going by your logics, one can put lot of > > excuses to > > > > one's > > > > > > Boss in office....!!! and stand a sure chance of losing the > > > > job....!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > Well not everything is destiny.....for ordinary mortals - > > yes who > > > > are > > > > > > resigned to fate, for those with a thinking mind....it is not > > > > so.....!! > > > > > > > > > > > > Everything is cause and reaction......and upholding of > > > > dharma....!! In > > > > > > mahabharat...Lord Krishna instructs Arjun... - you duty is to > > > > shoot > > > > > > arrows......to ensure that the arrows hit the enemy is my > > > > job..... to > > > > > > upload dharma in daily life is one's prerogative......the > > > > examples you > > > > > > have are in principle are bad {using a milder word !!}....to > > stop > > > > the > > > > > > karmic cycle....by perpetuating the reaction is where the > > real > > > > karma or > > > > > > dharma lies.... > > > > > > > > > > > > Kindly read the hindu scriptures in english language shall > > > > provide the > > > > > > weblinks on it tomorrow...the karmic law cannot be overruled > > even > > > > by > > > > > > great saints....it has to be satisfied.....prayers & guru's > > help > > > > in > > > > > > overcoming it...or advanced yogis, transfer the karma on to > > > > themselves > > > > > > through yogic methods to protect their disciples......does > > Jesus > > > > really > > > > > > deserve the type of crucification death...??? for his simple > > > > > > preachings....surely NOT > > > > > > > > > > > > Normally the karma burning is very slow for ordinary > > people...but > > > > people > > > > > > who are already on dharma....it burns must faster...hurdles > > are > > > > > > more....you are repaying your debts of next life now > > > > itself.....!! see > > > > > > my karma accounting theories in the archives..... > > > > > > > > > > > > ....got to for dinner...getting late...will continue > > > > tomorrow.....on > > > > > > this....consider this as part-1 > > > > > > > > > > > > with regards > > > > > > > > > > > > sreeram srinivas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Prathamesn > > Chawan > > > > > > <upaoakcrest@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I feel more sorry if someone proves that astrology is 100% > > true. I > > > > > > havent got the answer of this question so far. If astrology > > is > > > > 100% true > > > > > > then an able astrologer can predict everything about your > > future. > > > > If > > > > > > that happens then there is nothing good or bad or evil. > > > > > > > > > > > > A rapist is as good as a the victim. Rapist was supposed to > > rape > > > > > > according to planetary conditions in his chart and victim was > > > > supposed > > > > > > to be victim according to her chart. It means Harshad Mehta, > > > > > > Daud-Abrahim, Chotta Shakil and all the people from > > underworld or > > > > > > indulge in illegal activities are not bad. They are acting as > > > > they are > > > > > > destined. > > > > > > > > > > > > A husband who beats his wife daily is not a bad person. Wife > > was > > > > > > destined to suffer and husband was supposed to be the > > aggresive > > > > and > > > > > > voilent ? > > > > > > > > > > > > Can anyone tell me how much is in human hand and how much is > > in > > > > the hand > > > > > > of destiny ? After reading many books of K. N. Rao, i feel > > that > > > > its all > > > > > > destiny. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > > > > > Jagdish > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make your > > > > homepage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bollywood, fun, friendship, sports and more. You name it, we have it. > > > Chat on a cool, new interface. No download required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 2007 Report Share Posted December 7, 2007 Dear Ramkrishanji, "You and the rest of your family" - if I have to say so at least 2 members must be there in your home. I hope you won't disagree. In the same way, when you say P_Brahmam and the rest at least two entities must be there. So that will be called Dvaitam. Further, Isavasyam says: Isavasyamidam sarvam = what does it mean? Is it advaitam? Aurobindo said: Isa had a heartiest laugh when Sankaracharya wrote advatic commentary on this Upanishad. BU's Santi vakyam says: Poornamadah poornamidam: What are those adah and idam? Are they not two? chandra hari , r_vani ramakrishnan <r_vani61 wrote:>> Dear Chandra Hariji,> Namaskar.> Parabrahmam is only one that exists. Rest all is Maya or Illusion.> This is Advaitam.> Regards,> D.Ramakrishnan.> > chandra_hari18 chandra_hari18 wrote: > Parabrahmam + Maya = 1+1 = 2 or 1? Is it Advaitam or Dvaitam?> > chandra hari> > , r_vani ramakrishnan> r_vani61@ wrote:> > Dear Jyothi,> As per Advaitha Vedanta, there is only one that exists, that is> Parabrahman.> And others that we see or hear is Maya, i.e., Illusion. Even though> they appear to exist, but they are not. They are impermanent and perish in some time. Thats why it is said,> Brahma satyam - Jaganmithya.> Regards,> D.Ramakrishnan.> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 2007 Report Share Posted December 7, 2007 Mr. P. Brahmam = Head Master Ms. Maya = Teacher School = SANKARAADVAITAM SUBJECT = ATMA-MAYA AVTARS NATIONAL SONG OF ATMA-MAYA SCHOOL = BHAGAVAD GITA , r_vani ramakrishnan <r_vani61 wrote:>> Dear Jyothi,> Parabrahmam is Supreme. That is one and only one. All other things sprang from that including Maya. Maya is subservient to that Supreme. From That all the other things have come out, but not That from other things.> Regards,> D.Ramakrishnan.> > jyothi_b_lakshmi jyothi_b_lakshmi wrote: My version:> > Parabrahmam + Maya = 1/2 + 1/2 = 1 (Adwaitam) > > Jyothi> > , "chandra_hari18" > chandra_hari18@ wrote:> >> > > > Parabrahmam + Maya = 1+1 = 2 or 1? Is it Advaitam or Dvaitam?> > > > chandra hari> > > > > > , r_vani > ramakrishnan> > <r_vani61@> wrote:> > >> > > Dear Jyothi,> > > As per Advaitha Vedanta, there is only one that exists, that is> > Parabrahman.> > > And others that we see or hear is Maya, i.e., Illusion. Even > though> > they appear to exist, but they are not. They are impermanent and > perish> > in some time. Thats why it is said,> > > Brahma satyam - Jaganmithya.> > > Regards,> > > D.Ramakrishnan.> > >> > > jyothi_b_lakshmi jyothi_b_lakshmi@ wrote: Dear Sir,> > >> > > If Time is an illusion, then shouldnt astrolgy which is based on> > > time be also an illusion? )> > >> > > Time = breath.> > > Then, by the rule of induction,> > > All organisms that breath are illusions, so we all human beings > and> > > animals are illusions.> > > Plants also breath, so they are also illusions.> > > Now what is not an illusion???> > >> > > May be only the inanimate things, rocks, stones are not > illusions??.> > > Oh No, how do we see the rocks and other inanimate things in this> > > world? Because we breathe, thereby we exist and thereby we see. > So> > > as long as we are illusions all that our senses create are also> > > illusions and the inanimate things are the creation of our senses> > > (imagine a world of all blind, for them there wont be any rocks > or> > > flowers)are also illusions.> > >> > > Final output: Everything is an illusion!!> > >> > > May be thats why Lord Krishna said "Everything is a Maya" ))> > >> > > Regards,> > > Jyothi> > >> > > , "chandra_hari18"> > > chandra_hari18@ wrote:> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear Sreenadh,> > > >> > > > I think your observation is not correct. Karma theory is> > > fundamental to> > > > astrology. What is time? Time is an illusion. How time > operates?> > > Time is> > > > constituted of the 5 tattvas and bhutas in successive micro and> > > macro> > > > levels (terminology is difficult to mind) and the Bhuta -> ghatana> > > imparts> > > > special qualities for moments which reflect destiny. Karma is > the> > > factor> > > > that decides Bhuta-ghatana and Karma catches up with the > individual> > > > through breath which has a specific bhuta or tattva pattern.> > > >> > > > Because of the above reason, first breath or cry is the true > birth> > > time.> > > > First cry is the siren of Karma- Prarabdham for which > horoscope is> > > made.> > > >> > > > chandra hari> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > , "Sreenadh"> > > > <sreesog@> wrote:> > > > >> > > > > Dear Jagdish ji and Srinivas ji,> > > > > Being an astrology group, I have a simple question - Is > there ANY> > > > > Rishi hora slokas (astrological quotes) that supports Karma> > > theory> > > > > before the laghu jataka (attributed to Mihira) which> > > > > reads 'Edupachitam anya janmani ....." etc. The point I want > to> > > > > emphasize is there is NO Rishi Hora sloka that support Karma> > > theory> > > > > available!> > > > > As per astrology - time is the cause behind; As per Vedanta > it is> > > > > Karma theory; As per Ayurveda it is the innate nature; as per> > > Sankhya> > > > > it is Purusha - and so on. The various knowledge branches had> > > there> > > > > own philosophical approach (and astrology has its own unique> > > > > philosophical approach for sure) - and the mixing of adopted> > > theories> > > > > such as Karma theory into astrology is NOT in tune with the> > > vision of> > > > > the sages who wrote Horas on astrology - this is my opinion.> > > > > Note: If we want to follow Rishi horas we may have to drop > Karma> > > > > theory. > > > > > Love and regards,> > > > > Sreenadh> > > > >> > > > > , Prathamesn> > > Chawan> > > > > upaoakcrest@ wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > Dear Srinivas Ji> > > > > >> > > > > > Greetings> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Lord Krishna had fatal attacks on his life. Krishna was a > lord> > > > > itself. What karma he did in his last life (which is not > there)> > > so> > > > > that he got such a dangerous childhood ?> > > > > >> > > > > > What karma Jesus did ? He suffered a lot.> > > > > >> > > > > > Well, who made this karma or came up with this concept of> > > Karma ?> > > > > What was his desire ? If its God, then what does he want from> > > human> > > > > being ?> > > > > >> > > > > > Even if we believe that Karma theory ( supported by Gita) > is> > > true> > > > > then it means that we are slave of a rule. Who made us slave > of> > > the> > > > > rule ?> > > > > >> > > > > > There are many more question in my mind to ask you. Well, > i am> > > > > asking because of my planetary positions (19:13, Ghaziabad - > UP,> > > 25-> > > > > August-1981).> > > > > >> > > > > > I think a lot on all these questions and try to justify or> > > > > counter-argue with myself on these question. But never got a> > > > > satisfied reason.> > > > > >> > > > > > Thanks> > > > > >> > > > > > Jagdish> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > Sreenadh sreesog@ wrote: Dear Srinivas ji,> > > > > > ==>> > > > > > > karma burning ....> > > > > > <==> > > > > > I wonder - is it some thing like Firewood?! :=)> > > > > > Love and hugs,> > > > > > Sreenadh> > > > > >> > > > > > , "sreeram> > > srinivas"> > > > > > <sreeram64@> wrote:> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Dear Chawan saab,> > > > > > >> > > > > > > I respect your views and hence the pleasure of > disagreeing> > > with> > > > > > > you....!!....Going by your logics, one can put lot of> > > excuses to> > > > > one's> > > > > > > Boss in office....!!! and stand a sure chance of losing > the> > > > > job....!!!> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Well not everything is destiny.....for ordinary mortals -> > > yes who> > > > > are> > > > > > > resigned to fate, for those with a thinking mind....it > is not> > > > > so.....!!> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Everything is cause and reaction......and upholding of> > > > > dharma....!! In> > > > > > > mahabharat...Lord Krishna instructs Arjun... - you duty > is to> > > > > shoot> > > > > > > arrows......to ensure that the arrows hit the enemy is my> > > > > job..... to> > > > > > > upload dharma in daily life is one's prerogative......the> > > > > examples you> > > > > > > have are in principle are bad {using a milder > word !!}....to> > > stop> > > > > the> > > > > > > karmic cycle....by perpetuating the reaction is where the> > > real> > > > > karma or> > > > > > > dharma lies....> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Kindly read the hindu scriptures in english language > shall> > > > > provide the> > > > > > > weblinks on it tomorrow...the karmic law cannot be > overruled> > > even> > > > > by> > > > > > > great saints....it has to be satisfied.....prayers & > guru's> > > help> > > > > in> > > > > > > overcoming it...or advanced yogis, transfer the karma on > to> > > > > themselves> > > > > > > through yogic methods to protect their > disciples......does> > > Jesus> > > > > really> > > > > > > deserve the type of crucification death...??? for his > simple> > > > > > > preachings....surely NOT> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Normally the karma burning is very slow for ordinary> > > people...but> > > > > people> > > > > > > who are already on dharma....it burns must > faster...hurdles> > > are> > > > > > > more....you are repaying your debts of next life now> > > > > itself.....!! see> > > > > > > my karma accounting theories in the archives.....> > > > > > >> > > > > > > ....got to for dinner...getting late...will continue> > > > > tomorrow.....on> > > > > > > this....consider this as part-1> > > > > > >> > > > > > > with regards> > > > > > >> > > > > > > sreeram srinivas> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > , > Prathamesn> > > Chawan> > > > > > > <upaoakcrest@> wrote:> > > > > > >> > > > > > > I feel more sorry if someone proves that astrology is > 100%> > > true. I> > > > > > > havent got the answer of this question so far. If > astrology> > > is> > > > > 100% true> > > > > > > then an able astrologer can predict everything about your> > > future.> > > > > If> > > > > > > that happens then there is nothing good or bad or evil.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > A rapist is as good as a the victim. Rapist was supposed > to> > > rape> > > > > > > according to planetary conditions in his chart and > victim was> > > > > supposed> > > > > > > to be victim according to her chart. It means Harshad > Mehta,> > > > > > > Daud-Abrahim, Chotta Shakil and all the people from> > > underworld or> > > > > > > indulge in illegal activities are not bad. They are > acting as> > > > > they are> > > > > > > destined.> > > > > > >> > > > > > > A husband who beats his wife daily is not a bad person. > Wife> > > was> > > > > > > destined to suffer and husband was supposed to be the> > > aggresive> > > > > and> > > > > > > voilent ?> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Can anyone tell me how much is in human hand and how > much is> > > in> > > > > the hand> > > > > > > of destiny ? After reading many books of K. N. Rao, i > feel> > > that> > > > > its all> > > > > > > destiny.> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Thanks> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Jagdish> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make > your> > > > > homepage.> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > Bollywood, fun, friendship, sports and more. You name it, we > have it.> > >> >> > > > > > > > Chat on a cool, new interface. 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Guest guest Posted December 7, 2007 Report Share Posted December 7, 2007 Dear Sreenadhji,Namaskar.Brahman or Parabrahman both are same. He is one and only one. The duality that we are seeing in this world is Maya that is illusion because it is not permanent. Change is taking place every moment and hence not permanent.Regards,D.Ramakrishnan.Sreenadh <sreesog wrote: Dear Ramakrishnan ji, In that case is your statement is wrong - because it is only Parabrahman there is no need for a term like Maya at all. There is nothing 'rest' (remaining) but ONLY parabrahman. That was why Hari was pointing to the fact that anything which refers to Brahnam+Maya (like the Sankara's argument) is truly Dualism and NOT Advitam. Because in Advaitam, the maya does not exist (no, not even as illation) but only Parabraman and even illusion is Parabrahman. There can be a cute thought - why the word Parabrahman? Does it mean ParaH Brahman (Brahnam the Ultimate) or Para Brahman (Brahman that is different from US) ? If it means the second then the two Brahnams are Brahman within (i.e. Jeeva-Atma) and Brahman without (i.e. Parma- Atma) and the use of such a word itself is part of Sankhya the dualistic philosophy than part of Advaita. Or if it is the first case (i.e. ParaH Brahman means Brahman the ultimate), then why should one use the prifix 'ParaH' at all? Because Brahman is ultimate, and there is no need to to say 'ParaH Bhrahman', that would be just a repetition like 'Ultimate Ultimate Reality' - sounds absurd. Therefore it essentially seems that the people who started attaching the prefix 'Para' with Brahman must have had something other than 'Para' (others) in their mind - some thing they considered own and within. Anyway, I am not into these args, but just a passing thought. Love, Sreenadh , r_vani ramakrishnan <r_vani61 wrote: > > Dear Chandra Hariji, > Namaskar. > Parabrahmam is only one that exists. Rest all is Maya or Illusion. > This is Advaitam. > Regards, > D.Ramakrishnan. > > chandra_hari18 <chandra_hari18 wrote: > Parabrahmam + Maya = 1+1 = 2 or 1? Is it Advaitam or Dvaitam? > > chandra hari > > , r_vani ramakrishnan > <r_vani61@> wrote: > > Dear Jyothi, > As per Advaitha Vedanta, there is only one that exists, that is > Parabrahman. > And others that we see or hear is Maya, i.e., Illusion. Even though > they appear to exist, but they are not. They are impermanent and perish in some time. Thats why it is said, > Brahma satyam - Jaganmithya. > Regards, > D.Ramakrishnan. > Now you can chat without downloading messenger. Click here to know how. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 2007 Report Share Posted December 7, 2007 Dear Chandra Hariji,Namaskar.I am blessed to have a contact with you.Yes, i don't disagree with you. We are two at present, myself and my wife, since children are at different places on their jobs.In this old age, I am trying to find Advaitam from Dwaitam since all the scriptures like Vedas, Upanishads etc guide us to Advaitam.Regards,D.Ramakrishnan.chandra_hari18 <chandra_hari18 wrote: Dear Ramkrishanji, "You and the rest of your family" - if I have to say so at least 2 members must be there in your home. I hope you won't disagree. In the same way, when you say P_Brahmam and the rest at least two entities must be there. So that will be called Dvaitam. Further, Isavasyam says: Isavasyamidam sarvam = what does it mean? Is it advaitam? Aurobindo said: Isa had a heartiest laugh when Sankaracharya wrote advatic commentary on this Upanishad. BU's Santi vakyam says: Poornamadah poornamidam: What are those adah and idam? Are they not two? chandra hari , r_vani ramakrishnan <r_vani61 wrote:>> Dear Chandra Hariji,> Namaskar.> Parabrahmam is only one that exists. Rest all is Maya or Illusion.> This is Advaitam.> Regards,> D.Ramakrishnan.> > chandra_hari18 chandra_hari18 wrote: > Parabrahmam + Maya = 1+1 = 2 or 1? Is it Advaitam or Dvaitam?> > chandra hari> > , r_vani ramakrishnan> r_vani61@ wrote:> > Dear Jyothi,> As per Advaitha Vedanta, there is only one that exists, that is> Parabrahman.> And others that we see or hear is Maya, i.e., Illusion. Even though> they appear to exist, but they are not. They are impermanent and perish in some time. Thats why it is said,> Brahma satyam - Jaganmithya.> Regards,> D.Ramakrishnan.> Chat on a cool, new interface. No download required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 2007 Report Share Posted December 7, 2007 Dear Sir, Lot of dialogue has takes place on Sankara's mayavadadvaitam in India. Sankara reduced Darsana to philosophy in India by borrowing the Saiva concept of Maya and linking it up with Buddhist notions. His effort was to defeat the Buddhas in Tarkkam. Sankara's brahmam cannot be experienced by anyone. It is like a cow of the books that cannot eat grass. Experience of the absolute, the only one, from which the creation arose is possible only in Saiva darsanam. That is why in India from Kailasam to Kanyakumari only Siva and his family is worshipped. Few isolated Vaishnava centres are copying of Saiva with the names changed from Siva to Krishna etc. arose in later times. Saiva darsana had its prevalence in India without any such gigantic Acharyas like Sankaracharya of comparatively recent times. And that shows its antiquity. The best way to realize the Unity of all existence is to chant 'namah sivaya' . chandra hari , r_vani ramakrishnan <r_vani61 wrote: > > Dear Chandra Hariji, > Namaskar. > I am blessed to have a contact with you. > Yes, i don't disagree with you. We are two at present, myself and my wife, since children are at different places on their jobs. > In this old age, I am trying to find Advaitam from Dwaitam since all the scriptures like Vedas, Upanishads etc guide us to Advaitam. > Regards, > D.Ramakrishnan. > > chandra_hari18 chandra_hari18 wrote: > Dear Ramkrishanji, > " You and the rest of your family " - if I have to say so at least 2 members must be there in your home. I hope you won't disagree. In the same way, when you say P_Brahmam and the rest at least two entities must be there. So that will be called Dvaitam. > Further, Isavasyam says: Isavasyamidam sarvam = what does it mean? Is it advaitam? Aurobindo said: Isa had a heartiest laugh when Sankaracharya wrote advatic commentary on this Upanishad. > BU's Santi vakyam says: Poornamadah poornamidam: What are those adah and idam? Are they not two? > chandra hari > > , r_vani ramakrishnan r_vani61@ wrote: > > > > Dear Chandra Hariji, > > Namaskar. > > Parabrahmam is only one that exists. Rest all is Maya or Illusion. > > This is Advaitam. > > Regards, > > D.Ramakrishnan. > > > > chandra_hari18 chandra_hari18@ wrote: > > Parabrahmam + Maya = 1+1 = 2 or 1? Is it Advaitam or Dvaitam? > > > > chandra hari > > > > , r_vani ramakrishnan > > r_vani61@ wrote: > > > > Dear Jyothi, > > As per Advaitha Vedanta, there is only one that exists, that is > > Parabrahman. > > And others that we see or hear is Maya, i.e., Illusion. Even though > > they appear to exist, but they are not. They are impermanent and perish in some time. Thats why it is said, > > Brahma satyam - Jaganmithya. > > Regards, > > D.Ramakrishnan. > > > Chat on a cool, new interface. No download required. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2007 Report Share Posted December 8, 2007 Dear Sri Chandra Hari, Namaskaram. The Advaita Siddhantha is not mere concept; but it is experiance. The people opposing Sankara says he is Maya Vadi and Prachchanna Boludha. Shri Sankara never contradicted the experiances of Bhagwan Buddha. But he proceeds further and proves the ultimate truth. Advaita is most scientific.Highest intellectuals. great scientists, thinkers have accepted it. Shri Sadasiva Brahmendra, Bhagawan Sri Ramana Maharishi are the examples to prove that the Advita Anubhava is possible and practicable. Advaita is a concept which is not against any other Siddanta. It is only an advaitin who can accept all the modes of worship, all the forms of worship and go beyond that and reach ultimate Para brhmam. Along with the concept of Maya Shri Sankara also explains the Vyavahara Sathya. That is why he established Shanmatha i.e. the Six paths of woshipping deities. Advaita is not mere negation; it is positive perfection and ultimate realisation. Shri Ramkrishna Paramahamsa was initiated in to Nirvikalpa Samadhi but yet he was a great Upasaka of Bhavatharini. Shri Madhusudana Saraswati was also a great Advaitin but a great Krishna Bhakta. All the forms and names of different Devatas, Deities are many but ultimately they are all of the same Para Brahman. Sri Paramahamsa even practised the Western Religions and revealed all these paths leads to ultimate, all-pervading,Supreme ParaBrahman. Bhakti, Gnana, Vairagya,Tapas, Upasana ,Atma Vichara are the paths to elevate ourselves. The ultimate truth i.e.Para Brahman- The veda says "Sa Shiva: Sa Hari: Sa Indra: Sa: Akshara: Paramaswarat"--He is Shiva, He is Hari, He is Indra, He is Akshara and He is the ultimate Power. Any amount of logic discussions, reading, may not help us to realise the truth but an ounce of practice is better than thousand discussions. Bhagwan says in Geetha that Mama Maya Duratyaya/-It is dificult to conquer my Maya. Maya is a word not invented by Sankara but it is the Illusory exhibition of the ParaBrahman which is nothing but this Virat. Once again I wish to insist that who ever persue a partcular path with stead fast belief and guidance of his Achrya or Guru let them continujethe same. That need not be a discussion lin this platform. I may be a practioner of Vedanta. Some may be of Devotional Path. Some may follow Yoga. Our Body, Mind and intellect are limited. All may not know everything. Before critisising the other path we must fully know abot it. That is not possible. But Going through a particular path and after reaching the ultimate we may realise that all are same and being the goal is the same-Veda says Ekam Sat Vipra Bhahuda Vadanthi. The same is told in the Geeta also "Yo Yo Yam Yam Tanum Bhakta: Sraddharchitum Ichchati ....."Who ever worships me in what ever form he chooses with devotion and with steadfast determination I Bless them in the same form I worship. Our subject isAstrology. The religion and Vedanta are very very deepl like ocean and a subject to be practiced and not to be discussed. Let is stick to ours. I hope that I am not mistaken. With regards, Hari Venkataraman. chandra_hari18 <chandra_hari18 wrote: Dear Sir,Lot of dialogue has takes place on Sankara's mayavadadvaitam in India.Sankara reduced Darsana to philosophy in India by borrowing the Saivaconcept of Maya and linking it up with Buddhist notions. His effort wasto defeat the Buddhas in Tarkkam. Sankara's brahmam cannot beexperienced by anyone. It is like a cow of the books that cannot eatgrass.Experience of the absolute, the only one, from which the creation aroseis possible only in Saiva darsanam. That is why in India from Kailasamto Kanyakumari only Siva and his family is worshipped. Few isolatedVaishnava centres are copying of Saiva with the names changed from Sivato Krishna etc. arose in later times.Saiva darsana had its prevalence in India without any such giganticAcharyas like Sankaracharya of comparatively recent times. And thatshows its antiquity.The best way to realize the Unity of all existence is to chant 'namahsivaya' .chandra hari , r_vani ramakrishnan<r_vani61 wrote:>> Dear Chandra Hariji,> Namaskar.> I am blessed to have a contact with you.> Yes, i don't disagree with you. We are two at present, myself and mywife, since children are at different places on their jobs.> In this old age, I am trying to find Advaitam from Dwaitam since allthe scriptures like Vedas, Upanishads etc guide us to Advaitam.> Regards,> D.Ramakrishnan.>> chandra_hari18 chandra_hari18 wrote:> Dear Ramkrishanji,> "You and the rest of your family" - if I have to say so at least 2members must be there in your home. I hope you won't disagree. In thesame way, when you say P_Brahmam and the rest at least two entities mustbe there. So that will be called Dvaitam.> Further, Isavasyam says: Isavasyamidam sarvam = what does it mean? Isit advaitam? Aurobindo said: Isa had a heartiest laugh whenSankaracharya wrote advatic commentary on this Upanishad.> BU's Santi vakyam says: Poornamadah poornamidam: What are those adahand idam? Are they not two?> chandra hari>> , r_vani ramakrishnanr_vani61@ wrote:> >> > Dear Chandra Hariji,> > Namaskar.> > Parabrahmam is only one that exists. Rest all is Maya or Illusion.> > This is Advaitam.> > Regards,> > D.Ramakrishnan.> >> > chandra_hari18 chandra_hari18@ wrote:> > Parabrahmam + Maya = 1+1 = 2 or 1? Is it Advaitam or Dvaitam?> >> > chandra hari> >> > , r_vani ramakrishnan> > r_vani61@ wrote:> >> > Dear Jyothi,> > As per Advaitha Vedanta, there is only one that exists, that is> > Parabrahman.> > And others that we see or hear is Maya, i.e., Illusion. Even though> > they appear to exist, but they are not. They are impermanent andperish in some time. Thats why it is said,> > Brahma satyam - Jaganmithya.> > Regards,> > D.Ramakrishnan.> >>>>>>>> > Chat on a cool, new interface. No download required. > Sent from - a smarter inbox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2007 Report Share Posted December 8, 2007 Dear Sir, I totally agree with you. Truth needs no " ism " for its existence. Be it Shavism or Vaishnavism or any other ism. Absolute reality is the same in all religions, be it Islam, Hinduism or Christianity. This is a fact everybody knows. One need not be a pandit in history or scriptures to know all these. If anybody says their " ism " is the only one way to realise GOD, then they havent understood their " ism " properly. Experiencing the absolute is not a monopoly of any specific sect. If it was, we wouldnt have had so many enlightened ones in this world that too from different religions and sects. St.Tresa of Avila, Budha, Sufi saints are all examples. Trying to confine the absolute power and the eligibility to experience it to one particular darshanam is absolute ignorance. It is really sad to know that people whom we assume to be spiritual and look towards for guidance themselves think in such a narrow minded way. Regards, Jyothi , Venkataraman Hari <venkataraman_hari wrote: > > Dear Sri Chandra Hari, > > Namaskaram. The Advaita Siddhantha is not mere concept; but it is experiance. The people opposing Sankara says he is Maya Vadi and Prachchanna Boludha. Shri Sankara never contradicted the experiances of Bhagwan Buddha. But he proceeds further and proves the ultimate truth. Advaita is most scientific.Highest intellectuals. great scientists, thinkers have accepted it. Shri Sadasiva Brahmendra, Bhagawan Sri Ramana Maharishi are the examples to prove that the Advita Anubhava is possible and practicable. Advaita is a concept which is not against any other Siddanta. It is only an advaitin who can accept all the modes of worship, all the forms of worship and go beyond that and reach ultimate Para brhmam. Along with the concept of Maya Shri Sankara also explains the Vyavahara Sathya. That is why he established Shanmatha i.e. the Six paths of woshipping deities. Advaita is not mere negation; it is positive perfection and ultimate realisation. Shri > Ramkrishna Paramahamsa was initiated in to Nirvikalpa Samadhi but yet he was a great Upasaka of Bhavatharini. Shri Madhusudana Saraswati was also a great Advaitin but a great Krishna Bhakta. All the forms and names of different Devatas, Deities are many but ultimately they are all of the same Para Brahman. Sri Paramahamsa even practised the Western Religions and revealed all these paths leads to ultimate, all-pervading,Supreme ParaBrahman. Bhakti, Gnana, Vairagya,Tapas, Upasana ,Atma Vichara are the paths to elevate ourselves. The ultimate truth i.e.Para Brahman- The veda says " Sa Shiva: Sa Hari: Sa Indra: Sa: Akshara: Paramaswarat " --He is Shiva, He is Hari, He is Indra, He is Akshara and He is the ultimate Power. Any amount of logic discussions, reading, may not help us to realise the truth but an ounce of practice is better than thousand discussions. Bhagwan says in Geetha that Mama Maya Duratyaya/-It is dificult to conquer my Maya. Maya is a word not invented by > Sankara but it is the Illusory exhibition of the ParaBrahman which is nothing but this Virat. Once again I wish to insist that who ever persue a partcular path with stead fast belief and guidance of his Achrya or Guru let them continujethe same. That need not be a discussion lin this platform. I may be a practioner of Vedanta. Some may be of Devotional Path. Some may follow Yoga. Our Body, Mind and intellect are limited. All may not know everything. Before critisising the other path we must fully know abot it. That is not possible. But Going through a particular path and after reaching the ultimate we may realise that all are same and being the goal is the same-Veda says Ekam Sat Vipra Bhahuda Vadanthi. The same is told in the Geeta also " Yo Yo Yam Yam Tanum Bhakta: Sraddharchitum Ichchati ..... " Who ever worships me in what ever form he chooses with devotion and with steadfast determination I Bless them in the same form I worship. > Our subject isAstrology. The religion and Vedanta are very very deepl like ocean and a subject to be practiced and not to be discussed. Let is stick to ours. I hope that I am not mistaken. > With regards, > Hari Venkataraman. > > chandra_hari18 <chandra_hari18 wrote: > > Dear Sir, > > Lot of dialogue has takes place on Sankara's mayavadadvaitam in India. > Sankara reduced Darsana to philosophy in India by borrowing the Saiva > concept of Maya and linking it up with Buddhist notions. His effort was > to defeat the Buddhas in Tarkkam. Sankara's brahmam cannot be > experienced by anyone. It is like a cow of the books that cannot eat > grass. > > Experience of the absolute, the only one, from which the creation arose > is possible only in Saiva darsanam. That is why in India from Kailasam > to Kanyakumari only Siva and his family is worshipped. Few isolated > Vaishnava centres are copying of Saiva with the names changed from Siva > to Krishna etc. arose in later times. > > Saiva darsana had its prevalence in India without any such gigantic > Acharyas like Sankaracharya of comparatively recent times. And that > shows its antiquity. > > The best way to realize the Unity of all existence is to chant 'namah > sivaya' . > > chandra hari > > , r_vani ramakrishnan > <r_vani61@> wrote: > > > > Dear Chandra Hariji, > > Namaskar. > > I am blessed to have a contact with you. > > Yes, i don't disagree with you. We are two at present, myself and my > wife, since children are at different places on their jobs. > > In this old age, I am trying to find Advaitam from Dwaitam since all > the scriptures like Vedas, Upanishads etc guide us to Advaitam. > > Regards, > > D.Ramakrishnan. > > > > chandra_hari18 chandra_hari18@ wrote: > > Dear Ramkrishanji, > > " You and the rest of your family " - if I have to say so at least 2 > members must be there in your home. I hope you won't disagree. In the > same way, when you say P_Brahmam and the rest at least two entities must > be there. So that will be called Dvaitam. > > Further, Isavasyam says: Isavasyamidam sarvam = what does it mean? Is > it advaitam? Aurobindo said: Isa had a heartiest laugh when > Sankaracharya wrote advatic commentary on this Upanishad. > > BU's Santi vakyam says: Poornamadah poornamidam: What are those adah > and idam? Are they not two? > > chandra hari > > > > , r_vani ramakrishnan > r_vani61@ wrote: > > > > > > Dear Chandra Hariji, > > > Namaskar. > > > Parabrahmam is only one that exists. Rest all is Maya or Illusion. > > > This is Advaitam. > > > Regards, > > > D.Ramakrishnan. > > > > > > chandra_hari18 chandra_hari18@ wrote: > > > Parabrahmam + Maya = 1+1 = 2 or 1? Is it Advaitam or Dvaitam? > > > > > > chandra hari > > > > > > , r_vani ramakrishnan > > > r_vani61@ wrote: > > > > > > Dear Jyothi, > > > As per Advaitha Vedanta, there is only one that exists, that is > > > Parabrahman. > > > And others that we see or hear is Maya, i.e., Illusion. Even though > > > they appear to exist, but they are not. They are impermanent and > perish in some time. Thats why it is said, > > > Brahma satyam - Jaganmithya. > > > Regards, > > > D.Ramakrishnan. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chat on a cool, new interface. No download required. > > > Sent from & #45; a smarter inbox. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2007 Report Share Posted December 8, 2007 Dear chandra hari , very good post . I am sharing a joke with u ,if u dont mind . I wonder whether both the ayanamsa wallas from this lahiri family . Chandra (La) Hari... oh! it is cute to note that both the anyansavalas are Hari... but this new chadra-dhari is after siva and against hari!! Hara haro hara!! the other one is lahiri and u are chandra lahiri --chandra la hari. in French. Meaning chandra the hari (chandra la hari = Chandra the hari) Tail piece:we kerala ppl will make all names in Malayalam. E.g.george bush --kuttikattil georgedavid copperfeild -chempu kandathil david i am trying ur ayanamsa and will let u know the results or in this grp . with wishes and blessings Vijayaraghavan guruvayur . , "chandra_hari18" <chandra_hari18 wrote:>> > Dear Sir,> > Lot of dialogue has takes place on Sankara's mayavadadvaitam in India.> Sankara reduced Darsana to philosophy in India by borrowing the Saiva> concept of Maya and linking it up with Buddhist notions. His effort was> to defeat the Buddhas in Tarkkam. Sankara's brahmam cannot be> experienced by anyone. It is like a cow of the books that cannot eat> grass.> > Experience of the absolute, the only one, from which the creation arose> is possible only in Saiva darsanam. That is why in India from Kailasam> to Kanyakumari only Siva and his family is worshipped. Few isolated> Vaishnava centres are copying of Saiva with the names changed from Siva> to Krishna etc. arose in later times.> > Saiva darsana had its prevalence in India without any such gigantic> Acharyas like Sankaracharya of comparatively recent times. And that> shows its antiquity.> > The best way to realize the Unity of all existence is to chant 'namah> sivaya' .> > chandra hari> > > > > , r_vani ramakrishnan> r_vani61@ wrote:> >> > Dear Chandra Hariji,> > Namaskar.> > I am blessed to have a contact with you.> > Yes, i don't disagree with you. We are two at present, myself and my> wife, since children are at different places on their jobs.> > In this old age, I am trying to find Advaitam from Dwaitam since all> the scriptures like Vedas, Upanishads etc guide us to Advaitam.> > Regards,> > D.Ramakrishnan.> >> > chandra_hari18 chandra_hari18@ wrote:> > Dear Ramkrishanji,> > "You and the rest of your family" - if I have to say so at least 2> members must be there in your home. I hope you won't disagree. In the> same way, when you say P_Brahmam and the rest at least two entities must> be there. So that will be called Dvaitam.> > Further, Isavasyam says: Isavasyamidam sarvam = what does it mean? Is> it advaitam? Aurobindo said: Isa had a heartiest laugh when> Sankaracharya wrote advatic commentary on this Upanishad.> > BU's Santi vakyam says: Poornamadah poornamidam: What are those adah> and idam? Are they not two?> > chandra hari> >> > , r_vani ramakrishnan> r_vani61@ wrote:> > >> > > Dear Chandra Hariji,> > > Namaskar.> > > Parabrahmam is only one that exists. Rest all is Maya or Illusion.> > > This is Advaitam.> > > Regards,> > > D.Ramakrishnan.> > >> > > chandra_hari18 chandra_hari18@ wrote:> > > Parabrahmam + Maya = 1+1 = 2 or 1? Is it Advaitam or Dvaitam?> > >> > > chandra hari> > >> > > , r_vani ramakrishnan> > > r_vani61@ wrote:> > >> > > Dear Jyothi,> > > As per Advaitha Vedanta, there is only one that exists, that is> > > Parabrahman.> > > And others that we see or hear is Maya, i.e., Illusion. Even though> > > they appear to exist, but they are not. They are impermanent and> perish in some time. Thats why it is said,> > > Brahma satyam - Jaganmithya.> > > Regards,> > > D.Ramakrishnan.> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > Chat on a cool, new interface. No download required. > >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2007 Report Share Posted December 8, 2007 Dear Sir, After completing the prasthana-traya bhashya only Sankaracharya roamed Kasi and then the legends say that the Chandala appeared and became his Guru. I worship that Chandala and his darsana is Sivaadvaitam. Maneesha-panchakam was wrote in praise of the Chandala. If Sankara's mayadvaitam had any spiritual contribution in India beyond lip service, how is it that castiesm got perpetuated in India and became the cornerstone of Brahmnism? What kind of Advaitic experience did the 4 Maths of Sankara represented during the 1000 years after Sankara? Even today what kind of Advaitic experience guide the 4 Maths of Sankaracharya where succession is decided by the caste of the Yoni? In contrast why the Saiva_Siddhas like 64 Nayanars despised casteism and how even pulaya, panan and paraya could become Siddhas in Tamizhakam and Kerala? Why did the Brahmins approach Sri Narayana Guru with protest when Guru installed Siva at Aruvippuram? Why the Brahmins doing 'Aham Brahmasmi' lip service have become Tantris to Lingam, Yoni and Sarpam? Which Veda or Upanishad / Sruti and Smrtis call for or authorize such practices by Aham-Brahmasmis? In which Veda can you find the word 'Puja' that is central to the Hindu spirituality? Why the agnihotram perished and Lingam and Yoni came to be the objects of worships by Brahmins? When Agnihotram perished how the Vedic Gods like Indra, Agni, Maruts etc can survive today? If the Gods also perished along with the Agnihotram what is the use of Vedic mantras today? How can it be good for anything? What is the use of Vedas and Upanishads without the Agnihotram? With the Jnanakantam alone (without Karmakandam) can Brahmam be attained? Why then the Vedic Brahmins have taken over Tantrik Karmakandam? What made Sankaracharya to reject the Purvamimamsa in favor of Uttaramimamsa? Beyond the twisted and stretched interpretations of the Upanishads at a time when logic or tarkkam was taken to be a test for truth, Sankara could manipulate people with Drshtantham. Drshtantam is not experience. Beyond Drshtanthams what did Sankara teach for a spiritual experience? In Vivekachoodamani Sankaracharya has even decried Yoga. In Gita he created with collaboration of his Brahminist champions wrote such nonsense - humbug compilation - as no one may understand the real Yoga under discussion. I will continue my discussion after seeing your answers to my queries. I am trying to learn from you - questions are not meant to be offensive. Just expressions of the curiosity of a chandalan. chandra hari , Venkataraman Hari <venkataraman_hari wrote:>> Dear Sri Chandra Hari, > > Namaskaram. The Advaita Siddhantha is not mere concept; but it is experiance. The people opposing Sankara says he is Maya Vadi and Prachchanna Boludha. Shri Sankara never contradicted the experiances of Bhagwan Buddha. But he proceeds further and proves the ultimate truth. Advaita is most scientific.Highest intellectuals. great scientists, thinkers have accepted it. Shri Sadasiva Brahmendra, Bhagawan Sri Ramana Maharishi are the examples to prove that the Advita Anubhava is possible and practicable. Advaita is a concept which is not against any other Siddanta. It is only an advaitin who can accept all the modes of worship, all the forms of worship and go beyond that and reach ultimate Para brhmam. Along with the concept of Maya Shri Sankara also explains the Vyavahara Sathya. That is why he established Shanmatha i.e. the Six paths of woshipping deities. Advaita is not mere negation; it is positive perfection and ultimate realisation. Shri> Ramkrishna Paramahamsa was initiated in to Nirvikalpa Samadhi but yet he was a great Upasaka of Bhavatharini. Shri Madhusudana Saraswati was also a great Advaitin but a great Krishna Bhakta. All the forms and names of different Devatas, Deities are many but ultimately they are all of the same Para Brahman. Sri Paramahamsa even practised the Western Religions and revealed all these paths leads to ultimate, all-pervading,Supreme ParaBrahman. Bhakti, Gnana, Vairagya,Tapas, Upasana ,Atma Vichara are the paths to elevate ourselves. The ultimate truth i.e.Para Brahman- The veda says "Sa Shiva: Sa Hari: Sa Indra: Sa: Akshara: Paramaswarat"--He is Shiva, He is Hari, He is Indra, He is Akshara and He is the ultimate Power. Any amount of logic discussions, reading, may not help us to realise the truth but an ounce of practice is better than thousand discussions. Bhagwan says in Geetha that Mama Maya Duratyaya/-It is dificult to conquer my Maya. Maya is a word not invented by> Sankara but it is the Illusory exhibition of the ParaBrahman which is nothing but this Virat. Once again I wish to insist that who ever persue a partcular path with stead fast belief and guidance of his Achrya or Guru let them continujethe same. That need not be a discussion lin this platform. I may be a practioner of Vedanta. Some may be of Devotional Path. Some may follow Yoga. Our Body, Mind and intellect are limited. All may not know everything. Before critisising the other path we must fully know abot it. That is not possible. But Going through a particular path and after reaching the ultimate we may realise that all are same and being the goal is the same-Veda says Ekam Sat Vipra Bhahuda Vadanthi. The same is told in the Geeta also "Yo Yo Yam Yam Tanum Bhakta: Sraddharchitum Ichchati ....."Who ever worships me in what ever form he chooses with devotion and with steadfast determination I Bless them in the same form I worship. > Our subject isAstrology. The religion and Vedanta are very very deepl like ocean and a subject to be practiced and not to be discussed. Let is stick to ours. I hope that I am not mistaken. > With regards, > Hari Venkataraman.> > > > > > > > > chandra_hari18 chandra_hari18 wrote:> > Dear Sir,> > Lot of dialogue has takes place on Sankara's mayavadadvaitam in India.> Sankara reduced Darsana to philosophy in India by borrowing the Saiva> concept of Maya and linking it up with Buddhist notions. His effort was> to defeat the Buddhas in Tarkkam. Sankara's brahmam cannot be> experienced by anyone. It is like a cow of the books that cannot eat> grass.> > Experience of the absolute, the only one, from which the creation arose> is possible only in Saiva darsanam. That is why in India from Kailasam> to Kanyakumari only Siva and his family is worshipped. Few isolated> Vaishnava centres are copying of Saiva with the names changed from Siva> to Krishna etc. arose in later times.> > Saiva darsana had its prevalence in India without any such gigantic> Acharyas like Sankaracharya of comparatively recent times. And that> shows its antiquity.> > The best way to realize the Unity of all existence is to chant 'namah> sivaya' .> > chandra hari> > , r_vani ramakrishnan> r_vani61@ wrote:> >> > Dear Chandra Hariji,> > Namaskar.> > I am blessed to have a contact with you.> > Yes, i don't disagree with you. We are two at present, myself and my> wife, since children are at different places on their jobs.> > In this old age, I am trying to find Advaitam from Dwaitam since all> the scriptures like Vedas, Upanishads etc guide us to Advaitam.> > Regards,> > D.Ramakrishnan.> >> > chandra_hari18 chandra_hari18@ wrote:> > Dear Ramkrishanji,> > "You and the rest of your family" - if I have to say so at least 2> members must be there in your home. I hope you won't disagree. In the> same way, when you say P_Brahmam and the rest at least two entities must> be there. So that will be called Dvaitam.> > Further, Isavasyam says: Isavasyamidam sarvam = what does it mean? Is> it advaitam? Aurobindo said: Isa had a heartiest laugh when> Sankaracharya wrote advatic commentary on this Upanishad.> > BU's Santi vakyam says: Poornamadah poornamidam: What are those adah> and idam? Are they not two?> > chandra hari> >> > , r_vani ramakrishnan> r_vani61@ wrote:> > >> > > Dear Chandra Hariji,> > > Namaskar.> > > Parabrahmam is only one that exists. Rest all is Maya or Illusion.> > > This is Advaitam.> > > Regards,> > > D.Ramakrishnan.> > >> > > chandra_hari18 chandra_hari18@ wrote:> > > Parabrahmam + Maya = 1+1 = 2 or 1? Is it Advaitam or Dvaitam?> > >> > > chandra hari> > >> > > , r_vani ramakrishnan> > > r_vani61@ wrote:> > >> > > Dear Jyothi,> > > As per Advaitha Vedanta, there is only one that exists, that is> > > Parabrahman.> > > And others that we see or hear is Maya, i.e., Illusion. Even though> > > they appear to exist, but they are not. They are impermanent and> perish in some time. Thats why it is said,> > > Brahma satyam - Jaganmithya.> > > Regards,> > > D.Ramakrishnan.> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > Chat on a cool, new interface. No download required. > >> > > > > > > > Sent from & #45; a smarter inbox.> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2007 Report Share Posted December 8, 2007 Dear Sir, You are thoroughly mistaken in respect of spiritual notions. India borrowed only Sanskrit from the Vedas /Aryans. Whatever wisdom is there in Sanskrit today, they are all Indian products - work of Naga sages like Kapila, Patanjali, Panini, Pingala etc. Had the spiritual wisdom beeen of the Aryans, Upanishads could have been there in Iran - born of Zend Avesta, the Parsi Bible/Vedas in the same language as Vedic Sanskrit. Aryan Mother language could have produced such works as Upanishads in Greece also and in Europe as well. Sanskrit is the recognized Mother of all Indo-European Languages. Only the chauvinist champions of Hindutva differ on this point. Tantrik wisdom got hijacked and that is what we see in the Vedas and Upanishads which are works of Naga Sages like Bhrgu and Visvamitra who got influenced by the Aryans. Arya-kshatriyas were exterminated 21 times by Naga-Bhargava_Parasurama and then India/Nagas took the language of Aryans. Saiva wisdom lies at the root of spirituality. Ekam sat vipra bahudha vadanti is priestly nonsense to make my money. Any nonsense can be justified by such verses. Vasudhaiva kutumbakam - see what a great ideal in Sanskrit. Then why the Sanskrit scholars had to flee from Kashmir? Why the Indian Brahmins cannot go and settle in Pakisthan or Afghanisthan? Ekam sat vipra is also such a saying - beautiful but of no use like AHAM BRAHMASMI. chandra hari , Venkataraman Hari <venkataraman_hari wrote: > > Dear Sri Chandra Hari, > > Namaskaram. The Advaita Siddhantha is not mere concept; but it is experiance. The people opposing Sankara says he is Maya Vadi and Prachchanna Boludha. Shri Sankara never contradicted the experiances of Bhagwan Buddha. But he proceeds further and proves the ultimate truth. Advaita is most scientific.Highest intellectuals. great scientists, thinkers have accepted it. Shri Sadasiva Brahmendra, Bhagawan Sri Ramana Maharishi are the examples to prove that the Advita Anubhava is possible and practicable. Advaita is a concept which is not against any other Siddanta. It is only an advaitin who can accept all the modes of worship, all the forms of worship and go beyond that and reach ultimate Para brhmam. Along with the concept of Maya Shri Sankara also explains the Vyavahara Sathya. That is why he established Shanmatha i.e. the Six paths of woshipping deities. Advaita is not mere negation; it is positive perfection and ultimate realisation. Shri > Ramkrishna Paramahamsa was initiated in to Nirvikalpa Samadhi but yet he was a great Upasaka of Bhavatharini. Shri Madhusudana Saraswati was also a great Advaitin but a great Krishna Bhakta. All the forms and names of different Devatas, Deities are many but ultimately they are all of the same Para Brahman. Sri Paramahamsa even practised the Western Religions and revealed all these paths leads to ultimate, all-pervading,Supreme ParaBrahman. Bhakti, Gnana, Vairagya,Tapas, Upasana ,Atma Vichara are the paths to elevate ourselves. The ultimate truth i.e.Para Brahman- The veda says " Sa Shiva: Sa Hari: Sa Indra: Sa: Akshara: Paramaswarat " --He is Shiva, He is Hari, He is Indra, He is Akshara and He is the ultimate Power. Any amount of logic discussions, reading, may not help us to realise the truth but an ounce of practice is better than thousand discussions. Bhagwan says in Geetha that Mama Maya Duratyaya/-It is dificult to conquer my Maya. Maya is a word not invented by > Sankara but it is the Illusory exhibition of the ParaBrahman which is nothing but this Virat. Once again I wish to insist that who ever persue a partcular path with stead fast belief and guidance of his Achrya or Guru let them continujethe same. That need not be a discussion lin this platform. I may be a practioner of Vedanta. Some may be of Devotional Path. Some may follow Yoga. Our Body, Mind and intellect are limited. All may not know everything. Before critisising the other path we must fully know abot it. That is not possible. But Going through a particular path and after reaching the ultimate we may realise that all are same and being the goal is the same-Veda says Ekam Sat Vipra Bhahuda Vadanthi. The same is told in the Geeta also " Yo Yo Yam Yam Tanum Bhakta: Sraddharchitum Ichchati ..... " Who ever worships me in what ever form he chooses with devotion and with steadfast determination I Bless them in the same form I worship. > Our subject isAstrology. The religion and Vedanta are very very deepl like ocean and a subject to be practiced and not to be discussed. Let is stick to ours. I hope that I am not mistaken. > With regards, > Hari Venkataraman. > > chandra_hari18 chandra_hari18 wrote: > > Dear Sir, > > Lot of dialogue has takes place on Sankara's mayavadadvaitam in India. > Sankara reduced Darsana to philosophy in India by borrowing the Saiva > concept of Maya and linking it up with Buddhist notions. His effort was > to defeat the Buddhas in Tarkkam. Sankara's brahmam cannot be > experienced by anyone. It is like a cow of the books that cannot eat > grass. > > Experience of the absolute, the only one, from which the creation arose > is possible only in Saiva darsanam. That is why in India from Kailasam > to Kanyakumari only Siva and his family is worshipped. Few isolated > Vaishnava centres are copying of Saiva with the names changed from Siva > to Krishna etc. arose in later times. > > Saiva darsana had its prevalence in India without any such gigantic > Acharyas like Sankaracharya of comparatively recent times. And that > shows its antiquity. > > The best way to realize the Unity of all existence is to chant 'namah > sivaya' . > > chandra hari > > , r_vani ramakrishnan > r_vani61@ wrote: > > > > Dear Chandra Hariji, > > Namaskar. > > I am blessed to have a contact with you. > > Yes, i don't disagree with you. We are two at present, myself and my > wife, since children are at different places on their jobs. > > In this old age, I am trying to find Advaitam from Dwaitam since all > the scriptures like Vedas, Upanishads etc guide us to Advaitam. > > Regards, > > D.Ramakrishnan. > > > > chandra_hari18 chandra_hari18@ wrote: > > Dear Ramkrishanji, > > " You and the rest of your family " - if I have to say so at least 2 > members must be there in your home. I hope you won't disagree. In the > same way, when you say P_Brahmam and the rest at least two entities must > be there. So that will be called Dvaitam. > > Further, Isavasyam says: Isavasyamidam sarvam = what does it mean? Is > it advaitam? Aurobindo said: Isa had a heartiest laugh when > Sankaracharya wrote advatic commentary on this Upanishad. > > BU's Santi vakyam says: Poornamadah poornamidam: What are those adah > and idam? Are they not two? > > chandra hari > > > > , r_vani ramakrishnan > r_vani61@ wrote: > > > > > > Dear Chandra Hariji, > > > Namaskar. > > > Parabrahmam is only one that exists. Rest all is Maya or Illusion. > > > This is Advaitam. > > > Regards, > > > D.Ramakrishnan. > > > > > > chandra_hari18 chandra_hari18@ wrote: > > > Parabrahmam + Maya = 1+1 = 2 or 1? Is it Advaitam or Dvaitam? > > > > > > chandra hari > > > > > > , r_vani ramakrishnan > > > r_vani61@ wrote: > > > > > > Dear Jyothi, > > > As per Advaitha Vedanta, there is only one that exists, that is > > > Parabrahman. > > > And others that we see or hear is Maya, i.e., Illusion. Even though > > > they appear to exist, but they are not. They are impermanent and > perish in some time. Thats why it is said, > > > Brahma satyam - Jaganmithya. > > > Regards, > > > D.Ramakrishnan. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chat on a cool, new interface. No download required. > > > Sent from & #45; a smarter inbox. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2007 Report Share Posted December 9, 2007 Dear Chandra hari, Can you please tell me these: 1.what's agni hotram and how you know no one today performing agni hotram. 2. what's purva mimasa and uttara mimamsa. Your questions contradict. 3. you consider all Brahmins are advaidins. From what you wrote first about adi sankaracharya, I doubt you have read his life. Did you read that all Brahmins at that time are advaidins and supporters of adi sankaracharya? And what made you think that all Brahmins today are advaidins? 4. What you know abt Vedas and Upanishads in particular. " Twisted and stretched interpretations of Upanishads " ? Upanishads are my favourite subject, so I want to know about your reading of Upanishads. 5. I felt you are thinking Adi sankara brought in advaida philosophy. Where you read this? 6. " Just expressions of the curiosity of a chandalan. " – ???. I do not think its genuine curiosity. Anyways, please write more. 7. you know what the term " jeevan mukta " denotes? Thanks in advance. Best regards, Saaji Bhaskaran , " chandra_hari18 " <chandra_hari18 wrote: > > > Dear Sir, > > After completing the prasthana-traya bhashya only Sankaracharya roamed > Kasi and then the legends say that the Chandala appeared and became his > Guru. I worship that Chandala and his darsana is Sivaadvaitam. > Maneesha-panchakam was wrote in praise of the Chandala. > > If Sankara's mayadvaitam had any spiritual contribution in India beyond > lip service, how is it that castiesm got perpetuated in India and became > the cornerstone of Brahmnism? What kind of Advaitic experience did the 4 > Maths of Sankara represented during the 1000 years after Sankara? > > Even today what kind of Advaitic experience guide the 4 Maths of > Sankaracharya where succession is decided by the caste of the Yoni? > > In contrast why the Saiva_Siddhas like 64 Nayanars despised casteism and > how even pulaya, panan and paraya could become Siddhas in Tamizhakam and > Kerala? > > Why did the Brahmins approach Sri Narayana Guru with protest when Guru > installed Siva at Aruvippuram? > > Why the Brahmins doing 'Aham Brahmasmi' lip service have become Tantris > to Lingam, Yoni and Sarpam? > > Which Veda or Upanishad / Sruti and Smrtis call for or authorize such > practices by Aham-Brahmasmis? > > In which Veda can you find the word 'Puja' that is central to the Hindu > spirituality? > > Why the agnihotram perished and Lingam and Yoni came to be the objects > of worships by Brahmins? > > When Agnihotram perished how the Vedic Gods like Indra, Agni, Maruts etc > can survive today? If the Gods also perished along with the Agnihotram > what is the use of Vedic mantras today? How can it be good for anything? > > What is the use of Vedas and Upanishads without the Agnihotram? > > With the Jnanakantam alone (without Karmakandam) can Brahmam be > attained? Why then the Vedic Brahmins have taken over Tantrik > Karmakandam? > > What made Sankaracharya to reject the Purvamimamsa in favor of > Uttaramimamsa? > > Beyond the twisted and stretched interpretations of the Upanishads at a > time when logic or tarkkam was taken to be a test for truth, Sankara > could manipulate people with Drshtantham. Drshtantam is not experience. > Beyond Drshtanthams what did Sankara teach for a spiritual experience? > > In Vivekachoodamani Sankaracharya has even decried Yoga. In Gita he > created with collaboration of his Brahminist champions wrote such > nonsense - humbug compilation - as no one may understand the real Yoga > under discussion. > > I will continue my discussion after seeing your answers to my queries. I > am trying to learn from you - questions are not meant to be offensive. > Just expressions of the curiosity of a chandalan. > > chandra hari > > > > , Venkataraman Hari > <venkataraman_hari@> wrote: > > > > Dear Sri Chandra Hari, > > > > Namaskaram. The Advaita Siddhantha is not mere concept; but it is > experiance. The people opposing Sankara says he is Maya Vadi and > Prachchanna Boludha. Shri Sankara never contradicted the experiances of > Bhagwan Buddha. But he proceeds further and proves the ultimate truth. > Advaita is most scientific.Highest intellectuals. great scientists, > thinkers have accepted it. Shri Sadasiva Brahmendra, Bhagawan Sri Ramana > Maharishi are the examples to prove that the Advita Anubhava is possible > and practicable. Advaita is a concept which is not against any other > Siddanta. It is only an advaitin who can accept all the modes of > worship, all the forms of worship and go beyond that and reach ultimate > Para brhmam. Along with the concept of Maya Shri Sankara also explains > the Vyavahara Sathya. That is why he established Shanmatha i.e. the Six > paths of woshipping deities. Advaita is not mere negation; it is > positive perfection and ultimate realisation. Shri > > Ramkrishna Paramahamsa was initiated in to Nirvikalpa Samadhi but yet > he was a great Upasaka of Bhavatharini. Shri Madhusudana Saraswati was > also a great Advaitin but a great Krishna Bhakta. All the forms and > names of different Devatas, Deities are many but ultimately they are all > of the same Para Brahman. Sri Paramahamsa even practised the Western > Religions and revealed all these paths leads to ultimate, > all-pervading,Supreme ParaBrahman. Bhakti, Gnana, Vairagya,Tapas, > Upasana ,Atma Vichara are the paths to elevate ourselves. The ultimate > truth i.e.Para Brahman- The veda says " Sa Shiva: Sa Hari: Sa Indra: Sa: > Akshara: Paramaswarat " --He is Shiva, He is Hari, He is Indra, He is > Akshara and He is the ultimate Power. Any amount of logic discussions, > reading, may not help us to realise the truth but an ounce of practice > is better than thousand discussions. Bhagwan says in Geetha that Mama > Maya Duratyaya/-It is dificult to conquer my Maya. Maya is a word not > invented by > > Sankara but it is the Illusory exhibition of the ParaBrahman which is > nothing but this Virat. Once again I wish to insist that who ever persue > a partcular path with stead fast belief and guidance of his Achrya or > Guru let them continujethe same. That need not be a discussion lin this > platform. I may be a practioner of Vedanta. Some may be of Devotional > Path. Some may follow Yoga. Our Body, Mind and intellect are limited. > All may not know everything. Before critisising the other path we must > fully know abot it. That is not possible. But Going through a particular > path and after reaching the ultimate we may realise that all are same > and being the goal is the same-Veda says Ekam Sat Vipra Bhahuda > Vadanthi. The same is told in the Geeta also " Yo Yo Yam Yam Tanum > Bhakta: Sraddharchitum Ichchati ..... " Who ever worships me in what ever > form he chooses with devotion and with steadfast determination I Bless > them in the same form I worship. > > Our subject isAstrology. The religion and Vedanta are very very deepl > like ocean and a subject to be practiced and not to be discussed. Let is > stick to ours. I hope that I am not mistaken. > > With regards, > > Hari Venkataraman. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > chandra_hari18 chandra_hari18@ wrote: > > > > Dear Sir, > > > > Lot of dialogue has takes place on Sankara's mayavadadvaitam in India. > > Sankara reduced Darsana to philosophy in India by borrowing the Saiva > > concept of Maya and linking it up with Buddhist notions. His effort > was > > to defeat the Buddhas in Tarkkam. Sankara's brahmam cannot be > > experienced by anyone. It is like a cow of the books that cannot eat > > grass. > > > > Experience of the absolute, the only one, from which the creation > arose > > is possible only in Saiva darsanam. That is why in India from Kailasam > > to Kanyakumari only Siva and his family is worshipped. Few isolated > > Vaishnava centres are copying of Saiva with the names changed from > Siva > > to Krishna etc. arose in later times. > > > > Saiva darsana had its prevalence in India without any such gigantic > > Acharyas like Sankaracharya of comparatively recent times. And that > > shows its antiquity. > > > > The best way to realize the Unity of all existence is to chant 'namah > > sivaya' . > > > > chandra hari > > > > , r_vani ramakrishnan > > r_vani61@ wrote: > > > > > > Dear Chandra Hariji, > > > Namaskar. > > > I am blessed to have a contact with you. > > > Yes, i don't disagree with you. We are two at present, myself and my > > wife, since children are at different places on their jobs. > > > In this old age, I am trying to find Advaitam from Dwaitam since all > > the scriptures like Vedas, Upanishads etc guide us to Advaitam. > > > Regards, > > > D.Ramakrishnan. > > > > > > chandra_hari18 chandra_hari18@ wrote: > > > Dear Ramkrishanji, > > > " You and the rest of your family " - if I have to say so at least 2 > > members must be there in your home. I hope you won't disagree. In the > > same way, when you say P_Brahmam and the rest at least two entities > must > > be there. So that will be called Dvaitam. > > > Further, Isavasyam says: Isavasyamidam sarvam = what does it mean? > Is > > it advaitam? Aurobindo said: Isa had a heartiest laugh when > > Sankaracharya wrote advatic commentary on this Upanishad. > > > BU's Santi vakyam says: Poornamadah poornamidam: What are those adah > > and idam? Are they not two? > > > chandra hari > > > > > > , r_vani ramakrishnan > > r_vani61@ wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Chandra Hariji, > > > > Namaskar. > > > > Parabrahmam is only one that exists. Rest all is Maya or Illusion. > > > > This is Advaitam. > > > > Regards, > > > > D.Ramakrishnan. > > > > > > > > chandra_hari18 chandra_hari18@ wrote: > > > > Parabrahmam + Maya = 1+1 = 2 or 1? Is it Advaitam or Dvaitam? > > > > > > > > chandra hari > > > > > > > > , r_vani > ramakrishnan > > > > r_vani61@ wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Jyothi, > > > > As per Advaitha Vedanta, there is only one that exists, that is > > > > Parabrahman. > > > > And others that we see or hear is Maya, i.e., Illusion. Even > though > > > > they appear to exist, but they are not. They are impermanent and > > perish in some time. Thats why it is said, > > > > Brahma satyam - Jaganmithya. > > > > Regards, > > > > D.Ramakrishnan. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chat on a cool, new interface. No download required. Click here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent from & #45; a smarter inbox. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2007 Report Share Posted December 9, 2007 Dear Saaji, Hari was presenting a perspective - his own opinian. Just see the extra information coming from that extra perspective. I would love to see an informative debate between you two or between any members - but please keep sentiments and emotions out of the discussion. And proceed by collecting all your information, logic and arguments - all the best. Love and regards, Sreenadh , " Saaji Bhaskaran " <saajik wrote: > > Dear Chandra hari, > > Can you please tell me these: > > 1.what's agni hotram and how you know no one today performing agni > hotram. > > 2. what's purva mimasa and uttara mimamsa. Your questions contradict. > > 3. you consider all Brahmins are advaidins. From what you wrote > first about adi sankaracharya, I doubt you have read his life. Did > you read that all Brahmins at that time are advaidins and supporters > of adi sankaracharya? And what made you think that all Brahmins > today are advaidins? > > 4. What you know abt Vedas and Upanishads in particular. " Twisted > and stretched interpretations of Upanishads " ? Upanishads are my > favourite subject, so I want to know about your reading of > Upanishads. > > 5. I felt you are thinking Adi sankara brought in advaida > philosophy. Where you read this? > > 6. " Just expressions of the curiosity of a chandalan. " – ???. I do > not think its genuine curiosity. Anyways, please write more. > > 7. you know what the term " jeevan mukta " denotes? > > Thanks in advance. > > Best regards, > > Saaji Bhaskaran > > > > , " chandra_hari18 " > <chandra_hari18@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Sir, > > > > After completing the prasthana-traya bhashya only Sankaracharya > roamed > > Kasi and then the legends say that the Chandala appeared and > became his > > Guru. I worship that Chandala and his darsana is Sivaadvaitam. > > Maneesha-panchakam was wrote in praise of the Chandala. > > > > If Sankara's mayadvaitam had any spiritual contribution in India > beyond > > lip service, how is it that castiesm got perpetuated in India and > became > > the cornerstone of Brahmnism? What kind of Advaitic experience did > the 4 > > Maths of Sankara represented during the 1000 years after Sankara? > > > > Even today what kind of Advaitic experience guide the 4 Maths of > > Sankaracharya where succession is decided by the caste of the Yoni? > > > > In contrast why the Saiva_Siddhas like 64 Nayanars despised > casteism and > > how even pulaya, panan and paraya could become Siddhas in > Tamizhakam and > > Kerala? > > > > Why did the Brahmins approach Sri Narayana Guru with protest when > Guru > > installed Siva at Aruvippuram? > > > > Why the Brahmins doing 'Aham Brahmasmi' lip service have become > Tantris > > to Lingam, Yoni and Sarpam? > > > > Which Veda or Upanishad / Sruti and Smrtis call for or authorize > such > > practices by Aham-Brahmasmis? > > > > In which Veda can you find the word 'Puja' that is central to the > Hindu > > spirituality? > > > > Why the agnihotram perished and Lingam and Yoni came to be the > objects > > of worships by Brahmins? > > > > When Agnihotram perished how the Vedic Gods like Indra, Agni, > Maruts etc > > can survive today? If the Gods also perished along with the > Agnihotram > > what is the use of Vedic mantras today? How can it be good for > anything? > > > > What is the use of Vedas and Upanishads without the Agnihotram? > > > > With the Jnanakantam alone (without Karmakandam) can Brahmam be > > attained? Why then the Vedic Brahmins have taken over Tantrik > > Karmakandam? > > > > What made Sankaracharya to reject the Purvamimamsa in favor of > > Uttaramimamsa? > > > > Beyond the twisted and stretched interpretations of the Upanishads > at a > > time when logic or tarkkam was taken to be a test for truth, > Sankara > > could manipulate people with Drshtantham. Drshtantam is not > experience. > > Beyond Drshtanthams what did Sankara teach for a spiritual > experience? > > > > In Vivekachoodamani Sankaracharya has even decried Yoga. In Gita > he > > created with collaboration of his Brahminist champions wrote such > > nonsense - humbug compilation - as no one may understand the real > Yoga > > under discussion. > > > > I will continue my discussion after seeing your answers to my > queries. I > > am trying to learn from you - questions are not meant to be > offensive. > > Just expressions of the curiosity of a chandalan. > > > > chandra hari > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Venkataraman Hari > > <venkataraman_hari@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Sri Chandra Hari, > > > > > > Namaskaram. The Advaita Siddhantha is not mere concept; but it is > > experiance. The people opposing Sankara says he is Maya Vadi and > > Prachchanna Boludha. Shri Sankara never contradicted the > experiances of > > Bhagwan Buddha. But he proceeds further and proves the ultimate > truth. > > Advaita is most scientific.Highest intellectuals. great scientists, > > thinkers have accepted it. Shri Sadasiva Brahmendra, Bhagawan Sri > Ramana > > Maharishi are the examples to prove that the Advita Anubhava is > possible > > and practicable. Advaita is a concept which is not against any > other > > Siddanta. It is only an advaitin who can accept all the modes of > > worship, all the forms of worship and go beyond that and reach > ultimate > > Para brhmam. Along with the concept of Maya Shri Sankara also > explains > > the Vyavahara Sathya. That is why he established Shanmatha i.e. > the Six > > paths of woshipping deities. Advaita is not mere negation; it is > > positive perfection and ultimate realisation. Shri > > > Ramkrishna Paramahamsa was initiated in to Nirvikalpa Samadhi > but yet > > he was a great Upasaka of Bhavatharini. Shri Madhusudana Saraswati > was > > also a great Advaitin but a great Krishna Bhakta. All the forms and > > names of different Devatas, Deities are many but ultimately they > are all > > of the same Para Brahman. Sri Paramahamsa even practised the > Western > > Religions and revealed all these paths leads to ultimate, > > all-pervading,Supreme ParaBrahman. Bhakti, Gnana, Vairagya,Tapas, > > Upasana ,Atma Vichara are the paths to elevate ourselves. The > ultimate > > truth i.e.Para Brahman- The veda says " Sa Shiva: Sa Hari: Sa > Indra: Sa: > > Akshara: Paramaswarat " --He is Shiva, He is Hari, He is Indra, He is > > Akshara and He is the ultimate Power. Any amount of logic > discussions, > > reading, may not help us to realise the truth but an ounce of > practice > > is better than thousand discussions. Bhagwan says in Geetha that > Mama > > Maya Duratyaya/-It is dificult to conquer my Maya. Maya is a word > not > > invented by > > > Sankara but it is the Illusory exhibition of the ParaBrahman > which is > > nothing but this Virat. Once again I wish to insist that who ever > persue > > a partcular path with stead fast belief and guidance of his Achrya > or > > Guru let them continujethe same. That need not be a discussion lin > this > > platform. I may be a practioner of Vedanta. Some may be of > Devotional > > Path. Some may follow Yoga. Our Body, Mind and intellect are > limited. > > All may not know everything. Before critisising the other path we > must > > fully know abot it. That is not possible. But Going through a > particular > > path and after reaching the ultimate we may realise that all are > same > > and being the goal is the same-Veda says Ekam Sat Vipra Bhahuda > > Vadanthi. The same is told in the Geeta also " Yo Yo Yam Yam Tanum > > Bhakta: Sraddharchitum Ichchati ..... " Who ever worships me in what > ever > > form he chooses with devotion and with steadfast determination I > Bless > > them in the same form I worship. > > > Our subject isAstrology. The religion and Vedanta are very very > deepl > > like ocean and a subject to be practiced and not to be discussed. > Let is > > stick to ours. I hope that I am not mistaken. > > > With regards, > > > Hari Venkataraman. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > chandra_hari18 chandra_hari18@ wrote: > > > > > > Dear Sir, > > > > > > Lot of dialogue has takes place on Sankara's mayavadadvaitam in > India. > > > Sankara reduced Darsana to philosophy in India by borrowing the > Saiva > > > concept of Maya and linking it up with Buddhist notions. His > effort > > was > > > to defeat the Buddhas in Tarkkam. Sankara's brahmam cannot be > > > experienced by anyone. It is like a cow of the books that cannot > eat > > > grass. > > > > > > Experience of the absolute, the only one, from which the creation > > arose > > > is possible only in Saiva darsanam. That is why in India from > Kailasam > > > to Kanyakumari only Siva and his family is worshipped. Few > isolated > > > Vaishnava centres are copying of Saiva with the names changed > from > > Siva > > > to Krishna etc. arose in later times. > > > > > > Saiva darsana had its prevalence in India without any such > gigantic > > > Acharyas like Sankaracharya of comparatively recent times. And > that > > > shows its antiquity. > > > > > > The best way to realize the Unity of all existence is to > chant 'namah > > > sivaya' . > > > > > > chandra hari > > > > > > , r_vani > ramakrishnan > > > r_vani61@ wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Chandra Hariji, > > > > Namaskar. > > > > I am blessed to have a contact with you. > > > > Yes, i don't disagree with you. We are two at present, myself > and my > > > wife, since children are at different places on their jobs. > > > > In this old age, I am trying to find Advaitam from Dwaitam > since all > > > the scriptures like Vedas, Upanishads etc guide us to Advaitam. > > > > Regards, > > > > D.Ramakrishnan. > > > > > > > > chandra_hari18 chandra_hari18@ wrote: > > > > Dear Ramkrishanji, > > > > " You and the rest of your family " - if I have to say so at > least 2 > > > members must be there in your home. I hope you won't disagree. > In the > > > same way, when you say P_Brahmam and the rest at least two > entities > > must > > > be there. So that will be called Dvaitam. > > > > Further, Isavasyam says: Isavasyamidam sarvam = what does it > mean? > > Is > > > it advaitam? Aurobindo said: Isa had a heartiest laugh when > > > Sankaracharya wrote advatic commentary on this Upanishad. > > > > BU's Santi vakyam says: Poornamadah poornamidam: What are > those adah > > > and idam? Are they not two? > > > > chandra hari > > > > > > > > , r_vani > ramakrishnan > > > r_vani61@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Chandra Hariji, > > > > > Namaskar. > > > > > Parabrahmam is only one that exists. Rest all is Maya or > Illusion. > > > > > This is Advaitam. > > > > > Regards, > > > > > D.Ramakrishnan. > > > > > > > > > > chandra_hari18 chandra_hari18@ wrote: > > > > > Parabrahmam + Maya = 1+1 = 2 or 1? Is it Advaitam or Dvaitam? > > > > > > > > > > chandra hari > > > > > > > > > > , r_vani > > ramakrishnan > > > > > r_vani61@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Jyothi, > > > > > As per Advaitha Vedanta, there is only one that exists, that > is > > > > > Parabrahman. > > > > > And others that we see or hear is Maya, i.e., Illusion. Even > > though > > > > > they appear to exist, but they are not. They are impermanent > and > > > perish in some time. Thats why it is said, > > > > > Brahma satyam - Jaganmithya. > > > > > Regards, > > > > > D.Ramakrishnan. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chat on a cool, new interface. No download required. Click > here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent from & #45; a smarter inbox. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2007 Report Share Posted December 9, 2007 Dear Saji Bhaskar, Agnihotram, Purva and Uttara mimamsas etc it is better to search and study by yourself as I don't think it is genuine curiosity. Regarding Sankara and Mayavadadvaitam I have spoken - my words are intended to convey the popular perception of Sankara as the main proponent of the school beginning with Badarayana, Gaudapada, Govinda and Sankara. Gaudapada himself d to many Buddhist notions. Regarding Brahmins too - my reference is to those Brahmins who adhere to Brahminism and Chaturvarnyam in the 1000 years that followed Sankara. Regarding Upanishads I have already addressed few questions. If that is your area of expertize, you can throw some light as to which are the Upanishads that speak of Mayavada-advaitam? How do you look at the Samkhya if you are a follower of Mayavadadvaitam? And also if you so like you may clarify as to what is 'atma-maya' that Sankara introduces at the beginning of his commentary on Bhagavad Gita? How the Brahmam can descend to the earthly body by Atma-maya? Which Upanishad speaks of this mechanism by which Sankara explains Krishna avtar? If you can read Malayalam, I can upload a more detailed discussion. chandra hari , " Saaji Bhaskaran " <saajik wrote: > > Dear Chandra hari, > > Can you please tell me these: > > 1.what's agni hotram and how you know no one today performing agni > hotram. > > 2. what's purva mimasa and uttara mimamsa. Your questions contradict. > > 3. you consider all Brahmins are advaidins. From what you wrote > first about adi sankaracharya, I doubt you have read his life. Did > you read that all Brahmins at that time are advaidins and supporters > of adi sankaracharya? And what made you think that all Brahmins > today are advaidins? > > 4. What you know abt Vedas and Upanishads in particular. " Twisted > and stretched interpretations of Upanishads " ? Upanishads are my > favourite subject, so I want to know about your reading of > Upanishads. > > 5. I felt you are thinking Adi sankara brought in advaida > philosophy. Where you read this? > > 6. " Just expressions of the curiosity of a chandalan. " – ???. I do > not think its genuine curiosity. Anyways, please write more. > > 7. you know what the term " jeevan mukta " denotes? > > Thanks in advance. > > Best regards, > > Saaji Bhaskaran > > > > , " chandra_hari18 " > chandra_hari18@ wrote: > > > > > > Dear Sir, > > > > After completing the prasthana-traya bhashya only Sankaracharya > roamed > > Kasi and then the legends say that the Chandala appeared and > became his > > Guru. I worship that Chandala and his darsana is Sivaadvaitam. > > Maneesha-panchakam was wrote in praise of the Chandala. > > > > If Sankara's mayadvaitam had any spiritual contribution in India > beyond > > lip service, how is it that castiesm got perpetuated in India and > became > > the cornerstone of Brahmnism? What kind of Advaitic experience did > the 4 > > Maths of Sankara represented during the 1000 years after Sankara? > > > > Even today what kind of Advaitic experience guide the 4 Maths of > > Sankaracharya where succession is decided by the caste of the Yoni? > > > > In contrast why the Saiva_Siddhas like 64 Nayanars despised > casteism and > > how even pulaya, panan and paraya could become Siddhas in > Tamizhakam and > > Kerala? > > > > Why did the Brahmins approach Sri Narayana Guru with protest when > Guru > > installed Siva at Aruvippuram? > > > > Why the Brahmins doing 'Aham Brahmasmi' lip service have become > Tantris > > to Lingam, Yoni and Sarpam? > > > > Which Veda or Upanishad / Sruti and Smrtis call for or authorize > such > > practices by Aham-Brahmasmis? > > > > In which Veda can you find the word 'Puja' that is central to the > Hindu > > spirituality? > > > > Why the agnihotram perished and Lingam and Yoni came to be the > objects > > of worships by Brahmins? > > > > When Agnihotram perished how the Vedic Gods like Indra, Agni, > Maruts etc > > can survive today? If the Gods also perished along with the > Agnihotram > > what is the use of Vedic mantras today? How can it be good for > anything? > > > > What is the use of Vedas and Upanishads without the Agnihotram? > > > > With the Jnanakantam alone (without Karmakandam) can Brahmam be > > attained? Why then the Vedic Brahmins have taken over Tantrik > > Karmakandam? > > > > What made Sankaracharya to reject the Purvamimamsa in favor of > > Uttaramimamsa? > > > > Beyond the twisted and stretched interpretations of the Upanishads > at a > > time when logic or tarkkam was taken to be a test for truth, > Sankara > > could manipulate people with Drshtantham. Drshtantam is not > experience. > > Beyond Drshtanthams what did Sankara teach for a spiritual > experience? > > > > In Vivekachoodamani Sankaracharya has even decried Yoga. In Gita > he > > created with collaboration of his Brahminist champions wrote such > > nonsense - humbug compilation - as no one may understand the real > Yoga > > under discussion. > > > > I will continue my discussion after seeing your answers to my > queries. I > > am trying to learn from you - questions are not meant to be > offensive. > > Just expressions of the curiosity of a chandalan. > > > > chandra hari > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Venkataraman Hari > > <venkataraman_hari@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Sri Chandra Hari, > > > > > > Namaskaram. The Advaita Siddhantha is not mere concept; but it is > > experiance. The people opposing Sankara says he is Maya Vadi and > > Prachchanna Boludha. Shri Sankara never contradicted the > experiances of > > Bhagwan Buddha. But he proceeds further and proves the ultimate > truth. > > Advaita is most scientific.Highest intellectuals. great scientists, > > thinkers have accepted it. Shri Sadasiva Brahmendra, Bhagawan Sri > Ramana > > Maharishi are the examples to prove that the Advita Anubhava is > possible > > and practicable. Advaita is a concept which is not against any > other > > Siddanta. It is only an advaitin who can accept all the modes of > > worship, all the forms of worship and go beyond that and reach > ultimate > > Para brhmam. Along with the concept of Maya Shri Sankara also > explains > > the Vyavahara Sathya. That is why he established Shanmatha i.e. > the Six > > paths of woshipping deities. Advaita is not mere negation; it is > > positive perfection and ultimate realisation. Shri > > > Ramkrishna Paramahamsa was initiated in to Nirvikalpa Samadhi > but yet > > he was a great Upasaka of Bhavatharini. Shri Madhusudana Saraswati > was > > also a great Advaitin but a great Krishna Bhakta. All the forms and > > names of different Devatas, Deities are many but ultimately they > are all > > of the same Para Brahman. Sri Paramahamsa even practised the > Western > > Religions and revealed all these paths leads to ultimate, > > all-pervading,Supreme ParaBrahman. Bhakti, Gnana, Vairagya,Tapas, > > Upasana ,Atma Vichara are the paths to elevate ourselves. The > ultimate > > truth i.e.Para Brahman- The veda says " Sa Shiva: Sa Hari: Sa > Indra: Sa: > > Akshara: Paramaswarat " --He is Shiva, He is Hari, He is Indra, He is > > Akshara and He is the ultimate Power. Any amount of logic > discussions, > > reading, may not help us to realise the truth but an ounce of > practice > > is better than thousand discussions. Bhagwan says in Geetha that > Mama > > Maya Duratyaya/-It is dificult to conquer my Maya. Maya is a word > not > > invented by > > > Sankara but it is the Illusory exhibition of the ParaBrahman > which is > > nothing but this Virat. Once again I wish to insist that who ever > persue > > a partcular path with stead fast belief and guidance of his Achrya > or > > Guru let them continujethe same. That need not be a discussion lin > this > > platform. I may be a practioner of Vedanta. Some may be of > Devotional > > Path. Some may follow Yoga. Our Body, Mind and intellect are > limited. > > All may not know everything. Before critisising the other path we > must > > fully know abot it. That is not possible. But Going through a > particular > > path and after reaching the ultimate we may realise that all are > same > > and being the goal is the same-Veda says Ekam Sat Vipra Bhahuda > > Vadanthi. The same is told in the Geeta also " Yo Yo Yam Yam Tanum > > Bhakta: Sraddharchitum Ichchati ..... " Who ever worships me in what > ever > > form he chooses with devotion and with steadfast determination I > Bless > > them in the same form I worship. > > > Our subject isAstrology. The religion and Vedanta are very very > deepl > > like ocean and a subject to be practiced and not to be discussed. > Let is > > stick to ours. I hope that I am not mistaken. > > > With regards, > > > Hari Venkataraman. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > chandra_hari18 chandra_hari18@ wrote: > > > > > > Dear Sir, > > > > > > Lot of dialogue has takes place on Sankara's mayavadadvaitam in > India. > > > Sankara reduced Darsana to philosophy in India by borrowing the > Saiva > > > concept of Maya and linking it up with Buddhist notions. His > effort > > was > > > to defeat the Buddhas in Tarkkam. Sankara's brahmam cannot be > > > experienced by anyone. It is like a cow of the books that cannot > eat > > > grass. > > > > > > Experience of the absolute, the only one, from which the creation > > arose > > > is possible only in Saiva darsanam. That is why in India from > Kailasam > > > to Kanyakumari only Siva and his family is worshipped. Few > isolated > > > Vaishnava centres are copying of Saiva with the names changed > from > > Siva > > > to Krishna etc. arose in later times. > > > > > > Saiva darsana had its prevalence in India without any such > gigantic > > > Acharyas like Sankaracharya of comparatively recent times. And > that > > > shows its antiquity. > > > > > > The best way to realize the Unity of all existence is to > chant 'namah > > > sivaya' . > > > > > > chandra hari > > > > > > , r_vani > ramakrishnan > > > r_vani61@ wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Chandra Hariji, > > > > Namaskar. > > > > I am blessed to have a contact with you. > > > > Yes, i don't disagree with you. We are two at present, myself > and my > > > wife, since children are at different places on their jobs. > > > > In this old age, I am trying to find Advaitam from Dwaitam > since all > > > the scriptures like Vedas, Upanishads etc guide us to Advaitam. > > > > Regards, > > > > D.Ramakrishnan. > > > > > > > > chandra_hari18 chandra_hari18@ wrote: > > > > Dear Ramkrishanji, > > > > " You and the rest of your family " - if I have to say so at > least 2 > > > members must be there in your home. I hope you won't disagree. > In the > > > same way, when you say P_Brahmam and the rest at least two > entities > > must > > > be there. So that will be called Dvaitam. > > > > Further, Isavasyam says: Isavasyamidam sarvam = what does it > mean? > > Is > > > it advaitam? Aurobindo said: Isa had a heartiest laugh when > > > Sankaracharya wrote advatic commentary on this Upanishad. > > > > BU's Santi vakyam says: Poornamadah poornamidam: What are > those adah > > > and idam? Are they not two? > > > > chandra hari > > > > > > > > , r_vani > ramakrishnan > > > r_vani61@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Chandra Hariji, > > > > > Namaskar. > > > > > Parabrahmam is only one that exists. Rest all is Maya or > Illusion. > > > > > This is Advaitam. > > > > > Regards, > > > > > D.Ramakrishnan. > > > > > > > > > > chandra_hari18 chandra_hari18@ wrote: > > > > > Parabrahmam + Maya = 1+1 = 2 or 1? Is it Advaitam or Dvaitam? > > > > > > > > > > chandra hari > > > > > > > > > > , r_vani > > ramakrishnan > > > > > r_vani61@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Jyothi, > > > > > As per Advaitha Vedanta, there is only one that exists, that > is > > > > > Parabrahman. > > > > > And others that we see or hear is Maya, i.e., Illusion. Even > > though > > > > > they appear to exist, but they are not. They are impermanent > and > > > perish in some time. Thats why it is said, > > > > > Brahma satyam - Jaganmithya. > > > > > Regards, > > > > > D.Ramakrishnan. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chat on a cool, new interface. No download required. Click > here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent from & #45; a smarter inbox. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2007 Report Share Posted December 9, 2007 Dear Sreenadh, I have added two files in Malayalam. Hindus and Ahindus which discusses the so called Vedic past and Brahminism and the second is a commentary on Isa Upanishad. How twisted and stretched are the interpretations of Sankara may be understood from the examples discussed there in. Please help with a gist in English if needed. chandra hari , " Sreenadh " <sreesog wrote: > > Dear Saaji, > Hari was presenting a perspective - his own opinian. Just see the > extra information coming from that extra perspective. I would love > to see an informative debate between you two or between any members - > but please keep sentiments and emotions out of the discussion. And > proceed by collecting all your information, logic and arguments - all > the best. > Love and regards, > Sreenadh > > , " Saaji Bhaskaran " > saajik@ wrote: > > > > Dear Chandra hari, > > > > Can you please tell me these: > > > > 1.what's agni hotram and how you know no one today performing agni > > hotram. > > > > 2. what's purva mimasa and uttara mimamsa. Your questions contradict. > > > > 3. you consider all Brahmins are advaidins. From what you wrote > > first about adi sankaracharya, I doubt you have read his life. Did > > you read that all Brahmins at that time are advaidins and supporters > > of adi sankaracharya? And what made you think that all Brahmins > > today are advaidins? > > > > 4. What you know abt Vedas and Upanishads in particular. " Twisted > > and stretched interpretations of Upanishads " ? Upanishads are my > > favourite subject, so I want to know about your reading of > > Upanishads. > > > > 5. I felt you are thinking Adi sankara brought in advaida > > philosophy. Where you read this? > > > > 6. " Just expressions of the curiosity of a chandalan. " – ???. I do > > not think its genuine curiosity. Anyways, please write more. > > > > 7. you know what the term " jeevan mukta " denotes? > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > Best regards, > > > > Saaji Bhaskaran > > > > > > > > , " chandra_hari18 " > > <chandra_hari18@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Dear Sir, > > > > > > After completing the prasthana-traya bhashya only Sankaracharya > > roamed > > > Kasi and then the legends say that the Chandala appeared and > > became his > > > Guru. I worship that Chandala and his darsana is Sivaadvaitam. > > > Maneesha-panchakam was wrote in praise of the Chandala. > > > > > > If Sankara's mayadvaitam had any spiritual contribution in India > > beyond > > > lip service, how is it that castiesm got perpetuated in India and > > became > > > the cornerstone of Brahmnism? What kind of Advaitic experience did > > the 4 > > > Maths of Sankara represented during the 1000 years after Sankara? > > > > > > Even today what kind of Advaitic experience guide the 4 Maths of > > > Sankaracharya where succession is decided by the caste of the Yoni? > > > > > > In contrast why the Saiva_Siddhas like 64 Nayanars despised > > casteism and > > > how even pulaya, panan and paraya could become Siddhas in > > Tamizhakam and > > > Kerala? > > > > > > Why did the Brahmins approach Sri Narayana Guru with protest when > > Guru > > > installed Siva at Aruvippuram? > > > > > > Why the Brahmins doing 'Aham Brahmasmi' lip service have become > > Tantris > > > to Lingam, Yoni and Sarpam? > > > > > > Which Veda or Upanishad / Sruti and Smrtis call for or authorize > > such > > > practices by Aham-Brahmasmis? > > > > > > In which Veda can you find the word 'Puja' that is central to the > > Hindu > > > spirituality? > > > > > > Why the agnihotram perished and Lingam and Yoni came to be the > > objects > > > of worships by Brahmins? > > > > > > When Agnihotram perished how the Vedic Gods like Indra, Agni, > > Maruts etc > > > can survive today? If the Gods also perished along with the > > Agnihotram > > > what is the use of Vedic mantras today? How can it be good for > > anything? > > > > > > What is the use of Vedas and Upanishads without the Agnihotram? > > > > > > With the Jnanakantam alone (without Karmakandam) can Brahmam be > > > attained? Why then the Vedic Brahmins have taken over Tantrik > > > Karmakandam? > > > > > > What made Sankaracharya to reject the Purvamimamsa in favor of > > > Uttaramimamsa? > > > > > > Beyond the twisted and stretched interpretations of the Upanishads > > at a > > > time when logic or tarkkam was taken to be a test for truth, > > Sankara > > > could manipulate people with Drshtantham. Drshtantam is not > > experience. > > > Beyond Drshtanthams what did Sankara teach for a spiritual > > experience? > > > > > > In Vivekachoodamani Sankaracharya has even decried Yoga. In Gita > > he > > > created with collaboration of his Brahminist champions wrote such > > > nonsense - humbug compilation - as no one may understand the real > > Yoga > > > under discussion. > > > > > > I will continue my discussion after seeing your answers to my > > queries. I > > > am trying to learn from you - questions are not meant to be > > offensive. > > > Just expressions of the curiosity of a chandalan. > > > > > > chandra hari > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Venkataraman Hari > > > <venkataraman_hari@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Sri Chandra Hari, > > > > > > > > Namaskaram. The Advaita Siddhantha is not mere concept; but it is > > > experiance. The people opposing Sankara says he is Maya Vadi and > > > Prachchanna Boludha. Shri Sankara never contradicted the > > experiances of > > > Bhagwan Buddha. But he proceeds further and proves the ultimate > > truth. > > > Advaita is most scientific.Highest intellectuals. great scientists, > > > thinkers have accepted it. Shri Sadasiva Brahmendra, Bhagawan Sri > > Ramana > > > Maharishi are the examples to prove that the Advita Anubhava is > > possible > > > and practicable. Advaita is a concept which is not against any > > other > > > Siddanta. It is only an advaitin who can accept all the modes of > > > worship, all the forms of worship and go beyond that and reach > > ultimate > > > Para brhmam. Along with the concept of Maya Shri Sankara also > > explains > > > the Vyavahara Sathya. That is why he established Shanmatha i.e. > > the Six > > > paths of woshipping deities. Advaita is not mere negation; it is > > > positive perfection and ultimate realisation. Shri > > > > Ramkrishna Paramahamsa was initiated in to Nirvikalpa Samadhi > > but yet > > > he was a great Upasaka of Bhavatharini. Shri Madhusudana Saraswati > > was > > > also a great Advaitin but a great Krishna Bhakta. All the forms and > > > names of different Devatas, Deities are many but ultimately they > > are all > > > of the same Para Brahman. Sri Paramahamsa even practised the > > Western > > > Religions and revealed all these paths leads to ultimate, > > > all-pervading,Supreme ParaBrahman. Bhakti, Gnana, Vairagya,Tapas, > > > Upasana ,Atma Vichara are the paths to elevate ourselves. The > > ultimate > > > truth i.e.Para Brahman- The veda says " Sa Shiva: Sa Hari: Sa > > Indra: Sa: > > > Akshara: Paramaswarat " --He is Shiva, He is Hari, He is Indra, He is > > > Akshara and He is the ultimate Power. Any amount of logic > > discussions, > > > reading, may not help us to realise the truth but an ounce of > > practice > > > is better than thousand discussions. Bhagwan says in Geetha that > > Mama > > > Maya Duratyaya/-It is dificult to conquer my Maya. Maya is a word > > not > > > invented by > > > > Sankara but it is the Illusory exhibition of the ParaBrahman > > which is > > > nothing but this Virat. Once again I wish to insist that who ever > > persue > > > a partcular path with stead fast belief and guidance of his Achrya > > or > > > Guru let them continujethe same. That need not be a discussion lin > > this > > > platform. I may be a practioner of Vedanta. Some may be of > > Devotional > > > Path. Some may follow Yoga. Our Body, Mind and intellect are > > limited. > > > All may not know everything. Before critisising the other path we > > must > > > fully know abot it. That is not possible. But Going through a > > particular > > > path and after reaching the ultimate we may realise that all are > > same > > > and being the goal is the same-Veda says Ekam Sat Vipra Bhahuda > > > Vadanthi. The same is told in the Geeta also " Yo Yo Yam Yam Tanum > > > Bhakta: Sraddharchitum Ichchati ..... " Who ever worships me in what > > ever > > > form he chooses with devotion and with steadfast determination I > > Bless > > > them in the same form I worship. > > > > Our subject isAstrology. The religion and Vedanta are very very > > deepl > > > like ocean and a subject to be practiced and not to be discussed. > > Let is > > > stick to ours. I hope that I am not mistaken. > > > > With regards, > > > > Hari Venkataraman. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > chandra_hari18 chandra_hari18@ wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Sir, > > > > > > > > Lot of dialogue has takes place on Sankara's mayavadadvaitam in > > India. > > > > Sankara reduced Darsana to philosophy in India by borrowing the > > Saiva > > > > concept of Maya and linking it up with Buddhist notions. His > > effort > > > was > > > > to defeat the Buddhas in Tarkkam. Sankara's brahmam cannot be > > > > experienced by anyone. It is like a cow of the books that cannot > > eat > > > > grass. > > > > > > > > Experience of the absolute, the only one, from which the creation > > > arose > > > > is possible only in Saiva darsanam. That is why in India from > > Kailasam > > > > to Kanyakumari only Siva and his family is worshipped. Few > > isolated > > > > Vaishnava centres are copying of Saiva with the names changed > > from > > > Siva > > > > to Krishna etc. arose in later times. > > > > > > > > Saiva darsana had its prevalence in India without any such > > gigantic > > > > Acharyas like Sankaracharya of comparatively recent times. And > > that > > > > shows its antiquity. > > > > > > > > The best way to realize the Unity of all existence is to > > chant 'namah > > > > sivaya' . > > > > > > > > chandra hari > > > > > > > > , r_vani > > ramakrishnan > > > > r_vani61@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Chandra Hariji, > > > > > Namaskar. > > > > > I am blessed to have a contact with you. > > > > > Yes, i don't disagree with you. We are two at present, myself > > and my > > > > wife, since children are at different places on their jobs. > > > > > In this old age, I am trying to find Advaitam from Dwaitam > > since all > > > > the scriptures like Vedas, Upanishads etc guide us to Advaitam. > > > > > Regards, > > > > > D.Ramakrishnan. > > > > > > > > > > chandra_hari18 chandra_hari18@ wrote: > > > > > Dear Ramkrishanji, > > > > > " You and the rest of your family " - if I have to say so at > > least 2 > > > > members must be there in your home. I hope you won't disagree. > > In the > > > > same way, when you say P_Brahmam and the rest at least two > > entities > > > must > > > > be there. So that will be called Dvaitam. > > > > > Further, Isavasyam says: Isavasyamidam sarvam = what does it > > mean? > > > Is > > > > it advaitam? Aurobindo said: Isa had a heartiest laugh when > > > > Sankaracharya wrote advatic commentary on this Upanishad. > > > > > BU's Santi vakyam says: Poornamadah poornamidam: What are > > those adah > > > > and idam? Are they not two? > > > > > chandra hari > > > > > > > > > > , r_vani > > ramakrishnan > > > > r_vani61@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Chandra Hariji, > > > > > > Namaskar. > > > > > > Parabrahmam is only one that exists. Rest all is Maya or > > Illusion. > > > > > > This is Advaitam. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > D.Ramakrishnan. > > > > > > > > > > > > chandra_hari18 chandra_hari18@ wrote: > > > > > > Parabrahmam + Maya = 1+1 = 2 or 1? Is it Advaitam or Dvaitam? > > > > > > > > > > > > chandra hari > > > > > > > > > > > > , r_vani > > > ramakrishnan > > > > > > r_vani61@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Jyothi, > > > > > > As per Advaitha Vedanta, there is only one that exists, that > > is > > > > > > Parabrahman. > > > > > > And others that we see or hear is Maya, i.e., Illusion. Even > > > though > > > > > > they appear to exist, but they are not. They are impermanent > > and > > > > perish in some time. Thats why it is said, > > > > > > Brahma satyam - Jaganmithya. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > D.Ramakrishnan. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chat on a cool, new interface. No download required. Click > > here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent from & #45; a smarter inbox. > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2007 Report Share Posted December 9, 2007 Dear Chandra hari, We can discuss this in personal mails. I dont like this moderation. I can read malayalam. But before going to the discussions, I would agree with you about Adi Sankara being attacked from all corners for his silent support of chatur varNyam. BTW, have you read his commentary on the Brahma sutras? I think It is here he clears everything. And I dont claim to be an expert, but I think I have some points to make. In case you agree, please note my mail id is saajik Best regards, Saaji Bhaskaran , " chandra_hari18 " <chandra_hari18 wrote: > > > Dear Saji Bhaskar, > > Agnihotram, Purva and Uttara mimamsas etc it is better to search and > study by yourself as I don't think it is genuine curiosity. Regarding > Sankara and Mayavadadvaitam I have spoken - my words are intended to > convey the popular perception of Sankara as the main proponent of the > school beginning with Badarayana, Gaudapada, Govinda and Sankara. > Gaudapada himself d to many Buddhist notions. > > Regarding Brahmins too - my reference is to those Brahmins who adhere to > Brahminism and Chaturvarnyam in the 1000 years that followed Sankara. > > Regarding Upanishads I have already addressed few questions. If that is > your area of expertize, you can throw some light as to which are the > Upanishads that speak of Mayavada-advaitam? How do you look at the > Samkhya if you are a follower of Mayavadadvaitam? > > And also if you so like you may clarify as to what is 'atma-maya' that > Sankara introduces at the beginning of his commentary on Bhagavad Gita? > How the Brahmam can descend to the earthly body by Atma-maya? Which > Upanishad speaks of this mechanism by which Sankara explains Krishna > avtar? > > If you can read Malayalam, I can upload a more detailed discussion. > > chandra hari > > > > > , " Saaji Bhaskaran " > <saajik@> wrote: > > > > Dear Chandra hari, > > > > Can you please tell me these: > > > > 1.what's agni hotram and how you know no one today performing agni > > hotram. > > > > 2. what's purva mimasa and uttara mimamsa. Your questions contradict. > > > > 3. you consider all Brahmins are advaidins. From what you wrote > > first about adi sankaracharya, I doubt you have read his life. Did > > you read that all Brahmins at that time are advaidins and supporters > > of adi sankaracharya? And what made you think that all Brahmins > > today are advaidins? > > > > 4. What you know abt Vedas and Upanishads in particular. " Twisted > > and stretched interpretations of Upanishads " ? Upanishads are my > > favourite subject, so I want to know about your reading of > > Upanishads. > > > > 5. I felt you are thinking Adi sankara brought in advaida > > philosophy. Where you read this? > > > > 6. " Just expressions of the curiosity of a chandalan. " – ???. I do > > not think its genuine curiosity. Anyways, please write more. > > > > 7. you know what the term " jeevan mukta " denotes? > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > Best regards, > > > > Saaji Bhaskaran > > > > > > > > , " chandra_hari18 " > > chandra_hari18@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > Dear Sir, > > > > > > After completing the prasthana-traya bhashya only Sankaracharya > > roamed > > > Kasi and then the legends say that the Chandala appeared and > > became his > > > Guru. I worship that Chandala and his darsana is Sivaadvaitam. > > > Maneesha-panchakam was wrote in praise of the Chandala. > > > > > > If Sankara's mayadvaitam had any spiritual contribution in India > > beyond > > > lip service, how is it that castiesm got perpetuated in India and > > became > > > the cornerstone of Brahmnism? What kind of Advaitic experience did > > the 4 > > > Maths of Sankara represented during the 1000 years after Sankara? > > > > > > Even today what kind of Advaitic experience guide the 4 Maths of > > > Sankaracharya where succession is decided by the caste of the Yoni? > > > > > > In contrast why the Saiva_Siddhas like 64 Nayanars despised > > casteism and > > > how even pulaya, panan and paraya could become Siddhas in > > Tamizhakam and > > > Kerala? > > > > > > Why did the Brahmins approach Sri Narayana Guru with protest when > > Guru > > > installed Siva at Aruvippuram? > > > > > > Why the Brahmins doing 'Aham Brahmasmi' lip service have become > > Tantris > > > to Lingam, Yoni and Sarpam? > > > > > > Which Veda or Upanishad / Sruti and Smrtis call for or authorize > > such > > > practices by Aham-Brahmasmis? > > > > > > In which Veda can you find the word 'Puja' that is central to the > > Hindu > > > spirituality? > > > > > > Why the agnihotram perished and Lingam and Yoni came to be the > > objects > > > of worships by Brahmins? > > > > > > When Agnihotram perished how the Vedic Gods like Indra, Agni, > > Maruts etc > > > can survive today? If the Gods also perished along with the > > Agnihotram > > > what is the use of Vedic mantras today? How can it be good for > > anything? > > > > > > What is the use of Vedas and Upanishads without the Agnihotram? > > > > > > With the Jnanakantam alone (without Karmakandam) can Brahmam be > > > attained? Why then the Vedic Brahmins have taken over Tantrik > > > Karmakandam? > > > > > > What made Sankaracharya to reject the Purvamimamsa in favor of > > > Uttaramimamsa? > > > > > > Beyond the twisted and stretched interpretations of the Upanishads > > at a > > > time when logic or tarkkam was taken to be a test for truth, > > Sankara > > > could manipulate people with Drshtantham. Drshtantam is not > > experience. > > > Beyond Drshtanthams what did Sankara teach for a spiritual > > experience? > > > > > > In Vivekachoodamani Sankaracharya has even decried Yoga. In Gita > > he > > > created with collaboration of his Brahminist champions wrote such > > > nonsense - humbug compilation - as no one may understand the real > > Yoga > > > under discussion. > > > > > > I will continue my discussion after seeing your answers to my > > queries. I > > > am trying to learn from you - questions are not meant to be > > offensive. > > > Just expressions of the curiosity of a chandalan. > > > > > > chandra hari > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Venkataraman Hari > > > <venkataraman_hari@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Sri Chandra Hari, > > > > > > > > Namaskaram. The Advaita Siddhantha is not mere concept; but it is > > > experiance. The people opposing Sankara says he is Maya Vadi and > > > Prachchanna Boludha. Shri Sankara never contradicted the > > experiances of > > > Bhagwan Buddha. But he proceeds further and proves the ultimate > > truth. > > > Advaita is most scientific.Highest intellectuals. great scientists, > > > thinkers have accepted it. Shri Sadasiva Brahmendra, Bhagawan Sri > > Ramana > > > Maharishi are the examples to prove that the Advita Anubhava is > > possible > > > and practicable. Advaita is a concept which is not against any > > other > > > Siddanta. It is only an advaitin who can accept all the modes of > > > worship, all the forms of worship and go beyond that and reach > > ultimate > > > Para brhmam. Along with the concept of Maya Shri Sankara also > > explains > > > the Vyavahara Sathya. That is why he established Shanmatha i.e. > > the Six > > > paths of woshipping deities. Advaita is not mere negation; it is > > > positive perfection and ultimate realisation. Shri > > > > Ramkrishna Paramahamsa was initiated in to Nirvikalpa Samadhi > > but yet > > > he was a great Upasaka of Bhavatharini. Shri Madhusudana Saraswati > > was > > > also a great Advaitin but a great Krishna Bhakta. All the forms and > > > names of different Devatas, Deities are many but ultimately they > > are all > > > of the same Para Brahman. Sri Paramahamsa even practised the > > Western > > > Religions and revealed all these paths leads to ultimate, > > > all-pervading,Supreme ParaBrahman. Bhakti, Gnana, Vairagya,Tapas, > > > Upasana ,Atma Vichara are the paths to elevate ourselves. The > > ultimate > > > truth i.e.Para Brahman- The veda says " Sa Shiva: Sa Hari: Sa > > Indra: Sa: > > > Akshara: Paramaswarat " --He is Shiva, He is Hari, He is Indra, He is > > > Akshara and He is the ultimate Power. Any amount of logic > > discussions, > > > reading, may not help us to realise the truth but an ounce of > > practice > > > is better than thousand discussions. Bhagwan says in Geetha that > > Mama > > > Maya Duratyaya/-It is dificult to conquer my Maya. Maya is a word > > not > > > invented by > > > > Sankara but it is the Illusory exhibition of the ParaBrahman > > which is > > > nothing but this Virat. Once again I wish to insist that who ever > > persue > > > a partcular path with stead fast belief and guidance of his Achrya > > or > > > Guru let them continujethe same. That need not be a discussion lin > > this > > > platform. I may be a practioner of Vedanta. Some may be of > > Devotional > > > Path. Some may follow Yoga. Our Body, Mind and intellect are > > limited. > > > All may not know everything. Before critisising the other path we > > must > > > fully know abot it. That is not possible. But Going through a > > particular > > > path and after reaching the ultimate we may realise that all are > > same > > > and being the goal is the same-Veda says Ekam Sat Vipra Bhahuda > > > Vadanthi. The same is told in the Geeta also " Yo Yo Yam Yam Tanum > > > Bhakta: Sraddharchitum Ichchati ..... " Who ever worships me in what > > ever > > > form he chooses with devotion and with steadfast determination I > > Bless > > > them in the same form I worship. > > > > Our subject isAstrology. The religion and Vedanta are very very > > deepl > > > like ocean and a subject to be practiced and not to be discussed. > > Let is > > > stick to ours. I hope that I am not mistaken. > > > > With regards, > > > > Hari Venkataraman. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > chandra_hari18 chandra_hari18@ wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Sir, > > > > > > > > Lot of dialogue has takes place on Sankara's mayavadadvaitam in > > India. > > > > Sankara reduced Darsana to philosophy in India by borrowing the > > Saiva > > > > concept of Maya and linking it up with Buddhist notions. His > > effort > > > was > > > > to defeat the Buddhas in Tarkkam. Sankara's brahmam cannot be > > > > experienced by anyone. It is like a cow of the books that cannot > > eat > > > > grass. > > > > > > > > Experience of the absolute, the only one, from which the creation > > > arose > > > > is possible only in Saiva darsanam. That is why in India from > > Kailasam > > > > to Kanyakumari only Siva and his family is worshipped. Few > > isolated > > > > Vaishnava centres are copying of Saiva with the names changed > > from > > > Siva > > > > to Krishna etc. arose in later times. > > > > > > > > Saiva darsana had its prevalence in India without any such > > gigantic > > > > Acharyas like Sankaracharya of comparatively recent times. And > > that > > > > shows its antiquity. > > > > > > > > The best way to realize the Unity of all existence is to > > chant 'namah > > > > sivaya' . > > > > > > > > chandra hari > > > > > > > > , r_vani > > ramakrishnan > > > > r_vani61@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Chandra Hariji, > > > > > Namaskar. > > > > > I am blessed to have a contact with you. > > > > > Yes, i don't disagree with you. We are two at present, myself > > and my > > > > wife, since children are at different places on their jobs. > > > > > In this old age, I am trying to find Advaitam from Dwaitam > > since all > > > > the scriptures like Vedas, Upanishads etc guide us to Advaitam. > > > > > Regards, > > > > > D.Ramakrishnan. > > > > > > > > > > chandra_hari18 chandra_hari18@ wrote: > > > > > Dear Ramkrishanji, > > > > > " You and the rest of your family " - if I have to say so at > > least 2 > > > > members must be there in your home. I hope you won't disagree. > > In the > > > > same way, when you say P_Brahmam and the rest at least two > > entities > > > must > > > > be there. So that will be called Dvaitam. > > > > > Further, Isavasyam says: Isavasyamidam sarvam = what does it > > mean? > > > Is > > > > it advaitam? Aurobindo said: Isa had a heartiest laugh when > > > > Sankaracharya wrote advatic commentary on this Upanishad. > > > > > BU's Santi vakyam says: Poornamadah poornamidam: What are > > those adah > > > > and idam? Are they not two? > > > > > chandra hari > > > > > > > > > > , r_vani > > ramakrishnan > > > > r_vani61@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Chandra Hariji, > > > > > > Namaskar. > > > > > > Parabrahmam is only one that exists. Rest all is Maya or > > Illusion. > > > > > > This is Advaitam. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > D.Ramakrishnan. > > > > > > > > > > > > chandra_hari18 chandra_hari18@ wrote: > > > > > > Parabrahmam + Maya = 1+1 = 2 or 1? Is it Advaitam or Dvaitam? > > > > > > > > > > > > chandra hari > > > > > > > > > > > > , r_vani > > > ramakrishnan > > > > > > r_vani61@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Jyothi, > > > > > > As per Advaitha Vedanta, there is only one that exists, that > > is > > > > > > Parabrahman. > > > > > > And others that we see or hear is Maya, i.e., Illusion. Even > > > though > > > > > > they appear to exist, but they are not. They are impermanent > > and > > > > perish in some time. Thats why it is said, > > > > > > Brahma satyam - Jaganmithya. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > D.Ramakrishnan. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chat on a cool, new interface. No download required. Click > > here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent from & #45; a smarter inbox. > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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